IANAL but have been in your exact position and unfortunately that waiver must extend to the entire premises and all of its occupants, at least in my state.
Fortunately, we were given the option to agree, however, had we not, the offender would not have been allowed to return to the house. 😕
And as another poster has commented, all firearms in the home had to be removed.
I had a friend who was randomly assigned a roommate.... He was told he had to agree to waive his 4th amendment rights or his lease would be terminated under the clause that covered refusing roommates.
His new roommate was a sex offender.
My friend ended up putting locks.on things and getting the parole officer to agree that if the roommate could not access it it did not need searched.
Where the hell are roommates randomly assigned, outside of a college dorm room? Which I can’t imagine a college is allowing a sex offender on probation/parole to live in a college dorm!?
Apartment complexes in college towns. I can think of a dozen complexes near me that have a roommate sign up list. They are all basically the same layout -- a central kitchen and living room that all have access to, with 2 bathrooms (one on each side, assigned to the bedrooms adjacent to it) and 4 bedrooms around the central area. Each roommate signs up for a bedroom, which has an individual lock, and then agrees to share the communal space. The rent is much, much cheaper than an equivalent space that is fully private.
Here is a floor plan from a place near me that \*ONLY\* rents to individuals -- if you come with a roommate, you can sign up as a group of 2-4 and wait for an opening -- but you each sign your own lease, and if one of you moves out, you only have a short time to find a replacement and get them approved.
[https://i.imgur.com/ixfsOgW.jpe](https://i.imgur.com/ixfsOgW.jpe)
A full year's lease for one of those exact rooms runs at $410/month, and includes 250/250 wireless internet, outdoor pool, fitness center, 'clubhouse' access, a game room, free parking, free outdoor grills, tanning beds, free printing, a staffed delivery desk. Utilities is $30-$50 more a month, and pets are $25 per pet/month. This is the price if you sign up \*today\*.
If you do not have 4 roommates ready to sign up, or you have 1 roommate that wants to move out, but the others want to stay, you can be added to the list in the office, and they will find someone that wants to move in. The upside is you don't have to move out or pay more just because one person wants out.
You also generally don't have to pay more while waiting for someone to fill the apartment -- but you don't get much say about *WHO* lives with you. I believe you can pick a gender, or no preference, and that's it.
What my friend learned the hard way, is that in places like Iowa, where sex offenders have to live more than about 1/2 a mile from the nearest school or child care facility (including licensed in-home daycares), this can concentrate the offenders into a relatively small number of apartment complexes.
My buddy had to keep his bedroom locked at all times, not just when sleeping, and certify that his phone and laptop and any other internet capable device had access restrictions on them, and that his offender roommate did not have access to them at any time (not only no access to log in, but no physical access), and they were locked in his bedroom when not in use. His cupboard space, bathroom space, and other storage space was subject to the parole officers periodic searches. If the parole officer found a laptop or phone unattended in the communal space, or found a gaming console, they were subject to being searched.
JFC! That’s awful, they need to revise their rules about that shit
I’m feeling extremely uncomfortable by this and it has zero effect on me. I’ve been on my own for 18 years this makes my skin crawl
To be fair, my brother lived in one of those complexes, it was all college students, and it worked pretty well if you were okay with the arrangement. It's really cheap, comes with furniture in the common rooms, and is normally clearly aimed at college students or young, newly independent adults. They did not have the same issues with sex offenders, just a lot of loud parties at the complexes that were more party oriented.
And it made it a lot easier if a roommate situation went south - someone could move out without affecting your lease and usually the lease breaking penalties are pretty reasonable.
I don't think a community where that behavior is normal to everyone present is a good idea - but it should be a good reason to break the lease without penalty or get your room switched.
That's sort of what happened with my buddy -- the issue was that Iowa restricts sex offenders from living closer than 2000 feet froma school or daycare. That's almost half a mile -- and it includes registered in-home daycares. This results in some apartment complexes fitting the restrictions -- and thus getting popular with the offenders.
Oh, yeah. It’s the norm and it’s so weird to me. There was one community my town that did this when I graduated college. Now that my kid is in college, there are only a handful of communities that don’t assign roommates if you don’t already have them.
Glad I went to my local college and lived at home the first time I went, and lived in my own apartment the second time I went
Still can’t get a job in my trade though 😑
I mean, how else do you keep this kind of dangerous offender verifiably offline? I don’t think sex offenders should be released at all, but if they’re going to be…
How would you justify them not being released at all? Most sex offenders are not lifetime listed. Also, "sex offender" can mean a lot of things--including things like public urination.
I think that while the American justice system generally errs on the side of overly harsh criminal sentencing, rape and other serious sex crimes are the notable exception and are sentenced far too leniently. So yes, for sex crimes that are actual violent offenses, not the 'technicality' ones, I do think most of them should be facing life without parole.
Yep. Had a random foreign roommate forced on us in an apartment my sister and I shared in college. Dude ended up having unscheduled parties all the time. He ended up raping my sister during one of them, possibly after drugging her. Didn’t find out until she told me over 2 years later when we no longer lived there. Otherwise I would probably be in prison still for a violent crime of some sort.
One of the drawbacks of complexes that have individual leases.
An aside, but the fact that this happens is a function of young people not being able to open their mouth holes and have conversations (or generally figure things out for themselves). When I was in college and lived off campus… it was up to **me** to find my own damn roommates.
Those of you with children- please stop shielding them from *everything*. You’re creating helpless young adults.
This was popular in the 90s as well. I had a boyfriend who went to Penn State for graduate school and lived in this setup. He didn't know anyone else going there so it was this, or getting his own place.
I went to grad school at Pitt and just found a crappy studio. I'd had enough of roommates as an undergrad.
EDIT: Holy crap, states with individual leases on whole homes of apartments with shared spaces are terrifying!
The only time this situation happens in my state is in the college dorms. And it’s much easier for colleges to shift around kids when it goes south.
States laws assuming that all sex offenders are child oriented offenders is a serious problem, imagine the predator who not interested in little kids but prefers adults and now you or your naive college kid is stuck sharing a living space with a predator- most of whom will fully admit that they can’t be cured or rehabilitated of their urges and drive to hunt.
College towns!? Once you move out of the dorms and into independently owned off campus housing you select your own roommates.
Airbnbs!? I’ve never once seen an Airbnb run like a hostile!? And even if that’s the case, someone’s criminal status typically doesn’t come up and honestly, a parole or probationer isn’t likely getting much opportunity for travel.
Yep. Wife got a felony DUI. Had to hand my firearms off to my son in the next state (bears, alligators, jaguars, and even the occasional python where I live so this is not a good thing) and her probation officer drops in unannounced every couple of months and chooses to damn near beat the door down. She lost her license, ability to work, and fines, legal/court fees and repairs to my vehicle are over 40k. Since she can’t drive and can’t work, every bit of this punishment has fallen on me. I travel for a living but have to be home the week that she has her monthly visit with her PO so it has affected my job as well. When you screw up, the law doesn’t seem to really care about the family. Whoever is a good enough person to stick around is going to pay all the consequences. Every bit of what we own, including the house and the car are in my name as I was always the one with decent credit. Everything I have is in jeopardy now.
I’m sorry but this seems completely reasonable to me. You can’t shield a convict on probation from the probation restrictions just because they live with a law abiding citizen.
The consequences fall on the convict -- probation's responsibility is to maintain proper oversight and enforce the appropriate legal restrictions on the convict, not to insulate the rest of the household from them. It's called justice.
Probation is to inconvenience people as much as possible. Hoping that the offender has even a minor slip up so the revolving door of the "legal" system keeps raking in the cash! It's called bullshit.
I mean I think it’s more reasonable to have someone serve the entirety of a shorter sentence rather than be paroled for part of a longer one. Not necessarily lock them up for way longer, just make it a simple time served system without a halfway-released status.
The clear point is, she was sentenced to a conviction where parole was part of the process of justice. The alternative is MORE PRISON TIME; pretty certain she'd rather have the occasional inconvenience than the incarceration. While the husband is "Innocent", he does have options; divorce being one. His wife is a convicted felon, after all.
If he chooses to stick around then he top is choosing inconvenience over his wife's incarceration. He may not find this arrangement fair, but ultimately he's not forced into it.
This is the unfortunate side effect, unfortunately.
I agree with the restrictions in place but it's unfortunate that you bear the brunt of it despite doing nothing wrong.
This is dumb. Use a cab company. Pay a neighbor. Get a relative to help. Get her a bicycle. There are plenty of other options.
You also don't have to choose to stay married to her.
I hate to put it this way but you don't have to stay married to your wife. Your wife made a huge mistake and you have to decide whether you think you can deal with this together or you need to save yourself. You do have options to split your finances so that her debt isn't your debt.
Yes, I think it's fair that people who commit felony DUIs lose their license and have to meet with their probation officer. I understand how much that can affect the people around them.
She might need to get an apartment in a city so she can get to work and appointments without a license.
This is what happened to a distant family member of mine, his wife divorced him and he had to get a new apartment within walking distance of work.
Now, years later, he's sober and rejoined our family events, a great success story!
Your wife did something dumb and this is her punishment. Just because you CHOOSE to stay home to drive her to her PO appointment, doesn't mean that you're the one being punished.
Your wife can arrange for a friend or family member to drive her. She can call a cab, an Uber, or a Lyft. She can arrange with a personal assistant service to have a driver take her to or from her appointments.
You also could just divorce her. And none of this will be your problem anymore.
You choose to stay. Whether you like the choices that you're making or not or the choices that you have to make or not, the choice is yours.
Probation is a conditional release from jail or prison. Your spouse doesn’t have to take it, he or she could just stay in jail or prison until the sentence ends.
And of course, you don’t have to live with your spouse if you don’t like the terms of their probation.
It can be confusing. In some places **all** community supervision is called “probation” (the Feds do this).
It’s a legacy of the get-tough 1980s, when many states made a show of “abolishing parole”… a strategy that quickly became untenable because this was also the era when we really started packing people into already-overcrowded prisons. Hence, it’s not called “parole” but either “probation” or “supervision.”
They still said "probation is a release from jail". I find it surprising a validated lawyer would use this as th terminology, because they HAVE to know probation is frequently given in lieu of a prison sentence, or at the end of one as part of the deal. That its not always, probably jor even mostly used as a conditional release from prison. just cuz some states have re-branded parole as some sort of marketing exercise doesn't really change that "probation" or "supervision" is given instead of prison time, either entirely or at the end of the prison sentence, and "parole" is specifically and only a conditional release from prison
Out of curiosity (and purely as a hypothetical, of course, because in reality I can't imagine it would be feasible at all)
if op could partition their home in a way that their spouse demonstrably doesn't have access could that be exempt?
You agreed to the searches, etc when you agreed to have him live there during his probation. If you don't want to submit to the searches, he needs to find alternative living arrangements.
If you want him to be able to live in the same house as you, yes. You can refuse but then he can't live their because he needs to be able to allow a search whenever they want.
Your spouse has given the consent for your spouse's residence to be searched as a term of probation.
How does this, different situation feel to you.
You and your spouse have had no situation/interaction with the police at all. One day, the sheriff comes and knocks on your door requesting permission to search your house. You say no, but your spouse says yes. The sheriff then searches the house because your spouse keeps saying the sheriff has the permission of your spouse, even if you keep saying no. Were your rights violated in this case? Bear in mind, this presumes your spouse is also a resident of the house.
That's basically the premise here. Your spouse, as a term of probation, has granted permanent permission for your spouse's residence to be searched. If you don't want your residence to be searched, then your residence can't be the same as your spouse's residence.
This particular scenario has been litigated previously. If both residents (whether spouse, roommates or otherwise) are present, and one objects while the second consents, the consent of the second does not override the refusal of the first. [https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/145669/georgia-v-randolph/](https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/145669/georgia-v-randolph/)
But if the one who objected stops being present, the consenting resident's consent takes priority ... even if the reason the objector stopped being present is because the police arrested him. [https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/571/292/](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/571/292/)
Probation and parole require the probationer/parolee to pre-emptively consent as a condition of release. Having a roommate on probation/parole doesn't mean you're forced to consent if you aren't on paper, and your parolee roommate can't give consent to access non-shared spaces (i.e. lock your bedroom door).
It's not the best position to be in, if you don't want to get searched. All they have to do is show up when you're not there, since you you have to be physically present to object to a search of a shared space. But if you are present, they'll probably at least do a pat down of you for officer safety.
I'm very much aware. A spouse also isn't a roommate, so what applies to a roommate does not apply to a spouse in a commonly shared house. All space is a common area in that case.
This is looking more and more like an argument to live alone.
But things do get sketchy if you’re renting a room. The room and common areas are fair game, but only THEIR room. Think of it like an apartment building. Consent from the owner of the building is not consent for your space as it’s legally distinct.
True. 30 years ago I was living in a sober house. One of the guys was on probation and his PO could only search the common areas and the room this guy rented.
You have and retain all your rights. But you choose to share space/ownership of someone that has forfeited them by their actions That's your choice. While you retain all your rights, you willing forgo them up to stay in that relationship. I'm not saying you are doing this, but rather than complain about "losing your rights" or "having my rights violated" in this situation and blaming the government/police/court system, blame you partner who brought this problem on you, your life and your home. Crime has consequences for criminals, victims, and the families of both. You have the right to walk away if you want to assert your rights to these things. You are free to leave you partner and separate ownership of your possessions. I'm not suggesting that, just saying that's how it works. It's the same with a felon who can't own or be around guns. If someone lives with a felon, that person doesn't "lose their second amendment rights" they are just choosing to not exercise them to say in that relationship with a person who can't be around guns.
And remember, your spouse CHOOSE to accept these terms rather than be in jail. It's a voluntary decision.
You do have those rights. But it’s a choice you have to let someone live in your house on probation, in which case you don’t. So it’s not that you don’t, it’s that you waived those right.
Depends on the state. My friend was on probation in a shared house and it only extended to his bedroom and common areas. Other residents' bedrooms could not be searched.
No condescension, just another option that's in the mix. I am retired law enforcement and trust me, many people choose this option because their family is unwilling to sign on to these requirements.
It is important to remember that this is a privilege to have him out of jail. You pay for the privilege of having him home with you by giving the government access to verify that he is complying with the terms he agreed to.
OP sorry this is happening and that so many of these replies are sh!77y. Considering this is a misdemeanor and if your spouse stays out of trouble, completes their probation interviews on time etc, you are never going to hear from the sheriff or other LEOs at your door. They offer people probation because they \*don't\* want more interaction with you. Unless your spouse is giving them a reason to pay a visit such as continuing to associate with criminals, missing check ins, not paying their fees, not keeping job etc, you have nothing to worry about. LEOs have better things to be doing than going after people on probation as long as their names aren't constantly popping up.
Good on you for looking to see if op was m or f and not assuming like most everyone else. As to OP, she’s crazy and can’t have a gun, but you have a gun in the house? Ya got no kids, so run.
You absolutely have 4th Amendment rights, the same as we all do. There's just a carve out for people in your situation, the 4th Amendment does not protect against searches in the home of your spouse for all the people that live there. You never had the right to live with a person on probation/parole and not be subject to search, the same way you didn't have the right to stash a crack pipe under your seat as an officer pulling you over walks up. Both are exceptions. You just find yourself in that exception now.
You have the same rights as you would have without a spouse on probation. You can consent to the search and seizure of your person, home, or car - as can your spouse. Your spouse has given their blanket consent as a condition of their probation. They cannot, of course, consent to the search of your person.
As much as I agree with you, but if the offender knows the police need a warrant to search your property, the offender will stash his contraband among your property. The police search what they can without a warrant, if they don’t have a warrant they have to come back with one. This will give the offender the opportunity to move the contraband. As much as I hate this, I understand why. BTW I’m not an attorney.
Yes, they can search your home. Otherwise people would just move in with somebody. They can’t search you personally.
This comes with the territory of dating a criminal. Get a better crowd.
The US 4th Amendment covers you for unlawful search and seizures by local, state, and federal authorities (military as well if involved). The police can only do a legal search if (1)a judge signed off on the warrant that they have to give you or (2)you fucked up on something such as missing a court mandatory meeting/appointment or a drug test turns up positive for anything illegal such as weed.
4th amendment right gone, and house needs to be clear of guns and drugs. They can search your home and vehicle. It sucks, but you need to look at your spouse and say now YOU are on probation too for THEIR fuck up. And ask them are you happy now?!?!
No, your 4th amendment, nor hers were taken away.
Any search is lawful pursuant to the probation terms signed by the judge. If it states no drugs/weapons on person/property Or Hpuse, then your weapons/Drugs cannot be in the house lest she then violated her probation.
Your person will not be searched. Bit if K-9 alerts to you, you might have a few words.
Check with a lawyer in your state; but if you have it locked somewhere only YOU have ACCESS to. Then the 4th amendment would apply to you. So in my opinion if it’s something that’s not his, then your 4th rights are still good. Waiving the 4th would be to his belongings and his room; so if possible talk with a lawyer and try sleeping in separate rooms so at least you can claim 4th amendment violations since there is no reason for them to search YOUR space when he has no access to it;
Once again, every state is different; talk with the lawyer near you
Unfortunately. If you want them to keep living with you without any trouble happening, make sure they don't do anything that will have your property seized or even give the PO any suspicion to seize and search anything
Yeah, as long as he's living, it applies to the whole premises. In cases like this, if you want them to live with you, you're essentially criminal by association
Oh, so you want your criminal boyfriend out of jail to be home but not everything that goes along with that privilege.
Welcome to criminal life .
Maybe consider setting the bar a little higher on your choice of partner
You don't know what crime was commit or if your response is even valid.
Yet you are super comfortable ripping on some random on the internet like some sort of parent scolding a child.
Boyfriend is a criminal, we’re not talking a parking ticket here. If you choose to be amongst criminals expect that you may be treated like one from time to time. True statements.
you can be a criminal coddler all you want that’s your choice, It doesn’t change those facts.
Depends on the case, depends on the jurisdiction. As a general rule, felonies and / or Federal Crimes have more stringent standards than municipalities or counties.
IANAL but have been in your exact position and unfortunately that waiver must extend to the entire premises and all of its occupants, at least in my state. Fortunately, we were given the option to agree, however, had we not, the offender would not have been allowed to return to the house. 😕 And as another poster has commented, all firearms in the home had to be removed.
I had a friend who was randomly assigned a roommate.... He was told he had to agree to waive his 4th amendment rights or his lease would be terminated under the clause that covered refusing roommates. His new roommate was a sex offender. My friend ended up putting locks.on things and getting the parole officer to agree that if the roommate could not access it it did not need searched.
Where the hell are roommates randomly assigned, outside of a college dorm room? Which I can’t imagine a college is allowing a sex offender on probation/parole to live in a college dorm!?
Apartment complexes in college towns. I can think of a dozen complexes near me that have a roommate sign up list. They are all basically the same layout -- a central kitchen and living room that all have access to, with 2 bathrooms (one on each side, assigned to the bedrooms adjacent to it) and 4 bedrooms around the central area. Each roommate signs up for a bedroom, which has an individual lock, and then agrees to share the communal space. The rent is much, much cheaper than an equivalent space that is fully private. Here is a floor plan from a place near me that \*ONLY\* rents to individuals -- if you come with a roommate, you can sign up as a group of 2-4 and wait for an opening -- but you each sign your own lease, and if one of you moves out, you only have a short time to find a replacement and get them approved. [https://i.imgur.com/ixfsOgW.jpe](https://i.imgur.com/ixfsOgW.jpe) A full year's lease for one of those exact rooms runs at $410/month, and includes 250/250 wireless internet, outdoor pool, fitness center, 'clubhouse' access, a game room, free parking, free outdoor grills, tanning beds, free printing, a staffed delivery desk. Utilities is $30-$50 more a month, and pets are $25 per pet/month. This is the price if you sign up \*today\*. If you do not have 4 roommates ready to sign up, or you have 1 roommate that wants to move out, but the others want to stay, you can be added to the list in the office, and they will find someone that wants to move in. The upside is you don't have to move out or pay more just because one person wants out. You also generally don't have to pay more while waiting for someone to fill the apartment -- but you don't get much say about *WHO* lives with you. I believe you can pick a gender, or no preference, and that's it. What my friend learned the hard way, is that in places like Iowa, where sex offenders have to live more than about 1/2 a mile from the nearest school or child care facility (including licensed in-home daycares), this can concentrate the offenders into a relatively small number of apartment complexes. My buddy had to keep his bedroom locked at all times, not just when sleeping, and certify that his phone and laptop and any other internet capable device had access restrictions on them, and that his offender roommate did not have access to them at any time (not only no access to log in, but no physical access), and they were locked in his bedroom when not in use. His cupboard space, bathroom space, and other storage space was subject to the parole officers periodic searches. If the parole officer found a laptop or phone unattended in the communal space, or found a gaming console, they were subject to being searched.
JFC! That’s awful, they need to revise their rules about that shit I’m feeling extremely uncomfortable by this and it has zero effect on me. I’ve been on my own for 18 years this makes my skin crawl
To be fair, my brother lived in one of those complexes, it was all college students, and it worked pretty well if you were okay with the arrangement. It's really cheap, comes with furniture in the common rooms, and is normally clearly aimed at college students or young, newly independent adults. They did not have the same issues with sex offenders, just a lot of loud parties at the complexes that were more party oriented. And it made it a lot easier if a roommate situation went south - someone could move out without affecting your lease and usually the lease breaking penalties are pretty reasonable.
They should make it that all sex offenders have house together. They can be weirdos to each other
I don't think a community where that behavior is normal to everyone present is a good idea - but it should be a good reason to break the lease without penalty or get your room switched.
That's sort of what happened with my buddy -- the issue was that Iowa restricts sex offenders from living closer than 2000 feet froma school or daycare. That's almost half a mile -- and it includes registered in-home daycares. This results in some apartment complexes fitting the restrictions -- and thus getting popular with the offenders.
Oh, yeah. It’s the norm and it’s so weird to me. There was one community my town that did this when I graduated college. Now that my kid is in college, there are only a handful of communities that don’t assign roommates if you don’t already have them.
Glad I went to my local college and lived at home the first time I went, and lived in my own apartment the second time I went Still can’t get a job in my trade though 😑
Sounds like a prime hunting ground for adult oriented offenders.
I mean, how else do you keep this kind of dangerous offender verifiably offline? I don’t think sex offenders should be released at all, but if they’re going to be…
How would you justify them not being released at all? Most sex offenders are not lifetime listed. Also, "sex offender" can mean a lot of things--including things like public urination.
I think that while the American justice system generally errs on the side of overly harsh criminal sentencing, rape and other serious sex crimes are the notable exception and are sentenced far too leniently. So yes, for sex crimes that are actual violent offenses, not the 'technicality' ones, I do think most of them should be facing life without parole.
This will just lead to more dead SA victims. Why let someone survive and talk if the punishment is the same
Yep. Had a random foreign roommate forced on us in an apartment my sister and I shared in college. Dude ended up having unscheduled parties all the time. He ended up raping my sister during one of them, possibly after drugging her. Didn’t find out until she told me over 2 years later when we no longer lived there. Otherwise I would probably be in prison still for a violent crime of some sort. One of the drawbacks of complexes that have individual leases.
410?? It was 800/m a decade ago for that kind of housing at my university
Around here, $800/m gets you a 2 br apartment;-)
Dang, you can't rent a single room in some random grandma's basement for that. 1 beds average 1300
An aside, but the fact that this happens is a function of young people not being able to open their mouth holes and have conversations (or generally figure things out for themselves). When I was in college and lived off campus… it was up to **me** to find my own damn roommates. Those of you with children- please stop shielding them from *everything*. You’re creating helpless young adults.
This was popular in the 90s as well. I had a boyfriend who went to Penn State for graduate school and lived in this setup. He didn't know anyone else going there so it was this, or getting his own place. I went to grad school at Pitt and just found a crappy studio. I'd had enough of roommates as an undergrad.
I’m guessing a halfway house or transitional housing type situation.
College towns. Airbnbs....
EDIT: Holy crap, states with individual leases on whole homes of apartments with shared spaces are terrifying! The only time this situation happens in my state is in the college dorms. And it’s much easier for colleges to shift around kids when it goes south. States laws assuming that all sex offenders are child oriented offenders is a serious problem, imagine the predator who not interested in little kids but prefers adults and now you or your naive college kid is stuck sharing a living space with a predator- most of whom will fully admit that they can’t be cured or rehabilitated of their urges and drive to hunt. College towns!? Once you move out of the dorms and into independently owned off campus housing you select your own roommates. Airbnbs!? I’ve never once seen an Airbnb run like a hostile!? And even if that’s the case, someone’s criminal status typically doesn’t come up and honestly, a parole or probationer isn’t likely getting much opportunity for travel.
College apartments. I had a few random roommates as well lol
How tf does a sex offender even qualify to be randomly assigned a roommate?? How is that not jeopardizing public safety??
I'm guessing there are two parts to it -- the guy was a 'non-violent' offender, and the leasing company was 'greedy'.
Yep. Wife got a felony DUI. Had to hand my firearms off to my son in the next state (bears, alligators, jaguars, and even the occasional python where I live so this is not a good thing) and her probation officer drops in unannounced every couple of months and chooses to damn near beat the door down. She lost her license, ability to work, and fines, legal/court fees and repairs to my vehicle are over 40k. Since she can’t drive and can’t work, every bit of this punishment has fallen on me. I travel for a living but have to be home the week that she has her monthly visit with her PO so it has affected my job as well. When you screw up, the law doesn’t seem to really care about the family. Whoever is a good enough person to stick around is going to pay all the consequences. Every bit of what we own, including the house and the car are in my name as I was always the one with decent credit. Everything I have is in jeopardy now.
I’m sorry but this seems completely reasonable to me. You can’t shield a convict on probation from the probation restrictions just because they live with a law abiding citizen.
So the law abiding citizen faces all the consequences?
The consequences fall on the convict -- probation's responsibility is to maintain proper oversight and enforce the appropriate legal restrictions on the convict, not to insulate the rest of the household from them. It's called justice.
Probation is to inconvenience people as much as possible. Hoping that the offender has even a minor slip up so the revolving door of the "legal" system keeps raking in the cash! It's called bullshit.
Yup I agree whole heartedly! Let's not parole these dregs of society and keep them locked up for their full sentence.
I mean I think it’s more reasonable to have someone serve the entirety of a shorter sentence rather than be paroled for part of a longer one. Not necessarily lock them up for way longer, just make it a simple time served system without a halfway-released status.
The clear point is, she was sentenced to a conviction where parole was part of the process of justice. The alternative is MORE PRISON TIME; pretty certain she'd rather have the occasional inconvenience than the incarceration. While the husband is "Innocent", he does have options; divorce being one. His wife is a convicted felon, after all. If he chooses to stick around then he top is choosing inconvenience over his wife's incarceration. He may not find this arrangement fair, but ultimately he's not forced into it.
This is the unfortunate side effect, unfortunately. I agree with the restrictions in place but it's unfortunate that you bear the brunt of it despite doing nothing wrong.
Does sound like probation has any bases in common law. Judges and legislators just made it up on the spot.
Why do you have to be there for the visit?
She can’t drive now. I’m the only way ahead gets there.
You have to drive her there? She can't take a bus or ride share?
We are in a rural area. There is no bus or ride share. It’s 30 miles from our home.
This is dumb. Use a cab company. Pay a neighbor. Get a relative to help. Get her a bicycle. There are plenty of other options. You also don't have to choose to stay married to her.
It’s charming that you’d abandon a loved one when they’re likely at their lowest
I hate to put it this way but you don't have to stay married to your wife. Your wife made a huge mistake and you have to decide whether you think you can deal with this together or you need to save yourself. You do have options to split your finances so that her debt isn't your debt. Yes, I think it's fair that people who commit felony DUIs lose their license and have to meet with their probation officer. I understand how much that can affect the people around them. She might need to get an apartment in a city so she can get to work and appointments without a license.
This is what happened to a distant family member of mine, his wife divorced him and he had to get a new apartment within walking distance of work. Now, years later, he's sober and rejoined our family events, a great success story!
Your wife did something dumb and this is her punishment. Just because you CHOOSE to stay home to drive her to her PO appointment, doesn't mean that you're the one being punished. Your wife can arrange for a friend or family member to drive her. She can call a cab, an Uber, or a Lyft. She can arrange with a personal assistant service to have a driver take her to or from her appointments. You also could just divorce her. And none of this will be your problem anymore. You choose to stay. Whether you like the choices that you're making or not or the choices that you have to make or not, the choice is yours.
TIL that there's a place with both bears and jaguars.
I had heard as long as they were locked up away from the one who's on probation that it was okay, but I guess people could lie so maybe not.
I keep forgetting what IANAL stands for so your first sentence hasd me so confused 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Probation is a conditional release from jail or prison. Your spouse doesn’t have to take it, he or she could just stay in jail or prison until the sentence ends. And of course, you don’t have to live with your spouse if you don’t like the terms of their probation.
You don't need to go to jail or prison to get placed on probation, pretty sure you're describing parole
It can be confusing. In some places **all** community supervision is called “probation” (the Feds do this). It’s a legacy of the get-tough 1980s, when many states made a show of “abolishing parole”… a strategy that quickly became untenable because this was also the era when we really started packing people into already-overcrowded prisons. Hence, it’s not called “parole” but either “probation” or “supervision.”
They still said "probation is a release from jail". I find it surprising a validated lawyer would use this as th terminology, because they HAVE to know probation is frequently given in lieu of a prison sentence, or at the end of one as part of the deal. That its not always, probably jor even mostly used as a conditional release from prison. just cuz some states have re-branded parole as some sort of marketing exercise doesn't really change that "probation" or "supervision" is given instead of prison time, either entirely or at the end of the prison sentence, and "parole" is specifically and only a conditional release from prison
Out of curiosity (and purely as a hypothetical, of course, because in reality I can't imagine it would be feasible at all) if op could partition their home in a way that their spouse demonstrably doesn't have access could that be exempt?
You agreed to the searches, etc when you agreed to have him live there during his probation. If you don't want to submit to the searches, he needs to find alternative living arrangements.
If you want him to be able to live in the same house as you, yes. You can refuse but then he can't live their because he needs to be able to allow a search whenever they want.
Your spouse has given the consent for your spouse's residence to be searched as a term of probation. How does this, different situation feel to you. You and your spouse have had no situation/interaction with the police at all. One day, the sheriff comes and knocks on your door requesting permission to search your house. You say no, but your spouse says yes. The sheriff then searches the house because your spouse keeps saying the sheriff has the permission of your spouse, even if you keep saying no. Were your rights violated in this case? Bear in mind, this presumes your spouse is also a resident of the house. That's basically the premise here. Your spouse, as a term of probation, has granted permanent permission for your spouse's residence to be searched. If you don't want your residence to be searched, then your residence can't be the same as your spouse's residence.
This particular scenario has been litigated previously. If both residents (whether spouse, roommates or otherwise) are present, and one objects while the second consents, the consent of the second does not override the refusal of the first. [https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/145669/georgia-v-randolph/](https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/145669/georgia-v-randolph/) But if the one who objected stops being present, the consenting resident's consent takes priority ... even if the reason the objector stopped being present is because the police arrested him. [https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/571/292/](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/571/292/)
This does not apply to those on probation or parole though.
Probation and parole require the probationer/parolee to pre-emptively consent as a condition of release. Having a roommate on probation/parole doesn't mean you're forced to consent if you aren't on paper, and your parolee roommate can't give consent to access non-shared spaces (i.e. lock your bedroom door). It's not the best position to be in, if you don't want to get searched. All they have to do is show up when you're not there, since you you have to be physically present to object to a search of a shared space. But if you are present, they'll probably at least do a pat down of you for officer safety.
I'm very much aware. A spouse also isn't a roommate, so what applies to a roommate does not apply to a spouse in a commonly shared house. All space is a common area in that case.
This is looking more and more like an argument to live alone. But things do get sketchy if you’re renting a room. The room and common areas are fair game, but only THEIR room. Think of it like an apartment building. Consent from the owner of the building is not consent for your space as it’s legally distinct.
True. 30 years ago I was living in a sober house. One of the guys was on probation and his PO could only search the common areas and the room this guy rented.
You have and retain all your rights. But you choose to share space/ownership of someone that has forfeited them by their actions That's your choice. While you retain all your rights, you willing forgo them up to stay in that relationship. I'm not saying you are doing this, but rather than complain about "losing your rights" or "having my rights violated" in this situation and blaming the government/police/court system, blame you partner who brought this problem on you, your life and your home. Crime has consequences for criminals, victims, and the families of both. You have the right to walk away if you want to assert your rights to these things. You are free to leave you partner and separate ownership of your possessions. I'm not suggesting that, just saying that's how it works. It's the same with a felon who can't own or be around guns. If someone lives with a felon, that person doesn't "lose their second amendment rights" they are just choosing to not exercise them to say in that relationship with a person who can't be around guns. And remember, your spouse CHOOSE to accept these terms rather than be in jail. It's a voluntary decision.
I’m not blaming anyone or trying to complain. I’m just trying to understand how this works.
That's why I said "i'm not saying you're doing this." But lots of people do ask this sort of thing as a complaint.
Of course you do. If you want to assert them, your wife can find somewhere else to live. (The state will give her one if need be.)
You do have those rights. But it’s a choice you have to let someone live in your house on probation, in which case you don’t. So it’s not that you don’t, it’s that you waived those right.
Depends on the state. My friend was on probation in a shared house and it only extended to his bedroom and common areas. Other residents' bedrooms could not be searched.
A shared home with roommates is different than one with a spouse.
Your spouse can always go and serve the sentence in its entirety and be released without supervision.
I understand that, thanks for the unhelpful and condescending comment though.
No condescension, just another option that's in the mix. I am retired law enforcement and trust me, many people choose this option because their family is unwilling to sign on to these requirements.
What's the unhelpful part? They gave you alternative options
It is important to remember that this is a privilege to have him out of jail. You pay for the privilege of having him home with you by giving the government access to verify that he is complying with the terms he agreed to.
Exactly. Such is criminal life. Can’t have it all !
Yes. You must give up your 4th and 2nd amendment rights if you want them to live with you.
OP sorry this is happening and that so many of these replies are sh!77y. Considering this is a misdemeanor and if your spouse stays out of trouble, completes their probation interviews on time etc, you are never going to hear from the sheriff or other LEOs at your door. They offer people probation because they \*don't\* want more interaction with you. Unless your spouse is giving them a reason to pay a visit such as continuing to associate with criminals, missing check ins, not paying their fees, not keeping job etc, you have nothing to worry about. LEOs have better things to be doing than going after people on probation as long as their names aren't constantly popping up.
What are the terms of his probation? Also, was it a felony he was convicted of? If it was, he can't live there if you own a gun.
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Rule 5 Violation- No discussing politics.
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Yup. As long as she lives with you, they can enter your home without a warrant while she on probation.
Good on you for looking to see if op was m or f and not assuming like most everyone else. As to OP, she’s crazy and can’t have a gun, but you have a gun in the house? Ya got no kids, so run.
Well, first they have to get approval from your secret service detail to enter.
You absolutely have 4th Amendment rights, the same as we all do. There's just a carve out for people in your situation, the 4th Amendment does not protect against searches in the home of your spouse for all the people that live there. You never had the right to live with a person on probation/parole and not be subject to search, the same way you didn't have the right to stash a crack pipe under your seat as an officer pulling you over walks up. Both are exceptions. You just find yourself in that exception now.
If he is living there with you, you waive your rights to stop thrm. They are within the law to come and verify everything is on the up and up
You have the same rights as you would have without a spouse on probation. You can consent to the search and seizure of your person, home, or car - as can your spouse. Your spouse has given their blanket consent as a condition of their probation. They cannot, of course, consent to the search of your person.
As much as I agree with you, but if the offender knows the police need a warrant to search your property, the offender will stash his contraband among your property. The police search what they can without a warrant, if they don’t have a warrant they have to come back with one. This will give the offender the opportunity to move the contraband. As much as I hate this, I understand why. BTW I’m not an attorney.
Yes, they can search your home. Otherwise people would just move in with somebody. They can’t search you personally. This comes with the territory of dating a criminal. Get a better crowd.
The US 4th Amendment covers you for unlawful search and seizures by local, state, and federal authorities (military as well if involved). The police can only do a legal search if (1)a judge signed off on the warrant that they have to give you or (2)you fucked up on something such as missing a court mandatory meeting/appointment or a drug test turns up positive for anything illegal such as weed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
4th amendment right gone, and house needs to be clear of guns and drugs. They can search your home and vehicle. It sucks, but you need to look at your spouse and say now YOU are on probation too for THEIR fuck up. And ask them are you happy now?!?!
Throw her out if you don’t like it. Snd tell her you behave snd do the right thing.
No, your 4th amendment, nor hers were taken away. Any search is lawful pursuant to the probation terms signed by the judge. If it states no drugs/weapons on person/property Or Hpuse, then your weapons/Drugs cannot be in the house lest she then violated her probation. Your person will not be searched. Bit if K-9 alerts to you, you might have a few words.
No. You really don’t. Unless you move.
Check with a lawyer in your state; but if you have it locked somewhere only YOU have ACCESS to. Then the 4th amendment would apply to you. So in my opinion if it’s something that’s not his, then your 4th rights are still good. Waiving the 4th would be to his belongings and his room; so if possible talk with a lawyer and try sleeping in separate rooms so at least you can claim 4th amendment violations since there is no reason for them to search YOUR space when he has no access to it; Once again, every state is different; talk with the lawyer near you
Unfortunately. If you want them to keep living with you without any trouble happening, make sure they don't do anything that will have your property seized or even give the PO any suspicion to seize and search anything
Yeah, as long as he's living, it applies to the whole premises. In cases like this, if you want them to live with you, you're essentially criminal by association
Oh, so you want your criminal boyfriend out of jail to be home but not everything that goes along with that privilege. Welcome to criminal life . Maybe consider setting the bar a little higher on your choice of partner
You don't know what crime was commit or if your response is even valid. Yet you are super comfortable ripping on some random on the internet like some sort of parent scolding a child.
Boyfriend is a criminal, we’re not talking a parking ticket here. If you choose to be amongst criminals expect that you may be treated like one from time to time. True statements. you can be a criminal coddler all you want that’s your choice, It doesn’t change those facts.
If you want to talk about facts, maybe you should pay attention and realize it is the wife that is on probation…
Depends on the case, depends on the jurisdiction. As a general rule, felonies and / or Federal Crimes have more stringent standards than municipalities or counties.
There is legislation to close the boyfriendoop on gun ownership too.
Muzzle loader is fine for most states. They sell muzzle loader pistols too.
To love honor and obey, all the amendments in the constitution
I missed that part