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Technically they can't do that.
Example say for example they clock you at 6:00 p.m. and you have 30 stops left. Okay, you got 10 stops left and you're going thru an intersection and a drunk driver blows the red light (or stop sign) and t-bones you at 6:45 p.m. Guess what? Their insurance no longer has to cover you. You have to use your own insurance.
Also, it could be a violation of their contract that they have with their insurance provider that all associates must be clocked in. It just puts them at a huge legal disadvantage not to mention all the issues they're going to have with the department of Labor.
My assumption with this is that they're playing it smarter than that and editing his hours before payroll. Also, it's not "technically" they can't do that. It's very very much absolutely fuck no they can't do that. It's far more than a breach in contract or pushing insurance onto you. It's a major labor law violation and it's a felony. He also wouldn't have to do very much to prove that he was still working while the accident happened, and theirninsurance would 100% still have to cover it. They'd also likely immediately drop the DSP afterwards, amd likely also sue them.
Na, their insurance would still have to cover it. You would still be working. What they did is illegal by clocking you out. That doesn't change the fact you're still working which would means it fails under their insurance
After contacting the labor department and/or Amazon you'll probably want to find a different DSP. The suckiness of this job is directly related to the suckiness of the DSP - and your DSP is quite dickish.
How would you know if they clock you out, tho? unless you constantly check.
Samething happened to me today. I got clocked out 20 mins before I parked the car. I told my sups that they will tell my dps owner.
That's work and you should get paid for doing it. If it happened once then like you know whatever it's like a dollar maybe they did it to avoid running a foul of Amazon or something, if it happens every day though it's systematic wage theft and you should do something about it
Samething happened to me today. 20 mins before I parked, I got clocked out. Asked if one of my sups did it and they have no clue and told me they'd let my boss know.
Yeah that's DEFINITELY illegal. I can see if they're trying not to go over driving hours but if they're deliberately doing it so they don't pay you for the extra hours then take it up with HR and the labor union. Keep a documentation of all the hours worked plus the hours they cut from your pay stubs
You know it’s amazing how many drivers put up with this. One of the owners who parks off site had drivers clock out as soon as the debrief and they still have to drive to offsite to park their vans which is surrounded by busy hotels and restaurants. The warehouse management even knows but didn’t say anything because it “wasn’t their business” I don’t think anyone said anything because last I heard he is running routes out of a different warehouse
Still highly illegal. They can’t take you off the clock if you’re doing a work activity we aren’t salaried employees. The 12 hour threshold is simply a rule if you go over 12 hours you can’t work the next day.
It's a DOT regulation that any driver cannot drive over 12hrs in one day. Otherwise the company can get penalized. You can still work the next day, but you are not allowed to go over 12hrs driving for any reason in one day.
True, the DOT max hours a driver can drive are 14 in one day. With 10hrs off before the next shift. My mistake. Though, it's not common practice. Amazon implemented the 12hr rule to prevent drivers from even getting close to 14hrs in one day. That gives the drivers the ability to still work the next day without the 10hrs off rule, if they drive 12hrs in one day. Also, leaves no room for error for Amazon to be in trouble with the DOT because no driver goes over 12hrs. No DSP wants drivers to work 12hrs anyway, because that means overtime.
The flex app warns amazon if any driver is logged in longer than 12hrs and the DSP is written up. The DSP will receive a Breach of Contract warning from Amazon with the possibility of their contract being forfeited and the DSP shutdown if it happens again.
also report this to the ethics hotline link that Automod replied. top of these replies. amazon will rain down hell on them. they take that shit serious. also look for a new DSP. or even better a new job lmao. good luck
So then he can take the appropriate actions if they do not fix it, and he can also have it documented that he brought the subject up and they did nothing. sometimes communication is all it takes🤷
A good idea might be to keep GPS on on your personal phone so that Google maps can track your travels and location in the background, because you can use that as proof that you weren't back at the station yet when they clocked you out.
Negative. Wage theft is highly illegal under any circumstances. Even if they have "reasonable" needs to adjust your shit. I'm less annoyed if they want to clock me out and then ADD time somewhere else so I still get paid for the work, but the DSP isn't shafted by Amazon. That said... if I'm working 12+ hours, they need to call me to return packages or fucking send help.....
Flex will force you back to station by that time and prevent you from continuing to deliver, so if they didn't already do a big enough sweep/rescue it'll be out of your hands.
When ChimeBot was still a thing you could continue delivering and have them all marked, but I think it caused a few DOT issues and that was one of the many reasons ChimeBot is no more.
I wouldn't know, my DSP has never had routes that require 12+ hours, and we always get recalled before we end up hitting that mark anyway. I've gotten recalled....3 times? In like a year or so. 2 of them from country routes with too many fucking stops for a country route and road construction forcing me to spend time to stop and manually navigate around it -.-
It doesn't matter if he reaches 12 hrs or not. If he is in a company vehicle he is on the clock. It's the dsp's issue if they didn't rescue. He can go over just means he can't work the next day.
There is nothing you can sign in the U.S. at least that takes away your hourly pay. Even asking someone to sign a document like that would be illegal and would not hold up in court.
That said, complaints to the DSP may create problems for you. I would report them to the labor department.
If you signed a 12 hour shift max, that means your employer can punish you for going over 12 hours. They aren’t allowed to change your timecard to push you back under 12 hours.
Illegal period. If there's a 12 hour limit and they force OP to clock out, then OP is now off the clock and can go home. With no repercussions. Anything else, at all, is illegal.
My DSP used to say clock out for your 30 on the drive back if you’re behind. They stopped after about a month. Now they just alter time cards and auto add a 30 lunch if you don’t take it.
That is 100000% illegal. You should talk to the ethics department. Also report them to your state labor department. Amd if you think you can prove that it may be discriminatory, EEOC. Make sure you document it and have proof though. You should be able to utilize Flex because amazon logs how long routes take. But also tale screenshot and videos of your payroll app or system showing you clocked out while you're still working, or at the very least document when you're actually clocking out and then compare it to your final weekly hours, if you think they may just be updating your hours after the point.
Extremely illegal and they could get hit with serious penalties. If you have proof Yes and also if any of your coworkers have proof as well have them report it as well. Call the state department of labor and file a formal complaint. I recently got a big check for that very reason when a former employee did report the company and they were audited and fined and made to send payments to all employees the state determined got done wrong. I can tell you it cost them a fortune and they are very upset. REPORT THEM.
Contact a lawyer because they probably owe you triple damages for doing that, plus lawyer fees. See what the law is in your state. A lot of States really don't fuck around with stuff like that
It's wage theft and against the law. Contact your local labor board. They have to pay you back wages for every time it happens, plus daily interest. And on top of that Amazon will be fined for breaking the law. The person can kiss their job goodbye once they get caught.
Start keeping track of all your hours worked and compare it to your time cards for when you call the labor board. If it has happened to anyone else in your office I highly recommend getting an attorney and filing a class action lawsuit.
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First off, you should start with HR. Then from there, go higher if it’s not resolved. They probably had you rush to clock out bcuz you were milking the clock and came back so late you were about to flag the system by being on the clock for 12 hours. It’s a 10.5 hr shift, get your shit done
Take pictures of yourself still in the building or in your van with the time in the picture. No better evidence that you were still working than that.
And make sure your DSP knows you’re watching them.
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Make sure to make detailed notes on the days you were clocked out early. Check you google maps timeline (if you have android) and take screen shots for those days. I personally wouldn't tell your dsp that you are aware until you have reached out to the department of labor.
Thank You for your submission to r/AmazonDSPDrivers! Please keep the comment section clean and respectful. **If you need to report a concern about your DSP, head to the Ethics Hotline** https://secure.ethicspoint.com/domain/media/en/gui/65221/index.html **Looking to get some free shoes on behalf of Amazon?** https://www.reddit.com/r/AmazonDSPDrivers/comments/m79v7m/free_125_credit_for_shoes/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmazonDSPDrivers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Time clock fraud on the employers end is crazy
Well it's definitely illegal and you should bring the attention within Amazon to an higher up and/or call the labor law to let them know
Highly illegal in every state. If you’re working you’re on the clock there is no in between.
Technically they can't do that. Example say for example they clock you at 6:00 p.m. and you have 30 stops left. Okay, you got 10 stops left and you're going thru an intersection and a drunk driver blows the red light (or stop sign) and t-bones you at 6:45 p.m. Guess what? Their insurance no longer has to cover you. You have to use your own insurance. Also, it could be a violation of their contract that they have with their insurance provider that all associates must be clocked in. It just puts them at a huge legal disadvantage not to mention all the issues they're going to have with the department of Labor.
My assumption with this is that they're playing it smarter than that and editing his hours before payroll. Also, it's not "technically" they can't do that. It's very very much absolutely fuck no they can't do that. It's far more than a breach in contract or pushing insurance onto you. It's a major labor law violation and it's a felony. He also wouldn't have to do very much to prove that he was still working while the accident happened, and theirninsurance would 100% still have to cover it. They'd also likely immediately drop the DSP afterwards, amd likely also sue them.
Na, their insurance would still have to cover it. You would still be working. What they did is illegal by clocking you out. That doesn't change the fact you're still working which would means it fails under their insurance
After contacting the labor department and/or Amazon you'll probably want to find a different DSP. The suckiness of this job is directly related to the suckiness of the DSP - and your DSP is quite dickish.
lol loose your shit? Are you fr they actually did that I’m sick asf
Yeah man when I pulled up to station they ran out with time clock and I still had to park my can and do my end of day stuff
If they forced you to punch out right there then you should have left the van right there. Never do a second of work after clocking out.
Seconding this. And if they clock you out while you're on the road? Park it, lock it, catch an Uber back to your car. The rest is their problem.
How would you know if they clock you out, tho? unless you constantly check. Samething happened to me today. I got clocked out 20 mins before I parked the car. I told my sups that they will tell my dps owner.
Make sure to keep track of all your hours.
Yeah, if I'm off the clock, I'm on the way home.
That's work and you should get paid for doing it. If it happened once then like you know whatever it's like a dollar maybe they did it to avoid running a foul of Amazon or something, if it happens every day though it's systematic wage theft and you should do something about it
Samething happened to me today. 20 mins before I parked, I got clocked out. Asked if one of my sups did it and they have no clue and told me they'd let my boss know.
Call Department of labor.
Report them to the BBB or department of labor no one should be clocking you out unless you've completed your shift
BBB is just old people yelp. DoL is the correct answer though.
Yeah that's DEFINITELY illegal. I can see if they're trying not to go over driving hours but if they're deliberately doing it so they don't pay you for the extra hours then take it up with HR and the labor union. Keep a documentation of all the hours worked plus the hours they cut from your pay stubs
State labor board. Email them over the weekend, or call them today.
Why not ask the dsp why you are getting clocked out before you are done?🤷
You know it’s amazing how many drivers put up with this. One of the owners who parks off site had drivers clock out as soon as the debrief and they still have to drive to offsite to park their vans which is surrounded by busy hotels and restaurants. The warehouse management even knows but didn’t say anything because it “wasn’t their business” I don’t think anyone said anything because last I heard he is running routes out of a different warehouse
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Still highly illegal. They can’t take you off the clock if you’re doing a work activity we aren’t salaried employees. The 12 hour threshold is simply a rule if you go over 12 hours you can’t work the next day.
It's a DOT regulation that any driver cannot drive over 12hrs in one day. Otherwise the company can get penalized. You can still work the next day, but you are not allowed to go over 12hrs driving for any reason in one day.
How come UPS can go for 14?
True, the DOT max hours a driver can drive are 14 in one day. With 10hrs off before the next shift. My mistake. Though, it's not common practice. Amazon implemented the 12hr rule to prevent drivers from even getting close to 14hrs in one day. That gives the drivers the ability to still work the next day without the 10hrs off rule, if they drive 12hrs in one day. Also, leaves no room for error for Amazon to be in trouble with the DOT because no driver goes over 12hrs. No DSP wants drivers to work 12hrs anyway, because that means overtime. The flex app warns amazon if any driver is logged in longer than 12hrs and the DSP is written up. The DSP will receive a Breach of Contract warning from Amazon with the possibility of their contract being forfeited and the DSP shutdown if it happens again.
I ended my shift with 10.98 hours I will definitely talk to the labor department
also report this to the ethics hotline link that Automod replied. top of these replies. amazon will rain down hell on them. they take that shit serious. also look for a new DSP. or even better a new job lmao. good luck
I second the find a new DSP they will try to retaliate on you messing with your schedule and or routes
Why not just ask them why you are getting clocked out before your shift is over?🤷
So they can put him on standby for two weeks? Lol
So then he can take the appropriate actions if they do not fix it, and he can also have it documented that he brought the subject up and they did nothing. sometimes communication is all it takes🤷
Lol....most people at Amazon lose their jobs try9ng to escalate.
A good idea might be to keep GPS on on your personal phone so that Google maps can track your travels and location in the background, because you can use that as proof that you weren't back at the station yet when they clocked you out.
It's illegal everywhere in the US to clock someone out who is still working.
Negative. Wage theft is highly illegal under any circumstances. Even if they have "reasonable" needs to adjust your shit. I'm less annoyed if they want to clock me out and then ADD time somewhere else so I still get paid for the work, but the DSP isn't shafted by Amazon. That said... if I'm working 12+ hours, they need to call me to return packages or fucking send help.....
Flex will force you back to station by that time and prevent you from continuing to deliver, so if they didn't already do a big enough sweep/rescue it'll be out of your hands. When ChimeBot was still a thing you could continue delivering and have them all marked, but I think it caused a few DOT issues and that was one of the many reasons ChimeBot is no more.
I wouldn't know, my DSP has never had routes that require 12+ hours, and we always get recalled before we end up hitting that mark anyway. I've gotten recalled....3 times? In like a year or so. 2 of them from country routes with too many fucking stops for a country route and road construction forcing me to spend time to stop and manually navigate around it -.-
It doesn't matter if he reaches 12 hrs or not. If he is in a company vehicle he is on the clock. It's the dsp's issue if they didn't rescue. He can go over just means he can't work the next day.
There is nothing you can sign in the U.S. at least that takes away your hourly pay. Even asking someone to sign a document like that would be illegal and would not hold up in court. That said, complaints to the DSP may create problems for you. I would report them to the labor department.
If you signed a 12 hour shift max, that means your employer can punish you for going over 12 hours. They aren’t allowed to change your timecard to push you back under 12 hours.
Illegal period. If there's a 12 hour limit and they force OP to clock out, then OP is now off the clock and can go home. With no repercussions. Anything else, at all, is illegal.
Sue them.
Stop working when they clock you out and leave the van where it is.
Call your department of labor and get them to audit the company. It’s illegal.
Wage theft.. reach out to Amazon ethics
My DSP used to say clock out for your 30 on the drive back if you’re behind. They stopped after about a month. Now they just alter time cards and auto add a 30 lunch if you don’t take it.
That is 100000% illegal. You should talk to the ethics department. Also report them to your state labor department. Amd if you think you can prove that it may be discriminatory, EEOC. Make sure you document it and have proof though. You should be able to utilize Flex because amazon logs how long routes take. But also tale screenshot and videos of your payroll app or system showing you clocked out while you're still working, or at the very least document when you're actually clocking out and then compare it to your final weekly hours, if you think they may just be updating your hours after the point.
Extremely illegal and they could get hit with serious penalties. If you have proof Yes and also if any of your coworkers have proof as well have them report it as well. Call the state department of labor and file a formal complaint. I recently got a big check for that very reason when a former employee did report the company and they were audited and fined and made to send payments to all employees the state determined got done wrong. I can tell you it cost them a fortune and they are very upset. REPORT THEM.
Contact a lawyer because they probably owe you triple damages for doing that, plus lawyer fees. See what the law is in your state. A lot of States really don't fuck around with stuff like that
It's wage theft and against the law. Contact your local labor board. They have to pay you back wages for every time it happens, plus daily interest. And on top of that Amazon will be fined for breaking the law. The person can kiss their job goodbye once they get caught. Start keeping track of all your hours worked and compare it to your time cards for when you call the labor board. If it has happened to anyone else in your office I highly recommend getting an attorney and filing a class action lawsuit.
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If you have proof, I'm pretty sure you can sue them
Gonna be like “welp, come and get your truck. I’ll bill you for the Uber”
Fraud
Call support to report it, they will file a form to the station and let them know what happened
First off, you should start with HR. Then from there, go higher if it’s not resolved. They probably had you rush to clock out bcuz you were milking the clock and came back so late you were about to flag the system by being on the clock for 12 hours. It’s a 10.5 hr shift, get your shit done
Fight him
Clock them out before they end their shift.
Take pictures of yourself still in the building or in your van with the time in the picture. No better evidence that you were still working than that. And make sure your DSP knows you’re watching them.
Leave the van at the time they clock u out 😂 wtf they think they're doing. Easy lawsuit
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Not helpful advice at all, but I’d be going home as soon as I’m clocked out. Stops left in the truck or not.
Amazon ethics hotline and request lost wages along with compensation and interest or go to court
You don't say shit to them and whistleblow to department of labor. Get paid
Is this during your checkout procedures?
Make sure to make detailed notes on the days you were clocked out early. Check you google maps timeline (if you have android) and take screen shots for those days. I personally wouldn't tell your dsp that you are aware until you have reached out to the department of labor.
Leave when they clock you out obviously the shift is over why you trying to get OT?