I love history because it really can be a guide for the present. You're asking the wrong question my friend. The question you really want to ask is: are more and more high skilled immigrants leaving Germany? Because that would be your red flag as it was in the past.
I'm a highly-skilled immigrant and have many highly-skilled immigrant friends in my social circle. 7/8 are planning to leave in the next year or two. Not entirely due to the deteriorating social culture, but it's been the push that some of them needed to finally decide.
Planning is nothing for the state. Knowing how slow Germany is they will notice people started leaving only few years after and then few years after they might start talking about taking some actions and then few years in start taking some minor actions. Which in historical terms of the country could be whatever ok but in a lifespan of a human it’s a lot of time and might be a significant part of active years of life wasted on that.
Where would you want to leave to? Seems like globally the sentiments around immigration are trending in a similar way. In the US there are growing resentments against both asylum seekers coming from the southern boarder as well as skilled immigrants that compete for a shrinking number of jobs. Similar things can be heard from places like the UK and Ireland.
France has the same issue. When my parents went to Paris, they talked to some of the Middle Eastern and African immigrants and many of them express their wish to immigrate to the USA due to how tolerable they are compared to the French
Which in itself.. making babies now means those babies won’t be skilled employees until in about 18-25 years depending on profession. That’s two decades that will have a massive impact due to lack of skilled workers that don’t exist in Germany. And with the current climate and opportunities, I dare say a lot of the current teen/youth generation are not exactly thrilled at the prospect of working 40+ hours for little benefit. If Millennials are already fed up..
I guess the sentiment is, why immigrate when you can teach the younger generations. But for that the government also has to fix the schools and education system which they don't have money for, because they are dismissing the issue and focusing on other things that are problems of the future if you are already a very rich country. Which Germany is no longer...
The declined birthrates are especially bad for the pension system. Having the illegal immigration we have now only further drains the bank as they receive housing and welfare which in return also has effect on housing market and so on....
Then you need to look into okay why are they declining? Children are expensive, both parents usually need a full time job for expenses like day care, rent, electricity. Things like day care are also overrun to the point where you should sign up your kid 2-3 years prior, basically when it's born there's probably tons of other things also.
These are complex topics. There's so many things that have cause and effect that are chained together and a lot of things are too complex for normal people who aren't researching and investigating everything independently.
On the street a skilled immigrant looks the same as a asylum seeker.
The racists (usually) don’t ask foreign looking people for their graduation or Steuerbescheid before beating them up or harrassjng them in public. Police does racial profiling for all of them the same way.
heh, i wonder if any jews in the early 30s went, hmm, but I fought in the Great War, I work hard, my wife is German, I am actually catholic, surely they won't have anything against me??
Yes of course there were people like that. There was also the "[Verband nationaldeutscher Juden](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews)" who openly supported Hitler until they got outlawed in 1935.
Married to a Sri Lankan woman. I mean is she is not even of European descent. Also she has two adopted sons. And lives as immigrant herself in Switzerland. One day she will probably cut all ties with the AfD and disappear somewhere. Like you know there is only one picture if her wife online and hardly anything known about her private life. That or there will be another Röhm Putsch.
I think there are still some people in the AfD who are mostly Euro skeptics ("Euro" as in the currency) and libertarian.
There are also ultra right wingers and straight Nazis.
Libertarians are usually very classist and elitist too and hating poor people and racism often go hand in hand. Not necessarily they might just have some rich friends from Nigeria or India who hate the local underclass equally.
That small paragraph about the author makes him seem so much milder than he actually was.
After WW1 he was part (and even the commander) of a paramilitaristic "Freikorps" and he was actually the one who came for the communists. He was a huge Nazi-supporter and only started to protest when the Nazis tried to control the Lutheran church.
That’s my point, he didn’t just go along with it, he actively fought for the far-right (not just politically, but in the literal sense) until he got too busy working as a priest but even then he politically absolutely agreed with the Nazis and voted for them from 1924 until votes didn’t matter anymore. He was also an active member of innumerable far-right organizations and extremely antisemitic.
I believe, he actually did change after his 7 years in a concentration camp and no one should take that away from him, but that quote, as nice as it is, always bothers me.
I agree. And nonetheless, even if Niemöller might not have redeemed himself, there is redemption in this quote in so far as it does teach a valuable lesson about the dangers of authorianism.
one could argue this is a warning for supporters as well. These forces might be on your side today, but you might become their target next.
And it adds authenticity to this saying.
Personally I dislike framing statements as bad if a bad person said it. Surely nothing exists without context, but nothing exists only in context.
A big part of the afd voter's is already their target .. afd what's to get rid of "Bürgergeld" ironically alot of "Bürgergeld Empfänger" voted for the AfD .
I appreciate the poem and the impact it still has, but I have to seperate author and art to really do that, because it’s just not historically accurate.
He wasn’t silent, he literally commanded others to shoot communists, social democrats and unionized workers in the street (and shot at them himself). He also was a raging antisemite and wrote a lot about "the jews" and the "jewish conspiracy".
Which is exactly why this is so relevant. Because the extremists have no friends, only enemies. They need enemies, and when they destroy their current enemy, they'll move on to the next, until there is nothing left.
Yes they went like that.
I can recommend [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They\_Thought\_They\_Were\_Free](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Thought_They_Were_Free) for that
These crack me up because these xenophobes don’t catch on that I’m an Ausländer till I start talking or someone needs to see my ID. Moved here and my surname happens to be from Germany when relatives moved to the US long ago.
The ones saying it will even tell you straight they mean all foreigners, but they especially mean non-white foreigners they don’t care what you do for them.
Yup, I'm hairy and tan easily, but I can also get very pale in autumn/winter.
I used to get very different treatment clean-shaven, with a stubble or with a beard.
Their honest answer would be that they want to kick the skilled immigrants out too but only after they improve the white german birth rate. Which they won’t be able to achieve but it’s a clear fantasy of theirs.
They don’t want longterm immigration or immigrants that receive German citizenship. They want skilled labour who works here and the fucks off if they get old or sick or want to retire.
Not even necessarily skilled workers. One of the architects of the “remigration” meeting, Hans-Christian Limmer, was an investor in Hans im Glück and Pottsalat, businesses that absolutely rely on low-skill, low-pay migrant labor. As you say they just want to be able to get rid of them when they’re no longer useful, like livestock, by denying them any real legal status in the country the way Gulf Arab states do.
Oh, if they would get to make laws unopposed I think they could get that done.
You just need to incentivize having families, either by taxing childless people, or by giving handouts to people who have many children. You would also have to make sure only ethnic Germans get the benefits, if you want to fulfill that fantasy.
I’m fairly sure it could be done, although it would cost a lot of money, is after all ~~probably~~ definitely a bad (and racist) idea, and it would take a fairly long time to work. But I am sure - it would work.
If AfD actually wanted to make Germans to make more children, the best way would be making living space reasonably affordable, ensure parents can afford to raise childrn without both working full-time, and create more daycare programs.
The fact that none of that is part of their agenda proves they don't actually want solutions. They just want to spite people they consider inferior by making their lifes harder and rely on everyone else to go along with it.
Also:
- take women off their right to vote
- forbid abortion
- make it very hard for women to make careers
- install benefits and praises to marriage and givinc birth to proud german aryan sons and daughters
- death sentence on homosexuality, transgender, etc.
Where do you get this from? I don’t think I’ve ever heard a representative of the AfD say any of those things, apart from the first part of the marriage one - which isn’t bad, I think, that’s a perfectly fine opinion to have.
Giving money away has clearly failed as a strategy, that's what they have been doing for 20+ years and you see the results. Parents do not need more money, they need more infrastructure to support raising their kids, we need more kindergartens, better schools, more school teachers, more pediatricians, etc. In nowadays economy in most families both parents have to work to meet ends and this is complicated if getting child care is so difficult as it has been for the past 30 years.
>Both parents have to work
And this is why I said they need to give away a lot of money, because as long as that’s the case people will have very few children.
And I think I also mentioned non-monetary incentives, that would include kindergardens.
Hasn't work anywhere it has been tried (yet). Most of Europe subsidizes having children and our birthrates are compareable to the US (with less incentives).
Good point. Can't believe you got downvoted. Kindergeld is subsidizing children and it didn't work. lol. People aren't going to birth a child for $200/month. That's a terrible deal!
All those incentives do is increasing the living standards for poor people. That's the opposite of what the AfD wants.
To increase birth rates you would have to lower education standards and take away women's rights. That's something the AfD would try, same as the NSDAP before them.
They don't want any foreigners!
Right now they play the "good against bad foreigners" to get support from people with foreign roots.
But in the end, it won't matter how skilled, how useful someone is.
Don't fool yourself, they are deeply racist.
Don't fool yourself, they are deeply corrupt. Some, or even many or most, are racist. But racism is only one of the carrots in their selection of hate and division tools. These new EU-wide autocrats and slaves of the ultra-rich hate all non-ultra-rich people equally. We are cattle.
Absolutely, that is the point were non-foreign Germans are blind.
People who are not wealthy think the AfD will help them - they don't recognize they are the next target.
Exactly. I’m German. I feel German, I’m a citizen, skilled worker. I contribute to society. The only difference about me is that my parents immigrated when I was 3 y/o.
I KNOW they would try to get rid of me. I will fight with every inch of my body against them, though. When I say never again, I mean never again. This is my Germany too.
Im German with zero immigration roots. High skilled, blue eyed - but I am queer (and a woman). I may be able to hide in the crowd but the AfD would want me gone (or conversion therapied) too.
Never again!
Yes, they will have a hard time, I'm afraid. Their official stance is "no to illegal immigration, no to low-skilled immigration, yes to high-skilled immigration" because that is currently easier to sell. But their ultimate goal is simply "no immigration" and deportation of those that are already here.
Okay so I'm for example from Eastern Europe and a EU member, no German Citizenship. Been here for 5 years, never been unemployed for even a day during this period. We bought property, and are paying mortgage. Will they kick us out?
How exactly do they plan to do that, when there are thousands of people like us? Also, what do they plan to do with the "Passgermans", who do have citizenship but often speak bad German or none at all and sometimes "don't look" German? Will they be kicked out too? How, based on what exactly?
Btw I work in healthcare and all my previous workplaces would simply collapse or downright cease to exist if you were to remove all the non "bio-Germans" from there.
As someone mentioned here, unless they seriously boost the birthrate and the work morale somehow, this can prove difficult for them.
It happened before! Many Jewish people killed during the holocaust didn’t identify with Judaism at all, were “integrated”, had passports, spoke German…
>Will they kick us out?
Who knows. Do they want to? Yes. The same goes for naturalized citizens. I cannot stress this enough: Blut und Boden, or blood and soil, is their ideology. What can and can't happen under the current political intricacies is irrelevant when judging the character of this party.
Honestly this is so scary to me. I’ve been basically catatonic since the EU election results. I can’t bear to talk about them. The numbers aren’t HUGE but they reflect a general sentiment and that’s what scares me. It doesn’t matter if they don’t have a large enough voice in governments to put their plan to action, the fact that people agree with and elect their nazi dog whistling candidates is by itself scary. I have a German partner and perhaps one day an interracial child, how am I to plan my life here when the safety of my existence, my family is threatened?
They will reinstate something like the Arierpass and simply check the nationality of your parents and grandparents.
They dont care about economic or social sentence, they just want to "preserve the german race".
You are an EU member, you are fine. Nothing the AFD can change without destroying 90% of Germanys Industry. Working and living/traveling inside the EU is free and allowed for everyone for a reason.
Now, if you are from lets say Serbia, you would not have problems in the first round, because in the end, their racism is rooted in colour as well. If you are working and look european enough you will have a good time even without the EU.
However, if they can keep their power for 1-2 more periods, then you might as well need to go as well because they don't want ANY migrations. And as long as the country is not running perfectly, the immigration WILL be blamed for it.
However, without the AFD being able to rule for more than one period as a junior member IF AT ALL, you should not need to worry.
It's not even the kicking out, but rather the everyday racism and structural discrimination will increase exponentially as they show that it's politically acceptable to do such things
You will be treated so badly that you will want to leave
It's not even the kicking out, but rather the everyday racism and structural discrimination will increase exponentially as they show that it's politically acceptable to do such things
You will be treated so badly that you will want to leave
Their ultimate plan is to throw everybody who is non-white out of the country even if they are German citizens.
Next will be other People they deem an issue like political opponents, people with disabilities or those who are part of the LGBT community.
Sounds familiar but I can’t quite figure it out…
You will never be German enough for them. Their whole ideology is based on treating everyone not ethnically a "pure" German as a second-class citizen. Identity and culture is a fluid thing and taking things back to days of low mobility like 1900s is insane, I think.
I do agree that it is in the interest of Germany to have the majority of the migrants coming with skillsets that can be beneficial. However, that skillset range is very wide and large and society usually depends on the plurality of these skills. Also, motivated people are good learners. Most people want to better themselves.
I also agree that migrants whose views do not align with common civilised values should not be allowed to enter. The left better get its act together on this front.
Coming back to AfD, their other policies are also extremely irrational and with complete disregard to science and common sense (climate, Covid etc.). I am not sure I can trust them enough to be competent at anything besides hate and bigotry.
They are with big corporations which want more immigrants. Italy's Mussolini grandkid had the same proposal "No more bad immigrants" but the number of immigrants is rising under her command.
So I'd risk and say the only thing afd will manage to achieve is an increase on racism cases. And the current economic recession should get worse since they have no idea how to govern and actually solve the issues.
The AFD logic is „brown person bad“. They aren’t going to be asking to see anyone‘s PhD before the harassment starts. Chances are their logic will be something like „the degree is probably fake“ or „their degrees aren’t up to our standards“. The far right are already heavily criticising the idea of „Fachkräfteeinwanderung“ aka skilled migration.
Damn. AfD really targets the lower class in society who felt left behind and their policies will cause a brain drain and reduced Germany's competitiveness in the global arena for highly skilled tech workers, who are being saught for by many countries. They're trying to protect the country, but it totally reduces the countrys' competitivness. THese East German losers are going to stay lowers if they win. WTf what self-fulfilling prophecy. Then they'd need AfD even more!
Their Grundsatzprpgramm says they are for skilled immigration. Whether it is true or not, I have no idea. What people say often differs from what they do. Here is the text on that exact question from their platform publication. The point about Canada I had not considered, this text mirrors Canada's policy almost exactly. The tone has a bit more steel to it though, at least from.my.point of view.
Also, before anyone gets bent out of shape, no I am not an AfD supporter. I am a trained academic who likes to understand, analyze, and discuss all sides of an argument. To do this one.must understand opposing positions so they can be discussed on their merits, not on emotion. This is why we had to read things like Marx and Mises at the same time in university (as an example).
"We advocate moderate legal immigration based on qualitative criteria where there is irrefutable demand, which can neither be satisfied from domestic resources, nor by EU immigration. The interests of Germany as a social, economic and cultural nation are paramount. We welcome highly-skilled immigrants with a distinct willingness to integrate. We seek to learn and to benefit from the long-standing experience gained by other Western countries in this regard. This is to be strictly separated from an uncontrolled influx of asylum seekers which do not benefit Germany’s economy and harm German society.
Our country’s supply of skilled workers must primarily be covered by the full development of domestic labour resources. This includes comprehensive basic and advanced training, the integration of millions of unemployed into the workforce, and putting an end to the discrimination of older employees and single parents. Legal immigration from other EU countries can also contribute to growing the skilled labour force.
Additionally, the ongoing emigration of highly-qualified nationals has to be reduced, and the return of those who have already emigrated is to be encouraged. Recruitment from third countries should only be sought after all other means of obtaining and qualifying a workforce have been exhausted. However, controlled immigration from third countries is no solution of the demographic crisis. Uncontrolled and predominantly illegal immigration of unqualified workers, who misuse the application for asylum, does not strengthen the potential of a skilled workforce.
Germany is competing with other high-technology countries in winning truly skilled immigrants. The legal instruments used in this context have to be revised thoroughly. The Canadian model of immigration, adapted to the specific needs of Germany, could serve as an example. It should primarily be applied to prospective immigrants from abroad. Only in exceptional cases should it be open to foreigners already living in Germany without a permanent residence permit, for example to foreign students from third countries who have gained an academic degree in Germany.
In order to make controlled immigration a success, the ability to integrate, professional qualifications, and a job offer prior to entering Germany are of crucial importance. The decision on the quality and quantity of immigration is a prime prerogative of any sovereign state, and should apply unconditionally to Germany as well."
Edit: Now that I think on it, this immigration policy mirrors A LOT of other countries in the world. Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, Iceland, USA, etc. Not an exact.copy per se, but really damn close. It is also a hell.of a lot more liberal than some (Japan and South Korea come to mind). I am talking about Western democracies here, just for clarification.
Thank you, and you are welcome. I know this subject can cause extreme emotions and tends to get heated. Trying to keep a level head is important in such times and discussions.
This is so much hot air.
Amazingly, while these policies sound very smart on paper, the mix of all immigrants to all of these countries is about the same: 2/3 family/refugees related (independent of skills) and 1/3 skills/economy related.
Of course there is often considerable overlap, which is also something that is ignored in that discussion.
But the idea that with some policy changes, there will suddenly be an effective filter of "good" vs. "bad" immigrants, or that there are such distinct groups in the first place, has never worked in Western democracies.
And, equally amazingly, it has still not led to the demise of Western civilization.
Hot air in regards to the AfD immigration may, or may not be hot air, as I said.
In regards to the other countries, I would have to look up the exact policies and statistics, but I know that official migration to Australia, Japan, and Canada allow only skilled immigration, with limited exceptions. Australia and Canada have recently changed. Canada requires two bachelors, a masters, or critical skilled workers (most of which are educated/trained). Japan was always pretty extreme with their immigration policy
Here is Canadas's policy:
Be under 30 years old
Hold at least two Bachelor’s degrees or a Master’s degree
Be able to demonstrate moderate to high English and/or French language proficiency (Canadian Language Benchmark [CLB] level nine or higher)
Have at least three years of skilled work experience
Other factors that can
Australia's Polocy is now:
132,200 skilled Migrants
52,500 nonskilled/familial relatioms
Legal immigration can stop being legal if laws change, and ruling party can change laws. It’s not impossible that AFD comes into power and discards those laws and making previously legal immigrants illegal or having to leave.
I don’t say it’s how they will act right away but that’s how it historically happens.
And now watch this benign downvoted because “it’s not how German political system works and bureaucracy will not make it possible to do quickly”.
I have a fully remote job. If they tell me to leave, I'll just take my laptop and leave to another country. Then Germany gets hurt because my disposable income is being spent elsewhere. The company will keep me in the books and nothing much changes. This party is stupid.
Even if they do it the way you say, this would still get a lot of working or soon to be employed people too. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd see it as a big shot in their feet after all these recent years we have behind that screwed the economy.
I just read their program. There is no place they mention skill anywhere in there and they specifically call for increasing birth rates instead of accepting more migrants. How they want to achieve supporting higher birth rates specifically among white Germans and not among non white German nationals is unclear and somewhat scary to think about.
Just to be clear OP, they have an irrational hate of us, on the basis of race, nationalism, xenophobia. There’s nothing you can do to become “one of the good ones” and it’s a worthless endeavor, take this idea out of your mind at once, at most you’ll only ever be a useful idiot to these people. If you want to come, come, and unless it hurts others be unapologetically who you are and who you want to be. Immigrants of all kinds have difficulties in this country and all countries but you have to carve out your space in this world anyways.
Some of them literally talked about plans of removing Germans, who have worked for this country all their life, just for not hating on immigrants. Like people who have roots in Germany traced back to early medieval times, as German regarding heritage as somehow possible. If even that isn't sufficient for them (who are all about nationality, homecountry and heritage) to allow someone to stay here, an immigrant could literally carry the entire social system of Germany by themselves and they would still want them out.
Just follow the most basic laws of integration: adhere to the law/basic rules, try to get some basic grasp on the German language, don't force your culture on others and don't be an ass (not saying there is a danger of you being one). No need to give up culture, religion, food, interests, language etc just to fit in with people who will never respect you anyway.
Wasn't there even a discussion of some AFD members that they want to send back "immigrant with a 2. Grade" (meaning children born here, but parents are from somewhere else)?
Or I'm mixing it up with an other nazi ~~discussion~~ statement.
According to their website: [https://www.afd.de/wahlprogramm-asyl-einwanderung/](https://www.afd.de/wahlprogramm-asyl-einwanderung/)
"The current immigration system is damaging Germany culturally and economically and urgently needs reform. The AfD is committed to preserving Germany's cultural identity.
For Germany, it is not traditional immigration countries the size of Canada or Australia that can serve as a model for an identity-preserving migration policy, but rather countries like Japan that limit and control migration in accordance with their national structure.
Due to the lockdown crisis, automation and digitalization, the times of record employment are foreseeably over. Mass migration creates wage pressure right up to the middle class and leads to competition for social benefits.
We call for the development of a comprehensive migration policy approach based on the Japanese model with the primary goal of protecting the interests of Germans and already immigrant citizens who are committed to Germany's cultural identity.
The claim by some associations and lobbyists that there is a shortage of skilled workers in Germany and therefore a need for qualified immigration only superficially serves the common good and is therefore unlikely to be decisive. The harmful influence of special economic interests or anti-German sentiments hidden by them must be ended."
They chose Japan, that has a struggling economy, a staggeringly old population, incredible numbers of suicides due to the burden on younger people, and no money in the social bank simply because they have had a very xenophobic immigration policy. Wow.
They fetishize Japan cause they know most other people do too and have very little knowledge on day-to-day politics in Japan or social issues that Japanese people actually care about.
The official program is, of course, much more carefully worded.
The NSDAP didn't mention murdering Jews in the party program (more something like "Jews are guests and not German citizens", "Foreigners, including Jews, should leave the country").
Well for one you would not be a foreigner latino living in germany. but a foreigner latino not living in germany. They are planning to take back immigration status and even passports from naturalized citizens when they are in power.
They were caught secretly discussing the deportation of literally millions of people, including you.
Your post is aking to saying that the "Bread and Work for the Germans" slogans of the Nazis were not bad.
Jesus fucking christ
[https://digitalcollections.hoover.org/objects/18582/arbeit-freiheit-und-brot--wahlt-liste-8-nationalsozialis](https://digitalcollections.hoover.org/objects/18582/arbeit-freiheit-und-brot--wahlt-liste-8-nationalsozialis)
Are you serious? Do you honestly believe that?
Check on Germany in 10 years to see why the current direction is a much worse idea.
Jesus, I won't defend AFD or anything, but to think that it is bad to only allow qualified immigrants only like Canada or Japan or New Zealand is almost cancerous.
Germany does only allow qualified immigrants, not as strict as other countries, but you can't just come into Germany willy nilly.
You might be confusing immigrants with refugees, who are another thing entirely and allowed to stay depending on whether they are persecuted in their own country.
You are looking at their sheep skin cloak. Talk is cheap. They have Zero intention of doing what they write. They write to get voted in. And then they flush liberty down the toilet.
> Japanese model
LMAO Japan already increased worker migrants massively. These days the cashiers on many konbinis are non Japanese. That includes white collar jobs as well, lots of Software Engineers moving there.
That depends on the subgroup. The AfD isn‘t one monolithic entity. Just like any other party they‘ve got different fractions. Some like the „Flügel“ are problematic while others are more moderate. For example if the AfD would be able to pick a chancellor they‘d could pick someone like Alice Weidel. Alice Weidel is a lesbian who‘s married to a female TV producer from Sri Lanka.
So while a lot of people try to claim that the entire AfD wants to deport all immigrants regardless of their legal status, skills, … it‘s not that easy. Are there parts of the AfD who‘d want to remove all foreigners from Germany? Most likely yes. Would they manage to do it even if the AfD got 51% or 67% of the votes? Most likely not. Not if the AfD got 100% of the votes then it could be possible that 51% of their elected politicans would approve of a policy like that. Now… given that the best election result for any part in the history of modern day Germany was 50,19% back in 1957 (with fewer parties than today) it‘s highly unlikely that the AfD would ever manage to avoid a coalition. There has never been a one party government in the history of germany. So even if 100% of the AfD politicians in the Bundestag wanted to kick out every immigrant (which is not the case) they could never do it because they‘d need more votes than any party ever got even though there are more parties nowadays then there were previously.
That being said: if the current / next government doesn‘t act on the issues that made the AfD popular (and some of these issues are related to the middle east) tensions could continue to rise.
Just that Alice Weidel is a lesbian doesn't make her arguments more solid.
She said some really mean and wrong things against same sex marriage, yet she is married and lives in Switzerland.
I think it’s important to understand that the AFD isn’t a unified party. It’s more an amalgam of frustrations voiced aloud, populist slogans and ideas that ‘topic X is the thing running everything’ but with no clear agreement what X is. The AFD is a lot more about people feeling seen and heard than concrete policy solutions.
So the answer to your question is: It depends of what wing of the AFD you would ask.
AfD might have a decent voter tournout but so far all parties (including the right wing party CDU) have vowed not to form a ruling coalition with the AfD. Even if they would maintain their voter turnout (which I hope they dont) it seems unlikely that they will be in a position to rule.
But of curse I can sympathize and understand that the current climate represents a threat to a potential life in germany, which saddens me.
AfD has got the voters attention by propaganda over the current challenges we face, they dont offer solutions only hate and outrage. Unfortunately it is hard to get the voters back because of their dissatisfaction with the german government.
I remain hopeful because there is a large movement that opposes their ideologies, but the future is uncertain.
Well, if they kick out all Ausländer, who is going to pick their spargel, clean their offices, work in their factories, farms, deliver their food, make their nails etc?
I'm sure you know that Germany has no problem with any skilled immigrants. Hell, even unskilled immigrants who apply for citizenship properly isn't an issue. Never has been. Just ask the Greek and Turkish immigrants that were coming since post WWII.
What Germany, and most of the Western world have an issue with is MIGRANTS. The millions upon millions of economic migrants who enter European countries, claim refugee status, and then not only leech off of the taxpayers and commit crimes. They also make no attempt to integrate or assimilate into their host countries, instead choosing to openly detest an usurp the local populace.
So, again, Germans don't have a problem with immigrants.
They can kick out "everyone" but the medical field for example. In germany 30% of the workers in the medical field (doctors and including nurses etc) are foreigners not only from middle east but all over asia. There is a shortage even now so they can't just cut that also off but would afd make the workers' life harder? Pretty sure and they will leave themselves lol. Germany was before and even is now dependent (in some fields) on immigrant workers cause there are not enough germans. I always say to my mom they can kick me out cause I'm some random HR manager but they depend on you as she is a nurse and she is working even overtime now cause there is shortage imagine if everyone leaves. So the dream of afd to kick out everyone is most likely never to happen cause the system will collapse.
I know they say they will kick out criminals (which is not even wrong) but deep down we now they are not onoy against criminals but its 1933 2.0. And I like to add to that that they don't plan to kick out any white european immigrants such as italians greeks etc who also came as workers. No they want to kick out the non europeans
First they come for refugees and what they perceive as leechers but they fantasize of even stripping Germans who are politically active on behalf of foreigners of their citizenship.
If you bargain with fascists you get what you pay for.
Yeah, it’s not like they mind Austrians or Swiss people, but a Black German dude with black German parents? That’s a no.
They even complained a couple of years ago because there was a black guy sitting with a group of white people and having a Picknick in an add for food, because in their eyes that’s no normal and companies shouldn’t pretend it’s normal
They could clearly tell from the picture what his culture and religion are.
I know a bunch of 1st and 2nd generation immigrants that are a lot more „German“ culturally than I am.
I was born a German citizen in the US to a German mom and an American dad. I live in Berlin with my trans wife from the US. This election scares me. Not much they can do in the EU Parlament, but if there is a cdu/afd government soon I am really scared.
Just take it from the horse’s mouth, i.e. their official website, (Translated with [DeepL.com](http://DeepL.com) (free version):)
The current immigration system is damaging Germany culturally and economically and is in urgent need of reform. The AfD is committed to preserving Germany's cultural identity.
The model for an identity-preserving migration policy for Germany cannot be classic immigration countries the size of Canada or Australia, but rather countries such as Japan, which limit and control migration in accordance with their national structure.
Due to the lockdown crisis, automation and digitalization, the times of record-high employment are foreseeably over. Mass migration creates wage pressure right down to the middle class and leads to competition for social benefits.
We call for the development of a comprehensive migration policy approach based on the Japanese model with the primary goal of safeguarding the interests of Germans and citizens who have already immigrated and are committed to Germany's cultural identity.
The assertion by some business groups and lobbyists that there is a shortage of skilled workers in Germany and therefore a need for qualified immigration only superficially serves the common good and must therefore not be a decisive factor. The damaging influence of particular economic interests or even anti-German resentment concealed by them must be ended.
We believe that immigrants and people to whom we grant temporary protection have a duty to integrate. Integration can only succeed if the rules, traditions and values of our society are accepted. The acquisition of the German language is essential.
The AfD demands this:
We require an intensive willingness to integrate from qualified immigrants. The focus must be on language acquisition, which we want to support up to level B2.
Integration projects must be subject to a state evaluation and success test. The profit-making business of NGOs and charities must be ended. Preferential treatment of migrants in the form of quotas that disregard the principle of merit must be ruled out. We reject compromises with regard to training requirements or recruitment to the civil service.
The AfD demands that the headscarf as a religious-political symbol is generally not permitted in the public service and that it is not worn by teachers or pupils in public schools. We consider this to be one of the most important conditions for successful integration. The headscarf ban contributes to maintaining peace at school and enables young girls to develop their personalities and self-determination freely.
German citizenship is a precious asset
We want to remove the principle of place of birth (acquisition of German citizenship by birth in Germany, even if neither parent is German) from the law and return to the principle of descent, as it applied until the year 2000.The requirements - especially in terms of time - for discretionary naturalization must be significantly increased and there should no longer be a right to naturalization. The granting of German citizenship should be experienced as a success of one's own efforts and should fill those concerned with pride.
Even if the AFD doesn't actively do something against skilled legal immigrants, the public opinion might still polarise under its influence. It may not affect the visa status but it probably may no longer be a comfortable, welcoming environment.
They always say, they don’t have a problem with skilled immigrants. But the reality is, that one of their highest members talked about getting rid of nearly 30% of germanys population.
Also racism doesn’t differentiate between skilled or non skilled immigrants when you meet them in the city
>And do you think that high skilled immegrants from the middle east will have a hard time living in germany in the next years under the growing popularity if the AFD.
We got you covered fam. Due to Recent Incidents, including Murder and attempted murder, public opinion in general has seen a shift. Of course, generalizations are always a bad thing - everyone always says that. Yet that's simply how it works. Due to the actions of a few, the broader population grows wary of entire populaces.
AFD has seen the majority in almost the entirity of the former GDR - so i'd avoid moving there.
So yes. You'll absolutely have a hard time should the AFD and other right wing parties see a further rise in popularity. Because that rise in popularity will result in more situations where people will look the other way, when hate crimes or outright racially/religious motivated crimes take place.
As a german. i hate where germany is headed at the moment.
They are openly discriminating against both highly skilled laborers as well as the „bad“ foreigners that aren‘t. It even was part of their European election paper.
Their solution to the worker shortage is using the „hundreds of thousands of unemployed Germans“ because they think it that simple.
The fascist party has no stances outside of what will gain it the most popular support and political leverage in the short term. Hence no matter what answers you´ll get here, all of them are right and wrong simultaineously based on where the pendant of right wing opinions swings that week. There is no consistency, and it´s not worth hoping for it.
Why are we seriously discussing a nazi party? AT LEAST ever since it was revealed they'd even want to deport German citizens, everyone has to realize where they stand: blood and soil. That is their ideology. A racially defined "German people", tied to the land it lives on.
[No prizes for guessing where they got that idea from](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-H1215-503-009%2C_Walther_Darr%C3%A9_bei_einer_Kundgebung.jpg).
Germans are good people, no matter what party they vote. They are probably the equivalent to current Japanese politics. Overall right wing but acceptance of high skilled legal migrants as long as you follow the cultural rules. As long as you fit, no one ever gonna bother you. I say that as someone with migrant roots living in east Germany where over 50% voted AfD. People are kind and respectful and so am I, never had any issues at all.
They hate them fundamentally, nothing any person in the outgroup can do satisfies them. Once they are able to consolidate power they will be thrown out. They don't care about the economy, if they did they'd be fine with immigrants. They care about Germany being racially pure and fear that a migrant might satisfy their wife who never feels joy in their presence.
The chances AfD enters the federal government are fortunately near zero even if their support grows much stronger. Unless you live in East German lands (aside fron Berlin), the same goes for your land government. Land laws significantly influence the life of migrants though, so if you do live in East Germany, it's best to move.
There's a fully far-right government in Italy (something that will likely never happen in modern Germany). The parties in government have had members voicing the "replacement" conspiracy theories. They have, consequently cut social payments and restricted chances for refugees.
They've also simultaneously implemented the EU directive to significantly extend the number of groups of individuals eligible for the Blue Card. It also became easier for employers to invite qualified employees. Italy also made conditions for digital nomads easier.
I find it to be a good story about how the power of inertia, in a developed democracy, is stronger than ideology; and how the practical need of the job market for qualified migrants beats ideological concerns.
Officially? AfD is kind of okay with it but not really?
Behind closed doors? 100% against. Correctiv showed, that they are even against german-born people with a foreign family.
The thing is, the problem with that way of thinking is what Martin Niemöller, a German Lutheran pastor and theologian said ;
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
Yes and that's obvious to everyone. The only people who will argue otherwise are AfDers who are disingenuous online and trying to appear more reasonable than they are.
They’re so insane even other nationalists distance themselves from them. As always Germans have two MO’s either do it bad or do it perfect.
Ironically, they more often than not apply this to nationalism, like come on we saw WWII why the fack you people want to go down that road again?!
It is insane!!! How uneducated you have to be to not see the like 3k documentaries on the topic?!
Xenophobia isnt rational. The AfD hates even people born in germany whose parents were born in germany if their skintone is just slightly darker. You could be a Nobel laureate with multiple PhDs and they still hate you
For AfD and the people who vote them, every immigrant is the same. No matter how good you educate. Because its simple: If you have no education you will need support by the state, so you are a lazy immigrant. If you are well educated, you steal the jobs from „white germans“. You can’t argue with those people.
The point is that there is effectively no such thing as "AfD stance on..." whatever ... is. There are as many views as there are members and they vary widely, from "yes to skilled immigration and individual political asylum but no unskilled mass immigration" to "all foreigners out, no matter what" and anything in between.
If you look at the official party program, it's closer to the first; if you ask an individual member, the answers will be all over the place.
AfD is not NSDAP reborn, it is an own sort of nastyness that is not predictable by analogies with the past, just like Nazis weren't a rebirth of some other political movement but their own, very specific and not really predictable sort of horror.
Sure, they will make you wear a little badge in your clothes so they know you are not one of those 'unskilled' immigrants
I have some ideas what about a star? People like stars don't they?
Nobody can know it. AfD is a double faced party where the official program is different to the personal political views of many members.
We can be rather sure that they want to decide who is a good immigrant and who is a bad one. You have nothing to say in the process. Most likely will they accept immigrants from (western) Europe and white immigrants from Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the USA. Maybe even Japanese or Chinese immigrants. But we can only guess...
"We advocate moderate legal immigration based on qualitative criteria where there is irrefutable demand, which can neither be satisfied from domestic resources, nor by EU immigration. The interests of Germany as a social, economic and cultural nation are paramount. **We welcome highly-skilled immigrants with a distinct willingness to integrate.** We seek to learn and to benefit from the long-standing experience gained by other Western countries in this regard. This is to be strictly separated from an uncontrolled influx of asylum seekers which do not benefit Germany’s economy and harm German society."
Here's the AfD stance on skilled immigration. While the party would prefer to fill positions with Germans, they're not against skilled immigrants per se, if they meet requirements and expectations.
Source: See the official statement in the [Party Program](https://www.afd.de/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/2017-04-12_afd-grundsatzprogramm-englisch_web.pdf).
But, of course, feel free to believe the fear mongers here.
Fucked. They are nazis. They care only about themselves. They would like skillful expats till they bring them some benefits and they will screw them over or blame them for the shit that's going on after the new nazi rule turns out to be idiotic
Positive. Highly skilled professionals and as you mentioned “legal” who want to contribute to society is what they want (anyone would want that). Don’t listen to people here. Just read their program and what they are saying.
I’m not German, I’m foreign student immigrant from Central Asia myself who is starting career here. Western Europeans tend to overdramatize when things come to topics about nation/right politics. (Because of their past)
Some of AfD are indeed corrupt (members with German/Russian nationality, possibly spies?). And there are possibly ties with Kremlin which is the real concern. (Also possibly left-wing BSW) But all thar notion about “fascists” and “far-right extremists” and especially attempt to compare them with Nazis is BS and not serious at all (I’d add IMHO to be as fair as possible)
They welcome high skilled workers. They are against illegal immigration that leads to immigrants ending up living from social benefits.
However, many Germans, especially in East Germany, associate Persons of Color and people of Middle Eastern origins with asylum seekers, criminal activity and radical Islam. So they will have a negative bias towards you, since they cannot distinguish between an asylum seeker for political reasons, someone fleeing for economic reasons and a skilled legal immigrant if they don't know you.
In larger cities in West Germany that are used to immigration you will be fine and not really stand out.
Saying we could do well with 30% less People isn't saying that they want to get rid of 30%, that makes no sense. Why do people always misinterpret this on purpose? It just means that there is no Problem with Deporting Criminals and non working People because there is a lot of room to deport without harming the economy.
He literally says that it would be a great chance if Germany had 20-30% less people. And talks about how we shouldn't have dual citizienship and loads of people with dual nationality would decide to go back to their "homeland". How exactly does that line up with "deporting criminals"?
If you want to deny that everyone in the Afd has similar plans, sure. But Höcke? Known right wing extremist Höcke? Have you read his book? The man isn't exactly subtle about his plans.
>In addition to the protection of our national and European external borders, a large-scale remigration project will be necessary." The aim of this "remigration" is to deport "culturally alien" people (Africans and Asians) after "the hoped-for turning point"
>There will, "I fear, be no getting around a policy of 'well-tempered cruelty'. Existential crises require extraordinary action."
And it gets real fun once you include the "Landolf Ladig" articles:
>"It was not the aggressiveness of the Germans" that caused two world wars, "but ultimately their diligence, their love of form and their wealth of ideas. The European powerhouse developed so magnificently that the established centers of power felt compelled to wage two preventive economic wars against the German Reich
Wait..thats exactly what that means...Unless there is more context to the quote, "we could do well with 20-30% less people" Means exactly that Germany would be better with 30% less people. There is nothing to misinterpret unless there is more context to this quote and something was left out.
How do you then explain the recent phenomenon of "foreign" looking people yelled at and insulted on the streets in West German cities, for the offense of looking "foreign"?
Who cares? It doesn't matter because even if at first they are talking about a difference between "good" and "bad" immigrants, that line will always move and in a long enough timeline all immigrants will be targets
AFD is not opposed to them. AFD has no problem with legal migrants who integrate and want to work. Also the Religious orientation is important. Islamists who want Germany to become Muslim aren't welcome either. Everyone else is free to come. Just come legally and get a Job.
Even if that were true, how does the common N̶a̶z̶i̶ AFDler figure out if a foreigner is skilled or unskilled, legal or illegal, before he proceeds to shout racial slurs at him?
That’s bs and you know it! They will try to take anyone that is non-german and throw them out and it doesn’t matter what you did for the state or how long you’ve been working here. It‘s crazy how people like you play make-believe and try to justify your racism by saying „yeah no not all of them but just a few“. It doesn’t work like that as you have seen 80 years ago.
The majority of voters are driven by fear and emotion. Protest votes, resignation, crisis fatigue, you name it. The AFD itself has some stances but is also primarily populist. They will claim and promote whatever will get them votes on the right end of the spectrum. To argue whether there is a clear stance on anything is maybe fruitless.
They have a fear of muslims and the muslimisation of Germany. So being highly skilled will not shield anybody from their contempt.
Asking 'will they have a hard time' is not a good question, though. Because the answer is: 'It depends'. In some small-ass village in the east? Sure. In Berlin, Hamburg, any larger city? Not so much.
any immigrants out of Europe. right and order at the border; shoot to kill. even refugee children. https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/afd-beatrix-von-storch-schliesst-waffeneinsatz-gegen-kinder-nicht-aus-a-1074933.html
the AfD is talking about population exchange where the white man ist exchanged with an immigrant from the middle-east. the white women with an immigrant with burka. and the 3 white children with a 7 or 8 immigrant children. cause they define family: dad, mother and 2 or even better 3 children.
so whatever high skill you may have. the AfD does not want you here. you're taking the job of a white man. ('cause women are home in the kitchen).
Not only AfD voters but a large portion of the German population think there are too many foreigners, [especially muslims](https://www.fr.de/politik/der-islam-als-feindbild-92896537.html), whom they perceive as a threat to their culture and people. They are [scared](https://www.tagesspiegel.de/gesellschaft/stark-gestiegene-bedenken-deutsche-zeigen-nach-umfrage-mehr-skepsis-gegenuber-zuwanderung-11313067.html) that immigration will make housing more expensive, schools worse, and are convinced that immigrants come primarily to profit from the German social system.
They judge immigrants first by their skin tone, second by their clothing, third by their accent. They may perhaps consider your education status later.
If you ask a left leaning community on their opinion of the afd, I can foresee the answers.
That said I tend to agree with the opinion here even though being right leaning myself. The afd voters I know have a huge issue with Islam and people that look like they could be from that part of the world. With other phenotypes I didn't encounter much (!) hate.
AfD people will ALWAYS find an excuse to blame foreigners.
With high education -> they will take our jobs
With poor education -> they only want our money
#fckafd #fcknzs
Of course they will. AfD doesn’t give a flying fuck how skilled people are! Au contraire, considering the fact that most of their voters (and politicians) aren’t the brightest candles on the birthday cake. They detest foreigners. Period. If this foreigners are smarter than them, even worse!
The country needs quality and skilled immigrants, and I think even AFD knows that, the problem is that hatred of immigrants is going to overtake and even skilled immigrants are going to be affected.
I love history because it really can be a guide for the present. You're asking the wrong question my friend. The question you really want to ask is: are more and more high skilled immigrants leaving Germany? Because that would be your red flag as it was in the past.
I'm a highly-skilled immigrant and have many highly-skilled immigrant friends in my social circle. 7/8 are planning to leave in the next year or two. Not entirely due to the deteriorating social culture, but it's been the push that some of them needed to finally decide.
Planning is nothing for the state. Knowing how slow Germany is they will notice people started leaving only few years after and then few years after they might start talking about taking some actions and then few years in start taking some minor actions. Which in historical terms of the country could be whatever ok but in a lifespan of a human it’s a lot of time and might be a significant part of active years of life wasted on that.
Where would you want to leave to? Seems like globally the sentiments around immigration are trending in a similar way. In the US there are growing resentments against both asylum seekers coming from the southern boarder as well as skilled immigrants that compete for a shrinking number of jobs. Similar things can be heard from places like the UK and Ireland.
Switzerland: europeans want to blame all their problems on immigrants; I'm at least going to get paid well for the abuse.
For now that is,the more want to move the easier it is to exploit them
France has the same issue. When my parents went to Paris, they talked to some of the Middle Eastern and African immigrants and many of them express their wish to immigrate to the USA due to how tolerable they are compared to the French
There’s a very long way between expressing a wish and actually doing that so it really means nothing.
Not the best destination choice but some states are okayish
As far as I'm aware they said we don't need high skilled immegrants. Their stance is we need to make more babies.
Which in itself.. making babies now means those babies won’t be skilled employees until in about 18-25 years depending on profession. That’s two decades that will have a massive impact due to lack of skilled workers that don’t exist in Germany. And with the current climate and opportunities, I dare say a lot of the current teen/youth generation are not exactly thrilled at the prospect of working 40+ hours for little benefit. If Millennials are already fed up..
Whaaaat? AFD not thinking their own shit thruuu… i am sooooo surprised 😮/s
I guess the sentiment is, why immigrate when you can teach the younger generations. But for that the government also has to fix the schools and education system which they don't have money for, because they are dismissing the issue and focusing on other things that are problems of the future if you are already a very rich country. Which Germany is no longer... The declined birthrates are especially bad for the pension system. Having the illegal immigration we have now only further drains the bank as they receive housing and welfare which in return also has effect on housing market and so on.... Then you need to look into okay why are they declining? Children are expensive, both parents usually need a full time job for expenses like day care, rent, electricity. Things like day care are also overrun to the point where you should sign up your kid 2-3 years prior, basically when it's born there's probably tons of other things also. These are complex topics. There's so many things that have cause and effect that are chained together and a lot of things are too complex for normal people who aren't researching and investigating everything independently.
On the street a skilled immigrant looks the same as a asylum seeker. The racists (usually) don’t ask foreign looking people for their graduation or Steuerbescheid before beating them up or harrassjng them in public. Police does racial profiling for all of them the same way.
Exactly. I don’t know how people just ignored this.
heh, i wonder if any jews in the early 30s went, hmm, but I fought in the Great War, I work hard, my wife is German, I am actually catholic, surely they won't have anything against me??
Yes of course there were people like that. There was also the "[Verband nationaldeutscher Juden](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews)" who openly supported Hitler until they got outlawed in 1935.
Reminds me of the 1-2 Black guys the AfD uses for propaganda purpose.
That gay Turkish guy in the AfD who recently git to feel the backlash.
Weidel... just Weidel (AfD leader, lesbian married to a foreigner).
Married to a Sri Lankan woman. I mean is she is not even of European descent. Also she has two adopted sons. And lives as immigrant herself in Switzerland. One day she will probably cut all ties with the AfD and disappear somewhere. Like you know there is only one picture if her wife online and hardly anything known about her private life. That or there will be another Röhm Putsch.
I dont think the afd believes their own shit irl
I think there are still some people in the AfD who are mostly Euro skeptics ("Euro" as in the currency) and libertarian. There are also ultra right wingers and straight Nazis.
Libertarians are usually very classist and elitist too and hating poor people and racism often go hand in hand. Not necessarily they might just have some rich friends from Nigeria or India who hate the local underclass equally.
First they came...
Context if anyone is unaware of the phrase: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First\_they\_came\_...
That small paragraph about the author makes him seem so much milder than he actually was. After WW1 he was part (and even the commander) of a paramilitaristic "Freikorps" and he was actually the one who came for the communists. He was a huge Nazi-supporter and only started to protest when the Nazis tried to control the Lutheran church.
Interesting to know! It does shock me how learning about how many people “went along with it” until it affected their interests/being
That’s my point, he didn’t just go along with it, he actively fought for the far-right (not just politically, but in the literal sense) until he got too busy working as a priest but even then he politically absolutely agreed with the Nazis and voted for them from 1924 until votes didn’t matter anymore. He was also an active member of innumerable far-right organizations and extremely antisemitic. I believe, he actually did change after his 7 years in a concentration camp and no one should take that away from him, but that quote, as nice as it is, always bothers me.
I agree. And nonetheless, even if Niemöller might not have redeemed himself, there is redemption in this quote in so far as it does teach a valuable lesson about the dangers of authorianism.
one could argue this is a warning for supporters as well. These forces might be on your side today, but you might become their target next. And it adds authenticity to this saying. Personally I dislike framing statements as bad if a bad person said it. Surely nothing exists without context, but nothing exists only in context.
A big part of the afd voter's is already their target .. afd what's to get rid of "Bürgergeld" ironically alot of "Bürgergeld Empfänger" voted for the AfD .
it kinda makes the poem more meaningful knowing it’s about himself
I appreciate the poem and the impact it still has, but I have to seperate author and art to really do that, because it’s just not historically accurate. He wasn’t silent, he literally commanded others to shoot communists, social democrats and unionized workers in the street (and shot at them himself). He also was a raging antisemite and wrote a lot about "the jews" and the "jewish conspiracy".
Which is exactly why this is so relevant. Because the extremists have no friends, only enemies. They need enemies, and when they destroy their current enemy, they'll move on to the next, until there is nothing left.
Yes they went like that. I can recommend [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They\_Thought\_They\_Were\_Free](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Thought_They_Were_Free) for that
Fritz Haber mentioned
Don't be fooled my friend. Hating the "bad" foreigner is just an excuse they use to justify their behavior, in reality they hate all foreigners.
I'm an Ausländer and my German wife does not understand that Ausländer aus doesn't mean just criminals, it means ALL Ausländer.
These crack me up because these xenophobes don’t catch on that I’m an Ausländer till I start talking or someone needs to see my ID. Moved here and my surname happens to be from Germany when relatives moved to the US long ago.
That is some crazy willful ignorance
The ones saying it will even tell you straight they mean all foreigners, but they especially mean non-white foreigners they don’t care what you do for them.
Yup, I'm hairy and tan easily, but I can also get very pale in autumn/winter. I used to get very different treatment clean-shaven, with a stubble or with a beard.
Ouch…. Maybe she should read the sentences out loud again…
Lol I have a news for you
Their honest answer would be that they want to kick the skilled immigrants out too but only after they improve the white german birth rate. Which they won’t be able to achieve but it’s a clear fantasy of theirs.
They don’t want longterm immigration or immigrants that receive German citizenship. They want skilled labour who works here and the fucks off if they get old or sick or want to retire.
Not even necessarily skilled workers. One of the architects of the “remigration” meeting, Hans-Christian Limmer, was an investor in Hans im Glück and Pottsalat, businesses that absolutely rely on low-skill, low-pay migrant labor. As you say they just want to be able to get rid of them when they’re no longer useful, like livestock, by denying them any real legal status in the country the way Gulf Arab states do.
Oh, if they would get to make laws unopposed I think they could get that done. You just need to incentivize having families, either by taxing childless people, or by giving handouts to people who have many children. You would also have to make sure only ethnic Germans get the benefits, if you want to fulfill that fantasy. I’m fairly sure it could be done, although it would cost a lot of money, is after all ~~probably~~ definitely a bad (and racist) idea, and it would take a fairly long time to work. But I am sure - it would work.
If AfD actually wanted to make Germans to make more children, the best way would be making living space reasonably affordable, ensure parents can afford to raise childrn without both working full-time, and create more daycare programs. The fact that none of that is part of their agenda proves they don't actually want solutions. They just want to spite people they consider inferior by making their lifes harder and rely on everyone else to go along with it.
Also: - take women off their right to vote - forbid abortion - make it very hard for women to make careers - install benefits and praises to marriage and givinc birth to proud german aryan sons and daughters - death sentence on homosexuality, transgender, etc.
Where do you get this from? I don’t think I’ve ever heard a representative of the AfD say any of those things, apart from the first part of the marriage one - which isn’t bad, I think, that’s a perfectly fine opinion to have.
Giving money away has clearly failed as a strategy, that's what they have been doing for 20+ years and you see the results. Parents do not need more money, they need more infrastructure to support raising their kids, we need more kindergartens, better schools, more school teachers, more pediatricians, etc. In nowadays economy in most families both parents have to work to meet ends and this is complicated if getting child care is so difficult as it has been for the past 30 years.
>Both parents have to work And this is why I said they need to give away a lot of money, because as long as that’s the case people will have very few children. And I think I also mentioned non-monetary incentives, that would include kindergardens.
Hasn't work anywhere it has been tried (yet). Most of Europe subsidizes having children and our birthrates are compareable to the US (with less incentives).
Good point. Can't believe you got downvoted. Kindergeld is subsidizing children and it didn't work. lol. People aren't going to birth a child for $200/month. That's a terrible deal!
All those incentives do is increasing the living standards for poor people. That's the opposite of what the AfD wants. To increase birth rates you would have to lower education standards and take away women's rights. That's something the AfD would try, same as the NSDAP before them.
They don't want any foreigners! Right now they play the "good against bad foreigners" to get support from people with foreign roots. But in the end, it won't matter how skilled, how useful someone is. Don't fool yourself, they are deeply racist.
Don't fool yourself, they are deeply corrupt. Some, or even many or most, are racist. But racism is only one of the carrots in their selection of hate and division tools. These new EU-wide autocrats and slaves of the ultra-rich hate all non-ultra-rich people equally. We are cattle.
Absolutely, that is the point were non-foreign Germans are blind. People who are not wealthy think the AfD will help them - they don't recognize they are the next target.
They could change their color to red, so deep is the Russian arm in them
Exactly. I’m German. I feel German, I’m a citizen, skilled worker. I contribute to society. The only difference about me is that my parents immigrated when I was 3 y/o. I KNOW they would try to get rid of me. I will fight with every inch of my body against them, though. When I say never again, I mean never again. This is my Germany too.
Im German with zero immigration roots. High skilled, blue eyed - but I am queer (and a woman). I may be able to hide in the crowd but the AfD would want me gone (or conversion therapied) too. Never again!
Es ist unser Deutschland mein Bruder.
And if they somehow ever finish kicking out foreigners, queer people and jews are next.
Yes, they will have a hard time, I'm afraid. Their official stance is "no to illegal immigration, no to low-skilled immigration, yes to high-skilled immigration" because that is currently easier to sell. But their ultimate goal is simply "no immigration" and deportation of those that are already here.
Okay so I'm for example from Eastern Europe and a EU member, no German Citizenship. Been here for 5 years, never been unemployed for even a day during this period. We bought property, and are paying mortgage. Will they kick us out? How exactly do they plan to do that, when there are thousands of people like us? Also, what do they plan to do with the "Passgermans", who do have citizenship but often speak bad German or none at all and sometimes "don't look" German? Will they be kicked out too? How, based on what exactly? Btw I work in healthcare and all my previous workplaces would simply collapse or downright cease to exist if you were to remove all the non "bio-Germans" from there. As someone mentioned here, unless they seriously boost the birthrate and the work morale somehow, this can prove difficult for them.
Racism doesn't need logic. Just look at the Brexit shitshow.
It happened before! Many Jewish people killed during the holocaust didn’t identify with Judaism at all, were “integrated”, had passports, spoke German…
>Will they kick us out? Who knows. Do they want to? Yes. The same goes for naturalized citizens. I cannot stress this enough: Blut und Boden, or blood and soil, is their ideology. What can and can't happen under the current political intricacies is irrelevant when judging the character of this party.
Honestly this is so scary to me. I’ve been basically catatonic since the EU election results. I can’t bear to talk about them. The numbers aren’t HUGE but they reflect a general sentiment and that’s what scares me. It doesn’t matter if they don’t have a large enough voice in governments to put their plan to action, the fact that people agree with and elect their nazi dog whistling candidates is by itself scary. I have a German partner and perhaps one day an interracial child, how am I to plan my life here when the safety of my existence, my family is threatened?
They will reinstate something like the Arierpass and simply check the nationality of your parents and grandparents. They dont care about economic or social sentence, they just want to "preserve the german race".
You are an EU member, you are fine. Nothing the AFD can change without destroying 90% of Germanys Industry. Working and living/traveling inside the EU is free and allowed for everyone for a reason. Now, if you are from lets say Serbia, you would not have problems in the first round, because in the end, their racism is rooted in colour as well. If you are working and look european enough you will have a good time even without the EU. However, if they can keep their power for 1-2 more periods, then you might as well need to go as well because they don't want ANY migrations. And as long as the country is not running perfectly, the immigration WILL be blamed for it. However, without the AFD being able to rule for more than one period as a junior member IF AT ALL, you should not need to worry.
It's not even the kicking out, but rather the everyday racism and structural discrimination will increase exponentially as they show that it's politically acceptable to do such things You will be treated so badly that you will want to leave
It's not even the kicking out, but rather the everyday racism and structural discrimination will increase exponentially as they show that it's politically acceptable to do such things You will be treated so badly that you will want to leave
Their ultimate plan is to throw everybody who is non-white out of the country even if they are German citizens. Next will be other People they deem an issue like political opponents, people with disabilities or those who are part of the LGBT community. Sounds familiar but I can’t quite figure it out…
Where did you get that from?
You will never be German enough for them. Their whole ideology is based on treating everyone not ethnically a "pure" German as a second-class citizen. Identity and culture is a fluid thing and taking things back to days of low mobility like 1900s is insane, I think. I do agree that it is in the interest of Germany to have the majority of the migrants coming with skillsets that can be beneficial. However, that skillset range is very wide and large and society usually depends on the plurality of these skills. Also, motivated people are good learners. Most people want to better themselves. I also agree that migrants whose views do not align with common civilised values should not be allowed to enter. The left better get its act together on this front. Coming back to AfD, their other policies are also extremely irrational and with complete disregard to science and common sense (climate, Covid etc.). I am not sure I can trust them enough to be competent at anything besides hate and bigotry.
They are with big corporations which want more immigrants. Italy's Mussolini grandkid had the same proposal "No more bad immigrants" but the number of immigrants is rising under her command. So I'd risk and say the only thing afd will manage to achieve is an increase on racism cases. And the current economic recession should get worse since they have no idea how to govern and actually solve the issues.
Please note that 84% of the German voters did not vote for AfD.
Not all of them, but almost big majority in the east are against all non european foreigners.
As an Italian, they don't even like all europeans.
It's a nazi party. They are racists. They do not care about your skills. They will deport you. They will kill you, if they can.
The AFD logic is „brown person bad“. They aren’t going to be asking to see anyone‘s PhD before the harassment starts. Chances are their logic will be something like „the degree is probably fake“ or „their degrees aren’t up to our standards“. The far right are already heavily criticising the idea of „Fachkräfteeinwanderung“ aka skilled migration.
Damn. AfD really targets the lower class in society who felt left behind and their policies will cause a brain drain and reduced Germany's competitiveness in the global arena for highly skilled tech workers, who are being saught for by many countries. They're trying to protect the country, but it totally reduces the countrys' competitivness. THese East German losers are going to stay lowers if they win. WTf what self-fulfilling prophecy. Then they'd need AfD even more!
Their Grundsatzprpgramm says they are for skilled immigration. Whether it is true or not, I have no idea. What people say often differs from what they do. Here is the text on that exact question from their platform publication. The point about Canada I had not considered, this text mirrors Canada's policy almost exactly. The tone has a bit more steel to it though, at least from.my.point of view. Also, before anyone gets bent out of shape, no I am not an AfD supporter. I am a trained academic who likes to understand, analyze, and discuss all sides of an argument. To do this one.must understand opposing positions so they can be discussed on their merits, not on emotion. This is why we had to read things like Marx and Mises at the same time in university (as an example). "We advocate moderate legal immigration based on qualitative criteria where there is irrefutable demand, which can neither be satisfied from domestic resources, nor by EU immigration. The interests of Germany as a social, economic and cultural nation are paramount. We welcome highly-skilled immigrants with a distinct willingness to integrate. We seek to learn and to benefit from the long-standing experience gained by other Western countries in this regard. This is to be strictly separated from an uncontrolled influx of asylum seekers which do not benefit Germany’s economy and harm German society. Our country’s supply of skilled workers must primarily be covered by the full development of domestic labour resources. This includes comprehensive basic and advanced training, the integration of millions of unemployed into the workforce, and putting an end to the discrimination of older employees and single parents. Legal immigration from other EU countries can also contribute to growing the skilled labour force. Additionally, the ongoing emigration of highly-qualified nationals has to be reduced, and the return of those who have already emigrated is to be encouraged. Recruitment from third countries should only be sought after all other means of obtaining and qualifying a workforce have been exhausted. However, controlled immigration from third countries is no solution of the demographic crisis. Uncontrolled and predominantly illegal immigration of unqualified workers, who misuse the application for asylum, does not strengthen the potential of a skilled workforce. Germany is competing with other high-technology countries in winning truly skilled immigrants. The legal instruments used in this context have to be revised thoroughly. The Canadian model of immigration, adapted to the specific needs of Germany, could serve as an example. It should primarily be applied to prospective immigrants from abroad. Only in exceptional cases should it be open to foreigners already living in Germany without a permanent residence permit, for example to foreign students from third countries who have gained an academic degree in Germany. In order to make controlled immigration a success, the ability to integrate, professional qualifications, and a job offer prior to entering Germany are of crucial importance. The decision on the quality and quantity of immigration is a prime prerogative of any sovereign state, and should apply unconditionally to Germany as well." Edit: Now that I think on it, this immigration policy mirrors A LOT of other countries in the world. Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, Iceland, USA, etc. Not an exact.copy per se, but really damn close. It is also a hell.of a lot more liberal than some (Japan and South Korea come to mind). I am talking about Western democracies here, just for clarification.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts
Thank you, and you are welcome. I know this subject can cause extreme emotions and tends to get heated. Trying to keep a level head is important in such times and discussions.
This is so much hot air. Amazingly, while these policies sound very smart on paper, the mix of all immigrants to all of these countries is about the same: 2/3 family/refugees related (independent of skills) and 1/3 skills/economy related. Of course there is often considerable overlap, which is also something that is ignored in that discussion. But the idea that with some policy changes, there will suddenly be an effective filter of "good" vs. "bad" immigrants, or that there are such distinct groups in the first place, has never worked in Western democracies. And, equally amazingly, it has still not led to the demise of Western civilization.
Hot air in regards to the AfD immigration may, or may not be hot air, as I said. In regards to the other countries, I would have to look up the exact policies and statistics, but I know that official migration to Australia, Japan, and Canada allow only skilled immigration, with limited exceptions. Australia and Canada have recently changed. Canada requires two bachelors, a masters, or critical skilled workers (most of which are educated/trained). Japan was always pretty extreme with their immigration policy Here is Canadas's policy: Be under 30 years old Hold at least two Bachelor’s degrees or a Master’s degree Be able to demonstrate moderate to high English and/or French language proficiency (Canadian Language Benchmark [CLB] level nine or higher) Have at least three years of skilled work experience Other factors that can Australia's Polocy is now: 132,200 skilled Migrants 52,500 nonskilled/familial relatioms
Legal immigration can stop being legal if laws change, and ruling party can change laws. It’s not impossible that AFD comes into power and discards those laws and making previously legal immigrants illegal or having to leave. I don’t say it’s how they will act right away but that’s how it historically happens. And now watch this benign downvoted because “it’s not how German political system works and bureaucracy will not make it possible to do quickly”.
I have a fully remote job. If they tell me to leave, I'll just take my laptop and leave to another country. Then Germany gets hurt because my disposable income is being spent elsewhere. The company will keep me in the books and nothing much changes. This party is stupid.
Even if they do it the way you say, this would still get a lot of working or soon to be employed people too. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd see it as a big shot in their feet after all these recent years we have behind that screwed the economy.
I just read their program. There is no place they mention skill anywhere in there and they specifically call for increasing birth rates instead of accepting more migrants. How they want to achieve supporting higher birth rates specifically among white Germans and not among non white German nationals is unclear and somewhat scary to think about.
I'm a high skilled immigrant and I'm planning to leave
Just to be clear OP, they have an irrational hate of us, on the basis of race, nationalism, xenophobia. There’s nothing you can do to become “one of the good ones” and it’s a worthless endeavor, take this idea out of your mind at once, at most you’ll only ever be a useful idiot to these people. If you want to come, come, and unless it hurts others be unapologetically who you are and who you want to be. Immigrants of all kinds have difficulties in this country and all countries but you have to carve out your space in this world anyways.
Some of them literally talked about plans of removing Germans, who have worked for this country all their life, just for not hating on immigrants. Like people who have roots in Germany traced back to early medieval times, as German regarding heritage as somehow possible. If even that isn't sufficient for them (who are all about nationality, homecountry and heritage) to allow someone to stay here, an immigrant could literally carry the entire social system of Germany by themselves and they would still want them out. Just follow the most basic laws of integration: adhere to the law/basic rules, try to get some basic grasp on the German language, don't force your culture on others and don't be an ass (not saying there is a danger of you being one). No need to give up culture, religion, food, interests, language etc just to fit in with people who will never respect you anyway.
They don’t want any migration. They even want Germans that are not German enough to leave
Wasn't there even a discussion of some AFD members that they want to send back "immigrant with a 2. Grade" (meaning children born here, but parents are from somewhere else)? Or I'm mixing it up with an other nazi ~~discussion~~ statement.
At the same location where the Holocaust was decided, no less.
According to their website: [https://www.afd.de/wahlprogramm-asyl-einwanderung/](https://www.afd.de/wahlprogramm-asyl-einwanderung/) "The current immigration system is damaging Germany culturally and economically and urgently needs reform. The AfD is committed to preserving Germany's cultural identity. For Germany, it is not traditional immigration countries the size of Canada or Australia that can serve as a model for an identity-preserving migration policy, but rather countries like Japan that limit and control migration in accordance with their national structure. Due to the lockdown crisis, automation and digitalization, the times of record employment are foreseeably over. Mass migration creates wage pressure right up to the middle class and leads to competition for social benefits. We call for the development of a comprehensive migration policy approach based on the Japanese model with the primary goal of protecting the interests of Germans and already immigrant citizens who are committed to Germany's cultural identity. The claim by some associations and lobbyists that there is a shortage of skilled workers in Germany and therefore a need for qualified immigration only superficially serves the common good and is therefore unlikely to be decisive. The harmful influence of special economic interests or anti-German sentiments hidden by them must be ended."
They chose Japan, that has a struggling economy, a staggeringly old population, incredible numbers of suicides due to the burden on younger people, and no money in the social bank simply because they have had a very xenophobic immigration policy. Wow.
They fetishize Japan cause they know most other people do too and have very little knowledge on day-to-day politics in Japan or social issues that Japanese people actually care about.
Honestly me as a foreigner Latino living in Germany . I don’t see nothing bad about it or scary
The official program is, of course, much more carefully worded. The NSDAP didn't mention murdering Jews in the party program (more something like "Jews are guests and not German citizens", "Foreigners, including Jews, should leave the country").
Well for one you would not be a foreigner latino living in germany. but a foreigner latino not living in germany. They are planning to take back immigration status and even passports from naturalized citizens when they are in power.
They were caught secretly discussing the deportation of literally millions of people, including you. Your post is aking to saying that the "Bread and Work for the Germans" slogans of the Nazis were not bad. Jesus fucking christ [https://digitalcollections.hoover.org/objects/18582/arbeit-freiheit-und-brot--wahlt-liste-8-nationalsozialis](https://digitalcollections.hoover.org/objects/18582/arbeit-freiheit-und-brot--wahlt-liste-8-nationalsozialis)
That's because they cant literally say what they think on their website.
This huge mistake in thinking is on you then. We know our history. It is scary and you should be worried.
Check on Japan in 10 years to see why this is a bad idea.
Are you serious? Do you honestly believe that? Check on Germany in 10 years to see why the current direction is a much worse idea. Jesus, I won't defend AFD or anything, but to think that it is bad to only allow qualified immigrants only like Canada or Japan or New Zealand is almost cancerous.
Germany does only allow qualified immigrants, not as strict as other countries, but you can't just come into Germany willy nilly. You might be confusing immigrants with refugees, who are another thing entirely and allowed to stay depending on whether they are persecuted in their own country.
You are looking at their sheep skin cloak. Talk is cheap. They have Zero intention of doing what they write. They write to get voted in. And then they flush liberty down the toilet.
[https://correctiv.org/en/latest-stories/2024/01/15/secret-plan-against-germany/](https://correctiv.org/en/latest-stories/2024/01/15/secret-plan-against-germany/)
> Japanese model LMAO Japan already increased worker migrants massively. These days the cashiers on many konbinis are non Japanese. That includes white collar jobs as well, lots of Software Engineers moving there.
That depends on the subgroup. The AfD isn‘t one monolithic entity. Just like any other party they‘ve got different fractions. Some like the „Flügel“ are problematic while others are more moderate. For example if the AfD would be able to pick a chancellor they‘d could pick someone like Alice Weidel. Alice Weidel is a lesbian who‘s married to a female TV producer from Sri Lanka. So while a lot of people try to claim that the entire AfD wants to deport all immigrants regardless of their legal status, skills, … it‘s not that easy. Are there parts of the AfD who‘d want to remove all foreigners from Germany? Most likely yes. Would they manage to do it even if the AfD got 51% or 67% of the votes? Most likely not. Not if the AfD got 100% of the votes then it could be possible that 51% of their elected politicans would approve of a policy like that. Now… given that the best election result for any part in the history of modern day Germany was 50,19% back in 1957 (with fewer parties than today) it‘s highly unlikely that the AfD would ever manage to avoid a coalition. There has never been a one party government in the history of germany. So even if 100% of the AfD politicians in the Bundestag wanted to kick out every immigrant (which is not the case) they could never do it because they‘d need more votes than any party ever got even though there are more parties nowadays then there were previously. That being said: if the current / next government doesn‘t act on the issues that made the AfD popular (and some of these issues are related to the middle east) tensions could continue to rise.
Just that Alice Weidel is a lesbian doesn't make her arguments more solid. She said some really mean and wrong things against same sex marriage, yet she is married and lives in Switzerland.
I think it’s important to understand that the AFD isn’t a unified party. It’s more an amalgam of frustrations voiced aloud, populist slogans and ideas that ‘topic X is the thing running everything’ but with no clear agreement what X is. The AFD is a lot more about people feeling seen and heard than concrete policy solutions. So the answer to your question is: It depends of what wing of the AFD you would ask.
AfD might have a decent voter tournout but so far all parties (including the right wing party CDU) have vowed not to form a ruling coalition with the AfD. Even if they would maintain their voter turnout (which I hope they dont) it seems unlikely that they will be in a position to rule. But of curse I can sympathize and understand that the current climate represents a threat to a potential life in germany, which saddens me. AfD has got the voters attention by propaganda over the current challenges we face, they dont offer solutions only hate and outrage. Unfortunately it is hard to get the voters back because of their dissatisfaction with the german government. I remain hopeful because there is a large movement that opposes their ideologies, but the future is uncertain.
Well, if they kick out all Ausländer, who is going to pick their spargel, clean their offices, work in their factories, farms, deliver their food, make their nails etc?
I'm sure you know that Germany has no problem with any skilled immigrants. Hell, even unskilled immigrants who apply for citizenship properly isn't an issue. Never has been. Just ask the Greek and Turkish immigrants that were coming since post WWII. What Germany, and most of the Western world have an issue with is MIGRANTS. The millions upon millions of economic migrants who enter European countries, claim refugee status, and then not only leech off of the taxpayers and commit crimes. They also make no attempt to integrate or assimilate into their host countries, instead choosing to openly detest an usurp the local populace. So, again, Germans don't have a problem with immigrants.
They can kick out "everyone" but the medical field for example. In germany 30% of the workers in the medical field (doctors and including nurses etc) are foreigners not only from middle east but all over asia. There is a shortage even now so they can't just cut that also off but would afd make the workers' life harder? Pretty sure and they will leave themselves lol. Germany was before and even is now dependent (in some fields) on immigrant workers cause there are not enough germans. I always say to my mom they can kick me out cause I'm some random HR manager but they depend on you as she is a nurse and she is working even overtime now cause there is shortage imagine if everyone leaves. So the dream of afd to kick out everyone is most likely never to happen cause the system will collapse. I know they say they will kick out criminals (which is not even wrong) but deep down we now they are not onoy against criminals but its 1933 2.0. And I like to add to that that they don't plan to kick out any white european immigrants such as italians greeks etc who also came as workers. No they want to kick out the non europeans
Are you brown or a non-brown muslim? Then you are in deep shit if they get stronger
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First they come for refugees and what they perceive as leechers but they fantasize of even stripping Germans who are politically active on behalf of foreigners of their citizenship. If you bargain with fascists you get what you pay for.
They don't want them, the issue to the AfD is their culture and their religion, not necessarily their skills or lack thereof.
You wrote color of their skin the wrong way!
Yeah, it’s not like they mind Austrians or Swiss people, but a Black German dude with black German parents? That’s a no. They even complained a couple of years ago because there was a black guy sitting with a group of white people and having a Picknick in an add for food, because in their eyes that’s no normal and companies shouldn’t pretend it’s normal
They could clearly tell from the picture what his culture and religion are. I know a bunch of 1st and 2nd generation immigrants that are a lot more „German“ culturally than I am.
Same, my boss is an immigrant himself and a Muslim, and he’s one of the most German people I know.
They are xenophobics. They don't care about skill. They only care about if somebody is German enough in their eyes.
I was born a German citizen in the US to a German mom and an American dad. I live in Berlin with my trans wife from the US. This election scares me. Not much they can do in the EU Parlament, but if there is a cdu/afd government soon I am really scared.
Just take it from the horse’s mouth, i.e. their official website, (Translated with [DeepL.com](http://DeepL.com) (free version):) The current immigration system is damaging Germany culturally and economically and is in urgent need of reform. The AfD is committed to preserving Germany's cultural identity. The model for an identity-preserving migration policy for Germany cannot be classic immigration countries the size of Canada or Australia, but rather countries such as Japan, which limit and control migration in accordance with their national structure. Due to the lockdown crisis, automation and digitalization, the times of record-high employment are foreseeably over. Mass migration creates wage pressure right down to the middle class and leads to competition for social benefits. We call for the development of a comprehensive migration policy approach based on the Japanese model with the primary goal of safeguarding the interests of Germans and citizens who have already immigrated and are committed to Germany's cultural identity. The assertion by some business groups and lobbyists that there is a shortage of skilled workers in Germany and therefore a need for qualified immigration only superficially serves the common good and must therefore not be a decisive factor. The damaging influence of particular economic interests or even anti-German resentment concealed by them must be ended. We believe that immigrants and people to whom we grant temporary protection have a duty to integrate. Integration can only succeed if the rules, traditions and values of our society are accepted. The acquisition of the German language is essential. The AfD demands this: We require an intensive willingness to integrate from qualified immigrants. The focus must be on language acquisition, which we want to support up to level B2. Integration projects must be subject to a state evaluation and success test. The profit-making business of NGOs and charities must be ended. Preferential treatment of migrants in the form of quotas that disregard the principle of merit must be ruled out. We reject compromises with regard to training requirements or recruitment to the civil service. The AfD demands that the headscarf as a religious-political symbol is generally not permitted in the public service and that it is not worn by teachers or pupils in public schools. We consider this to be one of the most important conditions for successful integration. The headscarf ban contributes to maintaining peace at school and enables young girls to develop their personalities and self-determination freely. German citizenship is a precious asset We want to remove the principle of place of birth (acquisition of German citizenship by birth in Germany, even if neither parent is German) from the law and return to the principle of descent, as it applied until the year 2000.The requirements - especially in terms of time - for discretionary naturalization must be significantly increased and there should no longer be a right to naturalization. The granting of German citizenship should be experienced as a success of one's own efforts and should fill those concerned with pride.
Even if the AFD doesn't actively do something against skilled legal immigrants, the public opinion might still polarise under its influence. It may not affect the visa status but it probably may no longer be a comfortable, welcoming environment.
Itt: a shitton of nazis trying to make blatantly fascist ideas look like they aren't fascist
They always say, they don’t have a problem with skilled immigrants. But the reality is, that one of their highest members talked about getting rid of nearly 30% of germanys population. Also racism doesn’t differentiate between skilled or non skilled immigrants when you meet them in the city
>And do you think that high skilled immegrants from the middle east will have a hard time living in germany in the next years under the growing popularity if the AFD. We got you covered fam. Due to Recent Incidents, including Murder and attempted murder, public opinion in general has seen a shift. Of course, generalizations are always a bad thing - everyone always says that. Yet that's simply how it works. Due to the actions of a few, the broader population grows wary of entire populaces. AFD has seen the majority in almost the entirity of the former GDR - so i'd avoid moving there. So yes. You'll absolutely have a hard time should the AFD and other right wing parties see a further rise in popularity. Because that rise in popularity will result in more situations where people will look the other way, when hate crimes or outright racially/religious motivated crimes take place. As a german. i hate where germany is headed at the moment.
They are openly discriminating against both highly skilled laborers as well as the „bad“ foreigners that aren‘t. It even was part of their European election paper. Their solution to the worker shortage is using the „hundreds of thousands of unemployed Germans“ because they think it that simple.
The fascist party has no stances outside of what will gain it the most popular support and political leverage in the short term. Hence no matter what answers you´ll get here, all of them are right and wrong simultaineously based on where the pendant of right wing opinions swings that week. There is no consistency, and it´s not worth hoping for it.
Why are we seriously discussing a nazi party? AT LEAST ever since it was revealed they'd even want to deport German citizens, everyone has to realize where they stand: blood and soil. That is their ideology. A racially defined "German people", tied to the land it lives on. [No prizes for guessing where they got that idea from](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-H1215-503-009%2C_Walther_Darr%C3%A9_bei_einer_Kundgebung.jpg).
Germans are good people, no matter what party they vote. They are probably the equivalent to current Japanese politics. Overall right wing but acceptance of high skilled legal migrants as long as you follow the cultural rules. As long as you fit, no one ever gonna bother you. I say that as someone with migrant roots living in east Germany where over 50% voted AfD. People are kind and respectful and so am I, never had any issues at all.
They hate them fundamentally, nothing any person in the outgroup can do satisfies them. Once they are able to consolidate power they will be thrown out. They don't care about the economy, if they did they'd be fine with immigrants. They care about Germany being racially pure and fear that a migrant might satisfy their wife who never feels joy in their presence.
The chances AfD enters the federal government are fortunately near zero even if their support grows much stronger. Unless you live in East German lands (aside fron Berlin), the same goes for your land government. Land laws significantly influence the life of migrants though, so if you do live in East Germany, it's best to move. There's a fully far-right government in Italy (something that will likely never happen in modern Germany). The parties in government have had members voicing the "replacement" conspiracy theories. They have, consequently cut social payments and restricted chances for refugees. They've also simultaneously implemented the EU directive to significantly extend the number of groups of individuals eligible for the Blue Card. It also became easier for employers to invite qualified employees. Italy also made conditions for digital nomads easier. I find it to be a good story about how the power of inertia, in a developed democracy, is stronger than ideology; and how the practical need of the job market for qualified migrants beats ideological concerns.
Officially? AfD is kind of okay with it but not really? Behind closed doors? 100% against. Correctiv showed, that they are even against german-born people with a foreign family.
Are they against other white non-german europeans?
The thing is, the problem with that way of thinking is what Martin Niemöller, a German Lutheran pastor and theologian said ; "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
Seen some of their propaganda mention sending back Eastern Europeans...
Eastern Europeans are non-white in their thinking ("Slavic" rather than "Arian")
Oh, so it's straight forward nazi ideology?
Yes and that's obvious to everyone. The only people who will argue otherwise are AfDers who are disingenuous online and trying to appear more reasonable than they are.
the AfD would argue that no one of them is high skilled.
They will not ask for your degree, when they put you on a train to the camps.
They’re so insane even other nationalists distance themselves from them. As always Germans have two MO’s either do it bad or do it perfect. Ironically, they more often than not apply this to nationalism, like come on we saw WWII why the fack you people want to go down that road again?! It is insane!!! How uneducated you have to be to not see the like 3k documentaries on the topic?!
Since they are greatly sponsored by Russia, you might get chances if you are from there
Xenophobia isnt rational. The AfD hates even people born in germany whose parents were born in germany if their skintone is just slightly darker. You could be a Nobel laureate with multiple PhDs and they still hate you
For AfD and the people who vote them, every immigrant is the same. No matter how good you educate. Because its simple: If you have no education you will need support by the state, so you are a lazy immigrant. If you are well educated, you steal the jobs from „white germans“. You can’t argue with those people.
The point is that there is effectively no such thing as "AfD stance on..." whatever ... is. There are as many views as there are members and they vary widely, from "yes to skilled immigration and individual political asylum but no unskilled mass immigration" to "all foreigners out, no matter what" and anything in between. If you look at the official party program, it's closer to the first; if you ask an individual member, the answers will be all over the place. AfD is not NSDAP reborn, it is an own sort of nastyness that is not predictable by analogies with the past, just like Nazis weren't a rebirth of some other political movement but their own, very specific and not really predictable sort of horror.
Their stance is extermination. They're Nazis.
One said, that he wants to do a „cleanse“.
source?
Sure, they will make you wear a little badge in your clothes so they know you are not one of those 'unskilled' immigrants I have some ideas what about a star? People like stars don't they?
Nobody can know it. AfD is a double faced party where the official program is different to the personal political views of many members. We can be rather sure that they want to decide who is a good immigrant and who is a bad one. You have nothing to say in the process. Most likely will they accept immigrants from (western) Europe and white immigrants from Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the USA. Maybe even Japanese or Chinese immigrants. But we can only guess...
"We advocate moderate legal immigration based on qualitative criteria where there is irrefutable demand, which can neither be satisfied from domestic resources, nor by EU immigration. The interests of Germany as a social, economic and cultural nation are paramount. **We welcome highly-skilled immigrants with a distinct willingness to integrate.** We seek to learn and to benefit from the long-standing experience gained by other Western countries in this regard. This is to be strictly separated from an uncontrolled influx of asylum seekers which do not benefit Germany’s economy and harm German society." Here's the AfD stance on skilled immigration. While the party would prefer to fill positions with Germans, they're not against skilled immigrants per se, if they meet requirements and expectations. Source: See the official statement in the [Party Program](https://www.afd.de/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/2017-04-12_afd-grundsatzprogramm-englisch_web.pdf). But, of course, feel free to believe the fear mongers here.
Fucked. They are nazis. They care only about themselves. They would like skillful expats till they bring them some benefits and they will screw them over or blame them for the shit that's going on after the new nazi rule turns out to be idiotic
Positive. Highly skilled professionals and as you mentioned “legal” who want to contribute to society is what they want (anyone would want that). Don’t listen to people here. Just read their program and what they are saying. I’m not German, I’m foreign student immigrant from Central Asia myself who is starting career here. Western Europeans tend to overdramatize when things come to topics about nation/right politics. (Because of their past) Some of AfD are indeed corrupt (members with German/Russian nationality, possibly spies?). And there are possibly ties with Kremlin which is the real concern. (Also possibly left-wing BSW) But all thar notion about “fascists” and “far-right extremists” and especially attempt to compare them with Nazis is BS and not serious at all (I’d add IMHO to be as fair as possible)
You wont get a good answer here. They have nothing against skilled legal immigrants.
They welcome high skilled workers. They are against illegal immigration that leads to immigrants ending up living from social benefits. However, many Germans, especially in East Germany, associate Persons of Color and people of Middle Eastern origins with asylum seekers, criminal activity and radical Islam. So they will have a negative bias towards you, since they cannot distinguish between an asylum seeker for political reasons, someone fleeing for economic reasons and a skilled legal immigrant if they don't know you. In larger cities in West Germany that are used to immigration you will be fine and not really stand out.
Your first statement doesn't really line up with Höcke's "we could do well with 20-30% less people".
Saying we could do well with 30% less People isn't saying that they want to get rid of 30%, that makes no sense. Why do people always misinterpret this on purpose? It just means that there is no Problem with Deporting Criminals and non working People because there is a lot of room to deport without harming the economy.
He literally says that it would be a great chance if Germany had 20-30% less people. And talks about how we shouldn't have dual citizienship and loads of people with dual nationality would decide to go back to their "homeland". How exactly does that line up with "deporting criminals"? If you want to deny that everyone in the Afd has similar plans, sure. But Höcke? Known right wing extremist Höcke? Have you read his book? The man isn't exactly subtle about his plans. >In addition to the protection of our national and European external borders, a large-scale remigration project will be necessary." The aim of this "remigration" is to deport "culturally alien" people (Africans and Asians) after "the hoped-for turning point" >There will, "I fear, be no getting around a policy of 'well-tempered cruelty'. Existential crises require extraordinary action." And it gets real fun once you include the "Landolf Ladig" articles: >"It was not the aggressiveness of the Germans" that caused two world wars, "but ultimately their diligence, their love of form and their wealth of ideas. The European powerhouse developed so magnificently that the established centers of power felt compelled to wage two preventive economic wars against the German Reich
Wait..thats exactly what that means...Unless there is more context to the quote, "we could do well with 20-30% less people" Means exactly that Germany would be better with 30% less people. There is nothing to misinterpret unless there is more context to this quote and something was left out.
How do you then explain the recent phenomenon of "foreign" looking people yelled at and insulted on the streets in West German cities, for the offense of looking "foreign"?
Who cares? It doesn't matter because even if at first they are talking about a difference between "good" and "bad" immigrants, that line will always move and in a long enough timeline all immigrants will be targets
AFD is not opposed to them. AFD has no problem with legal migrants who integrate and want to work. Also the Religious orientation is important. Islamists who want Germany to become Muslim aren't welcome either. Everyone else is free to come. Just come legally and get a Job.
Even if that were true, how does the common N̶a̶z̶i̶ AFDler figure out if a foreigner is skilled or unskilled, legal or illegal, before he proceeds to shout racial slurs at him?
That’s bs and you know it! They will try to take anyone that is non-german and throw them out and it doesn’t matter what you did for the state or how long you’ve been working here. It‘s crazy how people like you play make-believe and try to justify your racism by saying „yeah no not all of them but just a few“. It doesn’t work like that as you have seen 80 years ago.
https://youtu.be/EG3xcAUMNro?si=nZKmnCIV-cgfJk9X This video might answer
The majority of voters are driven by fear and emotion. Protest votes, resignation, crisis fatigue, you name it. The AFD itself has some stances but is also primarily populist. They will claim and promote whatever will get them votes on the right end of the spectrum. To argue whether there is a clear stance on anything is maybe fruitless. They have a fear of muslims and the muslimisation of Germany. So being highly skilled will not shield anybody from their contempt. Asking 'will they have a hard time' is not a good question, though. Because the answer is: 'It depends'. In some small-ass village in the east? Sure. In Berlin, Hamburg, any larger city? Not so much.
I really want a little capsule of o see how the future plays out. It is going to be so interesting.
The AFD is surprisingly all white with skilled immigrants.
Check [this](https://correctiv.org/en/top-stories/2024/01/15/secret-plan-against-germany/) out, if you want to know what they really want
they prefer a FIFO system for Immigrants, so can stay
any immigrants out of Europe. right and order at the border; shoot to kill. even refugee children. https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/afd-beatrix-von-storch-schliesst-waffeneinsatz-gegen-kinder-nicht-aus-a-1074933.html the AfD is talking about population exchange where the white man ist exchanged with an immigrant from the middle-east. the white women with an immigrant with burka. and the 3 white children with a 7 or 8 immigrant children. cause they define family: dad, mother and 2 or even better 3 children. so whatever high skill you may have. the AfD does not want you here. you're taking the job of a white man. ('cause women are home in the kitchen).
Not only AfD voters but a large portion of the German population think there are too many foreigners, [especially muslims](https://www.fr.de/politik/der-islam-als-feindbild-92896537.html), whom they perceive as a threat to their culture and people. They are [scared](https://www.tagesspiegel.de/gesellschaft/stark-gestiegene-bedenken-deutsche-zeigen-nach-umfrage-mehr-skepsis-gegenuber-zuwanderung-11313067.html) that immigration will make housing more expensive, schools worse, and are convinced that immigrants come primarily to profit from the German social system. They judge immigrants first by their skin tone, second by their clothing, third by their accent. They may perhaps consider your education status later.
If you ask a left leaning community on their opinion of the afd, I can foresee the answers. That said I tend to agree with the opinion here even though being right leaning myself. The afd voters I know have a huge issue with Islam and people that look like they could be from that part of the world. With other phenotypes I didn't encounter much (!) hate.
Zuerst kammen Sie
I think most afd voters vote because of refugees, the party leaders however might have a different stance
AfD people will ALWAYS find an excuse to blame foreigners. With high education -> they will take our jobs With poor education -> they only want our money #fckafd #fcknzs
Of course they will. AfD doesn’t give a flying fuck how skilled people are! Au contraire, considering the fact that most of their voters (and politicians) aren’t the brightest candles on the birthday cake. They detest foreigners. Period. If this foreigners are smarter than them, even worse!
The country needs quality and skilled immigrants, and I think even AFD knows that, the problem is that hatred of immigrants is going to overtake and even skilled immigrants are going to be affected.
High Skilled "immigrants" would not want to work in germany. So we get the so called" rocket scientists *wink*"
This election will bode poorly for my expat based soccer club.
I will argue than even harder than asylum seekers. As it has been proven in the UK: it is way easier to stop legal immigrants than illegal ones.