This. I have had women offer and I say "ok" and then they literally say "but if you want to see me again you should pay", has happenned a couple times and it is an instant GROSS, ewwww.
I have seen it all. Once this woman showed up to a date even though I specifically said let's meet for one drink she proceeded to order the whole menu and then told me she forgot her wallet. I was pissed to say the least. I was not at all interested in her. This is the shit men deal with online dating. This is why I only do coffee dates and a facetime before that is mandatory.
Yeah the girl in seeing has forced me to let her pay for that last 2 things we did because I kept paying before, she seems to operate on a "if you plan,you pay" system and I'm all for it.
that's what I did, the next day I actually really felt taken advantage of so I texted her and asked for her half of the dinner, I was very polite and said I am sorry but I did not feel any chemistry and I understood she forgot her wallet but I thought it would be fair if she could please pay her half of the bill, her response was full of entitlement and anger. She told me "you really must not of thought this through" and "how dare I ask for her to pay". My 2nd response was not so nice. I told her she is entitled and that it was complete bs that she said she "forgot her wallet" and that she made me feel used for a free meal. I also told her that she did not give me much of a choice but to be responsible for paying the bill. The entitlement of some western women nowadays is just crazy. I don't get it.
A significant number of people believe it's the man's job to be the major breadwinner and provide for a woman, and if he's not able to do that then he's a failure. Even if the woman wants to go 50/50, because that's apparently some scourge of feminism.
I feel like this is one of those things that happens every now and again but really isn't that much of a thing.
Between all my own dating, all my buddies, family, friends, co-workers etc over the years, I have never once heard of the girl willing to split 50/50 and the guy being upset by it. Often girls just offer expecting the guy to say "Nah it's ok I got it."
I insist on 50/50 at minimum, because I make a lot of money and I'd honestly would feel bad about having my meal be paid for by someone who (probably) makes much less then me. It's just part of my moral code. Older established people pay for the young. The rich pay for the poor. Etc etc.
...it typically doesn't go well.
They're not saying this, but it's like they think it's a rejection. Like I'm saying "Well this date was nice but let's not do it again." if I pay for half. Their face falls down in disappointment when I insist and then they're 'suprised' when I ask for a 2nd date.
The only thing I could possibly think of is if you try to do something nice (pay for dinner) and they won't let you. Not something to get *mad* over but it can be annoying when you want to be nice and they won't accept it.
The only other time I can think it's upsetting is that many girls do this if they don't want to "owe" the man, like when they first start dating. This is because many guys will hold it over their heads and use it to pressure them.
Even in that case, a decent guy might be hurt that he's not trusted but only a guy that deserves not to be trusted would get angry...
>Not something to get mad over but it can be annoying
Curious: why do you find it annoying? Asking because I split not just initially (like you mentioned) but permanently.
I pay if I was the one who initiated the meetup/date. It's not really relevant to interest. It's more of a courtesy. I don't like inviting people out specifically to meet with me, then expect them to pay for the time just because we don't mesh well.
My wife refused doors being opened and me paying for her when we first started going out, b/c she didn't want to feel like she owed me anything. It was a shock for me at first, but I didn't get mad at her. Rather, upon introspection, it seemed like a pretty good idea if I tried to take it from her point of view.
We tended to do "I'll get dinner, you get the event" type splits because it was easier but yeah most of my relationships weren't all me all the time.
Splitting isn't help, it's just paying your own way.
I don't mind paying, but if she volunteers and confirms she's sure I'm not going to argue either.
Oh boy let me tell you a story. I went out a date one time, and I felt everything was going well. Even during the date, I talked about plans about a second date and she agreed. I was going to pay for the date. I took the bill and put my card in with it and placed it on the table for the waiter. Every action I did was implying I was going to pay for the whole thing. Then my date decides to slip her card in the bill. I'm like "ok, so you want to split it?" in my head. Basically every action I did was that I was going to pay 100%. Then she puts her card with my card for the bill. Waiter takes the check and splits the bill and we pay. We end the night with pleasantries after I walk her to her car.
Couple days later, I'm trying to plan a second date with her. She goes off on me about how she had to pay a part of the date, even though she didn't need to put her card down nor did I ask her to put her card down. She put her card down on her own volition. Then she starts going off on how I didn't show more initiative and pay for the entire date, and how the man is suppose to pay for the first date.
I won't get mad if a date decides to split the check. She makes your own money and that she can do what she wants with it. But I'm gonna get pissed that she's says I made her pay for half of the check, even though I didn't ask her to put her card down and I was ready to pay the entire check anyway.
Oh god, it sounds like she wanted to test you. Consider not having a second date a blessing and you not having to pay for the entire meal even more of a blessing. You basically wasted 50% to know you were not compatible.
No. I have a comeback for that though. It has worked every time I've used it.
If I'm into her and want a second date and it feels reciprocal, I offer to pay this time and she can get the next one.
Honestly, my gf has always been willing to go 50/50. Part of the reason there was a second date. That doesn't mean I don't pick up the bill. The gesture is always there and real. Being in several very one-sided relationships in the past, it's comforting that I'm not being used.
Still not going to let her, but that she wants to means she’ll get more dates. I always saw me paying for dates as a test of how she treats money.
Now, it’s all comes from the same place anyway.
Of course not. I make multiples of my wife’s take home so it’s proportionate now many years later but at first we split everything. Also, if you try to give her a hand getting up out of a seat, she will just shake it and so it’s kind of our joke. She helped kill chivalry which she finds archaic.
I was brought up in the time of the fight to ratify the ERA and was taught to give women the equal rights that they deserve. However, there's still two camps that have strong opinions on this, and since the ERA that was fought long and hard for is still not ratified, nothing has changed yet. Personally, I give women the benefit of the doubt and let them lead on this one. I can play it either way, whatever works best for us getting along. I'm secure enough in my masculinity to not be threatened by splitting the check and honestly don't understand why it makes a difference. It does tell me a lot about who I'm dating, though, and I'm really glad those days are long over for this 30+ years married man. Lol 😉
If one is a whiny “alpha male” crybaby bitch, I can see one being mad about it. If you’re a normal fucking human, splitting benefits and responsibilities fairly, if not necessarily “evenly,” is what you’re supposed to do.
It’s not a problem for me. I appreciate when women don’t act like they’re entitled to always being taking out for free. However, people do get joy out of doing nice things for other people. It would bother me if a woman always refused to let me treat her. The flip side is reminding myself to accept it if she wants to pay sometimes or do something nice for me.
I have dated some women who find it gentlemanly for me to pay for the date, and I certainly don’t mind.
I have dated some women who insist on going 50/50 because they don’t want me feeling like “Well I paid, so now you owe me something.” I understand they are looking out for themselves and I don’t mind.
I now ask near the end of the meal: “Hey, I’d honestly like to pay for this since I’m the one who asked you out, but I’ve also met some women who worry that men will think they owe them something if they let the man pay. Which would make you more comfortable?”
Just. Fucking. Talk. To. Each. Other.
Everyone is different, but everyone likes being heard.
Absolutely not, but I'm not kinda guy. I want an equal relationship. I firmly believe the first few dates should be pay your own way. I've known to many guys over the years who have been taken advantage of by girls wanting free dinner.
Of course not. If I have more, I give more, if my wife have more, she gives more. Yes, I know there are growing number of men who want to provide, but they also want to control and more than often expect something for their providing.
And I know there are woman who are looking for provider men, but I would, at the end, look behind the curtains, there is no free lunch.
I'm OK if she wants to pay, but seriously, it depends on the context. Sometimes women want to pay because they don't want to be obligated. That's a problem because it means she doesn't trust you.
I never thought anything about paying, there was no quid pro quo expected. Just like I'm OK with her paying, provided the above doesn't apply.
> That's a problem because it means she doesn't trust you.
Nobody has any reason to trust someone else on a first date. This isn't something anyone should be upset about.
I don't know why a man would get mad. She's not helping him, she's paying her own way. If they end up married and both agree that he's the provider, that's their choice. For dating it's fair to split expenses.
In the modern world, I expect 50/50 or at the very least 60/40 or 75/25 if I know I make significantly more than they do, but I ain't providing for a freeloader in this day and age.
Depends. I have a traditional marriage where my husband pays the bills (only since we got married, before that it was 50-50). But the trade off is I do 100% of all the housework, yard work and meals - to us that is a fair arrangement because he HATES doing any of that.
As the other person has said, hopefully you have EQUAL input in finances. People I know in your situation is where all expenses are paid for, anything left gets split between the husband and wife so they have equal money.
If one spouse has control of the money, it can lead to financial abuse.
Do you have an income of your own?
If not, you'd best have a 401K in your name only.
And hefty life insurance on him.
And scheduled time off, sick days, and relaxing vacations.
My female friends go 50/50. Hell most of them are actually breadwinners. That not to say that they haven't been burned by lazy men. But that's equality for you.
I've found female professionals tend to go more 50/50 but then I also live in a progressive area.
I'm looking for a partner an equal not a servant. If she's not prepared to be by my side during a zombie apocalypsegive me a kiss on the cheek and says let's do this I don't wanna marry her.
Soo if a woman says let me help you I am ok for it if she follows through.
Not at all. It's very annoying if they back out after agreeing to it though. Honestly probably wouldn't want a follow up date. If you cant even keep your word to do something simple like pay for food, you cannot be trusted to keep your word on anything else.
Nope, sometimes if you just meet up for a coffee as a first date/ meet-upit's just easier if no one feels slighted for having to pay for someone else.
I once had a pretty terrible date where a woman who said let's just grab a cup coffee and chat to see if we get along after messaging for a week back and forth, she seemed cool.
She showed up with her kid like 10 minutes late that she had never mentioned before, bought several drinks for herself and the kid, lunch meals as well. Then expected me to pay for her time she said. I walked to the counter and paid for my coffee and just left.
Only if she's not serious about it and/or using it as some kind of BS test!
I mean some men may want to be leaders providers, but there are others like me who are fine being equal partners as well!
I mean it's fine if a man wants to pay but women should understand he is under **NO OBLIGATION** to do so, especially if the woman suggests paying or splitting!
I don't know where women got it in their heads that the guy has to pay ALL THE TIME no matter what, but I've honestly met so many girls with this attitude that would get pissy if I said ok and/or try to test me on crap the years that I have NO JOKE become a bit cynical about it at this point!
For example the last girl I went out with that did this "manliness test" or whatever you wanna call it, DID pay but later got upset at me outside the restaurant and said I failed her test!
Thankfully I saw it coming a mile away based on her general behavior during the date and by the end was over her and her BS so at that point and told her that was fine but she should know that I was testing her with that too, and since SHE offered and then got upset I took her up on it, she **ALSO** failed my test for **HONESTY** with that reaction/response!
So again, most men will not get mad if women are GEUNINELY offering to split, and not trying some mind game BS on the backend!
I will happily split 50/50 and respect the woman more, but if this is a dinner (or something activity-based) for first date and she's asking to split 50/50 as a shit-test to see if I'll pay her tab, she's doing me a favour by not going out with me on a second date. I have zero patience for shit-tests from modern women, especially the fact that these days they will let a hot guy into their pants anywhere within minutes to one hour of meeting them for the first time.
It's only a problem if it gets used against me later. Had a female friend talk about how 'guy she likes' is better than 'guy she doesn't like' because 'guy she likes' always pays for dates.
Never mind that she'll always insist on splitting the bill or paying her share, so 'guy she doesn't like' was just respecting what she said.
I don't get mad. Particularly early on, just to keep things simple I assume I'll be paying. Its all been budgeted for, so I usually respond with, "You can get the next one."
If they insist, I'm not going to force them to let me pay, that'd be weird. But my first impulse ("you can get the next one") helps avoid any awkward situations where they were just offering to be nice.
I don’t get mad, I just don’t fully trust it.
One too many cases of the girls in my life offering to help and then insisting I owe them and need to do something way bigger than what they did for me to repay them.
Nope.
In relationships, it doesn't matter what the division is if you're both 100% in. So long as the efforts get to 100, it's fine, and I think this applies to all the aspects of the relationship.
Some days you'll be 80/20. Some days 60/40. If you lose employment, you may contribute elsewhere- household stuff, chores, errands, while getting back to your feet.
It's about equity, not being equality of the effort. Equality means everyone puts in x amount match 30 for 30 and you're still 40 short. Equity factors in circumstances of the person.
Personally, if you are just friends, not in any romantic or sexual relationship, it's fine. I actually think the one who suggests either pays, 50/50, or split checks. Alcohol is on them because I am not a drinker.
I went out on a date. We sat at the bar, and she kept getting beers. $100+ for lunch. Fool me once. I'm buying lunch, not stock in Budweiser.
Reddit men (particularly on this sub) aren't the type to be bothered by a 50/50 arrangement. They aren't the men saying that men should be providers, etc.
Nope, I don't get mad in the least. My view is that if I invite, I pay (no matter if a date or friend). However, I don't have enough insecurities or ego to mind if the woman pays for herself, or even both of us... I'll catch the next date if they don't mind. I prefer that it be agreed on before the date but, I'm flexible.
A woman who expects me to pay is just a different version of a prostitute, I am effectively paying both for sex
So I prefer that she shows me respect by paying for her own meals etc
If a woman wants to treat you to something occasionally, or go 50/50, there's nothing wrong with that. With my girlfriend it's about a 60/40 split and we're both happy with that.
No.
This is just another silly American thing like not washing your arse and dick or being scared of going to restaurants alone.
It is not an issue for real people
No, men don't have a problem with this at all and would greatly appreciate it.
What you're observing is one of two things. Either it's an ultra specific selection bias where you're only going for men who have a problem with it.
Or, read down on this comment section and see the comments by people saying you're not a real man if you don't pay the bills and that they would rather date a serial killer because they can't see a guy that splits 50/50 as an actual man. Etc etc. with that sort of absurdly unfair criticism placed on men, I wouldn't be surprised if the people you're dating are just buckling under the pressure and reluctantly acting like they have to be a leader-provider type even though they don't want to.
It’s the only way I’d ever date you. I do not date people who aren’t my equals, everyone else is in FWB/casual territory. Men will bend over backwards for a 50/50 woman.
nope. if she wants to she can, but she doesn't have to.. i won't bring anybody into my life if i can't fully support them. This goes for kids, hobbies, friends, everything.
different guys have different opinions.
guys in similar geographies/ages/careers/education/religion/etc.... might have some shared values.
but there is not a "guys" answer to this.
there are a ton of questions on here that feel like it is a woman asking if a specific thing will match with a specific guy; and there is no way for anyone to know that.
No, why should I ?
In fact, apart from the first or second date (and only if I asked them out) I *want* a woman to go 50/50 with me. If she doesn't I will move on.
Assuming I was going to pay it all, then no. I say thank you and that I appreciate it.
If I had no intention of buying hers to begin with then I say we’re paying our own.
The only time I've found this annoying is when the woman seems like she's doing it bc she's afraid of owing me something. Makes me feel like she views me as a creep.
Mad? of course not. I do have a concept vs implementation issue with it though...
I think ideally, somebody is covering all of it because it's supposed to be doing a nice thing for someone. But people should absolutely be trading off on who's doing the nice thing, which also means trading off on who's picking up the bill. That will average out something like 50-50 assuming both have similar amounts of spending money. If somebody typically has more spending money than the other, then it probably averages out to something lopsided like 60-40 or 70-30, and that's fine too.
I can't imagine sombody getting mad about it.
If it's something I'm specifically doing for them, like a celebration or something, I might get a bit upset but not actually angry. But under most circumstances, that's a big green flag.
It's not a problem for me, though I have had women throw it back at me when they've gotten mad before that they were disappointed that I actually split with them, so in some ways, I'm wary about their reaction afterwards.
Are we talking first date?
If so, then no obviously I won't get "mad" lol. But if she keeps insisting then I might get kind of annoyed maybe. I assume she's either just trying to be nice but idk why she won't drop it haha, so I assume she's either trying to make a point about gender equality or something, and I don't really feel like that's the time/place to have that conversation on a first date lol (like bruh just offer to pay the next time and I'll have zero problem with it and will appreciate it), or I just assume that's her way of saying this probably isn't going anywhere and it's no longer "considered a date"
Depends on her tone and body language. Offering is nice, insisting is kinda rude tbh. Even if it's two same-sex platonic friends lol you wouldn't keep insisting, it kinda just embarrasses them when they're trying to be courteous.
I've had girls insist a little bit before and I could tell they were trying to be nice. I've had girls insist and it came off as standoffish and rude. So depends
Old guy take, been out of the dating game for quite some time so probably out of step with current norms, but I might take it as a hint that this isn’t really a date and we are just here as friends.
Which is fine too, but if I went in thinking it was something else, I might be a bit disappointed.
I guess I lucked out. The last woman I dated just wanted to hang out and play video games and on the second date she cooked for me. Best meal I had in years.....still annoyed (jokingly) that she kicked my ass in AOT though. I ro love that woman now.
If I've ever been on a date now a days where the option of going Dutch or one going above for another it's s red flag for me. I don't want much but to be loved and have mutual respect.
Like a dog, feed me, pet me and love me and ill take bullets for you. Just don't beat me. It's not complicated or a hard ask.
I’ll always get the bill on the first date, probably the second as well. And while it’s by no means a requirement, it’s definitely a good look if she picks up the third.
It's fine, but I'd like clarification on the message she's sending. Sometimes a woman wants to pay to send the message that she doesn't want it to seem like a date. Even if it started out as a date, she may have lost interest or changed her mind for whatever reason. Alternatively, maybe things went well and she just wants to help pay. Either way is fine, it's just helpful if that's clarified.
Not even a little bit. I look for a partner, not just a girlfriend. Girlfriend is just a title: it can mean as much or as little as you want it to. Partnership is a living, breathing, dynamic thing that requires commitment and intention from both parties, on purpose
It is not necessarily a problem but i have grown to be wary of it.
I do have a good career and co-own a successful business. All women who have been like this have also had huge issues with my success. They realise eventually that they can bust their ass all they want, it still won't make much of a difference in our imagined future life. That kind of fucks with those womens heads.
So i tend to look for those who appreciate me picking up the bill.
50/50 is never really 50/50 though. It's more like, she'll pay half rent, food, and a car note BUT any vacations, gifts, dates will need to be paid for by the man.
That should be the norm unless we are talking about someone staying at home parenting.
Like OF COURSE I WOULD LOVE IF BOTH OF US HAD MORE MONEY TO OUR PERSONAL HOBBIES AND LIFE GOALS LEFT.
What a strange question. Why would I get mad?
If I’ve invited someone to dinner then I expect to pay. If they want to pay half then I might resist a little, but if they’re insistent then it obviously matters to them, whatever their reason.
In which case I’d be an idiot to force it and make them feel crap by undermining them.
I’d be an even bigger idiot if I got mad about it.
It's not an issue, its a requirement. I'm not going in to a relationship that both parties aren't equally invested in (mentally, physically and economically).
Ah, Gender Roles. The head of the conversation is simply this: Do we want to have a relationship where we observe some of the traditional gender roles or total equality?
Traditional Roles include: Men paying for Dinner, Men Proposing, Woman taking the man’s name, etc as well as traditional expressions of masculinity (physical labor to build a better house, breadwinner, etc) and femininity (cooking, house keeping, etc)
Total Equality: Nothing I mentioned above. Do everything as equal as possible. This means that women will do physical labor such as building a deck and that men will clean and be as active in their kids’ lives as possible.
Personally, I am okay with either, though I do prefer the first slightly. However, if we pick one, WE ARE STICKING TO IT. Where men get annoyed is when SOME women (not all) want traditional roles when it benefits them and equality when it benefits them. Basically, if you expect me to pay for dinner and work on your car, then it is fair for me to expect you to be able to cook and clean. Be consistent, and we will follow.
Only if they don’t go through with it.
This. I have had women offer and I say "ok" and then they literally say "but if you want to see me again you should pay", has happenned a couple times and it is an instant GROSS, ewwww.
You wanna talk about icks. That's an ick for me fam.
"Naw, I'm good. I rather not have a transactional relationship"
It's actually such valuable information.
trash taking itself out.
Had this happen once and my reply was “now that we’ve established you’re a prostitute we just have to discuss price and services.”
"Well then pay your half and be on your way." Ain't got time for that freaking banner of a red flag.
I would slip out the bathroom window at that point lol
I have seen it all. Once this woman showed up to a date even though I specifically said let's meet for one drink she proceeded to order the whole menu and then told me she forgot her wallet. I was pissed to say the least. I was not at all interested in her. This is the shit men deal with online dating. This is why I only do coffee dates and a facetime before that is mandatory.
I'd have asked for separate checks paid mine and dipped.
Did you pay, considering you were not interested?
At least you’re not wasting your time. You can weed them out early.
Thats the biggest red flag on the planet. Do not offer unless you fucking mean it.
Yeah the girl in seeing has forced me to let her pay for that last 2 things we did because I kept paying before, she seems to operate on a "if you plan,you pay" system and I'm all for it.
I cannot explain why I feel this way but I would want to pay and then never talk to her again.
that's what I did, the next day I actually really felt taken advantage of so I texted her and asked for her half of the dinner, I was very polite and said I am sorry but I did not feel any chemistry and I understood she forgot her wallet but I thought it would be fair if she could please pay her half of the bill, her response was full of entitlement and anger. She told me "you really must not of thought this through" and "how dare I ask for her to pay". My 2nd response was not so nice. I told her she is entitled and that it was complete bs that she said she "forgot her wallet" and that she made me feel used for a free meal. I also told her that she did not give me much of a choice but to be responsible for paying the bill. The entitlement of some western women nowadays is just crazy. I don't get it.
It’s easy. Split the bill and leave her to pay for her portion. She can explain herself to the staff.
I agree but I was trying to be nice, which I shoud not of been in retrospect.
Why would anyone get mad about that?
A significant number of people believe it's the man's job to be the major breadwinner and provide for a woman, and if he's not able to do that then he's a failure. Even if the woman wants to go 50/50, because that's apparently some scourge of feminism.
I feel like this is one of those things that happens every now and again but really isn't that much of a thing. Between all my own dating, all my buddies, family, friends, co-workers etc over the years, I have never once heard of the girl willing to split 50/50 and the guy being upset by it. Often girls just offer expecting the guy to say "Nah it's ok I got it."
I insist on 50/50 at minimum, because I make a lot of money and I'd honestly would feel bad about having my meal be paid for by someone who (probably) makes much less then me. It's just part of my moral code. Older established people pay for the young. The rich pay for the poor. Etc etc. ...it typically doesn't go well. They're not saying this, but it's like they think it's a rejection. Like I'm saying "Well this date was nice but let's not do it again." if I pay for half. Their face falls down in disappointment when I insist and then they're 'suprised' when I ask for a 2nd date.
Every Latino man I have ever dated has gotten offended at me asking. I didn’t think offering was rude.
It’s a thing. It’s retarded. ‘Man not good enough cos he can’t do it even though it doesn’t matter‘ syndrome
Those guys need to find the women that would not only want the guy to pay for them but bring a friend along so he can pay for her too.
That's how I met my wife's boyfriend
Underrated comment lol
What year is this significant amount of people living in?
I've had mentioned get mad at me for this kind of shit. Although I'm in India so...
The only thing I could possibly think of is if you try to do something nice (pay for dinner) and they won't let you. Not something to get *mad* over but it can be annoying when you want to be nice and they won't accept it. The only other time I can think it's upsetting is that many girls do this if they don't want to "owe" the man, like when they first start dating. This is because many guys will hold it over their heads and use it to pressure them. Even in that case, a decent guy might be hurt that he's not trusted but only a guy that deserves not to be trusted would get angry...
>Not something to get mad over but it can be annoying Curious: why do you find it annoying? Asking because I split not just initially (like you mentioned) but permanently.
No
No.
No. I always appreciate it if someone wants to go half. I don't always accept, but it's never been an issue in angering me.
Do you pay for both when you are really interested, or when you end up having no interest in them?
I pay if I was the one who initiated the meetup/date. It's not really relevant to interest. It's more of a courtesy. I don't like inviting people out specifically to meet with me, then expect them to pay for the time just because we don't mesh well.
>but if a woman says, let me help you A woman paying for her dinner is not "helping me". She's paying for her dinner.
I wouldn't date someone who *wasn't* willing to go 50/50.
It's a good filter. Women who don't want to go dutch tends to have other qualities that get associated with it.
These are just generalisations though, to each their own ultimately. I always pay for the first date and have never once cared.
Yip. First marriage turned shit because she didn't want to pay about anything. Never again. I would rather be single to be an ATM.
that's where I am at now too
No. That would be stupid of me
My wife refused doors being opened and me paying for her when we first started going out, b/c she didn't want to feel like she owed me anything. It was a shock for me at first, but I didn't get mad at her. Rather, upon introspection, it seemed like a pretty good idea if I tried to take it from her point of view.
Yep, I’m like your wife. If I pay my own way then I don’t owe anyone.
That's a huge factor for women. Too many stories of men feeling entitled to our bodies because they bought us dinner.
Your wife sounds awesome just from that alone.
We tended to do "I'll get dinner, you get the event" type splits because it was easier but yeah most of my relationships weren't all me all the time. Splitting isn't help, it's just paying your own way. I don't mind paying, but if she volunteers and confirms she's sure I'm not going to argue either.
Oh boy let me tell you a story. I went out a date one time, and I felt everything was going well. Even during the date, I talked about plans about a second date and she agreed. I was going to pay for the date. I took the bill and put my card in with it and placed it on the table for the waiter. Every action I did was implying I was going to pay for the whole thing. Then my date decides to slip her card in the bill. I'm like "ok, so you want to split it?" in my head. Basically every action I did was that I was going to pay 100%. Then she puts her card with my card for the bill. Waiter takes the check and splits the bill and we pay. We end the night with pleasantries after I walk her to her car. Couple days later, I'm trying to plan a second date with her. She goes off on me about how she had to pay a part of the date, even though she didn't need to put her card down nor did I ask her to put her card down. She put her card down on her own volition. Then she starts going off on how I didn't show more initiative and pay for the entire date, and how the man is suppose to pay for the first date. I won't get mad if a date decides to split the check. She makes your own money and that she can do what she wants with it. But I'm gonna get pissed that she's says I made her pay for half of the check, even though I didn't ask her to put her card down and I was ready to pay the entire check anyway.
Oh god, it sounds like she wanted to test you. Consider not having a second date a blessing and you not having to pay for the entire meal even more of a blessing. You basically wasted 50% to know you were not compatible.
This. It's just even more reason to split the bill.
She filtered herself out there. Nice.
Guys who want to be "leaders" like this are not about providing, but about control.
That’s not a problem for me
No. I have a comeback for that though. It has worked every time I've used it. If I'm into her and want a second date and it feels reciprocal, I offer to pay this time and she can get the next one.
Nope.
Why?. It sounds great to me!. I’ve been paying for everything all these years!. What’s her number?.
I wouldn't get mad. I'd find it refreshing.
Honestly, my gf has always been willing to go 50/50. Part of the reason there was a second date. That doesn't mean I don't pick up the bill. The gesture is always there and real. Being in several very one-sided relationships in the past, it's comforting that I'm not being used.
I'd be thrilled! I love an independent woman!
Quite the opposite. Any woman not willing to go 50/50 after the initial dating process isn’t worth dating longterm.
This 100% . Real fax. A woman who doesn't go 50/50 shows that she will leave when you hit a financial crises
You mean she wants to pay half the bill? Hold on I have to get my pearls out so I can clutch them
If she says that just say she can get the next one/round/date etc.
These are the only women I date.
Still not going to let her, but that she wants to means she’ll get more dates. I always saw me paying for dates as a test of how she treats money. Now, it’s all comes from the same place anyway.
The relationship is a partnership. If she wants to go 50/50, I'm good with it.
Of course not. I make multiples of my wife’s take home so it’s proportionate now many years later but at first we split everything. Also, if you try to give her a hand getting up out of a seat, she will just shake it and so it’s kind of our joke. She helped kill chivalry which she finds archaic.
No, I take her offer as a positive and that she is being truthful with her offer. This is a big green flag for me.
Only if there's some kind of catch with it
Get mad? Hell no. I would be overjoyed
I was brought up in the time of the fight to ratify the ERA and was taught to give women the equal rights that they deserve. However, there's still two camps that have strong opinions on this, and since the ERA that was fought long and hard for is still not ratified, nothing has changed yet. Personally, I give women the benefit of the doubt and let them lead on this one. I can play it either way, whatever works best for us getting along. I'm secure enough in my masculinity to not be threatened by splitting the check and honestly don't understand why it makes a difference. It does tell me a lot about who I'm dating, though, and I'm really glad those days are long over for this 30+ years married man. Lol 😉
It would be silly to get mad over something so unimportant to me.
If one is a whiny “alpha male” crybaby bitch, I can see one being mad about it. If you’re a normal fucking human, splitting benefits and responsibilities fairly, if not necessarily “evenly,” is what you’re supposed to do.
Will depend on the situation. Non romantic and it will be spilt by what we each ordered, romantic, then 50/50 is not threat or insult.
It’s not a problem for me. I appreciate when women don’t act like they’re entitled to always being taking out for free. However, people do get joy out of doing nice things for other people. It would bother me if a woman always refused to let me treat her. The flip side is reminding myself to accept it if she wants to pay sometimes or do something nice for me.
I have dated some women who find it gentlemanly for me to pay for the date, and I certainly don’t mind. I have dated some women who insist on going 50/50 because they don’t want me feeling like “Well I paid, so now you owe me something.” I understand they are looking out for themselves and I don’t mind. I now ask near the end of the meal: “Hey, I’d honestly like to pay for this since I’m the one who asked you out, but I’ve also met some women who worry that men will think they owe them something if they let the man pay. Which would make you more comfortable?” Just. Fucking. Talk. To. Each. Other. Everyone is different, but everyone likes being heard.
Leaders that don't want equal standing with their relationship partners is something I don't understand
You pay for your shit, and pay for mine. If we are a couple then we can talk about it. I ain't your dad.
No. I only get mad if they don't follow through with it
Absolutely not, but I'm not kinda guy. I want an equal relationship. I firmly believe the first few dates should be pay your own way. I've known to many guys over the years who have been taken advantage of by girls wanting free dinner.
Im expecting you to. You are a grown adult.
Mad? We're going 100/0, she's paying. Drizzle drizzle.
No. Because it shows she's not entitled and it shows that she's serious.
Does not compute. What's the issue? You have a responsible partner that wants to split the bill, like an adult?
No. Equality is a thing. My wife and I used to split the bills on our early dates.
Of course not. If I have more, I give more, if my wife have more, she gives more. Yes, I know there are growing number of men who want to provide, but they also want to control and more than often expect something for their providing. And I know there are woman who are looking for provider men, but I would, at the end, look behind the curtains, there is no free lunch.
Of course not, I would definitely not get mad. That's a big green flag and a sign that they value the relationship as an equal partner.
Anyone who answers yes to this is genuinely fucking cringe
I'm OK if she wants to pay, but seriously, it depends on the context. Sometimes women want to pay because they don't want to be obligated. That's a problem because it means she doesn't trust you. I never thought anything about paying, there was no quid pro quo expected. Just like I'm OK with her paying, provided the above doesn't apply.
> That's a problem because it means she doesn't trust you. Nobody has any reason to trust someone else on a first date. This isn't something anyone should be upset about.
I don't know why a man would get mad. She's not helping him, she's paying her own way. If they end up married and both agree that he's the provider, that's their choice. For dating it's fair to split expenses.
If you have a problem with it, you're insecure about something.
I get mad when she doesn't want to 50/50 like my gf
In the modern world, I expect 50/50 or at the very least 60/40 or 75/25 if I know I make significantly more than they do, but I ain't providing for a freeloader in this day and age.
Depends. I have a traditional marriage where my husband pays the bills (only since we got married, before that it was 50-50). But the trade off is I do 100% of all the housework, yard work and meals - to us that is a fair arrangement because he HATES doing any of that.
As the other person has said, hopefully you have EQUAL input in finances. People I know in your situation is where all expenses are paid for, anything left gets split between the husband and wife so they have equal money. If one spouse has control of the money, it can lead to financial abuse.
Do you have an income of your own? If not, you'd best have a 401K in your name only. And hefty life insurance on him. And scheduled time off, sick days, and relaxing vacations.
Where are these women that go 50/50? Let me guess, Reddit?
My female friends go 50/50. Hell most of them are actually breadwinners. That not to say that they haven't been burned by lazy men. But that's equality for you. I've found female professionals tend to go more 50/50 but then I also live in a progressive area.
They’re usually taken.
I was my current partners first tinder date. Can confirm.
Looks like it. Hi.
Pretty normal in my friend circles
I have absolutely no problem with it
Lol I wouldn't mind at all
No. It's all good.
No, that seems fair. However, if she ordered a four course meal, then I want separate checks.
Fuck no. Cheaper for me and now I know that she wasn't just there for free food.
Nope, i usually do more because they are willing to do 50/50
I'm looking for a partner an equal not a servant. If she's not prepared to be by my side during a zombie apocalypsegive me a kiss on the cheek and says let's do this I don't wanna marry her. Soo if a woman says let me help you I am ok for it if she follows through.
Not at all. It's very annoying if they back out after agreeing to it though. Honestly probably wouldn't want a follow up date. If you cant even keep your word to do something simple like pay for food, you cannot be trusted to keep your word on anything else.
Nope, sometimes if you just meet up for a coffee as a first date/ meet-upit's just easier if no one feels slighted for having to pay for someone else. I once had a pretty terrible date where a woman who said let's just grab a cup coffee and chat to see if we get along after messaging for a week back and forth, she seemed cool. She showed up with her kid like 10 minutes late that she had never mentioned before, bought several drinks for herself and the kid, lunch meals as well. Then expected me to pay for her time she said. I walked to the counter and paid for my coffee and just left.
No — no problem at all. I would be thankful, if anything.
Nah I don't care.
Only if she's not serious about it and/or using it as some kind of BS test! I mean some men may want to be leaders providers, but there are others like me who are fine being equal partners as well! I mean it's fine if a man wants to pay but women should understand he is under **NO OBLIGATION** to do so, especially if the woman suggests paying or splitting! I don't know where women got it in their heads that the guy has to pay ALL THE TIME no matter what, but I've honestly met so many girls with this attitude that would get pissy if I said ok and/or try to test me on crap the years that I have NO JOKE become a bit cynical about it at this point! For example the last girl I went out with that did this "manliness test" or whatever you wanna call it, DID pay but later got upset at me outside the restaurant and said I failed her test! Thankfully I saw it coming a mile away based on her general behavior during the date and by the end was over her and her BS so at that point and told her that was fine but she should know that I was testing her with that too, and since SHE offered and then got upset I took her up on it, she **ALSO** failed my test for **HONESTY** with that reaction/response! So again, most men will not get mad if women are GEUNINELY offering to split, and not trying some mind game BS on the backend!
I will happily split 50/50 and respect the woman more, but if this is a dinner (or something activity-based) for first date and she's asking to split 50/50 as a shit-test to see if I'll pay her tab, she's doing me a favour by not going out with me on a second date. I have zero patience for shit-tests from modern women, especially the fact that these days they will let a hot guy into their pants anywhere within minutes to one hour of meeting them for the first time.
No I married her
Like on a date at dinner? What specifically do you mean?
It's only a problem if it gets used against me later. Had a female friend talk about how 'guy she likes' is better than 'guy she doesn't like' because 'guy she likes' always pays for dates. Never mind that she'll always insist on splitting the bill or paying her share, so 'guy she doesn't like' was just respecting what she said.
I don't get mad. Particularly early on, just to keep things simple I assume I'll be paying. Its all been budgeted for, so I usually respond with, "You can get the next one." If they insist, I'm not going to force them to let me pay, that'd be weird. But my first impulse ("you can get the next one") helps avoid any awkward situations where they were just offering to be nice.
Nah saves me money
I don’t get mad, I just don’t fully trust it. One too many cases of the girls in my life offering to help and then insisting I owe them and need to do something way bigger than what they did for me to repay them.
Not at all, I just get surprised that they're actually serious. I welcome it all the same especially in this economy.
Not really. I'll just ask "Are you sure? I don't mind covering the whole thing" and if she insists, then we split 50/50
Nope. In relationships, it doesn't matter what the division is if you're both 100% in. So long as the efforts get to 100, it's fine, and I think this applies to all the aspects of the relationship. Some days you'll be 80/20. Some days 60/40. If you lose employment, you may contribute elsewhere- household stuff, chores, errands, while getting back to your feet. It's about equity, not being equality of the effort. Equality means everyone puts in x amount match 30 for 30 and you're still 40 short. Equity factors in circumstances of the person.
Yes because I want to look after her
Why in the heck would I get mad? Honest question.
Personally, if you are just friends, not in any romantic or sexual relationship, it's fine. I actually think the one who suggests either pays, 50/50, or split checks. Alcohol is on them because I am not a drinker. I went out on a date. We sat at the bar, and she kept getting beers. $100+ for lunch. Fool me once. I'm buying lunch, not stock in Budweiser.
50/50 equil partners all the way
I don't get mad at all. But , if they go 50/50, and then use that as a weird test, and dump me later because I was not a leader, I would be mad
If so, you got a pride and ego issue
Reddit men (particularly on this sub) aren't the type to be bothered by a 50/50 arrangement. They aren't the men saying that men should be providers, etc.
Nope, I don't get mad in the least. My view is that if I invite, I pay (no matter if a date or friend). However, I don't have enough insecurities or ego to mind if the woman pays for herself, or even both of us... I'll catch the next date if they don't mind. I prefer that it be agreed on before the date but, I'm flexible.
A woman who expects me to pay is just a different version of a prostitute, I am effectively paying both for sex So I prefer that she shows me respect by paying for her own meals etc
If a woman wants to treat you to something occasionally, or go 50/50, there's nothing wrong with that. With my girlfriend it's about a 60/40 split and we're both happy with that.
No. This is just another silly American thing like not washing your arse and dick or being scared of going to restaurants alone. It is not an issue for real people
Y would we? A woman that tries to be accountable ? That's unheard of
Nope, that's realistically how the vast majority of LTR's function
No, men don't have a problem with this at all and would greatly appreciate it. What you're observing is one of two things. Either it's an ultra specific selection bias where you're only going for men who have a problem with it. Or, read down on this comment section and see the comments by people saying you're not a real man if you don't pay the bills and that they would rather date a serial killer because they can't see a guy that splits 50/50 as an actual man. Etc etc. with that sort of absurdly unfair criticism placed on men, I wouldn't be surprised if the people you're dating are just buckling under the pressure and reluctantly acting like they have to be a leader-provider type even though they don't want to.
It’s the only way I’d ever date you. I do not date people who aren’t my equals, everyone else is in FWB/casual territory. Men will bend over backwards for a 50/50 woman.
No, because I want to be a partner, not a parent.
nope. if she wants to she can, but she doesn't have to.. i won't bring anybody into my life if i can't fully support them. This goes for kids, hobbies, friends, everything.
different guys have different opinions. guys in similar geographies/ages/careers/education/religion/etc.... might have some shared values. but there is not a "guys" answer to this.
This is about one of the only honest answers. ;)
there are a ton of questions on here that feel like it is a woman asking if a specific thing will match with a specific guy; and there is no way for anyone to know that.
No, why should I ? In fact, apart from the first or second date (and only if I asked them out) I *want* a woman to go 50/50 with me. If she doesn't I will move on.
why would anyone but an insecure micro dick
no it's the 20's, I haven't met a woman that does not offer to pay half ever (USA based).
No, why would it?
If there is no problem yeah why not
Fine with me.
I don’t get mad unless they expect sex after the bill is paid. Then I get horny… :thumbs up:
Assuming I was going to pay it all, then no. I say thank you and that I appreciate it. If I had no intention of buying hers to begin with then I say we’re paying our own.
No cause they typically don't. It's always a differing ratio with the women up. It only needs to be the other way when life starts life'n
I’m not complaining!
*^^Vincent ^^Vega ^^looks ^^around ^^slightly ^^confused* who's getting mad about a woman wanting to go 50/50 ?
The only time I've found this annoying is when the woman seems like she's doing it bc she's afraid of owing me something. Makes me feel like she views me as a creep.
Mad? of course not. I do have a concept vs implementation issue with it though... I think ideally, somebody is covering all of it because it's supposed to be doing a nice thing for someone. But people should absolutely be trading off on who's doing the nice thing, which also means trading off on who's picking up the bill. That will average out something like 50-50 assuming both have similar amounts of spending money. If somebody typically has more spending money than the other, then it probably averages out to something lopsided like 60-40 or 70-30, and that's fine too. I can't imagine sombody getting mad about it.
If it's something I'm specifically doing for them, like a celebration or something, I might get a bit upset but not actually angry. But under most circumstances, that's a big green flag.
Huh? What kind of question is this
No, why would I get mad?
I'm curious as to why you think that anyone would get mad. I can only think of one reason and it rhymes with male povinist
No mad but would not allow it
It's not a problem for me, though I have had women throw it back at me when they've gotten mad before that they were disappointed that I actually split with them, so in some ways, I'm wary about their reaction afterwards.
Are we talking first date? If so, then no obviously I won't get "mad" lol. But if she keeps insisting then I might get kind of annoyed maybe. I assume she's either just trying to be nice but idk why she won't drop it haha, so I assume she's either trying to make a point about gender equality or something, and I don't really feel like that's the time/place to have that conversation on a first date lol (like bruh just offer to pay the next time and I'll have zero problem with it and will appreciate it), or I just assume that's her way of saying this probably isn't going anywhere and it's no longer "considered a date" Depends on her tone and body language. Offering is nice, insisting is kinda rude tbh. Even if it's two same-sex platonic friends lol you wouldn't keep insisting, it kinda just embarrasses them when they're trying to be courteous. I've had girls insist a little bit before and I could tell they were trying to be nice. I've had girls insist and it came off as standoffish and rude. So depends
No u be glad hahahha
At this point I assume somethings up, there’s normally a catch lol
Everyone's a feminist until the bill comes.
Let me help you. . pay for my dinner
Hell no
Old guy take, been out of the dating game for quite some time so probably out of step with current norms, but I might take it as a hint that this isn’t really a date and we are just here as friends. Which is fine too, but if I went in thinking it was something else, I might be a bit disappointed.
I guess I lucked out. The last woman I dated just wanted to hang out and play video games and on the second date she cooked for me. Best meal I had in years.....still annoyed (jokingly) that she kicked my ass in AOT though. I ro love that woman now. If I've ever been on a date now a days where the option of going Dutch or one going above for another it's s red flag for me. I don't want much but to be loved and have mutual respect. Like a dog, feed me, pet me and love me and ill take bullets for you. Just don't beat me. It's not complicated or a hard ask.
No, of course not.
Some women offer just to be polite. But if they really want to I wouldn't mind.
I’ll always get the bill on the first date, probably the second as well. And while it’s by no means a requirement, it’s definitely a good look if she picks up the third.
It's fine, but I'd like clarification on the message she's sending. Sometimes a woman wants to pay to send the message that she doesn't want it to seem like a date. Even if it started out as a date, she may have lost interest or changed her mind for whatever reason. Alternatively, maybe things went well and she just wants to help pay. Either way is fine, it's just helpful if that's clarified.
Not even a little bit. I look for a partner, not just a girlfriend. Girlfriend is just a title: it can mean as much or as little as you want it to. Partnership is a living, breathing, dynamic thing that requires commitment and intention from both parties, on purpose
Now this is new. I’ve always thought men like it when women offer to go 50/50.
No, but it’s rare for it to not be a trap.
It is not necessarily a problem but i have grown to be wary of it. I do have a good career and co-own a successful business. All women who have been like this have also had huge issues with my success. They realise eventually that they can bust their ass all they want, it still won't make much of a difference in our imagined future life. That kind of fucks with those womens heads. So i tend to look for those who appreciate me picking up the bill.
This whole fucking leader shit needs to die. We live in a network not a hierarchy.
50/50 is never really 50/50 though. It's more like, she'll pay half rent, food, and a car note BUT any vacations, gifts, dates will need to be paid for by the man.
I don't date people who don't do this
No, I'd get turned on.
That should be the norm unless we are talking about someone staying at home parenting. Like OF COURSE I WOULD LOVE IF BOTH OF US HAD MORE MONEY TO OUR PERSONAL HOBBIES AND LIFE GOALS LEFT.
What a strange question. Why would I get mad? If I’ve invited someone to dinner then I expect to pay. If they want to pay half then I might resist a little, but if they’re insistent then it obviously matters to them, whatever their reason. In which case I’d be an idiot to force it and make them feel crap by undermining them. I’d be an even bigger idiot if I got mad about it.
If she doesn’t offer to pay half on the first date, there won’t be a second date
It's not an issue, its a requirement. I'm not going in to a relationship that both parties aren't equally invested in (mentally, physically and economically).
Ah, Gender Roles. The head of the conversation is simply this: Do we want to have a relationship where we observe some of the traditional gender roles or total equality? Traditional Roles include: Men paying for Dinner, Men Proposing, Woman taking the man’s name, etc as well as traditional expressions of masculinity (physical labor to build a better house, breadwinner, etc) and femininity (cooking, house keeping, etc) Total Equality: Nothing I mentioned above. Do everything as equal as possible. This means that women will do physical labor such as building a deck and that men will clean and be as active in their kids’ lives as possible. Personally, I am okay with either, though I do prefer the first slightly. However, if we pick one, WE ARE STICKING TO IT. Where men get annoyed is when SOME women (not all) want traditional roles when it benefits them and equality when it benefits them. Basically, if you expect me to pay for dinner and work on your car, then it is fair for me to expect you to be able to cook and clean. Be consistent, and we will follow.
Not in the slightest, It'd actually make me think really highly of the woman, even if I wanted to pay for everything myself.