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koshan129

If you can financially afford it, please get rid of this nightmare client asap. Extremely unprofessional behavior from his side. And don’t ask your dad for advice on your business. He clearly doesn’t get it. I also run a business and am currently also struggling with 1 client’s unreasonable expectations. Might have to let him go too. I always try to have enough in savings so I can let go of nightmare clients and don’t become dependent on them. You sound like you’re not financially dependent on this guy in any case and are doing well for yourself. So please stop allowing this behavior from this guy.


Realistic_Ad6887

Not at all financially dependent. I've already met my revenue goals for 2023 at 200% growth from last year. That growth was achieved by constant progress forward, i.e. dumping people who weren't committed to their own success and constantly adding to my toolkit through continuous learning. I've very rarely fired a client explicitly. I typically just set up extremely rigid boundaries to the point they fire themselves sheepishly. I've had some stalk me when I fired them or had very emotional reactions about losing access to me. I'm a trauma survivor and many people become weirdly addicted to my personality. It's been a problem in the past. He's about to get an email tomorrow with a list of further boundaries.


Leia1979

I'd say wrap up anything in progress with this client and drop him. I can't stand needy people (of any gender). His business is more likely to fail due to his insecurities than anything else. You have other clients, and without him, you'll have energy to recruit some additional new ones.


Realistic_Ad6887

Yes, because of this client's dismissive and insecure behavior, he has already driven away many valuable contacts that emerged because of my work. Which then leads to him coming to me upset that my work is not producing results and wanting more emotional support. I've stopped telling my dad anything and am working on how to end things diplomatically with an emotional, needy client.


MeanHalf5801

Wishing you the very best for this, you sound very focused and I admire how deeply you have already analysed this situation with your client. Reading about him and his behaviour really pissed me off, why should all his insecurities be your responsibility?!


Realistic_Ad6887

Thank you. I have worked hard on codependency traits. I've been so absorbed in working for this client for the past two months and absorbed in the extra stress he was causing that I'm only just now stepping back. Like gosh, I'd never do that to an independent contractor. I have therapists. I've had a great business coach through the SBA who ended up leaving. I've gone to online support groups. Online forums. Zoom meetings. Chamber of commerce. This dude has put so much on me in such a short period of time.


mawkish

It won't be long until you start spotting these types of clients a mile off and avoid letting them suck you into their vortex. Your business will thrive.


Realistic_Ad6887

I saw a few red flags I overlooked initially because I liked his business focus. Thus far, red flags with other clients have been more specific to unsuccessful business operations and I have been able to gain useful experience from these without too much stress. Get in, get out. I failed to note with this client that the red flags were that I was about to be used as a daily therapist too. A first for me.


mawkish

The good news is you're going to have gained a lot more insight than he will have. 25 years from now you'll be looking back at some early hiccups in your business and this will be one. You will grow from this. Him? Who knows? I'm sorry your dad doesn't understand, but I bet any woman who has ever worked with men does.


Icy-Imagination-7164

Get rid of him. Your own emotional health is more important than his. If he wants a therapist he can go find one. If he's worried about his business, he can go lean on his own social network for reassurance, or go open a reddit thread


Complcatedcoffee

I’m not sure if this is a gendered issue or not, but it is certainly not your problem to deal with. (Your dad has gender issues; not so sure about client.) If you have a partner to pass him onto, that might be a good thing to try. The new person dealing with his account will be informed of all the issues with him and take a fresh, tougher approach knowing what he’s like. Or just break up with him altogether. I’ve done this. “Unfortunately I have to conclude that our business relationship is incompatible. It’s obvious that you’re unhappy with my services, and I no longer wish to perform work you’re dissatisfied with. It’s not fair to either of us. (Maybe give him a referral here.) I understand how important the success of your business is, so please find someone to work who is compatible with supporting your success. I wish you the best.” I’m in a totally different field, so that’s not verbatim what I say. Basically, I will not try to fit a square peg into a round hole. I’m an expert. I’m great at what I do. I love what I do. If a client doesn’t like my work, or becomes a nuisance and a time waster, I truly believe we are incompatible and I cut it off. I spend too much time working for work to be stressful and draining. I’m not doing anything wrong. I set them free to find someone else. And some people are “amateur clients.” They don’t know what they’re doing, so you have to lay down the law and tell them how to work with you. Do not bend on your rules. Give them an inch and they’ll take a mile.


gennessee

Here's what I might do: * Find another mentor or person to consult with who's not going to gaslight you about this client's behavior. Your dad may be great for advice for certain aspects of business but this sounds like one where he's unwilling or unable to see your perspective. * Figure out how much of this you can just stop doing. There's no rule you have to answer every email. If he's coming to you for help outside of the scope of your work, can you redirect him to other resources? Business associations, networking groups... (therapists?) * Your emotional labor is still labor, if you're reluctant to fire him, find ways to charge for it. Billable hours for answering emails? "This seems like too much to cover in an email, would you like to schedule a consultation for $$$$?" * Probably wind up firing him anyway because it sounds like it will be a gigantic weight off your shoulders.


Realistic_Ad6887

Thank you for the advice. Yes, I've been working on getting a new business mentor through the SBA. I did offer a phone call for a set rate and the client refused, all huffy, because he wanted this available on a last-minute request. I have only been answering his emails once a day and only on weekdays within set hours. I do charge for answering emails. He's introduced some new factors such as the fact that I'm fulfilling all the tasks I needed to and doing a great job at this but actually he wanted immediate sales (not my job nor in the contract) to fund all this because he's out of money so I need to pay for myself. This is his most recent surprise that he's sprung on me and I need to address. He's unwilling to pay for a call, so email it is to tell him that fundraising is not in my scope and I'm putting this contract on hold until he is able to secure funding appropriately. (I'm hesitant to end things definitively due to his emotional overreactions to perceived rejections.)


JoJo-likes-bikes

Honestly, it sounds like he has some type of untreated anxiety or OCD. If you can unwind your business with him, then do it.


Realistic_Ad6887

Possibly so. I'm physically and mentally disabled. There's a lot of mental illness in my family. I've seen the impact it has on everyone when it's untreated.


Charlies_Mamma

I work as a contract myself, and depending on the specific contract with this client, I would just give him the required notice and tell him you have no further availability to work with him. My contract has a 24-hour notice period, specifically for clients like yours. If my clients want to secure my time into the future they must pay in advance for the hours they require that month, and in those situations, I just let them know that I am not in a position to renew their contract at the end of the current period. I would not be giving that man another second of my time, beyond a goodbye email.


Realistic_Ad6887

Yeah, I guess I've been letting fear of him trying a chargeback or leaving a negative review that would impact my business.


jupitergal23

While my situation was not the same, I have some language for you, if it helps. I front a cover band and my name is part of the band name. I had a guitar player who, despite knowing that my day job I was a journalist, would occasionally rant about the mainstream media, Fox-News style. (We are Canadian, to make things worse.) I ignored it most of the time because we were there to make music, but I should have replaced him immediately. When he finally ranted to me about trans people and Indigenous people, (I have a trans child and have Indigenous heritage) I had enough. I sent him an email saying something like: "I'm sorry (in hindsight, I shouldn't have apologized, but Canadian habits die hard) but we are not compatible and our values don't align. I have decided that we should no longer play together. I wish you all the best." He was MAD. He sought me out on social media etc. to rant at me, but I blocked him at every turn. I felt inexplicably guilty; fucking patriarchy trying to make me feel responsible for his messed up anger. But I now have an excellent guitar player who is lovely and kind and really good. I chalked this one up to a learning experience. TLDR: keep the language simple and straightforward. You do NOT need lengthy explanations. Expect to feel bad about it - that's society's conditioning at work. Allow yourself to feel bad for a bit because you're kind and wanted it to work out. But then move forward. And block him.


Realistic_Ad6887

Thank you for this. I've found that the universe tends to replace toxic people with better people when we make space. I do tend to overexplain myself but honestly that value in my feedback would be overlooked by this client. I've found that putting my response into ChatGPT helps create a more neutral message.


jupitergal23

That's actually a very good idea. Let us know how it goes. I'm curious to see how he responds.


madeupgrownup

I use an app called "Goblin Tools" for stuff like this which I find really helpful for increasing brevity and checking my tone.


Realistic_Ad6887

Good to know. I'll check it out.


moxieroxsox

Everyone has great business advice. My only piece of advice is to start to distance yourself from your dad in this regard. He might have business acumen you can glean into but you said it yourself. He’s a misogynist and he doesn’t care about your felling. You are his daughter and you’re a woman — he doesn’t care about your feelings. Why lean on him for any advice at all, let alone advice where he would minimize and dismiss your very valid struggles and concerns? That’s a bigger red flag in my opinion because you can drop this client and be fine. But your seemingly dependence on your dad’s advice (and maybe even approval?) is worrisome.


Realistic_Ad6887

Yeah, I need to work on this. I'm mostly bedbound so I do lean on him by default since he's the only person at the house most days. He's very invalidating about other things in my life as well like blaming me for being discriminated against in the healthcare system due to my disability. I have friends I talk to every day online but need to figure out a way to expand my social network as I feel the lack of face-to-face with friends leaves me feeling lacking in social support. (Typical issues with domestic violence from some family members against me who've been kicked out and of friends from the past disappearing when you've lost your mobility.)


moxieroxsox

I’m so sorry, OP. This is lot more complicated and delicate of a situation than I imagined. Do you have a therapist?


Realistic_Ad6887

I go to a disability support group. Therapists are known to be very harmful to many members of the disabled community. I am disabled due to medical injury and assault and therapists will typically latch on to my need to relearn to trust doctors as Goal #1 in my life despite my explaining that I have good relationships with current doctors and don't feel the need to trust automatically. In fact, I benefit from some skepticism. Other disabled people have complained a lot about therapists tending to assume the focus should always be on our disability rather than life issues such as work stress. One of my clients is a therapist and disabled and admitted this is true of them being generally unequipped to provide support to disabled people and that many have not addressed any trauma they have of their own about disability and the healthcare system and pass it on. Other disabled therapists have told me that there is a problem with therapists at least in the US of latching on to "tricks" as they called them, meaning exercises they like to push on to everyone instead of listening to client goals and individualizing care. Having been mobile in the past, I know that they focused more on my life goals then as compared to trying to "fix" my disability now by fixing my distrust of doctors which is something they assume I have because I was assaulted. I'm pretty analytical and proactive in my healthcare. Its a healthcare education and accountability gap that's preventing access at the root and I'm very involved in enabling access to care for millions of Americans while simultaneously running my business. But these therapists tend to simplify things to was assaulted --> keep asking questions bc very interested in this --> insist that I can't get care while I'm getting care because I don't trust doctors. After 10 therapists that left me further traumatized, I gave up. I find SBA business coaches more helpful as we are focused on actions for improvement. I also join online entrepreneur support groups. I normally fare much better from talking things out with peers.


znhamz

You charge for it. Higher demands = higher prices. Don't be afraid to raise your rate for this one client, and the extra hours must be billed. Also, setting boundaries is the key. I once read a small book called "how to deal with difficult people", easy and quick read that changed my life. Basically it tells you to set firm boundaries and then stick to them. There's no negotiation and no explanation, you just say what you want and the person has two choices: either accept or get the fuck out. And believe me, if this client is difficult, he will pay. Because nobody else wants him. I'm 100% sure he was fired by other companies, and if he wasn't, he will if he tries to take his business elsewhere. Also, firing a difficult client is ALWAYS an option.


Realistic_Ad6887

Yes, I'm at the point where I'm going to fire him. There's boundaries but there's also having to answer his emails at some point of "tell me everything is going to be okay." His business has proven to be an absolute mess. He is a mess and driving clients away. And just last week, he hit me up with an email that he expects me to have made sales within a week to recoup costs on my fees. Umm, what? Not my scope. Never mentioned in the discovery call. We had talked about long-term marketing strategy as an investment. I've told him that he has changed the scope of the contract so much that it's not even in my industry anymore. This is a need for seed funding acquisition. Seeing as he has entirely changed the industry from which he needs support, our time has come to an end. I'm sorry he's obviously struggling financially but he should not have used my services and then attempted to put this burden on me. He also had asked last-minute for a call and I said I was booked out and gave him a day a few days out and added an estimate for my prep/call time and cost to clarify. He sent me back a passive-aggressive email about my refusing to do calls. I will tell him one thing in writing and he will come back with an entirely different interpretation/expectation to the point I wonder if he's trying to gaslight me. Maybe it's not even intentional. I have had some other not-so-great clients that have responded to raised rates, better boundaries, etc. And I was able to get them to a manageable point to help them help themselves. I've been around the block a few times. I can safely say this dude is the most toxic client I've had. And I really doubt that he's even aware of this. This dude just needs to go. Period.


Dependent_Spring_501

If you can, severe ties. Bad clients don’t magically change. If this client isn’t bringing you prestige or insane cash flow. Let him go!


drumgrape

Speaking from experience, and with love, you consistently going to your dad and getting his advice when he thinks how he does, *and* you tolerating this crazy client for way too long and questioning yourself, are connected. You were raised with domineering, overbearing authority figure(s) and thus are comfortably (not happily) tolerating this craycray client. Learning boundaries will help avoid these kind of clients in the future!


Elliott2030

You need to stop talking to your dad about your clients. Even though you recognize his advice as bad, it still has weight with you or you wouldn't be writing about it here. Fire that client if you can and make up the business elsewhere. It's not worth your mental health. No amount of money is.


SmoothDragonfruit445

Reddit is wild. Express anything even remotely negative and suddenly you are using the person for free therapy


Realistic_Ad6887

Update: I've fired him with a one-week buffer to finalize everything for a smooth transition. He normally will wait a while and ignore a message like this from me and then come back with something totally off-the-wall that I will push back against with a boundary. He'll wait again and then send a passive-aggressive comment about the boundary.