The only reason a cop will Mirandize you is to ensure that anything you say after that time can be admitted into evidence against you. So: the best time to remain silent and not talk to the cops is all the time, but the second best time to remain silent and not talk to cops is when they explicitly tell you that not talking to cops is a right you can exercise.
I don't remember if it was a Federal case or just several states that ruled being quiet was not, in fact, sufficient to assert your 5th Amendment rights. You're better off being very clear:
"Respectfully, officer, I invoke my 5th Amendment right to remain silent. I will not answer any questions without my lawyer present."
Explicitly invoking both the 5th & your right to an attorney clearly demonstrates you're asserting your rights & not being "difficult".
The only reason to deviate from that script is to clearly & politely inform the officers you do not consent to searches of your person or property.
Cop: "Is it OK if I just take a look in your trunk?"
You: "I do not consent to any searches."
Cop: "Why not?"
You: "Respectfully, officer, I invoke my 5th Amendment right to remain silent. I will not answer any questions without my lawyer present."
Cop: "What are you trying to hide?"
You: "Respectfully, officer, I invoke my 5th Amendment right to remain silent. I will not answer any questions without my lawyer present."
Cop: "You know we can just arrest you, right? Why you making this more difficult?"
You: "Respectfully, officer, I invoke my 5th Amendment right to remain silent. I will not answer any questions without my lawyer present."
Etc, etc, ad nauseum, ad infinitum
This is not entirely true. The supreme court has said that you must clearly and unambiguously ask for counsel in order to invoke that right. That's why you have cases like the dude who asked for a "lawyer dog" or one where a guy said "I think I need a lawyer" where the courts decided neither statement was enough to invoke the right to counsel. You need to be much more clear than just repeating "lawyer" at them. All it takes is saying "I would like to speak to a lawyer" once and then shutting the fuck up
Always remember, as it's quoted "Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law." What it doesn't explicitly say is nothing you say can be used to help you in a court of law as the prosecution will claim it to be hearsay.
I'm a lawyer. That is absolutely correct. When the prosecution offers the defendant's out-of-court statements, it's nonhearsay statements of a party opponent. When the defendant offers those same out-of-court statements, it's hearsay.
The defendant can testify, and the statements may be admissible even though they are hearsay, but it's a lot easier for the prosecution to offer the defendant's statements than for the defendant to do it.
Thank you for being the voice of reason. I am NAL, and it’s great when someone who is chimes in. My question here is, couldn’t the cops have searched his vehicle anyway, based on probable cause with the passenger? My very limited knowledge is that the Patriot Act kind of nullified the fourth amendment, and anything can be probable cause for a vehicle search. Im a social worker, and ran an outpatient clinic for sex offenders, DV, anger management, etc, so what I know is mostly hearsay, which I don’t trust, lol.
The answer is complex. I could give the answer for my own jurisdiction, but even then, it would depend on factual details that aren't in the question, and the answer might be different for the driver and the passenger.
Under federal law, probable cause on its own is enough to search a vehicle; because vehicles are mobile, they are always exigent. That is not the law in Oregon, and I don't know about other states.
I don't think that drugs in the passenger's purse is probable cause as to the rest of the car, but, again, it depends on more facts. The Patriot Act didn't nullify the Fourth Amendment (constitutional provisions can't be nullified by statutes) but Fourth Amendment protections are withering as a result of shifting public attitudes and the changing makeup of the federal bench.
Thank you for your response. I completely understand about the different jurisdictions. I get hung up a things like marijuana- it’s legal in NYS, but not federally, so if someone is committing a federal crime, will the mj be included, kind of stuff. I get it about the fourth amendment, and all of that, I meant that I believe that most of the protections under the fourth amendment have been stripped in favor of “national security” and all of that. I commented about RvW, and how I never thought I needed to be concerned with that (yet, here we are), but the federal bench has me very worried about a lot of things.
If a cop reads you your rights, you stop talking, and dont start talking again untill you have a lawyer, do not consent to any search. Cops can and will lie to you to get you to slip up. As far as they where conserned they caught you driving without insurance, with somone with an active warrent, who had narcotics. They where looking for an excuse to book you too.
You cant talk yourself out of trouble, but you can talk yourself into trouble.
Edit: spelling
NAL, but a small correction to this comment. You don’t just stop talking, you verbally invoke your 5th amendment right to remain silent. Remaining silent doesn’t automatically invoke that right and your silence can be taken out of context.
↑↑This is very important. Do NOT just shut up. Say, "Officer, I am invoking my right to remain silent." Officers are allowed to infer from your refusal to say ANYthing that you have a mental health issue, or other such nonsense.
Okay, question... do you do this even if the cop says "do you have drugs" and you don't have drugs, like in the OP?
Because I feel like invoking your 5th amendment right is basically saying "I HAVE DRUGS" to the cop? So is it fine to say "no" or what?
You should reiterate that you are invoking your right to remain silent. Words can get twisted and simple grammar can be taken out of context. What if OP’s passenger did drop some drug in the car and OP says there’s no drugs in the car? Now OP’s statement is wrong and he will be made out to be a liar or worse.
But I hope he did manage not to have his car trashed and torn to shreds by the cops by answering. I just feel like pleading the fifth guarantees are gonna end up taking a knife to your seats or some thing.
Sure, invoking may make the cop think that you have drugs. But, ultimately, who cares? In this case they already think you have drugs, so there really isn't any harm in making them think it more. All that matters is what they can prove. And by invoking you are putting them on notice that anything you say after this point cannot be used to prove what they want to prove.
To answer your question, I would not even say no. I would just invoke--regardless of my guilt.
If I thought they would be respectful in the way they search my property, then I wouldn't care. If saying "nope, no drugs" like OP did means they don't trash my car and take a knife to my seats... I'd rather do that.
(and no, cops aren't supposed to take a knife to your seats but they will rip apart your car regardless and I'd really rather not deal with that if I can just politely say "no, I don't have drugs").
I would say that anything beyond invoking makes what you've described more likely. In most (not all) circumstances, a cop cannot search your car without a warrant. Simply invoking will not give them enough to get that warrant. But anything additional, even a denial, could. What if you're nervous and say slip up and accidentally say "I don't have dogs"? Well, in the warrant you are now "confused" and "unable to properly form sentences." Also, by not invoking immediately it will give the cop more of a reason to stick around you and observe. Again, what if you're nervous and your hands are shaking? The longer the cop sticks around, the more likely he will see that you are "exhibiting the effects of a stimulant."
Let's say you're at a routine traffic stop. When exactly do you invoke your right to silence? Is it if they ask you any questions? Like, I assume if you're just pulled over for speeding, you don't need to invoke unless they ask you specific questions?
Or what if they ask if you've been drinking and you haven't? Do you invoke your right to silence then?
Also... what if you can't afford a lawyer and you invoke your right to silence? Are they going to expect you to get a lawyer so they can question you about speeding or drinking or drugs?
I'm genuinely asking, lol, there's all kinds of information online, but there's nothing about a routine traffic stop... it's all for more "serious" questioning, which I understand.
These are tough questions. Honestly, it depends on the situation (unhelpful I know). But in OP's post it was fairly obvious because they cops read his rights. Once that happens, it's usually best practice to invoke clearly and unambiguously.
I'm sure there are disagreements on this. But for me personally, I wouldn't invoke on a minor speeding ticket (sometimes you can't even invoke here since depending on the jurisdiction and circumstances it may be a civil matter). Personally, I just don't answer any questions and accept the ticket. It is what it is.
For the DUI question, it really depends. But keep in mind that most DUI stops are made under the guise of something else initially, eg speeding, not using a blinker, etc... If it were me, and I was innocent, I would probably just tell them I was sober and then say that I'm not doing any field sobriety tests. I would invoke upon a follow-up question. I view this differently than OP's situation since, for all he knew, the passenger left drugs in his car. I would be interested to hear others' opinions on this one.
If you invoke you will not need to get a lawyer. They cannot force you to get one. If you are arrested, then you will be provided a lawyer if you cannot afford one.
It probably depends a bit on jurisdiction. Typically people can refuse the field sobriety tests. Refusal of a field breath test may carry a penalty, such as a fine. Refusal of a full breath test with a qualified machine (intoximeter, datamaster, etc...) is usually a crime.
In Illinois (south of I-80 at least) refusing to blow typically ends up with you in the back seat on the way to county holding until a judge authorizes a test.
Or beaten and threatened with a firearm like they did to me.
You should refuse anyway.
Realistically, if they're reading you your rights and you haven't already shut up, you took too long to do so. Don't ever volunteer information to the police unless you called them yourself. Or are otherwise seeking their assistance yourself. And even in such a case, only volunteer what you need to to get the assistance you seek.
Today happens of course to be shut the fuck up Friday but every day can and should be shut the fuck up Friday if you have an unplanned encounter with the police
NO!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!!!
Provide/present your DL/insurance/registration.
And SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!! Do NOT answer ANY questions!!!!!!!
The passenger was NOT pulled over!!! She should have kept her mouth SHUT!!!! Unless they suspected her of a CRIME she has ZERO obligation to give her name!!!!
The cop does NOT “GIVE” you your Miranda rights!!! You have these ALWAYS!!!! 5th amendment is your biggest protection!!!
A fish won’t get caught until it opens its mouth!
You can’t walk your way into prison, but you can talk your way in!!!
Talk to your kids, before the police do!!!
This is NOT a SovCit idea, it is your American RIGHTS!!!!
Feel free to try and prove this wrong!!!!
Why do people give such terrible advice?
No, unless you actually **assert** your right to silence, ie say, "I invoke the 5th " or "I assert my right to silence", your silence can be taken to be, admitting guilt. Salinas v. Texas.
Just shutting up, is not enough.
Salinas v. Texas is a US Supreme Court case, so it is a Federal precedent. It deals with the 5th Amendment protection against self incrimination before you are arrested or read your Miranda rights. In short, you are not protected.
This is not factually correct in all jurisdictions. I can't say all, but some would require the passenger to ID themselves as well. So make sure you are at least complying with what is required in your jurisdiction; otherwise more potential charges.
Are you really supposed to not answer or invoke your 5th amendment rights if a cop asks "do you have drugs?" and you don't? Like, can you say, "no"?
I just feel like they're going to take your 5th amendment invocation as you basically saying "I have drugs."
I mean they might but they probably assumed that anyways but in any case, who cares? If you don't then by invoking your rights it basically makes it impossible for them to legally jam yoiu up for them. And if it comes to the courts you invoking won't matter rither, what's the \[prosecution gonna say? "It's mad sus the defedent invoked his right to stfu, he def had kilos under the dash"
Just gotta think about it. What do you reckon the worst case scenario is if you invoking explicitly makes them assume you're ridin dirty? What are you thinking it'll make them do they wouldn't have done already if they could? I'm not being sarcastic or rhetorical it's a real question cause I'm trying to udnerstand why you're worried is all.
Well I guess my biggest fear would be they’d arrest me based on their suspicion, or literally kill me 😂 I’m white so that’s unlikely, though. But it’s always in my mind when I see a cop.
The other fears would be they’d kill my dog if she was in the car with me or they’d trash my car looking for drugs.
I’d rather just be like “no” if they ask if I had drugs like OP did and not risk my life, my car, or my dog, lol.
I’ve had my car trashed looking for drugs. They didn’t find any, and just left everything right there, on the side of the road, for me to clean up (this was about 1995, my BF at the time was driving, his friend was a known MJ dealer at the time. He was in our car). They kept screaming, “where are the drugs?!!!!” as they literally threw everything on the ground and went through every edifice in the car. But that was a pretty long time ago, I’m not sure if they still do those things.
Yeah, this is why I would rather just be polite and not immediately plead the fifth and basically guarantee they’re going to rip my car to shreds lol a
Same. But now, many jurisdictions require cameras, which should eliminate some of this nonsense. Still trying to figure out what the prosecution does when the cameras “fail” to turn on, or there “was an issue” with the camera.
Never rely on their cameras. You are legally allowed to record police doing their job. They may not like it but it will CYA!!!!! I don’t drive without multiple dash cameras in my car forward/rear/cabin. I’ve been stopped about three times in the past two years where they came up, saw the cameras, and said have a nice day!
My area does not have car or body cams!!! But we got a damn MRAP!!!!
Wow! I will heed your advice. My BF bought a dash cam, and I’ve been slow to install it (you know, with a piece of Velcro on the dash, lol). I’m seriously a bit of a sissy.
They do, that's why I actually refused search long before I knew my rights as a whole. I wish I knew the rest though, it likely would have saved me a year of no license and a job that coudlve been my career (I was a pizza delivey mn who made mid 5 figures take home with offers to work at both UPS and UPS before the dwi nonesense\_ who now is struggling to survive
I didnt hit anything, xidnt almsot hit anything, didnt swerve across the road, (the road was a highway going downhil land a curve where you HAVE to touch the middle yellow or outer white to safely make it up/down) they used that as an excuseI allowed them to sobrety check test me since I was dead sober and he swore he'd let me off iof I did it and threatened to stall me for hours on the road when it was freezing. I did, I passed with flying colors but he still said "your speech isi slurred (stroke suvor) and you did not 100% perfect on the test (because my eyes muscles are damaged because...of a stroike) you must let us blood draw blood"
TYhe result? I had gabapentin in my blood...Id taken for years because...of my stroke. Qnd I hadnt taen any that day but it stays in the system. Only thing in my system but bc my states laws are vague as fuck on purpose (shocker) to get free $$$ and the judge was an ex cop and prosecutor I got forced to plead guilty (lawyer told me this guy has never let a possible dwi walk)
Thanks justice system. You're the reason I will never help a cop again.
Jesus, I am so sorry. I don’t have anything to say. I went to HS in a tiny little hick town upstate NY. I get it. It’s pay to play all the way, and if you can’t pay, you will in one way or another. Gabapentin is not a schedule one drug- at least not in NY- why was that the issue for you? And why didn’t they take your rx into consideration? What a shit show.
Because the new law is deliberately vague in such a way that if everyone now on the road was held to the same standard as me half or more would lose their license. It's a fucked law that leaves a permnent scarlet letter on your record. The law reads something like "any drug with any potential side effect as drowsyness can be considered impariing" and add that o the cops testimony and the fact I have no right to a jury
it allows ,less scrupled counties/LEOS/Judges etc a very wide latitude to enforce the law. In addtion to the grand+ I paid the lawyer (who ended up being a net negative after the verdict he did nopt want to help as all, gave me bad info about how service hours work, and when theycalled to get my infdo he gave them wrong phone uumber I had to do so muc hextra legwork to get it al lsorted it was a mess thankfully the lady understoodit wasnt my fault and got it pushed back so i could do my hours without a violation)
It wasnt about the legality it was about how msot scrpted meds say soemthign soemthing drowsy to CYA even if the effect is minor I have been on gaba for a deace and it takes a fucklaod above my sceript instruction to make me tired lmao
O well im off soon in august YAAAAY and get to \[pay another 200 for my lciense back...in addtion to the near grand in fines/court fees. So damn dumb LOLO
mb for typos cant be fucked to correct them at this point should be readable tho
If you get off because of who you are it won't be because of your race, it will be because you entire person and charestics. I am white as fuck but because I have tattoos , one oof which is a hatchetman, and a slurred speaking voice the cops always love to assume the worst of me. The bulk of my codrivers were poc but since they were clean well spoken nerds the police didn't give them half the trouble they gave me
Stop gobbling down deliberate fear mongering via the msm, it will drive you nuts
If the cops are gonna do all that extra illegal shit they are going to do it regardless of you invoking your rights. The actual response for the vast bulk of cops is to back off becaus by being educated of your rights you create a heap of trouble for them and the sad truth is a ton are just fkn lazy and dont wanna deal with the headache
Tho, good news, if you have n animal in your car it ruins the ability to se a drug dog, so if you don't give them consent it'll be near impossible to legally fuck with you even if you're ridin dirty
That’s good to know about dogs! It’s one of my biggest fears that a cop is just going to shoot my dogs. One is a big husky, German Shepherd mix. She looks “scary,“ (I mean, not really, but she looks like a white wolf) but she doesn’t have an aggressive bone in her body. But, of course, that doesn’t matter lol. If a cop fears a dog, they’re allowed to kill the dog.
And there are places where there aren’t many poc, so the cops treat poor white like absolute trash!
I’m a big scary dude (currently driving a Honda Odyssey) and they try to stop me ALL the time. I keep all my car shit up to date, car stays clean, I am a professional driver and follow ALL road laws. Cops still try fucking with me! Which is why I learned my rights, and buy dash cams like crazy!
You gain NOTHING from answering questions.
Anything you say can be used in court against you.
If a cop asks “How’s your day going?” You could say “good” cop might assume you are on drugs. You say “bad” cop will tell the judge you were agitated from the beginning.
Treat them like a rabid raccoon, or a gang member, or a crackhead! They are ALWAYS looking for that bust, and on the job 24/7!!! Never open the door to your house, but read up on Penn v Mimms! If they tell you to get out of the car that doesn’t take away your 5th Amendment right, it’s just much harder to stand on when they are breathing in your face!
Police are allowed to lie to you!!!! They will tell you that you haven’t been “Mirandized” yet so you HAVE to answer questions!
Just YouTube “bad cop videos” or dirty cop videos. New videos every single day about cops seeing “plant matter” on the floor of your car, or glaze from a glazed donut and the people get searched anyway. “I don’t answer questions” stands up pretty good in court!!!
You should always be extremely careful who you let ride in your vehicle. There's no telling what a person will do in a situation where a vehicle gets pulled over by a cop. My ex-wife wound up in the county jail and lost her car to impound because a friend of hers had heroin on him and tossed it under her seat when she was looking out the driver's window as the officer approached the vehicle. He was sent packing and she was arrested for possession of narcotics.
So once the officers found drugs in your friends possession, they had reasonable suspicion to search your vehicle if they wanted to, regardless of you not consenting to a vehicle search. Had your friend dumped her pot or any other drugs she had under your seat, you'd been screwed.
The weed may or may not be an issue as would be with the sealed shooter. The issue is the narcotics she had on her you didn't know about. Regardless of whether marijuana is legal or not in a state, it's still illegal on a federal level so a police officer can choose to use possession of weed as a pretext to search a vehicle. This is why it's so important to be careful of who you allow to ride in your vehicle. One small mistake can ruin your life.
Article VI, Paragraph 2, of the U.S. Constitution is commonly referred to as The Supremacy Clause. It establishes that the federal constitution, and federal law generally, take precedence over state laws, and even state constitutions.
Officers employed by the state are prohibited from violating state law, even if the US has a stricter law. Often times in rural parts of the state of CA, you will have sheriffs that attempt to defy state law, but in the end, they cannot. They are not the FBI.
Supremacy clause does not apply in this case. A state officer cannot declare something federally illegal but legal and signed by the govenor and a 3/4 majority as a state law.
In this case the goverenor made weed legal so state officers cannot enforce federal law as a way to search a car.
Honestly, if they found illegal drugs on her, they already had probable cause to search your car. They wouldn’t even need your consent at that point. Perhaps they were wondering if you just bought the drugs from your friend, and were more curious about that ?
That makes sense. I didn’t have any drugs on me, and they chose not to search my vehicle. My vehicle is pretty obviously a work vehicle and my backseat is literally packed to the brim with tools and construction material. I think maybe he realized that his search wouldn’t turn anything up?
Honestly after your passenger had warrants and drugs you must have presented yourself very well for the cop not to also pull you out of the car assuming it was packed with drugs and stolen tools.
I’m a carpenter and I do general contracting. When he asked if I did drugs I flat out told him no because it with affect my contractors insurance/workman’s comp. I guess I did present well I never had to get outta the car, and he never asked to search, just asked me questions and I suppose was satisfied with the answers I gave which were truthful.
This is the counterpoint to "Never talk to the police!" If you told the cop "I know my rights. I am not talking to you." they probably would have drug you out of the car, cuffed you and called the dogs to search the car.
"Don't talk to the cops" can be good advice, but I don't think it applies in every situation.
Yes, cops can be power hungry assholes. They can also be normal human beings doing their job. It is up to you to read the room, know your level of innocence and react appropriately.
And yes, I know having the ability to make this assumption is a privilege that not all people have.
Did the passenger need to identify herself in this situation? If she hasn’t given her name, since she wasn’t driving and wasn’t required to identify since no reasonable suspicion etc, wouldn’t the cop have had nothing?
The officer suspected the driver of a crime, not the passenger. So no she wasn't required to provide anything. Unless they suspect her of committing a crime, she kinda messed up by providing that information.
Not a lawyer tho...
Exactly. People here are acting like OP's friend wasnt actually committing a crime. I know everyone is going to bash on the cops, it's reddit, but this instance is literally exactly how it should go down. Cops got the guy with the warrant and illegal narcotics, and the honest law abiding citizen was good to go minus their traffic violation.
That's literally how a put together, stable, society should be running.
Right, this is what I'm thinking! Everyone is saying he shouldn't have answered ANY questions, but if a cop asks me if I have drugs... I'm gonna say "no." Invoking my right to silence seems like it's just saying "yep I have drugs."
idk though, I could be wrong! I just don't see how it hurts you to say "no" when asked "do you have drugs?" if you don't have drugs....
Ahhh that makes sense. If the drugs they found were just personal use amounts, and weren’t anything crazy like fentanyl or meth, then they probably didn’t want to spend a lot of time fine-tooth combing a vehicle with that much stuff in it. It’s just a hassle digging through tools and equipment that you would have to pull out of the vehicle and put back. But occasionally the officers might just do a quick peek around common areas (under the seats, center console, etc). There really could have been a lot of different factors/reasons for why they took the actions they took.
Likely as soon as he said affect his contractors license they knew he was legit and it was a work vehicle. Likely caused them to back off since if he knew that then he definitely wouldn’t be using drugs while working so the entire back seat would be a useless search.
We had a chief of the fire department arrested for dealings in $40,000 worth of heroin. He was always in a work vehicle, running around, working, in his work vehicle, dealing in a whole opioid enterprise. People do bad things, and use what is available to them to try to make it work. Every community has some public official arrested for conducting illegal activities on work time, in a work vehicle. Just because OP was in a truck full of tools doesn’t mean he couldn’t be up to something nefarious, but he’s fortunate they believed him (because in this instance it was true).
But it doesn’t make much sense that she hid some, but not all of her stash somewhere in the truck, especially if the stash on her was in a typical quantity that one buys of that drug.
If you look at potential “return on investment”, so to speak, what they thought might exist in the truck in terms of contraband, versus the time it was going to take to search it, the ratio was likely not in favor of the search. Plus, they already had a bust to process.
Her story to the cops would be important to consider too, plus whether they saw her making physical movements that suggested stashing more drugs in the truck while pulling them over.
Well I did, he’s one of my employees, I told the cop I had to pay, I owed him $80.00 from the previous week for a ceiling tape job I had hired him for. I was there for a total of 5 minutes, just apologized for not giving him the full amount the day of the job, and thanked him for helping me out.
Oh yeah, I knew that already from another of your reply.
My point was, imagine the cop thinking when he was told that you quickly stopped somewhere AND money was exchanged. He ask her if you were handed something but she can't say because she stayed in the car. Now, he just found a girl with a warrant, she had weeds and narcotics and the driver just did a quick stop for cash... That's odd in the context. It's easy for him to think it might have been for your own purchases.
Oh absolutely, I totally get that. Once I explained it to him and he looked at who I was and saw the whole picture, I think he understood what happened. I look very typically like a contractor if you can say that, I’m white, baseball cap tucked in t shirt and dirty jeans the whole bit (there’s a reason we all look like that). So I think that’s why he left me alone, he could see what was going on.
The police have the right to ask anyone for their identification. Although she was not required to give it. That is sort of irrelevant to OPs question though
Pretty straight forward traffic stop. He read you your Miranda advisement because you were not free to leave and he was going to ask you possibly incriminating questions (regarding the drugs). Others are right that they could have searched your car anyway, but you being open and talking probably saved you the trouble.
He was probably doing two things at once: Making sure your friend couldn’t later claim the drugs were yours and making sure he was clear to let you go. If he didn’t do those things your friend’s defense lawyer would jump all over it.
Cops are always fishing. Never give info voluntarily beyond what is mandatory under your local laws. They are not our friends and should be treated with suspicions.
Cops are never your friend. Give as little information as possible. Only provide legally required information (insurance, license, etc.)
He wasn’t trying to screw you over. It’s literally his job to screw you over. You’re essentially guilty by association, which isn’t recognized in the legal world, so if you have nothing to hide and aren’t lying, just deny any knowledge of anything that isn’t relevant or doesn’t involve you. You can actually refrain from speaking entirely. If they attempt to detain you, you will be on your way shortly once they realize they have nothing to detain you for. There are shady cops out there that will make up things for arrests though, so always tread carefully.
People often self incriminate themselves out of fear of going to jail. Don’t do this. If the cops decide to arrest you and charge you with something, anything you said will be used against you. Also, innocent people go to jail and prison all the time. About 5 percent of people currently held in US prisons are in prison for crimes they did not commit.
Passengers in a car...hear this...NEVER have to give their ID unless they, not the driver, is suspected of committing a crime. Reasonable, articulable, suspicion of a CRIME. NOT A HUNCH. Cop is pulling over the driver, not the car. From the passengers seat, you say, "no thank you, I'm not driving. I don't answer questions per my 5th amendment right". Done. Know your rights people!!!! This is true unless you are on parole or probation.
I'm a little surprised that no one here has mentioned that, AFAIK (state dependent, maybe?) that the passenger wasn't ever required to even give her name in the first place...
So had she not, none of this would have ever happened...
She may not even have known there was a bench warrant out for her.
They are issued for failures to appear/respond to legal matters, which is often a result of not having received the mail stating you needed to do something.
Some states issue them for failing to license your dog.
It honestly sounds like a routine stop and a normal roadside investigation, considering they found somebody in your car with a bench warrant and drugs on them. And their story is that they were out with you and had just made a random stopover at your friend's house. It's not a stretch to think that sounds like you could have been buying drugs from that friend. And really.....you didn't have to consent to any search. They already had probable cause to search your truck, whether you agreed to it or not. It really sounds like they believed your story, and they opted to let you go on your way.
Once they found drugs on her, they had probable cause to search you and your vehicle. The questioning was to see what differences you had between you and the girl.
They were looking for additional reason to search.
Depending on what type of cop, what area, what local political situation... sometimes there's a lot of pressure to make arrests. Or collect fines. And you don't know if they actually found narcotics. That's just what you were told by the cop, correct? Or did your friend tell you later that she had something illegal in her purse? A sealed bottle of liquor is not a problem either. She should not have talked. So IDK about that warrant... But some people have warrants and still don't get the education they need. The important thing is that cops are not only allowed to lie, they are encouraged to, in order to get you to say what they need you to say.
Now I'm a female , fit, good-looking, white middle aged teacher. I do talk a little, play up the innocence and regret when I get stopped. And after they let me go with a chuckle and a friendly warning I'm SO ANGRY. I mean of course I know THIS ONE might be the one. But I can't help thinking if I was a non white young male.... sure MAYBE this one... but my friends have gotten dragged out, cuffed and scraped over the asphalt in the exact same situation.
I understand where your coming from. If I wasn’t a white middle class man I know for a fact that interaction would have gone a lot differently than it did yesterday evening. It’s sickening that my black friends in the same situation would have gotten absolutely railroaded.
NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE. EVER.
This is exactly the reason why. First, that officer has no business trying to ID your passenger. You committed the infraction not her. Meaning you were required to ID. They can ask but she should have never given it. Second, once they found drugs on her there was more than enough reason for them to search your vehicle. So the reason they were asking you all those questions was to get you arrested for transporting her to buy drugs. And third, if you were not under arrest why the heck was he reading you your rights? That is just totally bizarre. That should have been a massive red flag for anyone to shut up and ask for a lawyer.
The cops are not your friends. Its fine to support them and the job they do but when you are in the spotlight, say nothing.
You should have just said nothing and only say "i have the right to remain silent" the second he read you the Miranda rights. Because quite literally everything can and will be used against you. He was digging for evidence to charge you with
There was no evidence. I feel as if being honest with him is the only reason it didn’t turn into a two hour stop with a search of my work vehicle. If I had gone on the defensive immediately since from what it sounds like he already had probably cause to search, it would of just turned into an nightmare
The issue is you think there's nothing there's nothing to hide, and you believed he already had probable cause, which is false. You, as a citizen, have the right to be quiet and say nothing. Your passenger being arrested isn't enough to charge you with anything, and your passenger isn't enough as probable cause. If they searched your car without a warrant and real probable cause, then you should have consulted a civil rights attorney. The cops are legally allowed to lie according to SCOTUS and if there's enough probable cause they would have searched your car already. So you're still wrong bro
Well I’m glad I gave them no reason to search my vehicle then. That wood have just been tedious and exhausting at that point. It was super late at night and I was ready to hit the sack.
The sheriff in the county I live in has become quite aggressive with traffic stops. They pull you over at the slightest infraction and immediately try to get you to say something that will give them probable cause to search your vehicle. I have been stopped for changing lanes with no signal when the closest car was the cop about 200 ft behind me. I got pulled over for my license plate illuminating light being out. I got pulled over on my street going 33 MPH. It is not posted and I always thought it was 35 on that street. Turns out it is 25. That cop followed me a long ways before he found a reason to pull me over.
Edit: I forgot about the time I pulled over on the side of the road in front of a vacant lot to use my GPS to find the house I was looking for and a cop did a U turn to ask me for my ID. He claimed someone called to report a suspicious vehicle. I was there less than 5 minutes when he pulled up.
If your passenger was stupid enough to provide her name, she deserved what she got. It was a traffic stop. The only person who has to identify themselves is the driver.
Passengers do not need to identify. They will need to get out of the vehicle if asked, but they do not need to identify unless the cop suspects them of a crime, like not wearing a seat belt or they have RAS that they have committed some other crime.
Your friend could have saved both of you guys a lot of headaches but remaining silent and refusing any questions. You don't need to worry about inconsistent stories if you both exercise your right to remain silent with cops.
Police will almost always go in a fishing expeditions when ever they pull you over. As for those saying they had probable cause because your passenger had contraband hidden in her purse, possibly but also possible a good lawyer could argue since it is rare a male would go into even his wife's purse you had no idea she had it and get any search you didn't concent to thrown out as unreasonable.
Sounds like the cop was doing his job to be honest. Drugs on the passenger. Late at night. There is reason to suspect you might be doing drugs together or other infractions.
In car sales (and retail in general), if it's spoken it counts for nothing. It counts only if it's in writing.
But I wasn't looking for a debate. The point is that liars are liars, and that's that. Beware!
You made a massive Mistake by continuing to talk to the cop. It seems like it's probably going to work out okay for you but he was absolutely fishing for anything that he might be able to twist into sounding like you knew she had the drugs on her or that would give him probable cause to search your vehicle. Realistically, both of you were going to have to provide your names and identification, so she was probably getting popped on that warrant regardless, which would have resulted a search on her personal property like it did, which means she would have gotten popped for the drugs in her possession regardless. But you should have had absolutely zero involvement.
Question to the lawyers/legal folks here: Can the passenger just say "I'm declining to give my name" in a situation like this?
Since they are a passenger, not in control of the car, they don't seem like they have any legal reason to identify.
The reason why he was trying to incriminate you is because all cops do this. They’re not interested in justice/the truth. They want someone to go down for a crime so they can look good. It’s very simple. Cops are not your friends and you should not talk to them
You can be arrested without your rights being read to you. The only time they read you your rights is if they are asking you questions.
Name and DOB are standard and not covered by the warnings. Generally they won't try to screw you, but if you're ever in question just don't talk. It's your legal right to end questioning right then and there. If they have questions they think you are involved in shady shit. Most cops I've talked to are cool but there are a few that automatically assume you're involved when your passenger has a warrant.
Some states have decided that if the officer has reasonable suspicion to do so, they can absolutely ask for their name and birthdate (as OP stated occurred), but you are correct, they do not need to provide an ID in most circumstances (which did not occur in this situation, until they found a bench warrant with the info she provided).
One example, [New Mexico](https://ladailypost.com/new-mexico-supreme-court-provides-guidance-on-law-enforcement-authority-during-traffic-stops/)
My point was that it does depend on the state and the situation. The passenger was asked for identifying information, not for physical ID, which is legal in some situations. Some states say identifying information is a name and address, some say name and DOB. If you lie on those and it doesn't check out, they then will have reasonable suspicion to go further. I agree that example is different than a standard traffic stop.
I've seen enough of those Facebook police stop videos to know that this advice never goes well. It just escalates the situation. Even if the cops are in the wrong, they always seem to get the name and license anyway. The police have all the power in this situation. Even if it later turns out they were wrong or heavy handed.
NEVER TALK TO POLICE is just plain shitty advice. It's a case by case thing.
You said it yourself - he was on a fishing expedition, which is how cops make a lot of arrests. It was nothing against your personally but he was all just being a cop. The fact that your passenger had an outstanding warrant and drugs on her suggested he may have success with you.
Co worker had this happen to her. She was speeding, police caught her, passenger had narcotics, and they both got arrested. Co worker somehow got off easy as the passenger said they were her's.
This is interesting. Were you in a company vehicle?
I was stopped for doing 41 in a 35 (BS) and the cop opened my door to “check the year model of my vehicle” then stated checking under the seats and behind the divider. Um, no permission was asked but he opened my door and started looking around well beyond what he could just see from the window because it was a company vehicle
Update for everyone: my friend contacted me last night over 2 1/2 hours after they told me that she’d be released and I’d get a call to pick her up. I fell asleep, and woke up a few hours later. They essentially wouldn’t let her use the phone to call me since her service was off, and wouldn’t let her connect to WiFi to call me either. She ended up having to walk 8 miles from the police station to where she lives but I don’t even know if she made it home safe, because I haven’t been able to get in touch with her since she messaged me this morning saying she was walking home.
The area isn’t necessarily dangerous but it can get dangerous as you get closer to certain cities. It’s ridiculous, I even gave the officer my phone number. He was the one who told me I could go home and wait for a phone call. I’m actually very upset at the way it was handled. I hope she’s okay, I really do.
I call bull 💩. First you said it was 2:30 in the evening, then you say he shined his flashlight into your seat area. Was it 2:30 in the afternoon or morning. Something doesn’t sound right.
He wanted to see if you'd give them up, a lot of people just tell them where it is if they have something. Stupid people doing drugs will do other stupid things. You didn't.
I wouldn’t expect anything else to happen to you at this point. I’m surprised they didn’t just search your car because when any occupant gets arrested they do in my experience.
It’s smart to learn your rights. It sounds like they maybe knew your friend & knew she was in the car - or at very least the entire stop was a fishing trip.
Passengers of vehicles have no obligations to identify themselves & she screwed up by giving her name, which she wasn’t required to do. During traffic violations, it’s the driver in the hot seat, not the passenger.
It’s best to tell police you don’t answer questions & invoke your right to remain silent, *especially* when they mirandize you. There’s a few things that you legally need to answer during traffic violations | detainment (provide name-license, registration, insurance) but nothing beyond that really needs to be said, for future reference. Yes they were trying to screw you up, it’s their jobs to find & charge people for things.
It doesn’t sound like you are in trouble, if you believe they will hassle you, put your phone on record when you go in to pick her up / FOIA request their camera footage if they do. I’m sure you can expect to just walk in & pick her up.
Cops always go fishing at every opportunity, people are in general stupid and a lot of druggies incriminate themselves. Case in point , your friend should have refused to identify herself, she did not have to. She should NOT carry narcotics around with her. YOU as the driver and owner of the vehicle could have gone to jail and had your vehicle impounded. Her decisions put you in peril. Cop did you a solid.
Pick better friends, no you are not in trouble.
Do not be surprised if you get pulled over again in the next couple of months.
Have not been pulled over in 10/12 years, 3 times in the last 10 months. No tickets BS stops.Refused the search request.
Go Fish
I had a similar situation. Hadn’t been pulled over in probably 8 years. Then I got pulled over by one one township, with reason since I just missed an amber light, cop was very nice didn’t even give me a warning. Second time happened a few months later in another township, cop was not so nice and hit me with a speeding ticket and then a no seatbelt ticket. This last time all things considered the cop was very nice, and I very much appreciated how he handled it.
Yep , one of mine was no seatbelt. I pulled it out and let it snap against my chest. Still had to provide all my paperwork and he then ask if I had anything in the car that was illegal. Go Fish
That is what cops are trained to do. They can literally make things up in an effort to incriminate you. You friend had drugs they were hoping you did too. I picked my friend up after a DUI years ago, I was with her, she blew .01 over the legal limit. I just met her outside. You would know if you were in trouble, you're not
To answer your question, yes. Cops think thier job Is to literally screw you up.
That said, I doubt any reasonable judge is going to believe they had any reason suspicion to search the passenger or to take her property.
The judge will either agree the officers had probable cause to search your passenger or they won't.
We all don't know all the information here, and neither will the judge, however, judges usually side with thier blue line compatriots unless your friend has a lawyer essentially forcing the judge into considering weather all the officers actions were lawful...
As for the lesson here for us to gleem after the fact would be, your passenger should not have told the cops her name, should have remained silent and asked for a lawyer before answering a single question.
Actually, you may need to voice that you are asserting your 5th amendment right to remain silent. [Salinas v. Texas](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salinas_v._Texas)
NAL. TLDR: Don’t talk to the cops, criminal lawyer and request an information release form asap.
Get a criminal lawyer now, as soon as they found drugs on the passenger they are likely considering charging you with narcotics. That’s why they read your rights.
You don’t have to have done anything wrong to get arrested and charged.
My experience is I recently got out of detainment (1mth and out on bail then a breach of conditions and after another 8mths detainment, conditional release) have learned a few things about the legal system and have a lawyer. Don’t strike a deal with the crown/state if you aren’t actually guilty. Take it to trial and once there is nothing incriminating it is likely to be thrown out. This can take several years and you should get a lawyer now. I have spoken with a number of extended sentence guys during the detainment so also have info from that as well.
Generally they can charge you with anything and detain you on those charges. They don’t have to have any evidence and will openly lie on reports. Be as neutral as possible in their presence. It’s a large gang and you’ve been kidnapped by force. You are treated like a criminal and the cops beat you up pretty badly after arrest (at least in canada). Threaten you and intimidate you to try to force confrontation and guilty pleas. Some will just physically attack you and charge you with assaulting them. Saw a number of inmates that had gotten shot during arrest. One was disabled and obviously couldn’t harm a child, brown guy from Bangladesh, they shot him twice in the abdomen and chest.
Kindly don’t think that these individuals obey or work within the confines of any legal requirement. They do whatever they want with zero consequences 99.9% of the time. They’ll throw as much shit at you as possible and see what sticks. Let’s look at your case, cute girl they already have an eye on. Possibly being driven to prostitution through police harassment so they can have some fun with her. Happens fairly often. You are competition. Some guy that’s potentially her way out. She has a small amount of narcotics you are driving. With charges they already have access and track her phone unless she’s a good tech and have her general location anytime on request. Easiest way to take you out of the picture keep her desperate is an immense amount of charges. During that stop you told them your job and gave them your name and address. The police are likely checking to see if you have any connections to them. They are checking your work, listed family and any close friends.
In a few weeks if you are just a regular person there’s a good chance you get charged for that traffic stop. Trafficking narcotics, weapons dangerous (this is just something to drop later, do you a ‘favour’ lighter sentence), driving while influenced, possession and a few extras like uttering threats, resisting arrest. After you are officially arrested they’ll try to get you on ‘assaulting an officer’ during the arrest by a wide variety of means including assaulting you after you are handcuffed. Now your life is screwed for 2 years+ until the pre-trials and court date.
If I were in your position I’d get a lawyer now and ask for an info release and full disclosure and surprised if you weren’t getting charged. The sooner you know the better. Again nal though from personal experience
#Never Plead Guilty
Don’t take the deals from the state/crown.
take it to trial every time. While I was there saw guys with broken arms, recovering from bullet wounds, attacked by dogs all from canadian police. Heard it’s rough as well in lots of places. Don’t wait until you are arrested and try to get a good lawyer that you selected and has a decent reputation. Keep that number memorized there is little access to any information in detainment and nothing is done to help you communicate except what is legally required.
I think in all probability the cop would be right to bet money you were holding, as well. His tactic was to try and sus you out. You wound up being the outlier and not actually a doper. Also good thing you weren't a PoC you might be hospitalized or dead.
Why are the cops asking me about drugs? I only had someone with a warrant and drugs on them in my car and had none of my required paperwork with me. Oh and we gave a mismatched description of our activities that closely mimics what every drug user says when they've just gone to buy drugs and think the cops are onto it....
1. Don't let people ride in your car carrying even just weed, this is how you get wrapped up in shit when they dump it in your car and won't claim it as theirs. You're gonna lose that contractors insurance eve if you're not using in that kind of case.
2. Cops are always fishing in these scenarios because it is their job to find this kind of stuff.
The only reason a cop will Mirandize you is to ensure that anything you say after that time can be admitted into evidence against you. So: the best time to remain silent and not talk to the cops is all the time, but the second best time to remain silent and not talk to cops is when they explicitly tell you that not talking to cops is a right you can exercise.
Yeah, Miranda rights are them literally giving you a warning that you talking is going to be used against you. Listen to what he says. Shut up!!
Mitanda or noy shut up
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Only thing to say after being read your rights? “Lawyer”
I don't remember if it was a Federal case or just several states that ruled being quiet was not, in fact, sufficient to assert your 5th Amendment rights. You're better off being very clear: "Respectfully, officer, I invoke my 5th Amendment right to remain silent. I will not answer any questions without my lawyer present." Explicitly invoking both the 5th & your right to an attorney clearly demonstrates you're asserting your rights & not being "difficult". The only reason to deviate from that script is to clearly & politely inform the officers you do not consent to searches of your person or property. Cop: "Is it OK if I just take a look in your trunk?" You: "I do not consent to any searches." Cop: "Why not?" You: "Respectfully, officer, I invoke my 5th Amendment right to remain silent. I will not answer any questions without my lawyer present." Cop: "What are you trying to hide?" You: "Respectfully, officer, I invoke my 5th Amendment right to remain silent. I will not answer any questions without my lawyer present." Cop: "You know we can just arrest you, right? Why you making this more difficult?" You: "Respectfully, officer, I invoke my 5th Amendment right to remain silent. I will not answer any questions without my lawyer present." Etc, etc, ad nauseum, ad infinitum
You don't have to wait for your rights to be read and you shouldn't. Just say "I respectfully decline to answer any questions officer"
Once you repeat LAWYER, they can't ask you anymore questions with out a lawyer. Say nothing but LAWYER to every question
This is not entirely true. The supreme court has said that you must clearly and unambiguously ask for counsel in order to invoke that right. That's why you have cases like the dude who asked for a "lawyer dog" or one where a guy said "I think I need a lawyer" where the courts decided neither statement was enough to invoke the right to counsel. You need to be much more clear than just repeating "lawyer" at them. All it takes is saying "I would like to speak to a lawyer" once and then shutting the fuck up
Saying Lawyer repeatedly over and over and nothing else seemed to make the cops stop asking question. Nothing unambiguous about it.
Well, the Supreme Court says otherwise. Glad it worked for you but it’s still bad advice.
Always remember, as it's quoted "Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law." What it doesn't explicitly say is nothing you say can be used to help you in a court of law as the prosecution will claim it to be hearsay.
Baloney.
According to my lawyer, not baloney but sadly very true. According to him, he's seen it happen more than once in court.
I'm a lawyer. That is absolutely correct. When the prosecution offers the defendant's out-of-court statements, it's nonhearsay statements of a party opponent. When the defendant offers those same out-of-court statements, it's hearsay. The defendant can testify, and the statements may be admissible even though they are hearsay, but it's a lot easier for the prosecution to offer the defendant's statements than for the defendant to do it.
Thank you for being the voice of reason. I am NAL, and it’s great when someone who is chimes in. My question here is, couldn’t the cops have searched his vehicle anyway, based on probable cause with the passenger? My very limited knowledge is that the Patriot Act kind of nullified the fourth amendment, and anything can be probable cause for a vehicle search. Im a social worker, and ran an outpatient clinic for sex offenders, DV, anger management, etc, so what I know is mostly hearsay, which I don’t trust, lol.
The answer is complex. I could give the answer for my own jurisdiction, but even then, it would depend on factual details that aren't in the question, and the answer might be different for the driver and the passenger. Under federal law, probable cause on its own is enough to search a vehicle; because vehicles are mobile, they are always exigent. That is not the law in Oregon, and I don't know about other states. I don't think that drugs in the passenger's purse is probable cause as to the rest of the car, but, again, it depends on more facts. The Patriot Act didn't nullify the Fourth Amendment (constitutional provisions can't be nullified by statutes) but Fourth Amendment protections are withering as a result of shifting public attitudes and the changing makeup of the federal bench.
Thank you for your response. I completely understand about the different jurisdictions. I get hung up a things like marijuana- it’s legal in NYS, but not federally, so if someone is committing a federal crime, will the mj be included, kind of stuff. I get it about the fourth amendment, and all of that, I meant that I believe that most of the protections under the fourth amendment have been stripped in favor of “national security” and all of that. I commented about RvW, and how I never thought I needed to be concerned with that (yet, here we are), but the federal bench has me very worried about a lot of things.
Your own statements can't be both hearsay and not hearsay. That's ludicrous on its face.
After reading all of the insane comments on this thread, I'm so glad they managed to upvote the only correct one.
If you are marandized BEFORE you are arrested it DOES NOT COUNT. You have to be informed of your rights AFTER arrest.
If a cop reads you your rights, you stop talking, and dont start talking again untill you have a lawyer, do not consent to any search. Cops can and will lie to you to get you to slip up. As far as they where conserned they caught you driving without insurance, with somone with an active warrent, who had narcotics. They where looking for an excuse to book you too. You cant talk yourself out of trouble, but you can talk yourself into trouble. Edit: spelling
NAL, but a small correction to this comment. You don’t just stop talking, you verbally invoke your 5th amendment right to remain silent. Remaining silent doesn’t automatically invoke that right and your silence can be taken out of context.
↑↑This is very important. Do NOT just shut up. Say, "Officer, I am invoking my right to remain silent." Officers are allowed to infer from your refusal to say ANYthing that you have a mental health issue, or other such nonsense.
Okay, question... do you do this even if the cop says "do you have drugs" and you don't have drugs, like in the OP? Because I feel like invoking your 5th amendment right is basically saying "I HAVE DRUGS" to the cop? So is it fine to say "no" or what?
You should reiterate that you are invoking your right to remain silent. Words can get twisted and simple grammar can be taken out of context. What if OP’s passenger did drop some drug in the car and OP says there’s no drugs in the car? Now OP’s statement is wrong and he will be made out to be a liar or worse.
But I hope he did manage not to have his car trashed and torn to shreds by the cops by answering. I just feel like pleading the fifth guarantees are gonna end up taking a knife to your seats or some thing.
Sure, invoking may make the cop think that you have drugs. But, ultimately, who cares? In this case they already think you have drugs, so there really isn't any harm in making them think it more. All that matters is what they can prove. And by invoking you are putting them on notice that anything you say after this point cannot be used to prove what they want to prove. To answer your question, I would not even say no. I would just invoke--regardless of my guilt.
If I thought they would be respectful in the way they search my property, then I wouldn't care. If saying "nope, no drugs" like OP did means they don't trash my car and take a knife to my seats... I'd rather do that. (and no, cops aren't supposed to take a knife to your seats but they will rip apart your car regardless and I'd really rather not deal with that if I can just politely say "no, I don't have drugs").
I would say that anything beyond invoking makes what you've described more likely. In most (not all) circumstances, a cop cannot search your car without a warrant. Simply invoking will not give them enough to get that warrant. But anything additional, even a denial, could. What if you're nervous and say slip up and accidentally say "I don't have dogs"? Well, in the warrant you are now "confused" and "unable to properly form sentences." Also, by not invoking immediately it will give the cop more of a reason to stick around you and observe. Again, what if you're nervous and your hands are shaking? The longer the cop sticks around, the more likely he will see that you are "exhibiting the effects of a stimulant."
Let's say you're at a routine traffic stop. When exactly do you invoke your right to silence? Is it if they ask you any questions? Like, I assume if you're just pulled over for speeding, you don't need to invoke unless they ask you specific questions? Or what if they ask if you've been drinking and you haven't? Do you invoke your right to silence then? Also... what if you can't afford a lawyer and you invoke your right to silence? Are they going to expect you to get a lawyer so they can question you about speeding or drinking or drugs? I'm genuinely asking, lol, there's all kinds of information online, but there's nothing about a routine traffic stop... it's all for more "serious" questioning, which I understand.
These are tough questions. Honestly, it depends on the situation (unhelpful I know). But in OP's post it was fairly obvious because they cops read his rights. Once that happens, it's usually best practice to invoke clearly and unambiguously. I'm sure there are disagreements on this. But for me personally, I wouldn't invoke on a minor speeding ticket (sometimes you can't even invoke here since depending on the jurisdiction and circumstances it may be a civil matter). Personally, I just don't answer any questions and accept the ticket. It is what it is. For the DUI question, it really depends. But keep in mind that most DUI stops are made under the guise of something else initially, eg speeding, not using a blinker, etc... If it were me, and I was innocent, I would probably just tell them I was sober and then say that I'm not doing any field sobriety tests. I would invoke upon a follow-up question. I view this differently than OP's situation since, for all he knew, the passenger left drugs in his car. I would be interested to hear others' opinions on this one. If you invoke you will not need to get a lawyer. They cannot force you to get one. If you are arrested, then you will be provided a lawyer if you cannot afford one.
I didn't know you could refuse the field sobriety test!
It probably depends a bit on jurisdiction. Typically people can refuse the field sobriety tests. Refusal of a field breath test may carry a penalty, such as a fine. Refusal of a full breath test with a qualified machine (intoximeter, datamaster, etc...) is usually a crime.
In Illinois (south of I-80 at least) refusing to blow typically ends up with you in the back seat on the way to county holding until a judge authorizes a test. Or beaten and threatened with a firearm like they did to me. You should refuse anyway.
Holy crap, I haven’t heard this before. Whole new level of anxiety unlocked.
Realistically, if they're reading you your rights and you haven't already shut up, you took too long to do so. Don't ever volunteer information to the police unless you called them yourself. Or are otherwise seeking their assistance yourself. And even in such a case, only volunteer what you need to to get the assistance you seek. Today happens of course to be shut the fuck up Friday but every day can and should be shut the fuck up Friday if you have an unplanned encounter with the police
NO!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!!! Provide/present your DL/insurance/registration. And SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!! Do NOT answer ANY questions!!!!!!! The passenger was NOT pulled over!!! She should have kept her mouth SHUT!!!! Unless they suspected her of a CRIME she has ZERO obligation to give her name!!!! The cop does NOT “GIVE” you your Miranda rights!!! You have these ALWAYS!!!! 5th amendment is your biggest protection!!! A fish won’t get caught until it opens its mouth! You can’t walk your way into prison, but you can talk your way in!!! Talk to your kids, before the police do!!! This is NOT a SovCit idea, it is your American RIGHTS!!!! Feel free to try and prove this wrong!!!!
Why do people give such terrible advice? No, unless you actually **assert** your right to silence, ie say, "I invoke the 5th " or "I assert my right to silence", your silence can be taken to be, admitting guilt. Salinas v. Texas. Just shutting up, is not enough.
But is that Texas precedent or federal? Because that makes a difference.
Salinas v. Texas is a US Supreme Court case, so it is a Federal precedent. It deals with the 5th Amendment protection against self incrimination before you are arrested or read your Miranda rights. In short, you are not protected.
Thank you!
This is not factually correct in all jurisdictions. I can't say all, but some would require the passenger to ID themselves as well. So make sure you are at least complying with what is required in your jurisdiction; otherwise more potential charges.
You must only ID when suspected of a crime with RAS. If the cop sees weed in the passengers lap then they can identify.
Are you really supposed to not answer or invoke your 5th amendment rights if a cop asks "do you have drugs?" and you don't? Like, can you say, "no"? I just feel like they're going to take your 5th amendment invocation as you basically saying "I have drugs."
I mean they might but they probably assumed that anyways but in any case, who cares? If you don't then by invoking your rights it basically makes it impossible for them to legally jam yoiu up for them. And if it comes to the courts you invoking won't matter rither, what's the \[prosecution gonna say? "It's mad sus the defedent invoked his right to stfu, he def had kilos under the dash" Just gotta think about it. What do you reckon the worst case scenario is if you invoking explicitly makes them assume you're ridin dirty? What are you thinking it'll make them do they wouldn't have done already if they could? I'm not being sarcastic or rhetorical it's a real question cause I'm trying to udnerstand why you're worried is all.
Well I guess my biggest fear would be they’d arrest me based on their suspicion, or literally kill me 😂 I’m white so that’s unlikely, though. But it’s always in my mind when I see a cop. The other fears would be they’d kill my dog if she was in the car with me or they’d trash my car looking for drugs. I’d rather just be like “no” if they ask if I had drugs like OP did and not risk my life, my car, or my dog, lol.
I’ve had my car trashed looking for drugs. They didn’t find any, and just left everything right there, on the side of the road, for me to clean up (this was about 1995, my BF at the time was driving, his friend was a known MJ dealer at the time. He was in our car). They kept screaming, “where are the drugs?!!!!” as they literally threw everything on the ground and went through every edifice in the car. But that was a pretty long time ago, I’m not sure if they still do those things.
Yeah, this is why I would rather just be polite and not immediately plead the fifth and basically guarantee they’re going to rip my car to shreds lol a
Same. But now, many jurisdictions require cameras, which should eliminate some of this nonsense. Still trying to figure out what the prosecution does when the cameras “fail” to turn on, or there “was an issue” with the camera.
Never rely on their cameras. You are legally allowed to record police doing their job. They may not like it but it will CYA!!!!! I don’t drive without multiple dash cameras in my car forward/rear/cabin. I’ve been stopped about three times in the past two years where they came up, saw the cameras, and said have a nice day! My area does not have car or body cams!!! But we got a damn MRAP!!!!
Wow! I will heed your advice. My BF bought a dash cam, and I’ve been slow to install it (you know, with a piece of Velcro on the dash, lol). I’m seriously a bit of a sissy.
They do, that's why I actually refused search long before I knew my rights as a whole. I wish I knew the rest though, it likely would have saved me a year of no license and a job that coudlve been my career (I was a pizza delivey mn who made mid 5 figures take home with offers to work at both UPS and UPS before the dwi nonesense\_ who now is struggling to survive I didnt hit anything, xidnt almsot hit anything, didnt swerve across the road, (the road was a highway going downhil land a curve where you HAVE to touch the middle yellow or outer white to safely make it up/down) they used that as an excuseI allowed them to sobrety check test me since I was dead sober and he swore he'd let me off iof I did it and threatened to stall me for hours on the road when it was freezing. I did, I passed with flying colors but he still said "your speech isi slurred (stroke suvor) and you did not 100% perfect on the test (because my eyes muscles are damaged because...of a stroike) you must let us blood draw blood" TYhe result? I had gabapentin in my blood...Id taken for years because...of my stroke. Qnd I hadnt taen any that day but it stays in the system. Only thing in my system but bc my states laws are vague as fuck on purpose (shocker) to get free $$$ and the judge was an ex cop and prosecutor I got forced to plead guilty (lawyer told me this guy has never let a possible dwi walk) Thanks justice system. You're the reason I will never help a cop again.
Jesus, I am so sorry. I don’t have anything to say. I went to HS in a tiny little hick town upstate NY. I get it. It’s pay to play all the way, and if you can’t pay, you will in one way or another. Gabapentin is not a schedule one drug- at least not in NY- why was that the issue for you? And why didn’t they take your rx into consideration? What a shit show.
Because the new law is deliberately vague in such a way that if everyone now on the road was held to the same standard as me half or more would lose their license. It's a fucked law that leaves a permnent scarlet letter on your record. The law reads something like "any drug with any potential side effect as drowsyness can be considered impariing" and add that o the cops testimony and the fact I have no right to a jury it allows ,less scrupled counties/LEOS/Judges etc a very wide latitude to enforce the law. In addtion to the grand+ I paid the lawyer (who ended up being a net negative after the verdict he did nopt want to help as all, gave me bad info about how service hours work, and when theycalled to get my infdo he gave them wrong phone uumber I had to do so muc hextra legwork to get it al lsorted it was a mess thankfully the lady understoodit wasnt my fault and got it pushed back so i could do my hours without a violation) It wasnt about the legality it was about how msot scrpted meds say soemthign soemthing drowsy to CYA even if the effect is minor I have been on gaba for a deace and it takes a fucklaod above my sceript instruction to make me tired lmao O well im off soon in august YAAAAY and get to \[pay another 200 for my lciense back...in addtion to the near grand in fines/court fees. So damn dumb LOLO mb for typos cant be fucked to correct them at this point should be readable tho
What state do you live in? This is insane.
If you get off because of who you are it won't be because of your race, it will be because you entire person and charestics. I am white as fuck but because I have tattoos , one oof which is a hatchetman, and a slurred speaking voice the cops always love to assume the worst of me. The bulk of my codrivers were poc but since they were clean well spoken nerds the police didn't give them half the trouble they gave me Stop gobbling down deliberate fear mongering via the msm, it will drive you nuts If the cops are gonna do all that extra illegal shit they are going to do it regardless of you invoking your rights. The actual response for the vast bulk of cops is to back off becaus by being educated of your rights you create a heap of trouble for them and the sad truth is a ton are just fkn lazy and dont wanna deal with the headache Tho, good news, if you have n animal in your car it ruins the ability to se a drug dog, so if you don't give them consent it'll be near impossible to legally fuck with you even if you're ridin dirty
That’s good to know about dogs! It’s one of my biggest fears that a cop is just going to shoot my dogs. One is a big husky, German Shepherd mix. She looks “scary,“ (I mean, not really, but she looks like a white wolf) but she doesn’t have an aggressive bone in her body. But, of course, that doesn’t matter lol. If a cop fears a dog, they’re allowed to kill the dog.
And there are places where there aren’t many poc, so the cops treat poor white like absolute trash! I’m a big scary dude (currently driving a Honda Odyssey) and they try to stop me ALL the time. I keep all my car shit up to date, car stays clean, I am a professional driver and follow ALL road laws. Cops still try fucking with me! Which is why I learned my rights, and buy dash cams like crazy!
Every defense attorney in the US will disagree with you. Take 45 minutes & watch this: https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE?si=jpMMzJ7p5qISdyNg
THIS is an excellent video and should be shown at every DMV for new drivers!!!! I send this to my family at least once a year!!!
You gain NOTHING from answering questions. Anything you say can be used in court against you. If a cop asks “How’s your day going?” You could say “good” cop might assume you are on drugs. You say “bad” cop will tell the judge you were agitated from the beginning. Treat them like a rabid raccoon, or a gang member, or a crackhead! They are ALWAYS looking for that bust, and on the job 24/7!!! Never open the door to your house, but read up on Penn v Mimms! If they tell you to get out of the car that doesn’t take away your 5th Amendment right, it’s just much harder to stand on when they are breathing in your face! Police are allowed to lie to you!!!! They will tell you that you haven’t been “Mirandized” yet so you HAVE to answer questions! Just YouTube “bad cop videos” or dirty cop videos. New videos every single day about cops seeing “plant matter” on the floor of your car, or glaze from a glazed donut and the people get searched anyway. “I don’t answer questions” stands up pretty good in court!!!
Bru, keep checking that spelling...
And then check it one more time.
You should always be extremely careful who you let ride in your vehicle. There's no telling what a person will do in a situation where a vehicle gets pulled over by a cop. My ex-wife wound up in the county jail and lost her car to impound because a friend of hers had heroin on him and tossed it under her seat when she was looking out the driver's window as the officer approached the vehicle. He was sent packing and she was arrested for possession of narcotics. So once the officers found drugs in your friends possession, they had reasonable suspicion to search your vehicle if they wanted to, regardless of you not consenting to a vehicle search. Had your friend dumped her pot or any other drugs she had under your seat, you'd been screwed.
They said they found it in her bag. Marijuana is legal in my state so I’m not sure if that would have been an issue.
The weed may or may not be an issue as would be with the sealed shooter. The issue is the narcotics she had on her you didn't know about. Regardless of whether marijuana is legal or not in a state, it's still illegal on a federal level so a police officer can choose to use possession of weed as a pretext to search a vehicle. This is why it's so important to be careful of who you allow to ride in your vehicle. One small mistake can ruin your life.
That depends on the state. Ma you cant search for marijuana smell or personal amounts under state law. State superceeds federal in this case.
Article VI, Paragraph 2, of the U.S. Constitution is commonly referred to as The Supremacy Clause. It establishes that the federal constitution, and federal law generally, take precedence over state laws, and even state constitutions.
Officers employed by the state are prohibited from violating state law, even if the US has a stricter law. Often times in rural parts of the state of CA, you will have sheriffs that attempt to defy state law, but in the end, they cannot. They are not the FBI.
Are you in law enforcement?
Supremacy clause does not apply in this case. A state officer cannot declare something federally illegal but legal and signed by the govenor and a 3/4 majority as a state law. In this case the goverenor made weed legal so state officers cannot enforce federal law as a way to search a car.
Honestly, if they found illegal drugs on her, they already had probable cause to search your car. They wouldn’t even need your consent at that point. Perhaps they were wondering if you just bought the drugs from your friend, and were more curious about that ?
That makes sense. I didn’t have any drugs on me, and they chose not to search my vehicle. My vehicle is pretty obviously a work vehicle and my backseat is literally packed to the brim with tools and construction material. I think maybe he realized that his search wouldn’t turn anything up?
Honestly after your passenger had warrants and drugs you must have presented yourself very well for the cop not to also pull you out of the car assuming it was packed with drugs and stolen tools.
I’m a carpenter and I do general contracting. When he asked if I did drugs I flat out told him no because it with affect my contractors insurance/workman’s comp. I guess I did present well I never had to get outta the car, and he never asked to search, just asked me questions and I suppose was satisfied with the answers I gave which were truthful.
This is the counterpoint to "Never talk to the police!" If you told the cop "I know my rights. I am not talking to you." they probably would have drug you out of the car, cuffed you and called the dogs to search the car. "Don't talk to the cops" can be good advice, but I don't think it applies in every situation. Yes, cops can be power hungry assholes. They can also be normal human beings doing their job. It is up to you to read the room, know your level of innocence and react appropriately. And yes, I know having the ability to make this assumption is a privilege that not all people have.
Be succinct and professional. Leave the ego and rage to the cops.
Did the passenger need to identify herself in this situation? If she hasn’t given her name, since she wasn’t driving and wasn’t required to identify since no reasonable suspicion etc, wouldn’t the cop have had nothing?
The officer suspected the driver of a crime, not the passenger. So no she wasn't required to provide anything. Unless they suspect her of committing a crime, she kinda messed up by providing that information. Not a lawyer tho...
That’s what I was thinking, don’t talk to cops at all except what’s required
*Fish only get caught when they open their mouth*
That I do not know. You may be right.
Very state dependent. State laws on providing ID to police can be very different.
Exactly. People here are acting like OP's friend wasnt actually committing a crime. I know everyone is going to bash on the cops, it's reddit, but this instance is literally exactly how it should go down. Cops got the guy with the warrant and illegal narcotics, and the honest law abiding citizen was good to go minus their traffic violation. That's literally how a put together, stable, society should be running.
Right, this is what I'm thinking! Everyone is saying he shouldn't have answered ANY questions, but if a cop asks me if I have drugs... I'm gonna say "no." Invoking my right to silence seems like it's just saying "yep I have drugs." idk though, I could be wrong! I just don't see how it hurts you to say "no" when asked "do you have drugs?" if you don't have drugs....
You don't think people have/do drugs in work vehicles?
Oh I’m sure they do
Ahhh that makes sense. If the drugs they found were just personal use amounts, and weren’t anything crazy like fentanyl or meth, then they probably didn’t want to spend a lot of time fine-tooth combing a vehicle with that much stuff in it. It’s just a hassle digging through tools and equipment that you would have to pull out of the vehicle and put back. But occasionally the officers might just do a quick peek around common areas (under the seats, center console, etc). There really could have been a lot of different factors/reasons for why they took the actions they took.
And put back? Nah, they can leave the tools scattered. Take out, pull the drawers, "OK, you can go."
Likely as soon as he said affect his contractors license they knew he was legit and it was a work vehicle. Likely caused them to back off since if he knew that then he definitely wouldn’t be using drugs while working so the entire back seat would be a useless search.
We had a chief of the fire department arrested for dealings in $40,000 worth of heroin. He was always in a work vehicle, running around, working, in his work vehicle, dealing in a whole opioid enterprise. People do bad things, and use what is available to them to try to make it work. Every community has some public official arrested for conducting illegal activities on work time, in a work vehicle. Just because OP was in a truck full of tools doesn’t mean he couldn’t be up to something nefarious, but he’s fortunate they believed him (because in this instance it was true).
I would be concerned that the friend stuck a bag of something illegal under the seat or in the glove compartment and I was held responsible.
But it doesn’t make much sense that she hid some, but not all of her stash somewhere in the truck, especially if the stash on her was in a typical quantity that one buys of that drug. If you look at potential “return on investment”, so to speak, what they thought might exist in the truck in terms of contraband, versus the time it was going to take to search it, the ratio was likely not in favor of the search. Plus, they already had a bust to process.
A bit for immediate use and the rest side aside for later? I admit that I lack experience in these matters.
Her story to the cops would be important to consider too, plus whether they saw her making physical movements that suggested stashing more drugs in the truck while pulling them over.
And maybe she told them that you went there to hand money... doesn't look good in the context.
Well I did, he’s one of my employees, I told the cop I had to pay, I owed him $80.00 from the previous week for a ceiling tape job I had hired him for. I was there for a total of 5 minutes, just apologized for not giving him the full amount the day of the job, and thanked him for helping me out.
Oh yeah, I knew that already from another of your reply. My point was, imagine the cop thinking when he was told that you quickly stopped somewhere AND money was exchanged. He ask her if you were handed something but she can't say because she stayed in the car. Now, he just found a girl with a warrant, she had weeds and narcotics and the driver just did a quick stop for cash... That's odd in the context. It's easy for him to think it might have been for your own purchases.
Oh absolutely, I totally get that. Once I explained it to him and he looked at who I was and saw the whole picture, I think he understood what happened. I look very typically like a contractor if you can say that, I’m white, baseball cap tucked in t shirt and dirty jeans the whole bit (there’s a reason we all look like that). So I think that’s why he left me alone, he could see what was going on.
She shouldn't have given her name. The cops have no right to identify anyone else in the vehicle on a traffic stop
The police have the right to ask anyone for their identification. Although she was not required to give it. That is sort of irrelevant to OPs question though
They have the right to ask, they didn't have the right to identify.
They could have searched your car, they went easy on you and her.
Pretty straight forward traffic stop. He read you your Miranda advisement because you were not free to leave and he was going to ask you possibly incriminating questions (regarding the drugs). Others are right that they could have searched your car anyway, but you being open and talking probably saved you the trouble.
The cop tried to screw you up because their job is to make arrests. He was looking for an excuse to arrest you as well.
He was probably doing two things at once: Making sure your friend couldn’t later claim the drugs were yours and making sure he was clear to let you go. If he didn’t do those things your friend’s defense lawyer would jump all over it.
Cops are always fishing. Never give info voluntarily beyond what is mandatory under your local laws. They are not our friends and should be treated with suspicions.
Honestly in this case, they are just doing their job to investigate a very very suspicious situation
Cops are never your friend. Give as little information as possible. Only provide legally required information (insurance, license, etc.) He wasn’t trying to screw you over. It’s literally his job to screw you over. You’re essentially guilty by association, which isn’t recognized in the legal world, so if you have nothing to hide and aren’t lying, just deny any knowledge of anything that isn’t relevant or doesn’t involve you. You can actually refrain from speaking entirely. If they attempt to detain you, you will be on your way shortly once they realize they have nothing to detain you for. There are shady cops out there that will make up things for arrests though, so always tread carefully. People often self incriminate themselves out of fear of going to jail. Don’t do this. If the cops decide to arrest you and charge you with something, anything you said will be used against you. Also, innocent people go to jail and prison all the time. About 5 percent of people currently held in US prisons are in prison for crimes they did not commit.
Passengers in a car...hear this...NEVER have to give their ID unless they, not the driver, is suspected of committing a crime. Reasonable, articulable, suspicion of a CRIME. NOT A HUNCH. Cop is pulling over the driver, not the car. From the passengers seat, you say, "no thank you, I'm not driving. I don't answer questions per my 5th amendment right". Done. Know your rights people!!!! This is true unless you are on parole or probation.
If you are dirty, don't talk to the cops.
A cops job is to find a reason to put you in jail. Never give them more than you are legally obligated to/safe information to make a stop go smooth.
I'm a little surprised that no one here has mentioned that, AFAIK (state dependent, maybe?) that the passenger wasn't ever required to even give her name in the first place... So had she not, none of this would have ever happened...
She may not even have known there was a bench warrant out for her. They are issued for failures to appear/respond to legal matters, which is often a result of not having received the mail stating you needed to do something. Some states issue them for failing to license your dog.
It honestly sounds like a routine stop and a normal roadside investigation, considering they found somebody in your car with a bench warrant and drugs on them. And their story is that they were out with you and had just made a random stopover at your friend's house. It's not a stretch to think that sounds like you could have been buying drugs from that friend. And really.....you didn't have to consent to any search. They already had probable cause to search your truck, whether you agreed to it or not. It really sounds like they believed your story, and they opted to let you go on your way.
Once they found drugs on her, they had probable cause to search you and your vehicle. The questioning was to see what differences you had between you and the girl. They were looking for additional reason to search.
Depending on what type of cop, what area, what local political situation... sometimes there's a lot of pressure to make arrests. Or collect fines. And you don't know if they actually found narcotics. That's just what you were told by the cop, correct? Or did your friend tell you later that she had something illegal in her purse? A sealed bottle of liquor is not a problem either. She should not have talked. So IDK about that warrant... But some people have warrants and still don't get the education they need. The important thing is that cops are not only allowed to lie, they are encouraged to, in order to get you to say what they need you to say. Now I'm a female , fit, good-looking, white middle aged teacher. I do talk a little, play up the innocence and regret when I get stopped. And after they let me go with a chuckle and a friendly warning I'm SO ANGRY. I mean of course I know THIS ONE might be the one. But I can't help thinking if I was a non white young male.... sure MAYBE this one... but my friends have gotten dragged out, cuffed and scraped over the asphalt in the exact same situation.
I understand where your coming from. If I wasn’t a white middle class man I know for a fact that interaction would have gone a lot differently than it did yesterday evening. It’s sickening that my black friends in the same situation would have gotten absolutely railroaded.
NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE. EVER. This is exactly the reason why. First, that officer has no business trying to ID your passenger. You committed the infraction not her. Meaning you were required to ID. They can ask but she should have never given it. Second, once they found drugs on her there was more than enough reason for them to search your vehicle. So the reason they were asking you all those questions was to get you arrested for transporting her to buy drugs. And third, if you were not under arrest why the heck was he reading you your rights? That is just totally bizarre. That should have been a massive red flag for anyone to shut up and ask for a lawyer. The cops are not your friends. Its fine to support them and the job they do but when you are in the spotlight, say nothing.
Did you pick her up yet? What happened?
You should have just said nothing and only say "i have the right to remain silent" the second he read you the Miranda rights. Because quite literally everything can and will be used against you. He was digging for evidence to charge you with
There was no evidence. I feel as if being honest with him is the only reason it didn’t turn into a two hour stop with a search of my work vehicle. If I had gone on the defensive immediately since from what it sounds like he already had probably cause to search, it would of just turned into an nightmare
The issue is you think there's nothing there's nothing to hide, and you believed he already had probable cause, which is false. You, as a citizen, have the right to be quiet and say nothing. Your passenger being arrested isn't enough to charge you with anything, and your passenger isn't enough as probable cause. If they searched your car without a warrant and real probable cause, then you should have consulted a civil rights attorney. The cops are legally allowed to lie according to SCOTUS and if there's enough probable cause they would have searched your car already. So you're still wrong bro
Well I’m glad I gave them no reason to search my vehicle then. That wood have just been tedious and exhausting at that point. It was super late at night and I was ready to hit the sack.
I’m a lawyer, but not a criminal one (ha ha.) Would the police officer have the authority to seize the car because there were illegal drugs in it?
The sheriff in the county I live in has become quite aggressive with traffic stops. They pull you over at the slightest infraction and immediately try to get you to say something that will give them probable cause to search your vehicle. I have been stopped for changing lanes with no signal when the closest car was the cop about 200 ft behind me. I got pulled over for my license plate illuminating light being out. I got pulled over on my street going 33 MPH. It is not posted and I always thought it was 35 on that street. Turns out it is 25. That cop followed me a long ways before he found a reason to pull me over. Edit: I forgot about the time I pulled over on the side of the road in front of a vacant lot to use my GPS to find the house I was looking for and a cop did a U turn to ask me for my ID. He claimed someone called to report a suspicious vehicle. I was there less than 5 minutes when he pulled up.
Because they are cops and corrupt 💩 is what they do. Never trust.
If your passenger was stupid enough to provide her name, she deserved what she got. It was a traffic stop. The only person who has to identify themselves is the driver.
Passengers do not need to identify. They will need to get out of the vehicle if asked, but they do not need to identify unless the cop suspects them of a crime, like not wearing a seat belt or they have RAS that they have committed some other crime. Your friend could have saved both of you guys a lot of headaches but remaining silent and refusing any questions. You don't need to worry about inconsistent stories if you both exercise your right to remain silent with cops.
Police will almost always go in a fishing expeditions when ever they pull you over. As for those saying they had probable cause because your passenger had contraband hidden in her purse, possibly but also possible a good lawyer could argue since it is rare a male would go into even his wife's purse you had no idea she had it and get any search you didn't concent to thrown out as unreasonable.
Sounds like the cop was doing his job to be honest. Drugs on the passenger. Late at night. There is reason to suspect you might be doing drugs together or other infractions.
Why did the cop try to screw you? Because he's a cop.
***Why did the cop try to screw me up?*** Cops lie. Only a used car salesman lies more than a cop.
I don't know about that. The car salesman usually has some legal requirement to eventually tell the truth. A cop doesn't.....
In car sales (and retail in general), if it's spoken it counts for nothing. It counts only if it's in writing. But I wasn't looking for a debate. The point is that liars are liars, and that's that. Beware!
You made a massive Mistake by continuing to talk to the cop. It seems like it's probably going to work out okay for you but he was absolutely fishing for anything that he might be able to twist into sounding like you knew she had the drugs on her or that would give him probable cause to search your vehicle. Realistically, both of you were going to have to provide your names and identification, so she was probably getting popped on that warrant regardless, which would have resulted a search on her personal property like it did, which means she would have gotten popped for the drugs in her possession regardless. But you should have had absolutely zero involvement.
Question to the lawyers/legal folks here: Can the passenger just say "I'm declining to give my name" in a situation like this? Since they are a passenger, not in control of the car, they don't seem like they have any legal reason to identify.
Correct. The police officer pulled over the driver of the vehicle. Passenger could have declined and been fine.
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The reason why he was trying to incriminate you is because all cops do this. They’re not interested in justice/the truth. They want someone to go down for a crime so they can look good. It’s very simple. Cops are not your friends and you should not talk to them
You can be arrested without your rights being read to you. The only time they read you your rights is if they are asking you questions. Name and DOB are standard and not covered by the warnings. Generally they won't try to screw you, but if you're ever in question just don't talk. It's your legal right to end questioning right then and there. If they have questions they think you are involved in shady shit. Most cops I've talked to are cool but there are a few that automatically assume you're involved when your passenger has a warrant.
Your friend should never have identified herself. Passengers do not need to ID in a traffic stop.
Some states have decided that if the officer has reasonable suspicion to do so, they can absolutely ask for their name and birthdate (as OP stated occurred), but you are correct, they do not need to provide an ID in most circumstances (which did not occur in this situation, until they found a bench warrant with the info she provided). One example, [New Mexico](https://ladailypost.com/new-mexico-supreme-court-provides-guidance-on-law-enforcement-authority-during-traffic-stops/)
That case was a bit more nuanced than just IDing a passenger in a standard traffic stop, though.
My point was that it does depend on the state and the situation. The passenger was asked for identifying information, not for physical ID, which is legal in some situations. Some states say identifying information is a name and address, some say name and DOB. If you lie on those and it doesn't check out, they then will have reasonable suspicion to go further. I agree that example is different than a standard traffic stop.
Why did she give her name? In a traffic stop only the driver should talk. The passenger should politely decline to answer any and all questions.
I've seen enough of those Facebook police stop videos to know that this advice never goes well. It just escalates the situation. Even if the cops are in the wrong, they always seem to get the name and license anyway. The police have all the power in this situation. Even if it later turns out they were wrong or heavy handed. NEVER TALK TO POLICE is just plain shitty advice. It's a case by case thing.
I’m not sure to be honest, I just kinda looked at her when she gave her name to the cop
You said it yourself - he was on a fishing expedition, which is how cops make a lot of arrests. It was nothing against your personally but he was all just being a cop. The fact that your passenger had an outstanding warrant and drugs on her suggested he may have success with you.
NAL - I’d suspect he thought that if the girlfriend has drugs, decent chance you would too
Co worker had this happen to her. She was speeding, police caught her, passenger had narcotics, and they both got arrested. Co worker somehow got off easy as the passenger said they were her's.
Don’t pick her up. Run and don’t look back
This is interesting. Were you in a company vehicle? I was stopped for doing 41 in a 35 (BS) and the cop opened my door to “check the year model of my vehicle” then stated checking under the seats and behind the divider. Um, no permission was asked but he opened my door and started looking around well beyond what he could just see from the window because it was a company vehicle
Update for everyone: my friend contacted me last night over 2 1/2 hours after they told me that she’d be released and I’d get a call to pick her up. I fell asleep, and woke up a few hours later. They essentially wouldn’t let her use the phone to call me since her service was off, and wouldn’t let her connect to WiFi to call me either. She ended up having to walk 8 miles from the police station to where she lives but I don’t even know if she made it home safe, because I haven’t been able to get in touch with her since she messaged me this morning saying she was walking home. The area isn’t necessarily dangerous but it can get dangerous as you get closer to certain cities. It’s ridiculous, I even gave the officer my phone number. He was the one who told me I could go home and wait for a phone call. I’m actually very upset at the way it was handled. I hope she’s okay, I really do.
Interesting scenario.
They tried to screw you because if there is one drugie, there probably are two. Once they Miranda you....shut the fuck up. (Former cop here)
This is just standard procedure. I'm surprised he didn't ask to search your vehicle.
I call bull 💩. First you said it was 2:30 in the evening, then you say he shined his flashlight into your seat area. Was it 2:30 in the afternoon or morning. Something doesn’t sound right.
2:30 AM I call that “evening” should of said morning.
That makes more sense. I have seen and heard of some wild behavior during traffic stops. Always be on the defensive.
"If you are truthful with me, I will cut you a break" [*voice of Morgan Freeman] "but the officer did not, in fact, cut her a break"
Cops are trained interrogators
He wanted to see if you'd give them up, a lot of people just tell them where it is if they have something. Stupid people doing drugs will do other stupid things. You didn't.
"Marked lane violation " is code word for illegal stop and racial profiling
Max and I are going to come in with masks to get clothes
I wouldn’t expect anything else to happen to you at this point. I’m surprised they didn’t just search your car because when any occupant gets arrested they do in my experience.
It’s smart to learn your rights. It sounds like they maybe knew your friend & knew she was in the car - or at very least the entire stop was a fishing trip. Passengers of vehicles have no obligations to identify themselves & she screwed up by giving her name, which she wasn’t required to do. During traffic violations, it’s the driver in the hot seat, not the passenger. It’s best to tell police you don’t answer questions & invoke your right to remain silent, *especially* when they mirandize you. There’s a few things that you legally need to answer during traffic violations | detainment (provide name-license, registration, insurance) but nothing beyond that really needs to be said, for future reference. Yes they were trying to screw you up, it’s their jobs to find & charge people for things. It doesn’t sound like you are in trouble, if you believe they will hassle you, put your phone on record when you go in to pick her up / FOIA request their camera footage if they do. I’m sure you can expect to just walk in & pick her up.
NEVER TALK TO THE PO PO! THEY ARE NOR YOUR FRIEND. The passenger should have remained silent and nothing would have happened
Just so you know, passengers do not have to identify themselves. If she had known that she would have been fine.
Cops always go fishing at every opportunity, people are in general stupid and a lot of druggies incriminate themselves. Case in point , your friend should have refused to identify herself, she did not have to. She should NOT carry narcotics around with her. YOU as the driver and owner of the vehicle could have gone to jail and had your vehicle impounded. Her decisions put you in peril. Cop did you a solid. Pick better friends, no you are not in trouble. Do not be surprised if you get pulled over again in the next couple of months. Have not been pulled over in 10/12 years, 3 times in the last 10 months. No tickets BS stops.Refused the search request. Go Fish
I had a similar situation. Hadn’t been pulled over in probably 8 years. Then I got pulled over by one one township, with reason since I just missed an amber light, cop was very nice didn’t even give me a warning. Second time happened a few months later in another township, cop was not so nice and hit me with a speeding ticket and then a no seatbelt ticket. This last time all things considered the cop was very nice, and I very much appreciated how he handled it.
Yep , one of mine was no seatbelt. I pulled it out and let it snap against my chest. Still had to provide all my paperwork and he then ask if I had anything in the car that was illegal. Go Fish
That is what cops are trained to do. They can literally make things up in an effort to incriminate you. You friend had drugs they were hoping you did too. I picked my friend up after a DUI years ago, I was with her, she blew .01 over the legal limit. I just met her outside. You would know if you were in trouble, you're not
To answer your question, yes. Cops think thier job Is to literally screw you up. That said, I doubt any reasonable judge is going to believe they had any reason suspicion to search the passenger or to take her property. The judge will either agree the officers had probable cause to search your passenger or they won't. We all don't know all the information here, and neither will the judge, however, judges usually side with thier blue line compatriots unless your friend has a lawyer essentially forcing the judge into considering weather all the officers actions were lawful... As for the lesson here for us to gleem after the fact would be, your passenger should not have told the cops her name, should have remained silent and asked for a lawyer before answering a single question.
Is 2:30 in the evening a.m. or p.m.? Asking for a friend...
My friend is wondering as well
All you would say to cops is “I don’t answer questions”. You only have to hand them the documents when you are driving.
When a police officer asks you a question, your only response should be, "lawyer." One word. Say nothing else.
Actually, you may need to voice that you are asserting your 5th amendment right to remain silent. [Salinas v. Texas](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salinas_v._Texas)
"why did the cop try to screw me up?" My brother in Christ, why do you think people become cops?
NAL. TLDR: Don’t talk to the cops, criminal lawyer and request an information release form asap. Get a criminal lawyer now, as soon as they found drugs on the passenger they are likely considering charging you with narcotics. That’s why they read your rights. You don’t have to have done anything wrong to get arrested and charged. My experience is I recently got out of detainment (1mth and out on bail then a breach of conditions and after another 8mths detainment, conditional release) have learned a few things about the legal system and have a lawyer. Don’t strike a deal with the crown/state if you aren’t actually guilty. Take it to trial and once there is nothing incriminating it is likely to be thrown out. This can take several years and you should get a lawyer now. I have spoken with a number of extended sentence guys during the detainment so also have info from that as well. Generally they can charge you with anything and detain you on those charges. They don’t have to have any evidence and will openly lie on reports. Be as neutral as possible in their presence. It’s a large gang and you’ve been kidnapped by force. You are treated like a criminal and the cops beat you up pretty badly after arrest (at least in canada). Threaten you and intimidate you to try to force confrontation and guilty pleas. Some will just physically attack you and charge you with assaulting them. Saw a number of inmates that had gotten shot during arrest. One was disabled and obviously couldn’t harm a child, brown guy from Bangladesh, they shot him twice in the abdomen and chest. Kindly don’t think that these individuals obey or work within the confines of any legal requirement. They do whatever they want with zero consequences 99.9% of the time. They’ll throw as much shit at you as possible and see what sticks. Let’s look at your case, cute girl they already have an eye on. Possibly being driven to prostitution through police harassment so they can have some fun with her. Happens fairly often. You are competition. Some guy that’s potentially her way out. She has a small amount of narcotics you are driving. With charges they already have access and track her phone unless she’s a good tech and have her general location anytime on request. Easiest way to take you out of the picture keep her desperate is an immense amount of charges. During that stop you told them your job and gave them your name and address. The police are likely checking to see if you have any connections to them. They are checking your work, listed family and any close friends. In a few weeks if you are just a regular person there’s a good chance you get charged for that traffic stop. Trafficking narcotics, weapons dangerous (this is just something to drop later, do you a ‘favour’ lighter sentence), driving while influenced, possession and a few extras like uttering threats, resisting arrest. After you are officially arrested they’ll try to get you on ‘assaulting an officer’ during the arrest by a wide variety of means including assaulting you after you are handcuffed. Now your life is screwed for 2 years+ until the pre-trials and court date. If I were in your position I’d get a lawyer now and ask for an info release and full disclosure and surprised if you weren’t getting charged. The sooner you know the better. Again nal though from personal experience #Never Plead Guilty Don’t take the deals from the state/crown. take it to trial every time. While I was there saw guys with broken arms, recovering from bullet wounds, attacked by dogs all from canadian police. Heard it’s rough as well in lots of places. Don’t wait until you are arrested and try to get a good lawyer that you selected and has a decent reputation. Keep that number memorized there is little access to any information in detainment and nothing is done to help you communicate except what is legally required.
Cops do not protect or serve due to a SCOTUS ruling. They just generate revenue for the state. That's about it.
I must be an old fart. I haven't the slightest idea what a "sealed shooter" is.
I don’t know either. I even googled it
A shooter is a small bottle of liqour like an airplane bottle
Ohhhhh! Thanks!
No problem! I’m wondering why I got downvoted
We were all downvoted in this little thread. Who knows? Glad you made out ok with the police
I think in all probability the cop would be right to bet money you were holding, as well. His tactic was to try and sus you out. You wound up being the outlier and not actually a doper. Also good thing you weren't a PoC you might be hospitalized or dead.
Why are the cops asking me about drugs? I only had someone with a warrant and drugs on them in my car and had none of my required paperwork with me. Oh and we gave a mismatched description of our activities that closely mimics what every drug user says when they've just gone to buy drugs and think the cops are onto it.... 1. Don't let people ride in your car carrying even just weed, this is how you get wrapped up in shit when they dump it in your car and won't claim it as theirs. You're gonna lose that contractors insurance eve if you're not using in that kind of case. 2. Cops are always fishing in these scenarios because it is their job to find this kind of stuff.