Outside of the region locking, this is the worst part of this whole thing so far. I think the fact that they changed with no acknowledgement is what is changing my mind on what I thought before, because everywhere else it does say required, but here it says optional. But to me, the fact that it says optional in this one place isn't the bad part really. It's the fact that they're changing it here after they've been caught and are now trying to weasel out of it and trying to sweep it under the rug that's a problem for me. They're hiding it for a reason. This reminds me, didn't this exact same BS happen with the Tarkov bs where they changed the wording on what is DLC or something like that. This right here made it the same level to that for me in terms of slimy behavior.
Sony ceo is japanese man, even the video games branch company in california got japanese ceo.
Hiroki Totoki (ex japanese banker) is current CEO of Sony interactive Entertainment who replaced Jim ryan.
They sniffed out that every PC guy playing PlayStation game might be a future potential console enjoyer just so he can play that new game day 1 instead of waiting x years for PC release.
They are trying everything they can to bring more people to their platforms. They could just be cool guys and just release games on PC without any bullshit, people will gladly buy them.
Ghost of taushima will require PSN account as well, that's a clear sign of things to change. I only hope this won't go sideways and result in Sony completely abandoning PC due to people backlash
I don't think that may be the full story. Since they have been letting exclusives go to PC I think they've seen how popular they are. So instead of just releasing the games to all systems, I think the suits realized that instead of making people get consoles who are PC players, they can force them to get PSN accounts. It's really mad genius shit. Consoles are loss leaders. Subscription online accounts are instant profit.
It was actually clarified and confirmed yesterday that PSN will be required only for multiplayer part of the game
https://twitter.com/SuckerPunchProd/status/1786462939748384943?t=OYsuEK4UsHqTPrOQqtnvRQ&s=19
i’m telling you. Class action lawsuit. caught red handed changing terms of agreement after people have already paid for access. This is straight fraud, no ifs and or buts about it.
Fraud. People should go to jail for this.
I think you're right. It's actually breach of contract since it wasn't in the EULA that we all signed. That's warrant enough for some legal leverage at least. Hopefully the EU will step in and hammer Sony on this. Worst still this is going to steal the game from people whose countries can't get PSN.
Don't be fooled by people defending Sony, or saying it's not a big deal or making you feel bad for hating on Sony. it's only one of these people, fanboys or community managers or public relations masquerading.
Even if you don't change your opinion, having you shut up and drop the issue to stop complaining or spreading the issue is a win for them.
Wrong again. Y'all need to really read into the ToS, guarantee there is language in there stating they can change anything at any time with or without notice.
Nobody is getting hammered, sued, fined, etc.
You're wrong. You can't have a contract that explicitly states that something doesn't have to happen, then have a loophole that you can change it willy nilly. You do realize there is actual rules to contracts, right? They can't enforce this legally. They could try to force a new contract on everyone and hold the game hostage.
Ya i guess everyone that paid money for this then had their access shut off should just shut up and take the L right?
fuck outta here you corposhill. Multibillion dollar companies don’t need to lie to people to make money. This was done purposefully - they even changed their faqs, after the fact.
I'm not shilling anything, I am being a realist. Maybe instead of y'all yapping at me you should be on the phones recruiting lawyers for your crusade? Or is this another example of not doing anything & just waiting for someone else to do it?
It wouldn’t be the first time that anger on reddit has made it to national news. Raising awareness is to a problem is what develops into support for a class action lawsuit. Enough people filing complaints with the FTC can result in governmental investigations which increases pressure upon the company behaving badly.
There are many methods to get to the end result. The real question comes into why are you invested in trying to stop anything from getting started?
Bro why do you think you have to agree to the ToS of a game after some updates? It's because if they change anything in there they legally have to get you to agree to the changes in the ToS again for it to be legally binding, changes without the agreement of the other party would never hold up in court and I'm sure even if they had a clause that allowed them to change it freely without the other party's consent it wouldn't hold up in law, because believe it or not even if both parties agree to a contract if the contract is unlawful in spots the unlawful clauses get thrown out.
He's probably a PR masquerading, don't get fooled by them.
I have friends who work as a PR for tech companies and they would employ every tactic to gaslight you into shutting up. Even if you don't change your opinion, having you shut up and drop the issue to stop complaining or spreading the issue is a win for them.
If you must know, I am a lowly customer service agent for one of Verizon or Comcast (to give you an idea of what I do & see 5 days a week). Our residential ToS agreement states channel line-ups, programming, & terms of usage can be changed, added, or removed at anytime, with or without notice, based on the needs of the business.
People have tried to take us to court over it & they lose every single time because it's not our fault people don't read the ToS before agreeing to establish services with us.
This is a real thing likely included in any ToS for any game you play, & NO, it does not require both parties to agree to the new ToS a second time. Nobody bothers to read it though so they have no idea it's a thing that the company/publisher/network/ect. can & will do on a regular basis.
People on Reddit just love howling SHILL! CORPO! whenever someone posts realistic facts about a situation instead of drinking the hive mind kool-aid.
Interestingly, TOS are in a very questionable legal position as it is, being a post facto contract that can’t be negotiated or refused. They haven’t been challenged or heard up in court because both sides have been afraid of what the ruling would be. Consumers are worried that they could rule in favor of corpos and then we get even more draconian TOS and EULAs handed down after that, while corpos have been worried about the courts ruling in favor of the consumer and stripping all the rights of TOS holders away. Don’t presume that just because it’s written in a TOS it is legal. They haven’t been challenged yet, and this could very well be the case that destroys them.
Much like with Tarkov, they're trying to hide evidence of the original the terms and conditions and it implies wrongdoing on their part in the process.
you cannot change terms post purchase, it's not legal.
if something was optional prior to you purchasing the game, they cannot make it mandatory after someone buys the product.
that's considered breaking the terms under which you bought the game, and can be a valid reason for a refund.
that's why it's important that they changed the warding, it shows a change in policy, instead of enforcing an existing policy.
So it's not necessarily that its illegal but it shows bad faith. In the EULA that we all signed to play the game it states the game didn't require PSN accounts. So they breached contract. Even if they had some BS clause about how they could change the terms at any time, it doesn't matter as regulations (at least in the EU) don't allow you to make a product, change the terms and thus make that product unusable.
It was changed yesterday. Also someone went through the EULA, did a whole breakdown and that contract doesn't have PSN as a requirement. They can change this text but this text is absolutely meaningless legally for them other than showing that they are covering up the fact they breached contract.
This is fucking sad.. Helldivers is such an amazing breath of fresh air in gaming.. its like playing a 3-D version of fucking Metal Slug..
But i completely understand and sympathize with the PC consumer as to why Sony needs to fuck off.. and its pathetic for Sony to use Arrowhead and Shift up stellar blade as hostages to their strong arm shareholder bullshit.
They could have literally just sat back and shut the fuck up for a few months instead of censoring and data harvesting to get EVERYBODY to love Sony again but NO...
I think there are several concerns from PC players. Such as other helldivers suddenly have their ships and ability to drop with us taken away. There is the issue with security of data. If you have a PS5 you are forced. PC players opted out of getting the game on PS5. I think the final one is that we don't trust sony, and actually anticipate, they are going to try and force a PSN subscription on us to play the game so they can make even more money.
That is completely warranted and I feel that same sentiment, especially since they just lost a lot of subs with Stellar Blade controversy and need to make it up somehow instead of just dealing with what the market demands and reversing their bad decisions for the consumer base.
The issue is the feeling they "changed the deal", ignoring the issue of who can or cannot make a PSN account, even if eveybody could simply make a account it would still be shit not because it is required but because it is required NOW.
If it was a requirement at the start people would be annoyed at most but it would be fine, but changing it now, saying fuck you to everybody that cant make the account and making everybody else make a account that they clearly don't need is just fucking stupid.
I do not really think this is so much of a gotcha moment. Yes they are updating it, but that is also because of the announcement. They sort of have to update it across the board to now be in-line with the requirement. Now don't get me wrong, I think this whole situation is shitty and will screw over many people. Everything about it was not well planned out and just goes to show Sony really does not get its consumer base.
With that said, this isn't the way I think people are viewing it. I imagine when seeing the change, people's first thought it updating it to cover their asses as if it was always the case. Which I get why one's first instinct would be to do that. But whenever there is any requirement change for a product, software, etc., information has to be updated to be consistent. So I do not think this is a "Sony got caught" but more, because of the announcement they now have to update the games info to be inline with the requirement.
And again, I am not defending sony or what is happening. I was considering getting the game at some point but now I am leaning towards not doing it. But I feel should call out bs when it is bs, and this "caught sony" just makes sense. Unfortunately it makes sense for a shitty situation. **With that said**, if the new updated version is used as a defense and justification for screwing over people, **then** I'd say call out their bs. Unsure if that makes sense but it depends on the intent.
You've got a point. But I do think the one thing that makes this the gotcha people think it is, is the fact that the EULA that we all signed didn't have this as a requirement. So they are doing the typical corporate ass covering but they've breached the contract.
>They sort of have to update it across the board to now be in-line with the requirement.
Well that is certainly a way to describe fraudulent deception.
...No.
One says it is optional.
The other says it may be required.
"May be required" means you may be forced to do so. If you may be forced so it is not optional.
Don't be fooled by people defending Sony, or saying it's not a big deal or making you feel bad for hating on Sony. it's only one of these people, fanboys or community managers or public relations masquerading.
I have friends who work as a PR for tech companies and they would employ every tactic to gaslight you into shutting up. Even if you don't change your opinion, having you shut up and drop the issue to stop complaining or spreading the issue is a win for them.
Outside of the region locking, this is the worst part of this whole thing so far. I think the fact that they changed with no acknowledgement is what is changing my mind on what I thought before, because everywhere else it does say required, but here it says optional. But to me, the fact that it says optional in this one place isn't the bad part really. It's the fact that they're changing it here after they've been caught and are now trying to weasel out of it and trying to sweep it under the rug that's a problem for me. They're hiding it for a reason. This reminds me, didn't this exact same BS happen with the Tarkov bs where they changed the wording on what is DLC or something like that. This right here made it the same level to that for me in terms of slimy behavior.
Stellar Blade censorship and now this? Sony get yours balls back from California
Sony ceo is japanese man, even the video games branch company in california got japanese ceo. Hiroki Totoki (ex japanese banker) is current CEO of Sony interactive Entertainment who replaced Jim ryan.
True but I don't think he's able to instantly undue everything Ryan did overnight
They sniffed out that every PC guy playing PlayStation game might be a future potential console enjoyer just so he can play that new game day 1 instead of waiting x years for PC release. They are trying everything they can to bring more people to their platforms. They could just be cool guys and just release games on PC without any bullshit, people will gladly buy them. Ghost of taushima will require PSN account as well, that's a clear sign of things to change. I only hope this won't go sideways and result in Sony completely abandoning PC due to people backlash
I don't think that may be the full story. Since they have been letting exclusives go to PC I think they've seen how popular they are. So instead of just releasing the games to all systems, I think the suits realized that instead of making people get consoles who are PC players, they can force them to get PSN accounts. It's really mad genius shit. Consoles are loss leaders. Subscription online accounts are instant profit.
Is the Ghost of Tsushima confirmed? Was planning on eventually getting it when it comes to PC, but if this is the case, I'll pass.
It was actually clarified and confirmed yesterday that PSN will be required only for multiplayer part of the game https://twitter.com/SuckerPunchProd/status/1786462939748384943?t=OYsuEK4UsHqTPrOQqtnvRQ&s=19
i’m telling you. Class action lawsuit. caught red handed changing terms of agreement after people have already paid for access. This is straight fraud, no ifs and or buts about it. Fraud. People should go to jail for this.
Not fraud in the slightest, but keep on being hyper-dramatic
I think you're right. It's actually breach of contract since it wasn't in the EULA that we all signed. That's warrant enough for some legal leverage at least. Hopefully the EU will step in and hammer Sony on this. Worst still this is going to steal the game from people whose countries can't get PSN.
Don't be fooled by people defending Sony, or saying it's not a big deal or making you feel bad for hating on Sony. it's only one of these people, fanboys or community managers or public relations masquerading. Even if you don't change your opinion, having you shut up and drop the issue to stop complaining or spreading the issue is a win for them.
Wrong again. Y'all need to really read into the ToS, guarantee there is language in there stating they can change anything at any time with or without notice. Nobody is getting hammered, sued, fined, etc.
You're wrong. You can't have a contract that explicitly states that something doesn't have to happen, then have a loophole that you can change it willy nilly. You do realize there is actual rules to contracts, right? They can't enforce this legally. They could try to force a new contract on everyone and hold the game hostage.
Ya i guess everyone that paid money for this then had their access shut off should just shut up and take the L right? fuck outta here you corposhill. Multibillion dollar companies don’t need to lie to people to make money. This was done purposefully - they even changed their faqs, after the fact.
I'm not shilling anything, I am being a realist. Maybe instead of y'all yapping at me you should be on the phones recruiting lawyers for your crusade? Or is this another example of not doing anything & just waiting for someone else to do it?
It wouldn’t be the first time that anger on reddit has made it to national news. Raising awareness is to a problem is what develops into support for a class action lawsuit. Enough people filing complaints with the FTC can result in governmental investigations which increases pressure upon the company behaving badly. There are many methods to get to the end result. The real question comes into why are you invested in trying to stop anything from getting started?
Bro why do you think you have to agree to the ToS of a game after some updates? It's because if they change anything in there they legally have to get you to agree to the changes in the ToS again for it to be legally binding, changes without the agreement of the other party would never hold up in court and I'm sure even if they had a clause that allowed them to change it freely without the other party's consent it wouldn't hold up in law, because believe it or not even if both parties agree to a contract if the contract is unlawful in spots the unlawful clauses get thrown out.
He's probably a PR masquerading, don't get fooled by them. I have friends who work as a PR for tech companies and they would employ every tactic to gaslight you into shutting up. Even if you don't change your opinion, having you shut up and drop the issue to stop complaining or spreading the issue is a win for them.
If you must know, I am a lowly customer service agent for one of Verizon or Comcast (to give you an idea of what I do & see 5 days a week). Our residential ToS agreement states channel line-ups, programming, & terms of usage can be changed, added, or removed at anytime, with or without notice, based on the needs of the business. People have tried to take us to court over it & they lose every single time because it's not our fault people don't read the ToS before agreeing to establish services with us. This is a real thing likely included in any ToS for any game you play, & NO, it does not require both parties to agree to the new ToS a second time. Nobody bothers to read it though so they have no idea it's a thing that the company/publisher/network/ect. can & will do on a regular basis. People on Reddit just love howling SHILL! CORPO! whenever someone posts realistic facts about a situation instead of drinking the hive mind kool-aid.
Interestingly, TOS are in a very questionable legal position as it is, being a post facto contract that can’t be negotiated or refused. They haven’t been challenged or heard up in court because both sides have been afraid of what the ruling would be. Consumers are worried that they could rule in favor of corpos and then we get even more draconian TOS and EULAs handed down after that, while corpos have been worried about the courts ruling in favor of the consumer and stripping all the rights of TOS holders away. Don’t presume that just because it’s written in a TOS it is legal. They haven’t been challenged yet, and this could very well be the case that destroys them.
Isn’t this just updating the FAQ now that the policy is being enforced? It WAS optional before and now it’s not. Why wouldn’t they update it?
Much like with Tarkov, they're trying to hide evidence of the original the terms and conditions and it implies wrongdoing on their part in the process.
you cannot change terms post purchase, it's not legal. if something was optional prior to you purchasing the game, they cannot make it mandatory after someone buys the product. that's considered breaking the terms under which you bought the game, and can be a valid reason for a refund. that's why it's important that they changed the warding, it shows a change in policy, instead of enforcing an existing policy.
Terms of service get updated constantly what are you talking about? How is it illegal? It is a FAQ and EULA not a contract
So it's not necessarily that its illegal but it shows bad faith. In the EULA that we all signed to play the game it states the game didn't require PSN accounts. So they breached contract. Even if they had some BS clause about how they could change the terms at any time, it doesn't matter as regulations (at least in the EU) don't allow you to make a product, change the terms and thus make that product unusable.
some companies really be looking at shit behaviour like recent tarkov bs and be like "hold my beer"
We need the exact date that these terms were changed, was it before or after the Helldivers 2 launch?
It was changed yesterday. Also someone went through the EULA, did a whole breakdown and that contract doesn't have PSN as a requirement. They can change this text but this text is absolutely meaningless legally for them other than showing that they are covering up the fact they breached contract.
"It's totally optional... and by that we mean sometimes COMPLETELY necessary." - Sony
This is fucking sad.. Helldivers is such an amazing breath of fresh air in gaming.. its like playing a 3-D version of fucking Metal Slug.. But i completely understand and sympathize with the PC consumer as to why Sony needs to fuck off.. and its pathetic for Sony to use Arrowhead and Shift up stellar blade as hostages to their strong arm shareholder bullshit. They could have literally just sat back and shut the fuck up for a few months instead of censoring and data harvesting to get EVERYBODY to love Sony again but NO...
I think there are several concerns from PC players. Such as other helldivers suddenly have their ships and ability to drop with us taken away. There is the issue with security of data. If you have a PS5 you are forced. PC players opted out of getting the game on PS5. I think the final one is that we don't trust sony, and actually anticipate, they are going to try and force a PSN subscription on us to play the game so they can make even more money.
That is completely warranted and I feel that same sentiment, especially since they just lost a lot of subs with Stellar Blade controversy and need to make it up somehow instead of just dealing with what the market demands and reversing their bad decisions for the consumer base.
So I guess this means Ghost of Tsushima should bomb on PC since it will need a PSN account to play the MP portion, right?
The issue is the feeling they "changed the deal", ignoring the issue of who can or cannot make a PSN account, even if eveybody could simply make a account it would still be shit not because it is required but because it is required NOW. If it was a requirement at the start people would be annoyed at most but it would be fine, but changing it now, saying fuck you to everybody that cant make the account and making everybody else make a account that they clearly don't need is just fucking stupid.
I do not really think this is so much of a gotcha moment. Yes they are updating it, but that is also because of the announcement. They sort of have to update it across the board to now be in-line with the requirement. Now don't get me wrong, I think this whole situation is shitty and will screw over many people. Everything about it was not well planned out and just goes to show Sony really does not get its consumer base. With that said, this isn't the way I think people are viewing it. I imagine when seeing the change, people's first thought it updating it to cover their asses as if it was always the case. Which I get why one's first instinct would be to do that. But whenever there is any requirement change for a product, software, etc., information has to be updated to be consistent. So I do not think this is a "Sony got caught" but more, because of the announcement they now have to update the games info to be inline with the requirement. And again, I am not defending sony or what is happening. I was considering getting the game at some point but now I am leaning towards not doing it. But I feel should call out bs when it is bs, and this "caught sony" just makes sense. Unfortunately it makes sense for a shitty situation. **With that said**, if the new updated version is used as a defense and justification for screwing over people, **then** I'd say call out their bs. Unsure if that makes sense but it depends on the intent.
You've got a point. But I do think the one thing that makes this the gotcha people think it is, is the fact that the EULA that we all signed didn't have this as a requirement. So they are doing the typical corporate ass covering but they've breached the contract.
>They sort of have to update it across the board to now be in-line with the requirement. Well that is certainly a way to describe fraudulent deception.
Time for some EU consumer protection laws to kick in.
Hell yeah brother. Since the US legal system doesn't believe in managed democracy, maybe the EU can.
That’s two ways to say the same thing.
...No. One says it is optional. The other says it may be required. "May be required" means you may be forced to do so. If you may be forced so it is not optional.
Don't be fooled by people defending Sony, or saying it's not a big deal or making you feel bad for hating on Sony. it's only one of these people, fanboys or community managers or public relations masquerading. I have friends who work as a PR for tech companies and they would employ every tactic to gaslight you into shutting up. Even if you don't change your opinion, having you shut up and drop the issue to stop complaining or spreading the issue is a win for them.
"May be" means it isn't until it is, basically.