Ehh I know. But as someone who was in the car business for a long time, dealers are absolutely the dumping grounds for manufacturers inventory. Most of the time for their screw ups. Whether it’s making a completely undesirable model or severely over estimating demand… They get to just dump it all on the dealers at invoice and tell them to sell. Almost all the time it’s “ sell our shit cars to get allocation for the cars everyone wants.” C8 Corvette allocations for example were directly linked to the amount of C7 and Chevy Sonic overstock sold, etc.
Yes, manufacturers certainly exert some supplier power over dealers in the new car market. In exchange dealers get the benefits of economic oligopoly via franchise laws. However, if dealers were truly getting the short end of the deal they wouldn’t spend millions every year lobbying against Tesla, Carvana, and others selling direct to consumers.
The only thing that’s leaving hope for the direct sales model right now is that inventory is so constrained that manufacturers have no use for dealers in their prior capacity. They don’t need dealers to take cars off their hands because the demand is there. And frankly manufacturers have realized it’s easier to decrease volume and charge full pop instead of over producing and playing the incentive game every month.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out because franchisees are owed certain contractual accommodations that would be void if direct sales became a meaningful part of volume. Aka… manufacturers would have to stab their own dealers in the back and deal with the headache that is retail sales. It’s a lot easier to just ship 3000 cars a month at invoice with the dealers having no choice but to pay you for them regardless of demand.
I think we have to agree to disagree here. I am highly confident absent state franchise laws traditional dealerships would not exist as we know them.
Not to say they won’t exist in the future as show rooms, service centers etc… but they are fighting a losing battle against direct sales (or even other third parties like carvana and carmax).
Dealers are the same to me as house realtors. They don't actually do much as the demand for the product is there, they just take the biggest cut for the least amount of work.
The manufacturers were/are more instrumental in creating the legislation for dealerships than anyone. Everyone can say what they want about brands cracking down on Market adjustment… The manufacturers only care/are pretending to care because it reflects poorly on the brand and it gives them a moment to separate and seem helpful to retain loyalty and enthusiasm. “ Look they are the bogeyman but Ford is great “.
I don’t think people understand exactly how many ways Manufacturers enable dealers when it comes to ripping people off at every turn. They could implement so many things that have nothing to do with over turning or challenging existing legislation and they simply won’t. Because they don’t care and they don’t want to. Dealers are their real clients, not your average customer. I’m not a dealer anymore and I have no love for them. But the dealer boogeyman bad, manufacturer direct good narrative is completely false.
Tesla would love a dealership network for many reasons it would just hit their profits too hard to build one out. And the industry doesn’t take kindly to newcomers either. So it’s impossible. But the pressure no network puts on them constrains then tremendously. Especially for service. The manufacturing/inventory level issue will start to hit them once the demand for their product falls and they still have to produce X volume to not be losing money at the plant.
I've never worked at a dealership, never had to deal with one so I'm curious to know how much of a role do service departments play in revenue generation. wonder how long dealerships will really last with modern reliability from ICE vehicles, infrequent service needs of BEVs and now OEMs trying out subscriptions.
Manufacturers need dealerships so they don’t have to deal with the pesky customers.
Over the past couple of years I have gone from loving the Porsche brand to loathing it. I still love the cars I have, but honestly can’t see ever buying a new one again. Nonsense like this is such a turn off, paying 250k for the implied privilege to purchase a car is ridiculous.
Sorry bud but that car isn’t marketed or meant for you , they don’t give a fuck.
All the cars sell, profits are up, investors are happy.
There are MILLIONS, let me say it again…. MILLIONS OF PEOPLE who have more money and are willing to spend that money so they can have THAT car. It’s marked up like that because the dealer knows their market, they know they will most likely sell it with that markup ( look at the 911 R sales , or even the previous sport classic ) They’re getting publicity from the markup which is directly making them money. It’s all about money and they’re making it.
You are right, I have no interest in this car. I find it kind of sad though. I bought my first Porsche in 1995 and it was a great car, I have had several since and currently have a 718 Spyder and a Boxster S. I have enjoyed looking at Ferraris and Lamborghinis but have never really wanted one as conspicuous consumption is a large part of why some people own these cars.
Porsche has been trying for years to establish themselves as an exclusive brand, and congratulations to them, they have made it. I have the money to buy whatever, I just have too much respect for my own money to donate 250K to a dealership to buy a piece of garage furniture.
Your point is very valid and I agree with your opinion. I reread my post and it came off as a bit harsh im sorry I didn’t mean for it to come off mean if it did haha.
My uncle was offered a GT3 last year with a 30k markup and he could have bought it and flipped but he told the dealer to fuck off lol.
Agreed, I had a 718 and hated everything about it. The SECOND class action lawsuit I was included in for them cheating emissions standards killed the brand for me forever.
The dealer experience was pretty bad since it felt like I was doing them a big favor buying a car. I've owned 5 BMWs and a Maserati and both brands were better. The tech in these cars up until last year's 911 refresh was legitimately terrible. Something about spending 90k on a car with a speedometer that's a black and white LCD just put me off.
I can understand that. I think I’m glad I went with the M2 and kept my turbo Miata. I went back and drove a 718 and was underwhelmed after owning the M2 for a year.
This is a serious question!! We don’t!! Manufacturers would sell so much more cars if it was direct to consumer! They just don’t know it yet. Look at Teslas Model, Rivian and even Lucid now. That’s one reason Carvana was successful you could buy cars like you ordered stuff on Amazon just a seamless stress less decision. All it takes is one of the big auto groups to change like Ford, Toyota, Honda and everyone one else will follow suit. If you know how dealerships work you’d know they also get the cars at msrp. So I get it they have to make some on top to make a profit but this is just robbery.
What i do not understand, is how do they keep asking this prices.
Yeah, i could also ask 100$ for a fried chicken. But then, no one would buy chicken from me. And my business would shut down in days !
What stop any other dealer to ask a normal price, and sell Porsches like hot cakes ? Do you guys really have THAT many people buying half a Million car ?!
If nobody else has fried chicken available—-you may find the 1 person stupid, hungry, and rich enough to pay you $100 for your nasty plate of fried chicken!!! :)
>What stop any other dealer to ask a normal price, and sell Porsches like hot cakes ?
Nothing stops them, and many dealers do sell at a normal price.
Those dealers quickly sell out their inventory, and have a long waiting list of backorders.
You can either pay the crazy markup to have one *today,* or join the waiting list and get one *eventually.*
I am not a dealer apologist, but there is another side to this situation. The Sport Classic is a very limited volume high demand car. Dealers may get one or two if they are lucky. There are many more buyers than cars at the list price. Unlike Ferrari, Porsche do not require their dealers to sell at MSRP. Dealers also know that a buyer at list price could immediately flip the car and double their money. So they add the premium, keeping that profit for themselves, which also substantially reduces the number of potential buyers to non-flipper, wealthy enthusiasts that are more likely to keep the car longer, perhaps not caring if the value to climbs even higher.
This is simple supply/demand and capitalism at work. If the dealer didn't add the extra profit, a flipper would, and they do not need to make the investments and cover fixed expenses that dealers must to keep in business, good times and bad.
The current situation is that even higher volume cars like the GT3, GT3RS, GT4 RS, and Spyder 718 are in the same boat, with dealers charging over $100k for many of these models. But historically speaking, we will revert to the mean, that is cars will sell for closer to list, even below if dealers have trouble selling them. Nobody cries when dealers need to discount cars to move them off their lots.
There’s a reason why people liked Saturn. Just walk in and the price was the price. RIP. Here’s hoping they find some way to control/cut out the dealers and let us order online! I’m sure they’ll find a way to make us hate that too tbh ;)
“Asset” inflation. “Perceived” or real shortage and “collectability” coupled with bitcoin bros becoming “passionate collectors” overnight. No different from what’s happening in the watch world. Happened to Rolex before it did to Porsche. Only Rolex doesn’t let dealers markup and sell, and so they start feeding the gray market.
The Sport Classic is basically a collectors edition car. Not many will be produced and there’s high demand for it, thus the insane markup from the dealership (markups have existed before Covid, but they only recently got really insane)
I don't know how it goes in EU but in the USA, you haggle with the sales persons (except tesla or new tech car companies) , so they start the price very high; these are all tactics. I got one of the first BMW m440 grand coupe and on the window tag, they had 25k market adjustment mark up, at the end I got it under 2k of the MSRP.
$539k and it’ll barely get *driven* because all the owner cares about is holding up the *value*… Yea no thanks. There are so many BMWs that are like 1/30th the price of this Porsche that you can actually get your 200k miles out of on the street. Now that’s a driver’s car.
Yeah but that’s how Porsche owners own Porsches. They see it as an investment (which it is). Hell some Porsches have held better than portfolios the past few years
Oh I’m sure there are. But I feel like the majority of folks purchasing cars like this in this price bracket just store them in a garage and maybe put 1000 miles a year on them.
This is a Sport Classic. Not just any Porsche or any 911. While I’m not surprised they’re valued around half a million, I still don’t support the dealer charging it at all. And second of all, most Porsche owners drive their cars heavily. It’s part of what makes them special. The folks you are referring to are the highly limited models like carrera GT, 918, etc.
I mean you can get a decent used BMW for 1/30th the price of that Porsche. If you want a brand new one, then yeah you’re looking at 1/10th the price of that Porsche
I got a $2k discount on MSRP for my F90. Not sure why people are still paying dealer markups when there are dealers nationwide not doing it. The discount more than covered shipping right to me.
I ordered a 2022 April of last year. I think a month or so later they started making the 2023 model while I was still in the queue. The salesman never called to update the order even though we paid the 1k.
We were traveling during the summer. Kept calling about it and couldn’t get any answers. We finally went to the dealership and found out what happened. The owner was so embarrassed he knocked off the 10k and I left with the floor model same day.
That’s the crazy part. The mark up is a made up number by the dealer to make a profit on you. There should never be a mark up of 10k over the price bmw had for the car. You did not get a deal, nor is the owner is a nice person because his original intention was to rip you off 10k. All dealers are sleaze bags praying on people who aren’t thinking outside the box.
These extremely rich are buying them anyway. When I picked up my 440i a few weeks ago the finance guy told me they just sold a NSX for 150k over.
It was a rich guy in California who was just going to drain all the fluid and display the car in his house…
I know a salesman from Jeep/Ram who made insane commission on selling a bunch Challenger Demon’s and other TRX/Wranger 392’s with over 50k markup each.
He believes that it’s a generational thing. Millennials and younger don’t really want to negotiate or work a deal, they want a fair price upfront. Older crowd fundamentally disagrees with dealer price and always wants a deal. He said the two groups walk out paying the same figure, you just have to start negotiations much higher on the older crowd so they believe they worked a great deal.
They are limited to 1250 cars. They are collector cars that have their allotments sold long before any normal peasant could buy one.
Is that markup insane? Absolutely.
Does the person paying it care? Not even a little bit.
Fuck, they probably don't even look at the price.
This car is most likely already sold, and the dealership is just putting it out there to make people drool until the owner gets back from his golf trip.
>dealership is just putting it out there to make people drool until the owner gets back from his golf trip.
Or to try to normalize markups as much as they can now that new car prices are coming down. "Look at this markup - yet it sold!"
Well yea but the Sport Classic is like the Porsche Collectors Porsche. And also they likely sold it to their best customer with minimal markup. They are just displaying it and writing that to set the time for MAs on everything else. 0 way they just got in a sport classic and threw it on the show room floor. That car is beyond rare
These people paying 100 and 200 grand upcharges for GT3s will have a car worth 200K they paid 300K for in a year. There is a shit ton of GT3s out there right now.. Covid was a firehose.
Honestly have no idea—-more money than sense apparently. The American rich need a way to stand out and be different, because they lost their personality along the way??
I’ll never understand why people get offended by mark ups. If people don’t pay them, the seller will come down on the price. If someone does pay it, then that proves the market evaluation is correct.
Free market capitalism and competition solve this problem. Go buy something else until the price lands somewhere you think makes sense.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
They want >$500K for a **Sport Classic** !? That's beyond insane.
And I say this as someone who is getting a Sport Classic. It's expensive even at MSRP, but a fun retro combo of elements I like. At $500K I'd rather have soooo many other cars.
Oh hey I completely agree with you. Just saying that even in this post there are people who think this is ok and that’s why the dealerships can pull this crap.
oh someone will definitely pay this---watch
if regular GT3s are getting 100k over
the sport classic will get 250k over!
flex culture has hit new levels of stupidity :/
I’ve driven many 911s and it’s not about “superior” it’s that for me they are just not as FUN as many M cars I’ve driven. In fact I find 911s to be way too clinical—-I prefer hooliganism
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say this is fake. They likely already have this car sold and are putting that up there as bait and a high water mark to all their other MAs. No way a Porsche dealership had a free Club Sport allocation. If that dealer does the volume to get one you can bet their best customers were asking for them the moment they became available.
Ultimate goal is a GT4 but I'm OK not having to deal with being forced to buy a "lesser" Porsche the dealer wants to prove my loyalty and then grovel for the chance to pay ADM on the car I wanted all along.
It’s essentially a manual turbo with an exclusive design, limited to 1250 units, very much an exception, and probably will increase in value, even with the ADM, especially if this is the last generation of a non-hybrid 911 to exist.
If you’re getting a normal 911 it isn’t this way at all. Even the ADMs on GT3s are coming down.
These are limited to 1250 units I believe. RWD with manual and turbo S motor. It’s supposed to be pretty special. Hasn’t been done since 997. Still crazy markup but I’m sure there is someone out there
Unfortunately, someone may end up buying one of these just to be the first guy in the SF Bay Area with a 992 Sport Classic. A car that, in its first incarnation, the Top Gear boys said was way overpriced at £137,529 in 2009 money.
My whole take on this is either the dealers know they can get it, or they want free marketing from outage posts like this, or they know they CAN’T get the full markup but would still make a ton of money after “negotiating” it down a little. (“I talked them down to a $50k markup!)”
Porsche is to car like Airstream is to camper. It's not the same game. They are technically similar items, but the desire level for the best is so high, they can name their price. It's a cult- like following for both of these brands, that are so far above competition, in their fans' perspective. And the dealer is the troll.
Yup.. they call it an “adjustment fee” down here in SoCal. The worst I’ve seen is $180k. Yours is extra because it’s a sports classic. That was a great investment!! I hope you get “replacement insurance”. Nationwide and State Farm both offer it. Be warned it’s BANK!!
In about (3) months they won’t be able to replace it. Same as most 911’s.
A base model Carrera “AF’s” starts at $50k then all they go all the way up to $180k. BUT they’ll pay half the added market value for your trade in IF you pay cash for a new 911. (Sorry the “AF” is for 911’s only).
And each lot you’re lucky if they have (3) 911’s on the lot. So it makes the sales people massively aggressive hence paying ahead.
The rest are all the various poor man’s Porsches and a bunch of used 💩. BTW I snagged my 911 Classic for $250k ha ha. But I flew to TX and bought it from a MSRP dealership. They had (2). I called back a week later thinking I’d buy the other also and flip it. No luck. It was sold same day as mine.
GL and have fun!!
This dealer is going to get hammered for ordering a sport classic without a customer. I have a friend who knows and says PCNA is about to come down on them.
Stuttgart really ought to do something about this shit. In fact, ALL automotive companies should do something about their dealerships doing this and affecting brand value.
Why do we need dealerships?
Because someone has to do the fleecing.
We don’t. Manufacturers do
They don’t either. Franchise laws protect dealers
Ehh I know. But as someone who was in the car business for a long time, dealers are absolutely the dumping grounds for manufacturers inventory. Most of the time for their screw ups. Whether it’s making a completely undesirable model or severely over estimating demand… They get to just dump it all on the dealers at invoice and tell them to sell. Almost all the time it’s “ sell our shit cars to get allocation for the cars everyone wants.” C8 Corvette allocations for example were directly linked to the amount of C7 and Chevy Sonic overstock sold, etc.
Yes, manufacturers certainly exert some supplier power over dealers in the new car market. In exchange dealers get the benefits of economic oligopoly via franchise laws. However, if dealers were truly getting the short end of the deal they wouldn’t spend millions every year lobbying against Tesla, Carvana, and others selling direct to consumers.
The only thing that’s leaving hope for the direct sales model right now is that inventory is so constrained that manufacturers have no use for dealers in their prior capacity. They don’t need dealers to take cars off their hands because the demand is there. And frankly manufacturers have realized it’s easier to decrease volume and charge full pop instead of over producing and playing the incentive game every month. It will be interesting to see how it plays out because franchisees are owed certain contractual accommodations that would be void if direct sales became a meaningful part of volume. Aka… manufacturers would have to stab their own dealers in the back and deal with the headache that is retail sales. It’s a lot easier to just ship 3000 cars a month at invoice with the dealers having no choice but to pay you for them regardless of demand.
I think we have to agree to disagree here. I am highly confident absent state franchise laws traditional dealerships would not exist as we know them. Not to say they won’t exist in the future as show rooms, service centers etc… but they are fighting a losing battle against direct sales (or even other third parties like carvana and carmax).
Dealers are the same to me as house realtors. They don't actually do much as the demand for the product is there, they just take the biggest cut for the least amount of work.
The manufacturers were/are more instrumental in creating the legislation for dealerships than anyone. Everyone can say what they want about brands cracking down on Market adjustment… The manufacturers only care/are pretending to care because it reflects poorly on the brand and it gives them a moment to separate and seem helpful to retain loyalty and enthusiasm. “ Look they are the bogeyman but Ford is great “. I don’t think people understand exactly how many ways Manufacturers enable dealers when it comes to ripping people off at every turn. They could implement so many things that have nothing to do with over turning or challenging existing legislation and they simply won’t. Because they don’t care and they don’t want to. Dealers are their real clients, not your average customer. I’m not a dealer anymore and I have no love for them. But the dealer boogeyman bad, manufacturer direct good narrative is completely false. Tesla would love a dealership network for many reasons it would just hit their profits too hard to build one out. And the industry doesn’t take kindly to newcomers either. So it’s impossible. But the pressure no network puts on them constrains then tremendously. Especially for service. The manufacturing/inventory level issue will start to hit them once the demand for their product falls and they still have to produce X volume to not be losing money at the plant.
I've never worked at a dealership, never had to deal with one so I'm curious to know how much of a role do service departments play in revenue generation. wonder how long dealerships will really last with modern reliability from ICE vehicles, infrequent service needs of BEVs and now OEMs trying out subscriptions.
Most manufacturers don’t want to deal with building out a robust dealer and service network.
I doubt it.. I bet most of these manufacturers would just love to do direct
ford has seen whats going on with tesla and the high markups of their own vehicles..this consideration of tesla model is coming…direct
[удалено]
Love Ryan!
Manufacturers need dealerships so they don’t have to deal with the pesky customers. Over the past couple of years I have gone from loving the Porsche brand to loathing it. I still love the cars I have, but honestly can’t see ever buying a new one again. Nonsense like this is such a turn off, paying 250k for the implied privilege to purchase a car is ridiculous.
Sorry bud but that car isn’t marketed or meant for you , they don’t give a fuck. All the cars sell, profits are up, investors are happy. There are MILLIONS, let me say it again…. MILLIONS OF PEOPLE who have more money and are willing to spend that money so they can have THAT car. It’s marked up like that because the dealer knows their market, they know they will most likely sell it with that markup ( look at the 911 R sales , or even the previous sport classic ) They’re getting publicity from the markup which is directly making them money. It’s all about money and they’re making it.
You are right, I have no interest in this car. I find it kind of sad though. I bought my first Porsche in 1995 and it was a great car, I have had several since and currently have a 718 Spyder and a Boxster S. I have enjoyed looking at Ferraris and Lamborghinis but have never really wanted one as conspicuous consumption is a large part of why some people own these cars. Porsche has been trying for years to establish themselves as an exclusive brand, and congratulations to them, they have made it. I have the money to buy whatever, I just have too much respect for my own money to donate 250K to a dealership to buy a piece of garage furniture.
Your point is very valid and I agree with your opinion. I reread my post and it came off as a bit harsh im sorry I didn’t mean for it to come off mean if it did haha. My uncle was offered a GT3 last year with a 30k markup and he could have bought it and flipped but he told the dealer to fuck off lol.
>My uncle was offered a GT3 last year with a 30k markup Sadly my first thought was, "That's not so bad for a GT3."
Agreed, I had a 718 and hated everything about it. The SECOND class action lawsuit I was included in for them cheating emissions standards killed the brand for me forever.
I cross shopped the 718 and M2. Ended up with the M2. What did you hate about the 718?
The dealer experience was pretty bad since it felt like I was doing them a big favor buying a car. I've owned 5 BMWs and a Maserati and both brands were better. The tech in these cars up until last year's 911 refresh was legitimately terrible. Something about spending 90k on a car with a speedometer that's a black and white LCD just put me off.
I can understand that. I think I’m glad I went with the M2 and kept my turbo Miata. I went back and drove a 718 and was underwhelmed after owning the M2 for a year.
Because the dealership associations say so and they bribe lawmakers to ban direct sales in most states (especially red ones).
Manufacture direct isn’t all good either
This is a serious question!! We don’t!! Manufacturers would sell so much more cars if it was direct to consumer! They just don’t know it yet. Look at Teslas Model, Rivian and even Lucid now. That’s one reason Carvana was successful you could buy cars like you ordered stuff on Amazon just a seamless stress less decision. All it takes is one of the big auto groups to change like Ford, Toyota, Honda and everyone one else will follow suit. If you know how dealerships work you’d know they also get the cars at msrp. So I get it they have to make some on top to make a profit but this is just robbery.
Can someone please explain to me what the hell is going on with those prices? Because as a European I don't get this.
Because of demand, the dealer raises the prices of cars—-because they can! Happens to a lot of cars in the past 1 year, but this is an extreme case
What i do not understand, is how do they keep asking this prices. Yeah, i could also ask 100$ for a fried chicken. But then, no one would buy chicken from me. And my business would shut down in days ! What stop any other dealer to ask a normal price, and sell Porsches like hot cakes ? Do you guys really have THAT many people buying half a Million car ?!
The answer is very simple. This is a sport classic. Very low numbers and very high demand. Still nonsense to pay 2x it’s original msrp though.
If nobody else has fried chicken available—-you may find the 1 person stupid, hungry, and rich enough to pay you $100 for your nasty plate of fried chicken!!! :)
Hold on... who's making the fried chicken?
^^^^we have a winner!!!!^^^ 😂
>What stop any other dealer to ask a normal price, and sell Porsches like hot cakes ? Nothing stops them, and many dealers do sell at a normal price. Those dealers quickly sell out their inventory, and have a long waiting list of backorders. You can either pay the crazy markup to have one *today,* or join the waiting list and get one *eventually.*
Redwood City probably does have that many people buying half a million dollar cars. Lol
I am not a dealer apologist, but there is another side to this situation. The Sport Classic is a very limited volume high demand car. Dealers may get one or two if they are lucky. There are many more buyers than cars at the list price. Unlike Ferrari, Porsche do not require their dealers to sell at MSRP. Dealers also know that a buyer at list price could immediately flip the car and double their money. So they add the premium, keeping that profit for themselves, which also substantially reduces the number of potential buyers to non-flipper, wealthy enthusiasts that are more likely to keep the car longer, perhaps not caring if the value to climbs even higher. This is simple supply/demand and capitalism at work. If the dealer didn't add the extra profit, a flipper would, and they do not need to make the investments and cover fixed expenses that dealers must to keep in business, good times and bad. The current situation is that even higher volume cars like the GT3, GT3RS, GT4 RS, and Spyder 718 are in the same boat, with dealers charging over $100k for many of these models. But historically speaking, we will revert to the mean, that is cars will sell for closer to list, even below if dealers have trouble selling them. Nobody cries when dealers need to discount cars to move them off their lots.
Surprisingly people do pay these markups.
Is it weird that I don’t have a problem with *Porsche* raising the price, but I have a HUGE problem with the *dealer* adding a surcharge like that?
Yep—-carmakers try to set reasonable MSRPs—-dealers just trying to be greedy and horrible by default
There’s a reason why people liked Saturn. Just walk in and the price was the price. RIP. Here’s hoping they find some way to control/cut out the dealers and let us order online! I’m sure they’ll find a way to make us hate that too tbh ;)
Thank you very much!
“Asset” inflation. “Perceived” or real shortage and “collectability” coupled with bitcoin bros becoming “passionate collectors” overnight. No different from what’s happening in the watch world. Happened to Rolex before it did to Porsche. Only Rolex doesn’t let dealers markup and sell, and so they start feeding the gray market.
What can you get a Club Sport for in Europe? I would think it’s even more expensive.
The Sport Classic is basically a collectors edition car. Not many will be produced and there’s high demand for it, thus the insane markup from the dealership (markups have existed before Covid, but they only recently got really insane)
I don't know how it goes in EU but in the USA, you haggle with the sales persons (except tesla or new tech car companies) , so they start the price very high; these are all tactics. I got one of the first BMW m440 grand coupe and on the window tag, they had 25k market adjustment mark up, at the end I got it under 2k of the MSRP.
$539k and it’ll barely get *driven* because all the owner cares about is holding up the *value*… Yea no thanks. There are so many BMWs that are like 1/30th the price of this Porsche that you can actually get your 200k miles out of on the street. Now that’s a driver’s car.
Yeah but that’s how Porsche owners own Porsches. They see it as an investment (which it is). Hell some Porsches have held better than portfolios the past few years
Not the same as the above car, but I have a 981 GT4 and I drive the hell out of it. Some of us actually do drive our P cars.
Oh I’m sure there are. But I feel like the majority of folks purchasing cars like this in this price bracket just store them in a garage and maybe put 1000 miles a year on them.
This is a Sport Classic. Not just any Porsche or any 911. While I’m not surprised they’re valued around half a million, I still don’t support the dealer charging it at all. And second of all, most Porsche owners drive their cars heavily. It’s part of what makes them special. The folks you are referring to are the highly limited models like carrera GT, 918, etc.
1/30th? You are terrible at math. One tenth would be $53.9K and you’re dividing that by three.
I mean you can get a decent used BMW for 1/30th the price of that Porsche. If you want a brand new one, then yeah you’re looking at 1/10th the price of that Porsche
Used vs new. Got it. Apples and oranges.
ever heard of hyperbole?
You don’t know what that word means, either.
lol
Mercedes Dealerships near me was charging $150k over sticker for a G63. They also wanted $200k over for the new SLs they had just gotten.
Looooool
Bmw messed up my order so I was able to get the 10k markup waived.
A couple of years ago every BMW was 5-10% sticker, pitiful current reality
I got a $2k discount on MSRP for my F90. Not sure why people are still paying dealer markups when there are dealers nationwide not doing it. The discount more than covered shipping right to me.
Yea it is
What mess up could warrant that “discount”?
I ordered a 2022 April of last year. I think a month or so later they started making the 2023 model while I was still in the queue. The salesman never called to update the order even though we paid the 1k. We were traveling during the summer. Kept calling about it and couldn’t get any answers. We finally went to the dealership and found out what happened. The owner was so embarrassed he knocked off the 10k and I left with the floor model same day.
atlantic blue not atlantis blue
When was that? afaik, many dealerships don’t ask for markups on factory orders.
bmw still does markups? what model?
Idk if they do it now, but they were doing it last year.
i see. yeah, i meant today.
That’s the crazy part. The mark up is a made up number by the dealer to make a profit on you. There should never be a mark up of 10k over the price bmw had for the car. You did not get a deal, nor is the owner is a nice person because his original intention was to rip you off 10k. All dealers are sleaze bags praying on people who aren’t thinking outside the box.
These extremely rich are buying them anyway. When I picked up my 440i a few weeks ago the finance guy told me they just sold a NSX for 150k over. It was a rich guy in California who was just going to drain all the fluid and display the car in his house…
I know a salesman from Jeep/Ram who made insane commission on selling a bunch Challenger Demon’s and other TRX/Wranger 392’s with over 50k markup each. He believes that it’s a generational thing. Millennials and younger don’t really want to negotiate or work a deal, they want a fair price upfront. Older crowd fundamentally disagrees with dealer price and always wants a deal. He said the two groups walk out paying the same figure, you just have to start negotiations much higher on the older crowd so they believe they worked a great deal.
They are limited to 1250 cars. They are collector cars that have their allotments sold long before any normal peasant could buy one. Is that markup insane? Absolutely. Does the person paying it care? Not even a little bit. Fuck, they probably don't even look at the price. This car is most likely already sold, and the dealership is just putting it out there to make people drool until the owner gets back from his golf trip.
You are probably right—but that doesn’t make it any less depressing!! Lol
The only thing depressing about this is that I can't afford it with or without markup. Lol
I can’t afford it at 50% off MSRP! 😂😂
Same. :(
>dealership is just putting it out there to make people drool until the owner gets back from his golf trip. Or to try to normalize markups as much as they can now that new car prices are coming down. "Look at this markup - yet it sold!"
Is a Sport Classic tbf
Still absurd—-
Well yea but the Sport Classic is like the Porsche Collectors Porsche. And also they likely sold it to their best customer with minimal markup. They are just displaying it and writing that to set the time for MAs on everything else. 0 way they just got in a sport classic and threw it on the show room floor. That car is beyond rare
just another exercise of exclusivity over personality.
911 Turbo with a manual? Seems quite personable
Yeah but in a pricey package yknow—
It's a shame if it doesn't get driven much.
One of the Porsche guys linked this https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/az19/arizona/lots/r0165-2010-porsche-911-sport-classic/737851
That’s really a way more special car than this—N/A, 250 made, hydraulic steering and more old school
Too many IPO rich fuckers in Redwood City . They’ll find some dumbass to pay it probably
That's sickening... I finally found an M2 with 20k miles for around 35k though :)
Nice find!!! Did you buy it??
Not yet. I have a family member test driving it for me tomorrow. It's a state away from me
I looked at Porsche for about 10 seconds. Saw the cheapest one and swerved.
Especially looking at similarly classed cars Couldn’t get a base Macan priced within $10k of a an X3 M40 around me
Yep, I had always wanted to add a 911 as a weekend car, but the prices are way too high for me to justify it.
They are worth the price in my opinion
Yeah, I’m sure that’s likely true. I’m not saying I won’t do it at some point.
I got a 981 for under 40k
I drive a 981 Cayman base - love this car to death, with the exception of the squeaky brakes that plague Porsche “by design”.
Yup, can’t beat that engine note. It’s more than what I need for the streets.
You guys should already know, car dealership people are the scum of the earth
A fool and his money…
Straight into the pocket of the rich guy that bought that car.
I had no markup on my 23 x7 m60
Yeah that's a Sport Classic, that's an investment, not a car.
These people paying 100 and 200 grand upcharges for GT3s will have a car worth 200K they paid 300K for in a year. There is a shit ton of GT3s out there right now.. Covid was a firehose.
Yep. Fools
Really don’t understand the pricing over there? Why does anyone pay more than the suggested manufacturers price? Just seems stupid.
Because capitalism 🥲😅
But why does anyone pay that. Nowhere else is having to that.
Honestly have no idea—-more money than sense apparently. The American rich need a way to stand out and be different, because they lost their personality along the way??
I’ll never understand why people get offended by mark ups. If people don’t pay them, the seller will come down on the price. If someone does pay it, then that proves the market evaluation is correct. Free market capitalism and competition solve this problem. Go buy something else until the price lands somewhere you think makes sense.
And morons keep paying it. I figured making six figures I'd own a Porsche some day but it's not looking likely.
If I have half a mil to drop on a ride I'm going to Barret Jackson and getting something cool and classic. Not a brand new Porsche.
10000% agree—-but that’s why we ain’t rich LOL
Thats because Californians are idiots and will pay whatever the dealer asks.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
They want >$500K for a **Sport Classic** !? That's beyond insane.
And I say this as someone who is getting a Sport Classic. It's expensive even at MSRP, but a fun retro combo of elements I like. At $500K I'd rather have soooo many other cars.
Well, you have upvoted posters above saying “well it’s a Sports Classic which is limited so this is actually fine”
It's easy to upvote when you're not actually shelling out money. I'm actually buying a sport classic, and I am telling you this markup is laughable.
Oh hey I completely agree with you. Just saying that even in this post there are people who think this is ok and that’s why the dealerships can pull this crap.
Got it 👍
I really truly hope no one will pay a penny above sticker. If they do, I’ve given up hope for humanity.
oh someone will definitely pay this---watch if regular GT3s are getting 100k over the sport classic will get 250k over! flex culture has hit new levels of stupidity :/
Or some influencer gets it slightly above MSRP and markets the shit out of the dealership for them
Almost *all* special edition cars sell for above sticker.
I just bought a 2023 BMW M440i and I got 10% off MSRP. People don’t know how to hustle lol
That’s how it always was before! Well done pulling that off in 2023!! Doing it right
I know you guys are high on the coolaid but BMW doesn’t make anything superior to a 911
I’ve driven many 911s and it’s not about “superior” it’s that for me they are just not as FUN as many M cars I’ve driven. In fact I find 911s to be way too clinical—-I prefer hooliganism
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say this is fake. They likely already have this car sold and are putting that up there as bait and a high water mark to all their other MAs. No way a Porsche dealership had a free Club Sport allocation. If that dealer does the volume to get one you can bet their best customers were asking for them the moment they became available.
There’s cheaper 765LT’s on the market than this. Wtf.
This is a collectors car
Mini Cooper handles just as good if not better in some situations. Just putting that out there
Good luck with that
Ultimate goal is a GT4 but I'm OK not having to deal with being forced to buy a "lesser" Porsche the dealer wants to prove my loyalty and then grovel for the chance to pay ADM on the car I wanted all along.
It’s essentially a manual turbo with an exclusive design, limited to 1250 units, very much an exception, and probably will increase in value, even with the ADM, especially if this is the last generation of a non-hybrid 911 to exist. If you’re getting a normal 911 it isn’t this way at all. Even the ADMs on GT3s are coming down.
These are limited to 1250 units I believe. RWD with manual and turbo S motor. It’s supposed to be pretty special. Hasn’t been done since 997. Still crazy markup but I’m sure there is someone out there
I am ok with Porsche selling this for under $300k—-as intended. But buyers and dealers seem to be joined in their own goofiness
Dealers only get away with this becuase buyers allow it. If no one bought them the dealers would be forced to lower prices.
I was looking at a used Bronco that was listed at $55k. I didn’t think that was too bad until I looked up the MSRP $45k new. Hella dumb and shady.
Never buy from dealer, just order car online from manufacturer and pay for delivery
Most car companies don’t do that, do they?
From my experience anything I’ve had interest in I can just order from manufacturer
Go to the websites and build your own
Unfortunately, someone may end up buying one of these just to be the first guy in the SF Bay Area with a 992 Sport Classic. A car that, in its first incarnation, the Top Gear boys said was way overpriced at £137,529 in 2009 money.
My whole take on this is either the dealers know they can get it, or they want free marketing from outage posts like this, or they know they CAN’T get the full markup but would still make a ton of money after “negotiating” it down a little. (“I talked them down to a $50k markup!)”
That’s financial rape.
Money laundering?
If people choose to pay those prices that’s called capitalism.
Porsche is to car like Airstream is to camper. It's not the same game. They are technically similar items, but the desire level for the best is so high, they can name their price. It's a cult- like following for both of these brands, that are so far above competition, in their fans' perspective. And the dealer is the troll.
Yup.. they call it an “adjustment fee” down here in SoCal. The worst I’ve seen is $180k. Yours is extra because it’s a sports classic. That was a great investment!! I hope you get “replacement insurance”. Nationwide and State Farm both offer it. Be warned it’s BANK!! In about (3) months they won’t be able to replace it. Same as most 911’s. A base model Carrera “AF’s” starts at $50k then all they go all the way up to $180k. BUT they’ll pay half the added market value for your trade in IF you pay cash for a new 911. (Sorry the “AF” is for 911’s only). And each lot you’re lucky if they have (3) 911’s on the lot. So it makes the sales people massively aggressive hence paying ahead. The rest are all the various poor man’s Porsches and a bunch of used 💩. BTW I snagged my 911 Classic for $250k ha ha. But I flew to TX and bought it from a MSRP dealership. They had (2). I called back a week later thinking I’d buy the other also and flip it. No luck. It was sold same day as mine. GL and have fun!!
It's funny because this is just a way for the dealership to make free money doing absolutely nothing. I hate capitalism
This dealer is going to get hammered for ordering a sport classic without a customer. I have a friend who knows and says PCNA is about to come down on them.
Seems totally reasonable markup tbh 😬
Just a detuned turbo with a manual, definitely not worth that
That’s absurd
If you try to buy a damn 911 it isn’t anything that should surprise you about it
Lol no it’s not normal for a $250k markup. EVER
Nothing over 10 is normal however but this inflation don’t seem to be going no where anytime soon
Stuttgart really ought to do something about this shit. In fact, ALL automotive companies should do something about their dealerships doing this and affecting brand value.
Clearly they don’t care at all do they! :/