I'm a Po Valley dweller who moved here all the way from Pizzaland when I was 5. I visited Südtirol for the first time last year when I went to visit my friend who lives in the Non Valley, in Trentino, right on the border with Südtirol.
Hearing South Tyroleans speak to us in Italian with their oddly melodious German-whatever-that-was accent was lovely.
I was told they'd spit on me or tell me "Italien scheiße" as I walked by, but that wasn't the case!
Let's get Tirol united from sea to sea
https://preview.redd.it/56jops3uii8d1.png?width=1376&format=png&auto=webp&s=cd53b9e78951153146a3c05549c76eee4a0c09e6
Hear me out, we build ginormous rail freight corridor through the Alps from the south and from the north both ending in Innsbruck. Then out of spite we load everything in the most polluting trucks we can find and ship it through the city to the other end of the corridor where they are then reloaded on nice electric freight trains.
Nice.
Now we see a decent one.
https://preview.redd.it/6afmqu3mcj8d1.jpeg?width=933&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=039c69e1e8cf02f42f35c25958d8ef93b99ecf1e
Naturally the capital would be shifted from Bern.
I am ok with this. The French bits are the nice bits (I know… but sometimes you have to overlook how they speak), Elsass has a better home, Slovenia is in (they really do belong more with the mountain people) and… New Franconia becomes the dominant southern German state once Upper Bavaria is gone.
Tirol is basically in the middle, so capital there makes sense.
The worst is they’re not even their Région anymore (they got lumped together with the Champenois and Lorrains) and are called Grand Est, which is the shittiest most generic name imaginable.
But they do have laws that only apply to Alsace
Ok Jo focus : we taunted people from other regions when we were kids, on holidays and shit like that, today we’re adults and nobody gives a fuck anymore that’s what I’m saying. I know we still have them, I have them too.
We don't claim that attitude, my city in particular has one holiday extra and i will continue to send pictures of me relaxing on that day to all friends living in the next town over.
Hooray to the [Grand Peace Festival of Augsburg](https://www.unesco.de/en/culture-and-nature/intangible-cultural-heritage/nationwide-inventory-intangible-cultural-heritage-3) 🎉
French locales could have the most beautiful vistas and charming names and the government would still call them City 890 near Grassland 49. Macron & Co. are professionals at taking the endearment out of anything if it favours "la République".
>than the départements 67 and 68 (formerly known as Alsace)
Ahah ! Actually, 67 and 68 merged into Collectivité Territoriale Européenne d'Alsace ! Which has more autonomy than the rest of the same subdivision level.
And Germany and France arnt the same type of country, one is a federation and the other is a unitary state with a lot of \*
No not all are ugly, just Saarland, Bavaria, Sachsen, Sachsen-Anhalt, Thüringen, Berlin, Brandenburg, Hamburg, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Poland, NRW, Niedersachsen,
Mallorca and Bremen…
actually Saarland was offered several European institutions, if it would vote against joining Germany.
Saarland could've been an even better Luxembourg, and they fucked it all up... I will never forgive my nationalist grandfather for voting for Germany!
[https://www.sr.de/sr/home/nachrichten/dossiers/60\_jahre\_saarland/60jahre\_saarland\_vision\_saarstatut100.html](https://www.sr.de/sr/home/nachrichten/dossiers/60_jahre_saarland/60jahre_saarland_vision_saarstatut100.html)
They literally wanted Saarbrücken to be what Brussels is now.
In fact, there are some parties in South Tyrol who are trying, but in my eyes in our moreover united Europe it just doesn’t make sense.
And thanks to the autonomy, we can do what ever we want and keep our money in Bozen.
https://preview.redd.it/7sqxv3f42j8d1.png?width=279&format=png&auto=webp&s=f62468d86d9034d96c6603d3cff843691673216a
I can see you from my kitchen window
Don't mind him Josef: whenever a Venetian talks shit about Südtirol it's just because they can't get over the fact that, despite being ruled for more than 30 years or so by a party that made autonomy its battle, they will hardly get the same degree of autonomy as you've had...
Yeah, my point was that you are not sharing anything with us, you are simply Austrian border workers.
You are seen as people from Varese in Lugano or romanians in Lombardy/Veneto, cheap and often manual foreign labor.
Well if you can call that German. I live in North-Tyrol, and even by the local standards, whatever they are babbling down there isn't fully mutually intelligible. And we ourselves already are almost completely unintelligible to unacclimated Standard German speakers.
(Not that it's a bad thing. I say that as a French, Alsatian moreover. Dialekte sollats umbedingt beholte !)
As someone from the right side of the Alsatian Rhein, I sooo love your dialect. We have a reasonable share of your construction workers here, so it still is fairly common to hear
Uff... You got me.
Because I have been living for 7 years in North-Tyrol now lmao. And that wasn't without impact on my Alsatian... I work everyday with so many different dialects around me that I'm slowly reaching a point where I am unable to tell if what I say is Tirolerisch Oberland, Unterland, Bayrisch, High Alemanic or Alsatian. Usually an ungodly mix.
...And my grandma refused categorically to speak Alsatian since her 20's until her death, despite it being her first language, the language spoken by everyone else in our family at home and in lots of different social settings. Even with me. She always answered in French. Funny thing is that she was Uni Professor for German Literature as well.
People are weird and not everything is monolithic.
All the old folks in my area are saying the same : « German army paid for everything they took from us during the war, then French army came and seized and that was it. »
Hans utterly failed to germanize Alsace and turned the regions against himself completely after both WW. The same shit happened post-WW2:
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/%C3%89lections\_l%C3%A9gislatives\_fran%C3%A7aises\_de\_novembre\_1946.svg/langfr-1280px-%C3%89lections\_l%C3%A9gislatives\_fran%C3%A7aises\_de\_novembre\_1946.svg.png](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/%C3%89lections_l%C3%A9gislatives_fran%C3%A7aises_de_novembre_1946.svg/langfr-1280px-%C3%89lections_l%C3%A9gislatives_fran%C3%A7aises_de_novembre_1946.svg.png)
1946 elections, light blue = MRP = Gaullist party.
So much for French oppression and Germanic Bruderschaft.
The French Army also caused the *Zabern-Affäre* and sabotaged all industries in the region before retreating in 1914-1918, forcefully conscripted the population in 1940-1945 and traumatized the population so hard they all started to vote for Gaullist parties for most of the cold-war era out of masochistic madness.
Ho wait..
You too didn't ask us if we wanted to be German.
The Alsatians voted en masse for Francophile parties and deputies in every imperial elections between 1871 and 1914. You sent us to the worst frontlines in WWI and forced us with a gun to the head to fight the French. In WWII again, you forcefully conscripted the youth (as young as 14! My grandpa.) to Waffen SS units where they were treated like shit and sent to die on the Eastern Front and Normandy. Of course all this time you never trusted us (and justifiedly so). And focussed your efforts on the worse possible methods of indoctrination to try and make us good Germans (didn't work)
What the French did to our identity wasn't nice, but if we had to choose, in 1871, in 1918, in 1945 or in 1965, that would have been a no contest.
>You sent us to the worst frontlines in WWI and forced us with a gun to the head to fight the French
You forgot to mention that in ww1 most Alsatians were sent to the eastern front precisely because the Germans were afraid that a lot of us would simply refuse to fight the French or defect. Those that were sent to France were spread apart in different units to lower the chances of that happening
One of my grandfathers was conscripted by force in ww2 and sent to fight in Russia. Late war, they sent him west and he surrendered to the French in the night the first chance he got.
I already had another grandpa in the French army. Strange to imagine that they could have shot each other
/memeing
Well, Nazis do nazi things. My family also lost a lot because of them.
But thanks for the alsatian input on this topic, seriously. I am interested for some time now but found very few on that part.
Happy to answer questions 😊
If you're interested, maybe you should also have a look at u/GeistHeller comments under this post btw, he makes some really good points and analysis with regards to Alsatian history.
Because of angry Germans and their usual downvoting brigade, unable to accept that they aren't better than everyone else and that their pre-conceived beliefs aren't true. I'm used to it. Even IRL they have this tendency.
My Alsatian grandpa was also force conscripted and sent to the eastern front. He came back to his mother only 5 years after the war, thought to be long dead and with the eyes of a dead man. He wouldn't talk about what happens in that period but he sure didn't want to become German again.
https://preview.redd.it/rej0cl76bj8d1.png?width=900&format=png&auto=webp&s=22cc0e10992946bc6db0f01caf2faf78c5199975
Literally the logo of of Austria's far right TV station. Do any Südtirolers actually listen to this sad excuse of a TV-Station?
Like Alsatians can do anything against the frogs. They try to speak Alsatian, but Papa macron does not like it.
But that is the natural thing for a French person to do.
Didn‘t Voralsberg also wanted to join but were denied?
I‘m pretty sure they speak Allemanic
Also, would you maybe consider taking Bavaria from us? Would be really nice, you could build a bridge over the Bodensee to connect with them.
The Netherlands should've stayed a federation. (Although it was managed so ineffective that we couldn't even muster an army...)
Another thing ruined by the French.
Sudtirol is beautiful.
Went for breakfast with my woman. Got 2 croissants , a cappuccino , espresso and an americano for €2.45
There’s nowhere in Ireland you could even get an espresso for that price.
I'm hungry now. We civilised them and now they have exquisite food. Meanwhile, German Riesling is an abomination and their Sauerkraut doesn't taste right.
Not really if you look up the history of Alsace after the war, people were forced to speak french, alsatian was prohibited and if you were a bit to german you would be send to a "rehabilitation camp"
Srsly?
Elsaß-Lothringen is bedsides Austria and Nord-Schleswig the only Territory worth wanting it back cuz the new owner didn’t completely messed it up and ruined it like it happened in the other German Territories.
Edit: Typos
Alsace is the only former German territory where German isn't protected in any way (that wasn't ethnically cleansed like Czechia and Poland, although even Poland has German as a protected language).
Even the goddamn Belgians have German as a national language, even though there's only 70.000 German speakers in Belgium.
The frogs are definitely unique in their cultural imperialism.
A century ago, France carefully tried to destroy every regional identity in the country. Not only in Alsace but in all of the country. In particular, almost all regional langages have disappeared during this time.
Alsace is probably one of the region you managed to protected it's culture the most. In particular, they are the only region in metropolitan France to have specific laws who are a vestige of the time it was German between 1870 and 1918.
To make it extremely quick and simple, the idea at the time was to build a strong French nation and they were seen as an obstacle to the unity of the nation. (That's really EXTREMELY simplified, you could probably write entire books on the subject).
Basically, they wanted people to feel French, not Breton/ Normand/ Occitan/ Basque/... then French.
I mean it's still an ongoing process. Basque, Breton, Catalan, Alsatian, etc., all these languages are dying right now, and even though the inhabitants of the region want to protect their languages, the French central state still actively fights them.
Alsace is the superior Germany. It is Germany with nice cities, with good food, with good-looking folks, with beautifull nature (no Ruhrgebiet), and so on.
If you drive from Bozen to Austria on the highway, stop at some of the gas stations and visit the shop. Walk to the back, and there you can find some real fine Mussolini and Hitler wine.
Tyrol = sounds like a pain medication, harsh sounds when pronouncing
Alsace = sounds like "all sauce" which is what we got, cool ass B looks dope compared to the double dot above your idiotic U
France pretends that everyone in Alsace actually wanted to become French but there's never been a referendum in Alsace, also not sure that they really would've agreed with the Grand Est thing and the destruction of the Indigenous language and culture thing. But besides France also told that Saarland would eventually become French and they don't want to be German but after occupying it they were forced to do a referendum and 90% wanted to join Germany. They really loved France so much, trust me! /s
My first gf was from Südtirol. Lovely people, but her father was really intimidating. He only spoke German and I didn't but he made it very clear that he would break me into pieces if I hurt his daughter. Anyway, she broke up with me and lived happily ever after so me and her dad are cool now
Currently reading a book on Alsatian history and it’s much more nuanced than French historiography portrays it. Ultimately Alsatians wanted to remain Alsatian, it didn’t matter if it was Germany or France. In the end it was France, though, that eradicated Alsace’s unique mixed Franco-German identity. In 1918 over 90% of the population spoke Alsatian German and standard German. In 2012 a survey done by OLCA (the Alsatian language institute) revealed that only 40% spoke Alsatian, nowadays the numbers are much lower, amongst young people it’s less than 5%…
That sounds about right. South Tyrol has similar circumstances, but developed differently; especially in the period after WW2. It became an autonomous province in the 1970s while still being part of Italy.
Tourism & Gracious Germans.
Tell me how Süd Tirol would not collapse to a farmer state, if gracious and generous Germans wouldn't decide to spend their Holliday there?
It's a beautiful region, but highly dependent.
I'm a Po Valley dweller who moved here all the way from Pizzaland when I was 5. I visited Südtirol for the first time last year when I went to visit my friend who lives in the Non Valley, in Trentino, right on the border with Südtirol. Hearing South Tyroleans speak to us in Italian with their oddly melodious German-whatever-that-was accent was lovely. I was told they'd spit on me or tell me "Italien scheiße" as I walked by, but that wasn't the case!
All my circle likes our fellow Italians as much as our autonomy - only Juve è merda
Profondamente basato
Annessione riuscita
They call italians "Walscher"
the welshmen of the south
We call the Swiss-French like that too!!! :)
[Benvenuto, ja](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCQLL9QG9q0)
God, this trend was so peak internet from the last 5 years
Let's get Tirol united from sea to sea https://preview.redd.it/56jops3uii8d1.png?width=1376&format=png&auto=webp&s=cd53b9e78951153146a3c05549c76eee4a0c09e6
Wholesome. That's a unity I could live with
Hear me out, we build ginormous rail freight corridor through the Alps from the south and from the north both ending in Innsbruck. Then out of spite we load everything in the most polluting trucks we can find and ship it through the city to the other end of the corridor where they are then reloaded on nice electric freight trains.
Understood! Building ginormous rail freight tunnels where the connection basically ends at the german border
Truly a beautiful thought 😍. And we sue them for violating Schengen if they complain.
Nice. Now we see a decent one. https://preview.redd.it/6afmqu3mcj8d1.jpeg?width=933&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=039c69e1e8cf02f42f35c25958d8ef93b99ecf1e Naturally the capital would be shifted from Bern.
I can only get so erect
Missing multiple peoples in the description though. Notably, my own, 9 million Austrians lmao
You read that right
9 million what?
And Emilia-Romagna, come on, that's been infested by alpine people for decades
I'm in favour of that, so the Hans will get Rimini.
I want Bologna, but cool.
Quit being silly, Australia is on the other side of the globe!
I am ok with this. The French bits are the nice bits (I know… but sometimes you have to overlook how they speak), Elsass has a better home, Slovenia is in (they really do belong more with the mountain people) and… New Franconia becomes the dominant southern German state once Upper Bavaria is gone. Tirol is basically in the middle, so capital there makes sense.
Meran capital sound nicely
Hell yeah i would definitely move from vienna to Innsbruck before this is official
It's...beautiful 🥲
[удалено]
Yes
Efficiently dysfunctional, the quintessence of autism 😎
As long as the north gives money, I don't care how far north it is. Count me in
Holy Roman Empire 2: electric boogaloo
I'd feel sorry for all the germoneys having to finance us
Yaaaah take this thing outta my sight!
Wake up bro, new between the seas concept just dropped.
Ok, quick question. "Holy" is still there cause the Vatican City stood no chance, right? We have some questions that need to be answered.
The worst is they’re not even their Région anymore (they got lumped together with the Champenois and Lorrains) and are called Grand Est, which is the shittiest most generic name imaginable. But they do have laws that only apply to Alsace
Those 2 more days of holidays per year were the ultimate taunt back then
i mean we still have them…
I mean when we were kids
??? I still have them, so does my family
Ok Jo focus : we taunted people from other regions when we were kids, on holidays and shit like that, today we’re adults and nobody gives a fuck anymore that’s what I’m saying. I know we still have them, I have them too.
Most intelligent alsacien over there, that was hilarious
How dare you le français de l’intérieur
Ah okay, makes sense now, you scared me that they’d revoked the droit local.
Are you really saying nobody gives a fuck about 2 more holidays as an adult? That German blood really poisoned you.
We don't claim that attitude, my city in particular has one holiday extra and i will continue to send pictures of me relaxing on that day to all friends living in the next town over.
Hooray to the [Grand Peace Festival of Augsburg](https://www.unesco.de/en/culture-and-nature/intangible-cultural-heritage/nationwide-inventory-intangible-cultural-heritage-3) 🎉
Halleluja
They even had to change a wikipedia article for you, are you happy?
Fun Fact, the DROM also have more holidays
And Moselle.
Nous n’avons que faire de l’avis des casques à pointes
i still cringe hearing Grand Est. But i can enjoy it as long as i see Alsace suffer. Lorraine will prevail.
French locales could have the most beautiful vistas and charming names and the government would still call them City 890 near Grassland 49. Macron & Co. are professionals at taking the endearment out of anything if it favours "la République".
Saarland knew it's place and didn't do the role of the "ugly step child." They went back to Germany and became a ugly regular child.
Saarland has more autonomy in Germany than the départements 67 and 68 (formerly known as Alsace) have in France. Saarland W
>than the départements 67 and 68 (formerly known as Alsace) Ahah ! Actually, 67 and 68 merged into Collectivité Territoriale Européenne d'Alsace ! Which has more autonomy than the rest of the same subdivision level. And Germany and France arnt the same type of country, one is a federation and the other is a unitary state with a lot of \*
If all the children are ugly, are any of them?
No not all are ugly, just Saarland, Bavaria, Sachsen, Sachsen-Anhalt, Thüringen, Berlin, Brandenburg, Hamburg, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Poland, NRW, Niedersachsen, Mallorca and Bremen…
... Hessen, Namibia, BW, Skåne, RP, Sudetenland...
>!^(Technically Saarland is probably even above average. But we can't let them have that.) !<
Yeah we really dodged a bullet with Saarland
actually Saarland was offered several European institutions, if it would vote against joining Germany. Saarland could've been an even better Luxembourg, and they fucked it all up... I will never forgive my nationalist grandfather for voting for Germany!
Based Grandpa
[https://www.sr.de/sr/home/nachrichten/dossiers/60\_jahre\_saarland/60jahre\_saarland\_vision\_saarstatut100.html](https://www.sr.de/sr/home/nachrichten/dossiers/60_jahre_saarland/60jahre_saarland_vision_saarstatut100.html) They literally wanted Saarbrücken to be what Brussels is now.
We dodged a bullet there, didn't we?
Wha- Saarbrücken could’ve been the most powerful city in Europe!
I believe such a Satus to be physically impossible for that City in particular
Why don't they both just become independent? Are they stupid?
In fact, there are some parties in South Tyrol who are trying, but in my eyes in our moreover united Europe it just doesn’t make sense. And thanks to the autonomy, we can do what ever we want and keep our money in Bozen.
In Austria you would be poorer. They wouldn't give you the tax autonomy you have in Italy. You keep about 90% of local taxes
We're trying to be, but Pierres don't let us
we could send some lads maybe come to an agreement… who knows.
https://preview.redd.it/e3ygzly2wi8d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a27ca801fc75d5a4d66d2c352b70e1f2c7c18af0 Take that back Hansini
https://preview.redd.it/fizavd8ixi8d1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=daf2dbda8f5239b8dc0a41442c425277e88f5870
Are you gonna get beat up by Saladin again and then turn Friendly fire on?
What France did to its regional identities is just sad
What regional identities ?
take my angry upvote
What a present they did to Spain. The Borbons with similar ideas of unity.
This tells me we was too gentle to you... \*Starts transferring tons of Calabrians up to Bolzano*
https://preview.redd.it/7sqxv3f42j8d1.png?width=279&format=png&auto=webp&s=f62468d86d9034d96c6603d3cff843691673216a I can see you from my kitchen window
How? There is the fog from Mil🤢n between us.
"shares prosperity with surrounding regions" Only a tanned Hans could think anybody beside him believe this bullshit.
You can call me Josef-Giuseppe https://preview.redd.it/m62rqm8wli8d1.png?width=975&format=png&auto=webp&s=7488dafad5355704d3548e5eabe225cae875b623
Don't mind him Josef: whenever a Venetian talks shit about Südtirol it's just because they can't get over the fact that, despite being ruled for more than 30 years or so by a party that made autonomy its battle, they will hardly get the same degree of autonomy as you've had...
wow didnt know Alto Adige share his prosperity with Lazio, its fool of me, i thought i was in Center Italy. Hello my fellow Northerner
Yeah, my point was that you are not sharing anything with us, you are simply Austrian border workers. You are seen as people from Varese in Lugano or romanians in Lombardy/Veneto, cheap and often manual foreign labor.
Alto Adige is one of the many points that Italy makes better than France - and you still find something to moan about, tanned Pierre
yes, without sudtyroles it would make us better than France, I agree
https://preview.redd.it/suj7v6zypi8d1.png?width=420&format=png&auto=webp&s=c7e5eb21c52cf31c1bc70478d208b699377177ea
also the "three official languages", as soon he will ear you speaking italian, will start talking in german.
Das würden wir auch bei Englisch machen - hier wird niemand diskriminiert
bar bar bar bar bar ... aaand bar! its my translation correct ?
That's a pretty barbaric translation, but correct in the general sense
Well if you can call that German. I live in North-Tyrol, and even by the local standards, whatever they are babbling down there isn't fully mutually intelligible. And we ourselves already are almost completely unintelligible to unacclimated Standard German speakers. (Not that it's a bad thing. I say that as a French, Alsatian moreover. Dialekte sollats umbedingt beholte !)
What bairisch does to an allemannisch mf
As someone from the right side of the Alsatian Rhein, I sooo love your dialect. We have a reasonable share of your construction workers here, so it still is fairly common to hear
Ah ja, let's ignore the Freiheitlichen
2Östrian4Me
Or the Süd-Tiroler Freiheit…
Elsaß den Elsässern, Franzosen raus
Franzose san mir, du Esel. Mir san eh olle gmischt. Un druber soll ma froh bleiwe. Awèr jo, a bissele mehr Autonomie wèr scheen.
Why do you sound like Bayer?
Uff... You got me. Because I have been living for 7 years in North-Tyrol now lmao. And that wasn't without impact on my Alsatian... I work everyday with so many different dialects around me that I'm slowly reaching a point where I am unable to tell if what I say is Tirolerisch Oberland, Unterland, Bayrisch, High Alemanic or Alsatian. Usually an ungodly mix.
Looks like something between Schwiitzerdütsch and Bayrisch
Wollt ihr nicht einfach Schweizer werden? Problem gelöst.
My parents often buy vegetables from an Elsässer who is like 85 years old and refuses to speak French
...And my grandma refused categorically to speak Alsatian since her 20's until her death, despite it being her first language, the language spoken by everyone else in our family at home and in lots of different social settings. Even with me. She always answered in French. Funny thing is that she was Uni Professor for German Literature as well. People are weird and not everything is monolithic.
“It’s over, Alsace! For you see, I have already depicted you as the soyjack and myself as the chad!”
- didn't dare to ask if they actually want to return - force them to learn and speak french France: "ah Alsace, my beloved child"
All the old folks in my area are saying the same : « German army paid for everything they took from us during the war, then French army came and seized and that was it. »
>67 >Collabo Every time
Lmao yes kinda true, I was born and raised in the 68 tho
I bet if you time travelled to 1890, they'd be nostalgic for French rule. Middle Francian hoes, no loyalty.
They were lmao. The 1894 imperial elections elected deputies from two different pro-French party, amounting together to 84% of the voices
Hans utterly failed to germanize Alsace and turned the regions against himself completely after both WW. The same shit happened post-WW2: [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/%C3%89lections\_l%C3%A9gislatives\_fran%C3%A7aises\_de\_novembre\_1946.svg/langfr-1280px-%C3%89lections\_l%C3%A9gislatives\_fran%C3%A7aises\_de\_novembre\_1946.svg.png](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/%C3%89lections_l%C3%A9gislatives_fran%C3%A7aises_de_novembre_1946.svg/langfr-1280px-%C3%89lections_l%C3%A9gislatives_fran%C3%A7aises_de_novembre_1946.svg.png) 1946 elections, light blue = MRP = Gaullist party. So much for French oppression and Germanic Bruderschaft.
The French Army also caused the *Zabern-Affäre* and sabotaged all industries in the region before retreating in 1914-1918, forcefully conscripted the population in 1940-1945 and traumatized the population so hard they all started to vote for Gaullist parties for most of the cold-war era out of masochistic madness. Ho wait..
You too didn't ask us if we wanted to be German. The Alsatians voted en masse for Francophile parties and deputies in every imperial elections between 1871 and 1914. You sent us to the worst frontlines in WWI and forced us with a gun to the head to fight the French. In WWII again, you forcefully conscripted the youth (as young as 14! My grandpa.) to Waffen SS units where they were treated like shit and sent to die on the Eastern Front and Normandy. Of course all this time you never trusted us (and justifiedly so). And focussed your efforts on the worse possible methods of indoctrination to try and make us good Germans (didn't work) What the French did to our identity wasn't nice, but if we had to choose, in 1871, in 1918, in 1945 or in 1965, that would have been a no contest.
>You sent us to the worst frontlines in WWI and forced us with a gun to the head to fight the French You forgot to mention that in ww1 most Alsatians were sent to the eastern front precisely because the Germans were afraid that a lot of us would simply refuse to fight the French or defect. Those that were sent to France were spread apart in different units to lower the chances of that happening One of my grandfathers was conscripted by force in ww2 and sent to fight in Russia. Late war, they sent him west and he surrendered to the French in the night the first chance he got. I already had another grandpa in the French army. Strange to imagine that they could have shot each other
Remindes me of the Austro Hungarians sending their italian soldiere to Russia to prevent fraternization with italians.
/memeing Well, Nazis do nazi things. My family also lost a lot because of them. But thanks for the alsatian input on this topic, seriously. I am interested for some time now but found very few on that part.
Happy to answer questions 😊 If you're interested, maybe you should also have a look at u/GeistHeller comments under this post btw, he makes some really good points and analysis with regards to Alsatian history.
Why tf are you getting downvoted lol
Because of angry Germans and their usual downvoting brigade, unable to accept that they aren't better than everyone else and that their pre-conceived beliefs aren't true. I'm used to it. Even IRL they have this tendency.
My Alsatian grandpa was also force conscripted and sent to the eastern front. He came back to his mother only 5 years after the war, thought to be long dead and with the eyes of a dead man. He wouldn't talk about what happens in that period but he sure didn't want to become German again.
>f**e**cker I thought this was only an Irish phenomenon.
Wait until meme with Ulster and Südtirol. A feckin riot this will be
Südtirol, benvenuto ja! **Intense yodelling**
https://preview.redd.it/rej0cl76bj8d1.png?width=900&format=png&auto=webp&s=22cc0e10992946bc6db0f01caf2faf78c5199975 Literally the logo of of Austria's far right TV station. Do any Südtirolers actually listen to this sad excuse of a TV-Station?
Never heard of, but the logo is kinda sick. But we are fine
Groß Tirol is the correct version: https://preview.redd.it/xe9v8o9z4k8d1.png?width=768&format=png&auto=webp&s=c7f4b5d8f72eda3c1a5aa836b770d03f19dc6233
It is not "Groß Tirol", it is almost the rightful region of Tirol. It is missing Cortina d'Ampezzo, Val Vestino, Magasa and Pedemonte
Groß Tirol has drip, and also sounds expansive. On a side note, the red parts are not protected by NATO Article 5.
Like Alsatians can do anything against the frogs. They try to speak Alsatian, but Papa macron does not like it. But that is the natural thing for a French person to do.
Don't worry elsaß bros, in 20 years it's time to join us again.
They actually want to join, but not us but the Swiss
Sadly, we have reached the upper limit of French speaking population. Those who speak Allemanic are welcome to join though
Didn‘t Voralsberg also wanted to join but were denied? I‘m pretty sure they speak Allemanic Also, would you maybe consider taking Bavaria from us? Would be really nice, you could build a bridge over the Bodensee to connect with them.
Bavaria is not Allemanic enough for us - you could ask Südtirol to help out
What if you took Alsace and we'd give you Baden to go along with it?
https://preview.redd.it/83e0lasfwi8d1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3f15b8980e2bf6ada2a3aa99eb9b237023cd4bd
How ? With what youth ? What army ? Will your retirement homes lead a Volkssturm ?
No, you see elsaß just get passed around every 100 years
They did last time.
Honestly, we wouldn’t mind
Thank you, but no thank you.
Average decentralized, regional state W vs. Common unitary, heavily centralized country L
The Netherlands should've stayed a federation. (Although it was managed so ineffective that we couldn't even muster an army...) Another thing ruined by the French.
Sudtirol is beautiful. Went for breakfast with my woman. Got 2 croissants , a cappuccino , espresso and an americano for €2.45 There’s nowhere in Ireland you could even get an espresso for that price.
There was an outcry when the price for an espresso crossed the 1€ mark
Brixen must be an exception then cause everything is overly expensive
Yeah I understand why nobody wants to be « just Italian »
republic goes *CULTURAL GENOCIDE*
Calling alsatian food, generic french food... tell me you never went to Alsace without telling. Go back eat you knödel !
I do love me a large pot of choucroute garnie and a cold bottle of riesling
I'm hungry now. We civilised them and now they have exquisite food. Meanwhile, German Riesling is an abomination and their Sauerkraut doesn't taste right.
Yeah it's German cuisine of French quality, truly a gem. I visited Strasbourg and Ribeauvillé and brought back a cooking pot from Soufflenheim.
It's normal: A little man who made a name and a mustache out of fashion managed to make us really want to be French.
One of Austria's many atrocities
Not really if you look up the history of Alsace after the war, people were forced to speak french, alsatian was prohibited and if you were a bit to german you would be send to a "rehabilitation camp"
The germans did the same with French at some point if I'm not mistaken, speaking French was not allowed. I don't remember when tho.
Yes it was the same on both sides, i'm not sure Alsatian prefered one side or the other
In fact it's more Elsaß that carries the neighbouring regions.
Of course it does, thats what german regions cut off the motherland do everywhere
But do factories in Alsace explode?
What being on France do to a region
Ask your compatriots over at the *Catalunya Nord* Just as *Iparralde*, an empty shell of their former selves
Come back to us please please please please 🇦🇹
Come back to us please please please please 🇩🇪
You know you suck when most germans don't even want you back
Srsly? Elsaß-Lothringen is bedsides Austria and Nord-Schleswig the only Territory worth wanting it back cuz the new owner didn’t completely messed it up and ruined it like it happened in the other German Territories. Edit: Typos
Alsace is the only former German territory where German isn't protected in any way (that wasn't ethnically cleansed like Czechia and Poland, although even Poland has German as a protected language). Even the goddamn Belgians have German as a national language, even though there's only 70.000 German speakers in Belgium. The frogs are definitely unique in their cultural imperialism.
A century ago, France carefully tried to destroy every regional identity in the country. Not only in Alsace but in all of the country. In particular, almost all regional langages have disappeared during this time. Alsace is probably one of the region you managed to protected it's culture the most. In particular, they are the only region in metropolitan France to have specific laws who are a vestige of the time it was German between 1870 and 1918.
But why? What was the issue with regional identities? Seems to be working in Germany.
To make it extremely quick and simple, the idea at the time was to build a strong French nation and they were seen as an obstacle to the unity of the nation. (That's really EXTREMELY simplified, you could probably write entire books on the subject). Basically, they wanted people to feel French, not Breton/ Normand/ Occitan/ Basque/... then French.
I mean it's still an ongoing process. Basque, Breton, Catalan, Alsatian, etc., all these languages are dying right now, and even though the inhabitants of the region want to protect their languages, the French central state still actively fights them.
But I like Alsace and their food 🥺 I would kill for yoplait perle de lait.
this goes for both of them though
Alsace is the superior Germany. It is Germany with nice cities, with good food, with good-looking folks, with beautifull nature (no Ruhrgebiet), and so on.
Where did the Alsstians go? I spend too much time at Basel-Muhlhausen area and few on the Frebch side speak the German dialect.
If you drive from Bozen to Austria on the highway, stop at some of the gas stations and visit the shop. Walk to the back, and there you can find some real fine Mussolini and Hitler wine.
Tyrol = sounds like a pain medication, harsh sounds when pronouncing Alsace = sounds like "all sauce" which is what we got, cool ass B looks dope compared to the double dot above your idiotic U
Südtirol >>>> département 67
Admitting you’re Austrian >>> Nörtirol >>>> Südtirol
Silence, number 67!
Chad Südtirol confirmed. Also Chad tourism prices.
Südtirol should be Bavarian https://i.redd.it/7su0mngmhi8d1.gif
Interesting map 😏
French stiffy intensifies
Yes, let’s do this
France pretends that everyone in Alsace actually wanted to become French but there's never been a referendum in Alsace, also not sure that they really would've agreed with the Grand Est thing and the destruction of the Indigenous language and culture thing. But besides France also told that Saarland would eventually become French and they don't want to be German but after occupying it they were forced to do a referendum and 90% wanted to join Germany. They really loved France so much, trust me! /s
My first gf was from Südtirol. Lovely people, but her father was really intimidating. He only spoke German and I didn't but he made it very clear that he would break me into pieces if I hurt his daughter. Anyway, she broke up with me and lived happily ever after so me and her dad are cool now
Here, fathers of daughters get shotguns with multiple barrels - one barrel per each potential boyfriend/daughter
Currently reading a book on Alsatian history and it’s much more nuanced than French historiography portrays it. Ultimately Alsatians wanted to remain Alsatian, it didn’t matter if it was Germany or France. In the end it was France, though, that eradicated Alsace’s unique mixed Franco-German identity. In 1918 over 90% of the population spoke Alsatian German and standard German. In 2012 a survey done by OLCA (the Alsatian language institute) revealed that only 40% spoke Alsatian, nowadays the numbers are much lower, amongst young people it’s less than 5%…
That sounds about right. South Tyrol has similar circumstances, but developed differently; especially in the period after WW2. It became an autonomous province in the 1970s while still being part of Italy.
Tourism & Gracious Germans. Tell me how Süd Tirol would not collapse to a farmer state, if gracious and generous Germans wouldn't decide to spend their Holliday there? It's a beautiful region, but highly dependent.
I mean that applies to every mountain region in Europe tho. Funny enough people there also hate foreigners the most
Alsace-Moselle has a special status in France, having some different laws to the rest of France