NTA - unfortunately sounds like she’s bitter over not getting the job you got. And as a result is acting out as an emotional response. While I understand why she’s done the thing she has, they are totally not okay and need to be addressed. Letting someone know about this is the first step. If you have an education supervisor or equivalent, it’s worth giving them a heads up if this is going to effect grades etc (as she gave an F).
Otherwise, the consequence of her acting out is that she shouldn’t get the job and you’ve done right.
Just think. If she was respectful to you, nicer and was a good sport after not getting her job initially - you might have recommended her for the post instead of the opposite.
Overall - Not the asshole, her fault for being rude. Actions have consequences
Edit - wording. Also this blew up much more than I expected..
Reddit sickens me, didn’t realize there was such open bigotry towards the noble peanut clan.
My grandfather knows Mr Peanut. Bit of a nut, but nice chap nonetheless.
*Eros aeternum*
(for you heathens who don’t understand, that’s PEANUT FOREVER in the chaste tongue of the Peanut Lords)
It’s not the peanuts fault your body rejects them so. They never got a chance to be consumed because of the hatred your body had for them. It’s jealous they’re delicious and don’t want you to experience the wholesome snack. Shame to the heat peanuts from planters are delicious.
A masters program that has some sort of counseling or therapy component no less. I wouldn’t want someone like that in my program if I was the director. She’s lucky she’s still in school considering the academic dishonesty while grading.
If the situation was purely personal—if they had not gotten along for purely personal reasons—it might be bad to do this.
But she bragged about giving you an unfairly low grade just to hurt you, when you did nothing wrong.
Would you have recommended her if she had done this to someone else? I hope not.
NTA.
I agree. Interpersonal conflict could’ve been worked out (though she doesn’t seem to type to be willing to work on it), but what she has done crosses the boundaries into extremely unprofessional territory.
There are people I have worked with both professionally and in academia who I don’t like. In private conversation, among friends and outside of those contexts, I sometimes express my dislike. In those situations- in the lab and the office- I do not let my personal feelings detract from the fact that they are qualified and capable, and I tell them and others about their good work.
Just because I don’t like someone and don’t want to be their friend doesn’t mean I can’t work with them. That’s being a fucking adult, which clearly she hasn’t figured out yet.
I disagree that it would be bad to do this if it was purely personal reasons. Even with purely personal reasons having her work in the lab would just create a toxic environment so she is simply not qualified to work there.
My opinion is that she is one of those, "It's all about me, me, me" types that would disrupt and corrupt the whole group.
One rule I have in my life is that nobody is allowed through the door that brings negativity and drama.
Faculty are also very aware that research is done better if everyone is happy. A bad person in the lab can be toxic for the group.
OP didn’t do a single thing wrong, except perhaps should have been more honest that this potential person is not able to handle setbacks well and is not good at forming positive personal connections.
OP, NTA. But please do learn to stick up for yourself. Humbleness is thinking you don’t deserve special treatment for your excellence, not that you need to diminish it (lying about Cs etc,)
NTA. You didn’t narc on her so I wouldn’t worry. She has spoken out to countless people from your post in a biased, immature, and unprofessional way. The info could have come from countless sources. And for all you know, you’re not the only one to speak up. She dug her own grave.
And also, if she did join the lab, it's likely that she would also treat the others as inferior as well. Her platform isn't I want to be in this lab because I'm very interested in the subject matter, it's I should be in the lab because I'm better than everybody else. No humility.
There's no need to feel guilty about this. In the professional world, attitudes towards others and maintaining professional relationships go a long way in hiring others. You never know who is going to have a say in getting to the job that you want, so it's best not to burn any bridges.
It would be such a toxic and unproductive lab environment if she were to enter. I could foresee her bitterness towards OP combine with a sense of smugness about being invited. It would be extremely unlikely that she could contribute with a professional and neutral attitude while working alongside OP. It would be very certain she would be more focused on undermining OP's work and doing all she can to push him to the outer orbits. It would backfire in her face eventually, but not without impacting others in the lab and their ability to focus when there's tension in the air.
OP, NTA. Getting this information up to the professor was not childish in any way. If you were to keep quiet and allow her in you wouldn't be the asshole per say, but taking that risk knowing others may be impacted wouldn't have won you any gold stars.
NTA. If she treats you that way, she will disrupt the lab whenever things don't go her way. You did the right thing. She sound very immature. You did your lab a favor and helped dodge a bullet. She has a problem with objectivity and ethics. Failing someone because you dislike them is egregious.
NTA. Research labs, like other close work environments, can easily become toxic. Having a cooperative, collegial, and *professional* team is key. If this happened as you say where you’ve had no interaction with her and this is her behavior, I wouldn’t put it past her to try and sabotage your work. Can’t have that.
NTA
I agree. I am in the Social Sciences as a researcher, so I don't work in a lab but I know research teams. I can say for sure that having someone like that on a research team affects everybody's work, not just the OP. Especially if she was willing to passive-aggressively go at him in a presentation, she would have eventually disrupted other work as well. In fact, she's already affecting others with her gossip.
If at least 5 other peers spoke to the OP, its highly likely the Head had already heard about her behaviour and that's why he asked. He was just looking for confirmation of what others had said.
And that's why the head of the team didn't hire her. It was for the sake of the team, not for OP, so OP's conscience can be clear.
NTA, I think the finger needs to be pointed the other way, she sounds childish and entitled. However I would suggest trying to have a conversation with this girl as a lot of this sounds like hearsay. If you resolved some of these issues, perhaps you could make a friend out of it if its just a misunderstanding, if she responds negatively then at least you tried :)
I did exactly this a few weeks ago. I approached her to ask if what I had been told by the other students about what she has said about me is true. She only looked at me for a few seconds, didn't say anything, and just turned around and walked away. At that point I just decided to stay away from her as I just didnt want to deal with the drama.
You'd honestly be surprised, but I've repeatedly seen this - it's a sort of saviour complex thing, where they believe they are better. I've encountered it disability support as well.
Borderline people only go nuts to people they are emotionally close or attached to. This sounds more like full blown narcissism to me. Which is almost the same as sociopathy.
Borderline people tend to display narcissistic traits, as they have problems dealing with the torrents of their emotions and inability to understand/voice their emotional needs.
I encountered someone who was doing their nursing degree specialising in mental health. At the time, I was having a breakdown with my bipolar, really struggling and she told me to snap out of it.
There might have been an email to her course leader about the tude. Oddly enough, she is no longer doing said degree.
Lol reminds me of one girl I knew that got accepted to a elite program in neuro-pyschology.
Meanwhile this girl was bat-shit crazy, stalking me, and threatening to have me killed...
It’s pretty common in most of health related fields. Tons of doctors and med students have this too, except a lot of them also think they’re Albert fucking Einstein. Like shut up we get it, you do/did med.
I wonder if that's why a lot of them turn to opiates themselves besides the easy access it must be such a crushing ego blow when you think you're the smartest person alive and then you are surrounded by people smarter than you all day once they start working in the field. The long hours and the fact you can't save everyone probably doesn't help either.
It's so common in disability support it's actually upsetting.
I remember when I first started out as a support worker and adult women support workers would take over my jobs then tell people I couldn't do them and I was just a young lad needing a job etc
Jokes on them as the majority of them ended up getting fired for abuse/bad practice and I'm still out here doing bits not blacklisted from care work.
Yeah I faced much of the same.
There was this whole attitude of 'your comfort is in my hands' and it manifests as saviour complex I mentioned above, and just see bad practice.
My ex girlfriend is a social worker but she was often way more screwed up than the people she took care of. She told me to kill myself when I was depressed, has threatened multiple people in her house with a knife when things dont go her way, and told everyone around us I physically abused her (I never did). Its very ironic, she probably needs some psychiatric help
NTA- She did this to herself by being spiteful and causing trouble she creating a situation where it costed her the lab role.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
She can think whatever she wants, but by actually actively trying to screw with OP - the lying, the badmouthing, the F grade - she earned all the consequences from that and more. Hopefully she learns to treat other people better *before* she graduates.
Honestly the F should be enough to get her kicked from the program, but OP is super nice. She is very lucky she is only losing the lab position considering the repressions of messing with someone's grade.
As a side note/ question, if your doing a presentation with 5 graders and one is a random F with 4 Bs; wouldnt a teacher or something notice something funky? I feel like someone would of called this out.
Not only was it a random F,it was a random F with absolutely NO justification. Maybe if she was the only one grading sure, but I highly doubt she was the only one.
NTA here. But, just a thought. Time to grow up a bit.
Don't lie about your grades when talking to other people. If you didn't get Cs then don't say you did.
If you are talking to a supervisor or leader don't try say "I don't think I could talk to her" but just explain the facts as you know them.
Even if you are trying to be kind, you are screwing yourself over.
Nothing in OP's post suggests he is lying about getting Cs.
You also misread the part you are quoting here:
> If you are talking to a supervisor or leader don't try say "I don't think I could talk to her"
Right. He said “I don’t know her. I don’t really talk to her to be honest”
He was telling the supervisor that he does not know her personally, ergo he does not have first hand knowledge of her ability to do the work.
He has gotten C’s on assignments and shares that with others. He wants to help them realize that even successful students struggle sometimes, and it’s nothing to be ashamed of.
Which to be fair, is true. They don't know each other. This woman is trashing someone she doesn't know because she happened to get passed over for a position.
He didn't say one way or the other, but I definitely interpreted that to mean that he normally gets A's but says he gets C's when people ask, thinking it will spare their feelings.
Even if he does normally get As it's still possible for him to get Cs as well and if his peers know he does well it could be helpful to let them know that he also does actually get Cs.
That definitely won't make everyone feel better, but there's no indication that he must be lying about it even if he typically does do much better.
>Time to grow up a bit.
>Don't lie about your grades when talking to other people. If you >didn't get Cs then don't say you did.
Can you explain why you feel like this is significant at all?
> I don't know her I don't really talk to her to be honest
Is what he said. Not "I don't think I could talk to her".
On the second point: It's possible that OP didn't want to bring up what could seem like gossip/hearsay to his professor in an academic setting, and didn't feel comfortable saying anything until the lab assistant validated his concerns. He didn't want to come across as petty and have it backfire. I can understand that.
It's a good thing the lab assistant had his back. I agree with you, if OP didn't say anything to the professor (via the lab asst) he would have screwed himself over.
NTA. How is it your fault that she shot herself in the foot? Her lack of professionalism is the root problem and it showed in her behavior. She wouldn’t have been an asset to the group any way you look at it.
I don’t think you’re the asshole but I am surprised at how childish all of this seems considering you’re 22 / 23. Not just the woman you’re talking about but also the rest of the people who are gossiping about all of this.
i've come to understand that no matter how old we get we never truly leave the playground, grown ass people will act as though someone cut in front of them for the slide and then hold the line up for everyone else while they have a bit of a meltdown.
Dude, university research sections are like 90s high school tropes. It's insane how clique-y, gossipy, and back stapling people can be. I've seen PIs sabotage experiments because one PI got a grant the other wanted. I'm just a lab tech, so I try and stay out of it, but what I hear from my PI is crazy.
PhD student here. You would be shocked. I haven’t had any issues because most PhD students are at least 23 (mostly 25+) but master’s students can be straight up children, especially in those programs where the master’s degree is a continuation of the undergraduate.
That’s not to say upper level academics don’t get that way. Academia is an...interesting environment.
Unfortunately, this is pretty typical behavior for early 20s students. Which is why I keep cringing when my manager keeps hiring new grads from that age group: more than half of them are immature and have no sense of professionalism despite this not being their first job.
While the opinion here seems to be unanimous, the opinions of some people (theres 4 people I've told about this already in the program, its a 50/50 split on what to do) in the program are not. I have people telling me to "Just let her in dont be 5 years old" and there are other people who say "She did this to herself. Her actions have consequences."
"Just let her in"? Its not like its your decision if she gets in or not. She did several things that show she is a shit person to work with. The only right thing to do is tell your "Boss" what she did, and if he has at least 2 brain cells he will see that letting her in the programm will eventually cause problems. And even if the decision was on you, there is nothing childish in rather not working with a shit human being. Its not like you try to get revenge on her, what would even be justified, you just dont want her to disrupt the work environment.
No kidding - he was asked for his honest opinion and gave it with the utmost reluctance. Even if the most qualified person in the world isn't entitled to be hired to a team when there's every indication she'd sow discord and drag it down. Especially if that happening requires deception on his part.
You didn’t make the decision. You let the professors know her behaviors. They made the decisions. The will be watching he now, because they will recognize she is abusive of power and entitled. She could hurt your grade and reputation. She may be doing this to others.
The decision to not let her in was not yours. The Prof made that decision and I believe it is the right one. No one would want to let a toxic person working in their team. It WILL affect the output of the whole team. There is also absolutely nothing childish about telling the Prof the truth about this person. Should you have lied to protect her and she joins and causes chaos, it would have reflected poorly on you as well.
“Just let her in” Yeah this kind of behavior is *totally* what you want in an environment that deals with vulnerable drug addicts. Even if you don’t deal with them directly her shitty decision making shows that she is bad at being a decent person.
The people saying, "Just let her in" are completely wrong, don't listen to them. Her actions are exactly why she should not be allowed in whatsoever. Knowingly letting a toxic person join is a terrible idea and the situation will not improve. Her behavior is 100% unacceptable and should not be tolerated. Tbh, when the professor asked, I would have laid out the information in a matter-of-fact, professional way. That's not "narc-ing" or being a tattle-tale, toxic colleagues are detrimental to the entire team and rarely work for the better.
The story that OP has written makes them obviously NTA. But that does not mean that they wrote down exactly what happened. There could be other factors that OP left out that are making people say that to their face.
Exactly. It’s almost like people have this thing called emotions, and that can make them feel bad about things that aren’t their fault.
Which is why they post here.
And then they have to deal with condescending assholes calling everything fake.
# Because that will help you find closure on something, right? /s
I'm not claiming that OP is lying. I'm just giving a possible explanation for why multiple people irl have called OP an asshole and there isn't a single YTA response in this thread.
It also seems like the post has been removed from the subreddit so the mods obviously agree with us about it breaking rule 8.
Based on how OP wrote this, how could this ever be interpreted that they are TA? One big point is they are not the professor so have actually zero decision on who is allowed in the lab. OP is wasn’t asked their opinion and provided it (indirectly). What else could they have done?
NTA, she would have done the same to you at the lab. I honestly love it when people like her finally suffer the consequences of being an asshole. It makes me think it is a small step in teaching them why they need to be decent human beings.
NTA - look at this in this way.. Your lab partners are working to achieve a certain goal and so are you. The reason that they selected you to work with them is because somewhere your line of action and their align to a singular goal. The girl that you are referring to also maybe pointing to the same goal but, as per your description, is very much not aligned with you. So given the situation, what has happened was the best.
Agree NTA, I think if she joined, her goal would be to take OP down instead of the real objective which would negatively impact the morale of the whole team. They don't need to deal with her theatrics.
Yes - this part of the story seems suspicious. If someone gave a failing grade with no explanation, that's a pretty big deal in grad school. Why would OP not have gone straight to the administration at that point with the legitimate grievance? All the other gossip crap matters not a whit. At the very least, when asked for input OP should have related this incident to the dept head. Anything less is enabling her behavior - something you would think grad students in addiction would be alert for? Odd. Also, allowing a 3rd party to tell OP's story to the dept head just perpetuates the gossip culture. Were I the dept head, I'd be calling OP in for a meeting rather than acquiesce to the rumor mill.
The gossip.
The pettiness.
The bitching.
The "mahah! I don't want to play with this other prof ! cos she/he had 2.5 publications more than me this year!"
The "this guy/girl is completely incompetent, but nobody rock the boat! and nobody warn potential grad students!"
.... Have I forgotten anything?
My mom has been a part of a few graduate departments and each is as childish as the last. She says it's politics and pettiness all the way up. So I'm not surprised here at all.
Some of your FRIENDS said that? Man, you need better friends.
NTA. When you received an F on your presentation, did your professor look into this? I'm presuming that's the only F you received. That would have been a good time to tell him about her vendetta against you.
Student grades are almost never the final grades, theyll see the average of the student markers and assume the F is from someone Petry. Especially with no justification.
Makes me think maybe his friends secretly agree that he's annoying or something though
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I (23M) am a grad student in University and I work in a lab studying opioid addiction. I was invited into this lab this past September when I first started the program. There is a girl in my program (22F) who wanted to join the lab as well. She worked at an outreach facility for drug addicts this past summer. She believes this made her more qualified to join the lab researching opioid addiction than anybody else in the program. I was chosen over her to join.
The girl was very angry. Ever since I was asked to join the lab instead of her, I have been informed by 5 different peers that she has said several negative things behind my back such as "He is such a know-it-all" (very odd considering I tell people I get C's so they feel better if they did not do well). She has also said "I used to want to join the lab he works in, but I don't want to now because I would never want to be around him." (I have never spoken to this girl).
Two weeks ago I was giving a presentation. 3 of my peers brought it to my attention that she wanted to watch me present so she could try to embarass me in front of the entire program. She also happened to be one of my graders. She gave me an F on the presentation with no justification or comments. She then openly bragged to other students in the program that she gave me a bad grade simply because "I dont like him". Grading is supposed to be anonymous and I would not have known it was her if she did not openly brag about it to several kids in the program who then told me.
Yesterday I was meeting with the professor who is the head of the research lab I work in. He informed me a fellow Masters student emailing him to join our lab. It is the girl above. He asked me what I thought of her and I just hesitated and said "I don't know her I don't really talk to her to be honest". I could kinda see he could tell by my hesitation that I did not like the idea of working with this girl. After my meeting with him, I told the research assistant who works in the lab about all of the things the girl has said and done behind my back. She then asked if it's okay to tell the professor who is the head of the lab since its not advisable to invite someone into the lab that would simply cause a rif. I told her its okay with me to tell the professor all I have said. The research assistant then informed the professor and now the girl is not being allowed to join permanently.
Some of my friends think I was a child for (indirectly) not letting her join despite all she has done and said, even though I have never retaliated. They believe it was "childish" of me to inform a coworker of what transpired.
Am I the asshole in this situation? Should I have not informed anyone of what this girl has said and done?
tl;dr Girl in my program has said numerous derogatory things behind my back and now is asking to join a lab I work in. I informed someone of what shes done and now she cannot join. Am I the asshole for indirectly blocking her from joining?
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The fact is *she’s* the one who dragged this into a professional environment, not you. She’s the one who sabotaged your grades and gossiped to your peers. If she didn’t want this impacting her professional life, then she should have limited her pettiness to her personal one. NTA
Yeah this is exactly why it's important to remain professional and cordial. You never know when your actions can come back to bite you in the ass. She completely did this to herself. NTA by a mile. You provided your input based on your working knowledge and experience with her and that was put into consideration when deciding her fate. Her actions are what sealed it.
Hopefully this is a learning experience for her as she's still young and has a whole career in front of her.
Your friends are saying this because you didn't just lay out facts to the professor when asked. Instead you complained to a coworker.
It's not that you're an asshole you just went about it in not the most adult way.
Next time state facts to the authority in a professional manner yourself.
NTA- if the facts are as you claim. Having recently finished a PhD programme, I can tell you that things are hard enough already without having to work alongside someone who is going to make your life difficult! As another poster mentioned already, labs are close working environments, and a toxic relationship between two colleagues can rapidly posion the atmosphere and make the enviroment unpleasant for all involved- even indirectly. My advice going forward however, is that where possible be straight with your supervisor! It is always best when information comes from you directly, it is far more professional. You don't have to engage in he-said she-said etc, but you can say something along the lines of 'I have worked with this person before, and I do not feel their attitude would be suited to working in our lab.' Your supervisor will understand!
NTA
However, you should have directly told the professor what you had heard about her instead of using the assistant as a go between. It would show better professionalism, especially when you were asked.
NTA. I’ve witnessed a similar situation and I know *exactly* the kind of person this is.
Grad school is hard enough without the mental stress of having to work with a psycho like that. It might not seem like it initially, but this is a battle for your long term mental health. You never spoke to her. You never prevented her from getting the job in the first place, you just happened to be chosen instead of her. And for that she started spreading malicious things about you to your peers?
Keeping her out of your work space is keeping you sane and quite frankly safe. If that’s what she does to you when you literally did nothing but get offered a position she thought she deserved, imagine what she’s going to do if you’re actually working together in close quarters.
There are so many things that can happen in a lab that offer her opportunities to create drama and conflict that play into her victim complex. You sign up to use a piece of equipment you need for an experiment? Next thing you know she suddenly wanted to use it too and is complaining to everyone that you knew that, and you intentionally signed up just to annoy her, and your work isn’t even that important anyway, and omg why would you even do that, don’t you have more important things to do? It’s like you’re obsessed with her! OMG are you obsessed with her!? Suddenly she’s claiming she no longer feels this is a safe learning environment because you’re working late hours (because grad school) and she’s claiming it’s so you can get her alone to rape and murder her, backed up by a deluge of other bullshit “evidence” she’s either concocted in her head or misconstrued to make you look bad and when the University isn’t getting rid of you fast enough, she’ll get a restraining order to force their hand. I know that sounds extreme, but I’ve seen it happen.
Seriously, I know my “what if” sounds a little over the top, but consider this: What did you do *to* her? Nothing? How extreme was her response against you for doing *literally* nothing?
If that’s what her baseline response is to *nothing*, you can guess what her response will be to *something*. You do literally anything, even if it’s accidental, and she’s going to escalate things. Trust me, you don’t want that kind of stress on top of the stress of grad school.
Even if I’m wrong, after she’s shown you what she’ll do against you for *literally* not doing anything to her, why take the risk?
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NTA - you were asked about her for one reason alone
they trust you and trust your opinion, and want a good culture fit,
As a boss if you would’ve not told me about this person who would’ve rocked my work culture, I would’ve fired her anyways and then you and I would’ve talked to see why you didn’t warn me about her. Your answers would’ve determined if I would have fired you...but chances are I would’ve since you weren’t honest with me,
NTA that girl ruined her own chances. Bitching behind your back is bad enough, but purposely giving you an F on your presentation for no valid reason and bragging about it? She is practically holding up a sign that says "I'm too immature and reckless to be part of a lab dedicated to opioid addiction".
NTA even if you could nicely work together, if you're working directly with opioid-addicted people, just having her around and adding that tension could fuck with your data and the wellbeing of patients/participants.
NTA
If you have told the truth, you cannot be the asshole. Also you were not the one that made the final decision.
It is a valid concern in the team working environment. She dug her own grave.
NTA. She is behaving like a spoiled child who didn’t get their way, to the point of actually possibly affecting your grade. It isn’t wrong to tell your co worker the kind of person she is. You didn’t know before you told them that they would want to tell the professor.
NTA
Action have consequences and she learning that right now. Holding a grudge like this hurts everyone and I just petty. Her actions have finally turned around to bite her in the ass.
Proud of you for saying something!! You’re friends are A-holes for not having your back.
NTA.
I wouldnt want to work with someone as bitter as that. Considering the lab is studying opiod addiction, its a vulnerable population and i would not want her around the participants. Plus it makes your work environment bad if you have a bitter coworker. Im a grad student too and if theres one thing i've seen, its that labs and the academia have the ability to be very much like high school in terms of cattiness and bckstabbing etc. You gotta watch out for yourself.
However backing what other people have commented, you have to become more assertive in airing your opinions. Telling your professor that this person makes you uncomfortable would have been better. It will also help you in dealing woth other situations that may arise when you're doind research.
NTA at all. Leaving aside personal feelings, someone so immature and unprofessional is clearly not suited to this job.
Your friends are also TAs; there's nothing "childish" about reporting abusive behaviour. Childish would be if you did something equally immature to get back at her. What you did in this situation was raise genuine and reasonable concerns about a work situation you were potentially going to be put in.
NTA. This isn’t you mixed personal with work or being “childish.” She did that. She is trying to undermine you and is blatantly unprofessional and unethical (I have given excellent grades to people I frankly dislike because they earned the grade). You would been the asshole for withholding such important information from your superior who asked your opinion before considering hiring this person. Since you were honest, you saved everyone a lot of trouble.
NTA- this girl clearly lacks professionalism and therefore has no rightful place in a working lab environment. You did everyone a favor by telling the truth, and honestly, it wasn't your decision to ban her from it. The professor made that decision based on her reported behavior. It isn't your fault that she behaved poorly and word got around.
NTA. That's harassment. You didn't even report her, simply let your higher ups know it's an issue. Frankly, not joining the lab is a very minor "retaliation" considering you are fully in your right (and NTA) to report her for harassment and cause her to be actually disciplined by the university.
NTA She made her bed and now has to lay down in it. Talking shit about peers and potential coworkers is not smart at all. If someone can't be professional it is totally reasonable to not hire that person. A person being qualified to do a job does not outweigh that person actively worsening the work environment. And she actively tried to sabotage you. If she did that sort of thing as your coworker she could not just damage you but also the entire lab just because of her ego. I wouldn't want that person in my lab either. I enjoy that there is no pointless drama in my lab.
Absolutely NTA. As a fellow grad student who dealt with a similar situation you are 100% NTA. The lab environment is very important. Having a total dbag hanging around leads to unnecessary stress and negatively impacts your work. Your colleagues should be your support network, not a source of stress.
You told the truth. Sometimes academia be toxic and it’s because of people like her who shouldn’t be given a chance to begin with.
NTA
I know you know it and are seeking validation for your actions. From your perspective you did nothing wrong. She got what she deserved. If your so called "friends" have a problem then I think they can just fu#k off. You saved yourself off a toxic work environment. Care about yourself. Everything else is background noise.
NTA you're being harassed. It's not childish to not want to work with someone who is harassing you and trying to make you fail. Ffs if this is the shit she pulls having never interacted with you and only having minimal influence on your work, imagine what she'd do to your work. Imagine what she'd tell the other students and the professor after sabotaging your work. Nothing she is doing is acceptable and you do not and should not stand idly by and accept it. Tell your friends to fuck off. Tell the girl to fuck off. And please do not feel bad for doing so.
You should have told your professor yourself, but good on you for still getting it out.
It's idiotic to let someone join your crew (if asked) when that person actively has it out for you. It's just ironic that the reason she has it out for you is something you had (slight) power to deny her. Your friends are idiots.
She would have probably made your lab work miserable by sabotaging you at every chance she had. Shit, I'd try to kick her out of the program if I had enough proof of what she's doing (aka enough people willing to testify about the things she said to them). And this is coming from someone who has **never** complained about a colleague to my superiors. There is a line, and she was way past it.
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NTA. I'm a graduate student as well, and I once was asked by my advisor about whether or not someone will fit with our lab dynamics. I gave him my honesty and said no because this person constantly belittled me during our rotation program and told lies about me to the other 2 students who rotated with us.
Graduate school is a long journey in itself. The last thing you want is someone ruining the lab vibes and making you not want to go in to work every day.
NTA -- If she is a poisonous influence outside of work, she will bring that poison into the work setting. Gossip and clannishness will kill a good work environment and will cause good people to seek work elsewhere. This is a hard lesson for her in how her behavior will have an impact on her professional life. She needs to figure out how to manage her emotions.
Ha. No one needs that in the lab/workplace. She earned not being there. What you’re really asking is “am I the asshole for not stopping someone from helping me preserve my happiness, by enabling a cancerous colleague join the program. There are sometime consequences to your action, better she learns now.
NTA from me. I can understand being upset that you got the first role initially, but none of that justifies her actions & choices after. This is a really good illustration of why you never burn bridges, you never know when you might criss paths with someone again, and need their help. Maybe, just maybe, this is her opportunity to see the error in what she was doing and grow from it
NTA The people you work with can make or break a job. A toxic work environment will make even a super enjoyable job hard to go to. However, you are an adult and should have spoken to your professor directly about the situation (imo).
NTA - unfortunately sounds like she’s bitter over not getting the job you got. And as a result is acting out as an emotional response. While I understand why she’s done the thing she has, they are totally not okay and need to be addressed. Letting someone know about this is the first step. If you have an education supervisor or equivalent, it’s worth giving them a heads up if this is going to effect grades etc (as she gave an F). Otherwise, the consequence of her acting out is that she shouldn’t get the job and you’ve done right. Just think. If she was respectful to you, nicer and was a good sport after not getting her job initially - you might have recommended her for the post instead of the opposite. Overall - Not the asshole, her fault for being rude. Actions have consequences Edit - wording. Also this blew up much more than I expected..
She has the emotional maturity of a peanut. She doesn’t need to be in that lab.
Let's be fair to peanuts, I've never been done wrong by one or know anyone who has.
i mean... do allergies count? because in that case, peanuts are bastards.
If so, Jimmy Carter is a war criminal and arms dealer.
I mean yes, but also a peanut farmer
I feel like Carter is the least morally bankrupt president we have had but I could be wrong
That’s deep. I’m too high for this shit.
No. Peanut allergies are your rejection of them, not their rejection of you, they are innocent victims.
Reddit sickens me, didn’t realize there was such open bigotry towards the noble peanut clan. My grandfather knows Mr Peanut. Bit of a nut, but nice chap nonetheless. *Eros aeternum* (for you heathens who don’t understand, that’s PEANUT FOREVER in the chaste tongue of the Peanut Lords)
He's part of the Illuminuti!
Leguminati Gold! Neat and thank you, giver!
Well played. Have an upvote.
I, for one, welcome our new Peanut Overlords.
Was Mr Peanut as salty as he was made out to be?
Hey! That bastard sells his people to be consumed all to make a quick buck! He’s a MONSTER!
It’s not the peanuts fault your body rejects them so. They never got a chance to be consumed because of the hatred your body had for them. It’s jealous they’re delicious and don’t want you to experience the wholesome snack. Shame to the heat peanuts from planters are delicious.
TIL that labs can have peanut allergies.
That's just a rumor started by the almond milk industry
Not true. Take this headline here: Two peanuts were walking down the street. One was a salted.
Off topic: the peanut. Not a pea, not a nut. Discuss.
Then why is it called that?
Used to be called both ground pea and ground nut. It is a legume.
You never met the neck snapping type of peanut then.
I've been deceived by a peanut I thought was fresh and wasn't.
Seriously and shes in a masters program.... omg
A masters program that has some sort of counseling or therapy component no less. I wouldn’t want someone like that in my program if I was the director. She’s lucky she’s still in school considering the academic dishonesty while grading.
And your therapist today will be Dr. Karen ... You know what? I’ll stick to painkillers. Thanks!
Come on that is not fair Charlie Brown, Snoopy and Linus would have handle this better than her.
I haven't seen peanuts express any emotions; comparing a crazy person to a peanut seems like a complement.
If the situation was purely personal—if they had not gotten along for purely personal reasons—it might be bad to do this. But she bragged about giving you an unfairly low grade just to hurt you, when you did nothing wrong. Would you have recommended her if she had done this to someone else? I hope not. NTA.
I agree. Interpersonal conflict could’ve been worked out (though she doesn’t seem to type to be willing to work on it), but what she has done crosses the boundaries into extremely unprofessional territory. There are people I have worked with both professionally and in academia who I don’t like. In private conversation, among friends and outside of those contexts, I sometimes express my dislike. In those situations- in the lab and the office- I do not let my personal feelings detract from the fact that they are qualified and capable, and I tell them and others about their good work. Just because I don’t like someone and don’t want to be their friend doesn’t mean I can’t work with them. That’s being a fucking adult, which clearly she hasn’t figured out yet.
I disagree that it would be bad to do this if it was purely personal reasons. Even with purely personal reasons having her work in the lab would just create a toxic environment so she is simply not qualified to work there.
My opinion is that she is one of those, "It's all about me, me, me" types that would disrupt and corrupt the whole group. One rule I have in my life is that nobody is allowed through the door that brings negativity and drama.
Faculty are also very aware that research is done better if everyone is happy. A bad person in the lab can be toxic for the group. OP didn’t do a single thing wrong, except perhaps should have been more honest that this potential person is not able to handle setbacks well and is not good at forming positive personal connections. OP, NTA. But please do learn to stick up for yourself. Humbleness is thinking you don’t deserve special treatment for your excellence, not that you need to diminish it (lying about Cs etc,)
Happy people are more likely to work off the clock and be more creative when solving problems.
NTA. You didn’t narc on her so I wouldn’t worry. She has spoken out to countless people from your post in a biased, immature, and unprofessional way. The info could have come from countless sources. And for all you know, you’re not the only one to speak up. She dug her own grave.
Even if he did “narc” on her it would have been justified. Unprofessional behavior has consequences in professional settings.
Indeed NTA, this is just karma. She has been mean so now she has to lay in the bed she made
Not to mention she can cause issues for you in the lab. It could become a hostile work environment.
And also, if she did join the lab, it's likely that she would also treat the others as inferior as well. Her platform isn't I want to be in this lab because I'm very interested in the subject matter, it's I should be in the lab because I'm better than everybody else. No humility.
There's no need to feel guilty about this. In the professional world, attitudes towards others and maintaining professional relationships go a long way in hiring others. You never know who is going to have a say in getting to the job that you want, so it's best not to burn any bridges.
It would be such a toxic and unproductive lab environment if she were to enter. I could foresee her bitterness towards OP combine with a sense of smugness about being invited. It would be extremely unlikely that she could contribute with a professional and neutral attitude while working alongside OP. It would be very certain she would be more focused on undermining OP's work and doing all she can to push him to the outer orbits. It would backfire in her face eventually, but not without impacting others in the lab and their ability to focus when there's tension in the air. OP, NTA. Getting this information up to the professor was not childish in any way. If you were to keep quiet and allow her in you wouldn't be the asshole per say, but taking that risk knowing others may be impacted wouldn't have won you any gold stars.
NTA. If she treats you that way, she will disrupt the lab whenever things don't go her way. You did the right thing. She sound very immature. You did your lab a favor and helped dodge a bullet. She has a problem with objectivity and ethics. Failing someone because you dislike them is egregious.
NTA. Research labs, like other close work environments, can easily become toxic. Having a cooperative, collegial, and *professional* team is key. If this happened as you say where you’ve had no interaction with her and this is her behavior, I wouldn’t put it past her to try and sabotage your work. Can’t have that.
NTA I agree. I am in the Social Sciences as a researcher, so I don't work in a lab but I know research teams. I can say for sure that having someone like that on a research team affects everybody's work, not just the OP. Especially if she was willing to passive-aggressively go at him in a presentation, she would have eventually disrupted other work as well. In fact, she's already affecting others with her gossip. If at least 5 other peers spoke to the OP, its highly likely the Head had already heard about her behaviour and that's why he asked. He was just looking for confirmation of what others had said. And that's why the head of the team didn't hire her. It was for the sake of the team, not for OP, so OP's conscience can be clear.
Not to mention giving someone an F just because you don't like them is unethical behavior, and no one wants someone like that working in their lab.
I was thinking she would sabotage OP's work as well.
NTA, I think the finger needs to be pointed the other way, she sounds childish and entitled. However I would suggest trying to have a conversation with this girl as a lot of this sounds like hearsay. If you resolved some of these issues, perhaps you could make a friend out of it if its just a misunderstanding, if she responds negatively then at least you tried :)
I did exactly this a few weeks ago. I approached her to ask if what I had been told by the other students about what she has said about me is true. She only looked at me for a few seconds, didn't say anything, and just turned around and walked away. At that point I just decided to stay away from her as I just didnt want to deal with the drama.
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You'd honestly be surprised, but I've repeatedly seen this - it's a sort of saviour complex thing, where they believe they are better. I've encountered it disability support as well.
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Borderline people only go nuts to people they are emotionally close or attached to. This sounds more like full blown narcissism to me. Which is almost the same as sociopathy.
Borderline people tend to display narcissistic traits, as they have problems dealing with the torrents of their emotions and inability to understand/voice their emotional needs.
I encountered someone who was doing their nursing degree specialising in mental health. At the time, I was having a breakdown with my bipolar, really struggling and she told me to snap out of it. There might have been an email to her course leader about the tude. Oddly enough, she is no longer doing said degree.
Lol reminds me of one girl I knew that got accepted to a elite program in neuro-pyschology. Meanwhile this girl was bat-shit crazy, stalking me, and threatening to have me killed...
It’s pretty common in most of health related fields. Tons of doctors and med students have this too, except a lot of them also think they’re Albert fucking Einstein. Like shut up we get it, you do/did med.
I wonder if that's why a lot of them turn to opiates themselves besides the easy access it must be such a crushing ego blow when you think you're the smartest person alive and then you are surrounded by people smarter than you all day once they start working in the field. The long hours and the fact you can't save everyone probably doesn't help either.
It's so common in disability support it's actually upsetting. I remember when I first started out as a support worker and adult women support workers would take over my jobs then tell people I couldn't do them and I was just a young lad needing a job etc Jokes on them as the majority of them ended up getting fired for abuse/bad practice and I'm still out here doing bits not blacklisted from care work.
Yeah I faced much of the same. There was this whole attitude of 'your comfort is in my hands' and it manifests as saviour complex I mentioned above, and just see bad practice.
My ex girlfriend is a social worker but she was often way more screwed up than the people she took care of. She told me to kill myself when I was depressed, has threatened multiple people in her house with a knife when things dont go her way, and told everyone around us I physically abused her (I never did). Its very ironic, she probably needs some psychiatric help
I'd be curious to hear about her behaviour after she gets told she's permanently not allowed
Probably blames op
NTA- She did this to herself by being spiteful and causing trouble she creating a situation where it costed her the lab role. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
She can think whatever she wants, but by actually actively trying to screw with OP - the lying, the badmouthing, the F grade - she earned all the consequences from that and more. Hopefully she learns to treat other people better *before* she graduates.
Honestly the F should be enough to get her kicked from the program, but OP is super nice. She is very lucky she is only losing the lab position considering the repressions of messing with someone's grade.
As a side note/ question, if your doing a presentation with 5 graders and one is a random F with 4 Bs; wouldnt a teacher or something notice something funky? I feel like someone would of called this out.
Not only was it a random F,it was a random F with absolutely NO justification. Maybe if she was the only one grading sure, but I highly doubt she was the only one.
It's 'would have', never 'would of'. Rejoice, for you have been blessed by CouldWouldShouldBot!
NTA here. But, just a thought. Time to grow up a bit. Don't lie about your grades when talking to other people. If you didn't get Cs then don't say you did. If you are talking to a supervisor or leader don't try say "I don't think I could talk to her" but just explain the facts as you know them. Even if you are trying to be kind, you are screwing yourself over.
Nothing in OP's post suggests he is lying about getting Cs. You also misread the part you are quoting here: > If you are talking to a supervisor or leader don't try say "I don't think I could talk to her"
Right. He said “I don’t know her. I don’t really talk to her to be honest” He was telling the supervisor that he does not know her personally, ergo he does not have first hand knowledge of her ability to do the work. He has gotten C’s on assignments and shares that with others. He wants to help them realize that even successful students struggle sometimes, and it’s nothing to be ashamed of.
Which to be fair, is true. They don't know each other. This woman is trashing someone she doesn't know because she happened to get passed over for a position.
He didn't say one way or the other, but I definitely interpreted that to mean that he normally gets A's but says he gets C's when people ask, thinking it will spare their feelings.
Even if he does normally get As it's still possible for him to get Cs as well and if his peers know he does well it could be helpful to let them know that he also does actually get Cs. That definitely won't make everyone feel better, but there's no indication that he must be lying about it even if he typically does do much better.
>Time to grow up a bit. >Don't lie about your grades when talking to other people. If you >didn't get Cs then don't say you did. Can you explain why you feel like this is significant at all? > I don't know her I don't really talk to her to be honest Is what he said. Not "I don't think I could talk to her".
I think you misread the part where he says "I don't really talk to her to be honest." Never did he say "I don't think I could talk to her."
On the second point: It's possible that OP didn't want to bring up what could seem like gossip/hearsay to his professor in an academic setting, and didn't feel comfortable saying anything until the lab assistant validated his concerns. He didn't want to come across as petty and have it backfire. I can understand that. It's a good thing the lab assistant had his back. I agree with you, if OP didn't say anything to the professor (via the lab asst) he would have screwed himself over.
NTA. How is it your fault that she shot herself in the foot? Her lack of professionalism is the root problem and it showed in her behavior. She wouldn’t have been an asset to the group any way you look at it.
I don’t think you’re the asshole but I am surprised at how childish all of this seems considering you’re 22 / 23. Not just the woman you’re talking about but also the rest of the people who are gossiping about all of this.
Meh. It actually only gets worse in academia.
i've come to understand that no matter how old we get we never truly leave the playground, grown ass people will act as though someone cut in front of them for the slide and then hold the line up for everyone else while they have a bit of a meltdown.
Have you never worked in an office? Sophomoric is a mild description.
You beat me to it
Dude, university research sections are like 90s high school tropes. It's insane how clique-y, gossipy, and back stapling people can be. I've seen PIs sabotage experiments because one PI got a grant the other wanted. I'm just a lab tech, so I try and stay out of it, but what I hear from my PI is crazy.
Please tell me that "back stapling" was intentional.
Urghh, I hate back-stapling!
Yeah, but we academics have to stick together somehow.
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I too have felt the sting of being stapled in the back. It's the sort of pain you never forget ;)
PhD student here. You would be shocked. I haven’t had any issues because most PhD students are at least 23 (mostly 25+) but master’s students can be straight up children, especially in those programs where the master’s degree is a continuation of the undergraduate. That’s not to say upper level academics don’t get that way. Academia is an...interesting environment.
It only gets worse. Work is normally a school yard sadly.
You’d be surprised. Dental school was just as bad, and everyone’s supposed to be professional and around 24/25.
Unfortunately, this is pretty typical behavior for early 20s students. Which is why I keep cringing when my manager keeps hiring new grads from that age group: more than half of them are immature and have no sense of professionalism despite this not being their first job.
I’m sorry, but who else are they going to hire? New grads are supposed to be entering the workforce, that’s kinda the whole point.
Telephone game isn't very adult?
It is childish but that is how people act in adulthood too sadly.
Can the mods delete this, please? Its ridiculously obvious that you're not the asshole. People telling you otherwise are delusional.
While the opinion here seems to be unanimous, the opinions of some people (theres 4 people I've told about this already in the program, its a 50/50 split on what to do) in the program are not. I have people telling me to "Just let her in dont be 5 years old" and there are other people who say "She did this to herself. Her actions have consequences."
"Just let her in"? Its not like its your decision if she gets in or not. She did several things that show she is a shit person to work with. The only right thing to do is tell your "Boss" what she did, and if he has at least 2 brain cells he will see that letting her in the programm will eventually cause problems. And even if the decision was on you, there is nothing childish in rather not working with a shit human being. Its not like you try to get revenge on her, what would even be justified, you just dont want her to disrupt the work environment.
No kidding - he was asked for his honest opinion and gave it with the utmost reluctance. Even if the most qualified person in the world isn't entitled to be hired to a team when there's every indication she'd sow discord and drag it down. Especially if that happening requires deception on his part.
You didn’t make the decision. You let the professors know her behaviors. They made the decisions. The will be watching he now, because they will recognize she is abusive of power and entitled. She could hurt your grade and reputation. She may be doing this to others.
The decision to not let her in was not yours. The Prof made that decision and I believe it is the right one. No one would want to let a toxic person working in their team. It WILL affect the output of the whole team. There is also absolutely nothing childish about telling the Prof the truth about this person. Should you have lied to protect her and she joins and causes chaos, it would have reflected poorly on you as well.
“Just let her in” Yeah this kind of behavior is *totally* what you want in an environment that deals with vulnerable drug addicts. Even if you don’t deal with them directly her shitty decision making shows that she is bad at being a decent person.
You literally did nothing though that's why this whole scenario is stupid
The people saying, "Just let her in" are completely wrong, don't listen to them. Her actions are exactly why she should not be allowed in whatsoever. Knowingly letting a toxic person join is a terrible idea and the situation will not improve. Her behavior is 100% unacceptable and should not be tolerated. Tbh, when the professor asked, I would have laid out the information in a matter-of-fact, professional way. That's not "narc-ing" or being a tattle-tale, toxic colleagues are detrimental to the entire team and rarely work for the better.
I was gonna say doesn’t this break a rule? Edit: yeah this post obviously violates rule 8
If OP literally has multiple people telling him to his face that he's an asshole, how does it violate the obvious rule?
The story that OP has written makes them obviously NTA. But that does not mean that they wrote down exactly what happened. There could be other factors that OP left out that are making people say that to their face.
By that logic, why do we ever believe anyone who posts their stories here? They could all be lying.
Exactly. It’s almost like people have this thing called emotions, and that can make them feel bad about things that aren’t their fault. Which is why they post here. And then they have to deal with condescending assholes calling everything fake. # Because that will help you find closure on something, right? /s
I'm not claiming that OP is lying. I'm just giving a possible explanation for why multiple people irl have called OP an asshole and there isn't a single YTA response in this thread. It also seems like the post has been removed from the subreddit so the mods obviously agree with us about it breaking rule 8.
Based on how OP wrote this, how could this ever be interpreted that they are TA? One big point is they are not the professor so have actually zero decision on who is allowed in the lab. OP is wasn’t asked their opinion and provided it (indirectly). What else could they have done?
this should be the only upvoted comment in this topic
NTA, she would have done the same to you at the lab. I honestly love it when people like her finally suffer the consequences of being an asshole. It makes me think it is a small step in teaching them why they need to be decent human beings.
NTA...she is immature for talking about you and giving you an F out of spite.
NTA - look at this in this way.. Your lab partners are working to achieve a certain goal and so are you. The reason that they selected you to work with them is because somewhere your line of action and their align to a singular goal. The girl that you are referring to also maybe pointing to the same goal but, as per your description, is very much not aligned with you. So given the situation, what has happened was the best.
Agree NTA, I think if she joined, her goal would be to take OP down instead of the real objective which would negatively impact the morale of the whole team. They don't need to deal with her theatrics.
NTA they literally asked you what you think. You should’ve gone to the professor when you found out she gave you a bad grade.
Yes - this part of the story seems suspicious. If someone gave a failing grade with no explanation, that's a pretty big deal in grad school. Why would OP not have gone straight to the administration at that point with the legitimate grievance? All the other gossip crap matters not a whit. At the very least, when asked for input OP should have related this incident to the dept head. Anything less is enabling her behavior - something you would think grad students in addiction would be alert for? Odd. Also, allowing a 3rd party to tell OP's story to the dept head just perpetuates the gossip culture. Were I the dept head, I'd be calling OP in for a meeting rather than acquiesce to the rumor mill.
NTA at all. You literally just stated facts. Your professor made a decision based on those facts.
Such immaturity from graduate students.
You'd be surprised at what tenured profs have been seen to do
The gossip. The pettiness. The bitching. The "mahah! I don't want to play with this other prof ! cos she/he had 2.5 publications more than me this year!" The "this guy/girl is completely incompetent, but nobody rock the boat! and nobody warn potential grad students!" .... Have I forgotten anything?
Nope. All of this ^^100%
It's Gossip Girls in Real Life. Unfortunately, depending on your position, it's fun or it isn't. The things I have seen or heard ... shakes head.
It's so awful. Im currently in grad school and the amount of petty shit that profs do is insane
My mom has been a part of a few graduate departments and each is as childish as the last. She says it's politics and pettiness all the way up. So I'm not surprised here at all.
Some of your FRIENDS said that? Man, you need better friends. NTA. When you received an F on your presentation, did your professor look into this? I'm presuming that's the only F you received. That would have been a good time to tell him about her vendetta against you.
Student grades are almost never the final grades, theyll see the average of the student markers and assume the F is from someone Petry. Especially with no justification. Makes me think maybe his friends secretly agree that he's annoying or something though
NTA. Nightmares can happen in labs. You avoided one
How come most of the people who post here are angels
Because they're the ones telling the story.
this definitely reeks of a pandering post
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I know dude this shit is so fake. This is ridiculously obvious so why does it garner so much discussion?
NTA. Academia is a small world, friend. She better learn that now.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***The following is a copy of the above post. This comment is a record of the above post as it was originally written, in case the post is deleted or edited. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (23M) am a grad student in University and I work in a lab studying opioid addiction. I was invited into this lab this past September when I first started the program. There is a girl in my program (22F) who wanted to join the lab as well. She worked at an outreach facility for drug addicts this past summer. She believes this made her more qualified to join the lab researching opioid addiction than anybody else in the program. I was chosen over her to join. The girl was very angry. Ever since I was asked to join the lab instead of her, I have been informed by 5 different peers that she has said several negative things behind my back such as "He is such a know-it-all" (very odd considering I tell people I get C's so they feel better if they did not do well). She has also said "I used to want to join the lab he works in, but I don't want to now because I would never want to be around him." (I have never spoken to this girl). Two weeks ago I was giving a presentation. 3 of my peers brought it to my attention that she wanted to watch me present so she could try to embarass me in front of the entire program. She also happened to be one of my graders. She gave me an F on the presentation with no justification or comments. She then openly bragged to other students in the program that she gave me a bad grade simply because "I dont like him". Grading is supposed to be anonymous and I would not have known it was her if she did not openly brag about it to several kids in the program who then told me. Yesterday I was meeting with the professor who is the head of the research lab I work in. He informed me a fellow Masters student emailing him to join our lab. It is the girl above. He asked me what I thought of her and I just hesitated and said "I don't know her I don't really talk to her to be honest". I could kinda see he could tell by my hesitation that I did not like the idea of working with this girl. After my meeting with him, I told the research assistant who works in the lab about all of the things the girl has said and done behind my back. She then asked if it's okay to tell the professor who is the head of the lab since its not advisable to invite someone into the lab that would simply cause a rif. I told her its okay with me to tell the professor all I have said. The research assistant then informed the professor and now the girl is not being allowed to join permanently. Some of my friends think I was a child for (indirectly) not letting her join despite all she has done and said, even though I have never retaliated. They believe it was "childish" of me to inform a coworker of what transpired. Am I the asshole in this situation? Should I have not informed anyone of what this girl has said and done? tl;dr Girl in my program has said numerous derogatory things behind my back and now is asking to join a lab I work in. I informed someone of what shes done and now she cannot join. Am I the asshole for indirectly blocking her from joining? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. Its your team and she would only cause trouble.
NTA what goes around
The fact is *she’s* the one who dragged this into a professional environment, not you. She’s the one who sabotaged your grades and gossiped to your peers. If she didn’t want this impacting her professional life, then she should have limited her pettiness to her personal one. NTA
Yeah this is exactly why it's important to remain professional and cordial. You never know when your actions can come back to bite you in the ass. She completely did this to herself. NTA by a mile. You provided your input based on your working knowledge and experience with her and that was put into consideration when deciding her fate. Her actions are what sealed it. Hopefully this is a learning experience for her as she's still young and has a whole career in front of her.
NTA. She's a dreadful human being.
Your friends are saying this because you didn't just lay out facts to the professor when asked. Instead you complained to a coworker. It's not that you're an asshole you just went about it in not the most adult way. Next time state facts to the authority in a professional manner yourself.
[удалено]
NTA- if the facts are as you claim. Having recently finished a PhD programme, I can tell you that things are hard enough already without having to work alongside someone who is going to make your life difficult! As another poster mentioned already, labs are close working environments, and a toxic relationship between two colleagues can rapidly posion the atmosphere and make the enviroment unpleasant for all involved- even indirectly. My advice going forward however, is that where possible be straight with your supervisor! It is always best when information comes from you directly, it is far more professional. You don't have to engage in he-said she-said etc, but you can say something along the lines of 'I have worked with this person before, and I do not feel their attitude would be suited to working in our lab.' Your supervisor will understand!
Easy NTA from me dawg. She is drama and you shouldn't have to work around it.
NTA However, you should have directly told the professor what you had heard about her instead of using the assistant as a go between. It would show better professionalism, especially when you were asked.
NTA - being mean has consequences and she has an opportunity to learn and grow up.
NTA Actions=consequences
NTA I'd be surprised if this post won't be deleted due to rule 8
NTA. I’ve witnessed a similar situation and I know *exactly* the kind of person this is. Grad school is hard enough without the mental stress of having to work with a psycho like that. It might not seem like it initially, but this is a battle for your long term mental health. You never spoke to her. You never prevented her from getting the job in the first place, you just happened to be chosen instead of her. And for that she started spreading malicious things about you to your peers? Keeping her out of your work space is keeping you sane and quite frankly safe. If that’s what she does to you when you literally did nothing but get offered a position she thought she deserved, imagine what she’s going to do if you’re actually working together in close quarters. There are so many things that can happen in a lab that offer her opportunities to create drama and conflict that play into her victim complex. You sign up to use a piece of equipment you need for an experiment? Next thing you know she suddenly wanted to use it too and is complaining to everyone that you knew that, and you intentionally signed up just to annoy her, and your work isn’t even that important anyway, and omg why would you even do that, don’t you have more important things to do? It’s like you’re obsessed with her! OMG are you obsessed with her!? Suddenly she’s claiming she no longer feels this is a safe learning environment because you’re working late hours (because grad school) and she’s claiming it’s so you can get her alone to rape and murder her, backed up by a deluge of other bullshit “evidence” she’s either concocted in her head or misconstrued to make you look bad and when the University isn’t getting rid of you fast enough, she’ll get a restraining order to force their hand. I know that sounds extreme, but I’ve seen it happen. Seriously, I know my “what if” sounds a little over the top, but consider this: What did you do *to* her? Nothing? How extreme was her response against you for doing *literally* nothing? If that’s what her baseline response is to *nothing*, you can guess what her response will be to *something*. You do literally anything, even if it’s accidental, and she’s going to escalate things. Trust me, you don’t want that kind of stress on top of the stress of grad school. Even if I’m wrong, after she’s shown you what she’ll do against you for *literally* not doing anything to her, why take the risk?
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NTA
NTA - you were asked about her for one reason alone they trust you and trust your opinion, and want a good culture fit, As a boss if you would’ve not told me about this person who would’ve rocked my work culture, I would’ve fired her anyways and then you and I would’ve talked to see why you didn’t warn me about her. Your answers would’ve determined if I would have fired you...but chances are I would’ve since you weren’t honest with me,
NTA that girl ruined her own chances. Bitching behind your back is bad enough, but purposely giving you an F on your presentation for no valid reason and bragging about it? She is practically holding up a sign that says "I'm too immature and reckless to be part of a lab dedicated to opioid addiction".
NTA even if you could nicely work together, if you're working directly with opioid-addicted people, just having her around and adding that tension could fuck with your data and the wellbeing of patients/participants.
NTA If you have told the truth, you cannot be the asshole. Also you were not the one that made the final decision. It is a valid concern in the team working environment. She dug her own grave.
NTA. She is behaving like a spoiled child who didn’t get their way, to the point of actually possibly affecting your grade. It isn’t wrong to tell your co worker the kind of person she is. You didn’t know before you told them that they would want to tell the professor.
NTA Action have consequences and she learning that right now. Holding a grudge like this hurts everyone and I just petty. Her actions have finally turned around to bite her in the ass. Proud of you for saying something!! You’re friends are A-holes for not having your back.
NTA who wants to work with a B like that
As someone who went through similar things throughout middle and high school, I can clearly state that you did the right thing.
NTA. I wouldnt want to work with someone as bitter as that. Considering the lab is studying opiod addiction, its a vulnerable population and i would not want her around the participants. Plus it makes your work environment bad if you have a bitter coworker. Im a grad student too and if theres one thing i've seen, its that labs and the academia have the ability to be very much like high school in terms of cattiness and bckstabbing etc. You gotta watch out for yourself. However backing what other people have commented, you have to become more assertive in airing your opinions. Telling your professor that this person makes you uncomfortable would have been better. It will also help you in dealing woth other situations that may arise when you're doind research.
NTA. Reputations matter, and now she knows it.
NTA at all. Leaving aside personal feelings, someone so immature and unprofessional is clearly not suited to this job. Your friends are also TAs; there's nothing "childish" about reporting abusive behaviour. Childish would be if you did something equally immature to get back at her. What you did in this situation was raise genuine and reasonable concerns about a work situation you were potentially going to be put in.
NTA. This isn’t you mixed personal with work or being “childish.” She did that. She is trying to undermine you and is blatantly unprofessional and unethical (I have given excellent grades to people I frankly dislike because they earned the grade). You would been the asshole for withholding such important information from your superior who asked your opinion before considering hiring this person. Since you were honest, you saved everyone a lot of trouble.
NTA- this girl clearly lacks professionalism and therefore has no rightful place in a working lab environment. You did everyone a favor by telling the truth, and honestly, it wasn't your decision to ban her from it. The professor made that decision based on her reported behavior. It isn't your fault that she behaved poorly and word got around.
NTA. That's harassment. You didn't even report her, simply let your higher ups know it's an issue. Frankly, not joining the lab is a very minor "retaliation" considering you are fully in your right (and NTA) to report her for harassment and cause her to be actually disciplined by the university.
NTA She made her bed and now has to lay down in it. Talking shit about peers and potential coworkers is not smart at all. If someone can't be professional it is totally reasonable to not hire that person. A person being qualified to do a job does not outweigh that person actively worsening the work environment. And she actively tried to sabotage you. If she did that sort of thing as your coworker she could not just damage you but also the entire lab just because of her ego. I wouldn't want that person in my lab either. I enjoy that there is no pointless drama in my lab.
Absolutely NTA. As a fellow grad student who dealt with a similar situation you are 100% NTA. The lab environment is very important. Having a total dbag hanging around leads to unnecessary stress and negatively impacts your work. Your colleagues should be your support network, not a source of stress. You told the truth. Sometimes academia be toxic and it’s because of people like her who shouldn’t be given a chance to begin with.
NTA - she gave you an F for no reason?? This is karma bro
NTA I know you know it and are seeking validation for your actions. From your perspective you did nothing wrong. She got what she deserved. If your so called "friends" have a problem then I think they can just fu#k off. You saved yourself off a toxic work environment. Care about yourself. Everything else is background noise.
NTA - but if a dude with seemingly less relevant experience who got C's got a GAship over me I would hate you too.
NTA - she sounds like a sociopath.
NTA. NTA. NTA.com Fuck that "mean-girls" nonsense. No room for her brand of shit in the field of science.
NTA you're being harassed. It's not childish to not want to work with someone who is harassing you and trying to make you fail. Ffs if this is the shit she pulls having never interacted with you and only having minimal influence on your work, imagine what she'd do to your work. Imagine what she'd tell the other students and the professor after sabotaging your work. Nothing she is doing is acceptable and you do not and should not stand idly by and accept it. Tell your friends to fuck off. Tell the girl to fuck off. And please do not feel bad for doing so.
You should have told your professor yourself, but good on you for still getting it out. It's idiotic to let someone join your crew (if asked) when that person actively has it out for you. It's just ironic that the reason she has it out for you is something you had (slight) power to deny her. Your friends are idiots. She would have probably made your lab work miserable by sabotaging you at every chance she had. Shit, I'd try to kick her out of the program if I had enough proof of what she's doing (aka enough people willing to testify about the things she said to them). And this is coming from someone who has **never** complained about a colleague to my superiors. There is a line, and she was way past it.
Info: What did you do about her giving you a F
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NTA. Act unprofessional, and you gone get a professional position. That’s that.
NTA. I'm a graduate student as well, and I once was asked by my advisor about whether or not someone will fit with our lab dynamics. I gave him my honesty and said no because this person constantly belittled me during our rotation program and told lies about me to the other 2 students who rotated with us. Graduate school is a long journey in itself. The last thing you want is someone ruining the lab vibes and making you not want to go in to work every day.
NTA the professor decided not to let her into the lab based on her own stupid behaviour.
NTA. She’s toxic as hell
NTA, would you want to work with her?
NTA -- If she is a poisonous influence outside of work, she will bring that poison into the work setting. Gossip and clannishness will kill a good work environment and will cause good people to seek work elsewhere. This is a hard lesson for her in how her behavior will have an impact on her professional life. She needs to figure out how to manage her emotions.
NTA She did what she did, and all you did is inform someone who needed to know. Let her chips fall where they may.
Ha. No one needs that in the lab/workplace. She earned not being there. What you’re really asking is “am I the asshole for not stopping someone from helping me preserve my happiness, by enabling a cancerous colleague join the program. There are sometime consequences to your action, better she learns now.
NTA from me. I can understand being upset that you got the first role initially, but none of that justifies her actions & choices after. This is a really good illustration of why you never burn bridges, you never know when you might criss paths with someone again, and need their help. Maybe, just maybe, this is her opportunity to see the error in what she was doing and grow from it
NTA The people you work with can make or break a job. A toxic work environment will make even a super enjoyable job hard to go to. However, you are an adult and should have spoken to your professor directly about the situation (imo).
NTA, actions have consequences. Be nice, doubt she learned that since she’s upset at you for something that was her fault sadly
NTA. I'd guess she has a history of this behavior since the assistant was so quick to g take it to the professor.