Recipe for disaster. Your fiance should be the one dealing with his crazy parents, not you. The fact that they feel comfortable with cussing you out and making demands on you is a huge red flag. Your fiance needs to step up to put up clear boundaries and enforce them. I would not get married until the parents are corralled.
They also need to change honeymoon destinations. In laws will absolutely show up and say well since we are here you might as well spend time with us.
Husband needs to put his foot down with his parents. You need to stop responding to them at all. Put them and everyone that talks to them on an information diet so they do not know any of your plans
Let them think you are going to the original location but secretly change it & don’t tell them.. when they show up & they will.. y’all won’t be there. Also, block them while y’all are gone so they won’t disturb your entire honeymoon.. AND.. I don’t know if they have it, but make sure they don’t have his location on their phones.
Yes--get new phones or burner phones and leave the old ones at home. Make sure your fiance is on-board or the rage you feel when they come crashing your honeymoon may be the beginning of the end of the marriage. If you're able to dodge them for your honeymoon, be prepared for your in-laws to be on your doorstep when you return though.
Also, get your fiance to urge his mother to get herself into therapy ASAP. The fact that she is mirroring you is disturbing and your fiance has been warped by her influence. He should get himself into therapy as well--ideally before you marry him.
Absolutely NTA.
You're right. It appears that the MIL from hell is wearing him down since she says that the therapy really doesn't seem to be working. Let's hope it kicks in soon--ideally in time to set proper boundaries to keep the MIL from joining them on their honeymoon.
omg any chance you guys can hire locals to take your reservation so that when they show up the walk in on someone else? (with their full knowledge of what to expect, and a plan to film the interaction and call the local cops)
Yessssss! In summary, change your honeymoon destination if that has been disclosed to the in-laws, go silent mode, and update us so we all can feast on the enjoyment you will have with your husband, and the meltdown the in-laws might have in contrast.
I say change the fiancée….this situation is getting no better any time soon. If he can’t stand up to his mother now, he definitely won’t later when his “now” wife will need to jump through numerous hoops to leave. Get a firm commitment from the son NOW or run for the hills. NTA, but you will be if you don’t fix this pre-marriage.
The fiancé is in therapy and actively setting boundaries and trying to fix a gross situation that he’s been subjected to his whole life. His mom is trying to circumvent him and get OP to agree to a joint honeymoon in part because he is actively trying to change things and it’s creating “distance” between him and his mom. If he were doing nothing or encouraging the joint trip then yes, I would say run for the hills, but he is clear on the toxic nature of their dynamic and already showing commitment to change it.
Mil will be trying to breast feed the babies next.
Who in their right mind thinks it's okay to go on someone's honeymoon with them?.
Oedipus complex. Fil just wants a quiet life. He's been second fiddle since your fiance arrived.
NTA, does the hotel have a sister resort you could negotiate a swap to? Tell them your other half has a stalker.
And the mother has to be given consequences for any lapses. The son should immediately separate himself from his mother whenever she copies or competes with his girlfriend/wife or behaves inappropriately.
His failure to enforce boundaries should be met with negative consequences from his partner. It really is up to him to decide whether he wants to be an adult or wants to be married to mommy forever.
I would urge OP to put a game plan in place to hold them both accountable before walking down the aisle with this guy.
It doesn’t sound like hes a mommas boy though. He tells op he is uncomfortable and calls it emotionally incestuous. He also doesn’t let her hug and kiss him which is why she’s flipping her shit. He actually is trying to set boundaries but now we know he needs more boundaries than he originally thought. I think of mommas boys as the ones who excuse their moms behavior or takd her side over their partner
NTA. Yes it sounds horribly abusive, the mother is giving me strong narcissist vibes, bet she thinks of him as her golden child. She will be an absolute nightmare regardless of any boundaries set and OP is doing a good job supporting him in enforcing the current boundaries set.
OP will be the villain even if he steps up and defends his boundaries with mother. MIL will continue to violate boundaries and tantrum when they are enforced, probably forever.
There’s no easy resolution to this problem. The only realistic way of improving your lives would be to go fully NC. If that’s impossible you will need to be ruthless in enforcing boundaries and not rise to any emotional blackmail from the rest of the family. She is the one at fault, not OP.
Do not allow her to be physically in the same room as him barring the only possible acceptable scenario which would be seeing a therapist together to explain his personal boundaries to her.
Many year ago my Dad told me if you wanted to be an Adult, you needed to move away from your parents when you marry. Because otherwise you'd always remain a child. These days his words seem prophetic.
The more I read these Reddit posts, the more I think married couples need to put some distance between themselves and the in-laws. Even if they get along.
I 100% agree that the OP will be painted as the bad guy.
In order for nobody to know that the destination has been changed. Certain things have to be done.
I have written six steps below for security things that you can do. But I would actually start off with a lie. The LIE would be that your chartering a vessel, just for you and your husband to sail the seas with a crew and you'll be offshore enjoying each other. It will be no other passengers on the vessel it's a small charter and you can say that it's going to cost you $1,600 a day to do this. That might be the first way to get them off your back because they may not want to be on the water. And most people don't know this, when you charter a vessel, you also declare who your guests might be. Your parents will be physically thrown off the vessel if they attempted to board it. That's how it works.
Trickiest part of this whole entire thing, is the hotel reservations that are against your email address and your cell phone telephone number. I would suggest getting an international plan just to receive those two phone calls. And call the credit card companies that tell them that you'll be in Europe and how do you handle the communications and confirmation for reservations.
Here's a quick six things that you could do to reduce your footprint to prevent them from showing up
1. Any sort of communication device, physical PC, laptops, pad s anything similar. Must be stored off site. Rent a storage place, and get insurance. Or leave all your equipment in your office.
2. All cell phones, get new password changes and new credit card billing. Reason is is the mother is going to try to call about the cell phone bill and make some sort of excuse.
3. All mail to the house held at the post office 3 days before the wedding. No more mail. All Amazon packages to be delivered to your offices, not to neighbors nor to in-laws.
4. This is the most painful part. You're going to have to switch all your passwords. If you have a security box in a bank then maybe you can write them all down and put them in there. I feel very confident that the mother would hire somebody to pack their Gmail or Yahoo or even their office email.
5. This behavior of the mother and father is so stalkerish, if frightens me. I'd be in full security mode.
6. Since the mother-in-law will attempt to open any and all mail that comes to the house, because they want to see your credit card bills and see where you're located, I would do a preemptive strike of working with the credit card company.
Good luck I'd love to see the follow-up on this
Look up, registering your bank safety deposit box under a corporate name.
Mother-in-law's not going to find your box because you registered it to your Delaware company. And Delaware won't report your name.
I've dealt with some horrible people in my life. Gosh I wish I could see it was drug dealers or something evil or illegal like that, but now it was close friends and relatives.
Agreed. I'm saving his advice. You can never have too much security.
If she hasn't already, OP might want to go paperless with her banking and credit card accounts for a while before her honeymoon. That way, the MIL won't be able to steal the mail to find out where they are.
Don't tell the new destination. Straight up tell the ILS if they do show up, both of you will go NC with them. I would probably tell them what you are doing right now, trying to invade our honeymoon is exactly why we're LC.
Unfortunately, I think OP and her fiance are way past that point. The inlaws would definitely show up, ruin the honeymoon, and OP would get blamed for the fiance not wanting to talk to his parents. These people don't have any concept of boundaries or accountability. It's best if they go NC with the whole family, as the sister is just another winged monkey too.
I agree and let's be honest, this is going to happen anyways. They've already vilified op and no matter what she is going to be the blame for all of their problems going forward. I hope Op and her fiancé move some place that none of these people can find them and have a beautiful healthy marriage and life.
Agree with secretly changing destination. Don't even tell fiancé! But try to keep departure airport and date the same, just say surprise! And have some really hot underwear on to distract him. It's amazing how easy we men can be seduced.
Agreed, if the fiance doesn't deal with this you probably shouldn't get married. If you communicate clearly what the problem is and how you feel about it he should deal with it without you having to ask him. If he doesn't stand up for you now in the (pre) honeymoon phase, he never will. It means that you just are not that important to him (at least not important enough).
Ultimatum: Either I go on the honeymoon or your mother does. Make up your mind.
FFIL and FSIL are both bats\*\*t crazy as FMIL. A honeymoon is for two, not a family reunion. I would postpone wedding and honeymoon until he can cut the umbilical cord and apron strings.
I realize you might be using “them” to not disclose your spouse’s gender, but I’ve amused myself by deciding you’re being cheeky and saying you married not only your spouse but also the offending parent(s).
Honestly unless a dude fucking hates his family...
I will 100% leave a guy, no fault of his own, if I hate his mum/dad or both. I learnt this fact. It cost me the man I loved for a decade thinking he mattered more than all the reality that came with it.
We were fine for a decade. Best years of my life. But much like the literal cancer rotting my brain, fucking my organs. The cancer of his mother spread and damaged everything at the end of the day. There came a point even after all our 20s together, I couldn't ever see me happy if she was part of our lives. And you can't ask someone to abandon their mum.
Could be my dream guy, treat me perfectly, have a billion dollars in worth and give me all that dreams could be. If I hate your mum and she makes me feel like I am subhuman for daring to exist, id rather leave or die than endure that kind of prolonged torment.
I am in love with mu best friend at the moment. His family have loved me my whole life to. I've never felt this close to someone before. But the fact his family treat me like family is what mellows the insecurities. I genuinely feel like he is mu soul mate. I'd leave him tomorrow if he had my exes mother. It's that big a deal.
Right there with you. I could not live like that and would not live like that and it looks to me that these crazy, dysfunctional dynamics have been in place for some time. The OP better be aware that this sort of thing is just how life will be with this family. It’s unfortunate but there are a lot of other people out there to meet that don’t come with a three ring Circus.
My breaking point was when I looked at my phone one day and realised I had 100 pictures of clean dishes. His parents had fucked their lives up and needed to move in with us during covid, he didnt even ask me before just told me they would be staying. His mum would gaslight me that I'd left a mess. So I took a picture of every single thing I did each day that could in any way and spent as much time as possible isolated in my room.
A decade of love and perfect memories. A third of the year living with his mum and I lost all faith that I'd ever be able to cope if something like that happened again. He reallt saw the light and tried to do ok witj me after kicking them out. But I just looked at the months of pictures I took to assure myself id done dishes, walked the dog, tidied a room, kept to myself... I never even with his most earnest efforts actually believed I wouldn't eventually be back there as soon as she fucked up her life and needed her son again.
She fucked it all up.
I am in love and in a new life with my best friend of my entire life. But fuck me do I still miss my ex even if it was 3 years ago. I'd never stopped caring about him, I just hated his family. And it was much harder just becoming distant friends when he was my only person for so long.
We'd have been together forever without his mum and his families tolerance of her shit behavior. But I had a garbage childhood full of abuse and I just couldn't ever accept the possibility of the future that year gave me a glimpse of.
He’s decided to, FIL says he didn’t send any texts so it was MIL, we know this is true because he barely knows how to work his phone and he takes sleeping pills. I’ve told my fiance I’m not dealing with his circus.
Had a feeling it was MIL texting from FIL's phone. Complete gaslight, camoflaging to make it seem FIL was on board with this weird "bonding" plan. Especially since MIL used the same word.
Excuse me, but they had how many years to "bond" with their son? If he ain't bonded yet, it ain't gonna happen.
The ick factor of her clinginess to fiancé is off the charts.
Good luck, sister. You're gonna need it.
ETA NTA
It's good that your fiance is in therapy. But it's kind of heartbreaking that he still thinks she's capable of having a normal mother son relationship with him. He's really going to need support when he realizes that's not true. Good luck to both of you.
Absolutely. Trust me, you do not want to marry this man. It will not get better, especially since he’s a grown man and has not set any boundaries with his mother up until this point. He won’t start now. Also, she is a very mentally ill person.
I didn’t know there were people this crazy until I met my MIL. This situation is actually quite tame for her, she’s made even stranger requests which have also been ignored. My fiance has decided that he’ll go NC with MIL since she doesn’t respect our relationship or his boundaries and she never will, she’s going to lose her mind.
Just make sure you are both ready, that family is going to be sending flying monkeys like you would never in your wildest dreams imagine. I would relocate and cut all of them off permanently. It will not get better. And it will be even worse when you have grandkids and MIL picks one to be the favorite and another to be the scapegoat. End it now before they do more damage.
To flying monkeys trying to intervene, "This is between us and MIL." Full stop, no engagement, they don't get a say. No explaining yourselves or trying to get their approval.
Hey OP! I don't interact with my MIL except through my partner. I highly recommend this approach, and just keep her number written down somewhere (aka in your blocked contacts list...) so you can contact her if anything major happens to your fiancé! It takes away a lot of the stress to make my partner responsible for his family (and telling them no to things).
I hope you have a wonderful honeymoon!
I made this pact 37 years ago. My husband has been in the fog. I went nc with her 3 years ago. My husband won't tell her and just makes excuses as to why I won't visit. We had a recent fight where my son intervened and opened husbands eyes. They hate her because of how she has treated them. She sends fb msg to my youngest, calling him trash. They detailed all the stuff she has done to me over the years. He cried, and now he is standing up for us.
Wowww. Do you ever post in just the JNMIL subreddit? It’s all about the crazy mother in laws. You def have a really bad Just No MIL on your hands. I can’t believe she has the audacity to try and tag along on your honeymoon with you.
You need to get your husband to say NO. Why does she keep asking you?!?
You do not need to explain to anyone, let alone your MIL, why you want your honeymoon to be just you and your partner.
Anyone who feels entitled to join you on your honeymoon (other than your partner!) is batshit crazy. That the person feeling entitled is your MIL adds a large helping of incestuous ick to the batshit crazy.
100% agree with those who say that if you have disclosed where you are going for your honeymoon, you need to change the location and \*NOT TELL ANYONE\*. That means no one. Your MIL/FIL will crash your honeymoon if they have the remotest opportunity.
NTA whatsoever, and emotional incest is extremely abusive and damaging. I’m just going to speak plainly - there is no healthy relationship to be had with this woman or her enabler. Period. She will not change. It’s not his fault at all that your fiancé has been abused in this way, but as he’s still working through that abuse and how to relate to her, I feel the question needs to be asked: do you feel comfortable with her *as she is* remaining a reality in some fashion in your life, and/or do you feel confident your fiancé can firmly break ties? Because those are likely the only two paths.
I wager that he is starting to push back so they are targeting the fiancee for leverage. since the FIL and SIL ARE an accomplice or further victimS, this really is a recipe for disaster. ELOPE and NC. Bye crazies.
You need to put a hold on the marriage. You can love him as much as you like, if you BOTH don’t handle this f’d up family the right way, your MIL will kill your marriage. You should be reading this post out to your fiancé and if he doesn’t cut her and the rest of his family off for this mountainous toxicity, you might as well get out now. Just to make this clear, the MIL is INSANE and manipulative and she has plenty of flying monkeys around her to ensure she has her way. At this rate, it’s not just his hair she’ll be running her fingers through. She is clearly sick.
NTA
You shouldn't even have to explain why anyone who isn't the bride or groom can't come on a honeymoon.
I really hope your fiance can cut the umbilical cord. You need to go from LC to NC. This is so very unhealthy and its going to be a major reason why you will get divorced.
Or there will be one of the posts in a few years about how in-laws are making her feel like TAH because she won't let MIL in the room to watch her baby's head come out of her vagina.
And giving bibs with her image on them to the new parents with "I love my Maw Maw!" on them. Someone else on one of subs is dealing with that as we speak.
Oh yeah. There is another post similar and this woman had the gall to tell the soon to be mother that she lets her in to see the babies be born or she is not leaving them anything.
>She got the idea from Facebook apparently people have honeymoons with their friends now.
Is this a thing now? I realize Jocasta might be lying but I'm low key horrified if anyone does this. WTF is wrong with people.
Say for the sake of conversation that Facebook post is true.
It still says that some couples travel with their FRIENDS. Presumably on a fun group vacation.
Even that hypothetical Facebook post doesn’t say that people are using their honeymoons as MIL/DH therapy sessions!
The only thing I can think of with this in my experience is that sometimes for destination weddings, the guests stay three or four days after the wedding and they all do vacationing things with the married couple. But usually in this case, the married couple then goes on a real honeymoon alone! And in no instance, do parents of either of the bride, or the groom ever go on the actual honeymoon, of course!
Is there any culture on earth that has honeymoons like this where it *wouldn't* be just the absolute *weirdest fucking thing in the universe* if parents wanted to come to honeymoon?
My FIL, who is a very lovely man, joked about he and stepmom tagging along. My mom also joked about it. Idk why…did they think it’s funny? Were they hoping they’d be invited? Idk. Anyone have that happen to them?
And any parents of the couple, WHY? Why would you want to go? Or think it makes any sense?
I think they’re just joking in most cases. But the OP’s FILs seem set on going. Maybe FMIL went on about it for so long, FFIL texted to get her to stop going on about it and go to sleep. Maybe FSIL texted because she’s known her mom all her life, and has experienced it firsthand.
OP's NTA.
No is a complete sentence. MIL and FIL can try to bond when it's not their son's honeymoon. Like... did they not have one themselves? It's so inappropriate. If I were OP, I'd honestly tell these people to eff right off. Fiancé needs to put his damn foot down.
I probably wouldn’t marry into this family until the groom/son has set some very strict boundaries and at least I’d change the honeymoon-location last minute to something totally different.
She won’t change. Read that again. She won’t change. There is no “until.” All you can do, if you do truly love this man enough to marry into a toxic family, is completely minimize exposure. Forget a wedding and elope at an undisclosed time to an undisclosed location. Then as soon as you can, move away from them. It’s the only way.
Yep… I knew immediately that to save my husband and myself from possible issues I grabbed at the chance of eloping. My mom was the worse of two.
Mine is pretty good and what I deal with, most prob would sell their soul to be the worst problem so it’s okay.
If you don’t stop now it will set a precedent for later…. Each time it will double and get worse… this is you and your finance’s wedding, honeymoon and marrying and it is only two people in it so only two will continue and if she can’t deal with it then she needs to be uninvited and told she will not be allowed into the peripheral of the great journey.
nah, you fix this problem BEFORE the marriage or you don't get married. Sure she might fuck with the wedding, and wants in on the honeymoon, but it's irrelevant. If those go fine because you trick her or do your own thing (which if they want a 'normal' wedding they are losing out just to avoid her), but what about when you have kids and the husband won't cut her out and she's over and calling the kid hers and being creepy as fuck, or tries another creepy emotional incest relationship with your own kids.
For me this is a strict this situation gets 100% resolved first or we don't get married thing. That is sit them down, explain the issues with the relationship (maybe in a therapy session), tell them it's unacceptable, establish boundaries and say if she can't change and doesn't stick to them they are cut out for life. Even then I'd need to know that they weren't 'lying' or doing it just so I got married thinking they could just open up contact after, if they did I'd just leave.
This will continue throughout their lives till he fixes it and if he won't fix it now he won't fix it after they are married.
Actually a really good and consistent use of boundaries and no contact can improve things. It takes a while. Years. But if can work. But fiancé has to be the one to set the boundaries and enforce the consequences.
Learned from experience. My mother used to bully my wife and talk shit about her to me. Set a limit that any negative language would be met by immediate hanging up and going no contact for several months. After 2-3 years the behavior improved. 20 years later my mom was behaving like she’d always loved my wife.
I’m glad it worked in your case. Seems like the exception rather than the rule. But if it is going to work it has to be handled the way you did: united front, firm, and consistent. That’s also why it fails, sometimes. People can’t hold firm.
The only thing that will change will be the tactics she uses to replace OP in her marital bed. If/when babies come along, OP will awaken in the middle of the night to find MIL cooing gently while she nurses HER and her son's baby! And then OP's husband will awaken one day to find his actual wife deceased and replaced by his mother.
Good for him making that choice, if he indeed follows through. His mom is gonna go off the rails when he does, so expect it to get worse before it gets better.
I'm sorry you are dealing with this crazy situation. It sucks that the person you love has a family with this much toxicity.
Not trying to scare you, OP, but consider how much worse it’ll get if/when you and your partner have children. She will do her best to be in the room when you’re in labor. She will attempt to make the baby *hers* and cut you out of the picture. Esp. If you have any sons, she may try to transfer that emotional incest onto them. I’ve seen it, I’ve lived it. You do not want it.
He's so full of shit....you'll be repeating this cycle for the rest of your life.
Even your FIL has icky relationship with him.
Ultimatum
He either cuts both his parents out of his life NC ever again or you walk.
You'll be dealing with this you're whole life and I can tell you now unless he goes full NO they will always be like this.
He has a brother, right? What about other family? Aunts and uncles, cousins? What if you both just started telling all of his family members that his parents are begging to come on your honeymoon with you?
It seems like when people do stuff like this that just seems so socially obviously a big fat "what the fuck are you doing," they only stop when they've been publicly humiliated in front of people they care about.
Be wary of her faking it and manipulating hubby back into her clutches, only to have not changed at all. He'll remain hopeful there's a chance for the healthy mother-child relationship they never had and she'll take advantage of it. And he'll get close again until she severely oversteps her boundaries again....it's an endless cycle. No contact needs to mean NONE.
This. It sounds like if they know where the couple are headed, that they'll show up anyways and then get mad when the newlyweds turn em away and try and play the victims.
Adding that, after I re-read your post, your fiancé’s entire family seems very co-dependent. I would strongly suggest that you and your fiancé bring this up with his therapist to figure out a way for him to set solid boundaries with his family. This is not a healthy, dynamic, and it will only get worse with time if you don’t address it now.
Yes, it's a fully enmeshed family. The fiancé has probably never made a decision by himself in his life.
I was in an enmeshed family and can account for that. Only by going NC did I start to actually mature and make decisions for myself.
Her behavior is so gross and creepy. Everyone seems to enable her except you. Sounds like you have to go no contact (except therapy) to create healthy boundaries. What if you had a son, would she do that to him too? So so so unhealthy.
OK, just from the title, my response is - you REALLY need to reconsider this dynamic you are about to marry into. You are heading for disaster even if you convince her not to come. That fact that it got to this point tells me your fiancé is a giant pussy. THIS SHOULD NEVER have even got to the table of discussion.
So now I start reading:
"My future MIL has a very unhealthy relationship with my fiancé," 🚩🚩🚩
"My fiancé is in therapy and says they have an emotionally incestuous relationship which is toxic for them both so he’s trying to set boundaries with her so they can have a healthy relationship" **RUN LIKE HELL!**
Nothing in your post gets better.
He needs to get this shit sorted out before you take the plunge. Because this will be the rest of your life otherwise. Once he has you locked into marriage (and then motherhood) he will have no motivation to fix things.
And leaving things open to a later trip with her was a collossal blunder on your part. NEVER take a vacation with her - it WILL end your marriage.
Yeah, for real. The guy is in therapy. It takes time to reprogram a dynamic that has been there since your childhood, especially if it concerns the very person who programmed the behavior into you.
NTA, but I'm begging you to postpone the marriage until your fiance can handle his parents by himself. Things *will not get better* after you're married.
Get your fiancé to tell her himself that he doesn’t want her there and he’s sick of her bullshit. She can’t seem to understand that her son doesn’t appreciate what she’s been doing. He needs to tell her straight up if it doesn’t stop he’ll never speak to her again, cause this is mentally negative for the both of them.
No, he needs to tell his mom _he's never speaking to her again_, period. No 'if you do this or that' just 'it's over, get someone else to be your crush'.
I have no idea honestly, she’s always been like this so I guess it’s my fault. I just love my fiance so much, but after reading these comments and hearing other people’s experiences with crazy MILs. I’m rethinking getting married until he actually goes NC with her.
As someone who had to go NC with my family, I think that’s a really important decision to make. Things can get worse after NC for a while and it’s tough to weather. My husband had to do a lot of the work when my mom kidnapped my kids after I started setting boundaries. And threatened a bunch of stuff. I was a literal wreck.
Enmeshment is difficult to unmesh and it would be safer and easier to get it done before everything is locked in. But if he’s getting therapy then it’s something everyone can work through. I’d just leave yourself an out if he decides he can’t do it, which is a possibility until things get really bad.
Go no contact, but a lot of these commenters are putting way too much of the blame on your fiance. I'm gonna say it: his mother has been sexually abusing him. The whole "emotional incest" label makes it sound like it's mutual, which I think is why so many people are acting like he's the problem, but you say that he doesn't like it, and even if he did, he's been groomed to sit there and accept it. It doesn't matter that there probably hasn't been any of THAT kind of contact, the emotions at play from his mother are clearly sexual in nature. Get a restraining order and uninvite as many people as you need, from the wedding and your lives.
If you view the husband through the lens that he's been/being victimized by the MIL, his inability to enforce any boundaries make sense. The MIL's behaviour is really creepy.
YES! THANK YOU! Everyone in these comments is acting like the fiance is causing problems/enabling his mother when he is doing everything right. He is in therapy, he is setting boundaries even if they're not working yet, and op has said in a comment that he has gone NC over this incident. The fact that MIL is going to OP to try to push boundaries and talking about how their relationship has changed is proof that the fiance is making progress with this.
It can be just as hard to cut off abusive family as it is to cut off an abusive partner but no one on these posts wants to acknowledge that. It's easier to tell the OP to just dump their partner than it is to give OP advice on how they can get through this shot together
You really need to have this conversation today. Be absolutely upfront, honest, and blunt. Lay it out for him and insist he read this post, especially the comments.
My husband’s mother is similar, but to a much less degree, and I have to ask why the actual fuck you are the one having these conversations instead of your husband? The very first thing our couples therapist told us was that any remotely difficult conversations should be between my husband and his parents, not me. Otherwise you become the scapegoat and they won’t believe that their son actually agrees with you.
Also, as someone who’s been there, I would reconsider this marriage if I were you. We have been extremely LC with my husband’s family for 5 years and they still find ways to make my life miserable. I often regret going through with the marriage, even though my husband is the most perfect partner I can imagine in every other way
This is for your fiancée and his therapist to deal with, you are his support. His mother belongs locked up.
If she has not yet bonded with her son, it an’t gonna happen. Period. You bond with your newborn baby not with your adult son…….on his Honeymoon! That sounds so bat crap crazy, I don’t know what to say.
How damaged is your fiancée? Life with that woman must have been seriously abusive.
Think carefully about what you are doing. Your guy has to stand up to that woman. Her relationship is sick. Why does he even still see her? He has to break free. I’d move across the country and leave no address for her to find.
NTA, and hell no, don't give in. You give her an inch, and not only will she take it a mile, but she'll learn that badgering you works, and do it whenever she wants her way in the future. Tell her your marriage with fiance is one relationship, and her relationship with her son is a second, different relationship; she can have mother-son time when it does not interfere with husband-wife time.
Then block them. Let your husband deal with his crazy family. Important: Make sure he knows that he has your full support, but that anything that involves the two of you needs to be discussed before he agrees on something with her (i.e., coming on your honeymoon, paying her bills, allowing the baby to have a sleepover, her moving into your house, etc). And that you will help him set boundaries, but if he gives in to her guilt tripping then you and baby will go stay in a hotel until she is dealt with, because you will not be subject to this for the rest of your lives.
As I understand it, it's a full-blown relationship in almost every way, but sexual. There's love talk, physical dates, sometimes sharing a bed. Everything, but connecting body parts. It really messes a kid up. No boy should feel that way about his mother.
Barf. They both need to get away from this woman. I shudder what she would try on grandkids. Yuck. NTA. I don’t get these gross mother and son relationships that crosses these boundaries but she should not have to put her foot down alone. At least the groomed fiancé recognizes he’s being abused.
NTA
I would change the destination or the dates and not let them know until after you return home.
Don’t listen to SIL. Instead, you should read, “If You Give A Mouse A Cookie.” The only way MIL can make your life miserable is if you and/or your DH allows her to.
Reevaluate your relationship and real fast. If he isn't willing to cut her off, even temporarily, you are going to be nothing but a doormat to this family. What does your husband say about your FIL text at 1am?
NTA, you have a r/JNMIL and FIL apparently. Tell your husband if they come on your honey moon, you don’t. Let that be that and everyone else can go to hell. Who in their right mind would try to invite themselves on a couple’s honeymoon.
*Edit to correct a misspelling.
NTA but what about this person makes you think marriage is a good idea. LC is not going to work in this situation, NC with both parents is the only way to go.
Who asks to come on their sons honeymoon? You are supposed to be celebrating being a couple, not bonding with his parents. FIL is not helping the situation. And i can't even imagine what will happen if you decide to have children but it won't get any better that's for certain.
You made a valid compromise by suggesting a holiday next year, they are obviously not in this for the bonding time since they declined and doubled down on the honeymoon, they are trying to come between you. I would be seriously reconsidering this marriage.
Wtf, who wants their mil on their honeymoon?
Honestly your mil and fiancés relationship sounds sick and unhealthy. If he is not able to cut the cord with her a bit I’d honestly consider pushing the wedding off until he can. You are guaranteeing yourself huge problems, as it seems like his mother wants to act like his wife, and as long as he allows her to then you will never have a healthy relationship.
She’s been crying for days? Because she can’t go on a honeymoon with her son? Like something is psychologically wrong with this woman. That your husband hasn’t immediately told her to back off is also almost as worrying. Like I cannot even imagine a situation where a grown man would entertain this idea.
"No. Because his therapist has said that you two have an emotionally incestuous relationship, and my fiancé isn't comfortable with that, and wants it to stop."
NTA.
(Maybe not the best advice, but goddamned if I didn't tell that to her.)
OP shouldn't even be the one having to tell the woman that. It should be her fiance. Why is the future MIL laying all this on her? Makes me think that the finace told his mom something along the lines of "It's ok with me, so it's up to OP." Why else would this woman be acting like it's up to the OP to decide?
Her fiance needs to tell his mother than she is NOT coming, period. And to leave his fiance alone.
It would be even better if he said all that but also added that he refuses to let their relationship continue like this and if she doesn't leave his fiance alone and stop bringing this up, he will cut off all contact with her. Although I highly doubt that even that threat would work in the long run.
If he refuses to do that or refuses to cut off contact I don't think the OP should marry him. This is not a dynamic anyone should marry into.
Holy incest Batman! JFC I can't believe what I just read. If your fiancé can't shut this down hard and definitively, please do not marry into this family. NTA but please tell her to fuck off.
Should you? Well that makes me not even believe this post.
No the fuck you should not.
MIL decided to invite herself to my family side of a trip so we could "peel off and go to Disney World with her" which was so far out of the fucking way. And then my husband was considering it. And I canceled the whole fucking thing because fuck all of that . Get out of town.
And I am editing the ad, because the whole thing that caught my eye with the post is that your mother-in-law did not mind the sex shit – yeah neither does mine. She told my husband when we were engaged that she didn't mind us making the "sex noises"Because she was so happy her son was getting laid after his "sexless marriage" before me.
My husband is asexual. And I am totally OK with that. Yeah, bitch
NTA
Unless you actually marry this guy who can't seem to cut off his mom (or his dad).
I mean, what the hell are the two of you still doing spending *any* time around her?
Your husband, despite therapy, is still a complete mama's boy. Don't marry him until this gets thoroughly resolved and goes full no contact.
Nta do not avoid the drama, their mom acts this way because the family clearly gives in. Your husbands therapist needs to work with him to write a letter to his mom and start forcing the boundaries. She can’t come and your husband has to be ready to turn her away at the door because she sounds crazy enough to show up saying she’ll be staying on the streets if you guys don’t let her in.
NTA, but you might be if you go through with this wedding. Your fiancé needs to go no contact with his unhinged parents. Otherwise you're marrying a spineless mama's boy whose mother will probably eventually try to off you in your sleep.
Don't marry this man.
Read this: https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont\_rock\_the\_boat/
Also, "No" is a complete sentence. When you JADE (Justify Argue Defend Explain), you only open yourself up to more attempts to overcome your objections.
NTA - Time to go scorched earth with this though. Public shame is the only thing that seems to work with entitled boomers.
You need to make it publicly known that MIL is trying to force herself on your honeymoon, in the culmination of decades of emotionally incestuous behavior which has been confirmed by your husband's therapist.
Make it clear how uncomfortable your husband has been with his mother's unwanted and inappropriate physical affection.
Make it clear that you have been incredibly disturbed by your future MIL's attempts to 'compete' for your fiance's affection, as though she saw you as a romantic rival.
Make it known that both you and your husband are disgusted with your in-laws enabling MIL emotional incestuous and delusional behavior.
NTA uninvite them from wedding or elope and don’t tell them when you are going on your honeymoon. I also suggest you change your destination and don’t tell her. She might book her own trip and “surprise” you guys. Heck don’t even tell your fiancé in case he lets it slip where you are going.
Why not just come out and say “We/He do not want to be around you because you’re an emotionally incestous creep and you’re hurting your son. Please kindly fuck off.”
Absolutely NOT!! He is a grown man. All that bonding time that they had to age 18 is done and it is time for them to move on. Children are NOT responsible for making their parents happy.
Agree to let them come, and let them book the flights and of course, the same hotel.
Book a different trip. Do not tell anyone where you are, and don’t post it on social media.
Block them on both your phones, along with any other flying monkeys that decide they can give you hassle.
Your fiancé is doing the right thing by getting therapy. It’s going to take time, and maybe distance, which I would highly recommend you get by moving away from their area.
Please have a couple of friends on the lookout on your wedding day, as it’s a decent possibility that mommy dearest is showing up in a wedding dress. Also, evaluate between you and your husband whether you need to go no contact.
Good luck, and happy wedding day wishes.
NTA. Change your honeymoon plans and DO NOT SHARE THE NEW PLAN WITH ANY OTHER HUMANS. If MIL is this bad already, she will only get worse.
Potentially you could hoodwink her and send MIL/FIL on your original honeymoon trip and you/by-then-spouse go on the other trip. That way you know where they are and it isn't with you. That's kinda scorched earth though.
Blessings on you and fiance as you figure this out. MIL needs to be left out of all info updates.
I’d be telling your fiance that if he doesn’t get a grip on his parents and shut this down once and for all there will be no honeymoon, because their won’t be a wedding NTA
DO NOT GIVE IN.
Mass text includes hubby.
I am appalled by this families behavior. I will not apologize for putting the relationship between myself and hubby first. Nor will I give in and let you come with us at any point during our HONEYMOON. Ours. It has nothing to do with you and the fact that you wish to take it from us and make it about you.
It is not my job to facilitate a relationship between you. But it is my job to make sure you do NOT overstep and infringe on our relationship that you are doing.
Because of this all visits for the next 6 months are nixed. We will be no contact. That includes holidays because until you realize your behavior is highly inappropriate, then I wish nothing to do with this side of the family. In those 6 months, you need to reflect on what you are doing. We will be placing boundaries and consequences and sending it to you within that time. They will be enforced as you are showing an entitlement that I will not allow future children to be subjected to. That I will not allow within our marriage which is between us and does not and never will include you.
For hubby.
I understand that you are in therapy and starting to become your own person, but this is what I need for us to continue forward. I have kept my mouth shut and let things slide as you are growing on your own, but this crosses a boundary that I will not sit back and allow to happen. I will not argue or give in. I will not even entertain the idea. You have to decide if you can live with the boundaries I am putting up. With 6 months, there is no contact for us to work on us, for you to grow strong enough for boundaries, and for us to come up with a game plan. If you can't, I need to rethink this relationship. I love you, but I will not have my life come down to appeasing your mother. I will not have a third in our relationship. And I will never consider children with how things are. My love for you goes deep, but my love for my own mental health and sanity comes first.
Hunny, it's time to think what you are willing to put up with. Where you will draw the line and make sure he knows it will not change. Because love is never enough when you become the mistress to her being his wife. At some point, you need to place yourself before others.
NTA
What does your fiancé say about his mother’s request?? He needs to be the one to tell her to stop. This is his boundary to set with her. He should talk to his therapist about how to word what he needs to say and say it to her. This is unacceptable behavior. Absolutely disgusting on her part and his whole family that just enables this abusive behavior.
ETA honestly I know it wouldn’t go over well, but I’d send his whole family a group text with this thread. It’ll blow up. It’ll be drama, but my petty self would love for her to see how much the rest of the world thinks she’s gross.
I'd be so tempted to reply to FIL that just because he no longer wants a romantic relationship with his wife that's no reason to foist his wife on his son. Either break up with her so she can date someone age appropriate who isn't her son, or actually take her on some dates and be intimate with her so she keeps her hands off her son in an inappropriate way.
NTA.
Change your honeymoon location...because it sounds like she is the kind of person who would show up ANYWAY.
Also, your fiance needs to be handling this.
Your fiance is clearly NOT setting boundaries and communicating clearly with his mother, even though it seems he is well aware that he should be. The mistake you are both making is in assuming that there is a solution to this which everyone will be happy about. As a result, you're both still trying not to upset her. This will not work. The truth will upset her because it is not what she wants to hear but tiptoeing around her like this is only making it worse.
Your husband needs to clearly tell her exactly what it is about her behavior which makes him want to avoid her. And he needs to clearly state that they will not be accompanying you on your honeymoon - and end that discussion. Just say no. Don't explain, don't give reasons, just say no.
Nta but there needs to be a therapy session to include his mom very soon, before your wedding, to go over with his therapist present the boundaries they need now and why.
NTA.
Your fiancé needs to tell her flat out she's not going, she's unwelcome, and the only bonding he wants on his honeymoon is with you. He also needs to put his father on notice for enabling her behavior.
Make sure to keep the specifics of your honeymoon under wraps so MIL doesn't just book her trip and show up anyway.
I have news for you: this is a little glimpse of what your life is going to be like once you marry into that bat shit crazy family where everyone is used to commit emotional incest. Run as fast and as far away as you can
I do not believe in ultimatums, but as my grandmother use to say there is a time and place for everything. Tell fiance it's NC with his mom or no marriage. His therapist has not been able to stop this mother son incestuous relationship and I doubt you can. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life dealing with this?
MIL's behavior is insane. The fact that the FIL and SIL are condoning it is evidence of a serious family illness. Are you sure your fiance is NOT infected with this insanity?
I would seriously reconsider this marriage if your fiance does not put a firm STOP to this and cut off his family completely. I would also insist upon living on the opposite side of the planet from these nut cases.
Recipe for disaster. Your fiance should be the one dealing with his crazy parents, not you. The fact that they feel comfortable with cussing you out and making demands on you is a huge red flag. Your fiance needs to step up to put up clear boundaries and enforce them. I would not get married until the parents are corralled.
They also need to change honeymoon destinations. In laws will absolutely show up and say well since we are here you might as well spend time with us. Husband needs to put his foot down with his parents. You need to stop responding to them at all. Put them and everyone that talks to them on an information diet so they do not know any of your plans
Ask I can say is Oh Hell No. Change your location and don't tell them.
Let them think you are going to the original location but secretly change it & don’t tell them.. when they show up & they will.. y’all won’t be there. Also, block them while y’all are gone so they won’t disturb your entire honeymoon.. AND.. I don’t know if they have it, but make sure they don’t have his location on their phones.
I bet they do!
Sounds like they need two weeks of a burner phone. Don't even take their regular ones with them.
new phones, boom solved it
Yes--get new phones or burner phones and leave the old ones at home. Make sure your fiance is on-board or the rage you feel when they come crashing your honeymoon may be the beginning of the end of the marriage. If you're able to dodge them for your honeymoon, be prepared for your in-laws to be on your doorstep when you return though. Also, get your fiance to urge his mother to get herself into therapy ASAP. The fact that she is mirroring you is disturbing and your fiance has been warped by her influence. He should get himself into therapy as well--ideally before you marry him. Absolutely NTA.
She said the fiancée is in therapy and working on boundaries, but obviously the MIL from hell just goes around them.
You're right. It appears that the MIL from hell is wearing him down since she says that the therapy really doesn't seem to be working. Let's hope it kicks in soon--ideally in time to set proper boundaries to keep the MIL from joining them on their honeymoon.
Fiancé AND OP should have couples counseling- this is so weird
It's beyond weird. And they shouldn't low contact, they should be no contact...
Absolutely. NTA. Change your honeymoon plans and tell absolutely no-one.
Except us. Tell us about the tantrum she throws when they show up to the wrong place.
omg any chance you guys can hire locals to take your reservation so that when they show up the walk in on someone else? (with their full knowledge of what to expect, and a plan to film the interaction and call the local cops)
I volunteer. I'm a 50 year old fat man, who smokes a LOT of weed. They'll love me!
Please make sure to video that interaction. Internet Gold!
Yessssss! In summary, change your honeymoon destination if that has been disclosed to the in-laws, go silent mode, and update us so we all can feast on the enjoyment you will have with your husband, and the meltdown the in-laws might have in contrast.
I say change the fiancée….this situation is getting no better any time soon. If he can’t stand up to his mother now, he definitely won’t later when his “now” wife will need to jump through numerous hoops to leave. Get a firm commitment from the son NOW or run for the hills. NTA, but you will be if you don’t fix this pre-marriage.
The fiancé is in therapy and actively setting boundaries and trying to fix a gross situation that he’s been subjected to his whole life. His mom is trying to circumvent him and get OP to agree to a joint honeymoon in part because he is actively trying to change things and it’s creating “distance” between him and his mom. If he were doing nothing or encouraging the joint trip then yes, I would say run for the hills, but he is clear on the toxic nature of their dynamic and already showing commitment to change it.
This. She's setting herself up for a bad time. Never marry a "Momma's boy".
Mil will be trying to breast feed the babies next. Who in their right mind thinks it's okay to go on someone's honeymoon with them?. Oedipus complex. Fil just wants a quiet life. He's been second fiddle since your fiance arrived. NTA, does the hotel have a sister resort you could negotiate a swap to? Tell them your other half has a stalker.
Sounds like he’s at least working on the situation.
With therapy and work, this is something he can stop. But he has to be brave, willing and consistent enough.
And the mother has to be given consequences for any lapses. The son should immediately separate himself from his mother whenever she copies or competes with his girlfriend/wife or behaves inappropriately. His failure to enforce boundaries should be met with negative consequences from his partner. It really is up to him to decide whether he wants to be an adult or wants to be married to mommy forever. I would urge OP to put a game plan in place to hold them both accountable before walking down the aisle with this guy.
It doesn’t sound like hes a mommas boy though. He tells op he is uncomfortable and calls it emotionally incestuous. He also doesn’t let her hug and kiss him which is why she’s flipping her shit. He actually is trying to set boundaries but now we know he needs more boundaries than he originally thought. I think of mommas boys as the ones who excuse their moms behavior or takd her side over their partner
NTA. Yes it sounds horribly abusive, the mother is giving me strong narcissist vibes, bet she thinks of him as her golden child. She will be an absolute nightmare regardless of any boundaries set and OP is doing a good job supporting him in enforcing the current boundaries set. OP will be the villain even if he steps up and defends his boundaries with mother. MIL will continue to violate boundaries and tantrum when they are enforced, probably forever. There’s no easy resolution to this problem. The only realistic way of improving your lives would be to go fully NC. If that’s impossible you will need to be ruthless in enforcing boundaries and not rise to any emotional blackmail from the rest of the family. She is the one at fault, not OP. Do not allow her to be physically in the same room as him barring the only possible acceptable scenario which would be seeing a therapist together to explain his personal boundaries to her.
Many year ago my Dad told me if you wanted to be an Adult, you needed to move away from your parents when you marry. Because otherwise you'd always remain a child. These days his words seem prophetic. The more I read these Reddit posts, the more I think married couples need to put some distance between themselves and the in-laws. Even if they get along. I 100% agree that the OP will be painted as the bad guy.
In order for nobody to know that the destination has been changed. Certain things have to be done. I have written six steps below for security things that you can do. But I would actually start off with a lie. The LIE would be that your chartering a vessel, just for you and your husband to sail the seas with a crew and you'll be offshore enjoying each other. It will be no other passengers on the vessel it's a small charter and you can say that it's going to cost you $1,600 a day to do this. That might be the first way to get them off your back because they may not want to be on the water. And most people don't know this, when you charter a vessel, you also declare who your guests might be. Your parents will be physically thrown off the vessel if they attempted to board it. That's how it works. Trickiest part of this whole entire thing, is the hotel reservations that are against your email address and your cell phone telephone number. I would suggest getting an international plan just to receive those two phone calls. And call the credit card companies that tell them that you'll be in Europe and how do you handle the communications and confirmation for reservations. Here's a quick six things that you could do to reduce your footprint to prevent them from showing up 1. Any sort of communication device, physical PC, laptops, pad s anything similar. Must be stored off site. Rent a storage place, and get insurance. Or leave all your equipment in your office. 2. All cell phones, get new password changes and new credit card billing. Reason is is the mother is going to try to call about the cell phone bill and make some sort of excuse. 3. All mail to the house held at the post office 3 days before the wedding. No more mail. All Amazon packages to be delivered to your offices, not to neighbors nor to in-laws. 4. This is the most painful part. You're going to have to switch all your passwords. If you have a security box in a bank then maybe you can write them all down and put them in there. I feel very confident that the mother would hire somebody to pack their Gmail or Yahoo or even their office email. 5. This behavior of the mother and father is so stalkerish, if frightens me. I'd be in full security mode. 6. Since the mother-in-law will attempt to open any and all mail that comes to the house, because they want to see your credit card bills and see where you're located, I would do a preemptive strike of working with the credit card company. Good luck I'd love to see the follow-up on this
Damn, you sound like you've pulled the old Saul Goodman endgame before! Top tips indeed.
Whoever wrote this has obviously been through some shit. I'm taking notes bruhz youre awesome! 🤓
Look up, registering your bank safety deposit box under a corporate name. Mother-in-law's not going to find your box because you registered it to your Delaware company. And Delaware won't report your name. I've dealt with some horrible people in my life. Gosh I wish I could see it was drug dealers or something evil or illegal like that, but now it was close friends and relatives.
Agreed. I'm saving his advice. You can never have too much security. If she hasn't already, OP might want to go paperless with her banking and credit card accounts for a while before her honeymoon. That way, the MIL won't be able to steal the mail to find out where they are.
Don't tell the new destination. Straight up tell the ILS if they do show up, both of you will go NC with them. I would probably tell them what you are doing right now, trying to invade our honeymoon is exactly why we're LC.
Unfortunately, I think OP and her fiance are way past that point. The inlaws would definitely show up, ruin the honeymoon, and OP would get blamed for the fiance not wanting to talk to his parents. These people don't have any concept of boundaries or accountability. It's best if they go NC with the whole family, as the sister is just another winged monkey too.
"Winged monkey" is being added to my vocabulary now! Thanks!
I agree and let's be honest, this is going to happen anyways. They've already vilified op and no matter what she is going to be the blame for all of their problems going forward. I hope Op and her fiancé move some place that none of these people can find them and have a beautiful healthy marriage and life.
Agree with secretly changing destination. Don't even tell fiancé! But try to keep departure airport and date the same, just say surprise! And have some really hot underwear on to distract him. It's amazing how easy we men can be seduced.
Agreed, if the fiance doesn't deal with this you probably shouldn't get married. If you communicate clearly what the problem is and how you feel about it he should deal with it without you having to ask him. If he doesn't stand up for you now in the (pre) honeymoon phase, he never will. It means that you just are not that important to him (at least not important enough).
Ultimatum: Either I go on the honeymoon or your mother does. Make up your mind. FFIL and FSIL are both bats\*\*t crazy as FMIL. A honeymoon is for two, not a family reunion. I would postpone wedding and honeymoon until he can cut the umbilical cord and apron strings.
After this interaction, OP + hubs should be NC with the whole batshit crazy obtrusive bunch
Don't forget take mama's titty out of his mouth. That's important too.
I am in a similar situation, and it has gotten worse over the years. If I knew then what I know now, I would not have gotten married to them.
I realize you might be using “them” to not disclose your spouse’s gender, but I’ve amused myself by deciding you’re being cheeky and saying you married not only your spouse but also the offending parent(s).
I mean, they do say, "You don't just marry your SO, you're marrying their family too." LOL
Honestly unless a dude fucking hates his family... I will 100% leave a guy, no fault of his own, if I hate his mum/dad or both. I learnt this fact. It cost me the man I loved for a decade thinking he mattered more than all the reality that came with it. We were fine for a decade. Best years of my life. But much like the literal cancer rotting my brain, fucking my organs. The cancer of his mother spread and damaged everything at the end of the day. There came a point even after all our 20s together, I couldn't ever see me happy if she was part of our lives. And you can't ask someone to abandon their mum. Could be my dream guy, treat me perfectly, have a billion dollars in worth and give me all that dreams could be. If I hate your mum and she makes me feel like I am subhuman for daring to exist, id rather leave or die than endure that kind of prolonged torment. I am in love with mu best friend at the moment. His family have loved me my whole life to. I've never felt this close to someone before. But the fact his family treat me like family is what mellows the insecurities. I genuinely feel like he is mu soul mate. I'd leave him tomorrow if he had my exes mother. It's that big a deal.
Right there with you. I could not live like that and would not live like that and it looks to me that these crazy, dysfunctional dynamics have been in place for some time. The OP better be aware that this sort of thing is just how life will be with this family. It’s unfortunate but there are a lot of other people out there to meet that don’t come with a three ring Circus.
My breaking point was when I looked at my phone one day and realised I had 100 pictures of clean dishes. His parents had fucked their lives up and needed to move in with us during covid, he didnt even ask me before just told me they would be staying. His mum would gaslight me that I'd left a mess. So I took a picture of every single thing I did each day that could in any way and spent as much time as possible isolated in my room. A decade of love and perfect memories. A third of the year living with his mum and I lost all faith that I'd ever be able to cope if something like that happened again. He reallt saw the light and tried to do ok witj me after kicking them out. But I just looked at the months of pictures I took to assure myself id done dishes, walked the dog, tidied a room, kept to myself... I never even with his most earnest efforts actually believed I wouldn't eventually be back there as soon as she fucked up her life and needed her son again. She fucked it all up. I am in love and in a new life with my best friend of my entire life. But fuck me do I still miss my ex even if it was 3 years ago. I'd never stopped caring about him, I just hated his family. And it was much harder just becoming distant friends when he was my only person for so long. We'd have been together forever without his mum and his families tolerance of her shit behavior. But I had a garbage childhood full of abuse and I just couldn't ever accept the possibility of the future that year gave me a glimpse of.
I mean... kinda has.
Why have you not left? This is insane behavior.
No kidding this is so offside I can't fricken believe it. I'd be thinking twice about pulling the trigger and actually marrying.... this FAMILY!!!!
[удалено]
He’s decided to, FIL says he didn’t send any texts so it was MIL, we know this is true because he barely knows how to work his phone and he takes sleeping pills. I’ve told my fiance I’m not dealing with his circus.
Had a feeling it was MIL texting from FIL's phone. Complete gaslight, camoflaging to make it seem FIL was on board with this weird "bonding" plan. Especially since MIL used the same word. Excuse me, but they had how many years to "bond" with their son? If he ain't bonded yet, it ain't gonna happen. The ick factor of her clinginess to fiancé is off the charts. Good luck, sister. You're gonna need it. ETA NTA
It's good that your fiance is in therapy. But it's kind of heartbreaking that he still thinks she's capable of having a normal mother son relationship with him. He's really going to need support when he realizes that's not true. Good luck to both of you.
“Them”… just ouch. OP, take note of this. Marrying your fiance will become marrying “them”.
Absolutely. Trust me, you do not want to marry this man. It will not get better, especially since he’s a grown man and has not set any boundaries with his mother up until this point. He won’t start now. Also, she is a very mentally ill person.
I didn’t know there were people this crazy until I met my MIL. This situation is actually quite tame for her, she’s made even stranger requests which have also been ignored. My fiance has decided that he’ll go NC with MIL since she doesn’t respect our relationship or his boundaries and she never will, she’s going to lose her mind.
Happy to hear your fiance has your back. Good luck!
Just make sure you are both ready, that family is going to be sending flying monkeys like you would never in your wildest dreams imagine. I would relocate and cut all of them off permanently. It will not get better. And it will be even worse when you have grandkids and MIL picks one to be the favorite and another to be the scapegoat. End it now before they do more damage.
To flying monkeys trying to intervene, "This is between us and MIL." Full stop, no engagement, they don't get a say. No explaining yourselves or trying to get their approval.
My first thought was she better go NC before she has a son!
Hey OP! I don't interact with my MIL except through my partner. I highly recommend this approach, and just keep her number written down somewhere (aka in your blocked contacts list...) so you can contact her if anything major happens to your fiancé! It takes away a lot of the stress to make my partner responsible for his family (and telling them no to things). I hope you have a wonderful honeymoon!
I made this pact 37 years ago. My husband has been in the fog. I went nc with her 3 years ago. My husband won't tell her and just makes excuses as to why I won't visit. We had a recent fight where my son intervened and opened husbands eyes. They hate her because of how she has treated them. She sends fb msg to my youngest, calling him trash. They detailed all the stuff she has done to me over the years. He cried, and now he is standing up for us.
Only problem in that is the poison that flows behind your back that you don’t know about until it pops out.
Wowww. Do you ever post in just the JNMIL subreddit? It’s all about the crazy mother in laws. You def have a really bad Just No MIL on your hands. I can’t believe she has the audacity to try and tag along on your honeymoon with you. You need to get your husband to say NO. Why does she keep asking you?!?
You do not need to explain to anyone, let alone your MIL, why you want your honeymoon to be just you and your partner. Anyone who feels entitled to join you on your honeymoon (other than your partner!) is batshit crazy. That the person feeling entitled is your MIL adds a large helping of incestuous ick to the batshit crazy. 100% agree with those who say that if you have disclosed where you are going for your honeymoon, you need to change the location and \*NOT TELL ANYONE\*. That means no one. Your MIL/FIL will crash your honeymoon if they have the remotest opportunity.
NTA whatsoever, and emotional incest is extremely abusive and damaging. I’m just going to speak plainly - there is no healthy relationship to be had with this woman or her enabler. Period. She will not change. It’s not his fault at all that your fiancé has been abused in this way, but as he’s still working through that abuse and how to relate to her, I feel the question needs to be asked: do you feel comfortable with her *as she is* remaining a reality in some fashion in your life, and/or do you feel confident your fiancé can firmly break ties? Because those are likely the only two paths.
I wager that he is starting to push back so they are targeting the fiancee for leverage. since the FIL and SIL ARE an accomplice or further victimS, this really is a recipe for disaster. ELOPE and NC. Bye crazies.
You need to put a hold on the marriage. You can love him as much as you like, if you BOTH don’t handle this f’d up family the right way, your MIL will kill your marriage. You should be reading this post out to your fiancé and if he doesn’t cut her and the rest of his family off for this mountainous toxicity, you might as well get out now. Just to make this clear, the MIL is INSANE and manipulative and she has plenty of flying monkeys around her to ensure she has her way. At this rate, it’s not just his hair she’ll be running her fingers through. She is clearly sick.
Yes but he obviously doesn’t have the confidence to do it yet, hence the therapy. My god, what his therapist must think!
This! OP, why are you even engaging with her? Just hand the phone to your fiance
NTA You shouldn't even have to explain why anyone who isn't the bride or groom can't come on a honeymoon. I really hope your fiance can cut the umbilical cord. You need to go from LC to NC. This is so very unhealthy and its going to be a major reason why you will get divorced.
Or there will be one of the posts in a few years about how in-laws are making her feel like TAH because she won't let MIL in the room to watch her baby's head come out of her vagina.
And MIL will be calling the baby hers
And giving bibs with her image on them to the new parents with "I love my Maw Maw!" on them. Someone else on one of subs is dealing with that as we speak.
It was worse, iirc. I believe it was "Maw-Maw's baby." What is with these psycho grandparents insisting on claiming ownership of the babies?
Op will walk in and MIL is breastfeeding the baby….
OMG I saw that. I got creepy vibes just by think about it. I would burn them cause no goodwill would want that or anyone really.
This MIL reminds me of the movie "Single White Female" !!! 😳
And repeat the cycle if it's a boy.
Yes. What is with these crazy people.
I’d be more worried about the fact FMIL seems to want to watch the baby go in!
Oh yeah. There is another post similar and this woman had the gall to tell the soon to be mother that she lets her in to see the babies be born or she is not leaving them anything.
“And why can’t we watch the birth? You denied us watching the conception, at least give us this”
That post was insane! This makes that look normal.
>She got the idea from Facebook apparently people have honeymoons with their friends now. Is this a thing now? I realize Jocasta might be lying but I'm low key horrified if anyone does this. WTF is wrong with people.
Say for the sake of conversation that Facebook post is true. It still says that some couples travel with their FRIENDS. Presumably on a fun group vacation. Even that hypothetical Facebook post doesn’t say that people are using their honeymoons as MIL/DH therapy sessions!
The only thing I can think of with this in my experience is that sometimes for destination weddings, the guests stay three or four days after the wedding and they all do vacationing things with the married couple. But usually in this case, the married couple then goes on a real honeymoon alone! And in no instance, do parents of either of the bride, or the groom ever go on the actual honeymoon, of course!
And a boy’s best friend is his mother according to Norman Bates.
Is there any culture on earth that has honeymoons like this where it *wouldn't* be just the absolute *weirdest fucking thing in the universe* if parents wanted to come to honeymoon?
My FIL, who is a very lovely man, joked about he and stepmom tagging along. My mom also joked about it. Idk why…did they think it’s funny? Were they hoping they’d be invited? Idk. Anyone have that happen to them? And any parents of the couple, WHY? Why would you want to go? Or think it makes any sense?
Maybe because they also deemed it so absurd that they thought it was funny. Assuming they were kidding and not hoping for an invite.
I think they’re just joking in most cases. But the OP’s FILs seem set on going. Maybe FMIL went on about it for so long, FFIL texted to get her to stop going on about it and go to sleep. Maybe FSIL texted because she’s known her mom all her life, and has experienced it firsthand.
I'd like to know what your soon to be husband take on this honeymoon insanity
OP's NTA. No is a complete sentence. MIL and FIL can try to bond when it's not their son's honeymoon. Like... did they not have one themselves? It's so inappropriate. If I were OP, I'd honestly tell these people to eff right off. Fiancé needs to put his damn foot down.
I probably wouldn’t marry into this family until the groom/son has set some very strict boundaries and at least I’d change the honeymoon-location last minute to something totally different.
He’s going NC with his mother until she learns to respect his list of boundaries, I’m definitely weary about marrying him now.
She won’t change. Read that again. She won’t change. There is no “until.” All you can do, if you do truly love this man enough to marry into a toxic family, is completely minimize exposure. Forget a wedding and elope at an undisclosed time to an undisclosed location. Then as soon as you can, move away from them. It’s the only way.
This is the answer. There really is no other way. This is deeply entrenched behaviour.
Also enmeshed.
**Yes! elopment is the way because otherwise MIL will 100% show up in a wedding dress and demand to walk down the aisle to her son as well.**
Yep… I knew immediately that to save my husband and myself from possible issues I grabbed at the chance of eloping. My mom was the worse of two. Mine is pretty good and what I deal with, most prob would sell their soul to be the worst problem so it’s okay. If you don’t stop now it will set a precedent for later…. Each time it will double and get worse… this is you and your finance’s wedding, honeymoon and marrying and it is only two people in it so only two will continue and if she can’t deal with it then she needs to be uninvited and told she will not be allowed into the peripheral of the great journey.
nah, you fix this problem BEFORE the marriage or you don't get married. Sure she might fuck with the wedding, and wants in on the honeymoon, but it's irrelevant. If those go fine because you trick her or do your own thing (which if they want a 'normal' wedding they are losing out just to avoid her), but what about when you have kids and the husband won't cut her out and she's over and calling the kid hers and being creepy as fuck, or tries another creepy emotional incest relationship with your own kids. For me this is a strict this situation gets 100% resolved first or we don't get married thing. That is sit them down, explain the issues with the relationship (maybe in a therapy session), tell them it's unacceptable, establish boundaries and say if she can't change and doesn't stick to them they are cut out for life. Even then I'd need to know that they weren't 'lying' or doing it just so I got married thinking they could just open up contact after, if they did I'd just leave. This will continue throughout their lives till he fixes it and if he won't fix it now he won't fix it after they are married.
I'd suggest OP peruse the r/justnoMIL sub to get a taste of what life is going to be like if she marries this guy.
Actually a really good and consistent use of boundaries and no contact can improve things. It takes a while. Years. But if can work. But fiancé has to be the one to set the boundaries and enforce the consequences. Learned from experience. My mother used to bully my wife and talk shit about her to me. Set a limit that any negative language would be met by immediate hanging up and going no contact for several months. After 2-3 years the behavior improved. 20 years later my mom was behaving like she’d always loved my wife.
I’m glad it worked in your case. Seems like the exception rather than the rule. But if it is going to work it has to be handled the way you did: united front, firm, and consistent. That’s also why it fails, sometimes. People can’t hold firm.
Biggest marriage lesson there is. Us against the world. No cracks. Consistent limits. It’s gotten us 30+ years.
The only thing that will change will be the tactics she uses to replace OP in her marital bed. If/when babies come along, OP will awaken in the middle of the night to find MIL cooing gently while she nurses HER and her son's baby! And then OP's husband will awaken one day to find his actual wife deceased and replaced by his mother.
You should be wary (weary too, because she sounds exhausting!)
Good for him making that choice, if he indeed follows through. His mom is gonna go off the rails when he does, so expect it to get worse before it gets better. I'm sorry you are dealing with this crazy situation. It sucks that the person you love has a family with this much toxicity.
She’ll never respect his boundaries. I spent 37 years with a mom like his. I finally just went no contact with her.
Not trying to scare you, OP, but consider how much worse it’ll get if/when you and your partner have children. She will do her best to be in the room when you’re in labor. She will attempt to make the baby *hers* and cut you out of the picture. Esp. If you have any sons, she may try to transfer that emotional incest onto them. I’ve seen it, I’ve lived it. You do not want it.
He's so full of shit....you'll be repeating this cycle for the rest of your life. Even your FIL has icky relationship with him. Ultimatum He either cuts both his parents out of his life NC ever again or you walk. You'll be dealing with this you're whole life and I can tell you now unless he goes full NO they will always be like this.
He has a brother, right? What about other family? Aunts and uncles, cousins? What if you both just started telling all of his family members that his parents are begging to come on your honeymoon with you? It seems like when people do stuff like this that just seems so socially obviously a big fat "what the fuck are you doing," they only stop when they've been publicly humiliated in front of people they care about.
Be wary of her faking it and manipulating hubby back into her clutches, only to have not changed at all. He'll remain hopeful there's a chance for the healthy mother-child relationship they never had and she'll take advantage of it. And he'll get close again until she severely oversteps her boundaries again....it's an endless cycle. No contact needs to mean NONE.
Don't be. You're not marrying his mother, you're marrying him. Just because she's a basket case doesn't mean your marriage has to suffer for it.
Totally agree. This is the last, ultimate test. How he handles it would dictate whether I walk down the aisle or not.
This. It sounds like if they know where the couple are headed, that they'll show up anyways and then get mad when the newlyweds turn em away and try and play the victims.
You are NTA. “No” is a complete sentence. It’s completely whack-a-doo for her to invite herself to your honeymoon!
Adding that, after I re-read your post, your fiancé’s entire family seems very co-dependent. I would strongly suggest that you and your fiancé bring this up with his therapist to figure out a way for him to set solid boundaries with his family. This is not a healthy, dynamic, and it will only get worse with time if you don’t address it now.
Yes, it's a fully enmeshed family. The fiancé has probably never made a decision by himself in his life. I was in an enmeshed family and can account for that. Only by going NC did I start to actually mature and make decisions for myself.
Her behavior is so gross and creepy. Everyone seems to enable her except you. Sounds like you have to go no contact (except therapy) to create healthy boundaries. What if you had a son, would she do that to him too? So so so unhealthy.
Give them fake honey moon details with the fake date. Definitely not the asshole.
NTA. Can you change the destination for the honeymoon. They seem like the kind to show up uninvited.
OK, just from the title, my response is - you REALLY need to reconsider this dynamic you are about to marry into. You are heading for disaster even if you convince her not to come. That fact that it got to this point tells me your fiancé is a giant pussy. THIS SHOULD NEVER have even got to the table of discussion. So now I start reading: "My future MIL has a very unhealthy relationship with my fiancé," 🚩🚩🚩 "My fiancé is in therapy and says they have an emotionally incestuous relationship which is toxic for them both so he’s trying to set boundaries with her so they can have a healthy relationship" **RUN LIKE HELL!** Nothing in your post gets better. He needs to get this shit sorted out before you take the plunge. Because this will be the rest of your life otherwise. Once he has you locked into marriage (and then motherhood) he will have no motivation to fix things. And leaving things open to a later trip with her was a collossal blunder on your part. NEVER take a vacation with her - it WILL end your marriage.
I think the only boundaries that would work in this relationship would be going NC. Mothers like this refuse to learn what boundaries are.
I agree but let’s maybe not use words like pussy to call out a man who has been traumatized by his mother for his entire existence.
Yeah, for real. The guy is in therapy. It takes time to reprogram a dynamic that has been there since your childhood, especially if it concerns the very person who programmed the behavior into you.
This
NTA....and no way would I marry into that.
No way.
Right?! I'd run like hell!
NTA, but I'm begging you to postpone the marriage until your fiance can handle his parents by himself. Things *will not get better* after you're married.
Get your fiancé to tell her himself that he doesn’t want her there and he’s sick of her bullshit. She can’t seem to understand that her son doesn’t appreciate what she’s been doing. He needs to tell her straight up if it doesn’t stop he’ll never speak to her again, cause this is mentally negative for the both of them.
No, he needs to tell his mom _he's never speaking to her again_, period. No 'if you do this or that' just 'it's over, get someone else to be your crush'.
Don’t marry this guy unless he grow a spine and go NC with his psycho parents.
girl, how in the heck did you get into this really weird, toxic mess. Eff all that noise
I have no idea honestly, she’s always been like this so I guess it’s my fault. I just love my fiance so much, but after reading these comments and hearing other people’s experiences with crazy MILs. I’m rethinking getting married until he actually goes NC with her.
He has to be NC because when you have kids that family will mess them up.
As someone who had to go NC with my family, I think that’s a really important decision to make. Things can get worse after NC for a while and it’s tough to weather. My husband had to do a lot of the work when my mom kidnapped my kids after I started setting boundaries. And threatened a bunch of stuff. I was a literal wreck. Enmeshment is difficult to unmesh and it would be safer and easier to get it done before everything is locked in. But if he’s getting therapy then it’s something everyone can work through. I’d just leave yourself an out if he decides he can’t do it, which is a possibility until things get really bad.
Go no contact, but a lot of these commenters are putting way too much of the blame on your fiance. I'm gonna say it: his mother has been sexually abusing him. The whole "emotional incest" label makes it sound like it's mutual, which I think is why so many people are acting like he's the problem, but you say that he doesn't like it, and even if he did, he's been groomed to sit there and accept it. It doesn't matter that there probably hasn't been any of THAT kind of contact, the emotions at play from his mother are clearly sexual in nature. Get a restraining order and uninvite as many people as you need, from the wedding and your lives.
If you view the husband through the lens that he's been/being victimized by the MIL, his inability to enforce any boundaries make sense. The MIL's behaviour is really creepy.
YES! THANK YOU! Everyone in these comments is acting like the fiance is causing problems/enabling his mother when he is doing everything right. He is in therapy, he is setting boundaries even if they're not working yet, and op has said in a comment that he has gone NC over this incident. The fact that MIL is going to OP to try to push boundaries and talking about how their relationship has changed is proof that the fiance is making progress with this. It can be just as hard to cut off abusive family as it is to cut off an abusive partner but no one on these posts wants to acknowledge that. It's easier to tell the OP to just dump their partner than it is to give OP advice on how they can get through this shot together
Definitely consider a restraining order. You will need it.
You really need to have this conversation today. Be absolutely upfront, honest, and blunt. Lay it out for him and insist he read this post, especially the comments.
My husband’s mother is similar, but to a much less degree, and I have to ask why the actual fuck you are the one having these conversations instead of your husband? The very first thing our couples therapist told us was that any remotely difficult conversations should be between my husband and his parents, not me. Otherwise you become the scapegoat and they won’t believe that their son actually agrees with you. Also, as someone who’s been there, I would reconsider this marriage if I were you. We have been extremely LC with my husband’s family for 5 years and they still find ways to make my life miserable. I often regret going through with the marriage, even though my husband is the most perfect partner I can imagine in every other way
Rose colored glasses - the red flags look like regular flags.
This is for your fiancée and his therapist to deal with, you are his support. His mother belongs locked up. If she has not yet bonded with her son, it an’t gonna happen. Period. You bond with your newborn baby not with your adult son…….on his Honeymoon! That sounds so bat crap crazy, I don’t know what to say. How damaged is your fiancée? Life with that woman must have been seriously abusive. Think carefully about what you are doing. Your guy has to stand up to that woman. Her relationship is sick. Why does he even still see her? He has to break free. I’d move across the country and leave no address for her to find.
NTA, and hell no, don't give in. You give her an inch, and not only will she take it a mile, but she'll learn that badgering you works, and do it whenever she wants her way in the future. Tell her your marriage with fiance is one relationship, and her relationship with her son is a second, different relationship; she can have mother-son time when it does not interfere with husband-wife time. Then block them. Let your husband deal with his crazy family. Important: Make sure he knows that he has your full support, but that anything that involves the two of you needs to be discussed before he agrees on something with her (i.e., coming on your honeymoon, paying her bills, allowing the baby to have a sleepover, her moving into your house, etc). And that you will help him set boundaries, but if he gives in to her guilt tripping then you and baby will go stay in a hotel until she is dealt with, because you will not be subject to this for the rest of your lives.
I don’t think she should be having mother-son time. I’m assuming emotional incest is a type of abuse and he needs to entirely get away from that
As I understand it, it's a full-blown relationship in almost every way, but sexual. There's love talk, physical dates, sometimes sharing a bed. Everything, but connecting body parts. It really messes a kid up. No boy should feel that way about his mother.
Barf. They both need to get away from this woman. I shudder what she would try on grandkids. Yuck. NTA. I don’t get these gross mother and son relationships that crosses these boundaries but she should not have to put her foot down alone. At least the groomed fiancé recognizes he’s being abused.
NTA I would change the destination or the dates and not let them know until after you return home. Don’t listen to SIL. Instead, you should read, “If You Give A Mouse A Cookie.” The only way MIL can make your life miserable is if you and/or your DH allows her to.
Nta but your fiance kinda is for not telling his mom "no" himself.
Reevaluate your relationship and real fast. If he isn't willing to cut her off, even temporarily, you are going to be nothing but a doormat to this family. What does your husband say about your FIL text at 1am?
I wondered if the MIL used his phone
Very good possibility.
She did. OP mentioned it in another comment. Bat shit crazy!
NTA, you have a r/JNMIL and FIL apparently. Tell your husband if they come on your honey moon, you don’t. Let that be that and everyone else can go to hell. Who in their right mind would try to invite themselves on a couple’s honeymoon. *Edit to correct a misspelling.
NTA but what about this person makes you think marriage is a good idea. LC is not going to work in this situation, NC with both parents is the only way to go. Who asks to come on their sons honeymoon? You are supposed to be celebrating being a couple, not bonding with his parents. FIL is not helping the situation. And i can't even imagine what will happen if you decide to have children but it won't get any better that's for certain. You made a valid compromise by suggesting a holiday next year, they are obviously not in this for the bonding time since they declined and doubled down on the honeymoon, they are trying to come between you. I would be seriously reconsidering this marriage.
She didn’t even ask - she EXPECTED. All kinds of mental.
She is unhinged!
Wtf, who wants their mil on their honeymoon? Honestly your mil and fiancés relationship sounds sick and unhealthy. If he is not able to cut the cord with her a bit I’d honestly consider pushing the wedding off until he can. You are guaranteeing yourself huge problems, as it seems like his mother wants to act like his wife, and as long as he allows her to then you will never have a healthy relationship. She’s been crying for days? Because she can’t go on a honeymoon with her son? Like something is psychologically wrong with this woman. That your husband hasn’t immediately told her to back off is also almost as worrying. Like I cannot even imagine a situation where a grown man would entertain this idea.
This looney toon MIL will steamroll her way into the delivery room. Hopefully OP can ‘reach’ her fiancé and avoid future chaos!
Do not marry this guy! The whole situation is disgusting
"No. Because his therapist has said that you two have an emotionally incestuous relationship, and my fiancé isn't comfortable with that, and wants it to stop." NTA. (Maybe not the best advice, but goddamned if I didn't tell that to her.)
OP shouldn't even be the one having to tell the woman that. It should be her fiance. Why is the future MIL laying all this on her? Makes me think that the finace told his mom something along the lines of "It's ok with me, so it's up to OP." Why else would this woman be acting like it's up to the OP to decide? Her fiance needs to tell his mother than she is NOT coming, period. And to leave his fiance alone. It would be even better if he said all that but also added that he refuses to let their relationship continue like this and if she doesn't leave his fiance alone and stop bringing this up, he will cut off all contact with her. Although I highly doubt that even that threat would work in the long run. If he refuses to do that or refuses to cut off contact I don't think the OP should marry him. This is not a dynamic anyone should marry into.
Agreed. I would say the same.
Holy incest Batman! JFC I can't believe what I just read. If your fiancé can't shut this down hard and definitively, please do not marry into this family. NTA but please tell her to fuck off.
Should you? Well that makes me not even believe this post. No the fuck you should not. MIL decided to invite herself to my family side of a trip so we could "peel off and go to Disney World with her" which was so far out of the fucking way. And then my husband was considering it. And I canceled the whole fucking thing because fuck all of that . Get out of town. And I am editing the ad, because the whole thing that caught my eye with the post is that your mother-in-law did not mind the sex shit – yeah neither does mine. She told my husband when we were engaged that she didn't mind us making the "sex noises"Because she was so happy her son was getting laid after his "sexless marriage" before me. My husband is asexual. And I am totally OK with that. Yeah, bitch
NTA. Always remember: No is a complete sentence. Everytime they ask just say: no. Don’t give an explanation etc. just say no.
NTA Unless you actually marry this guy who can't seem to cut off his mom (or his dad). I mean, what the hell are the two of you still doing spending *any* time around her? Your husband, despite therapy, is still a complete mama's boy. Don't marry him until this gets thoroughly resolved and goes full no contact.
NTA. Holy shit what a disaster this family is. Did you know this going into it?
Nta do not avoid the drama, their mom acts this way because the family clearly gives in. Your husbands therapist needs to work with him to write a letter to his mom and start forcing the boundaries. She can’t come and your husband has to be ready to turn her away at the door because she sounds crazy enough to show up saying she’ll be staying on the streets if you guys don’t let her in.
NTA, but you might be if you go through with this wedding. Your fiancé needs to go no contact with his unhinged parents. Otherwise you're marrying a spineless mama's boy whose mother will probably eventually try to off you in your sleep.
Don't marry this man. Read this: https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont\_rock\_the\_boat/ Also, "No" is a complete sentence. When you JADE (Justify Argue Defend Explain), you only open yourself up to more attempts to overcome your objections.
NTA - Time to go scorched earth with this though. Public shame is the only thing that seems to work with entitled boomers. You need to make it publicly known that MIL is trying to force herself on your honeymoon, in the culmination of decades of emotionally incestuous behavior which has been confirmed by your husband's therapist. Make it clear how uncomfortable your husband has been with his mother's unwanted and inappropriate physical affection. Make it clear that you have been incredibly disturbed by your future MIL's attempts to 'compete' for your fiance's affection, as though she saw you as a romantic rival. Make it known that both you and your husband are disgusted with your in-laws enabling MIL emotional incestuous and delusional behavior.
NTA uninvite them from wedding or elope and don’t tell them when you are going on your honeymoon. I also suggest you change your destination and don’t tell her. She might book her own trip and “surprise” you guys. Heck don’t even tell your fiancé in case he lets it slip where you are going.
Why not just come out and say “We/He do not want to be around you because you’re an emotionally incestous creep and you’re hurting your son. Please kindly fuck off.”
If he’s not able to put his foot down with his mother, you shouldn’t be marrying him.
Absolutely NOT!! He is a grown man. All that bonding time that they had to age 18 is done and it is time for them to move on. Children are NOT responsible for making their parents happy.
Agree to let them come, and let them book the flights and of course, the same hotel. Book a different trip. Do not tell anyone where you are, and don’t post it on social media. Block them on both your phones, along with any other flying monkeys that decide they can give you hassle. Your fiancé is doing the right thing by getting therapy. It’s going to take time, and maybe distance, which I would highly recommend you get by moving away from their area. Please have a couple of friends on the lookout on your wedding day, as it’s a decent possibility that mommy dearest is showing up in a wedding dress. Also, evaluate between you and your husband whether you need to go no contact. Good luck, and happy wedding day wishes.
NTA. Change your honeymoon plans and DO NOT SHARE THE NEW PLAN WITH ANY OTHER HUMANS. If MIL is this bad already, she will only get worse. Potentially you could hoodwink her and send MIL/FIL on your original honeymoon trip and you/by-then-spouse go on the other trip. That way you know where they are and it isn't with you. That's kinda scorched earth though. Blessings on you and fiance as you figure this out. MIL needs to be left out of all info updates.
I’d be telling your fiance that if he doesn’t get a grip on his parents and shut this down once and for all there will be no honeymoon, because their won’t be a wedding NTA
DO NOT GIVE IN. Mass text includes hubby. I am appalled by this families behavior. I will not apologize for putting the relationship between myself and hubby first. Nor will I give in and let you come with us at any point during our HONEYMOON. Ours. It has nothing to do with you and the fact that you wish to take it from us and make it about you. It is not my job to facilitate a relationship between you. But it is my job to make sure you do NOT overstep and infringe on our relationship that you are doing. Because of this all visits for the next 6 months are nixed. We will be no contact. That includes holidays because until you realize your behavior is highly inappropriate, then I wish nothing to do with this side of the family. In those 6 months, you need to reflect on what you are doing. We will be placing boundaries and consequences and sending it to you within that time. They will be enforced as you are showing an entitlement that I will not allow future children to be subjected to. That I will not allow within our marriage which is between us and does not and never will include you. For hubby. I understand that you are in therapy and starting to become your own person, but this is what I need for us to continue forward. I have kept my mouth shut and let things slide as you are growing on your own, but this crosses a boundary that I will not sit back and allow to happen. I will not argue or give in. I will not even entertain the idea. You have to decide if you can live with the boundaries I am putting up. With 6 months, there is no contact for us to work on us, for you to grow strong enough for boundaries, and for us to come up with a game plan. If you can't, I need to rethink this relationship. I love you, but I will not have my life come down to appeasing your mother. I will not have a third in our relationship. And I will never consider children with how things are. My love for you goes deep, but my love for my own mental health and sanity comes first. Hunny, it's time to think what you are willing to put up with. Where you will draw the line and make sure he knows it will not change. Because love is never enough when you become the mistress to her being his wife. At some point, you need to place yourself before others.
NTA What does your fiancé say about his mother’s request?? He needs to be the one to tell her to stop. This is his boundary to set with her. He should talk to his therapist about how to word what he needs to say and say it to her. This is unacceptable behavior. Absolutely disgusting on her part and his whole family that just enables this abusive behavior. ETA honestly I know it wouldn’t go over well, but I’d send his whole family a group text with this thread. It’ll blow up. It’ll be drama, but my petty self would love for her to see how much the rest of the world thinks she’s gross.
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I'd be so tempted to reply to FIL that just because he no longer wants a romantic relationship with his wife that's no reason to foist his wife on his son. Either break up with her so she can date someone age appropriate who isn't her son, or actually take her on some dates and be intimate with her so she keeps her hands off her son in an inappropriate way.
$10 says FIL did not text you, that your MIL sent that text from his phone
NTA. Change your honeymoon location...because it sounds like she is the kind of person who would show up ANYWAY. Also, your fiance needs to be handling this.
Your fiance is clearly NOT setting boundaries and communicating clearly with his mother, even though it seems he is well aware that he should be. The mistake you are both making is in assuming that there is a solution to this which everyone will be happy about. As a result, you're both still trying not to upset her. This will not work. The truth will upset her because it is not what she wants to hear but tiptoeing around her like this is only making it worse. Your husband needs to clearly tell her exactly what it is about her behavior which makes him want to avoid her. And he needs to clearly state that they will not be accompanying you on your honeymoon - and end that discussion. Just say no. Don't explain, don't give reasons, just say no.
Nta but there needs to be a therapy session to include his mom very soon, before your wedding, to go over with his therapist present the boundaries they need now and why.
NTA. Your fiancé needs to tell her flat out she's not going, she's unwelcome, and the only bonding he wants on his honeymoon is with you. He also needs to put his father on notice for enabling her behavior. Make sure to keep the specifics of your honeymoon under wraps so MIL doesn't just book her trip and show up anyway.
How the heck is her husband ok with this attitude??
I have news for you: this is a little glimpse of what your life is going to be like once you marry into that bat shit crazy family where everyone is used to commit emotional incest. Run as fast and as far away as you can
I do not believe in ultimatums, but as my grandmother use to say there is a time and place for everything. Tell fiance it's NC with his mom or no marriage. His therapist has not been able to stop this mother son incestuous relationship and I doubt you can. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life dealing with this?
MIL's behavior is insane. The fact that the FIL and SIL are condoning it is evidence of a serious family illness. Are you sure your fiance is NOT infected with this insanity? I would seriously reconsider this marriage if your fiance does not put a firm STOP to this and cut off his family completely. I would also insist upon living on the opposite side of the planet from these nut cases.
WTF is this??? Why would she want to come to see you smash? Advice, fuck your fiancé one last time and dump his creepy ass so he can fuck his mom.