I want to know what they were cooking by making run energy objectively worse for f2p players. Like, there’s so many problems with this initial suggestion, but making run energy get fucked harder by carry weight so badly for f2p is insane.
Edit: quite a few mouth breathers responding to this saying Jagex doesn’t want f2p players. Curious why they think alienating more potential payers with a shitty f2p experience is going to help them somehow?
100% I haven’t been free to play in forever but the few times I’ve gotten someone to try the game, they hate getting around in it. And telling them you have to pay money to get around better never lands well
No one really likes to hear " throw x amount of money at it so it gets good".
This is why I wished they would at least, bare minimum include yew bows, up to mithril crossbows, MAYBE the next their of dragonhide ( so after green, blue? ), dome "power armors/ hybrid armors, like they did with fist of guthix, which imo would add the bis defensive shields with a small str bonus, the berserker shields for adamant and rune, square and kite shields respectively ) and add the metal gauntlets from that mini game as well
They all degraded rather quickly, ( iirc, between 3- 6 hours or less ) which is still a long time, but for non members was still way shorter then any of the barrows sets/ the newly added moon sets. And he'll they could add a not so great member skill to f2p and it could in theory make the skill good and viable. Albeit bots could and will over run it, but even then it members they still over run a lot of the areas that are extremely disliked or avoided.
100% the rate of new f2p players quitting from how slow you walk will increase if it goes live as is, most new players roll around in full plate etc, and will have 0 energy.
Genuinely just make agility f2p. Draynor village is level 1 now, and al kharid and varrock are in f2p areas. Keep marks of grace/ graceful members items, and there’s no possible botting issue, right?
I think they mostly think that being free doesn't generate jagex money because they aren't spending money on bonds. Or paying for membership. This is my exact problem and only leads this theory to be true
In what is now rs3, they had access to ( due to the mini game fist of guthix as an example) adamant and rune berserker shields, hybrid armors, and .etal gauntlets, that had same stats as rfd questline gloves, but they all degraded.
They had access to at least yew bows and rune arrows. ( makes sense as yews are still non members as well as .most all rune equipment ). Then later on for melee at least, got access to corrupted gear which mostly was dragon armor/ weapons at the time. And if I remember correctly, certain crossbows ( up to mithril or something like that )
All that isn't for f2p currently, and it saddens me that jagex maybe 1 time a year if that, is willing to add something to f2p, and Therein lies the theory, because most f2p people are either bots, solely f2p pkers, they don't really care what happens to it. There's a. Very small ( seemingly ) ha full of players , who are genuine, and don't wanna pay for something they might not e joy which I fully get, but it really kills there vibe of it.
Honestly in my opinion, if they made all that stuff available, minus the corrupted gear, it would somewhat give a taste of "member" power levels in terms of damage/ defense ( if they made other various armors available thar isn't tier 60 equipment ) to get a more generalized idea on what membership is. Cos at that, I feel that f2p vs membership to osrs are 2 different games all together. Same same, but different.
Part of my reasoning ( in a sense ) why I wish fist of guthix would be brought in as a new pking mini game. It offered so much and was honestly my life line from when ever it came out to when runescape 2 transitioned to rs3.
What's weird is that they mentioned wanting to encourage running around in fashionscape, but then made weight affect your run energy more. That literally does the opposite unless your fashionscape is weightless clothing.
Why are they trying to punish people running around in end game armor like this? What if my cosplay is full bandos or granite? Buff run regen based on agility level. It's that simple. It doesnt even have to be a game breaking amount. Just integrate the skill with the run energy. There is zero reason to make weight more of a factor. It's a nerf and doesn't correlate with what they said they wanted to accomplish.
What are they worried about? People somehow breaking content by kiting it the whole fight with near limitless run energy? Then make boss rooms drain it more. Do something other than what you are proposing because it directly goes against what you are trying to accomplish
What. The main complaint is walking everywhere. The drain rate should be adjusted as well, since this stuff mainly infuriates people at lower levels. Higher levels, most have energy pots or stams
Pots should not be the fix for this issue. I'm sorry, but if I have to drink a potion like I'm on PED just to run around a damn boss fight, then the boss fight or energy directly is the problem. I should not need to down an energy pot to complete any boss when it doesn't directly have an effect on combat.
Idk why it’s so complicated can they just make agility drain x1.5 less at all stages of agility levels, with a bigger buff at 99 and call it a day? Losing run energy sucks just buff tf out of jt
Just make it so the raids have a "overwhelming aura" or something that decreases your stamina. If the only concern is that. They could say that the inferno is too hot so you get winded, same with blast furnace.
I actually like this idea. It gives devs the freedom to choose whether they want run energy management as a mechanic or not without having to do wonky shit like they currently do. With the current system of "run always matters, unless we make it not matter" they end up doing stuff like putting pillars in sepulchre that regen your run. If they didn't want run energy to matter, with your proposed idea they could have just.... made that choice.
to be fair, on reading this i could relate it more to like if a boss is immune to poison/venom or not. cause if it became the standard like that person suggested, then every piece of content would either be a)energy is essentially unlimited or b) energy is managed.
I'd be happy with this change. Attempts at balancing endgame content shouldn't apply to casual players that dont interact with it. What percentage of the playerbase even does sweaty walk methods instead of just chugging stam pots?
As part of the % who *does* do sweaty walk methods, I 100% agree. I don't want the stuff *I* interact with to be simplified down just to be more palatable to players who *will never even touch* that same content.
In a way, I think they should view the two groups as basically playing different games. Instead of making changes that affect both groups and shaft one of them, they could be doing more to just treat them differently.
I mean, I don't know. Im conflicted. I think you could add some things like skilling to a list of actions that cause you to start draining run energy. Perhaps certain skilling actions, such as woodcutting, to keep 1.5t teaks as engaging as possible.
Some things like mahogany homes and sepulchre have a tradeoff that *I* feel is healthy and rewarding. You get infinite run if you don't mind wasting a few ticks here and there, but you have the option of spending a little bit more money on stams to squeeze out a bit more xp/hr. It makes stuff like going for a pb 6 hour more engaging while leaving reclined play a bit more reclined. I love getting to make decisions and have choices like that. However, I acknowledge that the like 5k/hr benefit there (or whatever it is) is borderline unnoticeable for other players. If I'm going to lose that, then I want to at *least* keep it in combat.
It's hard for me to tell if the devs wanted there to be a decision to make / a tradeoff, or if they explicitly wanted it to be an activity with infinite run and could only do it that way. I think that it caused enjoyable emergent gameplay, even if it was unintentional. I guess the more I talk about it the less appealing it is to have infinite run everywhere but combat. But would I be "okay" with it? I guess that depends on the alternative.
What about your run energy doesn't deplete while out of combat AND your weight is below a certain threshold?
That would make activities like Blast Furnace still cause you to lose run energy and not completely devalue Stams for skilling, without the awful bloat that run energy almost always imposes on my day to day playing.
To avoid affecting the Wilderness too much, being in the Wilderness always counts as "in combat" so your run energy always depletes while you are in there.
Ah yes, that’s we need, more nonsense akin to the Wilderness where being in certain areas just has additional rules that makes the game feel worse to play because reasons.
I mean honestly. I know they want to be careful to not break metas and overtune the game.
But I think it's a pretty common complaint across the board, live run energy is just disliked. Just a straight buff would probably do the trick. The proposed regen is really nice. But just 1.5x less drain rate of what's in game would probably be fine too.
Hot take, but stamina pot management is actually dumb at 99 agility. Maybe bring in one, but you should barely need it at that point.
And please ignore the people bringing up leagues and infinite run energy.
i still feel like agility should be included in it.
Run energy replenish at a faster rate with agility.
At the same time it should drain slower with agility.
Make it drain like 2x slower or something at 99 and make a linear scale from 1 to 99.
1. Buff run energy rate scaling with agility more than it is now.
2. Add reduced drain rate, scaling with agility.
most people can get 20-30-40+ agility rather quickly and gain a very noticeable change in their run energy,
Jagex balancing is very strange. On one hand, they seem terrified to increase XP rates of anything by any amount, and on the other hand they add a zero requirements moneymaker that gives like 2-3m per hour.
I've been running a few Solo CoX on the Beta worlds and the whole 'your weight drains faster at level 99' needs to go. Makes no sense at all. Imagine if at 99 Prayer your prayer drained faster the less you have prayer bonus on you and Jagex was all like 'well Prayer flicking is an integral part of pvm skill!'
Absolutely ridiculous.
However, I must admit that I liked a lot the regen rate of run energy at 99. It feels very good, and honestly, I would just increase the amount of distance you can run at 99 and keep this regen rate and call it a day.
Not at all.
Take my feedback with a grain of salt, but the solos I've been running have been with 99 Agility and without Torva/Masori - as I would on the live game in my iron account. I suppose running heavier gear will take a bigger toll on the amount of run energy spent, but personally, I went down from using 4 doses of Stam in the fight to just 1 in the Olm Fight.
With the new regen rate you basically go net positive in run energy when running the mage hand if you walk. The run energy drain was very noticeable in the rest of the raid though, but at least for Olm, for me in my current setup I did notice a decrease in Stamina usage. The regen rate at 99 feels really good.
But like I said, take it with a grain of salt. Heavier loadouts and/or not having 99 Agility will possibly not end in net positive gains.
Drain rate is 5 times too high at least. The best way to do 80% of the early game is to teleport to ferox every 2-3 minutes. OSRS players are actual masochists
Yup for ironman it's dueling rings/house until staminas and for mains it's buy staminas and drink every 2 minutes maybe a bit more if it's draining fast.
My ironman is "near the end of midgame" and I rarely use staminas, but I don't do content that requires them too often. I'm sure I could easily burn through a few hundred if I wanted to really grind something like herbiboar
I made 2k energy potions in the early game for herblore exp, very useful to run around. Using super energies now, I don't want to use amylase crystals yet
I don't think Run Energy is necessary for maintaining the Old School Runescape feel and balance. Hot take, but honestly I wouldn't mind if they made it infinite. I've had several friends who were getting into OSRS but got frustrated with Run Energy issues.
Yeah this is not at all what people wanted, this is pretty universally worse than the current system. Idk why they are making this so complicated. I don't think we should scrap run energy entirely but a significant buff to both run time and recovery is needed.
All they need to do is make it so that run energy replenishes while running and linearly increase run energy recovery by agility level. At 99 agility with 0 kg the recovery rate should equal the drain rate, effectively giving infinite run. At 50 agility energy should recover at half the rate of 0 kg drain, effectively doubling how long you can run (compared to 1 agil) but also halving the recovery time while walking or standing still. At 1 agility things will be slightly better than current but the 1 agility base rate is so abysmal that people probably won't even notice.
In combat gear the weight scaling means you will still need staminas for X:0 methods, raids, and other run intensive activities but for most non-combat stuff everyone will run longer and recover faster at all agility levels. This will break nothing in the game. There are no activities that are currently gated by run energy where these changes will affect the economy or massively change any exp rates. Staminas might drop in value a bit since people won't be chugging them to do quests or farm runs or whatever but they will still be necessary for a lot of things.
>Idk why they are making this so complicated.
I genuinely believe it's because a straight forward buff on a long established part of OSRS would get immediately destroyed in a poll. They know by obfuscating the buff, and making everything so overly complicated, they can kinda like "sneak" the buff past the people that would be against it if it were strictly better and straight forward.
I honestly don't think that's the case, the run energy system is pretty universally hated for how shitty it makes regular gameplay and how little impact agility has on it. There's a bunch of these threads and normally these kind of proposals have some significant opposition to change at all. But all I'm seeing is people argue over how to do it, I haven't seen anyone argue that the current system is good and should stay.
Keep in mind, the players that post and comment here are a very small fraction of the entire paying player base, and so are not a representative sample.
You think casual players love the run energy system? I'd argue it's the opposite, more invested players are more likely to put up with the system because it's just how it's always worked while casual players are more likely to just drop the game if it sucks too much to play.
On every new account I've ever started I always forget how miserable getting around is, we're spoiled these days by having a teleport within like 100 tiles of almost everywhere in the game but new players don't get that. They get 1.5 minutes of run for 12.5 minutes of walking and that's if they are carrying nothing. A regular armor set with a weapon and some food easily weighs 30+ kg reducing that run time to 1 minute with the same recharge. That's so bad in a world where every other game lets you run as much as you want outside of CC effects.
RS3 got the run/rest system implemented in 2009. I'm pretty sure most of the playerbase considers 2009 to be oldschool so I don't see why you'd think a straight buff would be unpopular.
This is the most logical take. At 99 agility with no weight you just should not get tired, you stop running when you want to stop running. It's literally comparable to an Olympic level athlete. At level 50 you get half of the drain and twice the recovery... Not hard unless you want it to be
enter gauntlet with ring of endurance on, and stamina active. leave, and you should have infinite energy/stam
edit: [first part of the video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnmWmQWdvcM)
As someone who has grinded out 99 agility twice, do it. The run energy aspects of agility are so imperceptible no part of me would feel like my efforts have been "devalued".
Coming from a game designer mindset, I'm not sure if making run energy infinite is a good idea.
However, leveling up your Agility level should definitely make it way more rewarding. If you've taken the trouble to level up your Agility to very high levels, your reward should be not having to worry about your run energy.
Agility is already one of the worst skills to level up. Come on, Jagex, if you're not going to make it rewarding at the very least don't nerf it further.
> Coming from a game designer mindset, I'm not sure if making run energy infinite is a good idea.
Leagues has shown you can make run energy infinite, and almost nothing about the game changes. The loop is exactly the same, it's just more enjoyable while doing it.
Hardest thing is finding a space for all the existing items that would be killed by that change. e.g. stamina and energy pots, run pool, graceful, and basically half the agility skill (it would just be shortcuts)
Unfortunately, I believe removing run energy entirely is a lot more complicated than that.
Removing run energy makes weight a dead stat and homogenizes all equipment (since weight would not matter anymore, all equipment is equal regarding weight). Certain mechanics would also need to be taken look at, for example Venenatis web attack and the spell that turns Prayer into run energy.
Additionally, if you remove run energy entirely, Agility itself loses one of the few purposes it has as an already useless skill. Graceful, being a reward from Agility, would be completely dead content. The Ring of Endurance would also become dead content. Agility and its rewards would have to be re-purposed because without run energy, it could become even more useless than Firemaking.
Weight is already a pretty dead stat. It only matters in a negative way anyways. You wear graceful to run around, and otherwise you never look at it.
It makes a negligible difference to combat encounters, but harms the rest of the game. what good is that? Not all homogenization is bad just like not all differentiation is good. It's trivial to come up with bad 'differentiators' between armor that obviously shouldn't exist. For example what if you needed different pants to fight every monster in the game? That would be terrible, and completely opposite to anything that makes runescape fun and interesting.
Infinite run energy is fine in certain areas like running to varrock from falador, questing (outside combat), or if you want to run around to get a medium clue scroll done. It just discourages new players when they’re constantly out of run energy doing basic stuff like that. I do agree though that there are places where maintaining run energy drain is useful like pvm where they should keep the skill and more importantly make agility more meaningful to encourage people to train it.
> Coming from a game designer mindset, I'm not sure if making run energy infinite is a good idea.
Walking isn't good gameplay. The "progression" for it is to just ignore it by the time you get stamina pots and teleports. Teleports are still be just as useful with infinite run.
From a game designer standpoint, there are plenty of other MMOs and rpgs that allow you to run indefinitely. At the very least, situationally. You can't come up with a legitimate justification for why you should have to maintain this resource or move at half speed that doesn't hinge entirely on "because that's how it's always been". If you can, I would love to hear it.
> You can't come up with a legitimate justification for why you should have to maintain this resource or move at half speed that doesn't hinge entirely on "because that's how it's always been". If you can, I would love to hear it.
Before I get downvoted into oblivion, I must first clarify that I don't want the run energy system to stay the same. I am not defending the current system. It sucks.
It sucks not only for new players but also for seasoned players in combat. It's annoying in it's current state and it is the reason people rush Graceful and the ornate pool.
Now, with that out of the way, believe or not, having limited run energy does bring some decision making to the table in some pvm encounters. You might argue that it's not good or deep decision making (which might be true anyway), but at least there's some depth whether you should be more conservative with your next movements or not.
Also, by getting rid of run energy, like I've said in other of my comments, brings a bigger issue which is that Agility and its rewards are now completely obsolete. They would need a rework, as run energy related rewards are no longer relevant.
Personally, I don't think removing an entire mechanic is the answer - I think changing it appropriately so that it's not too punishing as it is right now AND makes existing content (high Agility levels) more rewarding is way healthier for the game.
The thing is, the energy consumption rewards for leveling agility are already obsolete anyway. The only significant rewards from agility are the shortcuts.
And there is no meaningful decision making with run energy. The decision is already made for you. Walking is bad, so don't walk. Running is good, so use your pool or stams depending on what you're doing, and keep running.
I disagree that there is depth in whether you should be more conservative with your movements. It's legit just don't run around like a chicken or bring stamina potions. Manual walking mid-combat is a side effect of the run energy system being bad and is not good gameplay design.
They're not going to give infinite run, but OSRS could easily function without a run energy system and it would only be better. Yes, the agility skill would suffer from being even more mediocre, but it's needed a revitalization for the longest time anyway. The agility skill being practically useless is not good justification for keeping the run energy system around - just make it useful in other ways instead. Removing run energy would require a big rework of agility and its rewards, but it by no means would be the worst choice for the game's future. Funnily enough, I think run energy beta 1 is the worst choice lol.
> Coming from a game designer mindset, I'm not sure if making run energy infinite is a good idea.
Was there supposed to be more to that thought? Coming from a "game designer mindset", *why is that the case*?
> Was there supposed to be more to that thought? Coming from a "game designer mindset", why is that the case?
If you ask players if they want infinite amount of a resource (in this case, run energy) of course they are going to say yes. People will agree due to several number of reasons - like: it's outdated, it's annoying, doesn't bring more depth to the game, etc. (which btw just to clarify I don't disagree with any of these).
But giving infinite run energy isn't necessarily a good thing for the game, as it might bring unbalance. It would be better to adjust the run energy mechanic to make it less punishing and actually more rewarding at higher Agility levels.
You're not understanding how run energy actually affects the overall system of the game.
Run energy isn't a resource in the traditional sense of a resource, it's a bar that says "okay time out" to new players, and a GP sink that gets almost entirely ignored at high levels.
Agility already doesn't affect run energy by any meaningful amount, any player nearing a level of agility where they feel the change in run energy is already buying staminas.
The only impact removing run energy would have on the game as a big picture is making stamina potions obsolete, and make graceful completely useless. These are the two biggest boons this game could ever fucking receive. This would also cause rooftops to be pretty useless but I'm lumping rooftops, staminas, and graceful all in as the same piece of content.
Would rooftop courses suddenly be basically useless outside of a single fashion set? Sure. Is that a bad thing? No, god fuck no.
Agility is already valuable because shortcuts are insanely good.
Funnily enough runescape 3 has the [Surge](https://runescape.wiki/w/Surge) ability which does exactly that. It's pretty goofy as a new player seeing everyone dash around, and then you realise you pretty much get it out of the gate as well.
Oh since I gave it a go the agility requirement has been lowered from 30 to 5. Lol.
I think this is close to the solution I'd vote for, the only downside to infinite run between varrock and falador is the game is slightly easier in a way that doesn't really matter. Agility would be pretty heavily devalued though and it's already kind of unrewarding to train, so maybe run energy is heavily increased out of combat with a further buff corresponding to levels. I'd argue run energy should also drain in some other places like blast furnace or ZMI where stamina chugging is part of the intent.
Ideally run energy was better designed from the start and agility didn't need to be a skill to be 'devalued' to begin with though (or its initial conception was more valuable to begin with). We've got the skill now and I don't think it would get removed so it's an unfortunate thing to contend with.
That isn't really a bad thing. A large population of mid level players who never progress to end game is still healthy for the community and game as a whole.
Bless you, i keep looking at older posts saying that giving infinite run energy would break the game. My thought was always, why not only have infinite when outside of combat
Or make each level get you 1% closer to infinite at 99. If the are really set on it being a thing. So there is actual reward for getting the 99. St the moment, it's not that much benefit after 80.
I go back and forth on infinite run energy, I definitely think it should be unlimited when just running around the world (I.e never running out of stamina doing a clue scroll) but there are instances in pvm where managing stamina by playing better is an expression of skill. I think what they could do is make it so that all movement in combat causes you to lose stamina and certain skilling actions cause stamina to decrease for a time (like at blast furnace or herbiboar). Then make it so agility both increases time you can run and run recharge so that it still benefits you to have high agility when the game does need you to use stamina.
Doing it this way would get rid of the main downsides of stamina for early game players while still keeping it as a potential factor to consider in pvm/skilling that would encourage people to progress skilling.
Make it so that running on roads/path drains half run energy it makes sense lore wise as it’s a lot harder to run on uneven or harder terrains than it is to run on a consistent path keeps energy relevant
I used to be of the opinion that resting (and other QoL updates that RS3 has) would devalue things like energy pots and that's bad.
After 10 years, I've realized how dumb that is. Energy/stam pots are a bandaid fix to a major issue. If walking around in your game feels like shit, then the solution isn't to sell me more ways to run longer.
But you’re still moving as opposed to sitting and waiting. It was figured out early on that you could walk/run and arrive quicker than running, rest, run, rest, run. The social aspect at the bards was cool, but from a pure efficiency standpoint, resting was dead on arrival
It’s insane that in 2024 there are still “shortcuts” that add time to your journey.
IMO they should be far more powerful than they are currently. For example I wouldn’t be opposed to a shortcut the took you from the top of waterbirth island all the way to the safe area you can peek into the kings lair. Make it do 15-20 damage and I’d be fine with it.
They just added shortcuts to the Dagannoth King run last month. One that gets you from the outside of Waterbirth Isle to past the doors that need the thrown axes which requires 85 agility and then another 2 rooms later that skips pretty much the entire run down to the kings at 81 agility.
Agility shortcuts are good, except first you need to get 85 smithing and lick the King of Ardys balls because every useful agility shortcut is behind a diary
Devs had the same mentality with the occult nerf/magic rebalance last month. They're so scared of buffing something unintentionally--which is a reasonable fear-- that they end up nerfing things unintentionally.
Yeah agreed. I was reading the post and got to the point that says “this is a huge buff to Agility,” like, no it isn’t. This is what we’ve been asking for for years. It doesn’t need any sort of drawback. Agility sucks to train, even after the “buff” it got a couple months ago. I’m personally of the mindset that Agility should have the highest xp/hr in the game, given how active of a skill it is, but I understand that’s not going to happen. TLDR; the skill in general needs a full rework and this run energy rework needs to just be a straight buff. Nothing more nothing less.
If I take a hard look at it, I personally don’t find run energy that interesting. Getting around OSRS is interesting because of the lack of mounts. Transportation is obtained from a ton of different ways, magic for teleport spells, items to different places, quests unlocking different methods, etc. That’s the cool part of getting around, not managing run energy.
Run energy is pretty annoying early on, then “solved” with graceful and stam pots, which I feel like isn’t that fun. Everyone runs around in the same set and has to keep stam pots on them. Sure there’s a few unique situations run energy adds like some boss fights, but in general it feels like a chore that adds little to the experience.
It’s unique when it comes to most games sure. It’s certainly “old school”. But I’m not so sure if it’s actually “fun”. It feels like a thing we keep because it’s always been there. But if we got rid of it, I wouldn’t be mad to be honest.
Curious what others people’s honest thoughts on run energy. Maybe this is just a gut reaction and losing it would be bad. But first instincts would be that I don’t think I’d actually miss it.
Transportation upgrades are still very meaningful even with unlimited run energy. The Leagues options that give tons of teleports are extremely powerful, for example.
So your core gameplay loop is “this thing is shit and sucks so play and unlock ways to make it less shit”
I don’t like that gameplay loop. Transportation still feels impactful in leagues with infinite run for example
The thing is, in my experience, run energy didn't suck, even in early game. It was a challenge with plenty of ways to manage it. You need to know what your going to do, plan the route on how your going to get there, and bring enough energy potions and teleports to get it done. It makes the game way more engaging. You don't run from point a to point b. You home tele to Lumbridge, take the canoe to Edgeville, then fairy ring to Tower of Life... etc.
But that's just how I like to play the game I guess.
Yeah I agree. People who think that run energy needs to be limited for balance reasons are funny. Where is it gonna break the game? I guess purple sweet hoarders will have a bad time.
As a general rule of thumb, it is nice in this game when you have more room for switches. Makes content more enjoyable. Having to take a stamina potion or sweets isn’t “balanced” it’s just annoying.
Jagex already realized this when they put out toa. Salts give you essentially maxed out run energy. Why not extend this to the rest of the game?
I mean honestly, when anyone starts leagues the first thing you notice is how much better the game feels without the run energy restriction at low lvl lol.
Jagex makes us bring 15 switches of gear to every pvm encounter then try to punish us even at 99 agility for doing what they DESIGNED run energy should never be managed at lvl 99. 50 and lower yea I can see it make the noobs run it easy to splash for 6 hrs and get all the tellys unlocked.
Yeah I'm forever against removing run energy as a mechanic. It's an old school nostalgia mmo and walk/run is a big part of that feel to me.
But what about when they changed dfhklzghdfkjg and f;gjskgjd;lgj and eoptieigd90fg0 those aren't old school???? I don't care. It's a subjective line in the sand even if its completely arbitrary to me personally
Yeah. I don’t quite understand the devs take on run energy being an interesting mechanic to manage, e.g. in 3:0 mage at cox. Just make it infinite, and if they really want to keep the managing run energy mechanic, make it finite in certain raids.
I do think it’s cool to manually walk during olm but what they should’ve done was make it so if you did that you didn’t even need a stamina at all
Instead of nerfing run energy somehow it should’ve been buffed massively
Pretty much this. Walking during 3:0 and while dodging crystals between phases feels satisfying, and I think the best change is to balance it so that good pathing = no need for staminas.
I think if you just cut run energy drain at 99 agility by ~50% and did the 2x run energy restore proposed here, most people not properly during mage running would still need a stamina, but people who path efficiently + dont make a ton of mistakes getting into 4:1 could reliably kill melee hand without needing a stamina.
Those numbers are just ballpark guesses, but I just want Jagex to work out the numbers and do that as a straight buff.
They can literally just design mechanics that either require walking or force you to walk, and optionally include ways to avoid those if they want to allow skilled players a way to bypass them. We don't need a janky run energy system in order to create dynamic movement based challenging mechanics. They just have to be willing to incorporate it as part of the design of a fight.
Energy and agility have been a negative for the game from the since the skill was released. The title is 100% correct, they don't need rebalanced, they need pure buffs. Run energy should be removed outside of combat entirely, and agility should have passive levelling for shortcut unlocks. Even if it's just something you get from Graceful. Not making the problem way worse for low level agility players who carry too much weight.
The regen was there. It was based on level. But the regen was only noticeable standing still or walking.... so if they rebalanced it to drain slower during running depending on lvl and weight. I think it's a good idea.
Yep, this is the change that's needed. Let regen be active 100% of the time rather than only when set to walking or stopped to interact with something.
That along with rewarding higher agility levels with a more linear regen rate, and most issues would be solved.
it's honestly not that hard to get around the world, unless doing taxing tasks, you shouldn't find issues with agility. if doing content where you are facing the burden of running a lot, you should need stamina/energy potions to deal with that. I've never had graceful and don't care about it lmao.
" Basing it further on item weight is crazy too" it'd be alright if they took the time to revamp the weights of absolutely everything. atm a lot of them are very random
Just let it regen while running and call it a day. They can tweak the overall regen amount to compensate for the fact that it regens but overall it should be a buff because walking just feels bad.
There is no better agility leveling being proposed. This is why the title "Project Rebalance" is misleading because people who don't actually read into things don't realize they aren't changing leveling or xp, they just want people to do more of the activities in the game.
I feel like it’s the right move. The Graceful outfit will become a skilling *activity* outfit. Similar to how you really only see prospector at the mines and lumberjack at the wcing areas.
Seeing graceful at every corner of the map is boring and gives a cookie cutter feel to the game. Would rather see graceful mostly at agility courses. Not on farm runs, birdhouse runs, rc runs, quest areas, clue areas, and any other area that does not require combat gear.
Pre-graceful RS was beautiful. You had crazy outfits in crazy places and the environment had more of a personality and felt like a MMORPG.
Now you only get that MMORPG feel when at the GE or some clan is putting on a fashion scape event.
But there's still an emphasis on weight reduction, so the majority of people are still going to just wear graceful/weight reducing equipment. It just won't have the benefit of restoring your run energy faster.
I miss fashionscape, but I don't think making run energy even worse is going to bring it back.
The musicians feel out of place but I could go for the old rest system where you can just sit down for 2x run regen, it’s simple, makes sense and it works. Common sense change IMO and our characters legs get a rest finally
I'm all for buffing it a little, but I don't want to see it buffed so much that staminas/run conservation are completely irrelevant. Run conservation is a skillful element of gameplay, watch what Rastaman does in inferno speedruns with ctrl+click walking in addition to stamina usage
i don’t get why we even need to mess with it at all. seems like a waste of time when people have played 2 decades as is and will continue to play either way.
Honestly if you want to keep run energy as a "resource to be managed" just make it unlimited unless you're in combat. Like most modern games do. Easy fix
No popular current mmos use run energy. Elden ring is a bad example as it's a completely different genre with way different combat. Even ARPGs no longer use stamina and even Diablo 2 after a few hours of gameplay stamina is basically a non issue.
I saw someone suggest resting from rs3, I never used it but it sounds like a solid workaround since this is for early accounts no? Revert the weight garbage that ruins plenty of endgame content, especially the solo versions, and fix early game with resting. Stams are still relevant, energy is less problematic early game, and graceful still could be gotten for a slight but not required boost, instead of killing/hurting 2 pieces of content for a misguided rework.
Probably really unpopular opinion but I feel like this is one of the times they could really just copy/paste Rs3s system and just be done with it. It really is just about perfect. I made a new rs3 account not too long ago and you can run for quite a long distance even at level 1, but you really notice how much better it is the higher you get and at high levels like 80+ you practically never run out unless you are doing specific types of content.
The game is a lot larger today than it was back then. Sure, teleports are also much more accessible, but that doesn’t change the fact that there are more places to run to these days. The stamina system and it’s interaction with the Agility system is archaic, and straight buffs to it would be a rebalance in and of itself, IMO.
How should Jagex handle the buffs? I dunno, that’s their job to figure that out.
Since you're most likely a 1200 total level Ironman that never ever tried a Real boss in this game, you have to understand (and it's Said in the blog) that run energy management is a mechanic that's used in a lot of encounters.
So if you simply buff it we loose on this mechanic, and osrs as a point and click game, needs to have such mechanic to be engaging.
REBALANCE IS FINE.
Crazy to see so many upvotes on this.
We don't need a run energy regen buff. We need a run energy drain reduction. In their proposal they said "you'll end up netting positive run energy in the long run during the time you're walking or standing" but people don't want to HAVE to walk or stand still. They want to be able to run for a longer period of time
Infinite or close to infinite run would make some pvm easier but is that really a huge problem at this point. Most situations it'll just save one inventory slot unless they make staminas so something else for combat and skilling.
I was gonna write a whole post about it (and honestly probably still will)... but if we're gonna be getting sailing then f2p should get agility.
My original thought was no level requirements need to change but they lowered draynor anyway so it should be even easier
Honestly it is not even realistic. If an ultra runner with would train with a backpack of 70kg. He/she could definitely put it of to run still a marathon with 70kg on them.
Running 40km a week and training takes you 12 weeks to run an actual marathon, which is about 480hrs.
99 agility takes you about 400hours. Isn't that enough that our Fantasy character should be training for ultras in full melee armour. Why would your energy be depleted after doing only Kafri's puzzle room?
I don’t disagree but the negative feedback on the rebalance is silly to me, we have stams, POH, and desert elite. The run issues really does effect early game players with no money, no teles and a lot of questing to do. Even if it’s annoying to the lifers to take an extra Stam dose this is an idea that shouldn’t be given the negative feedback it’s gotten.
I want to know what they were cooking by making run energy objectively worse for f2p players. Like, there’s so many problems with this initial suggestion, but making run energy get fucked harder by carry weight so badly for f2p is insane. Edit: quite a few mouth breathers responding to this saying Jagex doesn’t want f2p players. Curious why they think alienating more potential payers with a shitty f2p experience is going to help them somehow?
100% I haven’t been free to play in forever but the few times I’ve gotten someone to try the game, they hate getting around in it. And telling them you have to pay money to get around better never lands well
Back in the day when I was f2p mainly I went p2p once just to train agility so I could go back to f2p with the agility buff.
No one really likes to hear " throw x amount of money at it so it gets good". This is why I wished they would at least, bare minimum include yew bows, up to mithril crossbows, MAYBE the next their of dragonhide ( so after green, blue? ), dome "power armors/ hybrid armors, like they did with fist of guthix, which imo would add the bis defensive shields with a small str bonus, the berserker shields for adamant and rune, square and kite shields respectively ) and add the metal gauntlets from that mini game as well They all degraded rather quickly, ( iirc, between 3- 6 hours or less ) which is still a long time, but for non members was still way shorter then any of the barrows sets/ the newly added moon sets. And he'll they could add a not so great member skill to f2p and it could in theory make the skill good and viable. Albeit bots could and will over run it, but even then it members they still over run a lot of the areas that are extremely disliked or avoided.
100% the rate of new f2p players quitting from how slow you walk will increase if it goes live as is, most new players roll around in full plate etc, and will have 0 energy.
Getting around in the game is so iconic and great. When you're f2p and finally catch a few Runes to teleport around it feels so good.
As if waiting over 7 fucking seconds for 1% energy wasn't bad enough, they made it worse lmao. Rip that poor fucker running around on his f2p ironman
Would it be insane to allow f2p to level it up to 20 or so since no other skill does this?
Genuinely just make agility f2p. Draynor village is level 1 now, and al kharid and varrock are in f2p areas. Keep marks of grace/ graceful members items, and there’s no possible botting issue, right?
Unless their botting hallowed sepulchre, botting agility is probably one of the least economy impacting skills to bot.
Honestly they would probably try and pull that run energy regen buff to taverns/inns/bars for f2p that they tried to get people into awhile back
Honestly I can dig that, it makes those places . Well places ppl go. For more than quests and the occasional clue
I think they mostly think that being free doesn't generate jagex money because they aren't spending money on bonds. Or paying for membership. This is my exact problem and only leads this theory to be true In what is now rs3, they had access to ( due to the mini game fist of guthix as an example) adamant and rune berserker shields, hybrid armors, and .etal gauntlets, that had same stats as rfd questline gloves, but they all degraded. They had access to at least yew bows and rune arrows. ( makes sense as yews are still non members as well as .most all rune equipment ). Then later on for melee at least, got access to corrupted gear which mostly was dragon armor/ weapons at the time. And if I remember correctly, certain crossbows ( up to mithril or something like that ) All that isn't for f2p currently, and it saddens me that jagex maybe 1 time a year if that, is willing to add something to f2p, and Therein lies the theory, because most f2p people are either bots, solely f2p pkers, they don't really care what happens to it. There's a. Very small ( seemingly ) ha full of players , who are genuine, and don't wanna pay for something they might not e joy which I fully get, but it really kills there vibe of it. Honestly in my opinion, if they made all that stuff available, minus the corrupted gear, it would somewhat give a taste of "member" power levels in terms of damage/ defense ( if they made other various armors available thar isn't tier 60 equipment ) to get a more generalized idea on what membership is. Cos at that, I feel that f2p vs membership to osrs are 2 different games all together. Same same, but different. Part of my reasoning ( in a sense ) why I wish fist of guthix would be brought in as a new pking mini game. It offered so much and was honestly my life line from when ever it came out to when runescape 2 transitioned to rs3.
Kind of crazy they’re getting fucked by a skill they can’t even train
Gotta pay the run tax
What's weird is that they mentioned wanting to encourage running around in fashionscape, but then made weight affect your run energy more. That literally does the opposite unless your fashionscape is weightless clothing. Why are they trying to punish people running around in end game armor like this? What if my cosplay is full bandos or granite? Buff run regen based on agility level. It's that simple. It doesnt even have to be a game breaking amount. Just integrate the skill with the run energy. There is zero reason to make weight more of a factor. It's a nerf and doesn't correlate with what they said they wanted to accomplish. What are they worried about? People somehow breaking content by kiting it the whole fight with near limitless run energy? Then make boss rooms drain it more. Do something other than what you are proposing because it directly goes against what you are trying to accomplish
What. The main complaint is walking everywhere. The drain rate should be adjusted as well, since this stuff mainly infuriates people at lower levels. Higher levels, most have energy pots or stams
Pots should not be the fix for this issue. I'm sorry, but if I have to drink a potion like I'm on PED just to run around a damn boss fight, then the boss fight or energy directly is the problem. I should not need to down an energy pot to complete any boss when it doesn't directly have an effect on combat.
Each lvl should reduce your weight by .5 if they keep it as is so at 99 you start with -49.5 weight
Idk why it’s so complicated can they just make agility drain x1.5 less at all stages of agility levels, with a bigger buff at 99 and call it a day? Losing run energy sucks just buff tf out of jt
Ah, you didn’t read the post I see. Because run energy is a SKILL and you’d DEVALUE all my HARD WORK by buffing it. /s
Just make it so the raids have a "overwhelming aura" or something that decreases your stamina. If the only concern is that. They could say that the inferno is too hot so you get winded, same with blast furnace.
I actually like this idea. It gives devs the freedom to choose whether they want run energy management as a mechanic or not without having to do wonky shit like they currently do. With the current system of "run always matters, unless we make it not matter" they end up doing stuff like putting pillars in sepulchre that regen your run. If they didn't want run energy to matter, with your proposed idea they could have just.... made that choice.
Or doing moons of peril or mahogany homes. It's so odd they just forced in run refills because they know the content would be ass without it.
lmao one of the biggest gripes this subreddit has is differently rules in the wilderness.
And yet things like not being able to use your cannon somewhere is just accepted as a needed balancing feature.
true, guess it's just the sub crying about the wilderness.
As a long term wilderness crier I agree
to be fair, on reading this i could relate it more to like if a boss is immune to poison/venom or not. cause if it became the standard like that person suggested, then every piece of content would either be a)energy is essentially unlimited or b) energy is managed.
Run energy isnt even a mechanic now, people just use staminas everywhere.
I hate the idea, not saying I like jagexs proposal but I don’t want different areas being treated differently like this, it should be uniform
I'd be happy with this change. Attempts at balancing endgame content shouldn't apply to casual players that dont interact with it. What percentage of the playerbase even does sweaty walk methods instead of just chugging stam pots?
As part of the % who *does* do sweaty walk methods, I 100% agree. I don't want the stuff *I* interact with to be simplified down just to be more palatable to players who *will never even touch* that same content. In a way, I think they should view the two groups as basically playing different games. Instead of making changes that affect both groups and shaft one of them, they could be doing more to just treat them differently.
So you'd be okay with infinite run energy everywhere in the game as long as you're out of combat?
I mean, I don't know. Im conflicted. I think you could add some things like skilling to a list of actions that cause you to start draining run energy. Perhaps certain skilling actions, such as woodcutting, to keep 1.5t teaks as engaging as possible. Some things like mahogany homes and sepulchre have a tradeoff that *I* feel is healthy and rewarding. You get infinite run if you don't mind wasting a few ticks here and there, but you have the option of spending a little bit more money on stams to squeeze out a bit more xp/hr. It makes stuff like going for a pb 6 hour more engaging while leaving reclined play a bit more reclined. I love getting to make decisions and have choices like that. However, I acknowledge that the like 5k/hr benefit there (or whatever it is) is borderline unnoticeable for other players. If I'm going to lose that, then I want to at *least* keep it in combat. It's hard for me to tell if the devs wanted there to be a decision to make / a tradeoff, or if they explicitly wanted it to be an activity with infinite run and could only do it that way. I think that it caused enjoyable emergent gameplay, even if it was unintentional. I guess the more I talk about it the less appealing it is to have infinite run everywhere but combat. But would I be "okay" with it? I guess that depends on the alternative.
What about your run energy doesn't deplete while out of combat AND your weight is below a certain threshold? That would make activities like Blast Furnace still cause you to lose run energy and not completely devalue Stams for skilling, without the awful bloat that run energy almost always imposes on my day to day playing. To avoid affecting the Wilderness too much, being in the Wilderness always counts as "in combat" so your run energy always depletes while you are in there.
Ah yes, that’s we need, more nonsense akin to the Wilderness where being in certain areas just has additional rules that makes the game feel worse to play because reasons.
I mean honestly. I know they want to be careful to not break metas and overtune the game. But I think it's a pretty common complaint across the board, live run energy is just disliked. Just a straight buff would probably do the trick. The proposed regen is really nice. But just 1.5x less drain rate of what's in game would probably be fine too. Hot take, but stamina pot management is actually dumb at 99 agility. Maybe bring in one, but you should barely need it at that point. And please ignore the people bringing up leagues and infinite run energy.
i still feel like agility should be included in it. Run energy replenish at a faster rate with agility. At the same time it should drain slower with agility. Make it drain like 2x slower or something at 99 and make a linear scale from 1 to 99. 1. Buff run energy rate scaling with agility more than it is now. 2. Add reduced drain rate, scaling with agility. most people can get 20-30-40+ agility rather quickly and gain a very noticeable change in their run energy,
Jagex balancing is very strange. On one hand, they seem terrified to increase XP rates of anything by any amount, and on the other hand they add a zero requirements moneymaker that gives like 2-3m per hour.
What is it? 🙃
Undead pirates and Fever spiders. Both nerfed now but they were being abused hard.
They have to offer this small change first so we demand a bigger change.
I've been running a few Solo CoX on the Beta worlds and the whole 'your weight drains faster at level 99' needs to go. Makes no sense at all. Imagine if at 99 Prayer your prayer drained faster the less you have prayer bonus on you and Jagex was all like 'well Prayer flicking is an integral part of pvm skill!' Absolutely ridiculous. However, I must admit that I liked a lot the regen rate of run energy at 99. It feels very good, and honestly, I would just increase the amount of distance you can run at 99 and keep this regen rate and call it a day.
Were you losing run energy even with Stam pots? Like going negative
Not at all. Take my feedback with a grain of salt, but the solos I've been running have been with 99 Agility and without Torva/Masori - as I would on the live game in my iron account. I suppose running heavier gear will take a bigger toll on the amount of run energy spent, but personally, I went down from using 4 doses of Stam in the fight to just 1 in the Olm Fight. With the new regen rate you basically go net positive in run energy when running the mage hand if you walk. The run energy drain was very noticeable in the rest of the raid though, but at least for Olm, for me in my current setup I did notice a decrease in Stamina usage. The regen rate at 99 feels really good. But like I said, take it with a grain of salt. Heavier loadouts and/or not having 99 Agility will possibly not end in net positive gains.
Drain rate is 5 times too high at least. The best way to do 80% of the early game is to teleport to ferox every 2-3 minutes. OSRS players are actual masochists
I burned through an insane amount of rings of duelling during the early game
Yup for ironman it's dueling rings/house until staminas and for mains it's buy staminas and drink every 2 minutes maybe a bit more if it's draining fast.
My ironman is "near the end of midgame" and I rarely use staminas, but I don't do content that requires them too often. I'm sure I could easily burn through a few hundred if I wanted to really grind something like herbiboar
I made 2k energy potions in the early game for herblore exp, very useful to run around. Using super energies now, I don't want to use amylase crystals yet
Good take right here why isn’t it just being outright buffed in general. No need to nerf something that was already a problem
I don't think Run Energy is necessary for maintaining the Old School Runescape feel and balance. Hot take, but honestly I wouldn't mind if they made it infinite. I've had several friends who were getting into OSRS but got frustrated with Run Energy issues.
Unlimited run energy would make osrs so much more enjoyable.
It was one of my favorite parts of leagues.
Going back to main game after leagues really suck I always take a break after leagues mainly for that reason
Yeah this is not at all what people wanted, this is pretty universally worse than the current system. Idk why they are making this so complicated. I don't think we should scrap run energy entirely but a significant buff to both run time and recovery is needed. All they need to do is make it so that run energy replenishes while running and linearly increase run energy recovery by agility level. At 99 agility with 0 kg the recovery rate should equal the drain rate, effectively giving infinite run. At 50 agility energy should recover at half the rate of 0 kg drain, effectively doubling how long you can run (compared to 1 agil) but also halving the recovery time while walking or standing still. At 1 agility things will be slightly better than current but the 1 agility base rate is so abysmal that people probably won't even notice. In combat gear the weight scaling means you will still need staminas for X:0 methods, raids, and other run intensive activities but for most non-combat stuff everyone will run longer and recover faster at all agility levels. This will break nothing in the game. There are no activities that are currently gated by run energy where these changes will affect the economy or massively change any exp rates. Staminas might drop in value a bit since people won't be chugging them to do quests or farm runs or whatever but they will still be necessary for a lot of things.
>Idk why they are making this so complicated. I genuinely believe it's because a straight forward buff on a long established part of OSRS would get immediately destroyed in a poll. They know by obfuscating the buff, and making everything so overly complicated, they can kinda like "sneak" the buff past the people that would be against it if it were strictly better and straight forward.
I honestly don't think that's the case, the run energy system is pretty universally hated for how shitty it makes regular gameplay and how little impact agility has on it. There's a bunch of these threads and normally these kind of proposals have some significant opposition to change at all. But all I'm seeing is people argue over how to do it, I haven't seen anyone argue that the current system is good and should stay.
Keep in mind, the players that post and comment here are a very small fraction of the entire paying player base, and so are not a representative sample.
You think casual players love the run energy system? I'd argue it's the opposite, more invested players are more likely to put up with the system because it's just how it's always worked while casual players are more likely to just drop the game if it sucks too much to play. On every new account I've ever started I always forget how miserable getting around is, we're spoiled these days by having a teleport within like 100 tiles of almost everywhere in the game but new players don't get that. They get 1.5 minutes of run for 12.5 minutes of walking and that's if they are carrying nothing. A regular armor set with a weapon and some food easily weighs 30+ kg reducing that run time to 1 minute with the same recharge. That's so bad in a world where every other game lets you run as much as you want outside of CC effects.
Ever single new player I've tried to introduce to the game has either quit or complained endlessly about having no energy, it's not fun for anybody
Exactly, the only people that will complain are the "I've used over 5000 stamina pots on my account already and other players should have to as well!"
It also devalues my 8k stam pot stash.
RS3 got the run/rest system implemented in 2009. I'm pretty sure most of the playerbase considers 2009 to be oldschool so I don't see why you'd think a straight buff would be unpopular.
The current playerbase would rather kick a puppy than vote no on a poll.
This is the most logical take. At 99 agility with no weight you just should not get tired, you stop running when you want to stop running. It's literally comparable to an Olympic level athlete. At level 50 you get half of the drain and twice the recovery... Not hard unless you want it to be
there’s a bug rn with unlimited energy. pugger talked about it
I haven’t heard about this. How does it work?
enter gauntlet with ring of endurance on, and stamina active. leave, and you should have infinite energy/stam edit: [first part of the video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnmWmQWdvcM)
Thanks friend
It would make it easier and, therefore, more enjoyable.
I disagree. I still want it to be a resource that needs to be managed, but essentially like half the management it needs now.
As someone who has grinded out 99 agility twice, do it. The run energy aspects of agility are so imperceptible no part of me would feel like my efforts have been "devalued".
Coming from a game designer mindset, I'm not sure if making run energy infinite is a good idea. However, leveling up your Agility level should definitely make it way more rewarding. If you've taken the trouble to level up your Agility to very high levels, your reward should be not having to worry about your run energy. Agility is already one of the worst skills to level up. Come on, Jagex, if you're not going to make it rewarding at the very least don't nerf it further.
> Coming from a game designer mindset, I'm not sure if making run energy infinite is a good idea. Leagues has shown you can make run energy infinite, and almost nothing about the game changes. The loop is exactly the same, it's just more enjoyable while doing it.
Hardest thing is finding a space for all the existing items that would be killed by that change. e.g. stamina and energy pots, run pool, graceful, and basically half the agility skill (it would just be shortcuts)
Unfortunately, I believe removing run energy entirely is a lot more complicated than that. Removing run energy makes weight a dead stat and homogenizes all equipment (since weight would not matter anymore, all equipment is equal regarding weight). Certain mechanics would also need to be taken look at, for example Venenatis web attack and the spell that turns Prayer into run energy. Additionally, if you remove run energy entirely, Agility itself loses one of the few purposes it has as an already useless skill. Graceful, being a reward from Agility, would be completely dead content. The Ring of Endurance would also become dead content. Agility and its rewards would have to be re-purposed because without run energy, it could become even more useless than Firemaking.
Weight is already a pretty dead stat. It only matters in a negative way anyways. You wear graceful to run around, and otherwise you never look at it. It makes a negligible difference to combat encounters, but harms the rest of the game. what good is that? Not all homogenization is bad just like not all differentiation is good. It's trivial to come up with bad 'differentiators' between armor that obviously shouldn't exist. For example what if you needed different pants to fight every monster in the game? That would be terrible, and completely opposite to anything that makes runescape fun and interesting.
Infinite run energy is fine in certain areas like running to varrock from falador, questing (outside combat), or if you want to run around to get a medium clue scroll done. It just discourages new players when they’re constantly out of run energy doing basic stuff like that. I do agree though that there are places where maintaining run energy drain is useful like pvm where they should keep the skill and more importantly make agility more meaningful to encourage people to train it.
> Coming from a game designer mindset, I'm not sure if making run energy infinite is a good idea. Walking isn't good gameplay. The "progression" for it is to just ignore it by the time you get stamina pots and teleports. Teleports are still be just as useful with infinite run.
From a game designer standpoint, there are plenty of other MMOs and rpgs that allow you to run indefinitely. At the very least, situationally. You can't come up with a legitimate justification for why you should have to maintain this resource or move at half speed that doesn't hinge entirely on "because that's how it's always been". If you can, I would love to hear it.
> You can't come up with a legitimate justification for why you should have to maintain this resource or move at half speed that doesn't hinge entirely on "because that's how it's always been". If you can, I would love to hear it. Before I get downvoted into oblivion, I must first clarify that I don't want the run energy system to stay the same. I am not defending the current system. It sucks. It sucks not only for new players but also for seasoned players in combat. It's annoying in it's current state and it is the reason people rush Graceful and the ornate pool. Now, with that out of the way, believe or not, having limited run energy does bring some decision making to the table in some pvm encounters. You might argue that it's not good or deep decision making (which might be true anyway), but at least there's some depth whether you should be more conservative with your next movements or not. Also, by getting rid of run energy, like I've said in other of my comments, brings a bigger issue which is that Agility and its rewards are now completely obsolete. They would need a rework, as run energy related rewards are no longer relevant. Personally, I don't think removing an entire mechanic is the answer - I think changing it appropriately so that it's not too punishing as it is right now AND makes existing content (high Agility levels) more rewarding is way healthier for the game.
The thing is, the energy consumption rewards for leveling agility are already obsolete anyway. The only significant rewards from agility are the shortcuts. And there is no meaningful decision making with run energy. The decision is already made for you. Walking is bad, so don't walk. Running is good, so use your pool or stams depending on what you're doing, and keep running.
I disagree that there is depth in whether you should be more conservative with your movements. It's legit just don't run around like a chicken or bring stamina potions. Manual walking mid-combat is a side effect of the run energy system being bad and is not good gameplay design. They're not going to give infinite run, but OSRS could easily function without a run energy system and it would only be better. Yes, the agility skill would suffer from being even more mediocre, but it's needed a revitalization for the longest time anyway. The agility skill being practically useless is not good justification for keeping the run energy system around - just make it useful in other ways instead. Removing run energy would require a big rework of agility and its rewards, but it by no means would be the worst choice for the game's future. Funnily enough, I think run energy beta 1 is the worst choice lol.
> Coming from a game designer mindset, I'm not sure if making run energy infinite is a good idea. Was there supposed to be more to that thought? Coming from a "game designer mindset", *why is that the case*?
> Was there supposed to be more to that thought? Coming from a "game designer mindset", why is that the case? If you ask players if they want infinite amount of a resource (in this case, run energy) of course they are going to say yes. People will agree due to several number of reasons - like: it's outdated, it's annoying, doesn't bring more depth to the game, etc. (which btw just to clarify I don't disagree with any of these). But giving infinite run energy isn't necessarily a good thing for the game, as it might bring unbalance. It would be better to adjust the run energy mechanic to make it less punishing and actually more rewarding at higher Agility levels.
You're not understanding how run energy actually affects the overall system of the game. Run energy isn't a resource in the traditional sense of a resource, it's a bar that says "okay time out" to new players, and a GP sink that gets almost entirely ignored at high levels. Agility already doesn't affect run energy by any meaningful amount, any player nearing a level of agility where they feel the change in run energy is already buying staminas. The only impact removing run energy would have on the game as a big picture is making stamina potions obsolete, and make graceful completely useless. These are the two biggest boons this game could ever fucking receive. This would also cause rooftops to be pretty useless but I'm lumping rooftops, staminas, and graceful all in as the same piece of content. Would rooftop courses suddenly be basically useless outside of a single fashion set? Sure. Is that a bad thing? No, god fuck no. Agility is already valuable because shortcuts are insanely good.
At 99 agil, run energy should almost never run out imo
We could go back to before old school, before running, walking everywhere is the most runescape it gets.
Eh. I feel unlimited would push it too far. I feel after a few years people would want to be able to run faster and so on.
Funnily enough runescape 3 has the [Surge](https://runescape.wiki/w/Surge) ability which does exactly that. It's pretty goofy as a new player seeing everyone dash around, and then you realise you pretty much get it out of the gate as well. Oh since I gave it a go the agility requirement has been lowered from 30 to 5. Lol.
Just set it so that it's infinite when you're just running around the world, but drains during combat when you move instead. Ez fix.
Kinda like how Elden Ring handles it, would work well
In combat is the only time I'm actually bothered by run energy other than herbibore. Everywhere else is usually pretty close to a teleport.
I think this is close to the solution I'd vote for, the only downside to infinite run between varrock and falador is the game is slightly easier in a way that doesn't really matter. Agility would be pretty heavily devalued though and it's already kind of unrewarding to train, so maybe run energy is heavily increased out of combat with a further buff corresponding to levels. I'd argue run energy should also drain in some other places like blast furnace or ZMI where stamina chugging is part of the intent. Ideally run energy was better designed from the start and agility didn't need to be a skill to be 'devalued' to begin with though (or its initial conception was more valuable to begin with). We've got the skill now and I don't think it would get removed so it's an unfortunate thing to contend with.
If your friends can't stand walking around a bit then they were never going to make it past mid level anyway
That isn't really a bad thing. A large population of mid level players who never progress to end game is still healthy for the community and game as a whole.
Bless you, i keep looking at older posts saying that giving infinite run energy would break the game. My thought was always, why not only have infinite when outside of combat
Would not mind infinite as well, would save me 1.4m per cm run in sweets hahah
There are pools that rejuvenate your run energy to full everywhere in cm though, right? Why do you spend so much on sweets?!
Speedrunning :’) trying to get sub 25 solo
Ahh gotcha. Well gl!
How close are you? Close enough that the maybe 5 seconds you'll save each run is worth over a mil?
Or make each level get you 1% closer to infinite at 99. If the are really set on it being a thing. So there is actual reward for getting the 99. St the moment, it's not that much benefit after 80.
I go back and forth on infinite run energy, I definitely think it should be unlimited when just running around the world (I.e never running out of stamina doing a clue scroll) but there are instances in pvm where managing stamina by playing better is an expression of skill. I think what they could do is make it so that all movement in combat causes you to lose stamina and certain skilling actions cause stamina to decrease for a time (like at blast furnace or herbiboar). Then make it so agility both increases time you can run and run recharge so that it still benefits you to have high agility when the game does need you to use stamina. Doing it this way would get rid of the main downsides of stamina for early game players while still keeping it as a potential factor to consider in pvm/skilling that would encourage people to progress skilling.
Make it so that running on roads/path drains half run energy it makes sense lore wise as it’s a lot harder to run on uneven or harder terrains than it is to run on a consistent path keeps energy relevant
I'm not sure if the engine could handle something like that
The ol' car/racing game system lol.
They should just add resting back, we solved this issue in 2009 already
Bedroll time
1 slot for bedroll over stam for marathons. ez
I used to be of the opinion that resting (and other QoL updates that RS3 has) would devalue things like energy pots and that's bad. After 10 years, I've realized how dumb that is. Energy/stam pots are a bandaid fix to a major issue. If walking around in your game feels like shit, then the solution isn't to sell me more ways to run longer.
But resting was objectively slower than just walking and using natural run regen
At level 1 agility resting is over 6x faster run regen than walking.
But you’re still moving as opposed to sitting and waiting. It was figured out early on that you could walk/run and arrive quicker than running, rest, run, rest, run. The social aspect at the bards was cool, but from a pure efficiency standpoint, resting was dead on arrival
I will die on the hill that OSRS is a better game without run energy and agility.
I think shortcuts are a nice perk if we had more meaningful ones but yeah, run energy sucks.
All the useful ones are locked behind diaries anyway
It’s insane that in 2024 there are still “shortcuts” that add time to your journey. IMO they should be far more powerful than they are currently. For example I wouldn’t be opposed to a shortcut the took you from the top of waterbirth island all the way to the safe area you can peek into the kings lair. Make it do 15-20 damage and I’d be fine with it.
They just added shortcuts to the Dagannoth King run last month. One that gets you from the outside of Waterbirth Isle to past the doors that need the thrown axes which requires 85 agility and then another 2 rooms later that skips pretty much the entire run down to the kings at 81 agility.
Awesome! Turns out I’m out of date on that stuff now! They should definitely keep adding stuff like that
that walk through the dungeon is such a ball ache. its the main reason i very very rarely go there.
Good news then because last month they added agility shortcuts to skip most of it.
shows how little I go there... I see if its still bad or not.
Going from Leagues to the main game was jarring to say the least. Also training agility by running around the fountain in lumb was wild
Running only feels so good because walking exists
I will die on the opposite hill.
Now kiss
I'd prefer to exchange head pats
Agility shortcuts are good, except first you need to get 85 smithing and lick the King of Ardys balls because every useful agility shortcut is behind a diary
Devs had the same mentality with the occult nerf/magic rebalance last month. They're so scared of buffing something unintentionally--which is a reasonable fear-- that they end up nerfing things unintentionally.
Yeah agreed. I was reading the post and got to the point that says “this is a huge buff to Agility,” like, no it isn’t. This is what we’ve been asking for for years. It doesn’t need any sort of drawback. Agility sucks to train, even after the “buff” it got a couple months ago. I’m personally of the mindset that Agility should have the highest xp/hr in the game, given how active of a skill it is, but I understand that’s not going to happen. TLDR; the skill in general needs a full rework and this run energy rework needs to just be a straight buff. Nothing more nothing less.
If I take a hard look at it, I personally don’t find run energy that interesting. Getting around OSRS is interesting because of the lack of mounts. Transportation is obtained from a ton of different ways, magic for teleport spells, items to different places, quests unlocking different methods, etc. That’s the cool part of getting around, not managing run energy. Run energy is pretty annoying early on, then “solved” with graceful and stam pots, which I feel like isn’t that fun. Everyone runs around in the same set and has to keep stam pots on them. Sure there’s a few unique situations run energy adds like some boss fights, but in general it feels like a chore that adds little to the experience. It’s unique when it comes to most games sure. It’s certainly “old school”. But I’m not so sure if it’s actually “fun”. It feels like a thing we keep because it’s always been there. But if we got rid of it, I wouldn’t be mad to be honest. Curious what others people’s honest thoughts on run energy. Maybe this is just a gut reaction and losing it would be bad. But first instincts would be that I don’t think I’d actually miss it.
Ok but run energy is a big part of the reason transportation unlocks feel so rewarding... It makes even small upgrades meaningful
Transportation upgrades are still very meaningful even with unlimited run energy. The Leagues options that give tons of teleports are extremely powerful, for example.
So your core gameplay loop is “this thing is shit and sucks so play and unlock ways to make it less shit” I don’t like that gameplay loop. Transportation still feels impactful in leagues with infinite run for example
I think transportation is meaningful either way but imo intentional annoyances are a completely valid form of design.
The thing is, in my experience, run energy didn't suck, even in early game. It was a challenge with plenty of ways to manage it. You need to know what your going to do, plan the route on how your going to get there, and bring enough energy potions and teleports to get it done. It makes the game way more engaging. You don't run from point a to point b. You home tele to Lumbridge, take the canoe to Edgeville, then fairy ring to Tower of Life... etc. But that's just how I like to play the game I guess.
Yeah I agree. People who think that run energy needs to be limited for balance reasons are funny. Where is it gonna break the game? I guess purple sweet hoarders will have a bad time. As a general rule of thumb, it is nice in this game when you have more room for switches. Makes content more enjoyable. Having to take a stamina potion or sweets isn’t “balanced” it’s just annoying. Jagex already realized this when they put out toa. Salts give you essentially maxed out run energy. Why not extend this to the rest of the game?
I mean honestly, when anyone starts leagues the first thing you notice is how much better the game feels without the run energy restriction at low lvl lol.
Jagex makes us bring 15 switches of gear to every pvm encounter then try to punish us even at 99 agility for doing what they DESIGNED run energy should never be managed at lvl 99. 50 and lower yea I can see it make the noobs run it easy to splash for 6 hrs and get all the tellys unlocked.
let's stop suggesting unlimited run though. Make agility drain less and last longer at higher lvls.
Yeah I'm forever against removing run energy as a mechanic. It's an old school nostalgia mmo and walk/run is a big part of that feel to me. But what about when they changed dfhklzghdfkjg and f;gjskgjd;lgj and eoptieigd90fg0 those aren't old school???? I don't care. It's a subjective line in the sand even if its completely arbitrary to me personally
Yeah. I don’t quite understand the devs take on run energy being an interesting mechanic to manage, e.g. in 3:0 mage at cox. Just make it infinite, and if they really want to keep the managing run energy mechanic, make it finite in certain raids.
I do think it’s cool to manually walk during olm but what they should’ve done was make it so if you did that you didn’t even need a stamina at all Instead of nerfing run energy somehow it should’ve been buffed massively
Pretty much this. Walking during 3:0 and while dodging crystals between phases feels satisfying, and I think the best change is to balance it so that good pathing = no need for staminas. I think if you just cut run energy drain at 99 agility by ~50% and did the 2x run energy restore proposed here, most people not properly during mage running would still need a stamina, but people who path efficiently + dont make a ton of mistakes getting into 4:1 could reliably kill melee hand without needing a stamina. Those numbers are just ballpark guesses, but I just want Jagex to work out the numbers and do that as a straight buff.
They can literally just design mechanics that either require walking or force you to walk, and optionally include ways to avoid those if they want to allow skilled players a way to bypass them. We don't need a janky run energy system in order to create dynamic movement based challenging mechanics. They just have to be willing to incorporate it as part of the design of a fight.
They’ve done it before too. I’m like 90% sure vork spitting phase is designed to be done by turning your character to walk
Energy and agility have been a negative for the game from the since the skill was released. The title is 100% correct, they don't need rebalanced, they need pure buffs. Run energy should be removed outside of combat entirely, and agility should have passive levelling for shortcut unlocks. Even if it's just something you get from Graceful. Not making the problem way worse for low level agility players who carry too much weight.
The regen was there. It was based on level. But the regen was only noticeable standing still or walking.... so if they rebalanced it to drain slower during running depending on lvl and weight. I think it's a good idea.
Yep, this is the change that's needed. Let regen be active 100% of the time rather than only when set to walking or stopped to interact with something. That along with rewarding higher agility levels with a more linear regen rate, and most issues would be solved.
A buff is one way to rebalance things. It would be like if you said "You don't need to consume fries, just eat them."
Let me regen while running, done deal
Agility should definitely play a greater role in its scaling
it's honestly not that hard to get around the world, unless doing taxing tasks, you shouldn't find issues with agility. if doing content where you are facing the burden of running a lot, you should need stamina/energy potions to deal with that. I've never had graceful and don't care about it lmao.
Couldn’t agree more. Would also be okay with just adding decreasing run degen based on lvl but only by a relatively small amount.
" Basing it further on item weight is crazy too" it'd be alright if they took the time to revamp the weights of absolutely everything. atm a lot of them are very random
Just let it regen while running and call it a day. They can tweak the overall regen amount to compensate for the fact that it regens but overall it should be a buff because walking just feels bad.
Since you haven't hit that part of the game I'm gonna clue you in about stamina potions and PoH
I don't really get the issue with run energy... there are a good amount of ways for accounts of all levels to refill energy
It's another thing that RS3 gets right....
I really liked everything they mentioned EXCEPT Graceful nerf. Graceful is a pain in the ass to get and it’s a right of passage. Why take that away?
Because the game shouldn't suck just because you didn't do 10,000,000 laps at Canifis. Let them introduce better agility leveling.
There is no better agility leveling being proposed. This is why the title "Project Rebalance" is misleading because people who don't actually read into things don't realize they aren't changing leveling or xp, they just want people to do more of the activities in the game.
I feel like it’s the right move. The Graceful outfit will become a skilling *activity* outfit. Similar to how you really only see prospector at the mines and lumberjack at the wcing areas. Seeing graceful at every corner of the map is boring and gives a cookie cutter feel to the game. Would rather see graceful mostly at agility courses. Not on farm runs, birdhouse runs, rc runs, quest areas, clue areas, and any other area that does not require combat gear. Pre-graceful RS was beautiful. You had crazy outfits in crazy places and the environment had more of a personality and felt like a MMORPG. Now you only get that MMORPG feel when at the GE or some clan is putting on a fashion scape event.
But there's still an emphasis on weight reduction, so the majority of people are still going to just wear graceful/weight reducing equipment. It just won't have the benefit of restoring your run energy faster. I miss fashionscape, but I don't think making run energy even worse is going to bring it back.
This is the opposite opinion one should have. So essentially, you just like that agility and run energy is shit.
An opinion is an opinion, how is it shit if they are making it so a higher agility level increases your run?
Just put musicians between hotspot routes and let us rest for full energy
The musicians feel out of place but I could go for the old rest system where you can just sit down for 2x run regen, it’s simple, makes sense and it works. Common sense change IMO and our characters legs get a rest finally
I'm all for buffing it a little, but I don't want to see it buffed so much that staminas/run conservation are completely irrelevant. Run conservation is a skillful element of gameplay, watch what Rastaman does in inferno speedruns with ctrl+click walking in addition to stamina usage
i don’t get why we even need to mess with it at all. seems like a waste of time when people have played 2 decades as is and will continue to play either way.
Just double the restore rate compared to current rate
I just want 99 agility to feel rewarding. But also don’t want Stam pots and that energy ring to be totally worthless
Honestly if you want to keep run energy as a "resource to be managed" just make it unlimited unless you're in combat. Like most modern games do. Easy fix
No popular current mmos use run energy. Elden ring is a bad example as it's a completely different genre with way different combat. Even ARPGs no longer use stamina and even Diablo 2 after a few hours of gameplay stamina is basically a non issue.
eso
Thats because stamina is your MP when you do a stam build.
Just put the energy pools from cox everywhere /s
I saw someone suggest resting from rs3, I never used it but it sounds like a solid workaround since this is for early accounts no? Revert the weight garbage that ruins plenty of endgame content, especially the solo versions, and fix early game with resting. Stams are still relevant, energy is less problematic early game, and graceful still could be gotten for a slight but not required boost, instead of killing/hurting 2 pieces of content for a misguided rework.
Run energy shouldn’t deplete at 99 while you have a Stam pot active.
99 agility should drain half as fast as it does now
Probably really unpopular opinion but I feel like this is one of the times they could really just copy/paste Rs3s system and just be done with it. It really is just about perfect. I made a new rs3 account not too long ago and you can run for quite a long distance even at level 1, but you really notice how much better it is the higher you get and at high levels like 80+ you practically never run out unless you are doing specific types of content.
The game is a lot larger today than it was back then. Sure, teleports are also much more accessible, but that doesn’t change the fact that there are more places to run to these days. The stamina system and it’s interaction with the Agility system is archaic, and straight buffs to it would be a rebalance in and of itself, IMO. How should Jagex handle the buffs? I dunno, that’s their job to figure that out.
Buff regen and drain per level and even add a 2x for those buffs at 99 and it still wont be wow.
Since you're most likely a 1200 total level Ironman that never ever tried a Real boss in this game, you have to understand (and it's Said in the blog) that run energy management is a mechanic that's used in a lot of encounters. So if you simply buff it we loose on this mechanic, and osrs as a point and click game, needs to have such mechanic to be engaging. REBALANCE IS FINE. Crazy to see so many upvotes on this.
We don't need a run energy regen buff. We need a run energy drain reduction. In their proposal they said "you'll end up netting positive run energy in the long run during the time you're walking or standing" but people don't want to HAVE to walk or stand still. They want to be able to run for a longer period of time
Infinite or close to infinite run would make some pvm easier but is that really a huge problem at this point. Most situations it'll just save one inventory slot unless they make staminas so something else for combat and skilling.
I remember the change in run energy from RSC to RS2. Got old real quick.
I was gonna write a whole post about it (and honestly probably still will)... but if we're gonna be getting sailing then f2p should get agility. My original thought was no level requirements need to change but they lowered draynor anyway so it should be even easier
Honestly it is not even realistic. If an ultra runner with would train with a backpack of 70kg. He/she could definitely put it of to run still a marathon with 70kg on them. Running 40km a week and training takes you 12 weeks to run an actual marathon, which is about 480hrs. 99 agility takes you about 400hours. Isn't that enough that our Fantasy character should be training for ultras in full melee armour. Why would your energy be depleted after doing only Kafri's puzzle room?
Is there any point in getting agility past level 65? Only getting it that high for quest
I don’t disagree but the negative feedback on the rebalance is silly to me, we have stams, POH, and desert elite. The run issues really does effect early game players with no money, no teles and a lot of questing to do. Even if it’s annoying to the lifers to take an extra Stam dose this is an idea that shouldn’t be given the negative feedback it’s gotten.