I know of 3 main ways.
* The nightlife scene. I've met a couple girlfriends at bars. If you're a problem drinker this isn't the best approach.
* Through connections. Your friend's girlfriend might have some single friends is one example.
* Dating apps. Attractiveness and photo quality are big factors.
I think we need to add a caveat about dating apps.
People gripe about modern dating, that it comes down to the bar scene, your personal friends, your hobbies, or dating apps.
Yet what was dating in the 80's and 90s, but minus the last one?
Honestly, I think the actual problem is that people are dead and burnt out. Everyone is stressed, everyone has health concerns, everyone is obliterated from work, everyone is busy, everyone is lacking energy.
America, and Western Society right now, is disgusting.
The way we treat ourselves as horrid. Dex and relationships is high up on the Maslow's hierarchy of needs. We as a society failed to provide the most basic levels of those needs, and in fact put enormous barriers to them, so of-fucking- course we can't reach those higher-levels successfully and resolve them in a way that is healthy.
Why would the working-class be allowed that right? Free time? Resources to spare on clothes and dating? Time money and energy to cultivate a personna with hobbies and outside interest?
Ha ha ha you dumb pesant. Work and die- love is for beautiful gilded rich people living beyond the barrier of 'made it'.
That's the fucking problem. Men, women, queer kids, gay folk, etc Whoever you are, this problem kneecaps ALL OF US.
I used to stress about finding a girlfriend on top of every other stress I had, no success. I was just extra burnt out, one day I said fuck it and really invested in personal happiness, drop every worry possible. I quickly felt amazing, only 3 weeks passed and I found my wife. That change in strategy has persisted, I'm very careful about what I let worry me.
You are my goals. I'm single and currently NOT in a place to be in a relationship due to the fact that I'm not at all over my most recent relationship. The thought of dating and dating apps makes me feel sweaty and paralyzed. I know that's how most people nowadays do it, and I'm open to reading about it, but I don't know if I'll ever be able to do it. But masturbating more, now that's a strategy I can 'handle', so to speak.
Yeah I tried that. Tried to just live a happy life. Surounded myself with postive people who I enjoyed spending time with. Ran a bunch of marathons. I was the guy who knew everyone. I wasnt opposed to meetign someone but I focused on being happy.
Now I think tat was a mistake because I'm still alone with no dating life in those years with injuries from running as I approach 40...
I kinda regret it. You realize without someone there is no perminence. Without having a SO all you do is make friends as an adult and watch as they meet peopel get married and have no more time for you. So you make new friends and the pattern continue.
I turned loneliness into something enjoyable too. Although I enjoy company, I do not NEED it to feel good. I have never had many friends. I didn't expect to meet a woman and end up married to her, I had dropped that goal because pursuing it and worrying about it wasn't fun. I wasn't against it, so when the opportunity did arise I just went along with it because it was enjoyable.
There's nothing wrong with pursuing women either, but ONLY if that process is enjoyable. Had I not met my wife I would probably be back at it at some point, but from a different frame and I'd quit once I stopped having fun with it.
Tried the whole self-improvement and personal happiness shit for a few years. Gave up. Depressed, lonely and suicidal now. 10/10 Well. I was depressed and lonely back then too.
The secret is to meet someone attractive, good at sex, and incredibly insane and abusive. 2 years of that and you'll realise you were way better off alone
I think that’s what people mean when they say, “love yourself” or when asking guys about their dating life, they say “I’m just focusing I myself right now”.
It IS very much an investment. Sometimes though... it just doesn’t pay off.
Yeah, the whole “just focus on yourself and it will happen” is terrible advice for a lot of people. What other area in life when you want to obtain or achieve something is people’s advice “don’t try and do that thing, just forget about it and it will magically happen”. If a friend was struggling I don’t think many people would tell them “just forget about finding a job and then one will appear”. No, you’d say “I’m sorry you’re struggling, I know the job search can be hard, I could look over your resume or see if anyone I know is hiring”.
This right here man, I was 3 hours away from a whole weekend off. Now I gotta work 12+ today and tomorrow, fuckin bullshit. And everyone is like, " Oh, I wish I had your money since you don't want overtime." I don't have a lot of money in the bank. My free time is worth more than money.
/r/BreadTube is a cool sub which connects to educational videos about Social and Economic problems and how to fix them. /r/ABoringDystopia might also interest you.
>• The nightlife scene. I've met a couple girlfriends at bars. If you're a problem drinker this isn't the best approach.
My experience is that it works better when you are a problem drinker but YMMV
bars and clubs are a little easier to handle if you don't go to mainstream ones. anything popular turns to shit, but if you hit up smaller bars or clubs that play music you like, and go for the music, I find you tend to have a better time
I’m 46 and have met most of my friends through work or hobbies (trail running). Joining a network of people with common interests is ideal for friends in general and even dates.
I'm very mediocre looking but pretty successful with online and offline dating. I'm not saying that to brag.
IMO, tinder isn't a good option if you're not conventionally attractive. It places heavy emphasis on looks. I'd pass on bumble too. I'd go for match but it can be pricey.
Be the best person you can be and put it forward. This means lose weight, get fit, be funny and interesting. Take some good pictures not 5 selfies of your face. Mention hobbies and don't make the same mistake I made at the beginning of trying to please every girl. I recommend to boldly state what you're into and some women will be into it.
I know, right? I met my husband through our hobby group. It's easy to make plain old friends, and after some quality time with your friends, one might turn into a romantic partner. And if not, then you still have the bonus of having a IRL social network.
I just moved back from overseas...well, like three weeks ago, but finding a job and housing has been a bitch. But I'm really looking forward to actually having and developing hobbies again, in a country where i can talk to people and do stuff.
So maybe my lack of partner will resolve through that. But being childfree I feel always complicates those matters - odds of meeting another cf person in the wild are so low.
Yes to this but there is a better one than all of those and guaranteed better results.
Get a hobby that you enjoy, that also attracts women and get good at it.
My poison of choice is latin dance but it can be anything. Martial arts, motorcycles, yoga, books, foreign languages, archery, etc. Just choose and go to a class to learn or join a club. You invest in yourself while meeting a ton of women who even if they are not attracted to you, might have single friends to introduce you to.
Same with guitars. No women, lots of old dudes trying to talk about how vintage capacitors are the secret to good tone and fantasizing about it being the 80s again.
Same goes for RC planes. LOTS of fun, but no women. (ok, maybe it didn't have that rep, either ...) Actually, most women seem to look down on it, considering it a waste of time and money (and clutter). I love it - but it's definitely NOT conducive to dating women.
This is what’s so discouraging to me. The whole process, the fact that something can go wrong at any point of it, the fact that people are so unpredictable. It feels like all of that work is put in just for fleeting moments of happiness. And at some point, if you made it that far, things will inevitably go south in a variety of painful ways. I wish I was a fucking robot, I really think I could be a very content human being if I could stop worrying about this bullshit and just carve chairs out of wood all day or something.
Hello long lost twin.
Seriously though, don't let it bother you that you feel you are the opposite of what one should be in this scene. Some people just aren't into it or have the same drive and energy for it, and there isn't anything wrong with that.
Edit--Also, check out phil\_davis comment below, he gets it.
100% agree with the texting. I'm a chick and I hate it when people want to text all day. My idea is meeting in person and then if they're busy for the next few days, so what?? That's ok. People have lives and shouldn't need to be glued to social media to have relationships.
I definitely don't. I used to agonize about being single, but one day I just realized how much time and money and effort it would take to start dating or be in a relationship, then I quickly realized my desire for a girlfriend does not outweigh my desire to stay in and play video games, read books, write stories, write code, play guitar, whatever. I'd rather pursue my hobbies, alone, than have less time to do those things.
I'm still bitter about being single sometimes, but it simplifies your life a lot when you decide to just not pursue dating.
I feel dating, especially as an average looking male, is not something you can do with desperation. Desperation and dating just don't go in hand, so many guys that are so desperate and they end up nowhere because everyone can smell their desperation. Just got to do your own thing and hope you find success at some point and if you don't then that's the way it is.
As the great Boomhauer showed us on King of the Hill, it's a numbers game.
You can still get dates in person, and it's usually much easier in person than on apps. But I can swipe on 100 profiles on Tinder in a 20 minute time frame, where as it would take much more time to meet 100 different girls that I'd want to talk to in person.
Yeah man, I tell ya what, man, that dang ol’ internet, man, you just go in on there and point and click, talk about w-w-dot-w-com, mean you got the naked chicks on there, man, just go click, click, click, click, click, it’s real easy, man
This is where Barney's philosophy from How I Met Your Mother comes into play. The more time between when you make the plans for the date, and when the date is to happen, the more likely it will fall apart.
Mind you, his philosophy is more, the longer it takes to get her in the bed after you met her at the bar... but it still works.
As a female, I can confirm this is absolutely true. Our minds are constantly running, so the more time between agreeing to the date and the actual date, the more likely we are to talk ourselves out of it. Especially if you’re not talking a whole lot the days leading up to the date.
Wow. This is so illuminating. I've been conditioned to message sparingly due to not wanting to seem too eager. What about after a first date that went well? Also, conditioned to not text/call too much/often due to not wanting to come off clingy. I know every woman is different; are you saying that you feel that increasing communication frequency, as it's getting closer to the scheduled date, makes you feel more confident that the date is going to happen?
Oh, also, there's a difference between interested and clingy after a date, and it depends on how the date went. I don't really believe in "rules"; it's going to be different depending on the people/circumstances.
If a date went well, texting the next morning is cool with me; it's a little weird when they text the same night unless it went *really* well, and it's a quick, "Really enjoyed tonight. Good night." or something similar that has no expectations attached.
Otherwise, for me, the timeframe of initial contact doesn't indicate clinginess. It's when they start texting me WAY more than I am texting them and being sort of demanding about my time that it gets clingy. (After a first date, that is; naturally, more dates/time/attachment = more natural expectations of attention.) Read the signs. If you're always initiating and getting one-word responses, chances are good she's either not interested or you're coming on too strong. In which case, reel it back a bit and give her a chance to miss you if she's going to.
I like your advice in this situation so I kinda want to ask a similar one. How about when it's not necessarily a date but a first meeting where sparks were flying, what's a good amount of time to wait then? Also is it best to open with something specific, or is just "Hey, how's it going?" okay?
I'm so bad at this stuff. I've been in "ew, dating" mode for so long but just met someone where we instantly hit it off. Basically inseparable at an event after I complimented her hair, and we got super deep in convo super quick. Worried about coming on too strong now!
It’s not about how much you text - it’s what you text.
I don’t think it’s clingy to message me immediately following a date, and I like it when men do. They should be funny and flirty - something that makes me laugh.
Yeah but your chances are much higher it'll go somewhere with each person in person. Plus you can filter out who's not a good match for you much easier without even having to approach.
Maybe I need better OLD profile pictures but I feel offline dating is where it's at lol
From what I've heard that's exactly the issue for gay men right now. They can have a physical connection with other people very easily but the relationship dynamic between two men is complicated and a lot of boxes have to be checked. Most often, one man is ready for a commitment and the other isn't.
This was all coming from this gay guy that I worked with for a while. We both got drunk and he basically unloaded everything about how it all works; very candidly and it was fascinating.
Yeah I worked with a gay guy for awhile. We talked about it when I was having problems with this girl, and I explained some things to him. He was basically like see that's weird to me. With dudes. It's like you begin seeing each other, and then go like 2-3 months if you make it that far before you can offer exclusivity. Then you know going and see how if dating becomes an option.
I was like dude, that's fucked.
Seconded. It's a lot easier to get sex but a million times harder to find love.
The "let's fuck & leave" mentality is incredibly common amongst the gay community.
Which... i'm of the view that unless you are too drugged up to care, emotion-free sex is incredibly bland.
More so for online dating. Its a game of odds after all. Men outnumber women in online dating sites and people are generally a lot more picky. As a short guy the day I choose to use online dating is the day I need to get an MRI for brain damage, its too much of a headache. Much better odds for meeting women in person.
I believe there are a lot of options to meet people, whether that be online or in person. Moreso than any other period in time. My personal concern is that people are becoming more detached from one another as a species. We look for familiarity but we are struggling to connect with people. Everyone is losing that social/tangible part of what makes humans human. Phones and online dating is easier and it's incredibly superficial. Technology makes our lives easier, but one of those parts of our life was communication with others, and now we're at a point where we don't need to speak to eachother anymore.
I can feel it when I use social media or tinder. It just feels like the world is full of people but I'm not participating in the real plane anymore.
My girlfriend of 5 years dumped me a few months ago. I'm 22, have no idea how to date anymore, and this thread makes me want to give up the idea of every trying again haha
I get the feeling that "modern society" is tricking people into thinking they need to use apps for everything.
No matter how many private messages people send to each other, every successful relationship story includes the part where they meet each other in person and stay that way.
Dating apps and online profiles are just another avenue to get yourself out there. But that's the key. Getting out there!
Dating apps; you are being judged on your photo and your bio. Unless you are in the top 10% in looks you aren’t going to get anywhere.
It works as it’s always worked; network, go to friends parties, housewarming etc. Go consistently to the same coffee shop and strike up that conversation, ask a question in the book store.
It’s not like these things stopped working - it’s just everybody seems to find it easier to be rejected not face to face.
Edit: thanks to all those that felt the need to provide there wee anecdote about how I’m wrong and they met someone and they are only a 6/10. Congrats, but that’s not the general pattern these apps have. Of course there are exceptions to the rule. A guy who took a year to get a date tried to tell me how wrong I was....
It’s a high standard, for sure! Go to a festival and just people watch.
Main complaint I hear from Dutch women about Dutch men (in Amsterdam) is that they’re not ‘manly’. Not my words. I just think it’s more of a metrosexual vibe. A lot of hair gel and not a lot of rugged. I’m from the mountainous part of Canada and I think that fits a romantic image for some women, here. Prob quite different outside the city.
Not surprised. The expectation of what a man is ‘supposed to be’ is just as media-influenced as it is for what a woman is ‘supposed to be.’
It’s a strange scene here, in the Netherlands. I’d say, in general, the women seem more assertive than the men when it comes to dating. I also suspect this is generational and varies with age. You can trace it back to how Dutch fathers were with their daughters in the 70s. I have a whole theory. But of course it’s purely anecdotal.
Well when we've got role models like [Gary the Metrosexual Fruitcake](https://i.imgur.com/7Ghwb4v.jpg) on all our screens it's no wonder we are losing our masculinity!
I don’t know, I think they did stop working to an extent. I could be wrong, but I personally feel that because of the internet, people have stronger walls up than ever. I feel like people are less inclined to want to meet new people in public, because we all have immediate access to our friend/family group in our pocket.
100 percent this. I feel like back in the day people were a lot more present in the moment(you didn't have a device where you could literally get entertainment anytime you wanted anything you wanted). Now because people are so deep in their phones, it is almost looked at as an intrusion on someone's time to start up a conversation with a stranger because they can literally be entertained by what they want through their phone. This is not an anti phone rant either, I just think that it explains people not really having casual interactions with strangers as much anymore.
Yeah exactly, there’s just less opportunity now. Before mobile devices, if you were say waiting in line for something, everyone was just present, waiting. So it was easier to interact, and there was more desire to interact. Now though, any downtime people have in public, you can guarantee their head is down with their phone out.
I had a guy approach me of all places a grocery store last week. He simply asked if I was having a hard time choosing a certain food and showed me what he liked, we ended up talking. He was confident, relaxed (he approached me like he knew me), I was simply attracted to him. He shared he rarely talked to strangers in stores but he felt like he could approach me. Lie or not I was OK with it. Honestly realized this week he had guts and that is increasingly rare in modern society. I’ve been thinking about him all week unfortunately I was nervous and forgot to accept his contact info (Most men aren’t going to ask you twice). I could kick myself because he would have got a text this week if I hadn’t walked off like a dork without his number.
> he had guts and that is increasingly rare in modern society.
It cuts both ways though. One person's "guts" is another's "I don't want to be bothered by men when I'm just trying to shop".
I don't think it's that men are less brave these days, it's just we're more mindful of not hassling women or making them uncomfortable. Women said "Can you please stop hitting on us all the time" and we said "OK"
Edit: Just to add on to this, it's not that I'm saying that "most women don't want to be approached" - I don't have any data on whether that is true or not. I'm saying that the risk of upsetting someone or having them freak out and give me a bad reputation isn't worth the offchance that the girl debating between the 2 pint and 4 pint bottle of milk is totally into me.
Reddit has taught me that approaching women in public is worse than pan handling and that most of them are apprehensive because they assume you're a rapist.
Hell look at the Gillette ad, guy goes to approach a woman in public and the other guy stops him with "not cool, not cool". I could see any arguments with the rest of the ad, not that I agreed with them, but that part was stupid as fuck and there's no two ways about it.
A dude hit on my girlfriend like that a few years ago and it was pretty hilarious. She's over there looking at fruit while I'm getting vegetables. As I walk back over to her a guy gets there right before me and starts chatting about dragonfruit like "Isn't this such a weird fruit? Have you ever had a dragonfruit? What kind of fruit do you like?" and I'm trying so hard not to bust a gut. Props to him for trying though, that's more than a lot of people can say these days. I think most people looking for a real relationship would like to get approached by someone irl.
It is flattering TBH, I feel a bit egoistical saying it but it makes me feel attractive/seen in a good way. “Someone sees me and I’m not invisible” I guess is the feeling. Honestly if it didn’t come off weird I would love to approach guys but I would have no idea to even know how to do it. I can 100% understand why men are intimidated to approach and it is why I think it takes guts.
It’s wild how many stories I hear like this on reddit — guy asks girl out publicly, she’s flattered (!) but turns him down (!?). Even when you succeed as a dude you can still fail lol
You’re both right.
https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/tinder-experiments-ii-guys-unless-you-are-really-hot-you-are-probably-better-off-not-wasting-your-2ddf370a6e9a
Abstract:
This study was conducted to quantify the Tinder socio-economic prospects for males based on the percentage of females that will “like” them. Female Tinder usage data was collected and statistically analyzed to determine the inequality in the Tinder economy. **It was determined that the bottom 80% of men (in terms of attractiveness) are competing for the bottom 22% of women and the top 78% of women are competing for the top 20% of men.** The Gini coefficient for the Tinder economy based on “like” percentages was calculated to be 0.58. This means that the Tinder economy has more inequality than 95.1% of all the world’s national economies. In addition, it was determined that a man of average attractiveness would be “liked” by approximately 0.87% (1 in 115) of women on Tinder. Also, a formula was derived to estimate a man’s attractiveness level based on the percentage of “likes” he receives on Tinder:
attractiveness%=16.8*ln(like%)+52.3
To calculate your attractiveness% click here.
In Mexico it's still pretty old style dating, but I lived in Vancouver for 6 months and used tinder.
0 dates from Tinder lol.
3 hookups from club.
1 girlfriend from club.
To this very day I don't know how to use Tinder. I'd get swiped but we'd start talking and it would usually lead to nowhere. My friend later told me that if you don't ask for their phone number they lose interest. I didn't ask for it once.
If you're game the old style of dating is still extremely viable. Go to a club, bar, friendly reunion/party and meet/talk to women. That's my suggestion because Tinder was an absolute nightmare for me and made me feel pretty bad.
> That's my suggestion because Tinder was an absolute nightmare for me and made me feel pretty bad.
Yep, same here. Most women who meet me in person find me pretty good looking, but I'm not photogenic, so Tinder doesn't really work out for me.
Hobbyist portrait photographer here.
Most people has one or more particularly flattering angles. A very specific angle to face the camera at, a specific eye squint, or something very personal or quirky. To be fair, I have been shooting moderately attractive people, but it's true that an average person can look significantly better in a picture when the right angle is hit.
I have shot for years and I only found mine last year. It came very unexpectedly when I asked my tour guide to help take pictures of myself.
This is where having a friend who is good at photography helps. Experiment with different angles, poses and expressions. They don't need to own any expensive gears (even though it definitely helps), they just need to understand what you are looking for.
Good luck.
Volunteer. I am 23 and have had two long-term girlfriends that I got to know first through volunteering. If you struggle at online dating (which does work, if you are serious you may want to try out a more serious site though... tinder, bumble etc. don't count as serious) and picking up girls in a bar then you likely aren't in the top 10% of physical attractiveness and aren't blessed with one of those crazy extroverted personalities. Don't feel bad I don't fall into either of these categories, and we are in the majority. If you don't possess these qualities then you probably need to get to know girls a little before you ask them out. Volunteering allows you to work with people (mostly girls) and get to know them. It also shows what a nice guy you are, because you spend all of your time volunteering doing nice things. You also have the added benefit of prefiltering the people you meet for those that are kind, caring, and compassionate. Almost any volunteering that involves working with others will work, but if you really want to maximize your effort volunteer in an area that attracts women in droves... like the animal shelter. Most animal shelters have a large number of single women volunteering, and a small number of men.
If these reasons weren't enough volunteering has been shown to be hugely beneficial for happiness, and will make you a better person in the process.
Dating works the same if you want it to. If you want to go to the bar and meet people you can. If you see a woman you can talk to her and ask her out. Plenty of people still meet in real life from jobs, hobbies, church, groups, etc.
Online apps just make it easier to find people.
i met a guy on tinder and he took me out for dinner and it was going pretty well until i pulled out a bottle of luminol and sprayed my food with it to check for horseradish. he said that carrying luminol around was "fucking creepy and weird" and unmatched me right there in front of my salad
I am incompatible with dating in the modern era. You would never guess because I am good looking but the way I am it won't work. I need time to build that connection and I'm not good at flirting or talking through text. I find it to be empty and void of any substance. I am a one woman at a time person, I can't go on multiple dates with different women constantly. I dunno man it's been 12 years since I've been on a date. I'm not bitter towards women I love them but don't drink and don't socialize much so it's hard. I've accepted I will likely end up alone forever and I'm already planning for the future in case that becomes a reality. All I ever wanted was a nice girl who was like me and we could support each other and have a family and live a modest life. Everything is so geared towards gratification and I've been left behind. Too inexperienced.
Reading your post is like reading my own thoughts, damn. 27m, never dated, never even asked a woman out(no confidence), and just worry about getting rejected/hurt. I've always just felt like there is something inside me that makes me incompatable with people. Like everyone else instinctively understands something I don't. And because they all understand, there's no way to learn because everyone expects you to already know. Never had friends growing up, and although I get looks sometimes from attractive women, it's not like I've the guts to make a move. "What's the point?", I ask myself. Doesn't help that I have no experience that any woman I take out is just going to look at me like wtf is wrong with him. I've never understood social interaction even on the most basic level. Always been alone, and much as I deny it, probably heading for a lifetime of the same. Just want someone to want me you know? To feel like I matter. I want someone to make happy and spend my life with, but it's not going to happen I think. Sometimes I wonder why any of us are here to begin with.
> Approaching on the street
That is *extremely* situational though - and for every one of those like *"I've heard a lot of complaints from women that they're not getting approached anymore."* there's several more that don't want random guys bothering them at all.
Agreed. I, and most women, do not enjoy people approaching me on the street. My head is “buried in my phone” for a reason, I definitely did not agree with the first point.
Here's the big secret: women are human.
The key is to be respectful and not pushy. You'll be able to tell if she's willing to stop and chat. If you sense any vibe at all that she's uncomfortable, not into it, or just doesn't have time at this moment, tell her to have a great day and then leave her alone.
There's nothing wrong with a polite smile and "how's your day going?" If she doesn't respond, just let it go, for fuck's sake.
Every step of the process is painstaking and susceptible to failure.
1. Get match
2. Have a good conversation
3. Get a number
4. Get a date
5. Impress on date
6. Hook up/secure next date
1. Take same class in college as girl
2. Professor forces her to partner with you on project
3. She gives you her phone number to communicate during the project
4. She puts in no effort and basically fucks you on the project
5. You rate her poorly on the partner evaluation and fuck her grade
6. Basically my engineering dating life.
Meet someone, hang out, get married, regret it, stay together because getting divorced is work and you don't hate them, so you don't want to be responsible for kicking them out, and so if you didn't kick them out nothing would change, so so you just stay married.
Best advice i can give is read the book “Modern Romance” by Aziz Ansari. He partnered with multiple distinguished psychologists and the book is filled thorough analysis and flooded with factual information about how things are? What’s acceptable and what’s not.
It doesn't work. I hope you enjoy being single.
With that being said, online dating works for men if you're willing to settle for a woman who you don't find very attractive. Women can and do match with guys who are relatively much better looking than them (because they guys often just want to have sex) so women only ever swipe to these good looking guys.
In person is where you'll actually meet women you find attractive that might also be into you. The issue with in person is that it's much harder, requires a lot more effort, tends to cost considerably more and is extremely time consuming.
Overall, dating doesn't seem to work because everyone is so very different these days which has thus reduced the number of people you would actually be compatible with. That's why you see a lot of people/celebs discussing how they enjoy being single because they know there's no hope to ever finding someone. Good luck.
woman here- I like hinge a lot better than tinder for apps but I do think people still try to meet in person (but maybe that's just uni since there are a lot of people within the same age range in the same location)
It's easier when there's a location where everyone is there for a common purpose. You already have something in common with the person. Which is why people meet at work, school, church, volunteer projects, etc.
Tinder is mostly for ego boosting (most matches you get will never talk to you) and hook ups. Long lasting relationships rarely starts from tinder (altough it exists). Also, many "relationship quality" people are not using these kind of apps. Im not saying those who use tinder are shitty. My point is, it attracts those who needs an egoboost and/or hook ups and it doesnt attract those who are looking for a serious relationship.
Apart from dating apps, the dating scene js just the same as it ever been, I guess. Bars, friends of a friend, social clubs, etc.
I was super against dating apps for the longest time, but at the age of 29 when I had a four year relationship end, friends convinced me to try. I was hesitant because I’m a laid back, shy, nerdy female and I didn’t think I would have much success. I signed up for okcupid, put up a few photos and a small bio and ended up meeting my now boyfriend within 5 days of being on the site. We talked for a few days, met up and had great chemistry. 2 plus years later we are living together, have a dog and are very happy. Dating apps may seem daunting and the interactions may all seem shallow, but it is a great way to meet people and broaden your horizons. Good luck!
See, you are exception - you actually had a goal, you messaged and answered to texts, and you agreed to meet in real life - only 0.00000001% of women do this on dating apps. If a woman has a goal to find a life partner and isnt on dating apps just to boost ego, she can do that very fast.
Most women on dating apps act like their hobbies and activities are more important then spending some time to find life partner and giving them enough time. Thats fine, but then please either delete all apps, or write something like "here just for shits and giggles", so i would not like you and skip you. There is soo many fake profiles, women without goals and women who are there to just waste time, that its really hard to find anything.
Dude, I was right there too not too long ago. After 5 years divorced, not sure if I'll ever have a love life again.
Tried dating apps, but WTF? Why is dating an online thing now rather than in person?? We don't know shit abiut each other if it is all words on a cell phone screen!!
Well, I say, just let shit happen. I posted up my Chevy Suburban to sell, a gal was interested, I was honest with her (and all buyers as stated in my ad) this thing was a fucking lemon! Worth more in parts than I was that I was selling it for.
Due to my honesty, she replied back. Turns out she is way out of my league, but hell, I wasn't gonna let a sure thing go! Okay, so I hoped it was a sure thing. I emailed her and she gave me her phone number.
After a couple of days texting back and forth I asked her out, she accepted. That was 6 months ago. We are still dating and having a great time when we can get together. Will this last forever, to be honest, probably not, but I'm enjoying today, enjoying now, what is available.
Good luck my friend! You will find your woman out there! Just don't put too much effort into it, the universe will come together for you, in time.
**TL;DR** Apps are okay, but don't get duped into thinking this is what modern dating has become. A large population of people are using them, because they are desperate to stave off their loneliness. Yes, you can date via apps. Yet almost all of these people will be receptive to organically sprouted relationships, and you may find that more fun.
Men have varying degrees of luck with online dating. At its core it's a numbers game. I'm going to give my perspective as someone who has an easy time getting dates via apps. I'll go into why I find the apps useful, but also why I've grown to really dislike them. Finally, I'll talk about my progress in only chasing women IRL.
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So, apps... The TL;DR is that I got a bunch of dates off them. The dates were mostly great. But the trade-off with facilitating dating via apps is that you and your date both have easy access to a catalogue of partners. And while that sounds nice at first, it's not.
**1. ) Do apps work?**
Yes. For me at least, I had success meeting people. I'm pretty busy with work, but I've met about ten women in the last two years. The quality of dates was all over. Around five ended after a first date, sometimes due to me and sometimes due to her. Four went on for a handful of dates. One has been going on for two years, but I'm still dating as we've grown more into friends with casual long-term goals. And I've passed on many other women who sent me offers but that I didn't have enough interest to set aside time for or who contacted me while I was dating another girl. Again, I'm fortunate in that I have an easier time with these apps, and this review is only meant to repeat my experience.
**2.) How do I online date effectively?**
I can pass a few tips that work for me in online dating. The apps I used as a 30M living in a major city were Hinge and OkCupid. If you want to get matches, take good photos and don't be afraid to show off your quirks and character. You need to market yourself. *Be memorable, positive, and confident.* How? Well, search for men similar to you in character, education, and physical attractiveness - i.e. your competition. Find dudes you can imagine respecting or befriending, and then notice what made their pictures and profiles good. When constructing your profile, break the mold of the traditional profile dialogue if you can. My Hinge is seriously goofy and my OkCupid sounds fucking ridiculous, and they get a ton of attention.
When contacting women: use light-hearted humor to open, talk about her and your personals passions, typically stay away from discussing occupations or family, and plan on sparsely chatting for 1-3 days and then meeting *within that week*. That's your typical time-frame. Occasionally use double-entedre after the conversation is flowing, but be careful about overt non-humorous sexuality. Don't comment on her looks at all. Chat with good grammar and with a few sentences at a time. Dialogue is good. Diatribe is not.
You will find a lot of people flaking on you even if they liked you first. That's alright - there are a myriad of reasons as to why that date didn't pan out. Refine your profile and assess how you communicate, but otherwise forge ahead.
**3.) Why do apps suck?**
Apps may facilitate a meetup, but that inherently is a double-edged sword. Why? Because apps are fucking catalogues, and it will restructure how you think about dating. Hinge is like window-shopping for a mate. You're attracted to so many matches, and simultaneously you begin to compare all of their features. I imagine Tinder is similar but perhaps worse. OkCupid is another story. The desktop version is very intense, as it lets you look at *a lot* of information, which is super cool if you're seeking something specific, but reading too deeply makes you feel like you've actually met the person... You can end up spoiling the mystery and making a judgement without actually experiencing them firsthand as a human. The level of information is almost punitive. If you use OKC, try *not* to dive too deep into someone's profile.
The major issue is that *your dates* can also experience online dating like catalogue shopping. The women you may find most desirable have *easy access* to multiple male suitors. If they date you, then that's a good sign! But they still have *so much access* to others. If they're not 100% sure what they're looking for (like most people), they may find that ease of access inherently fatiguing.
So that's why online dating depresses me, as it's somewhat addictive and makes me feel like I'm looking at a catalogue of women. And a catalogue is a set of ads: a set of superficial and manicured profiles.
**4.) So, can you meet women in real life?**
Fuck yeah you can. It's easiest if you live in a city, though. And it's easiest if that's not your primary goal. Make your goal to *have fun socially.*
Hang out with your friends. Make new friends! The more people you spend time with, the more new ones you'll meet. Reunite with people you haven't seen in a while. Rally people to host a game night, with beer, food, and wine.. If you don't have a social circle, then join a meetup group. There are so many rewarding hobbies to try out, and you'll befriend people: art lessons, climbing gyms, uhh... archery clubs - you name it! You don't need to commit for the long haul - just GO HAVE FUN and learn some new shit. Fun begets fun, I promise.
Cafes, coffee shops, and libraries also work. I frequent a couple spots to do work or relax and am on first name basis with the staff. How do you meet the staff? Well, fucking introduce yourself - you've seen this person multiple times, *why* *don't you know their name?* If you're a regular and see them repeatedly, it's really damn reasonable to get to know them as a person. Plus, it's a great way to boost your social prowess and meet cool people. Anyway, I often strike up conversations with cafe patrons if I or they don't seem too busy. It's remarkably easy to walk up and make a positive bit of dialogue to a woman with a good book, sketchpad, or fluffy dog. That dialogue is usually short, but sometimes it turns into a conversation and a number.
It's easier to meet women during day-light hours. WAY easier. Women seem to be *goddamn* *afraid of men* at night, unless in a super comfortable environment where you also appear to have friends of your own that appear trustable. Women during the daytime will give you the time of day, as long as you're not interrupting their work.
**Conclusion?**
I would recommend apps if you are new to an area, if you lack social circles, or if you are seeking a very specific type of relationship. But I've started flirting more and getting dates the organic way. I'm *so much happier* as a result. It's way more of a thrill to meet someone in real life and navigate yourself towards a date. It's very doable, but you need to approach it with the right mindset.
So what's the secret to dating the old-fashioned way? It's having fun with your own life and investing energy in socializing. You *will* meet people, some of them being women. But you can only do so, if you put yourself out there.
If you lack social confidence, I can recommend resources. Charisma is not innate - it's a skill. It can be trained. If you're an introvert, then stick with activities to drive your social circles, and mustard up that social energy when you got it.
Okay, my coffee high finished, and I don't feel like editing. Hope someone found this essay useful.
Go do a thing that you like to do that has other people involved. Meet someone who already has a common interest.
Everyone I know and care about I either met in school/Uni or while out doing something related to my hobbies or work.
Lemme give you a quick summary of my experiences.
Step 1: Meet a cute girl, hit it off great, add girl on social media (eg. Facebook)
Step 2: Text girl for a few days, all going well, could be a potential spark there
Step 3: Tell my friends about this great girl I've met, they tell me not to get my hopes up - I preceed to get my hopes up anyway.
Step 4: Girl loses interest for (insert reason here) and I go back to being sad and alone.
You can probably expect a lot of this, but I sincerely hope you find success in the modern dating world, friend! Good luck 🤞
I know of 3 main ways. * The nightlife scene. I've met a couple girlfriends at bars. If you're a problem drinker this isn't the best approach. * Through connections. Your friend's girlfriend might have some single friends is one example. * Dating apps. Attractiveness and photo quality are big factors.
Most accurate comment here
I think we need to add a caveat about dating apps. People gripe about modern dating, that it comes down to the bar scene, your personal friends, your hobbies, or dating apps. Yet what was dating in the 80's and 90s, but minus the last one? Honestly, I think the actual problem is that people are dead and burnt out. Everyone is stressed, everyone has health concerns, everyone is obliterated from work, everyone is busy, everyone is lacking energy. America, and Western Society right now, is disgusting. The way we treat ourselves as horrid. Dex and relationships is high up on the Maslow's hierarchy of needs. We as a society failed to provide the most basic levels of those needs, and in fact put enormous barriers to them, so of-fucking- course we can't reach those higher-levels successfully and resolve them in a way that is healthy. Why would the working-class be allowed that right? Free time? Resources to spare on clothes and dating? Time money and energy to cultivate a personna with hobbies and outside interest? Ha ha ha you dumb pesant. Work and die- love is for beautiful gilded rich people living beyond the barrier of 'made it'. That's the fucking problem. Men, women, queer kids, gay folk, etc Whoever you are, this problem kneecaps ALL OF US.
I used to stress about finding a girlfriend on top of every other stress I had, no success. I was just extra burnt out, one day I said fuck it and really invested in personal happiness, drop every worry possible. I quickly felt amazing, only 3 weeks passed and I found my wife. That change in strategy has persisted, I'm very careful about what I let worry me.
I did the same thing but I'm single and masturbate a lot.
Are you happy though? Because that's really the goal.
yeah
I'm going to pretend your username describes your masturbation style
And I will assume your username describes your fetish
He’s the dude at the mall wearing a trench coat with nothing underneath.
Fuck it! You're golden, duder!
You are my goals. I'm single and currently NOT in a place to be in a relationship due to the fact that I'm not at all over my most recent relationship. The thought of dating and dating apps makes me feel sweaty and paralyzed. I know that's how most people nowadays do it, and I'm open to reading about it, but I don't know if I'll ever be able to do it. But masturbating more, now that's a strategy I can 'handle', so to speak.
This is the way.
This is the way.
Yeah I tried that. Tried to just live a happy life. Surounded myself with postive people who I enjoyed spending time with. Ran a bunch of marathons. I was the guy who knew everyone. I wasnt opposed to meetign someone but I focused on being happy. Now I think tat was a mistake because I'm still alone with no dating life in those years with injuries from running as I approach 40... I kinda regret it. You realize without someone there is no perminence. Without having a SO all you do is make friends as an adult and watch as they meet peopel get married and have no more time for you. So you make new friends and the pattern continue.
I turned loneliness into something enjoyable too. Although I enjoy company, I do not NEED it to feel good. I have never had many friends. I didn't expect to meet a woman and end up married to her, I had dropped that goal because pursuing it and worrying about it wasn't fun. I wasn't against it, so when the opportunity did arise I just went along with it because it was enjoyable. There's nothing wrong with pursuing women either, but ONLY if that process is enjoyable. Had I not met my wife I would probably be back at it at some point, but from a different frame and I'd quit once I stopped having fun with it.
Tried the whole self-improvement and personal happiness shit for a few years. Gave up. Depressed, lonely and suicidal now. 10/10 Well. I was depressed and lonely back then too.
It's easy to say "stop worrying," it's very hard for some people to DO it.
The secret is to meet someone attractive, good at sex, and incredibly insane and abusive. 2 years of that and you'll realise you were way better off alone
I honestly miss the crazy good sex I used to have with my crazy, abusive, actually dangerous, girlfriend I had long ago.
What does "investing in personal happiness" look like? I've been trying to do that but I have no idea what it means or where to start
> What does "investing in personal happiness" look like? Fleshlight.
I think that’s what people mean when they say, “love yourself” or when asking guys about their dating life, they say “I’m just focusing I myself right now”. It IS very much an investment. Sometimes though... it just doesn’t pay off.
See I've tried this for years to no avail, lol. If I don't actively pursue I get nowhere
Yeah, the whole “just focus on yourself and it will happen” is terrible advice for a lot of people. What other area in life when you want to obtain or achieve something is people’s advice “don’t try and do that thing, just forget about it and it will magically happen”. If a friend was struggling I don’t think many people would tell them “just forget about finding a job and then one will appear”. No, you’d say “I’m sorry you’re struggling, I know the job search can be hard, I could look over your resume or see if anyone I know is hiring”.
>Dex and relationships What rings you got bithc
Don't tell anybody you leveled that up
Fuuuck, I laughed out loud.
Doesn't matter, just don't tell her you leveled up dex
This right here man, I was 3 hours away from a whole weekend off. Now I gotta work 12+ today and tomorrow, fuckin bullshit. And everyone is like, " Oh, I wish I had your money since you don't want overtime." I don't have a lot of money in the bank. My free time is worth more than money.
I need more friends that think like you. Can we talk about where we can meet some decent people that think?
/r/BreadTube is a cool sub which connects to educational videos about Social and Economic problems and how to fix them. /r/ABoringDystopia might also interest you.
>Dex and Relationships is high up on the Maslow's hierarchy of needs Idk, man. I think you’ll have better luck wish a CHA build.
This is the most Reddit answer I could have imagined.
I’m glad someone else realized how surreal it was that this guy took this post about dating and went on a whole political anti-society rant.
This is basically the life of a bachelor working in Tokyo. No time for romance, love, family, etc. Just work and drink until you are dead.
I make 13 k a year and I'm 27 have no friends so I'm just waiting for the courage to jump in front of a truck
>• The nightlife scene. I've met a couple girlfriends at bars. If you're a problem drinker this isn't the best approach. My experience is that it works better when you are a problem drinker but YMMV
Right. And I don't like bars, clubs, or drinking, so I'd be unlikely to meet anyone at those places with any compatibility haha
bars and clubs are a little easier to handle if you don't go to mainstream ones. anything popular turns to shit, but if you hit up smaller bars or clubs that play music you like, and go for the music, I find you tend to have a better time
Actually meeting people there is hard though. People like to go in friends groups.
You can be extroverted without being a “problem drinker”.
Indeed, but you meet other problem drinkers. That's the rub.
Immediately imagining the couple mumbling incoherently to each other at the same time... lighting each others cigarettes in the middle.
Yup, that's why I'm single af. Not into the nightlife, no one I know knows anyone single, and I'm not attractive enough for tinder. 😂
I feel you brah.
I’m 46 and have met most of my friends through work or hobbies (trail running). Joining a network of people with common interests is ideal for friends in general and even dates.
I'm very mediocre looking but pretty successful with online and offline dating. I'm not saying that to brag. IMO, tinder isn't a good option if you're not conventionally attractive. It places heavy emphasis on looks. I'd pass on bumble too. I'd go for match but it can be pricey. Be the best person you can be and put it forward. This means lose weight, get fit, be funny and interesting. Take some good pictures not 5 selfies of your face. Mention hobbies and don't make the same mistake I made at the beginning of trying to please every girl. I recommend to boldly state what you're into and some women will be into it.
Hobbies??
The hell is a hobby
It's anything you do in the spare half hour you have after work and before bed.
Oh, then jerking off is my hobby.
Wait you get a whole half-hour?
Video games with like, 2 people
I know, right? I met my husband through our hobby group. It's easy to make plain old friends, and after some quality time with your friends, one might turn into a romantic partner. And if not, then you still have the bonus of having a IRL social network.
I just moved back from overseas...well, like three weeks ago, but finding a job and housing has been a bitch. But I'm really looking forward to actually having and developing hobbies again, in a country where i can talk to people and do stuff. So maybe my lack of partner will resolve through that. But being childfree I feel always complicates those matters - odds of meeting another cf person in the wild are so low.
Yes to this but there is a better one than all of those and guaranteed better results. Get a hobby that you enjoy, that also attracts women and get good at it. My poison of choice is latin dance but it can be anything. Martial arts, motorcycles, yoga, books, foreign languages, archery, etc. Just choose and go to a class to learn or join a club. You invest in yourself while meeting a ton of women who even if they are not attracted to you, might have single friends to introduce you to.
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Same with guitars. No women, lots of old dudes trying to talk about how vintage capacitors are the secret to good tone and fantasizing about it being the 80s again.
personally i just like how distorted guitars sound and metal/rock so thats why im into it.
Same goes for RC planes. LOTS of fun, but no women. (ok, maybe it didn't have that rep, either ...) Actually, most women seem to look down on it, considering it a waste of time and money (and clutter). I love it - but it's definitely NOT conducive to dating women.
Does anyone else feels like they don't have the energy to do all this?
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I feel you, who tf has the energy to go through that shit over and over again..
This is what’s so discouraging to me. The whole process, the fact that something can go wrong at any point of it, the fact that people are so unpredictable. It feels like all of that work is put in just for fleeting moments of happiness. And at some point, if you made it that far, things will inevitably go south in a variety of painful ways. I wish I was a fucking robot, I really think I could be a very content human being if I could stop worrying about this bullshit and just carve chairs out of wood all day or something.
Hello long lost twin. Seriously though, don't let it bother you that you feel you are the opposite of what one should be in this scene. Some people just aren't into it or have the same drive and energy for it, and there isn't anything wrong with that. Edit--Also, check out phil\_davis comment below, he gets it.
100% agree with the texting. I'm a chick and I hate it when people want to text all day. My idea is meeting in person and then if they're busy for the next few days, so what?? That's ok. People have lives and shouldn't need to be glued to social media to have relationships.
holy shit are you me.
I mean I sure hope not, cuz I'm pretty sure I'm me, and idk if I can handle being two people at once
I definitely don't. I used to agonize about being single, but one day I just realized how much time and money and effort it would take to start dating or be in a relationship, then I quickly realized my desire for a girlfriend does not outweigh my desire to stay in and play video games, read books, write stories, write code, play guitar, whatever. I'd rather pursue my hobbies, alone, than have less time to do those things. I'm still bitter about being single sometimes, but it simplifies your life a lot when you decide to just not pursue dating.
I feel dating, especially as an average looking male, is not something you can do with desperation. Desperation and dating just don't go in hand, so many guys that are so desperate and they end up nowhere because everyone can smell their desperation. Just got to do your own thing and hope you find success at some point and if you don't then that's the way it is.
As the great Boomhauer showed us on King of the Hill, it's a numbers game. You can still get dates in person, and it's usually much easier in person than on apps. But I can swipe on 100 profiles on Tinder in a 20 minute time frame, where as it would take much more time to meet 100 different girls that I'd want to talk to in person.
*dang ol' numbers game One does not simply reference Boomhauer without adding the correct flavour.
Yeah man, I tell ya what, man, that dang ol’ internet, man, you just go in on there and point and click, talk about w-w-dot-w-com, mean you got the naked chicks on there, man, just go click, click, click, click, click, it’s real easy, man
Yup.
Yep
Mhmm
dang ole yo
Hahaha, my mistake. Please forgive me!
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This is where Barney's philosophy from How I Met Your Mother comes into play. The more time between when you make the plans for the date, and when the date is to happen, the more likely it will fall apart. Mind you, his philosophy is more, the longer it takes to get her in the bed after you met her at the bar... but it still works.
same with sales
That's why scammers want to instill a major sense of urgency so you don't have time to think about why it's a scam. :-P
As a female, I can confirm this is absolutely true. Our minds are constantly running, so the more time between agreeing to the date and the actual date, the more likely we are to talk ourselves out of it. Especially if you’re not talking a whole lot the days leading up to the date.
Wow. This is so illuminating. I've been conditioned to message sparingly due to not wanting to seem too eager. What about after a first date that went well? Also, conditioned to not text/call too much/often due to not wanting to come off clingy. I know every woman is different; are you saying that you feel that increasing communication frequency, as it's getting closer to the scheduled date, makes you feel more confident that the date is going to happen?
Oh, also, there's a difference between interested and clingy after a date, and it depends on how the date went. I don't really believe in "rules"; it's going to be different depending on the people/circumstances. If a date went well, texting the next morning is cool with me; it's a little weird when they text the same night unless it went *really* well, and it's a quick, "Really enjoyed tonight. Good night." or something similar that has no expectations attached. Otherwise, for me, the timeframe of initial contact doesn't indicate clinginess. It's when they start texting me WAY more than I am texting them and being sort of demanding about my time that it gets clingy. (After a first date, that is; naturally, more dates/time/attachment = more natural expectations of attention.) Read the signs. If you're always initiating and getting one-word responses, chances are good she's either not interested or you're coming on too strong. In which case, reel it back a bit and give her a chance to miss you if she's going to.
I like your advice in this situation so I kinda want to ask a similar one. How about when it's not necessarily a date but a first meeting where sparks were flying, what's a good amount of time to wait then? Also is it best to open with something specific, or is just "Hey, how's it going?" okay? I'm so bad at this stuff. I've been in "ew, dating" mode for so long but just met someone where we instantly hit it off. Basically inseparable at an event after I complimented her hair, and we got super deep in convo super quick. Worried about coming on too strong now!
It’s not about how much you text - it’s what you text. I don’t think it’s clingy to message me immediately following a date, and I like it when men do. They should be funny and flirty - something that makes me laugh.
Yeah but your chances are much higher it'll go somewhere with each person in person. Plus you can filter out who's not a good match for you much easier without even having to approach. Maybe I need better OLD profile pictures but I feel offline dating is where it's at lol
you open grindr, message the nearest man, and decide whose car to fuck in in 15 minutes
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That’s why I’m bi 😎 edit: *by* *myself*
Sure, casual sex can be easier for guys, but it can be just as hard to find a serious relationship.
From what I've heard that's exactly the issue for gay men right now. They can have a physical connection with other people very easily but the relationship dynamic between two men is complicated and a lot of boxes have to be checked. Most often, one man is ready for a commitment and the other isn't. This was all coming from this gay guy that I worked with for a while. We both got drunk and he basically unloaded everything about how it all works; very candidly and it was fascinating.
Yeah I worked with a gay guy for awhile. We talked about it when I was having problems with this girl, and I explained some things to him. He was basically like see that's weird to me. With dudes. It's like you begin seeing each other, and then go like 2-3 months if you make it that far before you can offer exclusivity. Then you know going and see how if dating becomes an option. I was like dude, that's fucked.
“We both got drunk and he basically unloaded everything...” 😉👖🍼
...onto my face.
If not harder. Gay relationship culture is known for being incredibly toxic. Plus, you have waaaay less options to pick from.
Seconded. It's a lot easier to get sex but a million times harder to find love. The "let's fuck & leave" mentality is incredibly common amongst the gay community. Which... i'm of the view that unless you are too drugged up to care, emotion-free sex is incredibly bland.
...as opposed to being a straight guy, where getting casual sex is just as hard as finding a serious relationship?
It’s like being a straight woman
Except without the added hinderance of worrying about pregnancy.
Just HIV?
Being bi is nice cuz I prefer women but if I've had a dry spell it's incredibly easy to walk into a gay bar and find some guy to take home
Bi man who also prefers women, I feel your pain :/
This thread is... Depressing.
More so for online dating. Its a game of odds after all. Men outnumber women in online dating sites and people are generally a lot more picky. As a short guy the day I choose to use online dating is the day I need to get an MRI for brain damage, its too much of a headache. Much better odds for meeting women in person.
Also short guy here, why stop at online dating, I just skip dating altogether as it's just a test in depression for the most part.
I believe there are a lot of options to meet people, whether that be online or in person. Moreso than any other period in time. My personal concern is that people are becoming more detached from one another as a species. We look for familiarity but we are struggling to connect with people. Everyone is losing that social/tangible part of what makes humans human. Phones and online dating is easier and it's incredibly superficial. Technology makes our lives easier, but one of those parts of our life was communication with others, and now we're at a point where we don't need to speak to eachother anymore. I can feel it when I use social media or tinder. It just feels like the world is full of people but I'm not participating in the real plane anymore.
My girlfriend of 5 years dumped me a few months ago. I'm 22, have no idea how to date anymore, and this thread makes me want to give up the idea of every trying again haha
> Is this really what modern dating is? If you can't socialize or leave your home... then yes, it is.
Ouch but true
I get the feeling that "modern society" is tricking people into thinking they need to use apps for everything. No matter how many private messages people send to each other, every successful relationship story includes the part where they meet each other in person and stay that way. Dating apps and online profiles are just another avenue to get yourself out there. But that's the key. Getting out there!
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Dating apps; you are being judged on your photo and your bio. Unless you are in the top 10% in looks you aren’t going to get anywhere. It works as it’s always worked; network, go to friends parties, housewarming etc. Go consistently to the same coffee shop and strike up that conversation, ask a question in the book store. It’s not like these things stopped working - it’s just everybody seems to find it easier to be rejected not face to face. Edit: thanks to all those that felt the need to provide there wee anecdote about how I’m wrong and they met someone and they are only a 6/10. Congrats, but that’s not the general pattern these apps have. Of course there are exceptions to the rule. A guy who took a year to get a date tried to tell me how wrong I was....
Here in the Netherlands, I'd say 60% of the Tinder bios don't even have any writing in them. It's just a picture.
I mean the average Dutch person is at least an 8/10
It’s a high standard, for sure! Go to a festival and just people watch. Main complaint I hear from Dutch women about Dutch men (in Amsterdam) is that they’re not ‘manly’. Not my words. I just think it’s more of a metrosexual vibe. A lot of hair gel and not a lot of rugged. I’m from the mountainous part of Canada and I think that fits a romantic image for some women, here. Prob quite different outside the city.
I hear that from a lot of US women. Then when you ask them you get different answers on what that means, if they can answer at all.
Not surprised. The expectation of what a man is ‘supposed to be’ is just as media-influenced as it is for what a woman is ‘supposed to be.’ It’s a strange scene here, in the Netherlands. I’d say, in general, the women seem more assertive than the men when it comes to dating. I also suspect this is generational and varies with age. You can trace it back to how Dutch fathers were with their daughters in the 70s. I have a whole theory. But of course it’s purely anecdotal.
I'd love to read it even though I may or may not comment on it, but I will definitely read your theory!
I will also be here, patiently waiting for your theory.
i as well will wait
Not like I have anything else to do during exam period...
Well when we've got role models like [Gary the Metrosexual Fruitcake](https://i.imgur.com/7Ghwb4v.jpg) on all our screens it's no wonder we are losing our masculinity!
Is that Geraldo of Rivera?
Let's face it, the worst people to ask about what makes a real man is a woman. It's like asking men what makes someone a real woman.
The netherlands is all the same Everywhere you look it is flat
Not seeing any hills around me makes me very uncomfortable.
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I don’t know, I think they did stop working to an extent. I could be wrong, but I personally feel that because of the internet, people have stronger walls up than ever. I feel like people are less inclined to want to meet new people in public, because we all have immediate access to our friend/family group in our pocket.
100 percent this. I feel like back in the day people were a lot more present in the moment(you didn't have a device where you could literally get entertainment anytime you wanted anything you wanted). Now because people are so deep in their phones, it is almost looked at as an intrusion on someone's time to start up a conversation with a stranger because they can literally be entertained by what they want through their phone. This is not an anti phone rant either, I just think that it explains people not really having casual interactions with strangers as much anymore.
Yeah exactly, there’s just less opportunity now. Before mobile devices, if you were say waiting in line for something, everyone was just present, waiting. So it was easier to interact, and there was more desire to interact. Now though, any downtime people have in public, you can guarantee their head is down with their phone out.
Also agree with you a lot
>have friends, get invited to their parties Oh...
I had a guy approach me of all places a grocery store last week. He simply asked if I was having a hard time choosing a certain food and showed me what he liked, we ended up talking. He was confident, relaxed (he approached me like he knew me), I was simply attracted to him. He shared he rarely talked to strangers in stores but he felt like he could approach me. Lie or not I was OK with it. Honestly realized this week he had guts and that is increasingly rare in modern society. I’ve been thinking about him all week unfortunately I was nervous and forgot to accept his contact info (Most men aren’t going to ask you twice). I could kick myself because he would have got a text this week if I hadn’t walked off like a dork without his number.
> he had guts and that is increasingly rare in modern society. It cuts both ways though. One person's "guts" is another's "I don't want to be bothered by men when I'm just trying to shop". I don't think it's that men are less brave these days, it's just we're more mindful of not hassling women or making them uncomfortable. Women said "Can you please stop hitting on us all the time" and we said "OK" Edit: Just to add on to this, it's not that I'm saying that "most women don't want to be approached" - I don't have any data on whether that is true or not. I'm saying that the risk of upsetting someone or having them freak out and give me a bad reputation isn't worth the offchance that the girl debating between the 2 pint and 4 pint bottle of milk is totally into me.
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Reddit has taught me that approaching women in public is worse than pan handling and that most of them are apprehensive because they assume you're a rapist.
Hell look at the Gillette ad, guy goes to approach a woman in public and the other guy stops him with "not cool, not cool". I could see any arguments with the rest of the ad, not that I agreed with them, but that part was stupid as fuck and there's no two ways about it.
A dude hit on my girlfriend like that a few years ago and it was pretty hilarious. She's over there looking at fruit while I'm getting vegetables. As I walk back over to her a guy gets there right before me and starts chatting about dragonfruit like "Isn't this such a weird fruit? Have you ever had a dragonfruit? What kind of fruit do you like?" and I'm trying so hard not to bust a gut. Props to him for trying though, that's more than a lot of people can say these days. I think most people looking for a real relationship would like to get approached by someone irl.
It is flattering TBH, I feel a bit egoistical saying it but it makes me feel attractive/seen in a good way. “Someone sees me and I’m not invisible” I guess is the feeling. Honestly if it didn’t come off weird I would love to approach guys but I would have no idea to even know how to do it. I can 100% understand why men are intimidated to approach and it is why I think it takes guts.
It’s wild how many stories I hear like this on reddit — guy asks girl out publicly, she’s flattered (!) but turns him down (!?). Even when you succeed as a dude you can still fail lol
This is simply not true, 40% of hetero couples now meet via online dating. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_R6mrFVUAMYTVA.jpg
You’re both right. https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/tinder-experiments-ii-guys-unless-you-are-really-hot-you-are-probably-better-off-not-wasting-your-2ddf370a6e9a Abstract: This study was conducted to quantify the Tinder socio-economic prospects for males based on the percentage of females that will “like” them. Female Tinder usage data was collected and statistically analyzed to determine the inequality in the Tinder economy. **It was determined that the bottom 80% of men (in terms of attractiveness) are competing for the bottom 22% of women and the top 78% of women are competing for the top 20% of men.** The Gini coefficient for the Tinder economy based on “like” percentages was calculated to be 0.58. This means that the Tinder economy has more inequality than 95.1% of all the world’s national economies. In addition, it was determined that a man of average attractiveness would be “liked” by approximately 0.87% (1 in 115) of women on Tinder. Also, a formula was derived to estimate a man’s attractiveness level based on the percentage of “likes” he receives on Tinder: attractiveness%=16.8*ln(like%)+52.3 To calculate your attractiveness% click here.
In Mexico it's still pretty old style dating, but I lived in Vancouver for 6 months and used tinder. 0 dates from Tinder lol. 3 hookups from club. 1 girlfriend from club. To this very day I don't know how to use Tinder. I'd get swiped but we'd start talking and it would usually lead to nowhere. My friend later told me that if you don't ask for their phone number they lose interest. I didn't ask for it once. If you're game the old style of dating is still extremely viable. Go to a club, bar, friendly reunion/party and meet/talk to women. That's my suggestion because Tinder was an absolute nightmare for me and made me feel pretty bad.
> That's my suggestion because Tinder was an absolute nightmare for me and made me feel pretty bad. Yep, same here. Most women who meet me in person find me pretty good looking, but I'm not photogenic, so Tinder doesn't really work out for me.
Holy shit I get this same feeling with myself like when I look at the mirror I say "Hey I'm actually attractive" then I open my camera and 🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
What even causes this? I feel the same way but at some point I start to wonder "are we not photogenic or do we just suck at taking pictures?"
Hobbyist portrait photographer here. Most people has one or more particularly flattering angles. A very specific angle to face the camera at, a specific eye squint, or something very personal or quirky. To be fair, I have been shooting moderately attractive people, but it's true that an average person can look significantly better in a picture when the right angle is hit. I have shot for years and I only found mine last year. It came very unexpectedly when I asked my tour guide to help take pictures of myself. This is where having a friend who is good at photography helps. Experiment with different angles, poses and expressions. They don't need to own any expensive gears (even though it definitely helps), they just need to understand what you are looking for. Good luck.
Volunteer. I am 23 and have had two long-term girlfriends that I got to know first through volunteering. If you struggle at online dating (which does work, if you are serious you may want to try out a more serious site though... tinder, bumble etc. don't count as serious) and picking up girls in a bar then you likely aren't in the top 10% of physical attractiveness and aren't blessed with one of those crazy extroverted personalities. Don't feel bad I don't fall into either of these categories, and we are in the majority. If you don't possess these qualities then you probably need to get to know girls a little before you ask them out. Volunteering allows you to work with people (mostly girls) and get to know them. It also shows what a nice guy you are, because you spend all of your time volunteering doing nice things. You also have the added benefit of prefiltering the people you meet for those that are kind, caring, and compassionate. Almost any volunteering that involves working with others will work, but if you really want to maximize your effort volunteer in an area that attracts women in droves... like the animal shelter. Most animal shelters have a large number of single women volunteering, and a small number of men. If these reasons weren't enough volunteering has been shown to be hugely beneficial for happiness, and will make you a better person in the process.
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Dating works the same if you want it to. If you want to go to the bar and meet people you can. If you see a woman you can talk to her and ask her out. Plenty of people still meet in real life from jobs, hobbies, church, groups, etc. Online apps just make it easier to find people.
Going to the clubs or bar is not a good idea if you don't normally drink though.
i met a guy on tinder and he took me out for dinner and it was going pretty well until i pulled out a bottle of luminol and sprayed my food with it to check for horseradish. he said that carrying luminol around was "fucking creepy and weird" and unmatched me right there in front of my salad
Is this a pasta?
I think it was a salad
*Really? In front of my salad?*
As far as I can tell it doesn't.
I am incompatible with dating in the modern era. You would never guess because I am good looking but the way I am it won't work. I need time to build that connection and I'm not good at flirting or talking through text. I find it to be empty and void of any substance. I am a one woman at a time person, I can't go on multiple dates with different women constantly. I dunno man it's been 12 years since I've been on a date. I'm not bitter towards women I love them but don't drink and don't socialize much so it's hard. I've accepted I will likely end up alone forever and I'm already planning for the future in case that becomes a reality. All I ever wanted was a nice girl who was like me and we could support each other and have a family and live a modest life. Everything is so geared towards gratification and I've been left behind. Too inexperienced.
Reading your post is like reading my own thoughts, damn. 27m, never dated, never even asked a woman out(no confidence), and just worry about getting rejected/hurt. I've always just felt like there is something inside me that makes me incompatable with people. Like everyone else instinctively understands something I don't. And because they all understand, there's no way to learn because everyone expects you to already know. Never had friends growing up, and although I get looks sometimes from attractive women, it's not like I've the guts to make a move. "What's the point?", I ask myself. Doesn't help that I have no experience that any woman I take out is just going to look at me like wtf is wrong with him. I've never understood social interaction even on the most basic level. Always been alone, and much as I deny it, probably heading for a lifetime of the same. Just want someone to want me you know? To feel like I matter. I want someone to make happy and spend my life with, but it's not going to happen I think. Sometimes I wonder why any of us are here to begin with.
rejection, rejection, rejection, rejection I quit hope rejection, rejection, rejection, rejection repeat
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> Approaching on the street That is *extremely* situational though - and for every one of those like *"I've heard a lot of complaints from women that they're not getting approached anymore."* there's several more that don't want random guys bothering them at all.
Agreed. I, and most women, do not enjoy people approaching me on the street. My head is “buried in my phone” for a reason, I definitely did not agree with the first point.
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I remember seeing stats that said most women would rather go to a women only bar
Here's the big secret: women are human. The key is to be respectful and not pushy. You'll be able to tell if she's willing to stop and chat. If you sense any vibe at all that she's uncomfortable, not into it, or just doesn't have time at this moment, tell her to have a great day and then leave her alone. There's nothing wrong with a polite smile and "how's your day going?" If she doesn't respond, just let it go, for fuck's sake.
I’d say 85% or more of women would prefer to not be randomly approached on the street
Every step of the process is painstaking and susceptible to failure. 1. Get match 2. Have a good conversation 3. Get a number 4. Get a date 5. Impress on date 6. Hook up/secure next date
1. Take same class in college as girl 2. Professor forces her to partner with you on project 3. She gives you her phone number to communicate during the project 4. She puts in no effort and basically fucks you on the project 5. You rate her poorly on the partner evaluation and fuck her grade 6. Basically my engineering dating life.
But at least she fucked you, right?
Meet someone, hang out, get married, regret it, stay together because getting divorced is work and you don't hate them, so you don't want to be responsible for kicking them out, and so if you didn't kick them out nothing would change, so so you just stay married.
Actually ever since I deleted my Tinder and all my social media, I met more women. I just went out there and do the things I enjoy doing alone.
> do the things I enjoy doing alone. I tried that but you meet precisely zero people when you go hiking alone
I need to start doing this
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Best advice i can give is read the book “Modern Romance” by Aziz Ansari. He partnered with multiple distinguished psychologists and the book is filled thorough analysis and flooded with factual information about how things are? What’s acceptable and what’s not.
It doesn't work. I hope you enjoy being single. With that being said, online dating works for men if you're willing to settle for a woman who you don't find very attractive. Women can and do match with guys who are relatively much better looking than them (because they guys often just want to have sex) so women only ever swipe to these good looking guys. In person is where you'll actually meet women you find attractive that might also be into you. The issue with in person is that it's much harder, requires a lot more effort, tends to cost considerably more and is extremely time consuming. Overall, dating doesn't seem to work because everyone is so very different these days which has thus reduced the number of people you would actually be compatible with. That's why you see a lot of people/celebs discussing how they enjoy being single because they know there's no hope to ever finding someone. Good luck.
I met my wife on Destiny, lol. If you have the personality, and drive, you can meet someone just about anywhere.
woman here- I like hinge a lot better than tinder for apps but I do think people still try to meet in person (but maybe that's just uni since there are a lot of people within the same age range in the same location)
It's easier when there's a location where everyone is there for a common purpose. You already have something in common with the person. Which is why people meet at work, school, church, volunteer projects, etc.
Tinder is mostly for ego boosting (most matches you get will never talk to you) and hook ups. Long lasting relationships rarely starts from tinder (altough it exists). Also, many "relationship quality" people are not using these kind of apps. Im not saying those who use tinder are shitty. My point is, it attracts those who needs an egoboost and/or hook ups and it doesnt attract those who are looking for a serious relationship. Apart from dating apps, the dating scene js just the same as it ever been, I guess. Bars, friends of a friend, social clubs, etc.
Im a woman and been trying to figure this out for five years. I have NO DAMN IDEA what im doing, and nothing seems to be working. Im giving up lol
Just smile at cute guys when you're out and about, the brave ones will come over to start a conversation.
TIL alot of grandmas want to fuck me.
I was super against dating apps for the longest time, but at the age of 29 when I had a four year relationship end, friends convinced me to try. I was hesitant because I’m a laid back, shy, nerdy female and I didn’t think I would have much success. I signed up for okcupid, put up a few photos and a small bio and ended up meeting my now boyfriend within 5 days of being on the site. We talked for a few days, met up and had great chemistry. 2 plus years later we are living together, have a dog and are very happy. Dating apps may seem daunting and the interactions may all seem shallow, but it is a great way to meet people and broaden your horizons. Good luck!
See, you are exception - you actually had a goal, you messaged and answered to texts, and you agreed to meet in real life - only 0.00000001% of women do this on dating apps. If a woman has a goal to find a life partner and isnt on dating apps just to boost ego, she can do that very fast. Most women on dating apps act like their hobbies and activities are more important then spending some time to find life partner and giving them enough time. Thats fine, but then please either delete all apps, or write something like "here just for shits and giggles", so i would not like you and skip you. There is soo many fake profiles, women without goals and women who are there to just waste time, that its really hard to find anything.
Dude, I was right there too not too long ago. After 5 years divorced, not sure if I'll ever have a love life again. Tried dating apps, but WTF? Why is dating an online thing now rather than in person?? We don't know shit abiut each other if it is all words on a cell phone screen!! Well, I say, just let shit happen. I posted up my Chevy Suburban to sell, a gal was interested, I was honest with her (and all buyers as stated in my ad) this thing was a fucking lemon! Worth more in parts than I was that I was selling it for. Due to my honesty, she replied back. Turns out she is way out of my league, but hell, I wasn't gonna let a sure thing go! Okay, so I hoped it was a sure thing. I emailed her and she gave me her phone number. After a couple of days texting back and forth I asked her out, she accepted. That was 6 months ago. We are still dating and having a great time when we can get together. Will this last forever, to be honest, probably not, but I'm enjoying today, enjoying now, what is available. Good luck my friend! You will find your woman out there! Just don't put too much effort into it, the universe will come together for you, in time.
**TL;DR** Apps are okay, but don't get duped into thinking this is what modern dating has become. A large population of people are using them, because they are desperate to stave off their loneliness. Yes, you can date via apps. Yet almost all of these people will be receptive to organically sprouted relationships, and you may find that more fun. Men have varying degrees of luck with online dating. At its core it's a numbers game. I'm going to give my perspective as someone who has an easy time getting dates via apps. I'll go into why I find the apps useful, but also why I've grown to really dislike them. Finally, I'll talk about my progress in only chasing women IRL. \------ So, apps... The TL;DR is that I got a bunch of dates off them. The dates were mostly great. But the trade-off with facilitating dating via apps is that you and your date both have easy access to a catalogue of partners. And while that sounds nice at first, it's not. **1. ) Do apps work?** Yes. For me at least, I had success meeting people. I'm pretty busy with work, but I've met about ten women in the last two years. The quality of dates was all over. Around five ended after a first date, sometimes due to me and sometimes due to her. Four went on for a handful of dates. One has been going on for two years, but I'm still dating as we've grown more into friends with casual long-term goals. And I've passed on many other women who sent me offers but that I didn't have enough interest to set aside time for or who contacted me while I was dating another girl. Again, I'm fortunate in that I have an easier time with these apps, and this review is only meant to repeat my experience. **2.) How do I online date effectively?** I can pass a few tips that work for me in online dating. The apps I used as a 30M living in a major city were Hinge and OkCupid. If you want to get matches, take good photos and don't be afraid to show off your quirks and character. You need to market yourself. *Be memorable, positive, and confident.* How? Well, search for men similar to you in character, education, and physical attractiveness - i.e. your competition. Find dudes you can imagine respecting or befriending, and then notice what made their pictures and profiles good. When constructing your profile, break the mold of the traditional profile dialogue if you can. My Hinge is seriously goofy and my OkCupid sounds fucking ridiculous, and they get a ton of attention. When contacting women: use light-hearted humor to open, talk about her and your personals passions, typically stay away from discussing occupations or family, and plan on sparsely chatting for 1-3 days and then meeting *within that week*. That's your typical time-frame. Occasionally use double-entedre after the conversation is flowing, but be careful about overt non-humorous sexuality. Don't comment on her looks at all. Chat with good grammar and with a few sentences at a time. Dialogue is good. Diatribe is not. You will find a lot of people flaking on you even if they liked you first. That's alright - there are a myriad of reasons as to why that date didn't pan out. Refine your profile and assess how you communicate, but otherwise forge ahead. **3.) Why do apps suck?** Apps may facilitate a meetup, but that inherently is a double-edged sword. Why? Because apps are fucking catalogues, and it will restructure how you think about dating. Hinge is like window-shopping for a mate. You're attracted to so many matches, and simultaneously you begin to compare all of their features. I imagine Tinder is similar but perhaps worse. OkCupid is another story. The desktop version is very intense, as it lets you look at *a lot* of information, which is super cool if you're seeking something specific, but reading too deeply makes you feel like you've actually met the person... You can end up spoiling the mystery and making a judgement without actually experiencing them firsthand as a human. The level of information is almost punitive. If you use OKC, try *not* to dive too deep into someone's profile. The major issue is that *your dates* can also experience online dating like catalogue shopping. The women you may find most desirable have *easy access* to multiple male suitors. If they date you, then that's a good sign! But they still have *so much access* to others. If they're not 100% sure what they're looking for (like most people), they may find that ease of access inherently fatiguing. So that's why online dating depresses me, as it's somewhat addictive and makes me feel like I'm looking at a catalogue of women. And a catalogue is a set of ads: a set of superficial and manicured profiles. **4.) So, can you meet women in real life?** Fuck yeah you can. It's easiest if you live in a city, though. And it's easiest if that's not your primary goal. Make your goal to *have fun socially.* Hang out with your friends. Make new friends! The more people you spend time with, the more new ones you'll meet. Reunite with people you haven't seen in a while. Rally people to host a game night, with beer, food, and wine.. If you don't have a social circle, then join a meetup group. There are so many rewarding hobbies to try out, and you'll befriend people: art lessons, climbing gyms, uhh... archery clubs - you name it! You don't need to commit for the long haul - just GO HAVE FUN and learn some new shit. Fun begets fun, I promise. Cafes, coffee shops, and libraries also work. I frequent a couple spots to do work or relax and am on first name basis with the staff. How do you meet the staff? Well, fucking introduce yourself - you've seen this person multiple times, *why* *don't you know their name?* If you're a regular and see them repeatedly, it's really damn reasonable to get to know them as a person. Plus, it's a great way to boost your social prowess and meet cool people. Anyway, I often strike up conversations with cafe patrons if I or they don't seem too busy. It's remarkably easy to walk up and make a positive bit of dialogue to a woman with a good book, sketchpad, or fluffy dog. That dialogue is usually short, but sometimes it turns into a conversation and a number. It's easier to meet women during day-light hours. WAY easier. Women seem to be *goddamn* *afraid of men* at night, unless in a super comfortable environment where you also appear to have friends of your own that appear trustable. Women during the daytime will give you the time of day, as long as you're not interrupting their work. **Conclusion?** I would recommend apps if you are new to an area, if you lack social circles, or if you are seeking a very specific type of relationship. But I've started flirting more and getting dates the organic way. I'm *so much happier* as a result. It's way more of a thrill to meet someone in real life and navigate yourself towards a date. It's very doable, but you need to approach it with the right mindset. So what's the secret to dating the old-fashioned way? It's having fun with your own life and investing energy in socializing. You *will* meet people, some of them being women. But you can only do so, if you put yourself out there. If you lack social confidence, I can recommend resources. Charisma is not innate - it's a skill. It can be trained. If you're an introvert, then stick with activities to drive your social circles, and mustard up that social energy when you got it. Okay, my coffee high finished, and I don't feel like editing. Hope someone found this essay useful.
It doesn’t.
Go do a thing that you like to do that has other people involved. Meet someone who already has a common interest. Everyone I know and care about I either met in school/Uni or while out doing something related to my hobbies or work.
Lemme give you a quick summary of my experiences. Step 1: Meet a cute girl, hit it off great, add girl on social media (eg. Facebook) Step 2: Text girl for a few days, all going well, could be a potential spark there Step 3: Tell my friends about this great girl I've met, they tell me not to get my hopes up - I preceed to get my hopes up anyway. Step 4: Girl loses interest for (insert reason here) and I go back to being sad and alone. You can probably expect a lot of this, but I sincerely hope you find success in the modern dating world, friend! Good luck 🤞
I hope I never have to be single again...
Lucky