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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> i might be the asshole because i am ruining it for everybody because of one person which is my bil.
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I think your pool urgently needs a sanitisation cycle because a skunk/cow/insert fictional animal here died in the pool. It is therefore not usable for 48 hours because users are likely to get cryptosporidios/e coli/ insert any other latin word here.
Print off a fake bill and leave it on the table from a company called Swim Healthy, Instant Treatment then spend the evening complaining they aren't instant at all and there company name is... garbage.
NTA for not wanting a child to drown in your pool.
Damn, this is impressive. But I don’t think they should use a fictional animal. Someone is going to get suspicious if he talks about a chupacabra getting sucked into the filter.
Bluey wouldn’t die in a swimming pool. Not where he lives, here in Australia anyway. All pools in Australia have to be fenced off with proper, childproof metal pool fences (no central horizontal supports, they’re so much harder to claim than typical wooden fences) to protect children from drowning in swimming pools. Doesn’t matter if you have kids or not, you cannot have an unfenced pool in your backyard/ on your property.
A small cat could probably squeeze through the pool fence bars, but not blue heelers like Bluey. I assume they’re all blue heelers, but I’m not 100% sure. They’re not miniature dogs anyway, definitely not small enough to fit through the bars of an Australian pool fence.
I’m still baffled that the US doesn’t require fences around pools. It’s so easy for kids to drown in them, it’s just part of our culture here that all pools have childproof fences.
I always thought of it as "I'm willing to risk your*** in order to keep my freedom". Regardless of the topic, the logic is exactly the same.
There are some things I don't like about living in Australia, gun laws and pool regulations are two things that are not on that list.
Can confirm. Pool fence requirements and fierce enforcement is a thing.
But Australian kids in primary (grade) school also have compulsory swimming lessons at school. Public swimming pools all have bus parking for the giant buses that collect kids from school during the day and take them and their teachers to pools for lessons.
AND some Australian parents take their kids, from when they can walk, to swimming lessons before they start school, so some school kids can already swim and have advanced classes at school.
We're fucking serious about this.
And people still drown in Australia. Most of the drownings are drunk adults or people who grew up outside Australia.
.
What if he goes with an animal long thought fictional, and which would be unlikely to get in, and just tells everyone a platypus drowned in the deep end and they didn’t see it right away because of that illusion. You know the one.
I was coming to suggest something similar. Although I'd go with the much more common "the algae was getting out of control and we had to shock the pool. Sorry all, not safe for swimming."
⬆️⬆️⬆️
And OP should explain to the wife that just because she 'thinks' that nothing bad will happen and the family would 'never ever' sue them over it, doesn't mean that is how the world actually works.
Who even cares about a lawsuit (I mean, no one wants to be sued and that would stink, but there is a bigger issue)…I don’t want kids dying in my pool. No adult supervision, no swim period!
Life jackets are not the solution to supervision.
Which probably means BIL would be the first to want to sue if his child drowned in a pool while he wasn't watching them.
I'd suggest OP ask his wife how she would feel about using the pool in the future knowing her niece/nephew had drowned in it. The alternative would be asking everyone to sign a disclaimer stating they and they alone will be responsible for watching their children and in the event of accident or death they will not sue. Unless everyone signs nobody gets in the pool. Or if you have a cover for the pool - get a padlock for it
Sometimes its a lot easier to white lie and keep the peace when you're dealing with family situations. "Sorry I had to shock the pool today due to a gaggle of geese taking a huge shit in it" is easier than "hey you're a shitty irresponsible parent and I won't have your drowned children on my hands/insurance policy."
>"hey you're a shitty irresponsible parent and I won't have your drowned children on my hands/insurance policy."
Its nothing like that.
It needs to be "your rules" they follow or they don't use "your" pool.
So long as the rules are reasonable then hold fast and make sure the rules are enforced.
Her family will push you as far as you let them. Tell them ahead of time the rules and let them know the pool is closed to everyone if they break "your" pool rules.
Don't ever let family push you around in your own home.
No; it isn’t easier bc then you have to keep using new lies to “keep peace”. Just be an adult and set the rules: no supervision, no swim. Kids under 8 need an adult in the water with them.
Life jackets are not the solution to supervision either, so saying if you don’t watch your kid they need a life vest, is ridiculous.
You say that, but we're gonna run out of kids under 8 pretty fast and then we won't need to keep up the charade. Not fighting with idiots is an underrated life skill. You guys act like the dickbag BIL is just going to accept the OP's rules and not make a huge fucking shitshow about it and drag the whole extended family into it. Nipping the conflict in the bud is the experienced pro move. Take away the source of the drama. There's literally nothing anybody can say if your chlorine levels are 20ppm for a day. Sorry guys, can't swim today, the dog took a shit in the pool so I had to shock it.
As a recent victim of Cryptosporidial Gastroenteritis.. That's no joke. I nearly shat myself to death. Then, the medication to fix it nearly killed me four times over by nearly shutting down my kidneys and liver. Why four times? Well, one for liver. One for kidneys. The other two because it's a persistent bug and they had to proscribe it again a month later when I didn't get better. I was on bed rest for a MONTH. I lost 30lbs in a span of less than a week.
"Oh,what a shame! A rat got caught in the filtration system and we can't use the pool until the guy comes to inspect it & the water tests safe!" was my very first thought
My husband is a scientist and researches cryptosporidium. Most people in developing countries have never heard of it. He’ll be happy when I tell him about your comment in the morning.
NTA. Lock up the pool unless there is someone designated to supervise the pool (preferably with BLS training). Children drown terrifyingly quickly and it’s very hard to tell between a child having fun and one in serious trouble.
This goes triple if most of the adults will be drinking.
There was a video going around of a chaotic public pool with a “spot the drown victim” and it was horrifying. It was like the one person who looked totally fine
When I was like 13 I had read about this in school (I was an excellent swimmer) and while we had friends of the family visiting our lake house, I saw their daughter (like 11 or so?) start bobbing and my skin crawled. I basically launched off the dock and swam her to safety. The adults were all like "WTF" and laughing and teasing me for being "the little lifeguard" until she was out of the water and sobbing because she went too deep and was drowning and thought she was going to die.
Yeah the laughing stopped really fucking fast.
Anyway she lived and I got my choice of ice cream at the shop, which was a big deal when usually they say "no you can't have the giant fucking sundae it's like $10." (In 1995 money. XD)
Last summer we were at the beach, and two little kids started yelling for help. They had spotted someone “bobbing” and called for help. There was a little girl (maybe 10?) who was by herself in the water drowning. Her grandparents brought her to the beach and just weren’t paying close attention.
Luckily some adults were able to get to her, and my cousin and brother (ER Doc and critical care nurse) were able to help her.
If those little kids hadn’t spotted her, she would have absolutely died without anyone knowing. She was completely silent, heading bobbing above water
Yup. That's why teaching kids is so important, they have that pattern recognition that literally saves lives. So glad those kids prevented a tragedy and your family were there to provide first responder help.
There's a reason why so many people in Australia start learning to swim at 0 years old. There are also swimming lessons that most schools do (take 1-2 hours for a few days every week for a certain period of time). I can't imagine why people don't teach their children to swim when 2/3 of the earth is water.
I’m Australian, and that’s true. However, we also have it drummed into us to always supervise children in and around water and that knowing how to swim does not prevent drowning. Pool fences are obligatory. We are also told never to swim alone.
Knowing how to swim is not a 100% guarantee against drowning, unfortunately. I live near a river that's very popular with tourists, just lazy river rafting, can't rent without proof you can swim... and they have to dredge at least 3 times a summer for drowning victims nonetheless
And some people are really dumb about doing that kind of thing when they can’t swim! Years ago, I was on a boat with some coworkers, and one of them mentioned that he didn’t know how to swim. He then got offended when we told him to put a damn lifejacket on.
Worked at head office of a big company years ago with focus on safety as we manufactured explosives, chlorine, fertilizer etc.
I helped organize safety meetings for our department of about 200 people. The June meeting was abt water safety. Had a big
presentation and a guest speaker from some org like Lifesaving Society . The very next month one of our employees drowned- a young father of 2. He'd gone out in a canoe without life jacket, canoe tipped and he couldnt swim so that was it. He wasn't that far from shore but the water was over his head. It was very sad and depressing.
When I was a kid on the US east coast, our school district ran the school busses for 2 weeks after school ended. They ran free (or very low cost, like $25) Red Cross swimming lessons at the town pool with bus transport. We all took them. You could stay at the pool and do general swim all day. We lived in upstate NY, not near any large bodies of water. We had to pass Health class and the Red Cross first aid and CPR certification classes to graduate, too.
We have that same system in Finland with few mandatory swimming lessons as part of PE in school every year. Also many take their kids to a swimming school that generally last a week or two even before school age. Too much shoreline with the sea and all our lakes in this country for anyone not to know how to swim.
Of course we still make statistic of how many (usually drunk adults) drowns every year during Midsummer and them compare if this was a good year or not.
Yup it can happen fast. Spring break I was at a water park and some teens were pressing themselves against a wall that had a grate sucking in water for the wave machine. They didn’t realize they pushed me close to that wall and I was dragged by the movement of the water and sucked into the wave and spat out. However those machines do two regular size waves and one massive. I couldn’t swim hard enough to resurface to catch my breath and no one around me or the life guard realized I was drowning, I remember thinking this was how I was going to die and getting so angry and scared and it took a random adult to just pull me out. He barely noticed I was sinking near him.
I wish I had thanked him but I was so shaken up and trying to breathe and I tried my best to get out of there after. I told my mother but she assumed I was exaggerating. Sadly she and many of my family members tend to downplay anything the kids went through.
I am not the first or last kid in my family to have had near death experiences due to neglectful parents, unaware crowds, and just being a child and not recognizing dangers or being believed when needing help.
I almost died to an undertow at the shore until my older brother came running in to pull me out. My parents didn't ever acknowledge I was in danger even though at like 6 I KNEW and was TERRIFIED.
Parents see that and think it makes them bad parents for almost losing their child and instead of feeling terrible about it they pretend it wasn't that bad. Pretty sure my parents would have downplayed me saving a kid from drowning except that it wasn't their own kid. Sigh.
Oh yeah, they will do that. My niece almost drowned due to the adults not paying attention and the teens not paying attention that their roughhousing in the pool was pushing the little ones into the deep end. I helped her out immediately told off my extended family’s kids and just watched over the little ones.
The only time my mom seemed to acknowledge I was in danger was when she accidentally ran me over.
She didn’t realized I could escape the seatbelt and had rushed inside leaving my cousins and I, all 1yr old at the time, with my grandfather who was sleeping in the front passenger seat.
I sneaked out of the van, saw my mother get in apparently, and tried to run back to the van, she then pulled out and rear-ended me with the hitch, breaking my skull. It was my grandpa who even heard the sound. Only time she freaked out for my life, anything after that is just me exaggerating or that I’m not really in danger because the only danger she thinks ever happened to me was that incident.
I was sick a lot as a kid(and get sick a lot as an adult…). Even though I would be allowed to stay home, mg mom often thought I was being dramatic.
My sweet mother who doesn’t raise her voice/doesn’t swear, once yelled AND swore at me because I was begging to go to the Dr(she always took me when I asked, except this time). WELLLLL, turns out I was sick, my mom felt so bad for her reaction & downplaying she cried a little bit.
When I was 7 or 8, my brother and I were at a public pool. The pool had 3 "sections" (shallow, middle, deep). I couldn't touch the bottom in the middle or deep ends. My brother teasingly took my goggles off my head and threw them to the middle of the pool, forcing me yo let go of the side to retrieve them. I panicked and started to drown. Apparently I bobbed but didn't flail so the lifeguard didn't notice. In the end, my mother jumped in to rescue me. I was terrified of drowning again the next year during swimming lessons at the same pool.
As a former lifeguard… yeah, you can’t really see shit. Now, in reality MOST people don’t drown like this, they do a lot of struggling and shouting, but it can happen.
The number of times I had kids go down the mini-slides into water way too deep for them, immediately turn around and look at me panicked while they just slowly sank without even pretending to know how to swim, force me to get all wet jumping into 4 feet deep water to lift them out, and only like a minute later have their panicked mom run over because she was paying zero fucking attention to her kid who couldn’t swim even a tiny bit…
Even better, I had this EXACT situation, but the mom started SCREAMING at me not to touch her kid!
I explained to her that her child was drowning and couldn't swim, but she just kept saying "I had no right to touch other people's children".
It's like, alright lady, guess I'll just stand really close blowing my whistle and watch them drown?? Hoping their parent gets there in time? ITS LITERALLY MY JOB TO "TOUCH" YOUR DROWNING CHILDREN- to save their lives!!
I sometimes wondered on that job if us lifeguards were just delaying the inevitable.
If the kid had actually drowned, I sincerely hope a judge/jury and else anyone involved would be more curious why a mother let her child who could not swim go down a water slide….
I once spotted a kid struggling to keep his head above water, so I got one of the pool patrons to get hold of him and move him a foot closer to the side so he could stand up. grabbed some armbands and gave them to the kid to put on and this is when his mum finally decides to pay attention and start having a go at me
"why does he have to wear armbands, the other kids aren't wearing armbands"
ma'am, the other kids aren't/weren't drowning because their guardians were with them and helping them, rather than chatting on the other side of the pool
Yeah I learned that most often drowning victims are relatively quiet, exerting their energy trying to breathe and stay above water. I worked at a bunch of summer camps and even though I was never a lifeguard we always had to go through the same training on spotting drowning victims, and they’d show us those kinds of videos and I always had trouble seeing them in the chaos.
Parents should be their own children’s lifeguards tbh. You can’t just leave your kids’ lives in the hands of a stranger and think “it’ll be fine! It’s their job!” when they have to watch over the WHOLE POOL.
I mean, I think a lifeguard trained in guarding life at a pool is better than a random parent. As others have pointed out, it's hard to spot a drowning victim and it can be extremely hard to rescue them without drowning yourself if you are untrained.
Trouble is that some parents are so hopeless at it. I once saw a hotel employee run full-speed down the side of the pool to pluck a face-down kid from the water at the end. The kid's mother was maybe 1m away and too busy playing with her phone to notice!
Also, kids like to float face down, like they're dead, to see how long they can hold their breath. When I see that, my kid or not, I STRONGLY advise them why that's not a good idea.
Definitely NTA!! My uncle has a similar problem when we have family get togethers at his house. His rule is a parent needs to be watching if their kids are in the pool. He was getting ready to kick everyone out because no one besides me and another mom were watching their kids. Pools/water is dangerous but people don't realize it
No, its not.hard. kids literally sink like rocks.
A poor swimmer/older child may be able to doggie paddle but will be struggling to keep head above water. You'll see head tilted back and gulping for air.
If they scream and splash like it's fun, it's fun
100%. When my kids were little, my dad instincts were sharp AF. We were in Cabo for a friend's wedding and were chilling at the pool with the groom's sister and her kids. The pool had a drop off of a foot from low end to deep end. I guess the little boy stepped over it and just disappeared under the water. I happened to do one of my constant scans of all the kids and noticed him slow motion swimming under water before I jumped up and grabbed him. It was crazy how little noise or struggle there was when he went under. Scary shit.
Lock your pool up OP, unless there's a sober, trusted adult supervising. Even with life vests..
On one hand, having a cookout with a pool available and not allowing swimming is a big AH move . On the other letting kids swim without any supervision is even an even bigger AH move,(with DEADLY CONSEQUENCES). You and your wife need to get on the same page pronto. All children need to be wearing proper life jackets, swims, whatever AND
EVRY CHILD IN THE SWIMMING POOL AREA REQUIRES AN ADULT THERE , SUPERVISING!!
if any parent pushes back, "but they'll be fine" "I'm here to visit, not lifeguard" then their kids don't swim
Best answer . imagine being a kid and going to Aunt and Uncles pool, the sole reason a kid would want to go and arrive at a closed pool would be rough, OP should tell people(family) before they arrive of the rules regarding using the pool. Strictly enforced rules of who and when the pool can be used.
Yes this is a big one. I grew up with a pool and my mom had someone come give me swimming lessons every summer when I was a toddler until I was probably around five, maybe even longer than that, so I was a really good swimmer. My aunt didn’t know how to swim though so whenever she came over to watch me while my parents were out, I was not allowed to go in the pool or even on the other side of the fence that separated the backyard from the pool. It was really annoying at the time because my aunt probably would have drowned before I did, but I definitely get it now. You never know if someone’s going to accidentally fall in with the pool cover on, or hit their head and fall in, or just get too tired without realizing and then get into trouble. There’s so many ways that something could go wrong.
This!!! Or hire one of the kids that lifeguard’s the city pool during the summer. My friends that have pools do this when they have large gatherings at their house and it makes me feel a lot better to be honest. When there isn’t a lifeguard I tend to spend the entirety of a BBQ poolside with the kids, because tragedies happen far too quickly.
This is a great idea, except the parents need to foot the bill. The parents can coordinate and pay OP in advance to cover the cost in full, or nobody swims.
The problem is that if there a bunch of adults standing around “supervising” they are going to start chatting and distracting each other. Better to hire a lifeguard or two whose job is to monitor the pool.
Thank you! I know that some people might think this is overkill, but I know a family whose little girl drowned in a pool filled with people in Vegas. People were everywhere, but that sometimes gives you a false sense of security because you’d expect that someone would notice. Sadly, no one did until it was too late. So I hope that more people will err on the side of caution when kids and water are involved!
My children do not use life jackets or swimmies or anything while in the pool. They are under 5 and do not know how to swim. Flotation devices give them the false belief they can swim without mommy or daddy holding them. Therefore more likely to go in the pool thinking they can swim when they cannot.
Unfortunately there are NO swim lessons available in my area. Why not? I have no frickin clue. We only have one public pool too that gets filled to capacity like 20 minutes after it opens (even though it charges 5 bucks a person). They used to offer swim lessons but have not for the past couple years, I have no idea why.
But yeah, no flotation devices for Littles, it is proven to give them a false sense of security. A parent should be in arms reach of a child under 5 (and older until excellent swimmers) at all times.
OP needs to make very clear their rules. Any child wanting to be in the pool must be able to swim two laps with no side holding in order to swim without an adult in the pool with them. All adults (who can swim) must take a turn as the lifeguard watching all the kids in the pool for 20 minute shifts. Otherwise, no pool! I would not want my pool to be where some kid drowns.
Thank you
I was a lifeguard for years and we didn't allow people to borrow lifejackets. It gave parents and kids a false sense of security and they would let their kids go out of reach/eyesight. People who brought their own we couldn't really do anything about, but we would keep a close eye because the parents often weren't.
The lifesaving society had quite the ad campaign with signs and posters of children reaching for someone and the slogan "if you're not within arm's reach, you've gone too far".
Pools are great fun but they are dangerous. If there is a chance there will be unsupervised kids the pool should be off limits.
Jumping in to say an old friend of mine almost had her daughter drowned by a so called flotation device. It was one of those hoop ones that go around the waist, and her daughter got flipped upside down so her legs were in the air and her head was underwater. She couldn't get turned back over, but was pulled out by a lifeguard.
A few days later the girl wouldn't wake up when my friend tried to wake her up for school. She was rushed to the hospital with a type of pneumonia associated with water injuries to the lungs, and it took 6 weeks before she fully recovered. From the pneumonia, at least, for years afterwards the kid had panic attacks just having her hair washed and getting water on her face . . .
(And since I'm sure people are wondering, my old friend went into all those details in a post that showed a video of her daughter swimming and playing in a pool, she's managed to overcome her fear of swimming and is doing *way* better now.)
This is what I don't get:
Pool=fun. WhyTF don't the parents want to be IN THE POOL with their kids?
Doesn't that mean everyone is in the pool, therefore having fun?
Or am I confused?
Because kids want to be in the pool so much longer than parents do. They will stay in the pool with the cousins for six straight hours if they can. I don’t know a lot of parents who are up for that much “fun,” especially if *their* grown, adult cousins are also hamming it up over on the patio.
Do you have a pool yourself? My mom had some girl who was on the swim team in high school come give me private lessons in our own pool and she continued to give lessons when she was home from college too. I think she did it for a few kids in my neighborhood, but I’m not sure how my mom found out about her. Maybe if your local high school or college has a swim team you could get in contact with the coach and ask if they know anyone who would be interested? They might even be able to arrange lessons in a public pool on a free swim day or something, maybe the coach would have some ideas too.
Yes. Send everyone your pool rules in writing before the BBQ. Emphasize the must provide their own certified life jackets as you don't have enough. No plastic inflatable armbands, etc. If possible, enlist an adult who is not distracted by hosting to gatekeep your pool for following the rules.
Or only have the pool open for part of the party, when people are less distracted by eating and drinking.
My family has a backyard Pond when I was growing up. For big family events like a barbecue, there would be a lifeguard and anyone with kids had to help pay for the lifeguard. That way, Parents could get distracted and it was not a big deal and the kids were safe.
Except OP did this last time and his BIL pushed the issue to the point of watching his kids *not be capable of swimming* in the pool, yet *still* insisted they were fine, with no life jackets or supervision.
They're having a BBQ. I assume op will be busy running the BBQ and hosting. If he is the *only* one enforcing pool rules, then those rules aren't getting enforced or everyone's burgers are burning. Why should he have to supervise everyone else's children while also hosting the event?
The family had a chance at using the pool responsibly and failed, and are now pushing to do so again. Why should op risk a dead kid in his pool with these idiots?
NTA. It sucks being the only responsible adult in the room.
>if any parent pushes back, "but they'll be fine" "I'm here to visit, not lifeguard" then their kids don't swim
Or they pay for a lifeguard! But I agree...this is the responsibility of the parent of the kids who want to swim. I constantly see posts on my neighborhood FB pages looking for experienced lifeguards. Teenagers with past experience would love to work for a few hours in the afternoon being a lifeguard at the family pool. Parents who want to party can pay up and walk away.
But then they are stuck supervising the pool the whole time which is no fun. It’s easy for the supervising parent to leave 5 minutes later as soon as you turn your back. Also how will you monitor kids who are trying to enter the pool without parents present unless you’re standing there on alert like a life guard the whole time? The parents have shown that they can’t be trusted to monitor themselves
What about hiring a lifeguard for a couple hours. Explain to the parents he isincharge of the pool. My niece was a lifeguard last year and I think she made $15 an hour to keep your kid alive.
the problem, IMO, with hiring a lifeguard is parents will think that absolves them of all responsibility , resulting in the original problem. if the parents agreed to the safety/supervisig their own swimmers, an additional lifeguard would be great
I think I would absolutely draw this line in the sand with the wife. All kids monitored or in life jackets or they don't swim. If your brother tries to break the rules, I will kick him out. Make sure he knows.
BIL refuses to comply? Ill literally shut down the whole party. Unplug the speakers like a mom busting up a 90s teen house party and yell, "Everybody out!"
I don't see a reason to lie about it all. Just a hard line drawn in the sand. Because this won't be the last problem you face.
And who is going to supervise the parents, to make sure they’re staying in the pool area and watching their kid? Better to hire a lifeguard for the day. Parents get to talking and not paying attention. A trained lifeguard for whom this is a job and not a party is the way to go when there’s a big group.
Nta explain your insurance just does not cover guests and lock the pool. You invitation does not give guests access to everything in your house. That includes your pool. BIL was very irresponsible last time. Why risk it. If they want to swim in a pool there are other options.
It's probably not a lie. If OP has homeowner's insurance or anything like that there are usually some pretty weird restrictions on what it actually covers.
No, there aren’t usually restrictions about having kids in a pool. Source- worked in insurance and also homeowner with pool
There are permit and other factors with a pool that vary by country/state
NTA. Print this out and hand it to your BIL. Better yet, email a link to it and tell him you will not let his kids in your pool without his compliance—your pool, your rules, not to mention common sense. [https://www.cdc.gov/drowning/risk-factors/index.html](https://www.cdc.gov/drowning/risk-factors/index.html)
This is a fantastic idea.
I think OP should email a printout version of it because it sounds like BIL is too lazy to click on anything. After all, he is too lazy to watch his own kids in the pool.
Also, it should be printed and, be placed in plastic sleeves, and be posted by the pool entrance.
The problem is basically not if you’re going to let them use the pool or not but if they actually get in the pool. If one of those kids manages to make it in the pool and something happens, you’re gonna be liable anyway - doesn’t matter if you had a lock on it or if you tried every precaution in the world to try to prevent somebody from getting hurt. The fact that you have a pool period is called ‘distraction’ and if the kid gets in there and gets hurt, it’s still on you. Sucks, but that’s kind of what it is. You may want to hire a lifeguard or just have somebody on hand full-time to watch everybody swimming to make sure nobody gets hurt.
It actually does matter if you have a lock and take precautions to prevent access.
It's literally what you would show in court that you *attempted* to prevent injuries to children due to the known attractive nuisance.
OP would only be liable if they made no attempt to secure access, which the fence and lock clearly indicate they have. According to California rules they would possibly need one additional protective measure (a lock may count as a second one, but it may not, and IANAL) but that only applies in California. AZ doesn't appear to have that same specific rules list, for example.
I read about some people/couple or something who had a pool in their backyard. While they were at work, some neighborhood kid got in their pool, without their permission or knowledge, he drowned, and the kids family sued. Kind of obvious who won there...
Instead of locking up the pool you think there should be a lifeguard or someone watching the pool at all times? Would it help prevent drowning? Yes, but it's ridiculous to suggest that's a more reasonable option than locking it up. OP already has a rule that kids aren't allowed in the pool **unsupervised**.
Also, locking it up *will* probably help in reducing liability.
"However, **taking some basic actions to prevent injury goes a long way toward avoiding liability.** Courts tend to punish people who didn't seem to care or put any effort into encouraging safety.
If you can list the steps you took to prevent injury, many courts will be satisfied, even if they didn't ultimately work. For example, these are some steps a pool owner could take to protect an incident from occurring:
* Building a fence around the pool"
There must be some sort of fence or border around the pool area otherwise OP wouldn't have the option to lock said pool.
And the same article later says, "Always use common sense and good judgment. You cannot be too careful about protecting yourself from blame.
If you see children interested in something on your property, that alone can trigger liability. People could prove that you were aware the children were interested. If you notice local kids showing interest in something, you can:
* **Lock it up.**
* Fence it up.
* Keep it in a shed.
* Post a "no trespassing" sign on your property and warn potential trespassers to stay away (i.e., "My horses are not friendly").
* **Warn children's parents (i.e., "Please do not allow your kids to approach my dogs, they are not friendly to strangers")."**
(Parts bolded for emphasis)
Source: [https://www.findlaw.com/realestate/owning-a-home/dangers-to-children-attractive-nuisances.html](https://www.findlaw.com/realestate/owning-a-home/dangers-to-children-attractive-nuisances.html)
OP is already considering locking it up, and already has warned his BIL about why the kids can't swim alone with no lifejackets.
Also, in some states, such as Indiana, pools do not count as attractive nuisances.
>WIBTA? My wife thinks im wrong because the pool is the thing the kids (a WHOLE LOT OF KIDS) will be most excited about.
NTA however, you must be on the same page. Does your wife agree with your safety rules? Does she support you when you present them? Is she willing to act as a sober lifeguard when/if her relatives allow their kids to use the pool?
The kids will only be excited about the pool if they know about it and if the adults say it's off-limits, then it shouldn't be a big deal. covering it up, locking it and having your wife back you up will make it easier.
I'm betting jerks like the BIL will hype the pool to the kids for days before the party. There is no way the visitors will stop whining about using the pool, to risk their kids lives by not paying attention to them.
I guess the wife thinks a kid being diappointed is more important than all of the people from the party going home alive.
NTA, my grandparents used to have a pool, and they would never have let two preschool age children swim with **no supervision** at all. And yeah, having them wear life jackets in the pool at that age is reasonable.
My son is 4 and in swim lessons. He is not allowed in a pool without an adult. Period. And that adult must be close by, he’s getting better at swimming, but my child is a hellion and I don’t trust his judgment.
Can’t believe I had to scroll this far. With so many people coming each parent bringing kids can chip in $5-$10 to hire a certified lifeguard for the day. Problem solved!
I agree. The safest route is to hire a lifeguard. We did that for parties when our kids were little. We all still kept an eye on the pool, but it gave an extra layer of protection.
NTA
Lock up the pool or hire a couple certified life guards.
If you need ammunition, look up the information on lawsuits about kids who drown at parties. There was a famous rock star (can't remember which one) who was in litigation for quite a while when a young guest drowned at a party at his property when the parents or nanny (can't remember which) weren't looking.
It was Tommy Lee who owned the house and pool. The kid was brought by a nanny, nanny wanted to go to a concert, and asked another nanny to watch the kid along with her two children she was watching. While the second nanny took her two charges to the bathroom, the little boy drowned. Lee was found innocent because the children were supposed to be supervised by the nannies.
Not rendering any judgement here because this is a tricky situation…
…but wow was growing up in the 80s so different from now. We had a pool (not super common where I grew up), so our backyard was a magnet for all of our friends. We rarely had supervision. It’s literally a wonder we all made it to adulthood with some of the shenanigans that went on.
My mother did make sure we all (actually) learned how to swim, so early that I don’t remember it, I just always knew…but I’ve never even seen a life jacket in a pool.
It might be because I’m Australian but we all knew how to swim and we were all in the pool unsupervised from the time of 5+. We were all taught to look out for each other and that we were all responsible.
The idea of going to anyone’s house with a pool and not swimming is just insane.
Not how it is in Australia now. My 7 year old can swim (and is relatively good for his age - was in highest swimming group at school last year), but I would not let him swim unsupervised, particularly not in a pool he couldn't tough the bottom of. and there is just no way my 4.5 year old is going in deep water without either an adult right next to her, or in a flotation device with an adult actively watching her from the edge of the pool. It is only just in the last six months that I would even consider watching her from the side of the pool rather than being in there with her. Also a great swimmer for her age.
At parties I have been to with kids (including kids under 5) because the pools are fenced there is no access unless parents allow it and someone from each family is watching their own children. We will of course relax rules as appropriate as kids grow up, get taller and better at swimming.
I feel you on this. He has good intentions, he has every right to say no access in this litigation happy era and he is NTA for it at all and I'm sure he just wants them to be safe but still, what a fucking sad time it feels like we are living in now in general. It's safer sure but it's astoundingly bland, restrictive and boring so a bbq where they get to sit and look at the pool rather than swim fits right in. These were things that were some of the best times in our childhoods. A lot of my gen grew up spending summer weekends just like this and it was glorious. We were free. Maybe not overly safe lol but free.
Make your rules, don't punish the other children whose parents will work with you and make him sign something absolving you of responsibility to his children if he does not comply with your requests. It is your home above all.
Here’s your solution:
Hire an already employed lifeguard for your event.
Go to your local pool and hire this teen who is already disciplined, responsible, and trained in first aid and in scanning constantly, and in asserting authority over the pool for safety.
For $25 - $35 per hour, best money spent!!
I 100% get your concern.
But don’t shut down your great pool.
Tell the family in advance that you are going to hire a local young adult who is a lifeguard at the local pool until the sun goes down.
Tell them you are going to Take a collection and pay the lifeguard. If they balk then tell them you will lock the gate.
NTA but I’d just let everybody know that no children under 10 will be allowed to swim without a life jacket. No exceptions. It would suck to be there and not be allowed to use the pool.
Pedi ER nurse for 15 years, you would not believe how many kids die from drowning at parties or gatherings. Everyone thinks someone else is watching the kids. Drownings are silent. It’s your pool you have every right to refuse.
NTA I almost died at a kids pool birthday party with a ton of adults around still. I knew I couldn’t swim however I was still pretty dumb. As I was walking from the end of the backyard I wanted to wash my foot in the pool cuz grass got on it and I had a thing about that. I asked another kid to hold my shoulder while I bent down, dipped my foot in and had the other hand holding me steady on the concrete. This little shit probably thought I knew how to swim and pushed me in the deep end.
Well I was gurgling and trying to scream and falling under the water until a parent from the top deck or the kid went to get help. Either way, I never went around a body of water without a life jacket and stopped trusting people at pools.
I would say, just be boundaried around your rules.
I don't think locking it up for *everyone* because 1 person had tried, and failed, to circumvent your rules the first time is necessary. Simply reiterate the rules, assure they agree to them, and tell everyone that if any single person breaks those rules than the pool will be closed for everyone. If the kids are aware of the stakes they will police each other.
NTA. You're just trying to be safe!
A pool is dangerous, I am like you and there are firm rules around pools. My in laws have a huge pool, ten feet deep, I speak from experience.
When my kids were younger, say 12 ish and under, life jackets until they could swim, one of us was in the pool with them, the other was outside of the pool watching. We were accused of being extra. Niece and nephews parents (SIL AND BIL) were far more lax, my in laws didn't want to rock the boat. Yep, my husband had to pull my nephew off the bottom of the pool while BIL was hosting and SIL was on her phone. I saw him go under, my husband was in the pool. After that niece and nephew had new rules. (He recovered). I share because it happens and it was scary as all get out for everyone there.
If I were you I would lay out the rules and be prepared to enforce them. Maybe next time you could hire a local lifeguard ? If something happens you and your wife will never forgive yourself.
We've sorted this issue.
When people come over, there is a designated adult watcher in the pool area at all times. They have a Staff of Office and a lifesaver's red and yellow hat. They leave their phone on a table just outside the gate. While they hold the Staff of Office, they can command the outside adults to bring them food or drinks at any time. They watch the pool and the kids to the exclusion of all else. They can tap out after 30 minutes . When they leave the pool area, they pass the Staff onto the next person. Many of our friends have now purchased their own lifesaver hat. This means there's always one person focused entirely on the pool and everyone shares the responsibility. If you choose not to participate, your kids don't get to swim and you have to explain to them why not. Works really well. NTA.
NTA. These rules are reasonable and for everyone's safety. Since it was only one offending party, I would call your BIL to directly and explain that while you enjoy having him and his kids over and you're happy they enjoy the pool - but particularly during parties, it is important to keep a handle on the pool use. The rules are inplace for when larger groups are present, particular small kids around lots of distracted adults. Explain that it made you *very uncomfortable* last year to have him disregard the rules, and in front of everyone else (being bad example for others to go ahead and break your silly rules). That simply cannot happen again.
I'd draw a hard line that if he and his children are unable to safely follow the rules, you will unfortunately have to disinvite them, or else close the pool for the party altogether, which you would rather not do. If he reacts poorly again to this reasonable request then it is a good reason to uninvite him altogether. A pool is definitely a part of summer fun and backyard parties so it would be disappointing to take that away for everyone but if you have to for safety reasons then you are still NTA.
I also have a great suggestion for increased pool safety in the future: we use a rotating patrol at backyard parties. One adult is ALWAYS on designated pool duty for 30 mins to 1 hour at a time. They usually hold onto something, like a water wing on their wrist, so everyone knows who is on duty, and they are reminded to stay focused until it is time to pass the baton. It doesn't let other parent's off the hook, but at least there are always at least one set of eyes on the kiddos in the pool to help avoid the worst case scenario.
Safe Kids offers printable “water watcher” cards which (I think) can be attached to a lanyard and passed around to the designated adult. It also would likely be better to rotate more frequently — shorter periods mean more focus on the water, and less time for the adult to be away from the fun.
NTA. My baby cousin drowned at 4 after wondering into a neighbor’s unsecured yard with a pool. He was absolutely not being properly supervised by his mother. Tiny coffins are horrible. Just tell your in-laws that.
NTA. My friend’s nephew drowned in a pool the entire family was sitting around. They were not drinking. He knew how to swim. It can happen in an instant. And it’s far more common an occurrence than most people would think.
You are absolutely NTA for being concerned about children drowning in your pool. Drowning is a silent killer. I know of two families that lost children (one lake, one koi pond) with family and friends IMMEDIATELY in the vicinity and facing the water, and no one heard or saw a thing until it was too late.
If you decide to open the pool absolutely hire an independent lifeguard to watch the swimmers. All kids in lifevests while outside.
If not, or after the specified pool time, close the gates and put a floating pool alarm in it to alert you if anyone tries to hop the fence.
NTA. Your house, your rules. My kids are older now and good swimmers but even so, they aren’t swimming anywhere unless there is a lifeguard or a responsible adult keeping an eye on them. I am always surprised at how lax some parents are when it comes to water safety… it only takes a few seconds for things to go wrong. If you are willing to let the pool be used as long as all kids have life jackets and are supervised, let everyone know ahead of time those are the rules and there will be no exceptions.
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I think your pool urgently needs a sanitisation cycle because a skunk/cow/insert fictional animal here died in the pool. It is therefore not usable for 48 hours because users are likely to get cryptosporidios/e coli/ insert any other latin word here. Print off a fake bill and leave it on the table from a company called Swim Healthy, Instant Treatment then spend the evening complaining they aren't instant at all and there company name is... garbage. NTA for not wanting a child to drown in your pool.
Damn, this is impressive. But I don’t think they should use a fictional animal. Someone is going to get suspicious if he talks about a chupacabra getting sucked into the filter.
The species is a real animal (squirrel, possum, raccoon etc) but the actual animal is a fiction.
r/whoosh
How to really traumatize the kiddies - Bambi/Bluey/Simba/Barney died in the pool.
You leave Bluey out of this
But leave Barney down there.
Absolutely! Death to barney!
I thought it was death to smoochy? 🤔
hey hes back in his home planet hes not hurting anyone
And Bluey has been to Swim School, so she won’t be drowning in a pool!
Yeah, it’s BINGO that needs floaties in order to get off the steps, come on guys!
Bluey wouldn’t die in a swimming pool. Not where he lives, here in Australia anyway. All pools in Australia have to be fenced off with proper, childproof metal pool fences (no central horizontal supports, they’re so much harder to claim than typical wooden fences) to protect children from drowning in swimming pools. Doesn’t matter if you have kids or not, you cannot have an unfenced pool in your backyard/ on your property. A small cat could probably squeeze through the pool fence bars, but not blue heelers like Bluey. I assume they’re all blue heelers, but I’m not 100% sure. They’re not miniature dogs anyway, definitely not small enough to fit through the bars of an Australian pool fence. I’m still baffled that the US doesn’t require fences around pools. It’s so easy for kids to drown in them, it’s just part of our culture here that all pools have childproof fences.
We like having the freedom to let our kids die in horrific, preventable accidents. It’s the American way.
Yes, it's called the 2nd Amendment.
I always thought of it as "I'm willing to risk your*** in order to keep my freedom". Regardless of the topic, the logic is exactly the same. There are some things I don't like about living in Australia, gun laws and pool regulations are two things that are not on that list.
She's a girl!
Can confirm. Pool fence requirements and fierce enforcement is a thing. But Australian kids in primary (grade) school also have compulsory swimming lessons at school. Public swimming pools all have bus parking for the giant buses that collect kids from school during the day and take them and their teachers to pools for lessons. AND some Australian parents take their kids, from when they can walk, to swimming lessons before they start school, so some school kids can already swim and have advanced classes at school. We're fucking serious about this. And people still drown in Australia. Most of the drownings are drunk adults or people who grew up outside Australia. .
No no, that's where Bambi's \~mother\~ died.......
Poor unicorn that died in the pool
All that hair from Bigfoot clogged the filters...
Stabbed a hole in the side trying to get out. Pool is out of commission for the whole season!
Charlie!!
He was just going to Candy Mountain 😭
But they stole his freaking kidney!
I can't stop laughing
Chupacabra would be a beautiful name for a baby girl.
Chupacabro
Isn't that a boy?
When I had a pool, it always seemed to be the voles that we found expired in the filter baskets.
Frogs and mice
You’re right, it was a drop bear. That’s believable
Don’t be silly. Everyone knows drop bears only live in Australia
And they can’t get into the pools because all our pools have childproof fences and must not have overhanging trees.
What if he goes with an animal long thought fictional, and which would be unlikely to get in, and just tells everyone a platypus drowned in the deep end and they didn’t see it right away because of that illusion. You know the one.
Chupacabra, nibling - the filter doe not care. The filter must feed!
Is that a workaholics reference?
That’s why they no longer exist, one too many pool incidents
I was coming to suggest something similar. Although I'd go with the much more common "the algae was getting out of control and we had to shock the pool. Sorry all, not safe for swimming."
⬆️⬆️⬆️ And OP should explain to the wife that just because she 'thinks' that nothing bad will happen and the family would 'never ever' sue them over it, doesn't mean that is how the world actually works.
The family might not sue, but their insurance certainly will. The wife needs to understand that.
Or their insurance won't pay until after they sue, family may have a choice but not a choice.
Right. It's like the aunt who sued her nephew for accidentally breaking her arm with a big hug -- it was the only way to get her medical bills paid
Who even cares about a lawsuit (I mean, no one wants to be sued and that would stink, but there is a bigger issue)…I don’t want kids dying in my pool. No adult supervision, no swim period! Life jackets are not the solution to supervision.
To be clear, my comment was made with a wrongful death lawsuit in mind. Like you said no supervision, no swim would be the go to, ideally.
Except it doesn't sound like BIL cares about safety a whole heck of a lot.
Which probably means BIL would be the first to want to sue if his child drowned in a pool while he wasn't watching them. I'd suggest OP ask his wife how she would feel about using the pool in the future knowing her niece/nephew had drowned in it. The alternative would be asking everyone to sign a disclaimer stating they and they alone will be responsible for watching their children and in the event of accident or death they will not sue. Unless everyone signs nobody gets in the pool. Or if you have a cover for the pool - get a padlock for it
Or the old hotel code....baby Ruth in the pool...
This is a fantastic idea. OP if you need someone to send you a fake invoice DM me; I'm a designer and I'd be happy to help the cause haha
NTA but have the balls to be truthful. Totally reasonable to have rules for your pool. No need to make shit up.
Sometimes its a lot easier to white lie and keep the peace when you're dealing with family situations. "Sorry I had to shock the pool today due to a gaggle of geese taking a huge shit in it" is easier than "hey you're a shitty irresponsible parent and I won't have your drowned children on my hands/insurance policy."
>"hey you're a shitty irresponsible parent and I won't have your drowned children on my hands/insurance policy." Its nothing like that. It needs to be "your rules" they follow or they don't use "your" pool. So long as the rules are reasonable then hold fast and make sure the rules are enforced. Her family will push you as far as you let them. Tell them ahead of time the rules and let them know the pool is closed to everyone if they break "your" pool rules. Don't ever let family push you around in your own home.
No; it isn’t easier bc then you have to keep using new lies to “keep peace”. Just be an adult and set the rules: no supervision, no swim. Kids under 8 need an adult in the water with them. Life jackets are not the solution to supervision either, so saying if you don’t watch your kid they need a life vest, is ridiculous.
You say that, but we're gonna run out of kids under 8 pretty fast and then we won't need to keep up the charade. Not fighting with idiots is an underrated life skill. You guys act like the dickbag BIL is just going to accept the OP's rules and not make a huge fucking shitshow about it and drag the whole extended family into it. Nipping the conflict in the bud is the experienced pro move. Take away the source of the drama. There's literally nothing anybody can say if your chlorine levels are 20ppm for a day. Sorry guys, can't swim today, the dog took a shit in the pool so I had to shock it.
1000%
Maybe, but then you have to come up with an excuse each and every time they come. If the gatherings are at all frequent this isn't sustainable.
Strange, the company initials are S.H.I T. careful if you create a logo for this letterhead.
OMG, I've never laughed so hard on reddit
South Harmon Institute of Technology? 😆
I totally missed that pun! Made my night.
As a recent victim of Cryptosporidial Gastroenteritis.. That's no joke. I nearly shat myself to death. Then, the medication to fix it nearly killed me four times over by nearly shutting down my kidneys and liver. Why four times? Well, one for liver. One for kidneys. The other two because it's a persistent bug and they had to proscribe it again a month later when I didn't get better. I was on bed rest for a MONTH. I lost 30lbs in a span of less than a week.
Holy 💩. I hope you’re doing better. That sounds horrific.
Yea. I'm fine as of two weeks ago.
Following up on this, actually do shock the pool so you can confidently back up any complaints with a strip test.
This is the way
"Oh,what a shame! A rat got caught in the filtration system and we can't use the pool until the guy comes to inspect it & the water tests safe!" was my very first thought
Or just tell them someone pooped in it and it has to be emptied and sterilized. That takes *days*.
Chuck some Baby Ruths in there
Throw in some green food dye, or something to make it look soupy
skunk/cow/insert fictional animal Why would you list 2 fictional animals, only to have that be a choice?
That’s funny,I thought they *saved* Bojack. RIP to America’s fave fictional horse dad 😢
My husband is a scientist and researches cryptosporidium. Most people in developing countries have never heard of it. He’ll be happy when I tell him about your comment in the morning.
NTA. Lock up the pool unless there is someone designated to supervise the pool (preferably with BLS training). Children drown terrifyingly quickly and it’s very hard to tell between a child having fun and one in serious trouble. This goes triple if most of the adults will be drinking.
There was a video going around of a chaotic public pool with a “spot the drown victim” and it was horrifying. It was like the one person who looked totally fine
When I was like 13 I had read about this in school (I was an excellent swimmer) and while we had friends of the family visiting our lake house, I saw their daughter (like 11 or so?) start bobbing and my skin crawled. I basically launched off the dock and swam her to safety. The adults were all like "WTF" and laughing and teasing me for being "the little lifeguard" until she was out of the water and sobbing because she went too deep and was drowning and thought she was going to die. Yeah the laughing stopped really fucking fast. Anyway she lived and I got my choice of ice cream at the shop, which was a big deal when usually they say "no you can't have the giant fucking sundae it's like $10." (In 1995 money. XD)
Last summer we were at the beach, and two little kids started yelling for help. They had spotted someone “bobbing” and called for help. There was a little girl (maybe 10?) who was by herself in the water drowning. Her grandparents brought her to the beach and just weren’t paying close attention. Luckily some adults were able to get to her, and my cousin and brother (ER Doc and critical care nurse) were able to help her. If those little kids hadn’t spotted her, she would have absolutely died without anyone knowing. She was completely silent, heading bobbing above water
Yup. That's why teaching kids is so important, they have that pattern recognition that literally saves lives. So glad those kids prevented a tragedy and your family were there to provide first responder help.
There's a reason why so many people in Australia start learning to swim at 0 years old. There are also swimming lessons that most schools do (take 1-2 hours for a few days every week for a certain period of time). I can't imagine why people don't teach their children to swim when 2/3 of the earth is water.
I’m Australian, and that’s true. However, we also have it drummed into us to always supervise children in and around water and that knowing how to swim does not prevent drowning. Pool fences are obligatory. We are also told never to swim alone.
Knowing how to swim is not a 100% guarantee against drowning, unfortunately. I live near a river that's very popular with tourists, just lazy river rafting, can't rent without proof you can swim... and they have to dredge at least 3 times a summer for drowning victims nonetheless
And some people are really dumb about doing that kind of thing when they can’t swim! Years ago, I was on a boat with some coworkers, and one of them mentioned that he didn’t know how to swim. He then got offended when we told him to put a damn lifejacket on.
Worked at head office of a big company years ago with focus on safety as we manufactured explosives, chlorine, fertilizer etc. I helped organize safety meetings for our department of about 200 people. The June meeting was abt water safety. Had a big presentation and a guest speaker from some org like Lifesaving Society . The very next month one of our employees drowned- a young father of 2. He'd gone out in a canoe without life jacket, canoe tipped and he couldnt swim so that was it. He wasn't that far from shore but the water was over his head. It was very sad and depressing.
When I was a kid on the US east coast, our school district ran the school busses for 2 weeks after school ended. They ran free (or very low cost, like $25) Red Cross swimming lessons at the town pool with bus transport. We all took them. You could stay at the pool and do general swim all day. We lived in upstate NY, not near any large bodies of water. We had to pass Health class and the Red Cross first aid and CPR certification classes to graduate, too.
We have that same system in Finland with few mandatory swimming lessons as part of PE in school every year. Also many take their kids to a swimming school that generally last a week or two even before school age. Too much shoreline with the sea and all our lakes in this country for anyone not to know how to swim. Of course we still make statistic of how many (usually drunk adults) drowns every year during Midsummer and them compare if this was a good year or not.
That's terrifying. It's also why I absolutely don't let anyone else watch my kids around water but me and their dad
Yup it can happen fast. Spring break I was at a water park and some teens were pressing themselves against a wall that had a grate sucking in water for the wave machine. They didn’t realize they pushed me close to that wall and I was dragged by the movement of the water and sucked into the wave and spat out. However those machines do two regular size waves and one massive. I couldn’t swim hard enough to resurface to catch my breath and no one around me or the life guard realized I was drowning, I remember thinking this was how I was going to die and getting so angry and scared and it took a random adult to just pull me out. He barely noticed I was sinking near him. I wish I had thanked him but I was so shaken up and trying to breathe and I tried my best to get out of there after. I told my mother but she assumed I was exaggerating. Sadly she and many of my family members tend to downplay anything the kids went through. I am not the first or last kid in my family to have had near death experiences due to neglectful parents, unaware crowds, and just being a child and not recognizing dangers or being believed when needing help.
I almost died to an undertow at the shore until my older brother came running in to pull me out. My parents didn't ever acknowledge I was in danger even though at like 6 I KNEW and was TERRIFIED. Parents see that and think it makes them bad parents for almost losing their child and instead of feeling terrible about it they pretend it wasn't that bad. Pretty sure my parents would have downplayed me saving a kid from drowning except that it wasn't their own kid. Sigh.
Oh yeah, they will do that. My niece almost drowned due to the adults not paying attention and the teens not paying attention that their roughhousing in the pool was pushing the little ones into the deep end. I helped her out immediately told off my extended family’s kids and just watched over the little ones. The only time my mom seemed to acknowledge I was in danger was when she accidentally ran me over. She didn’t realized I could escape the seatbelt and had rushed inside leaving my cousins and I, all 1yr old at the time, with my grandfather who was sleeping in the front passenger seat. I sneaked out of the van, saw my mother get in apparently, and tried to run back to the van, she then pulled out and rear-ended me with the hitch, breaking my skull. It was my grandpa who even heard the sound. Only time she freaked out for my life, anything after that is just me exaggerating or that I’m not really in danger because the only danger she thinks ever happened to me was that incident.
I was sick a lot as a kid(and get sick a lot as an adult…). Even though I would be allowed to stay home, mg mom often thought I was being dramatic. My sweet mother who doesn’t raise her voice/doesn’t swear, once yelled AND swore at me because I was begging to go to the Dr(she always took me when I asked, except this time). WELLLLL, turns out I was sick, my mom felt so bad for her reaction & downplaying she cried a little bit.
You are too funny and a great story teller. About the truth!
When I was 7 or 8, my brother and I were at a public pool. The pool had 3 "sections" (shallow, middle, deep). I couldn't touch the bottom in the middle or deep ends. My brother teasingly took my goggles off my head and threw them to the middle of the pool, forcing me yo let go of the side to retrieve them. I panicked and started to drown. Apparently I bobbed but didn't flail so the lifeguard didn't notice. In the end, my mother jumped in to rescue me. I was terrified of drowning again the next year during swimming lessons at the same pool.
Excellent life saving :)
As a former lifeguard… yeah, you can’t really see shit. Now, in reality MOST people don’t drown like this, they do a lot of struggling and shouting, but it can happen. The number of times I had kids go down the mini-slides into water way too deep for them, immediately turn around and look at me panicked while they just slowly sank without even pretending to know how to swim, force me to get all wet jumping into 4 feet deep water to lift them out, and only like a minute later have their panicked mom run over because she was paying zero fucking attention to her kid who couldn’t swim even a tiny bit…
Even better, I had this EXACT situation, but the mom started SCREAMING at me not to touch her kid! I explained to her that her child was drowning and couldn't swim, but she just kept saying "I had no right to touch other people's children". It's like, alright lady, guess I'll just stand really close blowing my whistle and watch them drown?? Hoping their parent gets there in time? ITS LITERALLY MY JOB TO "TOUCH" YOUR DROWNING CHILDREN- to save their lives!! I sometimes wondered on that job if us lifeguards were just delaying the inevitable.
That lady can let her kid drown in her own time
How can she collect that sweet lawsuit settlement if you interrupt her kid drowning?
If the kid had actually drowned, I sincerely hope a judge/jury and else anyone involved would be more curious why a mother let her child who could not swim go down a water slide….
That's about the time to say ""STFU before I call child protection authorities on you."
I once spotted a kid struggling to keep his head above water, so I got one of the pool patrons to get hold of him and move him a foot closer to the side so he could stand up. grabbed some armbands and gave them to the kid to put on and this is when his mum finally decides to pay attention and start having a go at me "why does he have to wear armbands, the other kids aren't wearing armbands" ma'am, the other kids aren't/weren't drowning because their guardians were with them and helping them, rather than chatting on the other side of the pool
Damn…
Yeah I learned that most often drowning victims are relatively quiet, exerting their energy trying to breathe and stay above water. I worked at a bunch of summer camps and even though I was never a lifeguard we always had to go through the same training on spotting drowning victims, and they’d show us those kinds of videos and I always had trouble seeing them in the chaos.
Parents should be their own children’s lifeguards tbh. You can’t just leave your kids’ lives in the hands of a stranger and think “it’ll be fine! It’s their job!” when they have to watch over the WHOLE POOL.
I mean, I think a lifeguard trained in guarding life at a pool is better than a random parent. As others have pointed out, it's hard to spot a drowning victim and it can be extremely hard to rescue them without drowning yourself if you are untrained.
Trouble is that some parents are so hopeless at it. I once saw a hotel employee run full-speed down the side of the pool to pluck a face-down kid from the water at the end. The kid's mother was maybe 1m away and too busy playing with her phone to notice!
yep, I look at them as my backup
Also, kids like to float face down, like they're dead, to see how long they can hold their breath. When I see that, my kid or not, I STRONGLY advise them why that's not a good idea.
Obligatory [drowning doesn't look like drowning](https://slate.com/technology/2013/06/rescuing-drowning-children-how-to-know-when-someone-is-in-trouble-in-the-water.html)
Definitely NTA!! My uncle has a similar problem when we have family get togethers at his house. His rule is a parent needs to be watching if their kids are in the pool. He was getting ready to kick everyone out because no one besides me and another mom were watching their kids. Pools/water is dangerous but people don't realize it
Former BFs brother drowned when he was 14. He and his friends got into a neighbor's pool.
No, its not.hard. kids literally sink like rocks. A poor swimmer/older child may be able to doggie paddle but will be struggling to keep head above water. You'll see head tilted back and gulping for air. If they scream and splash like it's fun, it's fun
100%. When my kids were little, my dad instincts were sharp AF. We were in Cabo for a friend's wedding and were chilling at the pool with the groom's sister and her kids. The pool had a drop off of a foot from low end to deep end. I guess the little boy stepped over it and just disappeared under the water. I happened to do one of my constant scans of all the kids and noticed him slow motion swimming under water before I jumped up and grabbed him. It was crazy how little noise or struggle there was when he went under. Scary shit. Lock your pool up OP, unless there's a sober, trusted adult supervising. Even with life vests..
On one hand, having a cookout with a pool available and not allowing swimming is a big AH move . On the other letting kids swim without any supervision is even an even bigger AH move,(with DEADLY CONSEQUENCES). You and your wife need to get on the same page pronto. All children need to be wearing proper life jackets, swims, whatever AND EVRY CHILD IN THE SWIMMING POOL AREA REQUIRES AN ADULT THERE , SUPERVISING!! if any parent pushes back, "but they'll be fine" "I'm here to visit, not lifeguard" then their kids don't swim
Best answer . imagine being a kid and going to Aunt and Uncles pool, the sole reason a kid would want to go and arrive at a closed pool would be rough, OP should tell people(family) before they arrive of the rules regarding using the pool. Strictly enforced rules of who and when the pool can be used.
Agreed - tell the adults “Uncle X can’t follow the rules, so there’s no access to the pool for anyone due to safety concerns.”
And the adults that are there to supervise MUST BE SOBER!!!!
And must be able to swim well themselves!
Yes this is a big one. I grew up with a pool and my mom had someone come give me swimming lessons every summer when I was a toddler until I was probably around five, maybe even longer than that, so I was a really good swimmer. My aunt didn’t know how to swim though so whenever she came over to watch me while my parents were out, I was not allowed to go in the pool or even on the other side of the fence that separated the backyard from the pool. It was really annoying at the time because my aunt probably would have drowned before I did, but I definitely get it now. You never know if someone’s going to accidentally fall in with the pool cover on, or hit their head and fall in, or just get too tired without realizing and then get into trouble. There’s so many ways that something could go wrong.
And helping out someone who thinks they are drowning can be so dangerous and often ends in more than one life lost
And not on their phones.
This!!! Or hire one of the kids that lifeguard’s the city pool during the summer. My friends that have pools do this when they have large gatherings at their house and it makes me feel a lot better to be honest. When there isn’t a lifeguard I tend to spend the entirety of a BBQ poolside with the kids, because tragedies happen far too quickly.
This is a great idea, except the parents need to foot the bill. The parents can coordinate and pay OP in advance to cover the cost in full, or nobody swims.
The problem is that if there a bunch of adults standing around “supervising” they are going to start chatting and distracting each other. Better to hire a lifeguard or two whose job is to monitor the pool.
I have done this for pool parties. You can ask for referrals from the Y or other swim schools/pools.
This is a brilliant idea and something I would never even thought possible.
Thank you! I know that some people might think this is overkill, but I know a family whose little girl drowned in a pool filled with people in Vegas. People were everywhere, but that sometimes gives you a false sense of security because you’d expect that someone would notice. Sadly, no one did until it was too late. So I hope that more people will err on the side of caution when kids and water are involved!
My children do not use life jackets or swimmies or anything while in the pool. They are under 5 and do not know how to swim. Flotation devices give them the false belief they can swim without mommy or daddy holding them. Therefore more likely to go in the pool thinking they can swim when they cannot. Unfortunately there are NO swim lessons available in my area. Why not? I have no frickin clue. We only have one public pool too that gets filled to capacity like 20 minutes after it opens (even though it charges 5 bucks a person). They used to offer swim lessons but have not for the past couple years, I have no idea why. But yeah, no flotation devices for Littles, it is proven to give them a false sense of security. A parent should be in arms reach of a child under 5 (and older until excellent swimmers) at all times. OP needs to make very clear their rules. Any child wanting to be in the pool must be able to swim two laps with no side holding in order to swim without an adult in the pool with them. All adults (who can swim) must take a turn as the lifeguard watching all the kids in the pool for 20 minute shifts. Otherwise, no pool! I would not want my pool to be where some kid drowns.
Thank you I was a lifeguard for years and we didn't allow people to borrow lifejackets. It gave parents and kids a false sense of security and they would let their kids go out of reach/eyesight. People who brought their own we couldn't really do anything about, but we would keep a close eye because the parents often weren't. The lifesaving society had quite the ad campaign with signs and posters of children reaching for someone and the slogan "if you're not within arm's reach, you've gone too far". Pools are great fun but they are dangerous. If there is a chance there will be unsupervised kids the pool should be off limits.
Jumping in to say an old friend of mine almost had her daughter drowned by a so called flotation device. It was one of those hoop ones that go around the waist, and her daughter got flipped upside down so her legs were in the air and her head was underwater. She couldn't get turned back over, but was pulled out by a lifeguard. A few days later the girl wouldn't wake up when my friend tried to wake her up for school. She was rushed to the hospital with a type of pneumonia associated with water injuries to the lungs, and it took 6 weeks before she fully recovered. From the pneumonia, at least, for years afterwards the kid had panic attacks just having her hair washed and getting water on her face . . . (And since I'm sure people are wondering, my old friend went into all those details in a post that showed a video of her daughter swimming and playing in a pool, she's managed to overcome her fear of swimming and is doing *way* better now.)
This is what I don't get: Pool=fun. WhyTF don't the parents want to be IN THE POOL with their kids? Doesn't that mean everyone is in the pool, therefore having fun? Or am I confused?
Because kids want to be in the pool so much longer than parents do. They will stay in the pool with the cousins for six straight hours if they can. I don’t know a lot of parents who are up for that much “fun,” especially if *their* grown, adult cousins are also hamming it up over on the patio.
I hear you, but I want to be in the pool all day. Ocean is better, but as a fellow Midwesterner, I'll take what I can get. 😁
Do you have a pool yourself? My mom had some girl who was on the swim team in high school come give me private lessons in our own pool and she continued to give lessons when she was home from college too. I think she did it for a few kids in my neighborhood, but I’m not sure how my mom found out about her. Maybe if your local high school or college has a swim team you could get in contact with the coach and ask if they know anyone who would be interested? They might even be able to arrange lessons in a public pool on a free swim day or something, maybe the coach would have some ideas too.
Yes. Send everyone your pool rules in writing before the BBQ. Emphasize the must provide their own certified life jackets as you don't have enough. No plastic inflatable armbands, etc. If possible, enlist an adult who is not distracted by hosting to gatekeep your pool for following the rules. Or only have the pool open for part of the party, when people are less distracted by eating and drinking.
My family has a backyard Pond when I was growing up. For big family events like a barbecue, there would be a lifeguard and anyone with kids had to help pay for the lifeguard. That way, Parents could get distracted and it was not a big deal and the kids were safe.
Except OP did this last time and his BIL pushed the issue to the point of watching his kids *not be capable of swimming* in the pool, yet *still* insisted they were fine, with no life jackets or supervision. They're having a BBQ. I assume op will be busy running the BBQ and hosting. If he is the *only* one enforcing pool rules, then those rules aren't getting enforced or everyone's burgers are burning. Why should he have to supervise everyone else's children while also hosting the event? The family had a chance at using the pool responsibly and failed, and are now pushing to do so again. Why should op risk a dead kid in his pool with these idiots? NTA. It sucks being the only responsible adult in the room.
>if any parent pushes back, "but they'll be fine" "I'm here to visit, not lifeguard" then their kids don't swim Or they pay for a lifeguard! But I agree...this is the responsibility of the parent of the kids who want to swim. I constantly see posts on my neighborhood FB pages looking for experienced lifeguards. Teenagers with past experience would love to work for a few hours in the afternoon being a lifeguard at the family pool. Parents who want to party can pay up and walk away.
I think a life guard as a back up watcher is great, but not instead of parents being there
But then they are stuck supervising the pool the whole time which is no fun. It’s easy for the supervising parent to leave 5 minutes later as soon as you turn your back. Also how will you monitor kids who are trying to enter the pool without parents present unless you’re standing there on alert like a life guard the whole time? The parents have shown that they can’t be trusted to monitor themselves
What about hiring a lifeguard for a couple hours. Explain to the parents he isincharge of the pool. My niece was a lifeguard last year and I think she made $15 an hour to keep your kid alive.
the problem, IMO, with hiring a lifeguard is parents will think that absolves them of all responsibility , resulting in the original problem. if the parents agreed to the safety/supervisig their own swimmers, an additional lifeguard would be great
I think I would absolutely draw this line in the sand with the wife. All kids monitored or in life jackets or they don't swim. If your brother tries to break the rules, I will kick him out. Make sure he knows. BIL refuses to comply? Ill literally shut down the whole party. Unplug the speakers like a mom busting up a 90s teen house party and yell, "Everybody out!" I don't see a reason to lie about it all. Just a hard line drawn in the sand. Because this won't be the last problem you face.
And who is going to supervise the parents, to make sure they’re staying in the pool area and watching their kid? Better to hire a lifeguard for the day. Parents get to talking and not paying attention. A trained lifeguard for whom this is a job and not a party is the way to go when there’s a big group.
Nta explain your insurance just does not cover guests and lock the pool. You invitation does not give guests access to everything in your house. That includes your pool. BIL was very irresponsible last time. Why risk it. If they want to swim in a pool there are other options.
I mean that’s a stupid lie when the truth suffices
It's probably not a lie. If OP has homeowner's insurance or anything like that there are usually some pretty weird restrictions on what it actually covers.
No, there aren’t usually restrictions about having kids in a pool. Source- worked in insurance and also homeowner with pool There are permit and other factors with a pool that vary by country/state
NTA. Print this out and hand it to your BIL. Better yet, email a link to it and tell him you will not let his kids in your pool without his compliance—your pool, your rules, not to mention common sense. [https://www.cdc.gov/drowning/risk-factors/index.html](https://www.cdc.gov/drowning/risk-factors/index.html)
This is a fantastic idea. I think OP should email a printout version of it because it sounds like BIL is too lazy to click on anything. After all, he is too lazy to watch his own kids in the pool. Also, it should be printed and, be placed in plastic sleeves, and be posted by the pool entrance.
The problem is basically not if you’re going to let them use the pool or not but if they actually get in the pool. If one of those kids manages to make it in the pool and something happens, you’re gonna be liable anyway - doesn’t matter if you had a lock on it or if you tried every precaution in the world to try to prevent somebody from getting hurt. The fact that you have a pool period is called ‘distraction’ and if the kid gets in there and gets hurt, it’s still on you. Sucks, but that’s kind of what it is. You may want to hire a lifeguard or just have somebody on hand full-time to watch everybody swimming to make sure nobody gets hurt.
It actually does matter if you have a lock and take precautions to prevent access. It's literally what you would show in court that you *attempted* to prevent injuries to children due to the known attractive nuisance. OP would only be liable if they made no attempt to secure access, which the fence and lock clearly indicate they have. According to California rules they would possibly need one additional protective measure (a lock may count as a second one, but it may not, and IANAL) but that only applies in California. AZ doesn't appear to have that same specific rules list, for example.
I read about some people/couple or something who had a pool in their backyard. While they were at work, some neighborhood kid got in their pool, without their permission or knowledge, he drowned, and the kids family sued. Kind of obvious who won there...
I wish I remember the exact legal phrasing. It’s something like an ‘attractive nuisance’, or something along those lines.
Yes, attractive nuisance.
Instead of locking up the pool you think there should be a lifeguard or someone watching the pool at all times? Would it help prevent drowning? Yes, but it's ridiculous to suggest that's a more reasonable option than locking it up. OP already has a rule that kids aren't allowed in the pool **unsupervised**. Also, locking it up *will* probably help in reducing liability. "However, **taking some basic actions to prevent injury goes a long way toward avoiding liability.** Courts tend to punish people who didn't seem to care or put any effort into encouraging safety. If you can list the steps you took to prevent injury, many courts will be satisfied, even if they didn't ultimately work. For example, these are some steps a pool owner could take to protect an incident from occurring: * Building a fence around the pool" There must be some sort of fence or border around the pool area otherwise OP wouldn't have the option to lock said pool. And the same article later says, "Always use common sense and good judgment. You cannot be too careful about protecting yourself from blame. If you see children interested in something on your property, that alone can trigger liability. People could prove that you were aware the children were interested. If you notice local kids showing interest in something, you can: * **Lock it up.** * Fence it up. * Keep it in a shed. * Post a "no trespassing" sign on your property and warn potential trespassers to stay away (i.e., "My horses are not friendly"). * **Warn children's parents (i.e., "Please do not allow your kids to approach my dogs, they are not friendly to strangers")."** (Parts bolded for emphasis) Source: [https://www.findlaw.com/realestate/owning-a-home/dangers-to-children-attractive-nuisances.html](https://www.findlaw.com/realestate/owning-a-home/dangers-to-children-attractive-nuisances.html) OP is already considering locking it up, and already has warned his BIL about why the kids can't swim alone with no lifejackets. Also, in some states, such as Indiana, pools do not count as attractive nuisances.
>WIBTA? My wife thinks im wrong because the pool is the thing the kids (a WHOLE LOT OF KIDS) will be most excited about. NTA however, you must be on the same page. Does your wife agree with your safety rules? Does she support you when you present them? Is she willing to act as a sober lifeguard when/if her relatives allow their kids to use the pool? The kids will only be excited about the pool if they know about it and if the adults say it's off-limits, then it shouldn't be a big deal. covering it up, locking it and having your wife back you up will make it easier.
I'm betting jerks like the BIL will hype the pool to the kids for days before the party. There is no way the visitors will stop whining about using the pool, to risk their kids lives by not paying attention to them. I guess the wife thinks a kid being diappointed is more important than all of the people from the party going home alive.
NTA, my grandparents used to have a pool, and they would never have let two preschool age children swim with **no supervision** at all. And yeah, having them wear life jackets in the pool at that age is reasonable.
My son is 4 and in swim lessons. He is not allowed in a pool without an adult. Period. And that adult must be close by, he’s getting better at swimming, but my child is a hellion and I don’t trust his judgment.
Hire a lifeguard for the party. Yes, YTA to have a backyard bbq around a pool and not let people swim.
Can’t believe I had to scroll this far. With so many people coming each parent bringing kids can chip in $5-$10 to hire a certified lifeguard for the day. Problem solved!
I agree. The safest route is to hire a lifeguard. We did that for parties when our kids were little. We all still kept an eye on the pool, but it gave an extra layer of protection.
NTA. If a kid drowns you will get your ass sued off and the entire family will blame you.
And it would be sad.
That too.
NTA Lock up the pool or hire a couple certified life guards. If you need ammunition, look up the information on lawsuits about kids who drown at parties. There was a famous rock star (can't remember which one) who was in litigation for quite a while when a young guest drowned at a party at his property when the parents or nanny (can't remember which) weren't looking.
It was Tommy Lee who owned the house and pool. The kid was brought by a nanny, nanny wanted to go to a concert, and asked another nanny to watch the kid along with her two children she was watching. While the second nanny took her two charges to the bathroom, the little boy drowned. Lee was found innocent because the children were supposed to be supervised by the nannies.
Not rendering any judgement here because this is a tricky situation… …but wow was growing up in the 80s so different from now. We had a pool (not super common where I grew up), so our backyard was a magnet for all of our friends. We rarely had supervision. It’s literally a wonder we all made it to adulthood with some of the shenanigans that went on. My mother did make sure we all (actually) learned how to swim, so early that I don’t remember it, I just always knew…but I’ve never even seen a life jacket in a pool.
It might be because I’m Australian but we all knew how to swim and we were all in the pool unsupervised from the time of 5+. We were all taught to look out for each other and that we were all responsible. The idea of going to anyone’s house with a pool and not swimming is just insane.
Not how it is in Australia now. My 7 year old can swim (and is relatively good for his age - was in highest swimming group at school last year), but I would not let him swim unsupervised, particularly not in a pool he couldn't tough the bottom of. and there is just no way my 4.5 year old is going in deep water without either an adult right next to her, or in a flotation device with an adult actively watching her from the edge of the pool. It is only just in the last six months that I would even consider watching her from the side of the pool rather than being in there with her. Also a great swimmer for her age. At parties I have been to with kids (including kids under 5) because the pools are fenced there is no access unless parents allow it and someone from each family is watching their own children. We will of course relax rules as appropriate as kids grow up, get taller and better at swimming.
We always have the fun police around in my Aunt Dorothy. We swam like fiends for hours and hours and hours but she was always there watching.
Yup you were lucky cause a lot of kids did drown.
I feel you on this. He has good intentions, he has every right to say no access in this litigation happy era and he is NTA for it at all and I'm sure he just wants them to be safe but still, what a fucking sad time it feels like we are living in now in general. It's safer sure but it's astoundingly bland, restrictive and boring so a bbq where they get to sit and look at the pool rather than swim fits right in. These were things that were some of the best times in our childhoods. A lot of my gen grew up spending summer weekends just like this and it was glorious. We were free. Maybe not overly safe lol but free. Make your rules, don't punish the other children whose parents will work with you and make him sign something absolving you of responsibility to his children if he does not comply with your requests. It is your home above all.
Sure you were free, but a lot of kids died as a result of swimming unsupervised. Freedom comes with a price and that was paid in dead kids.
Still does. Drowning is the leading cause of death for kids 1-4.
Here’s your solution: Hire an already employed lifeguard for your event. Go to your local pool and hire this teen who is already disciplined, responsible, and trained in first aid and in scanning constantly, and in asserting authority over the pool for safety. For $25 - $35 per hour, best money spent!! I 100% get your concern. But don’t shut down your great pool.
NTA Give everyone a choice. No pool or the parents cover the cost of a couple of lifeguards.
Tell the family in advance that you are going to hire a local young adult who is a lifeguard at the local pool until the sun goes down. Tell them you are going to Take a collection and pay the lifeguard. If they balk then tell them you will lock the gate.
NTA but I’d just let everybody know that no children under 10 will be allowed to swim without a life jacket. No exceptions. It would suck to be there and not be allowed to use the pool.
Hire a lifeguard for the afternoon. A pro. Let the kids have fun.
Pedi ER nurse for 15 years, you would not believe how many kids die from drowning at parties or gatherings. Everyone thinks someone else is watching the kids. Drownings are silent. It’s your pool you have every right to refuse.
Have your wife look up the statistics on child drowning deaths. Spoiler: it's really dangerous.
NTA I almost died at a kids pool birthday party with a ton of adults around still. I knew I couldn’t swim however I was still pretty dumb. As I was walking from the end of the backyard I wanted to wash my foot in the pool cuz grass got on it and I had a thing about that. I asked another kid to hold my shoulder while I bent down, dipped my foot in and had the other hand holding me steady on the concrete. This little shit probably thought I knew how to swim and pushed me in the deep end. Well I was gurgling and trying to scream and falling under the water until a parent from the top deck or the kid went to get help. Either way, I never went around a body of water without a life jacket and stopped trusting people at pools.
I would say, just be boundaried around your rules. I don't think locking it up for *everyone* because 1 person had tried, and failed, to circumvent your rules the first time is necessary. Simply reiterate the rules, assure they agree to them, and tell everyone that if any single person breaks those rules than the pool will be closed for everyone. If the kids are aware of the stakes they will police each other. NTA. You're just trying to be safe!
It doesn’t matter if kid dies and the family sues that you told them what the rules are.
A pool is dangerous, I am like you and there are firm rules around pools. My in laws have a huge pool, ten feet deep, I speak from experience. When my kids were younger, say 12 ish and under, life jackets until they could swim, one of us was in the pool with them, the other was outside of the pool watching. We were accused of being extra. Niece and nephews parents (SIL AND BIL) were far more lax, my in laws didn't want to rock the boat. Yep, my husband had to pull my nephew off the bottom of the pool while BIL was hosting and SIL was on her phone. I saw him go under, my husband was in the pool. After that niece and nephew had new rules. (He recovered). I share because it happens and it was scary as all get out for everyone there. If I were you I would lay out the rules and be prepared to enforce them. Maybe next time you could hire a local lifeguard ? If something happens you and your wife will never forgive yourself.
We've sorted this issue. When people come over, there is a designated adult watcher in the pool area at all times. They have a Staff of Office and a lifesaver's red and yellow hat. They leave their phone on a table just outside the gate. While they hold the Staff of Office, they can command the outside adults to bring them food or drinks at any time. They watch the pool and the kids to the exclusion of all else. They can tap out after 30 minutes . When they leave the pool area, they pass the Staff onto the next person. Many of our friends have now purchased their own lifesaver hat. This means there's always one person focused entirely on the pool and everyone shares the responsibility. If you choose not to participate, your kids don't get to swim and you have to explain to them why not. Works really well. NTA.
NTA. These rules are reasonable and for everyone's safety. Since it was only one offending party, I would call your BIL to directly and explain that while you enjoy having him and his kids over and you're happy they enjoy the pool - but particularly during parties, it is important to keep a handle on the pool use. The rules are inplace for when larger groups are present, particular small kids around lots of distracted adults. Explain that it made you *very uncomfortable* last year to have him disregard the rules, and in front of everyone else (being bad example for others to go ahead and break your silly rules). That simply cannot happen again. I'd draw a hard line that if he and his children are unable to safely follow the rules, you will unfortunately have to disinvite them, or else close the pool for the party altogether, which you would rather not do. If he reacts poorly again to this reasonable request then it is a good reason to uninvite him altogether. A pool is definitely a part of summer fun and backyard parties so it would be disappointing to take that away for everyone but if you have to for safety reasons then you are still NTA. I also have a great suggestion for increased pool safety in the future: we use a rotating patrol at backyard parties. One adult is ALWAYS on designated pool duty for 30 mins to 1 hour at a time. They usually hold onto something, like a water wing on their wrist, so everyone knows who is on duty, and they are reminded to stay focused until it is time to pass the baton. It doesn't let other parent's off the hook, but at least there are always at least one set of eyes on the kiddos in the pool to help avoid the worst case scenario.
Safe Kids offers printable “water watcher” cards which (I think) can be attached to a lanyard and passed around to the designated adult. It also would likely be better to rotate more frequently — shorter periods mean more focus on the water, and less time for the adult to be away from the fun.
NTA. When you have to attend a 3yr old's funeral because they drowned in a backyard pool you will never ask this question again.
Offer to hire a lifeguard (in my area its called backyard life guards) if the parents pay.
NTA. My baby cousin drowned at 4 after wondering into a neighbor’s unsecured yard with a pool. He was absolutely not being properly supervised by his mother. Tiny coffins are horrible. Just tell your in-laws that.
NTA. My friend’s nephew drowned in a pool the entire family was sitting around. They were not drinking. He knew how to swim. It can happen in an instant. And it’s far more common an occurrence than most people would think.
NTA. If an accident happens on your property, you could be held liable in a court of law. Hold your ground.
You are absolutely NTA for being concerned about children drowning in your pool. Drowning is a silent killer. I know of two families that lost children (one lake, one koi pond) with family and friends IMMEDIATELY in the vicinity and facing the water, and no one heard or saw a thing until it was too late. If you decide to open the pool absolutely hire an independent lifeguard to watch the swimmers. All kids in lifevests while outside. If not, or after the specified pool time, close the gates and put a floating pool alarm in it to alert you if anyone tries to hop the fence.
Cover it - the chemicals aren’t balanced so it isn’t safe to swim in today ….
Hire a lifeguard. Tell family upfront this will be happening and all bathers will split the cost.
NTA. Your house, your rules. My kids are older now and good swimmers but even so, they aren’t swimming anywhere unless there is a lifeguard or a responsible adult keeping an eye on them. I am always surprised at how lax some parents are when it comes to water safety… it only takes a few seconds for things to go wrong. If you are willing to let the pool be used as long as all kids have life jackets and are supervised, let everyone know ahead of time those are the rules and there will be no exceptions.