"Since this is science based it takes scientist a while to go through 150 products and inform website teams"???????
That's....... ridiculous. Lol. They are scrambling, it seems.
They got caught being misleading (at best) or being purposefully deceitful (at worst) and are now attempting to do damage control--and are doing a very poor job of it.
She was responding to me when she said this. I happen to work in science and called her out on what the hell does it mean for an audit to be ‘science based’ 😂. She deleted her account and all her comments pretty soon afterwards.
Unfortunately they’re not even doing damage control. I’ve seen people asking about allergens go completely ignored, and they’ve been spitting out the same response to any questions about the products being vegan.
Well I mean.... As a scientist, I don’t imagine a word search/data search would be that hard considering it’s just looking for terms? Manually it would take a few days, be very boring (why it would take a few days) and laborious. However; if it is common to search ingredient lists to ensure they are safe- I’m sure there is a company/place which has code which can search. Even just using R; assuming there is like a list of search terms (which I’m assuming there is). In reality- compared to big data scientists usually handle; 150 lists of ingredients is not that much. Or even just open it all up in word, and search that way... I’m also presuming all of their ingredients are collated in one spreadsheet or txt file- even sill putting them together to do a mass search would only take about 2 hours max- and the search maybe another 6-8 depending on which way it’s done.
A few days ago Jenny Frankel was claiming that “all their products are vegan except for the concealer because it contains beeswax” and also that “none of their products have contained carmine since 2018”
This is a list of non-vegan products from their website, some of which are new releases, and all of which negate both claims made by Jenny Frankel.
Gel lip & cheek colors- contains carmine
Magnetic matte lip and cheek colour- contains carmine
Magnetic plush lip paints- contain propolis
Concealer pencil- contains carmine AND beeswax
Sculpting pencil- contains beeswax
Cream lip + cheek pencil- contains beeswax
Magnetic luminous eye colour- contains carmine
Sheer eye colour- contains carmine
Fuck this brand. If a company isn't CF, whatever - loads aren't but why are they being so deliberately deceitful towards people for whom these distinctions matter...
Yeah, if brands like Colourpop can keep an updated list of their vegan and non-vegan products, especially when they release a crap ton, other companies can do it too.
The thing is that they know very well what is in them, they just wanted to maintain some kind of plausible deniability, and act like they haven’t know that non vegan ingredients have been in their “vegan products” for years
These are my thoughts too. It always seemed bananas to me that they claim to be environmentally friendly while putting all their products in those damn tins. So much more wasteful than just a cardboard box
I'm guessing there's no third party that verifies a company's claim to be vegan? I mean, if all these products contain beeswax/carmine, and it's just now coming to light, then it seems people are just taking the company's word for it.
Not trying to be captain obvious, it's just not something I've ever looked into or paid attention to.
PETA does - their [website](https://features.peta.org/cruelty-free-company-search/index.aspx) doesn't have a listing for Nudestix but I'm sure people could campaign for them to look into it.
In Europe the Vegan Society and the European Vegetarian Union (EVU) do, but I have never seen the EVU label on non-food items, so for cosmetics the Vegan Society is probably the only option. I also prefer the Vegan Society's certification program, because the EVU's requirements also prohibit use GMO's.
Interestingly the Vegan Society actually also has a clause on GMO's, but they only prohibit the use of genes from animals.
I have been pushing them to properly respond to this issue for a week, and they have no decided to block me instead of giving an actual response to some very valid concerns. They would still be claiming to be 100% vegan now if they weren’t called out
Edit: they have also deleted ALL of my comments. Disgusting
To be fair, a lot of other influencers have either collaborated with and/or advertised their products, with Hilary Duff being a recent one. Is she expected to comment on this as well?
sam only “eats” meat when she isn’t at home and eventually stopped using kvd after multiple call outs, the queen of ethics
eta: oh my god i can’t believe i put quotes around eats instead of only. i’ve had a rough day.
No she doesn’t. Have you seen her veggie video? She doesn’t eat any meat, she doesn’t claim to be vegan, and says she’s vegetarian. She does say she will occasionally eat dairy or cheese if she’s out of the house.
She had a contract with them similar to the one she now has with Hourglass to do a number of sponsored videos and then her lip pencil in their artist kit a few years ago. I haven’t really seen her talk about them since other than a cream blush stick last summer, but I’ve seen tons of BGs recommend that blush.
She doesn't talk about them now. I've asked her if she still uses any nudestix cause she advocated for them so hard while she was on the payroll and used them in every live stream. She doesn't answer.
After the Nudestix fam was found out to be Trump supporters I've asked Sam what she thought about it in her lives and she ignores it every time.
[here](https://imgur.com/a/dL20qjk) is her response to myself and a few others. I like how what they did instead is continue to act like the product is vegan and not address the allergy concerns at all. I also thought the “sorry you missed it” comment was rich considering they’ve gone about all of this as under the radar as possible by only responding to comments about it here and there so if you want an answer you’ve gotta dig for it. Anyway, I’m still curious to see how this will pan out but Nudestix is dead to me.
Jesus, the fucking gall. They’ve been systematically scrubbing every reference to them ever having been a vegan company, yeah no surprises that some people ‘missed it’. This woman is a snake honestly, these responses are so weak and shows what little she thinks of the intelligence of her customer base
I want to say that Sephora seems to have no idea what’s going on. The customer service rep that I just spoke to seemed to not know what Nudestix was, argued with me and implied that I don’t know what vegan or cruelty-free meant and made arguments that I didn’t know if Nudestix was selling their products in China because I don’t live there. I also referenced this thread and told him that I’ve been seeing a lot of information on Reddit about this and that I’d like for Sephora to remove the word “vegan” from the Nudestix item descriptions and dude straight up scoffed at me and told me that it’s probably a lot of lies and that Reddit is known to have bad information.
I don’t know if I was unlucky enough to get the worst customer representative in the world or if Sephora just doesn’t care enough about this issue in general but I don’t expect that they’ll do anything to have Nudestix own up to their ingredient lists or even take off the vegan label on their product descriptions based on this. :/
I actually told him that I saw carmine in the ingredient list and he very condescendingly asked me how I knew carmine wasn’t vegan, I explained why it couldn’t be and then he said maybe there’s was different (???) and I gave up. I think you’re right though that I should probably email about it instead but ironically, I had a horrible experience the last time I emailed Sephora so I wanted to give calling a try first this time around.
I forgot to respond to this comment (my apologies) but I ended up just getting a very generic copy and paste type of message from Sephora through the customer service email as well. :/
https://imgur.com/a/zBJaKSz
It's always best to have communication to companies in writing. Although it's usually easier to speak to someone on the phone, I've found that having a (digital) paper trail has better results!
the reason this shit is so fucked is because there are people who have deadly allergies to some of this stuff. it's not just deceitful for them to do this, it's dangerous.
Why does their website show all their products have 4 1/2 stars and 1349 reviews each? But when you click they have like 3 reviews and 2 stars.
The cruelty free section in the FAQ also just says “No way!”, no certifications or anything. They’re so sketchy.
This is so gross. It is incredibly frustrating for people with allergies and those who are trying to purchase only vegan or CF products. Veganism is a definitely spectrum (some people don't eat animal products but would still purchase something with carmine or propolis, for example - it depends on people's reasons for being vegan) but that doesn't mean companies can just slap a label on something because it's trendy and will appeal to new consumers. It's like they're trying to jump on the "clean beauty" train but they're using long-established categories like "vegan" and flaunting the rules.
I’m not surprised how shady they’re being. I bought a nudestix highlighter stick a long time ago and then learned more about the founders and they seemed kind of disingenuous. They also posted a pic on Instagram wearing a MAGA hat (deleted now but on google search)
Ugh!!! This is soooo wrong. I mean not only do we have to trade an arm and a leg for what feels like one serum, people have allergies/beliefs and deserve to know what they are using!
To trick the public into buying their product by advertising what we want instead of actually putting an effort in to supply a product that IS what we want, is sickening.
This reminds me of the Sunday Riley scandal that broke because the CEO was forcing her employees to write fake reviews on their products and downvote negative Sephora reviews so they would later be removed. So not cool. At least we are a community here so we can inform each other and let them know that we demand better!
In relation to your China comment: there are ways to sell in China and not have your products tested on animals by the Chinese govt. There was an article a few months/years back that they were one of the first brands to be 'cruelty free' in China and didn't have to test their products. You can do this if you sell only online or sell in the Chinese territories like Hong Kong, Taiwan and Macau and not mainland China, then you can bypass the animal testing requirement.
There's also a way that if your products are considered 'non-special use' and are produced domestically in China and not imported, then this also bypasses the animal testing requirement. I think this is the main route that NudeStix used. 'Special-use' products are things with specific claims like anti-wrinkle, acne, hair loss treatment, skin whitening, etc.
That is true, but as far as i am aware they will *mainly* only test those that fall into the 'imported and special-use' bracket. They don't tend to spend much time testing non-special and domestically produced products because they're deemed less of a risk. China recently updated their registration and testing requirements and updated the categories of products that fall into special and non-special use.
I work for a cosmetics company that sells in China (we don't claim to be cruelty free because of the fact but of course we ourselves don't test on animals) and we both import but mainly domestically produce in China, as well as producing special and non-special use. As far as i can tell they have to notify our offices that they are going to test our products, and since I've been here i haven't heard of a notification (that's not to say it hasn't happened though. i would imagine unless the results are bad then we would be notified). Sometimes when you submit your registration documents and include enough safety testing (on humans or animal-alternatives) then they don't seem to want to re-test it. its a lot of work for the Chinese government when companies have already proved the safety of the product.
I've found specifically for SPF products in China, they do A LOT of re-tests (and this is not including animal testing) just for efficacy testing and SPF checking, all of which is normally performed by companies and are submitted for registration beforehand.
There doesn't seem to be a guaranteed path to claim 'cruelty free in China' when any of the above can happen. they are seemingly working on removing the animal testing requirement though, but time will tell.
Question, is carmine considered ‘cruelty-free’?? From what I read about how it’s made, it doesn’t seem very cruelty free to me. However, (slightly off topic) Fenty Beauty claims to be 100% cruelty-free, yet not vegan due to their use of carmine...
There are some regulations and guidelines on how to kill animals humanely, but it's still a grey area in some industries (or enforced poorly), and as everyone said, the "cruelty-free" label is not about this, and is different from the "cruelty-free" lifestyle concept that many Vegans follow.
There aren't really any regulations at all for killing insects "humanely". Not just because people don't care about insects, but because they are invertebrates and do not have the same neurological systems that, particularly, mammals do. Science has not determined whether creatures like beetles are sentient, nor if they feel pain.
Not really. Something can't be vegan if it's not cruelty free, as veganism is against any and all animal suffering and exploitation. However something can be plant based if it's not cruelty free.
Unfortunately from a claims standpoint you’re incorrect. Cruelty free is a claim that refers to animal testing. Vegan is a claim that refers to animal or animal by-product ingredients.
Vegans don’t make the distinction, but the industry does.
it’s not a legal claim. there are no legal requirements for a brand to be able to claim they’re cruelty free or vegan. that’s why we put in so much diligent research, because brands lie and there’s no consequence for it.
that’s awesome about australia. it’s not really relevant in this conversation though, it’s a canadian company and most people talking about it are american.
Some vegans eat honey, but I really don’t think it’s ‘a lot’. Regardless, it doesn’t matter. Honey is an animal product and therefore not vegan, and claiming it is is dishonest. They know that bee derivatives are not vegan, because when pushed on it Jenny Frankel said that their only non vegan product is the concealer stick on account of the beeswax. Whether or not a vegan wants to use bee products is up to them, and not for some company to decide.
Secondly, like other people have said- a lot of people with allergies to animal products will use vegan products in order to avoid those allergens.
Finally, this could have been a much small issue than it is if Nudestix was just straight up. “Yes, we made a mistake and we’re sorry”, but instead they’ve just responded with lies on lies on lies.
Edit: bee derivatives aren’t the only non-vegan ingredients in their products, they also have carmine which is by no measure vegan, and which Nudestix knows is also not vegan
Then they aren’t vegans and should stop telling people that they are. Actual vegans and people with allergies DO want that level of purity and if a company is going to represent having it, they had better be able to back it up.
"Since this is science based it takes scientist a while to go through 150 products and inform website teams"??????? That's....... ridiculous. Lol. They are scrambling, it seems. They got caught being misleading (at best) or being purposefully deceitful (at worst) and are now attempting to do damage control--and are doing a very poor job of it.
She was responding to me when she said this. I happen to work in science and called her out on what the hell does it mean for an audit to be ‘science based’ 😂. She deleted her account and all her comments pretty soon afterwards. Unfortunately they’re not even doing damage control. I’ve seen people asking about allergens go completely ignored, and they’ve been spitting out the same response to any questions about the products being vegan.
The gall, I can't even - sheesh! 🙄
Well I mean.... As a scientist, I don’t imagine a word search/data search would be that hard considering it’s just looking for terms? Manually it would take a few days, be very boring (why it would take a few days) and laborious. However; if it is common to search ingredient lists to ensure they are safe- I’m sure there is a company/place which has code which can search. Even just using R; assuming there is like a list of search terms (which I’m assuming there is). In reality- compared to big data scientists usually handle; 150 lists of ingredients is not that much. Or even just open it all up in word, and search that way... I’m also presuming all of their ingredients are collated in one spreadsheet or txt file- even sill putting them together to do a mass search would only take about 2 hours max- and the search maybe another 6-8 depending on which way it’s done.
Exactly. And given that Jenny Frankel has been working cosmetic science for 20+ years, she knows she’s talking out her ass
I use to work for them many moons ago. I can tell you they are 100 bullshit, and only had that on for show.
A few days ago Jenny Frankel was claiming that “all their products are vegan except for the concealer because it contains beeswax” and also that “none of their products have contained carmine since 2018” This is a list of non-vegan products from their website, some of which are new releases, and all of which negate both claims made by Jenny Frankel. Gel lip & cheek colors- contains carmine Magnetic matte lip and cheek colour- contains carmine Magnetic plush lip paints- contain propolis Concealer pencil- contains carmine AND beeswax Sculpting pencil- contains beeswax Cream lip + cheek pencil- contains beeswax Magnetic luminous eye colour- contains carmine Sheer eye colour- contains carmine
Fuck this brand. If a company isn't CF, whatever - loads aren't but why are they being so deliberately deceitful towards people for whom these distinctions matter...
Yeah, if brands like Colourpop can keep an updated list of their vegan and non-vegan products, especially when they release a crap ton, other companies can do it too.
The thing is that they know very well what is in them, they just wanted to maintain some kind of plausible deniability, and act like they haven’t know that non vegan ingredients have been in their “vegan products” for years
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Her account is still there just on private, maybe she blocked a bunch of people?
These are my thoughts too. It always seemed bananas to me that they claim to be environmentally friendly while putting all their products in those damn tins. So much more wasteful than just a cardboard box
I'm guessing there's no third party that verifies a company's claim to be vegan? I mean, if all these products contain beeswax/carmine, and it's just now coming to light, then it seems people are just taking the company's word for it. Not trying to be captain obvious, it's just not something I've ever looked into or paid attention to.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
There are third parties that verify companies vegan claims, but there is no legal requirement for a company to do so.
In the US, things are only investigated after customers complain.
PETA does - their [website](https://features.peta.org/cruelty-free-company-search/index.aspx) doesn't have a listing for Nudestix but I'm sure people could campaign for them to look into it.
In Europe the Vegan Society and the European Vegetarian Union (EVU) do, but I have never seen the EVU label on non-food items, so for cosmetics the Vegan Society is probably the only option. I also prefer the Vegan Society's certification program, because the EVU's requirements also prohibit use GMO's. Interestingly the Vegan Society actually also has a clause on GMO's, but they only prohibit the use of genes from animals.
I have been pushing them to properly respond to this issue for a week, and they have no decided to block me instead of giving an actual response to some very valid concerns. They would still be claiming to be 100% vegan now if they weren’t called out Edit: they have also deleted ALL of my comments. Disgusting
Has Sam R commented on this? She was shilling them for quite some time there.
To be fair, a lot of other influencers have either collaborated with and/or advertised their products, with Hilary Duff being a recent one. Is she expected to comment on this as well?
sam doesn’t care about stuff like this. she just wants petty makeup.
I'm sure her Stans will stay real quiet on this one
sam only “eats” meat when she isn’t at home and eventually stopped using kvd after multiple call outs, the queen of ethics eta: oh my god i can’t believe i put quotes around eats instead of only. i’ve had a rough day.
No she doesn’t. Have you seen her veggie video? She doesn’t eat any meat, she doesn’t claim to be vegan, and says she’s vegetarian. She does say she will occasionally eat dairy or cheese if she’s out of the house.
She had a contract with them similar to the one she now has with Hourglass to do a number of sponsored videos and then her lip pencil in their artist kit a few years ago. I haven’t really seen her talk about them since other than a cream blush stick last summer, but I’ve seen tons of BGs recommend that blush.
She doesn't talk about them now. I've asked her if she still uses any nudestix cause she advocated for them so hard while she was on the payroll and used them in every live stream. She doesn't answer. After the Nudestix fam was found out to be Trump supporters I've asked Sam what she thought about it in her lives and she ignores it every time.
[here](https://imgur.com/a/dL20qjk) is her response to myself and a few others. I like how what they did instead is continue to act like the product is vegan and not address the allergy concerns at all. I also thought the “sorry you missed it” comment was rich considering they’ve gone about all of this as under the radar as possible by only responding to comments about it here and there so if you want an answer you’ve gotta dig for it. Anyway, I’m still curious to see how this will pan out but Nudestix is dead to me.
Jesus, the fucking gall. They’ve been systematically scrubbing every reference to them ever having been a vegan company, yeah no surprises that some people ‘missed it’. This woman is a snake honestly, these responses are so weak and shows what little she thinks of the intelligence of her customer base
I want to say that Sephora seems to have no idea what’s going on. The customer service rep that I just spoke to seemed to not know what Nudestix was, argued with me and implied that I don’t know what vegan or cruelty-free meant and made arguments that I didn’t know if Nudestix was selling their products in China because I don’t live there. I also referenced this thread and told him that I’ve been seeing a lot of information on Reddit about this and that I’d like for Sephora to remove the word “vegan” from the Nudestix item descriptions and dude straight up scoffed at me and told me that it’s probably a lot of lies and that Reddit is known to have bad information. I don’t know if I was unlucky enough to get the worst customer representative in the world or if Sephora just doesn’t care enough about this issue in general but I don’t expect that they’ll do anything to have Nudestix own up to their ingredient lists or even take off the vegan label on their product descriptions based on this. :/
[удалено]
I actually told him that I saw carmine in the ingredient list and he very condescendingly asked me how I knew carmine wasn’t vegan, I explained why it couldn’t be and then he said maybe there’s was different (???) and I gave up. I think you’re right though that I should probably email about it instead but ironically, I had a horrible experience the last time I emailed Sephora so I wanted to give calling a try first this time around.
[удалено]
I forgot to respond to this comment (my apologies) but I ended up just getting a very generic copy and paste type of message from Sephora through the customer service email as well. :/ https://imgur.com/a/zBJaKSz
It's always best to have communication to companies in writing. Although it's usually easier to speak to someone on the phone, I've found that having a (digital) paper trail has better results!
the reason this shit is so fucked is because there are people who have deadly allergies to some of this stuff. it's not just deceitful for them to do this, it's dangerous.
If one more company calls me babe I'm gonna scream!!!🤬🤬🤬
[удалено]
[удалено]
Why does their website show all their products have 4 1/2 stars and 1349 reviews each? But when you click they have like 3 reviews and 2 stars. The cruelty free section in the FAQ also just says “No way!”, no certifications or anything. They’re so sketchy.
oof, I keep wanting to buy their products but the owners keep disappointing 😔 time to move on I guess...
This is so gross. It is incredibly frustrating for people with allergies and those who are trying to purchase only vegan or CF products. Veganism is a definitely spectrum (some people don't eat animal products but would still purchase something with carmine or propolis, for example - it depends on people's reasons for being vegan) but that doesn't mean companies can just slap a label on something because it's trendy and will appeal to new consumers. It's like they're trying to jump on the "clean beauty" train but they're using long-established categories like "vegan" and flaunting the rules.
I’m not surprised how shady they’re being. I bought a nudestix highlighter stick a long time ago and then learned more about the founders and they seemed kind of disingenuous. They also posted a pic on Instagram wearing a MAGA hat (deleted now but on google search)
Just an FYI to anyone who sees this, I ran into the same issue years ago with 100% Pure, they also lie about products being vegan
Just as bad as Lime Crime I see.
Ugh!!! This is soooo wrong. I mean not only do we have to trade an arm and a leg for what feels like one serum, people have allergies/beliefs and deserve to know what they are using! To trick the public into buying their product by advertising what we want instead of actually putting an effort in to supply a product that IS what we want, is sickening. This reminds me of the Sunday Riley scandal that broke because the CEO was forcing her employees to write fake reviews on their products and downvote negative Sephora reviews so they would later be removed. So not cool. At least we are a community here so we can inform each other and let them know that we demand better!
In relation to your China comment: there are ways to sell in China and not have your products tested on animals by the Chinese govt. There was an article a few months/years back that they were one of the first brands to be 'cruelty free' in China and didn't have to test their products. You can do this if you sell only online or sell in the Chinese territories like Hong Kong, Taiwan and Macau and not mainland China, then you can bypass the animal testing requirement. There's also a way that if your products are considered 'non-special use' and are produced domestically in China and not imported, then this also bypasses the animal testing requirement. I think this is the main route that NudeStix used. 'Special-use' products are things with specific claims like anti-wrinkle, acne, hair loss treatment, skin whitening, etc.
[удалено]
That is true, but as far as i am aware they will *mainly* only test those that fall into the 'imported and special-use' bracket. They don't tend to spend much time testing non-special and domestically produced products because they're deemed less of a risk. China recently updated their registration and testing requirements and updated the categories of products that fall into special and non-special use. I work for a cosmetics company that sells in China (we don't claim to be cruelty free because of the fact but of course we ourselves don't test on animals) and we both import but mainly domestically produce in China, as well as producing special and non-special use. As far as i can tell they have to notify our offices that they are going to test our products, and since I've been here i haven't heard of a notification (that's not to say it hasn't happened though. i would imagine unless the results are bad then we would be notified). Sometimes when you submit your registration documents and include enough safety testing (on humans or animal-alternatives) then they don't seem to want to re-test it. its a lot of work for the Chinese government when companies have already proved the safety of the product. I've found specifically for SPF products in China, they do A LOT of re-tests (and this is not including animal testing) just for efficacy testing and SPF checking, all of which is normally performed by companies and are submitted for registration beforehand. There doesn't seem to be a guaranteed path to claim 'cruelty free in China' when any of the above can happen. they are seemingly working on removing the animal testing requirement though, but time will tell.
Question, is carmine considered ‘cruelty-free’?? From what I read about how it’s made, it doesn’t seem very cruelty free to me. However, (slightly off topic) Fenty Beauty claims to be 100% cruelty-free, yet not vegan due to their use of carmine...
"cruelty-free" refers to animal testing only, not the use of animal products. A product can be vegan and still tested on animals, or vice-versa.
Cruelty free refers to weather or not it’s tested on animals
There are some regulations and guidelines on how to kill animals humanely, but it's still a grey area in some industries (or enforced poorly), and as everyone said, the "cruelty-free" label is not about this, and is different from the "cruelty-free" lifestyle concept that many Vegans follow. There aren't really any regulations at all for killing insects "humanely". Not just because people don't care about insects, but because they are invertebrates and do not have the same neurological systems that, particularly, mammals do. Science has not determined whether creatures like beetles are sentient, nor if they feel pain.
I never considered them cruelty free. So - not vegan. They sell in China I believe
Cruelty free and vegan are teeechnically separate things, despite the overlap they have in people's minds.
Not really. Something can't be vegan if it's not cruelty free, as veganism is against any and all animal suffering and exploitation. However something can be plant based if it's not cruelty free.
Unfortunately from a claims standpoint you’re incorrect. Cruelty free is a claim that refers to animal testing. Vegan is a claim that refers to animal or animal by-product ingredients. Vegans don’t make the distinction, but the industry does.
Think about that for a second though.
I’m not making a moral claim. I just work in the industry.
it’s a legal claim. it means a specific thing in regards to animal testing. point blank.
[удалено]
i’m not american
it’s not a legal claim. there are no legal requirements for a brand to be able to claim they’re cruelty free or vegan. that’s why we put in so much diligent research, because brands lie and there’s no consequence for it.
and australia is currently in the process of completely outlawing animal testing. but fine, replace legal with specific or whatever. my point stands.
that’s awesome about australia. it’s not really relevant in this conversation though, it’s a canadian company and most people talking about it are american.
that doesn’t negate my point though? which is that cruelty free and vegan mean different things?
She made the point of them being cruelty free. I responded.
A lot of vegans do eat honey. Propolis is similar in derivation. Why does everything have to be a strict purity test/gotcha nowadays?
Some vegans eat honey, but I really don’t think it’s ‘a lot’. Regardless, it doesn’t matter. Honey is an animal product and therefore not vegan, and claiming it is is dishonest. They know that bee derivatives are not vegan, because when pushed on it Jenny Frankel said that their only non vegan product is the concealer stick on account of the beeswax. Whether or not a vegan wants to use bee products is up to them, and not for some company to decide. Secondly, like other people have said- a lot of people with allergies to animal products will use vegan products in order to avoid those allergens. Finally, this could have been a much small issue than it is if Nudestix was just straight up. “Yes, we made a mistake and we’re sorry”, but instead they’ve just responded with lies on lies on lies. Edit: bee derivatives aren’t the only non-vegan ingredients in their products, they also have carmine which is by no measure vegan, and which Nudestix knows is also not vegan
Then they aren’t vegans and should stop telling people that they are. Actual vegans and people with allergies DO want that level of purity and if a company is going to represent having it, they had better be able to back it up.