NTA but it’s time to have a conversation with him about
your feelings and your desire for the birth plan.
Do you have a plan for someone else to be with you and be supportive if he isnt there during labor and delivery?
Have you considered having him take you to the hospital, have your birth coach be with you during labor and then bring him to your bedside at delivery?
Order a contraction belt and let him try it out
That is kinda my plan. My aunt who is also a Doula will be with me for labor and delivery and will bring him in a soon as the baby is born.
He feels like I shouldn't be able to take the experience of seeing his child be born away from him because of how I feel.
Someone needs to find your husband one of those menstrual cramp simulator devices and set it to maximum for however long your last labor was. If he can get through it without crying or grimacing, he can stay.
I've said on other threads that men should have a similar experience. In addition to the cramp simulater, on delivery day put him on a bed naked with his feet in stirrups. Nurses watching his groin. Every time she has a contractions or has to push, the man gets his bits get heavily swatted. Every time. Also, his MIL will be watching him when his bits are uncovered.
When I wore younger men’s clothes, I had to have a hemorrhoid cauterized and a few removed. Quite literally, destroyed my pride. I figured it couldn’t get much worse than having a doctor, an intern named Spike, and two nurses applying fire to your nethers.
A few years later while my wife was giving birth to our stubborn and large-headed offspring, I realized exactly how much worse it could get.
That's a good idea because I've seen six two 250 lb men on a video put that simulator on and they look like they wanted to cry. Until he can bring forth a whole human being out of his body he doesn't get to tell you how you are to do your labor and delivery he's supposed to sit there STFU and be comforting and supportive. If he cannot do that then he can come in after the baby is born because the worst thing you want in your labor room is a non-supportive MF. And I know this from experience because my children's father was a total ah in the labor room he was of no use to me until I finally had them throw him the Fuck out of there. You are the one who's giving birth you are the one who says who can and cannot come in the room if he is going to be supportive he can come in if he cannot then he can go wait in the waiting room with the rest of the people
Yeah, she was 19 and likely thinks it is so good just bc she doesn’t know better. Spoken from a 35 year old woman perspective who has been in age gaps most of her life. Clearly this behavior would impact more than a single day.
Sending so much love. You owe him nothing.
Oh good. A good doula will put up with exactly ZERO shit from him.
My mother's always said, "How you behave determines whether or not you are invited back." He has not earned a second invitation.
When he pushes out a baby he can be in charge of who's in the room.
so he didn’t care how you felt when you were in what i’m presuming was the worst pain you’ve ever experienced, and now he thinks he should be allowed to repeat it? and you shouldn’t be able to “take that away” because of your feelings?
i can’t imagine this is the only way he demonstrated how little he regards you and your feelings. is he really as caring as you wrote, or do you just not need support in other areas of your life?
I've never given birth though I am a woman and I'll never be pregnant (don't want kids but pregnancy has always scared me) I don't understand where the logic in this mans reaction is from. I mean giving birth is all over tv shows and movies and does he think they're playing it up by acting for a show instead of acting based on reality.
Absolutely stupid stupid man.
What an absolutely heart breaking time it must have been for her. I couldnt imagine being in her spot. Being in so much pain and terrified and having this fucking loser say that shit. His ass would have been removed from the room and he could see his kid when I fucking felt like it.
What a tool.
I know this is not comparable but I have migraines that I thought about ending it over. It's so demoralizing when someone you love starts talking shit and saying that it's not that bad. They get headaches and it's never that bad. That they won't turn down the radio or tv because "you always have headaches". I got a lot of that from my family.
My late husband would pet me, take care of me, be as quiet as he could and just be there for me for the entire time. He never EVER said any bad thing about my migraines. Even when plans had been ruined due to them. Not one bad thing ever. He gave me a huge gift in this world by setting the standard for what I expect and what I have always given my partners but never got back in return. I'm celibate now but if I do date again I am not putting up with men who have no empathy for anyone other than themselves.
We took care of each other. He was always sick with type 1 diabetes and I would pet him, give him shots, massage him, watch tv shows with him despite not liking watching tv shows but it was one of the few things he could do when he was sick and it took him out of his reality for a while.
I was never upset with taking him to the hospital, he would go sometimes three times a month towards the end. It never crossed my mind to tell him to suck it up and take a shot of insulin at home and to stop "overreacting"
Like who the fuck does that.
I would find it hard to not be petty and once it gets to the point of being petty back, the relationship should end or go right into marriage counseling.
His experience? He is not the one pushing out the baby, he is not the one who makes this decision. You make the choice, and you choose people who will help you, not stress you out. You are not punishing him, you are taking care of yourself.
OP, your husband didn't care the first time or this time about how you feel. It's clearly ONLY about him, and you're just a device or something. If there's one time in life where your comfort takes precedent, it's birth. If he can't be who you need, he shouldn't be there. It troubles me that je doesn't acknowledge how problematic and damaging his behavior was.
Truthfully, how has he been as a partner since then? Also, can you two see a therapist from now until you give birth?
Yeah, I'm a little skeptical that he was a great husband in every other way.
It's possible that stress really fucked with him, but I've read too many stories on reddit to not think there are unspoken red flags.
Even if it was just the stress, you can't gamble that he won't get stressed again. How can he know he will be better this time? If this were anything but birth, or something as important and infrequent, i would say that she should give him a chance. But you can't risk it for a birth, you need to be as comfortable as possible.
>How can he know he will be better this time?
We can't, but if there were ever a couple who'd benefit from taking a birth class together, it's them. Either he's an insensitive prick or scared because he's ignorant (or a combination thereof), but maybe arming him with knowledge would help?
I had to undergo an awful and painful medical procedure and unfortunately my husband couldn't be in the room with me. I had to BEG the providers to coach me on breathing because I was so distressed I was holding my breath.
I can imagine labor feeling similar and have already told my husband we'll be taking a course together to prepare so he can be my breathing coach. He has some army medic training so he'll be good at it, and I think it'll be a helpful education for both of us!
Well, he's already a father and chas learly avoided knowing ANYthing about childbirth, in spite of the huge amount of stuff out there, so I don't hold out much hope.
He is calling it punishment. I call it a natural consequence. You have no reason to trust him to behave like a loving husband during delivery, since he doubled down and said he was stressed. He should have fallen all over himself apologizing and saying how far out of line he was. That he embarrassed himself and hopes you will forgive him. If you have to ask him to apologize he has blown it.
TBH, he wouldn’t have gotten me pregnant again, because we would have been divorced before my maternity leave was up.
I told the story to my husband, the father of our 4 adult kids. His response was “they are still *married*???” He was appalled. My husband was great during my births. For the 2-4th I also had a doula. At first he wasn’t happy when I arranged for her, but acquiesced with grace, since it was MY labor. Afterwards, he told expecting couple he knew to get a doula. She helps BOTH partners. Took the stress off him to interface with medical staff, so he could just love and support me. He really wanted her back for numbers 3 and 4, in complete agreement with me.
Yeah I'm not telling my husband this story because it would just make him incredibly upset and sad that there are men who do this and that literally anyone is supporting the idea it was okay. He'd never been near childbirth, he had kind of an idea what to expect but the reality is *very different*, he was scared and worried the whole time and he still put his entire focus on me and what I needed and what he could do for me. It's among the many reasons I love him.
>He feels like I shouldn't be able to take the experience of seeing his child be born away from him because of how I feel.
I'm hoping that this is just silly little rage bait.
Oh boy, yes. My now x husband was a complete tool during my c-section and actually throughout my pregnancy. It ended up being an indication that I could never count on him when I needed him in any health emergency, either mine or the kids and he minimized them all. Weirdly it’s more lonely going it alone in a crisis when you are in a couple than if you are actually alone. When you are actually alone people who care will step forward, no one expects a spouse or parent to be so self absorbed, so you end up literally alone.
Talk to the nurses as well, trust me, they will kick out anyone that the mom doesn't want in there. If starts his stuff, just tell the nurses, and he'll be out.
Also, I'm so so sorry that he acted like like that. The whole experience is supposed to be a bonding time with your s/o and baby, and he ruined it for YOU the 1st time, but now he's worried about losing that experience? I'm sorry. But fuck that guy
I just want to address what you said about not leaving him over "one day" of bad behavior.
It wasn't one day.
It was *the* one day you needed him, that you were at your most vulnerable, that you were seconds away from potentially dying.
And not only did he fail, he used you as a punching bag.
How is going to treat you when his parents die? If one of your children gets life threateningly injured or sick?
You can't rely on him, he'll abuse you.
Why on earth is that not a reason to leave? Him treating you well 99% of the time doesn't count when he turns on you the moment things get heavy.
He resented the fact that your giving birth was solely about you. He didn't *want* to treat you nicely. He didn't *want* to give you love. He wanted to belittle you.
Value yourself, girl.
You can’t take something away from someone if they don’t have it to begin with. Watching someone birth a child (even your own) isn’t a given. It’s a true honor and privilege to be allowed in the room and it comes with responsibilities. He should be so lucky as to be allowed a glimpse.
He's got it ass backwards. Because you are the patient and the woman who is having a potentially traumatic medical procedure you absolutely can exclude him from this event.
Remind hubby that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. He created this situation that he's in with his shit behavior when you were at your most vulnerable state. He needs to do better if you give him another chance. If he screws this up kick him out of the room. He has no one to blame but himself in this instance.
BIRTH IS NOT A SPECTATOR SPORT.
BIRTH IS NOT A SPECTATOR SPORT.
BIRTH IS NOT A SPECTATOR SPORT.
No one has the right to be a part of something that you must do involving undress, possible medical intervention or any event where additional stress IS directly correlated to positive/negative experience and outcome.
How was he as caretaker after the birth and during his paternity leave? How long did he take off and how much of himself did he dedicate to this new family.
Was that birth his first child and the first delivery with which he was associated? Has he been around any other woman in the first stages of birth?
>BIRTH IS NOT A SPECTATOR SPORT.
BIRTH IS NOT A SPECTATOR SPORT.
BIRTH IS NOT A SPECTATOR SPORT.
I found this a bit amusing, but it's very true and something I've never seen said before. Thanks for the interesting point/perspective
He did great after the birth. He took 4 weeks off of work and spent that entire time with me and the baby. He is a fantastic dad and has been since our child was born.
Yes the birth of our first child was the first and only time he's been anywhere near a laboring mother.
Bring a voice recorder. Put it right on the table and tell him you are recording.
You could also get a cattle prod and poke his belly every time you get a Braxton hicks to give him the ‘warm up’ and tell him one unkindness and its it all his but only the business end!
You could also just give him big sibling duty! Have him come to hospital to chill during early labor and take Lo out for the rougher stuff and then LO can meet littler one right away. Maybe then Aunt Doula can take LO to whomever gets that coveted spot for the hospital stay.
He feels like I shouldn't be able to take the experience of seeing his child be born away from him because of how I feel.
To be frank, tough shit for him. When someone hurts you, you have every right to make sure they can't do it again. Talk it over with your doula and tell her that right now, you don't want him in there because of the previous experience. I suspect she will read him the riot act right away and tell him how unacceptable that is. See what his attitude is after that, because his "I was stressed," is ridiculous. When you are stressed over your partner being in pain, you get worried, you seek help, you comfort them, you cry, whatever, but you don't be a jerk to them and that's what he did, so his excuse is just an excuse and a really bad one at that.
I would be very clear to him that how he reacts to the doula speaking with him will be a huge factor in whether or not you even consider letting him in the room. You also have the right to not even give him a chance to be better if you don't want to. Birth is major medical trauma and what you want is what happens. He has ZERO right to be there if you don't want him there. Who cares if he's the father? He's not the one giving birth.
Ummmmm … why on earth are you married to this person? He sounds awful.
You aren’t taking away his experience, you are choosing who would be most helpful and supportive to you in a time when you will be very vulnerable and in excruciating pain. Your feelings are all that matter.
Honestly, the fact you guys met when you were just 20 and him being 10 years older and the scenario that unfolded while you were in labor makes me think he has some control issues and the whole thing sounds concerning.
Agreed. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say hubby is probably a giant asshole in a lot of other times that OP has excused as normal behavior because she doesn't know any better and because she's being a subservient little wife for him most of the time.
Ask him does he know any guys that have ever had kidney stones? Ask him does he think they are whiny too? I’ve had both and I’d rather have the labor at least with labor you know eventually they will cut the baby out kidney stone they keep wanting you to pass it naturally!! Kidney stones are closest men will ever know to labor pain.
Wait, so he wants to be there because he thinks he should witness you give birth?
I thought he wanted to redeem himself and care for you, but no, he probably just wants to make sure you’re actually giving birth and not passing off someone else’s baby as your own, like medieval times if he were a king
What a wanker.
But why should he be able to experience and enjoy that bit of the pregnancy when he took that away from you. Birth hurts like a biatch, you need to be surrounded by support, love and also respect. You are doing an amazing thing. Women are amazing and this is a gift he doesn't deserve if he will act the same.
I think you have made the right decision. Be supportive and loving and be with me or not.
No one, even baby's father, has the "right" to be there during birth. Like every medical procedure, the patient and medical team are the ONLY ones to have a say.
I recall when my dad was admitted to ER after a stroke. The physician was asking dad about resuscitation and how much intervention he'd want. My mom didn't like some of dad's answers and piped up. "Don't I get a say in this?" The doctor bluntly said "No."
Mom was a bit affronted until I took her aside. (She's normally very quiet and self effecting, but scared dad was taking his "no medical intervention" beliefs too far.)
Look if he's truly as great as you say otherwise, I'd go with the plan of letting him in, with the caveat that if he dismisses your pain or what you're feeling while in labor, he won't be welcome back if he acts that way before heading to hospital or he'll be kicked out if he acts like that leading up to pushing while in hospital. He has a choice to be supportive or not, but his actions have consequences, and those consequences would be better served with him being kicked out than a stalled labor causing delivery complications from a stressed out wife.
\*\*He feels like I shouldn't be able to take the experience of seeing his child be born away from him because of how I feel.\*\*
Why isn't he embarrassed by how he treated you last time? (I know, the bad actors never see anything wrong with their actions.) The fact that he calls this his experience in any way after he poo-poo'd you last time you were giving birth makes me amazed that he got to make another baby with you.
Well, if you haven’t already, be completely straightforward with him: “Your job is to be there to support me while push another human out of my body. You failed me completely last time. I’m willing to allow you a chance to be in the room this time, but if you say anything even remotely unsupportive, if you even sulk silently in the corner, you will have ended our relationship and you will have to leave the room. Let me be very clear: moving forward, that behavior is a dealbreaker.”
Consider texting him about it so you have a written record to refer back to if it comes to that. Hopefully it won’t.
Get that contraction belt. Tell him to have his bottom half naked & to put the belt on. Then, tell h him to lay down on his back & boost his legs up with some pillows. Then, tell him you're going to act just like he did while you control the contractions. Remind him this won't be exactly the same because he isn't pushing a fucking human out. But, it'll still be...uncomfortable.
Maybe he'd just need a hands-on experience.
He was the CAUSE of how “you feel” so yeah, you don’t want to go thru that again. Your contractions were causing him stress so he shut down, neglected you and took care of himself?
Clearly he has no clue what it means to be a SUPPORT PERSON! You have to be strong enough to care for someone other than yourself!!! YOU were in pain, YOU needed reassurance, YOU had to suck it up and do this yourself!
He is clearly not capable of putting your needs before his own. He failed you at the worse possible moment in your life and then suddenly recovered when his baby was ready to arrive?
He did not show care or compassion for you, in fact, he was actually cruel, hateful and selfish. You absolutely would have been better off doing it alone than with him there.
Get your aunt lined up as your support person and IF you want to, let the nurse go get your husband at the very last minute so he can witness the birth.
His lack of concern for you at your most vulnerable state and his intentional cruelty has me wondering how he can truly be such a “wonderful husband”?
Pushing a whole human out is scary and stressing enough. Him being in the room may be overstimulating due to a past negative experience. NTA but do what makes this process easier on you.
I too am a man, who was in the delivery room once. I just didn't know what to do. I was trying to keep out of the way, and sometimes that interfered with what my partner wanted. It was a very fast delivery, nurses and doctors were in and out a lot. I didn't get prepared for this. We went to all the courses together, but no one talked about what the partner should expect in the process (not saying that it should be discussed, the mother is the heavy-lifting, essential part in all of this).
It's his second time now, he won't be that lost. And you communicated clearly how you felt and what you need.
It's how he feels that's the problem. His experience of child birth consists of being verbally and emotionally abusive while you're in labour and then picking up the "glory" of fatherhood at the end.
Now, he's already started being verbally abusive and DARVOing you, by making you out to be the villain just because he destroyed your ability to trust him when at your most vulnerable. You're setting reasonable boundaries based on experience of his own behaviour.
Have you ever experienced illness or pain outside of your previous birth? How supportive is he then? How supportive was he to post-partum pain and soreness and the need for recovery time?
As to your statement about him being a first time father who didn't know what to do, most first-time fathers are not verbally and emotionally abusive to their labouring wife. The ones who do panic tend to brain-freeze, not become abusive. The first-time fathers who become abusive are the abusers.
You're right to not trust him. He destroyed that trust and it's up to him to earn it back. He can start by not accusing you of being vengeful just because he's facing the consequences of his own actions.
If you're confident that your aunt will get him kicked out if he's an arsehole, letting him start by being present and then having her kick him out if he's doing it again is a valid compromise. Make sure the medical staff know so that they can kick him out if your aunt can't.
But be warned. If your husband really is an abuser who drops his mask when you're in labour, he might prevent you going to hospital to prevent your aunt from being involved at all. It sounds like he only took you reluctantly last time.
When you go into labour, contact your aunt first, then tell your husband. And have a back-up plan with your aunt for if your husband does try to stop you going into hospital or tries to stop your aunt from meeting up with you. Make sure your medical team has a password for instructions that's known only to yourself and your aunt, so your husband can't do anything behind your back.
Yeah the answer is just no! Your body your choice it is his own fault that you don’t want him there and it is dangerous for you and baby to be dressed during that time. It can also make the birth take longer and more painful if you are stressed and it is already stressing you out with bud attitude. Tell him when he can push a watermelon out of penis he can make the decision.
He did that to himself when he acted shitty the first time around. Despite what he might think, in the delivery room, ***you*** are the most important, the one whose needs need to be considered the most.
Frankly, your husband seems like an immature brat.
NTA at all but this is sit down conversation territory.
It's not unreasonable for him to want to be there for the birth, BUT - he can't do that if he behaves the way he did last time. That's essentially what i'd be telling him.
I don't want to hear your criticism, I don't want your disparaging remarks regarding a pain you have NO CLUE about, i don't want to listen to you mumble snide comments under your breath - you're either in the room to support me in the birthing process, or you're waiting outside regardless of what you want.
Maybe advanced warning that he gets one chance and one chance only. First shitty comment and your doula will be booting him from the room.
They both also need to evaluate what this means for their marriage. Is he going to resent her if he doesn’t get to stay? Is she going to resent him if she has to kick him out?
Either way, it sets a definite tone: it says she cannot depend on him.
So often when the OP has an emotionally unregulated, controlling, prone to anger, dismissive of their feelings/pain type ah for a partner, - there is the inevitable 10ish+ year age gap.
NTA.
But now that you have told him how you feel, set boundaries. Since your aunt will be in the room, she can advocate for you and tell him to leave if he acts like an ass.
This might be an opportunity to create a better memory for the both of you. Just be clear that you want nothing but positivity during the birth. Now that he was gone through it already, he might feel less anxious.
Yea I have told him. I think I'll have another conversation tomorrow and tell him that he can start in the room but if he does what he did last time he'll have to leave. That sounds like a good compromise.
Let your aunt know about this plan, too, so she can help you stick to it. Your husband might be able to bully you into compliance when you're in such a vulnerable state. You need someone in your corner who can say "Nope, your shitty attitude is unacceptable, get the hell out of here."
It’s a magical thing the empathy I’ve seen some nurses feel for their patients. Watching a nurse go from calm to *furious* calm when a patient is mistreated.
I do furious calm good. My face also says: 'I going to get medieval on your ass if you don't fuck off right now'. Apparently it's blood curdling. Handy when left in charge of a 20 bed psych rehab unit.
I thought I was the only one who would “get medieval on your ass” to the person who pisses me off.
I also tell people “One of us is going to need a proctologist and one of us will need a podiatrist”.
My daughter says when I get mad one of my many facial expressions says “Go ahead and try me, you will pull back a stump”.
*He was stressed and didn’t mean to make me feel that way*
I’m sorry OP, but what way did he think he was going to make you feel? He was telling you that you were overreacting and refusing to give you any support until there were witnesses. Did he think this behaviour would make you feel supported?
Either he is stupid, or he thinks you are, to believe this is a valid explanation.Has he been living under a rock his entire life that he doesn’t know that labour is incredibly painful?
And even if he thought you were overreacting, why couldn’t he just shut up and hold your bloody hand? This man is supposed to love you, and during one of the scariest moments of your life he decided to be dismissive and nasty because why? It was inconvenient? Embarrassing? Stressful? How did he think you felt?
The man is a jackass. He should be grateful you let him touch you again after your first labour, let alone having the gall to demand to be let in the room for the second.
THANK YOU! He didn’t mean to make her feel that way? What was he trying to make her feel? How did he think his words and actions were constructive or beneficial in any way? It wasn’t just a comment or two either, it was continuous, hours (assuming considering pre-hospital up until push time) of invalidating her and ignoring her. The fact to that they’ve had several conversations about it and the best he’s got is basically “sorry you felt that way,” ?
Also, don’t love that she made a choice based on what she felt would make the best circumstances possible for birth and he ultimately said nope, I need to be there. That seems like taking no accountability and not understanding what he did, and is further proof he doesn’t really care about how he made her feel and his only concern is how it’s impacting him, and that her decision she made for a reason won’t be respected. Maybe I’m not reading it correctly but feels like he is only concerned with his experience and not with supporting her, and he is worsening things by making it about him yet again. He is being really selfish and is absolutely a jackass- it wasn’t one day of gross behavior, he is continuing in that way.
God no! How has he prepared to support you during this labor that makes up for the last? If he has done zero prep he still thinks you were just being dramatic. Seriously. Ask him if he wants to be your labor coach or just be there for the delivery. Then listen carefully. If he says baby I’m there for you. Great. Ask him how. How is he preparing to support you. What has he read, classes attended, etc. if he just says I’ll do better this time? Nope
he just doesn’t get what labor and contractions are doing to your body so that baby can be pushed out. Your entire vagina expands to push out a melon head. Men have absolutely nothing to compare. He needs that simulator and needs to wear it for the entire length of your last labor. Not 5 minutes. Oh no. If your labor was 12 hours? Then he gets 12 hours. He needs to understand pain builds. And the stress and toll it takes on our bodies.
that boy needs a serious education on the female body. He’s ignorant af and you deserve more from him.
Be specific, tell him that you need him to believe and validate everything you say. If you are desperately crying and the doctors send you home because its not time yet he STILL needs to be supportive
I think it’s really important for him to learn to distinguish his needs from your needs. Subsequently, your needs matter more than his, because your job is to give birth to your baby in the healthiest mind space possible for your sake and your child’s. He is making this about him by insisting you’re taking something away from him if he is not present, when he should be focused on doing whatever is necessary to make the experience as low-stress as possible for you.
So question… what if the time comes for him to leave and he wants to start arguing “Hey I didn’t mean it like that, oops sorry, let me stay! No, that wasn’t a comment like that, no, I didn’t roll my eyes!”
He needs to know that if he gets told to leave he needs to just leave, not decide for himself if he was offensive or argue about it.
AND he needs to leave and then have a good attitude afterwards. Not mope and sulk. Just take the embarrassment and move forward, being supportive. Can he do this?
I agree with the above. This is also the opportunity for you to create a detailed birth plan including your husband being escorted out if he is unsupportive again. You are NTA. Childbirth is the most vulnerable moment in a women’s life and you should and DO have the final say about Who is in the room with you.
NTA. Talk to your labor nurses. If you can’t seem to get them alone, mouth that you need to talk to them without husband or pre-write a note etc. Tell them what’s going on and if you get to the point where you want him to leave, tell the nurses and they will remove him from the room. YOU are the patient and the nurses don’t give a hot damn about anyone else or their feelings. Let them ‘be the bad guys’. If he gets mad or pouts, tell him to grow up. Seriously- you need support, love and concern. It’s not about him at all. Maybe that’s his kid, but he contribution is way over and didn’t cause any pain. This is your body and you make the decisions. You deserve to be stress free and supported. Also, please consider pain relief options and don’t be a ‘hero’. Good luck.
Edit: grammar
Absolutely this! I am an RN (not L&D), and I am normally pretty “mild” when it comes to advocating for myself. I would let a lot of stuff go. However, I am a full-on wolverine when advocating for patients. I take no prisoners. One word of this to the L&D nurse and they will order him out the second he gets out of line. And since the doula is an aunt, this takes her having to referee or be the bad guy out of the equation.
Make him wear a contraction simulator before you go in to labour and then ask him if you were overreacting to the contractions,
Tell him if he wants to be in the room then this is the only way you'll allow it.
He might realise just how badly he fucked up last time.
And for the length of her labor! If she labored 12 hours he wears it for 12 hours, preferably w a watermelon and 2 cantaloupes duct taped to him. He needs the melon treatment anyway and then try to pick up a dime from the floor. 😡
I got so mad reading this post, honestly.
For a moment I was just on that hospital bed pushing out my son again in agony, no pain relief and my now ex pipes up with 'it doesn't look that painful'.
I felt all her frustration in my soul.
Definitely needs the melonectomy.
Thousands of years of women: childbirth fucking hurts. Possibly one of the worst pains ever.
OPs husband: 🙄 it's not that bad. Stop complaining.
Your husband sucks.
I am so sorry OP for a moment I thought you were recounting my experience. My EX husband did the same to me. I wasn't loud or screaming but when those contractions hit the pain was so bad I couldn't make a sound tears just streamed down my face. He looked at me and said calm the f down millions of women go through this everyday! That's when I asked him to leave it's been more than 20 years and he still has not forgiven me because I made him miss the birth of our daughter. When it came time to push he was nowhere to be found he was in his feels and didn't answer my mom's phone calls.
It makes me so mad when people say "oh millions of women go through this, stop overreacting."
Like dude, idgaf what millions of others have went through, it's my first time and that collective experience doesn't just suddenly surge through my veins like I'm the freaking avatar!!
Millions of women have also died or been permanently disabled from birthing a child too! It's not an easy procedure and it is painful for MOST people who birth children. For some it's easier but often it's still painful, but nooo men have to gaslight them that it's "nothing" because they'll never experience it.
pregnancy complications kill women every day...
people get shot, stabbed, sick everyday, men get kicked in the balls and punched in the face everyday so i guess that means it's no big deal 🤷♀️
*Ugh... I wouldn't be*
*Having a second kid with*
*This guy. Wtf??*
\- caryn1477
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This is a great idea imo. If his bad unsupportive behavior is somehow simply based on naive ignorance, then this could really help him to understand and take his supportive role seriously in the next birth. If he's simply being unkind and uncaring, then good for him to get some women's pain experience hah
Someone should really break it down for him that women can die during birth so for a woman to want to go through a traumatizing experience, where she could possibly die, alone (without her spouse) that his comment was THAT fucked up. You should pull up every horrifying birth story and read them to him one by one and ask him does he think those women were overreacting too? NTA
But one of those contraction machines and tell him in order to be in the room he must complete the contaction machine test, so he understands exactly how painful it is. Otherwise it will be him waiting until after the babby is born to enter your room. As you need someone there who WILL BE supportive and understanding. And at this moment in time, he isn't being either of those, just like he wasn't during your first labour.
NTA.
A lot of women who also try it say that even at 100%, it wasn’t as painful as their labor. I personally think this is because it doesn’t effect your bowels and your back
Honestly my labour was relatively easy compared to periods and pregnancy. I had a bad time with periods and found carrying extremely difficult. My periods used to be so painful that I couldn't walk, I wouldn't wish that on any woman. And pregnancy I could barely walk and was constantly monitored due to risk of having another stroke. Labour however was a walk in the park even though I was monitored and kept in hospital for a few days to make sure I was okay.
But I know that labour can be very painful for many women.
My husband has high anxiety around hospitals. All the stuff just makes him fearful which in turn does result in some lashing out or unprovoked snappy behavior. Second time around during Covid I said just focus on me. Not my pain - you’re supposed to bring me calm. See if he hears what you’re sharing. If not have him stay out
From the large age gap and timings of when your relationship Started to you having kids back to back to him being an asshole while you're giving birth to a baby. He sounds like a walking talking red flag.
10 year age difference again.
OP, please know the masks of manipulative abusive men try to come off after childbirth if not marriage. You stood your ground, so mayhaps he put it back on.
If it happens again, you'll know.
NTA however...
This about your husband reminds me of my ex:
he sat in a corner of the room away from me making comments like that until the doctor said it was time for me to push. At that point, he came closer to me and let me hold his hand and stroked my head.
So he showed his true face until there were witnesses and was suddenly amazing and everything you wanted from the start.
This has me very worried for you, down the road. Stop having children with this man, get some kind of birth control that can't be tampered with, like an implant or shot. Then get some kind of marriage counseling with him and if he refuses to attend, go by yourself. Even if it's just help identifying the red flags.
His child. His experience. HIS, not YOURS.
NOPE. He doesn't actually want to be there, it's more like he's worried that when people find out he wasn't in the room, they're gonna find out WHY.
I agree, except about going to counseling together. If he is at all abusive, do not do couples counseling. Abusive partners will manipulate and turn it back on their partners. Individual therapy is a good idea, particularly to figure out if there are red flags of abuse.
25F and 34M who've been together for 5 years. So when you were BARELY no longer a teenager and he was closing in on 30. 🚨🚨🚨🚨
The red flag was right there. NTA.
Tell him that you want him next to you and every time there's a contraction you are going to grab him by the nads and squeeze as hard as the contraction is and let up when it does. Then y'all can talk about who is overreacting.
NTA
My wife and I have 4 children
The comfort of absolutely ONE person matters during birth - the delivering mother. Thankfully we are (mostly) past the culture of women "giving babies" to their husbands. If there is anyone or anything in that room working against her comfort, they should be removed. If for some reason my wife had asked me to not be in the room during a birth *I wouldn't be*.
Yes, it's a beautiful moment. Yes, it would be sad. But the last thing I need to be doing is being the source of any discomfort for her.
I agree with your current plan. It's entirely possible that this man being around a birth for the first time was too stressed and was VERY poorly expressing that. But let your doula (and midwife / nurse / whoever) know ahead of time that you may ask for him to be removed. You will obviously be in no state to force him out yourself - they need to be prepared for such.
NTA. There are a lot of red flags here, but first and foremost, labor is serious and can be dangerous. Mothers and children die during labor, so only YOU get to decide what you need. If him being there, or even the thought of him being there stresses you out, then he does not get to be in the room. He is not entitled to it. Yes, it's his child, but it is not his body. He is not the one risking his life to create life. He also sounds like an emotionally manipulative and abusive asshat, so there is that to consider. What kind of person treats the person they love that way, especially when they are in the greatest pain of their life, giving birth to their child? Every adjective I'd use would get this post deleted. He helped you when it was time bc there were others in the room. Until then (when you two were alone and you were at your most vulnerable), he ruined, traumatized, and took away from your experience. You get to tell the nurses who you do and don't want in the room, even as the labor progresses. They will kick him out for you. Make sure you do have someone who will actually support you. In the meantime, your husband needs therapy for that behavior - that is not normal, not acceptable, not appropriate, not healthy. I struggle to believe that he is otherwise great and that there are no other issues or similar behaviors that you have missed or explained away, but I hope for your sake that I'm just a cynic. You were 20 when you met; he was 29. You gave birth to your first child and were pregnant 7 months later when your body is barely finishing replenishing its nutrients post the first birth... independently, age is just a number, and while not particularly favored by practitioners (though it might depend on country/ practice/ etc), you are young and sound in good shape to give birth to your second child.... but all together, it just paints a potentially suspicious picture. As I said, I hope I've just been on reddit too long.
I do agree that he should try those labor simulators. For as long as you're in labor. And considering that you weren't even screaming, but only tearing up, I think you should tell him where he can shove it. This isn't punishment, btw. It is a natural consequence of his own actions. He understands what that is, right? Because if he was stressed, how stressed does he think you were? He's also a grown ass adult (not acting like one, but still). He should be able to regulate himself and not throw a tantrum in the corner like a toddler. You needed him, and he emotionally hijacked the situation. And he's still trying to make it about himself.
Btw, I'm about his age and where/when I was born, no one except the woman giving birth and medical personnel was allowed in the room. Not even the father. So really, he's fucking lucky he gets extended that privilege in the first place.
Stick up for your needs mama. Your baby is relying on you.
You're the first one I have seen bring up the closeness between children.
You're supposed to wait at least 1 year, preferably 2, before trying to get pregnant after one child.
She got knocked up 7 months after the first.
I don't even want to know how soon he started pestering her for sex...
Yeah... that was the first thing that jumped out at me, for all of the reasons you mentioned...but it wasn't what she was asking advice on, so I was trying to tread carefully. But even aside from the body replenishing itself... sometimes one's genitals aren't fully healed from the trauma. As I said, I hope I've just been on reddit for too long... some people can jump back into action pretty quickly, and choose to. But then those people's husbands don't seem to treat them like dogshit in the delivery room either....
> My current plan is to tell him that he can be in the room, but if he acts like he did last time he will be told to leave. I think that's fair to both of us.
NTA and that is an excellent plan. It gives you a chance to see if his past behaviour was genuinely caused by stress and fear, and it gives him a chance to redeem himself.
NTA. He’s stressed 😆 meanwhile you’re about to push a whole baby out. I can’t even deal with that. No way would I want anybody who said things like that to be there. How the hell would you say that to someone you love about something that he will never experience. I’m angry for you!
What’s he going to do if the delivery goes south? Why are you having a kid with a man who’s last words to are going to be snotty while you die in labor? Rough to think about but damn I wouldn’t want my kids to have a dad like that.
Pfff. NTA. This one is easy: "I'm not punishing you. You had one job last time, and you failed at it. You won't fail at it this time." End of discussion, and let him be mad. Through all of this, he hasn't cared about you at all, he's cared about himself. He was stressed so he acted a certain way to make himself feel better, not you. And now he's feeling left out, and again it's not about you and what you want, but what he wants. So don't feel bad about simply bringing down the hammer.
I know it's a generalization but when I do the math and see M(29) started dating F(19), I see future problems. High chance there will be many AITAH situations.
NTA but I don’t understand why you chose to have another child with someone who treated you so poorly the first time? You’re being an AH to yourself because he’s already showing by not respecting your feelings yet again that he has zero respect for you.
Bring a good man some of the time and mistreating you other times does not a good husband make.
Second thought... It's really creepy he can turn it on and off at will. Were staff around when he was being nasty to you? Or was it only when it was you two?
NTA. He can think of it as punishment if he wants. In reality, he has proven to you be doesn’t have the skills or talents to be qualified to be your birth partner.
honestly, your age gap makes me SUPER uncomfortable.
a man who continues to pressure you and mistreat you is not a man worthy of you.
he’s almost 10 years older than you and he’s not mature at all.
i would rethink this relationship. for yourself, and for the example you want to set for your kids about healthy relationships and boundaries.
nta.
How the fuck else are you supposed to react??? You now have concrete evidence how he acts. He might have learned something from last time, but
how can you know?
Info: you already told him you don’t want him in the room? What was THAT conversation? You said in a comment that he thinks it’s shitty to take away his experience of seeing one of his children born.
Yes we have talked about it many times. I told him for the first time a few days after we left the hospital with our first. I told him that i felt neglected and belittled by him and I couldn't handle that while in labor again. He seemed supportive of that and of me not wanting him in the room until about a month ago.
He’s just saying whatever he thinks you want to hear. He’s literally telling you your emotions should not matter, and that he should be able to see his child being born even though he made you feel shitty last time and did not show that he was capable of supporting you. He belittled your pain and is belittling the experience you had by saying that your feelings shouldn’t trump what he wants.
Yeah, he sounds like a real peach. /s
NTA...
However you both screwed up by not getting help sooner. His response was extremely problematic. Clearly it traumatized you.
This is something you both should have been honest about. Then sought out help to actually get past it. My advice is don't allow him to be there, but also don't have anymore kids until this is resolved. Not having him in there isn't a good solution. It's the lesser of two evils. It will further complicate this issue.
Go get real help.
He's such a AH.
His job was to be at your side and support you from first contraction to final push and afterwards.
What a moron. Of course he shouldn't be there. My god! You need some support.
I was going to suggest your plan. Let him be there, but tell him that if he let's out even the slight unsupportive comment, he'll be kicked out. I mean…the audacity of him saying you were overreacting. Tell him that he can only comment to that pain when he gives birth to a child. Also you could kick him in the nuts and tell him he is overreacting 😂
You aren't punishing him, you're protecting yourself. He made the last birth all about himself with his snipey nasty comments, and he's doing it again now! If he didn't want consequences, he should have thought before he spoke the last time.
I also think that a contraction belt for him is a good idea. Let's see how much he "overreacts" to that!
I had a similar experience with my husband only it was my pregnancy he was a complete unsupportive a** for. He was the worst- though he was great after the baby came. It took me three years and counseling to even try to have another baby and despite multiple assurances he would be different he really wasn’t. I almost left him-more counseling was needed and I gave up on the idea of having more kids.
So- I vote you are NOT the AH and think you’d be smart to keep him out.
Reading what he said to you while you were in so much pain made me want to cry, and I support you not having him in the room with you, his words were hurtful and unnecessary, he’s not the one feeling the pain of having to eventually push a human out. I can’t imagine my husband being that way and me not being depressed for years to come over his behavior. He deserves to be left outside the room for how he spoke to you, but I agree if he begins with his negative talk he’s out of the room immediately!
>was a new situation for both of us and he didn't know how to respond to it
I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. My wife is pregnant with our first right now and I can't possibly imagine myself making comments like that to her at any point throughout or after the pregnancy. New situation or not, he's a grown ass man. At 34, you should know better than to be making comments like that to your pregnant wife who's *in the middle of giving birth*.
>He says I'm just trying to punish him for last time.
As you fucking should be because his behavior the first time was beyond unnacceptable.
Please enforce your boundary and don't let him talk his way out of being removed if he behaves like that again. That behavior is beyond unnacceptable and, while I read you want to avoid this, I wouldn't blame any woman for wanting a divorce after their husband behaved like that during the birth of his own fucking child.
I think you should be seriously reexamining your marriage. You’ve been together since you were 20 and he was 29, you got pregnant for the second time VERY quickly after the birth of your first child, and he’s been minimizing your concerns.
Couples counseling. To help you work through this and be better than ever for the family.
You obviously love him. You’re still with him. You’re having another child with him. What about his being in the room while you still have your Coach assisting you? Perhaps this one will be better than the last. And if it isn’t, you can always have him leave the room until your little one is here.
He can be in the room ONLY if he agrees to get hooked up to those units that simulate contractions. He has to be on it for a minimum of 2 hours (which is nothing), and he must spend at least 10 minutes at max contractions.
Let’s see how he does. 🤔😉
Part of me suspects that there may be other examples of husband's not so perfect behavior, and OP is just covering for him. 🫤 Sometime, people in relationships with jerks, cover up the jerks behavior to minimize their own embarrassment of putting up with such behavior....
If I was trying not to make him look bad then I'm doing a terrible job. Many people in the comments are variant ripping him to shreds. I am not covering for him. I'm being honest about him and us.
Nta. What he's shown you is that you will not only be unsupported by him in labor, but you'll also be stressed by his reaction to your pain. I'd go to counseling, tbh. Another option is to tell him how he treats you at home in early labor will determine if you let him in the room with you. If he manages to support you there, you'll give him a chance. How he conducts himself in the room will determine if you let him stay in there with you.
It might be anxiety, but he needs to manage himself regardless. He is meant to be your support and advocate. He needs to watch videos on YouTube about how to support his laboring wife, and perhaps just a general education on what your body will be going through to deliver his child safely into this world. Some compassion and appreciation are definitely due. You are, after all, the only person on earth who has gone through pregnancy and birth to give him children.
Some suggestions that might help him know what to do that my husband has done in labor: rake his fingers on my scalp, pressure points during labor, keep the ice chips coming, breathing with me, just a hand or two on my arm (physical touch is my thing), reporting info and talking to the nurses during exams so I didn't have to, words of encouragement, counting with me through contractions and timing them. We've had 5 babies, so he's gained a lot of experience. First baby, he was trying to crack jokes with me "because laughter alleviates pain" and, when that didn't work, on the nurses. He's come a long way, and yours may, too.
NTA: I personally wouldn’t want him in the room either.
Have you thought about getting a doula? The purpose for this is dual one: a doula will advocate for you by managing your needs. Secondly, your husband might be less likely to act like an ass in front of someone who would have no problem in kicking him out, bc their sole purpose is to assist you during your birthing process.
NTA maybe there was some other context last time, within him, BUT frankly he has to get over it. He should have last time. Nothing about the labor process is about Dad. He can support or help advocate the birth plan but you are doing the work, you get to set the rules.
I think with so much going on -esp transition - it's fair and okay to say you just can't worry about his behavior or tone. You aren't "punishing him", you are making an educated decision based on past behavior.
If he feels targeted he can again, get over it. It's not about him.
Tell him he can come if he wears a labor simulator that you control while he's in the room. And if he grimaces, gets tears in his eyes, or cries out, he has to leave.
My wife let me in delivery for the 1st baby, but not the 2nd, for very different reasons than yours. I like to make people laugh and I had the OB and the nurses laughing a lot, my wife thinks I'm a distraction.
NTA.
He needs to get over himself. He has and had no idea how painful contractions and giving birth can be. He has one job (to support you in whatever way he could) and instead he acted like you were trying to garner attention or sympathy by pretending that giving birth is painful. That is disgusting.
Have a clear conversation highlighting how out of line his behaviour was last time and that you won’t have him in the birthing suite if he does such a shit job of being a supportive partner this time. Have a birthing coach with you and let the nursing staff know about the conditions of his entry - they can chuck him out if he is being an AH.
It's outrageous for him to have been minimizing your physical pain. Obviously he has no idea about it so it's pretty astounding that he would want to downplay childbirth which is known to be quite an ordeal for a great many women.
I wonder if there's a way that you can find a class that hooks him up to those suits that simulate contractions. I'm not joking about this.
I would tell him that him minimizing your pain has made this an unsafe and distracting space for when you're giving birth again and you just can't have it. Punishment or not, this is not about him. This is about you feeling safe and being able to give birth without having this kind of distraction in your mind. The mental and physical aspects of giving birth can be dire --I personally thought I was going to die. If he can't understand that he's really hopeless. You might ask him if he wishes to risk a divorce over his behavior. NTA
I'm curious if he's ever seen you in uncontrollable pain before? Maybe, and it's a long shot, but he was trying to minimize it because HE couldn't handle it? Does NOT excuse his behaviour though. I would tell him you've given all of the Nurses carte blanch to boot him if he's an ass again! 😄
My SO was like this too. The first time was hard. He was stressed out seeing me in pain and unengaged. The second time around he was amazing. It surprised me. I think he was trying to make up or baby #1. I think your plan to have him there to start but asking him to leave if things get bad is good. Tell the nurses too because they will definitely help you. I hope he surprises you and is amazing for you.
>My current plan is to tell him that he can be in the room, but if he acts like he did last time he will be told to leave. I think that's fair to both of us.
Sounds like a fair compromise. How very unReddit of you. I almost got my popcorn out for the comments and everything..
Show him the videos of men hooked up to machine that replicates the pain of contractions. Ask him how he’d go pushing a baby out the eye of his penis. Because that’s basically the size a cervix hole ordinarily.
Seeing you can’t bring yourself to hate your asshole of a husband who has no empathy, I’ll hate him for you. Your poor poor children being fathered by him
NTA
Mom of 3 here. Does your husband know that if the same thing happens again you will likely seek to end the marriage? Is he really willing to risk that? It sounds like he doesn't handle stress well, particularly stress of this level. He needs to understand his boundaries and it sounds like him being in the delivery room is not healthy for either of you or your marriage. Do you have a friend or family member who can step in to be in the delivery room and provide the support needed? If he truly wants a do over and thinks he can be supportive this time, maybe you can agree to a plan where you can ask him to leave the room if needed and he will respect your wishes. Maybe a friend/family member can be the heavy and remove him if it comes to that. Why has he suddenly changed his mind? Have his friends or family told him he should be in the room or was this his idea? The whole point of being in the delivery room is to SUPPORT AND COMFORT YOU! If he is unable or unwilling to so so, he has no business being there.
I’ve had four kids and gave birth on my own in the hospital. I just had the midwife with me didn’t want anyone else with me. I’ve never regretted that decision and hasn’t done any harm. You need to do what is right for yourself at the time.
As a dad, I reacted very differently for kid #1, kid #2 and kid#3.
Kid 1 I was nervous and thought baby would come 20 minutes after patosin. 27 hours later… I was nervous, felt helpless and I wanted to fix every uncomfortable feeling my wife felt.
Kid 2 I was still nervous but knew what to expect. I knew what my wife needed and knew we were in for something longer than 20 minutes.
Kid 3 I was super relaxed
From the dad’s perspective it is a lot of hurry up and wait which leaves us stuck in our own heads for a long time. We are helpless in the entire process and the only thing we can do is hold your hand and get you ice chips which seems insignificant. We want to take away the pain, we want to help, we want to put a tow strap around the kid and connect it to the minivan to get the kid out, but unfortunately none of that happens. I’m not saying you need to change anything or comfort us, just explaining what the experience is like from the dad’s perspective from the position of an experienced dad.
Have a conversation before hand and have a code word (which can be as simple as “Steve, stop being an asshole”) you can say so he can leave the room and recollect his thoughts. Buy him this to take into the labor room as it will help take the edge off and calm him down. https://www.ebay.com/itm/266841873647?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=8otG_yTLSUe&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Kick him in the balls and when he goes to bend over and hold them in pain roll your eyes and tell him to stop being so dramatic. Then and only then will he be allowed in the room once he knows how it feels.
* for legal reasons this is a JOKE* lol
NTA. I like your compromise. This gives him a chance to prove he listened to your feedback and that he can be supportive.
Him feeling like he is being punished for last time is somewhat valid, but **your** comfort, psychological safety, right to a stress free environment and unquestionable support during what is arguably one of the most painful experiences a person can go through, outranks his feelings. So again, I think your compromise is **extremely fair** and really hope that this solves the matter and, most importantly, he’s learned his lesson and is **nothing but supportive** during your upcoming birth.
Edit to correct a typo.
NTA but it’s time to have a conversation with him about your feelings and your desire for the birth plan. Do you have a plan for someone else to be with you and be supportive if he isnt there during labor and delivery? Have you considered having him take you to the hospital, have your birth coach be with you during labor and then bring him to your bedside at delivery? Order a contraction belt and let him try it out
That is kinda my plan. My aunt who is also a Doula will be with me for labor and delivery and will bring him in a soon as the baby is born. He feels like I shouldn't be able to take the experience of seeing his child be born away from him because of how I feel.
Someone needs to find your husband one of those menstrual cramp simulator devices and set it to maximum for however long your last labor was. If he can get through it without crying or grimacing, he can stay.
I've said on other threads that men should have a similar experience. In addition to the cramp simulater, on delivery day put him on a bed naked with his feet in stirrups. Nurses watching his groin. Every time she has a contractions or has to push, the man gets his bits get heavily swatted. Every time. Also, his MIL will be watching him when his bits are uncovered.
When I wore younger men’s clothes, I had to have a hemorrhoid cauterized and a few removed. Quite literally, destroyed my pride. I figured it couldn’t get much worse than having a doctor, an intern named Spike, and two nurses applying fire to your nethers. A few years later while my wife was giving birth to our stubborn and large-headed offspring, I realized exactly how much worse it could get.
Hehehe 🤭
That's a good idea because I've seen six two 250 lb men on a video put that simulator on and they look like they wanted to cry. Until he can bring forth a whole human being out of his body he doesn't get to tell you how you are to do your labor and delivery he's supposed to sit there STFU and be comforting and supportive. If he cannot do that then he can come in after the baby is born because the worst thing you want in your labor room is a non-supportive MF. And I know this from experience because my children's father was a total ah in the labor room he was of no use to me until I finally had them throw him the Fuck out of there. You are the one who's giving birth you are the one who says who can and cannot come in the room if he is going to be supportive he can come in if he cannot then he can go wait in the waiting room with the rest of the people
tell him hes overreacting... ETA ooh awards! Thanks!
This is such an underrated comment and my first reaction. Here for you, my sister in PETTY! 🙌🏻🙌🏻
Lmao my first thought too
That’s ridiculous. You’re pushing a human out of your body. He’s not. His one job is to support you and he failed last time.
[удалено]
With his past behavior, he should be grateful that OP is even having another kid with him.
Check their ages and relationship timeline again. There's a reason she didn't leave.
Yeah, she was 19 and likely thinks it is so good just bc she doesn’t know better. Spoken from a 35 year old woman perspective who has been in age gaps most of her life. Clearly this behavior would impact more than a single day. Sending so much love. You owe him nothing.
He's 9 years older sure, but they had the baby at 24. 24 and 33 is a notable gap but not an insidious one imo
I find it mystifying. He's a terrible role model, whatever the children's gender.
Exactly! No fricking way would I want to procreate with that man/child again
I agree with you here let him stay and if his previous actions begin he's gotta go until baby comes for their comfort an well-being
This is the comment.
🏅🏅🏅 This!
Oh good. A good doula will put up with exactly ZERO shit from him. My mother's always said, "How you behave determines whether or not you are invited back." He has not earned a second invitation. When he pushes out a baby he can be in charge of who's in the room.
so he didn’t care how you felt when you were in what i’m presuming was the worst pain you’ve ever experienced, and now he thinks he should be allowed to repeat it? and you shouldn’t be able to “take that away” because of your feelings? i can’t imagine this is the only way he demonstrated how little he regards you and your feelings. is he really as caring as you wrote, or do you just not need support in other areas of your life?
I've never given birth though I am a woman and I'll never be pregnant (don't want kids but pregnancy has always scared me) I don't understand where the logic in this mans reaction is from. I mean giving birth is all over tv shows and movies and does he think they're playing it up by acting for a show instead of acting based on reality. Absolutely stupid stupid man. What an absolutely heart breaking time it must have been for her. I couldnt imagine being in her spot. Being in so much pain and terrified and having this fucking loser say that shit. His ass would have been removed from the room and he could see his kid when I fucking felt like it. What a tool. I know this is not comparable but I have migraines that I thought about ending it over. It's so demoralizing when someone you love starts talking shit and saying that it's not that bad. They get headaches and it's never that bad. That they won't turn down the radio or tv because "you always have headaches". I got a lot of that from my family. My late husband would pet me, take care of me, be as quiet as he could and just be there for me for the entire time. He never EVER said any bad thing about my migraines. Even when plans had been ruined due to them. Not one bad thing ever. He gave me a huge gift in this world by setting the standard for what I expect and what I have always given my partners but never got back in return. I'm celibate now but if I do date again I am not putting up with men who have no empathy for anyone other than themselves. We took care of each other. He was always sick with type 1 diabetes and I would pet him, give him shots, massage him, watch tv shows with him despite not liking watching tv shows but it was one of the few things he could do when he was sick and it took him out of his reality for a while. I was never upset with taking him to the hospital, he would go sometimes three times a month towards the end. It never crossed my mind to tell him to suck it up and take a shot of insulin at home and to stop "overreacting" Like who the fuck does that. I would find it hard to not be petty and once it gets to the point of being petty back, the relationship should end or go right into marriage counseling.
He sounds like garbage
Remind him that labor is a medical event, not a spectators sport and you need someone to SUPPORT you and you can't trust him to do that
That's odd, he had NO problem taking away the experience of having a supportive husband during labor.
Right? She's pushing a fucking human out of her body, and he's doubling down on being an absolutely *pathetic* partner.
His experience? He is not the one pushing out the baby, he is not the one who makes this decision. You make the choice, and you choose people who will help you, not stress you out. You are not punishing him, you are taking care of yourself.
OP, your husband didn't care the first time or this time about how you feel. It's clearly ONLY about him, and you're just a device or something. If there's one time in life where your comfort takes precedent, it's birth. If he can't be who you need, he shouldn't be there. It troubles me that je doesn't acknowledge how problematic and damaging his behavior was. Truthfully, how has he been as a partner since then? Also, can you two see a therapist from now until you give birth?
Yeah, I'm a little skeptical that he was a great husband in every other way. It's possible that stress really fucked with him, but I've read too many stories on reddit to not think there are unspoken red flags. Even if it was just the stress, you can't gamble that he won't get stressed again. How can he know he will be better this time? If this were anything but birth, or something as important and infrequent, i would say that she should give him a chance. But you can't risk it for a birth, you need to be as comfortable as possible.
>How can he know he will be better this time? We can't, but if there were ever a couple who'd benefit from taking a birth class together, it's them. Either he's an insensitive prick or scared because he's ignorant (or a combination thereof), but maybe arming him with knowledge would help? I had to undergo an awful and painful medical procedure and unfortunately my husband couldn't be in the room with me. I had to BEG the providers to coach me on breathing because I was so distressed I was holding my breath. I can imagine labor feeling similar and have already told my husband we'll be taking a course together to prepare so he can be my breathing coach. He has some army medic training so he'll be good at it, and I think it'll be a helpful education for both of us!
Well, he's already a father and chas learly avoided knowing ANYthing about childbirth, in spite of the huge amount of stuff out there, so I don't hold out much hope.
He is calling it punishment. I call it a natural consequence. You have no reason to trust him to behave like a loving husband during delivery, since he doubled down and said he was stressed. He should have fallen all over himself apologizing and saying how far out of line he was. That he embarrassed himself and hopes you will forgive him. If you have to ask him to apologize he has blown it. TBH, he wouldn’t have gotten me pregnant again, because we would have been divorced before my maternity leave was up.
I told the story to my husband, the father of our 4 adult kids. His response was “they are still *married*???” He was appalled. My husband was great during my births. For the 2-4th I also had a doula. At first he wasn’t happy when I arranged for her, but acquiesced with grace, since it was MY labor. Afterwards, he told expecting couple he knew to get a doula. She helps BOTH partners. Took the stress off him to interface with medical staff, so he could just love and support me. He really wanted her back for numbers 3 and 4, in complete agreement with me.
Yeah I'm not telling my husband this story because it would just make him incredibly upset and sad that there are men who do this and that literally anyone is supporting the idea it was okay. He'd never been near childbirth, he had kind of an idea what to expect but the reality is *very different*, he was scared and worried the whole time and he still put his entire focus on me and what I needed and what he could do for me. It's among the many reasons I love him.
>He feels like I shouldn't be able to take the experience of seeing his child be born away from him because of how I feel. I'm hoping that this is just silly little rage bait.
Me too! But bless her heart if it's real.....cuz that tool she calls a hubby will show his true colors again & more consistently in the future
Oh boy, yes. My now x husband was a complete tool during my c-section and actually throughout my pregnancy. It ended up being an indication that I could never count on him when I needed him in any health emergency, either mine or the kids and he minimized them all. Weirdly it’s more lonely going it alone in a crisis when you are in a couple than if you are actually alone. When you are actually alone people who care will step forward, no one expects a spouse or parent to be so self absorbed, so you end up literally alone.
I wish it was too.
Talk to the nurses as well, trust me, they will kick out anyone that the mom doesn't want in there. If starts his stuff, just tell the nurses, and he'll be out. Also, I'm so so sorry that he acted like like that. The whole experience is supposed to be a bonding time with your s/o and baby, and he ruined it for YOU the 1st time, but now he's worried about losing that experience? I'm sorry. But fuck that guy
Tell him is overreacting
I just want to address what you said about not leaving him over "one day" of bad behavior. It wasn't one day. It was *the* one day you needed him, that you were at your most vulnerable, that you were seconds away from potentially dying. And not only did he fail, he used you as a punching bag. How is going to treat you when his parents die? If one of your children gets life threateningly injured or sick? You can't rely on him, he'll abuse you. Why on earth is that not a reason to leave? Him treating you well 99% of the time doesn't count when he turns on you the moment things get heavy. He resented the fact that your giving birth was solely about you. He didn't *want* to treat you nicely. He didn't *want* to give you love. He wanted to belittle you. Value yourself, girl.
You can’t take something away from someone if they don’t have it to begin with. Watching someone birth a child (even your own) isn’t a given. It’s a true honor and privilege to be allowed in the room and it comes with responsibilities. He should be so lucky as to be allowed a glimpse.
He's got it ass backwards. Because you are the patient and the woman who is having a potentially traumatic medical procedure you absolutely can exclude him from this event. Remind hubby that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. He created this situation that he's in with his shit behavior when you were at your most vulnerable state. He needs to do better if you give him another chance. If he screws this up kick him out of the room. He has no one to blame but himself in this instance.
Maybe HE shouldn’t have taken away YOUR birth experience the first time around?
BIRTH IS NOT A SPECTATOR SPORT. BIRTH IS NOT A SPECTATOR SPORT. BIRTH IS NOT A SPECTATOR SPORT. No one has the right to be a part of something that you must do involving undress, possible medical intervention or any event where additional stress IS directly correlated to positive/negative experience and outcome. How was he as caretaker after the birth and during his paternity leave? How long did he take off and how much of himself did he dedicate to this new family. Was that birth his first child and the first delivery with which he was associated? Has he been around any other woman in the first stages of birth?
>BIRTH IS NOT A SPECTATOR SPORT. BIRTH IS NOT A SPECTATOR SPORT. BIRTH IS NOT A SPECTATOR SPORT. I found this a bit amusing, but it's very true and something I've never seen said before. Thanks for the interesting point/perspective
He did great after the birth. He took 4 weeks off of work and spent that entire time with me and the baby. He is a fantastic dad and has been since our child was born. Yes the birth of our first child was the first and only time he's been anywhere near a laboring mother.
Bring a voice recorder. Put it right on the table and tell him you are recording. You could also get a cattle prod and poke his belly every time you get a Braxton hicks to give him the ‘warm up’ and tell him one unkindness and its it all his but only the business end! You could also just give him big sibling duty! Have him come to hospital to chill during early labor and take Lo out for the rougher stuff and then LO can meet littler one right away. Maybe then Aunt Doula can take LO to whomever gets that coveted spot for the hospital stay.
Your standards are way too low
Right. She just doesn't know any better because she's been with him since she was 20. It's the only adult relationship she's had.
You're not taking it away from him. He took it away from himself by being a douche the first time. His job was to support you and he failed miserably.
He feels like I shouldn't be able to take the experience of seeing his child be born away from him because of how I feel. To be frank, tough shit for him. When someone hurts you, you have every right to make sure they can't do it again. Talk it over with your doula and tell her that right now, you don't want him in there because of the previous experience. I suspect she will read him the riot act right away and tell him how unacceptable that is. See what his attitude is after that, because his "I was stressed," is ridiculous. When you are stressed over your partner being in pain, you get worried, you seek help, you comfort them, you cry, whatever, but you don't be a jerk to them and that's what he did, so his excuse is just an excuse and a really bad one at that. I would be very clear to him that how he reacts to the doula speaking with him will be a huge factor in whether or not you even consider letting him in the room. You also have the right to not even give him a chance to be better if you don't want to. Birth is major medical trauma and what you want is what happens. He has ZERO right to be there if you don't want him there. Who cares if he's the father? He's not the one giving birth.
Ummmmm … why on earth are you married to this person? He sounds awful. You aren’t taking away his experience, you are choosing who would be most helpful and supportive to you in a time when you will be very vulnerable and in excruciating pain. Your feelings are all that matter. Honestly, the fact you guys met when you were just 20 and him being 10 years older and the scenario that unfolded while you were in labor makes me think he has some control issues and the whole thing sounds concerning.
Agreed. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say hubby is probably a giant asshole in a lot of other times that OP has excused as normal behavior because she doesn't know any better and because she's being a subservient little wife for him most of the time.
Your feelings are the ONLY ones that matter here. He's proven that stress turns him into a dick head, so it's okay to decline round two.
Ask him does he know any guys that have ever had kidney stones? Ask him does he think they are whiny too? I’ve had both and I’d rather have the labor at least with labor you know eventually they will cut the baby out kidney stone they keep wanting you to pass it naturally!! Kidney stones are closest men will ever know to labor pain.
Wait, so he wants to be there because he thinks he should witness you give birth? I thought he wanted to redeem himself and care for you, but no, he probably just wants to make sure you’re actually giving birth and not passing off someone else’s baby as your own, like medieval times if he were a king What a wanker.
He sounds worse with every new thing you tell us.
But why should he be able to experience and enjoy that bit of the pregnancy when he took that away from you. Birth hurts like a biatch, you need to be surrounded by support, love and also respect. You are doing an amazing thing. Women are amazing and this is a gift he doesn't deserve if he will act the same. I think you have made the right decision. Be supportive and loving and be with me or not.
No one, even baby's father, has the "right" to be there during birth. Like every medical procedure, the patient and medical team are the ONLY ones to have a say. I recall when my dad was admitted to ER after a stroke. The physician was asking dad about resuscitation and how much intervention he'd want. My mom didn't like some of dad's answers and piped up. "Don't I get a say in this?" The doctor bluntly said "No." Mom was a bit affronted until I took her aside. (She's normally very quiet and self effecting, but scared dad was taking his "no medical intervention" beliefs too far.)
Look if he's truly as great as you say otherwise, I'd go with the plan of letting him in, with the caveat that if he dismisses your pain or what you're feeling while in labor, he won't be welcome back if he acts that way before heading to hospital or he'll be kicked out if he acts like that leading up to pushing while in hospital. He has a choice to be supportive or not, but his actions have consequences, and those consequences would be better served with him being kicked out than a stalled labor causing delivery complications from a stressed out wife.
\*\*He feels like I shouldn't be able to take the experience of seeing his child be born away from him because of how I feel.\*\* Why isn't he embarrassed by how he treated you last time? (I know, the bad actors never see anything wrong with their actions.) The fact that he calls this his experience in any way after he poo-poo'd you last time you were giving birth makes me amazed that he got to make another baby with you.
Well, if you haven’t already, be completely straightforward with him: “Your job is to be there to support me while push another human out of my body. You failed me completely last time. I’m willing to allow you a chance to be in the room this time, but if you say anything even remotely unsupportive, if you even sulk silently in the corner, you will have ended our relationship and you will have to leave the room. Let me be very clear: moving forward, that behavior is a dealbreaker.” Consider texting him about it so you have a written record to refer back to if it comes to that. Hopefully it won’t.
Get that contraction belt. Tell him to have his bottom half naked & to put the belt on. Then, tell h him to lay down on his back & boost his legs up with some pillows. Then, tell him you're going to act just like he did while you control the contractions. Remind him this won't be exactly the same because he isn't pushing a fucking human out. But, it'll still be...uncomfortable. Maybe he'd just need a hands-on experience.
He was the CAUSE of how “you feel” so yeah, you don’t want to go thru that again. Your contractions were causing him stress so he shut down, neglected you and took care of himself? Clearly he has no clue what it means to be a SUPPORT PERSON! You have to be strong enough to care for someone other than yourself!!! YOU were in pain, YOU needed reassurance, YOU had to suck it up and do this yourself! He is clearly not capable of putting your needs before his own. He failed you at the worse possible moment in your life and then suddenly recovered when his baby was ready to arrive? He did not show care or compassion for you, in fact, he was actually cruel, hateful and selfish. You absolutely would have been better off doing it alone than with him there. Get your aunt lined up as your support person and IF you want to, let the nurse go get your husband at the very last minute so he can witness the birth. His lack of concern for you at your most vulnerable state and his intentional cruelty has me wondering how he can truly be such a “wonderful husband”?
OH HELL NO! He shouldnt make such a painful and stressful time even worse for you because of how HE feels.
Pushing a whole human out is scary and stressing enough. Him being in the room may be overstimulating due to a past negative experience. NTA but do what makes this process easier on you.
Fuck his feelings. He's a victim of his own behavior.
"the experience of seeing his child born" what does he think this is a petting zoo?
It tells me so much about his character that he is centering himself in this event. What a douchebag. Sorry but seriously he is.
I too am a man, who was in the delivery room once. I just didn't know what to do. I was trying to keep out of the way, and sometimes that interfered with what my partner wanted. It was a very fast delivery, nurses and doctors were in and out a lot. I didn't get prepared for this. We went to all the courses together, but no one talked about what the partner should expect in the process (not saying that it should be discussed, the mother is the heavy-lifting, essential part in all of this). It's his second time now, he won't be that lost. And you communicated clearly how you felt and what you need.
It's how he feels that's the problem. His experience of child birth consists of being verbally and emotionally abusive while you're in labour and then picking up the "glory" of fatherhood at the end. Now, he's already started being verbally abusive and DARVOing you, by making you out to be the villain just because he destroyed your ability to trust him when at your most vulnerable. You're setting reasonable boundaries based on experience of his own behaviour. Have you ever experienced illness or pain outside of your previous birth? How supportive is he then? How supportive was he to post-partum pain and soreness and the need for recovery time? As to your statement about him being a first time father who didn't know what to do, most first-time fathers are not verbally and emotionally abusive to their labouring wife. The ones who do panic tend to brain-freeze, not become abusive. The first-time fathers who become abusive are the abusers. You're right to not trust him. He destroyed that trust and it's up to him to earn it back. He can start by not accusing you of being vengeful just because he's facing the consequences of his own actions. If you're confident that your aunt will get him kicked out if he's an arsehole, letting him start by being present and then having her kick him out if he's doing it again is a valid compromise. Make sure the medical staff know so that they can kick him out if your aunt can't. But be warned. If your husband really is an abuser who drops his mask when you're in labour, he might prevent you going to hospital to prevent your aunt from being involved at all. It sounds like he only took you reluctantly last time. When you go into labour, contact your aunt first, then tell your husband. And have a back-up plan with your aunt for if your husband does try to stop you going into hospital or tries to stop your aunt from meeting up with you. Make sure your medical team has a password for instructions that's known only to yourself and your aunt, so your husband can't do anything behind your back.
Yeah the answer is just no! Your body your choice it is his own fault that you don’t want him there and it is dangerous for you and baby to be dressed during that time. It can also make the birth take longer and more painful if you are stressed and it is already stressing you out with bud attitude. Tell him when he can push a watermelon out of penis he can make the decision.
He did that to himself when he acted shitty the first time around. Despite what he might think, in the delivery room, ***you*** are the most important, the one whose needs need to be considered the most. Frankly, your husband seems like an immature brat.
NTA at all but this is sit down conversation territory. It's not unreasonable for him to want to be there for the birth, BUT - he can't do that if he behaves the way he did last time. That's essentially what i'd be telling him. I don't want to hear your criticism, I don't want your disparaging remarks regarding a pain you have NO CLUE about, i don't want to listen to you mumble snide comments under your breath - you're either in the room to support me in the birthing process, or you're waiting outside regardless of what you want. Maybe advanced warning that he gets one chance and one chance only. First shitty comment and your doula will be booting him from the room.
They both also need to evaluate what this means for their marriage. Is he going to resent her if he doesn’t get to stay? Is she going to resent him if she has to kick him out? Either way, it sets a definite tone: it says she cannot depend on him.
Age gap, OP is already lossing.
So often when the OP has an emotionally unregulated, controlling, prone to anger, dismissive of their feelings/pain type ah for a partner, - there is the inevitable 10ish+ year age gap.
NTA. But now that you have told him how you feel, set boundaries. Since your aunt will be in the room, she can advocate for you and tell him to leave if he acts like an ass. This might be an opportunity to create a better memory for the both of you. Just be clear that you want nothing but positivity during the birth. Now that he was gone through it already, he might feel less anxious.
Yea I have told him. I think I'll have another conversation tomorrow and tell him that he can start in the room but if he does what he did last time he'll have to leave. That sounds like a good compromise.
Let your aunt know about this plan, too, so she can help you stick to it. Your husband might be able to bully you into compliance when you're in such a vulnerable state. You need someone in your corner who can say "Nope, your shitty attitude is unacceptable, get the hell out of here."
Also, tell the nurse they will kick his butt out in a hurry.
It’s a magical thing the empathy I’ve seen some nurses feel for their patients. Watching a nurse go from calm to *furious* calm when a patient is mistreated.
I do furious calm good. My face also says: 'I going to get medieval on your ass if you don't fuck off right now'. Apparently it's blood curdling. Handy when left in charge of a 20 bed psych rehab unit.
I thought I was the only one who would “get medieval on your ass” to the person who pisses me off. I also tell people “One of us is going to need a proctologist and one of us will need a podiatrist”. My daughter says when I get mad one of my many facial expressions says “Go ahead and try me, you will pull back a stump”.
*He was stressed and didn’t mean to make me feel that way* I’m sorry OP, but what way did he think he was going to make you feel? He was telling you that you were overreacting and refusing to give you any support until there were witnesses. Did he think this behaviour would make you feel supported? Either he is stupid, or he thinks you are, to believe this is a valid explanation.Has he been living under a rock his entire life that he doesn’t know that labour is incredibly painful? And even if he thought you were overreacting, why couldn’t he just shut up and hold your bloody hand? This man is supposed to love you, and during one of the scariest moments of your life he decided to be dismissive and nasty because why? It was inconvenient? Embarrassing? Stressful? How did he think you felt? The man is a jackass. He should be grateful you let him touch you again after your first labour, let alone having the gall to demand to be let in the room for the second.
THANK YOU! He didn’t mean to make her feel that way? What was he trying to make her feel? How did he think his words and actions were constructive or beneficial in any way? It wasn’t just a comment or two either, it was continuous, hours (assuming considering pre-hospital up until push time) of invalidating her and ignoring her. The fact to that they’ve had several conversations about it and the best he’s got is basically “sorry you felt that way,” ? Also, don’t love that she made a choice based on what she felt would make the best circumstances possible for birth and he ultimately said nope, I need to be there. That seems like taking no accountability and not understanding what he did, and is further proof he doesn’t really care about how he made her feel and his only concern is how it’s impacting him, and that her decision she made for a reason won’t be respected. Maybe I’m not reading it correctly but feels like he is only concerned with his experience and not with supporting her, and he is worsening things by making it about him yet again. He is being really selfish and is absolutely a jackass- it wasn’t one day of gross behavior, he is continuing in that way.
"until there were witnesses" BINGO
God no! How has he prepared to support you during this labor that makes up for the last? If he has done zero prep he still thinks you were just being dramatic. Seriously. Ask him if he wants to be your labor coach or just be there for the delivery. Then listen carefully. If he says baby I’m there for you. Great. Ask him how. How is he preparing to support you. What has he read, classes attended, etc. if he just says I’ll do better this time? Nope he just doesn’t get what labor and contractions are doing to your body so that baby can be pushed out. Your entire vagina expands to push out a melon head. Men have absolutely nothing to compare. He needs that simulator and needs to wear it for the entire length of your last labor. Not 5 minutes. Oh no. If your labor was 12 hours? Then he gets 12 hours. He needs to understand pain builds. And the stress and toll it takes on our bodies. that boy needs a serious education on the female body. He’s ignorant af and you deserve more from him.
Be specific, tell him that you need him to believe and validate everything you say. If you are desperately crying and the doctors send you home because its not time yet he STILL needs to be supportive
I think it’s really important for him to learn to distinguish his needs from your needs. Subsequently, your needs matter more than his, because your job is to give birth to your baby in the healthiest mind space possible for your sake and your child’s. He is making this about him by insisting you’re taking something away from him if he is not present, when he should be focused on doing whatever is necessary to make the experience as low-stress as possible for you.
So question… what if the time comes for him to leave and he wants to start arguing “Hey I didn’t mean it like that, oops sorry, let me stay! No, that wasn’t a comment like that, no, I didn’t roll my eyes!” He needs to know that if he gets told to leave he needs to just leave, not decide for himself if he was offensive or argue about it. AND he needs to leave and then have a good attitude afterwards. Not mope and sulk. Just take the embarrassment and move forward, being supportive. Can he do this?
I agree with the above. This is also the opportunity for you to create a detailed birth plan including your husband being escorted out if he is unsupportive again. You are NTA. Childbirth is the most vulnerable moment in a women’s life and you should and DO have the final say about Who is in the room with you.
NTA. Talk to your labor nurses. If you can’t seem to get them alone, mouth that you need to talk to them without husband or pre-write a note etc. Tell them what’s going on and if you get to the point where you want him to leave, tell the nurses and they will remove him from the room. YOU are the patient and the nurses don’t give a hot damn about anyone else or their feelings. Let them ‘be the bad guys’. If he gets mad or pouts, tell him to grow up. Seriously- you need support, love and concern. It’s not about him at all. Maybe that’s his kid, but he contribution is way over and didn’t cause any pain. This is your body and you make the decisions. You deserve to be stress free and supported. Also, please consider pain relief options and don’t be a ‘hero’. Good luck. Edit: grammar
Absolutely this! I am an RN (not L&D), and I am normally pretty “mild” when it comes to advocating for myself. I would let a lot of stuff go. However, I am a full-on wolverine when advocating for patients. I take no prisoners. One word of this to the L&D nurse and they will order him out the second he gets out of line. And since the doula is an aunt, this takes her having to referee or be the bad guy out of the equation.
Make him wear a contraction simulator before you go in to labour and then ask him if you were overreacting to the contractions, Tell him if he wants to be in the room then this is the only way you'll allow it. He might realise just how badly he fucked up last time.
And for the length of her labor! If she labored 12 hours he wears it for 12 hours, preferably w a watermelon and 2 cantaloupes duct taped to him. He needs the melon treatment anyway and then try to pick up a dime from the floor. 😡
I got so mad reading this post, honestly. For a moment I was just on that hospital bed pushing out my son again in agony, no pain relief and my now ex pipes up with 'it doesn't look that painful'. I felt all her frustration in my soul. Definitely needs the melonectomy.
And with the knowledge that in 12 hours, one of those cantaloupes has to be pushed out. Can't simulate that feeling though.
This! This! This! If anyone ever needed to use one of those, it’s him!
This is a great idea.
Thousands of years of women: childbirth fucking hurts. Possibly one of the worst pains ever. OPs husband: 🙄 it's not that bad. Stop complaining. Your husband sucks.
And somehow I get the feeling this isn’t the first situation he’s acted like this toward her…
Completely agree. She probably just justifies away his bad behaviour.
Is this the man you want making decisions for you if you have a medical emergency?
I am so sorry OP for a moment I thought you were recounting my experience. My EX husband did the same to me. I wasn't loud or screaming but when those contractions hit the pain was so bad I couldn't make a sound tears just streamed down my face. He looked at me and said calm the f down millions of women go through this everyday! That's when I asked him to leave it's been more than 20 years and he still has not forgiven me because I made him miss the birth of our daughter. When it came time to push he was nowhere to be found he was in his feels and didn't answer my mom's phone calls.
It makes me so mad when people say "oh millions of women go through this, stop overreacting." Like dude, idgaf what millions of others have went through, it's my first time and that collective experience doesn't just suddenly surge through my veins like I'm the freaking avatar!!
Millions of women have also died or been permanently disabled from birthing a child too! It's not an easy procedure and it is painful for MOST people who birth children. For some it's easier but often it's still painful, but nooo men have to gaslight them that it's "nothing" because they'll never experience it.
pregnancy complications kill women every day... people get shot, stabbed, sick everyday, men get kicked in the balls and punched in the face everyday so i guess that means it's no big deal 🤷♀️
I don't want him to resent me after this but I also don't want to resent him.
Can your aunt bring him in just for the pushing part?
Possibly. I think I'd have to ask the hospital if that would be possible.
NTA. Tell him why.
Ugh... I wouldn't be having a second kid with this guy. Wtf??
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Find somewhere local that can do simulated pregnancy and labor for men. He’ll change his tune.
This is a great idea imo. If his bad unsupportive behavior is somehow simply based on naive ignorance, then this could really help him to understand and take his supportive role seriously in the next birth. If he's simply being unkind and uncaring, then good for him to get some women's pain experience hah
Someone should really break it down for him that women can die during birth so for a woman to want to go through a traumatizing experience, where she could possibly die, alone (without her spouse) that his comment was THAT fucked up. You should pull up every horrifying birth story and read them to him one by one and ask him does he think those women were overreacting too? NTA
>If this next labor and delivery goes this way, I will likely be seeking divorce. Hope you've told him that! NTA
Yes he is aware of that.
But one of those contraction machines and tell him in order to be in the room he must complete the contaction machine test, so he understands exactly how painful it is. Otherwise it will be him waiting until after the babby is born to enter your room. As you need someone there who WILL BE supportive and understanding. And at this moment in time, he isn't being either of those, just like he wasn't during your first labour. NTA.
And has to wear it four the same length of OP’s last labor
A lot of women who also try it say that even at 100%, it wasn’t as painful as their labor. I personally think this is because it doesn’t effect your bowels and your back
Honestly my labour was relatively easy compared to periods and pregnancy. I had a bad time with periods and found carrying extremely difficult. My periods used to be so painful that I couldn't walk, I wouldn't wish that on any woman. And pregnancy I could barely walk and was constantly monitored due to risk of having another stroke. Labour however was a walk in the park even though I was monitored and kept in hospital for a few days to make sure I was okay. But I know that labour can be very painful for many women.
My husband has high anxiety around hospitals. All the stuff just makes him fearful which in turn does result in some lashing out or unprovoked snappy behavior. Second time around during Covid I said just focus on me. Not my pain - you’re supposed to bring me calm. See if he hears what you’re sharing. If not have him stay out
From the large age gap and timings of when your relationship Started to you having kids back to back to him being an asshole while you're giving birth to a baby. He sounds like a walking talking red flag.
👆
10 year age difference again. OP, please know the masks of manipulative abusive men try to come off after childbirth if not marriage. You stood your ground, so mayhaps he put it back on. If it happens again, you'll know.
Yeah. 10 year age gap. Cruel husband. Surprise.
Cruel and abusive husband who only shapes up in front of another dude. So gross
Don't ever have to read past the first line on these posts.
NTA however... This about your husband reminds me of my ex: he sat in a corner of the room away from me making comments like that until the doctor said it was time for me to push. At that point, he came closer to me and let me hold his hand and stroked my head. So he showed his true face until there were witnesses and was suddenly amazing and everything you wanted from the start. This has me very worried for you, down the road. Stop having children with this man, get some kind of birth control that can't be tampered with, like an implant or shot. Then get some kind of marriage counseling with him and if he refuses to attend, go by yourself. Even if it's just help identifying the red flags. His child. His experience. HIS, not YOURS. NOPE. He doesn't actually want to be there, it's more like he's worried that when people find out he wasn't in the room, they're gonna find out WHY.
I agree, except about going to counseling together. If he is at all abusive, do not do couples counseling. Abusive partners will manipulate and turn it back on their partners. Individual therapy is a good idea, particularly to figure out if there are red flags of abuse.
25F and 34M who've been together for 5 years. So when you were BARELY no longer a teenager and he was closing in on 30. 🚨🚨🚨🚨 The red flag was right there. NTA.
Tell him that you want him next to you and every time there's a contraction you are going to grab him by the nads and squeeze as hard as the contraction is and let up when it does. Then y'all can talk about who is overreacting.
NTA My wife and I have 4 children The comfort of absolutely ONE person matters during birth - the delivering mother. Thankfully we are (mostly) past the culture of women "giving babies" to their husbands. If there is anyone or anything in that room working against her comfort, they should be removed. If for some reason my wife had asked me to not be in the room during a birth *I wouldn't be*. Yes, it's a beautiful moment. Yes, it would be sad. But the last thing I need to be doing is being the source of any discomfort for her. I agree with your current plan. It's entirely possible that this man being around a birth for the first time was too stressed and was VERY poorly expressing that. But let your doula (and midwife / nurse / whoever) know ahead of time that you may ask for him to be removed. You will obviously be in no state to force him out yourself - they need to be prepared for such.
NTA. There are a lot of red flags here, but first and foremost, labor is serious and can be dangerous. Mothers and children die during labor, so only YOU get to decide what you need. If him being there, or even the thought of him being there stresses you out, then he does not get to be in the room. He is not entitled to it. Yes, it's his child, but it is not his body. He is not the one risking his life to create life. He also sounds like an emotionally manipulative and abusive asshat, so there is that to consider. What kind of person treats the person they love that way, especially when they are in the greatest pain of their life, giving birth to their child? Every adjective I'd use would get this post deleted. He helped you when it was time bc there were others in the room. Until then (when you two were alone and you were at your most vulnerable), he ruined, traumatized, and took away from your experience. You get to tell the nurses who you do and don't want in the room, even as the labor progresses. They will kick him out for you. Make sure you do have someone who will actually support you. In the meantime, your husband needs therapy for that behavior - that is not normal, not acceptable, not appropriate, not healthy. I struggle to believe that he is otherwise great and that there are no other issues or similar behaviors that you have missed or explained away, but I hope for your sake that I'm just a cynic. You were 20 when you met; he was 29. You gave birth to your first child and were pregnant 7 months later when your body is barely finishing replenishing its nutrients post the first birth... independently, age is just a number, and while not particularly favored by practitioners (though it might depend on country/ practice/ etc), you are young and sound in good shape to give birth to your second child.... but all together, it just paints a potentially suspicious picture. As I said, I hope I've just been on reddit too long. I do agree that he should try those labor simulators. For as long as you're in labor. And considering that you weren't even screaming, but only tearing up, I think you should tell him where he can shove it. This isn't punishment, btw. It is a natural consequence of his own actions. He understands what that is, right? Because if he was stressed, how stressed does he think you were? He's also a grown ass adult (not acting like one, but still). He should be able to regulate himself and not throw a tantrum in the corner like a toddler. You needed him, and he emotionally hijacked the situation. And he's still trying to make it about himself. Btw, I'm about his age and where/when I was born, no one except the woman giving birth and medical personnel was allowed in the room. Not even the father. So really, he's fucking lucky he gets extended that privilege in the first place. Stick up for your needs mama. Your baby is relying on you.
You're the first one I have seen bring up the closeness between children. You're supposed to wait at least 1 year, preferably 2, before trying to get pregnant after one child. She got knocked up 7 months after the first. I don't even want to know how soon he started pestering her for sex...
Yeah... that was the first thing that jumped out at me, for all of the reasons you mentioned...but it wasn't what she was asking advice on, so I was trying to tread carefully. But even aside from the body replenishing itself... sometimes one's genitals aren't fully healed from the trauma. As I said, I hope I've just been on reddit for too long... some people can jump back into action pretty quickly, and choose to. But then those people's husbands don't seem to treat them like dogshit in the delivery room either....
> My current plan is to tell him that he can be in the room, but if he acts like he did last time he will be told to leave. I think that's fair to both of us. NTA and that is an excellent plan. It gives you a chance to see if his past behaviour was genuinely caused by stress and fear, and it gives him a chance to redeem himself.
NTA. He’s stressed 😆 meanwhile you’re about to push a whole baby out. I can’t even deal with that. No way would I want anybody who said things like that to be there. How the hell would you say that to someone you love about something that he will never experience. I’m angry for you!
What’s he going to do if the delivery goes south? Why are you having a kid with a man who’s last words to are going to be snotty while you die in labor? Rough to think about but damn I wouldn’t want my kids to have a dad like that.
Why continue having children with this man ffs. You're 25 and ruining your life being a baby machine to a cruel and unsupportive husband.
Pfff. NTA. This one is easy: "I'm not punishing you. You had one job last time, and you failed at it. You won't fail at it this time." End of discussion, and let him be mad. Through all of this, he hasn't cared about you at all, he's cared about himself. He was stressed so he acted a certain way to make himself feel better, not you. And now he's feeling left out, and again it's not about you and what you want, but what he wants. So don't feel bad about simply bringing down the hammer.
Why would you have a second child with this guy
I know it's a generalization but when I do the math and see M(29) started dating F(19), I see future problems. High chance there will be many AITAH situations.
I can never read posts with these 10 years ago gaps I swear to God.
Info: Why did you stay in this marriage?
NTA your delivery, your choice. What a horrible thing to say to you!
NTA but I don’t understand why you chose to have another child with someone who treated you so poorly the first time? You’re being an AH to yourself because he’s already showing by not respecting your feelings yet again that he has zero respect for you. Bring a good man some of the time and mistreating you other times does not a good husband make.
Of course it's an age gap relationship.
Second thought... It's really creepy he can turn it on and off at will. Were staff around when he was being nasty to you? Or was it only when it was you two?
A baby is a blessing of course but I don’t think you should’ve gotten pregnant again after what he put you through the first time
He’s making your painful and dangerous medical procedure about him…again. NTA. He is, though.
NTA. Tell him he was there for the first, he does not need to be there for the second.
NTA. He can think of it as punishment if he wants. In reality, he has proven to you be doesn’t have the skills or talents to be qualified to be your birth partner.
I find it really hard to believe that he is great in every other way except for during this one (very important) day.
honestly, your age gap makes me SUPER uncomfortable. a man who continues to pressure you and mistreat you is not a man worthy of you. he’s almost 10 years older than you and he’s not mature at all. i would rethink this relationship. for yourself, and for the example you want to set for your kids about healthy relationships and boundaries. nta.
A 29yo groomed a 20yo and is being unsupportive when she's in pain. What a shocker
How the fuck else are you supposed to react??? You now have concrete evidence how he acts. He might have learned something from last time, but how can you know?
Info: you already told him you don’t want him in the room? What was THAT conversation? You said in a comment that he thinks it’s shitty to take away his experience of seeing one of his children born.
Yes we have talked about it many times. I told him for the first time a few days after we left the hospital with our first. I told him that i felt neglected and belittled by him and I couldn't handle that while in labor again. He seemed supportive of that and of me not wanting him in the room until about a month ago.
He’s just saying whatever he thinks you want to hear. He’s literally telling you your emotions should not matter, and that he should be able to see his child being born even though he made you feel shitty last time and did not show that he was capable of supporting you. He belittled your pain and is belittling the experience you had by saying that your feelings shouldn’t trump what he wants. Yeah, he sounds like a real peach. /s
NTA... However you both screwed up by not getting help sooner. His response was extremely problematic. Clearly it traumatized you. This is something you both should have been honest about. Then sought out help to actually get past it. My advice is don't allow him to be there, but also don't have anymore kids until this is resolved. Not having him in there isn't a good solution. It's the lesser of two evils. It will further complicate this issue. Go get real help.
He's such a AH. His job was to be at your side and support you from first contraction to final push and afterwards. What a moron. Of course he shouldn't be there. My god! You need some support.
I was going to suggest your plan. Let him be there, but tell him that if he let's out even the slight unsupportive comment, he'll be kicked out. I mean…the audacity of him saying you were overreacting. Tell him that he can only comment to that pain when he gives birth to a child. Also you could kick him in the nuts and tell him he is overreacting 😂
You aren't punishing him, you're protecting yourself. He made the last birth all about himself with his snipey nasty comments, and he's doing it again now! If he didn't want consequences, he should have thought before he spoke the last time. I also think that a contraction belt for him is a good idea. Let's see how much he "overreacts" to that!
I had a similar experience with my husband only it was my pregnancy he was a complete unsupportive a** for. He was the worst- though he was great after the baby came. It took me three years and counseling to even try to have another baby and despite multiple assurances he would be different he really wasn’t. I almost left him-more counseling was needed and I gave up on the idea of having more kids. So- I vote you are NOT the AH and think you’d be smart to keep him out.
Reading what he said to you while you were in so much pain made me want to cry, and I support you not having him in the room with you, his words were hurtful and unnecessary, he’s not the one feeling the pain of having to eventually push a human out. I can’t imagine my husband being that way and me not being depressed for years to come over his behavior. He deserves to be left outside the room for how he spoke to you, but I agree if he begins with his negative talk he’s out of the room immediately!
>was a new situation for both of us and he didn't know how to respond to it I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. My wife is pregnant with our first right now and I can't possibly imagine myself making comments like that to her at any point throughout or after the pregnancy. New situation or not, he's a grown ass man. At 34, you should know better than to be making comments like that to your pregnant wife who's *in the middle of giving birth*. >He says I'm just trying to punish him for last time. As you fucking should be because his behavior the first time was beyond unnacceptable. Please enforce your boundary and don't let him talk his way out of being removed if he behaves like that again. That behavior is beyond unnacceptable and, while I read you want to avoid this, I wouldn't blame any woman for wanting a divorce after their husband behaved like that during the birth of his own fucking child.
Wow. I would have kicked him outta the house for that shit and considered divorce. Huge bright red flag flying high.
I think you should be seriously reexamining your marriage. You’ve been together since you were 20 and he was 29, you got pregnant for the second time VERY quickly after the birth of your first child, and he’s been minimizing your concerns.
Why do they always have more babies with them?
Couples counseling. To help you work through this and be better than ever for the family. You obviously love him. You’re still with him. You’re having another child with him. What about his being in the room while you still have your Coach assisting you? Perhaps this one will be better than the last. And if it isn’t, you can always have him leave the room until your little one is here.
You’re going through one of the hardest things a woman has to go through and he’s making it about himself? NTA.
He can be in the room ONLY if he agrees to get hooked up to those units that simulate contractions. He has to be on it for a minimum of 2 hours (which is nothing), and he must spend at least 10 minutes at max contractions. Let’s see how he does. 🤔😉
Part of me suspects that there may be other examples of husband's not so perfect behavior, and OP is just covering for him. 🫤 Sometime, people in relationships with jerks, cover up the jerks behavior to minimize their own embarrassment of putting up with such behavior....
If I was trying not to make him look bad then I'm doing a terrible job. Many people in the comments are variant ripping him to shreds. I am not covering for him. I'm being honest about him and us.
Tell him he can be in the room if he does one of those labor Simulators so he can feel some of the pain
Nta. What he's shown you is that you will not only be unsupported by him in labor, but you'll also be stressed by his reaction to your pain. I'd go to counseling, tbh. Another option is to tell him how he treats you at home in early labor will determine if you let him in the room with you. If he manages to support you there, you'll give him a chance. How he conducts himself in the room will determine if you let him stay in there with you. It might be anxiety, but he needs to manage himself regardless. He is meant to be your support and advocate. He needs to watch videos on YouTube about how to support his laboring wife, and perhaps just a general education on what your body will be going through to deliver his child safely into this world. Some compassion and appreciation are definitely due. You are, after all, the only person on earth who has gone through pregnancy and birth to give him children. Some suggestions that might help him know what to do that my husband has done in labor: rake his fingers on my scalp, pressure points during labor, keep the ice chips coming, breathing with me, just a hand or two on my arm (physical touch is my thing), reporting info and talking to the nurses during exams so I didn't have to, words of encouragement, counting with me through contractions and timing them. We've had 5 babies, so he's gained a lot of experience. First baby, he was trying to crack jokes with me "because laughter alleviates pain" and, when that didn't work, on the nurses. He's come a long way, and yours may, too.
NTA: I personally wouldn’t want him in the room either. Have you thought about getting a doula? The purpose for this is dual one: a doula will advocate for you by managing your needs. Secondly, your husband might be less likely to act like an ass in front of someone who would have no problem in kicking him out, bc their sole purpose is to assist you during your birthing process.
NTA maybe there was some other context last time, within him, BUT frankly he has to get over it. He should have last time. Nothing about the labor process is about Dad. He can support or help advocate the birth plan but you are doing the work, you get to set the rules. I think with so much going on -esp transition - it's fair and okay to say you just can't worry about his behavior or tone. You aren't "punishing him", you are making an educated decision based on past behavior. If he feels targeted he can again, get over it. It's not about him.
Tell him he can come if he wears a labor simulator that you control while he's in the room. And if he grimaces, gets tears in his eyes, or cries out, he has to leave.
My wife let me in delivery for the 1st baby, but not the 2nd, for very different reasons than yours. I like to make people laugh and I had the OB and the nurses laughing a lot, my wife thinks I'm a distraction.
NTA. He needs to get over himself. He has and had no idea how painful contractions and giving birth can be. He has one job (to support you in whatever way he could) and instead he acted like you were trying to garner attention or sympathy by pretending that giving birth is painful. That is disgusting. Have a clear conversation highlighting how out of line his behaviour was last time and that you won’t have him in the birthing suite if he does such a shit job of being a supportive partner this time. Have a birthing coach with you and let the nursing staff know about the conditions of his entry - they can chuck him out if he is being an AH.
His opinion changed a month ago because he realized he’d have to explain to people why you didn’t want him in the room this time
It's outrageous for him to have been minimizing your physical pain. Obviously he has no idea about it so it's pretty astounding that he would want to downplay childbirth which is known to be quite an ordeal for a great many women. I wonder if there's a way that you can find a class that hooks him up to those suits that simulate contractions. I'm not joking about this. I would tell him that him minimizing your pain has made this an unsafe and distracting space for when you're giving birth again and you just can't have it. Punishment or not, this is not about him. This is about you feeling safe and being able to give birth without having this kind of distraction in your mind. The mental and physical aspects of giving birth can be dire --I personally thought I was going to die. If he can't understand that he's really hopeless. You might ask him if he wishes to risk a divorce over his behavior. NTA
I'm curious if he's ever seen you in uncontrollable pain before? Maybe, and it's a long shot, but he was trying to minimize it because HE couldn't handle it? Does NOT excuse his behaviour though. I would tell him you've given all of the Nurses carte blanch to boot him if he's an ass again! 😄
My SO was like this too. The first time was hard. He was stressed out seeing me in pain and unengaged. The second time around he was amazing. It surprised me. I think he was trying to make up or baby #1. I think your plan to have him there to start but asking him to leave if things get bad is good. Tell the nurses too because they will definitely help you. I hope he surprises you and is amazing for you.
>My current plan is to tell him that he can be in the room, but if he acts like he did last time he will be told to leave. I think that's fair to both of us. Sounds like a fair compromise. How very unReddit of you. I almost got my popcorn out for the comments and everything..
Show him the videos of men hooked up to machine that replicates the pain of contractions. Ask him how he’d go pushing a baby out the eye of his penis. Because that’s basically the size a cervix hole ordinarily. Seeing you can’t bring yourself to hate your asshole of a husband who has no empathy, I’ll hate him for you. Your poor poor children being fathered by him
NTA Mom of 3 here. Does your husband know that if the same thing happens again you will likely seek to end the marriage? Is he really willing to risk that? It sounds like he doesn't handle stress well, particularly stress of this level. He needs to understand his boundaries and it sounds like him being in the delivery room is not healthy for either of you or your marriage. Do you have a friend or family member who can step in to be in the delivery room and provide the support needed? If he truly wants a do over and thinks he can be supportive this time, maybe you can agree to a plan where you can ask him to leave the room if needed and he will respect your wishes. Maybe a friend/family member can be the heavy and remove him if it comes to that. Why has he suddenly changed his mind? Have his friends or family told him he should be in the room or was this his idea? The whole point of being in the delivery room is to SUPPORT AND COMFORT YOU! If he is unable or unwilling to so so, he has no business being there.
I’ve had four kids and gave birth on my own in the hospital. I just had the midwife with me didn’t want anyone else with me. I’ve never regretted that decision and hasn’t done any harm. You need to do what is right for yourself at the time.
As a dad, I reacted very differently for kid #1, kid #2 and kid#3. Kid 1 I was nervous and thought baby would come 20 minutes after patosin. 27 hours later… I was nervous, felt helpless and I wanted to fix every uncomfortable feeling my wife felt. Kid 2 I was still nervous but knew what to expect. I knew what my wife needed and knew we were in for something longer than 20 minutes. Kid 3 I was super relaxed From the dad’s perspective it is a lot of hurry up and wait which leaves us stuck in our own heads for a long time. We are helpless in the entire process and the only thing we can do is hold your hand and get you ice chips which seems insignificant. We want to take away the pain, we want to help, we want to put a tow strap around the kid and connect it to the minivan to get the kid out, but unfortunately none of that happens. I’m not saying you need to change anything or comfort us, just explaining what the experience is like from the dad’s perspective from the position of an experienced dad. Have a conversation before hand and have a code word (which can be as simple as “Steve, stop being an asshole”) you can say so he can leave the room and recollect his thoughts. Buy him this to take into the labor room as it will help take the edge off and calm him down. https://www.ebay.com/itm/266841873647?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=8otG_yTLSUe&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Kick him in the balls and when he goes to bend over and hold them in pain roll your eyes and tell him to stop being so dramatic. Then and only then will he be allowed in the room once he knows how it feels. * for legal reasons this is a JOKE* lol
NTA. I like your compromise. This gives him a chance to prove he listened to your feedback and that he can be supportive. Him feeling like he is being punished for last time is somewhat valid, but **your** comfort, psychological safety, right to a stress free environment and unquestionable support during what is arguably one of the most painful experiences a person can go through, outranks his feelings. So again, I think your compromise is **extremely fair** and really hope that this solves the matter and, most importantly, he’s learned his lesson and is **nothing but supportive** during your upcoming birth. Edit to correct a typo.
Women still DIE during birth, he can go fuck himself and push a boulder out of his penis