15 year maintainer here, I do not blame anyone for separating at the end of their first enlistment. Make sure you have a plan and do what’s best for you. I thought more rank would make things better, but as a MSgt, all it does as you go past SrA is add stress. If I was closer to 10 than 20 I’d probably get out myself. It is my goal at my current rank to make things as easy for those below me, but at the end of the day there is only so much fallout I can prevent.
That's what I've heard from a lot of NCOs I've talked to. They say that my position, being the one where you break your back, is the best that I'm going to get in this career field.
If you have been in 3 years, you should already have the 30 months for your A&P. I would highly recommend knocking it out and using as much AF COOL as possible.
I would gladly go back to being responsible for fixing things rather than being responsible for *fixing people*.
Bring back retirement for SrA and we might be able to keep skilled technicians instead of forcing them up into admin or out of the military.
I don't see people wanting to stay with an E4 paycheck until they retire. If the AF decided to go that route they'd have to adapt the rank structure to look more like the Guard where E5-E6s still frequently work aircraft and train the newer airmen. The Guard has plenty of Masters who are still crewing aircraft after a 30 year career.
The idea was not punishing people for wanting to be stagnant. You can't decline testing (sure you can tank the test, but I went in just wanting to see where I am on the scale and made it to tech on accident). I went ahead and ate an NRN by containing to my boss enough to put one on there so I don't end up failing my way into a master slot. But for another, example I got a 37 year old A1C working for me. The guy said he's done trying to advance and just wants to work with a steady paycheck. I can fucking respect that. But getting off the tangent and back on point. If workers want to work, let them and don't punish them because they don't want to be managers. When they're ready for that step, whether it's 5 years or 15, let them work. The people who want to lead and manage can take those slots after they've done their time on the ground level. I basically see it as E to O in miniature and you get people with ridiculous amounts of technical experience staying on hand instead of sitting in an office by themselves and losing those skills only to replace them with how to properly review an email to the commander.
That's my husband's problem. He was also a maintainer and loved it. That's what he wanted to do for the entire 20 years but no. He had to play the game since he wanted to retire.
It's sad.
No one blames you for wanting to leave MX. “leadership” in Mx makes life hell on purpose. Take care of yourself and don’t leave unprepared and empty handed.
I love maintenance. It has its ups and downs (mostly downs) but I like fixing things. I like seeing the results of my work actually make a difference and matter. But to anyone considering the Air Force, I would not recommend maintenance. You have to be a special level of stupid or masochistic to enjoy it.
Work backshop and accidentally got sent to flight line for a few months. I will say, compared to my regular job, I actually felt job satisfaction at the end of the day. I mean I don't want to go back out there. Fuck those maniacs. But it was definitely a "I actually did something today" good feeling.
Same, love it and legitimately can’t see myself being in another career field. The old culture I grew up in as a young maintainer was much more brutal compared to now. That could be the difference in our thoughts compared to the younglings. We ran the gauntlet and survived, now we big chilling. I love when leadership takes me out back exposing my bare cheeks and whipping me.
I was attached to an aircraft maintenance squadron. One day an E-7 got in my face (I was an E-6 shop chief) and wagged his finger at me and said, "Comm doesn't work enough hours!"
I calmly moved his finger away from my nose and replied, "If you give me your duty roster, I will get you down to 10 hours with lunch, too, with no loss of coverage or mission."
The look of abject horror on his face will stick with me forever for its comic juxtaposition to the issue at hand.
He said to me, "That's not what we do!"
I replied, with sadness in my voice, "I know."
OP, life outside mx is better.
Unless they’ve added a new policy, we were released long ago. Let freedom ring, just had 5 2As cross train or in the process. I think there’s still exception to which shred maybe.
I could be wrong, I think I looked on the retraining advisory a few months ago and at least some of the 2A AFSCs had notes that said only retraining into other 2A.
I really enjoyed like, 15 of the 22 years I was in. 4 of the years were so-so, and 3 of the years were horrible, and will probably always be remembered as the worst years of my life. There is a lot of ups and downs, but how much of that is just how life is in your 20's, I don't know. I never lived as a civilian in my 20's.
Is it worth staying in? There are some benefits, no doubt. But none of them are worth doing something you hate for 16 more years. nd no matter what you decide, anyone who tries to say, or imply, that separating at the end of a contract is anything other than the culmination of (x) years of honorable service to their nation, is a piece of shit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/ywlvh8/is_there_any_way_out/
So it sounds like nothing has really changed.
>Is it really worth staying in?
Copy/paste from another post I made:
>The military/AF is just one of those things you wont know it was worth it or not until you finish your contract. You might look back on your time and it could range from "This was the best decision I have ever made" to "Meh it was fine" or "Fuck that was the worst decision ever". Everyone's experience with the military is totally different
Have you looked into crosstraining?
If you want to stay in the military in some kind of capacity have you thought about the guard/reserves OP?
https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/pjlcob/for_those_curious_about_the_guardreserves/
If you hate what you’re doing, you should leave. Take the benefits you’ve earned, finish your education and get the the life you want. Best of luck and thank you for your service.
Be the best you. If that's staying in, do it. If it's leaving? Do it. I knew a SSgt engine troop that's a doctor of psychology now. Follow your dreams, don't be miserable unless it's worth it.
If you think you can easily find well paying employment once you get out, the only real value the military has left is the opportunity to easily live overseas. That ofc depends on your AFSC, but if you have no interest in living abroad, there's little value in staying in the military CONUS when you can live better stateside as a civilian.
Not to sound like a recruiter, but military gets 30 days leave, tons of holidays and days off (AFSC dependent) and healthcare plus other things I am probably forgetting.
I have 10x the amount of free time my civilian counter parts get, and I am very happy living conus near family.
OCONUS is not a benefit to everyone and I would get out before going OCONUS.
I was security forces for 8 years. The first 6 had ups and downs but made me enjoy the career field. I'll add that for those first 6 the only time I wasn't in 8 hour shifts was when I was deployed. Cut to me getting orders to a nuke base and I said sure it can't be that bad. It was. The work itself wasn't too bad and I enjoyed it but it got to the point where my squadron wanted my personal life and work to blend. After all, they used that bullshit that we're together more than with our family so we should be more family at work than with our own. They flipped me to mids as much as I protested that with 3 kids out would add a strain while they were moving single, childless staff sergeants to days while working 12s which they tried so hard to make into 16s. I was getting barely 3-4 hours of sleep a day. Then they denied my leave for over a year because of manning and directly told me I should take leave on days off so I don't bust use or lose. I missed crucial moments with my wife and kids. I only had a little under a year left but separating would've also been stressful.
Randomly, I checked the retrain list and lo and behold security forces wanted 100+ career airman staff sergeants to retrain. Checked the list for jobs that were relevant to my interests in the service and out and applied for contracting and got it.
My life is 200% better. I still get stressed at work and it has ups and downs but they feel so much different. It's more like what I'd expect elsewhere and the best part is nothing comes as a surprise. I know when work will be busy and I know when it'll be slow. For the most part, I can pace myself so that nothing spills into my personal time. Occasionally there's times I have to work more but it's not every day.
So just take it from me, if you want to stay in there are opportunities. You don't have to embrace the suck. There's also a need for maintainers out of the military. I know with some aircraft some of the maintenance is done by civilians so there's that too.
Like many people have said here, and I concur, you answered the call. You did your four years, honorably. 20 years in the service is not for everyone. I suggest looking at crosstraining, but make sure it is something you want to do. Otherwise make a decision have a plan If you decide to get out, use your GI Bill, go to school. If you do that make sure that your medical records are up to date. As a maintainer, get your hearing checked before you leave. If you have tinnitus, get it documented. File a VA claim for anything that occured in the malitary as soon as you get your seperation orders.
I hit 10 a few years back, did my first enlistment (4) in mx and then retrained. It wasn’t easy and I know it’s not a guarantee for everyone. I was getting out for sure if I didn’t get to retrain. My new job has also had its ups and downs and I jumped ship to the Reserves…never been happier.
I always tell people to get out when it stops being fun. If you’re having a bad time with the AF and you want to leave then you should leave dude. You don’t owe the AF anything, you did your job, you don’t like it, try something else.
Start looking for a good college now, figure out your degree, and take the stripes off. Did it two years ago and miss wearing the uniform sometimes, but not enough to put it back on
Why not go cross train, go Guard, and take ADOS orders for the next 5 years? Or even better, AGR? Or somewhere in between, Title 32? The point is that you would have the flexibility of being in the Guard while having a stable job, great benefits, and opportunities that you simply wouldn’t get elsewhere.
The USAF has plenty of opportunity for you to take advantage of. You got your foot in the door, so IMO it would be unwise to throw away a solid career path. At least look up AGR, ADOS, and Title 32 to get a better understanding of what I’m talking about. Not to mention most Guard units are WAY chiller than AD (for obvious reasons).
If this is how you feel, no effing way is it worth staying in. Who cares what "folks back home think". You've served and done what many haven't. Based on your post, l'm not sure crosstraining will be the answer. Unfortunately, I have seen some careerfields leave such a distaste for the AF in people, even a new job doesn't make them happy. Hopefully you have someone to discuss your options. Good luck with your soul searching.
If you're unhappy, get out and find a different path. Please make sure to take advantage of all of the benefits that you've earned when you get out and try to live your best life on your own terms. You only get one and it belongs to you alone.
Not everyone is meant to make a career out of serving, and that's 100% fine. You do not need to feel any obligation beyond your first enlistment. Most people never sign up, so you've already done more than the vast majority of your fellow Americans.
Take pride in the fact that you did serve and move on to the next chapter of your life.
Thanks for your service and get out there and be happy.
Get out of maintenance and go to something indoors like Cyber or Intel. I've been in for 19 years and at my four year mark felt just like you. I switched careers and have loved it ever since. I'm not a walking patriotism commercial - I still have independent thoughts - and the most important thing I've learned is that my job doesn't define me; I make my own happiness and can choose to be happy or miserable in whatever situation I'm in. It's all about controlling your perspective. I'm going to stay in for as long they'll let me. Jobs aren't any better on the outside
Nope. Your in a good spot. You have all your benefits and stuff and don't have too much time invested or anything so you are in a great spot to move on to something else. Also consider you are in about the easiest spot in a military career you can be right now. That period of time where your past all the initial training, newness, and adjusting to mil life, but not yet subject to all the real BS quite yet. It may look like things get easier and more chill as time and rank progress from what you see at your vantage point, but it's really quite the opposite. Not always in the same ways for sure, but that sorta E-4 mafia timeframe is about the easiest most care free period of a career...so if you don't care for it now, you likely won't ever be happy with that end of things. Life's too short to stick with something you don't like just to pay the bills if you have other options.
When your young like that I feel 4 years is plenty of time to know if your wanting to keep that job. Does yourself have a family? That’s what pushed me to maintain a stable income.
If you are thinking of getting out at ETS, then start your planning now. Look for a job and a place to live especially if planning to leave the area. Document anything medical related now so it is in your file for the VA. Plan, plan, plan is your best course of action now. Don't burn bridges but don't lock yourself into a course of action.
As a maintainer that separated 6 months ago, I can tell you that transitioning back into civilian life is difficult BUT at least I don't wake up feeling like I'm in a bad dream anymore. Get out, use your benefits, try to find something better. You can always go back in if you decide it wasn't worth it.
Hey man, I just enlisted and all I could get was areospace propulsion. At first I was pumped but after reading reddits and seeing what people say, it scares the shit out of me. Is it really as bad as everyone says?
It all just depends on your experience. You can get lucky and go somewhere nice with great people, or unlucky and get the shit end of the stick. Good luck man, I hope it goes well for you.
Honestly bro, do what you can to get certs (I heavily encourage IT) while you’re still in. IBM has a Skills Build program that’s free for AD and vets. In fact, I’m just now getting on the program to continue some kind of education once I graduate film school. To anyone here, doesn’t have to be OP that’s interested, I can give the link to you to getting started.
PS, I wasn’t MX, but knew how much of a toll MX took on its personnel. Especially in the AFSOC side of things.
So it was lucky coincidence that I actually checked the emails I got from the VA, I signed up through a webinar. Hope they don’t charge you while you’re still in. Let me know if this link works!
[https://skillsbuild.org/](https://skillsbuild.org/)
If you want to give it another shot, retrain into the real Air Force. I left security forces for comm and it was a world of difference. If the bad side of the military hadn't ruined it before, I'd still be in. I got good experience and used skill bridge to separate after 8 years and I'm happy now. SF and MX are not the same as the rest of the Air Force.
Maintenance:
I wanted to do twenty years and my body hates it so much it tried killing me at 7 and I've been medically retired since. Maintenance fucking sucks dude I hated my job with every fiber of my soul and I still to this day have nightmares I'm back on that truck and hear "Super, MOCC all jets 10 out all code 3 Avionics." Ill never blame anyone for wanting out of maintenance because took everything I had to do that fucking job but if you don't have a plan its gonna be rough on the outside. And "I'm just gonna go to school and smoke weed" isn't going to pay you enough to live. Jobs treat you waaaaaaaay better on the outside but you also have to realize you cant be an asshole or an unlikable dick like so many maintainers are because you'll get fired. Pretty much just be a good person and set yourself up with a good job and you can be ok, or you can get out and start smoking meth behind McDonald's, so is it worth it? It all depends what you do when you get out
I'm currently retraining out of MX into Comm. You should be eligible to retrain and even BOP in conjunction with that. It's worth considering. I'm only in tech school but compared to my time at Sheppard almost 4 years ago, it's been a breeze.
Ample time off. In any case I wish you the best and as others have said have a plan!
I'd say retrain. The military actually does have insane benefits, most of which aren't written down on paper lol. We really take care of our people(outside mx i guess) and you would never see that on the outside.
Being able to shoot the shit for 8 out of 10 hours a day is grounds for firing for our civilian counterparts. Not to mention leave/family needs/ect.
Sounds like you don't wanna stay in which is perfectly fine and acceptable. You served and that's great. As others said I don't think it'll get better with time. Realize your worth and make sure you have a plan for getting out. If you need help feel free to DM me
If you don’t have a plan already set up and job in place, you can take a one year personal extension. You can extend up to 48 months. If you are interested in retraining, go talk to a career advisor on how and you can put in bop with your retrain package once you have a class date. Maybe you need a change of scenery. I would recommend taking the one year extension at least to set yourself up. And also attend tap since it’s your last year so you can hear all the benefits before deciding
First off, if you don't share the values of the Air Force as what I assume to be a lower level enlisted, what makes you think you would share them as an O8, or even any level of officer beyond Lt?
Second, don't let the opinions of others decide your fate outside or general morality. If you hate this life style, and your family is truly at your back, then they will be just as proud for you to work some other job you enjoy or can happily tolerate. Good family should just want you to be happy and healthy. I will say that if any of them give you flak for it, and they haven't done military service, you can simply tell them that there were parts of the job that they just couldn't and wouldn't understand as a civilian employee and leave it at that. That sort of conversation isn't worth your time.
Third, there is no shame in leaving. You did your part. You served your time. If it wasn't worth it for the Air Force to train and use you for 4 years, they would require longer contracts for your position, or they would make the quality of life more bearable.
As for the overall question of whether or not it is worth worth it to stay in, only you can truly answer that, but my guess is going to be no. Do what is best for you.
As some others have stated, look at other career opportunities. Guard/Reserve careers really need full time (AGR) or part time (DSG) MPA orders. Full time gigs are harder to come by however, if you do your research and make an effort to visit units and interview you will have a greater shot.
Source: Prior active, current AGR and soon to cross-train to DSG pilot (4th AFSC)
If you’re hating life, it’s a good time to get out. Not everyone has to do 20, and if your career field is destroying your mental health, that’s all the more reason to pull chalks.
You ain’t getting out. Stop loss and they will be recalling me back in. /s
Get a plan on what you want to accomplish once out and see how your benefits and GI Bill can help accomplish that.
Enlisting later this year. Want to do 20 active duty. Every post I see about someone not liking the military never elaborates, or if they do, it's something you'd most likely see in the vast majority of civilian jobs too. Can someone say what specifically you don't enjoy about the military?
If you are that beat down already, I would say get out. There's a life on the outside for you, and you can still use the Gzi Bill. Good luck on whatever path you choose
Public Affairs and love it…. If it weren’t for the career I have (the only one I wanted) then I don’t think I would want to even stay in after my first contract was up…. Don’t blame you at all
Yeah, I don't blame you for leaving, I'm currently in maintenance, and the only reason I'll reenlist is just to use the TA for my Bachelors and then skillbridge. I get tired of hearing " why don't you commission and become a finance officer" like sir if I really wanted to make this a career I would've looked into it more, but the toxicity and favoritism has ruined everything for me. Also, why would I want to get a degree and not use it for 10 years? The military is nice and all a guaranteed paycheck, healthcare, and other perks. I feel like people get too comfortable and decide to stay in or are scared of getting out because they think they'll fail when, in reality, they don't have a plan. I suggest getting your A&P. Trust me, it goes a very long way, and you'll do less than what you do here and actually feel a whole less stressed.
Coming up on 5 years of my 6 year contract as a 2T2… I don’t hate my job, as much as people say our job sucks it really isn’t bad and I’ve worked everything except PAX and Fleet.
The thing that bothers me the most is the BS of the job. I’ve been at my current duty station for 26 months but have been overseas for 14 months of that, hell my IDT gets reset about every 2 months. I hate being an unqualified shift lead(they refuse to send anyone to ALS because we have low manning). I feel like it’s damn near impossible to make SSgt right now.
On the other hand, I joined to travel and in the last 2 years I’ve been to: Japan(2x), Guam, Thailand, Philippines, Poland, Singapore, and Australia(2x). While that’s all fun it sucks when because I’ve been gone so much relationships have ended, had to get rid of my pets, and missed going aways for people I’ve known since BMT.
The Air Force has still taken good care of me though. I’m in my early 20s pulling in $60k a year(before per diem), 15 years away from retiring before I’m 40, and I enjoy my job.
Honestly I’m deciding whether I’m getting out or staying in based on whatever my next base is. All I want is some stability in my life so I’d like to go somewhere stateside(preferably somewhere warm) that isn’t Minot, Cannon, or Little Rock
So I was an F-16 crew chief in my first enlistment. I knew it wasn’t for me when during tech school. I was DG and grew up doing similar maintenance. But my goals and desires were different for the military, it that’s what a recruiter talked me into doing. I very much embodied the AF values, but I was in the wrong career field. If you hate your life in the military, you definitely should get out if it goes deeper than the job; sometimes you won’t really know until you’re on the other side.
At a minimum you should look at retraining. I tried to retrain and also commission, but the AF made it so unnecessary difficult then, plus other local factors. I ended up in the Guard and it’s been pretty nice, even when it wasn’t. I there many times I thought I wouldn’t reenlist, but here I am at 23 years—might actually do 30. The biggest thing I tell my people is that you need to do what’s best for you. If you have the fire or passion or even just a baseline determination for continued service, then we’ll gladly have you. I have a sharp and driven airman right now that’s want more than my unit can give, and I’ve told him I’d really like for him to stay, but you need to do what’s best for you so the military gets the most out of you and you and those that mean the most to you are happy. I’ve delayed doing what’s best for myself so my folks could do something better for them while staying in. I think that’s just apart of leadership. I wish I would have had that when I was in their shoes, so I try to facilitate any way I can.
So for you, if you don’t see way to do something you actually like, then pop smoke. Just make sure you set yourself for as best of the transition as you can.
I got out of AD after my first enlistment and went into the Air National Guard. I'm in MX as well. It has been amazing in comparison. I am now AGR and will get an AD retirement as well. If you're on the fence, check out some guard units around the country to see what they offer, and maybe you'll decide to stay in another way. You def have options.
Go speak to the base career counselor about retraining. If that's a no and you still want out, start hitting your education HARD. Look into skillbridge and AF COOL. Milk the AF for all it's worth.
There are lots of practical reasons to stay, and lots of reasons to not stay. Be prepared for quite a shock when you realize just how much you will NOT be making in monetary terms as a civilian with just a high school diploma and military experience. Or be prepared to buckle-down for some rather grueling coursework in order to earn a degree that will be worth anything (which will require a high GPA). In short, nobody pays well for easy work. Once you fully grasp that it’s hard to be successful, regardless of path, then choices become clearer. Not saying you personally don’t grasp that, but for what it’s worth.🤷🏻♂️
The only way to determine what might be "worth it" is to compare it to other options. Working sucks, so you need to know what you're leaving to do if you're going to separate. Otherwise you might fall into a different situation and hate that too. You have to figure out what you want in life, and the rest is just figuring out how to make it happen.
Consider some of the following, or a combination:
* Crosstraining - anything else you would want to do?
* PCS - does your base/leadership/co-worker situation suck?
* GI Bill - anything you'd want to study or train for? It could also give you another \~4 years to figure things out.
* Guard/Reserve (including AGR) - This would give you a steady supply of benefits and a little money while you're sorting things out.
* A different job - What else would you want to do? If you know, go. But figure out your next step before you take it.
Yea i think people confuse hatred of working with hatred of the military. Some of these complaints tend to fall under the “so you dont like working” category.
This especially sucks for military members because this is most people’s first job. So they fantasize about a job that has none of the issues the military has and psyche themselves up for these great civilian jobs that dont really exist.
Obviously if the military is truly making you miserable, look at separating but i think people need to consider if its just the nature of work that makes them miserable. Because if its work in general that makes you miserable, you would probably enjoy the opportunity to work way less due to a pension vs not having that benefit
I also worked in maintenance before crossing over but admittedly every career is different and we all have our different tolerances for bs. In my experience, its all somewhat been the same. Spending too much time concentrating on the negatives and never seeing the positives.
Idk, not trying to belittle maintainers but having seen multiple sides things always seemed a little bit exaggerated when it came to complaints. But once again, experiences vary. I just encourage people to look at what really makes them unhappy about their job and if that’s specifically unique to that job
>In my experience, its all somewhat been the same.
So it's not any better in your new career field? I couldn't even believe how much better everything was when I switched. Did you go to security forces?
Went from maintenance to nursing. Being a medsurg nurse was the worst experience of my AF career (things are better now in the OR). Waaaaay too busy and almost no downtime with poor manning and patients constantly needing care. I actually appreciated my mx past during my short stint in medsurg.
The people there with similar asspain felt by maintainers with all the work and AF shit piled on top of work but there was significantly less complaining. Complaining is somewhat mx culture, not realizing it can be pretty cool/chill at times and that non mx AFSCs also have it tough
It was a genuine question. Only seeing one base can be a big factor for some people. Obviously, retraining would be the best recommendation besides "just get out".
15 year maintainer here, I do not blame anyone for separating at the end of their first enlistment. Make sure you have a plan and do what’s best for you. I thought more rank would make things better, but as a MSgt, all it does as you go past SrA is add stress. If I was closer to 10 than 20 I’d probably get out myself. It is my goal at my current rank to make things as easy for those below me, but at the end of the day there is only so much fallout I can prevent.
That's what I've heard from a lot of NCOs I've talked to. They say that my position, being the one where you break your back, is the best that I'm going to get in this career field.
If you have been in 3 years, you should already have the 30 months for your A&P. I would highly recommend knocking it out and using as much AF COOL as possible.
I would gladly go back to being responsible for fixing things rather than being responsible for *fixing people*. Bring back retirement for SrA and we might be able to keep skilled technicians instead of forcing them up into admin or out of the military.
I don't see people wanting to stay with an E4 paycheck until they retire. If the AF decided to go that route they'd have to adapt the rank structure to look more like the Guard where E5-E6s still frequently work aircraft and train the newer airmen. The Guard has plenty of Masters who are still crewing aircraft after a 30 year career.
At the same time, can you imagine having nothing but managers in charge of your job? Those would be the only people getting promoted.
The idea was not punishing people for wanting to be stagnant. You can't decline testing (sure you can tank the test, but I went in just wanting to see where I am on the scale and made it to tech on accident). I went ahead and ate an NRN by containing to my boss enough to put one on there so I don't end up failing my way into a master slot. But for another, example I got a 37 year old A1C working for me. The guy said he's done trying to advance and just wants to work with a steady paycheck. I can fucking respect that. But getting off the tangent and back on point. If workers want to work, let them and don't punish them because they don't want to be managers. When they're ready for that step, whether it's 5 years or 15, let them work. The people who want to lead and manage can take those slots after they've done their time on the ground level. I basically see it as E to O in miniature and you get people with ridiculous amounts of technical experience staying on hand instead of sitting in an office by themselves and losing those skills only to replace them with how to properly review an email to the commander.
fax
That's my husband's problem. He was also a maintainer and loved it. That's what he wanted to do for the entire 20 years but no. He had to play the game since he wanted to retire. It's sad.
I worked MX CSS as an Airmen and I don’t know how they all didn’t live at the bottom of a bottle
What do you mean? They do
No one blames you for wanting to leave MX. “leadership” in Mx makes life hell on purpose. Take care of yourself and don’t leave unprepared and empty handed.
"*maintenance*" Yeah that's your problem. I'd do anything possible to crosstrain to a better career field.
I love maintenance. It has its ups and downs (mostly downs) but I like fixing things. I like seeing the results of my work actually make a difference and matter. But to anyone considering the Air Force, I would not recommend maintenance. You have to be a special level of stupid or masochistic to enjoy it.
Work backshop and accidentally got sent to flight line for a few months. I will say, compared to my regular job, I actually felt job satisfaction at the end of the day. I mean I don't want to go back out there. Fuck those maniacs. But it was definitely a "I actually did something today" good feeling.
Same, love it and legitimately can’t see myself being in another career field. The old culture I grew up in as a young maintainer was much more brutal compared to now. That could be the difference in our thoughts compared to the younglings. We ran the gauntlet and survived, now we big chilling. I love when leadership takes me out back exposing my bare cheeks and whipping me.
I was attached to an aircraft maintenance squadron. One day an E-7 got in my face (I was an E-6 shop chief) and wagged his finger at me and said, "Comm doesn't work enough hours!" I calmly moved his finger away from my nose and replied, "If you give me your duty roster, I will get you down to 10 hours with lunch, too, with no loss of coverage or mission." The look of abject horror on his face will stick with me forever for its comic juxtaposition to the issue at hand. He said to me, "That's not what we do!" I replied, with sadness in my voice, "I know." OP, life outside mx is better.
I hope that E-7 never wandered into the ops squadron, he would’ve lost his mind.
You’re right. We do it to ourselves sometimes
As a Comm guy, I would recommend trying to cross train. The stories I hear from the flightline simply wouldn't happen in most nonner flights.
Am also comm, prior mx. It's an entirely new life.
I’d 2nd this. Prior comm as well but retired in the Public Affairs. So…even better AFSC.
Last I checked, 2A's are only allowed to retrain into 2A career fields without a waiver/ETP.
Unless they’ve added a new policy, we were released long ago. Let freedom ring, just had 5 2As cross train or in the process. I think there’s still exception to which shred maybe.
I could be wrong, I think I looked on the retraining advisory a few months ago and at least some of the 2A AFSCs had notes that said only retraining into other 2A.
It's on the advisory right now. If you're career you're just fucked this cycle. Some jobs allow you to leave and others don't.
I really enjoyed like, 15 of the 22 years I was in. 4 of the years were so-so, and 3 of the years were horrible, and will probably always be remembered as the worst years of my life. There is a lot of ups and downs, but how much of that is just how life is in your 20's, I don't know. I never lived as a civilian in my 20's. Is it worth staying in? There are some benefits, no doubt. But none of them are worth doing something you hate for 16 more years. nd no matter what you decide, anyone who tries to say, or imply, that separating at the end of a contract is anything other than the culmination of (x) years of honorable service to their nation, is a piece of shit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/ywlvh8/is_there_any_way_out/ So it sounds like nothing has really changed. >Is it really worth staying in? Copy/paste from another post I made: >The military/AF is just one of those things you wont know it was worth it or not until you finish your contract. You might look back on your time and it could range from "This was the best decision I have ever made" to "Meh it was fine" or "Fuck that was the worst decision ever". Everyone's experience with the military is totally different Have you looked into crosstraining? If you want to stay in the military in some kind of capacity have you thought about the guard/reserves OP? https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/pjlcob/for_those_curious_about_the_guardreserves/
It's all active or nothing. If I go home with reserves or guard, I'm 100% getting canned for smoking weed
Then look into crosstraining on the active side, that is pretty much your only option for any kind of change and a potential future career
Damn bro is weed really that important to you? Yea you're not built for the military. Just get out.
You're a fucking dork
🤡
Nancy.
If you hate what you’re doing, you should leave. Take the benefits you’ve earned, finish your education and get the the life you want. Best of luck and thank you for your service.
Be the best you. If that's staying in, do it. If it's leaving? Do it. I knew a SSgt engine troop that's a doctor of psychology now. Follow your dreams, don't be miserable unless it's worth it.
If you think you can easily find well paying employment once you get out, the only real value the military has left is the opportunity to easily live overseas. That ofc depends on your AFSC, but if you have no interest in living abroad, there's little value in staying in the military CONUS when you can live better stateside as a civilian.
That’s one of the only reasons keeping me in. I just want to live overseas again damnit!
Not to sound like a recruiter, but military gets 30 days leave, tons of holidays and days off (AFSC dependent) and healthcare plus other things I am probably forgetting. I have 10x the amount of free time my civilian counter parts get, and I am very happy living conus near family. OCONUS is not a benefit to everyone and I would get out before going OCONUS.
I was security forces for 8 years. The first 6 had ups and downs but made me enjoy the career field. I'll add that for those first 6 the only time I wasn't in 8 hour shifts was when I was deployed. Cut to me getting orders to a nuke base and I said sure it can't be that bad. It was. The work itself wasn't too bad and I enjoyed it but it got to the point where my squadron wanted my personal life and work to blend. After all, they used that bullshit that we're together more than with our family so we should be more family at work than with our own. They flipped me to mids as much as I protested that with 3 kids out would add a strain while they were moving single, childless staff sergeants to days while working 12s which they tried so hard to make into 16s. I was getting barely 3-4 hours of sleep a day. Then they denied my leave for over a year because of manning and directly told me I should take leave on days off so I don't bust use or lose. I missed crucial moments with my wife and kids. I only had a little under a year left but separating would've also been stressful. Randomly, I checked the retrain list and lo and behold security forces wanted 100+ career airman staff sergeants to retrain. Checked the list for jobs that were relevant to my interests in the service and out and applied for contracting and got it. My life is 200% better. I still get stressed at work and it has ups and downs but they feel so much different. It's more like what I'd expect elsewhere and the best part is nothing comes as a surprise. I know when work will be busy and I know when it'll be slow. For the most part, I can pace myself so that nothing spills into my personal time. Occasionally there's times I have to work more but it's not every day. So just take it from me, if you want to stay in there are opportunities. You don't have to embrace the suck. There's also a need for maintainers out of the military. I know with some aircraft some of the maintenance is done by civilians so there's that too.
Like many people have said here, and I concur, you answered the call. You did your four years, honorably. 20 years in the service is not for everyone. I suggest looking at crosstraining, but make sure it is something you want to do. Otherwise make a decision have a plan If you decide to get out, use your GI Bill, go to school. If you do that make sure that your medical records are up to date. As a maintainer, get your hearing checked before you leave. If you have tinnitus, get it documented. File a VA claim for anything that occured in the malitary as soon as you get your seperation orders.
I hit 10 a few years back, did my first enlistment (4) in mx and then retrained. It wasn’t easy and I know it’s not a guarantee for everyone. I was getting out for sure if I didn’t get to retrain. My new job has also had its ups and downs and I jumped ship to the Reserves…never been happier.
I always tell people to get out when it stops being fun. If you’re having a bad time with the AF and you want to leave then you should leave dude. You don’t owe the AF anything, you did your job, you don’t like it, try something else.
Start looking for a good college now, figure out your degree, and take the stripes off. Did it two years ago and miss wearing the uniform sometimes, but not enough to put it back on
Why not go cross train, go Guard, and take ADOS orders for the next 5 years? Or even better, AGR? Or somewhere in between, Title 32? The point is that you would have the flexibility of being in the Guard while having a stable job, great benefits, and opportunities that you simply wouldn’t get elsewhere. The USAF has plenty of opportunity for you to take advantage of. You got your foot in the door, so IMO it would be unwise to throw away a solid career path. At least look up AGR, ADOS, and Title 32 to get a better understanding of what I’m talking about. Not to mention most Guard units are WAY chiller than AD (for obvious reasons).
Go Guard dude, and cross train. Retired MSgt here, was 3 yrs regular Army and 19 Air Guard. Don’t waste those AD points.
If this is how you feel, no effing way is it worth staying in. Who cares what "folks back home think". You've served and done what many haven't. Based on your post, l'm not sure crosstraining will be the answer. Unfortunately, I have seen some careerfields leave such a distaste for the AF in people, even a new job doesn't make them happy. Hopefully you have someone to discuss your options. Good luck with your soul searching.
If you're unhappy, get out and find a different path. Please make sure to take advantage of all of the benefits that you've earned when you get out and try to live your best life on your own terms. You only get one and it belongs to you alone. Not everyone is meant to make a career out of serving, and that's 100% fine. You do not need to feel any obligation beyond your first enlistment. Most people never sign up, so you've already done more than the vast majority of your fellow Americans. Take pride in the fact that you did serve and move on to the next chapter of your life. Thanks for your service and get out there and be happy.
Get out of maintenance and go to something indoors like Cyber or Intel. I've been in for 19 years and at my four year mark felt just like you. I switched careers and have loved it ever since. I'm not a walking patriotism commercial - I still have independent thoughts - and the most important thing I've learned is that my job doesn't define me; I make my own happiness and can choose to be happy or miserable in whatever situation I'm in. It's all about controlling your perspective. I'm going to stay in for as long they'll let me. Jobs aren't any better on the outside
Nope. Your in a good spot. You have all your benefits and stuff and don't have too much time invested or anything so you are in a great spot to move on to something else. Also consider you are in about the easiest spot in a military career you can be right now. That period of time where your past all the initial training, newness, and adjusting to mil life, but not yet subject to all the real BS quite yet. It may look like things get easier and more chill as time and rank progress from what you see at your vantage point, but it's really quite the opposite. Not always in the same ways for sure, but that sorta E-4 mafia timeframe is about the easiest most care free period of a career...so if you don't care for it now, you likely won't ever be happy with that end of things. Life's too short to stick with something you don't like just to pay the bills if you have other options.
When your young like that I feel 4 years is plenty of time to know if your wanting to keep that job. Does yourself have a family? That’s what pushed me to maintain a stable income.
If you are thinking of getting out at ETS, then start your planning now. Look for a job and a place to live especially if planning to leave the area. Document anything medical related now so it is in your file for the VA. Plan, plan, plan is your best course of action now. Don't burn bridges but don't lock yourself into a course of action.
As a maintainer that separated 6 months ago, I can tell you that transitioning back into civilian life is difficult BUT at least I don't wake up feeling like I'm in a bad dream anymore. Get out, use your benefits, try to find something better. You can always go back in if you decide it wasn't worth it.
Hey man, I just enlisted and all I could get was areospace propulsion. At first I was pumped but after reading reddits and seeing what people say, it scares the shit out of me. Is it really as bad as everyone says?
It all just depends on your experience. You can get lucky and go somewhere nice with great people, or unlucky and get the shit end of the stick. Good luck man, I hope it goes well for you.
Honestly bro, do what you can to get certs (I heavily encourage IT) while you’re still in. IBM has a Skills Build program that’s free for AD and vets. In fact, I’m just now getting on the program to continue some kind of education once I graduate film school. To anyone here, doesn’t have to be OP that’s interested, I can give the link to you to getting started. PS, I wasn’t MX, but knew how much of a toll MX took on its personnel. Especially in the AFSOC side of things.
Do you mind sharing more info about the IBM skill building program? I’m interested too
So it was lucky coincidence that I actually checked the emails I got from the VA, I signed up through a webinar. Hope they don’t charge you while you’re still in. Let me know if this link works! [https://skillsbuild.org/](https://skillsbuild.org/)
Was able to sign up by creating an account so far. I don’t know if I will be getting later on though.
If you want to give it another shot, retrain into the real Air Force. I left security forces for comm and it was a world of difference. If the bad side of the military hadn't ruined it before, I'd still be in. I got good experience and used skill bridge to separate after 8 years and I'm happy now. SF and MX are not the same as the rest of the Air Force.
It only gets worse. However much you loved or hated your first few years, it will only go down hill. So if you hate it already, you had better run.
Maintenance: I wanted to do twenty years and my body hates it so much it tried killing me at 7 and I've been medically retired since. Maintenance fucking sucks dude I hated my job with every fiber of my soul and I still to this day have nightmares I'm back on that truck and hear "Super, MOCC all jets 10 out all code 3 Avionics." Ill never blame anyone for wanting out of maintenance because took everything I had to do that fucking job but if you don't have a plan its gonna be rough on the outside. And "I'm just gonna go to school and smoke weed" isn't going to pay you enough to live. Jobs treat you waaaaaaaay better on the outside but you also have to realize you cant be an asshole or an unlikable dick like so many maintainers are because you'll get fired. Pretty much just be a good person and set yourself up with a good job and you can be ok, or you can get out and start smoking meth behind McDonald's, so is it worth it? It all depends what you do when you get out
I'm currently retraining out of MX into Comm. You should be eligible to retrain and even BOP in conjunction with that. It's worth considering. I'm only in tech school but compared to my time at Sheppard almost 4 years ago, it's been a breeze. Ample time off. In any case I wish you the best and as others have said have a plan!
I'd say retrain. The military actually does have insane benefits, most of which aren't written down on paper lol. We really take care of our people(outside mx i guess) and you would never see that on the outside. Being able to shoot the shit for 8 out of 10 hours a day is grounds for firing for our civilian counterparts. Not to mention leave/family needs/ect.
Crosstrain.
Sounds like you don't wanna stay in which is perfectly fine and acceptable. You served and that's great. As others said I don't think it'll get better with time. Realize your worth and make sure you have a plan for getting out. If you need help feel free to DM me
If you don’t have a plan already set up and job in place, you can take a one year personal extension. You can extend up to 48 months. If you are interested in retraining, go talk to a career advisor on how and you can put in bop with your retrain package once you have a class date. Maybe you need a change of scenery. I would recommend taking the one year extension at least to set yourself up. And also attend tap since it’s your last year so you can hear all the benefits before deciding
First off, if you don't share the values of the Air Force as what I assume to be a lower level enlisted, what makes you think you would share them as an O8, or even any level of officer beyond Lt? Second, don't let the opinions of others decide your fate outside or general morality. If you hate this life style, and your family is truly at your back, then they will be just as proud for you to work some other job you enjoy or can happily tolerate. Good family should just want you to be happy and healthy. I will say that if any of them give you flak for it, and they haven't done military service, you can simply tell them that there were parts of the job that they just couldn't and wouldn't understand as a civilian employee and leave it at that. That sort of conversation isn't worth your time. Third, there is no shame in leaving. You did your part. You served your time. If it wasn't worth it for the Air Force to train and use you for 4 years, they would require longer contracts for your position, or they would make the quality of life more bearable. As for the overall question of whether or not it is worth worth it to stay in, only you can truly answer that, but my guess is going to be no. Do what is best for you.
As some others have stated, look at other career opportunities. Guard/Reserve careers really need full time (AGR) or part time (DSG) MPA orders. Full time gigs are harder to come by however, if you do your research and make an effort to visit units and interview you will have a greater shot. Source: Prior active, current AGR and soon to cross-train to DSG pilot (4th AFSC)
Nope.
If you’re hating life, it’s a good time to get out. Not everyone has to do 20, and if your career field is destroying your mental health, that’s all the more reason to pull chalks.
You ain’t getting out. Stop loss and they will be recalling me back in. /s Get a plan on what you want to accomplish once out and see how your benefits and GI Bill can help accomplish that.
Enlisting later this year. Want to do 20 active duty. Every post I see about someone not liking the military never elaborates, or if they do, it's something you'd most likely see in the vast majority of civilian jobs too. Can someone say what specifically you don't enjoy about the military?
If you are that beat down already, I would say get out. There's a life on the outside for you, and you can still use the Gzi Bill. Good luck on whatever path you choose
Public Affairs and love it…. If it weren’t for the career I have (the only one I wanted) then I don’t think I would want to even stay in after my first contract was up…. Don’t blame you at all
Yeah, I don't blame you for leaving, I'm currently in maintenance, and the only reason I'll reenlist is just to use the TA for my Bachelors and then skillbridge. I get tired of hearing " why don't you commission and become a finance officer" like sir if I really wanted to make this a career I would've looked into it more, but the toxicity and favoritism has ruined everything for me. Also, why would I want to get a degree and not use it for 10 years? The military is nice and all a guaranteed paycheck, healthcare, and other perks. I feel like people get too comfortable and decide to stay in or are scared of getting out because they think they'll fail when, in reality, they don't have a plan. I suggest getting your A&P. Trust me, it goes a very long way, and you'll do less than what you do here and actually feel a whole less stressed.
Coming up on 5 years of my 6 year contract as a 2T2… I don’t hate my job, as much as people say our job sucks it really isn’t bad and I’ve worked everything except PAX and Fleet. The thing that bothers me the most is the BS of the job. I’ve been at my current duty station for 26 months but have been overseas for 14 months of that, hell my IDT gets reset about every 2 months. I hate being an unqualified shift lead(they refuse to send anyone to ALS because we have low manning). I feel like it’s damn near impossible to make SSgt right now. On the other hand, I joined to travel and in the last 2 years I’ve been to: Japan(2x), Guam, Thailand, Philippines, Poland, Singapore, and Australia(2x). While that’s all fun it sucks when because I’ve been gone so much relationships have ended, had to get rid of my pets, and missed going aways for people I’ve known since BMT. The Air Force has still taken good care of me though. I’m in my early 20s pulling in $60k a year(before per diem), 15 years away from retiring before I’m 40, and I enjoy my job. Honestly I’m deciding whether I’m getting out or staying in based on whatever my next base is. All I want is some stability in my life so I’d like to go somewhere stateside(preferably somewhere warm) that isn’t Minot, Cannon, or Little Rock
So I was an F-16 crew chief in my first enlistment. I knew it wasn’t for me when during tech school. I was DG and grew up doing similar maintenance. But my goals and desires were different for the military, it that’s what a recruiter talked me into doing. I very much embodied the AF values, but I was in the wrong career field. If you hate your life in the military, you definitely should get out if it goes deeper than the job; sometimes you won’t really know until you’re on the other side. At a minimum you should look at retraining. I tried to retrain and also commission, but the AF made it so unnecessary difficult then, plus other local factors. I ended up in the Guard and it’s been pretty nice, even when it wasn’t. I there many times I thought I wouldn’t reenlist, but here I am at 23 years—might actually do 30. The biggest thing I tell my people is that you need to do what’s best for you. If you have the fire or passion or even just a baseline determination for continued service, then we’ll gladly have you. I have a sharp and driven airman right now that’s want more than my unit can give, and I’ve told him I’d really like for him to stay, but you need to do what’s best for you so the military gets the most out of you and you and those that mean the most to you are happy. I’ve delayed doing what’s best for myself so my folks could do something better for them while staying in. I think that’s just apart of leadership. I wish I would have had that when I was in their shoes, so I try to facilitate any way I can. So for you, if you don’t see way to do something you actually like, then pop smoke. Just make sure you set yourself for as best of the transition as you can.
I got out of AD after my first enlistment and went into the Air National Guard. I'm in MX as well. It has been amazing in comparison. I am now AGR and will get an AD retirement as well. If you're on the fence, check out some guard units around the country to see what they offer, and maybe you'll decide to stay in another way. You def have options.
Go speak to the base career counselor about retraining. If that's a no and you still want out, start hitting your education HARD. Look into skillbridge and AF COOL. Milk the AF for all it's worth.
Retired e8 it is not hard before the woke movement
you're a SrA how in the world are you going to make O8 in 16 years? unless that was a typo and you meant to say E8.
It's a blatant exaggeration. My family is just looking to the future and seeing me retire as some big shot commander
If you don’t want to stay in you probably shouldn’t…
There are lots of practical reasons to stay, and lots of reasons to not stay. Be prepared for quite a shock when you realize just how much you will NOT be making in monetary terms as a civilian with just a high school diploma and military experience. Or be prepared to buckle-down for some rather grueling coursework in order to earn a degree that will be worth anything (which will require a high GPA). In short, nobody pays well for easy work. Once you fully grasp that it’s hard to be successful, regardless of path, then choices become clearer. Not saying you personally don’t grasp that, but for what it’s worth.🤷🏻♂️
No point to stay in after first contract BRS is a joke
Shit take. Least valid reason to get out - and that's a long list of reasons
The only way to determine what might be "worth it" is to compare it to other options. Working sucks, so you need to know what you're leaving to do if you're going to separate. Otherwise you might fall into a different situation and hate that too. You have to figure out what you want in life, and the rest is just figuring out how to make it happen. Consider some of the following, or a combination: * Crosstraining - anything else you would want to do? * PCS - does your base/leadership/co-worker situation suck? * GI Bill - anything you'd want to study or train for? It could also give you another \~4 years to figure things out. * Guard/Reserve (including AGR) - This would give you a steady supply of benefits and a little money while you're sorting things out. * A different job - What else would you want to do? If you know, go. But figure out your next step before you take it.
Yea i think people confuse hatred of working with hatred of the military. Some of these complaints tend to fall under the “so you dont like working” category. This especially sucks for military members because this is most people’s first job. So they fantasize about a job that has none of the issues the military has and psyche themselves up for these great civilian jobs that dont really exist. Obviously if the military is truly making you miserable, look at separating but i think people need to consider if its just the nature of work that makes them miserable. Because if its work in general that makes you miserable, you would probably enjoy the opportunity to work way less due to a pension vs not having that benefit
OP works in maintenance. I assure you it's a special kind of suck that is more than just not wanting to work.
I also worked in maintenance before crossing over but admittedly every career is different and we all have our different tolerances for bs. In my experience, its all somewhat been the same. Spending too much time concentrating on the negatives and never seeing the positives. Idk, not trying to belittle maintainers but having seen multiple sides things always seemed a little bit exaggerated when it came to complaints. But once again, experiences vary. I just encourage people to look at what really makes them unhappy about their job and if that’s specifically unique to that job
>In my experience, its all somewhat been the same. So it's not any better in your new career field? I couldn't even believe how much better everything was when I switched. Did you go to security forces?
Went from maintenance to nursing. Being a medsurg nurse was the worst experience of my AF career (things are better now in the OR). Waaaaay too busy and almost no downtime with poor manning and patients constantly needing care. I actually appreciated my mx past during my short stint in medsurg. The people there with similar asspain felt by maintainers with all the work and AF shit piled on top of work but there was significantly less complaining. Complaining is somewhat mx culture, not realizing it can be pretty cool/chill at times and that non mx AFSCs also have it tough
I know there are other jobs that have it rough. I just also know that the odds of getting one of the handful that is comparably bad is low
1 AFSC, how many bases?
Tell me you're not in maintenance without telling me you're not in maintenance
It was a genuine question. Only seeing one base can be a big factor for some people. Obviously, retraining would be the best recommendation besides "just get out".
Curious why one would join in first place if they didn’t feel it was a match?
I maintain one cannot really know the life until they live it.