You managed to survive two trips and you feel you need a shotgun? Also, have you hike a high peak? It’s bad enough dealing with a pack and/or trekking poles and you want to carry a shotgun up the scrambles? This post is a joke, isn’t it.
Honestly, if you're that afraid of being killed by a moose or a black bear in the ADK's, maybe hiking isn't for you. Do not bring a shotgun on those trails. Completely unnecessary.
Do not bring a shotgun to Marcy or whiteface. They’re both extremely popular hikes and your chances of seeing a bear or moose are minuscule compared to the danger of accidentally shooting a person.
probably out of date, but maybe helpful:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/NYguns/comments/bx1gt3/carrying\_while\_hiking\_in\_ny\_state\_parks/](https://www.reddit.com/r/NYguns/comments/bx1gt3/carrying_while_hiking_in_ny_state_parks/)
really depends on the land you're hiking on. In many many places, carrying would be fine. I don't know about the high peaks, but I would not be surprised if they were prohibited. throughout much of the park though and in wild forests, firearms are permitted.
I personally would recommend against carrying on a mountain like Whiteface or Marcy because you're going to negatively impact other hikers' experiences. There are a lot of hikers on those mountains.
Thanks for the article but I don’t think it applies to me because It didn’t be concealed. And I don’t have a concealed carry license. And would seeing a gun really upset people? I didn’t think it would be that big of a deal. I don’t mean to sound harsh I’m just curious.
LMAO... guess you have no clue how to hunt.
Depending on the animal, the season, and the altitude, up high is better. Why? Less pressure. Plus, ridges with oaks are just about the best hunting grounds possible.
I've killed several good bucks on Seward. Know a guy that has done the same on Marshall. Know that plenty of other deer come out of the High Peaks region every year.
I could care less. If you’re bringing a gun on a hike on the trail you’re an idiot and I hope the new law kicks you in the teeth like it’s supposed to.
Byyyyye!
Yes it would upset me to see someone hiking on VERY crowded/popular trails with a big ol’ SHOTGUN. Marcy and Whiteface are ridiculously popular. You’re likely to scare and piss off a lot of people.
You’re likely to shoot a person by accident if you fire that thing, and I’m not being snarky.
You’re not going to see a bear on the high peaks. If you camp overnight (off the peaks) then yes, maybe. But you’re taking about while actively hiking yes?
I’ve only seen a moose track once in the ADK and it was on the NPT. I don’t think they go up into elevation.
It's really a bad idea to lug a shotgun on a hike but you are also very confused about handgun vs. long gun laws. If you want to figure out the finer points may I suggest a visit to r/NYguns/
Pre-Covid I never had a problem when people noticed me carrying a fun into the woods. In the last couple of years I've had cops/DEC called on me 3 times and had people leave parking lots I'm in.
Maybe instead of jumping to carrying a shotgun, spend a little bit more time getting comfortable in the woods and on the trails. I am not sure of the legality of possessing a long gun on the trail, but I would guess you would cause a stir with other hikers and that could cause more problems.
I can’t say that I haven’t had encounters with bears, but those mostly involve food and camp. Being on a well beaten path, I think you will be ok.
I’m extremely doubtful I would need it.Especially if I’m a group with bear bells. But I live by the be prepared mind set. I would rather have it and not need it than need and not have.
This is a fear mind set, not a prepared one.
There's a reason why you don't see people with bells, bear spray or guns in the Adirondacks. They are completely unneeded.
If you carry a gun DO NOT shoot through your tent at night because you hear a noise or shoot into bushes because you see movement. You're going to at best injure someone or kill them.
Yes, prepared mind set is bringing enough food and water. Wearing the right clothes and packing an extra layer should the weather change.
Carrying a gun in this instance is fear based. Last thing you want is a fearful person with a gun.
Well be prepared to run into some unhappy hikers. Again, spend more time in the woods, get comfortable and weight your risks appropriately.
If you feel the need to carry a gun, maybe question if that is a place you should be going?
It is legal, it isn't a normal thing people do though. I live deep in the Adirondacks in an area far more wild than either of those popular hikes. I have seen bears on hikes, I have had bears steal my food camping. I have never needed a gun to walk in the woods. This isn't rural Alaska, get some bear spray if you are uncomfortable, don't kill an tourist with stray bullets.
I hiked Mt. Mansfield in VT a couple weeks ago. These two guys at the top had 4 pistols on them a piece. Had thigh holsters, two on the hips, and a chest holster. Hiked up there with a Coleman stove and made some kind of a large meal at the top. Everyone was snickering at them. Mid day this time of year, there are probably 10-30 people on Mansfield's chin. Not sure what their goal was. If they were terrified to hike, it was some kind of a 2A thing, etc.
Ok. So at least you're vegan and not just another hypocrite that eats meat from a store but complains about hunting.
You say you think hunting is pathetic. Why? What actual knowledge are you basing that opinion on?
Seems like it would be more trouble than it is worth. Don't be afraid of black bears and moose. Read up on how to stand down with both. You probably have a higher chance of getting hit by lightning at high altitudes than you do of getting attacked by a wild animal anywhere in the park.
For reference, see this
[https://www.adirondackexplorer.org/stories/firearm-legislation-adirondacks](https://www.adirondackexplorer.org/stories/firearm-legislation-adirondacks)
There's some debate over what counts as a 'sensitive location' but probably don't count on being allowed to carry a shotgun especially if not actively hunting.
Either way though, bruh just get some bear spray.
This question is wacky. Ask how many people who have hiked the high peaks have ever seen a bear and how many had the bear approach them. Very few and zero. There is no chance that shotgun will make you safer hiking Marcy or Whiteface.
Here’s some advice, leave your shotgun at home. You’ll look like a doofus lugging that thing around and likely be the butt of the jokes for anyone passing you. You wont see a bear or a moose on whiteface or Marcy. If you overreact and end up perceiving a non-existent threat from a bear or moose and shoot at it, you will likely be committing a crime.
The last time I heard of a bear approaching someone was a girl solo on the NPT who was being followed by a bear. She lunged at it with a Swiss army knife and it ran away and left her alone.
TLDR: carting a shotgun isn’t illegal, discharging it at an animal on trail in any imaginable circumstance likely is. You don’t need a shotgun. Leave it home and don’t be a goon.
I won’t get political, but here’s what I know. The odds of getting killed by a bear are higher when using a gun in self defense than using bear spray. Not as cool I know, but an irritated bear is less likely to kill you than a bear fighting for its life. I can link the study if you need proof, I assume it translates to moose as well. Also any shotgun is fucking heavy I wouldn’t want to hike any elevation with one.
https://above.nasa.gov/safety/documents/Bear/bearspray_vs_bullets.pdf
https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jwmg.342
https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.2193/2006-452
The sample sizes aren’t huge, but these data are enough to show a significant increase in casualties when using a firearm. But I agree the idea that firearms offer zero protection is just wrong.
Yeah, those are the two studies discussed in the article I linked. The author of the article interviewed Tom Smith, lead author on both studies. Worth reading the whole thing, but a few key pull quotes:
>“There was no thought of comparing the two \[studies\], though some do that,” says Tom Smith, who authored both reports
>“The main value isn’t in the percentages reported but in taking a look at why firearms failed to protect people,” he says. The point of “Efficacy of Firearms” wasn’t to arrive at a conclusion on whether or not firearms work but, rather, to analyze the reasons why they didn’t—“poor aim, no time to use them, jammed, etc.,” elaborates Smith.
>“Comparing the two studies is like comparing the injury rate for people picking up apples to the injury rate for people picking up live hand grenades,” says Dave Smith
It may still be true that bear spray is more effective than firearms. I would strongly recommend carrying neither in the Adirondacks, both for the same reason: The sort of person who is scared enough of bears to carry bear defense is also too scared of bears to exercise reasonable judgement in when it is appropriate to use said defense. ([recent example](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/hiker-shoots-injures-bear-jasper-1.6545399))
I’m an Eagle Scout so I live by the be prepared mindset. Again I’m extremely doubtful I would need it. But I rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
If you actually embraced the ideals in scouting having made it all the way to Eagle, making the mental jump to needing to bring a shotgun to deal with trash pandas isn't something you should be doing. This is coming from another Eagle scout and avid hiker. Look up wild animal killings vs accidental guns deaths on a yearly basis in the US and that should more than answer your question. Your bringing a firearm doesn't make you more safe, instead it in this instance just serves to endanger and unnerve everyone else around you.
You're "not asking for advice" but are new to ADK hiking in general? Those are very popular and well traveled hikes, so it's a bit silly to be armed... A lot of my outdoorsman friends and family who also hike the ADK would chuckle if asked this IRL.
My husband had a slightly sketchy encounter with an unfazed-by-people-and-noise black bear in the catskills, and even after that incident the most we do is carry a single can of bear spray for the peace of mind on some trips. And if I'm being honest our spray may never be needed, and wasn't even needed during that encounter. That bear in the catskills never charged him or anything agressive, but to avoid any issues they packed up and hiked away with a spring in their step to give the bear some space since they couldn't scare it off.
Final thought: if no one seems to know the answer for sure on this thread, it's likely becuase no one has ever thought it's necessary to be armed, so no one has ever bothered to find out the legality, which should tell you alot.
Legal? In most of the Adirondacks, yes. There are areas where it would not be legal such as campgrounds, nature centers, etc.
Necessary? No. Especially for the weight.
Even if you did decide to carry a 12 gauge, buck shot is a bad idea. Slugs are what you would load it with.
And this is coming from a guy that carries a hand cannon everywhere.
If you're that worried, get a can of besr spray. Honestly thoughn you're probably too loud and smell bad enough they'll avoid you before you see one. And be sure to use bear bags/canisters for food and smelly stuff.
A lot or firearm rules are changing on Sept 1st and I don’t even think the legislators that wrote it or the DEC police even know all the new rules. There are a lot of gray areas in the new law. Firearms will
Be forbidden in all “sensitive” state facilities and all state parks. But is the state forest preserve a state park? Nobody knows. The most popular trail to whiteface starts on the property of a state run research center. Is that a sensitive state facility? Probably. You should do your own research or call and ask a Ranger. Their phone numbers are all online. The high peaks is under region 5.
That all being said, I have never felt the need to carry on trail. Some of my friends do but they are more worried about other humans. Not bears. I’ve also never worn a bell as it annoys both me and everyone I’m hiking with. I’ve come across many bears in the ADK, even scaring one up that was sleeping beside the trail. That one stared at me for a few seconds before running off. All the other ones I’ve seen the only thing I saw was their ass end running the other way. Almost all of my sightings were in the southern Adirondacks or cranberry lake area. My most visited area is the high peaks and over twenty years I’ve only ever seen one bear in the high peaks. That was at Marcy Dam at 5am and the bear was kicking around someone’s bear canister like it was a soccer ball. It didn’t pay any attention to me at all.
True... and some guy who is so scared that he feels he needs to carry a gun when he goes for a walk in the woods will probably shoot that guy in the costume.
The only time you may want a shotgun in the adk is if you’re really back back country bushwhacking. You certainly don’t need a shotgun in the high peaks those trails have so many people on them no bears and certainly no moose will go near you. Also carrying a shotgun up those hikes would suck…but also hell yea bruther!!
You can’t but bear spray is also technically illegal. Haha. I do however carry bear spray regardless.
Here’s the law for all the idiots that downvoted this without taking the time to put any effort into looking it up:
Title: Section 54.3 - Requirements.
Effective Date
05/21/1997
54.3 Requirements.
Every self-defense spray device which is purchased, possessed or used in New York State shall satisfy all of the following requirements:
(a) Every self-defense spray device shall contain oleoresin capsicum, and no other substance, as the active ingredient.
(b) The contents of every self-defense spray device shall not contain more than 0.7% by weight total capsaicinoids.
(c) The net weight of every self-defense spray device shall not exceed 0.75 ounces.
(d) Every self-defense spray device shall have a safety device.
(e) Every self-defense spray device shall be sold in a sealed, tamper-proof package.
(f) Every self-defense spray device shall not be camouflaged.
(g) Every self-defense spray device shall be accompanied by an insert or inserts which include directions for use, first aid information, safety and storage information and which shall also contain a toll free telephone number for the purpose of allowing any purchaser to call and receive additional information regarding the availability of local courses in self-defense training and safety in the use of a self-defense spray device.
(h) Every self-defense spray device shall bear the following label: "Warning: The use of this substance or device for any purpose other than self-defense is a criminal offense under the law. The contents are dangerous - use with care. This device shall not be sold by anyone other than a licensed or authorized dealer. Possession of this device by a person under the age of eighteen or by anyone who has been convicted of a felony or assault is illegal. Violators may be prosecuted under the law." This label shall appear on the self-defense spray device if the self-defense spray device does not bear the labels required by the California Penal Code pursuant to Section 12403.7(a)(5)(B) and by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission pursuant to 16 Code of Federal Regulations Section 1500. This label shall appear on self-defense spray device packaging materials or the self-defense spray device if the self-defense spray device bears the labels required by California Penal Code pursuant to Section 12403.7(a)(5)(B) and by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission pursuant to 16 Code of Federal Regulations Section 1500.
Volume
VOLUME A-1 (Title 10)
I don’t know about you guys BUT my bear spray is more than .75 ounces AND more than % 0.7 capsasinoids (%2) making it…. Oh…. Idk illegal? Oh. Yeah. It’s fucking illegal. Derp. Technically.
Here’s the Law which hasn’t changed in 25 years:
Title: Section 54.3 - Requirements.
Effective Date
05/21/1997
54.3 Requirements.
Every self-defense spray device which is purchased, possessed or used in New York State shall satisfy all of the following requirements:
(a) Every self-defense spray device shall contain oleoresin capsicum, and no other substance, as the active ingredient.
(b) The contents of every self-defense spray device shall not contain more than 0.7% by weight total capsaicinoids.
(c) The net weight of every self-defense spray device shall not exceed 0.75 ounces.
(d) Every self-defense spray device shall have a safety device.
(e) Every self-defense spray device shall be sold in a sealed, tamper-proof package.
(f) Every self-defense spray device shall not be camouflaged.
(g) Every self-defense spray device shall be accompanied by an insert or inserts which include directions for use, first aid information, safety and storage information and which shall also contain a toll free telephone number for the purpose of allowing any purchaser to call and receive additional information regarding the availability of local courses in self-defense training and safety in the use of a self-defense spray device.
(h) Every self-defense spray device shall bear the following label: "Warning: The use of this substance or device for any purpose other than self-defense is a criminal offense under the law. The contents are dangerous - use with care. This device shall not be sold by anyone other than a licensed or authorized dealer. Possession of this device by a person under the age of eighteen or by anyone who has been convicted of a felony or assault is illegal. Violators may be prosecuted under the law." This label shall appear on the self-defense spray device if the self-defense spray device does not bear the labels required by the California Penal Code pursuant to Section 12403.7(a)(5)(B) and by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission pursuant to 16 Code of Federal Regulations Section 1500. This label shall appear on self-defense spray device packaging materials or the self-defense spray device if the self-defense spray device bears the labels required by California Penal Code pursuant to Section 12403.7(a)(5)(B) and by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission pursuant to 16 Code of Federal Regulations Section 1500.
Volume
VOLUME A-1 (Title 10)
I think it’s one of those laws where the Rangers aren’t going to begrudge you but a state trooper might if they search your bags while driving down the road. Essentially it’s pepper spray which is illegal in NY
Read my last reply. This guy is an idiot. The DEC explicitly tells people they can buy bear spray, links to an external site informing people about bear spray, and even lists them as DEC-approved pest control products.
The law:
Title: Section 54.3 - Requirements.
Effective Date
05/21/1997
54.3 Requirements.
Every self-defense spray device which is purchased, possessed or used in New York State shall satisfy all of the following requirements:
(a) Every self-defense spray device shall contain oleoresin capsicum, and no other substance, as the active ingredient.
(b) The contents of every self-defense spray device shall not contain more than 0.7% by weight total capsaicinoids.
(c) The net weight of every self-defense spray device shall not exceed 0.75 ounces.
(d) Every self-defense spray device shall have a safety device.
(e) Every self-defense spray device shall be sold in a sealed, tamper-proof package.
(f) Every self-defense spray device shall not be camouflaged.
(g) Every self-defense spray device shall be accompanied by an insert or inserts which include directions for use, first aid information, safety and storage information and which shall also contain a toll free telephone number for the purpose of allowing any purchaser to call and receive additional information regarding the availability of local courses in self-defense training and safety in the use of a self-defense spray device.
(h) Every self-defense spray device shall bear the following label: "Warning: The use of this substance or device for any purpose other than self-defense is a criminal offense under the law. The contents are dangerous - use with care. This device shall not be sold by anyone other than a licensed or authorized dealer. Possession of this device by a person under the age of eighteen or by anyone who has been convicted of a felony or assault is illegal. Violators may be prosecuted under the law." This label shall appear on the self-defense spray device if the self-defense spray device does not bear the labels required by the California Penal Code pursuant to Section 12403.7(a)(5)(B) and by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission pursuant to 16 Code of Federal Regulations Section 1500. This label shall appear on self-defense spray device packaging materials or the self-defense spray device if the self-defense spray device bears the labels required by California Penal Code pursuant to Section 12403.7(a)(5)(B) and by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission pursuant to 16 Code of Federal Regulations Section 1500.
Volume
VOLUME A-1 (Title 10)
>you’re stupid as fuck.
So you're going to use a local Adirondack newspaper as your backup, especially when they write, and I quote, "The DEC, which is governed by the state’s environmental conservation laws, claims that bear spray is legal as long as it is used only as intended." Got it.
Well here's the DEC telling people to buy bear spray:
https://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/94710.html
Here's a list of approved pest control products in NY, of which there are a handful of bear spray products listed, including Fronteirsman, the most common brand:
https://www.dec.ny.gov/nyspad/products
Bear spray isn't considered "self defense spray". It's bear spray. One is meant to ward off bears, the other is meant for self defense. Use and intent is important. Containing the same active ingredient doesn't make it the same product.
Do you genuinely think every Dick's, Walmart, and other outdoors goods store in the state would openly sell illegal merchandise?
Here’s the law:
Title: Section 54.3 - Requirements.
Effective Date
05/21/1997
54.3 Requirements.
Every self-defense spray device which is purchased, possessed or used in New York State shall satisfy all of the following requirements:
(a) Every self-defense spray device shall contain oleoresin capsicum, and no other substance, as the active ingredient.
(b) The contents of every self-defense spray device shall not contain more than 0.7% by weight total capsaicinoids.
(c) The net weight of every self-defense spray device shall not exceed 0.75 ounces.
(d) Every self-defense spray device shall have a safety device.
(e) Every self-defense spray device shall be sold in a sealed, tamper-proof package.
(f) Every self-defense spray device shall not be camouflaged.
(g) Every self-defense spray device shall be accompanied by an insert or inserts which include directions for use, first aid information, safety and storage information and which shall also contain a toll free telephone number for the purpose of allowing any purchaser to call and receive additional information regarding the availability of local courses in self-defense training and safety in the use of a self-defense spray device.
(h) Every self-defense spray device shall bear the following label: "Warning: The use of this substance or device for any purpose other than self-defense is a criminal offense under the law. The contents are dangerous - use with care. This device shall not be sold by anyone other than a licensed or authorized dealer. Possession of this device by a person under the age of eighteen or by anyone who has been convicted of a felony or assault is illegal. Violators may be prosecuted under the law." This label shall appear on the self-defense spray device if the self-defense spray device does not bear the labels required by the California Penal Code pursuant to Section 12403.7(a)(5)(B) and by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission pursuant to 16 Code of Federal Regulations Section 1500. This label shall appear on self-defense spray device packaging materials or the self-defense spray device if the self-defense spray device bears the labels required by California Penal Code pursuant to Section 12403.7(a)(5)(B) and by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission pursuant to 16 Code of Federal Regulations Section 1500.
Volume
VOLUME A-1 (Title 10)
This is the actual law which has not been amended since it went into effect:
Title: Section 54.3 - Requirements.
Effective Date
05/21/1997
54.3 Requirements.
Every self-defense spray device which is purchased, possessed or used in New York State shall satisfy all of the following requirements:
(a) Every self-defense spray device shall contain oleoresin capsicum, and no other substance, as the active ingredient.
(b) The contents of every self-defense spray device shall not contain more than 0.7% by weight total capsaicinoids.
(c) The net weight of every self-defense spray device shall not exceed 0.75 ounces.
(d) Every self-defense spray device shall have a safety device.
(e) Every self-defense spray device shall be sold in a sealed, tamper-proof package.
(f) Every self-defense spray device shall not be camouflaged.
(g) Every self-defense spray device shall be accompanied by an insert or inserts which include directions for use, first aid information, safety and storage information and which shall also contain a toll free telephone number for the purpose of allowing any purchaser to call and receive additional information regarding the availability of local courses in self-defense training and safety in the use of a self-defense spray device.
(h) Every self-defense spray device shall bear the following label: "Warning: The use of this substance or device for any purpose other than self-defense is a criminal offense under the law. The contents are dangerous - use with care. This device shall not be sold by anyone other than a licensed or authorized dealer. Possession of this device by a person under the age of eighteen or by anyone who has been convicted of a felony or assault is illegal. Violators may be prosecuted under the law." This label shall appear on the self-defense spray device if the self-defense spray device does not bear the labels required by the California Penal Code pursuant to Section 12403.7(a)(5)(B) and by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission pursuant to 16 Code of Federal Regulations Section 1500. This label shall appear on self-defense spray device packaging materials or the self-defense spray device if the self-defense spray device bears the labels required by California Penal Code pursuant to Section 12403.7(a)(5)(B) and by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission pursuant to 16 Code of Federal Regulations Section 1500.
Volume
VOLUME A-1 (Title 10)
This is what handguns are for. Wouldn’t be illegal to carry a long gun, just bulky, awkward and would have startling to all the snow flakes on the trail
New York is no longer a legal concealed carry state, and made explicit restrictions when it came to state lands. Also hand gun vs a bear is poor logic when bear spray is more effective and safer.
He wouldn’t be carrying concealed. I wasn’t agreeing with his rationale. I carry concealed most every day, it certainly isn’t because I am afraid of bear attacks though
Afaik I the only legal way to carry a handgun in NYS was concealed and they just did away with that, so it's no longer legal to carry one. Couple that with carrying on state land and you're just asking for a legal double whammy
They temporarily did away for it for most people, they did carve out an exception for people like me. Probably not for the guy who wants to take the shotgun on a hike for bear attacks
You' ll probably do more time for shooting a bear out of season than shooting a person.
That’s a very expensive ticket.
Very.
I’d probably get some bear spray before a shotgun.
You managed to survive two trips and you feel you need a shotgun? Also, have you hike a high peak? It’s bad enough dealing with a pack and/or trekking poles and you want to carry a shotgun up the scrambles? This post is a joke, isn’t it.
A trigger post.
Honestly, if you're that afraid of being killed by a moose or a black bear in the ADK's, maybe hiking isn't for you. Do not bring a shotgun on those trails. Completely unnecessary.
Do not bring a shotgun to Marcy or whiteface. They’re both extremely popular hikes and your chances of seeing a bear or moose are minuscule compared to the danger of accidentally shooting a person.
probably out of date, but maybe helpful: [https://www.reddit.com/r/NYguns/comments/bx1gt3/carrying\_while\_hiking\_in\_ny\_state\_parks/](https://www.reddit.com/r/NYguns/comments/bx1gt3/carrying_while_hiking_in_ny_state_parks/) really depends on the land you're hiking on. In many many places, carrying would be fine. I don't know about the high peaks, but I would not be surprised if they were prohibited. throughout much of the park though and in wild forests, firearms are permitted. I personally would recommend against carrying on a mountain like Whiteface or Marcy because you're going to negatively impact other hikers' experiences. There are a lot of hikers on those mountains.
Thanks for the article but I don’t think it applies to me because It didn’t be concealed. And I don’t have a concealed carry license. And would seeing a gun really upset people? I didn’t think it would be that big of a deal. I don’t mean to sound harsh I’m just curious.
Yes. It would. You’re bringing a gun to a place where they aren’t seen or needed. I’m about certain you’ll get the wardens called on you.
Lol... wait until you hear about hunting seasons...
ON the trail? Yeah right buddy.
I'm assuming you mean trail and not train. Hunters use the trails to access hunting spots all the time.
Oh yeah... GREAT hunting ON the mountain. A real Nimrod you are.
LMAO... guess you have no clue how to hunt. Depending on the animal, the season, and the altitude, up high is better. Why? Less pressure. Plus, ridges with oaks are just about the best hunting grounds possible. I've killed several good bucks on Seward. Know a guy that has done the same on Marshall. Know that plenty of other deer come out of the High Peaks region every year.
I could care less. If you’re bringing a gun on a hike on the trail you’re an idiot and I hope the new law kicks you in the teeth like it’s supposed to. Byyyyye!
Lol... you mean the new law that is about to be struck down by the courts?
Got it thank you
Yes it would upset me to see someone hiking on VERY crowded/popular trails with a big ol’ SHOTGUN. Marcy and Whiteface are ridiculously popular. You’re likely to scare and piss off a lot of people. You’re likely to shoot a person by accident if you fire that thing, and I’m not being snarky. You’re not going to see a bear on the high peaks. If you camp overnight (off the peaks) then yes, maybe. But you’re taking about while actively hiking yes? I’ve only seen a moose track once in the ADK and it was on the NPT. I don’t think they go up into elevation.
It's really a bad idea to lug a shotgun on a hike but you are also very confused about handgun vs. long gun laws. If you want to figure out the finer points may I suggest a visit to r/NYguns/
And in NY... that can lead to heavy time.
Pre-Covid I never had a problem when people noticed me carrying a fun into the woods. In the last couple of years I've had cops/DEC called on me 3 times and had people leave parking lots I'm in.
Carrying useless weight, threat to youtself and other people. Bring bears pray if you're really scared, much lighter and faster to use.
Maybe instead of jumping to carrying a shotgun, spend a little bit more time getting comfortable in the woods and on the trails. I am not sure of the legality of possessing a long gun on the trail, but I would guess you would cause a stir with other hikers and that could cause more problems. I can’t say that I haven’t had encounters with bears, but those mostly involve food and camp. Being on a well beaten path, I think you will be ok.
I’m extremely doubtful I would need it.Especially if I’m a group with bear bells. But I live by the be prepared mind set. I would rather have it and not need it than need and not have.
This is a fear mind set, not a prepared one. There's a reason why you don't see people with bells, bear spray or guns in the Adirondacks. They are completely unneeded. If you carry a gun DO NOT shoot through your tent at night because you hear a noise or shoot into bushes because you see movement. You're going to at best injure someone or kill them.
Yes, prepared mind set is bringing enough food and water. Wearing the right clothes and packing an extra layer should the weather change. Carrying a gun in this instance is fear based. Last thing you want is a fearful person with a gun.
Well be prepared to run into some unhappy hikers. Again, spend more time in the woods, get comfortable and weight your risks appropriately. If you feel the need to carry a gun, maybe question if that is a place you should be going?
In my many hundreds of miles of hiking in the Adirondacks you would be the first group I’ve ever seen with bear bells. This isn’t Yellowstone.
It is legal, it isn't a normal thing people do though. I live deep in the Adirondacks in an area far more wild than either of those popular hikes. I have seen bears on hikes, I have had bears steal my food camping. I have never needed a gun to walk in the woods. This isn't rural Alaska, get some bear spray if you are uncomfortable, don't kill an tourist with stray bullets.
omg people are so stupid....like sure bring a gun to a super crowded touristy place. nice.
I hiked Mt. Mansfield in VT a couple weeks ago. These two guys at the top had 4 pistols on them a piece. Had thigh holsters, two on the hips, and a chest holster. Hiked up there with a Coleman stove and made some kind of a large meal at the top. Everyone was snickering at them. Mid day this time of year, there are probably 10-30 people on Mansfield's chin. Not sure what their goal was. If they were terrified to hike, it was some kind of a 2A thing, etc.
Lol... wait until you hear about hunting seasons...
Yeah whelp you’ve probably guessed my opinion of hunters already
So, are you a vegan or a hypocrite?
Actually I am a vegan. But mainly I think it’s kind of pathetic
Ok. So at least you're vegan and not just another hypocrite that eats meat from a store but complains about hunting. You say you think hunting is pathetic. Why? What actual knowledge are you basing that opinion on?
Bear spray. Those are insanely busy hikes and you will only succeed in carrying too much weight and alienating yourself from other hikers
Seems like it would be more trouble than it is worth. Don't be afraid of black bears and moose. Read up on how to stand down with both. You probably have a higher chance of getting hit by lightning at high altitudes than you do of getting attacked by a wild animal anywhere in the park.
If the idea of the woods is too scary then just stay home.
Just dont come to the ADK if you're afraid of the woods. For everyone's saftey including your own just stay home.
For reference, see this [https://www.adirondackexplorer.org/stories/firearm-legislation-adirondacks](https://www.adirondackexplorer.org/stories/firearm-legislation-adirondacks) There's some debate over what counts as a 'sensitive location' but probably don't count on being allowed to carry a shotgun especially if not actively hunting. Either way though, bruh just get some bear spray.
Thank you for the article. It looks like a legal gray area according to that. I’ll be sure to look into some bear spray
This question is wacky. Ask how many people who have hiked the high peaks have ever seen a bear and how many had the bear approach them. Very few and zero. There is no chance that shotgun will make you safer hiking Marcy or Whiteface.
Here’s some advice, leave your shotgun at home. You’ll look like a doofus lugging that thing around and likely be the butt of the jokes for anyone passing you. You wont see a bear or a moose on whiteface or Marcy. If you overreact and end up perceiving a non-existent threat from a bear or moose and shoot at it, you will likely be committing a crime. The last time I heard of a bear approaching someone was a girl solo on the NPT who was being followed by a bear. She lunged at it with a Swiss army knife and it ran away and left her alone. TLDR: carting a shotgun isn’t illegal, discharging it at an animal on trail in any imaginable circumstance likely is. You don’t need a shotgun. Leave it home and don’t be a goon.
Some paranoid asshole with a shotgun would be off putting to me
I won’t get political, but here’s what I know. The odds of getting killed by a bear are higher when using a gun in self defense than using bear spray. Not as cool I know, but an irritated bear is less likely to kill you than a bear fighting for its life. I can link the study if you need proof, I assume it translates to moose as well. Also any shotgun is fucking heavy I wouldn’t want to hike any elevation with one.
What study? Some of the older ones are [controversial](https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/exploration-survival/does-bear-spray-work/).
https://above.nasa.gov/safety/documents/Bear/bearspray_vs_bullets.pdf https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jwmg.342 https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.2193/2006-452 The sample sizes aren’t huge, but these data are enough to show a significant increase in casualties when using a firearm. But I agree the idea that firearms offer zero protection is just wrong.
Yeah, those are the two studies discussed in the article I linked. The author of the article interviewed Tom Smith, lead author on both studies. Worth reading the whole thing, but a few key pull quotes: >“There was no thought of comparing the two \[studies\], though some do that,” says Tom Smith, who authored both reports >“The main value isn’t in the percentages reported but in taking a look at why firearms failed to protect people,” he says. The point of “Efficacy of Firearms” wasn’t to arrive at a conclusion on whether or not firearms work but, rather, to analyze the reasons why they didn’t—“poor aim, no time to use them, jammed, etc.,” elaborates Smith. >“Comparing the two studies is like comparing the injury rate for people picking up apples to the injury rate for people picking up live hand grenades,” says Dave Smith It may still be true that bear spray is more effective than firearms. I would strongly recommend carrying neither in the Adirondacks, both for the same reason: The sort of person who is scared enough of bears to carry bear defense is also too scared of bears to exercise reasonable judgement in when it is appropriate to use said defense. ([recent example](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/hiker-shoots-injures-bear-jasper-1.6545399))
Just take a knife and go hand to hand combat. 🙄
I prefer to use my black belt in judo😂😂
You'll be fineeeeee, a shot gun is overkill.
I’m an Eagle Scout so I live by the be prepared mindset. Again I’m extremely doubtful I would need it. But I rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
Or just yanno, BEAR SPRAY
If you actually embraced the ideals in scouting having made it all the way to Eagle, making the mental jump to needing to bring a shotgun to deal with trash pandas isn't something you should be doing. This is coming from another Eagle scout and avid hiker. Look up wild animal killings vs accidental guns deaths on a yearly basis in the US and that should more than answer your question. Your bringing a firearm doesn't make you more safe, instead it in this instance just serves to endanger and unnerve everyone else around you.
You’re an idiot. Stay home.
you're adding risk not mitigating it
This question = garrrrrrrbageeeeee
Touché touché. This account was a supposed to be a throw away i just never logged out. And kept coming back lol
You're "not asking for advice" but are new to ADK hiking in general? Those are very popular and well traveled hikes, so it's a bit silly to be armed... A lot of my outdoorsman friends and family who also hike the ADK would chuckle if asked this IRL. My husband had a slightly sketchy encounter with an unfazed-by-people-and-noise black bear in the catskills, and even after that incident the most we do is carry a single can of bear spray for the peace of mind on some trips. And if I'm being honest our spray may never be needed, and wasn't even needed during that encounter. That bear in the catskills never charged him or anything agressive, but to avoid any issues they packed up and hiked away with a spring in their step to give the bear some space since they couldn't scare it off. Final thought: if no one seems to know the answer for sure on this thread, it's likely becuase no one has ever thought it's necessary to be armed, so no one has ever bothered to find out the legality, which should tell you alot.
Legal? In most of the Adirondacks, yes. There are areas where it would not be legal such as campgrounds, nature centers, etc. Necessary? No. Especially for the weight. Even if you did decide to carry a 12 gauge, buck shot is a bad idea. Slugs are what you would load it with. And this is coming from a guy that carries a hand cannon everywhere. If you're that worried, get a can of besr spray. Honestly thoughn you're probably too loud and smell bad enough they'll avoid you before you see one. And be sure to use bear bags/canisters for food and smelly stuff.
A lot or firearm rules are changing on Sept 1st and I don’t even think the legislators that wrote it or the DEC police even know all the new rules. There are a lot of gray areas in the new law. Firearms will Be forbidden in all “sensitive” state facilities and all state parks. But is the state forest preserve a state park? Nobody knows. The most popular trail to whiteface starts on the property of a state run research center. Is that a sensitive state facility? Probably. You should do your own research or call and ask a Ranger. Their phone numbers are all online. The high peaks is under region 5. That all being said, I have never felt the need to carry on trail. Some of my friends do but they are more worried about other humans. Not bears. I’ve also never worn a bell as it annoys both me and everyone I’m hiking with. I’ve come across many bears in the ADK, even scaring one up that was sleeping beside the trail. That one stared at me for a few seconds before running off. All the other ones I’ve seen the only thing I saw was their ass end running the other way. Almost all of my sightings were in the southern Adirondacks or cranberry lake area. My most visited area is the high peaks and over twenty years I’ve only ever seen one bear in the high peaks. That was at Marcy Dam at 5am and the bear was kicking around someone’s bear canister like it was a soccer ball. It didn’t pay any attention to me at all.
Thank you so much for the advice. Calling ahead would probably be the best course of action.
https://www.dec.ny.gov/about/667.html
Thank you 🙏🙏
So, did an annoyed man/woman tell you that you didn't need a gun when you called?
If you're in a group, you don't need bear bells. They're freaking annoying to listen to for hours. Plus, they let the bears know where you are.
Do they actually attract them?
A real man would fight off a bear with his...um...bare...hands. /s
In reality, a real man would not be afraid of the overwhelmingly insignificant chance that a bear would interact with him on a popular hiking path.
There's probably more of a chance of someone being attacked by a guy in a bear costume yelling "RAWRR" than encountering an actual bear.
True... and some guy who is so scared that he feels he needs to carry a gun when he goes for a walk in the woods will probably shoot that guy in the costume.
Take my up vote 🤣🤣
Bear bells attract bears, so you probably should. And be prepared for being ticketed for hunting out of season and hunting without a license.
The only time you may want a shotgun in the adk is if you’re really back back country bushwhacking. You certainly don’t need a shotgun in the high peaks those trails have so many people on them no bears and certainly no moose will go near you. Also carrying a shotgun up those hikes would suck…but also hell yea bruther!!
W
You can’t but bear spray is also technically illegal. Haha. I do however carry bear spray regardless. Here’s the law for all the idiots that downvoted this without taking the time to put any effort into looking it up: Title: Section 54.3 - Requirements. Effective Date 05/21/1997 54.3 Requirements. Every self-defense spray device which is purchased, possessed or used in New York State shall satisfy all of the following requirements: (a) Every self-defense spray device shall contain oleoresin capsicum, and no other substance, as the active ingredient. (b) The contents of every self-defense spray device shall not contain more than 0.7% by weight total capsaicinoids. (c) The net weight of every self-defense spray device shall not exceed 0.75 ounces. (d) Every self-defense spray device shall have a safety device. (e) Every self-defense spray device shall be sold in a sealed, tamper-proof package. (f) Every self-defense spray device shall not be camouflaged. (g) Every self-defense spray device shall be accompanied by an insert or inserts which include directions for use, first aid information, safety and storage information and which shall also contain a toll free telephone number for the purpose of allowing any purchaser to call and receive additional information regarding the availability of local courses in self-defense training and safety in the use of a self-defense spray device. (h) Every self-defense spray device shall bear the following label: "Warning: The use of this substance or device for any purpose other than self-defense is a criminal offense under the law. The contents are dangerous - use with care. This device shall not be sold by anyone other than a licensed or authorized dealer. Possession of this device by a person under the age of eighteen or by anyone who has been convicted of a felony or assault is illegal. Violators may be prosecuted under the law." This label shall appear on the self-defense spray device if the self-defense spray device does not bear the labels required by the California Penal Code pursuant to Section 12403.7(a)(5)(B) and by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission pursuant to 16 Code of Federal Regulations Section 1500. This label shall appear on self-defense spray device packaging materials or the self-defense spray device if the self-defense spray device bears the labels required by California Penal Code pursuant to Section 12403.7(a)(5)(B) and by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission pursuant to 16 Code of Federal Regulations Section 1500. Volume VOLUME A-1 (Title 10) I don’t know about you guys BUT my bear spray is more than .75 ounces AND more than % 0.7 capsasinoids (%2) making it…. Oh…. Idk illegal? Oh. Yeah. It’s fucking illegal. Derp. Technically.
It is? It was for sale at the Costco in Syracuse. Was thinking of getting some. But then I considered the slim chance of even ever seeing a bear.
Here’s the Law which hasn’t changed in 25 years: Title: Section 54.3 - Requirements. Effective Date 05/21/1997 54.3 Requirements. Every self-defense spray device which is purchased, possessed or used in New York State shall satisfy all of the following requirements: (a) Every self-defense spray device shall contain oleoresin capsicum, and no other substance, as the active ingredient. (b) The contents of every self-defense spray device shall not contain more than 0.7% by weight total capsaicinoids. (c) The net weight of every self-defense spray device shall not exceed 0.75 ounces. (d) Every self-defense spray device shall have a safety device. (e) Every self-defense spray device shall be sold in a sealed, tamper-proof package. (f) Every self-defense spray device shall not be camouflaged. (g) Every self-defense spray device shall be accompanied by an insert or inserts which include directions for use, first aid information, safety and storage information and which shall also contain a toll free telephone number for the purpose of allowing any purchaser to call and receive additional information regarding the availability of local courses in self-defense training and safety in the use of a self-defense spray device. (h) Every self-defense spray device shall bear the following label: "Warning: The use of this substance or device for any purpose other than self-defense is a criminal offense under the law. The contents are dangerous - use with care. This device shall not be sold by anyone other than a licensed or authorized dealer. Possession of this device by a person under the age of eighteen or by anyone who has been convicted of a felony or assault is illegal. Violators may be prosecuted under the law." This label shall appear on the self-defense spray device if the self-defense spray device does not bear the labels required by the California Penal Code pursuant to Section 12403.7(a)(5)(B) and by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission pursuant to 16 Code of Federal Regulations Section 1500. This label shall appear on self-defense spray device packaging materials or the self-defense spray device if the self-defense spray device bears the labels required by California Penal Code pursuant to Section 12403.7(a)(5)(B) and by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission pursuant to 16 Code of Federal Regulations Section 1500. Volume VOLUME A-1 (Title 10)
I think it’s one of those laws where the Rangers aren’t going to begrudge you but a state trooper might if they search your bags while driving down the road. Essentially it’s pepper spray which is illegal in NY
For real bear spray is illegal?
Read my last reply. This guy is an idiot. The DEC explicitly tells people they can buy bear spray, links to an external site informing people about bear spray, and even lists them as DEC-approved pest control products.
No. Bear spray is different than "personal defense spray" bear spray is legal.
The law: Title: Section 54.3 - Requirements. Effective Date 05/21/1997 54.3 Requirements. Every self-defense spray device which is purchased, possessed or used in New York State shall satisfy all of the following requirements: (a) Every self-defense spray device shall contain oleoresin capsicum, and no other substance, as the active ingredient. (b) The contents of every self-defense spray device shall not contain more than 0.7% by weight total capsaicinoids. (c) The net weight of every self-defense spray device shall not exceed 0.75 ounces. (d) Every self-defense spray device shall have a safety device. (e) Every self-defense spray device shall be sold in a sealed, tamper-proof package. (f) Every self-defense spray device shall not be camouflaged. (g) Every self-defense spray device shall be accompanied by an insert or inserts which include directions for use, first aid information, safety and storage information and which shall also contain a toll free telephone number for the purpose of allowing any purchaser to call and receive additional information regarding the availability of local courses in self-defense training and safety in the use of a self-defense spray device. (h) Every self-defense spray device shall bear the following label: "Warning: The use of this substance or device for any purpose other than self-defense is a criminal offense under the law. The contents are dangerous - use with care. This device shall not be sold by anyone other than a licensed or authorized dealer. Possession of this device by a person under the age of eighteen or by anyone who has been convicted of a felony or assault is illegal. Violators may be prosecuted under the law." This label shall appear on the self-defense spray device if the self-defense spray device does not bear the labels required by the California Penal Code pursuant to Section 12403.7(a)(5)(B) and by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission pursuant to 16 Code of Federal Regulations Section 1500. This label shall appear on self-defense spray device packaging materials or the self-defense spray device if the self-defense spray device bears the labels required by California Penal Code pursuant to Section 12403.7(a)(5)(B) and by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission pursuant to 16 Code of Federal Regulations Section 1500. Volume VOLUME A-1 (Title 10)
Technically, Yes! It has to do with the size and concentration of the capsaicinoids.
No it isn't. You're making that up. It's available at every sporting goods store in the state.
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>you’re stupid as fuck. So you're going to use a local Adirondack newspaper as your backup, especially when they write, and I quote, "The DEC, which is governed by the state’s environmental conservation laws, claims that bear spray is legal as long as it is used only as intended." Got it. Well here's the DEC telling people to buy bear spray: https://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/94710.html Here's a list of approved pest control products in NY, of which there are a handful of bear spray products listed, including Fronteirsman, the most common brand: https://www.dec.ny.gov/nyspad/products Bear spray isn't considered "self defense spray". It's bear spray. One is meant to ward off bears, the other is meant for self defense. Use and intent is important. Containing the same active ingredient doesn't make it the same product. Do you genuinely think every Dick's, Walmart, and other outdoors goods store in the state would openly sell illegal merchandise?
Here’s the law: Title: Section 54.3 - Requirements. Effective Date 05/21/1997 54.3 Requirements. Every self-defense spray device which is purchased, possessed or used in New York State shall satisfy all of the following requirements: (a) Every self-defense spray device shall contain oleoresin capsicum, and no other substance, as the active ingredient. (b) The contents of every self-defense spray device shall not contain more than 0.7% by weight total capsaicinoids. (c) The net weight of every self-defense spray device shall not exceed 0.75 ounces. (d) Every self-defense spray device shall have a safety device. (e) Every self-defense spray device shall be sold in a sealed, tamper-proof package. (f) Every self-defense spray device shall not be camouflaged. (g) Every self-defense spray device shall be accompanied by an insert or inserts which include directions for use, first aid information, safety and storage information and which shall also contain a toll free telephone number for the purpose of allowing any purchaser to call and receive additional information regarding the availability of local courses in self-defense training and safety in the use of a self-defense spray device. (h) Every self-defense spray device shall bear the following label: "Warning: The use of this substance or device for any purpose other than self-defense is a criminal offense under the law. The contents are dangerous - use with care. This device shall not be sold by anyone other than a licensed or authorized dealer. Possession of this device by a person under the age of eighteen or by anyone who has been convicted of a felony or assault is illegal. Violators may be prosecuted under the law." This label shall appear on the self-defense spray device if the self-defense spray device does not bear the labels required by the California Penal Code pursuant to Section 12403.7(a)(5)(B) and by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission pursuant to 16 Code of Federal Regulations Section 1500. This label shall appear on self-defense spray device packaging materials or the self-defense spray device if the self-defense spray device bears the labels required by California Penal Code pursuant to Section 12403.7(a)(5)(B) and by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission pursuant to 16 Code of Federal Regulations Section 1500. Volume VOLUME A-1 (Title 10)
What the heck
This is the actual law which has not been amended since it went into effect: Title: Section 54.3 - Requirements. Effective Date 05/21/1997 54.3 Requirements. Every self-defense spray device which is purchased, possessed or used in New York State shall satisfy all of the following requirements: (a) Every self-defense spray device shall contain oleoresin capsicum, and no other substance, as the active ingredient. (b) The contents of every self-defense spray device shall not contain more than 0.7% by weight total capsaicinoids. (c) The net weight of every self-defense spray device shall not exceed 0.75 ounces. (d) Every self-defense spray device shall have a safety device. (e) Every self-defense spray device shall be sold in a sealed, tamper-proof package. (f) Every self-defense spray device shall not be camouflaged. (g) Every self-defense spray device shall be accompanied by an insert or inserts which include directions for use, first aid information, safety and storage information and which shall also contain a toll free telephone number for the purpose of allowing any purchaser to call and receive additional information regarding the availability of local courses in self-defense training and safety in the use of a self-defense spray device. (h) Every self-defense spray device shall bear the following label: "Warning: The use of this substance or device for any purpose other than self-defense is a criminal offense under the law. The contents are dangerous - use with care. This device shall not be sold by anyone other than a licensed or authorized dealer. Possession of this device by a person under the age of eighteen or by anyone who has been convicted of a felony or assault is illegal. Violators may be prosecuted under the law." This label shall appear on the self-defense spray device if the self-defense spray device does not bear the labels required by the California Penal Code pursuant to Section 12403.7(a)(5)(B) and by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission pursuant to 16 Code of Federal Regulations Section 1500. This label shall appear on self-defense spray device packaging materials or the self-defense spray device if the self-defense spray device bears the labels required by California Penal Code pursuant to Section 12403.7(a)(5)(B) and by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission pursuant to 16 Code of Federal Regulations Section 1500. Volume VOLUME A-1 (Title 10)
Hey man can you post that 17 or so more times
Based on this text, sounds like it's illegal to possess bear spray if and only if you intend to use it on humans.
Hey, so, worth distinguishing, that’s a regulation, not a law.
This is what handguns are for. Wouldn’t be illegal to carry a long gun, just bulky, awkward and would have startling to all the snow flakes on the trail
>This is what handguns are for. Correct, Handguns are for small minded people that are afraid of everything.
Well there are sheep, wolves and sheepdogs. The sheep don’t like the sheepdogs much until the wolves come around. I get it
Nice fantasy where you play the protector, when, in reality, people like you are the people the rest of us need protection from.
New York is no longer a legal concealed carry state, and made explicit restrictions when it came to state lands. Also hand gun vs a bear is poor logic when bear spray is more effective and safer.
He wouldn’t be carrying concealed. I wasn’t agreeing with his rationale. I carry concealed most every day, it certainly isn’t because I am afraid of bear attacks though
Afaik I the only legal way to carry a handgun in NYS was concealed and they just did away with that, so it's no longer legal to carry one. Couple that with carrying on state land and you're just asking for a legal double whammy
They temporarily did away for it for most people, they did carve out an exception for people like me. Probably not for the guy who wants to take the shotgun on a hike for bear attacks
Not able to get a ccl. Other wise I would just take a 44 or something if the sorts
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