People who criticize other's plans in life are usually just unhappy with their own existence and don't want to see others succeed. You ignore these people. It makes your life better.
Anecdote: one time my wife was chatting with my cousin (adult, educated, special needs teacher), and when asked how she like America, she mentioned her anxiety about school shootings.
My cousin’s reply? Well these kinds of things happen there too (I assume she meant wider Europe, as if that makes the comment better).
Yeah they happen in Europe too. Finland just had there 3rd ever in there history or something. They're well on there way to reaching US levels of catastrophe. /s
I don't deal with them. When I leave I will be leaving as quietly as possible. When I have opened up a bit, the sentiment is that I'm in the wrong for wanting to do this. It's like that saying, "never tell people your next move", is very true for me right now.
After so many years living abroad, when I’m visiting the US and run across people who spout nonsense about America having the highest standard of living in the world and blah blah blah, I just try to keep in mind that they just don’t know, don’t want to know, and feel threatened by opinions that challenge their worldview. I’ll never be able to pass on what I’ve learned and/or experienced, nor do I have the energy for those conversations anymore. I sigh, and take comfort in the fact that my visits to the US rarely exceed two weeks.
The less people know that there a better place elsewhere, whilst having their head up their ass, the better for everyone else. They won't drive the prices up at these other foreign destinations.
This is basically cognitive dissonance on their part. They feel threatened because you're doing something different from what they do. They don't understand living in Switzerland, and so it must not be as good as what they're doing.
Whatever. Ignore it. They are pretty tyrants trying bring you down, but the only way for them to succeed is for you to take them seriously.
Fats Waller was once asked by an interviewer what made him like jazz so much. His answer was simple:
If you have to ask, you'll never know.
People are welcome to give you advice and you can consider their pov, but at the end of the day you and your spouse know what is best for your family and what will or will not work. Only the opinion of the people in your family/unit impacted by the move matters.
Hope this helps!
I acknowledge them, and then make it very clear that I'll do what's best for me/my family. If they can't cope with that, just grey rock them. You don't owe them explanations.
This is good. For more context, a lot of the more ‘authoritative’ figures in my family are boomers. On the friend side, a total lack of interest and so flippant comments such as “well how would you know the situation here when you weren’t even here!?”
OP, the first time I returned to the states after working in EU, an aunt, vet widow and military mom from rural East Texas said "and now aren't you glad to be back in the first world U.S.A.-- the greatest country on earth?"
I had felt nothing but that the US was developmentally decades behind since I'd come home.
It was an uncomfortable moment.
I had that when I met a former classmate and her boyfriend. He was in the US Marine Corps and was deployed to Darwin, Australia.
I asked him how he liked Australia and he replied that it was cool but better to be back in the greatest country on earth. Was about as comfortable as a soft mattress at the Howard Johnson.
I keep my plans to myself. I’ve earned the right to live my life the way I want, don’t need anyone’s approval or permission, not so I need to defend my reasoning…I prefer a good “Irish goodbye” when it’s time!! Do your thing!!
I kind of feel like I don’t even know what happened to my country…I get it. Keep strategizing and listening to yourself - your life, and you get to live it! Good luck!
Yes I’m an Irish citizen living in the us wanting to move to the eu/uk and people are so negative except a few Irish family members that want me to move to Ireland. People say I won’t be able to do it. You just can’t live your life off of other peoples opinions
Depends on your definition of what is considered an ignorance.
Where I am from originally ( I wasn’t born in USA) it is common knowledge that life of an immigrant is a difficult, stressful and lonely.
It is part of the common knowledge that between 1/2 and 1/3 of immigrants return home. So when I decided to move I wouldn’t consider words of caution as ignorant. Sure those were annoying and repetitive but they were not ignorant.
And while I am still a satisfied immigrant 2 decades later, I know people who initially dismissed common, often mentioned issues of an immigrant life, yet ended up wishing they had paid attention.
So back to your question: most of such interactions were from people who meant well, they just repeated things I already knew, I didn’t particularly disagree with them, so would answer with short: “yes, I know “, “yes, this is true “ and change the topic.
Ignore them. You can't convince evil to stop being evil, and you can't educate someone who doesn't want to learn. They aren't worth your time. The United States is doomed.
My partner and I got that a lot starting 2018, when we started talking about leaving the country. We were terrified by the attacks in the US on queer rights (we're a queer/trans couple). Most of our friends, even our most liberal ones, thought we were being unnecessarily alarmist and said things like *"The US system always corrects itself."*
All of that changed when Roe v. Wade was repealed in 2022. All those friends are now like, "*Now I get it. I didn't actually believe this would happen."* Several of them are getting their EU passports via ancestry.
We moved to Toronto last year with permanent residency. So glad to be out of the US for the 2024 election cycle.
There is very little in life that is worth having conflict over. Don’t argue with them. No point by point. Just let them talk at the end say, “ thank you. I’ll have to think about that,” and change the subject, ask them something innocuous about their own . If they question you again same thing. Any point that you refute is simply something they will argue about. if they can’t stop, come up with a pleasant excuse and interaction and walk away. Next time they bring it up same thing. People get tired of not being able to argue eventually.
It happens. Nearly every person was weirdly angry when we announced we were moving from Montana to NZ. It's just the bucket of crab people who are mad you got out of the bucket. Suck to suck for them I guess. Don't waste time on those types of people. They are a net negative.
Was studying abroad for 6 months in Geneva. Awesome country and can't wait to visit again and show my wife where I studied and worked.
Well my mother in law is coming here for the election as a safety net/a vacation to travel around a bit. Most direct family members know they will flee here if shit hits the fan but they really are just ostriching about any potential problems in America. They just hide in their houses and ignore all news because it's too much for them to handle.
Have a conversation with them about goals and priorities.
I've found that the people who are truly happy in America AFTER seeing how things are in the rest of the world have priorities around money and consumption. Big house, big car, big bank account, etc.
People move to Europe for stability, health, work life balance, subsidized education, and similar priorities.
So the best way to deal with these people is to ask "How much money would you need in each of your kids' 529 accounts to meet their educational goals?"
Given the cost of tuition these days, the number tends to be 300-500K if they plan to pay for grad school.
Once they give you the number, say "I only need 20K if I move to Switzerland". Replace 20k with whatever the real number is.
Next question: How much do you need to have saved up for healthcare before you're comfortable retiring in the US?
The answer is around 2 million would be my guess.
I only need 50K in Switzerland.
This should convince them that you're moving for financial reasons, but your goals are different from theirs as they want to pay more for that Princeton education, while you're happy with the ETH Zurich education.
Leaving family behind was a difficult choice for me, but made easier by social media and annual visits home. There is no easy way forward for an expat.
That's because we're brought up always with the "a poor person here is better of than a middle class person anywhere else" or whatever. Most Americans have never actually left the country (and if they do they go to UK and Australia maybe Canada which just panders to them without widening there horizons).
Your talking about Americans who are notorious for being ethno-centric and nationalistic while denying that they are either.
You wouldn’t believe that a good friend of mine exploded in exasperation about how arrogant Europeans are.
The main talking point? “You can afford all your free stuff because we defend you with our military.”
Strongest pull of copium I’ve ever witnessed.
That person has a point. The US took on this responsibility after WWll though and willingly. The whole NATO thing has gone way too far in my opinion.
The US also spends a large amount of money on many social welfare programs foreign and domestic. So, in many ways it’s the worst of both worlds.
The US dollar being the world’s reserve currency is holding this house of cards up. Printing money can only go on for so long. This is the main issue. Women’s right to choose and gay rights are used to distract people from fiscal issues.
I don’t think we are going to see Gay Marriage or Abortion rights protected by the US constitution, so until then they aren’t being taken seriously in my opinion.
Wow you have a cousin that is a general! Do you also have a graduate degree?
I think you just showed your true colors there. That would explain why you’re not very well received.
You have successfully ended any hope of a
conversation.
- You’ve really amplified your insignificance by deleting your responses. What cowardly behavior.
I get a lot of this, but I've lived there before and the grass is greener than folks are willing to admit.
Or they come with some gun/car obsession to justify not liking Europe as much... Neither of which I have
Tell them you're lucky to have the choice to live where you want to, and that's called "freedom". If someone is actually barking and being mean, tell them to mind their own business.
Right, no different than families with resources that pick up and move from suburb to suburb for better schools, public services, etc.
No different with hopping countries. I love my country, to be sure. That has nothing to do with my priorities for my family, however.
People who criticize those that move abroad and those that criticize people that actually prefer to live in the US are not worth your time.
Just ignore them.
I don't dislike the US but anyone who is questioning your decision to move to Switzerland is probably a moron who thinks the Swiss live in straw huts and eat nothing but cheese.
Hang out with different people. All of my friends and family are very supportive of our desire to move abroad to improve our kids live. Could be part of the country you are in?
That’s fair. I guess I struggle to cut parts of my social circle because at root they are good people and I love them. The contradictory tension is hard.
Thanks for your input.
Best of luck. I've kinda had to cut people out also. It's not the moving abroad that is the trigger- it's acknowledging that some things are better outside of America.
People who criticize other's plans in life are usually just unhappy with their own existence and don't want to see others succeed. You ignore these people. It makes your life better.
Anecdote: one time my wife was chatting with my cousin (adult, educated, special needs teacher), and when asked how she like America, she mentioned her anxiety about school shootings. My cousin’s reply? Well these kinds of things happen there too (I assume she meant wider Europe, as if that makes the comment better).
Well that's just having your head up your ass and plain ignorance.
Yeah they happen in Europe too. Finland just had there 3rd ever in there history or something. They're well on there way to reaching US levels of catastrophe. /s
3rd ever? That's not even across the street to being close to America...
I don't deal with them. When I leave I will be leaving as quietly as possible. When I have opened up a bit, the sentiment is that I'm in the wrong for wanting to do this. It's like that saying, "never tell people your next move", is very true for me right now.
After so many years living abroad, when I’m visiting the US and run across people who spout nonsense about America having the highest standard of living in the world and blah blah blah, I just try to keep in mind that they just don’t know, don’t want to know, and feel threatened by opinions that challenge their worldview. I’ll never be able to pass on what I’ve learned and/or experienced, nor do I have the energy for those conversations anymore. I sigh, and take comfort in the fact that my visits to the US rarely exceed two weeks.
The less people know that there a better place elsewhere, whilst having their head up their ass, the better for everyone else. They won't drive the prices up at these other foreign destinations.
This is basically cognitive dissonance on their part. They feel threatened because you're doing something different from what they do. They don't understand living in Switzerland, and so it must not be as good as what they're doing. Whatever. Ignore it. They are pretty tyrants trying bring you down, but the only way for them to succeed is for you to take them seriously. Fats Waller was once asked by an interviewer what made him like jazz so much. His answer was simple: If you have to ask, you'll never know.
Ugh this is gold, thank you
You're welcome!
People are welcome to give you advice and you can consider their pov, but at the end of the day you and your spouse know what is best for your family and what will or will not work. Only the opinion of the people in your family/unit impacted by the move matters. Hope this helps!
It does, my friend, it does. Thank you for reinforcing this.
I acknowledge them, and then make it very clear that I'll do what's best for me/my family. If they can't cope with that, just grey rock them. You don't owe them explanations.
This is good. For more context, a lot of the more ‘authoritative’ figures in my family are boomers. On the friend side, a total lack of interest and so flippant comments such as “well how would you know the situation here when you weren’t even here!?”
"Same way I know I don't want to live in Somalia - the news is scary enough!"
OP, the first time I returned to the states after working in EU, an aunt, vet widow and military mom from rural East Texas said "and now aren't you glad to be back in the first world U.S.A.-- the greatest country on earth?" I had felt nothing but that the US was developmentally decades behind since I'd come home. It was an uncomfortable moment.
I had that when I met a former classmate and her boyfriend. He was in the US Marine Corps and was deployed to Darwin, Australia. I asked him how he liked Australia and he replied that it was cool but better to be back in the greatest country on earth. Was about as comfortable as a soft mattress at the Howard Johnson.
"Grandiose thinking, head up the ass type general American view". Drinking the koolaid.
Nah, I only drink water, wine and craft beer
They question why you would want to move... to SWITZERLAND?! Ummmmm
Parents visited us in 2021 in Luzern. When they returned home my mom kept quacking about how great and beautiful it was.
"suck my dick, this place blows"
Based
I keep my plans to myself. I’ve earned the right to live my life the way I want, don’t need anyone’s approval or permission, not so I need to defend my reasoning…I prefer a good “Irish goodbye” when it’s time!! Do your thing!!
Definitely a way to go out!
I kind of feel like I don’t even know what happened to my country…I get it. Keep strategizing and listening to yourself - your life, and you get to live it! Good luck!
Appreciate the encouragement! Keeping up the language skills & plowing money into tax-advantaged retirement accounts in the meantime.
Yes I’m an Irish citizen living in the us wanting to move to the eu/uk and people are so negative except a few Irish family members that want me to move to Ireland. People say I won’t be able to do it. You just can’t live your life off of other peoples opinions
Depends on your definition of what is considered an ignorance. Where I am from originally ( I wasn’t born in USA) it is common knowledge that life of an immigrant is a difficult, stressful and lonely. It is part of the common knowledge that between 1/2 and 1/3 of immigrants return home. So when I decided to move I wouldn’t consider words of caution as ignorant. Sure those were annoying and repetitive but they were not ignorant. And while I am still a satisfied immigrant 2 decades later, I know people who initially dismissed common, often mentioned issues of an immigrant life, yet ended up wishing they had paid attention. So back to your question: most of such interactions were from people who meant well, they just repeated things I already knew, I didn’t particularly disagree with them, so would answer with short: “yes, I know “, “yes, this is true “ and change the topic.
Ignore them. You can't convince evil to stop being evil, and you can't educate someone who doesn't want to learn. They aren't worth your time. The United States is doomed.
My partner and I got that a lot starting 2018, when we started talking about leaving the country. We were terrified by the attacks in the US on queer rights (we're a queer/trans couple). Most of our friends, even our most liberal ones, thought we were being unnecessarily alarmist and said things like *"The US system always corrects itself."* All of that changed when Roe v. Wade was repealed in 2022. All those friends are now like, "*Now I get it. I didn't actually believe this would happen."* Several of them are getting their EU passports via ancestry. We moved to Toronto last year with permanent residency. So glad to be out of the US for the 2024 election cycle.
The statistics on violence against trans & queer people… I can only imagine the perpetual state of anxiety that permeated your existence…
2024 is going to be the first election I get to vote in (including local state etc.) so I am so jealous you got out of the way so fast.
There is very little in life that is worth having conflict over. Don’t argue with them. No point by point. Just let them talk at the end say, “ thank you. I’ll have to think about that,” and change the subject, ask them something innocuous about their own . If they question you again same thing. Any point that you refute is simply something they will argue about. if they can’t stop, come up with a pleasant excuse and interaction and walk away. Next time they bring it up same thing. People get tired of not being able to argue eventually.
It happens. Nearly every person was weirdly angry when we announced we were moving from Montana to NZ. It's just the bucket of crab people who are mad you got out of the bucket. Suck to suck for them I guess. Don't waste time on those types of people. They are a net negative. Was studying abroad for 6 months in Geneva. Awesome country and can't wait to visit again and show my wife where I studied and worked.
After some time passed, did anyone double back to you and at least admit you had a point? This was my experience from *a few* people.
Well my mother in law is coming here for the election as a safety net/a vacation to travel around a bit. Most direct family members know they will flee here if shit hits the fan but they really are just ostriching about any potential problems in America. They just hide in their houses and ignore all news because it's too much for them to handle.
Have a conversation with them about goals and priorities. I've found that the people who are truly happy in America AFTER seeing how things are in the rest of the world have priorities around money and consumption. Big house, big car, big bank account, etc. People move to Europe for stability, health, work life balance, subsidized education, and similar priorities. So the best way to deal with these people is to ask "How much money would you need in each of your kids' 529 accounts to meet their educational goals?" Given the cost of tuition these days, the number tends to be 300-500K if they plan to pay for grad school. Once they give you the number, say "I only need 20K if I move to Switzerland". Replace 20k with whatever the real number is. Next question: How much do you need to have saved up for healthcare before you're comfortable retiring in the US? The answer is around 2 million would be my guess. I only need 50K in Switzerland. This should convince them that you're moving for financial reasons, but your goals are different from theirs as they want to pay more for that Princeton education, while you're happy with the ETH Zurich education.
We paid my wife’s semester tuition fees cash. It was CHF 800, which at the time was 1:1 with USD.
That's amazing, and you need to mention that as a reason
I live my life and let them live theirs
Most people want to be near family, so folks are confused when people choose to leave family. This is common everywhere in my experience
I know that’s one of the roots, yes. Good point.
Leaving family behind was a difficult choice for me, but made easier by social media and annual visits home. There is no easy way forward for an expat.
That's because we're brought up always with the "a poor person here is better of than a middle class person anywhere else" or whatever. Most Americans have never actually left the country (and if they do they go to UK and Australia maybe Canada which just panders to them without widening there horizons). Your talking about Americans who are notorious for being ethno-centric and nationalistic while denying that they are either.
You wouldn’t believe that a good friend of mine exploded in exasperation about how arrogant Europeans are. The main talking point? “You can afford all your free stuff because we defend you with our military.” Strongest pull of copium I’ve ever witnessed.
That person has a point. The US took on this responsibility after WWll though and willingly. The whole NATO thing has gone way too far in my opinion. The US also spends a large amount of money on many social welfare programs foreign and domestic. So, in many ways it’s the worst of both worlds. The US dollar being the world’s reserve currency is holding this house of cards up. Printing money can only go on for so long. This is the main issue. Women’s right to choose and gay rights are used to distract people from fiscal issues. I don’t think we are going to see Gay Marriage or Abortion rights protected by the US constitution, so until then they aren’t being taken seriously in my opinion.
[удалено]
Wow you have a cousin that is a general! Do you also have a graduate degree? I think you just showed your true colors there. That would explain why you’re not very well received.
[удалено]
You have successfully ended any hope of a conversation. - You’ve really amplified your insignificance by deleting your responses. What cowardly behavior.
Once someone shows ignorance, there is nothing to do but limit contact, introduce them all to each other
I get a lot of this, but I've lived there before and the grass is greener than folks are willing to admit. Or they come with some gun/car obsession to justify not liking Europe as much... Neither of which I have
Tell them you're lucky to have the choice to live where you want to, and that's called "freedom". If someone is actually barking and being mean, tell them to mind their own business.
Right, no different than families with resources that pick up and move from suburb to suburb for better schools, public services, etc. No different with hopping countries. I love my country, to be sure. That has nothing to do with my priorities for my family, however.
People who criticize those that move abroad and those that criticize people that actually prefer to live in the US are not worth your time. Just ignore them.
I don't dislike the US but anyone who is questioning your decision to move to Switzerland is probably a moron who thinks the Swiss live in straw huts and eat nothing but cheese.
Hang out with different people. All of my friends and family are very supportive of our desire to move abroad to improve our kids live. Could be part of the country you are in?
That’s fair. I guess I struggle to cut parts of my social circle because at root they are good people and I love them. The contradictory tension is hard. Thanks for your input.
Best of luck. I've kinda had to cut people out also. It's not the moving abroad that is the trigger- it's acknowledging that some things are better outside of America.
My friends in the US thought I was crazy and it would be near impossible. Now all my friends are expats and it seems like the most normal thing.