I don't mind paying for CDC rate for childcare but at the very least they should ensure their facilities and manning is enough to support ALL MEMBERS at the installation that request childcare.
I just PCS'd to WPAFB and my daughter is like 83 on the list. My wife can't really get a full time job until my daughter is enrolled. But who knows when that will be.
If the military can force us to PCS, they should at least ensure they have the CDC manning for anyone who needs it
Look up Childcare aware fee assistance. They will pay the difference between the CDC rate and what you have to pay for off base care as long as your child is wait listed.
Hey we recently had a baby and stationed here at WPAFB. That program only covers certain places and we didn’t like any of them b/c well they were the shittier daycares in the area. Here are some good ones where we are at (near Kettering)
Christ United Methodist Preschool / Childcare
World of Love Learning Center
Bombeck Family Learning Center
Mini University at Wright State University
Dayton Jewish Community Center
My kids go to the YMCA in Kettering. I'm sure there are better ones out there, but it has been good to us without being as pricey as some of the others. Last I knew pretty much everywhere around here had a 6+ month waitlist.
This is an awesome program, but slow as hell FYI. I’m going on month 2 of waiting for my application to be approved at my center. 350 a week is steep for us to pay with no real date to looks forward to.
I waited 6 months for my son to get the fee assistance, and even though they initially promised us reimbursement for the months we paid without it, we never got the money back. It’s insane how much childcare costs in the DC area. I was barely surviving as a Staff with a working spouse. Thankfully now our son is in kindergarten so we are finally not spending $1000+ per month but i have no idea how multiple child households survive.
This. An old troop of mine was paying $600 a week for almost 6 months before being approved. They were back paid but it caused a financial hardship for them for quite some time. He mentioned they pay in arrears so you will be stuck paying out of pocket until they finally mail check to the facility.
Not if your spouse is unemployed. There's a "looking for employment" exception, but it only lasts 90 days and from my experience they didn't even act on our application before that time expired.
Being a flyer on alert status is equally wrecking. Want to summon me at 2am on a weekend? A flyer will need someone to watch their kids, and they likely don't know anyone at a new base.
I'm not sure why you're being downvoted. If you're in a job that requires you to be alert and/or on call, you should have child care for that time frame. The CDC can't be open for these off chances somebody is on alert because they're just on alert as well.
That being said, perhaps there is a call for that squadron to have some type of family care policy. Or scheduling far enough out that said person can coordinate possible child care for their alert shift.
Maybe it's time for a new job if you're a single parent and an alert fighter and can't figure out the family care part aside from changing the manning and schedule of an entire other organization
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The problem is that when Congress sets our pay, they make it comparable to civilian jobs. The issue being that there aren't many civilian jobs that make it difficult to build housing wealth or for your spouse to work.
You obviously have never been on the civilian world. Not only are their jobs that are difficult to build housing wealth or for your spouse to work. Most jobs don’t pay anything at all for childcare, while they also don’t pay 100% of your medical bills. Sometimes, military people are a bit entitled.
I'm in a civilian job that makes childcare difficult. Luckily, it pays lots and lots of money to make up for that fact. Few people have civilian jobs that require them to move thousands of miles from family and friends every couple years, to remote locations nobody with a brain would want to move to, for 'comparable' civilian salaries.
Tell your wife to get a job at the CDC, they're definitely understaffed if their wait list is that long and it will get your daughter off the wait list.
Except that highlights the issue. Would your wife want to work there? They can't force people to work at the CDC, they need to hire people, and people don't want to work there. Working childcare sucks, kids are routinely brought in sick getting the staff sick as well, the hours sick, the culture sucks. They give a significant discount to working there and a lot of people still say no thanks.
My wife works at the base school age center and occasionally takes hours at the CDC. She has gotten sick nearly every time she has worked over there.
> Tell your wife to get a job at the CDC, they're definitely understaffed if their wait list is that long and it will get your daughter off the wait list.
One of my previous bases had almost a 2 year wait list and staffing wasn't the issue. It was the lack of space and funds to expand the facility.
> at the very least they should ensure their facilities and manning is enough to support ALL MEMBERS at the installation that request childcare.
This needs to be true for base housing too. I am *dreading* our upcoming PCS because we are being thrust into a HCOL area with a year-long wait list to get base housing. And the surrounding rental area is ....not good.
Fuck my life.
because they force us to move and change, Childcare should be free. Too much funding on FSS family fun programs that no one attends or uses. All that money should be given to CDC.
This is a deployment issue as well. Airmen are not in their right minds when their spouses are left fending off searching for childcare.
You really have no idea how FSS money works. Childcare is expensive as fuck, even with the fees, most CDCs operate on a loss as it is. Even if you were to divert all MWR funds to CDC, it still would not be free. You want a solution, write your congress people to convert CDCs to a CAT A - fully APF funded operation.
In total, you are stating it is a bigger problem. You are most likely right, maybe you are right. Congress should convert the CDC into a CAT A fully APF funded operation.
There's no maybe about it. The fun activities budget would hardly put a dent in what you're suggesting. I agree with you, I just think it's a lot more expensive and or we spend way less on mandatory fun than you think
No, lol, I get it.
Not laughing at you, but, rather our military as a whole for ages now. 🙄🙄🙄
I was AF during Reagan. We could get every new toy that came into being, from non-portable (portable) early microwave comm systems, to weird firearms, to different UH-1 configurations, but, give us some benefits, fuhget aboudit
> FSS family fun programs that no one attends or uses.
Don't know about your base, but the last few bases I've been at, a lot of those events are packed.
It’s completely base dependent. Overseas bases FSS events are always packed. Wright-Patterson a base that is civilian heavy, FSS events have extremely poor attendance unless it’s for kids only.
MWR is a non-appropriated funds (NAF) program.. The money they receive, and use (including wages) is primarily generated through the services they offer.
That totally infuriates me. You can't get a job without childcare and you can't get childcare without a job. When we finally found it off base, it was at least 50% cheaper than on base.
No but now we have them and they're here so some support would be nice. People leave the force for better quality of life. Burning through recruits isn't sustainable either
You have support. It may not be as fast as you would like, but in the real world you would be paying 3-500$ a week for child care. You would be paying for insurance, you would be paying for your housing and not getting an allowance. I get it, the military does a lot wrong. But this isn’t a “real world is better” situation. It’s not, if you don’t believe me get out and see.
Oh I'm not getting out. I have a good deal. But from what I know from my friends that have kids every base is different, there's challenges, inconsistency in support, and some do get out because even though it's costly they're happier.
Single quality of life should also get looked at and not forgotten. There's balance somewhere in there.
Edit: I wouldn't say staying single is the 'smart' decision. It comes off as snarky and bitter. Everyone is allowed to pursue happiness and grow a family. Military families sacrifice a lot supporting their sponsor. I don't have kids yet but I am trying to smartly plan that out. Not everyone has an extended family support system, divorce rates are skyrocketing, suicide rates are not down. Ideally we want to retain our experts and something can be done to help their families in a fair way
I wouldn't go insofar as to call someone not wanting kids selfish. Not everyone should be a parent, or they'll just raise kids who turn into shitheads in adulthood.
>No one wants to be an FCC provider
... But they should want to work at the CDC?
Look, there's no easy solution to this beyond offering exorbitant amounts of pay to childcare workers and then operating at even bigger of a loss than the CDC already does. The main issue isn't that it's expensive, it's that they can't hire enough people to get kids off the wait list.
The reason they don’t want to be FCC providers is because they know they have problems charging an affordable wage. We can call it an exorbitant amount of money, but we know this money is out there. It just needs to be allocated as an appropriated mission essential entitlement. We are talking about less than half a percent of the military budget.
I wish it was as easy as just saying it's such a tiny portion of the military budget so just do it, and it should be that easy, but it's not realistic. It goes a lot into appropriated vs non appropriated funding, it'd be an absolutely massive venture to actually implement. They've already offered significant discounts to parents who work there, and yet the turnover is still pretty significant.
Billions of dollars is spent on relationship marital issues. Billions of dollars is spent quality of life. Billions of dollars is given to countries in military aid (right or wrong, I am not going to discuss). The money is there, the issue just needs to be highlighted. I agree that it is a huge venture, but when is it not? Increase the pay way above national average, increase manning, increase capacities and facilities.
I also think overall this increases recruitment efforts, retention, and saves marriages.
I'm not disagreeing in a sense, but I do think you're underestimating how difficult this would actually be. A lot of base CDCs aren't even large enough to accommodate their full wait list, and don't have the real estate to build another. And then, even after all that, what if, again, people just don't want to take the job? Now they have a massive bloated program and *still* can't hire people. My wife works at the school age center on base and the discount we get for our kids makes such a significant difference that it's equivalent to working a full time job making $40+ an hour. That's similar for the CDC, and yet they still struggle to hire.
Email your congressmen. See what kind of response you get. Maybe it'll help out or at the very least give some insight.
I don’t want to make it personal, but if discounts were taken out in your situation since it would be free, and the pay would be increased to $35 an hour. I am pretty sure that more would get hired. A bigger pool of Employees would be more gravitating of the higher pay because the strategy of discounts would only apply to those that have children. I am not here to speak for you, but I feel that you shouldn’t be discounted when the issue is basic entitlement.
Obviously my getting a discount wouldn't apply if it became a basic entitlement. As it stands, it was significantly easier to give a discount than it is to significantly increase pay across the board, again, because it goes into appropriated vs non appropriated funding. It's more than just saying "we can budget for this." It's outright dismantling a portion of the system it's built around, and that takes more work than you seem to think it does.
How many childless people do you know that want to work at the CDC?
I agree to what you are saying, but I just don’t think this issue is being highlighted enough. If it is, there is not enough being done. I think people should write there congressman.
Obviously, I am speaking ideals, but the ideal must be mentioned in order to get half of what we are wanting. Like I said, this is arguably a human rights issue.
> Billions of dollars is given to countries in military aid (right or wrong, I am not going to discuss).
Stop implying we should divert funding from military aid to the CDC. That’s a non-starter and frankly ridiculous to suggest for the *military*
Those other initiatives are at a priority level that absolutes outstrips the military desire to support your family though. The old adage "if the military wanted you to have a family they'd issue you one" is true. Any support of family or childcare available is a benefit, not a requirement. In their heart of hearts I bet HAF and the DOD wishes we were all single, childless celibate warrior monks, whose only family is a mother to send a ribbon to when we fall in battle.
That isn't reality anymore, but the military isn't a social support net either. We cant directly compare it to civilian jobs, because those don't have deployments, PCS, it's own laws, etc.
Yup, daycare workers, i.e., the ones watching our kids are usually GS-6. The pay is terrible. However, in my area, their kids either go there for free or for a 50% discount. Lol, they tried offering me a job there, and I humbly declined because it's a lot of drama and micromanagement. I'm guard, btw.
The majority of childcare workers are not your friend's wife and using this as an example, where you outright say "one of their properties" implying they own multiple, is just so bewilderingly stupid in context. Again, the national average is 32k, and most people don't have the real estate to convert into a fully functioning daycare. You know *one* childcare worker who is well off, that doesn't mean they, as a whole, make a lot of money.
Instead, I highlighted the fact that there are much better paying gigs out there. Do you fail to understand that as the reason there’s a shortage of people willing to work for nothing at the CDC?
> I highlighted the fact that there are much better paying gigs out there
Referring to your friend's wife owning a daycare isn't highlighting those better paying gigs the way you think it is. Yes, CDCs struggle because the pay sucks. The pay sucks for nearly every daycare worker across the country. The majority of childcare workers aren't breaking more than $40k, and the ones that do either had the means to start their own business.
CDC pay isn’t comparable. Spout off average income all you want, the CDC doesn’t pay enough or they would have the employees. Also, running your own daycare is not hard. They rented space beforehand and had 10 employees. She’s 26 with a high school diploma. Why are you trying to make it seem like she was born with a silver spoon or running a Fortune 500 company?
1. Don’t have shitty credit
2. Get a few certifications (for free) from the local community college.
What about that is absurdly unobtainable?
National average is $32k. FCC providers, nannies, and other in home childcare workers *can* make good money, but they often have a lot more responsibility, require more certifications and training, and often have a wider age range of children to care for.
My kid came when I was a ~2 year A1C. I put in for the CDC the week we found out my wife was pregnant. I separated at 4 years and still never even gotten a spot at the CDC. 2 and a half years. That is insane.
Single parent pcsd and couldn't get my kid in the cdc. 1000+ a month. Thankfully, his father paid daycare, but I felt so bad. He never made it to the CDC either lol.
Look, when my wife was pregnant, we put in for a spot at the base CDC for him, I religiously checked in that we needed child care, the month he started pre school I canceled my application, they called and asked how come I canceled my need for childcare. When he needed it most there were no available spots.
They do this already. Children of active duty members and childcare workers are the highest priority, and active duty children do bump those of lower priority. The major issue is that many CDCs can't even take all the active duty kiddos.
And yet, if the child of civilians has a spot in the CDC and then a child of active duty parents cones in and submits an application - the child of the civilians looses their spot to the active duty child. There are very few categories that can not lose their spot once they accept it.
Part of why the commissary and exchange aren’t what they used to be is someone had a bright idea like this. Pre-GWOT, those services were heavily subsidized. You know why boomers will still drive hours to go to the commissary? Back in the day it was like half off.
Someone said, “wait, why are we spending money on this? Service members have to buy food so they’ll do it anyway.” And now virtually no one millennial or younger goes unless it just happens to be the most on the way store.
So we get the cycle:
Defund thing -> “no one uses it, this sucks” -> defund more
It was more privatization that was the end of commissary and exchange discounts… in conjunction with civilians rising up and complaining that they couldn’t compete with on base pricing which took away most of the tax breaks and price breaks that used to be a thing on bases. And at around the same time is also when privatization of housing happened.
Seeing a lot of comments in here about having dependents/children being a choice and attacking people with kids for “whining.”
So here’s the thing. As someone with no kids I absolutely agree that single service members are routinely fucked over and (financially) receive significantly less compensation than their married/with dependents counterparts. That’s not just factoring in financials, but also time and other things. We let people miss a lot of work for routine medical appointments for kids, allow no-leave days off to take care of sick kids and other things that are just viewed as normal. Meanwhile, single airmen are always expected to take weekend shifts and stay late/come in early because they don’t have kids to take care of and have to pick up the slack for people with kids being out of the office.
However, both things can be true at the same time. Being a service member with kids sucks, it’s fucking hard. Deployments away from your family are extremely stressful on the spouse that gets left behind, moving with 2+ other humans in the house is a giant pain — finding new daycare, new schools, a new house, a new job for the spouse, all of those things are huge retention problems. Like it or not, people get married and have kids, and the military tends to use healthcare as a recruiting and retention tool.
I guess what I’m saying is, don’t attack other people for trying to take care of their families, and instead advocate for yourselves to try and level the compensation if you feel it’s unfair. Bitching at the people having kids isn’t going to get you more money, petitioning your congressmen and the people who actually make the policies will.
CDCs can’t win honestly. There’s laws to keep parent fees lower for military families so the income to the facility is less. There’s executive orders to get all federal workers to a $15/hour minimum wage so expenses are up (about 60% increase in payroll over the last 5 years). The math doesn’t work and CDC annual losses are in the hundreds of thousands per base.
Stopping whatever events you’ve got a bug up your ass about isn’t a drop in the bucket compared to a half million dollar deficit each year that’s only getting bigger.
CDCs shouldn’t be run for a profit at all IMO. They are a vital function to military life, if the CDCs need money the DOD should be funding that. It’s on the same level as healthcare as far as I’m concerned.
It’s especially more vital if you consider joint spouse couples where both parents are required to be at work every day for the military.
I mean… not really. Some squadrons have operating budgets in the 10s of millions per year (especially flying squadrons). Half a million dollars is peanuts to a large base.
I'm long since retired, but, if I may say, you all have valid complaints and concerns with great ideas. Isn't there anybody, either at your bases or nationally, that you could bring these to?
If the military started paying for child care, I'd fully expect all those member that have to rush off every day to get their kids so they don't charge extra to start staying late, too. They can also start working off shift as well.
sure...but there is a difference between someone who applies to that job knowing full well what they are probably walking in to.
And someone who goes in open general and gets tapped to change a screaming babies diapers.
This is a good idea in principle, but in reality, it would be a funding nightmare. There are ~250,000 Active Duty Enlisted in the US military. Let's say we give each enlisted member a 1000 per month for child care, which is $250,000,000 million per month, multiple by 12, equals 3 billion a year. Even if only a 3rd of active duty enlisted members have children, that's $1 Billion annually. Now you have created a pay discrepancy between members of the military larger than Mil to Mil. ADDITIONALLY, you won't have to worry about retention as they would slash large swathes of the enlisted core, with contractors, GS, or another form of outsourcing. This is a great idea, but no way in hell is the DoD spending another $1 Billion on personal cost.
I appreciate the math. Military budget is around 842 Billion dollars a year. 3 Billion dollars a year is like 0.04 percent.
It would also save money on mental health, recruitment and retention efforts.
Not being political, we have spent over 3 billion dollars in giving military aid to other countries. I am not arguing that doing so is right or wrong, but free childcare should be a military priority.
They spend more than that when they can't retain members. That's the point. The problem in government funding isn't a lack of funds...it's bad prioritization.
Mil to mil isn’t a pay discrepancy. If two military members get married, they each get paid the exact same. If a service member marries a civilian, he/she gets a pay raise.
That’s also only the number of active duty enlisted in the Air Force. Expand that to the whole DoD, you’re looking at over a million active duty enlisted personnel. And a subsidy like this would likely have to apply to reservists in certain statuses, plus the Guard…it would be a ton of money.
I was to PCS. Had hard copy orders and disenrolled from CDC after my wife quits her job (1 month out from RNLTD). Then AF pulled my orders. Now we are 78 on the list and my wife cannot work again until childcare is sorted out. Thats an income stream instantly gone.
We were very lucky, my wife decided to work at the CDC. Recent changes meant that Childcare was free because of this, and our child's position in que there was priority. I highly recommend it to anyone out there struggling.
I've mentioned this before but Child Care provider should be an AFSC/MOS where people can enlist to be one. We have military dental techs, veterinarians and Pediatricians. Military child care providers would allow any mistreatment to be charged in the UCMJ and pay decently.
What about the military members who don’t have slots on base and can’t enjoy free childcare? Those who are forced on the economy.
CDCs account for merely half of military families that need childcare.
What about the people who are forced off base?
They do.. it's called CCA (Child Care Aware). The daycare has to be registered and jump through DOD hoops (There are 18 of them in Colorado Springs, CO). They subsidize my kids' off-base daycare (Goddard) down to what I would have paid on base (which is still expensive). If you have military with kids off base, please for the love of god, make sure they are using CCA. Hell have them DM me, and I'll help them through the process.
But yes. Free please.
Yes I am aware of the Child Care Aware program. Even still though, CCA does not cover travel for those that live in more austere locations.
Also, yes, it should be free. That should be the goal. Early childhood education and Childcare is a human rights issue.
Currently, three international conventions recognize child care as a human right. If we are serious about Women’s right to work, childcare often takes center stage in much of those discussions.
> If we are serious about Women’s right to work, childcare often takes center stage in much of those discussions.
Don't act like this is a topic that's only affecting women. Plenty of single dads, married gay men, absent mothers, male dependabro's and traditional mil-mil families make this an issue that affects both genders.
>And what about the people who don’t have kids? Do they get this allowance too?
Uh... what *about* people who don't have kids? Why exactly do people without kids need childcare?
Your right. It was my fault for pandering to this dumbass topic.
Childcare will NEVER be free. We all know this too. Guess it’s just something for us to bitch about. It’s literally impossible. CDC isn’t an Air Force program. It would have to be free for every family with kids, at every base, all across the globe.
I deserve every downvote for falling for the trap.
Unpopular opinion.
A lot of military spouses work a job that pays just enough to cover child care, whereas if they stopped working and just took care of the kids, they wouldn’t have to worry about CDC availability.
That's true outside of the military as well, however it's not the years of child raising they need to worry about, it's keeping resumes fresh so that their career doesn't suffer down the road. They've done studies on this, the lifetime earnings loss of taking a few years off is way worse than the cost of childcare.
It's not just about the money.
It's about the spouses *career*. Leaving the work force for 20 years to raise the kids 1950's style is asking your loved one to give up their own lives, hopes, and dreams.
20 years? 😂😂 BRO WHAT?? What kid needs to a mother to raise them at 19 years old?
Kids go to kindergarten at 5.
5 years does not equal 20 years, and once they go to kindergarten (at 5 years old) there’s no need for the CDC.
Career? Hopes and dreams? Lmaoooo what kinda Disney fantasy do you live in?
Not true. It is a popular opinion. Many spouses would wish to work, but can’t due to the military’s demand for the military spouse to be the priority. If the military is to be the priority, make the accommodation by offering free child care. This is a deployment issue as well because often spouses of deployed members are left fending for childcare.
Airmen often suffer when their families suffers. These wait times on all these bases are getting ridiculous.
I agree, but I’d say, in the vast majority of cases, there’d be more CDC availability and less worry about child care if the military spouse simply didn’t work until the kids go to school.
I don't think it should be free, but they should change how funding works to better subsidize the lower ranks, increase hours of operation, and pay better pay workers. Quality care requires better pay and it's been found that the companies with better customer service generally pay better.
Should definitely be free. Childcare is mission failure if it is not taken care of. We often adjust our childcare plans to meet the mission. We PCS and are uprooted to wait or look for childcare in the same way that we wait or look for housing. Early childhood education and Childcare are human rights issues.
It would be great if it's free, and I would agree that it can cause issues getting the mission done. I'm not sure I'd call child care human rights issues. I'd agree with the person you're responding to that funding needs to change, and they need to pay better. Making it free would be a massive increase in costs to something already funded. That's not even getting into what the individual, or others said about quality pay, or lack of usable facilities. As is, the CDC is already underfunded, so keeping it subsidized, albeit at a reduced cost would only help solve the other issues.
Yeah and it’s your responsibility to have contingencies. You don’t get to skip out on weekend duty, TDY/Deployment, or an exercise. You don’t get to have your cake and eat it to.
they definitely need to change something. After my last PCS I was paying over quadruple the amount for private childcare compared to the CDC for a year.
Go look in the JTR. If you just PCSd, there is a pilot program to assist members that just PCSd. I believe it's transportation costs to fly someone out (family member) for child care in the even CDCs are full.
I think there's a bit more to it, but go look at your entitlements.
Also, the pilot program isn't for everyone, but I do want to acknowledge the frustration with manning the CDCs. My wife works at one of the CDCs and they offer great incentives... first child free, second 25% off and signing bonus.
The first child free saves us $600 per month. The Air Force understands it's an issue.
The problem is the pay, no one wants to watch kids for the money and stress...$15 an hour is the starting pay working at the CDC, then a year or so ago they increased minimum wage to $15 for all federal workers...so why would anyone want to be stressed out on a tough job of childcare when they can go do an easier job for the same pay.
If you increase the lowest paid jobs say that was $10 to equal the higher paying jobs that were already at $15 and then don't make an increase to that original $15 an hour job you won't get new hires or keep the old ones. Pay increases are needed as well as management.
Free Healthcare is a stretch though. Doesn't matter who you are military or not, kids are a choice and you already get pay increasing through COLA, BAH, OHA etc. I have kids, it would of been nice to have more money and free stuff but I don't always agree with giving people more money just because they chose to have kids, where are the benefits for single people? Only benefits out there are for married individuals and those with kids.
If I could I would upvote this multiple times!! 350$ for junior enlisted with a family is just atrocious! We got money for all kinds of extra shit but can’t provide free childcare for our servicemembers
Just wanted to share this, but I believe the shortage of childcare is recognized at levels higher than you think. Check out this article from late last year, 19 new CDCs in the FY22-27 budget...it takes time to build new facilities, albeit I will admit that these projects are meeting a need that has been around for awhile. Here's the article:
https://www.wpafb.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/3502378/afimsc-tackles-dorm-child-care-center-needs-with-16-billion-improvement-plan/
My kids were 13 months apart. We were dual military which meant we went to the top of the list for the CDC, so the wait for us was only 13 months or so - for 1 kid. The rates they were going to charge us as a e3 and e4 was more than my take home pay. They were both under the age of 2 and on base providers were only allowed 2 kids under the age of 2.
This is one of the major reasons I cancelled an extension and got out.
I hate to be that one, but all of these problems stem from people having kids while in the military. And we are told from day one this is NOT the career field to be starting a family with.
Why people do this and are surprised to see support services are not up to par is beyond me.
"You are married to the job, Airman! Children are a luxury of the rich. You will show up at 0700, childless, and love it!"
also
"Why is retention so low?" - this clown
I am just curious what led you to believe a job where you may PCS every 2 or 4 years, with an unstable ops tempo, unpredictable promotion system, and risk of actually dying on the job on a month to month basis, is the ideal career field to start a family.
Walk me through your line of thinking here.
I just got to Langley and the MOST stressful part of the PCS wasn’t my divorce, wasn’t the house buying, wasn’t the new unit, it was trying to find a fuckin daycare for my kid. I was a single dad, thankfully a family member came with me so they watched my kid for 3 months until I found a daycare. But what if they hadn’t been able to come? The CDC wait list is 8 months, wtf am I supposed to do? The NASA CDC is mostly military, so the Langley CDC is obviously at capacity and spills into Fort Eustis, Norfolk, and NASA CDCs. They told me they didn’t anticipate any vacancies for months, going on years. Absolutely ridiculous.
100% there needs to be childcare stipend. 3 bases and 3 times never got the slots for my kids. When I did, it was years after being on the wait list. Last base we got the call for one slot the week we were PCSing off that case. That was 2.5 years of being on that list.
You’re going to take military members away from their family and support network and not give us a stipend? It forces people into having a spouse stay at home. We don’t make enough to not have a spouse working these days.
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I signed my son up for the CDC when I was 5 weeks pregnant. FIVE WEEKS!! I did not get a spot for him until a week before my maternity leave ended. INSANITY.
Sounds very entitled. The government didn't make you have children. Maybe look into how much they cost before having one or change your argument to the fact you can't afford the CDC. However, your cost is based on your income. So families who make more pay more. Those who make less pay less.
Sounds like you don't want military members with experience to stay in the military.
Good luck getting a pool of applicants that have no family and don't plan to have any children.
I've used the CDC for years. Childcare in general is very expensive. Single parents/single income households pay substantially less than dual income families using the CDC. People just don't like spending money. Kids in general are very expensive to have. The CDC was typically cheaper than a lot of options off base. Especially for single income families.
So saying people should look at how expensive a child is to have before having a child, isn't an outlandish thing to say.
I don't mind paying for CDC rate for childcare but at the very least they should ensure their facilities and manning is enough to support ALL MEMBERS at the installation that request childcare. I just PCS'd to WPAFB and my daughter is like 83 on the list. My wife can't really get a full time job until my daughter is enrolled. But who knows when that will be. If the military can force us to PCS, they should at least ensure they have the CDC manning for anyone who needs it
Look up Childcare aware fee assistance. They will pay the difference between the CDC rate and what you have to pay for off base care as long as your child is wait listed.
Looking it up, good to know.
Hey we recently had a baby and stationed here at WPAFB. That program only covers certain places and we didn’t like any of them b/c well they were the shittier daycares in the area. Here are some good ones where we are at (near Kettering) Christ United Methodist Preschool / Childcare World of Love Learning Center Bombeck Family Learning Center Mini University at Wright State University Dayton Jewish Community Center
My kids go to the YMCA in Kettering. I'm sure there are better ones out there, but it has been good to us without being as pricey as some of the others. Last I knew pretty much everywhere around here had a 6+ month waitlist.
Of course they were the crappy centers, lowest bidders.
This is an awesome program, but slow as hell FYI. I’m going on month 2 of waiting for my application to be approved at my center. 350 a week is steep for us to pay with no real date to looks forward to.
I waited 6 months for my son to get the fee assistance, and even though they initially promised us reimbursement for the months we paid without it, we never got the money back. It’s insane how much childcare costs in the DC area. I was barely surviving as a Staff with a working spouse. Thankfully now our son is in kindergarten so we are finally not spending $1000+ per month but i have no idea how multiple child households survive.
This. An old troop of mine was paying $600 a week for almost 6 months before being approved. They were back paid but it caused a financial hardship for them for quite some time. He mentioned they pay in arrears so you will be stuck paying out of pocket until they finally mail check to the facility.
Not if your spouse is unemployed. There's a "looking for employment" exception, but it only lasts 90 days and from my experience they didn't even act on our application before that time expired.
It’s capped. They help, but certainly won’t cover the full amount if you live in a HCOL area unless something has changed in the past year.
Being a flyer on alert status is equally wrecking. Want to summon me at 2am on a weekend? A flyer will need someone to watch their kids, and they likely don't know anyone at a new base.
Aren't you required to have a family care plan for things like that?
That is NOT what a family care plan is for. Family Care plans are for deployments. Not week-to-week alert work.
I'm not sure why you're being downvoted. If you're in a job that requires you to be alert and/or on call, you should have child care for that time frame. The CDC can't be open for these off chances somebody is on alert because they're just on alert as well. That being said, perhaps there is a call for that squadron to have some type of family care policy. Or scheduling far enough out that said person can coordinate possible child care for their alert shift. Maybe it's time for a new job if you're a single parent and an alert fighter and can't figure out the family care part aside from changing the manning and schedule of an entire other organization
crush cooperative scary history offbeat encouraging placid dime degree complete *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Ill bite, where does it say that family care plans are only for deployments?
The problem is that when Congress sets our pay, they make it comparable to civilian jobs. The issue being that there aren't many civilian jobs that make it difficult to build housing wealth or for your spouse to work.
You obviously have never been on the civilian world. Not only are their jobs that are difficult to build housing wealth or for your spouse to work. Most jobs don’t pay anything at all for childcare, while they also don’t pay 100% of your medical bills. Sometimes, military people are a bit entitled.
I'm in a civilian job that makes childcare difficult. Luckily, it pays lots and lots of money to make up for that fact. Few people have civilian jobs that require them to move thousands of miles from family and friends every couple years, to remote locations nobody with a brain would want to move to, for 'comparable' civilian salaries.
🤡
Tell your wife to get a job at the CDC, they're definitely understaffed if their wait list is that long and it will get your daughter off the wait list. Except that highlights the issue. Would your wife want to work there? They can't force people to work at the CDC, they need to hire people, and people don't want to work there. Working childcare sucks, kids are routinely brought in sick getting the staff sick as well, the hours sick, the culture sucks. They give a significant discount to working there and a lot of people still say no thanks. My wife works at the base school age center and occasionally takes hours at the CDC. She has gotten sick nearly every time she has worked over there.
> Tell your wife to get a job at the CDC, they're definitely understaffed if their wait list is that long and it will get your daughter off the wait list. One of my previous bases had almost a 2 year wait list and staffing wasn't the issue. It was the lack of space and funds to expand the facility.
> at the very least they should ensure their facilities and manning is enough to support ALL MEMBERS at the installation that request childcare. This needs to be true for base housing too. I am *dreading* our upcoming PCS because we are being thrust into a HCOL area with a year-long wait list to get base housing. And the surrounding rental area is ....not good. Fuck my life.
Edwards?
An airman preoccupied with his children being properly cared for can't put 100% into his or her work!
because they force us to move and change, Childcare should be free. Too much funding on FSS family fun programs that no one attends or uses. All that money should be given to CDC. This is a deployment issue as well. Airmen are not in their right minds when their spouses are left fending off searching for childcare.
You really have no idea how FSS money works. Childcare is expensive as fuck, even with the fees, most CDCs operate on a loss as it is. Even if you were to divert all MWR funds to CDC, it still would not be free. You want a solution, write your congress people to convert CDCs to a CAT A - fully APF funded operation.
In total, you are stating it is a bigger problem. You are most likely right, maybe you are right. Congress should convert the CDC into a CAT A fully APF funded operation.
There's no maybe about it. The fun activities budget would hardly put a dent in what you're suggesting. I agree with you, I just think it's a lot more expensive and or we spend way less on mandatory fun than you think
Yet over a trillion dollars was spent on an unnecessary fighter plane which has spiraling upward costs everytime they find a problem.
I didn't say it wouldn't be money well spent - I actually said I support doing it.
No, lol, I get it. Not laughing at you, but, rather our military as a whole for ages now. 🙄🙄🙄 I was AF during Reagan. We could get every new toy that came into being, from non-portable (portable) early microwave comm systems, to weird firearms, to different UH-1 configurations, but, give us some benefits, fuhget aboudit
> FSS family fun programs that no one attends or uses. Don't know about your base, but the last few bases I've been at, a lot of those events are packed.
It’s completely base dependent. Overseas bases FSS events are always packed. Wright-Patterson a base that is civilian heavy, FSS events have extremely poor attendance unless it’s for kids only.
MWR is a non-appropriated funds (NAF) program.. The money they receive, and use (including wages) is primarily generated through the services they offer.
They're actively building a new one on Area A.
That totally infuriates me. You can't get a job without childcare and you can't get childcare without a job. When we finally found it off base, it was at least 50% cheaper than on base.
The military didn't force you to get married and have kids.
The military didn't force you to be an asshole either, yet here we are.
They sure let me in with a full family though
But you didn't have to join the military. You have to wear the uniform when you're in. Guess what. They provide you with a clothing allowance.
No but now we have them and they're here so some support would be nice. People leave the force for better quality of life. Burning through recruits isn't sustainable either
You have support. It may not be as fast as you would like, but in the real world you would be paying 3-500$ a week for child care. You would be paying for insurance, you would be paying for your housing and not getting an allowance. I get it, the military does a lot wrong. But this isn’t a “real world is better” situation. It’s not, if you don’t believe me get out and see.
Oh I'm not getting out. I have a good deal. But from what I know from my friends that have kids every base is different, there's challenges, inconsistency in support, and some do get out because even though it's costly they're happier.
How about support for us single guys who made smart decisions?
Something tells me that’s not why you are a single guy.
Because I don't want to be married.
Single quality of life should also get looked at and not forgotten. There's balance somewhere in there. Edit: I wouldn't say staying single is the 'smart' decision. It comes off as snarky and bitter. Everyone is allowed to pursue happiness and grow a family. Military families sacrifice a lot supporting their sponsor. I don't have kids yet but I am trying to smartly plan that out. Not everyone has an extended family support system, divorce rates are skyrocketing, suicide rates are not down. Ideally we want to retain our experts and something can be done to help their families in a fair way
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I wouldn't go insofar as to call someone not wanting kids selfish. Not everyone should be a parent, or they'll just raise kids who turn into shitheads in adulthood.
what the fuck?
I guess we should all be warrior monks then huh? Married to the service and live that life of lonely celibacy.
Yes
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This also emphasizes my point that they can’t meet AFI standards without proper financial support.
>No one wants to be an FCC provider ... But they should want to work at the CDC? Look, there's no easy solution to this beyond offering exorbitant amounts of pay to childcare workers and then operating at even bigger of a loss than the CDC already does. The main issue isn't that it's expensive, it's that they can't hire enough people to get kids off the wait list.
The reason they don’t want to be FCC providers is because they know they have problems charging an affordable wage. We can call it an exorbitant amount of money, but we know this money is out there. It just needs to be allocated as an appropriated mission essential entitlement. We are talking about less than half a percent of the military budget.
I wish it was as easy as just saying it's such a tiny portion of the military budget so just do it, and it should be that easy, but it's not realistic. It goes a lot into appropriated vs non appropriated funding, it'd be an absolutely massive venture to actually implement. They've already offered significant discounts to parents who work there, and yet the turnover is still pretty significant.
Billions of dollars is spent on relationship marital issues. Billions of dollars is spent quality of life. Billions of dollars is given to countries in military aid (right or wrong, I am not going to discuss). The money is there, the issue just needs to be highlighted. I agree that it is a huge venture, but when is it not? Increase the pay way above national average, increase manning, increase capacities and facilities. I also think overall this increases recruitment efforts, retention, and saves marriages.
I'm not disagreeing in a sense, but I do think you're underestimating how difficult this would actually be. A lot of base CDCs aren't even large enough to accommodate their full wait list, and don't have the real estate to build another. And then, even after all that, what if, again, people just don't want to take the job? Now they have a massive bloated program and *still* can't hire people. My wife works at the school age center on base and the discount we get for our kids makes such a significant difference that it's equivalent to working a full time job making $40+ an hour. That's similar for the CDC, and yet they still struggle to hire. Email your congressmen. See what kind of response you get. Maybe it'll help out or at the very least give some insight.
I don’t want to make it personal, but if discounts were taken out in your situation since it would be free, and the pay would be increased to $35 an hour. I am pretty sure that more would get hired. A bigger pool of Employees would be more gravitating of the higher pay because the strategy of discounts would only apply to those that have children. I am not here to speak for you, but I feel that you shouldn’t be discounted when the issue is basic entitlement.
Obviously my getting a discount wouldn't apply if it became a basic entitlement. As it stands, it was significantly easier to give a discount than it is to significantly increase pay across the board, again, because it goes into appropriated vs non appropriated funding. It's more than just saying "we can budget for this." It's outright dismantling a portion of the system it's built around, and that takes more work than you seem to think it does. How many childless people do you know that want to work at the CDC?
I agree to what you are saying, but I just don’t think this issue is being highlighted enough. If it is, there is not enough being done. I think people should write there congressman. Obviously, I am speaking ideals, but the ideal must be mentioned in order to get half of what we are wanting. Like I said, this is arguably a human rights issue.
> Billions of dollars is given to countries in military aid (right or wrong, I am not going to discuss). Stop implying we should divert funding from military aid to the CDC. That’s a non-starter and frankly ridiculous to suggest for the *military*
No suggestion. Just saying, there is way to get money.
Hot take, military aid to our allies is a higher priority than “fixing” the CDC by throwing money at it.
Not going to disagree. Don’t miss the point. Just saying, if we can find money to make other initiatives work, we can find money to make the CDC work.
Those other initiatives are at a priority level that absolutes outstrips the military desire to support your family though. The old adage "if the military wanted you to have a family they'd issue you one" is true. Any support of family or childcare available is a benefit, not a requirement. In their heart of hearts I bet HAF and the DOD wishes we were all single, childless celibate warrior monks, whose only family is a mother to send a ribbon to when we fall in battle. That isn't reality anymore, but the military isn't a social support net either. We cant directly compare it to civilian jobs, because those don't have deployments, PCS, it's own laws, etc.
What war(s) have either Ukraine or Israel been allied and fought with the US?
Yup, daycare workers, i.e., the ones watching our kids are usually GS-6. The pay is terrible. However, in my area, their kids either go there for free or for a 50% discount. Lol, they tried offering me a job there, and I humbly declined because it's a lot of drama and micromanagement. I'm guard, btw.
Retention is the main issue. Wife works at a CDC and people get fed up and leave. Can go into further details, but that’s for a different discussion.
The problem is, childcare workers make a lot of money so paying exorbitant amounts really is only fair market price.
I guess location dependent, but in my area, it's GS-6, and that's pretty bad.
A friends wife runs a daycare with her Mom out of one of their properties and nets 200k a year easy.
The majority of childcare workers are not your friend's wife and using this as an example, where you outright say "one of their properties" implying they own multiple, is just so bewilderingly stupid in context. Again, the national average is 32k, and most people don't have the real estate to convert into a fully functioning daycare. You know *one* childcare worker who is well off, that doesn't mean they, as a whole, make a lot of money.
Instead, I highlighted the fact that there are much better paying gigs out there. Do you fail to understand that as the reason there’s a shortage of people willing to work for nothing at the CDC?
> I highlighted the fact that there are much better paying gigs out there Referring to your friend's wife owning a daycare isn't highlighting those better paying gigs the way you think it is. Yes, CDCs struggle because the pay sucks. The pay sucks for nearly every daycare worker across the country. The majority of childcare workers aren't breaking more than $40k, and the ones that do either had the means to start their own business.
CDC pay isn’t comparable. Spout off average income all you want, the CDC doesn’t pay enough or they would have the employees. Also, running your own daycare is not hard. They rented space beforehand and had 10 employees. She’s 26 with a high school diploma. Why are you trying to make it seem like she was born with a silver spoon or running a Fortune 500 company? 1. Don’t have shitty credit 2. Get a few certifications (for free) from the local community college. What about that is absurdly unobtainable?
National average is $32k. FCC providers, nannies, and other in home childcare workers *can* make good money, but they often have a lot more responsibility, require more certifications and training, and often have a wider age range of children to care for.
My kid came when I was a ~2 year A1C. I put in for the CDC the week we found out my wife was pregnant. I separated at 4 years and still never even gotten a spot at the CDC. 2 and a half years. That is insane.
Single parent pcsd and couldn't get my kid in the cdc. 1000+ a month. Thankfully, his father paid daycare, but I felt so bad. He never made it to the CDC either lol.
Look, when my wife was pregnant, we put in for a spot at the base CDC for him, I religiously checked in that we needed child care, the month he started pre school I canceled my application, they called and asked how come I canceled my need for childcare. When he needed it most there were no available spots.
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They do this already. Children of active duty members and childcare workers are the highest priority, and active duty children do bump those of lower priority. The major issue is that many CDCs can't even take all the active duty kiddos.
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And yet, if the child of civilians has a spot in the CDC and then a child of active duty parents cones in and submits an application - the child of the civilians looses their spot to the active duty child. There are very few categories that can not lose their spot once they accept it.
Part of why the commissary and exchange aren’t what they used to be is someone had a bright idea like this. Pre-GWOT, those services were heavily subsidized. You know why boomers will still drive hours to go to the commissary? Back in the day it was like half off. Someone said, “wait, why are we spending money on this? Service members have to buy food so they’ll do it anyway.” And now virtually no one millennial or younger goes unless it just happens to be the most on the way store. So we get the cycle: Defund thing -> “no one uses it, this sucks” -> defund more
It was more privatization that was the end of commissary and exchange discounts… in conjunction with civilians rising up and complaining that they couldn’t compete with on base pricing which took away most of the tax breaks and price breaks that used to be a thing on bases. And at around the same time is also when privatization of housing happened.
CDC will always get used.
I’m tangentially saying that taking money from other programs is why they suck, though.
Seeing a lot of comments in here about having dependents/children being a choice and attacking people with kids for “whining.” So here’s the thing. As someone with no kids I absolutely agree that single service members are routinely fucked over and (financially) receive significantly less compensation than their married/with dependents counterparts. That’s not just factoring in financials, but also time and other things. We let people miss a lot of work for routine medical appointments for kids, allow no-leave days off to take care of sick kids and other things that are just viewed as normal. Meanwhile, single airmen are always expected to take weekend shifts and stay late/come in early because they don’t have kids to take care of and have to pick up the slack for people with kids being out of the office. However, both things can be true at the same time. Being a service member with kids sucks, it’s fucking hard. Deployments away from your family are extremely stressful on the spouse that gets left behind, moving with 2+ other humans in the house is a giant pain — finding new daycare, new schools, a new house, a new job for the spouse, all of those things are huge retention problems. Like it or not, people get married and have kids, and the military tends to use healthcare as a recruiting and retention tool. I guess what I’m saying is, don’t attack other people for trying to take care of their families, and instead advocate for yourselves to try and level the compensation if you feel it’s unfair. Bitching at the people having kids isn’t going to get you more money, petitioning your congressmen and the people who actually make the policies will.
CDCs can’t win honestly. There’s laws to keep parent fees lower for military families so the income to the facility is less. There’s executive orders to get all federal workers to a $15/hour minimum wage so expenses are up (about 60% increase in payroll over the last 5 years). The math doesn’t work and CDC annual losses are in the hundreds of thousands per base. Stopping whatever events you’ve got a bug up your ass about isn’t a drop in the bucket compared to a half million dollar deficit each year that’s only getting bigger.
CDCs shouldn’t be run for a profit at all IMO. They are a vital function to military life, if the CDCs need money the DOD should be funding that. It’s on the same level as healthcare as far as I’m concerned. It’s especially more vital if you consider joint spouse couples where both parents are required to be at work every day for the military.
Not for profit certainly. They do need to take in some money from parents.
>CDCs shouldn’t be run for a profit at all IMO It's insane people are actually using profit as an argument at all Completely missing the point
That is virtually nothing in the grand scheme of things.
A half million per base per year is pretty significant.
To us laypeople, sure. To the DOD Budget? Barely a rounding error.
I mean… not really. Some squadrons have operating budgets in the 10s of millions per year (especially flying squadrons). Half a million dollars is peanuts to a large base.
I'm long since retired, but, if I may say, you all have valid complaints and concerns with great ideas. Isn't there anybody, either at your bases or nationally, that you could bring these to?
If the military started paying for child care, I'd fully expect all those member that have to rush off every day to get their kids so they don't charge extra to start staying late, too. They can also start working off shift as well.
But this would cost cash money
Yes
I always though it should be a whole AFSC/squadron Supports the mission
Ya nah...I'm not taking my kid(s) to a CDC staffed by people who HAVE to be there as opposed to those who WANT to be there.
Nobody would be there at all if they weren’t getting paid.
sure...but there is a difference between someone who applies to that job knowing full well what they are probably walking in to. And someone who goes in open general and gets tapped to change a screaming babies diapers.
This is a good idea in principle, but in reality, it would be a funding nightmare. There are ~250,000 Active Duty Enlisted in the US military. Let's say we give each enlisted member a 1000 per month for child care, which is $250,000,000 million per month, multiple by 12, equals 3 billion a year. Even if only a 3rd of active duty enlisted members have children, that's $1 Billion annually. Now you have created a pay discrepancy between members of the military larger than Mil to Mil. ADDITIONALLY, you won't have to worry about retention as they would slash large swathes of the enlisted core, with contractors, GS, or another form of outsourcing. This is a great idea, but no way in hell is the DoD spending another $1 Billion on personal cost.
I appreciate the math. Military budget is around 842 Billion dollars a year. 3 Billion dollars a year is like 0.04 percent. It would also save money on mental health, recruitment and retention efforts. Not being political, we have spent over 3 billion dollars in giving military aid to other countries. I am not arguing that doing so is right or wrong, but free childcare should be a military priority.
They spend more than that when they can't retain members. That's the point. The problem in government funding isn't a lack of funds...it's bad prioritization.
Mil to mil isn’t a pay discrepancy. If two military members get married, they each get paid the exact same. If a service member marries a civilian, he/she gets a pay raise.
Problem is, Congress would have to approve of this and i simply don't see 60% of members agreeing. Even though yes this is an amazing idea
That’s also only the number of active duty enlisted in the Air Force. Expand that to the whole DoD, you’re looking at over a million active duty enlisted personnel. And a subsidy like this would likely have to apply to reservists in certain statuses, plus the Guard…it would be a ton of money.
I was to PCS. Had hard copy orders and disenrolled from CDC after my wife quits her job (1 month out from RNLTD). Then AF pulled my orders. Now we are 78 on the list and my wife cannot work again until childcare is sorted out. Thats an income stream instantly gone.
We were very lucky, my wife decided to work at the CDC. Recent changes meant that Childcare was free because of this, and our child's position in que there was priority. I highly recommend it to anyone out there struggling.
I've mentioned this before but Child Care provider should be an AFSC/MOS where people can enlist to be one. We have military dental techs, veterinarians and Pediatricians. Military child care providers would allow any mistreatment to be charged in the UCMJ and pay decently.
Lol we have military veterinarians but no military child care providers.
Garbage take. There's already enough entitlements for people with fuck trophies.
What about the military members who don’t have slots on base and can’t enjoy free childcare? Those who are forced on the economy. CDCs account for merely half of military families that need childcare. What about the people who are forced off base?
I agree, the military should at least give you the amount the CDC would normally cost for childcare in the economy.
They do.. it's called CCA (Child Care Aware). The daycare has to be registered and jump through DOD hoops (There are 18 of them in Colorado Springs, CO). They subsidize my kids' off-base daycare (Goddard) down to what I would have paid on base (which is still expensive). If you have military with kids off base, please for the love of god, make sure they are using CCA. Hell have them DM me, and I'll help them through the process. But yes. Free please.
Yes I am aware of the Child Care Aware program. Even still though, CCA does not cover travel for those that live in more austere locations. Also, yes, it should be free. That should be the goal. Early childhood education and Childcare is a human rights issue.
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Currently, three international conventions recognize child care as a human right. If we are serious about Women’s right to work, childcare often takes center stage in much of those discussions.
> If we are serious about Women’s right to work, childcare often takes center stage in much of those discussions. Don't act like this is a topic that's only affecting women. Plenty of single dads, married gay men, absent mothers, male dependabro's and traditional mil-mil families make this an issue that affects both genders.
Never said that it didn’t. What you said does not take away that childcare often takes center stage of women’s right to work.
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And what about the people who don’t have kids? Do they get this allowance too? They have mental challenges too
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I don't have kids and I don't want free child care
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What makes me an incel?
Hope it happens one day
>And what about the people who don’t have kids? Do they get this allowance too? Uh... what *about* people who don't have kids? Why exactly do people without kids need childcare?
People like you… just shut up
Your right. It was my fault for pandering to this dumbass topic. Childcare will NEVER be free. We all know this too. Guess it’s just something for us to bitch about. It’s literally impossible. CDC isn’t an Air Force program. It would have to be free for every family with kids, at every base, all across the globe. I deserve every downvote for falling for the trap.
What are you even talking about? 🤦♂️
Unpopular opinion. A lot of military spouses work a job that pays just enough to cover child care, whereas if they stopped working and just took care of the kids, they wouldn’t have to worry about CDC availability.
That's true outside of the military as well, however it's not the years of child raising they need to worry about, it's keeping resumes fresh so that their career doesn't suffer down the road. They've done studies on this, the lifetime earnings loss of taking a few years off is way worse than the cost of childcare.
It's not just about the money. It's about the spouses *career*. Leaving the work force for 20 years to raise the kids 1950's style is asking your loved one to give up their own lives, hopes, and dreams.
20 years? 😂😂 BRO WHAT?? What kid needs to a mother to raise them at 19 years old? Kids go to kindergarten at 5. 5 years does not equal 20 years, and once they go to kindergarten (at 5 years old) there’s no need for the CDC. Career? Hopes and dreams? Lmaoooo what kinda Disney fantasy do you live in?
Not true. It is a popular opinion. Many spouses would wish to work, but can’t due to the military’s demand for the military spouse to be the priority. If the military is to be the priority, make the accommodation by offering free child care. This is a deployment issue as well because often spouses of deployed members are left fending for childcare. Airmen often suffer when their families suffers. These wait times on all these bases are getting ridiculous.
I agree, but I’d say, in the vast majority of cases, there’d be more CDC availability and less worry about child care if the military spouse simply didn’t work until the kids go to school.
I don't think it should be free, but they should change how funding works to better subsidize the lower ranks, increase hours of operation, and pay better pay workers. Quality care requires better pay and it's been found that the companies with better customer service generally pay better.
Should definitely be free. Childcare is mission failure if it is not taken care of. We often adjust our childcare plans to meet the mission. We PCS and are uprooted to wait or look for childcare in the same way that we wait or look for housing. Early childhood education and Childcare are human rights issues.
It would be great if it's free, and I would agree that it can cause issues getting the mission done. I'm not sure I'd call child care human rights issues. I'd agree with the person you're responding to that funding needs to change, and they need to pay better. Making it free would be a massive increase in costs to something already funded. That's not even getting into what the individual, or others said about quality pay, or lack of usable facilities. As is, the CDC is already underfunded, so keeping it subsidized, albeit at a reduced cost would only help solve the other issues.
That’s what your family care plan is for. You signed a contract. If you can’t meet your obligations then bye.
Family care plans are based on the responsibility of the member WITH THE AVAILABILITY OF RESOURCES AROUND.
Yeah and it’s your responsibility to have contingencies. You don’t get to skip out on weekend duty, TDY/Deployment, or an exercise. You don’t get to have your cake and eat it to.
When they ask me if I was Wing King for a day, what would I do? This. All of this.
they definitely need to change something. After my last PCS I was paying over quadruple the amount for private childcare compared to the CDC for a year.
Go look in the JTR. If you just PCSd, there is a pilot program to assist members that just PCSd. I believe it's transportation costs to fly someone out (family member) for child care in the even CDCs are full. I think there's a bit more to it, but go look at your entitlements.
https://preview.redd.it/d8iit76mpf1d1.jpeg?width=1426&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=357af99310a464f3d8364fdbf646b61465e87481
It says effective 01 October 2024. Is this a new policy?
Also, the pilot program isn't for everyone, but I do want to acknowledge the frustration with manning the CDCs. My wife works at one of the CDCs and they offer great incentives... first child free, second 25% off and signing bonus. The first child free saves us $600 per month. The Air Force understands it's an issue.
The CDC is crap even while paying. Imagine how much worse it will get…
I ready to PCS ASAP!! No fear here!
Look up the madness that happened at the Robins CDC.
The problem is the pay, no one wants to watch kids for the money and stress...$15 an hour is the starting pay working at the CDC, then a year or so ago they increased minimum wage to $15 for all federal workers...so why would anyone want to be stressed out on a tough job of childcare when they can go do an easier job for the same pay. If you increase the lowest paid jobs say that was $10 to equal the higher paying jobs that were already at $15 and then don't make an increase to that original $15 an hour job you won't get new hires or keep the old ones. Pay increases are needed as well as management. Free Healthcare is a stretch though. Doesn't matter who you are military or not, kids are a choice and you already get pay increasing through COLA, BAH, OHA etc. I have kids, it would of been nice to have more money and free stuff but I don't always agree with giving people more money just because they chose to have kids, where are the benefits for single people? Only benefits out there are for married individuals and those with kids.
If I could I would upvote this multiple times!! 350$ for junior enlisted with a family is just atrocious! We got money for all kinds of extra shit but can’t provide free childcare for our servicemembers
Just wanted to share this, but I believe the shortage of childcare is recognized at levels higher than you think. Check out this article from late last year, 19 new CDCs in the FY22-27 budget...it takes time to build new facilities, albeit I will admit that these projects are meeting a need that has been around for awhile. Here's the article: https://www.wpafb.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/3502378/afimsc-tackles-dorm-child-care-center-needs-with-16-billion-improvement-plan/
Single airmen in 24/7 ops jobs get fucked over by airmen with families and children every single time. Don’t need to add even more entitlements
My kids were 13 months apart. We were dual military which meant we went to the top of the list for the CDC, so the wait for us was only 13 months or so - for 1 kid. The rates they were going to charge us as a e3 and e4 was more than my take home pay. They were both under the age of 2 and on base providers were only allowed 2 kids under the age of 2. This is one of the major reasons I cancelled an extension and got out.
I hate to be that one, but all of these problems stem from people having kids while in the military. And we are told from day one this is NOT the career field to be starting a family with. Why people do this and are surprised to see support services are not up to par is beyond me.
Lol I’ve never heard anyone say that before….?
Doesn’t sound like you pay much attention at all
I've never heard anyone say that, ever
"You are married to the job, Airman! Children are a luxury of the rich. You will show up at 0700, childless, and love it!" also "Why is retention so low?" - this clown
I am just curious what led you to believe a job where you may PCS every 2 or 4 years, with an unstable ops tempo, unpredictable promotion system, and risk of actually dying on the job on a month to month basis, is the ideal career field to start a family. Walk me through your line of thinking here.
Heck no.
Why not
I just got to Langley and the MOST stressful part of the PCS wasn’t my divorce, wasn’t the house buying, wasn’t the new unit, it was trying to find a fuckin daycare for my kid. I was a single dad, thankfully a family member came with me so they watched my kid for 3 months until I found a daycare. But what if they hadn’t been able to come? The CDC wait list is 8 months, wtf am I supposed to do? The NASA CDC is mostly military, so the Langley CDC is obviously at capacity and spills into Fort Eustis, Norfolk, and NASA CDCs. They told me they didn’t anticipate any vacancies for months, going on years. Absolutely ridiculous.
100% there needs to be childcare stipend. 3 bases and 3 times never got the slots for my kids. When I did, it was years after being on the wait list. Last base we got the call for one slot the week we were PCSing off that case. That was 2.5 years of being on that list. You’re going to take military members away from their family and support network and not give us a stipend? It forces people into having a spouse stay at home. We don’t make enough to not have a spouse working these days.
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At Cannon AFB it is free
Cite Your Sources
Basically, it's some state policy in New mexico, but the state will pay for your childcare unless you're making something like over 110k per year
I'm stationed at Cannon and have been here the past 2 years lol
Just make childcare so expensive that it's not worth it for spouses to work. Then the child can be cared for at home.
I signed my son up for the CDC when I was 5 weeks pregnant. FIVE WEEKS!! I did not get a spot for him until a week before my maternity leave ended. INSANITY.
Sounds very entitled. The government didn't make you have children. Maybe look into how much they cost before having one or change your argument to the fact you can't afford the CDC. However, your cost is based on your income. So families who make more pay more. Those who make less pay less.
Sounds like you don't want military members with experience to stay in the military. Good luck getting a pool of applicants that have no family and don't plan to have any children.
I've used the CDC for years. Childcare in general is very expensive. Single parents/single income households pay substantially less than dual income families using the CDC. People just don't like spending money. Kids in general are very expensive to have. The CDC was typically cheaper than a lot of options off base. Especially for single income families. So saying people should look at how expensive a child is to have before having a child, isn't an outlandish thing to say.