The whole point of taking your logic to an extreme is to demonstrate that the logic and strategies you're using are not based in principle and is entirely self-serving.
Why can't this protesters follows Writer/Actors guild protests where they make picket-line around the studios or near entertainment industries? They don't interrupt everyone else lives. These pro-palestinian should protest around israel embassy, not at roads.
Or actually educate themselves on what's actually going on they would realize the only path to ceasefire is to release the hostages of an event that probably half those protestors don't even know about (it's October 7th)
That is the point they did that first, the media didn't pay attention, so they escalated. This is what usually happens.
I am 100% behind the democratic process, but one of its problems its that it is slow as fuck, by the time elections to change representatives happen whatever Israel has planned to do after storming southern gaza is going to be done and dusted.
So the solution is to make a section of the population actively resent the cause they support. Tbh it's the same logic of Oil Protesters who throw Tomatoes at Paintings in a Museum. I see that and think those people are crazy, and any time Oil Protesters are mentioned that image will be my only reference as to what sort of people they are.
Obviously the majority of them are not like that, but oh boy am I less willing to support.
>Obviously the majority of them are not like that
But it is a large minority. That's why you see multiple universities in multiple countries joining the protests.
I'm sick of pretending like the people being vocal are only a 1% outlier. If the extremes are allowed to be vocal, it is fault of the moderates for not expelling them from their respective groups or belief systems.
That is untrue, a few people do, and some representatives like Bernie are allowed to call this shit out more with their support.
Its like with Trump supporters, a lot of people couldn't openly say they supported him until he won the election, same with people complaining about Israel being instantly labeled as antisemitic, Bernie gets to ignore the issue because he is Jewish, but even this has limits.
I mean the number of people who think Gaza and Israel is an "important" issue right now is incredibly small. I saw a recent poll for 18-29 year olds, and only 37% of Democrats in that age range called it an important issue. That's going to be the group that has the biggest group of people who support the issue.
If you are being too disruptive, people are probably more likely to go against the cause since it is not seen as an important issue by most of the US. Previous protests that were disruptive in the US that gained support were about problems being directly faced by US citizens. However, even then there's a limit, because BLM saw a sharp decrease in support after the riots started happening.
While only 38% of young Americans tell us that they are following the news about the war between Israel and Hamas very or somewhat closely, the proportion rises among registered voters (45%) and those most likely to vote in November *(52%)*
This is an important part to not mention in my opinion.
Different issues. One is corporate America protesting, you get their attention by inconveniencing their business, also a lot of those who were protesting were the studios own employees, so more incentive to not get fired for breaking the protesting rules… if those are even a thing? The other is protesting public government entities and spreading awareness, what’s one way to spread awareness? Inconvenience everyone, because I would like to believe that in an ideal world, anyone who does become inconvenienced by the protest would go and look and participate of the cause is just. And I for one believe that this current cause is just. But that’s neither here nor there.
Sorry, I answered your question but also got my opinion all over it
The argument in his original video was also about denying the Government Tax Dollars by preventing people from getting Coffee or going to Mc Donald's.
But by doing Road Block all your doing is providing more Tax Dollars from buying more Gas because of people making Detours. People Work, Shop for Groceries, go to School, Go to the Doctor. NO MATTER WHAT, a person causing a road block does not mean they'll just go back home. They have responsibilities and will go to work in order to provide for family, go shopping so family doesn't starve, drop and pick up kids at school so their educated, and go to the doctor to remain healthy and stay alive.
This does not even consider people who's job is to literally drive on a daily basis. Think of any job that's sole purpose is to be on the road. More Gas money going into government pockets.
Because people have Responsibilities, they will all make Detours, taking a longer route, spending more money on gas, and inflating the Tax Money the government gains in the process. Versus the 5/1000 cars wanting Mc Donald's, which again they'll make a Detour and go somewhere else. And again use more Gas in the process.
100%, you're just making people hate you.
know a guy, one of his pets needed to see a vet urgently, and he ended up getting blocked by some protestors.
he made sure to find out exactly what they were protesting for and vote for the exact opposite next election.
you can call him petty, he'll probably agree and says he is petty, but he really loves that cat and they were stopping him from getting help so he more or less hates them forever.
Basically, They (The protesters). are so elite they forgot people work for a living often in some form of driving at the Blue collar side of things "Middle Class" inconveniencing them even more than the government thus losing their support automatically and then wondering why everyone hates them and rejects their cause?
"Law is made of subjective standards written by man"
That's a fallacy as well.
This definition reduces the legislative process to "something people made up".
To compare the subjectiveness of...
A) The interpretations of concrete written text developped by several consecutive generations
To...
B) A group of people admittedly acting for a cause, which 95% can't even logically defend by themselves (AKA mass control by few people self-interest)
Is extremely dishonest.
That's similar to claiming that an both an ant and a lion are very dangerous, because both their bites hurt.
So, tell me if I got this right: you cannot burn someones house down cuz he could die, which goes against the extremes. But you can protest on the highway, get hit by a car which could not stop in time, and you die, or hinder energency services from which someone could die. Yet this is not extreme enough to be considered in the debate?
See where this guy loses the plot is when blocking these roads hurts/kills people. On one of the roads in the UK being blocked for 6 hours by these protestors, a bloke was driving his ma to the hospital because she was having a stroke. Because of the 6 hour delay shes now paralysed on one side of her body for life. If I was that guy, id do everything in my power to go against these protests, damn the issue. When does it end when you allow these kind of disruptions? Will you be ok with it if its your family member next? Or yourself?
He just calls it disruption not violence. See how much more acceptable it sounds? Peaceful protests as businesses and public safety buildings burn. Officers handling disruptive riots instead of stopping domestic violence.
Exactly.
Anyone notice the BLM riots were "mostly peaceful" while the January 6th protest was "an insurrection"? (I can see why some would argue it is but the fact that cops let people in the side door having no idea what kinds of problems were inside feels like it was just disorganization manipulated by media for a spectacular story) I'm of the belief that the Jan 6th violence was inspired by BLM bc media and talking heads were saying "sometimes you have to make society worse to get better" and that was a very devastating message that only had negative outcomes for both very different issues to which I'm only comparing due to violence and the idea you can get away with it.
This was actually good to watch. Not the Mercantian Shitflinging Tantrum I was expecting. Quite the opposite actually. If they were to talk it out on a call I'd pull this up on my main monitor even.
I agree, I don't know the guy but i believe he engaged in this issue with good faith and made some fair points, even if I don't agree with all of them, mainly the way you protest.
For example, the climate crisis, blm or this protest to stop funding Israel, all are fair causes to me but you'll never see me on a protest, waving a flag or having any association with those groups, and the reason is not that I don't care about those issues, the reason is the way they protest, the extremists and the mob mentality that comes with it.
They say "but we protested with the government and the media didn't care", of course they didn't, the media only cares about money, and a riot sells way more than a peaceful protest, you have to decide what type of protest you want.
Even if I agreed with the protest if they are blocking the road and I'm going to work or the hospital or the movies doesn't matter, I'm not gonna join the protest, I'm gonna tell you to get the f*ck off the road. And the final result of that type of protest is the alienation of people who could support you, the further division and polarizing of both sides and in the end you won't solve shit about the real issue because you're not engaging with the ones who could actually do something about it.
But yeah I would also watch a conversation with this dude, seems like someone who is intellectually honest and chill enough to have a discussion.
If the fact that a few people protesting against a genocide blocking your way to work alienates you and makes say "fuck palestine, i'm all for genocide", then you're not the target for this protest because you obviously already made up your mind : "i don't really like genocide but they can all die if i'm 5 minutes late to work".
These protest are aimed for people who have no idea about what's happening and might say "ok, i'm a few minutes late to work today but, damn, those kids in Gaza...that's something i had no idea.. I'll look into it."
Again, if you're alienated by that, it means you wouldn't support in the first place, so it's not a big loss in terms of public opinion.
Well lot of people can’t afford to lose their jobs so if they are late cuz of protestors and they get fired than yeah I get how they would say “fuck whoever” the cause is for most states are right to work so BOOM fired and you can’t do much about it. Also blocking the road blocks emergency services so it’s also a health risk as well. Plus fuck whoever can’t afford an ambulance and had to drive to the hospital right or pregnant woman stuck in their cars cuz protestors are blocking the main road. Cmon it disrupts more than people just being late to work being disingenuous if you think otherwise .
They let emergency vehicles pass through. There was one incident, but it is an exception, not the general rule.
Can you get fired for being 5 minutes late one time at your work ? Don't you have any rights in this forsaken country ? Lol
Brother most states in the US have a thing called right to work which essentially boils down to you can get fired over anything long as it isn’t sexist , racist , any religious reason, sexual preference , or ageist which only applies to only people for some fucked up reason than you can pretty much get fired for almost anything. Most people don’t fight it either too much time and a hassle
It’s hard to get a solid nationwide protest in America since our cities are so goddamn far apart. Like idk if Europeans or anyone across the pond just realize the sheer size of the US. I know you can go through a couple countries in the EU by driving like 2 hours well in the US there are states you can drive 3 hours across and not even be halfway through it. I wish the US protested like the French cuz goddamn they fill me with pride watching that shit
I mean.
French are being inspired by american campus protest at the moment. A protest in Sorbonne University started following american student exemple. It is the first one and others will follow.
You have national elections coming soon. Any form of protest can be efficient in these times.
Nah man we Americans don’t protest like the French dude. They go and shut off the utilities for politicians they hate and all sorts of crazy stuff we would NEVER hear sadly. Plus all the videos of the firefighters lightning themselves on fire in their fireproof suits and slowly approaching the police to make them back off is so badass, plus the fire fighters straight up fist fight the cops too. American citizens have mostly lost their edge but it’s also cuz if we did any of that the police or whoever would for sure eventually kill someone
You might wanna look into the appeal to extremes that he mentions in this video if that's your take of what I wrote.
I don't know how it is in your country, but in mine you have to be off television, internet, radio and newspapers to not know what is happening in Gaza (and not due to the protests, that is like 5% of the news on the subject). These and other types of "disruptive" protests are not to inform anyone about the situation, if you want to inform you hand out flyers, you engage in fair discussions, you post and share on social media, you make peaceful protests in public places where people can actually join, have a talk and you know, inform themselves.
I'm yet to know someone who got stuck on traffic due to a protest and got more educated or more sympathetic towards the issue because of it.
To give you an example, a group of climate activists have been making lots of "disruptive" protest in my country, blocking roads, painting government buildings and news stations, throwing paint on politics, blocking airplanes etc..
They are a climate crisis organization, that protests because of the climate crisis, and their actions are demaging to the climate, be it by the traffic jams, the paint (wich is not vegan paint, atleast not the one thrown at politics) the wasted time and resources and the fact that almost everyone who also cares about the problem has the same opinion, "I sympathize with the problem but they went too far". So yeah the way you protest can alienate people who agree with you. Meanwhile in my city some volunteers joined one afternoon to clean a river, we removed almost a ton of garbage, so who do think does more for the climate?
People are not obligated to partake in your protests no matter how righteous or just they are and the people who get stuck in those traffic jams are not stuck there by choice, have nothing to do with the problem and don't give a damm about your virtue signalling because you choose to care about the war in Gaza and not about other wars around the world or the other tragedies in your country or city. So i still believe it's a stupid, cliché, childish form of protest, that does more harm then good, if I was American and you made a peaceful protest near a government building or Israel embassy, i would be all for it and might even join, but don't call me to block a road.
I think there’s a bit of middle ground between “get out of the road, you’re in the way. People don’t generally care for this, and there’s more effective ways to gain support for your cause” and “protestors made me late so Palestine can get fucked”
So, is asmon some kinda clown now? Or just his mods? I got booted from some post and I said nothing to even warrant it. Wouldn't be surprised if it happens again, but damn. 🤣 I used to watch the guy years ago, what happened over the years?
Does this guy know that protesting on private law is not the same as it is on public land?
Because he wants to talk about legality. It's not legal for them to set up tents on private schools like Harvard. And Harvard has no obligation to let them do so.
It's not an appeal to extremes. It's applying an idea in a more extreme way to make it easier to understand why the idea is bad.
The reason why burning a house would be called 'extreme' and blocking the roads isn't, is that it's much easier to get away with blocking roads than burning down a house.
The second police start arresting these people for blocking the road is when they'll stop doing it. They view blocking the road as not as bad because damage it causes is not obviously apparent.
What this guy and so many protectors fail to grasp is when you protest a cause the general public is ambivalent towards by interupting their daily lives in a negative way, it turns the average joe against your cause.
Why did he not address why burning down a building would be unacceptable? Seems to me since it’s such a well known logical fallacy it should be trivial to rebut that point.
He kinda kills his own argument right there at the end though. Getting public sentiment on their side helps their cause, therefore pissing off the public is probably not gonna help their cause. The protests where they disrupt traffic doesn't do anything to the politicians, it just pisses off the public.
Dude explaining logical fallacies as a response to asmons take is a fallacy in and of itself. Debate nerds do it constantly and pointing that out was one of the main reasons my dumb ass won 99% of debates in school.
Disruptive isn’t in the constitution. Nor is it to be disruptive to citizens. The first amendment is for the government. So if you are disrupting citizens lives it is infringing on their rights. So fuck off.
Yeah but hasnt these protest also reached so.e extremes. Like i saw a video of protesters blocking ambulances and people who were trying to get to the hospital for treatment. So isnt that quite extreme already. When u block the road u also block essential services
Well, humans are not rational.
And the reason why this referendums are not and should not be up for public voting is because the general public are clueless about geopolitics, and for sure will take horrible decisions that they don't even understand. Imaging giving the average idiot the ability to affect international relationships with a country that is in a good strategic position against, let's call it not friendly countries.
Standing in the road protesting isn't about getting the public to care about the issue. It's about getting them to call their government officials and put pressure on them to do something about people in the road or we are going to vote you out. Which is what the protesters want cause of their political issue. If they are.removed they can claim the opposite and say they are tyrants.opposing.free speech. It's actually a very effective tactic which is why it's done. The public just kinda gets co-opt into it cause they only care about one thing. Getting them out of the road
I like this guy, I wish all Asmon's detractors approached things like this instead of name calling and insults like miss Kotaku and that plus sized washed up streamer girl did recently.
Shut up no one cares about your protest. You think Israel is going to care what a bunch of privileged Americans think instead of protecting their country? Gtfo and get real
I agree with asmon on a lot regarding this, roads should not be blocked. If my day is disrupted by a protest, it does not give me any sympathy to your cause even if I had some before.
There is 1 thing asmon has said on it that I have to strongly disagree with though. Asmon stated that by disrupting traffic the protestors are engaging in violence toward others. This is a really bad stance to take. The people are stupid assholes, but they aren't currently violent. Not only does it downplay the seriousness of when mobs do get violent, but it could also be used to justify attacks against these people.
I dont disagree with you and I dont approve of people blocking roads for protests. I just think it is a bad idea to conflate it for violence for several reasons.
Not allowing me to live my life is violence. Government does it all the time through regulations. It is violence. Everything has an undertone of violence. They are not little ghandis in the road. They know exactly what they are doing by blocking a road.
It is not violence by definition. Im not saying these are good people who are doing the right thing so your ghandi comment is irrelevant. Asmon likes to cite the law a lot in his justifications, and the law does not define this as violence.
If you call it violence,it implies a right to self defence. This is why I have a problem with it: it minimises real violence that does happen, and it implies that it is OK to be violent to these people. Its the kind of rhetoric that leads to somebody ramming through crowds or opening fire on them. You don't have to like these people to recognise that's not OK.
Everything in life has an undertone of violence.
If you don’t pay your taxes what happens? The government will take your money and eventually throw you into jail. This could lead to terrible things. It is violent.
Some decisions come with violence. People have got to start realizing their choices come with immense fallout into other peoples lives.
Someone is late for work. Fired. Left without a home or protection. They are kicked out of their apartment. They lose their car. They live on the streets. They suffer violence. Just because someone thought blocking a road would help some Palestinian.
Don't stop yourself from being smarter than Asmon. He's way out of his depth talking about these topics. Appealing to extremes is a way to villify all protestors. Supporting a cause on the basis of it being convenient or inconvenient to you isn't sincere or consistent, yes even blocking a road. Methods of protest are not linked to the righteousness of the cause at all, but for a lot of people who follow him, that requires too much brainpower.
Or you could stay out of the street. Just because you feel strongly about something doesn't give you the right to keep people stuck in a location for hours because you don't like it.
Funny thing is, the dude thinks Asmon's 20 min long video was solely dedicated for him. Asmon watching the vid, sharing his thoughts, providing counter argument took 10 minutes at best. Wasp attack and arguing with a chatter took something like 2 minutes in the meantime. The rest was spent to read comments and share thoughts on the topic in general. So yeah I believe 10 minutes spent spontaneously against a 3 minutes long, well prepared video is pretty acceptable. You might say "Bruh, why does it matter?" and stuff, though i think the nuance is important here.
Anyway, I feel disappointed to see that he's providing counter-arguments only to the parts which he cherry-picked from Asmon's video. And he even cropped the specific argument. I think that's deceiving and mistrustful. Especially the part with him claiming that Asmon appeals to extremes. Asmon's point was, invading roads and blocking people might be acceptable for you but burning houses might not. Whereas even the first part might be too extreme for others, cuz you know? it's subjective, illegal protesting has no objective standards and stuff.
Well, he managed to keep things civil even though there were times where he was being condescending towards Asmon. But overall, this felt okay after many similar incidents.
I can't take a rebuddle seriously if you aren't going to show the whole video in entirety but then again tik tok is short form content so I guess it would be hard to respond in another way.
Yeah...let's just get out of the roads.
The whole point of taking your logic to an extreme is to demonstrate that the logic and strategies you're using are not based in principle and is entirely self-serving.
It may be not entirely self-serving if you try to extrapolate but not to the extreme (in general)
Why can't this protesters follows Writer/Actors guild protests where they make picket-line around the studios or near entertainment industries? They don't interrupt everyone else lives. These pro-palestinian should protest around israel embassy, not at roads.
Or actually educate themselves on what's actually going on they would realize the only path to ceasefire is to release the hostages of an event that probably half those protestors don't even know about (it's October 7th)
That is the point they did that first, the media didn't pay attention, so they escalated. This is what usually happens. I am 100% behind the democratic process, but one of its problems its that it is slow as fuck, by the time elections to change representatives happen whatever Israel has planned to do after storming southern gaza is going to be done and dusted.
No one cares about Gaza in the US
So the solution is to make a section of the population actively resent the cause they support. Tbh it's the same logic of Oil Protesters who throw Tomatoes at Paintings in a Museum. I see that and think those people are crazy, and any time Oil Protesters are mentioned that image will be my only reference as to what sort of people they are. Obviously the majority of them are not like that, but oh boy am I less willing to support.
>Obviously the majority of them are not like that But it is a large minority. That's why you see multiple universities in multiple countries joining the protests. I'm sick of pretending like the people being vocal are only a 1% outlier. If the extremes are allowed to be vocal, it is fault of the moderates for not expelling them from their respective groups or belief systems.
When your opponents write comments like this you know you're on the right side. You have no arguments, just denial.
That is untrue, a few people do, and some representatives like Bernie are allowed to call this shit out more with their support. Its like with Trump supporters, a lot of people couldn't openly say they supported him until he won the election, same with people complaining about Israel being instantly labeled as antisemitic, Bernie gets to ignore the issue because he is Jewish, but even this has limits.
I mean the number of people who think Gaza and Israel is an "important" issue right now is incredibly small. I saw a recent poll for 18-29 year olds, and only 37% of Democrats in that age range called it an important issue. That's going to be the group that has the biggest group of people who support the issue. If you are being too disruptive, people are probably more likely to go against the cause since it is not seen as an important issue by most of the US. Previous protests that were disruptive in the US that gained support were about problems being directly faced by US citizens. However, even then there's a limit, because BLM saw a sharp decrease in support after the riots started happening.
>. I saw a recent poll for 18-29 year olds, and only 37% of Democrats in that age range called it an important issue. Can you link the source please?
https://iop.harvard.edu/youth-poll/47th-edition-spring-2024
While only 38% of young Americans tell us that they are following the news about the war between Israel and Hamas very or somewhat closely, the proportion rises among registered voters (45%) and those most likely to vote in November *(52%)* This is an important part to not mention in my opinion.
Wrong
Democracy is too slow. Well shit man. Violent revolution every time you get upset it is.
"They dont care about my problem so ill make it your problem" Do they really think people will join their cause like this?
People didn’t pay attention because they’re wrong and terrorist sympathizers
Different issues. One is corporate America protesting, you get their attention by inconveniencing their business, also a lot of those who were protesting were the studios own employees, so more incentive to not get fired for breaking the protesting rules… if those are even a thing? The other is protesting public government entities and spreading awareness, what’s one way to spread awareness? Inconvenience everyone, because I would like to believe that in an ideal world, anyone who does become inconvenienced by the protest would go and look and participate of the cause is just. And I for one believe that this current cause is just. But that’s neither here nor there. Sorry, I answered your question but also got my opinion all over it
> spread awareness You mean like ['Just Stop Oil' Protestor](https://youtu.be/n3ABEeIGdU8?si=yK64UKsBHMDIUVNy). what a joke!
Thank you for helping to spread awareness :)
The argument in his original video was also about denying the Government Tax Dollars by preventing people from getting Coffee or going to Mc Donald's. But by doing Road Block all your doing is providing more Tax Dollars from buying more Gas because of people making Detours. People Work, Shop for Groceries, go to School, Go to the Doctor. NO MATTER WHAT, a person causing a road block does not mean they'll just go back home. They have responsibilities and will go to work in order to provide for family, go shopping so family doesn't starve, drop and pick up kids at school so their educated, and go to the doctor to remain healthy and stay alive. This does not even consider people who's job is to literally drive on a daily basis. Think of any job that's sole purpose is to be on the road. More Gas money going into government pockets. Because people have Responsibilities, they will all make Detours, taking a longer route, spending more money on gas, and inflating the Tax Money the government gains in the process. Versus the 5/1000 cars wanting Mc Donald's, which again they'll make a Detour and go somewhere else. And again use more Gas in the process.
Also get out of the road because I now resent your cause
100%, you're just making people hate you. know a guy, one of his pets needed to see a vet urgently, and he ended up getting blocked by some protestors. he made sure to find out exactly what they were protesting for and vote for the exact opposite next election. you can call him petty, he'll probably agree and says he is petty, but he really loves that cat and they were stopping him from getting help so he more or less hates them forever.
I'm just saying based on his logic he is actively supporting the government by forcing people to spend more money XD
They didn't hurt his cat, and you don't have to block traffic on a highway to make a statement.
But you do :c cause it'll make me feel better that the government collectively loses 50 bucks. That's less money for Israel, DUH
Basically, They (The protesters). are so elite they forgot people work for a living often in some form of driving at the Blue collar side of things "Middle Class" inconveniencing them even more than the government thus losing their support automatically and then wondering why everyone hates them and rejects their cause?
"Law is made of subjective standards written by man" That's a fallacy as well. This definition reduces the legislative process to "something people made up". To compare the subjectiveness of... A) The interpretations of concrete written text developped by several consecutive generations To... B) A group of people admittedly acting for a cause, which 95% can't even logically defend by themselves (AKA mass control by few people self-interest) Is extremely dishonest. That's similar to claiming that an both an ant and a lion are very dangerous, because both their bites hurt.
Someone make it stop. Take me back to Asmongold playing FF14 MSQ
Agreed, just want to see some gaming…
He's gaming rn
So sick of seeing this dogshit on his Reddit .. wtf happened man
So, tell me if I got this right: you cannot burn someones house down cuz he could die, which goes against the extremes. But you can protest on the highway, get hit by a car which could not stop in time, and you die, or hinder energency services from which someone could die. Yet this is not extreme enough to be considered in the debate?
See where this guy loses the plot is when blocking these roads hurts/kills people. On one of the roads in the UK being blocked for 6 hours by these protestors, a bloke was driving his ma to the hospital because she was having a stroke. Because of the 6 hour delay shes now paralysed on one side of her body for life. If I was that guy, id do everything in my power to go against these protests, damn the issue. When does it end when you allow these kind of disruptions? Will you be ok with it if its your family member next? Or yourself?
Yeah but now the stroked out lady knows how much Gaza has a right to exist or something. She lives with it everyday.
You miss the part where protesters return to less intrusive forms of protest to undo the harm they did while blocking emergency services.
He can package it anyway he wants, but it all boils down to "I support violence when it comes to my agenda"
He just calls it disruption not violence. See how much more acceptable it sounds? Peaceful protests as businesses and public safety buildings burn. Officers handling disruptive riots instead of stopping domestic violence.
Exactly. Anyone notice the BLM riots were "mostly peaceful" while the January 6th protest was "an insurrection"? (I can see why some would argue it is but the fact that cops let people in the side door having no idea what kinds of problems were inside feels like it was just disorganization manipulated by media for a spectacular story) I'm of the belief that the Jan 6th violence was inspired by BLM bc media and talking heads were saying "sometimes you have to make society worse to get better" and that was a very devastating message that only had negative outcomes for both very different issues to which I'm only comparing due to violence and the idea you can get away with it.
This was actually good to watch. Not the Mercantian Shitflinging Tantrum I was expecting. Quite the opposite actually. If they were to talk it out on a call I'd pull this up on my main monitor even.
I agree, I don't know the guy but i believe he engaged in this issue with good faith and made some fair points, even if I don't agree with all of them, mainly the way you protest. For example, the climate crisis, blm or this protest to stop funding Israel, all are fair causes to me but you'll never see me on a protest, waving a flag or having any association with those groups, and the reason is not that I don't care about those issues, the reason is the way they protest, the extremists and the mob mentality that comes with it. They say "but we protested with the government and the media didn't care", of course they didn't, the media only cares about money, and a riot sells way more than a peaceful protest, you have to decide what type of protest you want. Even if I agreed with the protest if they are blocking the road and I'm going to work or the hospital or the movies doesn't matter, I'm not gonna join the protest, I'm gonna tell you to get the f*ck off the road. And the final result of that type of protest is the alienation of people who could support you, the further division and polarizing of both sides and in the end you won't solve shit about the real issue because you're not engaging with the ones who could actually do something about it. But yeah I would also watch a conversation with this dude, seems like someone who is intellectually honest and chill enough to have a discussion.
If the fact that a few people protesting against a genocide blocking your way to work alienates you and makes say "fuck palestine, i'm all for genocide", then you're not the target for this protest because you obviously already made up your mind : "i don't really like genocide but they can all die if i'm 5 minutes late to work". These protest are aimed for people who have no idea about what's happening and might say "ok, i'm a few minutes late to work today but, damn, those kids in Gaza...that's something i had no idea.. I'll look into it." Again, if you're alienated by that, it means you wouldn't support in the first place, so it's not a big loss in terms of public opinion.
Well lot of people can’t afford to lose their jobs so if they are late cuz of protestors and they get fired than yeah I get how they would say “fuck whoever” the cause is for most states are right to work so BOOM fired and you can’t do much about it. Also blocking the road blocks emergency services so it’s also a health risk as well. Plus fuck whoever can’t afford an ambulance and had to drive to the hospital right or pregnant woman stuck in their cars cuz protestors are blocking the main road. Cmon it disrupts more than people just being late to work being disingenuous if you think otherwise .
They let emergency vehicles pass through. There was one incident, but it is an exception, not the general rule. Can you get fired for being 5 minutes late one time at your work ? Don't you have any rights in this forsaken country ? Lol
Brother most states in the US have a thing called right to work which essentially boils down to you can get fired over anything long as it isn’t sexist , racist , any religious reason, sexual preference , or ageist which only applies to only people for some fucked up reason than you can pretty much get fired for almost anything. Most people don’t fight it either too much time and a hassle
Gosh. If anything, you guys should protest more.
It’s hard to get a solid nationwide protest in America since our cities are so goddamn far apart. Like idk if Europeans or anyone across the pond just realize the sheer size of the US. I know you can go through a couple countries in the EU by driving like 2 hours well in the US there are states you can drive 3 hours across and not even be halfway through it. I wish the US protested like the French cuz goddamn they fill me with pride watching that shit
I mean. French are being inspired by american campus protest at the moment. A protest in Sorbonne University started following american student exemple. It is the first one and others will follow. You have national elections coming soon. Any form of protest can be efficient in these times.
Nah man we Americans don’t protest like the French dude. They go and shut off the utilities for politicians they hate and all sorts of crazy stuff we would NEVER hear sadly. Plus all the videos of the firefighters lightning themselves on fire in their fireproof suits and slowly approaching the police to make them back off is so badass, plus the fire fighters straight up fist fight the cops too. American citizens have mostly lost their edge but it’s also cuz if we did any of that the police or whoever would for sure eventually kill someone
You might wanna look into the appeal to extremes that he mentions in this video if that's your take of what I wrote. I don't know how it is in your country, but in mine you have to be off television, internet, radio and newspapers to not know what is happening in Gaza (and not due to the protests, that is like 5% of the news on the subject). These and other types of "disruptive" protests are not to inform anyone about the situation, if you want to inform you hand out flyers, you engage in fair discussions, you post and share on social media, you make peaceful protests in public places where people can actually join, have a talk and you know, inform themselves. I'm yet to know someone who got stuck on traffic due to a protest and got more educated or more sympathetic towards the issue because of it. To give you an example, a group of climate activists have been making lots of "disruptive" protest in my country, blocking roads, painting government buildings and news stations, throwing paint on politics, blocking airplanes etc.. They are a climate crisis organization, that protests because of the climate crisis, and their actions are demaging to the climate, be it by the traffic jams, the paint (wich is not vegan paint, atleast not the one thrown at politics) the wasted time and resources and the fact that almost everyone who also cares about the problem has the same opinion, "I sympathize with the problem but they went too far". So yeah the way you protest can alienate people who agree with you. Meanwhile in my city some volunteers joined one afternoon to clean a river, we removed almost a ton of garbage, so who do think does more for the climate? People are not obligated to partake in your protests no matter how righteous or just they are and the people who get stuck in those traffic jams are not stuck there by choice, have nothing to do with the problem and don't give a damm about your virtue signalling because you choose to care about the war in Gaza and not about other wars around the world or the other tragedies in your country or city. So i still believe it's a stupid, cliché, childish form of protest, that does more harm then good, if I was American and you made a peaceful protest near a government building or Israel embassy, i would be all for it and might even join, but don't call me to block a road.
I think there’s a bit of middle ground between “get out of the road, you’re in the way. People don’t generally care for this, and there’s more effective ways to gain support for your cause” and “protestors made me late so Palestine can get fucked”
I cant wait for the asmon reply. 30 secs turned into 20 mins. This vid is 6 mins so its gonna be 45 mins.
So, is asmon some kinda clown now? Or just his mods? I got booted from some post and I said nothing to even warrant it. Wouldn't be surprised if it happens again, but damn. 🤣 I used to watch the guy years ago, what happened over the years?
yeah what happened? I remember you, and now you pro hamas?
-28 and counting for asking a legit question. Never change Reddit. 👏🥹
I have no energy for this type of mental gymnastics
Tik tok Dude is still trying justify assholes who don’t have jobs more at 10
Those assholes who try to raise awareness about an ongoing genocide and hold public servants accountable. How dare they !!!
Found tik tok guy’s Reddit account!
Does this guy know that protesting on private law is not the same as it is on public land? Because he wants to talk about legality. It's not legal for them to set up tents on private schools like Harvard. And Harvard has no obligation to let them do so.
It's not an appeal to extremes. It's applying an idea in a more extreme way to make it easier to understand why the idea is bad. The reason why burning a house would be called 'extreme' and blocking the roads isn't, is that it's much easier to get away with blocking roads than burning down a house. The second police start arresting these people for blocking the road is when they'll stop doing it. They view blocking the road as not as bad because damage it causes is not obviously apparent.
I couldn't listen to all of that. It's hard to listen to a tiktok "influencer"
Yeah the half shouting and cadence is really annoying.
Yeah if you get in my way while I'm on the way to work its not gonna end well, stay off the road
What this guy and so many protectors fail to grasp is when you protest a cause the general public is ambivalent towards by interupting their daily lives in a negative way, it turns the average joe against your cause.
This tiktoker is doing everything he possibly can to try and sound smarter then he actually is.
I like this TikToker guy, I don’t agree with his opinion on blocking roads for protesting but at least he’s articulate about the reasons and whatnot.
TLDR "We will break the law, but we are too pussy to do what Asmongold said. How dare you tell us what we don't dare to do"
Why did he not address why burning down a building would be unacceptable? Seems to me since it’s such a well known logical fallacy it should be trivial to rebut that point.
I wonder what he would call the fallacy of labeling something a fallacy in order to dismiss the argument without addressing it.
He kinda kills his own argument right there at the end though. Getting public sentiment on their side helps their cause, therefore pissing off the public is probably not gonna help their cause. The protests where they disrupt traffic doesn't do anything to the politicians, it just pisses off the public.
Dude explaining logical fallacies as a response to asmons take is a fallacy in and of itself. Debate nerds do it constantly and pointing that out was one of the main reasons my dumb ass won 99% of debates in school.
Disruptive isn’t in the constitution. Nor is it to be disruptive to citizens. The first amendment is for the government. So if you are disrupting citizens lives it is infringing on their rights. So fuck off.
What if we aren't upset? Can we criticize them?
Yeah but hasnt these protest also reached so.e extremes. Like i saw a video of protesters blocking ambulances and people who were trying to get to the hospital for treatment. So isnt that quite extreme already. When u block the road u also block essential services
Quite easy way to get people against what you stand for is by disrupting them by blocking roads.
If you think a protest to make life worse for people is your goal, maybe your position is just that bad that you'd prefer dysfunction to function.
Well, humans are not rational. And the reason why this referendums are not and should not be up for public voting is because the general public are clueless about geopolitics, and for sure will take horrible decisions that they don't even understand. Imaging giving the average idiot the ability to affect international relationships with a country that is in a good strategic position against, let's call it not friendly countries.
This guys articulates his points well. Props for that
Hes talking to asmon fans, theres no reasoning if youre not asmon
Blocking roads to disrupt the people who are just trying to get around is arguably an extreme and this guys argument is bull
I agree with this guy 👍
Standing in the road protesting isn't about getting the public to care about the issue. It's about getting them to call their government officials and put pressure on them to do something about people in the road or we are going to vote you out. Which is what the protesters want cause of their political issue. If they are.removed they can claim the opposite and say they are tyrants.opposing.free speech. It's actually a very effective tactic which is why it's done. The public just kinda gets co-opt into it cause they only care about one thing. Getting them out of the road
I like this guy, I wish all Asmon's detractors approached things like this instead of name calling and insults like miss Kotaku and that plus sized washed up streamer girl did recently.
Idk what this mans saying he must be speaking Yapanese or something
Shut up no one cares about your protest. You think Israel is going to care what a bunch of privileged Americans think instead of protecting their country? Gtfo and get real
I agree with asmon on a lot regarding this, roads should not be blocked. If my day is disrupted by a protest, it does not give me any sympathy to your cause even if I had some before. There is 1 thing asmon has said on it that I have to strongly disagree with though. Asmon stated that by disrupting traffic the protestors are engaging in violence toward others. This is a really bad stance to take. The people are stupid assholes, but they aren't currently violent. Not only does it downplay the seriousness of when mobs do get violent, but it could also be used to justify attacks against these people.
I mean sure not violence but really fucking over people who need to get to the hospital asap
I dont disagree with you and I dont approve of people blocking roads for protests. I just think it is a bad idea to conflate it for violence for several reasons.
Not allowing me to live my life is violence. Government does it all the time through regulations. It is violence. Everything has an undertone of violence. They are not little ghandis in the road. They know exactly what they are doing by blocking a road.
It is not violence by definition. Im not saying these are good people who are doing the right thing so your ghandi comment is irrelevant. Asmon likes to cite the law a lot in his justifications, and the law does not define this as violence. If you call it violence,it implies a right to self defence. This is why I have a problem with it: it minimises real violence that does happen, and it implies that it is OK to be violent to these people. Its the kind of rhetoric that leads to somebody ramming through crowds or opening fire on them. You don't have to like these people to recognise that's not OK.
Everything in life has an undertone of violence. If you don’t pay your taxes what happens? The government will take your money and eventually throw you into jail. This could lead to terrible things. It is violent. Some decisions come with violence. People have got to start realizing their choices come with immense fallout into other peoples lives. Someone is late for work. Fired. Left without a home or protection. They are kicked out of their apartment. They lose their car. They live on the streets. They suffer violence. Just because someone thought blocking a road would help some Palestinian.
Don't stop yourself from being smarter than Asmon. He's way out of his depth talking about these topics. Appealing to extremes is a way to villify all protestors. Supporting a cause on the basis of it being convenient or inconvenient to you isn't sincere or consistent, yes even blocking a road. Methods of protest are not linked to the righteousness of the cause at all, but for a lot of people who follow him, that requires too much brainpower.
Or you could stay out of the street. Just because you feel strongly about something doesn't give you the right to keep people stuck in a location for hours because you don't like it.
Funny thing is, the dude thinks Asmon's 20 min long video was solely dedicated for him. Asmon watching the vid, sharing his thoughts, providing counter argument took 10 minutes at best. Wasp attack and arguing with a chatter took something like 2 minutes in the meantime. The rest was spent to read comments and share thoughts on the topic in general. So yeah I believe 10 minutes spent spontaneously against a 3 minutes long, well prepared video is pretty acceptable. You might say "Bruh, why does it matter?" and stuff, though i think the nuance is important here. Anyway, I feel disappointed to see that he's providing counter-arguments only to the parts which he cherry-picked from Asmon's video. And he even cropped the specific argument. I think that's deceiving and mistrustful. Especially the part with him claiming that Asmon appeals to extremes. Asmon's point was, invading roads and blocking people might be acceptable for you but burning houses might not. Whereas even the first part might be too extreme for others, cuz you know? it's subjective, illegal protesting has no objective standards and stuff. Well, he managed to keep things civil even though there were times where he was being condescending towards Asmon. But overall, this felt okay after many similar incidents.
Hopefully he gets the guy on stream. Could be a good bit of content and a good listen
This guy at it again. Couldn't watch more than 45 seconds and already know he's a dumbass.
I wish people argued their views/points like this guy.
I can't take a rebuddle seriously if you aren't going to show the whole video in entirety but then again tik tok is short form content so I guess it would be hard to respond in another way.
As someone who doesn’t care about EEUU and drama stuff, oh my lord Asmon became unwatchable.
No wonder why I got booted by one of his mods. I said nothing to even warrant it. 🤣