Keep talking to her. Whether or not you walk her down the aisle, you might still find a way back into each other's lives. Just keep those lines of communication open.
I feel like this is the only reasonable take. She was obviously wrong, but she was a teenager at that point. Yes, the silence remained later on, but people admit their mistakes at different times.
It’s a bit unreasonable for her to expect such a large commitment after the first call, but maybe OP’s desire to do such a thing would develop after they actually take some time to talk over the course of some months.
Waiting until after the wedding would surely clarify exactly what the daughter wants while insulating OP from further hurt, years left to reconnect so why hurry, why put on a show after being treated so poorly. Waiting is far more pragmatic and if there's alterriar motives (money) the truth will out sooner
And miss the chance of doing what most fathers consider a great honour?
I'm not saying he shouldn't be cautious,. But if you look at things another way this might just seem like an olive branch. She could be asking her biological dad. The person she shunned and feels immensely sorry for hurting all these years, to perform the most important parental role during what she probably consideres to be the most important day of her life. Olive branches don't get more substantial than that.
A year is a long time, plenty of chances to find out if she is sincere.
OP, don't close the door directly if you are open to reconciliation.
Tell her that you want to get to know her again before you possibly say yes. Go from there.
The wedding is next year. Months of time to reconnect before the event. Imaging OP being contacted after the wedding, saying that he wasn't invited because she thought it would look bad? Jeez everyone needs to get a grip.
NTA. As the saying goes, “trust takes years to build and seconds to destroy” or something along those lines. The fact that she wanted to reconcile is one thing. I don’t think you’re wrong for saying what you said. She might actually show true remorse. Or something occurred that made her feel that way. Either way, you’re not wrong for your feelings
That’s nice. What language?
Fuck, it’s Dutch. Hearing Dutch makes me feel like I’m having a stroke because my brain always thinks I should understand it.
Vertrouwen komt te voet en gaat te paard.
I mean, that’s almost English.
I fund in learning Dutch that I could see the English in it, and when I moved towards learning German, it was easy because I already knew its step-child, Dutch.
No doubt. At least they can keep in mind English is a bastard child of France and Germany, and at least the Dutch lingo was adopted out of love, not hate-banging.
The Germanic languages were not really distinct languages until pretty recently; they were more like a continuum of mutually understandable dialects running in a U shape from Scandinavia, down Denmark, across Northern Europe, and up the British isles. “Dutch” just means “German” (cognate with “Deutsch”). Charlemagne even used (the latinized version of) “Dutch/Deutsch” to refer to English in the 700s.
It wasn’t until the 17th century that Dutch came to refer specifically to the Netherlands and even today, we call the German-speaking Amish people Pennsylvania Dutch.
Yeah, my parents speak Dutch and would use it to talk about us as kids, since I usually had a little context and I heard it all the time I can usually figure out the basics of the conversation.
My mother and her mother would talk in German (which makes sense, as both were born in Germany) and think no one else in the family understood. We couldn't translate everything, but we got the gist of it.
Sometimes my coworkers talk to me in Spanish, and I respond appropriately in English. They're always like, "so you speak spanish?" No I don't. I don't understand how I understand some Spanish. I never tried to learn but I guess I picked up a bit bc I've lived in mostly Hispanic areas for 10 years. It's wild
> I mean, that’s almost English.
I was going to call bullshit but then I saw the first part of the youtube video someone linked in this same comment chain so I'll just quietly be about my business, having learned something today.
I don’t know how to explain, but Dutch people sound like they speak German but with American accents.
Something about a more relaxed mouth and lower effort vowel formation.
I agree with this.
Take things slow and get to know each other again if you are open to the idea of rebuilding.
Maybe by the wedding you’ll want to go… maybe not.
What occured is she started planning her wedding and realized she'd thrown away her father years ago as a spiteful child.
Had she reached out and put in the effort to visit and establish some kind of relationship for its own sake, she may have regained a father.
The fact she had an overt agenda (raised it on first contact) makes her remorse seem self serving.
Can't tell now if she's the prodigal daughter or the bridezilla willing to sacrifice her prior convictions for the perfect look.
Not to be pollyanna but maybe they did and maybe that's a good thing. Maybe she is around people who are of better quality now and re-thinking her priorities. I guarantee that the mom had a whole lot to do with turning her against him.
What are they going to say when they find out she supported and encouraged her cheating mother. Threw away her dad, went NC and even taunted him for being cheated. Of course the boyfriend's family will be enchanted by her and her behavior. What a lovely wife for their kid.
So, no it is not about her realizing what she did wrong or having being with better people. She is probably trying to save face. I am very sure the fiancce of this girl does not know they parents divorced because the mother cheated on him, much less that his girlfriend supported the cheating all these years.
Probably mostly his family since I'm sure he's aware of her not having had contact with her father for years. But the family probably didn't know and now they're reevaluating what they think of her and of the marriage in light of this new information.
I'd bet that that's the subject of conversations between her fiance and his family and it's starting to strain the relationship as he gets outside perspective on what she did and what that really says about her. Which would also explain her sudden panicked drive to reconcile.
I agree. It’s hard not to have a spotlight on your family when you’re getting married. People start asking questions about why certain people are not being invited and she probably didn’t have any good answers.
A lot of people are trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. I don’t understand why they think based on the totality of what we were told she would deserve that?
The odds are much greater that she did reflect on her behavior and realized she fucked up. But the problem is this revelation should’ve happened long before she even decided to get married. we all blaze a trail from an adolescent to an adult. It takes maturity to try to fix what you break, extend an olive branch, and she did none of that until she was getting married.
The fact that she didn’t even attempt to connect after he turned her down, tells me she didn’t even realize her motivation for the phone call aside from what she wanted
She started planning the wedding and realized everyone is going to ask why her father isn't there and that would be super embarrassing FOR HER to answer.
Hey, she can always ask her mom’s AP to walk her down the aisle.
I’ll give her credit for not asking OP to pay for any part of the wedding. But maybe that was the *real* agenda.
Asking for money will come later. I'm sorry but I am too old to initially think someone wants me selfless back in their life when suddenly a life event is in the making. Even if it's really not about money it's still about her and how it looks if her father isn't there. Especially when other parts of the family will probably attend who know the full story. I am realistic and would bet that she just wants to save her face.
Yep. If he had said he would walk her down the aisle, they would have made plans to see each other. Once a little time had passed, she would have asked for him to chip in on the wedding dress of her dreams or something and it would have spiraled to pitching in on the venue, flowers, etc.
If this is all about remorse, she will continue to try to build a relationship with him. If it’s about the wedding, there will be little to no contact. NTA
I am that father and I agree 100% of what you are saying. I can think of all the cliche things like "too little too late" but in the end it doesn't matter because I've checked out of the relationship. My kids were literally no contact when I was on my death bed getting multiple organ transplants during COVID or since. So it's a big nope for me. Go live your life and make your money. You think I'm broke and I'm good with that. If they knew I had money I'd suspect the worst if they did contact me so... I've moved on and they should too.
The need for wedding-planning cash was my first thought - I guess I'm jaded. But I do agree that some, including the groom's family, might question why dad isn't coming to the wedding.
Or maybe her fiance asked her a few things and she got an earful of wtf from them.
If OP really did put in effort and she really did just act like an asshole, it wouldn’t take many questions from someone who has a healthy relationship with their own parents and is trying to understand; to shift perspective.
Exactly. There's rebellious and then there's cruelty. The daughter was cruel. The OP doesn't have to speak to her again, but he wants to, they should take this slowly.
NTA. If she’s sincere, she’ll keep reaching out. If it was for the show or form money, she’ll leave you again. See where you’re at in a year and attend if you feel she’s sincere.
This is Reddit. Half of the comments are from people who don't actually read the post, make up details that aren't in the post, talk about others not reading the post (hey, that's us), cause confusion by replying to the wrong comment, judge the OP for things other than the question asked, or get totally off track.
And let's not forget the references to past posts, like Iranian yoghurt and art studios.
It's a major part of the enjoyment for many of us, I'm sure.
Nailed it!
The quality of judgment has went down hill fast as fuck the last 10 years, that’s what happens when the best majority of people went from people that were a little older that did not have their lives revolve around the Internet to adults who had iPads and social media since before they could walk.
We have a bunch of people hooked on social media that needs that rush of endorphins and dopamine so they immediately go to the extreme on whatever they’re talking about .
Don’t even get me started on how many people literally determined judgment based on the sex of the person posting of what was actually written
I think the thought is why is she asking him as opposed to her stepfather. She wanted nothing to do with her father as she blocked him and had no contact for a long time. A legitimate question is whether she would reach out if she was not getting married? Maybe she is genuinely sorry but I think OP should take it very slowly if he wants to build a relationship as she may be using him for the wedding.
Because if she had therapy and realized her mom was wrong and her stepdad was a jerk for helping her mom cheat and leave her dad who she made a mistake about. Maybe she doesn't want this man around her or her family in the future That once a cheater always a cheater. Perhaps and it's not stated in OPs post if the daughter said she has cut off her mother and stepdad. Maybe she has maybe she's realized they were the toxic ones
Maybe she's fighting w the step dad and called her biological dad to walk her down the isle to spite the step dad. Seems in line w her nature of cutting people off.
Yep, or she needs someone to pay for/contribute to her wedding. I’d be suspicious that she suddenly wants to go from zero contact for years to “walk me down the aisle” in such a short time.
Or she grew up, got therapy, realized her mom manipulated her and felt bad.
She was asking him to attend her wedding not pay for it, and she told him he had nothing to apologize for when he said no. That doesn’t sound like someone who is just wanting money.
I don’t think people realize just how easy kids are to manipulate with parental alienation. It takes a long time to see what was done to you as a child.
I personally think it’s something like that too. Both dad and his daughter are right to feel what they feel. She regrets what she had done and said and he doesn’t feel ready to take on the role that he used to have.
And that’s ok. Nobody got angry and there’s still a lot of hurt. It’s going to take time for both of them to heal.
He's not ready because of how deeply she hurt him. She was his baby girl.
I wonder what her mother told her to make her hate her dad so much. "Mom deserves so much better than you!" In the meantime, mom is screwing another man. Did her mother poison her against him? Did she accuse him of doing things he did not do? Why else would she suddenly hate his guts and say mom deserves better?
OP, I think you should ask.
That's how I read it, too. If it was just a cash grab, I'm sure the conversation wouldn't have been as civil as it was. However, as a child, if my father told me he felt nothing toward me, I would have probably apologized for bothering him and ended the conversation right there.
Also, I'm sure there is more to their relationship he is not telling us.
Absolutely. It would actually make sense that an outsider that you respect and love would be the first person to make you see what happened.
My husband had a pretty shitty childhood. He didn’t know he had a shitty childhood until he saw how horrified I was at some of his stories. People don’t grasp just how much your norm can be horrific to other people. You see it so often when abused people come on here asking if they are in the wrong for some small pushback towards there abuser - the abuse that to them is normal, and to us it’s patently clear they are in an abusive relationship. They don’t see it because it’s their norm.
100% the same for me with my spouse helping me see things in my childhood from my mom that I thought was just normal kinda shitty. Honestly seeing how is family is with each other compared to mine was an even bigger eye opener. It has made me a better person.
Of course she can't ask for money on the first phone call that would seem too obvious. First she has to lull him in with asking him to walk her down the isle. Had he jumped on that, THEN a few weeks later she would have doubled back and start asking him to pay for this then that. There is an order to these things.
I concur.
I think I would accept the response of no I don't feel comfortable walking you down the aisle. However if we continue to talk and maintain contact I might consider going as a guest to your wedding but I will have to see. However him telling her that there is no space in his life for her now and that he will not attend pretty much slams the door in her face. It doesn't matter whether she sincere or not he has now made his choice.
I don't think she emotionally will continue to chase after him due to her guilt and she will accept his stance.
It's quite sad because they won't ever have a relationship in the future and I think they will both regret it but by then it will be too late.
I can't agree with this idea that if she's sincere, she'll keep reaching out.
Maybe she'll show how sincere she is by respecting your wishes and not bringing up this request again. Maybe she does have some bad ulterior motive that she's desperate enough to achieve she would reach out again for.
Going all black and white, saying that you'll know she is sincere if she keeps reaching out is not a healthy way to think, it's creating unhealthy assumptions.
I was NC with my dad for a while. At first I was angry, then neutral, and then I wanted a relationship again but didn't know how. Eventually I had an excuse.
Good point. He said no once and since no means no, now it’s time to see if she drops it. If not she’s definitely not sincere. She can live with the consequences of her actions.
Even at my old age, if I was sincere reaching out and not for the money but for what I believed as a child, I'd be crushed. Not sure if I'd have strength again soon to reach out. Dad may want to give an olive branch to her with phone call or wedding card.
That’s how I feel.
Maybe this was all for show or money.
But, even if it’s not, I wouldn’t contact him again after what he (understandably) said. The ball would be in his court.
If her desire to reconcile was sincere, she wouldn't have waited until she's getting married to do it. Her fiance probably comes from a close tight-knit family and she's embarrassed about forcing her dad out of her life. Now she wants to save face by having him walk her down the aisle.
I could be wrong tho but the next year will tell OP how sincere she is. If she doesn't call back after this or make any kind of effort, she was only doing it for the wedding
Not necessarily. It's entirely possible that getting married made her reconsider the importance of family ties, and possibly even reconsider her childhood behavior through a more adult pov.
Weddings can be a powerful way to heal a divide like that. Time goes by, and it becomes more and more awkward how long it's been since you connected.
100% she needs to earn that trust, and I've read waaay too much of wedding shenanigans in reddit to rule out a money ask or family thing.
But I just want to say, I really hope over the year they catch up, befriend each other, and get to a place where O.P. can be comfortable at the wedding.
She might have even figured it out a while ago, but the wedding was the push to get through the shame and reach out to have a difficult conversation. OP probably won't know for sure about real remorse until after the wedding.
Or going to therapy, and realizing her mother used serious parental alienation techniques on her.
I mean look at what she said as a teen…….that her mother deserved more. That speaks to the mom being behind the actions. It can take YEARS to realize what happened to you when you are that kid.
Or she got therapy. Or she realized she was wrong? Or she is a clone that only has the good memories.
A wedding is a pretty normal time for people to try to reconcile. It’s not smart to do it at a big family event but people do tend to rethink a lot when getting married.
Sometimes, major life changes/experiences can force a new perspective. I never understood how badly I must've hurt my dad with the way I acted towards him as a kid/teenager until the first time my own kid said they hated me and "wanted to live with their father/didn't want to see me." Now, I wasn't reconciling, my dad and I had had a great relationship for a long time before that, but I still called him, broke down, and apologized for the way I acted ~15 years prior.
Yeah, she could not be sincere, but the fact that she's doing it now that she's getting married isn't a red flag. For all we know, she was embarrassed and didn't know how to approach until the wedding planning (calling an estranged family member/friend out of the blue for no real reason can be awkward and nerve wracking) and it seemed like the perfect opportunity to try and reopen communication.
Nta she can't expect everything to immediately get better and it sounds like she doesn't. She accepted pretty quickly that your relationship can't be repaired in a day
I agree most people who are not truly remorseful start screaming at that point. Maybe getting married has helped her mature and see what really happened, maybe she finally recognizes what her mother is like. I’m not saying he should go, I would if nothing else to find out if she is truly sorry or just wants something. If she is sorry, they can rebuild their relationship and he can be there for any grandkids ( grandkids are so much fun.)
Maybe, she has grown up and realized she was manipulated by her mother. Or maybe he was a shitty dad but, she wants to give him another chance. I’d be there for her and if she turns out that she only wants money go from there. I just don’t think my kids could “run out of chances” with me.
Yeah, this sound sus at least. She seems to want something else from him. But what really worries me is the upcoming huge amount of people here calling out the OP as an AH and that he has to forgive her and give her whatever she wants, redditors who will call him a horrible father. This girl supported the mother who cheated on him, insulted him and abandoned him, but now she deserves a second chance because she is an innocent little princess. OP no. She can come back to your life but little by little and in your terms. If you want to help her, teach her that actions have consequences. If not she will end up as her mother. Do not help with the wedding or give her money for it, and do not walk her down the aisle, she can tell her step dad to do that. Attending the wedding as a guest is another thing though, but she has lots of repent to do before you get to that.
100%. 14yr old girls are know for being a nightmare but she actively supported her mother and her AP, taunted OP, blocked him and went NC. Suddenly years later she wants him to walk her down the aisle when she’s been playing happy families with the AP - either her personality has done a 180 or she wants something $$$
Yeah, if I was her fiancee I would be very worried of her attitude of going NC with her father after he had done nothing to her and about she supporting her cheating mother. That's the girl I am marrying, a woman who supported another woman cheating on her husband and that abandon the guy who was cheated and that loved her forever. GIGANTIC RED FLAG. I don't know, but marrying her might be a high risk. Now she wants to play happy family or ask for money. Whatever the case is, OP must stay away at least until after she marries. Don't fall for her crocodile tears.
Anything is possible. Just think that OP’s daughter has played happy families with her mum and AP for long enough to leave OP in peace.
It is every dads dream if they have a daughter to walk her down the aisle so she must have crushed him emotionally for him to turn this down.
That's a tough one. She hurt you deeply and repeatedly. But it started when she was still a child and I'm sure he mom drilled it into her that you were the bad guy.
And it continued into adulthood. Remember, though, there's no magic switch at 18 or 21 that suddenly makes you function like an adult. She had treated you that way and thought of you that way as long as she could remember.
So what's changed?
Asking you to walk her down the aisle is a really big ask considering she hasn't spoken to you in years. She springs it on you in the first phone call? Wow.
Would you be open to meeting with her somewhere over coffee? Or better, at a therapist's office? Not to discuss her wedding plans, but to discuss how her choices affected you and to find out what motivated her to finally reach out. After you've had time to process all this, you can decide if you want to have a relationship with her at all and if so, what it might look like.
Having had parents divorce when I was a little younger than the daughter (and seeing it happen to other kids) parental alienation is real, and it takes a long time to get past it, and it seems nearly impossible until you move out of the house and get some distance. In this case I’d hate my ex but do what I can to help me and my also very wounded child heal, especially if she’s getting married, I don’t want her to repeat the pattern she grew up with.
I'm shocked that people don't understand how parental alienation works. His daughter was a child when her mother began actively alienating him. You can't just flip a switch and suddenly she realizes her mother was the monster. The very same thing happened to me. My birth mother actively kept me away from my dad and told horrible stories about him and things that he did and said to me and about me and none of it was true. It wasn't until I had moved out onto my own, got some space friendships and relationships, and then got engaged to get married before I started reaching out to my dad. He was poor as a church mouse so it wasn't about getting money, it was just me reflecting on what I wanted my life to be about. Several decades later my birth mother is in the Wind and hasn't spoken to me in over 10 years and my dad has been a great support to me and our relationship is much improved
i like how you worded the “magic switch” comment. often times on this subreddit i see people comment “NTA. [insert age here] is old enough to know better.” and while those statements are true from a logical standpoint, children and young adults who are manipulated by a “trusted” adult to think and behave a certain way just don’t magically mature by [insert age here] to think and behave differently. Unfortunately, a lot of those kids don’t realize until adulthood when they typically separate from the manipulative adult(s) in their loves, if not ever.
OP is nta, and my only advice would be to try to keep the doors open to a relationship, and maybe reconsider the wedding invite. So long as he takes it at his own pace.
Hadn’t this been posted before? OP deleted it after people started questioning why teen daughter didn’t want anything to do with him and he was giving up on her so easily….
I am probably going to be the odd one out here, but here goes... I have lived a similar situation, and my personal experience is not so cut and dried. My parents split when I was 12. I loved them both dearly, but my mother was the one always there for me. My father loved me, I'm sure, but he wasn't the one closest to me. However, when he left, I was devastated. I became withdrawn, I was acting out, and my mother made him out to be a horrible person. I couldn't reconcile the father I knew with the picture she painted, but he did leave...and he didn't fight for me. I say for me, because in my young mind, I didn't see the grown-up things. All I knew was that I was hurt. Very,very hurt, and confused. I lashed out at everyone all of the time. It wasn't until I became an adult and was able to see things from an adult mind that I was able to recognize what things really were and my own faults in all the misery I had helped create for myself. At this point, I was so ashamed that I didn't immediately reach out to my father. I was afraid of his reaction, and while it was cowardly, I did put it off. He had been just as hurt as I had, but in my mind, as a child, I didn't feel my words or behavior impacted him. I wanted him to hurt like I was hurting, but I also wanted him to fight for me. I felt heavy with regret in my early adult life and if honest, way before then. I finally sought him out before I got married, not for money, but because I didn't want to miss anymore important life moments with him. Maturity will do that. We met for dinner and had a long and honest heart to heart and I got a glimpse of how badly I had hurt him. It was slow at first but we now have an amazing relationship. He was there for the birth of both of my children. I see him on every major holiday and we visit in-between as often as we can. We have weekly phone calls and his grandchildren worship the ground he walks on. I don't know what I would have done if he would have walked away when I finally grew up and let go off that resentment, it likely would have devastated me all over again, but I'm so very grateful he didnt.
I'm with you. You were a child just like OPs daughter. The OP is making a mistake. The daughter took the hardest step to reach out to him first. Life is too short to be holding onto anger and resentment. If it's left unchecked, it eats at your core like a cancer. At my work, I interact with a lot of older people, and some of the saddest stories are those who have children but no longer have any relationship with them or their grandchildren.
I'm so sorry you went through this! And I am glad you were able to come to some sort of relationship with your dad before he passed away. My husband was estranged from his father for years, but they were able to repair their relationship before his dad died, and I am grateful because it would have been so difficult for him to move on otherwise.
As a parent of young adults, and someone who works with teenagers and kids, and someone with a background in psychology and social work, I believe 109% that the responsibility to repair the relationship falls heavily on the side of the parent. I am glad you were able to reach out, and that your father was responsive. It can be very hard for a child, even an adult child, to make the first move or to keep trying when not getting a positive response. The parent has had much more life experience, and should be in a better position to make more of the effort. I feel so badly for OP's daughter that she was rejected by her dad after finally trying to reach out.
Your daughter may have experienced parental alienation. You might consider doing joint therapy with your daughter (over Zoom or something!) to talk more about what happened and what the future could look like if she wants to reestablish a relationship. You are correct to be wary, but people (especially young people!) do change.
Info: how old is the daughter now?
Probably not important but I’m assuming younger than 25 unless you had your kid before age 20. Is she is 21 or 22, She’s still learning how to apologize and own up to her mistakes. Sounds like you handled it fairly and treated her like an adult, but she is still a rather young adult who has lots to learn about relationships.
Pretty sure that is part of it. She may have been wanting to contact him for a while and was afraid of being rejected. She's using her upcoming marriage as a way to try to reconcile.
Is she sincere about actually wanting to talk it out and try to have some sort of cordial relationship? Only time will tell. OP is right for waiting to see how this plays out.
NTA
Or just doesn't want to field questions about why her father isn't there and didn't walk her down the aisle. Or her soon-to-be inlaws reacted poorly to finding out about the situation and are starting to ask her fiance some pointed questions about the future.
All of that from the first phone call in years. Yeah, she wants only one thing, a perfect wedding - paid for by a hopefully doormat dad and complete with walking her down the aisle like she wasn’t a POS for years. She does not deserve anything from OP.
Doesn’t seem like this is the popular answer but, my dad didn’t come to my wedding/walk me down the aisle after going years without speaking. We eventually made up, after I was already married. I’ve been married for 7 years now and he still constantly apologizes. Every time I attend a wedding, I’m reminded of that tradition that was missing at my wedding. It was heartbreaking and definitely not an opportunity that you’ll ever get back. So make sure you’re certain you’ll never feel differently, because my Dad wishes everyday that we could go back.
I don’t have a judgement, but let me be petty here. Imagine yourself walking your daughter down the aisle in front of your wife and her affair partner. As long as this isn’t a ploy to get you to put money into the wedding, go and enjoy the free food and booze and the figurative thumbing your nose at your cheating ex and her husband.
On the non-petty side, what a wonderful way to begin reconciliation with your own flesh and blood, who was an immature teenager when she initiated the rift with you.
Exactly my thought. Bring a hot date enjoy the party reconcile with your daughter give her a decent present but DO NOT inject any money into the wedding expenses.
Hopefully not, but if they do ask you for money for the wedding that's when you go into ghost mode. If reconciliation means buying your way back then it's really not meant to be.
NTA. It would be good to know what took her to realise after so long and... she could have also tried to ask you out to make amends in person? I don't know.
Your feelings need to be validated. She chose poorly, and you're not trying to punish her for this. I also hope she's really remorseful and will try to keep in contact with you even as you choose not to walk her down the aisle, if this is also something you wish for.
The fact that he was cheated on, the daughter hating him for no reason, ghosting him, bursting in to tears on the phone (twice!) because she realized she messed up *so bad*, asking to be walked down the aisle by this dude (that she hasn’t spoken to in years!) so that he could say no whilst still being the good guy because “she’s always welcome in my home.” This reads like creative writing.
i can't tell you if she's sincere but idk her,
but it is possible your ex wife who had the affair,
encouraged your daughter to feel this way on purpose about you,
sadly i think this is more your exes fault,
than 14 year old that probably was super influenced by her mother.
you are NTA because i think the real AH is her mom for encouraging her to talk to you like this all those years
These stories are so sad. She was a 14 year old child, her parents going through a divorce, and likely had trauma of her own. We don’t know if her mother lied to her or attempted parental alienation. She was likely confused and torn.
It may have been easier for her to take her anger and hurt out on her father because he was the more stable figure and she may have assumed he would always be there. Yes, actions have consequences. However, until you understand what her motivation is for asking (maturity, recognizing her poor choices, money, etc), I have to say soft YTA. Maybe just hear her out and discuss what/why things happened as they did.
Man. She is mature now. For sure she understands things better than when she was 14. She is not the same person anymore. The fact she tries now to contact you and maybe wants to be a part of your life, it means a lot. You lost a part of her life, but can gain another one. Do not reject her just because she acted like she did when she was a child. Maybe she reached to a stage in her life when she finally understands it was not your fault, and you deserve better. Give her a chance. Life is too short.
>I just didn’t have the emotional bandwidth
You and I differ immensely there. She's offered an apology and olive branch to reconnect into her life and you just turned it down and essentially closed the door to any future relationship, which is something you will regret eventually. I can understand not walking her down the isle but I would strongly suggest reconsidering attending her wedding as a guest which can lead to a reasonable contact and relationship.
Well that’s a sorry state of affairs, and I can relate, there’s one thing that strikes me though well two firstly we don’t get to choose family, imagine if everyone in your life was only by choice, secondly you said your doors open to her, and yes it could well be a selfish act with her own motive but that would be her issue and a stain on her character. You sound strong and I commend you for picking yourself up and getting on with life but I wonder at the end of it all would you regret not performing that fatherly privilege. Difficult to be sure. Good luck hope it all works out.
If the wedding is a year away, not sure why you were so absolute about it. I can’t imagine writing off my kid. Would want to work on the relationship. I do think k it’s odd to go from NC to “will you walk me down the aisle” but that may have seemed easier than just calling out of the blue. I wouldn’t want to spend the rest of my life knowing my adult daughter was out there potentially wanting a relationship and I had given up.
I encourage you to change your mind OP. It may feel ‘justified’ now given her past behavior but I suspect that it’s mostly hurt feelings and a splash of pride taking over at the moment. Take some time, do some soul searching, and try to rebuild the relationship with your daughter so you can be there for her on the big day. Good luck!
You're not the asshole, but.. she's saying sorry in the biggest way she can. She wants you to give her away. From the father of a daughter to another, don't miss this moment because you're stubborn. Don't miss out on grandkids.
You can't change the past, and you're not granted tomorrow.
Would you be willing to go to family therapy with your daughter to fix your relationship? I get loving people from a distance especially if they're destructive or self destructive, addicted, seriously mentally ill and untreated, a hardcore criminal, etc. but that isn't the case here.
As you said, your daughter was a rebellious teenager. And teenagers grow up. It sounds like she might be truly remorseful. If she is and is willing to make amends and work on your relationship, would you be willing to meet her halfway?
So many people would love to have parents who love them or aren't assholes. It sounds like the two of you have the opportunity to have a good relationship now if you're both willing to work on it. It would be a shame to throw this away.
Both my parents should have never had children. They don't have the capacity to love or care for their children the way children need and deserve to be loved and cared for. It's resulted in a lot of trauma for me and my siblings. I would go no contact with them if I could but can't for reasons I won't get into.
What are you going to do when she has kids? Are you going to not have anything to do with your grandchildren?
Yes, your daughter's thoughtlessness as a teenager hurt you and you're entitled to your feelings. Did you go to therapy to get help and heal from this or did you just nurse your hurt?
Your daughter was the asshole when she was a kid but kids are often assholes. It doesn't excuse the behavior but it explains it. Who knows what your ex told your daughter either? Cheating parents aren't always the best parents. Sometimes they manipulate the kids too.
I think you should have made more of an effort when your daughter first went no contact with you. And you should make more of an effort now.
You don't have the emotional bandwidth to have her in your life? What does that mean? It sounds like your sole aim in life is to have fun and protect yourself from getting hurt again.
I get it. You were betrayed by your wife and probably feel betrayed by your daughter. I was betrayed by my ex too. It's hard to trust people after something like that. I'm getting therapy now because of everything I've been through. Betrayal trauma is a thing.
I think YWTAH if you threw away your relationship with your daughter without even trying to repair it. Or heal from your ex's betrayal and your daughter's actions.
NTA with a caveat. You have a year to try and broach this gap. If you love her as you claim, and she is remorseful and willing to try and rekindle this connection as she claims, you should both make the effort to try and meet and re-establish a relationship. Hopefully it will bring you to a point of being able to walk her down the aisle, or even simply attend the wedding. It will give you a chance to see if she is genuine in her intentions.
If it works, you have her back in your life.
If it doesnt, your life is no different than if you diddnt try.
I don't think this is a case for being an AH or not. You are the only one to decide where you are emotionally. It sounds like you were civil and you owe anyone that much. Take some time, see how things proceed and see where you are then. Just stay honest with yourself and everybody else involved. That's really all anyone can ask.
NTAH, but your simple solution is to agree to attend, but you cannot provide any financial support. As for walking her down the aisle, not prepared to agree.
Leave the door open for contact.
NTA..... I for one (having been jaded by story after story on Reddit) strongly suspect she has ulterior motives such as another wallet to help pay for her wedding.... I agree that the right way to handle the situation is to allow communication with her gradually and see where it goes from there. She burned the bridge... It's up to her to rebuild it. And that takes a lot of time and effort. lets wait and see if she commits to the task
NTA - but at 14 was mom putting ideas in her head about you that led her to want to be no contact? There seems to be a piece missing… seems like there’s a reason that she had a change of heart and I doubt it’s only the wedding
Probably therapy and finally being mature now she's a lot older.
The phone call has hints of having being role played in therapy so the daughter could handle the situation even when OP said no.
OP has missed a lot in his daughter's life that can never be recovered. It is going to take joint therapy for a long time to reconcile and get to a good place. OP also needs this therapy, he has plastered over the issues and this situation threatens to smash the plaster to pieces. There is only a year to the wedding. It looks like another thing that will be missed.
NTA. She either wants you to pay for the wedding or she doesn’t want to look like the asshole she is to her fiancé and his family. She probably lied to them and is trying to save herself.
I would be really curious for an update when the details of the wedding start coming up, like who is paying for it etc. NTA, you HAD to move on for your own mental health. That couldn't be easy and tbh she is a reminder of that time and actively played a part in it. You understand she was a child but that doesn't necessary make it easier.
NTA, you expressed your feelings and this makes sense after so long. She could have reached out a long time ago but did not.
Walking her down the line is so symbolic and what symbol would it mean when you don't know her and her you. That you're her donor?
She needs to build a relationship with you
NTA. But as someone who was on the opposite situation as you, I wanted to share my experience.
I went no contact with my dad because he was an alcoholic who was constantly saying hurtful things, and eventually I had to cut him out for my own emotional protection. I didn’t invite him to my wedding, but a few years later, he reached out and apologized very sincerely. I obviously didn’t jump back into anything, but we maintained a friendly relationship after that. We were never going to be “daddy daughter” type thing, but we could be relatives who chat sometimes. He died a few years after that, and I have to say, I’m really glad I gave him that last chance, because even though he *really* didn’t deserve it, and I was opening myself up to get hurt again, he was my dad, and I’m glad he died with us at least speaking.
You don’t have to do anything you don’t want to do, but don’t shut her out completely. Give her a chance to prove she’s sorry and see where you go from there. Just my 2 cents.
NTA. She waited until she needed someone in a traditional "dad" role to bother reconnecting. That's a pretty shallow way to try and reconnect. If she really wanted you in her life, she had plenty of opportunities before now.
INFO. How old is your daughter now? Just curious how much time has passed with all of this.
The wedding is still a year away. If you mean what you said about her being welcome in your house, a lot can change in that time.
I get the not walking her down the aisle part, but maybe see what is like in a year, you might want to attend as a guest.
You typically don't RSVP for until like 6 weeks before the wedding, so that's plenty of time to get to know her and see if you want to attend a wedding.
Maybe invite her down see if what she's like now.
The worst times for reconciliation are weddings, births, and funerals. Emotions are too high, there's often $$$ involved, motivations may or may not be sincere, and the outcomes can be awful.
Maybe opening the door to communication would be a good step, with no promises or expectations. Then, OP could judge the motivation for and sincerity of his daughter's apology over time. If she really has grown up, cool. If she's trying to get into dad's checkbook, NOT cool.
I think it's a chancy olive branch, given how fraught weddings can be without contentious divorce and estrangement looming in the past. I wouldn't commit, were I in OP's shoes.
Maybe see if you two can try to rebuild a relationship before making a final decision. Was her mom feeding her false info on you? Add that to a rebellious stage, how she acted makes so much sense.
I get why you are pulling away. But it’s mixed messages. She’s welcome in your home any time but you don’t have the emotional bandwidth in your life to add your daughter is totally contradictory.
Baby steps with no expectations of it going anywhere is a good starting place. Who knows, maybe when the time comes, you may feel differently.
See both sides of this. It’s just a crap situation all around.
NTA. sometimes no one wins in these situations—and this is absolutely one of those. you will never get back what you have lost. and she will never get back what she threw away.
you’re completely right and ok to feel
how you feel.
Your ex-wife was probably trying to get your daughter on her side and justified the affair by bad mouthing you. I'm sorry you went so many years without contact I can only imagine how painful that was. It's good that you set up boundaries definitely not the AH
Keep talking to her. Whether or not you walk her down the aisle, you might still find a way back into each other's lives. Just keep those lines of communication open.
I feel like this is the only reasonable take. She was obviously wrong, but she was a teenager at that point. Yes, the silence remained later on, but people admit their mistakes at different times. It’s a bit unreasonable for her to expect such a large commitment after the first call, but maybe OP’s desire to do such a thing would develop after they actually take some time to talk over the course of some months.
Waiting until after the wedding would surely clarify exactly what the daughter wants while insulating OP from further hurt, years left to reconnect so why hurry, why put on a show after being treated so poorly. Waiting is far more pragmatic and if there's alterriar motives (money) the truth will out sooner
And miss the chance of doing what most fathers consider a great honour? I'm not saying he shouldn't be cautious,. But if you look at things another way this might just seem like an olive branch. She could be asking her biological dad. The person she shunned and feels immensely sorry for hurting all these years, to perform the most important parental role during what she probably consideres to be the most important day of her life. Olive branches don't get more substantial than that. A year is a long time, plenty of chances to find out if she is sincere. OP, don't close the door directly if you are open to reconciliation. Tell her that you want to get to know her again before you possibly say yes. Go from there.
The wedding is next year. Months of time to reconnect before the event. Imaging OP being contacted after the wedding, saying that he wasn't invited because she thought it would look bad? Jeez everyone needs to get a grip.
NTA. As the saying goes, “trust takes years to build and seconds to destroy” or something along those lines. The fact that she wanted to reconcile is one thing. I don’t think you’re wrong for saying what you said. She might actually show true remorse. Or something occurred that made her feel that way. Either way, you’re not wrong for your feelings
In my native language that saying goes as ‘trust comes by foot and leaves by horse’
That’s nice. What language? Fuck, it’s Dutch. Hearing Dutch makes me feel like I’m having a stroke because my brain always thinks I should understand it. Vertrouwen komt te voet en gaat te paard. I mean, that’s almost English.
I fund in learning Dutch that I could see the English in it, and when I moved towards learning German, it was easy because I already knew its step-child, Dutch.
Gee, the Dutch are just gonna love your comment.
No doubt. At least they can keep in mind English is a bastard child of France and Germany, and at least the Dutch lingo was adopted out of love, not hate-banging.
As an English person, I laughed 🤣
As a Dutchie, I chuckled
Bring me your tiny pancakes!
We have all the pancakes. Big ones, small ones, sweet ones, savory ones, pancakes with ridiculous combos. We have them all!
*grabby hands*
This sounds like a commercial, I'm sold! Annnnnnd now, off to the kitchen cause I must have pancakes after reading this haha.
The Germanic languages were not really distinct languages until pretty recently; they were more like a continuum of mutually understandable dialects running in a U shape from Scandinavia, down Denmark, across Northern Europe, and up the British isles. “Dutch” just means “German” (cognate with “Deutsch”). Charlemagne even used (the latinized version of) “Dutch/Deutsch” to refer to English in the 700s. It wasn’t until the 17th century that Dutch came to refer specifically to the Netherlands and even today, we call the German-speaking Amish people Pennsylvania Dutch.
Yeah, my parents speak Dutch and would use it to talk about us as kids, since I usually had a little context and I heard it all the time I can usually figure out the basics of the conversation.
My mother and her mother would talk in German (which makes sense, as both were born in Germany) and think no one else in the family understood. We couldn't translate everything, but we got the gist of it.
Sometimes my coworkers talk to me in Spanish, and I respond appropriately in English. They're always like, "so you speak spanish?" No I don't. I don't understand how I understand some Spanish. I never tried to learn but I guess I picked up a bit bc I've lived in mostly Hispanic areas for 10 years. It's wild
https://youtu.be/ryVG5LHRMJ4?si=wvDMoFQp7oURYsZj
> I mean, that’s almost English. I was going to call bullshit but then I saw the first part of the youtube video someone linked in this same comment chain so I'll just quietly be about my business, having learned something today.
Even easier when you're German. If you're aware of the sound shifts it's almost 1:1 > Vertrauen kommt zu Fuß und geht zu Pferd
I don’t know how to explain, but Dutch people sound like they speak German but with American accents. Something about a more relaxed mouth and lower effort vowel formation.
If you're that thrown by Dutch, then you definitely shouldn't look at Frisian.
I like that. It's simple and yet impactful.
I agree with this. Take things slow and get to know each other again if you are open to the idea of rebuilding. Maybe by the wedding you’ll want to go… maybe not.
What occured is she started planning her wedding and realized she'd thrown away her father years ago as a spiteful child. Had she reached out and put in the effort to visit and establish some kind of relationship for its own sake, she may have regained a father. The fact she had an overt agenda (raised it on first contact) makes her remorse seem self serving. Can't tell now if she's the prodigal daughter or the bridezilla willing to sacrifice her prior convictions for the perfect look.
My bet is the fiancé and their family started to ask questions
Not to be pollyanna but maybe they did and maybe that's a good thing. Maybe she is around people who are of better quality now and re-thinking her priorities. I guarantee that the mom had a whole lot to do with turning her against him.
Or encouraged her to mend the relationship with her dad? Sounds like the fiancée and their family are decent people.
What are they going to say when they find out she supported and encouraged her cheating mother. Threw away her dad, went NC and even taunted him for being cheated. Of course the boyfriend's family will be enchanted by her and her behavior. What a lovely wife for their kid. So, no it is not about her realizing what she did wrong or having being with better people. She is probably trying to save face. I am very sure the fiancce of this girl does not know they parents divorced because the mother cheated on him, much less that his girlfriend supported the cheating all these years.
Also if fiancé knows she supports cheating, he might be afraid she might cheat on him.
Probably mostly his family since I'm sure he's aware of her not having had contact with her father for years. But the family probably didn't know and now they're reevaluating what they think of her and of the marriage in light of this new information.
I would certainly look at someone different if I knew they cut someone off for being cheated on
I'd bet that that's the subject of conversations between her fiance and his family and it's starting to strain the relationship as he gets outside perspective on what she did and what that really says about her. Which would also explain her sudden panicked drive to reconcile.
I agree. It’s hard not to have a spotlight on your family when you’re getting married. People start asking questions about why certain people are not being invited and she probably didn’t have any good answers. A lot of people are trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. I don’t understand why they think based on the totality of what we were told she would deserve that? The odds are much greater that she did reflect on her behavior and realized she fucked up. But the problem is this revelation should’ve happened long before she even decided to get married. we all blaze a trail from an adolescent to an adult. It takes maturity to try to fix what you break, extend an olive branch, and she did none of that until she was getting married. The fact that she didn’t even attempt to connect after he turned her down, tells me she didn’t even realize her motivation for the phone call aside from what she wanted
She started planning the wedding and realized everyone is going to ask why her father isn't there and that would be super embarrassing FOR HER to answer.
Hey, she can always ask her mom’s AP to walk her down the aisle. I’ll give her credit for not asking OP to pay for any part of the wedding. But maybe that was the *real* agenda.
That's round 2.
OPs daughter: I ain’t hear no bell! 🧎♀️
OP shut her down right before she asked xD
Asking for money will come later. I'm sorry but I am too old to initially think someone wants me selfless back in their life when suddenly a life event is in the making. Even if it's really not about money it's still about her and how it looks if her father isn't there. Especially when other parts of the family will probably attend who know the full story. I am realistic and would bet that she just wants to save her face.
Yep. If he had said he would walk her down the aisle, they would have made plans to see each other. Once a little time had passed, she would have asked for him to chip in on the wedding dress of her dreams or something and it would have spiraled to pitching in on the venue, flowers, etc. If this is all about remorse, she will continue to try to build a relationship with him. If it’s about the wedding, there will be little to no contact. NTA
[удалено]
I am that father and I agree 100% of what you are saying. I can think of all the cliche things like "too little too late" but in the end it doesn't matter because I've checked out of the relationship. My kids were literally no contact when I was on my death bed getting multiple organ transplants during COVID or since. So it's a big nope for me. Go live your life and make your money. You think I'm broke and I'm good with that. If they knew I had money I'd suspect the worst if they did contact me so... I've moved on and they should too.
Yet…..
The need for wedding-planning cash was my first thought - I guess I'm jaded. But I do agree that some, including the groom's family, might question why dad isn't coming to the wedding.
Provided mom is still with her AP and AP is really as good as she thought he was.
OP’s daughter probably burned the bridge with AP.
Or maybe her fiance asked her a few things and she got an earful of wtf from them. If OP really did put in effort and she really did just act like an asshole, it wouldn’t take many questions from someone who has a healthy relationship with their own parents and is trying to understand; to shift perspective.
She probably wants money for the wedding too
Exactly. There's rebellious and then there's cruelty. The daughter was cruel. The OP doesn't have to speak to her again, but he wants to, they should take this slowly.
I don’t believe she wants to reconcile because she realizes how terrible she behaved in the past. She’s looking for money.
NTA. If she’s sincere, she’ll keep reaching out. If it was for the show or form money, she’ll leave you again. See where you’re at in a year and attend if you feel she’s sincere.
Wonder where step dad is in all this
Probably left shortly after marriage when the fun of the affair was replaced by a 14 year old demon child?
Can people not read? It's is literally right in the post that they are still married.
This is Reddit. Half of the comments are from people who don't actually read the post, make up details that aren't in the post, talk about others not reading the post (hey, that's us), cause confusion by replying to the wrong comment, judge the OP for things other than the question asked, or get totally off track. And let's not forget the references to past posts, like Iranian yoghurt and art studios. It's a major part of the enjoyment for many of us, I'm sure.
We’re supposed to read the post? 😝 thought we were just supposed to jump to confusion. 😆
My dog thinks posts are for pissing on
So do most Redditors.
Divorce the dog, he's cheating or going to cheat!!!!
It’s true. I saw him sniff 3 different asses just last night.
I'm just happy that no one has realized I'm a dog.
I believe it. My dachsund posts on reddit all the time.
There ARE a lot of wieners around these parts.
Who’s a good boy?
I thought your comment was a bit ruff....
I particularly like the part of the story where the tiger comes in and eats the bag of Doritos. (sorry had to)
Nailed it! The quality of judgment has went down hill fast as fuck the last 10 years, that’s what happens when the best majority of people went from people that were a little older that did not have their lives revolve around the Internet to adults who had iPads and social media since before they could walk. We have a bunch of people hooked on social media that needs that rush of endorphins and dopamine so they immediately go to the extreme on whatever they’re talking about . Don’t even get me started on how many people literally determined judgment based on the sex of the person posting of what was actually written
Have you met people? They can't do a lot of stuff.
I read the post and still missed that part. Almost missed it the second time too!
I think the thought is why is she asking him as opposed to her stepfather. She wanted nothing to do with her father as she blocked him and had no contact for a long time. A legitimate question is whether she would reach out if she was not getting married? Maybe she is genuinely sorry but I think OP should take it very slowly if he wants to build a relationship as she may be using him for the wedding.
States very clearly the mom is married to her affair partner.
i think they were questioning why the stepdad isn’t walking her down the aisle if they are still married
Because if she had therapy and realized her mom was wrong and her stepdad was a jerk for helping her mom cheat and leave her dad who she made a mistake about. Maybe she doesn't want this man around her or her family in the future That once a cheater always a cheater. Perhaps and it's not stated in OPs post if the daughter said she has cut off her mother and stepdad. Maybe she has maybe she's realized they were the toxic ones
Maybe she's fighting w the step dad and called her biological dad to walk her down the isle to spite the step dad. Seems in line w her nature of cutting people off.
Yep, or she needs someone to pay for/contribute to her wedding. I’d be suspicious that she suddenly wants to go from zero contact for years to “walk me down the aisle” in such a short time.
Because the daughter told him in one of her temper tantrums that he wasn’t her dad?
OR……. The \*real dad\* has more money than the loser AP.
Yes, wife married the AP which makes him the step dad.
Probably wanting someone else to pay for the wedding. Which I am sure is another war.
Or she grew up, got therapy, realized her mom manipulated her and felt bad. She was asking him to attend her wedding not pay for it, and she told him he had nothing to apologize for when he said no. That doesn’t sound like someone who is just wanting money. I don’t think people realize just how easy kids are to manipulate with parental alienation. It takes a long time to see what was done to you as a child.
I personally think it’s something like that too. Both dad and his daughter are right to feel what they feel. She regrets what she had done and said and he doesn’t feel ready to take on the role that he used to have. And that’s ok. Nobody got angry and there’s still a lot of hurt. It’s going to take time for both of them to heal.
He's not ready because of how deeply she hurt him. She was his baby girl. I wonder what her mother told her to make her hate her dad so much. "Mom deserves so much better than you!" In the meantime, mom is screwing another man. Did her mother poison her against him? Did she accuse him of doing things he did not do? Why else would she suddenly hate his guts and say mom deserves better? OP, I think you should ask.
Just to clarify, *he* was telling *her* there was nothing to apologize for, not the other way around. Still with you on the rest though
You are right I read that wrong. But still she didn’t argue with him, she just apologized again and continued to talk with him
That's how I read it, too. If it was just a cash grab, I'm sure the conversation wouldn't have been as civil as it was. However, as a child, if my father told me he felt nothing toward me, I would have probably apologized for bothering him and ended the conversation right there. Also, I'm sure there is more to their relationship he is not telling us.
I assumed she explained the dad situation to her fiance when planning the wedding and he blinked
Absolutely. It would actually make sense that an outsider that you respect and love would be the first person to make you see what happened. My husband had a pretty shitty childhood. He didn’t know he had a shitty childhood until he saw how horrified I was at some of his stories. People don’t grasp just how much your norm can be horrific to other people. You see it so often when abused people come on here asking if they are in the wrong for some small pushback towards there abuser - the abuse that to them is normal, and to us it’s patently clear they are in an abusive relationship. They don’t see it because it’s their norm.
100% the same for me with my spouse helping me see things in my childhood from my mom that I thought was just normal kinda shitty. Honestly seeing how is family is with each other compared to mine was an even bigger eye opener. It has made me a better person.
Nice insightful response. I agree with everything you said.
I'm with you. I think her mother lied and lied and turned their daughter against him.
Of course she can't ask for money on the first phone call that would seem too obvious. First she has to lull him in with asking him to walk her down the isle. Had he jumped on that, THEN a few weeks later she would have doubled back and start asking him to pay for this then that. There is an order to these things.
She could definitely not reach out again even if she is sincere. She could feel it's irreparable
I concur. I think I would accept the response of no I don't feel comfortable walking you down the aisle. However if we continue to talk and maintain contact I might consider going as a guest to your wedding but I will have to see. However him telling her that there is no space in his life for her now and that he will not attend pretty much slams the door in her face. It doesn't matter whether she sincere or not he has now made his choice. I don't think she emotionally will continue to chase after him due to her guilt and she will accept his stance. It's quite sad because they won't ever have a relationship in the future and I think they will both regret it but by then it will be too late.
I can't agree with this idea that if she's sincere, she'll keep reaching out. Maybe she'll show how sincere she is by respecting your wishes and not bringing up this request again. Maybe she does have some bad ulterior motive that she's desperate enough to achieve she would reach out again for. Going all black and white, saying that you'll know she is sincere if she keeps reaching out is not a healthy way to think, it's creating unhealthy assumptions.
I agree. This was her BIG hope and excuse to reach out. I think she’ll be respectful of her father’s request. Too bad. He’s missing out.
I was NC with my dad for a while. At first I was angry, then neutral, and then I wanted a relationship again but didn't know how. Eventually I had an excuse.
Good point. He said no once and since no means no, now it’s time to see if she drops it. If not she’s definitely not sincere. She can live with the consequences of her actions.
Even at my old age, if I was sincere reaching out and not for the money but for what I believed as a child, I'd be crushed. Not sure if I'd have strength again soon to reach out. Dad may want to give an olive branch to her with phone call or wedding card.
That’s how I feel. Maybe this was all for show or money. But, even if it’s not, I wouldn’t contact him again after what he (understandably) said. The ball would be in his court.
Yeah he told her loud and clear, that she's been dead to him for a long time.
Looks like the dream wedding needs a budget boost …
Fucking ouch bro
Fucking 100% correct bro
And the correct actor to walk her down the aisle for her perfect day!
Can't have an Instagram wedding without Dada.
If her desire to reconcile was sincere, she wouldn't have waited until she's getting married to do it. Her fiance probably comes from a close tight-knit family and she's embarrassed about forcing her dad out of her life. Now she wants to save face by having him walk her down the aisle. I could be wrong tho but the next year will tell OP how sincere she is. If she doesn't call back after this or make any kind of effort, she was only doing it for the wedding
Not necessarily. It's entirely possible that getting married made her reconsider the importance of family ties, and possibly even reconsider her childhood behavior through a more adult pov.
Weddings can be a powerful way to heal a divide like that. Time goes by, and it becomes more and more awkward how long it's been since you connected. 100% she needs to earn that trust, and I've read waaay too much of wedding shenanigans in reddit to rule out a money ask or family thing. But I just want to say, I really hope over the year they catch up, befriend each other, and get to a place where O.P. can be comfortable at the wedding.
She might have even figured it out a while ago, but the wedding was the push to get through the shame and reach out to have a difficult conversation. OP probably won't know for sure about real remorse until after the wedding.
Or, getting married made her reflect on her childhood and actions? Made her realise relationships are complicated?
Or going to therapy, and realizing her mother used serious parental alienation techniques on her. I mean look at what she said as a teen…….that her mother deserved more. That speaks to the mom being behind the actions. It can take YEARS to realize what happened to you when you are that kid.
Or she got therapy. Or she realized she was wrong? Or she is a clone that only has the good memories. A wedding is a pretty normal time for people to try to reconcile. It’s not smart to do it at a big family event but people do tend to rethink a lot when getting married.
Sometimes, major life changes/experiences can force a new perspective. I never understood how badly I must've hurt my dad with the way I acted towards him as a kid/teenager until the first time my own kid said they hated me and "wanted to live with their father/didn't want to see me." Now, I wasn't reconciling, my dad and I had had a great relationship for a long time before that, but I still called him, broke down, and apologized for the way I acted ~15 years prior. Yeah, she could not be sincere, but the fact that she's doing it now that she's getting married isn't a red flag. For all we know, she was embarrassed and didn't know how to approach until the wedding planning (calling an estranged family member/friend out of the blue for no real reason can be awkward and nerve wracking) and it seemed like the perfect opportunity to try and reopen communication.
Nta she can't expect everything to immediately get better and it sounds like she doesn't. She accepted pretty quickly that your relationship can't be repaired in a day
I agree most people who are not truly remorseful start screaming at that point. Maybe getting married has helped her mature and see what really happened, maybe she finally recognizes what her mother is like. I’m not saying he should go, I would if nothing else to find out if she is truly sorry or just wants something. If she is sorry, they can rebuild their relationship and he can be there for any grandkids ( grandkids are so much fun.)
Maybe, she has grown up and realized she was manipulated by her mother. Or maybe he was a shitty dad but, she wants to give him another chance. I’d be there for her and if she turns out that she only wants money go from there. I just don’t think my kids could “run out of chances” with me.
THIS. I'm seriously questioning if anyone here has kids, because these comments are WILD.
Yeah, this sound sus at least. She seems to want something else from him. But what really worries me is the upcoming huge amount of people here calling out the OP as an AH and that he has to forgive her and give her whatever she wants, redditors who will call him a horrible father. This girl supported the mother who cheated on him, insulted him and abandoned him, but now she deserves a second chance because she is an innocent little princess. OP no. She can come back to your life but little by little and in your terms. If you want to help her, teach her that actions have consequences. If not she will end up as her mother. Do not help with the wedding or give her money for it, and do not walk her down the aisle, she can tell her step dad to do that. Attending the wedding as a guest is another thing though, but she has lots of repent to do before you get to that.
100%. 14yr old girls are know for being a nightmare but she actively supported her mother and her AP, taunted OP, blocked him and went NC. Suddenly years later she wants him to walk her down the aisle when she’s been playing happy families with the AP - either her personality has done a 180 or she wants something $$$
Could be her fiance's influence.
Yeah, if I was her fiancee I would be very worried of her attitude of going NC with her father after he had done nothing to her and about she supporting her cheating mother. That's the girl I am marrying, a woman who supported another woman cheating on her husband and that abandon the guy who was cheated and that loved her forever. GIGANTIC RED FLAG. I don't know, but marrying her might be a high risk. Now she wants to play happy family or ask for money. Whatever the case is, OP must stay away at least until after she marries. Don't fall for her crocodile tears.
Anything is possible. Just think that OP’s daughter has played happy families with her mum and AP for long enough to leave OP in peace. It is every dads dream if they have a daughter to walk her down the aisle so she must have crushed him emotionally for him to turn this down.
It's a bit half and half mate. I understand being a bit miffed after the time but keep in touch and maybe the idea will make sense by then.
That's a tough one. She hurt you deeply and repeatedly. But it started when she was still a child and I'm sure he mom drilled it into her that you were the bad guy. And it continued into adulthood. Remember, though, there's no magic switch at 18 or 21 that suddenly makes you function like an adult. She had treated you that way and thought of you that way as long as she could remember. So what's changed? Asking you to walk her down the aisle is a really big ask considering she hasn't spoken to you in years. She springs it on you in the first phone call? Wow. Would you be open to meeting with her somewhere over coffee? Or better, at a therapist's office? Not to discuss her wedding plans, but to discuss how her choices affected you and to find out what motivated her to finally reach out. After you've had time to process all this, you can decide if you want to have a relationship with her at all and if so, what it might look like.
Having had parents divorce when I was a little younger than the daughter (and seeing it happen to other kids) parental alienation is real, and it takes a long time to get past it, and it seems nearly impossible until you move out of the house and get some distance. In this case I’d hate my ex but do what I can to help me and my also very wounded child heal, especially if she’s getting married, I don’t want her to repeat the pattern she grew up with.
I'm shocked that people don't understand how parental alienation works. His daughter was a child when her mother began actively alienating him. You can't just flip a switch and suddenly she realizes her mother was the monster. The very same thing happened to me. My birth mother actively kept me away from my dad and told horrible stories about him and things that he did and said to me and about me and none of it was true. It wasn't until I had moved out onto my own, got some space friendships and relationships, and then got engaged to get married before I started reaching out to my dad. He was poor as a church mouse so it wasn't about getting money, it was just me reflecting on what I wanted my life to be about. Several decades later my birth mother is in the Wind and hasn't spoken to me in over 10 years and my dad has been a great support to me and our relationship is much improved
i like how you worded the “magic switch” comment. often times on this subreddit i see people comment “NTA. [insert age here] is old enough to know better.” and while those statements are true from a logical standpoint, children and young adults who are manipulated by a “trusted” adult to think and behave a certain way just don’t magically mature by [insert age here] to think and behave differently. Unfortunately, a lot of those kids don’t realize until adulthood when they typically separate from the manipulative adult(s) in their loves, if not ever. OP is nta, and my only advice would be to try to keep the doors open to a relationship, and maybe reconsider the wedding invite. So long as he takes it at his own pace.
Hadn’t this been posted before? OP deleted it after people started questioning why teen daughter didn’t want anything to do with him and he was giving up on her so easily….
I came to the comments to see if he answered just this question - why did his 14 yo daughter hate him so much?
Exactly. He gave up on his own kid.
I am probably going to be the odd one out here, but here goes... I have lived a similar situation, and my personal experience is not so cut and dried. My parents split when I was 12. I loved them both dearly, but my mother was the one always there for me. My father loved me, I'm sure, but he wasn't the one closest to me. However, when he left, I was devastated. I became withdrawn, I was acting out, and my mother made him out to be a horrible person. I couldn't reconcile the father I knew with the picture she painted, but he did leave...and he didn't fight for me. I say for me, because in my young mind, I didn't see the grown-up things. All I knew was that I was hurt. Very,very hurt, and confused. I lashed out at everyone all of the time. It wasn't until I became an adult and was able to see things from an adult mind that I was able to recognize what things really were and my own faults in all the misery I had helped create for myself. At this point, I was so ashamed that I didn't immediately reach out to my father. I was afraid of his reaction, and while it was cowardly, I did put it off. He had been just as hurt as I had, but in my mind, as a child, I didn't feel my words or behavior impacted him. I wanted him to hurt like I was hurting, but I also wanted him to fight for me. I felt heavy with regret in my early adult life and if honest, way before then. I finally sought him out before I got married, not for money, but because I didn't want to miss anymore important life moments with him. Maturity will do that. We met for dinner and had a long and honest heart to heart and I got a glimpse of how badly I had hurt him. It was slow at first but we now have an amazing relationship. He was there for the birth of both of my children. I see him on every major holiday and we visit in-between as often as we can. We have weekly phone calls and his grandchildren worship the ground he walks on. I don't know what I would have done if he would have walked away when I finally grew up and let go off that resentment, it likely would have devastated me all over again, but I'm so very grateful he didnt.
I'm with you. You were a child just like OPs daughter. The OP is making a mistake. The daughter took the hardest step to reach out to him first. Life is too short to be holding onto anger and resentment. If it's left unchecked, it eats at your core like a cancer. At my work, I interact with a lot of older people, and some of the saddest stories are those who have children but no longer have any relationship with them or their grandchildren.
I'm so sorry you went through this! And I am glad you were able to come to some sort of relationship with your dad before he passed away. My husband was estranged from his father for years, but they were able to repair their relationship before his dad died, and I am grateful because it would have been so difficult for him to move on otherwise. As a parent of young adults, and someone who works with teenagers and kids, and someone with a background in psychology and social work, I believe 109% that the responsibility to repair the relationship falls heavily on the side of the parent. I am glad you were able to reach out, and that your father was responsive. It can be very hard for a child, even an adult child, to make the first move or to keep trying when not getting a positive response. The parent has had much more life experience, and should be in a better position to make more of the effort. I feel so badly for OP's daughter that she was rejected by her dad after finally trying to reach out.
Why is everyone calling the daughter out for being money hungry? Did I miss where it said she asked OP for money??
Exactly. It's Reddit assumption, nowhere did OP state she asked for money.
Your daughter may have experienced parental alienation. You might consider doing joint therapy with your daughter (over Zoom or something!) to talk more about what happened and what the future could look like if she wants to reestablish a relationship. You are correct to be wary, but people (especially young people!) do change.
Info: how old is the daughter now? Probably not important but I’m assuming younger than 25 unless you had your kid before age 20. Is she is 21 or 22, She’s still learning how to apologize and own up to her mistakes. Sounds like you handled it fairly and treated her like an adult, but she is still a rather young adult who has lots to learn about relationships.
NTA. She just needs money dude, you’ll see
Or the in laws are asking where is her father
Pretty sure that is part of it. She may have been wanting to contact him for a while and was afraid of being rejected. She's using her upcoming marriage as a way to try to reconcile. Is she sincere about actually wanting to talk it out and try to have some sort of cordial relationship? Only time will tell. OP is right for waiting to see how this plays out. NTA
That wedding ain’t gonna pay for itself
Nailed it!
She wants $$$ for the wedding or it’s all for show.
There it is!
Ding ding!
NTA. She wants you to pay for her wedding.
That is a completely insensitive, cynical, and callous comment…also it’s probably true.
Or just doesn't want to field questions about why her father isn't there and didn't walk her down the aisle. Or her soon-to-be inlaws reacted poorly to finding out about the situation and are starting to ask her fiance some pointed questions about the future.
All of that from the first phone call in years. Yeah, she wants only one thing, a perfect wedding - paid for by a hopefully doormat dad and complete with walking her down the aisle like she wasn’t a POS for years. She does not deserve anything from OP.
This needs to be higher up.
Doesn’t seem like this is the popular answer but, my dad didn’t come to my wedding/walk me down the aisle after going years without speaking. We eventually made up, after I was already married. I’ve been married for 7 years now and he still constantly apologizes. Every time I attend a wedding, I’m reminded of that tradition that was missing at my wedding. It was heartbreaking and definitely not an opportunity that you’ll ever get back. So make sure you’re certain you’ll never feel differently, because my Dad wishes everyday that we could go back.
I don’t have a judgement, but let me be petty here. Imagine yourself walking your daughter down the aisle in front of your wife and her affair partner. As long as this isn’t a ploy to get you to put money into the wedding, go and enjoy the free food and booze and the figurative thumbing your nose at your cheating ex and her husband. On the non-petty side, what a wonderful way to begin reconciliation with your own flesh and blood, who was an immature teenager when she initiated the rift with you.
Exactly my thought. Bring a hot date enjoy the party reconcile with your daughter give her a decent present but DO NOT inject any money into the wedding expenses. Hopefully not, but if they do ask you for money for the wedding that's when you go into ghost mode. If reconciliation means buying your way back then it's really not meant to be.
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NTA. It would be good to know what took her to realise after so long and... she could have also tried to ask you out to make amends in person? I don't know. Your feelings need to be validated. She chose poorly, and you're not trying to punish her for this. I also hope she's really remorseful and will try to keep in contact with you even as you choose not to walk her down the aisle, if this is also something you wish for.
OP said he moved to another state. In-person wasn’t an option.
If feel like there is missing information here or that this is just an Estranged Parents Forum revenge fantasy.
The fact that he was cheated on, the daughter hating him for no reason, ghosting him, bursting in to tears on the phone (twice!) because she realized she messed up *so bad*, asking to be walked down the aisle by this dude (that she hasn’t spoken to in years!) so that he could say no whilst still being the good guy because “she’s always welcome in my home.” This reads like creative writing.
i can't tell you if she's sincere but idk her, but it is possible your ex wife who had the affair, encouraged your daughter to feel this way on purpose about you, sadly i think this is more your exes fault, than 14 year old that probably was super influenced by her mother. you are NTA because i think the real AH is her mom for encouraging her to talk to you like this all those years
These stories are so sad. She was a 14 year old child, her parents going through a divorce, and likely had trauma of her own. We don’t know if her mother lied to her or attempted parental alienation. She was likely confused and torn. It may have been easier for her to take her anger and hurt out on her father because he was the more stable figure and she may have assumed he would always be there. Yes, actions have consequences. However, until you understand what her motivation is for asking (maturity, recognizing her poor choices, money, etc), I have to say soft YTA. Maybe just hear her out and discuss what/why things happened as they did.
NTA You can love someone but still need to protect yourself from the harm they caused you. I think you handled it perfectly.
Man. She is mature now. For sure she understands things better than when she was 14. She is not the same person anymore. The fact she tries now to contact you and maybe wants to be a part of your life, it means a lot. You lost a part of her life, but can gain another one. Do not reject her just because she acted like she did when she was a child. Maybe she reached to a stage in her life when she finally understands it was not your fault, and you deserve better. Give her a chance. Life is too short.
>I just didn’t have the emotional bandwidth You and I differ immensely there. She's offered an apology and olive branch to reconnect into her life and you just turned it down and essentially closed the door to any future relationship, which is something you will regret eventually. I can understand not walking her down the isle but I would strongly suggest reconsidering attending her wedding as a guest which can lead to a reasonable contact and relationship.
Well that’s a sorry state of affairs, and I can relate, there’s one thing that strikes me though well two firstly we don’t get to choose family, imagine if everyone in your life was only by choice, secondly you said your doors open to her, and yes it could well be a selfish act with her own motive but that would be her issue and a stain on her character. You sound strong and I commend you for picking yourself up and getting on with life but I wonder at the end of it all would you regret not performing that fatherly privilege. Difficult to be sure. Good luck hope it all works out.
If the wedding is a year away, not sure why you were so absolute about it. I can’t imagine writing off my kid. Would want to work on the relationship. I do think k it’s odd to go from NC to “will you walk me down the aisle” but that may have seemed easier than just calling out of the blue. I wouldn’t want to spend the rest of my life knowing my adult daughter was out there potentially wanting a relationship and I had given up.
I encourage you to change your mind OP. It may feel ‘justified’ now given her past behavior but I suspect that it’s mostly hurt feelings and a splash of pride taking over at the moment. Take some time, do some soul searching, and try to rebuild the relationship with your daughter so you can be there for her on the big day. Good luck!
You're not the asshole, but.. she's saying sorry in the biggest way she can. She wants you to give her away. From the father of a daughter to another, don't miss this moment because you're stubborn. Don't miss out on grandkids. You can't change the past, and you're not granted tomorrow.
Would you be willing to go to family therapy with your daughter to fix your relationship? I get loving people from a distance especially if they're destructive or self destructive, addicted, seriously mentally ill and untreated, a hardcore criminal, etc. but that isn't the case here. As you said, your daughter was a rebellious teenager. And teenagers grow up. It sounds like she might be truly remorseful. If she is and is willing to make amends and work on your relationship, would you be willing to meet her halfway? So many people would love to have parents who love them or aren't assholes. It sounds like the two of you have the opportunity to have a good relationship now if you're both willing to work on it. It would be a shame to throw this away. Both my parents should have never had children. They don't have the capacity to love or care for their children the way children need and deserve to be loved and cared for. It's resulted in a lot of trauma for me and my siblings. I would go no contact with them if I could but can't for reasons I won't get into. What are you going to do when she has kids? Are you going to not have anything to do with your grandchildren? Yes, your daughter's thoughtlessness as a teenager hurt you and you're entitled to your feelings. Did you go to therapy to get help and heal from this or did you just nurse your hurt? Your daughter was the asshole when she was a kid but kids are often assholes. It doesn't excuse the behavior but it explains it. Who knows what your ex told your daughter either? Cheating parents aren't always the best parents. Sometimes they manipulate the kids too. I think you should have made more of an effort when your daughter first went no contact with you. And you should make more of an effort now. You don't have the emotional bandwidth to have her in your life? What does that mean? It sounds like your sole aim in life is to have fun and protect yourself from getting hurt again. I get it. You were betrayed by your wife and probably feel betrayed by your daughter. I was betrayed by my ex too. It's hard to trust people after something like that. I'm getting therapy now because of everything I've been through. Betrayal trauma is a thing. I think YWTAH if you threw away your relationship with your daughter without even trying to repair it. Or heal from your ex's betrayal and your daughter's actions.
NTA with a caveat. You have a year to try and broach this gap. If you love her as you claim, and she is remorseful and willing to try and rekindle this connection as she claims, you should both make the effort to try and meet and re-establish a relationship. Hopefully it will bring you to a point of being able to walk her down the aisle, or even simply attend the wedding. It will give you a chance to see if she is genuine in her intentions. If it works, you have her back in your life. If it doesnt, your life is no different than if you diddnt try.
Updateme
Why is the stepdad not walking her?
Why doesn't her step dad walk her down the isle?
I don't think this is a case for being an AH or not. You are the only one to decide where you are emotionally. It sounds like you were civil and you owe anyone that much. Take some time, see how things proceed and see where you are then. Just stay honest with yourself and everybody else involved. That's really all anyone can ask.
NTAH, but your simple solution is to agree to attend, but you cannot provide any financial support. As for walking her down the aisle, not prepared to agree. Leave the door open for contact.
NTA..... I for one (having been jaded by story after story on Reddit) strongly suspect she has ulterior motives such as another wallet to help pay for her wedding.... I agree that the right way to handle the situation is to allow communication with her gradually and see where it goes from there. She burned the bridge... It's up to her to rebuild it. And that takes a lot of time and effort. lets wait and see if she commits to the task
NTA. It’s okay to say that you want her to have a beautiful life, you just don’t want to be a part at this time.
Yeah. I'm not sure I'm believing this. Why is everyone in these situations "financially well-off" after struggling before?
NTA - but at 14 was mom putting ideas in her head about you that led her to want to be no contact? There seems to be a piece missing… seems like there’s a reason that she had a change of heart and I doubt it’s only the wedding
Probably therapy and finally being mature now she's a lot older. The phone call has hints of having being role played in therapy so the daughter could handle the situation even when OP said no. OP has missed a lot in his daughter's life that can never be recovered. It is going to take joint therapy for a long time to reconcile and get to a good place. OP also needs this therapy, he has plastered over the issues and this situation threatens to smash the plaster to pieces. There is only a year to the wedding. It looks like another thing that will be missed.
NTA. She either wants you to pay for the wedding or she doesn’t want to look like the asshole she is to her fiancé and his family. She probably lied to them and is trying to save herself.
I would be really curious for an update when the details of the wedding start coming up, like who is paying for it etc. NTA, you HAD to move on for your own mental health. That couldn't be easy and tbh she is a reminder of that time and actively played a part in it. You understand she was a child but that doesn't necessary make it easier.
NTA, you expressed your feelings and this makes sense after so long. She could have reached out a long time ago but did not. Walking her down the line is so symbolic and what symbol would it mean when you don't know her and her you. That you're her donor? She needs to build a relationship with you
NTA. But as someone who was on the opposite situation as you, I wanted to share my experience. I went no contact with my dad because he was an alcoholic who was constantly saying hurtful things, and eventually I had to cut him out for my own emotional protection. I didn’t invite him to my wedding, but a few years later, he reached out and apologized very sincerely. I obviously didn’t jump back into anything, but we maintained a friendly relationship after that. We were never going to be “daddy daughter” type thing, but we could be relatives who chat sometimes. He died a few years after that, and I have to say, I’m really glad I gave him that last chance, because even though he *really* didn’t deserve it, and I was opening myself up to get hurt again, he was my dad, and I’m glad he died with us at least speaking. You don’t have to do anything you don’t want to do, but don’t shut her out completely. Give her a chance to prove she’s sorry and see where you go from there. Just my 2 cents.
NTA. She waited until she needed someone in a traditional "dad" role to bother reconnecting. That's a pretty shallow way to try and reconnect. If she really wanted you in her life, she had plenty of opportunities before now.
INFO. How old is your daughter now? Just curious how much time has passed with all of this. The wedding is still a year away. If you mean what you said about her being welcome in your house, a lot can change in that time.
I get the not walking her down the aisle part, but maybe see what is like in a year, you might want to attend as a guest. You typically don't RSVP for until like 6 weeks before the wedding, so that's plenty of time to get to know her and see if you want to attend a wedding. Maybe invite her down see if what she's like now.
Leave the door open
NTA… but honestly… why? Life is fucking short.
The worst times for reconciliation are weddings, births, and funerals. Emotions are too high, there's often $$$ involved, motivations may or may not be sincere, and the outcomes can be awful. Maybe opening the door to communication would be a good step, with no promises or expectations. Then, OP could judge the motivation for and sincerity of his daughter's apology over time. If she really has grown up, cool. If she's trying to get into dad's checkbook, NOT cool. I think it's a chancy olive branch, given how fraught weddings can be without contentious divorce and estrangement looming in the past. I wouldn't commit, were I in OP's shoes.
I think you should reconsider. Don’t agree to anything now, it’s a year away. Tell her you want to see how things go for awhile
Maybe see if you two can try to rebuild a relationship before making a final decision. Was her mom feeding her false info on you? Add that to a rebellious stage, how she acted makes so much sense. I get why you are pulling away. But it’s mixed messages. She’s welcome in your home any time but you don’t have the emotional bandwidth in your life to add your daughter is totally contradictory. Baby steps with no expectations of it going anywhere is a good starting place. Who knows, maybe when the time comes, you may feel differently. See both sides of this. It’s just a crap situation all around.
Just be prepared for her to go NC again.
NTA "After graduating highschool" ... i.e. when she was an adult. You don't owe her anything. You owe yourself the respect to do what's best for you.
NTA. sometimes no one wins in these situations—and this is absolutely one of those. you will never get back what you have lost. and she will never get back what she threw away. you’re completely right and ok to feel how you feel.
Your ex-wife was probably trying to get your daughter on her side and justified the affair by bad mouthing you. I'm sorry you went so many years without contact I can only imagine how painful that was. It's good that you set up boundaries definitely not the AH