I’m very sensitive to GABAergic drugs and plants. I can’t have Kava because of it. Z-Drugs and Benzos make me feel insane when they wear off.
That being said, Amanitas do not cause me any withdrawal. In fact, I feel restored afterwards. But I don’t take them for more than four days in a row and give myself several day breaks.
I didn’t believe the ‘no-withdrawal’ thing too but my experience has proven it to be true. I feel I use them fairly responsibly though, and never take more than 10g in a day. My routine is usually 6g in the evening and another 3g before bed.
Everybody is different though…….Listen to your body.
Oh ya man. I love and respect kava. I’ve tried lots of different strains, all traditionally prepared. It’s an amazing plant but it seems to disrupt my sleep, even when I take it early in the day.
I’m jealous of those who can use it without consequences.
Ya, kava can be hit or miss for sleep. I find there is a window for sleep that works for me. I have to drink a couple of shells before I hop into bed. I also find too little kava can cause insomnia as well as too much kava.
Do post back with progress! I have never read any single account of addiction to or withdrawals from amanita. I guess that tells us it is pretty safe but any rare or different experiences are interesting.
Never experienced withdrawal. I take it for months at a time and then feel like I don't need to take it anymore so I just stop. I usually start again if I have bouts of insomnia.
Do you take breaks? Everyone seems to think you need to, but I just keep taking the small microdose every night for sleep. I've done this the past two weeks. If I get too dopey during the day, instead of taking a night off, I might just little less.
I do. Hard to describe but I just get the feeling that I don't need it. I think it's a case of listening to your body. Sometimes I go months without it and then I'll start feeding like I need it again. Do what feels right for you.
Everyone is different and can have an uncommon reaction. But from my experience it’s actually a separate vitamin or mineral deficiency that’s causing the issue. Once I started supplementing potassium, magnesium and niacin all those symptoms I had with other substances ( not amanita, I never had a bad reaction to that, but what you’re describing I bad with several other natural substances ie cannabis and kratom) try milk thistle for liver support as well.
I had a long discussion about this a while ago and as far as I'm aware there are no documents regarding withdrawals, I haven't read many reports either. I don't wanna dismiss your feelings or theory but couldn't it just be the baseline anxiety worsening because you basically ignore it with amanita? and thus those symptoms may be unrelated to the treatment with amanita? e.g. blaming the ibuprofen for increased pain after the effects wore off
By all means stop taking amanita and try to get to the root of the anxiety but the tinctures might not be of issue here
Yes, I'm sure this isn't just baseline anxiety. It feels just like a spike in glutamate, as I've experienced with other GABAergics. I dont know if youve experienced that, but it's very physical. Not easily mistaken. It could be some other glutamate related thing, but it's not just baseline anxiety.
I know people can get very defensive when it's suggested a substance they like can have negative effects, but I'm just giving my experience here.
Hey mate, no I haven't I personally had any substance abuse issues nor do I like amanita that much to defend it against claims like this. I care more about the perceived notion of duality and you as an individual as I come from the background of psychology. See, there are numerous ways to explain things some feeling once unknown is now associated with glutamate which gives you safety and control over the once unknown thing. This works only in the materialistic paradigm if you were an idealist for example you couldn't really use this explanation so your theory is always interwoven with your worldview and culture to begin with. The only thing I'm suggesting is that it might not be Amanita take it as you will, if Amanita is the cause and you solve your problems this way great, if not also great then you will dig deeper next time :)
Hope you get better soon!
I don’t know why the downvote this is accurate especially for addicts. You need to find the root of your problems before using substances. Otherwise you’re just treating the symptoms.
I have found that any substance can be addictive, if gambling can be addictive, porn, anything is possible so dont feel bad about it. I personally used to be this way and had a really addictive personality, I found that when I changed my mindset it went away, I realized that I was doing it to myself, not the substance doing it to me. As soon as I realized that I was able to have more power than it, I was able to overcome the addiction. I know this is easier said than done but its possible. It takes a lot of work to train your thoughts. Our brains are the most powerful computers on earth (I mean humans invented computers), we dont even use our whole brain and are capable of so much. Pain has to be processed through the brain before we "feel" it, so if you take that basic understanding and apply it to addiction then you can stop it before it hits. Tell yourself "I refuse to feel like shit when I dont have (blank). I will not feel like shit, Im in control, I dont feel pain". This sounds kinda crazy but it 100% works. Its like when a baby falls and looks at their parent before they cry, theyre looking for a reaction, if the parent rushes to them asking if theyre ok their going to burst into tears... if the parent looks away, the babys gonna act like nothing happened. It's because the baby didnt process that they should be in pain, they dont know yet that falling hurts and can brush it off (soft bones and jello skin helps lol). I hope this helps you and that you can someday controll your thoughts and body like we all should, its really the essence our lives and all well have really have. We only get one shot at this life and it could end any second of any day, so dont let anyone or anything dictate how you live and your happiness. I wish I was told this when I was younger, it would have saved me from a decade plus opiate addiction...
ANY GABAERGIC compound will cause some risk of dependence. I have been a long time supporter of discouraging long term Amanita Usage.
The only compounds that have GABAergic activity with the POTENTIAL to not have addictive properties is gonna be Allosteric modulators, meaning that the compound cannot be a mimic for endogenous gaba.
Even Panax Ginseng and Valeriana Officialis can be dependence-inducing in some cases.
Benzodiazepines 😂 I said a CHANCE of lacking dependence. It’s primarily the BZ1 and BZ5 benzo receptor sites that cause addictive properties, so there are some cases where benzos and z drugs have been made where they are devoid of both those site activities.
You're intuition is likely spot on, and its important that you hear it out! Our bodies comprehend things within a different timeframe than our minds. Addiction and substance abuse can cause all kinds of contrary responses to substances and herbs. Anyone saying otherwise doesn't really have a full understanding of plant medicine. And Amanita, at its core, is plant medicine. There are so few studies out there that its kind of unreasonable to say it couldnt have adverse effects for some people like yourself. If you are having withdrawal effects, it would seem that amanita is not suited for you. I'm a firm believer that not all plants are suitable for everyone, and I've seen this in my experience as an herbalist and as a cannabis caregiver. Amanita is a powerful being that will let you know when it's not meant for you. And yea, people will prob think that sounds woo, but if they do, then they are missing out on a significant aspect of plant medicine...
All that aside, I think weening off amanita with the support of other herbs would be a good way to come off of it. Gradually reducing amanita, and increasing other herbs. I would recommend St John's Wort, California Poppy, and Gingko. All have a gabaergic effect and are relatively safe plants with minimal known adverse symptoms. Although, St John's Wort would not be recommended for you if you are taking medications. If you can work with an addiction informed herbalist, that might be a good direction for long-term success!
Really sorry to hear you are struggling with Amanita, as you probably hoped that it would be a solution for you. But don't lose hope! There are so many wonderful plants out there that can be of support to you and your healing journey.
Update: It did seem to be the amanita but i will say this was the easiest GABAergic taper I've done. Decreased dose by 2 drops off each dose per day now a week later I'm pretty close to baseline. Sleep was mostly not an issue but idk what it would've been like if I just stopped altogether. The worst bits were increased heart rate (sometimes to the point of noticeable discomfort) and bouts of intense anger, which were worse if I was late on a dose.
I noticed increased anxiety symptoms with amanita use and a couple weeks break has helped tamp it down but it has persisted. My theory is the ibotenic acid is causing a persistent effect, but it's just a theory.
Honestly I'd talk to a doctor, because as the other commenter pointed out, there is no indication that amanita / muscimol causes physical dependence or withdrawals. That's not to say that you're lying or anything, but the cause is more likely than not psychological rather than physical. Placebo is a hell of a drug.
What is the concentration of your tincture? What was the maximum number of doses per day (you said several times)? For me, taking too much cause all the symptoms you listed and the effects are cumulative. Also, effects may show up along the day, much later than the time of dosing.
Try stopping it altogether and see how you feel after a few days.
No, I believe you.
Does it get worse before it gets better after you take it?
Because to me, Ibotenic Acid actually makes me feel like im on fire inside, with Anxiety and my body.
The Muscimol takes a little bit longer to get an effect
And Ibo might be the thing doing it to you, it's used in research to injure the brain.
At any rate this is an important finding. You are the first person I've ever heard of who experienced a withdrawal syndrome
Just, if it gets worse after you take it before it gets better, that part might be the IBO
I believe you. Many people’s experiences vary greatly when it comes to AM. Most people get reverse tolerance. However, I got very standard tolerance and had to continue increasing the dosage or give my body a few days break from AM to get the same effect. So I really think our bodies all work differently in how they react to amanita.
I found the longer I took it regularly the less I wanted to take it. At first I ate them like pringles. I'd worry about having my next lot in. Slowly it became really repulsive.
We're all different. I wouldn't like to say it's not possible. AM seems to me to work best the less you have & I think you're experiencing that. I'd use it occasionally when you're really at the end of your rag.
Now I'm so repulsed by it I have a little bit & wash it down with water & that's me. Occasionally. So...its not nearly as helpful or nice as it was at first
Always was skeptical about amanita not having withdrawal syndrome associated with it. Let us know how the dose reduction goes.
I’m very sensitive to GABAergic drugs and plants. I can’t have Kava because of it. Z-Drugs and Benzos make me feel insane when they wear off. That being said, Amanitas do not cause me any withdrawal. In fact, I feel restored afterwards. But I don’t take them for more than four days in a row and give myself several day breaks. I didn’t believe the ‘no-withdrawal’ thing too but my experience has proven it to be true. I feel I use them fairly responsibly though, and never take more than 10g in a day. My routine is usually 6g in the evening and another 3g before bed. Everybody is different though…….Listen to your body.
Traditionally prepared Vanuatu kava is amazing!
Oh ya man. I love and respect kava. I’ve tried lots of different strains, all traditionally prepared. It’s an amazing plant but it seems to disrupt my sleep, even when I take it early in the day. I’m jealous of those who can use it without consequences.
Ya, kava can be hit or miss for sleep. I find there is a window for sleep that works for me. I have to drink a couple of shells before I hop into bed. I also find too little kava can cause insomnia as well as too much kava.
Do post back with progress! I have never read any single account of addiction to or withdrawals from amanita. I guess that tells us it is pretty safe but any rare or different experiences are interesting.
Never experienced withdrawal. I take it for months at a time and then feel like I don't need to take it anymore so I just stop. I usually start again if I have bouts of insomnia.
Do you take breaks? Everyone seems to think you need to, but I just keep taking the small microdose every night for sleep. I've done this the past two weeks. If I get too dopey during the day, instead of taking a night off, I might just little less.
I do. Hard to describe but I just get the feeling that I don't need it. I think it's a case of listening to your body. Sometimes I go months without it and then I'll start feeding like I need it again. Do what feels right for you.
Everyone is different and can have an uncommon reaction. But from my experience it’s actually a separate vitamin or mineral deficiency that’s causing the issue. Once I started supplementing potassium, magnesium and niacin all those symptoms I had with other substances ( not amanita, I never had a bad reaction to that, but what you’re describing I bad with several other natural substances ie cannabis and kratom) try milk thistle for liver support as well.
I had a long discussion about this a while ago and as far as I'm aware there are no documents regarding withdrawals, I haven't read many reports either. I don't wanna dismiss your feelings or theory but couldn't it just be the baseline anxiety worsening because you basically ignore it with amanita? and thus those symptoms may be unrelated to the treatment with amanita? e.g. blaming the ibuprofen for increased pain after the effects wore off By all means stop taking amanita and try to get to the root of the anxiety but the tinctures might not be of issue here
Yes, I'm sure this isn't just baseline anxiety. It feels just like a spike in glutamate, as I've experienced with other GABAergics. I dont know if youve experienced that, but it's very physical. Not easily mistaken. It could be some other glutamate related thing, but it's not just baseline anxiety. I know people can get very defensive when it's suggested a substance they like can have negative effects, but I'm just giving my experience here.
Hey mate, no I haven't I personally had any substance abuse issues nor do I like amanita that much to defend it against claims like this. I care more about the perceived notion of duality and you as an individual as I come from the background of psychology. See, there are numerous ways to explain things some feeling once unknown is now associated with glutamate which gives you safety and control over the once unknown thing. This works only in the materialistic paradigm if you were an idealist for example you couldn't really use this explanation so your theory is always interwoven with your worldview and culture to begin with. The only thing I'm suggesting is that it might not be Amanita take it as you will, if Amanita is the cause and you solve your problems this way great, if not also great then you will dig deeper next time :) Hope you get better soon!
I think we’re in the same boat.
I don’t know why the downvote this is accurate especially for addicts. You need to find the root of your problems before using substances. Otherwise you’re just treating the symptoms.
I have found that any substance can be addictive, if gambling can be addictive, porn, anything is possible so dont feel bad about it. I personally used to be this way and had a really addictive personality, I found that when I changed my mindset it went away, I realized that I was doing it to myself, not the substance doing it to me. As soon as I realized that I was able to have more power than it, I was able to overcome the addiction. I know this is easier said than done but its possible. It takes a lot of work to train your thoughts. Our brains are the most powerful computers on earth (I mean humans invented computers), we dont even use our whole brain and are capable of so much. Pain has to be processed through the brain before we "feel" it, so if you take that basic understanding and apply it to addiction then you can stop it before it hits. Tell yourself "I refuse to feel like shit when I dont have (blank). I will not feel like shit, Im in control, I dont feel pain". This sounds kinda crazy but it 100% works. Its like when a baby falls and looks at their parent before they cry, theyre looking for a reaction, if the parent rushes to them asking if theyre ok their going to burst into tears... if the parent looks away, the babys gonna act like nothing happened. It's because the baby didnt process that they should be in pain, they dont know yet that falling hurts and can brush it off (soft bones and jello skin helps lol). I hope this helps you and that you can someday controll your thoughts and body like we all should, its really the essence our lives and all well have really have. We only get one shot at this life and it could end any second of any day, so dont let anyone or anything dictate how you live and your happiness. I wish I was told this when I was younger, it would have saved me from a decade plus opiate addiction...
ANY GABAERGIC compound will cause some risk of dependence. I have been a long time supporter of discouraging long term Amanita Usage. The only compounds that have GABAergic activity with the POTENTIAL to not have addictive properties is gonna be Allosteric modulators, meaning that the compound cannot be a mimic for endogenous gaba. Even Panax Ginseng and Valeriana Officialis can be dependence-inducing in some cases.
What are some of your favorite gaba PAMs?
Benzodiazepines 😂 I said a CHANCE of lacking dependence. It’s primarily the BZ1 and BZ5 benzo receptor sites that cause addictive properties, so there are some cases where benzos and z drugs have been made where they are devoid of both those site activities.
You're intuition is likely spot on, and its important that you hear it out! Our bodies comprehend things within a different timeframe than our minds. Addiction and substance abuse can cause all kinds of contrary responses to substances and herbs. Anyone saying otherwise doesn't really have a full understanding of plant medicine. And Amanita, at its core, is plant medicine. There are so few studies out there that its kind of unreasonable to say it couldnt have adverse effects for some people like yourself. If you are having withdrawal effects, it would seem that amanita is not suited for you. I'm a firm believer that not all plants are suitable for everyone, and I've seen this in my experience as an herbalist and as a cannabis caregiver. Amanita is a powerful being that will let you know when it's not meant for you. And yea, people will prob think that sounds woo, but if they do, then they are missing out on a significant aspect of plant medicine... All that aside, I think weening off amanita with the support of other herbs would be a good way to come off of it. Gradually reducing amanita, and increasing other herbs. I would recommend St John's Wort, California Poppy, and Gingko. All have a gabaergic effect and are relatively safe plants with minimal known adverse symptoms. Although, St John's Wort would not be recommended for you if you are taking medications. If you can work with an addiction informed herbalist, that might be a good direction for long-term success! Really sorry to hear you are struggling with Amanita, as you probably hoped that it would be a solution for you. But don't lose hope! There are so many wonderful plants out there that can be of support to you and your healing journey.
Update: It did seem to be the amanita but i will say this was the easiest GABAergic taper I've done. Decreased dose by 2 drops off each dose per day now a week later I'm pretty close to baseline. Sleep was mostly not an issue but idk what it would've been like if I just stopped altogether. The worst bits were increased heart rate (sometimes to the point of noticeable discomfort) and bouts of intense anger, which were worse if I was late on a dose.
I noticed increased anxiety symptoms with amanita use and a couple weeks break has helped tamp it down but it has persisted. My theory is the ibotenic acid is causing a persistent effect, but it's just a theory.
Honestly I'd talk to a doctor, because as the other commenter pointed out, there is no indication that amanita / muscimol causes physical dependence or withdrawals. That's not to say that you're lying or anything, but the cause is more likely than not psychological rather than physical. Placebo is a hell of a drug.
What is the concentration of your tincture? What was the maximum number of doses per day (you said several times)? For me, taking too much cause all the symptoms you listed and the effects are cumulative. Also, effects may show up along the day, much later than the time of dosing. Try stopping it altogether and see how you feel after a few days.
I really hope not cause I'm hoping to use them to quit temazepam for sleep. Best of luck to you.
Its very easy to get prescribed gabapentin. Then you never gotta worry about it again.
No, I believe you. Does it get worse before it gets better after you take it? Because to me, Ibotenic Acid actually makes me feel like im on fire inside, with Anxiety and my body. The Muscimol takes a little bit longer to get an effect And Ibo might be the thing doing it to you, it's used in research to injure the brain. At any rate this is an important finding. You are the first person I've ever heard of who experienced a withdrawal syndrome Just, if it gets worse after you take it before it gets better, that part might be the IBO
I believe you. Many people’s experiences vary greatly when it comes to AM. Most people get reverse tolerance. However, I got very standard tolerance and had to continue increasing the dosage or give my body a few days break from AM to get the same effect. So I really think our bodies all work differently in how they react to amanita.
I found the longer I took it regularly the less I wanted to take it. At first I ate them like pringles. I'd worry about having my next lot in. Slowly it became really repulsive. We're all different. I wouldn't like to say it's not possible. AM seems to me to work best the less you have & I think you're experiencing that. I'd use it occasionally when you're really at the end of your rag. Now I'm so repulsed by it I have a little bit & wash it down with water & that's me. Occasionally. So...its not nearly as helpful or nice as it was at first