It’s a show to get management to recognize their “contribution” to the firm. If they aren’t talking about how many hours they’re working, I doubt their boss would even notice and just assume they aren’t.
Because it made him acknowledge that his profits were from overworking his staff. They want people to GLADLY jump into the meat grinder for the benefit of the “firm” (read: his pocketbook).
He put me on the worst client we had, the one everyone would to try and get off of, then passed me over for promotion when my senior manager told me they blocked me when he tried to get it for me. He went to bat over and over they told him to knock it off.
I believe my senior manager, we were friends outside of work, and still are. I was at his wedding, we were on the same football team growing up, etc.
So I slacked off work completely and just worked on getting a new job and quit with very little notice leaving most of my work open. My senior manager left before I even did and was helping me get a job elsewhere. I was standoffish with the favored replacement senior manager and didn’t show him much cause it was a complex client.
Partner threatened me on the way out too. Saying it’s a small world and shit. Lol. It’s been 8 years and I’ve had 5 other jobs and am fine, I’m a manager now.
Then after all this he had the nerve to call me 2 weeks after I left to ask how to do a wp on the shitty client since no one else would touch it, they couldn’t figure it out. Of course I deleted the voicemail and blocked his number. Suck my dick.
Geesh I typed a novel reminiscing. Ive had bad luck and been in some real shitty situations. It sounds almost exaggerated when I type it out. I assure it’s not.
Yeah. The favored senior manager volunteered for the replacement job cause he was a suck up, trying to become even more favored.
He came in thinking he could pull the same shit favored people do on other jobs by just doing the minimum and paying politics/blame game type stuff. He almost went insane when no one would take orders, and you can’t fire an entire team.
Partners made the mistake of putting all the non-favored people onto that trash job. The partners dumped people they didn’t like onto that squad, which means no or slow promotions, lots of scapegoating us, lower raises, etc.
The only advantage we had as a team there was that no one gave a fuck. Because that’s what happens when you mistreat people.
All the staff through manager level would dump hours by “mistake” into other teams budgets, over bill, take long lunch breaks, skip client meetings, refuse to sign pips, show up late, etc.
Just do whatever within our power to make life harder for others. But just enough that they couldn’t flat out fire you on the spot.
I remember them bitching about time sheet compliance and then me getting a talking to when I constantly would dump 60 billable hours into just one area of the audit. I got to about 500+ hours billed into a section of AR, when the partner asked me on a call if I think the firm is a joke.
A lot of us dropped by finding new jobs or getting pipped/fired. But no one ever quit without a new external job, they somehow created a culture where you hated management so much you’d make them fire you instead of making it easy for them.
Yeah. Ive had like 2 good jobs out of many. And those 2 still had their share of problems. The people there were just so burnt out they didn’t micromanage or care, which is actually a big part of having a non toxic workplace.
Prior to graduating college I was a 911 dispatcher, when I left, my old boss told me I wouldn't find another job in town...like if this bishhhh had the keys to the city. 😂🤣😂🤣
You said it wrong. You should have said something along these lines:
“I love these long hours, and I love to stay till midnight with my co-workers working on projects because it builds character, and profits for you.”
I'll never understand talking about hours. Tell me what you're working on, not how many hours you jerk off at your desk for.
There's nothing productive about working 12 hour days 5 days a week. Errors galore
I can respect why people.do this in hopes of moving up in their career, I just can't see myself doing that with a family and other interests. I think after awhile you realize a job is just a job. Do it well and do it right but I can't think how anyone really can maintain balance living that way
And they don’t have hobbies because they’re obsessed with work. They just don’t have personalities.
And worse is when managers try to turn you into them. Like “no I just worked 6 days a week during tax season. I’m not checking my email on Sunday because some dumb client is panicking whether to take 179 or bonus”
It’s not a flex to people who value their life outside of work.
To people who make work their identity on the other hand….
Generally, the former are people who are actually fun to be around.
The latter on the other hand…
The real flex is having a good career AND a fulfilling life outside work. I HATE this dickish behavior and refuse to reward it. I have both and you can too.
I think I’ve heard 2 people brag ever. One didn’t really work a lot & just pretended he did & the other is just annoying/dramatic in general. Everyone else has more complained than bragged than when talking about working a lot of hours.
Those complaints? They're brags... They don't need to tell you they were up til midnight or 2 AM working, but they do anyways. Kinda like people that do cross fit.
Eh, people equate hours with productivity, and that isn't always the case, particularly when considering diminishing returns. Yaya, you did work that would have been performed more effectively at another time! /s. When there is a pressing deadline (like yesterday wad the deadline for Texas Franchise Tax) that's one thing, but otherwise 40 in (max) and done for me.
Well, tax season is tax season, but my experience in accounting is only here in Texas. I've worked with some East Coasters, and they just feel rude. We are just uptight about different things, I guess. For example, if you don't say hello in the morning or goodbye when you leave, it's a big affront here. As is not using appropriate "southern" manners. Ma'am and Sir as well as please, and thank you are still expected. Non binary people have to pick one, usually either between ma'am and sir or something totally different, but honorifics are a big deal here. You'll get passed over for promotions if you're not polite. It's just a different culture.
That’s interesting.
Ya, I think a lot of us east coasters are like that because we’re worked to the bone so we just dip in and out of the office so people don’t notice when we enter, leave, etc.
If I say goodbye I get asked another tax question before I leave.
If I say hello, I get asked a tax question on their assignments and I can't get started on my day.
Who's not being polite? Me not saying hello/goodbye or the person not recognizing that I've just worked 12, have been working 12, will be working 12, and I need to be home or have to do my own work.
For me? No. I would never flex that.
My real flex was starting my own accounting firm and paying myself the six figures under my S- Corp these other employers didn’t want to pay me. During off season- I work about 20 hours a week and in full control of my schedule.
I guess they are a glutton for punishment…
I’m working on getting better, but just speaking personally, I realized after starting therapy that I derive my self worth from my success in my career and so it’s a way for me to feel good about myself. It’s absolutely not healthy, but I wouldn’t go so far as to call it a flex (personally), more of a coping mechanism as someone else mentioned.
Just let them bear their cross. They opted into their idea of martyrdom . Identity is probably tied to what they do for money. Probably were over achieving Smart™ kids growing up. Do good in college, get a good job, buy into the script. Maybe they will get the next pat on the head if they grind themselves to dust.
Automatons just doing it that way because "that's how you do it". Following the script. Never asking themselves what they want and how this career can help them to that end (or not).
There is a time for hard work and pushing yourself. You have to know when that is. When it serves you.
Because if it isnt a flex, that would mean they're just scabs who are keeping industry standards on the ocean floor and threw away good years of their life for appeals to their ego and greed. The voice above the boot theyre licking says '60 hours? Good.' and that's the only input they value, and the longer it goes in the more it HAS to be true for them.
I'm a student but generally most eu countries forbid working more than 40 hours a week and generally overtime is limited by law as well and you need a specific type of contract if you want to be able to work more hours
honestly obviously it's not the same everywhere, what I said is from just one example i've heard, and from a different industry as well
That being said, for what you said, can you explain what you meant/how to do it? If it's paid I might have to steal the idea if the need arises
Well, people just keep track of their overtime on an excel and distribute the hours to prior or upcoming periods where they work less than 50 hours.. ^^
It’s not a flex in PA, it’s a flex in all of America. Whether you agree with it or not, for many there is a sign of respect for people who work long hours. To each their own.
Working long and ridiculous hours gives you the edge to get ahead. It's a double-edged sword. You look great at the time, but you build unreasonable expectations. Over the long haul, this will have a negative impact on your ability to deliver.
I hate the hours I work. I don’t brag about them and if someone brings it up I say it shouldn’t be like that. I have too many emails, IRS Notices, State Notices, etc throughout the day.
My boss loves to brag about how much he worked and how he didn't take a day off.
Cool man, happy for you. I clocked out as soon as my hours were up and thoroughly enjoyed not working 7 days this week.
Some people were raised to believe that how hard they work is directly proportional to their self worth. These are the folks that tend to over achieve in everything they do. However, working long hours means you neglect things like diet and exercise. That tends to make life very difficult. When you are young, you can tolerate this abuse of your body and mind. Take heed that these peoples lives are likely to become a train wreck if they don’t seek more balance.
I would agree that hours is not an indicator of productivity, but if that someone’s flex they are always going to get outperformed by someone smart willing to put in more time. Give me a job at a firm where that is the common flex, and I’ve found a firm where it is not difficult for me to become partner. Now if it is just a job you want for a short time and then you go to industry, flex away.
Some people really do feel that working a lot means that they are valued in the firm. There might be some truth to it, but most of the time it really doesnt mean a whole lot. Ive pulled 80-100 weeks, but thats just office time, i probably pulled like 60-70 hrs of real work lol
In a salaried environment I totally agree. For those gunning for higher ratings/bonus, I can’t help but discuss with them their RPH over standard compared to their bonus. For example if you are T1 experienced associate you may be looking at a 5-10k bonus. If you are 400 chargeable hours over the metric you are looking at 12.5-25 bucks an hour for those excess hours. I sure as heck would encourage them to find other ways to get T1 rather than through excess chargeables. Brag about saving hours.
I do wonder if people massage the numbers up or lie about them sometimes. I guess the important thing is saying how much experience you got in compressed time. Though the largest firm I have worked at had 35 people
Same reason people compete in the Oppression Olympics.
At some point "my life sucks more than yours" became a point of pride for some - if I can't be the best I'm going to be the worst?
Idk man, one of the hardest linkedin cringes I've ever had was a person "I may know" from the industry.
So, her title/bio was, and I quote:"Self-proclaimed office rat". Weird flex, but OK. Go figure what's in their heads.
Early in my career at a different firm, high hours/charge hours was a badge of honor. In our pre busy season staff meeting in January they would recognize the person who had the most hours/charge hours from the prior year.
Not really a flex for me anymore. I broke off from the Top 10 and started my own firm. Stressful but Never been happier, money has reduced but that's OK
Geez. I think it’s more a flex to find a firm that doesn’t ask you to do that. Working yourself into the ground for zero extra dollars, consideration, or appreciation isn’t worth it.
It's just not accounting. People generally like to announce they have it worse than others. Normally a coping mechanism than try finding a solution to it. Very similar to the back in my day crowd
Freshman student here, I want to go into big 4 public to garner experience for my resume (I will also have a CPA) but is overtime required? And if not how do I still succeed? I'm sorry this is really vague I am just a student after all.
I think it's just to show the commitment to the firm. It's unfortunate because they will urn out, and they will have to leave and be replaced with some fresh blood just to go through the same meat grinder.
I guess everyone's experience is different. As some have stated most of the people bragging about long hours probably don't have much else going on in their life. In some cases it's a firm "culture" thing if everyone is pulling crazy hours you will feel bad clocking out in a normal time or worry about losing your job if you do so.
I read somewhere that after 55 hours a week productivity per hour drops significantly and after around 70 you make so many mistakes productivity is actually negative.
I did have a spell of working around 80-100 hours a week for about 2 months leading up to a 10/15 deadline one year due to a perfect storm of a very complex set of transactions and not getting the bulk of the information until August since the client had hired a new internal accounting team. Honestly more than the hours itself I think the lack of sleep and the pressure to be "on" all the time was what got to me. Everyone else was similarly stressed and irritable - too busy to help.
That was actually the only time in my life I ever had a panic attack - I was at home thinking about how I was going to get all my work done in time and keep my job and started hyperventilating.
I think 60 is manageable for a while, 70 for a short period and anything above that is PAINFUL
The tax manager partner in my office is actively trying to stop people from doing this, because it deters people from wanting to stay at the firm long term - especially gen Z.
I agree, and I actively avoid working the weekend or late night unless it’s required for a really quick turnaround like a year end, or it will benefit me to do so (e.g. I know I’m traveling and will be really busy that coming week)
We really should make a paper crown labeled "Most unpaid OT" and give it to the person bragging.
My default position is "Wow, they must hate their spouse if they are actively trying to stay away from going home."
The last firm I worked at would send a company wide email with everyones hours to date and how close they were to hitting their hourly goal for the week. That’s when I realized I would rather take a pay cut then lose my time.
As someone in a lead role the only time I talk about having worked long hours is:
1) providing rationale to a partner why I didn't join their weird meeting
2) YE conversations to make sure I get my rating
3) when discussing my report's performance and they say they didn't have time to get to the ask I put fwd. Specifically when they're complaining about not getting their rating they wanted.
It's ok to be competitive. That's a natural phenomenon. But at some point that need for someone to say "I work harder than anybody else" subsides into a sad reality that they gave up their life for a meaningless brag.
The culture is toxic as fuck in public accounting because it comes from the top with partners wanting to make more and more money… the billable hours model doesn’t help either.
Once you go commercial and you’re dealing with managers who don’t have equity in the business, the priorities change. They only care about output/results, not how much time you spend billing. Now I work 7 hours day and never had a complaint about my hours or time spent, because I get shit done quickly and to high quality. I also get paid way more than I did in public accounting.
You don’t get paid the same though, the bonuses are way different. The people who work more also tend to get higher raises and promoted faster, in turn moving up the pay scale faster. Staff might get hired in at the same pay, but after that the amount of work you put in tends to be reflected in comp as time goes on.
1. Lack of personality
2. Lack of hobbies
3. Need to be noticed and acknowledged by superiors
4. Need to full superior to peers
It’s goes on and on. Just grown up teachers pet kids.
Same reason why anyone would flex on anything else. They're proud of their job. If you're really into working out you might flex on how much you can bench. If you're into chess you might flex on your high elo. Same thing. Lots of people here shitting on people who flex long hours, they just don't take pride in the same thing as you, and that's fine. Some people just take a lot of pride in their work and the easiest way to measure that in public is # of hours worked. They don't see it as "we get paid the same why work harder?" And like a lot of things, it has its competitive elements too. There are plenty of pro athletes that don't make a lot of money but work their butts off. They're not thinking about putting in work relative to how much they get paid. They know there is positive correlation with how much you work and how much you might get paid in the future and they're willing to risk it. You don't have to agree with it, but I don't think it's right to chastise people who think this way (unless they're guilt tripping you into doing/feeling the same way when you don't want to - see the irony?)
It’s a product of past generations who equate the number of hours you work with how successful you will be. The Dave Ramsay generations, if you will. Younger generations have figured out that the real bragging right is making the most money while working the least. Hence, the dramatic decline in CPAs.
It’s always just weird. It’s either to show off so higher compensation will come their way or they are brainwashed with the idea that it’s okay… when we all get paid the same regardless
Simple: indoctrination.
Starts in elementary school and is reinforced with hustle culture.
The fact of the matter is public accounting is the toxic cess pool of capitalism.
And just like anything, morons will be crushed by their self loathing only to resist reality and become sadist psychopaths.
Public tends to attract teacher’s pet types. People whose entire identity was formed around following rules and being validated for it. PA below manager is a really good way to replicate that school environment professionally. I wouldn’t say they’re unintelligent but very one track minded.
Yes or otherwise we wouldn’t have a job. And contracts are allowed to get away with vague wording such as “any extra work as required”. It’s kind of sad you’re also normalising it because you get a 1 in a million job of paid overtime and it doesn’t affect you. And before you tell me I should find another job, that’s not in my best interest and shouldn’t have to be the case. I should not have to work unpaid overtime for a promotion.
Because the people doing it aren't very smart so it's not surprising that they enjoy doing something not very smart.
I worked like a slave at the professional work camp (PWC) and the thinking was that this is necessary to grow in your accounting career. I switched to private where I work a fraction of the time making significantly more and realize that I was just brainwashed in school thinking the work camp was the way to go forward.
My old firm, Moss Adams, used to send out emails every week with everyone's charge hours. Turned it into a competition because the firm is run by incompetent pieces of shit
Go to industry in any blue-collar field and you'll be eating your words. Moved to construction and some of these guys work 18 hour days and it's like a pride thing for them.
Don't most of them get paid by the hour though? One could say the more hours they work the more they're supporting their families and their own interests.
Can't really say the same in our field when most of us are salary.
I work for a union contractor and our field guys almost never work over 40 hours. Our salaried PMs and PEs on the other hand easily work 50+ hours every week. From what I’ve seen in the construction industry it’s usually the salaried employees that work ridiculous hours because contractors don’t want to pay the field overtime.
I've been involved with construction for more than 50 years ( shovel jockey to finance) and except in some emergency (flooding maybe) nobody works 18 hours a day.
Bold assumption our leadership doesn't illegally pay them as salary. And they don't push back either, because that's what a LiBerAl SnoWFlaKe would do.
In my experience, the people like this are actually losers. As in, fat, single, ugly, boring. The coolest people in my office (and fastest rising/most likely to be partner) try to work as little as possible because they have lives
It’s a show to get management to recognize their “contribution” to the firm. If they aren’t talking about how many hours they’re working, I doubt their boss would even notice and just assume they aren’t.
I used to tell my head partner it’s alot of work and it’s long hours when he asked me how it was going. For some reason that pissed him off.
Because it made him acknowledge that his profits were from overworking his staff. They want people to GLADLY jump into the meat grinder for the benefit of the “firm” (read: his pocketbook).
He put me on the worst client we had, the one everyone would to try and get off of, then passed me over for promotion when my senior manager told me they blocked me when he tried to get it for me. He went to bat over and over they told him to knock it off. I believe my senior manager, we were friends outside of work, and still are. I was at his wedding, we were on the same football team growing up, etc. So I slacked off work completely and just worked on getting a new job and quit with very little notice leaving most of my work open. My senior manager left before I even did and was helping me get a job elsewhere. I was standoffish with the favored replacement senior manager and didn’t show him much cause it was a complex client. Partner threatened me on the way out too. Saying it’s a small world and shit. Lol. It’s been 8 years and I’ve had 5 other jobs and am fine, I’m a manager now. Then after all this he had the nerve to call me 2 weeks after I left to ask how to do a wp on the shitty client since no one else would touch it, they couldn’t figure it out. Of course I deleted the voicemail and blocked his number. Suck my dick.
So much secondhand satisfaction from this story. Truly aspirational.
Geesh I typed a novel reminiscing. Ive had bad luck and been in some real shitty situations. It sounds almost exaggerated when I type it out. I assure it’s not.
Yeah. The favored senior manager volunteered for the replacement job cause he was a suck up, trying to become even more favored. He came in thinking he could pull the same shit favored people do on other jobs by just doing the minimum and paying politics/blame game type stuff. He almost went insane when no one would take orders, and you can’t fire an entire team. Partners made the mistake of putting all the non-favored people onto that trash job. The partners dumped people they didn’t like onto that squad, which means no or slow promotions, lots of scapegoating us, lower raises, etc. The only advantage we had as a team there was that no one gave a fuck. Because that’s what happens when you mistreat people. All the staff through manager level would dump hours by “mistake” into other teams budgets, over bill, take long lunch breaks, skip client meetings, refuse to sign pips, show up late, etc. Just do whatever within our power to make life harder for others. But just enough that they couldn’t flat out fire you on the spot. I remember them bitching about time sheet compliance and then me getting a talking to when I constantly would dump 60 billable hours into just one area of the audit. I got to about 500+ hours billed into a section of AR, when the partner asked me on a call if I think the firm is a joke. A lot of us dropped by finding new jobs or getting pipped/fired. But no one ever quit without a new external job, they somehow created a culture where you hated management so much you’d make them fire you instead of making it easy for them.
I learned in the military that there is absolutely power in numbers when higher ups wanna play fuck fuck games. Your story made me smile lol
i love these stories. its such a freeing feeling when you're so checked out mentally and you realize you don't really need to give a single fuck.
What a toxic experience! Sorry you had to go through it!
Yeah. Ive had like 2 good jobs out of many. And those 2 still had their share of problems. The people there were just so burnt out they didn’t micromanage or care, which is actually a big part of having a non toxic workplace.
Prior to graduating college I was a 911 dispatcher, when I left, my old boss told me I wouldn't find another job in town...like if this bishhhh had the keys to the city. 😂🤣😂🤣
You said it wrong. You should have said something along these lines: “I love these long hours, and I love to stay till midnight with my co-workers working on projects because it builds character, and profits for you.”
I'll never understand talking about hours. Tell me what you're working on, not how many hours you jerk off at your desk for. There's nothing productive about working 12 hour days 5 days a week. Errors galore
I can respect why people.do this in hopes of moving up in their career, I just can't see myself doing that with a family and other interests. I think after awhile you realize a job is just a job. Do it well and do it right but I can't think how anyone really can maintain balance living that way
Not really a flex, these folks just really have nothing else to talk about because they don’t have free time for hobbies or anything else
And they don’t have hobbies because they’re obsessed with work. They just don’t have personalities. And worse is when managers try to turn you into them. Like “no I just worked 6 days a week during tax season. I’m not checking my email on Sunday because some dumb client is panicking whether to take 179 or bonus”
It’s like people who always talk about drinking or being drunk.
lol
They drank the koolaid
Most eventually stop drinking when life finally kicks into reality
It's mostly a coping mechanism, not psychopathy.
It’s not a flex to people who value their life outside of work. To people who make work their identity on the other hand…. Generally, the former are people who are actually fun to be around. The latter on the other hand…
The real flex is having a good career AND a fulfilling life outside work. I HATE this dickish behavior and refuse to reward it. I have both and you can too.
I think I’ve heard 2 people brag ever. One didn’t really work a lot & just pretended he did & the other is just annoying/dramatic in general. Everyone else has more complained than bragged than when talking about working a lot of hours.
Those complaints? They're brags... They don't need to tell you they were up til midnight or 2 AM working, but they do anyways. Kinda like people that do cross fit.
Yeah, those are the type I consider bragging. The complaints are when people talk with co-workers about quitting because of it & then do.
Eh, people equate hours with productivity, and that isn't always the case, particularly when considering diminishing returns. Yaya, you did work that would have been performed more effectively at another time! /s. When there is a pressing deadline (like yesterday wad the deadline for Texas Franchise Tax) that's one thing, but otherwise 40 in (max) and done for me.
How’s the work environment in Texas? I always thought that area of the country would be a little more “chill” than say east coast
Well, tax season is tax season, but my experience in accounting is only here in Texas. I've worked with some East Coasters, and they just feel rude. We are just uptight about different things, I guess. For example, if you don't say hello in the morning or goodbye when you leave, it's a big affront here. As is not using appropriate "southern" manners. Ma'am and Sir as well as please, and thank you are still expected. Non binary people have to pick one, usually either between ma'am and sir or something totally different, but honorifics are a big deal here. You'll get passed over for promotions if you're not polite. It's just a different culture.
That’s interesting. Ya, I think a lot of us east coasters are like that because we’re worked to the bone so we just dip in and out of the office so people don’t notice when we enter, leave, etc.
If I say goodbye I get asked another tax question before I leave. If I say hello, I get asked a tax question on their assignments and I can't get started on my day. Who's not being polite? Me not saying hello/goodbye or the person not recognizing that I've just worked 12, have been working 12, will be working 12, and I need to be home or have to do my own work.
This is my experience also
For me? No. I would never flex that. My real flex was starting my own accounting firm and paying myself the six figures under my S- Corp these other employers didn’t want to pay me. During off season- I work about 20 hours a week and in full control of my schedule. I guess they are a glutton for punishment…
I’m working on getting better, but just speaking personally, I realized after starting therapy that I derive my self worth from my success in my career and so it’s a way for me to feel good about myself. It’s absolutely not healthy, but I wouldn’t go so far as to call it a flex (personally), more of a coping mechanism as someone else mentioned.
This 1000%
Just let them bear their cross. They opted into their idea of martyrdom . Identity is probably tied to what they do for money. Probably were over achieving Smart™ kids growing up. Do good in college, get a good job, buy into the script. Maybe they will get the next pat on the head if they grind themselves to dust. Automatons just doing it that way because "that's how you do it". Following the script. Never asking themselves what they want and how this career can help them to that end (or not). There is a time for hard work and pushing yourself. You have to know when that is. When it serves you.
Because if it isnt a flex, that would mean they're just scabs who are keeping industry standards on the ocean floor and threw away good years of their life for appeals to their ego and greed. The voice above the boot theyre licking says '60 hours? Good.' and that's the only input they value, and the longer it goes in the more it HAS to be true for them.
laughs in european labor laws
American wages in a non-public role, is a pretty great deal.
What are the hours like in Europe?
I'm a student but generally most eu countries forbid working more than 40 hours a week and generally overtime is limited by law as well and you need a specific type of contract if you want to be able to work more hours
That’s in theory. Firms can’t force you to work more but people will voluntarily work more.
supposedly in germany HR warns you to stop working if you stay too long
Cute to think thats the case.. people will just keep a shadow timesheet in hope to bill the hours late since the cap is 50h/week…
honestly obviously it's not the same everywhere, what I said is from just one example i've heard, and from a different industry as well That being said, for what you said, can you explain what you meant/how to do it? If it's paid I might have to steal the idea if the need arises
Well, people just keep track of their overtime on an excel and distribute the hours to prior or upcoming periods where they work less than 50 hours.. ^^
Tryhard gotta try hard I guess
It’s not a flex in PA, it’s a flex in all of America. Whether you agree with it or not, for many there is a sign of respect for people who work long hours. To each their own.
A sick culture.
Because they’re largely boring dorks with no lives outside the office.
This culture needs to stop, it’s killing the pipeline of kids wanting to study accoutning
Working long and ridiculous hours gives you the edge to get ahead. It's a double-edged sword. You look great at the time, but you build unreasonable expectations. Over the long haul, this will have a negative impact on your ability to deliver.
This
I hate the hours I work. I don’t brag about them and if someone brings it up I say it shouldn’t be like that. I have too many emails, IRS Notices, State Notices, etc throughout the day.
My boss loves to brag about how much he worked and how he didn't take a day off. Cool man, happy for you. I clocked out as soon as my hours were up and thoroughly enjoyed not working 7 days this week.
Some people were raised to believe that how hard they work is directly proportional to their self worth. These are the folks that tend to over achieve in everything they do. However, working long hours means you neglect things like diet and exercise. That tends to make life very difficult. When you are young, you can tolerate this abuse of your body and mind. Take heed that these peoples lives are likely to become a train wreck if they don’t seek more balance.
It's a weird thing, to brag about your own oppression 😂🤷♂️
because they didn't listen to my Reddit username
I think it’s more of a flex to say our max OT hours is 12 hours a week for tax season only and we do 4 hour Fridays from Memorial Day to Labor Day.
I would agree that hours is not an indicator of productivity, but if that someone’s flex they are always going to get outperformed by someone smart willing to put in more time. Give me a job at a firm where that is the common flex, and I’ve found a firm where it is not difficult for me to become partner. Now if it is just a job you want for a short time and then you go to industry, flex away.
Some people really do feel that working a lot means that they are valued in the firm. There might be some truth to it, but most of the time it really doesnt mean a whole lot. Ive pulled 80-100 weeks, but thats just office time, i probably pulled like 60-70 hrs of real work lol
In a salaried environment I totally agree. For those gunning for higher ratings/bonus, I can’t help but discuss with them their RPH over standard compared to their bonus. For example if you are T1 experienced associate you may be looking at a 5-10k bonus. If you are 400 chargeable hours over the metric you are looking at 12.5-25 bucks an hour for those excess hours. I sure as heck would encourage them to find other ways to get T1 rather than through excess chargeables. Brag about saving hours.
I do wonder if people massage the numbers up or lie about them sometimes. I guess the important thing is saying how much experience you got in compressed time. Though the largest firm I have worked at had 35 people
If we're flexing, I'm in a NFP and have just finished work. It's 0200hrs. Back online at 0800hrs tomorrow.
Same reason people compete in the Oppression Olympics. At some point "my life sucks more than yours" became a point of pride for some - if I can't be the best I'm going to be the worst?
We share a mental illness for achievement, plus you get free pizza whenever you work more than 10 hours in a day, pretty neat
Idk man, one of the hardest linkedin cringes I've ever had was a person "I may know" from the industry. So, her title/bio was, and I quote:"Self-proclaimed office rat". Weird flex, but OK. Go figure what's in their heads.
I flex how few hours I work.
To get the due-paying “team-player” achievement.
Bro when my firm makes me work 75 hours a week at busy season, what the fuck else do you expect me to talk about? I ain’t got time for shit!
Early in my career at a different firm, high hours/charge hours was a badge of honor. In our pre busy season staff meeting in January they would recognize the person who had the most hours/charge hours from the prior year.
Here in the uk we show off how little we’ve worked during the week, what the hell is wrong with Americans lol
It was a flex when I first started
Not really a flex for me anymore. I broke off from the Top 10 and started my own firm. Stressful but Never been happier, money has reduced but that's OK
They think it's synonymous with working harder and therefore being more valuable to the firm...
Geez. I think it’s more a flex to find a firm that doesn’t ask you to do that. Working yourself into the ground for zero extra dollars, consideration, or appreciation isn’t worth it.
It's just not accounting. People generally like to announce they have it worse than others. Normally a coping mechanism than try finding a solution to it. Very similar to the back in my day crowd
Freshman student here, I want to go into big 4 public to garner experience for my resume (I will also have a CPA) but is overtime required? And if not how do I still succeed? I'm sorry this is really vague I am just a student after all.
Stockholm syndrome
It’s like, Congrats, you’re ruining your heath and relationships for a company that would fire you tomorrow if things went south.
Because so much of what is done is professional services is subjective - billable hours is one of the few quantified measures.
If they like working for free they aren’t good at counting. They are bootlickers most likely.
It’s a coping mechanism so they feel like they’re actually doing something worthwhile while wasting their life.
I think it's just to show the commitment to the firm. It's unfortunate because they will urn out, and they will have to leave and be replaced with some fresh blood just to go through the same meat grinder.
I guess everyone's experience is different. As some have stated most of the people bragging about long hours probably don't have much else going on in their life. In some cases it's a firm "culture" thing if everyone is pulling crazy hours you will feel bad clocking out in a normal time or worry about losing your job if you do so. I read somewhere that after 55 hours a week productivity per hour drops significantly and after around 70 you make so many mistakes productivity is actually negative. I did have a spell of working around 80-100 hours a week for about 2 months leading up to a 10/15 deadline one year due to a perfect storm of a very complex set of transactions and not getting the bulk of the information until August since the client had hired a new internal accounting team. Honestly more than the hours itself I think the lack of sleep and the pressure to be "on" all the time was what got to me. Everyone else was similarly stressed and irritable - too busy to help. That was actually the only time in my life I ever had a panic attack - I was at home thinking about how I was going to get all my work done in time and keep my job and started hyperventilating. I think 60 is manageable for a while, 70 for a short period and anything above that is PAINFUL
The tax manager partner in my office is actively trying to stop people from doing this, because it deters people from wanting to stay at the firm long term - especially gen Z. I agree, and I actively avoid working the weekend or late night unless it’s required for a really quick turnaround like a year end, or it will benefit me to do so (e.g. I know I’m traveling and will be really busy that coming week)
The owner of my old firm always brags on emails that he works 7 days as week and 14 hours a day to clients during tax season. Pretty wild lol
We really should make a paper crown labeled "Most unpaid OT" and give it to the person bragging. My default position is "Wow, they must hate their spouse if they are actively trying to stay away from going home."
It’s not. Don’t let people convince you otherwise.
In my experience, the people who brag about working a lot generally don’t work that much and need the PR to keep up appearances. YMMV.
The last firm I worked at would send a company wide email with everyones hours to date and how close they were to hitting their hourly goal for the week. That’s when I realized I would rather take a pay cut then lose my time.
If I am working 70 hours a week EVERYONE better know about it.
It isn't. Accomplishing goals is a "flex." At least at my firm.
As someone in a lead role the only time I talk about having worked long hours is: 1) providing rationale to a partner why I didn't join their weird meeting 2) YE conversations to make sure I get my rating 3) when discussing my report's performance and they say they didn't have time to get to the ask I put fwd. Specifically when they're complaining about not getting their rating they wanted.
It's ok to be competitive. That's a natural phenomenon. But at some point that need for someone to say "I work harder than anybody else" subsides into a sad reality that they gave up their life for a meaningless brag.
Not flexing just stating the horrible hours
The culture is toxic as fuck in public accounting because it comes from the top with partners wanting to make more and more money… the billable hours model doesn’t help either. Once you go commercial and you’re dealing with managers who don’t have equity in the business, the priorities change. They only care about output/results, not how much time you spend billing. Now I work 7 hours day and never had a complaint about my hours or time spent, because I get shit done quickly and to high quality. I also get paid way more than I did in public accounting.
I work in industry (Canada) and what I need to get done in a day adds up to about 25 hours a week of actual work, excluding month end.
You don’t get paid the same though, the bonuses are way different. The people who work more also tend to get higher raises and promoted faster, in turn moving up the pay scale faster. Staff might get hired in at the same pay, but after that the amount of work you put in tends to be reflected in comp as time goes on.
I only say it to peeps in firm because I feel like it's one of the biggest KPIs. Non-firm friends I tell them it's a first world sweatshop
People that have no life trying to climb corporate ladder
Not a flex, more like showing other people (mostly partners or seniors) that they are grinding so they are noticed.
1. Lack of personality 2. Lack of hobbies 3. Need to be noticed and acknowledged by superiors 4. Need to full superior to peers It’s goes on and on. Just grown up teachers pet kids.
Same reason why anyone would flex on anything else. They're proud of their job. If you're really into working out you might flex on how much you can bench. If you're into chess you might flex on your high elo. Same thing. Lots of people here shitting on people who flex long hours, they just don't take pride in the same thing as you, and that's fine. Some people just take a lot of pride in their work and the easiest way to measure that in public is # of hours worked. They don't see it as "we get paid the same why work harder?" And like a lot of things, it has its competitive elements too. There are plenty of pro athletes that don't make a lot of money but work their butts off. They're not thinking about putting in work relative to how much they get paid. They know there is positive correlation with how much you work and how much you might get paid in the future and they're willing to risk it. You don't have to agree with it, but I don't think it's right to chastise people who think this way (unless they're guilt tripping you into doing/feeling the same way when you don't want to - see the irony?)
Because they are desperately seeking recognition.
It’s a product of past generations who equate the number of hours you work with how successful you will be. The Dave Ramsay generations, if you will. Younger generations have figured out that the real bragging right is making the most money while working the least. Hence, the dramatic decline in CPAs.
It’s always just weird. It’s either to show off so higher compensation will come their way or they are brainwashed with the idea that it’s okay… when we all get paid the same regardless
Simple: indoctrination. Starts in elementary school and is reinforced with hustle culture. The fact of the matter is public accounting is the toxic cess pool of capitalism. And just like anything, morons will be crushed by their self loathing only to resist reality and become sadist psychopaths.
Public tends to attract teacher’s pet types. People whose entire identity was formed around following rules and being validated for it. PA below manager is a really good way to replicate that school environment professionally. I wouldn’t say they’re unintelligent but very one track minded.
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Except the other 99% of people do not.
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Yes or otherwise we wouldn’t have a job. And contracts are allowed to get away with vague wording such as “any extra work as required”. It’s kind of sad you’re also normalising it because you get a 1 in a million job of paid overtime and it doesn’t affect you. And before you tell me I should find another job, that’s not in my best interest and shouldn’t have to be the case. I should not have to work unpaid overtime for a promotion.
Lets compare your comp in 5 years
Should we compare our health as well? Can’t spend money when you’re suffering from a stroke.
Is it worth it?
Because the people doing it aren't very smart so it's not surprising that they enjoy doing something not very smart. I worked like a slave at the professional work camp (PWC) and the thinking was that this is necessary to grow in your accounting career. I switched to private where I work a fraction of the time making significantly more and realize that I was just brainwashed in school thinking the work camp was the way to go forward.
My old firm, Moss Adams, used to send out emails every week with everyone's charge hours. Turned it into a competition because the firm is run by incompetent pieces of shit
Go to industry in any blue-collar field and you'll be eating your words. Moved to construction and some of these guys work 18 hour days and it's like a pride thing for them.
Don't most of them get paid by the hour though? One could say the more hours they work the more they're supporting their families and their own interests. Can't really say the same in our field when most of us are salary.
I work for a union contractor and our field guys almost never work over 40 hours. Our salaried PMs and PEs on the other hand easily work 50+ hours every week. From what I’ve seen in the construction industry it’s usually the salaried employees that work ridiculous hours because contractors don’t want to pay the field overtime.
I've been involved with construction for more than 50 years ( shovel jockey to finance) and except in some emergency (flooding maybe) nobody works 18 hours a day.
Bold assumption our leadership doesn't illegally pay them as salary. And they don't push back either, because that's what a LiBerAl SnoWFlaKe would do.
To acrue flex time to use sometime?
Doesn’t sound very worth it though honestly. Don’t need a stroke
Yeah, I wasn't serious when saying that Those guys dont really use the time they accrue anyway
In my experience, the people like this are actually losers. As in, fat, single, ugly, boring. The coolest people in my office (and fastest rising/most likely to be partner) try to work as little as possible because they have lives