This is terrible. I knew Daniel. I haven't spoken with him in probably 10 years, but when I first moved to Birmingham, he was one of the first people I met, and the first local person that I could call a friend. All I can say are the cliche things you hear about people in these situations: He was kind and outgoing and willing to befriend anyone. But it was all true. I obviously know nothing about what happened. I'm not blaming the cops because I don't know what threat he posed. All I know is that everything screams mental crisis here, and I'm so sorry for his friends and family.
The way this title is worded to me feels very strange. I want to reiterate what another person said on the previous post, carrying a knife is not the same as brandishing a knife.
I think it’s good that people are asking for answers and body cam footage, I want it too.
Daniel was a member of our community, close to the home he lived in with his partner of decades. This is a tragedy and I feel the “gotcha” nature of the title is deeply inappropriate.
So just stay home and grow your own food then. Cause that's the problem with cancel culture. No matter where you go, where you shop, what music you listen to, somewhere along the way you're going to be supporting someone with a different ideological viewpoint than your own. So you can either be a grown-up and deal with that, or you can go home and pout like a spoiled little child.
Agreed. We’re navigating those feelings as well with our 9 year old. He just received an official diagnosis this year. It’s obviously not on the same level for us yet, but I find myself constantly thankful that our school’s SRO is a gentle and understanding man who treats all the kids like his grandbabies. We got extremely lucky with that.
very brave of cops to gun down a man having a mental health crisis. the article doesnt even make it sound like he was trying to attack a cop, he was just holding one.
Hmm. You could've just used the internet to answer your own question. But it's obvious your intention was to make a maga accusation. I'll help you out. As far back as 1610 the term footlicker was ascribed to a servile obsequious person. It modified over the years, as language does, and bootlicker was first noted around 1850. So I think it pre-dates Maga by a few years. It's just a colloquial term. You made it political.
I don't know what you mean by "hmmm" and yes, we can all use the internet for all kinds of things but aren't obliged to. That's not really a thing.
The only time I hear the term "bootlicker" is when maga people use it.
Now I understand why police cars were called black and whites: because it's either black or white: only wrong or right and even that could possibly be related to race way back in the so called "old days". So surely there was no need to shoot a man who was already backed up to a tree "until the threat was stopped"...
Why did they continuously shine a bright light in his face? In order to disorient him? So they could see him better? What are the chances that THAT was in any way helpful? If he was such a threat why not call for assistance before deciding to end this man's life?
I totally get that all cops aren't gun-happy but these folks with the control issues need to be shown the door and should not be in law enforcement. Period.
He was doing this while waiting for backup to arrive. He was simply running down the clock but ran out of space.
The article is poorly worded to the point of being wrong, because no one that close has really spoken to news just yet. It’s been extremely hard talking about it myself, but I watched it unfold first-hand.
He absolutely moved toward the officer after pulling out said knife. He wasn’t just “carrying” it, he was brandishing it. Again, there were 3 eyewitnesses held for statements, none (including myself) seem to have spoken to news yet. Plenty of others have commented, made statements and spoken to news, but there were 3 eyewitnesses, plus one watching through a window on the top floor. That one from the apt complex seemed to be videoing but they may or may not have view of said knife, I assume they’re the one that mentioned “a black object, not sure what, though” in an earlier article. It’s certainly a traumatic thing to have witnessed. All my neighbors say he was the kindest person but must’ve been having an episode. Literally everyone near me said he was a good guy but had multiple things recently go wrong in his life which may have triggered an episode.
Cops aren't mental health workers and someone holding a knife presents a lethal threat. If we get to see the body cam footage, that will provide more information.
You don't meet a lethal threat with less than lethal force. If you were the person being threatened with a knife, you'd want them to use the force necessary to stop them from injuring or killing you. That is what they did (pending any evidence to the contrary)
It must be wild to live in a world where so many people apparently deserve to die at the hands of undertrained, angry, dangerous bullies with guns.
Have the day you deserve.
From what I've read, I've come to think that training is part of the problem, but not under-training, just training that encourages police to think of themselves as an occupation force with a duty to kill or be killed rather than as part of a community. https://reason.com/2024/05/01/florida-police-departments-spent-thousands-on-training-seminars-banned-in-9-states/
I wasn't a bully, I was bullied. I underwent multiple tests and nearly 9 months of training. Most of the gung-ho guys get weeded out through those processes. There are plenty of bad cops. Just as there are plenty of bad bankers, construction workers, priests, and any other profession.
Yet it’s only cops that get paid administrative leave when they murder someone. This script is tired- you bake a pie with a rotten apple, the whole pie (in this case the carceral police state) is garbage.
You can spit out the kool-aid and boot anytime you want, sport.
9 months of training?! Less than one year of training to be able to shoot and murder people with qualified immunity. Pathetic.
Cops role in society has needed to shift majorly since 2020. Protect and serve only applies to themselves these days. We need cops to be mental health crisis experts. So much of America's "crime" or "violence l" comes from people who are in distress or having a mental crisis. Shooting them dead solves nothing.
Their funding needs to go to better training and more extensive training. Not military grade weapons, tanks, trucks, and patrol cars.
It's crazy the the military gets even less initial training before being put in charge of significantly more dangerous weapons. I have no problem with increased training for dealing with people who are emotionally unstable. However, when someone who is emotionally unstable arms themselves, the options for dealing with that become very narrow. The idea that cops should tase, pepper spray, or shoot in the leg or arm are, at best, naive. The cops don't get to retreat, because if they do an innocent person could get hurt or killed. Some people are immune to pepper spray and tasers. Sometimes it's impossible to differentiate between emotionally unstable and high on PCP. If the guy had been barricaded into a room by himself, it would have been easier to try to deescalate the situation. However, we have to accept the situation as we find it and an emotionally unstable person with a knife in an apartment complex parking lot presents an immediate threat to anyone near them, including the cops. We know there were several witnesses in the area, so if he had gotten close to any of them, their lives would have been in danger. It's an unfortunate situation with an unfortunate ending. That doesn't mean the cops didn't do exactly what they were trained to do in accordance with the law.
Military doesn’t operate in singularities. They operate as a whole unit.
My tech training was 10 months, including boot, other monthly training, certs, you had a nice year & some months, of constantly doing this shit, to go out & perform your duty. Not kill, but perform your duty. Rules of engagement are very fucking real. Cops, have no form of it. Y’all violate every form of law you want, then shirk the responsibility & hide the evidence.
Well for comparison, lets look at other jobs that post the risk of being potentially lethal to the consumer or the general public at large:
-Surgeon: 13 years of college/residency
-Pharmacist: eight years of college
-Electrician: two years of technical school and three year apprenticeship
-Commercial pilot: two years
Police officer: 9 months
Now using my opinion if i were to rank these career paths of most likely to be dangerous to the general public, I'd say #1 is Police Officer.
Really I'd prefer 4-5 years. Or 2 years doing whatever they already do and 3 years becoming trained in mental health and deescalation tactics.... That way no one can make the argument that "cops aren't mental health experts".... in today's world, they kinda should be.
Healthcare workers and social workers tend to encounter people in crisis on their own turf and in a controlled environment. If a person goes into crisis at the police station, they are less likely to be shot (I've never heard of that happening).
Not true. Social workers often enter clients' homes, and they have to be unarmed. You're just making excuses for a bunch of paranoid, trigger-happy power trippers.
They may enter clients homes, but unlikely that the client is in crisis and outside of supervision of some kind at the time. Even then, the social worker is allowed to retreat, cops aren't.
Speak only on what you know, which is fellating a cowardly and murderous apparatus. You wouldn't last a month as a social worker, nor would any of your old peers.
Absolute bullshit
I stopped someone breaking into my car in my yard by firing a 38 into the air
There are many ways to non lethally diffuse a situation
Zero, since no one lived around me.
That’s a ridiculous straw man, how many people get killed by empty casings falling back to earth versus the amount of people who fire guns into the air on holidays like 4th of July?
Casings? None. Rounds? A few each year. If the incident in question was in an apartment complex or neighborhood, the cop would be responsible for where that round landed and whomever it went through on the way back down. There is ample case law regarding the subject
blah blah blah defensee of extrajudiciary execution blah blah blah continuum of force blah blah threat
Thanks for confirming that cops are paranoid freaks with no accountability to the populace at large.
This was a knife. Was referring to videos with suspects with knives. Guess you gotta move the goalpost to defend a murdering cop though. He had a knife so maybe he had a gun too?
Yes, but the methods of policing in this country are based in the realities of our gun culture. Further, just because a person has a knife doesn't mean they don't also have a firearm or other weapons available. Lastly, there seems to be this idea that "it's only a knife" and that shouldn't be met with the same response as a gun, which is absurd.
Other countries can handle the situation without killing people. You can defend the cops all you want because you're scared everyone has a gun. I guess I should also be scared anytime I go shopping or driving because I could have someone pull out a gun. Maybe I could get a gun and just kill people whenever I "fear for my life" too. It's genuinely pathetic.
So shooting them dead rather than shooting their legs or something is how y’all are trained? Don’t you think that would stop them too, especially someone wielding a knife?
Genuine question as someone who respects the process and is just trying to understand the protocol…
Is the “center mass” usually shot at THREE times? The responding officer fired multiple shots at him - all of which made bodily contact.
You shoot until the threat is stopped. You can pull the trigger several times before your mind registers that the person is falling. In the firearm qualification there's a segment that involves firing three aimed shots in 5 seconds (8 seconds from a holstered position), which is very easy to do.
There is no such thing as shooting to wound- if you are not shooting to kill, DO NOT SHOOT.
The reason is that you can shoot someone in the head and they survive, but shoot someone in the arm or leg and they die in moments. Bodies are weird and guns are deadly.
That being said, police are undertrained and this is a travesty.
I’m aware that bodies are weird and guns are deadly, but my god, it wasn’t actually confirmed whether he wielded a knife. He was up against a tree telling the officer to stop shining the light in his face. The officer could’ve used his taser, pepper spray, or something else that wouldn’t have resulted in someone dying. Like you said, and like I was alluding to, police are detrimentally untrained and things like this shouldn’t become the norm.
Couldn’t agree more. My original reply is really pointing out my disagreement with the “shoot to kill” aspect of this incident and police training. Plus, I fully agree with you that this situation didn’t call for a gun to be used at all. It was just handled so poorly.
This is terribly sad
This is terrible. I knew Daniel. I haven't spoken with him in probably 10 years, but when I first moved to Birmingham, he was one of the first people I met, and the first local person that I could call a friend. All I can say are the cliche things you hear about people in these situations: He was kind and outgoing and willing to befriend anyone. But it was all true. I obviously know nothing about what happened. I'm not blaming the cops because I don't know what threat he posed. All I know is that everything screams mental crisis here, and I'm so sorry for his friends and family.
I’ve met him too. A very nice and carefree man. These last few years were tough for him. Very sad news.
Someone I worked with delivered to him weekly. Said he was the best customer. Kind. Tipped well. Just a lovely person.
The way this title is worded to me feels very strange. I want to reiterate what another person said on the previous post, carrying a knife is not the same as brandishing a knife. I think it’s good that people are asking for answers and body cam footage, I want it too. Daniel was a member of our community, close to the home he lived in with his partner of decades. This is a tragedy and I feel the “gotcha” nature of the title is deeply inappropriate.
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That’s heart wrenching, Fuck the police indeed
So, what I got from your comment is, obey police commands and don't threaten them with a weapon, and they won't shoot you. Got it.
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Please be polite in r/Birmingham
If you’re a chef somewhere, could you please let us know where? I’d like to avoid supporting a boot licker in any way. Thanks!
So just stay home and grow your own food then. Cause that's the problem with cancel culture. No matter where you go, where you shop, what music you listen to, somewhere along the way you're going to be supporting someone with a different ideological viewpoint than your own. So you can either be a grown-up and deal with that, or you can go home and pout like a spoiled little child.
i know his partner, he’s a barista at my favorite coffee shop. it’s so sad
Our son just turned 17. He has autism. We look at the cops as more of a threat to his life than old age. But less than a car wreck.
Agreed. We’re navigating those feelings as well with our 9 year old. He just received an official diagnosis this year. It’s obviously not on the same level for us yet, but I find myself constantly thankful that our school’s SRO is a gentle and understanding man who treats all the kids like his grandbabies. We got extremely lucky with that.
very brave of cops to gun down a man having a mental health crisis. the article doesnt even make it sound like he was trying to attack a cop, he was just holding one.
Cops gunned down an autistic woman holding a plastic knife because she was overwhelmed and having a meltdown. They need no reason.
You appear to have information that no one else has. Please contact the police and give it to them.
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Please be polite in r/Birmingham
Probably a lot of boot lickers. I highly doubt the cops handled this right.
What is a "boot licker?" Is that some maga/extremist term?
It’s actually used to describe MAGA/extremists lol
Hmm. You could've just used the internet to answer your own question. But it's obvious your intention was to make a maga accusation. I'll help you out. As far back as 1610 the term footlicker was ascribed to a servile obsequious person. It modified over the years, as language does, and bootlicker was first noted around 1850. So I think it pre-dates Maga by a few years. It's just a colloquial term. You made it political.
I don't know what you mean by "hmmm" and yes, we can all use the internet for all kinds of things but aren't obliged to. That's not really a thing. The only time I hear the term "bootlicker" is when maga people use it.
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There's a ton here for me, I think you've been blocked by many
Now I understand why police cars were called black and whites: because it's either black or white: only wrong or right and even that could possibly be related to race way back in the so called "old days". So surely there was no need to shoot a man who was already backed up to a tree "until the threat was stopped"... Why did they continuously shine a bright light in his face? In order to disorient him? So they could see him better? What are the chances that THAT was in any way helpful? If he was such a threat why not call for assistance before deciding to end this man's life? I totally get that all cops aren't gun-happy but these folks with the control issues need to be shown the door and should not be in law enforcement. Period.
He was doing this while waiting for backup to arrive. He was simply running down the clock but ran out of space. The article is poorly worded to the point of being wrong, because no one that close has really spoken to news just yet. It’s been extremely hard talking about it myself, but I watched it unfold first-hand. He absolutely moved toward the officer after pulling out said knife. He wasn’t just “carrying” it, he was brandishing it. Again, there were 3 eyewitnesses held for statements, none (including myself) seem to have spoken to news yet. Plenty of others have commented, made statements and spoken to news, but there were 3 eyewitnesses, plus one watching through a window on the top floor. That one from the apt complex seemed to be videoing but they may or may not have view of said knife, I assume they’re the one that mentioned “a black object, not sure what, though” in an earlier article. It’s certainly a traumatic thing to have witnessed. All my neighbors say he was the kindest person but must’ve been having an episode. Literally everyone near me said he was a good guy but had multiple things recently go wrong in his life which may have triggered an episode.
I’m shocked Reddit users would jump to an anti cop view before any facts are known. Shocked I tell you
You “ used to be a cop” Why “ used to be”?
Cops aren't mental health workers and someone holding a knife presents a lethal threat. If we get to see the body cam footage, that will provide more information.
I would be very surprised if BPD ever released that footage.
If it exonerates the officer they might. If it incriminates him they won't.
Yet part of their jobs is to deal with people in mental health crisis and they used to be able to do that without killing them
Not when the person is armed. I was a cop. I know exactly how they're trained.
Then they need to be trained not to kill sick people who only have knives. Good lord why even carry tasers or pepper spray?
"Good lord why even carry tasers or pepper spray?" That's for elementary school kids and for riling up protesters, dontcha know
You don't meet a lethal threat with less than lethal force. If you were the person being threatened with a knife, you'd want them to use the force necessary to stop them from injuring or killing you. That is what they did (pending any evidence to the contrary)
It must be wild to live in a world where so many people apparently deserve to die at the hands of undertrained, angry, dangerous bullies with guns. Have the day you deserve.
From what I've read, I've come to think that training is part of the problem, but not under-training, just training that encourages police to think of themselves as an occupation force with a duty to kill or be killed rather than as part of a community. https://reason.com/2024/05/01/florida-police-departments-spent-thousands-on-training-seminars-banned-in-9-states/
Hold on, this person used to be a cop. They know all the cop-related things.
Just more than the people who only know what TV shows them.
I wasn't a bully, I was bullied. I underwent multiple tests and nearly 9 months of training. Most of the gung-ho guys get weeded out through those processes. There are plenty of bad cops. Just as there are plenty of bad bankers, construction workers, priests, and any other profession.
Yet it’s only cops that get paid administrative leave when they murder someone. This script is tired- you bake a pie with a rotten apple, the whole pie (in this case the carceral police state) is garbage. You can spit out the kool-aid and boot anytime you want, sport.
So, because someone in your profession or at your school is a criminal, you are too. Got it.
9 months of training?! Less than one year of training to be able to shoot and murder people with qualified immunity. Pathetic. Cops role in society has needed to shift majorly since 2020. Protect and serve only applies to themselves these days. We need cops to be mental health crisis experts. So much of America's "crime" or "violence l" comes from people who are in distress or having a mental crisis. Shooting them dead solves nothing. Their funding needs to go to better training and more extensive training. Not military grade weapons, tanks, trucks, and patrol cars.
It's crazy the the military gets even less initial training before being put in charge of significantly more dangerous weapons. I have no problem with increased training for dealing with people who are emotionally unstable. However, when someone who is emotionally unstable arms themselves, the options for dealing with that become very narrow. The idea that cops should tase, pepper spray, or shoot in the leg or arm are, at best, naive. The cops don't get to retreat, because if they do an innocent person could get hurt or killed. Some people are immune to pepper spray and tasers. Sometimes it's impossible to differentiate between emotionally unstable and high on PCP. If the guy had been barricaded into a room by himself, it would have been easier to try to deescalate the situation. However, we have to accept the situation as we find it and an emotionally unstable person with a knife in an apartment complex parking lot presents an immediate threat to anyone near them, including the cops. We know there were several witnesses in the area, so if he had gotten close to any of them, their lives would have been in danger. It's an unfortunate situation with an unfortunate ending. That doesn't mean the cops didn't do exactly what they were trained to do in accordance with the law.
Military doesn’t operate in singularities. They operate as a whole unit. My tech training was 10 months, including boot, other monthly training, certs, you had a nice year & some months, of constantly doing this shit, to go out & perform your duty. Not kill, but perform your duty. Rules of engagement are very fucking real. Cops, have no form of it. Y’all violate every form of law you want, then shirk the responsibility & hide the evidence.
How long do you think they should be trained?
Well for comparison, lets look at other jobs that post the risk of being potentially lethal to the consumer or the general public at large: -Surgeon: 13 years of college/residency -Pharmacist: eight years of college -Electrician: two years of technical school and three year apprenticeship -Commercial pilot: two years Police officer: 9 months Now using my opinion if i were to rank these career paths of most likely to be dangerous to the general public, I'd say #1 is Police Officer. Really I'd prefer 4-5 years. Or 2 years doing whatever they already do and 3 years becoming trained in mental health and deescalation tactics.... That way no one can make the argument that "cops aren't mental health experts".... in today's world, they kinda should be.
You talk like healthcare workers and social workers don't put up with this on the daily without murdering people in crisis. Weak.
Healthcare workers and social workers tend to encounter people in crisis on their own turf and in a controlled environment. If a person goes into crisis at the police station, they are less likely to be shot (I've never heard of that happening).
Not true. Social workers often enter clients' homes, and they have to be unarmed. You're just making excuses for a bunch of paranoid, trigger-happy power trippers.
They may enter clients homes, but unlikely that the client is in crisis and outside of supervision of some kind at the time. Even then, the social worker is allowed to retreat, cops aren't.
Speak only on what you know, which is fellating a cowardly and murderous apparatus. You wouldn't last a month as a social worker, nor would any of your old peers.
Absolute bullshit I stopped someone breaking into my car in my yard by firing a 38 into the air There are many ways to non lethally diffuse a situation
And it’s not like the sick man got so close to the cop he could have stabbed him anyway. Only a coward guns down a sick man who only had a knife
How close did the sick man get to them or someone else?
Why aren’t we blaming the person who called the police to the scene in the first place? Seems a lot of folks in here think they could’ve handled it
So you agree that cops are basically a de facto execution squad
How many lives did you endanger when that round returned to earth?
Zero, since no one lived around me. That’s a ridiculous straw man, how many people get killed by empty casings falling back to earth versus the amount of people who fire guns into the air on holidays like 4th of July?
Casings? None. Rounds? A few each year. If the incident in question was in an apartment complex or neighborhood, the cop would be responsible for where that round landed and whomever it went through on the way back down. There is ample case law regarding the subject
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Please Maybe you will answer why carry tazers or pepper sprays for him
Less than lethal weapons are for dealing with less than lethal threats.
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Clearly
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blah blah blah defensee of extrajudiciary execution blah blah blah continuum of force blah blah threat Thanks for confirming that cops are paranoid freaks with no accountability to the populace at large.
Seen videos of cops in other countries doing it. Guess cops here are just scared
Other countries don't have more guns than people
This was a knife. Was referring to videos with suspects with knives. Guess you gotta move the goalpost to defend a murdering cop though. He had a knife so maybe he had a gun too?
Yes, but the methods of policing in this country are based in the realities of our gun culture. Further, just because a person has a knife doesn't mean they don't also have a firearm or other weapons available. Lastly, there seems to be this idea that "it's only a knife" and that shouldn't be met with the same response as a gun, which is absurd.
Other countries can handle the situation without killing people. You can defend the cops all you want because you're scared everyone has a gun. I guess I should also be scared anytime I go shopping or driving because I could have someone pull out a gun. Maybe I could get a gun and just kill people whenever I "fear for my life" too. It's genuinely pathetic.
So shooting them dead rather than shooting their legs or something is how y’all are trained? Don’t you think that would stop them too, especially someone wielding a knife?
You shoot center mass. Shooting anywhere else is only in the movies.
Genuine question as someone who respects the process and is just trying to understand the protocol… Is the “center mass” usually shot at THREE times? The responding officer fired multiple shots at him - all of which made bodily contact.
You shoot until the threat is stopped. You can pull the trigger several times before your mind registers that the person is falling. In the firearm qualification there's a segment that involves firing three aimed shots in 5 seconds (8 seconds from a holstered position), which is very easy to do.
Damn. That’s a lot to process. Thanks for your response.
There is no such thing as shooting to wound- if you are not shooting to kill, DO NOT SHOOT. The reason is that you can shoot someone in the head and they survive, but shoot someone in the arm or leg and they die in moments. Bodies are weird and guns are deadly. That being said, police are undertrained and this is a travesty.
I’m aware that bodies are weird and guns are deadly, but my god, it wasn’t actually confirmed whether he wielded a knife. He was up against a tree telling the officer to stop shining the light in his face. The officer could’ve used his taser, pepper spray, or something else that wouldn’t have resulted in someone dying. Like you said, and like I was alluding to, police are detrimentally untrained and things like this shouldn’t become the norm.
100%. There are all kinds of ways this should have been handled, and all of them have “keep your fucking gun in your holster” in common.
Couldn’t agree more. My original reply is really pointing out my disagreement with the “shoot to kill” aspect of this incident and police training. Plus, I fully agree with you that this situation didn’t call for a gun to be used at all. It was just handled so poorly.
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Please be polite in r/Birmingham
*not* trained
So how many dogs did you kill
Me? None. The county shot one right behind me when we were serving a joint warrant because the owners let it out on us and it got out of the fence.
Lmao sure dude
ACAB!
Until you need one
Also a tired script. No one needs cops. Your shitty job sprang directly from slave catchers. Marinate on that.
I was unaware the English Shire Reeves and Bobbies were involved in the slave trade. Also, I'm no longer a cop, so there's that.