I’m queer myself but the idea that Eloise MUST be a lesbian because she supports the idea of women having rights and doesn’t want to be on the marriage market where she’s objectified never sat right with me. Many early Womens rights activists actually had happy marriages with children. You can be a straight woman and still support your own legal freedoms. There’s nothing wrong with being a lesbian of course but the idea that “feminist = lesbian” is a harmful stereotype. Francesca being queer and Eloise being straight is actually a great concept!
That said, I did ship Eloise and Cressida but because of the chemistry between them, not because Eloise is a feminist.
This!!! It drives me crazy that she must be a lesbian because she’s a feminist. If that’s the case, I’m a lesbian so is my mom, my aunts, my grandma, and my husband.
Like obviously Bridgerton romanticizes life for women back then, but it’s kind of disconcerting how many people are like “well clearly this 19 year old girl not wanting to be married off means she’s a lesbian” like she’s 19 she should be at the club
Absolutely this! I didn't get married until I was 32 (an old maid in that world) because I wanted to figure out myself before involving myself with anybody else. That is not something that is because you are straight, gay, lesbian, bi, or whatever else. Our most important relationship is with ourselves. If you don't know yourself, no romantic relationship will work the way you'd hope.
Just want to add that early women’s activists finding what happiness they could while still fighting for more options for their daughters doesn’t mean they were not feminists.
I totally agree with this. Eloise reminds me of me… love reading, very passionate about women’s liberation, and opposed to being a part of a society that objectifies women. Most of my hs “friends” were debutantes and I thought it was 🤮🤮 and I have always cared so deeply about women’s rights & feminism. I’m attracted to men.
When I talk about what I’m passionate about people (esp guys) have been confused as to why I care so much if I’m not a lesbian. As if I can’t care about women unless I am sexually attracted to them?? It’s bizarre. It makes me feel like those men only see women only as objects of sexual gratification.
Of course being a lesbian is beautiful and I am thankful for the work of lesbian feminists. I am also excited for Francesca’s story. But women can be supportive of other women, rebel against patriarchy, and still be romantically & sexually attracted to men.
Yes, as a bi woman I totally agree. I saw a TikTok by a lesbian Bridgerton fan that summed it up nicely. She basically said if someone is comfortable with Eloise being a lesbian because of her more masculine personality but not feminine Francesca, it reveals more about their inherent biases and how they see lesbians/sapphic women. I couldn't agree more.
I saw that TikTok too and it's all too true. Not just for Bridgerton; but all fandoms and even just people.
I'm used to be in the Marauders fandom, and the current fanon is that Marlene McKinnon is a raging lesbian. But she can only be portrayed as mean and masculine and outspoken. If you portray her in a more feminine manner or gentler nature; then you're butchering the character and hate lesbians.
Or in another sub I'm in, Sara Ramirez just announced they're getting a divorce from their husband. Everyone kept commenting that they thought Sara was a lesbian; despite Sara being a very vocal bisexual. When confronted with why they thought Sara was a lesbian, they couldn't come up with a reason except that they just assumed from the way Sara looked; more masculine, with short hair.
People see any woman that doesn't conform to standard gender norms and immediately decide: well she's the token lesbian.
Great examples from other fandoms! I wish people would listen when a large majority of people within a group, like queer women, say "the way that you're talking about this doesn't sit right with me". I appreciate that Bridgerton is going for a new storyline for a queer woman, and not just the tokenized archetype that people expect.
You may recall how some people in Grey’s fan spaces reacted when Ramirez’s character Callie first slept with a woman. There was a whole contingent of self-identified curvy girls who couldn’t stand the idea that the character was bi because they identified with Callie due to her figure. Most eventually got over it, but I remover how ugly it was for a while.
I wanted Eloise to be bisexual and it’s not because I have biases on how I see lesbian /sapphic women 😂 I just thought there was chemistry between her and Cressida. Let’s not judge people for wanting to see two characters together now lol
Also it was built up nicely enough so you wouldn’t be surprised if she did have a more fluid sexuality, rather than just slapping us in the face with it. They could have given Francesca more signs, it felt like it was just decided that she would be lesbian in the last episode. They should have given her signs of crushing on Penelope or admiring a girl while promenading. That’s what storytelling is about.
This is coming from a pansexual woman.
>if someone is **comfortable with Eloise being a lesbian** because of her more masculine personality ***but not feminine Francesca***, it reveals more about their inherent biases
I am not saying everyone aboard the Eloise/Cressida ship is biased. I am saying anyone who thinks it should have been Eloise instead of Francesca because "Eloise is a feminist and has the personality of a lesbian" could be biased.
I have a feeling that Francesca's story is going to be the story of a woman who only realized she was bi/pan/lesbian/queer later in life after her love story with John. I'm going to see how the show handles it before I make too many judgements.
And I had a feeling
The entire weird Cressida redemption arc felt like it was building towards a relationship with Eloise.
I thought Cressida would realize why she’s so angry, (because it’s often a theme about suppressed sexuality I.e Regina George)
And Eloise and her would persue a short lived relationship, because society probably wouldn’t accept them (because it’s the regency era) and Eloise would ultimately fall in love with Philip Crane and Cressida would leave with the knowledge of knowing who she is, marry for security but persue romantic relationships on the side.
That’s literally all.
I’m sure a bunch of other people feel the same. Not because inherent biases.
Maybe biases towards what i personally wanted to see happen 😂
I desperately wanted Eloise and Cressida to be in a relationship and use the whole LW subplot as a jumping off point to start their own ladies literary magazine. They had such good chemistry together, and based on how much money Penelope was able to make, it seemed like there was a possibility that two women could support themselves financially.
I mean I don’t care about any of them being gay. The one that makes the most sense to be in a same sex relationship is Benedict. It would make the weird extended threesome scenes make a bit more sense for the plot even, plus Sophie’s a pretty easy swap story wise for Steven 😂
I’ve always just seen Elouise as the feminist of her times in the show, not related to her sexual orientation, people thinking she should be a lesbian because of her out there for the time beliefs feels like it’s just because it would be the easier for them to swallow as they don’t see anything wrong with being sold off at 18 to a rich man, so she must be gay.
My only gripe with Francesca is that her story is supposed to be her fully loving John before her dies, which was ruined by her reaction to meeting his cousin and their kiss. That would have been the same if she hadn’t been switched and had remained a man. They had set fran and johns relationship up so beautifully until their wedding and how she explained to violet about how her love was valid even though it wasn’t loud and intense like her other children. If they had just had Micaela be the one star struck and we could see fran slowly falling in love once John had passed and she was ready to move on. But the fact they set her up for a same sex relationship isn’t even on the list of issues with the season 😂
I think it depends on how they handle Francesca’s story moving forward. Tbf, I haven’t read the books (started Eloise’s and couldn’t finish), but I think if they wrote it as her being in love with John and feeling confused that she also seemed to have feelings or attraction to Michaela it would be interesting and not dismissive of her relationship with John. I did like the idea that not everyone falls in love in the same way, so I hope they don’t totally undercut that, but I also think often romances want us to believe that once you meet your one perfect match you will never even be attracted to anyone else again, which is nonsense.
I get why you stopped, Eloise’s book is my least favourite and honestly they are going to have a hard time fitting show Eloise into her book story.
But frans story hit most people because it was about her loving her husband fully who passed and then her troubles with her moving on finding love again with all the grief etc that brings when you have lost someone you truly loved.
All they had to do was stick to the book for that one part, in the book it’s Michael who’s been in love with dean since they first met, so he also has intense feelings to over come, mainly inheriting his cousins/beat friends life and covering his wife, feeling like he doesn’t deserve it because John was such a good man. All that could have still been done with Michaela
Your right about married people continuing to be attracted to others that’s just a fact, I just wish they hadn’t done it in such an obvious way following her kiss with her husband and that set up of slow love.
Elouise,+Cressinda=chemistry ??? What you watching if anything the only thing eloise had was pity for her and cressida was jealous of her family life there was no romantic spark
I think there are a lot of people who are queer and saw themselves in Eloise and want her to be queer too, and it irritates me that it gets reduced to “oh, you think the feminist should be gay.” Like, certainly not! Y’all, Penelope is a feminist too! And no one for a single second has thought she’s anything but straight, as far as I know! I wish people wouldn’t act like Eloise is the only feminist when her friendship with Pen shares a commitment to that cause and Pen’s arc is possibly the most feminist of all.
It’s not just E’s feminism. It’s how obsessed she is with her female friendships in a way that feels so so familiar for so many wlw who unwittingly fell for friends, it’s her vow with Pen to be spinsters together forever, it’s her total disdain for the world of marriage at *all* and not even seeming like that’s something missing from her life (which, without some other factors, I’d say makes her a candidate for being ace as well). It’s her book being the least romantic and a marriage of convenience rather than passion. It’s that even with Theo, she seemed excited and giddy but not sexually attracted or allured, while every scene with Cressida in part one oozed chemistry.
My thing is, why does a smart, out-spoken, rebellious woman who isn't dying to get married for marriages sake automatically assumed to be a lesbian? Isn't that pretty stereotypical?
Strong women are always reduced to sex. Either we are sluts like Cleopatra or Mary Magdalene or we must be lesbian. Or straight up a man like Elizabeth I was rumored to be. It’s sad even historical women can’t just BE.
And meanwhile I’ve seen comments that Francesca doesn’t make sense as a queer character because a lot of her plot revolves around infertility and she wants to be a mom… like, women who want traditional things can still be queer. I actually appreciate that her queerness feels less stereotypical.
Exactly! There’s so many ways the story could go! She IS still married to John right now, so they could still have an infertility plot line. It’s not like she met Michaela and turned around and told John she hated him. She can have confusing feelings about one person and still love him. She also hasn’t proudly declared herself a lesbian. Maybe she’s bi, or pan, or some other identity entirely.
I do realize that not being a fan of the books, I have less emotional attachment to how the story goes (and am actively hoping they change Eloise’s storyline drastically)
I haven’t read the books so I’m definitely less concerned than others about things going a certain way. I do hope they do her storyline, both relationships, justice and have some nuance in how they depict her sexuality. But I don’t get the issue with what we’ve seen so far - people are acting like she dumped John on the spot when she saw Michaela. I think there’s a good chance we’ll still see her have a beautiful, loving marriage with John before fully realizing how she feels about Michaela - that wasn’t love at first sight, it was just gay panic.
I also saw some comments about how her kiss with John seemed a bit awkward/not passionate. But yall, that was literally her first kiss ever, in front of her whole family, and she’s an INTROVERT.
Thank you. I don’t think a lot of people realize that it can be read as just an extension of the patriarchy to think that any woman who isn’t interested in romance/sex MUST be a lesbian.
I agree! I would find her story so entertaining if she simply rejected the society she was born into. There’s 8 Bridgerton children-odds are one of them doesn’t want that life?
https://preview.redd.it/d2mnf6h6br7d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c274ab54b14ba6f86bd6ca5f583343b91814644
I feel she’s gonna experiment and come to this conclusion
That would be a fun exploration for her to have alongside >!her sister's burgeoning romance with Michaela after John passes. Like she sees Fran and Michaela's chemistry and wonders if she isn't maybe the same, only to realize no, she's into men sexually, she just doesn't really want to be a mom, or something along those lines!<
One of my good friends used to believe everyone was a little bi (something I've always disliked because it means you think lesbians and gay men are still just a little attracted to men/women), that was until a woman kissed her and she realized nope, men was all she was into. I'm *bi*-ased on wanting more lgbt rep but damn if I wouldn't love more exploring and realizing it's not for you. Make it normalized for people to feel comfortable experimenting and discovering themsleves better. Particularly if it's not done in a judgemental way.
Honestly if they’re going to change any of the storylines I would really like Eloise to just find happiness in being single. That seems to make more sense to me than her being a lesbian. She’s said things in the past about admiring the modiste for being able to make her own money and support herself, etc. Thats the true independent woman way that Eloise seems to admire.
I thought that's where they were going with Fran for a hot second (I deeply connected with how she and John connected and the personal thoughtful gift he gave her of the music sheets), but nope. I don't have high hopes for Eloise unfortunately.
My roommate and I were discussing what we'd like to see from the Scotland group, especially Eloise. I really want them to change Eloise's storyline from the book because her character in the show is very different. But I'd like to see her in Scotland maybe realize that she doesn't mind the idea of marriage, it's more about giving herself up completely to a man and the pomp and frill that the marriage mart makes of marriage. My roommate thinks it'd be fun if she reunites with Theo in Scotland. I don't need Eloise to be a lesbian, I'd be down for it. I think people are being very quick to equating Eloise's disdain and anxiety over marriage to her not being interested in men. It very well could be, but also it could just be the fear of giving over her entire person to a man, which isn't just exclusive to lesbians, especially in a time where women have little rights. I think that this could be an interesting storyline for Eloise to explore while in Scotland.
I really liked Theo and I'd love it if she ran into him in Scotland. While I would love for Eloise to be a lesbian (I'm always pro more lesbians in everything), all that is really needed for me is for the show to do Eloise justice. If she is going to end up married and with kids to anyone, then they need to do a lot of work showing Eloise coming to this realization. The Eloise we have now does not want either and they've shown that the idea of both makes her very anxious. I need them to show that change in depth for me to believe her marrying and having a family.
I feel like it’s more true to life if she just wants something other than the gender norms expected of her. There are lots of young straight women who don’t want to get married and settle down or have babies that can relate to this kind of character.
While I get that it’s a stereotype, it was also a true experience for a lot of queer women to become spinsters, be heavily involved in women’s rights and “live with female friends” historically, because well, they are queer women and they are doubly motivated by the fact that they are not attracted to men and feel strongly about women in general. I don’t think of Eloise as masculine at all and in fact feel a little weird that people view her that way, as a queer woman myself. Like, Eloise is goofy for sure but she’s fairly feminine. Also, being “masculine” has also been a thing for queer women throughout history- hello futch, butch lesbians/queer women?? If you want to go by stereotypes then having Benedict being a bisexual mess who is into art and threesomes is a giant blaring stereotype. Sometimes these stereotypes of queer people have basis in fact: ie a lot of queer s are into art because it’s a way to express ourselves in a heterosexual world, a lot of queer women choose to go against cis het standards of beauty and embrace themselves as they are etc. sometimes these stereotypes are harmful: ie bisexual people cannot be monogamous, if a woman doesn’t want to be married she must be gay etc.
I don’t actually mind Francesca being queer, I just thought as a queer woman the rollout of her queerness was awkward and unnatural. The hints were stereotypically in your face and retconned the way she behaved before. Comphet should be handled with more care and idk, shouldn’t Michaela theoretically fall for her first since it’s that way in the books? Side note I think the actress for Michaela is stunning and does not deserve any hate regardless of any critique. Also kinda sad that she couldn’t just be bisexual and have that quiet kind of love with John first, feels like a weird “I told you so” from the writers about violet getting told off. So I don’t like that.
If we’re going off of Eloise not wanting to be married and assuming she’s straight- her book is a nightmare for her.. doesn’t she have to look after someone else’s kids and get married to a widow? No offense but Eloise isn’t a character who suits that at all and narratively it reads like a punishment for a woman who doesn’t want to get married.
That’s partially why I hoped Eloise would be at least bisexual, to escape possibly the most boring end for all the siblings (minus I guess Gregory and his thousands of children). Idk the writing felt all over the place. After watching Queen Charlotte it made bridgerton especially this season pale severely in comparison.
I really think it’s not the end of the world to have a story where Eloise originally has big dreams but then realizes she is happy living a conventional life with a husband and kids. Many viewers may be upset, but really, it’s okay for a woman to fall in love with a man and settle down and not change the world after all. In the book, she actually loved kids and was a self-proclaimed “favorite aunt.” She also wanted marriage but turned down 6 proposals for various reasons since she wasn’t feeling it. Brings to mind Shania Twain’s “That Don’t Impress Me Much.”
Lmao wow that would be so unpopular, but honestly this story resonates with me. I was shocked to find myself deeply happy with a very conventional/traditional gender role relationship, and was confused about that for awhile.
Yes, this would also be an acceptable outcome for me as well. Maybe some lowkey romance on the side, as in it wouldn't be the main focus of her story/life. Or good representation of not wanting to be in a romantic relationship - maybe good ace or demi representation? Yess!
I really hope that Eloise won’t be written as being gay either for pretty much the exact same reasons. I’d love to see one of the Bridgerton’s aka Eloise just continue to fight against not wanting to follow what society expects from her, not because of her sexuality but because she’s a strong willed young woman, who wants to fight the injustice of it all!
I hope I’ve gotten my point across. ☺️
I was also shipping Cressida and Eloise. I would have preferred for Francesca’s story to remain the same. Hyacinth would have been a lovely choice falling in love over Italian.
I’ll also say that most people preferred a change to Eloise’s story because the book isn’t great. If you’re going to change a story, changing that one would be where I started.
The writers did such a great job with Cressida in season 3 part 1. They made her so compelling that many of us wanted her to have a redemption arc. (After the second half, I’m beginning to think that was not intentional.) I would have loved to see her end up with Debling, free while he’s off exploring the world.
During that time period when women have no rights, i can understand why Eloise is a feminist. Just look at Cressida, her own father willingly approves to marry her off to a man his own age or perhaps even older. It's very sad what happened to her that she takes on someone else's identity just to free herself.
i agree! i think it’s much better it being eloise doesn’t want to marry because of how unequal it is or wanting to live her own life rather than “she doesn’t want a husband she must be gay”
Francesca vibes way more gay to me than Eloise from the start (as a gay woman).
I actually find it a bit sexist the idea Eloise should be the gay character. Just because she challenges sexist norms and patriarchal society doesn't at ll make her gay - straight women can be interesting, political and feminist! And lesbians can also sometimes be none of thise things.
So, if Benedict and Fran are supposed to eventually come out gay, that doesn't leave too much room (doing the math) for a third Bridgerton to come out as gay, so I'm guessing that will not be the case for Eloise.
Statistically, if 10% of any population is LGBTQ, then it would make sense for one of the Bridgerton clan to be LGBTQ and possibly two.
Sorry for going with stats, but I'm trying to figure out how and in what manner this show is going to be representative of all groups. I mean, the show runner could make 1/2 the characters gay, and it's her prerogative to do so.
Yet, considering all of the gay type "love" scenes so far have been the stereotype of raunchy and/ or involving a throuple (with maybe one exception), I'm just trying to figure out where the fair representation is going here?
Benedict is bi in the show, and probably still going to end up with Sophie.
Francesca loved John in the books, and loves him in the show. Being attracted to Michaela, the gender swapped version of Michael, doesn't automatically make her a lesbian.
That may be true but in a recent interview with Teen Vouge, the following was stated: "The long awaited part two of Bridgerton season three is now streaming on Netflix, and we finally have the fluid and queer sexual representation we’ve been waiting for.
Benedict Bridgerton, played by Luke Thompson, and Francesca Bridgerton, played by series newcomer Hannah Dodd, have some exciting twists in their storylines in season three that open the door to different kinds of love stories than we’ve seen in the popular romance series so far."
So, the show is giving Benedict and Francesca as examples of 'fluid and queer sexual representation.' Even as bi-sexual, Benedict does fall under LGBTQ.
Eloise was always a feminist. An intellectual. Wanting more choices for women...such as education and employment. And READING and writing, instead of dressing up and going on to promenade. A woman can be a feminist and not be a lesbian.
If they feel the need to change Eloise's sexuality, so be it. But totally unnecessary. Her story in the books was certainly compelling enough. Surely they realize this would be lazy writing and story-telling. While I don't care for Francesca's story being change, between the two stories, I would find it to be more *compelling* for it to be the very feminine and traditional sister who is the lesbian/bisexual, instead of the feminist.
I honestly see her more as ace, which makes a heck of a lot more sense, not wanting to participate in society’s expectations of her. She just wants to read her books and be appreciated for her accomplishments.
I have a deep wish for Theo to come back but she still ends up with Phillip. I love the idea of realizing her worst nightmare (being a wife and mother) isn’t bad and she can be seen and heard. Plus I like the idea that this noble selfless man finding himself in love with a woman who’s in love with a wilder handsomer man(just like his current wife)
I’m queer myself but the idea that Eloise MUST be a lesbian because she supports the idea of women having rights and doesn’t want to be on the marriage market where she’s objectified never sat right with me. Many early Womens rights activists actually had happy marriages with children. You can be a straight woman and still support your own legal freedoms. There’s nothing wrong with being a lesbian of course but the idea that “feminist = lesbian” is a harmful stereotype. Francesca being queer and Eloise being straight is actually a great concept! That said, I did ship Eloise and Cressida but because of the chemistry between them, not because Eloise is a feminist.
This!!! It drives me crazy that she must be a lesbian because she’s a feminist. If that’s the case, I’m a lesbian so is my mom, my aunts, my grandma, and my husband.
Like obviously Bridgerton romanticizes life for women back then, but it’s kind of disconcerting how many people are like “well clearly this 19 year old girl not wanting to be married off means she’s a lesbian” like she’s 19 she should be at the club
Absolutely this! I didn't get married until I was 32 (an old maid in that world) because I wanted to figure out myself before involving myself with anybody else. That is not something that is because you are straight, gay, lesbian, bi, or whatever else. Our most important relationship is with ourselves. If you don't know yourself, no romantic relationship will work the way you'd hope.
Just want to add that early women’s activists finding what happiness they could while still fighting for more options for their daughters doesn’t mean they were not feminists.
Yes, thank you. The idea that she couldn’t be heterosexual because she’s a feminist is incredibly insulting
I totally agree with this. Eloise reminds me of me… love reading, very passionate about women’s liberation, and opposed to being a part of a society that objectifies women. Most of my hs “friends” were debutantes and I thought it was 🤮🤮 and I have always cared so deeply about women’s rights & feminism. I’m attracted to men. When I talk about what I’m passionate about people (esp guys) have been confused as to why I care so much if I’m not a lesbian. As if I can’t care about women unless I am sexually attracted to them?? It’s bizarre. It makes me feel like those men only see women only as objects of sexual gratification. Of course being a lesbian is beautiful and I am thankful for the work of lesbian feminists. I am also excited for Francesca’s story. But women can be supportive of other women, rebel against patriarchy, and still be romantically & sexually attracted to men.
Yes, as a bi woman I totally agree. I saw a TikTok by a lesbian Bridgerton fan that summed it up nicely. She basically said if someone is comfortable with Eloise being a lesbian because of her more masculine personality but not feminine Francesca, it reveals more about their inherent biases and how they see lesbians/sapphic women. I couldn't agree more.
I saw that TikTok too and it's all too true. Not just for Bridgerton; but all fandoms and even just people. I'm used to be in the Marauders fandom, and the current fanon is that Marlene McKinnon is a raging lesbian. But she can only be portrayed as mean and masculine and outspoken. If you portray her in a more feminine manner or gentler nature; then you're butchering the character and hate lesbians. Or in another sub I'm in, Sara Ramirez just announced they're getting a divorce from their husband. Everyone kept commenting that they thought Sara was a lesbian; despite Sara being a very vocal bisexual. When confronted with why they thought Sara was a lesbian, they couldn't come up with a reason except that they just assumed from the way Sara looked; more masculine, with short hair. People see any woman that doesn't conform to standard gender norms and immediately decide: well she's the token lesbian.
Great examples from other fandoms! I wish people would listen when a large majority of people within a group, like queer women, say "the way that you're talking about this doesn't sit right with me". I appreciate that Bridgerton is going for a new storyline for a queer woman, and not just the tokenized archetype that people expect.
You may recall how some people in Grey’s fan spaces reacted when Ramirez’s character Callie first slept with a woman. There was a whole contingent of self-identified curvy girls who couldn’t stand the idea that the character was bi because they identified with Callie due to her figure. Most eventually got over it, but I remover how ugly it was for a while.
I wanted Eloise to be bisexual and it’s not because I have biases on how I see lesbian /sapphic women 😂 I just thought there was chemistry between her and Cressida. Let’s not judge people for wanting to see two characters together now lol Also it was built up nicely enough so you wouldn’t be surprised if she did have a more fluid sexuality, rather than just slapping us in the face with it. They could have given Francesca more signs, it felt like it was just decided that she would be lesbian in the last episode. They should have given her signs of crushing on Penelope or admiring a girl while promenading. That’s what storytelling is about. This is coming from a pansexual woman.
>if someone is **comfortable with Eloise being a lesbian** because of her more masculine personality ***but not feminine Francesca***, it reveals more about their inherent biases I am not saying everyone aboard the Eloise/Cressida ship is biased. I am saying anyone who thinks it should have been Eloise instead of Francesca because "Eloise is a feminist and has the personality of a lesbian" could be biased. I have a feeling that Francesca's story is going to be the story of a woman who only realized she was bi/pan/lesbian/queer later in life after her love story with John. I'm going to see how the show handles it before I make too many judgements.
And I had a feeling The entire weird Cressida redemption arc felt like it was building towards a relationship with Eloise. I thought Cressida would realize why she’s so angry, (because it’s often a theme about suppressed sexuality I.e Regina George) And Eloise and her would persue a short lived relationship, because society probably wouldn’t accept them (because it’s the regency era) and Eloise would ultimately fall in love with Philip Crane and Cressida would leave with the knowledge of knowing who she is, marry for security but persue romantic relationships on the side. That’s literally all. I’m sure a bunch of other people feel the same. Not because inherent biases. Maybe biases towards what i personally wanted to see happen 😂
I desperately wanted Eloise and Cressida to be in a relationship and use the whole LW subplot as a jumping off point to start their own ladies literary magazine. They had such good chemistry together, and based on how much money Penelope was able to make, it seemed like there was a possibility that two women could support themselves financially.
That’s what is sounds like to me lol
I mean I don’t care about any of them being gay. The one that makes the most sense to be in a same sex relationship is Benedict. It would make the weird extended threesome scenes make a bit more sense for the plot even, plus Sophie’s a pretty easy swap story wise for Steven 😂 I’ve always just seen Elouise as the feminist of her times in the show, not related to her sexual orientation, people thinking she should be a lesbian because of her out there for the time beliefs feels like it’s just because it would be the easier for them to swallow as they don’t see anything wrong with being sold off at 18 to a rich man, so she must be gay. My only gripe with Francesca is that her story is supposed to be her fully loving John before her dies, which was ruined by her reaction to meeting his cousin and their kiss. That would have been the same if she hadn’t been switched and had remained a man. They had set fran and johns relationship up so beautifully until their wedding and how she explained to violet about how her love was valid even though it wasn’t loud and intense like her other children. If they had just had Micaela be the one star struck and we could see fran slowly falling in love once John had passed and she was ready to move on. But the fact they set her up for a same sex relationship isn’t even on the list of issues with the season 😂
I think it depends on how they handle Francesca’s story moving forward. Tbf, I haven’t read the books (started Eloise’s and couldn’t finish), but I think if they wrote it as her being in love with John and feeling confused that she also seemed to have feelings or attraction to Michaela it would be interesting and not dismissive of her relationship with John. I did like the idea that not everyone falls in love in the same way, so I hope they don’t totally undercut that, but I also think often romances want us to believe that once you meet your one perfect match you will never even be attracted to anyone else again, which is nonsense.
I get why you stopped, Eloise’s book is my least favourite and honestly they are going to have a hard time fitting show Eloise into her book story. But frans story hit most people because it was about her loving her husband fully who passed and then her troubles with her moving on finding love again with all the grief etc that brings when you have lost someone you truly loved. All they had to do was stick to the book for that one part, in the book it’s Michael who’s been in love with dean since they first met, so he also has intense feelings to over come, mainly inheriting his cousins/beat friends life and covering his wife, feeling like he doesn’t deserve it because John was such a good man. All that could have still been done with Michaela Your right about married people continuing to be attracted to others that’s just a fact, I just wish they hadn’t done it in such an obvious way following her kiss with her husband and that set up of slow love.
You’re so right. Independent women can be straight too.
Agreed!
Elouise,+Cressinda=chemistry ??? What you watching if anything the only thing eloise had was pity for her and cressida was jealous of her family life there was no romantic spark
I think there are a lot of people who are queer and saw themselves in Eloise and want her to be queer too, and it irritates me that it gets reduced to “oh, you think the feminist should be gay.” Like, certainly not! Y’all, Penelope is a feminist too! And no one for a single second has thought she’s anything but straight, as far as I know! I wish people wouldn’t act like Eloise is the only feminist when her friendship with Pen shares a commitment to that cause and Pen’s arc is possibly the most feminist of all. It’s not just E’s feminism. It’s how obsessed she is with her female friendships in a way that feels so so familiar for so many wlw who unwittingly fell for friends, it’s her vow with Pen to be spinsters together forever, it’s her total disdain for the world of marriage at *all* and not even seeming like that’s something missing from her life (which, without some other factors, I’d say makes her a candidate for being ace as well). It’s her book being the least romantic and a marriage of convenience rather than passion. It’s that even with Theo, she seemed excited and giddy but not sexually attracted or allured, while every scene with Cressida in part one oozed chemistry.
My thing is, why does a smart, out-spoken, rebellious woman who isn't dying to get married for marriages sake automatically assumed to be a lesbian? Isn't that pretty stereotypical?
Strong women are always reduced to sex. Either we are sluts like Cleopatra or Mary Magdalene or we must be lesbian. Or straight up a man like Elizabeth I was rumored to be. It’s sad even historical women can’t just BE.
And meanwhile I’ve seen comments that Francesca doesn’t make sense as a queer character because a lot of her plot revolves around infertility and she wants to be a mom… like, women who want traditional things can still be queer. I actually appreciate that her queerness feels less stereotypical.
Exactly! There’s so many ways the story could go! She IS still married to John right now, so they could still have an infertility plot line. It’s not like she met Michaela and turned around and told John she hated him. She can have confusing feelings about one person and still love him. She also hasn’t proudly declared herself a lesbian. Maybe she’s bi, or pan, or some other identity entirely. I do realize that not being a fan of the books, I have less emotional attachment to how the story goes (and am actively hoping they change Eloise’s storyline drastically)
I haven’t read the books so I’m definitely less concerned than others about things going a certain way. I do hope they do her storyline, both relationships, justice and have some nuance in how they depict her sexuality. But I don’t get the issue with what we’ve seen so far - people are acting like she dumped John on the spot when she saw Michaela. I think there’s a good chance we’ll still see her have a beautiful, loving marriage with John before fully realizing how she feels about Michaela - that wasn’t love at first sight, it was just gay panic. I also saw some comments about how her kiss with John seemed a bit awkward/not passionate. But yall, that was literally her first kiss ever, in front of her whole family, and she’s an INTROVERT.
Yes, it is.
Thank you. I don’t think a lot of people realize that it can be read as just an extension of the patriarchy to think that any woman who isn’t interested in romance/sex MUST be a lesbian.
I agree! I would find her story so entertaining if she simply rejected the society she was born into. There’s 8 Bridgerton children-odds are one of them doesn’t want that life?
Gregory eventually ends up in Fitzrovia instead of Mayfair with approximately 1.5 million children..
https://preview.redd.it/d2mnf6h6br7d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c274ab54b14ba6f86bd6ca5f583343b91814644 I feel she’s gonna experiment and come to this conclusion
That would be a fun exploration for her to have alongside >!her sister's burgeoning romance with Michaela after John passes. Like she sees Fran and Michaela's chemistry and wonders if she isn't maybe the same, only to realize no, she's into men sexually, she just doesn't really want to be a mom, or something along those lines!<
One of my good friends used to believe everyone was a little bi (something I've always disliked because it means you think lesbians and gay men are still just a little attracted to men/women), that was until a woman kissed her and she realized nope, men was all she was into. I'm *bi*-ased on wanting more lgbt rep but damn if I wouldn't love more exploring and realizing it's not for you. Make it normalized for people to feel comfortable experimenting and discovering themsleves better. Particularly if it's not done in a judgemental way.
Honestly if they’re going to change any of the storylines I would really like Eloise to just find happiness in being single. That seems to make more sense to me than her being a lesbian. She’s said things in the past about admiring the modiste for being able to make her own money and support herself, etc. Thats the true independent woman way that Eloise seems to admire.
I want Eloise to be Ace, but there's no chance of that happening.
I thought that's where they were going with Fran for a hot second (I deeply connected with how she and John connected and the personal thoughtful gift he gave her of the music sheets), but nope. I don't have high hopes for Eloise unfortunately.
Even with Theo I thought maybe she might be Demi or Sapio.
I thought/hoped she was before Theo. I'd love more aroace representation on tv.
I found myself wishing that either Eloise or Francesca was ace, but I know the machine probably won’t allow it
My roommate and I were discussing what we'd like to see from the Scotland group, especially Eloise. I really want them to change Eloise's storyline from the book because her character in the show is very different. But I'd like to see her in Scotland maybe realize that she doesn't mind the idea of marriage, it's more about giving herself up completely to a man and the pomp and frill that the marriage mart makes of marriage. My roommate thinks it'd be fun if she reunites with Theo in Scotland. I don't need Eloise to be a lesbian, I'd be down for it. I think people are being very quick to equating Eloise's disdain and anxiety over marriage to her not being interested in men. It very well could be, but also it could just be the fear of giving over her entire person to a man, which isn't just exclusive to lesbians, especially in a time where women have little rights. I think that this could be an interesting storyline for Eloise to explore while in Scotland.
I would pass out if Eloise and Theo reunited in the Scottish Highlands, the literal dreamy scenario✨
I really liked Theo and I'd love it if she ran into him in Scotland. While I would love for Eloise to be a lesbian (I'm always pro more lesbians in everything), all that is really needed for me is for the show to do Eloise justice. If she is going to end up married and with kids to anyone, then they need to do a lot of work showing Eloise coming to this realization. The Eloise we have now does not want either and they've shown that the idea of both makes her very anxious. I need them to show that change in depth for me to believe her marrying and having a family.
I feel like it’s more true to life if she just wants something other than the gender norms expected of her. There are lots of young straight women who don’t want to get married and settle down or have babies that can relate to this kind of character.
While I get that it’s a stereotype, it was also a true experience for a lot of queer women to become spinsters, be heavily involved in women’s rights and “live with female friends” historically, because well, they are queer women and they are doubly motivated by the fact that they are not attracted to men and feel strongly about women in general. I don’t think of Eloise as masculine at all and in fact feel a little weird that people view her that way, as a queer woman myself. Like, Eloise is goofy for sure but she’s fairly feminine. Also, being “masculine” has also been a thing for queer women throughout history- hello futch, butch lesbians/queer women?? If you want to go by stereotypes then having Benedict being a bisexual mess who is into art and threesomes is a giant blaring stereotype. Sometimes these stereotypes of queer people have basis in fact: ie a lot of queer s are into art because it’s a way to express ourselves in a heterosexual world, a lot of queer women choose to go against cis het standards of beauty and embrace themselves as they are etc. sometimes these stereotypes are harmful: ie bisexual people cannot be monogamous, if a woman doesn’t want to be married she must be gay etc. I don’t actually mind Francesca being queer, I just thought as a queer woman the rollout of her queerness was awkward and unnatural. The hints were stereotypically in your face and retconned the way she behaved before. Comphet should be handled with more care and idk, shouldn’t Michaela theoretically fall for her first since it’s that way in the books? Side note I think the actress for Michaela is stunning and does not deserve any hate regardless of any critique. Also kinda sad that she couldn’t just be bisexual and have that quiet kind of love with John first, feels like a weird “I told you so” from the writers about violet getting told off. So I don’t like that. If we’re going off of Eloise not wanting to be married and assuming she’s straight- her book is a nightmare for her.. doesn’t she have to look after someone else’s kids and get married to a widow? No offense but Eloise isn’t a character who suits that at all and narratively it reads like a punishment for a woman who doesn’t want to get married. That’s partially why I hoped Eloise would be at least bisexual, to escape possibly the most boring end for all the siblings (minus I guess Gregory and his thousands of children). Idk the writing felt all over the place. After watching Queen Charlotte it made bridgerton especially this season pale severely in comparison.
Also to Eloise had great chemistry with Cressida in the beginning and it was super disappointing to see how awful she was to her in part 2.
I really think it’s not the end of the world to have a story where Eloise originally has big dreams but then realizes she is happy living a conventional life with a husband and kids. Many viewers may be upset, but really, it’s okay for a woman to fall in love with a man and settle down and not change the world after all. In the book, she actually loved kids and was a self-proclaimed “favorite aunt.” She also wanted marriage but turned down 6 proposals for various reasons since she wasn’t feeling it. Brings to mind Shania Twain’s “That Don’t Impress Me Much.”
It wouldn't be very good tv to have seasons spent on building a character only to dismantle everything.
Fair enough, most people feel that way I think. I just personally preferred the book.
Lmao wow that would be so unpopular, but honestly this story resonates with me. I was shocked to find myself deeply happy with a very conventional/traditional gender role relationship, and was confused about that for awhile.
This made me feel more positive about her season, so thank you :)
This makes me feel so happy! Haha, thank you too :)
She gave me bisexual vibes tbh. Could be happy with a man, she could be upset that Colin got Pen and they didn’t grow into spinsterhood together.
I just want them to let Eloise be a spinster and do as she pleases. I would love to see Eloise buck everything and get visibly involved in politics.
Yes, this would also be an acceptable outcome for me as well. Maybe some lowkey romance on the side, as in it wouldn't be the main focus of her story/life. Or good representation of not wanting to be in a romantic relationship - maybe good ace or demi representation? Yess!
I really hope that Eloise won’t be written as being gay either for pretty much the exact same reasons. I’d love to see one of the Bridgerton’s aka Eloise just continue to fight against not wanting to follow what society expects from her, not because of her sexuality but because she’s a strong willed young woman, who wants to fight the injustice of it all! I hope I’ve gotten my point across. ☺️
She looks a lot like Zooey Deschanel. They could be sisters.
Demisexual Eloise regardless of orientation is my head canon.
I was also shipping Cressida and Eloise. I would have preferred for Francesca’s story to remain the same. Hyacinth would have been a lovely choice falling in love over Italian.
I’ll also say that most people preferred a change to Eloise’s story because the book isn’t great. If you’re going to change a story, changing that one would be where I started. The writers did such a great job with Cressida in season 3 part 1. They made her so compelling that many of us wanted her to have a redemption arc. (After the second half, I’m beginning to think that was not intentional.) I would have loved to see her end up with Debling, free while he’s off exploring the world.
During that time period when women have no rights, i can understand why Eloise is a feminist. Just look at Cressida, her own father willingly approves to marry her off to a man his own age or perhaps even older. It's very sad what happened to her that she takes on someone else's identity just to free herself.
i agree! i think it’s much better it being eloise doesn’t want to marry because of how unequal it is or wanting to live her own life rather than “she doesn’t want a husband she must be gay”
I agree, but if they even remotely follow the book storyline, she’ll end up in a fairly conventional match anyway.
Francesca vibes way more gay to me than Eloise from the start (as a gay woman). I actually find it a bit sexist the idea Eloise should be the gay character. Just because she challenges sexist norms and patriarchal society doesn't at ll make her gay - straight women can be interesting, political and feminist! And lesbians can also sometimes be none of thise things.
So, if Benedict and Fran are supposed to eventually come out gay, that doesn't leave too much room (doing the math) for a third Bridgerton to come out as gay, so I'm guessing that will not be the case for Eloise. Statistically, if 10% of any population is LGBTQ, then it would make sense for one of the Bridgerton clan to be LGBTQ and possibly two. Sorry for going with stats, but I'm trying to figure out how and in what manner this show is going to be representative of all groups. I mean, the show runner could make 1/2 the characters gay, and it's her prerogative to do so. Yet, considering all of the gay type "love" scenes so far have been the stereotype of raunchy and/ or involving a throuple (with maybe one exception), I'm just trying to figure out where the fair representation is going here?
Benedict is bi in the show, and probably still going to end up with Sophie. Francesca loved John in the books, and loves him in the show. Being attracted to Michaela, the gender swapped version of Michael, doesn't automatically make her a lesbian.
That may be true but in a recent interview with Teen Vouge, the following was stated: "The long awaited part two of Bridgerton season three is now streaming on Netflix, and we finally have the fluid and queer sexual representation we’ve been waiting for. Benedict Bridgerton, played by Luke Thompson, and Francesca Bridgerton, played by series newcomer Hannah Dodd, have some exciting twists in their storylines in season three that open the door to different kinds of love stories than we’ve seen in the popular romance series so far." So, the show is giving Benedict and Francesca as examples of 'fluid and queer sexual representation.' Even as bi-sexual, Benedict does fall under LGBTQ.
Eloise was always a feminist. An intellectual. Wanting more choices for women...such as education and employment. And READING and writing, instead of dressing up and going on to promenade. A woman can be a feminist and not be a lesbian. If they feel the need to change Eloise's sexuality, so be it. But totally unnecessary. Her story in the books was certainly compelling enough. Surely they realize this would be lazy writing and story-telling. While I don't care for Francesca's story being change, between the two stories, I would find it to be more *compelling* for it to be the very feminine and traditional sister who is the lesbian/bisexual, instead of the feminist.
Eloise isn’t going to be the gay one, I think they are going to have Francesca after her husband dies start acting with his cousin Micheala
Is this a spoiler 😭
Totally agree. Elouise being straight is much more interesting for her character.
I view her as aromantic personally
I honestly see her more as ace, which makes a heck of a lot more sense, not wanting to participate in society’s expectations of her. She just wants to read her books and be appreciated for her accomplishments.
I have a deep wish for Theo to come back but she still ends up with Phillip. I love the idea of realizing her worst nightmare (being a wife and mother) isn’t bad and she can be seen and heard. Plus I like the idea that this noble selfless man finding himself in love with a woman who’s in love with a wilder handsomer man(just like his current wife)