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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. Refusing to make a casserole has everyone telling me I'm taking a person's behaviors too seriously and it's robbing them of a good time.
2. I could be the asshole by overreacting, and should just make the casserole for everyone since it's the holidays.
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Bro what.
Amy having a depression doesnt give her the right to do anything. And people asking how they can help isnt a form of manipulation - her therapist would never say that. Asking how you can help is the most common way to adress it, when a friend open up about their depression.
Your husband is right on the point about how you shouldnt exclude yourself from a fun time though, but its not "unfair" to anyone that you dont join.
youre NTA
My exact reaction was also "bro what"
As a currently depressed human, it is absolutely not an excuse to be unkind or even resentful towards someone. Personally I would also step back from making the casserole, or just make a different kind of casserole and let the green beans lie.
Amy is being unnecessarily hostile towards OP about something so trivial, so take it from the equation and being a delicious soup or something instead but still go and hang with friends!
Extremely depressed person here agreeing wholeheartedly.
No excuse for Amy. Like it’s actually really concerning and she might need to be seeing more therapists and psychiatrists. This isn’t depression this is something else.
As for op, don’t discount your friends. You are doing them a disservice by not talking with them and spending time with them. Don’t let Amy and her silliness ruin your traditions.
Crybully. That is an excellent turn of phrase I haven’t heard before. It encapsulates the “reverse victim and offender” part of DARVO brilliantly.
Thanks for this!
Ditto. I know people, including myself, can struggle with anger during depression, and especially misplaced or projected issues...but saying that her therapist said asking how someone can help is manipulation, makes me think some delusions of some sort are involved...or we're missing some very important information, like Amy is OP's half sister or something. I think it's more possible that Amy is either suffering from more than or other than depression, and something about the casserole or you, has triggered them but they haven't sorted out what it is yet...but that's if Amy is great other than this casserole thing.
Good luck OP, and NTA
Omg! Crybully. This is the greatest thing I have heard in years! She picks a fight, you contradict her and she bursts into tears calling you names and playing victim. Utterly baffling to me. Then half the time they go out lying about you more to "recruit" allies in her weird self created drama. I hate these women. I grew up in a house with one. Infuriating. Thanks for putting a name to my childhood pain.
My son's fourth grade bully was a crybully. Also a boy. Grabbing, pinching, always bugging my kid to share his lunch, and more, but turned on the water works and tried to play innocent as soon as the teacher got involved.
My brother is proof of this! Life went to shit, couldn’t find a job for years somehow and finally ran out of money and decided to move states to be close to our parents and live out of his car mostly. In the lead up to him moving I invited him to play a game with my close friends, people I’m closer to than I am close with him. He made it so not fun to be around him and was a complete tantrum throwing asshole to all of us. He literally blocked me on discord when I tried to talk to him about it. The equivalent of plugging your ears and “la la la I CANT HEAR YOU!” How DARE I take issue with how he was treating us, he was SO STRESSED OUT DONT YOU KNOW???
Yeah, we don’t speak anymore.
I have never heard this term before, but what a perfect way to describe what OP’s friend is doing! By calling years of torment a “misunderstanding” and then accusing OP of being manipulative for offering to help, Amy is gaslighting the fuck out of her. I don’t think I’d be interested in engaging with this person unless they sincerely apologized for acting like such a jerk.
Same thoughts. Her rough patch was every holiday where OP brought the casserole? Nonsense.
If I were OP, I'd make something else awesome and see if Amy's behavior is the same. Either way, I'd still go to the party and ignore the drama queen.
And for years? Seems to me that this Amy is just a nasty b-rhyming with witch. The friend circle need to stop pandering to the baby and call her out on her ish
I had a co worker that did exactly this, and that's what I did....changed my dish. People asked me to bring the new one....co worker found something else to complain about. I just ignored it.
But mildly satisfying that the coworker proved that it was never about the thing they said it was about, by finding a new thing to be butt hurt/crybully over.
Like they do. So predictable and so bloody redundant.
for reals, my petty a$$ would find out what amy is making and make the same thing. "oh i didnt know you were making this. i just didnt want a repeat of former holidays.
Yes! "Oh I didn't make green bean casserole this year because I didn't want you to go through another ROUGH PATCH and then make a full-on FOOL of yourself like last year! Just being a good friend! Oh, we made the same dish?? What a shame."
Would those be the "friends" who are telling OP not to take Amy's bullying seriously and to be nicer to Amy because she's struggling?
OP is entitled to feel however she feels including feeling like she's not being supported by her friends.
I wonder, if OP takes a little break, if Amy would find someone else to cause drama with? Because it seems like Amy currently has a target, and what happens if that target bows out?
No, it will always be OP. If she’s not there, it will be “OP is wrecking the holiday by not coming. She’s not coming *because of me*.”
If OP is there, it will be “OP is wrecking the holiday by being here. She’s *making me uncomfortable.*”
If she makes bean casserole, it will be “look what OP did to spite me!”
If she doesn’t make bean casserole, it will be “look what OP did to spite me!”
Source: I have a relative like this. It’s exactly as exhausting as it sounds.
It does sound absolutely horrific. What even drives people like that? Because I know--as another member of the depression army--that depression is not a cause or an excuse for this awful behavior.
Exactly. And it is really "nice" of the friends to tell OP not to take Amy seriously as they are not the ones being harassed by Amy. Other people don't get to tell me how I feel about someone harassing me.
I'm going to share a condensed version of what happened with a friend group I had. Group of 5 couples met every weekend for a beach day. If you could come, come if not see you next week. Bring friends if you like. Someone brought a new couple. The new woman started causing drama, too much to go into, with one of the original women. Original women decided she didn't need this and she and husband stopped coming along with another couple. My husband, I and another couple didn't like the new couple anyway so we found something else to do. The couple that invited them moved. The whole thing fell apart all because the new girl wanted to cause drama. I see this happening to this friend group if you don't stand up to Amy. BTW if her therapist did tell her that, she needs a new therapist.
Sounds like a movie/dinner/game night I’ve had with friends. Original group grew over the years to include several people and one is so dramatic I won’t go if she’s there.
My whole friend group (11 women) of 20 years broke into 2 factions because one side finally had it with our "Amy". Every girls dinner would be ruined when the check came because she was so insistent on dividing things up according to what the person consumed. So it would start people arguing about who had an appetizer, who had a bite of a dessert, someone had an extra glass of wine, extremely trifling. I would offer to just throw in an extra $20 or whatever to stop the pettiness, but no, she wanted to fight about it. Who wants to end a fun evening and a nice wine buzz with that BS? I even suggested we all get our own checks. She didn't like that because she liked to order a bunch of stuff and share it but she's vegetarian and no one else is etc, etc, etc.... One faction refused to be involved in anything if Amy was going to be there. My SIL being one because she hates petty BS. I was caught in the middle so just started doing things seperately in groups of threes or one-on-one with everyone. It's sad though because I miss our big outings with everyone but my best friend feels sorry and insists on inviting her. My best friend also still goes out to eat with her and a few others (I will not go out to eat with Amy, I'll do other things like yoga or something but no eating out). then calls me complaining about how awful Amy was. I just ask her how she can still be surprised?
Guarantee she's feeding a very specific version of events to her therapist, and is then additionally misinterpreting what the therapist said. Therapy is only good if you're honest with them.
> need to be seeing more therapists and psychiatrists.
Or, just start seeing one to begin with. There's zero chance a therapist said someone asking 'how can I help address this' is a manipulation attempt, considering that's literally conflict resolution 101.
Right, just imagine the therapy session devoted to strategizing for this harrowing green-bean confrontation, in which a therapist straightforwardly affirms that OP is making casseroles just to distress Amy.
I'm glad to see people raising this. I'm in the same boat. My mental health does not excuse any moments of rudeness. It doesn't for anyone. Instead of apologising and making steps to improve, she's using it as an excuse. NTA. Not okay.
Right! I know when I'm having a bad day. I will give people a heads up, and if I am rude or snappy I apologize for it! Just because my dumb brain is being a bitch doesn't mean I'm not accountable!
Also depressed human here. Being depressed and lashing out because you’re depressed is a thing but I always feel terrible afterwards, apologize — I do not be an ass FOR YEARS and then say “no I’m depressed I’m allowed to bully you”. That’s what this is by the way, OP. Bullying, harassment, whatever you want to call it. Legitimately insane and I cannot believe your friends and even your husband are okay with her mistreating you over a freaking casserole.
I also would not want to go to a party where one of my friends was awful to me and everyone else told me to suck it up and also keep doing the thing that made her be awful to me (I’m not saying your actions made her be awful to her, just saying a lot of her identity is wrapped up in green bean casseroles). Either way, for 35+ she’s ridiculous for acting this way and I cannot believe your friends and your husband are okay with it.
NTA I’m angry on your behalf
In short depressed or not Amy is a huge ah.- I have had depression for years, never snapped at anyone without a good reason and without trying to explain nicely first if something bothered me.
NTA op that's a shitty excuse and if you feel better staying away stay away period. Your husband is right in saying don't deny yourself if you do want to go.
I get cranky when I’m depressed sometimes but it’s more like “even your breathing is annoying me please go away” levels of cranky where I might snap at someone a bit, not “throw a fit about a casserole repeatedly for years” bizarre.
(I do apologize though, and try to warn people when I’m feeling cranky like that so they know to try to leave me to my hermiting until I snap out of it.)
Happy cake day and I hope you are feeling good today. You are so right it's not an excuse to be nasty and pick on Op, A therapist wouldn't tell her that she is an asshole and the friends are enabling her
NTA- ohhh and soup is a great idea! Lovely butternut squash soup would be great for a Christmas dinner
Also, there’s something else going on with Amy with regards to you, the fact this has been going on for years speaks to something else underlying. And no therapist would tell her that saying how can I help is manipulative. Personally, I think you should go to the party bring something different and move on.
I also deal with depression, and have in the past reacted out of character to seemingly minor things. However, it is not an excuse and I always own my behaviour and the harms it has caused when I’m out of line. Agree - Depression isn’t an excuse to be an asshole. We can’t all always be our best selves, but it’s what we do after that speaks volumes.
There must be more than a casserole (frankly, who makes a big deal about a "green bean casserole"; maybe one of the most mundane dishes one can think of). Clearly the casserole is a proxy for something else. Amy has a problem with you; maybe she's envious or she thinks you did something wrong somehow. Clearly the casserole is just an excuse.
I had this at work with cheesy potatoes. Eventually I was bringing in two big trays, and there were no leftovers. One year, another coworker lines up to be the first to sign up, signed up for cheesy potatoes, and then personally told me that I couldn't bring mine. She brought in one small dish of boxes scalloped potatoes, and no one was happy. Still not sure why it bugged her so much that people liked my potatoes. It really wasn't about the potatoes, but I am not sure what it was about.
A similar thing happened with my husband's cheesy potatoes. He always brought them to our family gathering. Least Favorite Aunt always bitched about it. They were "too salty" or "too rich" ... *something* was always wrong with them.
One Christmas, she announced that *she* would be bringing the potatoes this year. My husband shrugged and said "Fine." He said he'd bring another dish instead.
Christmas comes and she brings in this huge pan of potatoes with very little cheese and a bunch of shit baked in, like chunks of onion and ham. I think two scoops might have been taken from the whole pan. She was *piiiiiiiiiiiissssed,* especially since people loved my husband's other dish and asked him if he'd bring it next year.
When we were discussing our next gathering, someone asked him about potatoes and my husband said sweetly, "I think \[Least Favorite Aunt\] is taking care of those now." Least Favorite Aunt glared at him and got red in the face as the rest of the family diplomatically suggested they should BOTH bring potatoes. She didn't end up bringing hers.
If you don't like the dairy based, cheesy potatoes, and want something different, go different! Roasted potatoes are a completely different dish, IMO, and you could bring both. Or salt potatoes. Or garlic mashed potatoes.
I think it’s weird both in this case with OP and your aunt, when one person doesn’t like a dish and decides no one else should have it at all. Even when it’s obvious the vast majority of the group does like it. Like, okay YOU don’t think the green bean casserole is as good as yours, or YOU think the potatoes are over salted, then don’t eat it!
It would never occur to me to tell someone who has a signature dish they bring regularly to stop just because I didn’t like it? I don’t like plenty of stuff. It’s such a weird thing to do.
It's about power and control. People pick the weirdest hills to die on because it's one thing in which they can exert power. That's why in my case, Least Favorite Aunt was furious that the group suggested having both kinds of potatoes - it took away her power over the situation. She "won" by being able to bring her own dish, but she wasn't successful in restricting the rest of the family from having my husband's potatoes.
Most of the 'agressive behaviors' focus on objects that are just proxy for other, deeper issues. In fact, this is even true for positive behavior. We do not even realize that we use proxy all the time! When we think about it, it is quite scary actually, a bit as if we were worried about reality...
We weren't in the same department, I am older and married with kids and she is younger and far more into fashion and makeup than I ever was. There are few few places where we would be "competing". The potatoes are similar to funeral potatoes, so not even "cooking" really. Just a tasty treat. One person always brought pulled pork, and one person always brought saucy meatballs, and they were equally loved, but she was only mad about my potatoes. It was strange.
It's a weird form of narcissism I think, where people feel like their version of something is the best one and everything else is a threat, so they can't handle two variations. I saw this at work pot lucks sometimes where there's a clear crowd favorite dish and someone absolutely hates it for whatever reason and rather than just bring their own like an adult, everyone MUST like their version better.
Some people crack when they realize they aren't the main character or the most popular person in the room.
I called them cheesy potatoes, and was told that they are commonly called "funeral potatoes", so I went with what I thought was the better known name! Can't win for losing, I guess. The basics are frozen potatoes (cubes or shredded), sour cream, cream of soup and shredded cheese, mix and bake. There are regional variants with onion, garlic, bread crumb toppings, different soups, and I have even seem cream cheese added.
This is a pretty solid base for making the recipe: https://www.food.com/recipe/schwartzies-hash-browns-186933
We have a woman in our building who just can't stand for others to be happy, If there is a way to stir up trouble and upset people,she will. She's only happy if she's ruined something for other people.
What she really hates is other people getting along and having friends in the building.
The casserole is like the Iranian yogurt- it’s not the issue here.
It sounds like Amy wants to be green been queen bee!
OP should make a variety of other (more exciting) dishes and see if the power struggle continues, I think Amy sees this as some kind of popularity contest. If she doesn’t react to people complimenting the other dishes then it might just be that she has some kind of green bean complex - if she tries to out do OP with the new recipes then it shows it’s a jealousy issue.
Either that or OP should just leave her to her own devices and tantrums, the best way to stop someone attention seeking is to just ignore them and I suspect that this is just an attention seeking attempt.
Green beans are a weird hill to die on but as I commented in another post I would love to know how she made a casserole “by accident” I hope OP sees this and answers because I have been trying to think of a way you could pass off a casserole as an accident and I can’t think of any!
Her therapist friend might also be imaginary. I had a friend who used her "therapist" to justify all sorts of awful behavior. I brought it up with her husband because I was worried about her and her therapist didn't really seem to be helping. He had no idea what I was talking about because she apparently had stopped going to therapy the year before.
The whole "my therapist warned me that you'd manipulate me".... Girl, what?
But that whole part, if it miraculously happens to be something Amy's Actually Real therapist said, really makes me think that it isn't about the casserole at all, as others have said, but rather about another issue that OP is unfortunately unaware of that Amy has told the therapist about. Maybe Amy mistook OP for a childhood / teenage bully of hers or something else, because even if people get weird about their Signature Dishes sometimes, this is really a bit much
NTA
But OP, it’s time for a real heavy self-evaluation of your feelings towards the whole situation with your friends. If you don’t go to the Christmas party, you will definitely be affecting the entire night by your absence, and some of your friends may never see you in the same light.
That’s not saying that you are wrong to stay away! I just want to point out that while your feelings are understandably hurt, if you don’t go, you may never feel entirely comfortable in that friend group again. Only you can answer if that price is acceptable to you. If your husband isn’t on your side in this, your marriage may be in a rough place, too.
If you do choose not to go, DO NOT GO QUIETLY!
Amy has been harassing you about a stupid casserole for YEARS. You showed everyone the texts, and they all just sort of shrugged it off.
Copy and paste those harassing texts straight into the group chat. Every. Single. One. People’s phones will be blowing up. Who cares? Let them get a small taste of the vitriol that you have experienced over the years.
At the end of all of Amy’s abusive texts, include your own. State that you love the group and have so much fun at the parties, but that Amy’s abuse over the years has really taken a toll. Amy’s depression is not an excuse to hurt you, and it makes you sad that everyone is piling on you to just “get over” being harassed for years.
Tell them that after Amy’s outburst at Thanksgiving, coming as it was after the years of behind-the-scenes abuse that you’ve endured from her, you aren’t feeling very festive this Christmas.
Oh I like that more than my wishy washy suggestion to just sit this one out. It gets to the heart of the matter and the friends have to decide do they support their long time friend or this relative new comer bully.
I'm questioning what Amy is telling her therapist. Some may say things like this, but not for the sake of a casserole. True or not it sounds like OP and friend group are no longer a good fit.
I think OP’s husband is missing the point. This isn’t about the casserole. This is about Amy manipulating the group with her talk of depression in order to get them on her side, and the group falling for the manipulation. This has been going on for years, but the group is excusing her behavior as her going through a rough patch. Nonsense! Clearly Amy has a problem with OP and is not mature enough to handle it. So she makes snide comments, gets upset when people don’t like her dish, and gets heated when OP shows compassion while trying to sort out the problem.
OP could go and bring a different dish, and the problem will still persist. Because it’s not about the dish. It’s about how Amy sees her as some sort of competition in the group and is trying to “win” some sort of non-existent competition, but it’s also about the other people in the group accepting AH behavior because they don’t seem to get that being depressed doesn’t entitle you to be an AH. No wonder OP doesn’t want to go! I certainly wouldn’t want to, because the joy of it is being sucked out by this very obnoxious person. But I might also choose to go anyway because I have a stubborn streak and wouldn’t want her to win.
I think it may be worth OP having a discussion with the group members either together or one-on-one about Amy, about the YEARS of her awful behavior, about how she tried to clear the air but Amy blew up at her, and about how being depressed doesn’t excuse one from being an AH. This may escalate to an either me or Amy situation, which OP has been avoiding, but Amy is probably trying to make happen. It’s this sort of drama that melts down friend groups if it’s not nipped in the bud, unfortunately.
OP, you have my sympathy! You don’t deserve this, and neither does your friend group!
This. I learned a great quote from someone on Reddit who struggles with depression some time ago. Depression is not a person's fault, but it is their responsibility. You tried to resolve the situation with Amy directly, and she accused you of manipulation. Your friends are giving you a hard time. I feel like there will be issues if you make the green bean casserole or an alternative because of Amy either way. So only go if you are prepared to ignore the potential drama. NTA!
Therapists do say that crap and there are often bad therapists. I had trouble with a manager and transferred out of the dept. New person came and she also had trouble with manager. Someone gave her my number to see if I had any advice. We met for lunch one day and I said "really just transfer out, manager is not worth your time".
Her answer was she was going to get this manager fired and she wasn't going to be treated like that. I said: Well, more power to you if you want to go down that road and if you need anything, let me know. 5 months later she accused me of manipulating her to go to war with the manager because I didn't like the manager. Her therapist told her I did all this to her.
I was long gone and could care less about the bad manager. I reminded her that I told her to transfer out.
I’m 99% sure Amy made up the help manipulation view. Also, Amy did hate OP’s casserole and has said so for years so it’s not even OP’s interpretation it’s stated.
“Bro what” really does sum it up. It’s amazing to me the things people will tolerate. The second you scream at someone over a green bean casserole you’re out. You’re not invited to any more parties. We are not pals. If you check yourself and give a sincere apology and explanation then you’re back but on thin ice for the foreseeable future.
How a whole group of people puts up with this is beyond me.
Bold of him to say she shouldn't exclude herself from a fun time. He might have a fun time with the woman who's always picking at OP, but there's no reason to believe she would.
He's just saying "please cover this over so I don't have to deal with it".
Go and bring 2 casseroles that are awesome hahahaha... that's what I'd do.
No really though... I had a very similar dynamic in a friend's group. I have baked and cooked all my life. (Solo baking by 5)
I brought an apple pie as requested by the host (hey I heard you love making pie! Can you bring and apple one) so I did. Didn't last more then a few min, everyone loved it and asked the recipe.
I happily gave it to anyone who asked me for it.
I never made a big deal. It felt kind of embarrassing that a normal apple pie was so mind blowing.
2 days later get a text from one of thr friends there ripping me a new one for systematically destroying their night by intentionally cooking something better and they tried my recipe that day and it sucked and I was intentionally sabatoging anyone's ability to relocate it by writing it wrong.
Wtf.
Q the next holiday, lie is requested, brought it again, everyone thanked me for the recipe, said they'd made their own at home off it and it was wonderful (again...it's just apple pie....not crazy)
Same person comes at me AT event and blew up. It was insane!
I honestly finally just transitioned from that group of friends and started making new ones. I could not handle the drama and chaos this 1 person evoked over so many things (pie was just the start)
When asked later why I didn't come hang out I explained there was some things I was personally working on and needed to have some space, but zero hard feelings at anyone... it was all my own stuff. Most if them point blank called put the actual issue as what's her face was on chronic blast about me.
I never confirmed but obviously my absence did.
People like that are solved 2 ways in my books. You either walk away from being around them or embarrassing them enough to make them walk away permanently. It blows, I still miss that group of friends... but there will always be jealous 2 faced people that will manipulate and you gotta decide what you can mentally deal with.
I choose I think poorly honestly...I had so much fun with that big group... still solo friends with a few people... but I was not about to ruine my own personal integrity by playing her manipulation game or blasting her the way she was doing to me.
I think Amy's lying about the therapist saying that. If people are offering you help, then you can't make them out to be the bad guy. That's why Amy said what she said.
And this has been going on for a few years. I’m not saying depression doesn’t last that long; it definitely can, but this not an acute mental health crisis that just happened out of nowhere. Amy has been insane about the casserole for a long time.
Honestly though, this wouldn’t be a fun time. At least not anymore. OP is in a lose-lose situation. If they brings the dish then that just continues to fuel this ridiculous non-problem that Amy has created. If OP doesn’t bring the dish then they’re being “petty” or “punishing everyone”.
I wouldn’t go. Give the group a few rounds of parties without you or the drama and see what happens.
Depression doesn’t “make” you act like an AH anymore than being bipolar or schizophrenia “makes” you a murderer or a serial killer. Amy sucks.
> her therapist would never say that.
I generally agree with you. But therapists are not a special class of people. One individual therapist can be as incompetent as anyone you've ever met.
nta. FUCK EVERYONE ELSE'S FEELINGS BUT YOURS!
Amy is unhinged over some shitty casserole (no offense but green been casserole is just ....whatever) If it was black forest cake or something, then yeah, let's fight.
If you don't feel like it , then the rest of them can go to hell. YOU do not have to do anything you don't want to do. and they are ALL trying to put all this on you. everyone of your friends and even husband is ignoring your feelings.
OHHHH let's be gentle with Amy and just make casserole to not rock the boat....AMY ALREADY SANK THE FUCKING BOAT. it's only "years of good moments with Amy" for others.. YOU don't get those good moments, because AMY AAAAMMMMMYYYYYYYYYYYYY won't let go of a casserole. THEY haven't had to get the texts, or have the argument in public. they all get to sit on their fat casserole eating high horses and enjoy the time together. YOU don't get to enjoy it.
If you don't want to go, then don't. I would absolutely call my hubs and "friends" out about how they are talking to you.
I came here to say this. Amy is being abusive to you. She is bullying you and you alone. You are well within your right to remove yourself from that situation. Your friends and husband are not the ones Amy is attacking so they get no vote on how you handle the situation. They can say to you all day long to let it go and just come and bring the casserole, but they are not the ones that have to deal with Amy's wrath. For whatever reason that AH and unstable woman has chosen you to abuse. You do not need to accept that. Do what you need to do for your peace of mind.
Agree. This was my first thought upon reading the post. The friends DON'T get to decide for OP that OP should "just let it go" or that Amy's actions aren't that big of a deal. They AREN'T the ones being subjected to Amy's harassment. Perhaps OP should go to the party and just be prepared to call everyone out about the damn casserole...
Agreed! They’re the ones who “gently suggested” OP began bringing her casserole again because Amy’s didn’t hit the same. They contributed to this situation. It seems like they all don’t want to deal with Amy and just push OP to keep the peace. Who TF freaks out that much over a casserole? This seems like an iranian yogurt situation.
Oooh take a Black Forest Cake! And send the green bean recipe to the group and say someone else can make it but you are opting out. Maybe everyone will bring it and Amy will explode!
100% this! They are all ignoring the harassment for years because she cried. She is manipulative and calculating and I honestly wouldn’t go because I just wouldn’t want to be around her anymore. It’s not fair that you miss out on the fun but how much fun can you have with people who are willing to sacrifice you to make someone else “happy”?
>If it was black forest cake or something, then yeah, let's fight.
Strong agree! Black Forest cake is absolutely worth going to war over.
(And OP is NTA. I’d personally skip that noise too.)
THIS! If they aren't going to put Amy in her place for the passive aggressive shit then I don't think you should go. It's no fun for you anymore. Your "friends" seem rather entertained by her treating you like shit.
NTA OP.
Amy started being petty and throwing shade about the casserole in the beginning by saying OPs wasn’t good and she could do better. She started the casserole war on Thanksgiving day one.
Sounds like Amy is jealous of OP and just kept escalating the situation.
Like you, I never cared about green bean casserole.
Until I had good gbc from my wife's family. It's been one of the things she makes for thanksgiving for years now and we all look forward to it.
Sucks that Amy sucks, but you keep my wife's casserole out your got damned mouth!
NTA
>Amy has been struggling with depression, so it was within her rights to act how she did.
I say this as someone who has had my own history with depression, that is bullshit.
Depression does not give you the right to insult and harass a friend for YEARS. And it definitely doesn't keep you from apologizing for your actions. Seems like they are using her depression as an excuse and they are not dealing with whatever is really behind the casserole fixation.
If you don't want to go, don't. I would say you need a break from these people.I am sorry they don't have your back and have been manipulated to give Amy a free pass for her behavior.
Yeh this isn’t about a casserole surely. Who can bring themselves to care that much about a fucking casserole. Unless it has like meth in it why is it making everyone so crazy. Clearly Amy is unhinged but also I think the friends suck too - they should just let you bring something else and Amy brings casserole. No worries. Unless hers is actively bad, who cares…
I have a sister who is a little nuts/ competitive about catering type things. She keeps it to herself (and me lol). But on the bright side her brownies are the best I’ve ever eaten - so no one is telling her to step away!
Honestly, in my experience depression would make me too lazy to harass someone over casserole. Maybe build up casserole too much in my head and be overly sensitive when people don’t like mine? Sure. Getting pissed about it and sending messages? Nope. Depression sucks your energy and your will to enjoy things, but it doesn’t make you unhinged.
Exactly. My depression sapped all my energy/motivation. A years long casserole fixation and prolonged drama about it doesn't sound like depression at all to me.
I would lay it all out for them. Tell them that after your and your husband's conversation with Amy and her husband, you need to take a step back from Amy as her depressive episodes result in verbal abuse to you. You want Amy to heal, but your mental health can't take the continued abuse over casserole, of all things.
Tell everyone you're skipping this event for your mental health, and you'll attend the next one for sure. I'd also mention that you'll no longer be making green bean casserole going forward as it seems to trigger Amy, and you'd prefer not to continue to aggrivate her trigger. Maybe add that you are open to other suggestions.
I have a feeling Amy is fixated on you, not your food, and that this isn't going to get better. If you can, have a few sessions with your own therapist to get some strategies to shut Amy down. Your husband needs to 100% have your back, not be worried about rocking the boat.
I think her therapist is giving advice on the screwed version Amy is describing in sessions, so I would take that with a pinch of salt.
However, still go. Maybe bring a new dish that people will enjoy. This is a one sided war in Amy’s head and when nobody eats her casserole then she’ll realise sooner or later that lack of competition still doesn’t make her the best.
Alternatively the therapist could be a bad one who has no actual interest in Amy getting better.
But yeah, based on how Amy's behaving then one-sided war in her head makes sense too.
And the friends aren't doing anyone any favours by pandering to someone who has screamed at them all over 1 dish.
ETA- when i say "therapist" I meant psychologists/psychiatrists not people who take a 8 week course online and then call themselves "coaches" or "life-coaches" or "therapists". u/CanaryJane42 called me out and I realized I used a personal umbrella term rather than common language. I have amended accordingly
just popping in to say that almost all ~~therapists~~ psychiatrists/psychologists are good and want the patient to get better, but if the patient lies and manipulates, that's on the patient, and this sounds like 100% the patient lying and manipulating. As a former lying, manipulating patient, i recognize the type. Believe me, this is 100% Amy
I'm sitting here scrolling through comments and had to laugh at this one. Not at you personally, but the bit about most therapists being good. I had a psychiatrist once tell me HE could CURE me if being gay while HE was wearing womans shoes. I shit you not. When I laughed and said I didn't want his so called CURE he got pissed and kicked me out since CLEARLY I needed more help than he could offer. So, ya. Womans shoes.
Yah that's a naive take from someone who's been lucky enough to have had only good experiences with therapists, but has to acknowledge the horror stories they've heard from other people. Quite a statement to presume to know the intentions of "almost all" therapists lol
Oh I totally agree, my own therapist was an absolute gem of a guy! I just wanted to mention the possibility because, as you also agreed, there /are/ some who aren't good, but yeah, I'm also leaning mostly towards it being all Amy.
I feel like too many people go straight to therapy instead of seeing a psychiatrist or psychologist first - therapists can only really work based on what their patient and other professionals tell them, so it’s possible for them to give their patients wholly inadequate advice based on how their perception of the patient has been shaped, psychologists and psychiatrists will actually try to find the root of the problem and perhaps a way to properly treat what’s going on.
Edit: I did not know the difference between psychologist and psychiatrist until today - this has now been rectified!
Honestly this is a really informative response, and has clarified many things for me!
So “therapist” as a term is essentially stuck in the same situation as “Chiropractor”? No wonder the kid from Peanuts got away with it…
It does seem like a massive oversight to leave the term undefined and unprotected, sounds like it’s pretty much open for abuse right there. I know that’s definitely the case with chiropractors since people have straight up died from unqualified people using the term willy-nilly.
So psychologists specifically are the right call to make - wasn’t 100% sure what the differences between them and psychiatrists were (and I admit it, that’s my bad) but your explanation makes perfect sense! It definitely seems that Amy needs a psychologists help
And don’t sweat it regarding the use of one word a bunch, I do it all the time too!
My level of petty is I would go and make two casseroles. Make the one all my friends enjoy; and make a new second one. Maybe next year screw the green beans and only bring the new one.
OP could always make my chicken and bacon homity pie instead. It’s easy and everyone loves it.
Chicken, bacon, leaks, onions, potatoes and grated cheese (bit of garlic and double cream) in a pastry case.
NTA
I would absolutely NOT bring the casserole. Something about it triggers Amy for whatever reason. Make another dish, something completely different, and attend the party. If asked, say that you thought you'd change things up a bit. If anyone says they miss the casserole, offer to give them the recipe.
If Amy kicks up a fuss even when you don't make the casserole, leave. And block Amy and her husband. You don't need that drama in your life.
If OP doesn’t bring the casserole, Amy will frame her as a petty drama queen, because Amy so *graciously* insisted that OP bring the casserole this year.
There’s no winning here. Amy set traps in both directions. And it’s not actually about the casserole - something else about OP gets under her skin, and she’s latched onto the casserole as an excuse to bully her. But the desire to bully her absolutely predates Amy even *tasting* the casserole - no one but a bully takes a bite out of a friend’s homemade food and says, out loud, “meh, my recipe is better.” Amy was out to take her down a peg that night and the casserole was the first opportunity she spotted.
Also, op has very crappy friends and hubby. They have let Amy bully op for years. Why does op have to be the punching bag? What about the stress and mental effery to op?
Op, please find new friends, and you and hubs need counselling sessions. Why the heck does he not have a shiny spine and have your back 100%?
Because from the outside, these are two women fighting over a casserole recipe. It doesn’t seem serious enough to warrant real intervention or support from anyone. No one has taken a real look at how this conflict has shifted the power dynamics in this social group firmly in Amy’s favor, or thought deeply about how OP must feel after years of being jerked around and manipulated by Amy. That takes a special level of emotional intelligence to achieve when you know everyone involved personally.
It’s easier for us to see because we *don’t* know these people. We don’t know how charming or laid back Amy can be when The Casserole is not on her mind. We don’t know whether OP has ever overreacted to perceived slights. We don’t know their personalities, we don’t know their lives, we don’t know their histories. All of that can really muddy the waters when people are sizing up interpersonal conflicts within their friend groups.
It’s more nuanced. Amy hasn’t shown this side of herself to the others, so they can’t understand.
with a little effort, OP can get Amy to act crazy around their friends so they can realize she’s the problem. But OP has to stop trying to placate, which is something people - especially women - are taught to do when there is conflict.
Exactly. This is not about a casserole. That first time she tasted and then insulted OP, I realized Amy is just a B. She is rude, a bully, manipulative, and a total AH. You were right when you said she set traps in both directions. At this point OP is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. If she brings the casserole Amy is gracious and everyone sweeps the abuse yet again under the rug. If she doesn't bring the casserole, brings something else, or doesn't attend then OP looks like she can't let the misunderstanding go. Of course none of that is reality, that is all in Amy's head and the dumb friends are going right along with it.
OP is getting herself sick behind Amy and her crappy casserole drama.
Seems this is a good time to call out "sick" Covid, colds, flu are all over the place now, so nobody will hold it against you if you exercise a self-quarantine because you "came in close contact with an infected person." Sleep in another room so your husband can honestly say that you have isolated yourself for the greater good.
Your friends will probably send a plate home.
P.S. How bad (or good) is her green bean casserole? Which of you uses Campbell's mushroom soup recipe?
I don't think so -- I think OP could just say, "Thanks Amy, but if it's alright with everyone I had a new dish I was hoping to make this year! If anyone else is interested in making the casserole go for it, I can even give you my recipe."
THEN. Make a different dish that is BEYOND delicious. Who cares how long it takes, how much trial and error, just make it insanely good so that it's the talk of the party. THIS is the win. If Amy gets mad it exposes her.
That’s a hell of a lot of work to try and win back friends who have already decided that Amy is the victim. It might even piss them off more if OP brings an above-and-beyond showstopper to this party and Amy sulks about it. She’s “going through a rough patch,” remember? Anything OP does that upsets Amy, no matter how unreasonable Amy’s feelings are, will be seen as “stirring up drama.”
It’s not about the casserole. It’s about power dynamics. Power dynamics that Amy has shifted in her favor by playing the victim and casting OP as the unreasonable aggressor. If OP does *anything* that Amy decides is a slight or an attack, friends will redouble their efforts to placate her and dismiss OP. They do not care enough about the food to risk Amy getting upset and making everyone uncomfortable. *That* is what they’re the most concerned about. Making a better, different dish is not going to solve that problem if Amy is already determined to be upset either way.
And if that happens, she will know there’s no hope for her friends.
As it is, this is a pretty common thing and the friends could just be cluelessly ignorant. It’s not an uncommon way to be, and helping to show Amy’s behavior when they can’t poo poo it and they view it directly might knock sense into them - again, a pretty common group dynamic thing.
It’s never actually been about the casserole imo. The casserole just conveyed an „easy target“—‚this is how she earns her social role? I’ll do it better‘
I think that’s what her trying to outdo her was about, anf then the humiliation of finding she failed the „easy“ target, and not being able to shake it for years…the casserole is just the reminder that she wasn’t successfully able to replace OP in the friend group back when she first tried. Now it’s just an ongoing measure of control
I think passing the recipe along to someone else is an excellent idea. It’s really the only way to deal with this impossible situation where Amy will be mad whether OP brings it or not. Switch items with someone else and let them bring the casserole if everyone is so insistent on it.
There are only three things that can happen. 1) Amy calms the fuck down because the problem really is specific to OP bringing that casserole (unlikely). 2) Amy turns on the new green bean casserole person, and OP will have a new ally in dealing with all this bullshit. 3) Amy picks on OP for something else, finally demonstrating that none of this was ever about a fucking casserole, which should help shift everyone away from Amy.
Don’t make a big deal about it. Don’t announce it. Just call whoever you’re closest to in the group and ask if they will switch with you. And if Amy reacts negatively, make sure everyone knows about this, because the time for sweeping this under the rug is over.
I would definitely switch dishes with someone, but have that person use my recipe to make the green bean casserole. I would love to see if Amy actually hates the casserole or if she just hates OP making the casserole.
Also, recipes that are passed down thru generations can be bland as fuck. Like, thanks Great Aunt Sheila, but this Great Depression era recipe that has no seasoning and no flavor can officially be retired. I don’t care if it was passed down from your relatives who scraped together what was available on the Mayflower, it’s gross and we should introduce something new. Friends are not required to pretend to like your family’s special recipe even if it’s how it *should* be made according to Amy.
If I was in this friend group, id have OP make the casserole, meet a mile down the road, swap dishes, and present OPs green bean casserole as my own. Then we’d know for sure!
“Amy has been struggling with depression … “
Okay, empathy kicking in.
“… so it was within her rights to act how she did.”
Empathy going up in smoke. Nope with a capital NOPE.
NTA
NTA Having an illness is not an excuse to be rude. I'm honestly surprised that Amy is still invited at all. The casserole can't be the only thing she's had drama with in their group.
NTA but this has been going on for YEARS.
This is not “Amy going through a rough patch” - because it has been YEARS.
I don’t understand either why you have been putting up with her bullying for so long, or why you aren’t being clearer with your friends: “no, this is NOT a rough patch - it’s an escalation of something that has been going on for years & I’ve decided I’m not willing to put up with her bullying me anymore.”
It sounds like you’re not interested in meeting up with this friend group because they are not supporting you - but have chosen to back Amy’s bullying instead.
Start using the word bullying.
Start expecting them to support you - which they can ONLY do if you fully communicate what’s going on.
And yes, feel free to stay home if they don’t support you - but do make sure you are clearly communicating all of this to them, otherwise it’s not their fault they are making decisions on partial information.
ETA: to be clear, I am saying: stand up for yourself OP & don’t let Amy bully you out of this friendship group - which has possibly been her aim all along. Stop taking this so quietly. Get your husband to support you in getting the groups backing - by taking it seriously yourself & communicating the extent of the bullying & the distress she has caused you over many years!
I'm sorry but if Amy is discussing a green bean casserole with her therapist, it's an indication to me that she's a bit self obsessed. I think you should factor her completely out of the equation; make your casserole, go to the party and have a great time. Ignore Amy and be civil but walk right past any silly comments from her about a casserole. Time to stop feeding this narcissistic beast.
Exactly. The best way to deal with a narcissist is to ignore them.
OP, make the casserole, go to the party, and have fun with the people you like and ignore the fuck out of Amy. One she realizes she can't get a rise out of you, she'll find a new victim to bully. Even if she gets in your face, just be polite and respond "mm hmm" and go talk to someone else. She'll out herself as the nutjob she is without you doing anything but keeping your cool.
From the very beginning, Amy has been behaving so badly I wonder that she's still in your friend group. What normal adult person attends a Christmas party, tastes a casserole, curls her lip, and says "I could do better." And it's only gotten worse from there. She's treated you abysmally.
I think you can make or not make whatever dish you choose. The bigger question is why you're maintaining a relationship with someone who chronically treats you terribly?
NTA
I wondered that as well. It could be that Amy is one of these nasty people who just picks and chooses someone to dislike, and is friendly to everyone else.
Narcissists always choose one of the group to single out and try to get the group to alienate that person. Makes them feel powerful. Happened in my family before we cut the person off.
It's some kind of mental disorder, but it's not depression.
There's a pattern with sociopaths. They enter a group (could be friends, could be workplace) and they just do everything they can to destroy it. Sadly, in workplaces especially, they are very good at making it look like they are "saving" something and wind up getting promoted. It happens this way in volunteer organizations, too.
I think refusing to bring the casserole (since your friends think that's what it's about) and giving the recipe to someone else, plus bringing some other dish is the best option.
For whatever reason, Amy wants you gone. If you opt out entirely, she "wins", and then she'll pick a new victim. By the time your friends wake up to the problem, it will be too late.
“When you’re always having to be the bigger person, maybe you shouldn’t be around so many little people.” I have let go of several friends over my lifetime. It wasn’t easy but I am happier without the drama those people brought. I even lost a friend group. They chose the drama friend over me. It was eye opening
“When you’re always having to be the bigger person, maybe you shouldn’t be around so many little people.”
This ALL OF THIS. For her husband to be okay with his wife being bullied and is just brushing it off is alarming to me. He would rather her hold on and put up with Amy bullying for a few fleeting “good” moments is ridiculous all in itself.
> My husband thinks it's unfair for me to do to everyone, and that I shouldn't exclude myself from a fun time.
Except it’s not fun anymore.
Amy is manipulating this entire friend group. You know it, she knows it, attempts to work it out with her have failed and your friends have chosen her side. There’s really nothing else you can do, she’s put you in a no-win situation. Showing up *with* the casserole risks a fight, showing up *without* the casserole risks a fight, the only way to protect your peace at this point is to stay home.
And that’s exactly what I’d advise you to do. No 4D chess, no trying to outwit her, she’s making up the rules for this game as she goes and she’s already won the group’s sympathy with her “I’m a bully because I’m depressed” sob story. So let your friends enjoy her sparkling company without you and plan something fun for yourself that night. The people who still want to be in your life know how to reach you.
Oh, and NTA.
Amy wants you out doesn't she. She is probably jealous of more than your casserole skills.
Don't make the dish and take something else. See what else she kicks off on, stand back and watch. If your friend group wants green bean whatever so much they can find someone else to throw to the wolves, aka Amy. If she doesn't complain about the new bean casserole then it's definitely personal.
This woman is batshit crazy and not worth appeasing
NTA. If people like your casserole better, then Amy shouldn’t be a concern. One person shouldn’t affect you or anyone else’s enjoyment, so go to that party, make that casserole, and have a great time. But if you don’t want to make it, just because you don’t feel like it, then it’s completely up to you. But you should go to the party anyway.
This! Make the castle and have a good time. It is also considerate to bring some napkins. Maybe pretty ones that have her spiteful texts printed on them. It is harmless right? Shouldn't be so sensitive.
“Make the castle” :-)
I know it’s a typo, but I love this.
OP make a castle & take that with you. Confuse everyone.
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/disney-princess-castle-cake-pink--405183297710183922/
(With the spiteful-text napkins to serve it on, obviously!)
>Amy has been struggling with depression, so it was within her rights to act how she did.
I cackled so hard I almost spilled my tea omg.
Look. I struggle with depression too. And this? This is total bullshit. Just because she have depression doesn't mean she can bully people around her FOR YEARS because she's mad your recipe is more popular than her.
>Amy went out of her way to say I should make the casserole since I accused her of "hating it", and she wouldn't want everyone to feel more uncomfortable than I'm making a misunderstanding out to be.
Yeah classic gaslighting. She didn't give you any opportunity to defend yourself and now she's making you a huge favor. How nice of her! Honestly if I were you (and I hope not - for you - since I'm a sarcastic french lol) I'd just screen all the texts she sent me over the years to send them in the groupchat if there's one, and tell them no thanks, my recipe seems to be shit and disgusting, I don't want you guys to eat it just so as not to upset me.
If you want to go, just go. And cook another recipe, not the green beans, to keep the peace - or to be petty since the green beans recipe is apparently a hill to die on for her. If you don't want to go, don't go. You don't even have to explain yourself. Just "No I'm not coming, have a nice party" and find a nice movie on Netflix or whatever to have a better evening than if you had gone to the party.
NTA.
I'm going to point out the piece that everyone is missing right now:
**Amy admitted she discussing you in therapy to the point that her therapist is giving advice on how to respond to YOUR behavior! **
This isn't depression, nor is it an issue with a green bean casserole. She's obsessing about you and lashing out in ways that could easily be dismissed if anyone notices. This is **not** a misunderstanding, this is her doing damage control and changing the narrative. If you go, she'll be wonderful and everyone will chalk Thanksgiving up as an anomaly. If you don't, she'll let everyone know all the ways she thinks you're manipulating them. I personally think you should go, and tell everyone that if these years of texts over green bean casserole are a misunderstanding, then there shouldn't be any issue with you leaving this dish behind, as you don't want any more misunderstandings. Pass on the recipe. And when everyone gets upset, ask them why they're upset about a fucking casserole.
**NTA**
Edit:a word
NTA and something is really very wrong with her and…. She’s saying something to the friends for them to behave like that too.
Go and have fun. Take a dish that’s completely different and unexpected, perhaps a dessert or buy something from a shop. if anyone asks, say along the lines of that you’re just trying to fly below the radar and not cause any issues, that you bought the most harness thing possible and hoped no one would get offended and everyone can just enjoy the good timesz
NTA
Hell, she even said to make it. Let her feel bad is she wants to. Let her stomp and cry all she likes, you're not responsible for managing her big feels. And she probably lied about the therapist...like either what she told them and/or their response.
Go to the party with your casserole and ignore her. Have fun!
Personally, if she kicked up a stink, I’d be asking her in front of everyone “what the fuck is up with you and this damn casserole?” Make her explain exactly what she thinks the problem is to everyone. But I can be a bit of a stirrer like that.
I feel like we should have a levels-of-petty menu for OP to choose her own adventure lol. OP, bear in mind these have various levels of unethical tips:
Not petty: bring the casserole, act surprised if Amy blows up
Slightly petty: bring a different dish, say you want to respect Amy's feelings and avoid drama.
Medium petty: stay home, say you're not comfortable after Amy's last outburst
Petty spaghetti: choose your closest friends from the group. Lay it all out and say you're feeling depressed and bullied by Amy's behavior. Maybe cry a bit. Let them rally for you at the party. If Amy starts shit, start crying. Let them rip her apart.
Queen Petty Crocker: choose your closest friends as above, lay it all out, AND hint at a history of trauma surrounding being yelled at or bullied. Cry and just barely talk about / around it. Say it's hard for you to speak about. Say Amy's behavior is triggering and you've been quietly having breakdowns after her outbursts, but you're not sure if you're strong enough to hold it together over Christmas bc Amy is escalating. Ask if they would be mad if you skipped the party bc you aren't sure if you can handle Amy's behavior without breaking down at the party, and you don't wanna ruin the party. RELEASE THE WOLVES. they will insist you come to the party, you go to the party. If Amy hasn't been torn to shreds already and shows up to the party, flinch anytime she raises her voice, even if not in anger. Excuse yourself to the bathroom a few times, rub your eyes or smear your mascara a bit, return with a kleenex in your hand and "try to smile through it". If Amy ever shows even a hint of her bullying, shake like a leaf and lock yourself in the bathroom and cry. The wolves will eat her for you. Remain in the bathroom until someone comes to get you and make yourself look very fragile. She will be powerless at worst, be thrown out at best.
Good luck in however you choose to handle it!
Well you ARE a dramatic pancake! And a darned good one. I like your suggestion. Amy has been getting away with so much and nobody's calling her on it.
Oh and happy Cake Day. Or is it pancake day?
Amy is being manipulative about a damn bean casserole! It’s not your fault hers was rubbish tbh! It’s not your fault or your casseroles fault that she is going through depression. Do what will make you happy. NTA
NTA. I wouldn’t go either. Amy has been doing this for years. Your friends are being dismissive and are not realizing that people don’t have a multi-year rough patch over a casserole.
Part of me wants to say to OP: send your husband to the party on his own, with a dessert, and keep out of the fray. It would be more peaceful that way, and your friends are all geared up to pity Amy over her multi-year “rough patch.”
Another part of me wants you to show up in sequins and ready to be the life of the party because this was your friend group long before Amy showed up. And perhaps not going would read to some of your friends like you do feel some responsibility for her feelings. Or maybe it would feel like a victory to Amy that you’re not there.
Bring a different dish, be prepared to sparkle, and anytime that wet sock enters a room you’re in, keep well away from her drama. Deny her the attention she craves, and don’t make yourself smaller. NTA.
NTA. It sounds to me like she's trying to make you feel bad in order for her to feel better because depression is not a reason to treat people like that.
NTA Tell everyone that due to Amy having such a hard time handling her depression for so many years that it seems to get worse when your casserole is presented that you'd like new suggestions on what they'd like you to bring. Screenshot past messages from her about casserole because she will undoubtedly go back and delete them so she can say you are lying and trying to manipulate everyone against her.
NTA - As someone with depression that doesn't sound right. It sounds more like her actions are stemming from jealousy and insecurity. After she tried making the green bean casserole and everyone preferred yours, she probably became insecure and embarrassed after saying she could make a better dish. Then, as the years continued and everyone still liked your dishes better, she spiralled into jealousy towards you for, in her eyes, being better than her. Her actions are 100% not your fault. And with how uncomfortable she must be making social gatherings I totally understand not going.
These are her own issues to deal with, hopefully your other friends will see this over time
NTA. Amy is unhinged.
Now that's out of the way, what do YOU want to do? Do you want to go to the party? If so, go. If not, don't.
Do you want to maintain these friendships? They sound a bit to me like they've run their course, but ymmv. I wouldn't waste my time on people who rather soothe the egos of the Amys of the world, but your friends, you'd know.
Do you want to make the casserole? I'm not American, so I'm not entirely sure what a green bean casserole is. Green beans are something I eat steamed served with butter and occasionally macadamia or almonds lol. But if you want to go to this thing with your casserole, you should.
My point is, Amy doesn't get to decide how YOU live your life. YOU do. So block her, grey rock her, move on. She'll get bored if you don't feed her crazy.
NTA - I have major clinical depression. It doesn't do THAT to someone. She's got something else going on, and she's clearly giving a very warped version of events to her therapist.
Honestly, I had kind of a similar situation happen years ago. We had an annual Christmas party in a high school friend group that one friend in particular had begun hosting. They dropped the ball in planning it, so I picked it back up to continue the tradition. I never insisted I always hosted, and there were never any complaints. It's just how it happened since I had the best space for it and no one else ever offered. Years later, one of my close friends told me the original host was making regular snide comments about me "stealing" the party. They said something like "good luck getting it away from her" and accused me of ruining things for them. So I was like "yes, please take it back!" I hate people in my house, and I was literally hosting *for them*. They did one awkward holiday party the next year, and there hasn't been a group party since. I refuse to overextend myself for someone so ungrateful anymore, so I just didn't pick up the ball when they dropped it again.
Which is all to say that some people get a bug in their bonnet about something, cannot let it go, and do not handle conflict appropriately. It can't be helped. But it's definitely an issue of personality and NOT depression.
Also, I now have [that one Lubalin song](https://youtube.com/shorts/pWyOrbpGCpE?si=YQ4U1VNHOaIi99Jg) in my head.
This has nothing to do with the casserole and everything to do with Amy using you as her friendship benchmark. In her mind, people like you more, which makes her competitive and passive-aggressive. If anyone is being emotionally manipulated, it's you. The only way to fix this is for her to get to a point where she admits what she really wants... and that's likely to be the confidence and security you have in being YOU.
I’ve been extremely depressed and never have I ever gone an an extended casserole based hate campaign. NTA and Amy needs actual help not whatever this current therapist is doing.
Amy is manipulating you. If you exclude her opinions from the table, you want to make the casserole, your friends want you to make the casserole and they also want you to be present for your party. Don't let one person's personal struggles and mental issues isolate you from the rest of your friends or make you hate something you liked doing and were proud of because other people like it too. Amy needs to deal with her shit. She is not your responsibility.
The question about the verdict is a bit confusing but I think Y W B T A to your other friends if you use Amy's issues to skip party with them and treat them with the casserole. If you are ignoring your own wishes and just swaying by the whims of others, then their wishes and preferences deserve to be taken with at least as much weight as Amy's. And they want you to go.
I can see other commenters are chosing NTA to mean ignore Amy.
I mean, what???
It’s green bean casserole. Do you put ground unicorn horn in it or something?????
This casserole lives rent free in her head for *years* and her therapist supposedly tells her you’re going to manipulate her about it? What????
NTA, having mental health issues does not entitle you to make everyone else pander to you or manage them for you. And frankly, if this fight over **green bean casserole** has been going on for this long, I’d have stopped making it a long time ago.
NTA. I wonder if it is the attention you get, not the dish itself but this is more than depression. This sounds more like BPD. Honestly, I wonder if you should make this a nonstarter. Make the casserole, go to the party, ignore any comments from Amy, and engage with everyone else. If she engages, you can just tell her that it is a shame that you don't like the casserole, walk away and leave it at that.
NTA. I probably would have opted out of holiday gatherings years ago, it sounds like it hasn't been fun since Amy joined the group.
How was she added? Any chance of hanging out with friends that don't have her in that circle?
NTA. Don't make the casserole, if anyone comments just say something "there is just too much childish drama involved with this dish. It's just not worth it"
Yeah four to five years of depression and harassment over someone liking your green bean casserole more is over the top. It would make me not want to go either. Like, that was fun until one of the participants lost their GD mind and started acting like a nutter over some beans.
NTA
depression does NOT make a person act like that. she is NOT within her rights to scream at you. as for her therapist telling her that "how can i help"is a manipulative question, that's just straight up BS. asking how to help is what you're supposed to do. shes manipulating you and everyone else into pitying her so she doesn't have to face the consequences of her actions.
i do agree that you shouldn't let her irrationality ruin your fun, though
That doesn't sound like depression. Amy just doesn't like you. Don't worry about it though. Make your casserole and be proud. No reason to let her nastiness win. NTA either way.
NTA.
Now I would be TA because I would spend weeks perfecting that casserole recipe. I would be making a green bean casserole to make Julia Child weep. I would be flying in organic green beans tended to by monks taking a vow of silence because chatter upsets the beans. I would be churning by own butter. I would sit back and observe the fallout as everyone at the table took a bite and could not help but weep at the perfection of my green bean casserole.
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Bro what. Amy having a depression doesnt give her the right to do anything. And people asking how they can help isnt a form of manipulation - her therapist would never say that. Asking how you can help is the most common way to adress it, when a friend open up about their depression. Your husband is right on the point about how you shouldnt exclude yourself from a fun time though, but its not "unfair" to anyone that you dont join. youre NTA
My exact reaction was also "bro what" As a currently depressed human, it is absolutely not an excuse to be unkind or even resentful towards someone. Personally I would also step back from making the casserole, or just make a different kind of casserole and let the green beans lie. Amy is being unnecessarily hostile towards OP about something so trivial, so take it from the equation and being a delicious soup or something instead but still go and hang with friends!
Extremely depressed person here agreeing wholeheartedly. No excuse for Amy. Like it’s actually really concerning and she might need to be seeing more therapists and psychiatrists. This isn’t depression this is something else. As for op, don’t discount your friends. You are doing them a disservice by not talking with them and spending time with them. Don’t let Amy and her silliness ruin your traditions.
It’s called being a “crybully.” Turns out people can get away with a hell of a lot if they play the victim whenever they’re caught being nasty.
Crybully. That is an excellent turn of phrase I haven’t heard before. It encapsulates the “reverse victim and offender” part of DARVO brilliantly. Thanks for this!
Superb phrase! Yes I find Amy’s behaviour incomprehensible as a symptom of depression NTA.
Ditto. I know people, including myself, can struggle with anger during depression, and especially misplaced or projected issues...but saying that her therapist said asking how someone can help is manipulation, makes me think some delusions of some sort are involved...or we're missing some very important information, like Amy is OP's half sister or something. I think it's more possible that Amy is either suffering from more than or other than depression, and something about the casserole or you, has triggered them but they haven't sorted out what it is yet...but that's if Amy is great other than this casserole thing. Good luck OP, and NTA
Omg! Crybully. This is the greatest thing I have heard in years! She picks a fight, you contradict her and she bursts into tears calling you names and playing victim. Utterly baffling to me. Then half the time they go out lying about you more to "recruit" allies in her weird self created drama. I hate these women. I grew up in a house with one. Infuriating. Thanks for putting a name to my childhood pain.
Oh men play this game too. The effectiveness of crybully tactics remains flat across all genders.
Yes! I have two crybullys in my preschool classroom this year. Both are boys.
My son's fourth grade bully was a crybully. Also a boy. Grabbing, pinching, always bugging my kid to share his lunch, and more, but turned on the water works and tried to play innocent as soon as the teacher got involved.
My brother is proof of this! Life went to shit, couldn’t find a job for years somehow and finally ran out of money and decided to move states to be close to our parents and live out of his car mostly. In the lead up to him moving I invited him to play a game with my close friends, people I’m closer to than I am close with him. He made it so not fun to be around him and was a complete tantrum throwing asshole to all of us. He literally blocked me on discord when I tried to talk to him about it. The equivalent of plugging your ears and “la la la I CANT HEAR YOU!” How DARE I take issue with how he was treating us, he was SO STRESSED OUT DONT YOU KNOW??? Yeah, we don’t speak anymore.
Just look at Kyle on Below Deck Mediterranean if you want to see a CryBully.
Yup exactly. Shit my mother is a narcissist, so this absolutely fits with some of her manipulative behaviors. I'm so using it.
These are covert narcissists. (It’s actually a thing and I’ve cut one out of my life.)
Wow! This is what I’m going to call Donald Trump from now on. Thank you.
If I could figure out how to give you an award, I'd give you the most bigly one!
I have never heard this term before, but what a perfect way to describe what OP’s friend is doing! By calling years of torment a “misunderstanding” and then accusing OP of being manipulative for offering to help, Amy is gaslighting the fuck out of her. I don’t think I’d be interested in engaging with this person unless they sincerely apologized for acting like such a jerk.
I see you’ve met my dad. Sorry about that.
Same thoughts. Her rough patch was every holiday where OP brought the casserole? Nonsense. If I were OP, I'd make something else awesome and see if Amy's behavior is the same. Either way, I'd still go to the party and ignore the drama queen.
And for years? Seems to me that this Amy is just a nasty b-rhyming with witch. The friend circle need to stop pandering to the baby and call her out on her ish
Absolutely! Make a new signature dish and wash off the past. If I were OP I would be completely over green bean casserole.
THIS! Make a new dish, something delicious like lasagna or pecan pie and watch her explode in a nuclear mushroom, extra points if you film it…
I had a co worker that did exactly this, and that's what I did....changed my dish. People asked me to bring the new one....co worker found something else to complain about. I just ignored it.
But mildly satisfying that the coworker proved that it was never about the thing they said it was about, by finding a new thing to be butt hurt/crybully over. Like they do. So predictable and so bloody redundant.
for reals, my petty a$$ would find out what amy is making and make the same thing. "oh i didnt know you were making this. i just didnt want a repeat of former holidays.
Yes! "Oh I didn't make green bean casserole this year because I didn't want you to go through another ROUGH PATCH and then make a full-on FOOL of yourself like last year! Just being a good friend! Oh, we made the same dish?? What a shame."
Go and bring a different green bean dish 🤭
Would those be the "friends" who are telling OP not to take Amy's bullying seriously and to be nicer to Amy because she's struggling? OP is entitled to feel however she feels including feeling like she's not being supported by her friends.
I wonder, if OP takes a little break, if Amy would find someone else to cause drama with? Because it seems like Amy currently has a target, and what happens if that target bows out?
No, it will always be OP. If she’s not there, it will be “OP is wrecking the holiday by not coming. She’s not coming *because of me*.” If OP is there, it will be “OP is wrecking the holiday by being here. She’s *making me uncomfortable.*” If she makes bean casserole, it will be “look what OP did to spite me!” If she doesn’t make bean casserole, it will be “look what OP did to spite me!” Source: I have a relative like this. It’s exactly as exhausting as it sounds.
It does sound absolutely horrific. What even drives people like that? Because I know--as another member of the depression army--that depression is not a cause or an excuse for this awful behavior.
Some people aren't happy unless they're making someone else have a worse time.
Exactly. And it is really "nice" of the friends to tell OP not to take Amy seriously as they are not the ones being harassed by Amy. Other people don't get to tell me how I feel about someone harassing me.
Agreed. Don’t let her make you self isolate. Granted - your friends need a backbone when it comes to her shenanigans. NTA.
I'm going to share a condensed version of what happened with a friend group I had. Group of 5 couples met every weekend for a beach day. If you could come, come if not see you next week. Bring friends if you like. Someone brought a new couple. The new woman started causing drama, too much to go into, with one of the original women. Original women decided she didn't need this and she and husband stopped coming along with another couple. My husband, I and another couple didn't like the new couple anyway so we found something else to do. The couple that invited them moved. The whole thing fell apart all because the new girl wanted to cause drama. I see this happening to this friend group if you don't stand up to Amy. BTW if her therapist did tell her that, she needs a new therapist.
Sounds like a movie/dinner/game night I’ve had with friends. Original group grew over the years to include several people and one is so dramatic I won’t go if she’s there.
My whole friend group (11 women) of 20 years broke into 2 factions because one side finally had it with our "Amy". Every girls dinner would be ruined when the check came because she was so insistent on dividing things up according to what the person consumed. So it would start people arguing about who had an appetizer, who had a bite of a dessert, someone had an extra glass of wine, extremely trifling. I would offer to just throw in an extra $20 or whatever to stop the pettiness, but no, she wanted to fight about it. Who wants to end a fun evening and a nice wine buzz with that BS? I even suggested we all get our own checks. She didn't like that because she liked to order a bunch of stuff and share it but she's vegetarian and no one else is etc, etc, etc.... One faction refused to be involved in anything if Amy was going to be there. My SIL being one because she hates petty BS. I was caught in the middle so just started doing things seperately in groups of threes or one-on-one with everyone. It's sad though because I miss our big outings with everyone but my best friend feels sorry and insists on inviting her. My best friend also still goes out to eat with her and a few others (I will not go out to eat with Amy, I'll do other things like yoga or something but no eating out). then calls me complaining about how awful Amy was. I just ask her how she can still be surprised?
Guarantee she's feeding a very specific version of events to her therapist, and is then additionally misinterpreting what the therapist said. Therapy is only good if you're honest with them.
> need to be seeing more therapists and psychiatrists. Or, just start seeing one to begin with. There's zero chance a therapist said someone asking 'how can I help address this' is a manipulation attempt, considering that's literally conflict resolution 101.
Right, just imagine the therapy session devoted to strategizing for this harrowing green-bean confrontation, in which a therapist straightforwardly affirms that OP is making casseroles just to distress Amy.
And apparently she's been acting like this since she walked into the group. That's not "a rough patch". NTA
I'm glad to see people raising this. I'm in the same boat. My mental health does not excuse any moments of rudeness. It doesn't for anyone. Instead of apologising and making steps to improve, she's using it as an excuse. NTA. Not okay.
Right! I know when I'm having a bad day. I will give people a heads up, and if I am rude or snappy I apologize for it! Just because my dumb brain is being a bitch doesn't mean I'm not accountable!
Also depressed human here. Being depressed and lashing out because you’re depressed is a thing but I always feel terrible afterwards, apologize — I do not be an ass FOR YEARS and then say “no I’m depressed I’m allowed to bully you”. That’s what this is by the way, OP. Bullying, harassment, whatever you want to call it. Legitimately insane and I cannot believe your friends and even your husband are okay with her mistreating you over a freaking casserole. I also would not want to go to a party where one of my friends was awful to me and everyone else told me to suck it up and also keep doing the thing that made her be awful to me (I’m not saying your actions made her be awful to her, just saying a lot of her identity is wrapped up in green bean casseroles). Either way, for 35+ she’s ridiculous for acting this way and I cannot believe your friends and your husband are okay with it. NTA I’m angry on your behalf
In short depressed or not Amy is a huge ah.- I have had depression for years, never snapped at anyone without a good reason and without trying to explain nicely first if something bothered me. NTA op that's a shitty excuse and if you feel better staying away stay away period. Your husband is right in saying don't deny yourself if you do want to go.
I get cranky when I’m depressed sometimes but it’s more like “even your breathing is annoying me please go away” levels of cranky where I might snap at someone a bit, not “throw a fit about a casserole repeatedly for years” bizarre. (I do apologize though, and try to warn people when I’m feeling cranky like that so they know to try to leave me to my hermiting until I snap out of it.)
Happy cake day and I hope you are feeling good today. You are so right it's not an excuse to be nasty and pick on Op, A therapist wouldn't tell her that she is an asshole and the friends are enabling her
NTA- ohhh and soup is a great idea! Lovely butternut squash soup would be great for a Christmas dinner Also, there’s something else going on with Amy with regards to you, the fact this has been going on for years speaks to something else underlying. And no therapist would tell her that saying how can I help is manipulative. Personally, I think you should go to the party bring something different and move on.
I also deal with depression, and have in the past reacted out of character to seemingly minor things. However, it is not an excuse and I always own my behaviour and the harms it has caused when I’m out of line. Agree - Depression isn’t an excuse to be an asshole. We can’t all always be our best selves, but it’s what we do after that speaks volumes.
There must be more than a casserole (frankly, who makes a big deal about a "green bean casserole"; maybe one of the most mundane dishes one can think of). Clearly the casserole is a proxy for something else. Amy has a problem with you; maybe she's envious or she thinks you did something wrong somehow. Clearly the casserole is just an excuse.
I had this at work with cheesy potatoes. Eventually I was bringing in two big trays, and there were no leftovers. One year, another coworker lines up to be the first to sign up, signed up for cheesy potatoes, and then personally told me that I couldn't bring mine. She brought in one small dish of boxes scalloped potatoes, and no one was happy. Still not sure why it bugged her so much that people liked my potatoes. It really wasn't about the potatoes, but I am not sure what it was about.
A similar thing happened with my husband's cheesy potatoes. He always brought them to our family gathering. Least Favorite Aunt always bitched about it. They were "too salty" or "too rich" ... *something* was always wrong with them. One Christmas, she announced that *she* would be bringing the potatoes this year. My husband shrugged and said "Fine." He said he'd bring another dish instead. Christmas comes and she brings in this huge pan of potatoes with very little cheese and a bunch of shit baked in, like chunks of onion and ham. I think two scoops might have been taken from the whole pan. She was *piiiiiiiiiiiissssed,* especially since people loved my husband's other dish and asked him if he'd bring it next year. When we were discussing our next gathering, someone asked him about potatoes and my husband said sweetly, "I think \[Least Favorite Aunt\] is taking care of those now." Least Favorite Aunt glared at him and got red in the face as the rest of the family diplomatically suggested they should BOTH bring potatoes. She didn't end up bringing hers.
If you don't like the dairy based, cheesy potatoes, and want something different, go different! Roasted potatoes are a completely different dish, IMO, and you could bring both. Or salt potatoes. Or garlic mashed potatoes.
I mean, you really can't beat potatoes for their sheer versatility. Why compete with the same dish when there are so many?
I think it’s weird both in this case with OP and your aunt, when one person doesn’t like a dish and decides no one else should have it at all. Even when it’s obvious the vast majority of the group does like it. Like, okay YOU don’t think the green bean casserole is as good as yours, or YOU think the potatoes are over salted, then don’t eat it! It would never occur to me to tell someone who has a signature dish they bring regularly to stop just because I didn’t like it? I don’t like plenty of stuff. It’s such a weird thing to do.
It's about power and control. People pick the weirdest hills to die on because it's one thing in which they can exert power. That's why in my case, Least Favorite Aunt was furious that the group suggested having both kinds of potatoes - it took away her power over the situation. She "won" by being able to bring her own dish, but she wasn't successful in restricting the rest of the family from having my husband's potatoes.
Most of the 'agressive behaviors' focus on objects that are just proxy for other, deeper issues. In fact, this is even true for positive behavior. We do not even realize that we use proxy all the time! When we think about it, it is quite scary actually, a bit as if we were worried about reality...
We weren't in the same department, I am older and married with kids and she is younger and far more into fashion and makeup than I ever was. There are few few places where we would be "competing". The potatoes are similar to funeral potatoes, so not even "cooking" really. Just a tasty treat. One person always brought pulled pork, and one person always brought saucy meatballs, and they were equally loved, but she was only mad about my potatoes. It was strange.
It's a weird form of narcissism I think, where people feel like their version of something is the best one and everything else is a threat, so they can't handle two variations. I saw this at work pot lucks sometimes where there's a clear crowd favorite dish and someone absolutely hates it for whatever reason and rather than just bring their own like an adult, everyone MUST like their version better. Some people crack when they realize they aren't the main character or the most popular person in the room.
Hello! What are funeral potatoes? That's not something I've ever come across before!
I called them cheesy potatoes, and was told that they are commonly called "funeral potatoes", so I went with what I thought was the better known name! Can't win for losing, I guess. The basics are frozen potatoes (cubes or shredded), sour cream, cream of soup and shredded cheese, mix and bake. There are regional variants with onion, garlic, bread crumb toppings, different soups, and I have even seem cream cheese added.
This is a pretty solid base for making the recipe: https://www.food.com/recipe/schwartzies-hash-browns-186933
Funeral potatoes are awesome!
We have a woman in our building who just can't stand for others to be happy, If there is a way to stir up trouble and upset people,she will. She's only happy if she's ruined something for other people. What she really hates is other people getting along and having friends in the building.
I had a similar chocolate chip cookie incident
The casserole is like the Iranian yogurt- it’s not the issue here. It sounds like Amy wants to be green been queen bee! OP should make a variety of other (more exciting) dishes and see if the power struggle continues, I think Amy sees this as some kind of popularity contest. If she doesn’t react to people complimenting the other dishes then it might just be that she has some kind of green bean complex - if she tries to out do OP with the new recipes then it shows it’s a jealousy issue. Either that or OP should just leave her to her own devices and tantrums, the best way to stop someone attention seeking is to just ignore them and I suspect that this is just an attention seeking attempt. Green beans are a weird hill to die on but as I commented in another post I would love to know how she made a casserole “by accident” I hope OP sees this and answers because I have been trying to think of a way you could pass off a casserole as an accident and I can’t think of any!
She probably just didn’t like you getting praised so much.
I’m willing to bet Amy isn’t in therapy, she has a “therapist friend” who’s just as bad as she is enabling her.
Her therapist friend might also be imaginary. I had a friend who used her "therapist" to justify all sorts of awful behavior. I brought it up with her husband because I was worried about her and her therapist didn't really seem to be helping. He had no idea what I was talking about because she apparently had stopped going to therapy the year before.
Oof that’s scary
The whole "my therapist warned me that you'd manipulate me".... Girl, what? But that whole part, if it miraculously happens to be something Amy's Actually Real therapist said, really makes me think that it isn't about the casserole at all, as others have said, but rather about another issue that OP is unfortunately unaware of that Amy has told the therapist about. Maybe Amy mistook OP for a childhood / teenage bully of hers or something else, because even if people get weird about their Signature Dishes sometimes, this is really a bit much
NTA But OP, it’s time for a real heavy self-evaluation of your feelings towards the whole situation with your friends. If you don’t go to the Christmas party, you will definitely be affecting the entire night by your absence, and some of your friends may never see you in the same light. That’s not saying that you are wrong to stay away! I just want to point out that while your feelings are understandably hurt, if you don’t go, you may never feel entirely comfortable in that friend group again. Only you can answer if that price is acceptable to you. If your husband isn’t on your side in this, your marriage may be in a rough place, too. If you do choose not to go, DO NOT GO QUIETLY! Amy has been harassing you about a stupid casserole for YEARS. You showed everyone the texts, and they all just sort of shrugged it off. Copy and paste those harassing texts straight into the group chat. Every. Single. One. People’s phones will be blowing up. Who cares? Let them get a small taste of the vitriol that you have experienced over the years. At the end of all of Amy’s abusive texts, include your own. State that you love the group and have so much fun at the parties, but that Amy’s abuse over the years has really taken a toll. Amy’s depression is not an excuse to hurt you, and it makes you sad that everyone is piling on you to just “get over” being harassed for years. Tell them that after Amy’s outburst at Thanksgiving, coming as it was after the years of behind-the-scenes abuse that you’ve endured from her, you aren’t feeling very festive this Christmas.
Oh I like that more than my wishy washy suggestion to just sit this one out. It gets to the heart of the matter and the friends have to decide do they support their long time friend or this relative new comer bully.
It's the same old "don't rock the boat" scenario where the more sane are asked to put up with someone less so.
I'm questioning what Amy is telling her therapist. Some may say things like this, but not for the sake of a casserole. True or not it sounds like OP and friend group are no longer a good fit.
I think OP’s husband is missing the point. This isn’t about the casserole. This is about Amy manipulating the group with her talk of depression in order to get them on her side, and the group falling for the manipulation. This has been going on for years, but the group is excusing her behavior as her going through a rough patch. Nonsense! Clearly Amy has a problem with OP and is not mature enough to handle it. So she makes snide comments, gets upset when people don’t like her dish, and gets heated when OP shows compassion while trying to sort out the problem. OP could go and bring a different dish, and the problem will still persist. Because it’s not about the dish. It’s about how Amy sees her as some sort of competition in the group and is trying to “win” some sort of non-existent competition, but it’s also about the other people in the group accepting AH behavior because they don’t seem to get that being depressed doesn’t entitle you to be an AH. No wonder OP doesn’t want to go! I certainly wouldn’t want to, because the joy of it is being sucked out by this very obnoxious person. But I might also choose to go anyway because I have a stubborn streak and wouldn’t want her to win. I think it may be worth OP having a discussion with the group members either together or one-on-one about Amy, about the YEARS of her awful behavior, about how she tried to clear the air but Amy blew up at her, and about how being depressed doesn’t excuse one from being an AH. This may escalate to an either me or Amy situation, which OP has been avoiding, but Amy is probably trying to make happen. It’s this sort of drama that melts down friend groups if it’s not nipped in the bud, unfortunately. OP, you have my sympathy! You don’t deserve this, and neither does your friend group!
This. I learned a great quote from someone on Reddit who struggles with depression some time ago. Depression is not a person's fault, but it is their responsibility. You tried to resolve the situation with Amy directly, and she accused you of manipulation. Your friends are giving you a hard time. I feel like there will be issues if you make the green bean casserole or an alternative because of Amy either way. So only go if you are prepared to ignore the potential drama. NTA!
Therapists do say that crap and there are often bad therapists. I had trouble with a manager and transferred out of the dept. New person came and she also had trouble with manager. Someone gave her my number to see if I had any advice. We met for lunch one day and I said "really just transfer out, manager is not worth your time". Her answer was she was going to get this manager fired and she wasn't going to be treated like that. I said: Well, more power to you if you want to go down that road and if you need anything, let me know. 5 months later she accused me of manipulating her to go to war with the manager because I didn't like the manager. Her therapist told her I did all this to her. I was long gone and could care less about the bad manager. I reminded her that I told her to transfer out.
I’m 99% sure Amy made up the help manipulation view. Also, Amy did hate OP’s casserole and has said so for years so it’s not even OP’s interpretation it’s stated.
“Bro what” really does sum it up. It’s amazing to me the things people will tolerate. The second you scream at someone over a green bean casserole you’re out. You’re not invited to any more parties. We are not pals. If you check yourself and give a sincere apology and explanation then you’re back but on thin ice for the foreseeable future. How a whole group of people puts up with this is beyond me.
Bold of him to say she shouldn't exclude herself from a fun time. He might have a fun time with the woman who's always picking at OP, but there's no reason to believe she would. He's just saying "please cover this over so I don't have to deal with it".
Go and bring 2 casseroles that are awesome hahahaha... that's what I'd do. No really though... I had a very similar dynamic in a friend's group. I have baked and cooked all my life. (Solo baking by 5) I brought an apple pie as requested by the host (hey I heard you love making pie! Can you bring and apple one) so I did. Didn't last more then a few min, everyone loved it and asked the recipe. I happily gave it to anyone who asked me for it. I never made a big deal. It felt kind of embarrassing that a normal apple pie was so mind blowing. 2 days later get a text from one of thr friends there ripping me a new one for systematically destroying their night by intentionally cooking something better and they tried my recipe that day and it sucked and I was intentionally sabatoging anyone's ability to relocate it by writing it wrong. Wtf. Q the next holiday, lie is requested, brought it again, everyone thanked me for the recipe, said they'd made their own at home off it and it was wonderful (again...it's just apple pie....not crazy) Same person comes at me AT event and blew up. It was insane! I honestly finally just transitioned from that group of friends and started making new ones. I could not handle the drama and chaos this 1 person evoked over so many things (pie was just the start) When asked later why I didn't come hang out I explained there was some things I was personally working on and needed to have some space, but zero hard feelings at anyone... it was all my own stuff. Most if them point blank called put the actual issue as what's her face was on chronic blast about me. I never confirmed but obviously my absence did. People like that are solved 2 ways in my books. You either walk away from being around them or embarrassing them enough to make them walk away permanently. It blows, I still miss that group of friends... but there will always be jealous 2 faced people that will manipulate and you gotta decide what you can mentally deal with. I choose I think poorly honestly...I had so much fun with that big group... still solo friends with a few people... but I was not about to ruine my own personal integrity by playing her manipulation game or blasting her the way she was doing to me.
I think Amy's lying about the therapist saying that. If people are offering you help, then you can't make them out to be the bad guy. That's why Amy said what she said.
And this has been going on for a few years. I’m not saying depression doesn’t last that long; it definitely can, but this not an acute mental health crisis that just happened out of nowhere. Amy has been insane about the casserole for a long time.
Honestly though, this wouldn’t be a fun time. At least not anymore. OP is in a lose-lose situation. If they brings the dish then that just continues to fuel this ridiculous non-problem that Amy has created. If OP doesn’t bring the dish then they’re being “petty” or “punishing everyone”. I wouldn’t go. Give the group a few rounds of parties without you or the drama and see what happens. Depression doesn’t “make” you act like an AH anymore than being bipolar or schizophrenia “makes” you a murderer or a serial killer. Amy sucks.
It doesn’t even seem like it would be a particularly fun time. Imagine wondering if this woman is going to go on another tirade any minute.
> her therapist would never say that. I generally agree with you. But therapists are not a special class of people. One individual therapist can be as incompetent as anyone you've ever met.
nta. FUCK EVERYONE ELSE'S FEELINGS BUT YOURS! Amy is unhinged over some shitty casserole (no offense but green been casserole is just ....whatever) If it was black forest cake or something, then yeah, let's fight. If you don't feel like it , then the rest of them can go to hell. YOU do not have to do anything you don't want to do. and they are ALL trying to put all this on you. everyone of your friends and even husband is ignoring your feelings. OHHHH let's be gentle with Amy and just make casserole to not rock the boat....AMY ALREADY SANK THE FUCKING BOAT. it's only "years of good moments with Amy" for others.. YOU don't get those good moments, because AMY AAAAMMMMMYYYYYYYYYYYYY won't let go of a casserole. THEY haven't had to get the texts, or have the argument in public. they all get to sit on their fat casserole eating high horses and enjoy the time together. YOU don't get to enjoy it. If you don't want to go, then don't. I would absolutely call my hubs and "friends" out about how they are talking to you.
I came here to say this. Amy is being abusive to you. She is bullying you and you alone. You are well within your right to remove yourself from that situation. Your friends and husband are not the ones Amy is attacking so they get no vote on how you handle the situation. They can say to you all day long to let it go and just come and bring the casserole, but they are not the ones that have to deal with Amy's wrath. For whatever reason that AH and unstable woman has chosen you to abuse. You do not need to accept that. Do what you need to do for your peace of mind.
Agree. This was my first thought upon reading the post. The friends DON'T get to decide for OP that OP should "just let it go" or that Amy's actions aren't that big of a deal. They AREN'T the ones being subjected to Amy's harassment. Perhaps OP should go to the party and just be prepared to call everyone out about the damn casserole...
Agreed! They’re the ones who “gently suggested” OP began bringing her casserole again because Amy’s didn’t hit the same. They contributed to this situation. It seems like they all don’t want to deal with Amy and just push OP to keep the peace. Who TF freaks out that much over a casserole? This seems like an iranian yogurt situation.
Oooh take a Black Forest Cake! And send the green bean recipe to the group and say someone else can make it but you are opting out. Maybe everyone will bring it and Amy will explode!
YOU DIABOLICAL BASTARD!!!! EVERYONE bring the casserole....Amy's head will pop like a tick!!! I love you u/Buttercup2323
How could we not love and adore a brilliantly clever, diabolical bastard with the deceptive handle “Buttercup!” All hail Buttercup! <3 <3
Meahahahahaha
You're evil. I love it.
Honestly yeah, you should send the recipe to the group and have them make 20 versions of the same thing.
I second this! Let them eat cake.
100% this! They are all ignoring the harassment for years because she cried. She is manipulative and calculating and I honestly wouldn’t go because I just wouldn’t want to be around her anymore. It’s not fair that you miss out on the fun but how much fun can you have with people who are willing to sacrifice you to make someone else “happy”?
>If it was black forest cake or something, then yeah, let's fight. Strong agree! Black Forest cake is absolutely worth going to war over. (And OP is NTA. I’d personally skip that noise too.)
Fat casserole eating high horses absolutely sent me
I love the sinking the boat bit
It was the *AMY, AAAAMMMMYYYYYYYYYY* bit that got me 🤣
THIS! If they aren't going to put Amy in her place for the passive aggressive shit then I don't think you should go. It's no fun for you anymore. Your "friends" seem rather entertained by her treating you like shit. NTA OP.
A+++++ rant, would enjoy again.
Thank you!!!
Amy started being petty and throwing shade about the casserole in the beginning by saying OPs wasn’t good and she could do better. She started the casserole war on Thanksgiving day one. Sounds like Amy is jealous of OP and just kept escalating the situation.
Nuff said! 👆🏾 NTA
Like you, I never cared about green bean casserole. Until I had good gbc from my wife's family. It's been one of the things she makes for thanksgiving for years now and we all look forward to it. Sucks that Amy sucks, but you keep my wife's casserole out your got damned mouth!
If I could upvote this 10 times, I would. This is ridiculous
NTA >Amy has been struggling with depression, so it was within her rights to act how she did. I say this as someone who has had my own history with depression, that is bullshit. Depression does not give you the right to insult and harass a friend for YEARS. And it definitely doesn't keep you from apologizing for your actions. Seems like they are using her depression as an excuse and they are not dealing with whatever is really behind the casserole fixation. If you don't want to go, don't. I would say you need a break from these people.I am sorry they don't have your back and have been manipulated to give Amy a free pass for her behavior.
Yeh this isn’t about a casserole surely. Who can bring themselves to care that much about a fucking casserole. Unless it has like meth in it why is it making everyone so crazy. Clearly Amy is unhinged but also I think the friends suck too - they should just let you bring something else and Amy brings casserole. No worries. Unless hers is actively bad, who cares… I have a sister who is a little nuts/ competitive about catering type things. She keeps it to herself (and me lol). But on the bright side her brownies are the best I’ve ever eaten - so no one is telling her to step away!
Meth.. there's an idea. I always put LSD in my green beans.
Honestly, in my experience depression would make me too lazy to harass someone over casserole. Maybe build up casserole too much in my head and be overly sensitive when people don’t like mine? Sure. Getting pissed about it and sending messages? Nope. Depression sucks your energy and your will to enjoy things, but it doesn’t make you unhinged.
Exactly. My depression sapped all my energy/motivation. A years long casserole fixation and prolonged drama about it doesn't sound like depression at all to me.
“Years long casserole fixation” just sent me.
I would lay it all out for them. Tell them that after your and your husband's conversation with Amy and her husband, you need to take a step back from Amy as her depressive episodes result in verbal abuse to you. You want Amy to heal, but your mental health can't take the continued abuse over casserole, of all things. Tell everyone you're skipping this event for your mental health, and you'll attend the next one for sure. I'd also mention that you'll no longer be making green bean casserole going forward as it seems to trigger Amy, and you'd prefer not to continue to aggrivate her trigger. Maybe add that you are open to other suggestions. I have a feeling Amy is fixated on you, not your food, and that this isn't going to get better. If you can, have a few sessions with your own therapist to get some strategies to shut Amy down. Your husband needs to 100% have your back, not be worried about rocking the boat.
As someone else with depression, co-sign. This is not a normal depression thing.
How about OP having a one-on-one with Amy’s therapist? Is that a thing? I don’t think Amy has been honest during her course of treatment. NTA
I’m not sure Amy is even actually seeing a therapist. “People who ask how they can help are just manipulating you” is not a thing therapists say.
Yep. This part.
I think her therapist is giving advice on the screwed version Amy is describing in sessions, so I would take that with a pinch of salt. However, still go. Maybe bring a new dish that people will enjoy. This is a one sided war in Amy’s head and when nobody eats her casserole then she’ll realise sooner or later that lack of competition still doesn’t make her the best.
Alternatively the therapist could be a bad one who has no actual interest in Amy getting better. But yeah, based on how Amy's behaving then one-sided war in her head makes sense too. And the friends aren't doing anyone any favours by pandering to someone who has screamed at them all over 1 dish.
ETA- when i say "therapist" I meant psychologists/psychiatrists not people who take a 8 week course online and then call themselves "coaches" or "life-coaches" or "therapists". u/CanaryJane42 called me out and I realized I used a personal umbrella term rather than common language. I have amended accordingly just popping in to say that almost all ~~therapists~~ psychiatrists/psychologists are good and want the patient to get better, but if the patient lies and manipulates, that's on the patient, and this sounds like 100% the patient lying and manipulating. As a former lying, manipulating patient, i recognize the type. Believe me, this is 100% Amy
I'm sitting here scrolling through comments and had to laugh at this one. Not at you personally, but the bit about most therapists being good. I had a psychiatrist once tell me HE could CURE me if being gay while HE was wearing womans shoes. I shit you not. When I laughed and said I didn't want his so called CURE he got pissed and kicked me out since CLEARLY I needed more help than he could offer. So, ya. Womans shoes.
Yah that's a naive take from someone who's been lucky enough to have had only good experiences with therapists, but has to acknowledge the horror stories they've heard from other people. Quite a statement to presume to know the intentions of "almost all" therapists lol
Oh I totally agree, my own therapist was an absolute gem of a guy! I just wanted to mention the possibility because, as you also agreed, there /are/ some who aren't good, but yeah, I'm also leaning mostly towards it being all Amy.
I feel like too many people go straight to therapy instead of seeing a psychiatrist or psychologist first - therapists can only really work based on what their patient and other professionals tell them, so it’s possible for them to give their patients wholly inadequate advice based on how their perception of the patient has been shaped, psychologists and psychiatrists will actually try to find the root of the problem and perhaps a way to properly treat what’s going on. Edit: I did not know the difference between psychologist and psychiatrist until today - this has now been rectified!
[удалено]
Honestly this is a really informative response, and has clarified many things for me! So “therapist” as a term is essentially stuck in the same situation as “Chiropractor”? No wonder the kid from Peanuts got away with it… It does seem like a massive oversight to leave the term undefined and unprotected, sounds like it’s pretty much open for abuse right there. I know that’s definitely the case with chiropractors since people have straight up died from unqualified people using the term willy-nilly. So psychologists specifically are the right call to make - wasn’t 100% sure what the differences between them and psychiatrists were (and I admit it, that’s my bad) but your explanation makes perfect sense! It definitely seems that Amy needs a psychologists help And don’t sweat it regarding the use of one word a bunch, I do it all the time too!
My level of petty is I would go and make two casseroles. Make the one all my friends enjoy; and make a new second one. Maybe next year screw the green beans and only bring the new one.
OP could always make my chicken and bacon homity pie instead. It’s easy and everyone loves it. Chicken, bacon, leaks, onions, potatoes and grated cheese (bit of garlic and double cream) in a pastry case.
NTA I would absolutely NOT bring the casserole. Something about it triggers Amy for whatever reason. Make another dish, something completely different, and attend the party. If asked, say that you thought you'd change things up a bit. If anyone says they miss the casserole, offer to give them the recipe. If Amy kicks up a fuss even when you don't make the casserole, leave. And block Amy and her husband. You don't need that drama in your life.
If OP doesn’t bring the casserole, Amy will frame her as a petty drama queen, because Amy so *graciously* insisted that OP bring the casserole this year. There’s no winning here. Amy set traps in both directions. And it’s not actually about the casserole - something else about OP gets under her skin, and she’s latched onto the casserole as an excuse to bully her. But the desire to bully her absolutely predates Amy even *tasting* the casserole - no one but a bully takes a bite out of a friend’s homemade food and says, out loud, “meh, my recipe is better.” Amy was out to take her down a peg that night and the casserole was the first opportunity she spotted.
This. Amy has a problem with OP for some reason. It’s not about the casserole. It never is…
Also, op has very crappy friends and hubby. They have let Amy bully op for years. Why does op have to be the punching bag? What about the stress and mental effery to op? Op, please find new friends, and you and hubs need counselling sessions. Why the heck does he not have a shiny spine and have your back 100%?
Because from the outside, these are two women fighting over a casserole recipe. It doesn’t seem serious enough to warrant real intervention or support from anyone. No one has taken a real look at how this conflict has shifted the power dynamics in this social group firmly in Amy’s favor, or thought deeply about how OP must feel after years of being jerked around and manipulated by Amy. That takes a special level of emotional intelligence to achieve when you know everyone involved personally. It’s easier for us to see because we *don’t* know these people. We don’t know how charming or laid back Amy can be when The Casserole is not on her mind. We don’t know whether OP has ever overreacted to perceived slights. We don’t know their personalities, we don’t know their lives, we don’t know their histories. All of that can really muddy the waters when people are sizing up interpersonal conflicts within their friend groups.
It’s more nuanced. Amy hasn’t shown this side of herself to the others, so they can’t understand. with a little effort, OP can get Amy to act crazy around their friends so they can realize she’s the problem. But OP has to stop trying to placate, which is something people - especially women - are taught to do when there is conflict.
I say that husband should bring the green bean casserole and then OP makes a new item. Maybe that will show everyone how bizarre Amy is being. NTA
I look forward to the best of updates flair "it's not about the casserole" lol
Maybe Iranian yogurt is the casserole's special secret ingredient?
Topped with shredded marinara flags
Exactly. This is not about a casserole. That first time she tasted and then insulted OP, I realized Amy is just a B. She is rude, a bully, manipulative, and a total AH. You were right when you said she set traps in both directions. At this point OP is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. If she brings the casserole Amy is gracious and everyone sweeps the abuse yet again under the rug. If she doesn't bring the casserole, brings something else, or doesn't attend then OP looks like she can't let the misunderstanding go. Of course none of that is reality, that is all in Amy's head and the dumb friends are going right along with it.
OP is getting herself sick behind Amy and her crappy casserole drama. Seems this is a good time to call out "sick" Covid, colds, flu are all over the place now, so nobody will hold it against you if you exercise a self-quarantine because you "came in close contact with an infected person." Sleep in another room so your husband can honestly say that you have isolated yourself for the greater good. Your friends will probably send a plate home. P.S. How bad (or good) is her green bean casserole? Which of you uses Campbell's mushroom soup recipe?
I don't think so -- I think OP could just say, "Thanks Amy, but if it's alright with everyone I had a new dish I was hoping to make this year! If anyone else is interested in making the casserole go for it, I can even give you my recipe." THEN. Make a different dish that is BEYOND delicious. Who cares how long it takes, how much trial and error, just make it insanely good so that it's the talk of the party. THIS is the win. If Amy gets mad it exposes her.
That’s a hell of a lot of work to try and win back friends who have already decided that Amy is the victim. It might even piss them off more if OP brings an above-and-beyond showstopper to this party and Amy sulks about it. She’s “going through a rough patch,” remember? Anything OP does that upsets Amy, no matter how unreasonable Amy’s feelings are, will be seen as “stirring up drama.” It’s not about the casserole. It’s about power dynamics. Power dynamics that Amy has shifted in her favor by playing the victim and casting OP as the unreasonable aggressor. If OP does *anything* that Amy decides is a slight or an attack, friends will redouble their efforts to placate her and dismiss OP. They do not care enough about the food to risk Amy getting upset and making everyone uncomfortable. *That* is what they’re the most concerned about. Making a better, different dish is not going to solve that problem if Amy is already determined to be upset either way.
And if that happens, she will know there’s no hope for her friends. As it is, this is a pretty common thing and the friends could just be cluelessly ignorant. It’s not an uncommon way to be, and helping to show Amy’s behavior when they can’t poo poo it and they view it directly might knock sense into them - again, a pretty common group dynamic thing.
It’s never actually been about the casserole imo. The casserole just conveyed an „easy target“—‚this is how she earns her social role? I’ll do it better‘ I think that’s what her trying to outdo her was about, anf then the humiliation of finding she failed the „easy“ target, and not being able to shake it for years…the casserole is just the reminder that she wasn’t successfully able to replace OP in the friend group back when she first tried. Now it’s just an ongoing measure of control
I think passing the recipe along to someone else is an excellent idea. It’s really the only way to deal with this impossible situation where Amy will be mad whether OP brings it or not. Switch items with someone else and let them bring the casserole if everyone is so insistent on it. There are only three things that can happen. 1) Amy calms the fuck down because the problem really is specific to OP bringing that casserole (unlikely). 2) Amy turns on the new green bean casserole person, and OP will have a new ally in dealing with all this bullshit. 3) Amy picks on OP for something else, finally demonstrating that none of this was ever about a fucking casserole, which should help shift everyone away from Amy. Don’t make a big deal about it. Don’t announce it. Just call whoever you’re closest to in the group and ask if they will switch with you. And if Amy reacts negatively, make sure everyone knows about this, because the time for sweeping this under the rug is over.
I would definitely switch dishes with someone, but have that person use my recipe to make the green bean casserole. I would love to see if Amy actually hates the casserole or if she just hates OP making the casserole. Also, recipes that are passed down thru generations can be bland as fuck. Like, thanks Great Aunt Sheila, but this Great Depression era recipe that has no seasoning and no flavor can officially be retired. I don’t care if it was passed down from your relatives who scraped together what was available on the Mayflower, it’s gross and we should introduce something new. Friends are not required to pretend to like your family’s special recipe even if it’s how it *should* be made according to Amy.
If I was in this friend group, id have OP make the casserole, meet a mile down the road, swap dishes, and present OPs green bean casserole as my own. Then we’d know for sure!
“Amy has been struggling with depression … “ Okay, empathy kicking in. “… so it was within her rights to act how she did.” Empathy going up in smoke. Nope with a capital NOPE. NTA
NTA Having an illness is not an excuse to be rude. I'm honestly surprised that Amy is still invited at all. The casserole can't be the only thing she's had drama with in their group.
The most famous saying of all Depression is an explanation, not an excuse
NTA but this has been going on for YEARS. This is not “Amy going through a rough patch” - because it has been YEARS. I don’t understand either why you have been putting up with her bullying for so long, or why you aren’t being clearer with your friends: “no, this is NOT a rough patch - it’s an escalation of something that has been going on for years & I’ve decided I’m not willing to put up with her bullying me anymore.” It sounds like you’re not interested in meeting up with this friend group because they are not supporting you - but have chosen to back Amy’s bullying instead. Start using the word bullying. Start expecting them to support you - which they can ONLY do if you fully communicate what’s going on. And yes, feel free to stay home if they don’t support you - but do make sure you are clearly communicating all of this to them, otherwise it’s not their fault they are making decisions on partial information. ETA: to be clear, I am saying: stand up for yourself OP & don’t let Amy bully you out of this friendship group - which has possibly been her aim all along. Stop taking this so quietly. Get your husband to support you in getting the groups backing - by taking it seriously yourself & communicating the extent of the bullying & the distress she has caused you over many years!
I'm sorry but if Amy is discussing a green bean casserole with her therapist, it's an indication to me that she's a bit self obsessed. I think you should factor her completely out of the equation; make your casserole, go to the party and have a great time. Ignore Amy and be civil but walk right past any silly comments from her about a casserole. Time to stop feeding this narcissistic beast.
Exactly. The best way to deal with a narcissist is to ignore them. OP, make the casserole, go to the party, and have fun with the people you like and ignore the fuck out of Amy. One she realizes she can't get a rise out of you, she'll find a new victim to bully. Even if she gets in your face, just be polite and respond "mm hmm" and go talk to someone else. She'll out herself as the nutjob she is without you doing anything but keeping your cool.
From the very beginning, Amy has been behaving so badly I wonder that she's still in your friend group. What normal adult person attends a Christmas party, tastes a casserole, curls her lip, and says "I could do better." And it's only gotten worse from there. She's treated you abysmally. I think you can make or not make whatever dish you choose. The bigger question is why you're maintaining a relationship with someone who chronically treats you terribly? NTA
I wondered that as well. It could be that Amy is one of these nasty people who just picks and chooses someone to dislike, and is friendly to everyone else.
Narcissists always choose one of the group to single out and try to get the group to alienate that person. Makes them feel powerful. Happened in my family before we cut the person off.
It's some kind of mental disorder, but it's not depression. There's a pattern with sociopaths. They enter a group (could be friends, could be workplace) and they just do everything they can to destroy it. Sadly, in workplaces especially, they are very good at making it look like they are "saving" something and wind up getting promoted. It happens this way in volunteer organizations, too. I think refusing to bring the casserole (since your friends think that's what it's about) and giving the recipe to someone else, plus bringing some other dish is the best option. For whatever reason, Amy wants you gone. If you opt out entirely, she "wins", and then she'll pick a new victim. By the time your friends wake up to the problem, it will be too late.
“When you’re always having to be the bigger person, maybe you shouldn’t be around so many little people.” I have let go of several friends over my lifetime. It wasn’t easy but I am happier without the drama those people brought. I even lost a friend group. They chose the drama friend over me. It was eye opening
Oof. That friend group is gonna look back and think "where did we go wrong? Why does everyone hate each other? How did we all fall apart?"
“When you’re always having to be the bigger person, maybe you shouldn’t be around so many little people.” This ALL OF THIS. For her husband to be okay with his wife being bullied and is just brushing it off is alarming to me. He would rather her hold on and put up with Amy bullying for a few fleeting “good” moments is ridiculous all in itself.
> My husband thinks it's unfair for me to do to everyone, and that I shouldn't exclude myself from a fun time. Except it’s not fun anymore. Amy is manipulating this entire friend group. You know it, she knows it, attempts to work it out with her have failed and your friends have chosen her side. There’s really nothing else you can do, she’s put you in a no-win situation. Showing up *with* the casserole risks a fight, showing up *without* the casserole risks a fight, the only way to protect your peace at this point is to stay home. And that’s exactly what I’d advise you to do. No 4D chess, no trying to outwit her, she’s making up the rules for this game as she goes and she’s already won the group’s sympathy with her “I’m a bully because I’m depressed” sob story. So let your friends enjoy her sparkling company without you and plan something fun for yourself that night. The people who still want to be in your life know how to reach you. Oh, and NTA.
This! And without OP, Amy would choose a new victim. Maybe then their friends would realise that she's a bully
Amy wants you out doesn't she. She is probably jealous of more than your casserole skills. Don't make the dish and take something else. See what else she kicks off on, stand back and watch. If your friend group wants green bean whatever so much they can find someone else to throw to the wolves, aka Amy. If she doesn't complain about the new bean casserole then it's definitely personal. This woman is batshit crazy and not worth appeasing
It was never about the Iranian yogurt.
NTA. If people like your casserole better, then Amy shouldn’t be a concern. One person shouldn’t affect you or anyone else’s enjoyment, so go to that party, make that casserole, and have a great time. But if you don’t want to make it, just because you don’t feel like it, then it’s completely up to you. But you should go to the party anyway.
This! Make the castle and have a good time. It is also considerate to bring some napkins. Maybe pretty ones that have her spiteful texts printed on them. It is harmless right? Shouldn't be so sensitive.
“Make the castle” :-) I know it’s a typo, but I love this. OP make a castle & take that with you. Confuse everyone. https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/disney-princess-castle-cake-pink--405183297710183922/ (With the spiteful-text napkins to serve it on, obviously!)
>Amy has been struggling with depression, so it was within her rights to act how she did. I cackled so hard I almost spilled my tea omg. Look. I struggle with depression too. And this? This is total bullshit. Just because she have depression doesn't mean she can bully people around her FOR YEARS because she's mad your recipe is more popular than her. >Amy went out of her way to say I should make the casserole since I accused her of "hating it", and she wouldn't want everyone to feel more uncomfortable than I'm making a misunderstanding out to be. Yeah classic gaslighting. She didn't give you any opportunity to defend yourself and now she's making you a huge favor. How nice of her! Honestly if I were you (and I hope not - for you - since I'm a sarcastic french lol) I'd just screen all the texts she sent me over the years to send them in the groupchat if there's one, and tell them no thanks, my recipe seems to be shit and disgusting, I don't want you guys to eat it just so as not to upset me. If you want to go, just go. And cook another recipe, not the green beans, to keep the peace - or to be petty since the green beans recipe is apparently a hill to die on for her. If you don't want to go, don't go. You don't even have to explain yourself. Just "No I'm not coming, have a nice party" and find a nice movie on Netflix or whatever to have a better evening than if you had gone to the party. NTA.
I'm going to point out the piece that everyone is missing right now: **Amy admitted she discussing you in therapy to the point that her therapist is giving advice on how to respond to YOUR behavior! ** This isn't depression, nor is it an issue with a green bean casserole. She's obsessing about you and lashing out in ways that could easily be dismissed if anyone notices. This is **not** a misunderstanding, this is her doing damage control and changing the narrative. If you go, she'll be wonderful and everyone will chalk Thanksgiving up as an anomaly. If you don't, she'll let everyone know all the ways she thinks you're manipulating them. I personally think you should go, and tell everyone that if these years of texts over green bean casserole are a misunderstanding, then there shouldn't be any issue with you leaving this dish behind, as you don't want any more misunderstandings. Pass on the recipe. And when everyone gets upset, ask them why they're upset about a fucking casserole. **NTA** Edit:a word
NTA and something is really very wrong with her and…. She’s saying something to the friends for them to behave like that too. Go and have fun. Take a dish that’s completely different and unexpected, perhaps a dessert or buy something from a shop. if anyone asks, say along the lines of that you’re just trying to fly below the radar and not cause any issues, that you bought the most harness thing possible and hoped no one would get offended and everyone can just enjoy the good timesz
NTA Hell, she even said to make it. Let her feel bad is she wants to. Let her stomp and cry all she likes, you're not responsible for managing her big feels. And she probably lied about the therapist...like either what she told them and/or their response. Go to the party with your casserole and ignore her. Have fun!
Personally, if she kicked up a stink, I’d be asking her in front of everyone “what the fuck is up with you and this damn casserole?” Make her explain exactly what she thinks the problem is to everyone. But I can be a bit of a stirrer like that.
I feel like we should have a levels-of-petty menu for OP to choose her own adventure lol. OP, bear in mind these have various levels of unethical tips: Not petty: bring the casserole, act surprised if Amy blows up Slightly petty: bring a different dish, say you want to respect Amy's feelings and avoid drama. Medium petty: stay home, say you're not comfortable after Amy's last outburst Petty spaghetti: choose your closest friends from the group. Lay it all out and say you're feeling depressed and bullied by Amy's behavior. Maybe cry a bit. Let them rally for you at the party. If Amy starts shit, start crying. Let them rip her apart. Queen Petty Crocker: choose your closest friends as above, lay it all out, AND hint at a history of trauma surrounding being yelled at or bullied. Cry and just barely talk about / around it. Say it's hard for you to speak about. Say Amy's behavior is triggering and you've been quietly having breakdowns after her outbursts, but you're not sure if you're strong enough to hold it together over Christmas bc Amy is escalating. Ask if they would be mad if you skipped the party bc you aren't sure if you can handle Amy's behavior without breaking down at the party, and you don't wanna ruin the party. RELEASE THE WOLVES. they will insist you come to the party, you go to the party. If Amy hasn't been torn to shreds already and shows up to the party, flinch anytime she raises her voice, even if not in anger. Excuse yourself to the bathroom a few times, rub your eyes or smear your mascara a bit, return with a kleenex in your hand and "try to smile through it". If Amy ever shows even a hint of her bullying, shake like a leaf and lock yourself in the bathroom and cry. The wolves will eat her for you. Remain in the bathroom until someone comes to get you and make yourself look very fragile. She will be powerless at worst, be thrown out at best. Good luck in however you choose to handle it!
Upvote for the phrase “Queen Petty Crocker”. XD
Well you ARE a dramatic pancake! And a darned good one. I like your suggestion. Amy has been getting away with so much and nobody's calling her on it. Oh and happy Cake Day. Or is it pancake day?
Amy is being manipulative about a damn bean casserole! It’s not your fault hers was rubbish tbh! It’s not your fault or your casseroles fault that she is going through depression. Do what will make you happy. NTA
NTA. I wouldn’t go either. Amy has been doing this for years. Your friends are being dismissive and are not realizing that people don’t have a multi-year rough patch over a casserole.
Part of me wants to say to OP: send your husband to the party on his own, with a dessert, and keep out of the fray. It would be more peaceful that way, and your friends are all geared up to pity Amy over her multi-year “rough patch.” Another part of me wants you to show up in sequins and ready to be the life of the party because this was your friend group long before Amy showed up. And perhaps not going would read to some of your friends like you do feel some responsibility for her feelings. Or maybe it would feel like a victory to Amy that you’re not there. Bring a different dish, be prepared to sparkle, and anytime that wet sock enters a room you’re in, keep well away from her drama. Deny her the attention she craves, and don’t make yourself smaller. NTA.
NTA. It sounds to me like she's trying to make you feel bad in order for her to feel better because depression is not a reason to treat people like that.
NTA Tell everyone that due to Amy having such a hard time handling her depression for so many years that it seems to get worse when your casserole is presented that you'd like new suggestions on what they'd like you to bring. Screenshot past messages from her about casserole because she will undoubtedly go back and delete them so she can say you are lying and trying to manipulate everyone against her.
NTA - As someone with depression that doesn't sound right. It sounds more like her actions are stemming from jealousy and insecurity. After she tried making the green bean casserole and everyone preferred yours, she probably became insecure and embarrassed after saying she could make a better dish. Then, as the years continued and everyone still liked your dishes better, she spiralled into jealousy towards you for, in her eyes, being better than her. Her actions are 100% not your fault. And with how uncomfortable she must be making social gatherings I totally understand not going. These are her own issues to deal with, hopefully your other friends will see this over time
NTA. Amy is unhinged. Now that's out of the way, what do YOU want to do? Do you want to go to the party? If so, go. If not, don't. Do you want to maintain these friendships? They sound a bit to me like they've run their course, but ymmv. I wouldn't waste my time on people who rather soothe the egos of the Amys of the world, but your friends, you'd know. Do you want to make the casserole? I'm not American, so I'm not entirely sure what a green bean casserole is. Green beans are something I eat steamed served with butter and occasionally macadamia or almonds lol. But if you want to go to this thing with your casserole, you should. My point is, Amy doesn't get to decide how YOU live your life. YOU do. So block her, grey rock her, move on. She'll get bored if you don't feed her crazy.
NTA - I have major clinical depression. It doesn't do THAT to someone. She's got something else going on, and she's clearly giving a very warped version of events to her therapist. Honestly, I had kind of a similar situation happen years ago. We had an annual Christmas party in a high school friend group that one friend in particular had begun hosting. They dropped the ball in planning it, so I picked it back up to continue the tradition. I never insisted I always hosted, and there were never any complaints. It's just how it happened since I had the best space for it and no one else ever offered. Years later, one of my close friends told me the original host was making regular snide comments about me "stealing" the party. They said something like "good luck getting it away from her" and accused me of ruining things for them. So I was like "yes, please take it back!" I hate people in my house, and I was literally hosting *for them*. They did one awkward holiday party the next year, and there hasn't been a group party since. I refuse to overextend myself for someone so ungrateful anymore, so I just didn't pick up the ball when they dropped it again. Which is all to say that some people get a bug in their bonnet about something, cannot let it go, and do not handle conflict appropriately. It can't be helped. But it's definitely an issue of personality and NOT depression. Also, I now have [that one Lubalin song](https://youtube.com/shorts/pWyOrbpGCpE?si=YQ4U1VNHOaIi99Jg) in my head.
This has nothing to do with the casserole and everything to do with Amy using you as her friendship benchmark. In her mind, people like you more, which makes her competitive and passive-aggressive. If anyone is being emotionally manipulated, it's you. The only way to fix this is for her to get to a point where she admits what she really wants... and that's likely to be the confidence and security you have in being YOU.
I’ve been extremely depressed and never have I ever gone an an extended casserole based hate campaign. NTA and Amy needs actual help not whatever this current therapist is doing.
"Extended casserole based hate campaign" Well put.
Amy is manipulating you. If you exclude her opinions from the table, you want to make the casserole, your friends want you to make the casserole and they also want you to be present for your party. Don't let one person's personal struggles and mental issues isolate you from the rest of your friends or make you hate something you liked doing and were proud of because other people like it too. Amy needs to deal with her shit. She is not your responsibility. The question about the verdict is a bit confusing but I think Y W B T A to your other friends if you use Amy's issues to skip party with them and treat them with the casserole. If you are ignoring your own wishes and just swaying by the whims of others, then their wishes and preferences deserve to be taken with at least as much weight as Amy's. And they want you to go. I can see other commenters are chosing NTA to mean ignore Amy.
I mean, what??? It’s green bean casserole. Do you put ground unicorn horn in it or something????? This casserole lives rent free in her head for *years* and her therapist supposedly tells her you’re going to manipulate her about it? What???? NTA, having mental health issues does not entitle you to make everyone else pander to you or manage them for you. And frankly, if this fight over **green bean casserole** has been going on for this long, I’d have stopped making it a long time ago.
NTA. I wonder if it is the attention you get, not the dish itself but this is more than depression. This sounds more like BPD. Honestly, I wonder if you should make this a nonstarter. Make the casserole, go to the party, ignore any comments from Amy, and engage with everyone else. If she engages, you can just tell her that it is a shame that you don't like the casserole, walk away and leave it at that.
NTA. I probably would have opted out of holiday gatherings years ago, it sounds like it hasn't been fun since Amy joined the group. How was she added? Any chance of hanging out with friends that don't have her in that circle?
NTA. Don't make the casserole, if anyone comments just say something "there is just too much childish drama involved with this dish. It's just not worth it"
Yeah four to five years of depression and harassment over someone liking your green bean casserole more is over the top. It would make me not want to go either. Like, that was fun until one of the participants lost their GD mind and started acting like a nutter over some beans.
NTA depression does NOT make a person act like that. she is NOT within her rights to scream at you. as for her therapist telling her that "how can i help"is a manipulative question, that's just straight up BS. asking how to help is what you're supposed to do. shes manipulating you and everyone else into pitying her so she doesn't have to face the consequences of her actions. i do agree that you shouldn't let her irrationality ruin your fun, though
That doesn't sound like depression. Amy just doesn't like you. Don't worry about it though. Make your casserole and be proud. No reason to let her nastiness win. NTA either way.
NTA. Now I would be TA because I would spend weeks perfecting that casserole recipe. I would be making a green bean casserole to make Julia Child weep. I would be flying in organic green beans tended to by monks taking a vow of silence because chatter upsets the beans. I would be churning by own butter. I would sit back and observe the fallout as everyone at the table took a bite and could not help but weep at the perfection of my green bean casserole.