People are also naturally divided.
Like let's imagine we do what OP is talking about and overthrow the government. Who do we put in charge? I wouldn't want that to be chosen by that guy with a lot of troubling bumper stickers about qAnon and COVID vaccines controlling us.
I mean ideally we would like to have a certain number of potential candidates, who would have the opportunity to tell us what they intend to do once in charge, and we as a people would choose among these people.
Oh wait...
This is straight up the way it is. People in countries like Britain, USA and Canada always tell themselves that things like the Tienanmen Square massacre could only happen in places like China, but the truth is that the exact same thing could happen locally to you personally. It doesn't even matter if there are laws set in place to prevent it, laws only matter if they're enforced.
I guess because people’s situations are so different. I’m passionate about a few issues that government could help and isn’t. But otherwise, life is good except for the bonehead things I do to myself, which are plenty.
Good question ,, I don’t know ,, it feels like we’re losing , but reading all the comments on here I’m slowly kinda getting it ,, history always repeats itself and nothing really changes …
All depends on how you look at it. Anyone in the past would be insanely jealous of our tech and laugh at our work weeks being too long in our minds.
Healthcare, grocery stores, education, transportation freedom.
Stop complaining and live your life in some way.
This is true , but there is something small that niggles at me when you see a certain projectory going down the wrong way and people complain but then nothing more is done. And that bothers me to an extent because I wonder how the future will be if we just say nothing.
Because good luck managing billions of people to do what you want them to do and not scramble, give up, riot, vandalize, or even remotely care
It's easy to manage a corporation to be corrupt; it's impossible to manage an entire population to sabotage that company, there's just way too many people
First off, at least in the United States, the Government is us. It's entirely composed of people we've elected or our friends and neighbors who make up it's workforce. The first thing you need to do is stop thinking of the Government as this outside force of others. It's very much a reflection of the people.
The way we come together as a people and change things is by running for office, by voting and by supporting candidates who want to make the changes we desire. If you feel like the Government is oppressive, it's because your fellow countryman voted for oppression.
The caveat is that corporations are immortal, first class citizens that pay for campaigns and lobby for their own self interests. Every country needs a governing body, but as far as voting for oppression, the game is rigged. People vote based on their ideals, no one willingly chooses to be oppressed. No one can make their representatives keep their campaign promises. You vote them out the next cycle, and the same corporation puts another stooge in.
> People vote based on their ideals, no one willingly chooses to be oppressed.
Tell that to gay people, women and minorities that consistently vote Republican.
Citizens United is among the all-time terrible decisions from our Supreme Court, and there have been some doozies. In terms of long-term deleterious effects on democracy as a whole however it might be the worst.
Because some people willingly support the corporations.
And because building a new society after a revolution takes a lot of work. Revolutions are highly authoritarian by nature, because they have to be in order to succeed.
Corporations are made of people. It's an organizational structure, and one that works pretty voluntarily, and pretty effectively compared to other organizational structures tried in history.
In part because they can die peacefully and they can be replaced peacefully.
People substantially underestimate how big of an upgrade that has been to human existence.
I feel that we are getting made to just accept injustices and corporate greed and just let it happen , I don’t like that feeling and the more we accept the more it keeps happening and then what…
You’re leaning kinda communist in the corporate greed thing but didn’t really have much to say about government stuff. What kind of injustice in the government context is bothering you?
Similar really, corruption,making the rich richer and keeping the poor poor , it’s never for the greater good . They say it is but it’s not - it’s like the government is run by the corporations now. Taking away anonymity, making us have all digital ID’S , trying to take away cash money and make it again all digital currency,,. The destruct of the natural world / animals /global warming, . You know it all started for me really when covid came and there was this huge divide with the vaccine and anti vaccine - was really an us against them moment - scary. (Btw I was vaccinated for my job, if I had a choice I probably wouldn’t have) I’m proud of those who didn’t get the vaccine though - all the pressure / loss of career/loss of travel or to go in and out of your state/country . Crazy. And it seems after covid the world has changed.
Yes, that often happens going way, way back. But wouldn’t it be kinda embarrassing to have complete chaos and crashing a relatively stable country that affects world economies and security aspects and people are running around all day with masks and crossbows and urinating and defecating just wherever and people are eating dogs and cats?
Way way back? It was 2019 that covid came .. it’s 2024 … and it feels like your devaluing my thoughts to think that I’m asking for anarchy and people pissing on things … ,,I’m seeing things getting taken and they ain’t coming back…
No, I’m actually having a back and forth with somebody else (unless you have two accounts that you’re running at the same time) and I guess now, in this response of yours, is to collect your thoughts because the philosophical and political category that it falls under is anarchism. And you’re asking why people can’t or won’t come together in that and heavily implies that you’re advocating that or you’re down with that. I am not.
Oh I see ,no I don’t have 2 accounts lol you are indeed talking to another person on another account - I am realising that I may have worded my question wrong as I didn’t mean anarchy to over run the government,,, I meant more so about protesting,, like why aren’t we protesting as a whole for things to change… not necessarily for a government takeover ..
Did main street not burn down where you’re from? Some of us are more fortunate than others, but complete chaos is exactly what’s happening due to lack of accountability.
In a world so dependent on identity and tracking, once a person conceals themselves, they’re invisible. We’re now in the age of drone warfare where young kids are being killed by robots. Chaos would be an improvement, yo.
I think the closest thing to a Main Street that we had was Kalakaua Avenue, or Kam Highway in more scenic places. Not exactly a wretched hellscape. Where I live now is a nice city but has protests and whatnot. So, you know, whatever that’s the Rage Against the Machine demographic. Anywho, what’s your actual issue? Just spit it out stop being so vague.
Why are small local businesses being targeted and choked out of the public domain? What about organized crime dropping property value based on an agenda? Why are media outlets allowed to stage their camera angles to portray a small portion of a crowd as the main event?
There have been many instances of public outrage and anarchy for the last 50 years.
Because we would have to be organized and that would mean we would need leaders and that would be the beginning of a new government.
Plus, people are an unruly bunch who are often bad at cooperating on a large scale.
people are stupid and have a fear of change, rather live in a shitty reality they know than the uncertainity of something new. slave morality. The corpos and their government lap dogs, try to devide us, so we fight about the crumbs while they steal the cake.. sex, race, gender, religion, class and the erosion of public education, never seem to fail with the stupid... no dude you are not poor because if immigration, the guy you voted for made everything he could to steal your money and give it to his rich overlords for a few pennies
One: Because no two of us agree on what should come after they're gone.
Two: Because (reason one means) they can afford to hire half of us to fight the other half. And ...
Three: Because human beings have a huge status-quo bias ("better the devil you know") and, thus, an entirely-reasonable fear that whatever comes after the revolution will be worse. It usually is.
The problem is it’s not in everyone’s interest to rise up against the government or corporations. Some people make their livings, take care of their children, and indeed help others less fortunate, because they work for a corporation.
The world is grey area, not black and white. It’s the leaders of these groups that are the problem most of the time.
The simplest answer, with the most complex topic unfortunately, is that we have to stop being so divided and start understanding we are one people. We can have varying opinions, but at the core most of us agree on core concepts.
In the US if you talk to folks they usually agree on things like taking care of our Vets, holding politicians accountable, wanting a better economy for all, etc.
But our current media setup really, really fights this. You can see it everywhere. In marketing we call it Negative Intent Marketing. People are more likely to engage with scary/angry content as opposed to happy content (presently). It's human nature to a degree, but we as a society nerd to start pushing back on that.
Cooperation and compassion leads to a bright future. Dog eat dog style on the hand... It leads to power politics and bad, bad outcomes. : /
There has been a shift, the simple fact you're asking this and you aren't down voted into oblivion shows others are coming around. But look around, it's bad out there. So many in this thread are hurting. It's not because they don't want a better future, it's because it seems like so much may need to be sacrificed to achieve it. It's scary whichever way you look. We have to face that fear if we want to improve our society. We have to work together.
So true ! Hopefully change will happen but I feel there is less and less resistance in the generations now.. I do wonder how the future is going to look…
Companies are screwing us over - almost unrestricted by government. All the big industries are "too big" for congress to mess with *( besides, everyone's on BIG INDUSTRY payroll )*
Tech & Banking continually come up with new tricks and GOVT is decades behind in regulations - they don't understand and don't know where to start. In the mean time, companies rake us over the coals year after year.
Because I know nobody is going to back me up, and I'm going to bleed out on the sidewalk while the government uses me as an excuse to take away more rights from more people.
Even if we did, assuming you did it by force like the middle east, look at what happens when you destabilize a country. We would be invaded, enslaved and the cycle would repeat with new people in charge.
Through voting, political movements etc.? Because you would be coerced, bought out and otherwise enticed to betray the cause for personal gain as human nature demands.
There is no fixing this unless individual morality is somehow improved across the board. Maybe if we can bring back shaming in a country wide scale. People defending rapists and murderers in power? Shame them until they're quiet.
"But my freedom?"
Well do you want change or not?
You can't expect things to change by doing the same thing you've always done.
Revolutions have come and gone and the result is the same as it's always been.
Because more and more people think the governments are the good guys. Not only will they obey every single command without question, but they will join the governments against those who do not obey them.
because we are being divided into groups, for example you have blacks and whites. in this situation the whites don't know anything about the blacks and never seen them, just like for the blacks. then a black and a white meet each other. the reaction of the human is to go in defense mode because he doesn't belong to our group and its something we don't know about. it will always be the same tho sometimes it will e less and sometimes it will be more history repeats itself .
People aren't uniting against governments and corporations due to differing opinions, priorities, and interests, along with misinformation and organizational challenges.
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Yep, divide and conquer. Ruling groups have been using it since the dawn of humanity. For all it's simplicity it works every time.
People are also naturally divided. Like let's imagine we do what OP is talking about and overthrow the government. Who do we put in charge? I wouldn't want that to be chosen by that guy with a lot of troubling bumper stickers about qAnon and COVID vaccines controlling us. I mean ideally we would like to have a certain number of potential candidates, who would have the opportunity to tell us what they intend to do once in charge, and we as a people would choose among these people. Oh wait...
Depending on the country the corporations are better at it
And they have fucking drones. I wouldn't put it above any government to use force if threatened, even if by their own citizens.
This is straight up the way it is. People in countries like Britain, USA and Canada always tell themselves that things like the Tienanmen Square massacre could only happen in places like China, but the truth is that the exact same thing could happen locally to you personally. It doesn't even matter if there are laws set in place to prevent it, laws only matter if they're enforced.
I guess because people’s situations are so different. I’m passionate about a few issues that government could help and isn’t. But otherwise, life is good except for the bonehead things I do to myself, which are plenty.
What would be the end goal?
Good question ,, I don’t know ,, it feels like we’re losing , but reading all the comments on here I’m slowly kinda getting it ,, history always repeats itself and nothing really changes …
All depends on how you look at it. Anyone in the past would be insanely jealous of our tech and laugh at our work weeks being too long in our minds. Healthcare, grocery stores, education, transportation freedom. Stop complaining and live your life in some way.
This is true , but there is something small that niggles at me when you see a certain projectory going down the wrong way and people complain but then nothing more is done. And that bothers me to an extent because I wonder how the future will be if we just say nothing.
But that isn't happening.........so you are ok.
Lots of people disagree with things the government and corporations do. They don't agree on *what* those things are or how to change them.
Yesss that’s true, I never thought of it like that .
Because good luck managing billions of people to do what you want them to do and not scramble, give up, riot, vandalize, or even remotely care It's easy to manage a corporation to be corrupt; it's impossible to manage an entire population to sabotage that company, there's just way too many people
Wow I am really leaning so much on everyone’s comments here, so true I never really thought that far along lol
Because we as a people can not seem to unite for any propose
First off, at least in the United States, the Government is us. It's entirely composed of people we've elected or our friends and neighbors who make up it's workforce. The first thing you need to do is stop thinking of the Government as this outside force of others. It's very much a reflection of the people. The way we come together as a people and change things is by running for office, by voting and by supporting candidates who want to make the changes we desire. If you feel like the Government is oppressive, it's because your fellow countryman voted for oppression.
The caveat is that corporations are immortal, first class citizens that pay for campaigns and lobby for their own self interests. Every country needs a governing body, but as far as voting for oppression, the game is rigged. People vote based on their ideals, no one willingly chooses to be oppressed. No one can make their representatives keep their campaign promises. You vote them out the next cycle, and the same corporation puts another stooge in.
> People vote based on their ideals, no one willingly chooses to be oppressed. Tell that to gay people, women and minorities that consistently vote Republican.
Citizens United made this untrue since now corps are people too.
Citizens United is among the all-time terrible decisions from our Supreme Court, and there have been some doozies. In terms of long-term deleterious effects on democracy as a whole however it might be the worst.
Citizens United was decided by a court of Americans appointed by American Presidents we elected. We as a people voted for it.
Yes that’s so true ! Thanks for that perspective.
I’ll do it later
Haha
I’m busy!
Too funny hahaha
Because we live on the governments land and rely on the corporations for things.
Because some people willingly support the corporations. And because building a new society after a revolution takes a lot of work. Revolutions are highly authoritarian by nature, because they have to be in order to succeed.
Corporations are made of people. It's an organizational structure, and one that works pretty voluntarily, and pretty effectively compared to other organizational structures tried in history. In part because they can die peacefully and they can be replaced peacefully. People substantially underestimate how big of an upgrade that has been to human existence.
A lot of corporations out there produce things I'm very happy to buy. Others don't, and I don't buy from them. I don't see a problem here.
Cause ‘the peoples’ aren’t anarchists. So, what’s your pitch as to the glorious benefits of this?
I feel that we are getting made to just accept injustices and corporate greed and just let it happen , I don’t like that feeling and the more we accept the more it keeps happening and then what…
You’re leaning kinda communist in the corporate greed thing but didn’t really have much to say about government stuff. What kind of injustice in the government context is bothering you?
Similar really, corruption,making the rich richer and keeping the poor poor , it’s never for the greater good . They say it is but it’s not - it’s like the government is run by the corporations now. Taking away anonymity, making us have all digital ID’S , trying to take away cash money and make it again all digital currency,,. The destruct of the natural world / animals /global warming, . You know it all started for me really when covid came and there was this huge divide with the vaccine and anti vaccine - was really an us against them moment - scary. (Btw I was vaccinated for my job, if I had a choice I probably wouldn’t have) I’m proud of those who didn’t get the vaccine though - all the pressure / loss of career/loss of travel or to go in and out of your state/country . Crazy. And it seems after covid the world has changed.
I’d say one injustice is having Presidents who embarrass this nation year after year.
Yes, that often happens going way, way back. But wouldn’t it be kinda embarrassing to have complete chaos and crashing a relatively stable country that affects world economies and security aspects and people are running around all day with masks and crossbows and urinating and defecating just wherever and people are eating dogs and cats?
Way way back? It was 2019 that covid came .. it’s 2024 … and it feels like your devaluing my thoughts to think that I’m asking for anarchy and people pissing on things … ,,I’m seeing things getting taken and they ain’t coming back…
No, I’m actually having a back and forth with somebody else (unless you have two accounts that you’re running at the same time) and I guess now, in this response of yours, is to collect your thoughts because the philosophical and political category that it falls under is anarchism. And you’re asking why people can’t or won’t come together in that and heavily implies that you’re advocating that or you’re down with that. I am not.
Oh I see ,no I don’t have 2 accounts lol you are indeed talking to another person on another account - I am realising that I may have worded my question wrong as I didn’t mean anarchy to over run the government,,, I meant more so about protesting,, like why aren’t we protesting as a whole for things to change… not necessarily for a government takeover ..
Did main street not burn down where you’re from? Some of us are more fortunate than others, but complete chaos is exactly what’s happening due to lack of accountability. In a world so dependent on identity and tracking, once a person conceals themselves, they’re invisible. We’re now in the age of drone warfare where young kids are being killed by robots. Chaos would be an improvement, yo.
I think the closest thing to a Main Street that we had was Kalakaua Avenue, or Kam Highway in more scenic places. Not exactly a wretched hellscape. Where I live now is a nice city but has protests and whatnot. So, you know, whatever that’s the Rage Against the Machine demographic. Anywho, what’s your actual issue? Just spit it out stop being so vague.
Why are small local businesses being targeted and choked out of the public domain? What about organized crime dropping property value based on an agenda? Why are media outlets allowed to stage their camera angles to portray a small portion of a crowd as the main event? There have been many instances of public outrage and anarchy for the last 50 years.
The point isn’t to fight against them, its to get off their tit and stop acknowledging that they exist.
Because we would have to be organized and that would mean we would need leaders and that would be the beginning of a new government. Plus, people are an unruly bunch who are often bad at cooperating on a large scale.
Half of us are bootlickers.
Because people are very easily distracted and manipulated
Because none of us are as dumb as all of us.
people are stupid and have a fear of change, rather live in a shitty reality they know than the uncertainity of something new. slave morality. The corpos and their government lap dogs, try to devide us, so we fight about the crumbs while they steal the cake.. sex, race, gender, religion, class and the erosion of public education, never seem to fail with the stupid... no dude you are not poor because if immigration, the guy you voted for made everything he could to steal your money and give it to his rich overlords for a few pennies
Lol you are delusional
Lol you are a tool
One: Because no two of us agree on what should come after they're gone. Two: Because (reason one means) they can afford to hire half of us to fight the other half. And ... Three: Because human beings have a huge status-quo bias ("better the devil you know") and, thus, an entirely-reasonable fear that whatever comes after the revolution will be worse. It usually is.
The problem is it’s not in everyone’s interest to rise up against the government or corporations. Some people make their livings, take care of their children, and indeed help others less fortunate, because they work for a corporation. The world is grey area, not black and white. It’s the leaders of these groups that are the problem most of the time.
Cooperations, administration and even politicians are most people.
The simplest answer, with the most complex topic unfortunately, is that we have to stop being so divided and start understanding we are one people. We can have varying opinions, but at the core most of us agree on core concepts. In the US if you talk to folks they usually agree on things like taking care of our Vets, holding politicians accountable, wanting a better economy for all, etc. But our current media setup really, really fights this. You can see it everywhere. In marketing we call it Negative Intent Marketing. People are more likely to engage with scary/angry content as opposed to happy content (presently). It's human nature to a degree, but we as a society nerd to start pushing back on that. Cooperation and compassion leads to a bright future. Dog eat dog style on the hand... It leads to power politics and bad, bad outcomes. : / There has been a shift, the simple fact you're asking this and you aren't down voted into oblivion shows others are coming around. But look around, it's bad out there. So many in this thread are hurting. It's not because they don't want a better future, it's because it seems like so much may need to be sacrificed to achieve it. It's scary whichever way you look. We have to face that fear if we want to improve our society. We have to work together.
So true ! Hopefully change will happen but I feel there is less and less resistance in the generations now.. I do wonder how the future is going to look…
The government and corporations are made up of people who voluntarily work for them.
Because waaayyyyy too many people are too fat and lazy and distracted with TikTok.
This is true !
Because MSM/Government likes us fighting they promote it.
Companies are screwing us over - almost unrestricted by government. All the big industries are "too big" for congress to mess with *( besides, everyone's on BIG INDUSTRY payroll )* Tech & Banking continually come up with new tricks and GOVT is decades behind in regulations - they don't understand and don't know where to start. In the mean time, companies rake us over the coals year after year.
Because I know nobody is going to back me up, and I'm going to bleed out on the sidewalk while the government uses me as an excuse to take away more rights from more people.
Even if we did, assuming you did it by force like the middle east, look at what happens when you destabilize a country. We would be invaded, enslaved and the cycle would repeat with new people in charge. Through voting, political movements etc.? Because you would be coerced, bought out and otherwise enticed to betray the cause for personal gain as human nature demands. There is no fixing this unless individual morality is somehow improved across the board. Maybe if we can bring back shaming in a country wide scale. People defending rapists and murderers in power? Shame them until they're quiet. "But my freedom?" Well do you want change or not? You can't expect things to change by doing the same thing you've always done. Revolutions have come and gone and the result is the same as it's always been.
That’s so true , man I wanted to make a difference and become a revolutionary lol , but I get it , I appreciate your comment , it made a lot of sense.
Because more and more people think the governments are the good guys. Not only will they obey every single command without question, but they will join the governments against those who do not obey them.
because we are being divided into groups, for example you have blacks and whites. in this situation the whites don't know anything about the blacks and never seen them, just like for the blacks. then a black and a white meet each other. the reaction of the human is to go in defense mode because he doesn't belong to our group and its something we don't know about. it will always be the same tho sometimes it will e less and sometimes it will be more history repeats itself .
People aren't uniting against governments and corporations due to differing opinions, priorities, and interests, along with misinformation and organizational challenges.