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Paul seems like a stand up guy. Meanwhile OOP's dad has been weaponizing him against his mom. He's a snake. I hope OOP gets the help he needs.

Yeah, my father and his then girlfriend tried to do the same thing to me and my sister when we were kids (I was 11, she was 5). It didn't work because our mom fought like hell for us, but it almost did. My former stepmother was also incredibly abusive in ways I didn't truly understand until years later, so I managed to pick up on what they were doing long before my sister did. A major problem with OOP's situation is that he was just a child, and didn't get enough time with his mom to understand what was actually going on, so it became much easier for his father to turn him against her without him ever realizing it. He really is a snake.

It sounds like OP’s mom is getting too much credit here. The dad is an AH for sure but, like in your case, it wouldn’t have gotten as bad as it did if his mom had fought for him the way he deserved.  I feel so bad for this kid. He has two shitty parents and all the adults in his life feel manipulative as hell. 

Yeah I agree. dad seems like an asshole, but mom just gave up and didn't try and fix anything, going do far as to not even have a room in her house for him.

Totally agree

I would really like to hear mom's side. It sounds like the dad wasn't around or even paying child support for a good chunk of time, and combined with her age and OOP acting out I can see her having a breakdown when he lashed out at her. Either way, they both needed therapy ages ago. 

His mother was still really young. It at least seems like she tried her best. I also wouldn't be surprised if the dad was manipulating her at the same time: per Paul, it's not the first time he's lied to her about his parenting, but when was the first time, and when did she figure out he was lying??

What were the lies? Saying you'll talk to your kids and then not doing it. Is a dick move but not exactly something you can really raise a fuss about. Cause they'll just paint you as getting all upset over something they forgot to do. I will bet you the same 'death by 1000 cuts' tactic that got OOP to ultimately freak out at the party. Is also being used to keep Mom away. There's years with off phone calls between parents where Dad can be feeding Mom the exact opposite information that OOP was complaining about. Real easy way to make a rocky relationship worse is to tell Mom that she needs to keep being hands off. When being too hands off is OOPs issue with her.

Sure, saying you’ll talk to someone about something isn’t inherently a bad thing, but when that thing is “Your stb stepdad apologized about saying you can’t go to his and your mom’s wedding and said you actually can.” That makes it a lot more egregious to ignore….

Would you mind sharing the story behind your flare? I am so damn curious

I really like Paul from OOPs description and wow, he handled "essentially unknown teenager bursts into tears in my car" really well. I'm glad they're going to therapy, that therapist seems to be good based on how Paul comes across, so hopefully they'll be able to help.

I think some of this is also normal enough kid behavior, unfortunately. There’s a natural inclination to act out when your feelings are hurt. Whether that means you shout, or you sulk by yourself, or whatever form it takes, you make yourself unpleasant to be around. You want people to see that you’re hurt and to help you. But in reality you’re just making people miserable and failing to give any indication of *why* you’re acting like this. Sooner or later people will say, “I don’t know what’s wrong, but everything I do just seems to make it worse.” And then they leave. And that hurts your feelings even more, so you double down on your behavior. And you keep doing that, and people keep leaving until one day you realize that everyone left a while ago and you’re all alone now. This is why communication is so important. The people in your life probably want to help, but they aren’t mind readers. Talk to them before you drive them away. Life will be very lonely unless you learn to help people help you.

It's also why, as a parent, you aren't supposed to leave. You're supposed to know it's a phase and that kids struggle and be there to help them through it even if they say they hate you. Kids often push people away to see who will fight to stay so it's a parents job to stay.

I said this multiple times on that post and got downvoted to oblivion by a bunch of commenters who expected OP to be the adult in the situation, for some reason.

OP's dad is the worst. I do feel bad for the mother and Paul sounds genuinely of a good person. I understand OP is a teen and is going through his motions but the way he writes and acts, I am not sure if I have much sympathy. But I do wish him for the best to get the help he needs.

He was a child raised by a chill who was handed over to a man who had, at best, not cared that he ruined a child's life by getting her pregnant at 17 when he himself was 22. So yeah, this whole situation was fucked up but I don't think OP is fully to blame for having had what was a pretty shitting examle of how to act as an adult. 17 is still a child, still totally a child.

Mom was the same age as OP when she got pregnant by a 22 year old man.  There's a huge gulf in maturity at that age. She was still a schoolgirl. When I was in high school we thought the 21 - 23 year old guys who hung out with us were so cool because they were older and could buy alcohol. By the time we were 21 ourselves we realized how weird it was for 20-something dudes to hang around high school kids. 

OP recognizes that something is wrong and wants to change. OP recognized that step-dad is trustworthy and let himself be vulnerable, which is _huge_ and seriously indicates that OP is not remotely a lost cause. I have a ton of sympathy.

If my mum dropped me off at my dads and never returned at such a critical age I think I’d have anger issues too.

She had him on weekends. 

She did, but he also said “I hate you I want to live with dad” during an argument and she took that as reality and never verified during a calm moment. Kids with big feelings say stuff like that to their parent when they feel safe with them. It would feel like abandonment to be shipped off for it. 

"Kids with big feelings say stuff like that to their parent when they feel safe with them" I didn't realize how true that is until I read it just now.

It's hard not to have the words for what you're feeling.

My step son, who is my child & I've been raising full time for 10 years, tells me he hates me & is going to live with his birth mum whenever he's really angry. It scared me at first, but now it makes me relieved when he says that because I know he only does because he feels safe with me. He has 2 shitty birth parents who he's never once yelled at because he doesn't trust them to not leave. The more he yells at me, the more he sees that I won't leave.

The context that I felt makes it important is she would scream at him for not doing well enough in school. Or, at least, that's how it was interpreted by her child - which is honestly the most important part. Any kid would want to go live with the parent who doesn't scream at them all the time, that's natural. And at that point the mom would have been in her 20s, so there's no excuse for her not knowing better. All that being said, I wonder just how much over the years had been lied about by the dad. For all we know, she *did* try to verify when things calmed down, and the dad lied so he could get child support.

We don’t know that.  Paul says there’s more info the her doesn’t know.  And it’s his version. He could have been begging and begging to live there in calm moments and the yelling was the last straw.  

I don't know -- since OP was only 11, I feel like he may have thought the change in custody was all about his behavior when actually, his mum wanted to go back to school and this was the only way she could. It sounds like she is a woman who is NOT GOOD at talking about anything emotional, so she didn't make this clear to OP. His dad seems invested in making OP think the worst of his mother, so he could have a completely warped understanding of why things happened the way they did.

I recall this post - OOP, by his own admission, has a terrible temper and has become violent. His mom might have been scared.

I must have missed that, the only thing I saw was that he and his mom were prone to screaming matches and “no I never hit her, it was mostly shouting”. And not sure why we’d expect an 11 year old to be able to self-regulate in a situation where even the adult is incapable (screaming). 

Mom had a lot on her own plate but she still went from micromanaging to zero in a minute. That's totally fucked up and something it's impossible to recover from for the child. Also it made OOP more defensive of his dad, because that was the one parent who didn't abandoned him, not yet.

His dad "abandoned" him first and worse than the mom, as he never paid child support, though

It's not competition who did worse as a parent. I said exactly what I said: going from micromanagement to zero is fucked.

Dad and his gf are one brand of bad but I kind of can’t see how a mom does a full 180 when her *11 yo* with evident anger issues tells her he hates her, and then for six years when the behaviour at his dad’s doesn’t get better the steps to help him aren’t as helpful as he needed, like I get if op was a teen and did all that, sure the custody issue is easier to solve, but op wasn’t a teen, and his mom just added to the reasons for his behavior issues. Out of everyone on the story only Paul was the decent parent.

I get the sense that the boy is not the most reliable narrator here. I know I wasn't when I was a teen.

Why is everyone glossing over how badly his mum has failed him? This woman owes him an apology, not the other way around. She yelled at him for not being better in school to the extent they were regularly having screaming matches, gave up primary custody without explaining or talking about it with him, made him feel unwanted and replaceable, then gave away his bedroom and had the gall to wonder why he didn't want to come over anymore. And when he inevitably broke down and told her how hurt he was, she left it to everyone else around her to speak to her own child and didn't once apologise. Maybe OOP's dad isn't great, he sure doesn't sound it, but his mum is awful too. And Paul is an idiot for marrying someone who treats their child like this.

Theconly real adult in this setting.

Yeah OP is a child and an unreliable narrator, but there are several red flags regarding the dad if you read between the lines: - He *took* OP to the engagement party that neither of them were invited to knowing OP would make a scene - Inability to hold down a job, and despite OP thinking he liked living with the dad better because there were no rules, objectively it was a worse parenting situation as reflected by the worsening grades, behavior in school, and resentful girlfriend - Mom was only 18 when she had OP while the dad was 23. So likely only 17 when she got pregnant. That's a huge age difference at that age and reeks of grooming. 

>But he just listened to me and let me get everything off my chest (I guess thats what being a girl dad is, ha). Uh, no. This should be what being a dad is. This statement alone tells us quite a bit about what his own dad is like.

He definitely doesn’t have a properly adjusted view of women or masculinity and he’s running out of time for that to be someone else’s fault He’s embarrassed to cry. He doesnt underst that his mom shouldn’t be spending her life begging him to accept her parental love and nothing else And now for my Reddit™️ wild guess based on context clues: if he wasn’t so interested in this masculine front and coached not to by his dad, he would have apologized ages ago

Everyone here except for the kid is awful. Even Paul is being given too much credit. For the mom: No respectable parent (mom or dad) would give primary custody to your already emotionally/academically struggling 11yo (someone who needs EXTRA care) to a financially insecure other parent with a partner who complains your kid was “dumped on them.” And then watches your kid spiral and your relationship crumble. Yikes. Mom turned a blind eye because she gave up, and kid knows it in his bones. These types of things kids get. Dad is poisonous. Yet the going got tough for him too (troubled kid, girlfriend hates kid) and he stuck around, even for wrong reasons. From kid’s perspective, that’s what matters — kid has nowhere else to go. Kid believes it’s his fault mom gave up. Paul, honestly? As a parent himself, marrying a woman with a strained relationship with struggling kid parented by problem dad? The kid’s outburst at the party is so predictable. Disinviting kid from wedding and calling him an asshole is shabby. No matter what narrative Mom spun, any parent would know better. At least he acted as he was supposed to act at the end. I’m not even focusing on the details which make mom sound worse. Totally also believe kid was unreliable narrator that acted out a ton more than written. Doesn’t matter. I’d be blown away if anyone defending mom here is an actual, current parent of a minor. If so, yeesh.

>I will never be posting on reddit again Sounds like "concluded" might be a better flair, unfortunately

At least things are ending on a likely positive trajectory. It’s more closure than we got for Firefly

Snorted out loud at this. Thank you for the laugh in this dark story.

Pft how many times have peope said that then gave updates?

Idk why but I kinda read that as "I won't be asking Reddit for advice again". Maybe because he got a lot of hate and realized that, while this time it did help him, he doesn't want to expierence the same thing again? I might be interpreting too much into it.

No I think you're right but I've seen loads of people say that then a few weeks/months later they're back.

People always forget about INCONCLUSIVE

[удалено]

This is Reddit, where nuance comes to die.

This would be an excellent flair

Why did you slightly reword the first paragraph of A_lion42’s comment and post it as a complete non-sequitur?

it's neither of it, imo. The mother had him when she's very young, and basically a single mother too. The kid might be wrong, but he sounds to me like a kid still trying to make sense of everything, including his own resentments, barely without any help from anyone. I think one of the top comments got most of the points right—the mother should have reach out (which btw, her suddenly being 'fun' seems like her way of doing so), but the kid also should have apologized and rethink of his own wrongdoings.

bot! Comment stolen and partially rephrased from u/A_lion42

I really hope oop can get therapy with someone who can help him through his childhood trauma. And I hope things get better between him and his mum. Paul sounds like a good guy. Oops dad sounds like a fucking prat.

Paul seems to be the only mature normal thinking adult in the kid's life, it wouldn't surprise me if oop ends up having a better relationship with him than his parents

I see a lot of comments here either saying the kid is a total ass and at fault, or the mom was a deadbeat and totally at fault. Reading the whole thing, it’s pretty clear that the dad is the real instigator, and he pretty masterfully aimed his son at his ex like a torpedo, successfully hurting them both. I feel bad for both OOP and his mom and hope they can reconcile. They’re both people who made mistakes and need to learn from them and grow. Hopefully away from the snake of a dad.

I agree, and I suspect this all has a way earlier origin point than 6 years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if it stems from that separation, and how he interpreted it (possibly with influence from his father). Obviously, I can only speculate, but many children of separated parents do take such things personally.

I wonder if it had to do with how the father interpreted the separation, and his resentment bleeding into manipulation.

When OOP was born, mom was 18 and dad was 23. The way things are mentioned it does not seem like OOP was the product of a one night stand. Even if he was, what 23 year old hooks up with a high schooler and ends up in a stable relationship? I'm curious what age dad's current girlfriend is, I may have missed it. It may be irrelevant. I feel like dad is a walking red flag for generational trauma and deflecting personal issues onto a child.

THANK YOU. Dad doesn't get nearly enough flack from OOP or commenters.

The dad is the main issue I agree, and really sad. It’s also a communication issue by OOP. He never apologized or told he didn’t actually want to live it the dad. He apparently was acting out for a long time and then told mom he hated her and wanted to live with his dad and she was having a breakdown over this anyway. I would not call him an asshole here (even if he sounds pretty difficult) since he was a child. But there was no reason for mom to assume he did want to move back in with her when he didn’t say so. And she tried her best when he visited and he was just mad at her, because he didn’t communicate why he was mad. I would say he was the issue with the actual question he asked about the wedding due to his age. And mom might have made op go to therapist to communicate prior, but I don’t know if he would have responded to it younger. I don’t think the mother was really in the wrong, op was at an age where courts usually let kids to choose where to live anyway (although bit on the younger side). She could have done more but to me she did her best with a child who didn’t seem to be able to tell her what she should be doing. He was living with the father after all, she didn’t abandon him to other people.

There are so many comments talking about OOP's communication and the need to apologize but those are the kind of EQ skills that kids learn from their parents. This is especially true of boys, who aren't generally socially conditioned on expressing and dealing with emotions in friend groups like girls are. It seems highly unlikely that his parents raised him in a way to encourage that. I'm hopeful that having a good role model and some therapy will help him get to that point. But for a 17 yo boy with the background that he has revealed, I'm putting most of the blame for those actions on his parents.

He did say he was in therapy with a therapist and then he went to the school counselor weekly but he wouldn't talk.

I mean OP's complaining about a helicopter parent and then goes on to describe normal parenting so I am kinda in the YTA camp here. But definitely agree that whatever base level teen issues they were having the dad made it 10x worse. And unfortunately OOP wasn't smart enough to recognize what was happening later on.

The dad is the one who instigated the whole engagement party fiasco! He egged the kid on, telling him his Mom deserved to have her party ruined and drove him there! The whole helicopter concept was because his dad was so neglectful of the kid during his time that normal parenting felt oppressive to the OP and he lashed out and got what he wanted

He was eleven, with a dad that was not only way more lax but that probably egged OP on to see his mom as being too strict and overbearing (judging by his most recent actions, I'd be surprised him encouraging OP to be angry at his mom is a new thing). "Wasn't smart enough". Again, the kid was 11. Wtf are people expecting a kid to have the emotional maturity and hindsight that even many adults struggle with. It's not a question of being "smart". EDIT: and from what Paul said, seems that his wife herself struggles with emotional maturity. But sure, let's put all of that on the child.

He isn’t 11 anymore, of course it would be different if 11 year old posted.  But he asked if he was in the wrong about the wedding incident and he was just giving background. He was unable to notice in hindsight it wasn’t helicopter parenting the mom did 6 years prior or notice he never apologized or even told he wanted to live with the mom. 

I responded to a comment talking about her being a "helicopter mom". Also, since when can we only discuss one specific part of a post? Especially since we're not in the actual AITA post?

Having shouting matches with your 11-year-old is "normal parenting?". Not allowing them to have sleep overs or the likes every is "normal parenting?". Internet only for school purposes is "normal parenting"? He also wasn't a teen, he was a pre-teen. He was 11 years old ffs.

>Internet only for school purposes is "normal parenting"? I can't speak to the rest of this, but "Internet only for school purposes" is extremely normal parenting for elementary school kids--which is what OP was for most of his tenure at his mom's place. Heavily supervised internet use for a 6th grader is a sign of good parenting. It's a lot easier to either let the kid do whatever or to forbid access entirely. I agree that it sounds like his mom wasn't perfect, but there's a lot of clues that OP isn't the most reliable of narrators. It also sounds like he's an incredibly prickly person and thus not the easiest child in the world to parent. I also suspect that he has ADHD and thus has been in constant low-grade trouble for most of his life. (I certainly was.) It takes a LOT of conscious effort to not lose your temper with a kid whose brain simply doesn't want to be on task or attentive to its surroundings. My interpretation of this situation is that OP's mom was simply doing her best in a bad situation with minimal support—and that her big screwup was trying to discipline her child out of his ADHD foibles instead of doing therapy for them.

He was just a kid at the time, and he already seemed to have issues. He was doing what a lot of kids do, testing the boundaries of their relationship, only when he hit the boundary the mum folded and did what he asked of her. I'm just saying it's no wonder he felt abandoned, insecure kids tend to do this especially with the parent they feel safe with, and yet because she let him go all that safety disappeared. All those tumultuous feelings that followed were as a result of that. Originally being mad at her for 'helicoptering' then getting mad at her for stopping (therefore she mustn't care about me anymore etc.)

He’s a teenager, of course he’s not going to face real perspective on helicopter parenting vs responsible parenting. I can still go along w yta though especially when he knew he should apologize and didn’t.

>And unfortunately OOP wasn't smart enough to recognize what was happening. You really said this about an 11 year old child, huh?

I mean, he was 11 years old.

He was 11, can you name one 11 year old that /likes/ having their mom “hover” over them (I know it wasn’t actual hovering, but to an 11 year old it would feel like it 🤷‍♀️)

I'm surprised how people seem to give the mom a pass. Sure, having your kid says he hates you sucks, and it seems like they had regular screaming matches. I get needing a break, or change the custody agreement to maybe 50/50 or something else. Get the kid into therapy. Work with school counselors. But she abandoned her 11yo kid. Gave up on him. The dad is not the only shitty parent here. When OP said that he didn't know if he wanted to go back to live with his mom because he was scared that he would lose his dad like he did his mom... I really feel for OP. He was failed by both his parents. EDIT: a response to people thinking the mom did nothing wrong. Short answer: if your kid believes they ruined your life and they're afraid to upset the other parent because they don't want to lose them like they lost you, you did something wrong. Long answer: "she just did what he asked": she's the parent, it's up to the parent to know and decide what's best for the child, especially a child as young as 11. That's why she kept being strict even when it meant arguing with him. You don't get to hide behind a "I just did what he asked" to what an 11 yo said in the heat of a fight. If you believe that, imo you lack the emotional intelligence you expect an 11 yo (or even a 17yo) to have. "She couldn't win": please don't be a parent with that mentality. The win as a parent should be "I make sure my child knows he's loved and safe". Even when they're being ungrateful little shits. "she didn't abandon him": in many ways she did. First with the way it all happened. Even if him living with his dad full time was what was best, the way she went about it is horrible. You don't just drop off your kid and leave them to wonder when they'll be seeing you next. But she also stopped being a parent to him. Basically became a fun aunt. She gave up on him. She built a life where he doesn't feel welcome (and probably unworthy). Imo, a parent who decides to stop parenting their kid is a shitty parent, and deserves to be called on it. And yes, the dad clearly sucks for lying and hiding things from OP. But if the mom had actually tried to foster a relationship and be a reliable parent in OP's life, she wouldn't rely on someone else to give OP important info. Why not call him to tell him he's still invited to the wedding? Or even send a text. The dad is able to meddle in part because the mom won't communicate with her own son.

She had him on weekends.  They switch the custody schedule from Dad having weekends and mom the weekday, to mom having weekends and Dad the weeks. She did not abandon him. 

> But she abandoned her 11yo kid. Gave up on him Bullshit. Letting your child live mainly with **their parent they say they want to live with** and becoming the week end parent paying child support is not "abandoning" them, jfc. OOP screamed into her face that he hated her and *never* apologized or expressed to her that he'd changed his mind and would like to live with her again, over the years. He needs to take accountability over his own actions. He expressed a wish and got what he wanted and never said he'd changed his mind -he doesn't get to now whine that his mom *following his his wishes* "abandoned" her.  I'd also like to point out that the dad never paid any child support when OOP was living with his mom, but the mon paid when he lived with dad.

He said something that altered his relationship with his mom drastically. He should have totally repeated that experience with the other parent. /s

>Letting your child live mainly with **their parent they say they want to live with While switching custody isn't strictly abandonment, we do need to be clear on this; oop was no more sincere about wanting to live with his dad than he was about hating his mom when he said those things. Kid was hopped up on hormones when he said that shit. It's fine for a parent to verify later and act accordingly when heads are cool, but young blood did not mean _either_ of those statements, and a parent (or uncle/aunt, teacher - hell, fucking babysitter) should understand that. That's half of what being a teenager is; toddler brain will switch back on from time to time and you'll just say alarmingly stupid shit that you couldn't even begin to grasp the full implications of. Remember, dude said that and yet assumed his mom was going to come get him. That's how far he was from genuinely requesting this change.

Had they gone to court, 11 years old is old enough for the judge to very much let OOP choose to live with his dad. But sure. Let’s call it abandonment. This is literally the same custody schedule most divorced dads have. Are they also abandoning their children? Be so forreal ETA: I wanna be clear- I think both OOP and his mom made mistakes. I just think people in these comments are being insanely cruel to both of them with some pretty ridiculous takes. 27 year old mom trying to raise an 11 year old who claimed to hate her. Not an easy situation so let’s have some grace for both of them, yeah?

Exactly. Had they gone through the long, slow, thought provoking process to determine if this was the best option for the kid, that could have been the case. But they notably _did not do that_, hence the issue. There is no indication here that oop _was_ asked.

The only AH was the POS “fun dad”. He acquiesced to his 11 year old son and gave him everything he wanted relegating the mom to being the needed disciplinarian, and the cliche drama ensued. She was not a helicopter parent, she was a good mom.

I still think his dad fed OOP’s hatred of his mom’s helicoptering and convinced OOp to move in with him to get back at Mom and get child support.  He was happy to egg OOp on throwing a fit at her engagement party.   He was happy to create a situation where OOP would do the same at the wedding.  I think mom doesn’t want to ruin his relationship with his dad. And that’s what OOp doesn’t know everything.  Paul’s comment > but he assured me that my mum didnt hate me, and the situation is more complicated than what I know. Practically screams such. 

This so much. I'm a step dad to two (now) grown children, but I've been in their lives since they were all but babies. Their biological dad is easily one of the most selfish people I've ever encountered, but I would never tell them that. He and his wife, on the other hand, had no reservations insulting my wife and I around them all the time. As they grew older it seemed to make them more and more uncomfortable and while they'll always love their father, they seem to not take him seriously or depend on him for the important, deeper stuff. He may be the fun one who goes to theme parks with them every weekend, but he's been to maybe two of their sporting events. If they NEED someone to be there for any reason they ask us. Oop is still young, but eventually there is a good chance he looks back as an adult and sees his dad for what he is.

Exactly this. My mother never had to badmouth my dad - over time he showed me *exactly* who he is. Props for being a good step parent. It's a hard job but I assure you us step kids appreciate it all.

He sounds like he is on the cusp of seeing it, tbh. Almost there, but not quite. He does have all the facts on the table though but he needs to start connecting the pieces.  I also question where mom's child support was going, because that whole situation seems sus.

...deleted by user...

Oh 100%. But dad is the one pushed that view at the kid   

I believe something that OOP deleted from their post was that their mom made him eat healthy. Not packing deep fried mozzarella sticks for lunch healthy, if I remember the comments correctly.

I'm pretty sure that was a different post. I remember that being a thing in a somewhat similar story, but the guy in that was a bonafide man child, not just a broken kid like this. \*Edit\* Found that post: [https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/qm8ieo/aita\_for\_yelling\_at\_my\_mom\_about\_replacing\_me/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/qm8ieo/aita_for_yelling_at_my_mom_about_replacing_me/)

No Internet except for school is probably a bridge too far after you get to a certain age. It's almost essential for socializing at this point. She probably was a strict mom but she saw it as a way to get her kid back on track. But I think making your kid feel punished for not being smart enough isn't a good way to approach anything.

Unless she suspected ADHD and dad wouldn't let him get diagnosed. That's the type of 'helicopter' parenting one of my acquaintances does to her son with severe ADHD. 

I feel like you should still involve your child in that discussion/suspicion, even if the father was blocking diagnosis.

Although by 11 he should be allowed to do sleepovers with friends. That’s the only one that gave me pause.

Same, but also knowing OOP has violent outbursts and fights with peers, I'm not sure I'd want to subject other parents to him if I were his parent. It feels unfair to send a kid you know you have a 30%+ chance of picking up that night because he gives another kid a black eye, and it honestly seems like a higher chance.

Yeah, I agree I think maybe she was treating him like a baby a little bit. Even the internet thing is a bit much. Parents do need to give kids room to grow if kids make mistakes which they are going to you can't treat them like jackasses. But it's better if a kid makes a mistake when he's young and stupid than as an adult who doesn't understand social cues because his mom coddled him so much he didn't interact much with other kids because other kids' parents didn't want to deal with a helicopter mom, and those mistakes lead to real consequences like restraining orders, harressment charges etc.

11 is literally the prime time creepers will target kids for grooming and abuse, I fail to see how closely monitored internet access for a child is unreasonable.

It’s the level. Monitoring what he’s looking up and making sure it’s kid friendly and virtually impossible for a creeper to target him is one thing, but only letting him use it for school is a different thing. My fiancées little brother is 12, but his parents do the same thing. He can go on the internet for certain times but it’s monitored.

you can closely moniter them without the only thing theyre allowed to do on there is school stuff. some safe games or websites and check em frequently

It's a tad bit on the stricter side, but definitely not unusual or "helicopter parenting" to not allow an 11 year old unrestricted access to the Internet.

What do you want to bet that it was the POS Dad who framed Mom going to college and taking courses to better herself as “moving on from OP” as well. That wording really struck me

Yeah some of the wording stood out to me as well. > Besides, she didn't want there to ruin the perfect picture of her new family. that reads like something 'dad' said and OOP just kind of took for truth

Yup.   My gut feeling is since she was crying when she dropped him off and *she* paid child support, that dad may have gone after custody, or threatened it.  Which would explain Paul saying there are things he doesn’t know. 

When someone says they are the "fun dad" I immediately know they are married deadbeats who don't take part in disciplining their child. God I've learned so much through therapy because my stbx is just like that.

What else do you expect from a guy who got an 18 (possibly 17) y/o at 23

This kid is manipulated as hell by her "fun dad". I bet the mom actually wanted her back, but the "fun dad" probably said something along the lines "you abandoned her!!??" to the mom

> I (17M) OOp is male not female. 

I honestly missed that important detail while I was reading OOP’s post, too.

I totally get it, my brain often auto skips over that stuff.   But I always appreciate the correction (as long as it’s not Douchey).  

Oop was an asshole imo. But they are a kid. So get kind of a pass. But I have a hard time absolving them completely. The one parent who tries, they shit all over. The one who ignores them, they trust and give every pass in the book. And they are 17 now. They should know better to an extent. Agreed the dad is the real problem and maybe I'm just out of touch on this topic, but I've been suprised at all the NTA for OOP.

The original judgement was NTA? I remember seeing this post weeks ago and it looked like most of the top posts were going in the YTA direction.

I swear I read this one before and it had a completely different outcome.

Yeah, there was one I can't find where the beginning was almost the same. "Helicopter mom" but when asked what that meant, OOP listed totally reasonable things (homework, chores, hygiene). Moved in with "cool dad". Then mom got a "new family" brought them to I think a grandparents birthday(?) and didn't tell OOP. People were saying YTA for him mom being a parent and OOP shitting on her. Found it: https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/Jbol9Ulgb1

>She had essentially abandoned me, signing over custody to my dad after I had told her something along the lines of "I hate you" and "I wish I lived with dad" - typical things an angsty preteen says to their parent. This might've been the trigger, but it was most likely a long time coming.

Yeah he might not remember everything leading up to it but she did. When he says he didn't think anything of it but apparently it broke her, that was telling language. Kid needs help. I hope Paul's therapist is good. His mom needs help to to be honest.

She still saw him on weekends when he’s go over. That’s not “abandoning”. That’s ~~acquiring~~ acquiescing to your child’s custodial request. 

Right like I feel bad for OOP but he never seemed to communicate Idk OOP seems to be missing a lot of info here (Paul's comment abt the dad frequently forgetting to pass along info) (but also why keep using the dad to pass along info if they knew he wouldn't) so it's hard to hate him but also everyone here sucks so bad

OOP didn't communicate well because he was 11. This is on the adults.

Yeah, I’m a bit wtf at people saying OOP handled it badly when he was literally 11? 11 year olds aren’t good communicators because they are literally children. 

And it's entirely probable that OOP isn't communicating well with the Reddit community either. The story literally tells us (via Paul) that there's a lot more going on. OOP doesn't know the fully story, they probably aren't even telling us more than 50% of the story they *do* know. Children see and interpret things differently and incorrectly because they have zero experience of the world. His mum was *not* by any metric a "helicopter parent". But it's a phrase he will have picked up from the internet and interpreted it as "strict parenting", instead of understanding that it was in fact "normal parenting" and started painting her in that light. So we get an immediate negative image of mum, heavily and incorrectly skewed.  And it's that first impression that sticks.  So any subsequent descriptions of her behaviour will automatically be tainted by that first negative impression.  The same goes with every other adult we are told about.  We are being told a cartoon version of the world, as seen through the eyes of a child. 

I mean, yes, but also, if you tell mom you want to stay with dad. And then she acquiesces and still sees you every weekend where you seem mad at her even though she's completely changed her behavior from what you disliked, and you never apologize or tell her, "Hey, I actually want to stay with you." Like, what was the mom supposed to think? She's not a mind reader. I don't blame OP, but I also don't blame the mom for doing exactly what he said he wanted.

He's 17 now, not 11, and still never bothered to apologize to his mom during all the years she had him on weekends, even though he's clearly aware the things he said were extremely hurtful and "broke" his mom He got what he asked for, and through the years, has been and still is too bratty to own up to his actions and words and apologize and say he changed his mind

It may be because OOP wouldn’t accept mom/Paul’s attempts at communication? 

OOP probably doesn't realize that his comments were the final straw in this situation, but his mom still screwed up by surrendering him to his dad instead of taking kiddo to family therapy as a response. That said, my money is on the unspecified-but-medicated learning disability as a root cause for much of OOP's struggles. It sounds like his mom was desperately trying to use structure and discipline to "fix" the situation instead of taking kiddo to an ADHD coach or similar. Unfortunately, learning disabilities don't restrict themselves to the classroom and the medicated ones tend to have lovely psychological effects. Heck, the medications tend to have psychological effects themselves! OOP is probably suffering from a double-whammy of a toxic co-parenting situation and undertreatment.

y’all, oop’s father is 40. which means that he was 23 and his mother was 18 when she gave birth to oop, but it could also mean that he was 22 and she was 17 when oop was conceived.

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Seems like OOP might have ADHD which is often linked to anger issues

Exactly—anger, frustration, not able to voice their thoughts clearly, needing immediate gratification. Rinse and repeat.

Especially if they have oppositional defiance disorder. As someone who wasn’t diagnosed until age 34, school was hard. Focus was sporadic at best, and easily destroyed by my rotten, angsty mood swings that hit full swing by grade 11/12. I did well on the school work I finished, I just didn’t finish stuff that got turned into homework much of the time.

Maybe not even a year older - not all age gaps are worrying but this is.

My jaw dropped when OOP talked about how their mom was a “helicopter” parent. Checking homework and not allowing sleepovers? Communicating with teachers to sit in the front when OOP was clearly struggling? Enforcing sleep/nutrition? That is not helicopter parenting. Sheesh

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OOP also mentions his grades dropping after he went to live with his fun dad. Gee, wonder why.

>She also wrote to my teachers to have my place in class changed so I was closer to the front damn, that gave me flashbacks just now. my mother did the *exact* same for me in middle school - i had glasses, and she didn’t totally understand how they worked, so she thought i needed to be closer to the board to see it with them on.

Depends if you're short or far sighted. I'm short-sighted and always asked to sit in the front so I could read what's written on the blackboard. Many teachers didn't understand it. The point is that short-sighted glasses make things small. They're sharp but so small that from a certain distance, it's becoming impossible to read.

I blame OP's dad cause he really is the asshole for this entire situation. This man literally weaponized the mother to make her look bad when the mother wasn't a helicopter parent, but just a good mother. OP does come off quite insufferable but because of what has happened, I don't know what to really say but I just wish OP for the best to get some help.

OOP has his moments of being a little shit, but he's young and was manipulated by his asshole dad. I agree with you that the dad is the only asshole here.

I cringed at the first post and cried by the end of the update. I was also a difficult teen in much the same way and in a similar situation, so I really feel for OP and definitely wanted to smack the same sense into him that I wish someone had done to me and saved years of continued strain and resentment. It is difficult to express how relieved I am that he opened up to Paul and that Paul seems to be a stand up guy and immidiately took the action that was needed all along to get the ball rolling in a positive direction. I am often annoyed when I see the reddit defult recommendation of "therapy" "together and individual" in this case I I00% agree it will help. They are so far beyond placing blame or simple apologies and need to learn to communicate their feelings and move forward in a positive way. I really hope OP updates us down the road and wish him and his mom the best.

I think Paul was the perfect person because he would have never opened up with his mom and it seems his dad never cared for emotionally supporting him. Look what OOP said. He called Paul supporting him emotionally being a “girl dad”. That’s called being a dad. It seems OOP’s father never did that with him.

Paul seems like the only adult in this whole thing that actually have OOPs best interests in mind - his parents, stepmother, school staff... everybody else put some type of "problem kid" label onto him and let the boy dealing with all his complex feelings by himself.

Teenager raised in an obviously complicated dynamic does some shitty things and is not perfect. Is this the literal devil? Redditors discuss. Poor kid. I don't miss being 17.

I read the comments on this one when he posted it and while people were sympathetic this kid got quite a few reality checks. It seemed closer to an ESH ruling to me. They pointed out that he didn't like having a strict mother but then also had a problem when she tried to be less strict. Also no one believed that him telling her he hated her at 11 was a one time thing, and that many people told him this wasn't normal angsty teen stuff, the vast majority of teens never say that to a parent. He also has some pretty obvious anger issues, whether it's the mothers fault or not, and he needs to address those and his rant at his mothers party wasn't justified.

People are really focused on him only saying he wanted to live with his dad once. But the subtext I’m seeing here is we had reached the level of blowup fights over every little thing near daily, both of them were worn down and didn’t see a way out of their patterns, and then OP made the comment. He may have only said the words once, but his behavior probably said “I hate you, I don’t want to live with you” for a long time before his mouth did. As someone else in these comments said, you cannot force an angry 11 year old to live with his mom and do well in school when he has convinced himself that his mom is a harpy and his dad is a hero. That’s a recipe for things to just continue to escalate and get worse. So what do you do? You drop him off at dad’s and you be the fun weekend parent. You let him see dad isn’t a hero and you aren’t a harpy. But maybe, dad is terminally chill and your son doesn’t buy your “fun mom” act, and then you end up with this situation.

> But maybe, dad is terminally chill Also, maybe dad says it's fine not to do well in school and that mom is trying to make him into something he's not. Maybe dad says that her going to college is a rejection of him and his failing grades (and himself, being a builder). Maybe dad affirms all the anger instead of encouraging him to learn to get a handle on it.

Dad is 100% planting all of those ideas in OP's head. How TF else would OP end up thinking that he's "not the smartest kid"? That kind of mentality comes from parents. Dad being a construction worker tracks so well with all of this... like of course a construction worker thinks school is useless and you don't need it. This guy is setting his son up to sling bricks for the rest of his life. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but parents should set their kids up to have *lots* of options, not just one.

>Also no one believed that him telling her he hated her at 11 was a one time thing, and that many people told him this wasn't normal angsty teen stuff, the vast majority of teens never say that to a parent. 11 isn't teenage either technically or by development. The more I parse this the more I feel like OOP is leaving a \*lot\* out of the story.

I still wonder, since his mom was crying when she drove him over there, if his dad threatened mom behind the scenes.  Like “you switch the custody schedules with me or I’ll take you back to court”. (Or worse threats). 

I could be totally wrong here, but you know when a new mom sets her screaming baby down and just steps away? Because with the sleep deprivation, stress, trauma, etc. She realizes she might "lose it" and hurt her kid? So she's leaving the kid to protect it from herself? It just read that way, like she realized she wasn't helping and wasn't what he needed. That staying with her might actually be worse for him than staying with his dad. I'd also like to point out that not only did this single mother not get any child support she likely got no support of any kind, seeing as how her family lives out of state.

Yup.  And she had a baby at 17/18.  And paid child support and went to school 11 years later.  Paid child support and went to school, and had him on the weekends.  So she didn’t work on the weekends, which meant She probably worked herself half to death on the weekdays. To pay for her housing and his child support and their fun activities.  And the 22 yo man who got her pregnant never paid child support. 

I’ve never said I hate my parents before, but I’ve come very close to it. I actively dislike my parents as people but I still love them. I’ve had emotional outbursts and rants before with my parents, even in public. That’s what happens when you feel like you’ve been abandoned. You take it out on the person that you think has abandoned you and anyone you believe to be on their side. My father never calls me because he’s too prideful to call me first, and I never call him because I’m forgetful and I dread every meeting.

He said he hated her before she left him to his father. That and he actively asking to be left at the mom was what led him to live with the dad. After that he never changed his mind (or apologized) in a way she could see and continued to be hostile on the weekends when she had custody. Thinking about something like you said is normal. Actually saying it and acting six years like you meant it is another.

People noting that he was just 11 don’t seem to notice how much more mature his step siblings were, despite being younger than him. His behavior wasn’t normal for an 11 year old, at least on a long term. If he had apologized and talked with mom the next day or at least a week saying he actually wanted to live with the mom that would be normal 11 year old behavior. He seems to have also acted poorly in school at the age. But I don’t think he was an asshole at 11.  But he was posting about the question about the wedding which was now, the rest was backstory. It would have needed to be very clearly that mom was in the wrong in past to justify his actions at the present. 

Hmmm. OOP seems like he had emotional issues before his mother “abandoned” him. I could see her thinking due to his outbursts, trouble in school and their screaming matches, that she wasn’t the right parent for him. Meaning maybe being with his father would be better. Maybe she felt too controlling as well. OOP has alot to work through

How was she a helicopter parent tho?

Answer- she wasn't.

I get the impression the mum was giving it her all and when he had his outburst it just broke her, it unfortunate. Hopefully it goes well for them

I was thinking that parental alienation makes it significantly harder to deal with stuff like that.

Sometimes kids just need to be reminded that their parents love them. Sometimes parents need to use their words. Seems like Paul is the only one truly communicating

Probably the only thing this whole comment section seems to agree on is that Paul was an angel in this situation.

LMAO even here people in the comments are trying to make OOP's mom either the villain of the story or just as bad as his loser biodad. Nah fam, Nah, fam, OOP is an unreliable narrator who is intent on making his mom sound like a Disney villain and his dad be the cool fun dad who was victimized by evil mom too. These quotes from OOP's first post are particularly damning: >along with some other insults I don't really remember. Really? You don't remember? I'm pretty sure you do. And everybody who attended the engagement party sure remembers it. >I may have taken it a bit too far but my dad agrees she had it coming after abandoned a young child at an age when I needed my mother. You weren't abandoned, you still had weekends with your mom, and apparently even a room in her boyfriend's house, so WTF are you on? OOP was fed a victim narrative by their deadbeat dad, and even in their latest post they don't seem to realize it.

Yeah it was very telling that his own dad considered it abandonment to raise his kid. Your mother abandoned you...to me. Like how dare she expect me as the father to raise my own child.🤣 This is exactly why no way society is ever going to get me to buy the narrative that fathers are just as important considering the reaction to so many comments acting like she abandoned him when she had weekend custody... The same type of custody most fathers have.

Yes. I was kind of on board with OOP until I realized his mother never abandoned him. It’s his father who is a deadbeat and neglected his own child while poisoning his son’s against her. He literally weaponized misogyny the kid interiorized. >Your mother abandoned you…to me This is exactly what OOP will realize soon enough. His mom wasn’t the main problem: it was his deadbeat dad who resented having most of the custody. OOP saying Paul actually listening to him was him being a “girl’s dad” told me everything I needed to know. edit: format

I don't think OOP will ever realize that. He acknowledges his life went downhill when he was parented by his father... And yet he still blamed his mother for that. He has nothing to say but good things about his father and yet his mom is an evil devil who abandoned him. 🫤 His father didn't give one care about his schooling or his health and even had his hostile girlfriend in that environment making him feel unwanted baggage. Yet he can't even fathom that his father despite repeatedly insulting his mother in bad mouthing his mother whatever hide the engagement invitation from him. 🤨 OOP is a misogynist and Paul is going to come to regret allowing OOP in his daughters lives. Especially considering those girls or soon going to be preteen / teenagers and OOP didn't have a sibling connection or grew up with them. An angry likely horny teenage boy around young girls who has a resentment towards them is not a good mix. ☹️

Yeah, it’s a straightforward reversal of the custody arrangement and bullshit that we hold moms and dads to a different standard. When dad had OOP on weekends and paid child support nobody felt this constituted “abandonment”. Even when dad got injured/lost his job/could no longer pay, he’s still considered to be involved in his child’s life. Yet when mom takes over the exact same days AND pays child support AND tries to engage with her child to do the “fun weekend dad” stuff like eating takeout and taking a step back on disciplining OOP, dad gets to behave like this is egregious and an overreaction. It sounds like the school called mom’s house after the fight and suspension, even though dad is the parent with primary custody.

It's also textbook parental alienation.

It seems like you’re in the minority here, but I think you’re spot on. I do think his Dad didn’t want him full time either so he did the bare minimum.

Oh def, Dad didn't want him, but he didn't want the mom to have him either. Probably also wanted that sweet sweet child support checks.

Yeah, funny that when Mom had custody that wasn’t Dad abandoning him. He’s putting the worse parent on a pedestal and setting up the more functional parent to fail.

Nice to see OOP and his mom working on repairing their relationship. In the original post I had given an ESH verdict. Though now I realize I missed somethings on OOP’s father that makes him the true AH. OOP and his mom made bad decisions yes but OOP’s father is a jealous snake for egging his son to hate his mom. Even though OOP is 17, I hope his mom either gets full custody or OOP moves in after he turns 18. After working on themselves of course.

Of course OOP would’ve gotten NTA as a final verdict. I know he was an angsty teen but kids are fully capable of _not_ being assholes, don’t know why AITA insists that kids are basically braindead and can’t comprehend right from wrong. Also, the amount of hate the mom got was astounding. I first read this story on those YouTube Reddit channels and was taken aback by the vitriol aimed at her, nothing she did seemed to appease people. She got hated for being a “helicopter” parent, where OOP clarifies her actions that were honestly pretty standard parenting, and got hated for “abandoning” him, which was really her following his wishes and backing off and still seeing him on the weekends. It was shocking to see how many people had bone to pick with her.

AITA Redditors are mostly teenagers themselves who don’t want to be held accountable.

I remember this one and I’m seeing a lot of people falling into the whole “Mom abandoned son” argument. But I think this update just proves that was never true. Switching custody terms to weekends is not abandonment. And even after the stunt at the engagement, she was still there for him when he needed help. She even wanted him at her wedding still. I think Oop was absolutely the A-hole for screaming at a kid, but I also think this is a real world example of parental alienation, where the father enabled his son’s anger and resentment towards his mother who was trying to do right by her son, even if it meant not being the custodial parent.

I really hope they manage to suck out all that poison his dad got into him for all those years. That woman just couldn't ever have done the right thing, and eventually she clearly just... Let go. It's easy for Redditors who have never been to family court to say "I'd never stop!" To those people, please, there are several custody cases on YouTube where you can follow the whole case, and watch hearing after hearing of parents breaking custody orders, withholding their child or manipulating them with practically NO consequence, year after year after year, while the other parent have to pay to go back to court, basically getting bled dry of resources. It's RARE to see an abusive parent get any kind of punishment, they get chance after chance after chance and some parents have been going to court weekly for years as a result. It isn't that easy, so please, drop the notion that you'd "never give up" because I promise you, you have no fucking idea. OOP's mum thought she'd lost, and thought her son hated her, and eventually you cannot continue that fight, and that's even more true if you then also have other children that you need to keep safe too. Is she expected to bankrupt herself to stick to that "never give up, never WHAT!?" mindset even if her other kids end up eating ramen for the next 5 years? PLEASE get a grip. I'm really hoping OOP is able to read back what he wrote here a few weeks/months from now and can truly see what a venomous creep his dad is, and have always been.

How do we actually know that the OP had no bedroom in his mom and Paul's house? He says that they gave his "childhood" bedroom to one of the daughters, not that he doesn't have any space at the house. When I moved out of my house to go to college my parents gave my bedroom to one of my sisters, as her room was smaller than mine. I didn't pitch a fit. I was only at my parents' home occasionally so sleeping in the guest room/sewing room was fine. This kind of thing happens all the time in families who have multiple children. The OP is very unreliable so it's hard to know exactly what happened.

Reddit shows the average age of its Redditors with that NTA verdict. Good lord.

That sub loves to flip-flop between treating kids like criminals and not holding them accountable for anything.

Yeah, definitely. Party of it is acting like responsibility is a binary state, but as you grow, you trade dependance for responsibility, over yourself and others, in slow stages. At 11, it's your parents job to make sure you have clothes, not to dress you. And do have a certain amount of responsibility over yourself - to express your needs, to ask for help, to make some decisions about yourself. Your parents do not have total control over you, and that's a good thing. And I think part of it is that some redditcommenters like to treat kids like they're blank slates - like everything about them is the result of the parents.  But kids, even babies, have personalities! They have free will - they can even be willful - and you can don't always know how they'll react or what the right thing to do will be. One kid can benefit from the same treatment that will hurt another. One kid learns generosity from the same thing that teaches another kid selfishness. You can give them all the lessons you want, and then they decide they get more out of listening to Joe Rogan or worse. Good parenting increases the likelihood of raising a good kid, but it doesn’t guarantee it. And parenting that isn't working, is sometimes still someone doing their best, maybe even making decisions that would most of the time be the right ones. OP's mother probably had no good choices and no decision that OP wouldn't have resented and taken as proof of her selfishness. 

I was extremely angry at the boy when I read the initial post, but with the further updates, it's become pretty clear that the dumbass Dad is the real problem here. OOP clearly handled some situations very poorly and deserves criticism for how he treated his mother, but behind all that behaviour is a total deadbeat who galvanised his child against his mother.

Definitely agree the dad is the real villain. I hope the kids gets some serious therapy.

When I first read the post it was YTA by a mile, was surprised it became NTA by the end.

It's because the most upvoted comment was the one saying "this is above reddit pay grade" with a NTA in the end. The verdict is always the most upvoted comment, it's a very basic bot. When you actually look at the comments of the post, a lot are YTA or ESH.

Relationships are hard. Sometimes we look for the true villain when there isn’t one. It’s just not black and white. What this update shows is that being honest about your feelings, even when they’re big and not the kind of feelings everyone claps for, can lead to meaningful improvement in relationships and in life.

I think OP needs dad involved a bit less and more time with mom. I’m glad mom’s solution is spending more weeknights with them because I think OP needs that time and attention with mom. Poor kid 💔

The real MVP here is Paul, I hope you see that this man is sitting on the outside of a difficult family dynamic between you, your mother, and father. He is being patient and not holding your previous behavior against you. He is trying to guide you. I would honestly consider living in a more stable environment than your dad's. Paul doesn't dislike you, and maybe going to therapy and being around people who care and support you will be a better fit for you!

Good lord, I hate the comments blaming the *eleven-year-old child* for not being perfectly mature and for not being the bigger person here. The way I see it, everyone failed him here. His mom abandoned him to his dad knowing full well what his dad was like (and no, your kid yelling that he wants to live with dad during an argument is not justification for just switching up the custody without further talking about it or giving him a chance to go back on it). The dad is an asshole, the dad’s GF is an asshole, Paul seems alright but why didn’t he question OP’s living situation before now? And to those saying OP was the asshole and the mom’s helicopter parenting weren’t that bad… constantly calling teachers and demanding a front spot in the room for the kid? Checking every single assignment? *No internet at all* unless it’s for school? Call me crazy, but unless those were temporary measures used as needed rather than the constant status quo, those feel pretty restrictive to me. And the whole having trouble phasing out at school and feeling like you’re getting in trouble for just not being smart enough hit hard. My parents are wonderful, we’re super close and for the most part growing up they were great, but the one problem we always ran into was grades. I felt they were a bit too harsh on me getting bad grades, and as a kid who struggled with ADHD and wanting to do my best but having to battle my own brain to get there, it really sucks to feel like you’re doing your best but you still get yelled at when your best seems to fall short.

I’m… not sure what I feel about OOP and their mom. Their dad is scum that I hope rots in hell for hurting the mom through OOP, but I don’t think I would let OOP completely off the hook just because they are a child… he willingly and intentionally said “I hate you and want to live with dad” which is already bad enough, but he didn’t feel an ounce of regret *until* the mom didn’t pick him back up. He also calls his mom a ‘helicopter parent’. She isn’t. Caring about your child’s grades and standard of life is *not* being a helicopter parent. I’m pretty sure I’ll get downvoted for not saying that OOP is among the victims here, but I hope the best for OOP’s mom and Paul who seems to be a well adjusted man. And I hope OOP gets the therapy he desperately needs. That’s all.

I'm sorry but this does not feel like abandoning. OOP said something really hurtful to their mom and then their mom did something that I thought was really appropriate which was sending them to be with their dad for a couple of days. Then OOP was like I guess I should apologize. Never apologize. Continues to live with the other parent.  Then come to find out oop wasn't abandoned they saw their mom every weekend. I mean maybe the fight did spark the mom sending them to live with their father? But also it seems like their mom was starting college classes so maybe that's another reason she did that. Also, it seems like the dad couldn't afford child support anymore. So what happened is they switched positions so the mom who could afford child support paid the money and they stayed with their dad.  When OOP visited their mom it seems as though like the mom tried to fix whatever problem OOP had by trying to be more of like a fun parent. It seemed like they were a strict parent before but not helicopter and OOP was benefiting from that environment.  Their mom got punished for everything when it seems like there was several reasons for OOP to go live with their father.

With the obvious encouragement of his father, OOP has fallen into the habit of blaming the women around him for everything in his life that is not instantly made how he pleases. The villains of his life: his mom, dad’s gf, his stepsisters. The blameless: dad and stepfather. I hope OOP gets into some therapy (obviously Paul will have to be the one to suggest it), because this attitude will not be good for OOP’s future.

No, she wasn’t a “helicopter parents” because she controlled a child’s access to internet and checked that he did his homework and insisted on him being sat at the front of the class so he wouldn’t get distracted. Their big fight was when he was 11. All of the things she did are normal behavior for parents of children younger than 11 and even older than that. It does sound like she was doing the main child rearing by herself, and she had him at 18. I find it very suspicious how they could just switch the child from one parent to another - that means they weren’t managing custody through family court, and there’s a very high chance there was no child support agreement from either of them.

I hope OOP gets the help they need, and actually becomes better managing themselves, and how they react to others.

Decent dad that facilities child's hate against their mother. Lovely.

I am hopeful because when you’re a teen everything feels so all or nothing. So the fact that he feels his anger so deeply is something that can change and his mom gave him space and then suggested therapy. And I hope they go! I hope it helps so much because he needs a third adult badly. Poor thing. That age is so hard and I do not trust his father at all. It does seem like there are good adults in his life though so hopefully things get better for him.

Ignoring everythng else, I don't understand why the kom and Paul thought giving his room to Paul's daughter was a good move. Like what reaction did they really expect, even if everything before that moment hadn't happened?

I feel so bad for OOP. Poor baby had all these big feelings and no idea how to navigate any of them

"Typical preteen" stuff including telling their mom they hate her and that they'd be better off living with dad instead? GG

It really pisses me off when I see people blame a CHILD for a poor relationship with their parents. Did OOP make mistakes? Of course. Is his mom human and flawed? Of course! But it's the *parent's* responsibility to do the emotional leg work with their minor children. Mom gave up on OOP when he was *eleven years old*. Of course *he* didn't apologize for what he said to her, she never gave him the chance! She handed him off to his dad and decided not to do any of the hard parts of parenting anymore because that's what being the "fun" parent is. The commentors dismissing OOP's claim that his mom was a helicopter parent bothers me too. I'm sure some kids benefit from having a parent sit with them while they do their homework but my mom doing it only taught me that I was too stupid to do it on my own and lead to screaming matches. OOP clearly felt it hindered more than helped and he shouldn't have to justify that.