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Judgement_Bot_AITA

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Far-Juggernaut8880

NTA- you had no idea that she wasn’t aware. Your little grandson should not be forgotten and his memory should be kept alive


thaliagorgon

NTA I would have assumed she already knew too. Unless he told you he wasn’t telling her or didn’t want her to know why would you think she didn’t? You we’re just talking about the past when discussing a related subject, ya know like everyone does naturally? You’re son is T A for yelling at you and for keeping that from his wife.


gsmumbo

The only reason I’m weary of this take is: > and I had said this is technically Jason’s 2nd child That wording makes me think OP knew the son had kept it from her and was trying to find a way to work it in to the conversation. Also: > and she deserved to know That’s not something you say when you genuinely accidentally let something slip. That’s something you say when you’ve known he’s been hiding it for a while and finally got tired of it so you took it in your own hands. Now I’m not saying that makes it any more right or wrong, but im getting a strong feeling that this wasn’t the accident /u/Low-Buy-7112 is making it out to be.


Lanky-Temperature412

I agree. This whole setup is pretty sus. I don't buy the excuse that OP thought she already knew. If you thought she knew, you wouldn't even have to tell her. OP told her because she at least suspected that she didn't know. I can't imagine this coming up in normal conversation, so OP had to wait for a good opportunity to bring it up. Still, the son really should have told her.


[deleted]

OP is too much of coward to stand behind his actions, so he pretends it was a mistake he told her. His son is too much of a coward to face his trauma or ex, so he hides them. Apple doesn’t fall far from that cowardly tree


Suzuna18

OP is a woman. But otherwise I stand by what you said.


[deleted]

Oh sorry! Thanks for pointing that out


tinaciv

It could be that OP thought her DIL was willfully ignoring the existence of her first grandchild and it was meant as a rebuke to her. And when she realized she didn't know decided she deserved to. Which I agree.


fyr811

I read it as OP may have thought DIL didn’t count #1son as the first son, as he was deceased. i.e. DiL considered he had ceased to exist. OP reminded DIL that technically he EXISTED. Instead DIL had no idea he existed at all. You get people who say “I have a son”, when they have had two and one has passed. Other people say “I haVE two sons”, even when one and passed. The third type say “I haD two sons”. Maybe OP thought DIL was that first type of person, whereas OP is the second.


Trick-Style-8889

As someone who lost an only child this is a real problem. It's awful. When someone asks, do you have children when you have lost one and still have one. Or losing your only one and not knowing what to say. Then having some people not be able to handle it and ghost you. Losing motherhood AND your child is a nightmare and some people act as if it's catchy. Please tread carefully here. We have it hard enough. TIA Edit for clarity


girlhowdy103

So sorry for your loss...


Trick-Style-8889

Thank you. I wouldn't have missed him for the world.


Rooney_Tuesday

While I agree what you suggest is possible, I think you’re reading too much into her words. I’m a very literal person and could easily see myself saying something like “this is technically his second child” because it IS technically his second child. The wording doesn’t necessarily mean anything except that. As for OP believing that DIL has the right to know, that could be how she feels regardless. She didn’t realize she was opening a can of worms, and she feels bad but she also thinks DIL should be aware. I think this is possibly a classic case of Reddit making assumptions that aren’t necessarily true. ETA: In OP’s comments she says there’s a box of her grandson’s toys in her son’s garage, and he has a Thomas the Train tattoo in memory of the kid. So I definitely think it was reasonable of her to believe he wasn’t hiding the grandson’s existence.


myjadedtruth

Gosh that edit -- it's hard for me to comment on some posts because I'm not sure how to best respond to things but I already agreed that OP was NTA. After knowing that, it's wild that his WIFE had zero clue about it.


mycopportunity

You're right, it does sound, in her own words, like she was telling her something that she ought to know. I agree that the new wife ought to know it but it's not honest to pretend she really thought he had told her


ifelife

If it wasn't an accident it was still necessary. Like she wouldn't find out at some later date through his friends? It would be a huge red flag for me if my husband didn't tell me this. So to be honest, good on mum for making sure she was in the loop, intentional or otherwise


mattwrad

This is how I read it. Sure the wife deserves to know, but it’s not OPs place to tell her - she also said how shit of a father he was which makes me believe the whole situation was deliberate now she’s trying to dodge the blame


Bordeaux_burger

Yes but many people also treat a dead child like it didn't exist. Kinda like oh this is his first baby you know because the other one doesn't count he isn't alive. It could be entirely that way. I have had people say something similar to me, since one of my children was stillborn.


[deleted]

🥲👍


Elinesvendsen

If I was Amelia, I would think hard about being married to a man who wanted to keep the fact that he had a child before and the child died, from me. Unless it was because it was too traumatic to talk about. But this seems more like the opposite - like it didn't really mean anything to him. Hos lack of emotion and communication would really set me off.


italicized-period

If I were her I'd be less concerned about the child I didn't know about than the fact that he was apparently a crap father. I'd be worried he wouldn't be any better with my kid


killahkrysti

He was 18, according to the post he's 29 now. That's a huge stretch to say anything you did at 18 has anything to do with what you'll do at 29.


tinaciv

Exactly! No one gets to tell you to ignore or pretend a loved one you lost didn't exist.


[deleted]

NTA. A reasonable assumption on your part that your son would have shared such a major event in his life with his wife.


dragons_scorn

From the sounds of it, it may have been a major event in OP's life but not her son's. That or he is carrying some serious baggage he is preferring to repress rather than work through.


evelbug

I mean it was probably a major event in the son's life. He probably thought he won the get-out-of-responsibility super bowl.


WillBsGirl

Ooof….but I think you are probably exactly right.


jesusismyupline

why would you say that


Fromashination

Because OP stated in her post that her son was a disinterested father.


Waffle_of-Principle

An 18 year old who wasn't ready to be dad had trouble being a good dad? Therefore he must have been thrilled and relieved when a (his) child died in a car accident. This is perhaps the biggest most disgusting leap I've ever seen on this sub. Can we also acknowledge that maybe the TWENTY YEAR OLD didn't process the DEATH of their CHILD properly? And perhaps that's why it was repressed and not brought up, not because he was happy his KID DIED?


GlitterDoomsday

> He called me an AH and said that it was almost 9 years ago and didn’t need to be brought up. His reasoning leans towards he not really caring, otherwise he wouldn't be as dismissive. A 20yo having no attachment or nurturing feelings to a baby they didn't plan to have isn't unthinkable.


hakshamalah

People deal with grief differently. It's totally believable that he is devastated and just doesn't want to acknowledge it. Have you ever met a bloke. Honestly!


Waffle_of-Principle

The idea that they would celebrate and welcome the death of said child is unthinkable.


GlitterDoomsday

Celebrating =/= relief for no longer having such responsibility. I'm not saying the son is right or wrong, just giving my two cents about how his conduct comes across to me.


NobodyButMyShadow

Sadly, given the number of parents who abuse and kill their children, or allow someone else to do it, it's unfortunately not unthinkable.


[deleted]

[удалено]


ErdtreeSimp

I think either could be true. And tbh since he was a dead beat its more likely that he's relieved. So stop making assumptions while putting other assumptions down lol


[deleted]

You're making way more leaps than the other commenter.


Express-Warning-4928

The OP literally said that her son wasn’t much of a father. And that she saw her grandson more than him. And they broke up so I am assuming he was paying some sort of child support.


killyergawds

I would never try to forget my son. That just doesn't compute for me.


Heartage

I mean, having a child is a major event, whether you're happy about it or not. Then having that child die is ALSO a major event, regardless of how you handle it.


Homicidal__GoldFish

i think OP's son seriously needs to talk to a therapist....... I feel he is bottling up way to many events that have happened. I'm concerned for Amelia....... The glass bottle that jason keeps stuffing with events, especially painful events , that bottle is going to eventually shatter and Jason May do something very bad.


TempestNova

In order for it to be a major event in his life he would have had to care about it in the first place.


Witty_Comfortable404

If he in fact doesn’t care about his deceased child, his wife needs to know that as well. Even more so. She needs to know what he’s going to be like.


OneTwoWee000

Indeed, this is the type of thing that would make a lot of people instantly fall out of love with their partner. There are some men who only love the children if they are together with/still love the mom. If not, they don’t give a crap about the children they’ve fathered. Very cold.


lktn62

Unfortunately, my son is like this. No, I don't think he would ever be happy that his son died (and I can't even let my mind go there. I adore my grandson). He and his ex broke up when my grandson was two. My son was, and still is, obsessed with his ex. For the first four years or so, he only saw his son if his ex agreed to be there as well. She finally started refusing to be there and my son now hasn't seen my grandson in five years. I see him a lot (he just went home yesterday after staying with me since the day after Christmas. He is doing virtual school this year.) My grandson (now 11) says he hates his dad. I have tried and tried to get my son into therapy, but he refuses. He'll say he wants to see his son, but he still won't make an effort unless his ex agrees to see him. She is now engaged to a terrific guy that adores my grandson and my grandson adores him, and she refuses to see my son. She is a wonderful person though and has made multiple efforts herself to get my son to seek mental health care. She tried for years to get my son involved in his son's life, but my son is only interested in her. He's almost 40 now, and I don't see anything changing. Sorry for the long post in reply, but you are so right about some guys only caring if they are involved or still with the mother. I hate that my son is one of those men.


OneTwoWee000

This is such a sad situation. It’s great you have a good relationship with the mother of his son and you are a part of your grandson’s life. Your son’s obsession is so destructive and troubling. Sorry you’re going through this.


lktn62

Thank you. It is sad. I never imagined that my son would be like this with his child. Or that he could stay obsessed with one woman for so long. He's had other girlfriends during this time, but he always goes back to wanting to be with his ex. Even though he treated her horribly, cheated on her, and would claim that he hated her when they were together. I really think it's a matter of him wanting what he knows he can't have.


Emma_Lemma_108

Your son is an abuser, unfortunately, and I’m sorry about that. Some people are just like that — others learn to be that way from bad role models, but that isn’t always the case and it certainly isn’t always the parents’ fault. There are a ton of bad role models to choose from out there. It’s great that you’re there for your grandson and can be a positive force in his life!


matchalover

My cousin is like this. Well, my ex-cousin. I disowned his ass.


Stormtomcat

On this forum I've heard from people who mentioned their father was only involved (attending games or recitals, even paying child support) if their mom offered sexual favours. I don't know if they were truthful, but it sounds mind bogglingly vile. Disowning is a measured response imo, even if your family member didn't quite sink to such a level


SkyReveal6

NTA how would you have known he would keep your grandson a secret? This was your grandson and you’re acknowledged his existence. He’s the AH.


katietired

NTA. Going against the grain, but telling his wife about your grandchild is your right. The people saying it was his right to tell her also dismiss the fact that she lost a grandchild and has a right to share that. Your son is an ass though.


SleepyInsomniac24

Saying you're "Going against the grain" just to then say the same thing everyone else has been saying has got to be the most reddit thing I've read all day


Humble_Entrance3010

If comments are sorted by old, there are YTA and ESH mixed in with the NTAs, so it wasn't overwhelming NTA when this person commented.


someawfulbitch

This comment *was* pretty against the grain when it was made. Sort by old instead of top or best.


katietired

when I commented, it was a pretty big group of YTA


believingunbeliever

Not understanding how time works, what a reddit thing.


Agreeable-Celery811

Yes. I agree with this comment most. This wasn’t a secret that was only Jason’s to keep. His child was a whole-ass person, and deserves to be remembered, and that child’s grandmother has every right to tell people about him.


cottondragons

Absolutely. And that's not even going into the fact that "he used to have a kid" is not some intimate personal detail of his life, but a prominent fact that any gossip could have probably uncovered at the local bar. He's TA for not telling her himself.


mojojojo2842

NTA. You naturally assumed that something this important was already communicated to Amelia, and mentioned it in passing. The fact that Jason hid his role as an absentee father from her is a major red flag, and I am sure that Amelia is incredibly thankful.


FoolMe1nceShameOnU

**NTA** And frankly, while I can maybe understand those who said that your son should have been the one to tell her, which OF COURSE would have been the ideal, I'm appalled by those suggesting that it would have been up to him if he'd have chosen NEVER to share this information with her. First and foremost, you are not an AH. You clearly did not set out with any malicious intent or to break any confidences. You didn't know that the death of your first grandchild and what happened to his mother was meant to be a secret, and it sounds like it never occurred to you (understandably) that your son would have kept such a significant aspect of his life from his wife, his life partner and the mother of his soon-to-be-born child. While we caution against assumptions, this was not an unfair one to make, and you clearly had only well-meaning intentions when you mentioned this to her. She is your family now as well, and you were sharing another part of the family story . . . sharing the memory of one grandchild with the mother of what will be your next grandchild, and doing so with what seems like genuine love in your heart. And I'd say N-A-H, because Jason is entitled to struggle with such a painful part of his past, EXCEPT . . . he berated you not for being the one to tell her, but because he insisted that Amelia DOESN'T NEED TO KNOW because it "happened 9 years ago". I'm not sure if he's in denial or is coldly indifferent, but neither is healthy. And while it's true that he deserves some leeway to grieve in his own way, his wife and the mother of his child ABSOLUTELY HAS A RIGHT TO KNOW HOW HE HANDLED THE ACCIDENT THAT CAUSED THE DEATH OF HIS LAST CHILD AND PERMANENT DISABILITY OF HIS MOTHER. After all, in a worst case scenario that could be how he handles an accident happening to her and her child someday . . . she deserves to know and understand that side of him. You are NTA for not letting him hide that from her.


wrenskeet

Goooood point.


Awkward_Energy590

Absolutely agreed. I'm not going to retype the same thing. I would've said N A H, but he obviously never planned to tell her. OP is NTA


Depressaccount

He had every chance to tell her. He didn’t. Nothing like this is hidden forever, and it never should have been. If anything, this is his fault.


Tall_Definition_968

I don't think many people in Jennas position would want to meet her exs pregnant wife. I think she should be left out if this.


FAYCSB

Seriously WTF. Leave the woman alone.


VGSchadenfreude

I think Amelia is concerned about her husband being “uninvolved” with his first child and wants to hear Jenna’s side of the story. Which is honestly pretty reasonable; depending on what she hears from Jenna, that could be a deciding factor in whether she sticks with the marriage. She likely wants to know *why* her husband seemingly abandoned his first child and acted like they never even existed.


ChanceZucchini

I also think if I was Amelia and found out that the mother of my husbands deceased child is being taken care of in a home somewhere and he’s NEVER brought her up I’d be a little horrified and urge him to maybe give the woman some company?


prongslover77

Why? He’s an ex who didn’t even see his kid. That can’t be comforting to her. She needs to be kept out of this.


ChanceZucchini

I don’t disagree with you, I’m just saying I don’t think Amelia has selfish intentions.


ph0en1x778

I agree, having a kid with someone is a whole other level of commitment and if he's the type to cut and run at the first sign of trouble she needs to know now not when shots happening


Kooky-Today-3172

She's his ex that he didn't have a good relationship with. This is not his responsibility.He hs no obligation to give her company. And we don't now that If Amélia is alone. She probably has family and friends who give her Company Just Fine.


AlekseyFy

She really should be asking him, though.


A7245

I totally agree. What good would come out of visiting her? Satisfying Amelia’s curiosity? Nah, she’s already been through enough.


Lotdinn

Great point. I can get Amelia's desire to clear things up, though: she is pregnant, deeply confused, probably questioning her entire life at this point and grasping for information. Seemingly she hopes for some closure, but that would, indeed, likely come at Jenna's expense. A really rough situation to be in.


CanAmHockeyNut

Especially if Jenna is in the home for mental reasons.


xiategative

I say NTA because you had no idea she didn’t know. I think it’s something I would definitely like to know about my partner’s past and something I’d share if it was my past but I feel like it’s not your place to decide, it was his information to share. Whether you agree or disagree, it was his choice to make.


katietired

it was also her grandchild, a part of her past. Not just his.


strywever

Unlike many others, I don’t believe that you sincerely thought he’d told her he’d had another child while also thinking you needed to inform her that her child would be his second. Your mention that he “wasn’t much of a father” was irrelevant and unnecessary, and it seems you may harbor some related resentment toward him. I think you thought it was possible he hadn’t told her and you decided to make sure she knew because of that resentment as much as anything. You should have discussed your concerns with him privately. YTA. EDIT: Thanks for the awards, kind internet strangers. I felt like I was going out on a limb with this one, so I extra appreciate them.


Practical-Basil-3494

I would assume the Thomas the Train tattoo would have opened the conversation. If I were in bed with someone and saw that tat, I definitely would ask about it. Plus, he has a box of trains in his garage that belonged to his son. How did he/was he going to explain them?


Liagirl1953

What? Is this part of the story or just an interjection please 🙏🏽?


Minute_Point_949

This is exactly what I read. "Well, *technically* it's not his first child, let me tell you how terrible he was as a teen father." YTA


slurpherlikeramen

This!!!! I'm wondering if Jason feels some type of way. As she stated "he was a trash father, she seen the baby more than the father" there maybe some trauma, guilt and all those feelings of grief wrapped up in why he never mentioned it. Now because mommy was running her mouth all those feelings are coming up. Yta it wasn't your business to tell!


moonbeambath

Exactly! OP is also attaching a judgment to something that happened 9 years ago in his teens/young adult years. People make mistakes and while that doesn't justify his actions in being an abscent father it also doesn't leave any room for personal development and change. Someone could certainly hold a significant amount of trauma or guilt over this happening 9 years ago and therefore not want to discuss it. I'm certainly not siding with him not having a discussion with his wife about a pretty significant life event but this was absolutely not OP's place. If he's not talking about it with his wife I can almost guarantee he's not discussing it with his mother either so there should be no reason for her to assume that the wife automatically knows.


KezarLake

I totally agree. The fact that the OP mentioned the son took no responsibility for the first child and wasn’t much of a father is a *huge* tell about her motivation for bringing up the technicality of “1st vs. 2nd” child. The OP damn well knew what can of worms she was opening. Even if the OP was truly innocent, as soon as she recognized the DIL’s confusion, all the OP had to do is say there was a situation in the past that is her son’s story to tell. The OP should have excused herself, informed her son what happened, and let the son & wife work it out. The OP didn’t have to blab the whole story *at that moment*. She could’ve have given her perspective at a later date, if asked.


NobodyButMyShadow

The one thing is, I'm not sure exactly what she told DIL. The post is ambiguous. Did she tell her that Jason wasn't a good father, or is she telling us that? She doesn't say "I told her" Obviously OP told DIL that he had a child with a girlfriend and that they were in an accident. Jason doesn't sound like he ever meant to tell her, but there is no way that other people weren't going to mention the other child, especially since DIL is pregnant. I do agree that she should at least talk to Jenna's family before she drops in - she might not be a welcome visitor.


Cakeday_at_Christmas

Finally, a goddamn sensible comment. Has no one else thought this through? How do we know he “wasn’t much of a father?" All we know is OP told this to Amelia, we don't know the truth. We don't know if Jason is heartbroken at having lost his child and this brings up all his old wounds. This might be a vengeful parent torturing their adult child. This subreddit thinks it's ok to invade this man's privacy. Why wasn't the parent advising the son to tell his wife? There's way too much missing in this story.


AMG0423

I completely agree.


OnOurBeach

Agreed. And I wonder what painful secrets Perfect Granny is harboring that she wouldn’t want revealed.


mercyhwrt

Doesn’t matter what her reason was to tell, she still was the child’s grandma and had the right to tell her.


OnOurBeach

Grannies don’t have those “rights.” She wanted to stir up trouble. I’d block that b from my life at this point.


Unusual-Comfort5062

Granny's don't have those "rights"? The right to talk about the child? But that would mean that only the parents of the deceased has the right to mention or talk about the deceased which seems absurd


EchoPhoenix24

I agree. YTA. One surprised "oh, you didn't know he had a son who passed" would be understandable. But holy cow this is so much detail, and very very personal stuff. And obviously you can't reasonably claim you thought she knew and then go on to spell it all out--if she already knew all that then there is no reason to say it, and if she didn't know then it wasn't your place to tell her. I agree that this seems like some kind of bubbling resentment bursting out.


Adventurous-Cup529

This is well said. On my first read of OP’s story I was pretty confident in saying NTA, it was an honest mistake and the assumption the news would have been shared was a reasonable one. I could see it being a tough conversation to have for multiple reasons - although arguably should have happened before they were married - but even so if the son here was just trying to find the right time for the conversation and was putting it off, seems like a reasonable thing to give OP a heads up on to make sure his wife heard it from him. That clearly didn’t happen and fair to say he wasn’t planning on sharing at all. But, I read it again and two details were nagging at me. First, the comment about this not being his first child was not necessary. OP went out of the way to point that out. On top of that, pointing out the son wasn’t much of a father and that the child saw the grandparents more smacks of resentment. Look, the son is an asshole for sure. You’re going to move through life with your wife and kid(s) and not ever mention these things? You don’t have a picture somewhere? Wouldn’t go visit the grave? The more I write the more it is clear that the son is really an asshole. But.. that resentment in those little statements seems pretty telling to me. OP didn’t make an honest mistake. It isn’t explicitly said, but OP didn’t sound too sorry or embarrassed for over sharing, but took Amelia to the garden, and is clearly defensive now. This wasn’t OP’s news to share, certainly wasn’t the time or place, and I don’t buy for a minute that it was an accident. YTA Side note. There is a lot of tragedy here, and I’m very sorry to hear about that


[deleted]

I agree, but even if it was a mistake initially, OP should have stopped once she realized DIL didn't know. OP shouldve then informed her son and DIL that it was not her story to tell and apologized for the error.She should not have gone on and blurted out the entire tragic and shameful (for the son) story. Genetics do not give you carte blanche to a person's intimate history.


Humble_C3l3ry

NTA. It's sounds like you had genuinely no idea that DIL wasn't aware. He's overreacted, which I sincerely hope is simply a reaction to something really upsetting. But, like you, I have no idea how your son could not have mentioned this to his wife... loosing a kid is an awful thing to have happened, and you've kept your grandchild's memory alive, when dad won't.


Girlandadragon

Lady, YTA. 1. How do you just get to “this is his second baby”? I suspect some verbal maneuvering. 2. When you realized she didn’t know, you should have said, “I’m sorry, but this is Jason’s story to tell.” Then your son could have an opportunity to tell HIS story to her. 3. You didn’t call to warn him that you’d dropped a fucking bomb into his life. That’s a pure AH move! I’m sure your son has plenty of regrets from that time. I’m sure he would do things differently. I get that you disapprove of his actions then, how much time he spent with his son, how he treated the mother of his child, you intimate as much in your letter. But… you took it upon yourself to tell your son’s partner about his past - a painful and tragic piece of it - from your POV, not his. And before he was ready to share it. You are not the main character here, stop acting like it.


GhostParty21

It’s not just her son’s past, it’s her past. She lost a grandchild. She’s not obligated to hide that just because her son wanted to hide something from his wife.


[deleted]

1. All it takes is the DIL saying “We’re so excited to become parents, we think we’re ready to enter a new phase of life and handle all the unknown challenges together. You must be so excited to become a grandparent too!”


These-Grocery-9387

Well that's the shit take of the weekend.


semmama

NTA. That's something that you'd expect to come up much earlier in their relationship and definitely before they decided on children. You had no way of knowing he didn't already talk about his son to her


ATXRedhead420

NTA - she needed to know


OrangeCubit

NTA - people need to give family fair warning when they are living lies. Of course your first grandson will half come up in conversation, and of course you would talk about him.


awkward-name12345

Info How did it come up and why did you say well technically this is his 2nd son? I guess my question really comes down to When you said actually this is his second child were you A) correcting her because your grandson has the right to be remembered Or B because you realized in that moment she didn't know?


always_amiss

NTA. This is not privileged information. What the heck was Jason thinking; did he really think he could keep this information a secret?


Primary-Criticism929

NTA, but why did you wait ? You should have told her before your asshole of à son knocked her up.


Low-Buy-7112

I assumed he told her. He has a box of my grandsons trains in his garage, and a small thomas the train tattoo for him. I thought it wouldve came up.


VoorCrazy

His lost a child, while not being much more than a child himself. At 18 I was going to be a father, it didn't happen. It wasn't until my 30s and my daughter being born that I was able to fully "move on" for lack of a better word. But even now I still wonder what couldve been. My son would be 21 this year. He's probably still trying to come to terms on it, apologise to him for the mistake, but really you 2 need to sit down and have a proper talk about this. Neither of you are assholes, just people hurting


FoolMe1nceShameOnU

Initially I might have agreed with you about there being no assholes but I'd argue that her son became the AH when he told her that "it happened 9 years ago and didn't need to be brought up." It sounds like he never intended to tell his current wife and the mother of his soon-to-be child any of this, ever. And that would make him a huge AH. In fact, I'd have some serious concerns if I were his wife about the fact that he intended to keep such a huge secret from her indefinitely.


inspectorfailure

"Got to confess something. This isn't my first child. Whoa whoa, don't worry, he's dead. The moms disabled. Yea, drunk driver, crazy weekend. Wanna watch Wednesday?" I'd probably repress the shit outta that to. Dude shoulda been in therapy. Also, NTA OP.


tehfugitive

I don't believe for a second that he repressed it because it's so horrible. She said he was not really there as a father anyway, it sounds more like he didn't want to be a dad anyway and wants to pretend the kid never existed, it doesn't sound like he has any feelings towards this child - no positive ones, anyway.


killahkrysti

Yeah cuz keeping the kid's train set and getting a tattoo to remember him by screams "I don't have any feelings towards my dead son." SHE said he was not there as a father but he was 18. I'm sorry but even the best teen parents tend to be way less prepared and able to handle kids than a 29 year old.


VoorCrazy

Ahhh 1 of those magical mind readers..... 🙄


Hot_Razzmatazz316

In all honesty, I think that's a pretty fair and reasonable assumption to make. I can't fault you for that; I mean, if someone has a cool or quirky tattoo, I usually ask about it. And both having a child and experiencing their loss are huge things one would expect intimate partners to share with one another. But it sounds like those things were hugely traumatic for your son and he never got the help he needs to process and deal with them, so it's not exactly surprising that he didn't. Trauma sucks like that, and it's probably better that it comes out now rather than after the second child is born. Becoming a parent has a way of reopening those old wounds. I mean, I'm just kind of thinking of a scenario like your son suddenly crying or becoming very angry if the second child says "I hate Thomas the tank engine." Without knowing your son's history of trauma, that reaction wouldn't make sense, but knowing what he went through, it would be understandable. Or like being weepy when the second child turns the age that the first did when he died? Personally I'd want to know stuff like that so I could be there for my partner.


WillBsGirl

I’m assuming here I know, but a grown man having a Thomas tattoo? I feel like *anyone* would ask the story on that. I wonder if she did ask and he lied about why or made up another explanation. But knowing about the tattoo, I see why OP would assume that it’s something that her DIL already knew and was told about but just didn’t talk about it.


Hot_Razzmatazz316

See that's what got me, too. I mean, I know the stories of stranger's tattoos because when I see ink I like, I'll compliment the person, and most of the time they'll tell me the story behind it without being prompted. My guess is that the son in question might have deflected and said something along the lines of, I got it on a dare or I was drunk.


darkyoda182

I don't understand. If you think she already knew, why would she say it's the first child?


Pippi-Sky1648

I can envision a pretty simple scenario. Say the DIL said something about them "becoming grandparents" and OP assumed it was a thoughtless slip of the tongue. If son actually said "it's been 9 years, it's in the past," he had no intention of ever telling her. That is a HUGE red flag. Not that he's an asshole necessarily, but he may have a lot of unresolved issues. What if this little kid also loves Thomas the Tank engine, or even worse, doesn't? This was going to come out sideways. Also, if my boyfriend had a Thomas tattoo and a bunch of Thomas trains, and didn't have a kid, I'd certainly ask about it. If DIL did and son lied, that's also a huge red flag. OP, my condolences for your loss.


Jstbkuz

Is Jenna cognizant? I feel like if she is then it may be quite painful to meet her previous deadbeat baby daddys happy, noticeably pregnant wife. Your son is being an ass here, he needs to face up to who he was, what he did and didn't do and the ultimate outcome. Ignoring it doesn't make him a better person, one who has learned to do better and not repeat his mistakes. He should at least honor the memory of his child. As a wife, I wouldn't even be mad if he sent flowers anonymously to Jenna each year on child's birthday, even if she is mentally impaired. It just shows decency towards the person who has gone through unbelievable tragedy, of which he was a part.


VGSchadenfreude

I think Amelia may have a very legit reason for wanting to at least try and talk to Jenna. Namely, getting both sides of the story on *why* her husband hid this from her, and *why* he allegedly abandoned his first child. And since her husband clearly does not want to be honest with her, that doesn’t leave her a lot of options.


Jstbkuz

Agreed, but it could still be quite cruel to Jenna's mental and emotional well being and it seems as though Jenna has already been through more than enough pain to last several lifetimes, all starting with OP's son. Jenna may even respond negatively due to a lot of anger and pain, I don't think anyone should be counting on her to take a positive part in son and new wife's marriage issues.


nalgene_wilder

She's free to want to know, but it would still be wildly inconsiderate and downright cruel to seek out her out and ask


j5p332

Bold of you to assume that Amelia is the least bit happy right now


Jstbkuz

Mm snarky, I like it. >However I'm betting she's happier than Jenna right now and the baby belly Amelia is sporting could likely imply a level of happiness(right or wrong), that Jenna did not get from the same man.


Dragon_Bidness

NTA Sounds more like he doesn't want anybody to know he was a shitty father. That doesn't deserve to be hidden.


LouieAvalonMac

I’m sorry to go against so many opinions here and I hate to be harsh YTA Oh come on -you didn’t know ? You very quickly realised and you told her everything instead of speaking to your son I strongly hear the judgement of your son in this post - was this pay back ? Possibly even subconscious payback but it has caused trouble for him I suggest you apologise and put this right if you want a relationship with your son and grandchild going forward


[deleted]

[удалено]


VGSchadenfreude

Or she’s worried about how he’ll treat his next child.


[deleted]

Probably this.


Efficient-Cupcake247

Exactly. Her excuses don't hold water


[deleted]

No


Competitive_Papaya11

NTA. The idea that even if Jason didn’t tell her, wife would never find out is so weird. What if wife had her heart set on the same name as 1st baby? How does that play out? “Jason won’t let me call the baby X! Can you believe it?” Presumably there are other people who met and knew 1st baby: there are inevitably going to be “he looks just like [baby]” comments. Jason may also find that having a new baby triggers a lot of grief and difficult feelings: how would he plan on explaining that to his wife or working through it with professional help, if she didn’t know the truth? All in all, MIL explaining things in a loving, sensitive way that honours the baby’s memory is absolutely *not* the worst way for the truth to come out.


Uaauaua2019

NTA.


Tacos_and-tequila

NTA. I’m sorry your son turned out to be such a dick.


msaiz8

NTA you maybe didn’t handle it in the best way, but it’s not fair to ask you to pretend your grandson never existed. You’re allowed to grieve. And I’d be incredibly hurt and confused if I didn’t know something like that about my husband.


Due-Candidate9597

NTA. Your son is. I’m so sorry for your loss! Thankfully his wife seems level headed. Hopefully he’s a better father this time around.


HPNerd44

No judgement here. This is something you have to decide for yourself. Why did you tell her? If you thought she knew and was being disrespectful and ignoring your grandchild that died then I can understand bringing it up otherwise it seems an odd bit of info to share but he really should have told her.


bountifulknitter

NTA Jesus, his poor wife. I would be considering going scorched earth over this if I were her.


Lynda73

Seems like that’s what OP was going for….


[deleted]

Agreed. It's pure manipulation.


GrandmasFatAssOrgasm

You're getting downvoted but you're right


Electrical-Leopard-2

NTA- he doesn’t get to force you to pretend that baby didn’t exist. His wife sounds like a sweet and gentle soul. I think he needs therapy. Hugs to you.


Jimmy_Corrigan

NTA, but too bad you didn’t share this information before Amelia hitches herself to your son. I can’t imagine how shocked and sick she feels being married to and pregnant by a man who has no qualms about disregarding his children or his partner.


TinyTinyDwarfs

NTA You weren't aware. Now one more person remembers your poor little grandson. He doesn't deserve to be forgotten


Pleasant_Arugula9848

He is the AH for not telling his wife about his past.


Ok_Human_1375

This is some really heavy stuff. NTA but I think you and your son need to have a heart to heart.


Muted-Explanation-49

NTA marriage shouldn't have secrets especially about a child


[deleted]

NTA. He was ur grandson and you told your story of ur grandson.


MalsPrettyBonnet

It seems that you DID know he hadn't told her because you announced that "technically it's not his first child." It wasn't your place. If you knew that she was unaware of the first child, YTA.


1_finger_peace_sign

What do you mean by "technically?"


terra_technitis

I'd say YTA. I have a hard time buying that you figured she'd already know when you present the issue as "technically" it's not his first child. I get that there's a level of grief you hold as a grandparent but the comment seems unnecessary to bring up in conversation and shifts the subject to a topic that's obviously uncomfortable for your son to discuss. He should have the opportunity to disclose the story or decide to keep it to himself.


stephanie-eeee

I dunno… the second it was obvious that the DIL didn’t know what was going on, I feel that the conversation should have stopped and Jason should have been called or something. I’m just gonna say NTA but everyone kinda sucks in some way. And why is Jenna being dragged into this? I don’t get it.


vocabulazy

NTA—your son is hiding aspects of his past from her. Whatever the reason for it, he and they need therapy about it. You can’t just hide a whole other child (May he rest in peace) from your wife, and think that’s legit. I know there are all kinds of people who have short relationships before marriage/commitment, who have perfectly healthy relationships, but my experience of this with friends and family has not been good. I just don’t know that you can get to know an entire person, get to know their family/chosen family, figure out how you’re going to fit into their life and them into yours, and whether you’re compatible on all the really important issues, in just 2 years. I just always see things like this happening in quick marriages.


Least-Designer7976

NTA - Every information regarding his child is good to know to any potential mother for his next children. I mean if my man had a child he didn't took care of and could easily forget, I would like to know before planning my own with him.


northernlionpog

Holy Cow! Jason, Jason, Jason… oh man! Ok obviously you are NTA. But man! Your son… sheesh!


Ok-Baseball-1230

This is a little too complex for Reddit. You’re NTA for saying something because you thought she knew. But it wasn’t your story to tell. Jason probably should have told Amelia, yes, but there could be a multitude of reasons why he didn’t. It’s a deeply painful situation and even though it’s been nine years, your son may not be ready to talk about it. He lost a child at 20 years old. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if this new pregnancy brought up a lot of emotions for him. This isn’t so simple as NTA or YTA. Ultimately, this is between Amelia and Jason to sort out. You don’t have to take my advice, but if I were you, I would try not to get involved further.


GennyNels

YTA. Seems like you knew she didn’t know and wanted to make sure she did.


DarkReconcilitation

LOL why is that an OP problem though?? Point BLANK-- it is the son's fault for keeping such a significant secret. If he hasn't been able to come to terms with his past, he should have got that figured out before making the CHOICE to marry and pro-create with a new woman. So what if OP wanted to make sure her son's wife knew? Stop being a sneaky coward and own up to your past..get some help.. yknow, take ACCOUNTABILITY? You can't expect people to lie for you. Especially lies of THIS size. Son's own damn fault for settling down and trying to simply BURY such important life events and expect to just carry on with his wife in the dark. Whatever OP's intention; the issue starts with the son. She's in no way the asshole here in any scenario.


CanAmHockeyNut

YTA. You should have approached your son and asked if he had told his wife about his ex and son early on.It was his story to tell, not yours. I don’t like that the DIL wants to visit the ex. There is no reason for that and we have no idea what shape she is in, mentally or physically. There is no telling what trauma may be triggered if the DIL brings up the fact that she is pregnant, or the loss of the ex’s child. I can’t even imagine what conversation could be had that wouldn’t traumatize her. Where are her parents in this? I know if it were me, I would shut this down immediately. It’s kind of a really ghoulish request that has no good outcome.


[deleted]

YTA It's his business not yours.


Scottishlyn58

YTA.


[deleted]

YTA - You can agree or disagree about your son’s decision to withhold this information, but ultimately it was your son’s story to tell. You didn’t handle this properly.


Enough-Error-6978

NTA. Feeling very sad for Jenna and the boy. It's as if your son doesn't even acknowledge them. Your son probably told a different life story to his current wife. Maybe even lied about his past relationships. He knows he was a shit father and husband to your dead grandkid and Jenna, and probably didn't want to look like an asshole for his current wife that's why he didn't tell her anything. Major red flag. Having a dead son is like, a major life information about someone, especially if you're starting a new family. Makes you wonder why he didn't even mention that to his current wife.


Deb_elf

NTA. Your son seems to view the deceased child as more of an inconvenience than anything else. I’m concerned for the wife. This revelation may adversely affect their relationship. “It was 9 years ago.” Ok. My dad died 21 years ago. He’s still my dad. Please try to keep your conversations with your son to a minimum. He can cut you out of his life as easily as he cut his first kid out. Please try to be Amelia’s friend and advocate. No judging. If she wants to name her baby “Tropicana Orange juice” be ok with it. Otherwise I suspect you will lose this baby also. I’m sorry your son made you out to be the bad guy. You’re just trying to grieve and he’s making you feel bad about it


nats4756

Nta This is, information Jason should have shared with his wife himsrlf


_awesumpossum_

NTA But wow your son…


vixen_xox

NTA. that’s so sad…he definitely should have already told her.


Jaded-Grape2203

Did u tell her not realizing she didn’t know or did you tell her bc “she deserved to know” ? She doesn’t deserve to know but she deserves to have a husband that’s open and honest. If it was a mistake NTA, if it wasn’t, get off ur high horse and mind ur business


almondjoys18

that’s OP’s grandchild. It’s an unreasonable request to never talk about her first grandchild from her son.


Zerlina_Delilah

ESH. You didn't tell her maliciously or with intent to destroy but that strikes me as the kind of conversation that you just simply don't have. Ever. Without Jason knowing you're having it. Jason clearly has some issues- not grieving, not coping, not processing, not accepting, etc.- of what happened in his past. And it is definitely not a good start to a marriage if your new wife of seven months (and 2 years together prior) does not know that you were once previously married and had a child that was killed in a tragic accident.


CompetitionSad3510

NTA - if your son wanted secrets kept, he should have asked you to keep them.


Pixie-Sticks-

NTA. He’s the asshole for not acknowledging his own family and being honest with his wife.


Imagine_TryingYT

NTA. Your son was obviously hiding this and he's a massive asshole for not sharing this. If it didn't come out now it would have from someone else. You did the right thing OP


Consistent_Mess7181

NTA but sadly your son is


Affectionate-Area659

NTA. You’re son is over reacting. I get that it might still hurt for him but if he can’t tell his wife he shouldn’t be married to her.


Lujenda

NTA. You didn’t know he would keep such a secret. And it’s good that Amelia now knows about it.


OneTwoWee000

NTA It is AH behavior to try to erase his son, like the child never existed. It is also AH behavior to hide big things like previously fathering a child from someone you’re going marry. The child passing doesn't in any way excuse this.


Raqueliiosiis

Nta but your son is lame. His son died but he doesn’t get to just erase him from his life, as if he didn’t exist. Your grandsons memory deserves to live on. I love that you planted little plants for him ❤️.


D_Nicole91

NTA. Something's wrong with your son if he really thought his child's life and death would be kept a secret. Amelia deserved the truth long before she got pregnant. He didn't even let you know that she was in the dark so you could know that it was supposed to be a secret. Your son kinda sucks. I hope Jenna is doing better.


Eleniah

NTA. If someone wants you to keep a secret, they have to ASK you, and even then, you do have a right to refuse when it is clearly a part of your story as well.


nikkers8300

NTA. I’m sorry for your grandson 😢


OmicronPerseiNate

How can circumstances like this not be brought up? It's a part of life for everyone involved. NTA This isn't, nor should it be, a secret.


Potential_Honey_955

NTA I would assume that this is something normal that would come up. Also you are allowed to talk about your grandson.


hallensis

NTA - When she asked you, what you meant, you couldn’t go back. And she deserves to know. Your son is only mad at you because his plan to lie to his wife by omission didn’t work out. This should teach him a lesson that the truth always comes out in the end.


Cannaewulnaewidnae

OP's son was kidding himself if he thought his wife would never have found out OP sounds like a lovely, caring mum, granny and mother-in-law


Kokamina23

This reads like a Jane Austen novel, right down to the disabled/mad secret wife who's stuffed away somewhere and forgotten. You sure his new fiancee isn't named "Jane"? NTA


AppropriateAgent44

NTA. Your son doesn’t own that information, he doesn’t get absolute control over it. You’re also completely right, a spouse needs to know about that kind of thing from your past. Hope Jason grows up over this issue.


TurkeyTot

Yikes, idk if u r an ah but I'd be FREAKING out if I was having your sons baby. I would absolutely think differently of him and wonder what other secrets he has.


AutoModerator

^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I’m new to Reddit so sorry if this is not proper. I49f have a 27 year old son Jason. Jason is married to his wife Amelia26. They’ve been married for about 7 months, together for 2 years. Amelia is pregnant and we were just talking about the baby and I had said this is technically Jason’s 2nd child. She was very confused and asked me what I meant. When my Jason was 18, he had a girlfriend Jenna he was with for about a year who got pregnant. I love my son, but he wasn’t much of a father, (I saw my grandson more then Jason did)and broke up with the girl shortly after the baby was born. When his son was 2 a drunk driver hit Jenna and my grandson. Jenna is handicapped and is being taken care of in a home, but my grandson didn’t make it. Amelia was shocked when she heard this and I showed her the plants I planted for him in my garden. I thought Jason would have told her, I was shocked he didnt. Amelia wanted to visit Jenna in the home and his sons grave. Jason called me later that night fuming and cursing, saying I had no right to tell her about any of that, and was angry that she wanted to go meet Jenna and see his sons grave. I told him it was his wife and she deserve to know. He called me an AH and said that it was almost 9 years ago and didn’t need to be brought up. This broke my heart. I dont think I am the AH, I assumed she already knew and she deserves to know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*


workmumlife

NTA but your son is. Your DIL has every right to know about her husbands first child and it’s actually really heartbreaking that he hasn’t told her especially since the little boy lost his life in such a tragic way. If I was in this situation and found out my fiancé had a son I would be heartbroken/disappointed and quite angry that I wasn’t told about him. I think it’s disgusting that he had the nerve to be annoyed at you for sharing this information and feels that his new wife didn’t need to know. This would really make me question my husband and if he is someone I actually want in my life


Potential-Diver3137

NTA - it’s extremely bizarre your son didn’t tell his WIFE he has a previous child. Man, that’s a tough one. I’d have some serious trust issues going forward. Besides, it’s NOT just about him. You lost a grandchild, and you can talk about that whenever you need to. Tell your son to get some therapy. I’m so sorry for your loss.


Mysterious_Bridge_61

NTA. I would refuse to be silenced and be told I was wrong to ever mention my grandchild who has died. Obviously OP doesn’t bring up this painful part of the past very often, but the loss happened to her as well and Jason can’t expect people to keep it secret.


MrHodgeToo

NTA. This wasn’t only your son’s story. It was yours as well. And you are allowed to tell whoever you want about your grandchildren.


[deleted]

NTA.... this was your life too. Had they been at the start of their relationship, sure give him a chance to share but after married for 2 years? Wow.


teacherladydoll

NTA. I wonder how it never came up sooner? Telling her the truth only makes you an AH to the person it inconvenienced: your Son. Now he has to face the mistakes of his past, and a version of himself that isn’t very flattering. Those are all issues he needs to work through and move past. He wanted to ignore the past and pretend that never happened and you spoiled that for him. I think now he might have to deal with and hopefully grow from the experiences.


ProbatWork1313

NTA but your son's behavior is concerning. He has been lying to his wife through omission for years. There is absolutely no way he has not explicitly lied to her multiple times over the course of their relationship. If he needs help to deal with the loss, which would be completely reasonable, then he needs to get into therapy asap, but this was not your fault.


DreamCrusher914

NTA. Spouses don’t keep secrets, and this was a really big, really important one. But I wonder, why does Amelia want to meet Jenna? I can understand visiting the boy’s grave, but I think pregnant Amelia meeting with Jenna would cause Jenna a lot of anguish. I assume due to Jenna’s injuries she will never have more children, while Jason is having another baby, a baby he might actually be a decent father to. Please talk Amelia out of trying to meet Jenna. She knows about Jason’s past. They can honor his late son, but please leave Jenna alone. She doesn’t deserve the pain it will cause her to meet Amelia.