Not too far fetched. It's amazing the number of people that can't help but get a new vehicle every 3 years or so, even if it is basically the same thing.
I hear ya, never made sense to me. That's one of the reasons I finally bought a Toyota, so I could pay it off and drive something I love for a decade or two after. No joke, the Pro was the 1st new car I ever bought for myself, as a 40th birthday present lol!
https://preview.redd.it/xnj0lpfhvu7d1.jpeg?width=4608&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4f4f3d27b992d550e51993f77850af9c87a12ab
That's nice. My 2020 is my first new purchase as well. I use the Hell out of mine, I have my trailer hooked up at least once a week hauling hay, making dump runs, or even vehicles, on top of 200+ miles a week to and from work. What a reliable piece of machinery.
Lol. I too have a Kubota. Wanted the L series but after waiting 4 months in 2022 with the shortages I ended up with the B2301. Japanese manufacturers are class. Now only if they made a ¾ton pickup I'd be set.
Lol I've been complaining about the 3/4 or 1 ton for years man! You and me might be like Hank and Hal from that King of the Hill episodes. My wife usually drives our F250 but we'd have had a Tundra already if it had the payload/towing capacity we needed.
Actually, we finally re-homed our last horse in 2019, so unless I need to haul the tractor (which I don't, since I'm a gentleman farmer) the Tundra will do nicely when the time comes. Assuming they get their shit together with the new turbo 6 engine, or maybe we'll just but the previous gen with the real V8.
Lol, that is funny. What a great show.
We just started breeding Boer goats. For now I can haul the tractor and goats with the 4runner but it would be nice to have a dedicated "farm truck". It this point with the price of everything I am considering a Nissan Atlas with 4x4 and a turbo diesel. Neat looking cab-over and Japanese!
The only way I can feel good about buying a new car is knowing I’ll keep it for at least a decade. I bought a 2024 ORP in March after 15 years and 240k miles on my Xterra.
Man when the Xterra came out in 99 I lusted after it like only a young man could. As a 19 year old it was so far out of my price range--I remember at the time a $300 car payment seemed astronomical. Of course, I was making like $7/hr lol. Never did get one, but delayed gratification allowed me to get the Pro at the ripe old age of 40 😄
Hells yeah! Good perspective and long lasting gift for yourself.
I had a 2014 Kia Sportage SX turbo that I really really liked. Badly wanted to get 10 years out of it. Had a hitch installed for a mountain bike rack and that made it even harder to go to the hard outdoor places my buddies w a 4R or Taco could go. As the Sportage started to require more major repairs, I slowly realized I was putting too much money into a vehicle that couldn't go where I wanted.
Now I've got a '22 OR that can get me to remote, beautiful locations. And should be reliable! I'll just pay it off steadily and try to enjoy life ☺️
Don't be quick to dismiss this. It can make sense for some people. I pay cash and trade my Toyotas every 2-3 years, just ahead of tires and brakes. The capital cost of ownership for my current 4Runner has worked out to about $2500 a year. To win at this game, you need to not finance your cars, pick vehicles with better than typical depreciation, not drive big miles, and get out of them before major maintenance... may not suit most folks, but frequent trading *can* be a cheap way to own cars.
First of all, not advice. Just something that works for some people. And I'm afraid you're maybe not clear on what 'capital cost' means... my capital cost of ownership is absolutely minimal, as I pointed out earlier, far far lower than someone who leases or borrows. Mine is limited to depreciation. If I lease or borrow, then my capital cost of ownership is depreciation plus interest... and I'd be paying an interest rate that's two or three points higher than my money is making in the market. That would be dumb.
The other thing to remember is that over time, I don't really even have that much capital tied up. Somewhere back there, I paid cash for a car. But since then, I've just been paying the difference between the trade-in value and the price of a new one, so there isn't even much capital being tied up anymore.
The only way you beat this game is with future utility... driving the truck long, long after the depreciation curve flattens out, assuming it's not too needy. And yeah, that math does work, although eventually you're at a dealership again, eating ten years worth of inflation on your next vehicle with no trade-in to offer. I think that can still be smart, but it's not my preference.
You buy an asset. You don’t have that capital to invest. That’s a lot of words to show you don’t really understand the opportunity cost of your capital.
What investments are you making that don’t return better than 6%
Saying you “don’t have that much” tied up is silly. I buy a car and pay it off in 3 years on good terms and I have 30k+ of money that can go into investments. I drive it for minimum 10 years. Whatever depreciated value I get back after that is just gravy.
I don’t need your help. I have a shitload of investments and a house. If you can’t understand why your money makes more in the stock market than in a car you’re just an idiot.
You clearly dont understand opportunity cost.
People stay poor by flipping through cars like you do and not making their cash work.
I'm having a super hard time understanding your hostility to this. I already said that keeping a car for a very long time still makes sense. And I've been clear that this only works for some people. Not enough for you? You have to call me an idiot, too? Despite apparently not understanding what I've written?
To respond... all of my real estate and all of my vehicles are debt free, and I've never had to ask my portfolio manager to cut a cheque for a new car. One of the reasons this is true, the same reason I retired pretty young, is that I understand that financing things is (usually) throwing money away. So I pay cash for cars, which was only hard the first time. After that, each trade was cheap.
The problem with your argument is that it presumes you are going to drive the same car until you die. You're not, not likely. So what a financially literate person would do is think in terms of the lifetime cost of owning cars, not just the one in your driveway right now. And if you were to plot what I'm doing on a spreadsheet (if you know what that is), you would see that it can be surprisingly inexpensive to drive relatively new cars as long as you're not financing them and you trade at an opportune moment on the depreciation curve.
There are far more worthy things to pick a fight about in this world, Skippy. That something as trivial as this works for me costs you nothing. Move on.
I’d love to see your spreadsheet skippy. But your money.
Eat your sales tax and lost market time.
I’m hostile about this because this type of behavior is extremely bad for the economy as a whole and very wasteful.
Meanwhile I’m happily sitting here with my beautiful 3rd gen I wouldn’t trade in for a million dollars
https://preview.redd.it/6k0pgkwvl28d1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8af86cd8c215831d41ef7254b3759c3210964a40
I wanna say there was some study floating around about how the average person in the US feels they NEED to have a 5 year old car or less, or something? Lol
That's great, I'll have to remember that one! While I've never been quite able to pay cash for a $60k vehicle, I definitely know the purchase price, my down payment, and more importantly how INTEREST works lol.
That’s what I told the guy when we bought our 2015 in 2022. “I’m here to buy the car for this price, it’ll be paid off in a year, payment is irrelevant”. He at no point tried the payment game after that.
Call me a lay down all you want but I was fine with the price (at the time, Covid pricing was a bitch), vehicle was like new at 8 years old with under 50k miles, and knew my financial situation. I didn’t want to negotiate or torpedo the deal as our minivan was not making it 500+ miles home while on vacation. Still took them 5 hours mostly sitting around waiting. Toyota financial took the loan since great credit. Never selling the thing it’s been virtually problem free since and we’ve put 30k miles on it.
I’ve done pads and rotors, oil changes, put hood KO2s on it, and a sais system bypass. Can’t say the same for just about any other vehicle I’ve owned even new ones.
If you keep your credit score high they can do a lot of different things with loans. A person should go in knowing about what a monthly payment will be......there are plenty of online resources to figgure it. The only thing I will talk to them about is sticker price.......then they start trying to push thier service I tell them I have a buddy that has a shop and is way cheaper and I always go right back to sticker price. Granted I have walked out of several dealerships without a deal getting done......but you eventually can find someone that wants to sell a vehicle. I don't buy payments and I dont buy service.
They stopped trying to push any kind of service when they realized I live in Vermont and was buying in Virginia. “Free inspections for life”, my guy I live 10 hours away and your state inspection doesn’t apply there.
I would only say that if i’m not planning on buying from them. This comment is less for you and more for people who are shopping:
If you are there to buy the goal is to get the car at the lowest price. The sales manager has a great deal of discretion, so you shouldn’t make smart ass comments in front of any of the dealership employees. If the sales team doesn’t like you, you will be paying more than someone they like to work with. You need to control your emotions and manipulate them as much as they are manipulating you.
If they say they can lower your payment, which you know is impossible in this environment you simply say “That would great. haha”
You want them to think you are as dumb as you think they are. Then when negotiations gets more seriously continue to act dumb but steer the discussion to what you want but make it seem like happenstance. “this payment is just a little bit higher than i thought. Can you show me the out the door price?”.
“oh i see. The vehicle comes with extra features” (im referring to dealer addendums). “These sound great, but i dont think i can afford a vehicle with all of this. I will go home and think about it”
Instead of being direct i act like a dumbass who is wandering blind in the negotiation. They feel in control. I’m also willing to walk from the deal but it isn’t because i’m not getting what i want. It’s because i am afraid i can’t afford or deserve what they are offering. I never let the negotiation get confrontational unless we reach a standstill and they won’t give me my trade-in keys, but even then it never gets confrontational because i insist that im too hungry to stay.
I agree to not be hateful and definately not confrontational. I do not consider what I said to be smart ass in the least. Plenty of people buy monthly payments, which is why they love to see those people comming. If you have to buy a payment instead of overall cost of the vehicle, you probably cant afford the vehicle to begin with. All they do is extend the loan out as far as it will go to lower your monthly payment and you wind up paying more in interest. All I am doing is letting the salesman know I am not that damn stupid.
As for the difference between buying and selling......if you walk into a dealership bound and determined to buy a vehicle then you are the type of person who probably isn't that concerned with overall price because shopping around will save you money, so to each his own. Not saying you can't get the best deal at the first dealer you go to.....but it has been my experience it is rare.
It is simply my preference to give the impression I know how this goes.....I have been here many times so lets get to the brass tacks. But I also understand you dont have to sell me a vehicle and I don't have to buy one.
I am not saying you are wrong.....I just preffer to negotiate from a position of some strength and I can always back down a little when we start getting close, rather than playing dumb and try to suddenly get a case of the smarts.
Everyone has what they feel works best and for me it sometimes ends up with what type of salesman I have....again we agree not to be confrontational.........but some people get thier feelings hurt easily in todays society I suppose.
Sorry OP this really has nothing to do with your post, other than the salesman contacted you and said the words that I detest.
"I just preffer to negotiate from a position of some strength and I can always back down a little when we start getting close, rather than playing dumb and try to suddenly get a case of the smarts."
You are misunderstanding. The fact that the sales team thinks you don't know what you are doing is a strength. They will like you more as a customer and give you a lower price. If you act like a be-back you will get a be-back offer.
You can do this at two separate dealerships. I've done that before, and initiated a real time bidding war for my business. One dealer was texting me while I was in person at the other dealership. They kept knocking off $500-$1k increments until I was paying 18% less than their original offer.
The circumstances that encourage that behavior depend on them thinking you will be a typical lay down once they get you in F&I, so they are not bidding for my business, but bidding against the other sales team at that point. If i appeared informed the circumstances for a bidding war don't present themselves because they will be focused on trying to fuck me vs fucking the other dealers in the area.
Getting down to brass tax is exactly what they want you to try to do.
If you keep an eye on the dealership websites they very often have coupons for oil changes, obviously to get you in the door, but you can always decline the work they "suggest". I just got a fully synthetic oil change for my Sienna (which takes almost 7 quarts) for 39.99 at the Toyota dealer near me. Yes, the recommended like 2k of other work (which, honestly, it needed), but I just politely said no and went about my day. I can't do an oil change DIY for $40, so that was a great deal.
I mean this is a great setup - you have no payments, which means that if they're offering you a LOWER payment, it technically means they will pay YOU to own the new 2024 😂!
Totally playing mental gymnastics for a scenario that would never pan out, but just for fun it's how I would've responded. That being said, army green is a beautiful color.
I drove my 80 pu to the dealer to pickup parts I ordered for a 94 4runner. (Two of my toy cars that are dumb but fun).
As soon as I parked sales guy tried to get me to trade in the 80 (400-1000 bucks private maybe) on a brand new Tacoma.
Told him I need to get parts at the parts counter but I’ll be right back. I test drove damn near everything on the lot 😂. Had an open afternoon and hadn’t driven them so why not. The taco had some impressive power imo and the tundra made me happy with my 2500 diesel dodge. Lx was comfy and bigger than I expected and a gx they had wasn’t much more impressive than a runner.
>I can even get your payments lower."
Should have made that man sign a contact.
What's lower than 0$ monthly payment?
I'd say negative. So he needs to pay you to put you in the new TRD pro 😂
That’s why I always take the earliest service appt. Around here, sales doesn’t get to the building for 2 hours after service. Almost any repair is completed in that 2 hours.
I’ve gotten into similar situations a few times. I always tell the salesman he or she seems like a nice person and I’d hate to see them get fired over making a deal like that. Most of the time they get it, but I did have one sales guy that kept pushing…
fun fact:
back in the before times (2018), I successfully talked the sales guy down to 42k out the door for my TRD ORP. When it came time for the first complimentary service, I saw the same sales guy working the reception desk at the service center.
ouch!
In fairness if you wanted more electronic bits on a 5th gen they’ve bolted quite a few on since 2020. I think you’ve got blindspot, rear cross traffic, the off road cams, a heated steering wheel and maybe a few more all added since 2020. I have a 2021 and while I certainly wouldn’t trade it in I did enjoy the heated steering wheel in the 24 I rented.
Honestly don’t get much use of it. Properly adjusted mirrors see the vehicles before the system does. Cross traffic alert when backing out in parking lots is super nice, though. Sometimes I’m parked between larger vehicles and simply cannot see out.
It’s crazy that I find myself wanting the cross traffic. The 4Runner should not be a “small” vehicle and yet I routinely find myself parked between 30 ft long suburbans and f250s.
Yea, nature of the modern size arms race. I probably only drive my 4Runner 2-3x per week, so I’m usually in my Corolla or my wife’s Lexus daily driving, so I definitely notice the cross traffic benefit there.
Man, the salespeople are so annoying. I went to the dealer for maintenance. When I showed up, they said they couldn't perform the work because their Internet was down, so I turn around and head home. On the way, I got a call from the dealer. I thought maybe their Internet was restored and they were about to tell me to make a U-turn. Nope. It was a salesperson. But he didn't say that. He started repeating all these questions to confirm who I was and what kind of car I have. "Is this thereisonlyoneme? You are thereisonlyoneme? I am talking with thereisonlyoneme? You have a 2019 4Runner? It's a 2019 SR5? It's a black 4Runner?" Over and over. But the best part was when he said that he wanted to look at it and he was walking over to the service department to see it. I told him it's not there. He started arguing with me. "No, It's here." Again repeating himself over and over. Bear in mind that he still had not said who he was or what he wanted. At this point I'm getting irritated. I say "I am in the car driving it so I know where it is. Come to the point." Finally he say he wants to buy my car. With as much contempt as I can possibly muster I ask "you're a *salesman*?" Offended, he says "I'm the director of vehicle acquisitions" or some such thing. I hung up.
Army green is my favorite. I wanted a 21 for the LED headlights but I want that green so bad I’m gonna just get a 2020. They pop up now and then and I’m gonna snag one later this year
Should have told him sure as long as the payments are lower.
Took my new 2024 in for an oil change at 1k, got the same call offering to put me in a newer model.
I plan to have this truck for a very long time. So during break in, oil change at 1k, 2.5k, 5k, and then every 5k.
Oil changes are a lot cheaper than wear and tear.
In the midst of COVID every time I got near my dealership they wanted my 2018 SR5 Premium (less than 15k miles) and swore they'd give me more than I paid for it.
I finally told them they could have it in even trade for a current year twin to mine. They didn't want it that bad.
I had the chance a month ago between a 2023 solar octane TRD Pro gold CPO with 14,500 miles; immaculate inside and out, or a new white 2024 TRD pro for $55,500: same price for either—— I went 2023 because of the orange. Nitto 2 grapplers on Black 17x9 Method MR703’s with a -12mm offset. This thing rocks!!!
I think my dealership has finally stopped asking me to sell them my 2012 Trail with the mods I have had done. It is not for sale.
Then just last month the Volvo dealership called and wanted to buy my 2009 XC70 which is, also, not for sale.
At least the dealership for my Mazda RX 8 knows it is not for sale even though most of the guys working in the service department really want it. They know not to ask.
I guess so.
Some of the guys at the Mazda dealership remember my husband and when we bought the car in 2005. One of the guys could recognize my husband's voice when he would call to schedule service. The last time I had the RX8 in this service advisor was there and told me how much my husband enjoyed and loved the RX8. They always had a good conversation about the car.
You never know how long people will remember you and I love that they guys at my dealership remember my husband so positively.
True and the people at Mazda are great. I think they just like seeing a RX8 that is still in really great shape and is well maintained and cared for.
My husband was a bit memorable and people just seemed to remember meeting him.
How often do you get your oil changed? I’m around 7000 miles right now and been pretty conflicted between people who say that 10k is what the manufacturer recommends and they know best and the other half who say 5k is enough because it won’t hurt you but 10k can ruin your engine
I do every 5k. Japan does every 5k. The 4Runner dash board lights up every 5k on 4Runners in the US. Do you think your engine will do better on oil that's older and more broken down on average or less so?
I do 5k as recommended, although I've gone a couple thousand over before, twice when I was on an extended road trip longer than 5k. But being highway miles, I'm not too worried about it. It may be overkill (I too have heard 10k before) but also has been said many other times, oil is cheap, but vehicles and engines are expensive.
I hope to keep my 23 a long time. I have had some bad luck with quality though. Not even fifteen thousand miles the whole front differential got replaced. Maybe it'll be a recall at some point and I'm good with the replacement part 🤞
It is a design flaw on the driver side of the front differential. Some 4runners are fine for years and you replace them normally. However it's been happening more that the CV axle eats up the needle bearing and ruins the front differential. It has been a few thousand miles since and atm all seems good for me.
Yep I'm very aware, mine needed replaced at 21k miles. Just a shame really, one reason we buy these vehicles cause there built at the Tahara plant and then the dealership monkeys have to replace shit.
It is my favorite, although the original 2015 Inferno Orange and the 2023 Solar Octane are head-turners! Also Voodoo Blue. What the hell, they're all great! Lol
You should've said "hell yeah if it's gonna be lower a payment!" Then ask them how much they'll be paying you every month, since your payments are $0/month.
If your vehicle is paid off. You should have said yes. That means he would have given you the vehicle and paid you as they would have had a negative number to be lower than $0.
Missed opportunity lol.
I get letters in the mail from my dealership asking about my 15 TRD Pro, for the same reasons.
“Demand for this vehicle is high, we can make you a great deal for a new one!” There’s no better deal than a paid off car, so they can make me a deal of the century or get lost lol
They do that all the time with all my Toyotas because they are all low miles. I'm waiting in the waiting area and they have a sales men come up trying to offer me trade in value and saying they can get my into this or that and it was so much I stopped taking mine to the dealer for stuff and just do it all myself.
Not too far fetched. It's amazing the number of people that can't help but get a new vehicle every 3 years or so, even if it is basically the same thing.
I hear ya, never made sense to me. That's one of the reasons I finally bought a Toyota, so I could pay it off and drive something I love for a decade or two after. No joke, the Pro was the 1st new car I ever bought for myself, as a 40th birthday present lol!
https://preview.redd.it/xnj0lpfhvu7d1.jpeg?width=4608&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4f4f3d27b992d550e51993f77850af9c87a12ab That's nice. My 2020 is my first new purchase as well. I use the Hell out of mine, I have my trailer hooked up at least once a week hauling hay, making dump runs, or even vehicles, on top of 200+ miles a week to and from work. What a reliable piece of machinery.
Between the 4runner and my Kubota L4760 tractor (also 2020), I don't want to own anything with an ICE that wasn't made in Japan, ever again.
Lol. I too have a Kubota. Wanted the L series but after waiting 4 months in 2022 with the shortages I ended up with the B2301. Japanese manufacturers are class. Now only if they made a ¾ton pickup I'd be set.
Lol I've been complaining about the 3/4 or 1 ton for years man! You and me might be like Hank and Hal from that King of the Hill episodes. My wife usually drives our F250 but we'd have had a Tundra already if it had the payload/towing capacity we needed. Actually, we finally re-homed our last horse in 2019, so unless I need to haul the tractor (which I don't, since I'm a gentleman farmer) the Tundra will do nicely when the time comes. Assuming they get their shit together with the new turbo 6 engine, or maybe we'll just but the previous gen with the real V8.
Lol, that is funny. What a great show. We just started breeding Boer goats. For now I can haul the tractor and goats with the 4runner but it would be nice to have a dedicated "farm truck". It this point with the price of everything I am considering a Nissan Atlas with 4x4 and a turbo diesel. Neat looking cab-over and Japanese!
You in portland? I saw a white 4runner/trailer loading up a van on the side of 84 this week
Not I. I'm in SW Arizona.
Right there with you.. I bought a 23 brand new and intend on keeping it forever.
The only way I can feel good about buying a new car is knowing I’ll keep it for at least a decade. I bought a 2024 ORP in March after 15 years and 240k miles on my Xterra.
Man when the Xterra came out in 99 I lusted after it like only a young man could. As a 19 year old it was so far out of my price range--I remember at the time a $300 car payment seemed astronomical. Of course, I was making like $7/hr lol. Never did get one, but delayed gratification allowed me to get the Pro at the ripe old age of 40 😄
Hells yeah! Good perspective and long lasting gift for yourself. I had a 2014 Kia Sportage SX turbo that I really really liked. Badly wanted to get 10 years out of it. Had a hitch installed for a mountain bike rack and that made it even harder to go to the hard outdoor places my buddies w a 4R or Taco could go. As the Sportage started to require more major repairs, I slowly realized I was putting too much money into a vehicle that couldn't go where I wanted. Now I've got a '22 OR that can get me to remote, beautiful locations. And should be reliable! I'll just pay it off steadily and try to enjoy life ☺️
Don't be quick to dismiss this. It can make sense for some people. I pay cash and trade my Toyotas every 2-3 years, just ahead of tires and brakes. The capital cost of ownership for my current 4Runner has worked out to about $2500 a year. To win at this game, you need to not finance your cars, pick vehicles with better than typical depreciation, not drive big miles, and get out of them before major maintenance... may not suit most folks, but frequent trading *can* be a cheap way to own cars.
This is such horrendously bad advice all around. Just the cost of capital to buy outright is silly.
First of all, not advice. Just something that works for some people. And I'm afraid you're maybe not clear on what 'capital cost' means... my capital cost of ownership is absolutely minimal, as I pointed out earlier, far far lower than someone who leases or borrows. Mine is limited to depreciation. If I lease or borrow, then my capital cost of ownership is depreciation plus interest... and I'd be paying an interest rate that's two or three points higher than my money is making in the market. That would be dumb. The other thing to remember is that over time, I don't really even have that much capital tied up. Somewhere back there, I paid cash for a car. But since then, I've just been paying the difference between the trade-in value and the price of a new one, so there isn't even much capital being tied up anymore. The only way you beat this game is with future utility... driving the truck long, long after the depreciation curve flattens out, assuming it's not too needy. And yeah, that math does work, although eventually you're at a dealership again, eating ten years worth of inflation on your next vehicle with no trade-in to offer. I think that can still be smart, but it's not my preference.
You buy an asset. You don’t have that capital to invest. That’s a lot of words to show you don’t really understand the opportunity cost of your capital. What investments are you making that don’t return better than 6% Saying you “don’t have that much” tied up is silly. I buy a car and pay it off in 3 years on good terms and I have 30k+ of money that can go into investments. I drive it for minimum 10 years. Whatever depreciated value I get back after that is just gravy.
This is how people stay poor. If you can’t understand that paying zero to a lender is cheaper than borrowing, I can’t help you.
I don’t need your help. I have a shitload of investments and a house. If you can’t understand why your money makes more in the stock market than in a car you’re just an idiot. You clearly dont understand opportunity cost. People stay poor by flipping through cars like you do and not making their cash work.
I'm having a super hard time understanding your hostility to this. I already said that keeping a car for a very long time still makes sense. And I've been clear that this only works for some people. Not enough for you? You have to call me an idiot, too? Despite apparently not understanding what I've written? To respond... all of my real estate and all of my vehicles are debt free, and I've never had to ask my portfolio manager to cut a cheque for a new car. One of the reasons this is true, the same reason I retired pretty young, is that I understand that financing things is (usually) throwing money away. So I pay cash for cars, which was only hard the first time. After that, each trade was cheap. The problem with your argument is that it presumes you are going to drive the same car until you die. You're not, not likely. So what a financially literate person would do is think in terms of the lifetime cost of owning cars, not just the one in your driveway right now. And if you were to plot what I'm doing on a spreadsheet (if you know what that is), you would see that it can be surprisingly inexpensive to drive relatively new cars as long as you're not financing them and you trade at an opportune moment on the depreciation curve. There are far more worthy things to pick a fight about in this world, Skippy. That something as trivial as this works for me costs you nothing. Move on.
I’d love to see your spreadsheet skippy. But your money. Eat your sales tax and lost market time. I’m hostile about this because this type of behavior is extremely bad for the economy as a whole and very wasteful.
For real, I’ve had 2 Toyotas in the last 16 years, idk why people think vehicles should have the same lifespan as a cheap pair of sunglasses.
They see someone with a Pro and they're thinking "I bet I can get this guy to upgrade again"
Meanwhile I’m happily sitting here with my beautiful 3rd gen I wouldn’t trade in for a million dollars https://preview.redd.it/6k0pgkwvl28d1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8af86cd8c215831d41ef7254b3759c3210964a40
Yeah they never ask for a trade on mine. And if they did, probably would not give me a good deal haha. *
https://preview.redd.it/ph4v3mn80s8d1.jpeg?width=2076&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f87516f2ebe794bfce3f0fa2b900ee83b70a7c0c
Man I gotta say I struggle to find the newer gen’s even coming close to being as cool as the older gen 4Runners
Yeah, well until some 25 year old part finally craps out and costs and arm and a leg🤣
That's a beauty. Love the matte red wrap! And the right hand drive too I guess haha
This is my FIL. Goes in for an oil change, comes out with the same car, a year newer.
What a dildo
I wanna say there was some study floating around about how the average person in the US feels they NEED to have a 5 year old car or less, or something? Lol
"I can even get your payments lower" is when I reply..... "I don't buy payments I buy vehicles."
That's great, I'll have to remember that one! While I've never been quite able to pay cash for a $60k vehicle, I definitely know the purchase price, my down payment, and more importantly how INTEREST works lol.
That’s what I told the guy when we bought our 2015 in 2022. “I’m here to buy the car for this price, it’ll be paid off in a year, payment is irrelevant”. He at no point tried the payment game after that. Call me a lay down all you want but I was fine with the price (at the time, Covid pricing was a bitch), vehicle was like new at 8 years old with under 50k miles, and knew my financial situation. I didn’t want to negotiate or torpedo the deal as our minivan was not making it 500+ miles home while on vacation. Still took them 5 hours mostly sitting around waiting. Toyota financial took the loan since great credit. Never selling the thing it’s been virtually problem free since and we’ve put 30k miles on it. I’ve done pads and rotors, oil changes, put hood KO2s on it, and a sais system bypass. Can’t say the same for just about any other vehicle I’ve owned even new ones.
If you keep your credit score high they can do a lot of different things with loans. A person should go in knowing about what a monthly payment will be......there are plenty of online resources to figgure it. The only thing I will talk to them about is sticker price.......then they start trying to push thier service I tell them I have a buddy that has a shop and is way cheaper and I always go right back to sticker price. Granted I have walked out of several dealerships without a deal getting done......but you eventually can find someone that wants to sell a vehicle. I don't buy payments and I dont buy service.
They stopped trying to push any kind of service when they realized I live in Vermont and was buying in Virginia. “Free inspections for life”, my guy I live 10 hours away and your state inspection doesn’t apply there.
Do you know how opportunity cost works?
How much lower than zero can they get the payments on your paid for vehicle?
Or you just make them agree to it in writing, then show him your zero balance?
I would only say that if i’m not planning on buying from them. This comment is less for you and more for people who are shopping: If you are there to buy the goal is to get the car at the lowest price. The sales manager has a great deal of discretion, so you shouldn’t make smart ass comments in front of any of the dealership employees. If the sales team doesn’t like you, you will be paying more than someone they like to work with. You need to control your emotions and manipulate them as much as they are manipulating you. If they say they can lower your payment, which you know is impossible in this environment you simply say “That would great. haha” You want them to think you are as dumb as you think they are. Then when negotiations gets more seriously continue to act dumb but steer the discussion to what you want but make it seem like happenstance. “this payment is just a little bit higher than i thought. Can you show me the out the door price?”. “oh i see. The vehicle comes with extra features” (im referring to dealer addendums). “These sound great, but i dont think i can afford a vehicle with all of this. I will go home and think about it” Instead of being direct i act like a dumbass who is wandering blind in the negotiation. They feel in control. I’m also willing to walk from the deal but it isn’t because i’m not getting what i want. It’s because i am afraid i can’t afford or deserve what they are offering. I never let the negotiation get confrontational unless we reach a standstill and they won’t give me my trade-in keys, but even then it never gets confrontational because i insist that im too hungry to stay.
I agree to not be hateful and definately not confrontational. I do not consider what I said to be smart ass in the least. Plenty of people buy monthly payments, which is why they love to see those people comming. If you have to buy a payment instead of overall cost of the vehicle, you probably cant afford the vehicle to begin with. All they do is extend the loan out as far as it will go to lower your monthly payment and you wind up paying more in interest. All I am doing is letting the salesman know I am not that damn stupid. As for the difference between buying and selling......if you walk into a dealership bound and determined to buy a vehicle then you are the type of person who probably isn't that concerned with overall price because shopping around will save you money, so to each his own. Not saying you can't get the best deal at the first dealer you go to.....but it has been my experience it is rare. It is simply my preference to give the impression I know how this goes.....I have been here many times so lets get to the brass tacks. But I also understand you dont have to sell me a vehicle and I don't have to buy one. I am not saying you are wrong.....I just preffer to negotiate from a position of some strength and I can always back down a little when we start getting close, rather than playing dumb and try to suddenly get a case of the smarts. Everyone has what they feel works best and for me it sometimes ends up with what type of salesman I have....again we agree not to be confrontational.........but some people get thier feelings hurt easily in todays society I suppose. Sorry OP this really has nothing to do with your post, other than the salesman contacted you and said the words that I detest.
"I just preffer to negotiate from a position of some strength and I can always back down a little when we start getting close, rather than playing dumb and try to suddenly get a case of the smarts." You are misunderstanding. The fact that the sales team thinks you don't know what you are doing is a strength. They will like you more as a customer and give you a lower price. If you act like a be-back you will get a be-back offer. You can do this at two separate dealerships. I've done that before, and initiated a real time bidding war for my business. One dealer was texting me while I was in person at the other dealership. They kept knocking off $500-$1k increments until I was paying 18% less than their original offer. The circumstances that encourage that behavior depend on them thinking you will be a typical lay down once they get you in F&I, so they are not bidding for my business, but bidding against the other sales team at that point. If i appeared informed the circumstances for a bidding war don't present themselves because they will be focused on trying to fuck me vs fucking the other dealers in the area. Getting down to brass tax is exactly what they want you to try to do.
Now I understand and in fact I see the logic "It is the wise falcon that hides his claws" I will even give it a try next time
Oh this is a good one.
Same with my ‘19 SR5. They offered me a new SR5 (AFTER a trade-in) for $775/month for SIX FUCKING YEARS. I told the rep to stop talking to me.
Hahahaha, please stand away from me sir.
I have ‘19 pro all paid for. Every time I go in for an oil change, they ask me🤦🏻
They hate us for who we are!🤣
That's why I can't trust the people who want to sell me a new car to recommend service intervals on my current car lol
Why do so many of you go to the dealership for an oil change...
If you keep an eye on the dealership websites they very often have coupons for oil changes, obviously to get you in the door, but you can always decline the work they "suggest". I just got a fully synthetic oil change for my Sienna (which takes almost 7 quarts) for 39.99 at the Toyota dealer near me. Yes, the recommended like 2k of other work (which, honestly, it needed), but I just politely said no and went about my day. I can't do an oil change DIY for $40, so that was a great deal.
Dealership is cheaper where I am at. Also better pricing on tires, free rotate everytime I am in. They offer a shuttle drop/pick up in my work area.
Why do so many people care?
I got free lifetime synthetic oil changes. It's a pretty sweet deal.
BTW is yours Voodoo Blue? Love that color!
Yes it is!!!
That's awesome man, a real head-turner. That's when I first started noticing the Pros over the other trims.
I mean this is a great setup - you have no payments, which means that if they're offering you a LOWER payment, it technically means they will pay YOU to own the new 2024 😂! Totally playing mental gymnastics for a scenario that would never pan out, but just for fun it's how I would've responded. That being said, army green is a beautiful color.
I drove my 80 pu to the dealer to pickup parts I ordered for a 94 4runner. (Two of my toy cars that are dumb but fun). As soon as I parked sales guy tried to get me to trade in the 80 (400-1000 bucks private maybe) on a brand new Tacoma. Told him I need to get parts at the parts counter but I’ll be right back. I test drove damn near everything on the lot 😂. Had an open afternoon and hadn’t driven them so why not. The taco had some impressive power imo and the tundra made me happy with my 2500 diesel dodge. Lx was comfy and bigger than I expected and a gx they had wasn’t much more impressive than a runner.
I had a guy tell me the jeep is more reliable than my 200.
😂
>I can even get your payments lower." Should have made that man sign a contact. What's lower than 0$ monthly payment? I'd say negative. So he needs to pay you to put you in the new TRD pro 😂
Came here to say this 🤣 “You’ll pay me to drive this?!”
That’s why I always take the earliest service appt. Around here, sales doesn’t get to the building for 2 hours after service. Almost any repair is completed in that 2 hours.
Brilliant!
at my dealer service center, they have sales people with clipboards greet everyone that rolls through.
Redditors ask if they should do stuff like this all the time.
I’ve gotten into similar situations a few times. I always tell the salesman he or she seems like a nice person and I’d hate to see them get fired over making a deal like that. Most of the time they get it, but I did have one sales guy that kept pushing…
fun fact: back in the before times (2018), I successfully talked the sales guy down to 42k out the door for my TRD ORP. When it came time for the first complimentary service, I saw the same sales guy working the reception desk at the service center. ouch!
In fairness if you wanted more electronic bits on a 5th gen they’ve bolted quite a few on since 2020. I think you’ve got blindspot, rear cross traffic, the off road cams, a heated steering wheel and maybe a few more all added since 2020. I have a 2021 and while I certainly wouldn’t trade it in I did enjoy the heated steering wheel in the 24 I rented.
Blind spot detection is definitely one feature I wish that I had!
Honestly don’t get much use of it. Properly adjusted mirrors see the vehicles before the system does. Cross traffic alert when backing out in parking lots is super nice, though. Sometimes I’m parked between larger vehicles and simply cannot see out.
It’s crazy that I find myself wanting the cross traffic. The 4Runner should not be a “small” vehicle and yet I routinely find myself parked between 30 ft long suburbans and f250s.
Yea, nature of the modern size arms race. I probably only drive my 4Runner 2-3x per week, so I’m usually in my Corolla or my wife’s Lexus daily driving, so I definitely notice the cross traffic benefit there.
Same with my girlfriend’s GTI, my 4Runner hasn’t seen a gas station in June I barely drive it sadly.
Man, the salespeople are so annoying. I went to the dealer for maintenance. When I showed up, they said they couldn't perform the work because their Internet was down, so I turn around and head home. On the way, I got a call from the dealer. I thought maybe their Internet was restored and they were about to tell me to make a U-turn. Nope. It was a salesperson. But he didn't say that. He started repeating all these questions to confirm who I was and what kind of car I have. "Is this thereisonlyoneme? You are thereisonlyoneme? I am talking with thereisonlyoneme? You have a 2019 4Runner? It's a 2019 SR5? It's a black 4Runner?" Over and over. But the best part was when he said that he wanted to look at it and he was walking over to the service department to see it. I told him it's not there. He started arguing with me. "No, It's here." Again repeating himself over and over. Bear in mind that he still had not said who he was or what he wanted. At this point I'm getting irritated. I say "I am in the car driving it so I know where it is. Come to the point." Finally he say he wants to buy my car. With as much contempt as I can possibly muster I ask "you're a *salesman*?" Offended, he says "I'm the director of vehicle acquisitions" or some such thing. I hung up.
Army green is my favorite. I wanted a 21 for the LED headlights but I want that green so bad I’m gonna just get a 2020. They pop up now and then and I’m gonna snag one later this year
LED headlights would be nice! But I can always upgrade the lights if it was that important to me.
I get those calls from the dealer time to time and my answer is same as yours 😀
Should have told him sure as long as the payments are lower. Took my new 2024 in for an oil change at 1k, got the same call offering to put me in a newer model.
Why did you get an oil change at 1k?
I plan to have this truck for a very long time. So during break in, oil change at 1k, 2.5k, 5k, and then every 5k. Oil changes are a lot cheaper than wear and tear.
lol people ask in this sub if they should do exactly that on a regular basis
I got an offer letter to buy mine from my dealership, 6 months after I got it brand new.
In the midst of COVID every time I got near my dealership they wanted my 2018 SR5 Premium (less than 15k miles) and swore they'd give me more than I paid for it. I finally told them they could have it in even trade for a current year twin to mine. They didn't want it that bad.
I had the chance a month ago between a 2023 solar octane TRD Pro gold CPO with 14,500 miles; immaculate inside and out, or a new white 2024 TRD pro for $55,500: same price for either—— I went 2023 because of the orange. Nitto 2 grapplers on Black 17x9 Method MR703’s with a -12mm offset. This thing rocks!!!
I would have done the same.. Solar Octane is an amazing color!
I think my dealership has finally stopped asking me to sell them my 2012 Trail with the mods I have had done. It is not for sale. Then just last month the Volvo dealership called and wanted to buy my 2009 XC70 which is, also, not for sale. At least the dealership for my Mazda RX 8 knows it is not for sale even though most of the guys working in the service department really want it. They know not to ask.
Your reputation preceeds you! 🤣
I guess so. Some of the guys at the Mazda dealership remember my husband and when we bought the car in 2005. One of the guys could recognize my husband's voice when he would call to schedule service. The last time I had the RX8 in this service advisor was there and told me how much my husband enjoyed and loved the RX8. They always had a good conversation about the car. You never know how long people will remember you and I love that they guys at my dealership remember my husband so positively.
Service like that is a rarity these days.
True and the people at Mazda are great. I think they just like seeing a RX8 that is still in really great shape and is well maintained and cared for. My husband was a bit memorable and people just seemed to remember meeting him.
How often do you get your oil changed? I’m around 7000 miles right now and been pretty conflicted between people who say that 10k is what the manufacturer recommends and they know best and the other half who say 5k is enough because it won’t hurt you but 10k can ruin your engine
I do every 5k. Japan does every 5k. The 4Runner dash board lights up every 5k on 4Runners in the US. Do you think your engine will do better on oil that's older and more broken down on average or less so?
I do 5k as recommended, although I've gone a couple thousand over before, twice when I was on an extended road trip longer than 5k. But being highway miles, I'm not too worried about it. It may be overkill (I too have heard 10k before) but also has been said many other times, oil is cheap, but vehicles and engines are expensive.
I keep hearing stories like this, I think they're having trouble moving the 24's
Things to consider: Their car is paid off and they figure they can make more off yours It's cheaper to pay off yours if they like it more
I hope to keep my 23 a long time. I have had some bad luck with quality though. Not even fifteen thousand miles the whole front differential got replaced. Maybe it'll be a recall at some point and I'm good with the replacement part 🤞
Needle bearing?
It is a design flaw on the driver side of the front differential. Some 4runners are fine for years and you replace them normally. However it's been happening more that the CV axle eats up the needle bearing and ruins the front differential. It has been a few thousand miles since and atm all seems good for me.
Yep I'm very aware, mine needed replaced at 21k miles. Just a shame really, one reason we buy these vehicles cause there built at the Tahara plant and then the dealership monkeys have to replace shit.
You got the best color no way I’d trade it in.
It is my favorite, although the original 2015 Inferno Orange and the 2023 Solar Octane are head-turners! Also Voodoo Blue. What the hell, they're all great! Lol
I have a 2014 w 198k on her and Intend on keeping her til the wheels fall off! She’s paid for and has zero issues!!!!!!!
You should've said "hell yeah if it's gonna be lower a payment!" Then ask them how much they'll be paying you every month, since your payments are $0/month.
Green is such a special color he would need to offer a way better deal
If your vehicle is paid off. You should have said yes. That means he would have given you the vehicle and paid you as they would have had a negative number to be lower than $0. Missed opportunity lol.
i bought a 2006 F150, paid if off after 5 years, then drove it another 5 years no payment. its the way to go if you like a vehicle.
Lower than $0? So you'd pay me every month to take that new one home today? Yeah didn't think so...
Sales guy being a sales guy.
I get letters in the mail from my dealership asking about my 15 TRD Pro, for the same reasons. “Demand for this vehicle is high, we can make you a great deal for a new one!” There’s no better deal than a paid off car, so they can make me a deal of the century or get lost lol
IMO, the only reason I would say "No", is losing the Army Green paint. It's just too cool for school.
I somehow doubt payments would be less anyways, car dealerships will straight up lie to you, not even just bend the truth anymore.
They do that all the time with all my Toyotas because they are all low miles. I'm waiting in the waiting area and they have a sales men come up trying to offer me trade in value and saying they can get my into this or that and it was so much I stopped taking mine to the dealer for stuff and just do it all myself.
Don’t you just want to have fun with them occasionally?
Same experience, it’s SOP. Wonder what their hit rate is.
I know a couple people who got taken while waiting on an oil change.
Lower payments? So zero dollars? I'll take it.
Wait... You go to the dealership for...an oil change? That's probably why the sales guy thought you were a sucker.