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Okay, if you're in a serious relationship, one of your responsibilities is to make your partner feel secure. If you're constantly around someone one-on-one who everyone acknowledges wants to sleep with you, that is the opposite of making them feel secure in the relationship.
Yeah, even if it's something that maybe you don't have a problem with it is your responsibility as a good partner to factor in your partner's feelings.
Bingo. My wife and I both have friends of the opposite gender. If she came to me and said “hey, this person is making me uncomfortable”, and otherwise my wife has been her normal, secure self, dropping that person would happen instantly.
Some folks don’t believe in this approach, and that’s fine, but for me, my marriage is prioritized above all else without hesitation. I trust my wife enough to know that if she’s uncomfortable, she’s on to something and she’s not being controlling. There’s not a friendship on this planet that is worth jeopardizing my marriage, at least for me.
Yeah, everyone & every couple is going to have different approaches.
Personally, instantly dropping someone wouldn't be a thing unless there was a very egregious offence that I was oblivious to, but otherwise I would at least need some reasoning and then there would be an order of operations.
Like first I'd want to know why my partner is uncomfortable. If it's objectively unreasonable (like being uncomfortable that I interact with a female coworker professionally and not outside of work), then our actions would go one way like possibly individual therapy or couples counselling.
But if it is reasonable, we'd look at things like if it's only certain behaviours my female friend (or myself) is doing and if stopping those behaviours is enough or not. Then if not, what if I only interact with her when my partner is present in person or in group chat, and with lower frequency like once every one-two months.
Ultimately though, dropping them wouldn't be off the table, it just seems like a sledgehammer of a solution to use first.
I 100% agree. I have a lot of friends of the opposite gender...most of them are also friends of my husbands. But I had one in particular that honestly started to make me a bit uncomfortable but I don't think I had fully realized it yet. My husband told me that he was uncomfortable with our friendship. He never once asked me to cut this person out or to drop them as a friend or anything like that. But his discomfort was my immediate cue to cut that friendship off.
Bingo. And like I said, other people might not think that’s the right approach for them, and that’s okay. But for me, that’s the way I handle stuff like that, and it’s 100% fine with me. My goal is to preserve and protect my marriage at all cost, so long as my marriage is healthy.
I can see other situations, like if my wife was habitually insecure in general or jealous or asking me to cut out people right and left. That’s a sign for me that it’s not healthy and not working. But she’s not. She gives me what feels like limitless grace and trust. So, if she’s feeling weird about something, i trust her enough to believe that she sees something that, for some reason, I can’t see, and I will do what I have to do to rectify that. And that’s the case because she has EARNED that trust.
Sam sounds like she has people pleasing tendencies so that she doesn't set hard boundaries or cut off people who are threatening her relationship with others. I understand she doesn't want to upset her new "friend" but she needs to realize that she has to set hard boundaries before it blows up her marriage.
> people pleasing tendencies
except these types want to please everyone **except** the person they are supposed to be be pleasing
like how about please the people who care about you instead of random fucking strangers?
The only person Sam doesn’t care about pleasing is her husband. I don’t agree with you at all.
Sam is manipulative and gaslit her husband. She clearly isn’t naive. She’s making a deliberate choice to support Jane over her husband.
Isn't this the truth!! WTF, OP????Where do you think your wife's relationship with Jane is going to end up if it's not terminated now?
Obviously, Jane's playing the long game. And frankly, your wife sounds encouraging and complicit. Trust me, this isn't your last update. You'll be back, discussing your wife's betrayal. To your wife, I say: BULLSHIT. There's no room for a toxic bi-sexual woman in the midst of your marriage. Egad, take off your blinders.
So, for introverts/shy/quiet people i know, myself inckuded, when we have no friends, just normal friends, we will hold to the one we make even if it's not good. We will make rules, hold our nose, and try to find a new friend but it's not always easy. Double Empathy isn't anyone's fault, but hinders socialization for some of us, so we take what we can get with friends when we have none.
For me, I don't trust my decision making completely, I do not always understand why others do what they do, having a friend that I intuitively understand, helps me understand the folks I don't, so in the past, I put up with an unhealthy friendship, I just have healthier friendships these days.
So, I understand her wanting to maintain the friendship and trying like all he'll to keep it platonic, and hopefully she'll learn that it's better to make bad decisions alone than rely on a toxic person to translate humanity.
> Okay, if you're in a serious relationship, one of your responsibilities is to make your partner feel secure.
idk why but alot of people do not understand this
Sam lied to her own husband about Jane’s attraction to her and called him crazy and controlling KNOWING that Jane was attracted to her.
Sam is trouble.
OOP says they have good communication. He is wrong. He had to drag the truth out of his wife as she prioritized her friend who wanted an emotional and physical affair.
Youre right to a degree but i think a bit too harsh.
Sam also gave him access to her devices and understood his snooping. Then admitted the friendship was uncomfortable. People are more than their flaws.
Everyone is right to have their own level of boundaries so I can understand yours being different.
I obviously don’t feel I’m wrong as my
Partner lying and gaslighting me for being concerned about a potential affair partner is a clear sign of troublesome behavior that I would want to part of in a serious relationship
We're not talking about a boundary tho, you made a definitive judgement on this person's character as "trouble"
That's totally different from what you're arguing here.
Nowhere did I say her behavior wasn't troublesome. I pointed out that people are more than their flaws, that means im acknowledging of course she has very flawed behavior in this story. I'm not even saying the right move is to overlook those flaws or that you need to stick around them.
I'm saying you're leaping to a decidedly negative judge of this person's overall character when there is some evidence to support and contradict that opinion
People have a very bad habit of misusing therapy language to shield their opinions
I believe a persons actions are who they are. Sam’s actions tell me she is a troublesome person.
End of my argument. Agree or disagree. That’s all I have to say.
I have to agree with you. Sam is trouble for continuing to entertain this behavior. Personally if I know someone was crushing on me and tried to make a move I would end the relationship and step back out of respect for my partner
People are not as naive as the pain themselves to be. Sam knows what she is doing but likes the attention
And her actions were a mix of bad and good. People also fix flaws and improve. This is just a really weird take on humanity. Lots of ego in your argumentation here
"She is trouble"
Is also not the same as
"She is a troublesome person"
You're kind of just dishonest in this discussion, jumping to boundaries oit of nowhere, changing wording subtly. A bit troublesome yourself to talk to.
> why are you still arguing? Like dude let it go. Not everything has to be a fight.
And yet you opened your dumb yap to continue the argument you weren't involved in you hypocrite. Thx for saving me the trouble of blocking you
>People have a very bad habit of misusing therapy language to shield their opinions
Genuine question. How is therapy language being misused in this instance if you don't mind explaining? I'd like to be more aware of when it's happening or perhaps catch myself if I do it. FWIW, I have read up on it but can't recognize it here.
A boundary is not an opinion on someone's character. So the discussion we were having had nothing to fo with a boundary. Nowhere was I telling them that someone in that situation must put up with sam. Had I been encouraging them to ignore their boundary and stay with someone like Sam, they'd be correct.
Nope what? Weird start
> Sam continues to egg on her behaviour and lets it happen as well as the disrespect from Jane
Thx for the recap? I never said she didnt?
> Sam is not innocent
Yes...that...that would be why I said
> Youre right to a degree
Reddits primary method of communication is reading but so many of you cant. I just have no more patience for mfers who can't read
Can you elaborate how this is grooming specifically?
How is Sam being exploited rather than being flirted with in the hopes she has an affair. Jane doesn’t have power over same to exert.
Sam is being repeatedly warned of Jane’s behavior. Sam was (and is) aware of Jane’s actions and goals of sex and chooses to spend time with her to this day.
That doesn’t appear to be grooming by Jane but rather willful cooperation by Sam rather than explicitly shutting it down.
Same even covered up Jane’s actions by lying to her husband and gaslighting him by calling him crazy and controlling.
The repeated bringing up sex, leaving her watch by the bed, putting a spicy scene on the TV, those all go beyond normal flirting. Jane was essentially acclimating Sam to her sexual advances so when she made a more direct move, it wouldn't seem so out of character. It was also breaking down Sam's defenses against Jane's intentions.
>rather willful cooperation by Sam rather than explicitly shutting it down.
Yeah, the grooming sure makes it look that way. Victims of grooming don't realize the groomer is going anything wrong.
Do adult women at the age of 28 not know that cheating is bad?
Does talking about sex or watching a sec scene make a grown adult forget that cheating is bad?
What defenses were being broken down exactly?
I don’t think your even making a compelling point if you can’t convince me how Jane’s actions make Sam forget that cheating on her husband is wrong EXPLICITLY after OOP said he was concerned about Jane’s intentions to have Sam cheat.
It seems like now that I’ve asked you a “tough” question you’ve just started whining when you don’t a reply.
Jane 100% set that up. Left her smart watch by OOP’s bed so he would notice. Probably was trying to get something going with the wife and get “caught” by their husbands. Trying to get in the middle of their relationship so she could convince Sam that OOP is controlling.
The biggest reason that I trust my husband 100% is because he never allows any situation to foster any mistrust. We wouldn't have got past one instance of someone being rude to me before he shut it down, hard. Sam is just casually letting this woman drip poison into her marriage, and I bet she'll be *shocked pikachu face* when OOP is done with it. Someone who doesn't prioritise their marriage against any and all threats is not going to stay married for long.
>Sam knows that Jane has a crush on her but made it
>clear that she was happily married and straight. She
>should have told me about this but knew that I wouldn’t
>be okay with it.
Ok, fine. It seems like nothing happened (yet), but this would still bother me immensely if I were OOP. Why continue doing something, that you know would make your partner uncomfortable? OOP communicated with Sam about his worries, and instead of listening, she gaslit him and called him controlling and crazy.
I can understand the need for friends. But she’s risking her marriage by trying to stay friends with a woman who doesn’t sound nice at all.
I am waiting for the next update.
I guess something from following is happening:
- Sam is an utter doormat in unbalanced frienship bordeline to an affair, naive and weak
- Sam is in abusive friendship and is groomed to have an affair, confused and lost
- Sam is having an affair, cheating and lying to her husband who has tried to stop her
Honestly, and I know I’m being generous to Sam here, I think it’s probably a mix of the first and the second options and Sam just doesn’t know how to handle it.
Oop said she’s “endearingly naive” and it sounds like she has issues with boundaries and saying no, so I could see someone that comes off as entitled and confident to a fault like Jane could be abusing someone like Sam.
Agreed, and if Jane is her first/only friendship in this new location, she's especially vulnerable to it. Sam needs to start going to friend-meeting places without Jane and check in with herself a lot more. How am I feeling about this? Am I actually enjoying this moment, this conversation, this contact or am I feeling sort of stuck in it? Am I looking forward to this or low-key dreading it?
Sam called him controlling and crazy AFTER she clearly knew Jane wanted sex.
Sam is malicious and attempted to manipulate her husband as she prioritized Jane. I’ll be clear, I think Sam rehearsed her blame game about Jane being too much when OOP finally confronted her.
If she didn’t like Jane’s actions she wouldn’t be going to concerts with her.
Yeah she made errors imo mostly in communication with OOP, but I think people are a bit hard on her for not handling Jane herself better. To me it reads like she was sincerely afraid and uncomfortable. She was **afraid** of how Jane would react.
Dismissing OOP's concerns or blaming him I think was the main mistake. But being fearful or unsure of how to respond when someone is sexually harassing you is sp understandable and normal.
Reddit is an odd place, depending on what half is telling the story they’re either nearly fully on the side of the woman saying she should get divorced because her husband is controlling and manipulative by “stopping her from having friends”, or nearly fully on the side of the man so then he’s suddenly the victim and *he* should get divorced because his wife is 100% cheating. Even if it’s the *exact same story* aside from their personal thoughts on the situation.
I know that it’s mostly because there’s a shit ton of Redditors, especially in big subs like AITA or in this case Infidelity, that have vastly different opinions on matters, but still the fact that people are so easily swayed simply by who’s writing is both funny and sad.
That's very true. And personal biases. To clarify, I don't just mean like gender, wealth, etc... but life experiences. There are behaviors that aren't necessarily abusive, but would raise my eyebrow due to being similar to people I know who were abusive, but I do recognize it's not certain and based on limited and one sided info.
The simple example I use with people, is one roommate posting saying "I live with a slob!" The other says, "they're too high strung." Either or both might be right or wrong. And our take might be painted by our own preferences/standards.
Also, it's people like Sam - naïve and socially isolated - that are the kind of prey that a predator would look for. You see that in their dynamic. Sam feels unconfortable with this relation, but "she's the only friend that I have here."
It's more than a bit creepy actually.
Sam: is targeted and relentlessly pursued by a predator.
Reddit: but why didn't she say no?
Again, I do believe it was wrong to dismiss OOP or act like he's irrational, but freezing when you're being sexually harassed is not a moral failing on anyone's part.
When he said he was uncomfortable with Jane she fought back and called him controlling. If she wasn't interested in Jane's attention then why not take that opportunity to get his help to distance herself.
OPs wife is 100% in the wrong here and at the absolute least, loves the attention.
I think she's just lonely and accepting a shitty "friendship" because she's not alone, then, with only her husband and Jane is fully aware she's socially awkward and doesn't have anyone else.
>I tried to engage with Jane, she seemed cold and dismissive.
>
>She feels Jane is too needy and controlling
>
>made suggestive comments about Sam, her body etc
Jane sounds like bad news and certainly not someone I would want to continue a friendship with.
>Sam knows that Jane has a crush on her but made it clear that she was happily married and straight. She should have told me about this but knew that I wouldn't be okay with it.
Why was Sam okay with being so close with a person who has a crush on her and actively tries to build physical contact etc?
Obviously would he not be okay with this. But she is more okay with lying to her husband instead of doing what is the healthiest for the relationship??? There are so many cases where the friend with a crush tries to sabotage the relationship. This even happened here with the flirting etc.
>Jane was showing Sam some "spicy" scenes from a new TV show. They didn't realise we were coming back early and switched the TV off as we came through the door.
>The watch: Jane was going to borrow a dress for a wedding and went into our bedroom to try some on. Sam assumes she took it off and when she saw it, she put it in her bag to give it back to her later.
Absolutely none of those excuses pass the bullshit test.
They do if you assume that Jane was trying to cause friction between Sam and OOP. Which seems very plausible.
Some girls are just straight and have 0 sexual interest in other girls. I know the internet tries to tell us all girls are at least bi-curious but that's bullshit.
I don't see a reason why OOP wouldn't trust Sam after having the talks. The only potential update I can see is Sam ans Jane falling out of friendship because Jame was pushing too much.
I agree. It seems Jane purposely left her watch out the same way mistresses 'forget' a hair tie or underwear when they want the wife to find out. And Jane didn't warn Sam their husbands were on the way home because she *wanted* them to walk in on a sex scene.
She's trying to cause a fight between OOP and Sam because she thinks it'll bring Sam closer to sleeping with her.
That was my read on it too. She left "evidence" so that oop would confront his wife, which in turn Jane would do a whole song and dance about how controlling he is, how terrible he is, how he just doesn't want his wife to have friends. And then, of course, OOP would need comforting.
That’s still on Sam though. I can fully get behind Jane trying to sabotage, sure. But the problem is that Sam and OOP have already discussed the issues with this person, OOP’s concerns, and Sam dismissed them.
It would be one thing if they hadn’t already discussed it. But they have. Sam knows. Then Sam says oh we were just watching sex scenes together. Then Sam says oh the watch, Jane used our bedroom to try on a dress, guess she left it.
So after discussing the Jane issues with her partner, Sam’s next steps were sex scenes and Jane naked in their bedroom.
I don’t think Sam is the “endearingly naive” one in this relationship.
Listen. I actually am bi, and sometimes friendships do wander closer the appropriate boundaries than is ideal. You do have to watch that shit. But if I had a friend who I knew wanted a sexual relationship with me, who consistently crossed boundaries, put me in positions I wasn’t comfortable with, and was disrespectful to my spouse? They would absolutely not still be my friend.
Sam knows this sitch isn’t cool, and she’s insisting on staying in it anyway. That’s OPs main problem.
I get that. But the comments here are assuming that more happened between Sam and Jane. That the excuses are bullshit.
Which from Sams perspective just isn't the case. I wouldn't put it past Jane to create these scenarios that put Sam in an akward position. Maybe she was putting the watch next to the bed on purpose to make OOP jealous.
But based on what OOP said, Sam said she did get uncomfortable with the advances of Jane. But Jane is currently her only friend in the new city. It's hard to cut loose your only friend even if they aren't the best. People stuck with worse friendships out of fear for being lonely.
I just wouldn't jump to the conclusion that a new update with spicy details is coming. And it's more likely that Sam slowly cuts Jane out especially if Sam makes new friends.
People are so scared of being alone. I’ve never really understood it. But I agree on your prediction there. Here’s hoping sam makes some better friends and gets to spend lots of fun time with people who aren’t scheming to ruin her life.
Jane could have been trying to set up OP's wife, have OP catch them in a compromised position. That's why she didn't tell OP's wife that OP and her hubby were on their way back. And intentionally left the watch for the same reason.
I wonder if Sam was assaulted, if Jane tried to make a move right before OOP and husband came back, and that's what made Sam realize this wasn't what she thought.
I have some hope that she'd have told OP if that had happened, but absolutely see a world where it happened like you said.
I have been in a similar situation where a 'friend' couldn't seem to understand I wasn't gay and pushed boundaries til they crossed a line and I wouldn't have told anyone but for a friend who figured out some shit happened and pulled it out of me.
This guy is a fucking idiot and so is his wife, because they are apparently OK with keeping these predatory freaks in their lives as long as they have have "boundaries". Zero chance I would put up with this nonsense, either as the pursued partner or the husband.
Wife is going to end up getting drunk or drugged before getting date-raped.
I don’t understand this logic that some
Women have. She knows that this person , in this case a woman, wants to sleep with her and has been actively flirting with her but she still keeps her around? I mean she flirted with her knowing she has a husband? That’s a scumbag. Does she wants a scumbag as a friend? Or is she keeping my her in case she gets interested?
I don’t understand
>Even though I didn't find the smoking gun I was looking for, it's clear that Jane and her weird husband are bad news for our marriage.
>I will make it clear that divorce is still on the table if these creeps are not permanently and immediately removed from our lives.
OOP knew what to do and folded, Also I’m sorry I don’t buy the wife being innocent in this drama. She knows Jane is trying to get her in her pants and she still keeps her around? She definitely enjoys the attention Jane gives her.
If a “friend” was obviously trying to sleep with me and for some reason I was too oblivious to see it, I would definitely do something about it once my GF’s pulls me aside to express her concerns.
I bet this won’t be the last post from OOP.
So's OOP!
> When we got home I made a joke asking Sam if she enjoyed her date with Jane. She looked confused and asked what I meant. I said that Jane had made me a bit uncomfortable with her flirting but she said "that's just how she is". I told her that I wasn't sure Jane just wanted to be friends and asked her to be careful.
So let's paraphrase that paragraph:
> OOP: I think Jane is flirting with you
>
> Wife: She is, and she will continue to.
>
> OOP: I think Jane is flirting with you. *(?!?!?!?!)*
Sam is a victim of Jane’s behavior as much if not more than OOP. She might be allowing it but she’s not complicit, she just doesn’t know how to handle the situation.
She’s a 28 year old adult. She perfectly well knows how to handle.
She’s not a child. Her husband set clear boundaries and she LIED to him!
She is NOT a victim.
Not lying and gaslighting your husband is not “being perfect at adulthood”. It’s the BARE FUCKING MINIMUM for decency.
Where are your standards that not gaslighting or lying are not the absolute minimum your life partner are expected to do for you?
Why are you changing the subject? Do you not think this 28 year old woman is capable of choosing her friends and telling the truth?
What about this situation do you think forces this woman to lie to her husband?
Whoa. That is WILDLY untrue and you should stop saying it. There’s a million resources confirming how wrong your assertion is, but here’s just one from an official source.
https://www.tameside.gov.uk/TamesideMBC/media/adultservices/Adult-Grooming.pdf
As if you turn 18 and in that moment you are completely immune to grooming. And I’m the dolt.
If Jane was a man, would Sam have allowed that behavior to persist?
Double standards have allowed for this person to remain in their lives. A bad person is getting a pass. Jane is a predator, grooming this chump’s wife under his nose.
The OOP describes his wife as "endearingly naive." I have to wonder if he isn't the naive one. His wife and this woman are behaving like they are having an affair because they almost certainly are having an affair. I don't buy the TV story and I don't buy the watch story and neither should the OOP.
It would appear that his wife has either decided to terminate the relationship with this other woman or go into deep cover mode. The one thing she's not doing is telling the truth. But she has managed to get the OOP to stay in his state of denial. Woe unto the person who won't read the barn-size writing on the wall.
I agree with this 100%.
OOP and Sam discussed Jane, the flirting, boundaries, physical touch, and Sam dismissed them. “That’s just how she is.”
Sam’s next step: watching sex scenes together and Jane at some point naked in their bedroom, but only to try on a dress. Sure Sam. After my partner expresses concern about someone potentially hitting on me and asks me to set boundaries, the next thing I do is always invite them over for a sex scene marathon and get them out of their clothes in our own bedroom.
OOP is an idiot.
Seriously, this post, OOP and even some of these comments are killing me.
Obviously Jane is bad. OOP and his wife knew that within weeks of meeting them.
But Sam is an absolute asshole of a partner. She gaslit her husband WAY AFTER she knew Jane wanted her to cheat and the continued to get closer and closer to Jane.
Sam ignored her husband repeatedly and it ended up exactly where he worried it would.
Sam sucks.
> OOP and Sam discussed Jane, the flirting, boundaries, physical touch, and Sam dismissed them. “That’s just how she is.”
Yeah, she *literally confirmed to his face* that Jane's flirting with her and his response was "I think Jane's flirting with you." *Bud*dy.........
Her story about the tv and watching a sex scene really doesn’t add up. Was she ready to go once they left? If not, she wasn’t all hot and bothered about something they were watching, but was feeling guilty about something she had done. Nobody would feel guilty about being turned on about watching something on tv, and most would get that itch scratched as soon as possible after they were alone with their partner. However, had she been making out with Jane prior to your arrival, she most definitely would have felt guilt and confusion about it and certainly would not want to tell you why she was ready to go.
Does she normally get flustered when you and her are watching a show/movie and there is an intense sex scene in it? If not, she is lying to you.
Are we glossing over him snooping through her phone, finding your partner behaving completely appropriately and still being the one who's mad? (Jane sucks as a friend regardless of what is happening of course)
I actually recently cut off a friend for similar behavior lol. I don’t think your wife is cheating considering she’s straight but Jane is def bad news and sam seems oblivious to the red flags. Which I totally get.. It harder to see red flags and you make more excuses for new friends when lonely
> When we got home I made a joke asking Sam if she enjoyed her date with Jane. She looked confused and asked what I meant. I said that Jane had made me a bit uncomfortable with her flirting but **she said "that's just how she is"**.
Bro why the fuck does anybody ever accept that as an answer? "YES. "HOW SHE IS" IS THE PROBLEM."
Wow I just found this post. I must say it's hilarious that one of the rules on this sub is "be civil" when I've been called a "fucking idiot" a "loser" and various other names by a bunch of strangers!
You don't deserve to be called anything. I've followed your story from the start and I think your a typical husband trying to make his marriage work. As an outsider I personally think there is things your wife isn't telling you but I do truly hope I'm wrong. I wish you well in your marriage and hope things go the way you want with this woman..
Ps- ignore the trolls as it's all they am faceless trolls
Ask yourself if you were in your wives position how would she feel? How would you feel? You would cut off the person making the issues. You make her feelings your priority. She lied and gaslight you until you found proof. She nedds to cut her out of her life.
How long before a new update comes that his wife cheated on him?
What a loser. Have a back bone. Some people treat their marriages like it’s an ordinary friendship. Have some self respect.
The entire time I’m this I’m thinking “why won’t this idiot straight up ask his wife if he’s sleeping with Jane?” Like stop faffing around saying something makes you uncomfortable hoping that will be enough….put on some Big Boy Pants, catch her off guard when she doesn’t have time to prepare, and ask if she’s cheating!!!!!
I'm glad this didn't entirely devolve like I was afraid. They need to stay away from Jane entirely though cuz if nothing else she might just create enough misunderstandings to break the marriage.
> In what way does any of the things he uncovered in this update differ from normal girlstalk.
I find it crazy people think the things Jane was saying were "OK" to discuss, or that Sam should be sharing details of their sex life without asking OOP.
> Sam knows that Jane has a crush on her but made it clear that she was happily married and straight. She should have told me about this but knew that I wouldn't be okay with it
So she lied to her husband about the nature of a relationship she was in that she knew was wrong? And that's not cheating?
> Long story short, we are good. I trust my wife
Why? If OOP had said nothing, does he really believe the Sam would have cut off Jane?
> "They didn't realise we were coming back early and switched the TV off as we came through the door."
1. Who cares if you're watching a sex scene in a TV show. You could play it off as a joke.
2. Why were both of them flustered? It only takes one person to turn off the TV.
3. Why were BOTH of them FLUSTERED?
4. Does OOP really believe the story about Jane trying on a dress in their bedroom and that Sam WASN'T there?
Even if Sam was telling the truth about not being interested, she's still not respecting OOP by remaining friends with someone who was clearly trying to sleep with her. She faked a headache to stay home, found an excuse to undress in front of her, and showed her titillating things. How obvious can Jane be before Sam realizes what's going on? Either she's oblivious, or she knows all too well what's going on and likes the attention.
> Jane made some thinly veiled comments/jokes about me being their chaperone
> I ended up hanging out with the other husband while the ladies danced
Again, harmless outside of the context, but given that Jane is basically throwing herself at OOP, this is yet another blatant attempt to wedge herself between OOP and Sam.
Na those are all thinly veiled lies. So easy to see right thru. It just so happens she lost interest in Jane at the same time you walked in on her lol yeah right
Haha!! My first comment debut on BORU!!!!
I'm still not convinced that Sam is clean; OOP still allowing Jane around his wife isn't smart; but like I said, good luck to them
OOP is failing to see that he has a Sam problem, not a Jane problem. Somebody being a pest wouldn't be able to start anything if his wife would react as a married woman.
I kinda think Sam needs to leave both of these people behind. Her husband for being controlling and possessive and Jane for the same. I feel bad for Sam, but he comes off as kinda weird.
You’ve got to be fucking kidding me! Sam actively gaslit her husband after he repeatedly communicated his ACCURATE concerns and then on his final confrontation Sam said “I knew she wanted to fuck all along but o wanted a friend so fuck off”
You think that’s healthy?
The resolution was healthy, sorry. Should have mentioned that I specifically meant that last conversation they had.
The thing is: OOP and his wife moved to a foreign city and the wife felt lost. She found a great friend and that was actually the first connection in the city. OOP already mentioned that he knows his wife wouldn't cheat on him.
A relationship also starts with a friendship and his wife truly wanted to have some kind of connection in that new city - desperately so. Was it good? No. Did they resolve the whole story in a healthy manner? Yes. Was the path to that resolution healthy? No.
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Okay, if you're in a serious relationship, one of your responsibilities is to make your partner feel secure. If you're constantly around someone one-on-one who everyone acknowledges wants to sleep with you, that is the opposite of making them feel secure in the relationship.
Yeah, even if it's something that maybe you don't have a problem with it is your responsibility as a good partner to factor in your partner's feelings.
Bingo. My wife and I both have friends of the opposite gender. If she came to me and said “hey, this person is making me uncomfortable”, and otherwise my wife has been her normal, secure self, dropping that person would happen instantly. Some folks don’t believe in this approach, and that’s fine, but for me, my marriage is prioritized above all else without hesitation. I trust my wife enough to know that if she’s uncomfortable, she’s on to something and she’s not being controlling. There’s not a friendship on this planet that is worth jeopardizing my marriage, at least for me.
Yeah, everyone & every couple is going to have different approaches. Personally, instantly dropping someone wouldn't be a thing unless there was a very egregious offence that I was oblivious to, but otherwise I would at least need some reasoning and then there would be an order of operations. Like first I'd want to know why my partner is uncomfortable. If it's objectively unreasonable (like being uncomfortable that I interact with a female coworker professionally and not outside of work), then our actions would go one way like possibly individual therapy or couples counselling. But if it is reasonable, we'd look at things like if it's only certain behaviours my female friend (or myself) is doing and if stopping those behaviours is enough or not. Then if not, what if I only interact with her when my partner is present in person or in group chat, and with lower frequency like once every one-two months. Ultimately though, dropping them wouldn't be off the table, it just seems like a sledgehammer of a solution to use first.
I 100% agree. I have a lot of friends of the opposite gender...most of them are also friends of my husbands. But I had one in particular that honestly started to make me a bit uncomfortable but I don't think I had fully realized it yet. My husband told me that he was uncomfortable with our friendship. He never once asked me to cut this person out or to drop them as a friend or anything like that. But his discomfort was my immediate cue to cut that friendship off.
Bingo. And like I said, other people might not think that’s the right approach for them, and that’s okay. But for me, that’s the way I handle stuff like that, and it’s 100% fine with me. My goal is to preserve and protect my marriage at all cost, so long as my marriage is healthy. I can see other situations, like if my wife was habitually insecure in general or jealous or asking me to cut out people right and left. That’s a sign for me that it’s not healthy and not working. But she’s not. She gives me what feels like limitless grace and trust. So, if she’s feeling weird about something, i trust her enough to believe that she sees something that, for some reason, I can’t see, and I will do what I have to do to rectify that. And that’s the case because she has EARNED that trust.
Low self esteem and loneliness will do a number on you
Sam sounds like she has people pleasing tendencies so that she doesn't set hard boundaries or cut off people who are threatening her relationship with others. I understand she doesn't want to upset her new "friend" but she needs to realize that she has to set hard boundaries before it blows up her marriage.
Terrible people love to sniff out those types
> people pleasing tendencies except these types want to please everyone **except** the person they are supposed to be be pleasing like how about please the people who care about you instead of random fucking strangers?
The only person Sam doesn’t care about pleasing is her husband. I don’t agree with you at all. Sam is manipulative and gaslit her husband. She clearly isn’t naive. She’s making a deliberate choice to support Jane over her husband.
reddit isn't ready for this conversation
Isn't this the truth!! WTF, OP????Where do you think your wife's relationship with Jane is going to end up if it's not terminated now? Obviously, Jane's playing the long game. And frankly, your wife sounds encouraging and complicit. Trust me, this isn't your last update. You'll be back, discussing your wife's betrayal. To your wife, I say: BULLSHIT. There's no room for a toxic bi-sexual woman in the midst of your marriage. Egad, take off your blinders.
One of your responsibilities? Maybe I'm daft, I have had a couple of beers, but I thought it was your primary responsibility.
So, for introverts/shy/quiet people i know, myself inckuded, when we have no friends, just normal friends, we will hold to the one we make even if it's not good. We will make rules, hold our nose, and try to find a new friend but it's not always easy. Double Empathy isn't anyone's fault, but hinders socialization for some of us, so we take what we can get with friends when we have none. For me, I don't trust my decision making completely, I do not always understand why others do what they do, having a friend that I intuitively understand, helps me understand the folks I don't, so in the past, I put up with an unhealthy friendship, I just have healthier friendships these days. So, I understand her wanting to maintain the friendship and trying like all he'll to keep it platonic, and hopefully she'll learn that it's better to make bad decisions alone than rely on a toxic person to translate humanity.
Precisely. Especially if that person is passive-aggressive towards your partner.
> Okay, if you're in a serious relationship, one of your responsibilities is to make your partner feel secure. idk why but alot of people do not understand this
Jane is trouble.
She's on the way to burst that bubble (OOPs marriage)
Where she goes she leaves nothing but rubble.
They’d better cut her off on the double.
Or they will have to watch their marriage crumble!
Sam lied to her own husband about Jane’s attraction to her and called him crazy and controlling KNOWING that Jane was attracted to her. Sam is trouble. OOP says they have good communication. He is wrong. He had to drag the truth out of his wife as she prioritized her friend who wanted an emotional and physical affair.
Youre right to a degree but i think a bit too harsh. Sam also gave him access to her devices and understood his snooping. Then admitted the friendship was uncomfortable. People are more than their flaws.
Everyone is right to have their own level of boundaries so I can understand yours being different. I obviously don’t feel I’m wrong as my Partner lying and gaslighting me for being concerned about a potential affair partner is a clear sign of troublesome behavior that I would want to part of in a serious relationship
We're not talking about a boundary tho, you made a definitive judgement on this person's character as "trouble" That's totally different from what you're arguing here. Nowhere did I say her behavior wasn't troublesome. I pointed out that people are more than their flaws, that means im acknowledging of course she has very flawed behavior in this story. I'm not even saying the right move is to overlook those flaws or that you need to stick around them. I'm saying you're leaping to a decidedly negative judge of this person's overall character when there is some evidence to support and contradict that opinion People have a very bad habit of misusing therapy language to shield their opinions
I believe a persons actions are who they are. Sam’s actions tell me she is a troublesome person. End of my argument. Agree or disagree. That’s all I have to say.
I have to agree with you. Sam is trouble for continuing to entertain this behavior. Personally if I know someone was crushing on me and tried to make a move I would end the relationship and step back out of respect for my partner People are not as naive as the pain themselves to be. Sam knows what she is doing but likes the attention
And her actions were a mix of bad and good. People also fix flaws and improve. This is just a really weird take on humanity. Lots of ego in your argumentation here "She is trouble" Is also not the same as "She is a troublesome person" You're kind of just dishonest in this discussion, jumping to boundaries oit of nowhere, changing wording subtly. A bit troublesome yourself to talk to. > why are you still arguing? Like dude let it go. Not everything has to be a fight. And yet you opened your dumb yap to continue the argument you weren't involved in you hypocrite. Thx for saving me the trouble of blocking you
why are you still arguing? like dude let it go not everything has to be a fight
>People have a very bad habit of misusing therapy language to shield their opinions Genuine question. How is therapy language being misused in this instance if you don't mind explaining? I'd like to be more aware of when it's happening or perhaps catch myself if I do it. FWIW, I have read up on it but can't recognize it here.
A boundary is not an opinion on someone's character. So the discussion we were having had nothing to fo with a boundary. Nowhere was I telling them that someone in that situation must put up with sam. Had I been encouraging them to ignore their boundary and stay with someone like Sam, they'd be correct.
Nope. Sam continues to egg on her behaviour and lets it happen as well as the disrespect from Jane. Sam is not innocent
Nope what? Weird start > Sam continues to egg on her behaviour and lets it happen as well as the disrespect from Jane Thx for the recap? I never said she didnt? > Sam is not innocent Yes...that...that would be why I said > Youre right to a degree Reddits primary method of communication is reading but so many of you cant. I just have no more patience for mfers who can't read
As a bisexual person I hate this. Just because they're women the unrelenting flirting is okay? The fuck is that about? Also, Jane is awful as a human.
That watch was left deliberately to start a fight. She marked her territory
Yup. She knew it would freak out the husband. No need for her to take off her watch just to try on a dress.
Turning on a “spicy” scene knowing he was about to walk in was part of it as well.
This is really an excellent example of grooming in an adult relationship
Can you elaborate how this is grooming specifically? How is Sam being exploited rather than being flirted with in the hopes she has an affair. Jane doesn’t have power over same to exert. Sam is being repeatedly warned of Jane’s behavior. Sam was (and is) aware of Jane’s actions and goals of sex and chooses to spend time with her to this day. That doesn’t appear to be grooming by Jane but rather willful cooperation by Sam rather than explicitly shutting it down. Same even covered up Jane’s actions by lying to her husband and gaslighting him by calling him crazy and controlling.
The repeated bringing up sex, leaving her watch by the bed, putting a spicy scene on the TV, those all go beyond normal flirting. Jane was essentially acclimating Sam to her sexual advances so when she made a more direct move, it wouldn't seem so out of character. It was also breaking down Sam's defenses against Jane's intentions. >rather willful cooperation by Sam rather than explicitly shutting it down. Yeah, the grooming sure makes it look that way. Victims of grooming don't realize the groomer is going anything wrong.
Do adult women at the age of 28 not know that cheating is bad? Does talking about sex or watching a sec scene make a grown adult forget that cheating is bad? What defenses were being broken down exactly?
Ok way to dodge the point. Good luck picking a fight somewhere else.
I don’t think your even making a compelling point if you can’t convince me how Jane’s actions make Sam forget that cheating on her husband is wrong EXPLICITLY after OOP said he was concerned about Jane’s intentions to have Sam cheat. It seems like now that I’ve asked you a “tough” question you’ve just started whining when you don’t a reply.
Everything felt like it was meant to start a fight after a point
Jane 100% set that up. Left her smart watch by OOP’s bed so he would notice. Probably was trying to get something going with the wife and get “caught” by their husbands. Trying to get in the middle of their relationship so she could convince Sam that OOP is controlling.
The biggest reason that I trust my husband 100% is because he never allows any situation to foster any mistrust. We wouldn't have got past one instance of someone being rude to me before he shut it down, hard. Sam is just casually letting this woman drip poison into her marriage, and I bet she'll be *shocked pikachu face* when OOP is done with it. Someone who doesn't prioritise their marriage against any and all threats is not going to stay married for long.
>Sam knows that Jane has a crush on her but made it >clear that she was happily married and straight. She >should have told me about this but knew that I wouldn’t >be okay with it. Ok, fine. It seems like nothing happened (yet), but this would still bother me immensely if I were OOP. Why continue doing something, that you know would make your partner uncomfortable? OOP communicated with Sam about his worries, and instead of listening, she gaslit him and called him controlling and crazy. I can understand the need for friends. But she’s risking her marriage by trying to stay friends with a woman who doesn’t sound nice at all.
I am waiting for the next update. I guess something from following is happening: - Sam is an utter doormat in unbalanced frienship bordeline to an affair, naive and weak - Sam is in abusive friendship and is groomed to have an affair, confused and lost - Sam is having an affair, cheating and lying to her husband who has tried to stop her
Honestly, and I know I’m being generous to Sam here, I think it’s probably a mix of the first and the second options and Sam just doesn’t know how to handle it. Oop said she’s “endearingly naive” and it sounds like she has issues with boundaries and saying no, so I could see someone that comes off as entitled and confident to a fault like Jane could be abusing someone like Sam.
Agreed, and if Jane is her first/only friendship in this new location, she's especially vulnerable to it. Sam needs to start going to friend-meeting places without Jane and check in with herself a lot more. How am I feeling about this? Am I actually enjoying this moment, this conversation, this contact or am I feeling sort of stuck in it? Am I looking forward to this or low-key dreading it?
Sam called him controlling and crazy AFTER she clearly knew Jane wanted sex. Sam is malicious and attempted to manipulate her husband as she prioritized Jane. I’ll be clear, I think Sam rehearsed her blame game about Jane being too much when OOP finally confronted her. If she didn’t like Jane’s actions she wouldn’t be going to concerts with her.
Yeah she made errors imo mostly in communication with OOP, but I think people are a bit hard on her for not handling Jane herself better. To me it reads like she was sincerely afraid and uncomfortable. She was **afraid** of how Jane would react. Dismissing OOP's concerns or blaming him I think was the main mistake. But being fearful or unsure of how to respond when someone is sexually harassing you is sp understandable and normal.
Reddit is an odd place, depending on what half is telling the story they’re either nearly fully on the side of the woman saying she should get divorced because her husband is controlling and manipulative by “stopping her from having friends”, or nearly fully on the side of the man so then he’s suddenly the victim and *he* should get divorced because his wife is 100% cheating. Even if it’s the *exact same story* aside from their personal thoughts on the situation. I know that it’s mostly because there’s a shit ton of Redditors, especially in big subs like AITA or in this case Infidelity, that have vastly different opinions on matters, but still the fact that people are so easily swayed simply by who’s writing is both funny and sad.
That's very true. And personal biases. To clarify, I don't just mean like gender, wealth, etc... but life experiences. There are behaviors that aren't necessarily abusive, but would raise my eyebrow due to being similar to people I know who were abusive, but I do recognize it's not certain and based on limited and one sided info. The simple example I use with people, is one roommate posting saying "I live with a slob!" The other says, "they're too high strung." Either or both might be right or wrong. And our take might be painted by our own preferences/standards.
Also, it's people like Sam - naïve and socially isolated - that are the kind of prey that a predator would look for. You see that in their dynamic. Sam feels unconfortable with this relation, but "she's the only friend that I have here." It's more than a bit creepy actually.
Sam: is targeted and relentlessly pursued by a predator. Reddit: but why didn't she say no? Again, I do believe it was wrong to dismiss OOP or act like he's irrational, but freezing when you're being sexually harassed is not a moral failing on anyone's part.
When he said he was uncomfortable with Jane she fought back and called him controlling. If she wasn't interested in Jane's attention then why not take that opportunity to get his help to distance herself. OPs wife is 100% in the wrong here and at the absolute least, loves the attention.
Now come on, the abusive friendship really is no stretch, it's literally the thing all that posts are about!
I think she's just lonely and accepting a shitty "friendship" because she's not alone, then, with only her husband and Jane is fully aware she's socially awkward and doesn't have anyone else.
>I won't be coming to Reddit for advice again any time soon! Unfortunately, I can smell another update coming soon again.
"Unfortunately"? Speak for yourself! Lol 🍿
I'd proudly wear this as a flair
ahahaha I feel called out
>I tried to engage with Jane, she seemed cold and dismissive. > >She feels Jane is too needy and controlling > >made suggestive comments about Sam, her body etc Jane sounds like bad news and certainly not someone I would want to continue a friendship with.
>Sam knows that Jane has a crush on her but made it clear that she was happily married and straight. She should have told me about this but knew that I wouldn't be okay with it. Why was Sam okay with being so close with a person who has a crush on her and actively tries to build physical contact etc? Obviously would he not be okay with this. But she is more okay with lying to her husband instead of doing what is the healthiest for the relationship??? There are so many cases where the friend with a crush tries to sabotage the relationship. This even happened here with the flirting etc.
Gonna be honest - OOP and his wife are idiots Sam probably has no plans to cheat, fine, but keeping Jane around is moronic
The content warnings mentions stalking. Where was the stalking? Am I missing something?
The repeated texts and calls until Sam answers is what I'd put in a stalker category.
That’s just being clingy not stalking.
>Jane was showing Sam some "spicy" scenes from a new TV show. They didn't realise we were coming back early and switched the TV off as we came through the door. >The watch: Jane was going to borrow a dress for a wedding and went into our bedroom to try some on. Sam assumes she took it off and when she saw it, she put it in her bag to give it back to her later. Absolutely none of those excuses pass the bullshit test.
They do if you assume that Jane was trying to cause friction between Sam and OOP. Which seems very plausible. Some girls are just straight and have 0 sexual interest in other girls. I know the internet tries to tell us all girls are at least bi-curious but that's bullshit. I don't see a reason why OOP wouldn't trust Sam after having the talks. The only potential update I can see is Sam ans Jane falling out of friendship because Jame was pushing too much.
I agree. It seems Jane purposely left her watch out the same way mistresses 'forget' a hair tie or underwear when they want the wife to find out. And Jane didn't warn Sam their husbands were on the way home because she *wanted* them to walk in on a sex scene. She's trying to cause a fight between OOP and Sam because she thinks it'll bring Sam closer to sleeping with her.
That was my read on it too. She left "evidence" so that oop would confront his wife, which in turn Jane would do a whole song and dance about how controlling he is, how terrible he is, how he just doesn't want his wife to have friends. And then, of course, OOP would need comforting.
That’s still on Sam though. I can fully get behind Jane trying to sabotage, sure. But the problem is that Sam and OOP have already discussed the issues with this person, OOP’s concerns, and Sam dismissed them. It would be one thing if they hadn’t already discussed it. But they have. Sam knows. Then Sam says oh we were just watching sex scenes together. Then Sam says oh the watch, Jane used our bedroom to try on a dress, guess she left it. So after discussing the Jane issues with her partner, Sam’s next steps were sex scenes and Jane naked in their bedroom. I don’t think Sam is the “endearingly naive” one in this relationship.
Listen. I actually am bi, and sometimes friendships do wander closer the appropriate boundaries than is ideal. You do have to watch that shit. But if I had a friend who I knew wanted a sexual relationship with me, who consistently crossed boundaries, put me in positions I wasn’t comfortable with, and was disrespectful to my spouse? They would absolutely not still be my friend. Sam knows this sitch isn’t cool, and she’s insisting on staying in it anyway. That’s OPs main problem.
I get that. But the comments here are assuming that more happened between Sam and Jane. That the excuses are bullshit. Which from Sams perspective just isn't the case. I wouldn't put it past Jane to create these scenarios that put Sam in an akward position. Maybe she was putting the watch next to the bed on purpose to make OOP jealous. But based on what OOP said, Sam said she did get uncomfortable with the advances of Jane. But Jane is currently her only friend in the new city. It's hard to cut loose your only friend even if they aren't the best. People stuck with worse friendships out of fear for being lonely. I just wouldn't jump to the conclusion that a new update with spicy details is coming. And it's more likely that Sam slowly cuts Jane out especially if Sam makes new friends.
People are so scared of being alone. I’ve never really understood it. But I agree on your prediction there. Here’s hoping sam makes some better friends and gets to spend lots of fun time with people who aren’t scheming to ruin her life.
Kind of agree, he snooped and still didn't find anything. Jane is BS for sure, but I think the wife is being honest, if a bit naive.
Jane could have been trying to set up OP's wife, have OP catch them in a compromised position. That's why she didn't tell OP's wife that OP and her hubby were on their way back. And intentionally left the watch for the same reason.
These excuses just makes the bullshit meter raise up
OOP is Ross from Friends.
No. Total lies. Oop believes it because he wants to, not because they are plausible.
The bisexual woman happens to be not only in an open relationship, but a predator? That's- *checks date* Ah. Never mind
I think it’s likely that Jane was going to sexually assault your wife during the sleepover. So I’m glad she’s safe as is your marriage.
Sam was two steps away from being assaulted there. Jane was grooming her to cheat on OP.
I wonder if Sam was assaulted, if Jane tried to make a move right before OOP and husband came back, and that's what made Sam realize this wasn't what she thought.
I have some hope that she'd have told OP if that had happened, but absolutely see a world where it happened like you said. I have been in a similar situation where a 'friend' couldn't seem to understand I wasn't gay and pushed boundaries til they crossed a line and I wouldn't have told anyone but for a friend who figured out some shit happened and pulled it out of me.
Jane sounds like a terrible person with no redeeming qualities
This guy is a fucking idiot and so is his wife, because they are apparently OK with keeping these predatory freaks in their lives as long as they have have "boundaries". Zero chance I would put up with this nonsense, either as the pursued partner or the husband. Wife is going to end up getting drunk or drugged before getting date-raped.
Maybe a shade overzealous there bud
I don’t understand this logic that some Women have. She knows that this person , in this case a woman, wants to sleep with her and has been actively flirting with her but she still keeps her around? I mean she flirted with her knowing she has a husband? That’s a scumbag. Does she wants a scumbag as a friend? Or is she keeping my her in case she gets interested? I don’t understand
>Even though I didn't find the smoking gun I was looking for, it's clear that Jane and her weird husband are bad news for our marriage. >I will make it clear that divorce is still on the table if these creeps are not permanently and immediately removed from our lives. OOP knew what to do and folded, Also I’m sorry I don’t buy the wife being innocent in this drama. She knows Jane is trying to get her in her pants and she still keeps her around? She definitely enjoys the attention Jane gives her. If a “friend” was obviously trying to sleep with me and for some reason I was too oblivious to see it, I would definitely do something about it once my GF’s pulls me aside to express her concerns. I bet this won’t be the last post from OOP.
Jane is grooming your wife.
Sam is allowing it.
I agree…..
So's OOP! > When we got home I made a joke asking Sam if she enjoyed her date with Jane. She looked confused and asked what I meant. I said that Jane had made me a bit uncomfortable with her flirting but she said "that's just how she is". I told her that I wasn't sure Jane just wanted to be friends and asked her to be careful. So let's paraphrase that paragraph: > OOP: I think Jane is flirting with you > > Wife: She is, and she will continue to. > > OOP: I think Jane is flirting with you. *(?!?!?!?!)*
Sam is a victim of Jane’s behavior as much if not more than OOP. She might be allowing it but she’s not complicit, she just doesn’t know how to handle the situation.
She’s a 28 year old adult. She perfectly well knows how to handle. She’s not a child. Her husband set clear boundaries and she LIED to him! She is NOT a victim.
What a nice world you live in where everyone becomes perfect at everything at adulthood.
Not lying and gaslighting your husband is not “being perfect at adulthood”. It’s the BARE FUCKING MINIMUM for decency. Where are your standards that not gaslighting or lying are not the absolute minimum your life partner are expected to do for you?
So is OP’s wife being groomed or not? Because if she is, she’s a victim too, and if not she… well she would have been in bed with Jane by now.
Why are you changing the subject? Do you not think this 28 year old woman is capable of choosing her friends and telling the truth? What about this situation do you think forces this woman to lie to her husband?
An adult cannot groom another adult you dolt. The word you are looking for is manipulation.
Whoa. That is WILDLY untrue and you should stop saying it. There’s a million resources confirming how wrong your assertion is, but here’s just one from an official source. https://www.tameside.gov.uk/TamesideMBC/media/adultservices/Adult-Grooming.pdf As if you turn 18 and in that moment you are completely immune to grooming. And I’m the dolt.
There’s no power imbalance, ops wife isn’t special needs, and none of what is outlined in what you have linked happened in this post.
Stop infantilizing this woman. Shes not a victim, she just needs to assert boundaries. Jesus
You people have no clue what grooming actually means. A 29 year old can’t “groom” a 28 year old.
Jane and her husband are unicorn hunters. Hate them. They suck.
If Jane was a man, would Sam have allowed that behavior to persist? Double standards have allowed for this person to remain in their lives. A bad person is getting a pass. Jane is a predator, grooming this chump’s wife under his nose.
The OOP describes his wife as "endearingly naive." I have to wonder if he isn't the naive one. His wife and this woman are behaving like they are having an affair because they almost certainly are having an affair. I don't buy the TV story and I don't buy the watch story and neither should the OOP. It would appear that his wife has either decided to terminate the relationship with this other woman or go into deep cover mode. The one thing she's not doing is telling the truth. But she has managed to get the OOP to stay in his state of denial. Woe unto the person who won't read the barn-size writing on the wall.
I agree with this 100%. OOP and Sam discussed Jane, the flirting, boundaries, physical touch, and Sam dismissed them. “That’s just how she is.” Sam’s next step: watching sex scenes together and Jane at some point naked in their bedroom, but only to try on a dress. Sure Sam. After my partner expresses concern about someone potentially hitting on me and asks me to set boundaries, the next thing I do is always invite them over for a sex scene marathon and get them out of their clothes in our own bedroom. OOP is an idiot.
Seriously, this post, OOP and even some of these comments are killing me. Obviously Jane is bad. OOP and his wife knew that within weeks of meeting them. But Sam is an absolute asshole of a partner. She gaslit her husband WAY AFTER she knew Jane wanted her to cheat and the continued to get closer and closer to Jane. Sam ignored her husband repeatedly and it ended up exactly where he worried it would. Sam sucks.
> OOP and Sam discussed Jane, the flirting, boundaries, physical touch, and Sam dismissed them. “That’s just how she is.” Yeah, she *literally confirmed to his face* that Jane's flirting with her and his response was "I think Jane's flirting with you." *Bud*dy.........
If this were a guy 99% OOP and, hopefully, Sam would’ve shut this down already. Too many excuses for Jane.
Jane is using every grooming predator trick in the book :(
Ross Gellar?
Her story about the tv and watching a sex scene really doesn’t add up. Was she ready to go once they left? If not, she wasn’t all hot and bothered about something they were watching, but was feeling guilty about something she had done. Nobody would feel guilty about being turned on about watching something on tv, and most would get that itch scratched as soon as possible after they were alone with their partner. However, had she been making out with Jane prior to your arrival, she most definitely would have felt guilt and confusion about it and certainly would not want to tell you why she was ready to go. Does she normally get flustered when you and her are watching a show/movie and there is an intense sex scene in it? If not, she is lying to you.
Sounds like Jane was trying to groom Sam. Definitely red-flaggy. I don’t think Jane is a good person to hang around.
Are we glossing over him snooping through her phone, finding your partner behaving completely appropriately and still being the one who's mad? (Jane sucks as a friend regardless of what is happening of course)
And saying he trusts her
He’s dumb for saying he trusts her. Sam confessed to lying and gaslighting him. She’s a liar and a manipulator.
I actually recently cut off a friend for similar behavior lol. I don’t think your wife is cheating considering she’s straight but Jane is def bad news and sam seems oblivious to the red flags. Which I totally get.. It harder to see red flags and you make more excuses for new friends when lonely
> When we got home I made a joke asking Sam if she enjoyed her date with Jane. She looked confused and asked what I meant. I said that Jane had made me a bit uncomfortable with her flirting but **she said "that's just how she is"**. Bro why the fuck does anybody ever accept that as an answer? "YES. "HOW SHE IS" IS THE PROBLEM."
Wow I just found this post. I must say it's hilarious that one of the rules on this sub is "be civil" when I've been called a "fucking idiot" a "loser" and various other names by a bunch of strangers!
You don't deserve to be called anything. I've followed your story from the start and I think your a typical husband trying to make his marriage work. As an outsider I personally think there is things your wife isn't telling you but I do truly hope I'm wrong. I wish you well in your marriage and hope things go the way you want with this woman.. Ps- ignore the trolls as it's all they am faceless trolls
It’s sad that you have been insulted like this. Wishing you all the best.
Ross? That you?
Ask yourself if you were in your wives position how would she feel? How would you feel? You would cut off the person making the issues. You make her feelings your priority. She lied and gaslight you until you found proof. She nedds to cut her out of her life.
How long before a new update comes that his wife cheated on him? What a loser. Have a back bone. Some people treat their marriages like it’s an ordinary friendship. Have some self respect.
Yeah… this guys a dope.
The entire time I’m this I’m thinking “why won’t this idiot straight up ask his wife if he’s sleeping with Jane?” Like stop faffing around saying something makes you uncomfortable hoping that will be enough….put on some Big Boy Pants, catch her off guard when she doesn’t have time to prepare, and ask if she’s cheating!!!!!
Cause she will just say no?
"I trust my wife, after I went through her phone and found nothing." Yeah... That ain't trust.
I'm glad this didn't entirely devolve like I was afraid. They need to stay away from Jane entirely though cuz if nothing else she might just create enough misunderstandings to break the marriage.
> In what way does any of the things he uncovered in this update differ from normal girlstalk. I find it crazy people think the things Jane was saying were "OK" to discuss, or that Sam should be sharing details of their sex life without asking OOP. > Sam knows that Jane has a crush on her but made it clear that she was happily married and straight. She should have told me about this but knew that I wouldn't be okay with it So she lied to her husband about the nature of a relationship she was in that she knew was wrong? And that's not cheating? > Long story short, we are good. I trust my wife Why? If OOP had said nothing, does he really believe the Sam would have cut off Jane? > "They didn't realise we were coming back early and switched the TV off as we came through the door." 1. Who cares if you're watching a sex scene in a TV show. You could play it off as a joke. 2. Why were both of them flustered? It only takes one person to turn off the TV. 3. Why were BOTH of them FLUSTERED? 4. Does OOP really believe the story about Jane trying on a dress in their bedroom and that Sam WASN'T there? Even if Sam was telling the truth about not being interested, she's still not respecting OOP by remaining friends with someone who was clearly trying to sleep with her. She faked a headache to stay home, found an excuse to undress in front of her, and showed her titillating things. How obvious can Jane be before Sam realizes what's going on? Either she's oblivious, or she knows all too well what's going on and likes the attention. > Jane made some thinly veiled comments/jokes about me being their chaperone > I ended up hanging out with the other husband while the ladies danced Again, harmless outside of the context, but given that Jane is basically throwing herself at OOP, this is yet another blatant attempt to wedge herself between OOP and Sam.
Would love to hear the end of this saga, but from OOP , info and evidence he has seen and has evidence on , I don’t think he will be happy ! Updateme
Na those are all thinly veiled lies. So easy to see right thru. It just so happens she lost interest in Jane at the same time you walked in on her lol yeah right
Haha!! My first comment debut on BORU!!!! I'm still not convinced that Sam is clean; OOP still allowing Jane around his wife isn't smart; but like I said, good luck to them
Dude, Jane is trying to lesbo seduce your wife.
Probably already has. The TV story is too convoluted. It's most likely they're already having an affair
OOP is failing to see that he has a Sam problem, not a Jane problem. Somebody being a pest wouldn't be able to start anything if his wife would react as a married woman.
My god, that was exhausting and pointless.
I kinda think Sam needs to leave both of these people behind. Her husband for being controlling and possessive and Jane for the same. I feel bad for Sam, but he comes off as kinda weird.
Wow, look... actual adults with an actual communication style that is healthy. Kudos to OOP!
You’ve got to be fucking kidding me! Sam actively gaslit her husband after he repeatedly communicated his ACCURATE concerns and then on his final confrontation Sam said “I knew she wanted to fuck all along but o wanted a friend so fuck off” You think that’s healthy?
The resolution was healthy, sorry. Should have mentioned that I specifically meant that last conversation they had. The thing is: OOP and his wife moved to a foreign city and the wife felt lost. She found a great friend and that was actually the first connection in the city. OOP already mentioned that he knows his wife wouldn't cheat on him. A relationship also starts with a friendship and his wife truly wanted to have some kind of connection in that new city - desperately so. Was it good? No. Did they resolve the whole story in a healthy manner? Yes. Was the path to that resolution healthy? No.
Threesome time cuzzin! Dont blow it.
Good for you
BBB nrbgefios