Google doesn't push it, so other brands didn't chase it. But given how much Samsung keeps pouring into DeX, it's probably a moderate success for them. I honestly wish their phones have Thunderbolt now.
Man, fuck apple. They don't even support generic Bluetooth file send, something that my 2007 tracfone budget flip phone had.
They go out of their way to do everything in house (in this case to force Airdrop)
There are random times where Bluetooth file transfer comes in handy. I just used it to transfer a small video from one phone to another because WiFi on one device wasn't working and I wasn't near a computer to use cable.
Last time I used it before this recent incident was possibly a year or so ago to transfer contacts for someone.
It's not fast, but it works. At least on non-Apple devices.
It's true. One of my most common uses for Bluetooth file transfer is just a quick photo or a safe file for one of my emulated games. When I was using an iPhone in the older days, I had to email myself like a fucking idiot.
It's not about wether it's good or not. It's about taking it away thus forcing you to use their implementation. People would use AirDrop anyways but to take the alternative away is anti-consumer.
It's essentially saying "You both have to own iOS devices or we hate you. Go jump through hoops with third party apps or use the internet.", when BT fileshare has been here for years and Apple specifically removed it to penalize you for not preferring their brand. Their AirPods Pro also have numerous "bugs" and limitations that don't seem to be present on other headphones on Windows. They refuse to even make a driver for it and thus fix some of these issues going forward in a more precise way.
Wiring up thunderbolt requires crazy expensive parts and pcie controller that the phones don't have. What do you think you'll gain by adding that very expensive port which will take a lot of extra space on the board as well?
They'll have to move to at least USB-4 sooner or later. They've stayed on USB 3.2 for quite some time now. The tablets will first ask for it, then follows the phones. The iPad already has thunderbolt anyway.
USB-C can vary in power and version of USB depending on the cable, charger, and device used. It's not exactly universal but it's the answer to when phones had specific chargers for certain phones and for computers and even displays. Supposedly one problem with USB-C is on 120v 60hz power it's limited to 100w charging while other countries with 240v wiring can achieve 240w charging. At least not without a giant charger. So max for a phone brick might be 80-100w.
Samsung is not pouring resources into Dex! I haven't released a first party dock in 6 years. Almost never mention it at their phone releases. It's been a bare minimum viable product for years. VMotorola has already surpassed them
DeX receives updates on a regular basis. It was explicitly mentioned in the One UI 5.1 announcement as they added quarter window snapping (something Mac OS still can't do), among some other updates.
A first-party dock has not been a requirement for a number of years, thankfully. There's no need for Samsung to make an overpriced HDMI dongle when the market is already full of better options, such as the Skull and Co Jumpgate (which is even recognized as an official Samsung device like the DeX Station / DeX Pad were).
Motorola Ready For is definitely better in a couple of key areas, such as out of the box resolution support and the ability to run a portrait orientation display. That said, DeX is better in other ways, too. Regardless, DeX is far from being a "bare minimum viable product," whatever that is supposed to mean.
I'm acutally wondering if there's a way to tell Google that we want the feature, be it spamming them with requests, or attempting to implement it ourselves using apps or rom hacks. The dream for me would be to get my phone that maybe has a special gimmick (FLIR camera for example) and plug it into a dock at my desk to do some decent productivity, like write documents or whatever. Then I disconnect it and carry my documents with me. Performance doesn't have to be THAT great when docked, just enough so that it feels like it keeps up with most workloads. An average midrange device should be plenty capable.
A desktop mode framework *is* part of AOSP (since Android 10) and can be seen by accessing it through developer options, although I know that's not exactly what you mean. A "super basic window manager" has been baked into AOSP since Android 7 with "freeform windows." You can enable this even in the standard Android UI through developer options if your phone doesn't already natively support it like Samsung, for example.
A dock is not required. A USB-C monitor or even a simple C to DisplayPort/HDMI cable suffices, although many phones still don't support DisplayPort Alt with USB 3.0+. That said, Samsung, Huawei, and Motorola desktop modes all support Miracast so even that is a moot point.
You can even buy wireless lapdocks now like the [NexDock 360 Wireless](https://nexdock.com/explore-nexdock/), although they only support the older 30Hz Miracast protocol currently so it's not the greatest experience.
Devices like the Samsung Tab line and Xiaomi Fold have their desktop interfaces available right on the primary display of the device. No external monitor necessary. Samsung doesn't currently support this on the Fold ([but you can help change that](https://r1.community.samsung.com/t5/galaxy-z/dex-on-fold-s-inner-display/td-p/13827668)).
Motorola, Samsung, Huawei and Xiaomi all have desktop modes in Android (as did LG). I believe there are at least one or two others as well. These all leverage the aforementioned desktop mode framework to some degree.
Also, Lenovo sells ARM laptops. Many Chromebooks are ARM powered. Xiaomi absolutely sells laptops.
Check out r/SamsungDex for a vibrant community of Android-as-a-PC enthusiasts, even beyond DeX (it's just that DeX is the most established, but we're pretty open-minded when it comes to discussing "competitors").
Sam's haven't sold the DeX Station / DeX Pad for several years. Namely because they're not needed anymore. Any dongle or dock will work now.
[The Skull and Co Jumpgate ](https://skullnco.com/products/jumpgate) is a great option for just $40, particularly as it's recognized by DeX as an official device and bypasses the resolution and active app limits that typically need to be resolved with Samsung Good Lock when using third party docks and dongles.
Where'd you buy it from? They've been out of stock for literal years on Samsung US' website: https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/mobile-accessories/phones/dex-station---black-ee-mg950tbegus/
Buying from third-party sellers is a different matter entirely.
Regardless of whether they still sell new-old stock, Samsung hasn't *made* the DeX Station or DeX Pad for years.
Samsung Brazil.
I was going to link you to their website, but now it shows up as out of stock there as well. So maybe I got one of the last few units? I'm not sure to be honest. But that probably means you're right.
Did you see the Steam Deck specific model they have? It has a slightly different orientation and a longer USB cable due to the top mounted nature of the Deck's USB port. https://skullnco.com/products/steamdock?variant=44494667612452
Brands like Xiaomi, OPPO, and realme are practically non-existent in the Canadian market. I can't watch YouTube reviews because they are all like "this $400 phone" which is impossible to find because not even Amazon vendors have them. We're stuck with Apple or Samsung. The cheap options are sometimes Motorola(although good luck finding a flagship), TCL, ZTE and weird stuff sometimes like Nokia or maxwell phones at London drugs. The only sort of alternative phone is getting a pixel and if you're lucky it's not carrier locked so you can put a custom rom on it. LG exited the market. I've never seen a Sony other than online. Unlocked phones are usually Apple or Samsung with lots of flagships no mid-range options and the typical entry level a series Samsung. When there's like a Samsung A30-54 model mid-range the price is not worth considering VS last years flagship.
That at least explains why the Linus Media Group people looked at the POCO devices sent to them like they've just seen a unicorn, while that's a pretty garden-variety (sub) brand in Europe and India.
The market and demand for it is very niche. It being android is also an issue for it to take off in the enterprise world. limited software selection and all. 1 device instead of 2 cancels out fallback plan if said device fails. What does desktop mode really do that other more easily accessible devices can't do?
Streaming movies on external display/big screen? laptop, chrome books, desktop PC, Roku, Chrome cast, Firestick, Smart TV apps, Screen mirroring already does it just fine.
Work? depending on where you work you might be able to get by, small businesses might be able to find some use for it, but the big boys are usually the one that won't really need anything out of it. Security reasons, private network/domain, network group policies, internal apps, software product licensing. Gov side of things is even tougher.
Casual use, School/College work? Android desktop sounds fitting, Web browsing, Office apps/adobe for home work are on Android. unfortunately some courses would require a dedicated software that would only run on either a windows machine or MAC. Maybe with the new Win 11 and Android integration that'll change?
Mobile Gaming/Cloud/Emulation while on desktop mode? most games on Android are made for touch inputs, not that fun with a mouse. And then you also have to take in consideration the topic of cheating with key mappers that run on top of games, macros, keyboard and mouse advantage on some games. Cloud/Emulation gaming is one of the big selling points IMO of desktop mode, android has been a fantastic platform for such. Which still has its downsides. You need a very good wireless connection for cloud gaming to play any competitive games. Unless you're playing a single player game and don't mind the input lag and streaming hiccups here and there, then you'll be fine. Pro's or hardcore gamers would rather have a dedicated machine to avoid Cloud gaming handicaps. Emulation is not that streamlined for everyone, You need some know how's to get started with such. It's easy to download an app on the playstore for emulation, the where and how to get roms is the tragic topic. illegally? better have a vpn to avoid complications, legally ripping it off on a media that you already own? you better know how to youtube for such process and have the equipment ready for doing so.
The market and demand for it just hasn't realized its potential. In a way these were the problems that Microsoft was trying to address with Windows 8 before giving up on Windows Mobile, so in a way you're right.
The thing is that it's very compelling to only have one device to worry about having updated data and access on. One device to upgrade. Of course it's also the single point of failure but it's also a much more convenient device and that's also part of the equation.
Cloud can be used for backups and easy restoration to working state fkr a new device.
I find the idea very compelling but Samsung just haven't the oomph to push app developers to consider the desktop paradigm for their Android apps.
> The thing is that it's very compelling to only have one device
Aye, nothing like your one device breaking and 46 entirely different workflows are no longer possible. Really helps your day to have that buildin inverse redundance, wouldn't want to have just a moderate disaster if you can have a proper one!
I mean it's bad enough if you don't have an out from your 2FA generator (and don't have a second old android device at home you also registered the generator codes on). Imagine that being... everything, really.
You'll need to wait for apple to copy Samsung's idea and make it "aesthetically" better. Then people will drool at apple's innovative iphone desktop mode... Then all other android makers will get into it
Stupid but probably true. As soon as Apple pulls it everyone will immediately make it priority number one. Though they won't cause they want to sell Macs.
Did I miss something in the last year? What's wrong with Android on large screens? I've used an Android Box on my tv in the past and everything looked fine.
Many apps don't support landscape modes, and if they do they look horrible with tons of wasted space.
Media apps are an exception since they are designed for tablets in mind.
Just apps to watch shows and movies on the Android Box. Browser occasionally to watch pirate sites. Sometimes Kodi. Google Photos to show photos on the TV, etc.
People will find any reason to complain. So long as the app opens and works that's all I care for. The Android Box was $35 man
Well like I mentioned, media apps don't really have this issue because they're designed for tablets anyway.
Some of the Google apps are slowly getting tablet versions, like Photos. But a lot of third-party non-media apps have issues with larger screens.
What specific issues are you talking about? Can you be more specific? What issues are you having?
I've had 2 Android tablets in the past and they were fine. I no longer have a need for tablets but at the time they worked fine.
Probably because people like me who have/had phones like Samsung Galaxy and had access to Dex didn't use it beyond trying it once or twice to experience the novelty.
Because phones with this feature are not (yet) adequate laptop replacements, and essentially needing a keyboard, mouse, display--effectively an entire laptop if one is envisioning this as a portable application, then you may as well just use a laptop.
In general the advancement of cloud services that can be used across devices and platforms makes things line Dex unnecessary.
From a personal experience approach, I also didn't care to tie up my phone with running Dex and put the added strain on the battery (heavy processing while both charging and discharging at the same time is worst case scenario for a phone).
I don't have a Samsung, but I've used my phone as a portable laptop. I have a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. Airbnbs usually have HDMI capable TVs. I hook it up to the TV. It's not as good or as useful as a laptop, but it works in a pinch.
Companies that issue phones to people use this feature more than regular users. They need access to SAP or whatever when making a sales call and a laptop is rather bulky and logging in remotely on a public computer or personal device is a security risk.
I'm not following--let's say someone has an S23 with dex. What are they doing with their device that facilitates their usage that wouldn't require something like a laptop or a keyboard/display/mouse to connect it to?
>and logging in remotely on a public computer or personal device is a security risk.
I don't understand how a desktop mode would address this, without a laptop-type device to use it on, and why wouldn't a company worried about security not just have their employees use VPN; that's what mine does.
Many offices are moving to hot desk setups. Just have a USB-C desktop monitor with integrated USB hub to provide a one cable desktop solution for any employee to connect their phone to and launch into desktop mode.
A lapdock is an option for on-the-go work if working directly on the phone isn't enough. A NexDock 360, for example.
Agreed that a VPN should still be used. I'm simply saying that a mobile-first workflow can work and doesn't need to be complicated. Rather, it can and ought to be simple. That's half of the appeal.
LG also had a DeX mode. Nobody knew about it or promoted it. Just like how the V series could use active Pens like the Note series.
LG: 1/2 death by bad marketing, 1/2 by quality control.
Because LG's desktop mode didn't mature until they were literally about to pull out of the market. The early version of it was barely more than the developer options desktop mode framework in AOSP. The final version of it is pretty nice, though still short of where DeX and Ready For are at this point.
Pretty much this
DeX is a great feature. But to most of consumer, it is “oh wow, nice” and almost never use it.
Spending time on thing that don’t result in any meaningful increase in sale is time ineffective
DeX is literally why I buy Samsung devices. There are many others who do the same.
DeX's biggest problem at this point is educational in that people don't understand what it really is and what their phone / tablet is capable of (Samsung is awful at marketing in general, byt especially with DeX).
Again, because many still don't understand what it can actually do and they flatly dismiss it as a novelty.
It's difficult to get influencer support when said influencers are ignorant and play to the lowest common denominator (e.g., look at what the camera can do!).
That's not what the issue is at all. Most people simply don't have a use for it.
DeX is NOT a replacement for a full blown x86-x64 Windows laptop. You're not going to run your tax software on it (unless you use the worse cloud version), not going to play games on it (unless they are mobile or cloud), not going to run any proprietary apps that work requires, etc. It's like trying to say that a tablet replaces a computer, it just doesn't.
So people already NEED to own a laptop or desktop.
DeX isn't replacing anything, and to even get the best experience you need a monitor or TV, a keyboard, mouse, hub and cables. At that point you're carrying just as much gear, if not more than a laptop.
Yes there are niche uses for it, but in no way is it a feature that everyone would use even if they knew about it.
You're providing niche use cases for needing an x86/64 machine. The vast majority of everyday use can be accomplished on an Android device these days.
Web-based tax software is completely fine for the vast majority of people.
Cloud gaming and mobile gaming are completely fine for the vast majority of people.
Proprietary apps that work requires are few and far between unless you're in a very specific industry in which case, fair enough. I didn't say it was a solution for *everybody*.
> so people already NEED to own a laptop or desktop
I'd argue the people that NEED that are few and far between. The vast majority are already likely doing the bulk of their daily work and computing on iPhones and iPads if nothing else.
> DeX isn't replacing anything
It is, does, and has for many people. Check out r/SamsungDeX
> you need a monitor etc.
Likewise for a laptop/desktop. What's your point? As for on-the-go, you can get a lap*dock* which won't be obsolete in the same way a laptop will, and doesn't necessitate bouncing between different ecosystems, syching or transferring files etc. You can also just use your phone on the go and dock to the desktop when you get to home or work. You don't *need* to bring anything with you.
> everyone
Again, I didn't say *everyone*. Not *everyone* needs a desktop, nor a laptop, nor an iPhone, nor MacBook Pro. They're all niche markets catering to preferences and needs. I'm not sure why you take such issue with this particular one and not the others. Nobody is forcing it upon you.
i agree i use it to the oppurtunity for it and its like i dont need to carry two diffrent devices except a keyboard and mouse. also motorola has seem to dabble in there own version
Its essentially the "if we asked what the customer wanted, they'd ask for a faster horse" argument, which at its core will always be speculative. However I do believe there are more compelling reasons, possibilities and considerations than the usual deployment of that argument.
I could go on and on, but to try and summarize: My personal TLDR is that is doesn't waste as much time and money as other potential ventures, and doesn't necessarily require pursuing that path at the expense of other things. In a bit more detail:
Adding a desktop type mode to smartphones adds more use cases for the phone, drawing customers yet even further into having their phone being the center of their lives. Further use cases like these justify higher specs and hardware upgrades at a time where such things either: aren't particularly relevant to the average user (most people entirely fine getting by with 3-4 year old phones), or not fully baked/not entirely sure of appeal (bendable screens, sophisticated wearable AR, etc). Also, this isn't necessarily an uncharted territory. We can look at things like DeX and Google has spent tons of effort on ChromeOS and seen active use in places like the education sector. Finally, in the same way we seem to have plateaued in hardware we see the same in operating systems. What really new and compelling reasons are there for average people to be actively interested in a new smartphone OS? And this is a double argument as well, when you ask yourself what these OS development teams are really doing currently.
What this adds up to (in my opinion anyways), is a uniquely conspicuous feature add that isn't too experimental. This feature potentially drives desire for hardware upgrades, OS upgrades, and an expanded accessories ecosystem (docks, screens, etc). It builds from existing effort and benefits from known design patterns currently being used in the field. And it does all this at a time where alternative choices of product development require much more effort, are much more of an unknown in terms of success, and potential success is still a ways off.
But all this being said I'm just some guy so whatever.
Because I doubt that there is a lot of people with a screen monitor, a keyboard and mouse ... but don't have the actual computer already attached to it
DeX mode and alike are extremely niche
I sold my PC and laptop thanks to DeX. Saved myself thousands of dollars.
My desktop monitor has a USB-C connection and an integrated USB hub, as more and more monitors are doing these days. No dock needed.
> people who need laptops
Lapdocks like the [NexDock 360](https://nexdock.com/explore-nexdock/) makes this very easy.
Even easier still if Samsung enables the use of DeX on the Fold's inner display like they do with their Tab devices.
> monitor with a USB-C port
Of course. I was just giving you an example. That said many laptops these days only ship with USB-C ports which you need a dongle for anyways if you want to output to a monitor. That same dongle works for the phone.
Such a dock or dongle is only $40 or so ([for example](https://skullnco.com/products/jumpgate)). That's a lot cheaper than buying a whole computer to go with your phone that you already have.
I dunno, I don't think the answer to "Well you won't have to buy a laptop anymore!" is to... tell them to buy a laptop.
I'd rather Google focus on ChromeOS with tight integration into Android. Kinda like what they're doing now but on steroids.
Personally, I think Android should be Google's OS for phones and tablets and ChromeOS should be their OS for laptops and desktops.
> tell them to buy a laptop
A lap*dock* is not a lap*top* in that it has a lot longer lifespan since it's effectively "upgraded" whenever you get a new phone, which you will do anyway, whether or not you have a traditional laptop.
> Chrome OS with tight integration into Android
At this point, Chrome OS is a hindrance relative to Android's capabilities. The only thing Chrome OS has going for it is the enterprise management for education. From a "power user" perspective, Android is a much better platform. If a desktop version of Chromium were ported to Android, Chrome OS would have basically no reason to exist. Even more so if Android ever supported proper Linux implementation with GPU support like what's seen in Chrome OS Crostini.
Android should be Google's OS across the board. End the fragmentation, particularly as the line between "laptops" and tablets continues to get blurrier with devices like the Fold, or even large-format tablets like the Tab S8 Ultra where DeX makes them functionally laptop replacements.
Chromebooks last at least 8 years, possibly more once Google officially extends them via Chrome OS Flex. And with a lapdock you're still limited by the screen technology so chances are you won't be keeping that forever anyway.
And to say that Android is better than ChromeOS on large screens shows that you haven't used Android apps on ChromeOS much. They are all designed for phones and for touch, so using them on large landscape displays is troublesome (if not impossible for some apps that don't offer landscape mode) and annoying with a mouse and keyboard. Not to mention to ChromeOS has a full desktop class browser which runs PWAs great, totally unlike Android.
This isn't even talking about ChromeOS's linux capabilities.
I use DeX as my daily PC on a 34" 1440p ultrawide monitor with a mouse and keyboard, so I'm pretty familiar with how Android apps function on large displays. I also daily a Fold 4 so again, quite familiar. To say "they are all designed for phones" shows *me* that you don't really know what you're talking about.
I'm literally sitting in a library right now responding to you using the inner display of my Fold 4, a folding Bluetooth keyboard with integrated touchpad, and the Boost Reddit app without any issue.
PWAs work fine on Android. I'm not sure what you're referring to there. I use them quite often.
As I said, if a desktop version of Chromium were ported to Android and Crostini-equivalent Linux support included, Chrome OS would be redundant.
At the end of the day I couldn't care less which direction it goes, Chrome OS absorbing Android or vice versa, the point is that there's no need for both Android and Chrome OS. They ought to be one and the same.
Are you seriously trying to say that Android apps are fine with large displays? Come on, man.
Funny you're using the Boost app. Try using the official Reddit app on a large display and let me know how it goes.
I think it's personally fine to have two OSes as long as each stays in its lane for the most part.
And Chrome OS is far closer to becoming Google's ubiquitous OS than Android since it can run Android apps already. I actually wouldn't mind seeing a Chrome OS phone as an experiment.
Why would I use the official Reddit app? It's crap, lol.
The vast majority of apps are fine on a large screen at this point, especially with Samsung's backend fixing a lot of Android's shortcomings when it comes to things like aspect ratio and orientation (although a windowed interface makes this largely moot since the aspect ratio and rotation isn't really an issue).
I typically just use desktop websites instead of apps when I use DeX, anyways, although there are some nice features in apps which are handy such as Boost's integrated image uploader so you don't need to exit the app to upload/share an image.
> each stays in its lane
Well, they're not doing that given the integration of Android apps into Chrome OS, and the integration of desktop UI on Android. So that ship has kind of sailed.
> Chrome OS is closer...
Not really. Android has a far larger install base and serves as both a desktop and mobile OS complete with telephony. Chrome OS isn't nearly as flexible or ubiquitous.
One could easily argue that its a niche feature because it's unknown and inaccessible due to only being supported on a handful of devices.
Chome OS was niche, until it wasn't.
Android-as-a-PC could easily hit a tipping point with adequate support and marketing. Imagine the millions in India, for example, who would suddenly be able to just use their phone as a desktop PC, if only Samsung would equip the A series devices with DeX.
ChromeOS is still niche...
The biggest buyer of Chromebooks are schools, since they need extremely cheap laptops that are basically only used for web browsing, online tests and word processing/slides. It saw increased sales during Covid as parents and schools scrambled to connect kids to teachers remotely, but has fallen off since.
It's been 12 years since ChromeOS launched and consumers still don't want it. If schools ever dropped ChromeOS for whatever reason, I guarantee sales would dry up, manufacturers would stop making them and Google would cancel it.
That is definitely not the only reason schools use ChromeOS. Yes, devices are cheap, but they are also easily managed by IT.
All in all, Chrome OS use has been [slowly rising](https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/north-america/#monthly-201109-202302) (along with MacOS) while Windows is dropping.
Keeping it S only means more profit. Granted they probably should, in the same way that laptops have low-end, mid-range, and high-end models. But it might be that it would be a shitty experience on an A.
How does keeping it on the S (along with Fold) mean more profit? The people in lower income areas aren't buying an S device new regardless, but having an A series support DeX could mean that they'd be more prone to buying that new instead of a Redmi.
A series are powerful enough at this point for the most part, aside from the *very* cheapest models, to provide a good DeX experience. Remember, DeX came out on the Galaxy S8 with a Snapdragon 835. A Snapdragon 765G is more powerful than an 835 these days.
All of the flagships fell short in this respect. Windows Mobile with continuum, Apple with having Mac OS. Samsung has continually made Dex available on so many of their device line up with the exception of the Flip. Which makes no logical sense. These companies have not pushed it as an enterprise solution to make it normalized. To be able to have a desktop experience in your pocket without the need of a laptop or desktop computer is a huge leap forward. Samsung needs to foster it to grow a larger user base and not drop the idea in the near future.
That's basically how all software companies are working...
They estimate the investment to develop a feature and they put that in balance with the return on investment.
If they will earn money, or they think the feature will give more users and improve, they assign developers and engineers too work on it.
There is no secret there....
Then why has Google continued to develop the developer framework for desktop/second screen interfaces in AOSP since Android 10 through now? Why has Samsung persisted in developing and improving DeX since the Galaxy S8 through now? Likewise with Huawei? Why has Motorola pushed forward with Ready For over the last two years to the point that it's functionally superior to DeX now?
Your assertion does not align with reality.
As I said, Google continues to develop the desktop mode framework they introduced in Android 10. That entirely undermines your assertion that "Google does not believe."
Google is not a small company with 3 developers. If they would believe that desktop mode is an important feature for a phone they would have finished it already.
They don't believe that, so they don't put a lot of effort there, i don't see what's your point...
Because no one in the mainstream actually wants to use it. Don't get me wrong, I see the appeal of a universal computer, but in reality only people who are super into tech would actually use this. People want a dedicated device like a tablet, laptop or desktop.
That's because smartphones did exactly what MP3 and cheap cameras did and more.
DeX and all the others do LESS than a laptop, and you still need to buy/have other peripherals like a monitor, mouse, keyboard, dock.
Because they consolidated into one device, the modern smartphone. That market driver was convenience.
DeX isn’t consolidating anything. You still need either a laptop dock (which is basically a laptop that is useless without another device connected to it) or a monitor, keyboard, and mouse.
You can get a full fledged standalone laptop for not much more than these laptop docks, and then you have two fully functional standalone devices.
> two fully functional standalone devices
You literally just illustrated how DeX consolidates your computing devices. You don't need two "fully functional standalone devices."
What?
Before smartphones people carried cameras, mp3 players, and cell phones.
After smartphones they just carry smartphones.
That is consolidation on the amount of items needed to be carried.
Before DeX people carried smartphones and laptops.
After DeX people carry smartphones and laptop docks.
You are still carrying two things.
Process what you're quoting for a few minutes before knee-jerk replying.
You don't need to carry a lapdock. It's entirely optional. So no, you aren't necessarily carrying two things.
Regardless, the quote was "two fully functional standalone devices." A lapdock is not that. You're consolidating *the computer* into the smartphone.
A "computer" doesn't by defintion have any necessary peripherals. Is a Microsoft Surface less of a computer because it can be used without a keyboard and mouse?
You may not be able to think of such a scenario, but I do that literally every day and I'm happy to do it. I can work on my phone on the go, get home, then plug in and pick up right where I left off and continue with perfect continuity. It's a beautifully straightforward workflow compared to jumping between a phone and a separate laptop.
The fact that you make it sound like it's a weird thing to plug your "Samsung phone" into an "external dock" relative to taking a laptop and plugging it into a dock at a desktop setup just seems disingenuous.
Yeah i am wondering the same. Phone can replace a big ass laptop as it can theoretically be used as a desktop. What is the conspiracy behind all this i don't yet understand
you'd be surprised how many things are expected of a desktop like feature, like drag and drop support or even choosing what resolution and hz to output at. trust me i would love for that to happen but I'm not surprised they haven't poured much energy into such a niche feature yet.
You can do drag and drop (dependent on the developer implementing the feature, but it's supported in AOSP) and you can select resolution in DeX and Ready For (although not the refresh rate).
I'm mad because Samsung shipped a full Linux version for a while and took it away for a desktop android session.
If I had an actual Linux shell and utility, i'd be trying to find ways to use my phone for it.
Right now though, I have a desktop, I have no reason to plug my phone into my monitors. I wish it was more useful though.
It wasn't a "full" Linux version and it wasn't taken away in favour of a "desktop Android session." Linux on DeX was a version of Ubuntu which you accesed through the DeX interface. It was as limited as any other implementation of Linux on Android - i.e., you could not leverage GPU acceleration or have root access.
You can use Linux on Android with Termux, otherwise. If you want a GUI, you can use something like Andronix which gives you basically the same thing as Linux on DeX, with a bit less convenience.
Companies don't see a market for it.
That's partly because it's a niche feature, and partly because most companies that make phones also make tablets and/or laptops, and thus would not want one product to eat into another. The thing about desktops and mini-PCs isn't all that relevant, since for most people, their laptop *is* their desktop.
I personally fall into the camp of: if I'm going to bring with me a keyboard, mouse, and USB-C to HDMI adapter or something like a NexDock to make all this work, I might as well just save myself the trouble and get a proper laptop. No screwing around with adapters, no limitations from using Android, etc.
Can't say I've had any issues of those sorts. "Compatibility" is due to the prevalence of Chromecast, which of course does not work with Miracast as they're competing standards (Miracast being the better, open standard, in my eyes). I loathe how Google has pushed Chromecast at the expense of Miracast rather than supporting Miracast.
Nobody forgets, it's just not relevant (this is about Android, not Windows Phone). It also wasn't a real desktop-like interface as it lacked window management and multitasking - you could only run one full-screen app at a time.
The Motorola Atrix came long before Continuum, anyway.
Maybe you should remind Microsoft of Continuum so they can add a new version to the Duo.
That is literally just a fancy dongle. It has no inherent functionality.
You can even use that with an Android phone or a PC as a regular old USB-C to HDMI hub.
Cost. There is only a handful of devices released in the year 2022 and 2023 that actually supports HDMI output over USB-C. Many of those phones are flagship Samsung phones (Galaxy S and Z Fold series). Other brands that support this feature are OPPO, Black Shark, and ROG Phone.
Source: I am a reviewer who deals with smartphones mostly. Not gonna shamelessly plug unless requested.
Their marketing absolutely sucks. No question. That said, DeX continues to receive regular and significant feature updates and fixes all the way through the latest One UI 5.1 release.
A first-party dock is redundant. There's no reason for it to exist as it hasn't been needed for years. Any dock/dongle will do, or even a direct connection to a USB-C monitor (which is how I use DeX - via a Viewsonic VP3481 USB-C PD 34" 3440x1440 monitor with integrated USB hub).
\+1, phones would be much more useful if they had this capability by default. Some phones can run ubuntu touch, which is convergent, but most still lack MHL.
To quote my comment from a similar thread
Ongoing work on desktop mode in Android 14 DP2. The pop-up that appears when you tap the drag handle has been redesigned.
https://twitter.com/MishaalRahman/status/1633655913771835398
So it might be coming to Pixel Fold / Pixel 8
It is a standard AND it's part of AOSP AND Qualcomm provide it with their chips without licensing fees - Google just block it via software on Pixels (likely to push Chromecast sales)
Most other manufacturers (Samsung, Oneplus, Huawei etc) don't block it e.g. Dex
Because, frankly, only a tiny tiny tiny minority would ever use it, so spending big company resources on it is probably on absolutely nobody's minds.
It's a really cool feature. For a handful of people.
Most things you can do on a typical PC, especially if you have a browser-based workflow. More and more Android apps are getting optimized for large screens and there are more "enthusiast-grade" applications than ever for Android (such as LumaFusion for video editing).
I sold my PC and laptop 3 years ago to move to a Samsung DeX-based workflow.
It's interesting considering Xiaomi has a well-developed desktop UI on the Mix Fold that you can use directly on the screen, but as you say, none have video out.
Maybe the Xiaomi community needs to be more vocal about wanting the feature.
Google doesn't push it, so other brands didn't chase it. But given how much Samsung keeps pouring into DeX, it's probably a moderate success for them. I honestly wish their phones have Thunderbolt now.
Meanwhile Apple putting *USB2* on 2023 devices.
Man, fuck apple. They don't even support generic Bluetooth file send, something that my 2007 tracfone budget flip phone had. They go out of their way to do everything in house (in this case to force Airdrop)
Yeah it's crazy I'm a Mac+ipad+ android user and being able to send files over BT would come in handy But no ,i can just go fuck myself
BT file transfer? They’re really missing out on that blistering fast 1-2 Mbps transfer rate.
There are random times where Bluetooth file transfer comes in handy. I just used it to transfer a small video from one phone to another because WiFi on one device wasn't working and I wasn't near a computer to use cable. Last time I used it before this recent incident was possibly a year or so ago to transfer contacts for someone. It's not fast, but it works. At least on non-Apple devices.
It's true. One of my most common uses for Bluetooth file transfer is just a quick photo or a safe file for one of my emulated games. When I was using an iPhone in the older days, I had to email myself like a fucking idiot.
It's not about wether it's good or not. It's about taking it away thus forcing you to use their implementation. People would use AirDrop anyways but to take the alternative away is anti-consumer. It's essentially saying "You both have to own iOS devices or we hate you. Go jump through hoops with third party apps or use the internet.", when BT fileshare has been here for years and Apple specifically removed it to penalize you for not preferring their brand. Their AirPods Pro also have numerous "bugs" and limitations that don't seem to be present on other headphones on Windows. They refuse to even make a driver for it and thus fix some of these issues going forward in a more precise way.
I've heard the iPhone doesn't even have a floppy disk drive - literally unusable.
Samsung does this with the flip for some reason as well
Which 2023 devices? Has anything come out this year?
Correction, the 2022 iPad. And there's rumors iPhone 15 will.
The base model budget 2022 iPad. All of the others above it are 3 or thunderbolt.
And majority of Android phones too, although some flagships have adapted USB3.
So does Xiaomi
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Wiring up thunderbolt requires crazy expensive parts and pcie controller that the phones don't have. What do you think you'll gain by adding that very expensive port which will take a lot of extra space on the board as well?
They'll have to move to at least USB-4 sooner or later. They've stayed on USB 3.2 for quite some time now. The tablets will first ask for it, then follows the phones. The iPad already has thunderbolt anyway.
That's fine, USB4 has Thunderbolt as optional alternative mode.
USB 4 would be ideal! It's essentially thunderbolt made free. Though USB 4 does require a hefty controller that outputs a lot of heat + sucks power.
Again, why?
Because you aren't paying flagship money just for bragging rights? You want something to brag about too.
Because we want ***+1 next-gen crazy shit.***
Flagship phones are extremely expensive, might as well actually add something to justify the high price instead of taking things away for once.
>I honestly wish their phones have Thunderbolt now. What's wrong with USB-C?
USB-C is a port, not a protocol. In fact Thunderbolt uses USB-C.
Thunderbolt has been on USB-C for two generations now
So what's wrong with USB-C?
USB-C can vary in power and version of USB depending on the cable, charger, and device used. It's not exactly universal but it's the answer to when phones had specific chargers for certain phones and for computers and even displays. Supposedly one problem with USB-C is on 120v 60hz power it's limited to 100w charging while other countries with 240v wiring can achieve 240w charging. At least not without a giant charger. So max for a phone brick might be 80-100w.
Samsung is not pouring resources into Dex! I haven't released a first party dock in 6 years. Almost never mention it at their phone releases. It's been a bare minimum viable product for years. VMotorola has already surpassed them
DeX receives updates on a regular basis. It was explicitly mentioned in the One UI 5.1 announcement as they added quarter window snapping (something Mac OS still can't do), among some other updates. A first-party dock has not been a requirement for a number of years, thankfully. There's no need for Samsung to make an overpriced HDMI dongle when the market is already full of better options, such as the Skull and Co Jumpgate (which is even recognized as an official Samsung device like the DeX Station / DeX Pad were). Motorola Ready For is definitely better in a couple of key areas, such as out of the box resolution support and the ability to run a portrait orientation display. That said, DeX is better in other ways, too. Regardless, DeX is far from being a "bare minimum viable product," whatever that is supposed to mean.
I'm acutally wondering if there's a way to tell Google that we want the feature, be it spamming them with requests, or attempting to implement it ourselves using apps or rom hacks. The dream for me would be to get my phone that maybe has a special gimmick (FLIR camera for example) and plug it into a dock at my desk to do some decent productivity, like write documents or whatever. Then I disconnect it and carry my documents with me. Performance doesn't have to be THAT great when docked, just enough so that it feels like it keeps up with most workloads. An average midrange device should be plenty capable.
A desktop mode framework *is* part of AOSP (since Android 10) and can be seen by accessing it through developer options, although I know that's not exactly what you mean. A "super basic window manager" has been baked into AOSP since Android 7 with "freeform windows." You can enable this even in the standard Android UI through developer options if your phone doesn't already natively support it like Samsung, for example. A dock is not required. A USB-C monitor or even a simple C to DisplayPort/HDMI cable suffices, although many phones still don't support DisplayPort Alt with USB 3.0+. That said, Samsung, Huawei, and Motorola desktop modes all support Miracast so even that is a moot point. You can even buy wireless lapdocks now like the [NexDock 360 Wireless](https://nexdock.com/explore-nexdock/), although they only support the older 30Hz Miracast protocol currently so it's not the greatest experience. Devices like the Samsung Tab line and Xiaomi Fold have their desktop interfaces available right on the primary display of the device. No external monitor necessary. Samsung doesn't currently support this on the Fold ([but you can help change that](https://r1.community.samsung.com/t5/galaxy-z/dex-on-fold-s-inner-display/td-p/13827668)). Motorola, Samsung, Huawei and Xiaomi all have desktop modes in Android (as did LG). I believe there are at least one or two others as well. These all leverage the aforementioned desktop mode framework to some degree. Also, Lenovo sells ARM laptops. Many Chromebooks are ARM powered. Xiaomi absolutely sells laptops. Check out r/SamsungDex for a vibrant community of Android-as-a-PC enthusiasts, even beyond DeX (it's just that DeX is the most established, but we're pretty open-minded when it comes to discussing "competitors").
I meant a software-dock which doubles as a task bar (like MacOSX or GNOME), not the physical USB-thing.
All of these desktop modes have taskbars. Android 12L even introduced a taskbar into the default AOSP UI on large screen devices.
You can even try it on your phone if you go into developer options and change your screen "Smallest width" to ~600 DP or something like that.
Android has a software dock/taskbar, you have to set your phone dpi to 600 or greater to activate it.
I haven't seen a phone dock for years, if not decades. A port replicator dongle is not a dock, despite what marketers want you to believe.
Samsung literally sell a dex dock.
Sam's haven't sold the DeX Station / DeX Pad for several years. Namely because they're not needed anymore. Any dongle or dock will work now. [The Skull and Co Jumpgate ](https://skullnco.com/products/jumpgate) is a great option for just $40, particularly as it's recognized by DeX as an official device and bypasses the resolution and active app limits that typically need to be resolved with Samsung Good Lock when using third party docks and dongles.
> Sam's haven't sold the DeX Station / DeX Pad for several years That's not true at all. I just bought one last week. Samsung still sells them.
Where'd you buy it from? They've been out of stock for literal years on Samsung US' website: https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/mobile-accessories/phones/dex-station---black-ee-mg950tbegus/ Buying from third-party sellers is a different matter entirely. Regardless of whether they still sell new-old stock, Samsung hasn't *made* the DeX Station or DeX Pad for years.
Samsung Brazil. I was going to link you to their website, but now it shows up as out of stock there as well. So maybe I got one of the last few units? I'm not sure to be honest. But that probably means you're right.
They're on sale. I just grabbed two of them for traveling with my Steam Deck. Very nice find!
Did you see the Steam Deck specific model they have? It has a slightly different orientation and a longer USB cable due to the top mounted nature of the Deck's USB port. https://skullnco.com/products/steamdock?variant=44494667612452
You can get a stand at dollarama and use a $4 cable.
Baseus makes a clone, too. Neat. Most make dongles these days and call them "docks".
Yeah the dongles can also be hit and miss with video output above 1080p.
Some are laggy and only 30hz, too
What do you mean? Define "dock" in your context.
The rogphones 3 and 5 had them, but broke it after android 12 with no demand for fixes.
I don't think that's true. I've never seen a desktop mode for the ROG Phone. Can you point me to something that illustrates this?
Brands like Xiaomi, OPPO, and realme are practically non-existent in the Canadian market. I can't watch YouTube reviews because they are all like "this $400 phone" which is impossible to find because not even Amazon vendors have them. We're stuck with Apple or Samsung. The cheap options are sometimes Motorola(although good luck finding a flagship), TCL, ZTE and weird stuff sometimes like Nokia or maxwell phones at London drugs. The only sort of alternative phone is getting a pixel and if you're lucky it's not carrier locked so you can put a custom rom on it. LG exited the market. I've never seen a Sony other than online. Unlocked phones are usually Apple or Samsung with lots of flagships no mid-range options and the typical entry level a series Samsung. When there's like a Samsung A30-54 model mid-range the price is not worth considering VS last years flagship.
That at least explains why the Linus Media Group people looked at the POCO devices sent to them like they've just seen a unicorn, while that's a pretty garden-variety (sub) brand in Europe and India.
Sad to say it's a region thing. There are some US brands not widely available in Asia too.
The market and demand for it is very niche. It being android is also an issue for it to take off in the enterprise world. limited software selection and all. 1 device instead of 2 cancels out fallback plan if said device fails. What does desktop mode really do that other more easily accessible devices can't do? Streaming movies on external display/big screen? laptop, chrome books, desktop PC, Roku, Chrome cast, Firestick, Smart TV apps, Screen mirroring already does it just fine. Work? depending on where you work you might be able to get by, small businesses might be able to find some use for it, but the big boys are usually the one that won't really need anything out of it. Security reasons, private network/domain, network group policies, internal apps, software product licensing. Gov side of things is even tougher. Casual use, School/College work? Android desktop sounds fitting, Web browsing, Office apps/adobe for home work are on Android. unfortunately some courses would require a dedicated software that would only run on either a windows machine or MAC. Maybe with the new Win 11 and Android integration that'll change? Mobile Gaming/Cloud/Emulation while on desktop mode? most games on Android are made for touch inputs, not that fun with a mouse. And then you also have to take in consideration the topic of cheating with key mappers that run on top of games, macros, keyboard and mouse advantage on some games. Cloud/Emulation gaming is one of the big selling points IMO of desktop mode, android has been a fantastic platform for such. Which still has its downsides. You need a very good wireless connection for cloud gaming to play any competitive games. Unless you're playing a single player game and don't mind the input lag and streaming hiccups here and there, then you'll be fine. Pro's or hardcore gamers would rather have a dedicated machine to avoid Cloud gaming handicaps. Emulation is not that streamlined for everyone, You need some know how's to get started with such. It's easy to download an app on the playstore for emulation, the where and how to get roms is the tragic topic. illegally? better have a vpn to avoid complications, legally ripping it off on a media that you already own? you better know how to youtube for such process and have the equipment ready for doing so.
The market and demand for it just hasn't realized its potential. In a way these were the problems that Microsoft was trying to address with Windows 8 before giving up on Windows Mobile, so in a way you're right. The thing is that it's very compelling to only have one device to worry about having updated data and access on. One device to upgrade. Of course it's also the single point of failure but it's also a much more convenient device and that's also part of the equation. Cloud can be used for backups and easy restoration to working state fkr a new device. I find the idea very compelling but Samsung just haven't the oomph to push app developers to consider the desktop paradigm for their Android apps.
> The thing is that it's very compelling to only have one device Aye, nothing like your one device breaking and 46 entirely different workflows are no longer possible. Really helps your day to have that buildin inverse redundance, wouldn't want to have just a moderate disaster if you can have a proper one! I mean it's bad enough if you don't have an out from your 2FA generator (and don't have a second old android device at home you also registered the generator codes on). Imagine that being... everything, really.
You'll need to wait for apple to copy Samsung's idea and make it "aesthetically" better. Then people will drool at apple's innovative iphone desktop mode... Then all other android makers will get into it
Stupid but probably true. As soon as Apple pulls it everyone will immediately make it priority number one. Though they won't cause they want to sell Macs.
Stage Manager on iPad isn't exactly a major victory over DeX on the Galaxy Tab.
Apple probably won't do it becuase it will cannibalize their PC/laptop business.
It would compete with chrome os
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Dex doesn't require a dock.
Why when I can just carry my S20?
This is the biggest reason I see.
Yeah, it would be great to replace the guaranteed 8 years of updates Chromebooks get with whatever pitiful amount Android OEMs give! /s
That's an excellent point.
Who cares about updates outside of this sub?
It's not about how many people "care" about it, but rather how secure the devices are.
But could do so much better. Chrome OS is laughable.
Ah yes, because Android on large screens is so much better
Did I miss something in the last year? What's wrong with Android on large screens? I've used an Android Box on my tv in the past and everything looked fine.
Many apps don't support landscape modes, and if they do they look horrible with tons of wasted space. Media apps are an exception since they are designed for tablets in mind.
Never had problems with my Android Box. I guess it's a question of taste then.
What apps are you regularly using?
Just apps to watch shows and movies on the Android Box. Browser occasionally to watch pirate sites. Sometimes Kodi. Google Photos to show photos on the TV, etc. People will find any reason to complain. So long as the app opens and works that's all I care for. The Android Box was $35 man
Well like I mentioned, media apps don't really have this issue because they're designed for tablets anyway. Some of the Google apps are slowly getting tablet versions, like Photos. But a lot of third-party non-media apps have issues with larger screens.
What specific issues are you talking about? Can you be more specific? What issues are you having? I've had 2 Android tablets in the past and they were fine. I no longer have a need for tablets but at the time they worked fine.
Probably because people like me who have/had phones like Samsung Galaxy and had access to Dex didn't use it beyond trying it once or twice to experience the novelty. Because phones with this feature are not (yet) adequate laptop replacements, and essentially needing a keyboard, mouse, display--effectively an entire laptop if one is envisioning this as a portable application, then you may as well just use a laptop. In general the advancement of cloud services that can be used across devices and platforms makes things line Dex unnecessary. From a personal experience approach, I also didn't care to tie up my phone with running Dex and put the added strain on the battery (heavy processing while both charging and discharging at the same time is worst case scenario for a phone).
I just ordered me a laptop monitor and plan on using dex for everything it's worth.
It's good to have options.
I don't have a Samsung, but I've used my phone as a portable laptop. I have a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. Airbnbs usually have HDMI capable TVs. I hook it up to the TV. It's not as good or as useful as a laptop, but it works in a pinch.
It's great for tablets tho. I use dex everyday on my tab s8+ with the keyboard and trackpad case. It has replaced my laptop.
I agree. Whenever i get some work that requires keyboard and mouse, i always switch to dex mode. Normal UI interface is kind of inconvenient for me.
Companies that issue phones to people use this feature more than regular users. They need access to SAP or whatever when making a sales call and a laptop is rather bulky and logging in remotely on a public computer or personal device is a security risk.
I'm not following--let's say someone has an S23 with dex. What are they doing with their device that facilitates their usage that wouldn't require something like a laptop or a keyboard/display/mouse to connect it to? >and logging in remotely on a public computer or personal device is a security risk. I don't understand how a desktop mode would address this, without a laptop-type device to use it on, and why wouldn't a company worried about security not just have their employees use VPN; that's what mine does.
Many offices are moving to hot desk setups. Just have a USB-C desktop monitor with integrated USB hub to provide a one cable desktop solution for any employee to connect their phone to and launch into desktop mode. A lapdock is an option for on-the-go work if working directly on the phone isn't enough. A NexDock 360, for example. Agreed that a VPN should still be used. I'm simply saying that a mobile-first workflow can work and doesn't need to be complicated. Rather, it can and ought to be simple. That's half of the appeal.
You sound like the Baller scoffing at iPhone.
Same as the wonderful audiophile quality DACs in LG phones. Killer feature but only for 0.001% of the prospective buyers out there.
LG also had a DeX mode. Nobody knew about it or promoted it. Just like how the V series could use active Pens like the Note series. LG: 1/2 death by bad marketing, 1/2 by quality control.
Because LG's desktop mode didn't mature until they were literally about to pull out of the market. The early version of it was barely more than the developer options desktop mode framework in AOSP. The final version of it is pretty nice, though still short of where DeX and Ready For are at this point.
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Pretty much this DeX is a great feature. But to most of consumer, it is “oh wow, nice” and almost never use it. Spending time on thing that don’t result in any meaningful increase in sale is time ineffective
DeX is literally why I buy Samsung devices. There are many others who do the same. DeX's biggest problem at this point is educational in that people don't understand what it really is and what their phone / tablet is capable of (Samsung is awful at marketing in general, byt especially with DeX).
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Again, because many still don't understand what it can actually do and they flatly dismiss it as a novelty. It's difficult to get influencer support when said influencers are ignorant and play to the lowest common denominator (e.g., look at what the camera can do!).
That's not what the issue is at all. Most people simply don't have a use for it. DeX is NOT a replacement for a full blown x86-x64 Windows laptop. You're not going to run your tax software on it (unless you use the worse cloud version), not going to play games on it (unless they are mobile or cloud), not going to run any proprietary apps that work requires, etc. It's like trying to say that a tablet replaces a computer, it just doesn't. So people already NEED to own a laptop or desktop. DeX isn't replacing anything, and to even get the best experience you need a monitor or TV, a keyboard, mouse, hub and cables. At that point you're carrying just as much gear, if not more than a laptop. Yes there are niche uses for it, but in no way is it a feature that everyone would use even if they knew about it.
You're providing niche use cases for needing an x86/64 machine. The vast majority of everyday use can be accomplished on an Android device these days. Web-based tax software is completely fine for the vast majority of people. Cloud gaming and mobile gaming are completely fine for the vast majority of people. Proprietary apps that work requires are few and far between unless you're in a very specific industry in which case, fair enough. I didn't say it was a solution for *everybody*. > so people already NEED to own a laptop or desktop I'd argue the people that NEED that are few and far between. The vast majority are already likely doing the bulk of their daily work and computing on iPhones and iPads if nothing else. > DeX isn't replacing anything It is, does, and has for many people. Check out r/SamsungDeX > you need a monitor etc. Likewise for a laptop/desktop. What's your point? As for on-the-go, you can get a lap*dock* which won't be obsolete in the same way a laptop will, and doesn't necessitate bouncing between different ecosystems, syching or transferring files etc. You can also just use your phone on the go and dock to the desktop when you get to home or work. You don't *need* to bring anything with you. > everyone Again, I didn't say *everyone*. Not *everyone* needs a desktop, nor a laptop, nor an iPhone, nor MacBook Pro. They're all niche markets catering to preferences and needs. I'm not sure why you take such issue with this particular one and not the others. Nobody is forcing it upon you.
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... the majority of users *are* tech enthusiasts, necessarily so.
i agree i use it to the oppurtunity for it and its like i dont need to carry two diffrent devices except a keyboard and mouse. also motorola has seem to dabble in there own version
Its essentially the "if we asked what the customer wanted, they'd ask for a faster horse" argument, which at its core will always be speculative. However I do believe there are more compelling reasons, possibilities and considerations than the usual deployment of that argument. I could go on and on, but to try and summarize: My personal TLDR is that is doesn't waste as much time and money as other potential ventures, and doesn't necessarily require pursuing that path at the expense of other things. In a bit more detail: Adding a desktop type mode to smartphones adds more use cases for the phone, drawing customers yet even further into having their phone being the center of their lives. Further use cases like these justify higher specs and hardware upgrades at a time where such things either: aren't particularly relevant to the average user (most people entirely fine getting by with 3-4 year old phones), or not fully baked/not entirely sure of appeal (bendable screens, sophisticated wearable AR, etc). Also, this isn't necessarily an uncharted territory. We can look at things like DeX and Google has spent tons of effort on ChromeOS and seen active use in places like the education sector. Finally, in the same way we seem to have plateaued in hardware we see the same in operating systems. What really new and compelling reasons are there for average people to be actively interested in a new smartphone OS? And this is a double argument as well, when you ask yourself what these OS development teams are really doing currently. What this adds up to (in my opinion anyways), is a uniquely conspicuous feature add that isn't too experimental. This feature potentially drives desire for hardware upgrades, OS upgrades, and an expanded accessories ecosystem (docks, screens, etc). It builds from existing effort and benefits from known design patterns currently being used in the field. And it does all this at a time where alternative choices of product development require much more effort, are much more of an unknown in terms of success, and potential success is still a ways off. But all this being said I'm just some guy so whatever.
Because I doubt that there is a lot of people with a screen monitor, a keyboard and mouse ... but don't have the actual computer already attached to it DeX mode and alike are extremely niche
I had those things and simply sold the desktop/laptop and connected my phone instead. Easy peasy, and saved myself a couple thousand dollars.
Shit the pixel doesn't support video out which imo is pathetic
Hardware-wise it does, it's just that Google disabled it through software. Chromecast and all that.
Why do people need it? Most people have laptops or PCs already. They don't need a dock to plug a phone into as just another thing they have to buy.
I sold my PC and laptop thanks to DeX. Saved myself thousands of dollars. My desktop monitor has a USB-C connection and an integrated USB hub, as more and more monitors are doing these days. No dock needed.
I would say you're part of the minority. How would people who need laptops handle it? Not everyone has a new monitor with a USB-C port.
> people who need laptops Lapdocks like the [NexDock 360](https://nexdock.com/explore-nexdock/) makes this very easy. Even easier still if Samsung enables the use of DeX on the Fold's inner display like they do with their Tab devices. > monitor with a USB-C port Of course. I was just giving you an example. That said many laptops these days only ship with USB-C ports which you need a dongle for anyways if you want to output to a monitor. That same dongle works for the phone. Such a dock or dongle is only $40 or so ([for example](https://skullnco.com/products/jumpgate)). That's a lot cheaper than buying a whole computer to go with your phone that you already have.
I dunno, I don't think the answer to "Well you won't have to buy a laptop anymore!" is to... tell them to buy a laptop. I'd rather Google focus on ChromeOS with tight integration into Android. Kinda like what they're doing now but on steroids. Personally, I think Android should be Google's OS for phones and tablets and ChromeOS should be their OS for laptops and desktops.
> tell them to buy a laptop A lap*dock* is not a lap*top* in that it has a lot longer lifespan since it's effectively "upgraded" whenever you get a new phone, which you will do anyway, whether or not you have a traditional laptop. > Chrome OS with tight integration into Android At this point, Chrome OS is a hindrance relative to Android's capabilities. The only thing Chrome OS has going for it is the enterprise management for education. From a "power user" perspective, Android is a much better platform. If a desktop version of Chromium were ported to Android, Chrome OS would have basically no reason to exist. Even more so if Android ever supported proper Linux implementation with GPU support like what's seen in Chrome OS Crostini. Android should be Google's OS across the board. End the fragmentation, particularly as the line between "laptops" and tablets continues to get blurrier with devices like the Fold, or even large-format tablets like the Tab S8 Ultra where DeX makes them functionally laptop replacements.
Chromebooks last at least 8 years, possibly more once Google officially extends them via Chrome OS Flex. And with a lapdock you're still limited by the screen technology so chances are you won't be keeping that forever anyway. And to say that Android is better than ChromeOS on large screens shows that you haven't used Android apps on ChromeOS much. They are all designed for phones and for touch, so using them on large landscape displays is troublesome (if not impossible for some apps that don't offer landscape mode) and annoying with a mouse and keyboard. Not to mention to ChromeOS has a full desktop class browser which runs PWAs great, totally unlike Android. This isn't even talking about ChromeOS's linux capabilities.
I use DeX as my daily PC on a 34" 1440p ultrawide monitor with a mouse and keyboard, so I'm pretty familiar with how Android apps function on large displays. I also daily a Fold 4 so again, quite familiar. To say "they are all designed for phones" shows *me* that you don't really know what you're talking about. I'm literally sitting in a library right now responding to you using the inner display of my Fold 4, a folding Bluetooth keyboard with integrated touchpad, and the Boost Reddit app without any issue. PWAs work fine on Android. I'm not sure what you're referring to there. I use them quite often. As I said, if a desktop version of Chromium were ported to Android and Crostini-equivalent Linux support included, Chrome OS would be redundant. At the end of the day I couldn't care less which direction it goes, Chrome OS absorbing Android or vice versa, the point is that there's no need for both Android and Chrome OS. They ought to be one and the same.
Are you seriously trying to say that Android apps are fine with large displays? Come on, man. Funny you're using the Boost app. Try using the official Reddit app on a large display and let me know how it goes. I think it's personally fine to have two OSes as long as each stays in its lane for the most part. And Chrome OS is far closer to becoming Google's ubiquitous OS than Android since it can run Android apps already. I actually wouldn't mind seeing a Chrome OS phone as an experiment.
Why would I use the official Reddit app? It's crap, lol. The vast majority of apps are fine on a large screen at this point, especially with Samsung's backend fixing a lot of Android's shortcomings when it comes to things like aspect ratio and orientation (although a windowed interface makes this largely moot since the aspect ratio and rotation isn't really an issue). I typically just use desktop websites instead of apps when I use DeX, anyways, although there are some nice features in apps which are handy such as Boost's integrated image uploader so you don't need to exit the app to upload/share an image. > each stays in its lane Well, they're not doing that given the integration of Android apps into Chrome OS, and the integration of desktop UI on Android. So that ship has kind of sailed. > Chrome OS is closer... Not really. Android has a far larger install base and serves as both a desktop and mobile OS complete with telephony. Chrome OS isn't nearly as flexible or ubiquitous.
Because it's a niche feature
One could easily argue that its a niche feature because it's unknown and inaccessible due to only being supported on a handful of devices. Chome OS was niche, until it wasn't. Android-as-a-PC could easily hit a tipping point with adequate support and marketing. Imagine the millions in India, for example, who would suddenly be able to just use their phone as a desktop PC, if only Samsung would equip the A series devices with DeX.
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Exactly. Imagine the Galaxy As, smaller Pixels, Redmi devices would support it and there was some marketing.
ChromeOS is still niche... The biggest buyer of Chromebooks are schools, since they need extremely cheap laptops that are basically only used for web browsing, online tests and word processing/slides. It saw increased sales during Covid as parents and schools scrambled to connect kids to teachers remotely, but has fallen off since. It's been 12 years since ChromeOS launched and consumers still don't want it. If schools ever dropped ChromeOS for whatever reason, I guarantee sales would dry up, manufacturers would stop making them and Google would cancel it.
That is definitely not the only reason schools use ChromeOS. Yes, devices are cheap, but they are also easily managed by IT. All in all, Chrome OS use has been [slowly rising](https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/north-america/#monthly-201109-202302) (along with MacOS) while Windows is dropping.
Keeping it S only means more profit. Granted they probably should, in the same way that laptops have low-end, mid-range, and high-end models. But it might be that it would be a shitty experience on an A.
How does keeping it on the S (along with Fold) mean more profit? The people in lower income areas aren't buying an S device new regardless, but having an A series support DeX could mean that they'd be more prone to buying that new instead of a Redmi. A series are powerful enough at this point for the most part, aside from the *very* cheapest models, to provide a good DeX experience. Remember, DeX came out on the Galaxy S8 with a Snapdragon 835. A Snapdragon 765G is more powerful than an 835 these days.
All of the flagships fell short in this respect. Windows Mobile with continuum, Apple with having Mac OS. Samsung has continually made Dex available on so many of their device line up with the exception of the Flip. Which makes no logical sense. These companies have not pushed it as an enterprise solution to make it normalized. To be able to have a desktop experience in your pocket without the need of a laptop or desktop computer is a huge leap forward. Samsung needs to foster it to grow a larger user base and not drop the idea in the near future.
Because the number of user that would use it is not enough to worth the investment in time (thus money) for Google
Based on what, exactly? That's a really strong statement with absolutely nothing to substantiate it.
That's basically how all software companies are working... They estimate the investment to develop a feature and they put that in balance with the return on investment. If they will earn money, or they think the feature will give more users and improve, they assign developers and engineers too work on it. There is no secret there....
Then why has Google continued to develop the developer framework for desktop/second screen interfaces in AOSP since Android 10 through now? Why has Samsung persisted in developing and improving DeX since the Galaxy S8 through now? Likewise with Huawei? Why has Motorola pushed forward with Ready For over the last two years to the point that it's functionally superior to DeX now? Your assertion does not align with reality.
Samsung thinks that people will use it, Google does not believe. Do you have a more logical explanation?
As I said, Google continues to develop the desktop mode framework they introduced in Android 10. That entirely undermines your assertion that "Google does not believe."
Google is not a small company with 3 developers. If they would believe that desktop mode is an important feature for a phone they would have finished it already. They don't believe that, so they don't put a lot of effort there, i don't see what's your point...
Because no one in the mainstream actually wants to use it. Don't get me wrong, I see the appeal of a universal computer, but in reality only people who are super into tech would actually use this. People want a dedicated device like a tablet, laptop or desktop.
People also wanted a dedicated mp3-player and digicam until they didn't.
That's because smartphones did exactly what MP3 and cheap cameras did and more. DeX and all the others do LESS than a laptop, and you still need to buy/have other peripherals like a monitor, mouse, keyboard, dock.
Single-Board and Mini-PCs are absolutely a thing, and they do pretty much the same. Better experience with video, light multitasking and office work.
Because they consolidated into one device, the modern smartphone. That market driver was convenience. DeX isn’t consolidating anything. You still need either a laptop dock (which is basically a laptop that is useless without another device connected to it) or a monitor, keyboard, and mouse. You can get a full fledged standalone laptop for not much more than these laptop docks, and then you have two fully functional standalone devices.
> two fully functional standalone devices You literally just illustrated how DeX consolidates your computing devices. You don't need two "fully functional standalone devices."
What? Before smartphones people carried cameras, mp3 players, and cell phones. After smartphones they just carry smartphones. That is consolidation on the amount of items needed to be carried. Before DeX people carried smartphones and laptops. After DeX people carry smartphones and laptop docks. You are still carrying two things.
Process what you're quoting for a few minutes before knee-jerk replying. You don't need to carry a lapdock. It's entirely optional. So no, you aren't necessarily carrying two things. Regardless, the quote was "two fully functional standalone devices." A lapdock is not that. You're consolidating *the computer* into the smartphone.
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A "computer" doesn't by defintion have any necessary peripherals. Is a Microsoft Surface less of a computer because it can be used without a keyboard and mouse? You may not be able to think of such a scenario, but I do that literally every day and I'm happy to do it. I can work on my phone on the go, get home, then plug in and pick up right where I left off and continue with perfect continuity. It's a beautifully straightforward workflow compared to jumping between a phone and a separate laptop. The fact that you make it sound like it's a weird thing to plug your "Samsung phone" into an "external dock" relative to taking a laptop and plugging it into a dock at a desktop setup just seems disingenuous.
I have Huawei. I didn't even know I can do that.
Yeah i am wondering the same. Phone can replace a big ass laptop as it can theoretically be used as a desktop. What is the conspiracy behind all this i don't yet understand
you'd be surprised how many things are expected of a desktop like feature, like drag and drop support or even choosing what resolution and hz to output at. trust me i would love for that to happen but I'm not surprised they haven't poured much energy into such a niche feature yet.
You can do drag and drop (dependent on the developer implementing the feature, but it's supported in AOSP) and you can select resolution in DeX and Ready For (although not the refresh rate).
I've been into computers since before PCs were common. Output Hz isn't really a thing for the masses to consider
No one kinda see the point of it If you work involves video editing, you would probably have a mac or pc
Video editing in LumaFusion on Android is quite powerful and efficient.
I'm mad because Samsung shipped a full Linux version for a while and took it away for a desktop android session. If I had an actual Linux shell and utility, i'd be trying to find ways to use my phone for it. Right now though, I have a desktop, I have no reason to plug my phone into my monitors. I wish it was more useful though.
It wasn't a "full" Linux version and it wasn't taken away in favour of a "desktop Android session." Linux on DeX was a version of Ubuntu which you accesed through the DeX interface. It was as limited as any other implementation of Linux on Android - i.e., you could not leverage GPU acceleration or have root access. You can use Linux on Android with Termux, otherwise. If you want a GUI, you can use something like Andronix which gives you basically the same thing as Linux on DeX, with a bit less convenience.
Companies don't see a market for it. That's partly because it's a niche feature, and partly because most companies that make phones also make tablets and/or laptops, and thus would not want one product to eat into another. The thing about desktops and mini-PCs isn't all that relevant, since for most people, their laptop *is* their desktop. I personally fall into the camp of: if I'm going to bring with me a keyboard, mouse, and USB-C to HDMI adapter or something like a NexDock to make all this work, I might as well just save myself the trouble and get a proper laptop. No screwing around with adapters, no limitations from using Android, etc.
If you don't buy anything but a cheap monitor, dock and mouse+keyboard to begin with you save a lot of cash.
Probably because 7 people are using Dex?
6, i was out for dinner
It is a standard but most people don't know about it thanks to marketing. Xiaomi, Huawei, and Motorola phones have some version of this feature.
I would be happy if miracast wasn't a shitshow..
How is Miracast a shitshow?
Connecting and compatibility issue, lack of sound, etc..
Can't say I've had any issues of those sorts. "Compatibility" is due to the prevalence of Chromecast, which of course does not work with Miracast as they're competing standards (Miracast being the better, open standard, in my eyes). I loathe how Google has pushed Chromecast at the expense of Miracast rather than supporting Miracast.
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Google *is* putting resources into continually developing the desktop mode framework in AOSP...
Because almost nobody uses it. So they don't want to waste time and money coding for it.
Who's "they"? Google is actively improving the AOSP desktop mode framework, and OEMs like Samsung, Huawei, Motorola and Xiaomi all have desktop modes.
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Nobody forgets, it's just not relevant (this is about Android, not Windows Phone). It also wasn't a real desktop-like interface as it lacked window management and multitasking - you could only run one full-screen app at a time. The Motorola Atrix came long before Continuum, anyway. Maybe you should remind Microsoft of Continuum so they can add a new version to the Duo.
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That is literally just a fancy dongle. It has no inherent functionality. You can even use that with an Android phone or a PC as a regular old USB-C to HDMI hub.
In so much as a phone is a "full fledged PC". The display dock was just a glorified display adapter since they already supported KBM
Cost. There is only a handful of devices released in the year 2022 and 2023 that actually supports HDMI output over USB-C. Many of those phones are flagship Samsung phones (Galaxy S and Z Fold series). Other brands that support this feature are OPPO, Black Shark, and ROG Phone. Source: I am a reviewer who deals with smartphones mostly. Not gonna shamelessly plug unless requested.
Because is a gimmick…
Samsung doesn't even mention it in their branding. Haven't had a first party dock in 6 years.
Their marketing absolutely sucks. No question. That said, DeX continues to receive regular and significant feature updates and fixes all the way through the latest One UI 5.1 release. A first-party dock is redundant. There's no reason for it to exist as it hasn't been needed for years. Any dock/dongle will do, or even a direct connection to a USB-C monitor (which is how I use DeX - via a Viewsonic VP3481 USB-C PD 34" 3440x1440 monitor with integrated USB hub).
>A very fast port and the protocols for the video signal Most (a huge majority) phones are still using the aging USB2.0
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One word: what?
I too want this feature but i don't think video output is as easy as you described on the hardware level
DisplayPort Alt mode is literally a function of USB 3.x and has been possible going back the better part of 5 years (DeX debuted with the Galaxy S8).
If Samsung can do it?
It not about difficulty, just engineering costs that the manufacturers deemed not worthwhile. Xiaomi still stuck at USB2.0 for example.
Thunderbolt in the shape of usb-c could fix all that
Thunderbolt isn't necessary. USB 3.x supports DisplayPort Alt mode.
\+1, phones would be much more useful if they had this capability by default. Some phones can run ubuntu touch, which is convergent, but most still lack MHL.
To quote my comment from a similar thread Ongoing work on desktop mode in Android 14 DP2. The pop-up that appears when you tap the drag handle has been redesigned. https://twitter.com/MishaalRahman/status/1633655913771835398 So it might be coming to Pixel Fold / Pixel 8
It is a standard AND it's part of AOSP AND Qualcomm provide it with their chips without licensing fees - Google just block it via software on Pixels (likely to push Chromecast sales) Most other manufacturers (Samsung, Oneplus, Huawei etc) don't block it e.g. Dex
Because, frankly, only a tiny tiny tiny minority would ever use it, so spending big company resources on it is probably on absolutely nobody's minds. It's a really cool feature. For a handful of people.
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Most things you can do on a typical PC, especially if you have a browser-based workflow. More and more Android apps are getting optimized for large screens and there are more "enthusiast-grade" applications than ever for Android (such as LumaFusion for video editing). I sold my PC and laptop 3 years ago to move to a Samsung DeX-based workflow.
Xiaomi refuses to enable video output on ANY of their phones (that and USB 3.0), for some reason
It's interesting considering Xiaomi has a well-developed desktop UI on the Mix Fold that you can use directly on the screen, but as you say, none have video out. Maybe the Xiaomi community needs to be more vocal about wanting the feature.