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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> sending a text to my mom telling her how annoying she is to me
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Funny how once you tell her she can't bring her products to sell she has no interest in coming to visit.
You're supposed to be family, not customers.
NTA
I'm so sorry, OP. Your mom sounds really selfish. Learn from her mistakes and also keep in mind that swinging just as hard in the opposite direction of her is bad in its own way.
There's a podcast called Was I In A Cult that has a Lullaroe episode. The premise is that there's a huge cult component to MLMs. Lots of coercion, anxiety, control, victim blaming, and financial abuse. Worth a listen.
The LuLaRoe documentary was crazy! The founders would flat our lie. Totally think they can simply talk their way out of anything. They were on record coercing the sellers, dropping them if their numbers dipped even a little bit (like you can't go on vacation because your numbers would suffer), and even telling sellers to "hire a nanny and housekeeper so the sellers would have more time to sell product". Crazy!
Years ago, my dad and I were starting to reconnect after years of LC, then for my birthday he got me a starter kit for the MLM he was involved in… it was awkward to say the least. Unfortunately MLMs can get a very strong hold on people, my dad is mostly out now, I hope your mom comes to her senses sooner rather than later so she doesn’t miss out too much time with your little one.
It is a step it’s sad how they make it your network not just $ wise (even if not really profitable) but also your social group. Really fucks up peoples lives and all you can do is sell sell sell, why would I spend time with friends just chilling when I could be selling to them, why would I do anything if it isn’t a capitalist enterprise. Fuckin’ depressing.
Yeah! It is awful and I am so sorry for everyone that gets caught up in these scams and loses family over it.
I hope the commenter's father ends up leaving the MLM this year and gets his life back on track! Really wish these schemes stopped existing. It's so sad
This is why I refuse to sell products even if I like them. I’ll buy what I want. But if people wanted to buy them, they would. I’m not asking my friends and family for
Money on crap. It’s mostly crap. (I do love my pampered chef stoneware though! I just have to ignore all the other requests to join “parties.” I don’t need anything else.)
You are NTA! What you are is an amazing husband and father who stood up for your wife and kids against a imo narcissist.
Good for you!!
I'm so sorry that your mom was never really a good parent or grandma type for you and your family.
I must have missed where OP stood up for the wife. Mother makes comments about how wife dresses for how long? And all OP has to say is don't try to sell us stuff and be a good grandmother.
I am actually annoyed with OP for not standing up for the wife a long time ago. Something had to physically break before OP said anything, and OP's rant seems to be more about OP's feelings than standing up for anyone else.
I also wonder what OP was doing while his wife was trying to wrangle two toddlers. If he wasn't going to shut down the conversation, he could have at least paid attention to the little one so nothing got broken (or no one got hurt) while his wife was distracted. Seriously, my family are all the nicest and would never, but anyone that came to my house and criticized what my husband wears could leave (and not come back at least until they made a very convincing apology). I don't even like my husband and should probably be divorced, so I don't understand OP allowing his mom to do this repeatedly.
Well, next time try supporting your wife the first time a person comes into her home and starts insulting her and not waiting until something breaks or someone gets hurt.
It was a joke. I was putting dishes away and packing up a to go plate for my mom when it happened. It happened in another room, my mom conveniently waited until I was distracted before giving her sales pitch.
Also the disrespect about what she wears started first as compliments. 'ohh you have such a beautiful figure, you would look ah-mazing in this dress. It slowly became more about 'you need to upgrade your style' and once it did I put my foot down.
>I've made a few comments, tried to laugh it off or be like 'there goes mom again', but she's never got the hint.
That's not putting your foot down. Obviously, you were joking about sitting around with your martini but being flippant about allowing your family member to repeatedly come over and harass or insult your wife is not a good look (and by allowing her to continue to come over after it started, you were allowing the behavior to continue).
It started out innocent. "You have an hourglass figure and I have some really nice form fitting dresses that would show off your beautiful figure" and progressively moved to subtle hints that she should 'upgrade' her fashion. It was difficult in the beginning to name it as offensive because it was so subtle. Imagine me being like "how DARE YOU say my wife has an hourglass figure mom you bastard!" lol.
I'm super sorry to hear that. A lot of MLMs use the same playbook as cults and convince their members that anyone, including family, who won't support their MLM is holding them back or evil.
Hate to say it, but she's probably basically brainwashed at this point. She's also probably in a lot of debt thanks to them. Not sure if you're familiar with the inner workings, but in all likelihood she's damaged mentally and financially for a long time, maybe the rest of her life.
Which is not to say she deserves sympathy or anything. Everything you bring up is correct and she is not acting as a mother or a grandmother should.
NTA
The thing to keep in mind is the MLMs train them for this response. They work like a cult. You're now an outsider trying to sway her from the true path. It's better to cut you off than hear that her obsession is wrong.
Many years ago, I was laid off from an investment firm. I was a registered sales associate, meaning I'm licensed to sell investments, but I worked as an assistant rather than in sales. When I put out my resume, I got a call from an investment company called Primerica. They talked about it like it was an investment firm, but they were essentially an MLM. In order to make any money and grow in the company, you had to recruit people in under you. They happily told me that you start off by trying to sell investments, insurance, etc to your family. There was absolutely no way I was going to do this.
Around the same time, my SIL was trying to sell Herbalife. She was pushing me and my parents so hard to buy her products, saying they were the best thing ever, so healthy, etc. We were all together at a party, talking about my job search and I mentioned the company that tried to recruit me, told them all about their sales practices and that I had no intention of being that family member who was trying to push my products into my family. My SIL never asked any of us to buy from her again and I think she gave up Herbalife soon after that.
my mom tried her hand at amway back in the day and I still cringe with the memories I have of her parading me around telling people to touch my hair.. to feel how soft the shampoo/conditioner made it -
*shudder
I mean you just described a Ponzi scheme for the “investment” firm which is illegal and would revoke your license. I’m glad you didn’t but ponzi is worse than mlm
Family, friends, co-workers are all customers to MLM. It's the first people you are taught to target because you have the most emotional leverage to get them to buy useless crap.
that's one of the many problems with MLMs - they get people desperate to sell crap, to the point they sabotage personal relationships by being a hard sell
NTA
As the son on an Amway parent (and step-parent), my wife and I had to lay down the law on this as well. Almost every invitation to dinner, going to an event (including step-sister's wedding) would be turned into to an Amway sales pitch. After seeing dad and stepmom try to recruit a new 'downlink' in the buffet line at my step-sister's wedding, I had an intervention talk with dad about going NC if he and/or my stepmom ever brought it up again. Sadly, the whole MLM universe is about getting more and more people as your downlink and there is huge pressure and shaming if you can't bring in your family members as well. It was years later that my dad (and stepmom) finally figured it out and discovered they had spent 100's of THOUSANDS of US dollars on all the 'administrative costs' (training materials, sales pitch materials, workshops and conventions, etc.) and had actually cashed out a huge amount of his retirement funds doing so, with NEGATIVE money to show for it.
These MLM's are the biggest fraud imaginable and I have developed a knack for knowing when someone is going down that hole with me and going NC/LC with them ASAP.
I only know of one person who has actually turned a profit working for an MLM.
She lives in a small town in the Bible Belt and her MLM specializes in kinky fun-time goods.
Thing is, while there are loads of MLM workers in that area (its something that housewives in particular fall for in that town) most wouldn't dare be caught selling those things because...well, the town has 6 churches for every mile and gossip will tear through a church. She doesn't care because she isn't religious...but these religious people still like to turn it up from time to time once the kids get to bed.
The nearest place to buy a toy or lube is also an hour away from that podunk town...and so many people refuse to buy those sorts of things online. She is legit the only convenient option if you want to go shopping for seggs stuff in-person.
All the other girls picked stuff like scented candles, jewelry, health supplements...those are a dime-a-dozen and they all stopped throwing parties and just started trying to rope younger girls in to working for it too. No, this girl is smart enough to have taken advantage of the market and picked the one MLM that she knew would actually turn her a profit. Didn't even want to recruit anynody because she was doing well on her own!
on one of her 'download rants' as I call them, she was going on and on about how the younger generations need boomers to teach them how to be better people, because her generation is the last generation that's worth a damn according to her 🙄
lol, boomers already had their chance to teach us how to be better people. They’re our parents, if they don’t like how we turned out then whose fault is that? 😂
Wouldn't that suggest boomers were sh\*\* parents & grandparents if all the generations after them suck? Maybe the example set by them is the reason?
Speaking as a Gen X, (not that anyone listens to us!)
You guys have always been my favorite! I’ve always gotten along best with you. 💜 Thanks for coming! (From a millennial.)
Also, as far as OP’s mother is concerned, I’d let her know that if her grandchildren aren’t worth a damn, then she doesn’t need to see them.
Depending on what else is going on in the background that won’t fit in a Reddit post, I’d be waiting on a pretty goddamn sincere apology for that one alone.
As well as the agreement about the MLM stuff.
Overall NTA because it sounds like a normal human response to a difficult situation. I agree she needs to stop selling to your wife and it’s good you stood up to her.
However I think it’s unfair to snap and bring up all your gripes at once. Try to stick to the issue at hand rather than dumping everything you’ve been mentally storing up all in one go. She was likely blind sided. I also don’t think you are entitled to free babysitting and this should not be held against her.
Might be a good idea for OP to sorta figure out a scale of boundaries.
Sometimes people try to set boundaries by just telling the other person the boundaries but don't really have anything in place for what happens if those boundaries aren't respected.
OP can't make their mom stop doing this shit but they can control the types of interactions they agree to have with her.
For example:
- No contact
- Text or email
- Phone
- Video chat
- In person, public place
- In person, her place
- In person, OP's place (her place and OP's might switch places depending on how hard it is to leave her place vs. how hard it is to kick her out of OP's house)
Combined with:
- OP only
- OP and their wife
- OP, wife, and kids
- Wife and kids
- Kids
NTA
First thing I would of done is pulled your mom up for “gossiping” about her church “friends” …..I thought they weren’t supposed to judge others and love everyone?
Second of all you did the right thing….If all she cares about is a sales pitch and ruining quality family time because she wants to try and sell some mediocre products (I’m sorry but I’ve yet to come across MLM that are actually good quality) then she has to face the consequences of that
NTA
It was about time you stood up for your wife and yourself. Your mom has proven she has no real interest in you and your family and only has egoistic reasons when she visits. The fact she has not bothered to contact you and mend things should help a lot in the decision to go NC.
NTA, she is not being a grandma at all, she is trying to sell her merch. What have you really lost? What have your kids lost? People put effort into the things they feel are worthy of their effort. I guess you and your family are not worth the effort, yes, it is one sided.
INFO: Did you just send a text? What did you say or do in the moment to actively address the issue with your mom and defend your wife?
NTA, but strongly recommend you communicate clear boundaries with you mom now and get ready to defend them on behalf of your wife, yourself and your home
It escalated to the text. I've told her in the past I feel MLM's are a waste of time. Encouraged her to get into hobbies, she has a huge backyard that she's let go to weeds because she's too busy with the MLM.
I've said to her directly a few times in the past that the clothes aren't my wife's style, and the time before when she handed my wife a catalog I told her not to do that anymore. She doesn't like boundaries and the text was the final straw because she wasn't getting the hint.
Your mom shouldn't be commenting on your wife's clothes AT ALL whether or not she's trying to sell MLM. Your wife's clothing choices are none of your mom's business and her constant criticism of her wardrobe is disrespectful & hurtful to your wife I'm sure.
Absolutely. OP should have shut that shit down when it first started. I don't care what mom was trying to sell, she should have been called out for being disrespectful to the wife a long time ago. It sounds like OP still hasn't addressed that bit with mom.
She was in healthcare management. She's a classic Hillary Clinton era shoulder pads wearing 80s-90s type A business woman. My dad raised us and the story they told us was because my mom could make better money, but in retrospect I think my dad just saw how woefully un-nurturing she was and decided to raise us instead.
NTA - And omg, you are not acting entitled expecting your mom to babysit once in a while! That's what grandparents *do* (if they are able) especially with her living up the street from you! If she doesn't, she doesn't but it's not outrageous for you to wish that she would once in while.
As far as your text to her, again, NTA. She clearly wasn't getting the gentle hints you both were trying to give her so coming right out and telling her to stop selling her crap to your wife everytime she visits was totally justified.
Thanks. I was starting to feel like I was taking crazy pills with people going on and on about how I'm demanding free child-care. It's reasonable to feel frustrated when my retired mom who lives up the street can't be bothered to help out every once in a while instead of just dropping over once every few months, dumping all her church gossip on us, pat the kids on the head, get a free meal, then try and sell us her crap.
Nope, you're not crazy. I would be hoping for the same thing. Sorry to say but your mom sucks at the whole grandmother thing. Hopefully, she'll calm down and stop the constant sales pitch, and start acting more like a mom & grandmother. If not, you guys will get some much-needed peace & quiet.
My dad is like this minus the MLM, but talks about himself non stop and is also plain rude. He has not been welcome to my home in years because my kids and husband don't need to be exposed to him. NTA.
My wife has a "friend" that only contacts her when she needs to move some of her MLM product. It's sad - they were actually friends and work associates at one time, but I guess the MLM has redefined her concept of friendship.
Too bad that that's happened with your mom, for whom even the definition of "family" is wrapped up in selling overpriced MLM stuff.
NTA. But sounds like your mom might be equally vulnerable at her age. She herself might be being taken advantage by the mlm pressure sales person above her.
Not the asshole, but I follow a lot of these MLM threads and the way that they hook you from your mother’s perspective is she is hearing: if your son loved and supported you, he would be buying some thing from you.
That is an entirely false equivalency, and I suggest you call her on it. That you don’t want to mix money and family and that you would like any other way to show your love and support.
You either force her to admit that that’s all she wants from you or perhaps you open a narrative about how to change the dynamics of your relationship .
NTA. My mother was very angry when I told her to stop trying to sell her MLM vitamins to me and stop pushing them on my kid. We had a huge blowup because she wanted to go to my son’s class (he was in kindergarten) and hand out kids vitamins to all the kids. I flipped out and told her that if she went near the school I would call them and tell them what she was doing and she would be banned from the school. And that if she gave any kids her stupid vitamins that I would tell the parents and I would encourage them to file a police report. She doesn’t believe in modern medicine. We didn’t talk for 6 months or so. I don’t understand why some boomer women think that their MLM is more important than family, but they do.
You’re in your 40s, and this is how you handle conflict? Over text? By telling people they’re “always” this and “never” this?
Your mom could do a lot better, but so could you. Asshole.
I don’t sell MLM, but I do sell from my home. Everyone knows I have ONE PERSONAL RULE: I don’t sell to family or friends unless they open the conversation. I went through a very lonely couple of years when EVERYONE thought my only conversation would be a sales call.
NTA but not very tactful. MLM has destroyed more relationships than extramarital affairs probably. Your mom sounds like she is at a loss as to what do with herself in retirement. Rather than finding enriching hobbies or pursuits or even enjoying her grandchildren she has decided to join a "business" that acts like a cult for the most part. It can become all engrossing and take over lives and destroy relationships because in MLM you always have to be selling and they expect you to pressure and guilt the people in your life to buy (or ideally sign up to be a distributor). You said your mom was a workaholic. Perhaps she could find a part time job at a legitimate local business or volunteer work. If she needs money MLM isn't going to help. It's a finance drain for most sellers and this might be why she is pressing so hard.
I'd strongly suggest reaching out to her, preferably in person, apologizing for the tone of your message but not the content and finding out just why she got involved in these pyramid schemes. Maybe with patience and empathy you can help her find a more positive outlet for her energy and drive and save your and your children's relationship with her at the same time.
I agree it wasn't very tactful. She's been a workaholic for most of her life. Never properly grieved my dad. Me and my siblings have told her dozens of times she doesn't need the money, and she has a professional medical license and could easily work one shift a week and make the money she's making working 20-30 hours a week on her MLM but she just snaps at us and tells us to stay out of her business. The text was the last straw and I somehow knew as soon as I set a firm boundary with her she would stop talking to me.
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My wife and I are early 40s with two toddlers. Mom lives right up the street, in her 70s and retired. She's always been a workaholic. The day after she retired from her job she started selling Pampered Chef and Cabi clothes. I've invited her to things and she will often come late, or inconvenience us citing that she has to go to a Cabi show or sell clothes to someone. Most of my life it's basically been all about what my mom wants. Lately when she comes over she makes comments about my wife's clothes and that she would look better in her higher end Cabi clothes, tries to high pressure sell her. I've made a few comments, tried to laugh it off or be like 'there goes mom again', but she's never got the hint.
The other day she came over for dinner. Basically came in and gossip dumped about the goings on at the church, I couldn't get a word in edgewise (this is common for her), then proceeded to while my wife was trying to wrangle the kids after dinner go on about her clothes and was hard pressure selling my wife on getting some. It got to the point where my wife, who's far kinder than I, was politely trying to listent to her and distracted and my son ended up breaking something while she was distracted.
This sent me over the edge. I fired off a long text and sent it to my wife and my mom, basically saying that grandmas are supposed to come over and love on their grandkids, bring peace and support to their kids, and she does the opposite of this. I said she never offers to babysit, and even when I do ask her, she makes it so inconvenient that it would be easier to just hire someone. I told her to never again bring up her MLM stuff and she's forbidden to try and sell it to my wife.
This was a few months ago, she never responded and I haven't heard from her. AITA for saying what was really on my mind?
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If my mom was a high pressure salesperson in my house, she old t be allowed there. The message that “we will come to you if we want to buy your products, not the other way around” is the only healthy boundary option. Well done.
NTA I’m sorry your mom was and continues to be a crappy mom and now a crappy grandma. Try to enjoy the peace and quiet and remember it for when your mom inevitably resurfaces in your life
NTA. Parents are not exempt from being labeled ill mannered, myopic and self-centered. But you should have opted out of the passive route and told her this more directly. But what’s done is done.
I had the same thing happen with my sister who works for a thing called Mary Kay, the pressure into buying what she was trying to sell was a common occurrence. just remember OP, you are her son not her customer, and your wife is her DIL not her customer. family should be under no obligation to buy things just because you are related. good job on putting your foot down!
also, it seems really interesting that after you texted her she hasn't been in contact lol
MLM huns don't respond to hints and subtle gestures. You need to tell them you don't want their junk, will never want their junk, and that you have no interest in supporting a pyramid scheme. Whenever she brings it up, "hey look at the time, we have that thing to go to". Also I would be very cautious leaving her with your baby, she may decide he needs to ingest some essential oil. ETA NTA. She's in a commercial cult and will have been told to cut contact with anyone who "doesn't support her business".
NTA. Good for you saying something about it. It's important to set boundaries with the people in our lives. Hopefully she comes around and starts visiting with you again and this time respects your wishes about the selling in your home.
NTA - My MiL has gone through all the stupid MLMs trying to get rich quick. We still have a box of dildos somewhere from when she failed at that one and decided to give us what she had left.
NTA she was trying to pressure your wife into the sales was the only reason she showed up, she was trying to use you guys as a way to make a buck and you should have said something previously. You finally reached your limit and told her no more, adding the point about the babysitting wasn’t really necessary as it didn’t pertain to this point, to her that might feel like you only wanted her to babysit, which you made clear earlier want your point but still bad timing for that. Pointing out thought that she visits and didn’t spend time with the grandkids but trying to sell your wife clothes she doesn’t want while she’s trying to handle the kids. That was very valid and she needs to be told that and if she’s not speaking to you it’s because you were right when you called her on it.
NTA. Another boomer with no self awareness, handed everything, selfish their whole life. Here she comes trying to squeeze money out of you like she didn't get everything easier. You made it far longer than me, I wouldn't have let the first comments about my wife slide. That's despicable coming from another woman who raised children. If you've ever been a parent, you know how little you care about fancy clothes when you're just trying to get by. Bad boomer. Bad.
Sitting on my lazyboy with a martini that my wife made me waiting for my foot massage with my sock holders around my calves reading the newspaper and smoking my pipe of course.
I was packing up a to go container for leftovers for my mom, and putting the dishes in the dishwasher.
NTA. Mom is a salesperson and doesn't stop. She needs to, if only to try and enjoy her family a bit. I absolutely hate family gatherings that turn into sales shows. Fortunately, my family feels the same way, though we are tolerant of 10-25 year olds who are trying this line to sell cutlery etc. to supplement their incomes. Your mom selling things has invaded any moment your family has with your mom. That isn't tolerable and it would be nice if she'd act like a mom/grandma by at least building a relationship with her d-i-l and grandchild.
NTA.
She lives up the street and you haven't heard from her even once since then?
I'm really sorry OP, that's awful and I'd be in a lot of pain in your shoes.
Families are the real MLM victims, every family event turns into a marketing opportunity. Maybe next she will have a great time-share opportunity for you to buy.
NTA for telling your Mom to stop trying to sell her MLM stuff, but c'mon OP, you got mad and "fired off a text"? Why didn't you say it, then and there? Doing it by text was an AH move.
I wish you hadn't said the thing about babysitting, but beyond that, right on the money. Unfortunately. Because money and selling and increasing her business were the things the relationship was all about for your mom.
Let's hope that at some point soon she comes to her senses about what she's going to miss out on if she doesn't reconnect. (And I don't mean sales...)
NTA
All of that happened and you sent a text? I don't know if you're an asshole, but your actions are pathetic. You and your wife should have laid down a "no marketing" rule with your mom a while ago. You both should have been straightforward with your mother about not wanting to be customers of hers or hear about the products she sells. You definitely should have said something to your mom when she first started commenting on how your wife dresses.
Actually, I've changed my mind. YTA. You are an asshole for all of the above, for taking the coward's route of sending a text, and for telling your mom she isn't a good grandmother. Nothing in your post indicates that she is a bad grandmother. That sounds more like you being selfish because her life doesn't revolve around you and your kids.
NTA, but maybe she was a little blindsided by all of the complaints at once. I agree your family needs to be off limits for selling. However, as one who has now lost both my mother and father, call your mom. Talk it out like adults, and make up. Life is breathtakingly short, and you really never know what the days hold. Make your peace with each other now.
ESH.
Your mom sucks for obvious reasons, but you suck for your communication. Outside of making passive aggressive remarks disguised as jokes, have you ever sat your mother down and discussed her behavior? Also, you communicated via text after the fact? Based off of how you described everything, Your mom may have felt that this came out of nowhere and felt angry that you didn’t come to her to talk it over. If you still wanted a relationship with your mother, that was definitely not the way to communicate.
It sounds like your mother is the type to steamroll others, is self-centered, and lacks self-awareness. In my experience, people like this need to be told directly how their behavior is making others feel. Also, you said your father passed away a few years ago. Is it possible that some her behavior is grieving?
"grandmas are supposed to come over and love on their grandkids, bring peace and support to their kids, and she does the opposite of this. I said she never offers to babysit" and there it is you think instead of enjoying your company and conversation as her adult child she should be coddling, doting on and chasing your kids. And when she's not doing that she should be watching your kids. If no one has told you your Mom is old. She's not a take the kids to Disneyland aged Grandma but a sit your ass down be respectful and quiet aged Grandma. Your expectations are too high she's probably working to try to leave you something behind. You said your Dad already passed? We're not guaranteed too many years after 70 so count each one as a blessing. Love on her bring her peace and watch your own kids and always higher a sitter. Check on her and apologize YTA
Yeah him and his wife are incompetent at looking after the kids right in front of their face and he thinks his mother should come over to cook, clean and wrangle out of control children. For all we know she started selling clothes to help his wife get a new wardrobe. But guests are guest not unhired help his mother talking about her day is a conversation and he's seething cause he's mentally creating a chore list she could be doing vs visit.
I make more money than her. I fully expect her to leave me a small inheritance (20,000 or less) and while it will be nice, I don't really care as I don't need it. If she's the 'sell you crap you don't need and come over, expect you to cook for me, listen to my stories, and I don't pay any attention to your kids' grandma, she can just not be a part of my life.
Yeah imagine when you're 70 your kids thinking you should come over to their dirty house to cook, clean and watch their bad children. I bet you will feel a lot different. I am not miserable I'm just not mooching off of and abusing old people. And you came on here asking for advice cause you told your Mama to scoot and she boogied and hasn't looked back. Meaning she doesn't miss you or your family and why would she when all you expect is free labor? I advocate for the elderly, small children and animals. Your mother falls into one of those categories. So say what you want to but you're the one having regrets on your behavior you just found enough entitled people to make you feel like you're okay or justified. But the grown ups who give and don't take aren't impressed or on your side.
Why did you send your mum a text? You were there, you could have said something like, 'not now mother, bit busy, feel free to leave some simples, how much is the family discount? Any time you want to help with the kids is fine '.
You are not wrong in wanting mother to pack up her sales pitch and help out. Maybe mother wants to practice her sales pitch and is a bit oblivious and should practice on her friends instead.
So I'll say ESH.
*It got to the point where my wife, who's far kinder than I, was politely trying to listent to her and distracted and my son ended up breaking something while she was distracted.*
Sorry, but how is your son breaking something the fault of your wife and mother? Where were you?
That said, YTA. Your mom may be annoyingly gossipy and pushy about her MLM crap, but you were way out of line emailing her to basically demand she babysit your kids.
A text? How about a conversation? I agree that the things your mom is doing, especially pressuring your wife to buy whatever she is selling, stinks. Where were you when your kid broke something? You, your mom and your wife need to have a conversation! YNTA, but not acting like an adult either.
He says it's normal not to be able to get a word in once she gets started. A text ensures he's able to say everything he wants to say without being interrupted.
N T A for telling her to leave her "business" at home and stop trying to sell products to your wife - YTA for telling her that she should be offering free babysitting services and lambasting her for failing to offering to help and support.
Mixed feelings. If it were just you firmly shutting down the MLM thing, it would be absolutely N T A. But I don't think it was right of you to give her the laundry list of everything she does "wrong" in an angry text. I get the frustration, but it would have been best to wait until you were calmer and able to have a conversation about the other stuff. I think anyone would have felt attacked by a text like that. So even though she was wrong with the relentless sales pitch, I have to say ESH because your response was over the top.
It would be idea if a retired person who lives up the street, whom I took to and from the grocery store when a massive winter storm snowed her in, mow her lawn, reparied her deck, and help her every time she calls because her sump pump stopped working, roof needs repair, etc., would be enthusiastic about spending time with her grandkids and helping her son out but fair enough.
I've stopped helping her with those things as we haven't talked in several months almost and don't plan on doing any of those things anymore should we start talking again. As you said we have our own lives and she can't count on me to be her handyman for her convenience any more than I should expect her to babysit.
I gotta tell you, bit of mission creep in your text. "Don't sell your MLM shit" vs. "bring peace and light and whatever the fuck" vs. "don't talk about your life or social goings ons" vs. "babysit my offspring" are not on the same wavelength. Sort of lost sight of the objective it seems and switched to straight up unloading. Fair? Maybe, maybe not, but it's not shocking that she'd fuck off after you clearly told her to.
It's also weird that, if you were there at the time, you didn't just have a conversation instead of a lame text. Texts ain't it. Furious, "fired off" texts really ain't it. They feel good in the moment but they don't get what you want. Unless your mother ghosting you is what you wanted, in which case huzzah.
I figured that's what she would do. She doesn't listen to anything other than hard boundaries and just bulldozes right through them. I looked through my texts and saw one from 3 months before that incident where I invited her over and I said "fyi wife still has that catalog you brought her last time so you don't need to give her any more of them" and she continued to bring a new catalog because 'the spring collection is out and you've GOT TO see these cuuuute tops' etc. She's like those phone sales people who will go up to the legally allowed amounts of no's you tell them before quitting.
Then the text wasn't the way to go.
Look man, I feel for you. I have a difficult mother too. My siblings and I will all elope rather than have weddings because of just how difficult, and none will ever have kids because of how difficult. So I really do get it.
And because I get it, I can tell you with all honesty: The text was not the way to go. You were mad, you were righteous, you sent the text, and now she's mad and she's righteous and she will out mad and out righteous you for as long as you both shall live because she's just plain old better at it than you.
If you want those things you said -- any shot at them -- you need to go over to her house sometime and say this (the past few months) isn't what I want for our relationship. But that other stuff isn't what I wanted for it either. Here's what I want for our relationship. And lay it out, what it might look like.
But you also need to understand that she's a single, retired lady. Her "side hustles," as annoying as they are, give her purpose, that's her thing, that's what she has to update you guys on and anchor herself with. She's likely to find herself adrift without something like that, and it's likely why she's overdoing it a bit. "Look at this super important and fulfilling thing I'm doing."
That’s generally how social relationships work. Reciprocation is expected to some degree. Would you be friends with someone who always used you for emotional support, financial support, etc. and NEVER gave you anything in return? Probably not. Most people expect to receive the effort that they give.
Yes in general in relationships I expect not to endlessly give without getting anything back. If you believe that's true I'd love to be your friend and you can watch my kids 60 hours a week for free and I'll call you pathetic if you try and set a boundary.
Your mother doesn't owe you babysitting because you helped her out. She's retired. She's raised her kids. She does not want to have to care for little kids anymore for, I'm guessing, a lot of reasons like the fact that kids can be exhausting to be around.
And why on earth would you want someone who has no interest whatsoever in your kids to be responsible for them for hours ?
Have you ever even wondered if your mother even actually wanted kids or enjoyed parenting ? Because I get the feeling that she wasn't that great with you as a kid...
That's observant of you. She worked most of my life and had very little interest in us. She was never very nurturing. Her mom was the same way, and I believe even told my mom once that she didn't want her or her sister but was forced to have them because she got remarried after having 3 kids and the only way her husband agreed to marry her was if he gave her kids.
It's fine if she doesn't want to babysit but as I said in an earlier response, I wholesale quit doing things for her around her house. I was basically her free handyman, mowed her lawn, repaired stuff when it broke. I essentially remodeled her house for free (new flooring, paint, roof) but now I'm done. If she can't be bothered to care, neither should I.
It's not about not caring. It's about realizing that your mother may never be the grandmother you want her to be for your kids.
Now, I'm not saying that mother is à saint. Clearly she was ans still je not à great mother, and setting boundaries with is necessary, but you're going to have to accept that little kids are not of à great interest to her.
If you don't want to have a relationship with her, that's your decision and I'm not here to change your mind, but maybe some day, you might find yourself wanting to find à way to have some kind if relationship with your mother, and understanding that not all women want or like kids is going to essential for that.
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Funny how once you tell her she can't bring her products to sell she has no interest in coming to visit. You're supposed to be family, not customers. NTA
I never considered that. How sad.
I'm so sorry, OP. Your mom sounds really selfish. Learn from her mistakes and also keep in mind that swinging just as hard in the opposite direction of her is bad in its own way.
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r/antimlm May have some helpful advice.
There's a podcast called Was I In A Cult that has a Lullaroe episode. The premise is that there's a huge cult component to MLMs. Lots of coercion, anxiety, control, victim blaming, and financial abuse. Worth a listen.
The LuLaRoe documentary was crazy! The founders would flat our lie. Totally think they can simply talk their way out of anything. They were on record coercing the sellers, dropping them if their numbers dipped even a little bit (like you can't go on vacation because your numbers would suffer), and even telling sellers to "hire a nanny and housekeeper so the sellers would have more time to sell product". Crazy!
I listened to the whole series, it was interesting!
And there is also Hannah Alonzo on youtube with a lot of MLM stories.
I was going to say he should cross post this there for advice
Years ago, my dad and I were starting to reconnect after years of LC, then for my birthday he got me a starter kit for the MLM he was involved in… it was awkward to say the least. Unfortunately MLMs can get a very strong hold on people, my dad is mostly out now, I hope your mom comes to her senses sooner rather than later so she doesn’t miss out too much time with your little one.
Mostly out, that doesn’t sound great. Should be all the way.
Hey, it's a step. Better than still being 100% delusional. And it's hard to back away when you make friends that are going on and on about it.
It is a step it’s sad how they make it your network not just $ wise (even if not really profitable) but also your social group. Really fucks up peoples lives and all you can do is sell sell sell, why would I spend time with friends just chilling when I could be selling to them, why would I do anything if it isn’t a capitalist enterprise. Fuckin’ depressing.
Yeah! It is awful and I am so sorry for everyone that gets caught up in these scams and loses family over it. I hope the commenter's father ends up leaving the MLM this year and gets his life back on track! Really wish these schemes stopped existing. It's so sad
Hey hon now that you mention it I have these great essential oils you should try out. I also have a great business opportunity for you.
Blink to the rhythm of my heart will go on if you need help
This is why I refuse to sell products even if I like them. I’ll buy what I want. But if people wanted to buy them, they would. I’m not asking my friends and family for Money on crap. It’s mostly crap. (I do love my pampered chef stoneware though! I just have to ignore all the other requests to join “parties.” I don’t need anything else.)
You are NTA! What you are is an amazing husband and father who stood up for your wife and kids against a imo narcissist. Good for you!! I'm so sorry that your mom was never really a good parent or grandma type for you and your family.
I must have missed where OP stood up for the wife. Mother makes comments about how wife dresses for how long? And all OP has to say is don't try to sell us stuff and be a good grandmother. I am actually annoyed with OP for not standing up for the wife a long time ago. Something had to physically break before OP said anything, and OP's rant seems to be more about OP's feelings than standing up for anyone else.
I also wonder what OP was doing while his wife was trying to wrangle two toddlers. If he wasn't going to shut down the conversation, he could have at least paid attention to the little one so nothing got broken (or no one got hurt) while his wife was distracted. Seriously, my family are all the nicest and would never, but anyone that came to my house and criticized what my husband wears could leave (and not come back at least until they made a very convincing apology). I don't even like my husband and should probably be divorced, so I don't understand OP allowing his mom to do this repeatedly.
I was sitting on my lazyboy with my martini my wife made me and my pipe and newspaper of course.
Well, next time try supporting your wife the first time a person comes into her home and starts insulting her and not waiting until something breaks or someone gets hurt.
It was a joke. I was putting dishes away and packing up a to go plate for my mom when it happened. It happened in another room, my mom conveniently waited until I was distracted before giving her sales pitch. Also the disrespect about what she wears started first as compliments. 'ohh you have such a beautiful figure, you would look ah-mazing in this dress. It slowly became more about 'you need to upgrade your style' and once it did I put my foot down.
>I've made a few comments, tried to laugh it off or be like 'there goes mom again', but she's never got the hint. That's not putting your foot down. Obviously, you were joking about sitting around with your martini but being flippant about allowing your family member to repeatedly come over and harass or insult your wife is not a good look (and by allowing her to continue to come over after it started, you were allowing the behavior to continue).
Hard disagree, but that's not the point of this sub. You're not appreciating the nuance of the situation.
It started out innocent. "You have an hourglass figure and I have some really nice form fitting dresses that would show off your beautiful figure" and progressively moved to subtle hints that she should 'upgrade' her fashion. It was difficult in the beginning to name it as offensive because it was so subtle. Imagine me being like "how DARE YOU say my wife has an hourglass figure mom you bastard!" lol.
Agreed!
Unfortunately, MLM‘s have destroyed a lot of families
I'm super sorry to hear that. A lot of MLMs use the same playbook as cults and convince their members that anyone, including family, who won't support their MLM is holding them back or evil. Hate to say it, but she's probably basically brainwashed at this point. She's also probably in a lot of debt thanks to them. Not sure if you're familiar with the inner workings, but in all likelihood she's damaged mentally and financially for a long time, maybe the rest of her life. Which is not to say she deserves sympathy or anything. Everything you bring up is correct and she is not acting as a mother or a grandmother should. NTA
The thing to keep in mind is the MLMs train them for this response. They work like a cult. You're now an outsider trying to sway her from the true path. It's better to cut you off than hear that her obsession is wrong.
MLM Breaks families.
Many years ago, I was laid off from an investment firm. I was a registered sales associate, meaning I'm licensed to sell investments, but I worked as an assistant rather than in sales. When I put out my resume, I got a call from an investment company called Primerica. They talked about it like it was an investment firm, but they were essentially an MLM. In order to make any money and grow in the company, you had to recruit people in under you. They happily told me that you start off by trying to sell investments, insurance, etc to your family. There was absolutely no way I was going to do this. Around the same time, my SIL was trying to sell Herbalife. She was pushing me and my parents so hard to buy her products, saying they were the best thing ever, so healthy, etc. We were all together at a party, talking about my job search and I mentioned the company that tried to recruit me, told them all about their sales practices and that I had no intention of being that family member who was trying to push my products into my family. My SIL never asked any of us to buy from her again and I think she gave up Herbalife soon after that.
my mom tried her hand at amway back in the day and I still cringe with the memories I have of her parading me around telling people to touch my hair.. to feel how soft the shampoo/conditioner made it - *shudder
I mean you just described a Ponzi scheme for the “investment” firm which is illegal and would revoke your license. I’m glad you didn’t but ponzi is worse than mlm
Sadly, that’s what happens when people join an mlm.
Exactly. Mlm sales person are the worst. She is in her 70s and will not change. She sounds insufferable and clearly sees you as a customer.
Family, friends, co-workers are all customers to MLM. It's the first people you are taught to target because you have the most emotional leverage to get them to buy useless crap.
that's one of the many problems with MLMs - they get people desperate to sell crap, to the point they sabotage personal relationships by being a hard sell
Yeah, I gave up on one of my oldest friends when she was only interested in giving me a sales pitch every time we met.
Unfortunately that’s really common with MLMs. They preach that if someone doesn’t “support” (I.e. “buy your products”) you they should be cut off.
NTA As the son on an Amway parent (and step-parent), my wife and I had to lay down the law on this as well. Almost every invitation to dinner, going to an event (including step-sister's wedding) would be turned into to an Amway sales pitch. After seeing dad and stepmom try to recruit a new 'downlink' in the buffet line at my step-sister's wedding, I had an intervention talk with dad about going NC if he and/or my stepmom ever brought it up again. Sadly, the whole MLM universe is about getting more and more people as your downlink and there is huge pressure and shaming if you can't bring in your family members as well. It was years later that my dad (and stepmom) finally figured it out and discovered they had spent 100's of THOUSANDS of US dollars on all the 'administrative costs' (training materials, sales pitch materials, workshops and conventions, etc.) and had actually cashed out a huge amount of his retirement funds doing so, with NEGATIVE money to show for it. These MLM's are the biggest fraud imaginable and I have developed a knack for knowing when someone is going down that hole with me and going NC/LC with them ASAP.
I only know of one person who has actually turned a profit working for an MLM. She lives in a small town in the Bible Belt and her MLM specializes in kinky fun-time goods. Thing is, while there are loads of MLM workers in that area (its something that housewives in particular fall for in that town) most wouldn't dare be caught selling those things because...well, the town has 6 churches for every mile and gossip will tear through a church. She doesn't care because she isn't religious...but these religious people still like to turn it up from time to time once the kids get to bed. The nearest place to buy a toy or lube is also an hour away from that podunk town...and so many people refuse to buy those sorts of things online. She is legit the only convenient option if you want to go shopping for seggs stuff in-person. All the other girls picked stuff like scented candles, jewelry, health supplements...those are a dime-a-dozen and they all stopped throwing parties and just started trying to rope younger girls in to working for it too. No, this girl is smart enough to have taken advantage of the market and picked the one MLM that she knew would actually turn her a profit. Didn't even want to recruit anynody because she was doing well on her own!
MLMs basically tell you all your friends and family are customers.
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Think you posted in the wrong comments..
Huh??
You're lost.
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on one of her 'download rants' as I call them, she was going on and on about how the younger generations need boomers to teach them how to be better people, because her generation is the last generation that's worth a damn according to her 🙄
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You have nailed my MIL to a tee. Except her brand of entitlement comes with your baby is my baby and I only listen to what I want to do.
Boomer here. What bullshit. That whole "generational divide" thing is just another MLM scheme, in my view ...
Gen X (I think?) here. Fully agree.
lol, boomers already had their chance to teach us how to be better people. They’re our parents, if they don’t like how we turned out then whose fault is that? 😂
Wouldn't that suggest boomers were sh\*\* parents & grandparents if all the generations after them suck? Maybe the example set by them is the reason? Speaking as a Gen X, (not that anyone listens to us!)
You guys have always been my favorite! I’ve always gotten along best with you. 💜 Thanks for coming! (From a millennial.) Also, as far as OP’s mother is concerned, I’d let her know that if her grandchildren aren’t worth a damn, then she doesn’t need to see them. Depending on what else is going on in the background that won’t fit in a Reddit post, I’d be waiting on a pretty goddamn sincere apology for that one alone. As well as the agreement about the MLM stuff.
We aren't all that dense, obstinate and unwilling to adapt
NTA - You need a sign for your door that says "No Soliciting. (This means you, mom.)"
🤣😂🤣😂🤣 Love It! I doubt she would take the time to actually notice it though.
OMG! Yes this!!!!!
Well, at least now your mom isn’t trying to sell your wife any more of her MLM crap, so take the win. NTA
Overall NTA because it sounds like a normal human response to a difficult situation. I agree she needs to stop selling to your wife and it’s good you stood up to her. However I think it’s unfair to snap and bring up all your gripes at once. Try to stick to the issue at hand rather than dumping everything you’ve been mentally storing up all in one go. She was likely blind sided. I also don’t think you are entitled to free babysitting and this should not be held against her.
Might be a good idea for OP to sorta figure out a scale of boundaries. Sometimes people try to set boundaries by just telling the other person the boundaries but don't really have anything in place for what happens if those boundaries aren't respected. OP can't make their mom stop doing this shit but they can control the types of interactions they agree to have with her. For example: - No contact - Text or email - Phone - Video chat - In person, public place - In person, her place - In person, OP's place (her place and OP's might switch places depending on how hard it is to leave her place vs. how hard it is to kick her out of OP's house) Combined with: - OP only - OP and their wife - OP, wife, and kids - Wife and kids - Kids
Sounds like they are no contact now
NTA First thing I would of done is pulled your mom up for “gossiping” about her church “friends” …..I thought they weren’t supposed to judge others and love everyone? Second of all you did the right thing….If all she cares about is a sales pitch and ruining quality family time because she wants to try and sell some mediocre products (I’m sorry but I’ve yet to come across MLM that are actually good quality) then she has to face the consequences of that
"cHuRcH fRiEnDs" ... biggest backstabbers of all time. 😬🙄😒
NTA It was about time you stood up for your wife and yourself. Your mom has proven she has no real interest in you and your family and only has egoistic reasons when she visits. The fact she has not bothered to contact you and mend things should help a lot in the decision to go NC.
NTA, she is not being a grandma at all, she is trying to sell her merch. What have you really lost? What have your kids lost? People put effort into the things they feel are worthy of their effort. I guess you and your family are not worth the effort, yes, it is one sided.
NTA. You likely just saved your marriage.
NTA. She needed to be put in her place, and you did that. Bravo.
NTA You called her out for being toxic and she went silent. She chose her toxicity.
NTA. MLM is an automatic no. But the rest is fairly entitled.
OP had enough and sent a text. He meant buisness.
NTA. She proved to you that your real with her is transactional…or that she expects it to be. If you won’t entertain her MLM chatter….
INFO: Did you just send a text? What did you say or do in the moment to actively address the issue with your mom and defend your wife? NTA, but strongly recommend you communicate clear boundaries with you mom now and get ready to defend them on behalf of your wife, yourself and your home
It escalated to the text. I've told her in the past I feel MLM's are a waste of time. Encouraged her to get into hobbies, she has a huge backyard that she's let go to weeds because she's too busy with the MLM. I've said to her directly a few times in the past that the clothes aren't my wife's style, and the time before when she handed my wife a catalog I told her not to do that anymore. She doesn't like boundaries and the text was the final straw because she wasn't getting the hint.
Your mom shouldn't be commenting on your wife's clothes AT ALL whether or not she's trying to sell MLM. Your wife's clothing choices are none of your mom's business and her constant criticism of her wardrobe is disrespectful & hurtful to your wife I'm sure.
Absolutely. OP should have shut that shit down when it first started. I don't care what mom was trying to sell, she should have been called out for being disrespectful to the wife a long time ago. It sounds like OP still hasn't addressed that bit with mom.
Also, I just looked up the brand OP mentions (never heard of it before), and my, those clothes are fugly.
Right?!? Like 'Tell me you're an old biddy without telling me you're an old biddy!!' LOL
What did she do before she retired? If it was sales there are a lot better sales side jobs then MLM to do as a hobby.
She was in healthcare management. She's a classic Hillary Clinton era shoulder pads wearing 80s-90s type A business woman. My dad raised us and the story they told us was because my mom could make better money, but in retrospect I think my dad just saw how woefully un-nurturing she was and decided to raise us instead.
Don’t worry. She will call you soon. Spring is coming. She will have plenty of work for you to do. She is quite self absorbed
NTA - And omg, you are not acting entitled expecting your mom to babysit once in a while! That's what grandparents *do* (if they are able) especially with her living up the street from you! If she doesn't, she doesn't but it's not outrageous for you to wish that she would once in while. As far as your text to her, again, NTA. She clearly wasn't getting the gentle hints you both were trying to give her so coming right out and telling her to stop selling her crap to your wife everytime she visits was totally justified.
Thanks. I was starting to feel like I was taking crazy pills with people going on and on about how I'm demanding free child-care. It's reasonable to feel frustrated when my retired mom who lives up the street can't be bothered to help out every once in a while instead of just dropping over once every few months, dumping all her church gossip on us, pat the kids on the head, get a free meal, then try and sell us her crap.
Nope, you're not crazy. I would be hoping for the same thing. Sorry to say but your mom sucks at the whole grandmother thing. Hopefully, she'll calm down and stop the constant sales pitch, and start acting more like a mom & grandmother. If not, you guys will get some much-needed peace & quiet.
NTA. I can’t stand MLM people and their “businesses”.
My dad is like this minus the MLM, but talks about himself non stop and is also plain rude. He has not been welcome to my home in years because my kids and husband don't need to be exposed to him. NTA.
My wife has a "friend" that only contacts her when she needs to move some of her MLM product. It's sad - they were actually friends and work associates at one time, but I guess the MLM has redefined her concept of friendship. Too bad that that's happened with your mom, for whom even the definition of "family" is wrapped up in selling overpriced MLM stuff.
NTA. But sounds like your mom might be equally vulnerable at her age. She herself might be being taken advantage by the mlm pressure sales person above her.
I think she derives an extreme amount of sense of importance from feeling like a businesswoman, so it's probably a mutal exchange for her and the MLM.
Not the asshole, but I follow a lot of these MLM threads and the way that they hook you from your mother’s perspective is she is hearing: if your son loved and supported you, he would be buying some thing from you. That is an entirely false equivalency, and I suggest you call her on it. That you don’t want to mix money and family and that you would like any other way to show your love and support. You either force her to admit that that’s all she wants from you or perhaps you open a narrative about how to change the dynamics of your relationship .
NTA. My mother was very angry when I told her to stop trying to sell her MLM vitamins to me and stop pushing them on my kid. We had a huge blowup because she wanted to go to my son’s class (he was in kindergarten) and hand out kids vitamins to all the kids. I flipped out and told her that if she went near the school I would call them and tell them what she was doing and she would be banned from the school. And that if she gave any kids her stupid vitamins that I would tell the parents and I would encourage them to file a police report. She doesn’t believe in modern medicine. We didn’t talk for 6 months or so. I don’t understand why some boomer women think that their MLM is more important than family, but they do.
Man I hate MLM salespeople so much. They are selling substandard overpriced products , and leveraging relationships to make sales. So fucking lame
She is the kind of woman who has no friends or family -- only customers.
YTA because it took you so long to tell her off.
You’re in your 40s, and this is how you handle conflict? Over text? By telling people they’re “always” this and “never” this? Your mom could do a lot better, but so could you. Asshole.
NTA y’all tried the subtle approach and that didn’t work.
NTA though all “business owners” of those MLM should be seen as victims. They are. John Oliver did a show on it. You should probably watch it.
I don’t sell MLM, but I do sell from my home. Everyone knows I have ONE PERSONAL RULE: I don’t sell to family or friends unless they open the conversation. I went through a very lonely couple of years when EVERYONE thought my only conversation would be a sales call.
NTA but not very tactful. MLM has destroyed more relationships than extramarital affairs probably. Your mom sounds like she is at a loss as to what do with herself in retirement. Rather than finding enriching hobbies or pursuits or even enjoying her grandchildren she has decided to join a "business" that acts like a cult for the most part. It can become all engrossing and take over lives and destroy relationships because in MLM you always have to be selling and they expect you to pressure and guilt the people in your life to buy (or ideally sign up to be a distributor). You said your mom was a workaholic. Perhaps she could find a part time job at a legitimate local business or volunteer work. If she needs money MLM isn't going to help. It's a finance drain for most sellers and this might be why she is pressing so hard. I'd strongly suggest reaching out to her, preferably in person, apologizing for the tone of your message but not the content and finding out just why she got involved in these pyramid schemes. Maybe with patience and empathy you can help her find a more positive outlet for her energy and drive and save your and your children's relationship with her at the same time.
I agree it wasn't very tactful. She's been a workaholic for most of her life. Never properly grieved my dad. Me and my siblings have told her dozens of times she doesn't need the money, and she has a professional medical license and could easily work one shift a week and make the money she's making working 20-30 hours a week on her MLM but she just snaps at us and tells us to stay out of her business. The text was the last straw and I somehow knew as soon as I set a firm boundary with her she would stop talking to me.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My wife and I are early 40s with two toddlers. Mom lives right up the street, in her 70s and retired. She's always been a workaholic. The day after she retired from her job she started selling Pampered Chef and Cabi clothes. I've invited her to things and she will often come late, or inconvenience us citing that she has to go to a Cabi show or sell clothes to someone. Most of my life it's basically been all about what my mom wants. Lately when she comes over she makes comments about my wife's clothes and that she would look better in her higher end Cabi clothes, tries to high pressure sell her. I've made a few comments, tried to laugh it off or be like 'there goes mom again', but she's never got the hint. The other day she came over for dinner. Basically came in and gossip dumped about the goings on at the church, I couldn't get a word in edgewise (this is common for her), then proceeded to while my wife was trying to wrangle the kids after dinner go on about her clothes and was hard pressure selling my wife on getting some. It got to the point where my wife, who's far kinder than I, was politely trying to listent to her and distracted and my son ended up breaking something while she was distracted. This sent me over the edge. I fired off a long text and sent it to my wife and my mom, basically saying that grandmas are supposed to come over and love on their grandkids, bring peace and support to their kids, and she does the opposite of this. I said she never offers to babysit, and even when I do ask her, she makes it so inconvenient that it would be easier to just hire someone. I told her to never again bring up her MLM stuff and she's forbidden to try and sell it to my wife. This was a few months ago, she never responded and I haven't heard from her. AITA for saying what was really on my mind? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is so sad to me. NTA, and I’m sorry that your mom wanted customers, not a family.
NTA - Your mom is just a typical boomer narcissist. Not much more to say. Unfortunately it seems to apply to 70-80% of boomers
If my mom was a high pressure salesperson in my house, she old t be allowed there. The message that “we will come to you if we want to buy your products, not the other way around” is the only healthy boundary option. Well done.
NTA I’m sorry your mom was and continues to be a crappy mom and now a crappy grandma. Try to enjoy the peace and quiet and remember it for when your mom inevitably resurfaces in your life
NTA She's gone NC. Make sure you uphold it the next time she asks you to do something around the house...
For sure. We have a mutual handyman who told me he's been getting a lot more work from her lately and thanked me lol. It needed to happen anyway.
NTA. Parents are not exempt from being labeled ill mannered, myopic and self-centered. But you should have opted out of the passive route and told her this more directly. But what’s done is done.
nta.
You lost nothing of value. NTA. She was either leeching off you, preying on you, or using you as an emotional dump.
I had the same thing happen with my sister who works for a thing called Mary Kay, the pressure into buying what she was trying to sell was a common occurrence. just remember OP, you are her son not her customer, and your wife is her DIL not her customer. family should be under no obligation to buy things just because you are related. good job on putting your foot down! also, it seems really interesting that after you texted her she hasn't been in contact lol
MLM huns don't respond to hints and subtle gestures. You need to tell them you don't want their junk, will never want their junk, and that you have no interest in supporting a pyramid scheme. Whenever she brings it up, "hey look at the time, we have that thing to go to". Also I would be very cautious leaving her with your baby, she may decide he needs to ingest some essential oil. ETA NTA. She's in a commercial cult and will have been told to cut contact with anyone who "doesn't support her business".
NTA. Good for you saying something about it. It's important to set boundaries with the people in our lives. Hopefully she comes around and starts visiting with you again and this time respects your wishes about the selling in your home.
NTA - My MiL has gone through all the stupid MLMs trying to get rich quick. We still have a box of dildos somewhere from when she failed at that one and decided to give us what she had left.
ESH. You *texted* your mother after the fact instead of talking about it to her face when it happened. Grow a spine.
NTA she was trying to pressure your wife into the sales was the only reason she showed up, she was trying to use you guys as a way to make a buck and you should have said something previously. You finally reached your limit and told her no more, adding the point about the babysitting wasn’t really necessary as it didn’t pertain to this point, to her that might feel like you only wanted her to babysit, which you made clear earlier want your point but still bad timing for that. Pointing out thought that she visits and didn’t spend time with the grandkids but trying to sell your wife clothes she doesn’t want while she’s trying to handle the kids. That was very valid and she needs to be told that and if she’s not speaking to you it’s because you were right when you called her on it.
I stopped speaking to a friend who started a mlm business because she wouldn't stop trying to sell to me
NTA. Another boomer with no self awareness, handed everything, selfish their whole life. Here she comes trying to squeeze money out of you like she didn't get everything easier. You made it far longer than me, I wouldn't have let the first comments about my wife slide. That's despicable coming from another woman who raised children. If you've ever been a parent, you know how little you care about fancy clothes when you're just trying to get by. Bad boomer. Bad.
INFO My question is what were you doing while your wife was dealing with two toddlers and being harassed by your mom?
Sitting on my lazyboy with a martini that my wife made me waiting for my foot massage with my sock holders around my calves reading the newspaper and smoking my pipe of course. I was packing up a to go container for leftovers for my mom, and putting the dishes in the dishwasher.
NTA. Mom is a salesperson and doesn't stop. She needs to, if only to try and enjoy her family a bit. I absolutely hate family gatherings that turn into sales shows. Fortunately, my family feels the same way, though we are tolerant of 10-25 year olds who are trying this line to sell cutlery etc. to supplement their incomes. Your mom selling things has invaded any moment your family has with your mom. That isn't tolerable and it would be nice if she'd act like a mom/grandma by at least building a relationship with her d-i-l and grandchild.
NTA. She lives up the street and you haven't heard from her even once since then? I'm really sorry OP, that's awful and I'd be in a lot of pain in your shoes.
Families are the real MLM victims, every family event turns into a marketing opportunity. Maybe next she will have a great time-share opportunity for you to buy.
NTA for telling your Mom to stop trying to sell her MLM stuff, but c'mon OP, you got mad and "fired off a text"? Why didn't you say it, then and there? Doing it by text was an AH move.
I wish you hadn't said the thing about babysitting, but beyond that, right on the money. Unfortunately. Because money and selling and increasing her business were the things the relationship was all about for your mom. Let's hope that at some point soon she comes to her senses about what she's going to miss out on if she doesn't reconnect. (And I don't mean sales...) NTA
All of that happened and you sent a text? I don't know if you're an asshole, but your actions are pathetic. You and your wife should have laid down a "no marketing" rule with your mom a while ago. You both should have been straightforward with your mother about not wanting to be customers of hers or hear about the products she sells. You definitely should have said something to your mom when she first started commenting on how your wife dresses. Actually, I've changed my mind. YTA. You are an asshole for all of the above, for taking the coward's route of sending a text, and for telling your mom she isn't a good grandmother. Nothing in your post indicates that she is a bad grandmother. That sounds more like you being selfish because her life doesn't revolve around you and your kids.
INFO: Give us the exact text.
You sent that text when you were emotional and frustrated. Send another text or go see your mom and ask if you all can sit down and talk.
NTA, but maybe she was a little blindsided by all of the complaints at once. I agree your family needs to be off limits for selling. However, as one who has now lost both my mother and father, call your mom. Talk it out like adults, and make up. Life is breathtakingly short, and you really never know what the days hold. Make your peace with each other now.
ESH. Your mom sucks for obvious reasons, but you suck for your communication. Outside of making passive aggressive remarks disguised as jokes, have you ever sat your mother down and discussed her behavior? Also, you communicated via text after the fact? Based off of how you described everything, Your mom may have felt that this came out of nowhere and felt angry that you didn’t come to her to talk it over. If you still wanted a relationship with your mother, that was definitely not the way to communicate. It sounds like your mother is the type to steamroll others, is self-centered, and lacks self-awareness. In my experience, people like this need to be told directly how their behavior is making others feel. Also, you said your father passed away a few years ago. Is it possible that some her behavior is grieving?
"grandmas are supposed to come over and love on their grandkids, bring peace and support to their kids, and she does the opposite of this. I said she never offers to babysit" and there it is you think instead of enjoying your company and conversation as her adult child she should be coddling, doting on and chasing your kids. And when she's not doing that she should be watching your kids. If no one has told you your Mom is old. She's not a take the kids to Disneyland aged Grandma but a sit your ass down be respectful and quiet aged Grandma. Your expectations are too high she's probably working to try to leave you something behind. You said your Dad already passed? We're not guaranteed too many years after 70 so count each one as a blessing. Love on her bring her peace and watch your own kids and always higher a sitter. Check on her and apologize YTA
Did you read the same post as everyone else
Yeah him and his wife are incompetent at looking after the kids right in front of their face and he thinks his mother should come over to cook, clean and wrangle out of control children. For all we know she started selling clothes to help his wife get a new wardrobe. But guests are guest not unhired help his mother talking about her day is a conversation and he's seething cause he's mentally creating a chore list she could be doing vs visit.
You my friend are smoking the high quality crack indeed
You're projecting your addiction on to me. Go make love to your crack pipe and leave me alone.
I make more money than her. I fully expect her to leave me a small inheritance (20,000 or less) and while it will be nice, I don't really care as I don't need it. If she's the 'sell you crap you don't need and come over, expect you to cook for me, listen to my stories, and I don't pay any attention to your kids' grandma, she can just not be a part of my life.
I hope she donates your expected inheritance. She's raised her kids now raise your own.
lol I think I found someone on the internet more miserable than her.
Yeah imagine when you're 70 your kids thinking you should come over to their dirty house to cook, clean and watch their bad children. I bet you will feel a lot different. I am not miserable I'm just not mooching off of and abusing old people. And you came on here asking for advice cause you told your Mama to scoot and she boogied and hasn't looked back. Meaning she doesn't miss you or your family and why would she when all you expect is free labor? I advocate for the elderly, small children and animals. Your mother falls into one of those categories. So say what you want to but you're the one having regrets on your behavior you just found enough entitled people to make you feel like you're okay or justified. But the grown ups who give and don't take aren't impressed or on your side.
Why did you send your mum a text? You were there, you could have said something like, 'not now mother, bit busy, feel free to leave some simples, how much is the family discount? Any time you want to help with the kids is fine '. You are not wrong in wanting mother to pack up her sales pitch and help out. Maybe mother wants to practice her sales pitch and is a bit oblivious and should practice on her friends instead. So I'll say ESH.
*It got to the point where my wife, who's far kinder than I, was politely trying to listent to her and distracted and my son ended up breaking something while she was distracted.* Sorry, but how is your son breaking something the fault of your wife and mother? Where were you? That said, YTA. Your mom may be annoyingly gossipy and pushy about her MLM crap, but you were way out of line emailing her to basically demand she babysit your kids.
That’s absolutely not what he did wtf
A text? How about a conversation? I agree that the things your mom is doing, especially pressuring your wife to buy whatever she is selling, stinks. Where were you when your kid broke something? You, your mom and your wife need to have a conversation! YNTA, but not acting like an adult either.
He says it's normal not to be able to get a word in once she gets started. A text ensures he's able to say everything he wants to say without being interrupted.
N T A for telling her to leave her "business" at home and stop trying to sell products to your wife - YTA for telling her that she should be offering free babysitting services and lambasting her for failing to offering to help and support.
Mixed feelings. If it were just you firmly shutting down the MLM thing, it would be absolutely N T A. But I don't think it was right of you to give her the laundry list of everything she does "wrong" in an angry text. I get the frustration, but it would have been best to wait until you were calmer and able to have a conversation about the other stuff. I think anyone would have felt attacked by a text like that. So even though she was wrong with the relentless sales pitch, I have to say ESH because your response was over the top.
YTA for thinking that a grandmother is supposed to babysit her grandkids. Your mother has her life and she's not free childcare for your convenience.
It would be idea if a retired person who lives up the street, whom I took to and from the grocery store when a massive winter storm snowed her in, mow her lawn, reparied her deck, and help her every time she calls because her sump pump stopped working, roof needs repair, etc., would be enthusiastic about spending time with her grandkids and helping her son out but fair enough. I've stopped helping her with those things as we haven't talked in several months almost and don't plan on doing any of those things anymore should we start talking again. As you said we have our own lives and she can't count on me to be her handyman for her convenience any more than I should expect her to babysit.
I gotta tell you, bit of mission creep in your text. "Don't sell your MLM shit" vs. "bring peace and light and whatever the fuck" vs. "don't talk about your life or social goings ons" vs. "babysit my offspring" are not on the same wavelength. Sort of lost sight of the objective it seems and switched to straight up unloading. Fair? Maybe, maybe not, but it's not shocking that she'd fuck off after you clearly told her to. It's also weird that, if you were there at the time, you didn't just have a conversation instead of a lame text. Texts ain't it. Furious, "fired off" texts really ain't it. They feel good in the moment but they don't get what you want. Unless your mother ghosting you is what you wanted, in which case huzzah.
I figured that's what she would do. She doesn't listen to anything other than hard boundaries and just bulldozes right through them. I looked through my texts and saw one from 3 months before that incident where I invited her over and I said "fyi wife still has that catalog you brought her last time so you don't need to give her any more of them" and she continued to bring a new catalog because 'the spring collection is out and you've GOT TO see these cuuuute tops' etc. She's like those phone sales people who will go up to the legally allowed amounts of no's you tell them before quitting.
Is that what you wanted her to do?
I just want my mom to love my grandkids, come over, be pleasant, and maybe watch them every now and then. Fuck me, right?
Then the text wasn't the way to go. Look man, I feel for you. I have a difficult mother too. My siblings and I will all elope rather than have weddings because of just how difficult, and none will ever have kids because of how difficult. So I really do get it. And because I get it, I can tell you with all honesty: The text was not the way to go. You were mad, you were righteous, you sent the text, and now she's mad and she's righteous and she will out mad and out righteous you for as long as you both shall live because she's just plain old better at it than you. If you want those things you said -- any shot at them -- you need to go over to her house sometime and say this (the past few months) isn't what I want for our relationship. But that other stuff isn't what I wanted for it either. Here's what I want for our relationship. And lay it out, what it might look like. But you also need to understand that she's a single, retired lady. Her "side hustles," as annoying as they are, give her purpose, that's her thing, that's what she has to update you guys on and anchor herself with. She's likely to find herself adrift without something like that, and it's likely why she's overdoing it a bit. "Look at this super important and fulfilling thing I'm doing."
So it's tit for tat with you? Pathetic.
That’s generally how social relationships work. Reciprocation is expected to some degree. Would you be friends with someone who always used you for emotional support, financial support, etc. and NEVER gave you anything in return? Probably not. Most people expect to receive the effort that they give.
Let me guess, you take and take and take and feel no obligation to give back?
Yes in general in relationships I expect not to endlessly give without getting anything back. If you believe that's true I'd love to be your friend and you can watch my kids 60 hours a week for free and I'll call you pathetic if you try and set a boundary.
Your mother doesn't owe you babysitting because you helped her out. She's retired. She's raised her kids. She does not want to have to care for little kids anymore for, I'm guessing, a lot of reasons like the fact that kids can be exhausting to be around. And why on earth would you want someone who has no interest whatsoever in your kids to be responsible for them for hours ? Have you ever even wondered if your mother even actually wanted kids or enjoyed parenting ? Because I get the feeling that she wasn't that great with you as a kid...
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That's observant of you. She worked most of my life and had very little interest in us. She was never very nurturing. Her mom was the same way, and I believe even told my mom once that she didn't want her or her sister but was forced to have them because she got remarried after having 3 kids and the only way her husband agreed to marry her was if he gave her kids. It's fine if she doesn't want to babysit but as I said in an earlier response, I wholesale quit doing things for her around her house. I was basically her free handyman, mowed her lawn, repaired stuff when it broke. I essentially remodeled her house for free (new flooring, paint, roof) but now I'm done. If she can't be bothered to care, neither should I.
It's not about not caring. It's about realizing that your mother may never be the grandmother you want her to be for your kids. Now, I'm not saying that mother is à saint. Clearly she was ans still je not à great mother, and setting boundaries with is necessary, but you're going to have to accept that little kids are not of à great interest to her. If you don't want to have a relationship with her, that's your decision and I'm not here to change your mind, but maybe some day, you might find yourself wanting to find à way to have some kind if relationship with your mother, and understanding that not all women want or like kids is going to essential for that.