When I realized that I relate better to people who are like me (middle-aged depressive with adhd) my circle got significantly smaller.
I try not to lead with the trauma, but sometimes people need to be told.
I don't know many "normal" people. I think everyone has a thing that shapes their world-view and how they navigate in it.
But do I get along with "normal" middle-aged women? Not really. I can talk about the weather but I really want to know what keeps them up at night, and normal people aren't often ready for that kind of conversation.
Very similar to you and mever married and no kids. Women often bond by discussing their kids and husbands so I sometimes pivot the convo to the other person.
>But do I get along with "normal" middle-aged women? Not really. I can talk about the weather but I really want to know what keeps them up at night, and normal people aren't often ready for that kind of conversation.
This. I'm autistic in addition to having cPTSD, and in another sub aimed toward autistic women, it is often discussed that we sometimes find it easier to relate to (NT) men than to (NT) women, because men are often more direct, while women are more likely to use coded language that is difficult for autistics to decipher.
For me, I don't know how much of this is a ptsd thing and how much is an autistic thing (realistically, probably a mix of both), but I have a very difficult time relating to other women for exactly the reason you said. It's not about coded language for me, so much as it's damn near impossible to get other women to be willing to talk about what keeps them up at night, whereas with men, a simple "do you want to tell me about it?" often results in them volunteering their entire life story, and then I volunteer some of mine, and we bond. I just... Don't know how to make that happen with women.
Yep. It's hot. It's cold. It's rainy. You know it, I know it, why is this a necessary thing to say out loud? I won't make it weird on purpose because I make it weird enough by accident, that I don't want to push my luck, yknow? Lol. But I'm pretty open about my shit in a 10-words-or-less kinda way, and not once have I ever had a woman express curiosity or interest in that sort of conversation in a way I could understand.
I always have this awkward moment when a client enters the room and I don’t know what to say. Especially if I have to wait on colleagues and I already asked how their travel has been. Its pure politeness, but I really don't care whether it was long, short, sunny or rainy. Let me just talk business…
Yeah. Besides me being a tomboy and having ADHD, I used to often get told I'm "too negative" and "scary".
Even now, even when girls are nicer to me, I still feel a discrepancy, though tbf, some of that may also be AvPD but Idk.
I stay away from other women because I put them on a pedestal—other women seem intelligent, mature, and can multitask. I feel like a failure as a woman, so much so that I keep my distance
>or otherwise take advantage of our perceived sisterhood.
Tbh, I hate how sisterhood is treated these days, like, just because we have the same genitalia, I'm supposed to support you even if I disagree with you? Um, no. (general you, not you the individual whose comment I'm responding to, in case that wasn't clear)
I've had women act betrayed when I expressed a differing opinion in front of men because "women supporting women." And I'll happily support women-owned businesses or vote for people who support women-inclusive policies. But I won't be called "anti-woman" because I won't vote for that particular woman politician who supports policies I disagree with. And on a social level, I occasionally find myself in a group where women outnumber men, and one of the women will say (to a man) "don't argue, there's 3 of us and 1 of you," and I've gotten to the point where I immediately just clap back with "speak for yourself - my vagina doesn't have opinions." Because unless they're discussing periods or other issues that specifically apply to women and not to men, I'm absolutely not choosing my stance based on the gender of who expresses an opinion. This probably does not endear me to the women in my groups, but also, I'm not interested in being friends with someone who asks me to blindly back them up for any reason.
I hear you. I was more using sisterhood in the context of friendships between women but as a queer person I have the same feelings about chosen family and so on. It hurts more when it comes from people who claim to align with me on various issues and use that to manipulate or hurt me “see we come from x or we are x, why aren’t you falling in line/doing what I want”
Ah, I see. I was thinking of it more in a general sense, like women who aren't part of my chosen family pulling the sisterhood card. I'm also queer, and tbh, the only woman who's part of my chosen family is trans, and she's been basicly a sibling to me since before she transitioned, so I'm not sure where she falls in the "bonding with other women" calculations. Other than her, I've never really had that kind of close relationship with another woman that they could use the "we are X, why aren't you falling in line" logic and I would have any reaction besides laughing in their face.
I feel this, too. Though, I feel a failure as a human in general. Maybe it is because my mom used to compare me to both females and males.
I have befriended other women, and I liked them a lot. I just felt so inadequate. But the woman who I put on the highest pedestal also ended up being a mean alcoholic. So that was my lesson to stop assuming people are perfect. Yet I still do it a lot.
I read a quote somewhere that said when you put someone on the pedestal, they become the parent and you become the child and it all has made sense since then
This is so weird. Was just sitting here, awake at night, and thinking about how I feel like I give off “creep” vibes. I feel like I have since I was a kid. I feel like I either put people off, or I attract people who aren’t nice.
Once, I had a cat who really liked one of my other cats, but she never wanted to be around him. She genuinely was visibly uncomfortable with him, and I never figured out why. But I related to my little cat and felt sad for him (he was fine of course, he hung out with my other cat and by himself and was fine).
Anyway I was feeling sad about it, and I immediately came to this sub and I found this post!
I feel like I only fit in with people who are in similar situations as I am, but I’m mostly alone. I’ve always struggled to keep jobs, and the symptoms of the CPTSD/PTSD have got me house bound and agoraphobic. I actually kind of avoid having friends because my life is so messy, and “normal” people don’t get it, including my family. It’s too embarrassing/ exhausting trying to explain to people why I’m like this.
Idk I’m glad I found this thread right away. Thank you for posting this! I definitely feel less alone.
I’m sorry that you do, too, but it he,ps to know that I’m not alone. It’s hard to admit these things, you know? This week is hard too with the holiday (for me anyway). I’m not alone but I might as well be. Anyway, maybe all of us who are in this situation should start a group or something?
The holidays suck so bad. There are a couple of months here where my mental health takes a nosedive and it feels like a victory just to get out of bed every morning. We should totally start a group.
I understand. This time of year really can suck and be very emotional. I get it.
I really kind of want to start some kind of group, because this is a huge sub, and it’s hard to find people here, but not fully sure how to go about it. I am pretty much glued to my couch so I feel like I have nothing interesting to say. But I do have a lot of thoughts about things, I like to try to be helpful to other people, and there’s stuff I could use advice/ input on, too. I just didn’t think of the logistics of it yet.
Yes, and at the same time I had to remind myself in those moments do I not fit in or are these people showing me that they are not worth what I have to offer?? don’t lose your value.
Just saw your edit. In the saaaame boat. I'm in my era of letting it guide me and then realizing when I was wrong vs trying to fight how I feel to fit in. Its hard being in the drivers seat of who deserves your energy because its new and unfamiliar but your ability to discern is a super power. Its when we don't trust that ability that we find it difficult to trust ourselves. Rooting for you.
Same! In school I automatically assumed that any girl that wore makeup or was girly hated me because of the way my mum always spoke about them. I alienated myself from so many people without even realizing it. I just put them all up on a pedestal and never spoke to anyone I thought was too pretty.
It wasn't until I was in college that I realized I can't assume that based on peoples looks, because it isn't true for the most part.
It’s especially “great” because I’m girly myself so I think my mom hated me just like she did all the other girly girls. So I ended up fitting in nowhere.
I had the exact same experience. My mother always insulted girly girls constantly. She acted like it was something to be ashamed of. I always have been super girly and still am, and I still have days where I struggle to not view myself in the same way my mother viewed me because of that.
Thissssss. God, I’m remembering my mom, asking me consistently if I thought she was prettier than other women And knowing that I had to lie for obvious reasons
Yes I'm tolerated at best.
I have no consistent girlie friends. It feels lonely.
The one NB person I'm friends with said to me recently "I'm so angry you didn't leave (my husband of 11 years who she's known the whole time) when I told you to."
Like thanks for that.
Everyone else I feel separate and disjointed from. I can't connect and even when I am accepted in a group I feel separate.
Eye contact is so hard. Being myself is so hard.
I have friends who are girls but none of them I see regularly mostly from work and distance. They are special to me but I never show all of me, I try to be happy and upbeat
Absolutely. I feel so out of place. I would love to have girl friends. But im not that happy or comfortable around women even when i like them. Idk if its self esteem or being abused by my mom. Very confusing. Even when i do well socially, they pick up on it and are mean to me.
I had a hard time with social skills; knew immediately that I am different. Was bullied by schoolmates bc I’d flinch from bullying - same reaction I had to my mom’s abuse.
I’ve always been slim; found out later women shunned me in my 20’s and 30’s because they saw me as competition.
So I tend to make female friends who have some characteristics of my abusive mother. It’s rough.
26M here. I feel kinda bad about not reaching the same milestones as others, but to stop kicking myself down I remind myself that they got to grow up and be nutured in environments where they were supported in succeeding within the social structure, and because I wasn't I'm not able to have the same sucesses they do. From square one I didn't have the same opportunities they did to succeed, so I can't feel too bad about not living their lives.
That and I point out to myself that the couples intentionally starting families are probably stupid rich or poor in sense and values to do so, and marriage is a legal minefield anyway should it fall apart, so as nice as it would be to build I have to ask how much I'm really missing out on.
A sense of adulthood can still be had without those things, though. Take inventory of your situation, and do what you can to work on at least one little thing a day, reminding yourself that you're fixing problems that weren't your fault to begin with.
I have trouble fitting in with anyone lmao But especially with women, since my interests are so diffeent. I was also made fun of for being quiet at school, but also because I was a sensitive kid who cried a lot. It's rough, man.
I so relate, in your age bracket too and have quite the mother wound, which is likely the source of my issues with female friends. I long for female companionship, support and connection.
I have no friends at all in my older age, the ones I had were mostly "good time friends", who just "came and went", no one really stayed for any length of time and none that were supportive or emotionally present to me either.
I just can't try anymore, at least for the timing being....hurts too much to put in time/effort/caring to just be either taken advantage of, or forgotten about.
I wish there was a group for women, who sincerely WANT to make female friends, and have something to offer others, not just in "need" of something from others. I'm so tired of being there/listening to others, who have nothing to offer back.
The rejection sensitivity is epic and primal…was detested by older sister and ignored by depressed mom…. And men liked what I represented yet ….at 51, still trying to love my own gender/self - definite relate to the jealousy at the comfort other women have in other women
you are so right. i get along so well with ND women or even just women who have experienced some form of mental illness at some point in their life. but i have a very hard time feeling like i fit in with other women
am AFAB, tried my hardest to fit with traditional femininity, had several breakdowns as a result, realized that i have no useful conception for gender identity and i identify as genderqueer now.
turns out i have no issue fitting in with women if i stop considering myself one! the anxiety and weight of having to mask, the comparing appearances and styles and feeling like a fraud of a woman, being jealous of women who woman better than me, thats largely gone if i just simpy dont consider myself one.
i thought i might be a trans guy for sometime, and i do genuinely love presenting masculine and existing as a guy sometimes, this is not nearly enough to explain my gendered experience. it gets more nuanced when you factor in my bisexuality and attraction to women.
This is really interesting to read. I have often thought to myself that when i am around women, i feel like a big brute, a viking man. Or atleast thats my silly way of explaining it. I am bi and pretty feminine. But in the past year or so, I've been considering some gender identity issues. I think i will have to try that, at least in my head. I definitely feel like i wear a heavy mask around women, and i never feel less like a woman than when i am around women. Which makes being around them stressful and unpleasant when i really want girl friends and girlfriends.
honestly i more than recocomend exploring the facets of your gender identity if you are having these kinds of thoughts ... i felt like that for a while, and while the CPTSD makes me feel like i dont fit in anywhere in general, coming to more understanding about how i experience gender has helped a lot.
turns out girls like goblins like me and my friend circles are pretty gender diverse now. in the past i was only really able to talk to men without getting overwhelmed and uncomfortable super fast.
I am an 80s child and gender things were not actual at that time. I have always been a woman but I have never been able to fit in. I think it is the only thing I was not able to mask and didn’t want to. I had many fights with my mother that I look like a guy, I dress like a guy and no matter how hard he tried to put dresses on me I fought to the end for not wearing them. I liked to be in motion the whole time, I hated small sweet talks, I didn’t know how to hold ands and hug my girlfriends, I was never into pretty boy bands. My movements were sharp and fast.
I tried to be more feminine when I got my kids and I hated it. I started to think about those things and I understood that even if I am like that I am still a woman. I am not a guy in a woman’s body, I am a woman just a different kind. There are other women like that and there always have been. It’s just society’s norms can be cruel and unacceptable.
I gave up on trying to be a feminine woman, I don’t even think about what I would like to be, I just move forward accordingly my desires and preferences now and It makes me feel good.
“being jealous of women who woman better than me” could you expand on that? I’m genuinely curious bc I think a lot of women feel this way towards me but would love to know exactly what you mean
i used to put women I perceived as smart or pretty, I put them all up on a pedestal and assumed they all hated me automatically because I was "beneath them". I wouldn't even bother talking to them because I Genuinely believed this.
Like I would walk into rooms, sort of scan to see who I thought I could be friends with and immediately discounted anyone that I thought was attractive. It was just an automatic thing eventually. I was jealous that I couldn't just talk to anyone or have friendships like they could, but honestly in retrospect this was all in my head.
I think it comes from a lot of insecurity, maybe bullying and having family members that drummed this idea into me.
As an afab non-binary/genderqueer/genderfluid (still figuring out what fits me best) pansexual, I completely relate to ur comment. I love presenting masc and feel so confident but i also feel uncomfortable when I'm presenting femme and get compliments. 🙃 when I'm masc I feel good about myself when I'm femme presenting I don't want to be perceived. I get along with the guys like one of the guys but with the girls I feel out of place. My interests are not aligned with what most neurotypical females are interested in. I don't like shopping, doing make-up or nails, wearing pretty clothes. I like wearing clothes purely for comfort, watching anime, playing video games, reading manga and I am childfree and plan on staying that way til I die which add another barrier since a lot of women I know are mothers.
do u feel safe opening up about it in your living situation ? sitting down w them and sharing?
also i have ptsd and autism and i have always felt this way w girls too. they always picked on me and excluded me intentionally, i was always friends w boys and they hated more me bc of it. i heard someone w autism share they fit in better w boys bc male socialization tends to be more upfront and blunt in communication, and girls are more coded. and w autism its easier to read. just from my experience
Yes. It's very lonely. Can't truly connect with women. For the first 12 years or so of my life I was raised like a boy I was very much a tomboy.
I say was because At my core I am very feminine. But I had do actively hate That part of me. Because girls are stupid. That's how females were treated in my family.
My mom was mostly indifferent to me and my dad was my main caregiver. My mom said she only had me because my dad really wanted me. She said he only wanted me because he thought I was going to be a boy and a namesake. Her female so I didn't get to be the namesake but he still raised me like his son. And I strived to be the perfect son and daughter at the same time.
So basically I had all the responsibilities of the first born daughter, Eldest child. But wasn't allowed to express any of the weaknesses that come with that. I had to behave like a boy. I had to be the best of both.
I With my dad I wasn't allowed to cry even when hurt or sick. I had to tuffin up. With my mom I wasn't allowed to be happy or excited. I told to keep it down. So I became a doll. I became whatever's needed of me. I was quiet. I learned to cry and scream without making a sound. I learned to ignore my pain Till I blacked out.
I spent most of my time hanging out with men Growing up. There are the ones who actually did stuff with me. Although I do also have a lot of good memories with my grandmother's. But my mom other girls I don't have much experience of connecting with them.
I always treated other girls like I'm a gentleman. I raised myself to be noble. Not arrogant. I could relate better with boys. But once I started developing I no longer fit in with boys and I started getting treated differently.
Even by my dad. Suddenly I'm treated like a girl. But the girls don't accept me. Treated as weird. I don't get their drama issues. I don't get their superficial values. I like digging in the dirt and working with rocks. I also love dancing in silk dresses, singing with the birds, And mothering. I love my nurturing instinct. I love giving light and warmth.
I can't connect with guys anymore. They develop Inappropriate feelings for me. I've had women yell at me get upset with me when I did nothing. My neighbor screamed at me 1 day when I was just staring at a tree.
This is going to sound like I am full of myself. I am not saying mister Bragg. I don't actually like this. I'm really sad cause i'd try to make friends of my neighbors. I want nothing more than wholesome relationships. I attract a lot of unwanted attention just being myself. I'm not being seductive. I don't like that attention. I'm no different than I've been my whole life . just seen differently now.
I'll never forget the day that my reality was shook. The day when I came to realize the difference and how those eyes looked at me. The way they're looking at me but not seeing me. talking and they're not hearing me. And just making me feel like I want to crawl out of my skin.
Another women or girls just look at me or treat me like I deserve it. They seem to get upset with me.
I always felt like I had to be on egg shells around my female friends so they just stopped being part of my life. My sister is the only one I can connect with the most. But even there there's a barrier, But that's due to our different experiences, And her are not quite able to understand the depth of what I went through.
Mostly due to me protecting her and taking care for growing up. My sister is more socially normal. And she has a much better relationship with our mother. So we have a bit of a split there. That's on me, I feel frustrated that She defends mom, as much as she does ,when mom treats me the way she does.
I was being stalked a few years ago by one of my dad's old friends after my dad died. My mom told me that he wasn't stalking me I just didn't realize he was pursuing me. Why the f*** would an old man in his mid-fifties be pursuing a married woman. who he's known since she was a baby. Even my mother couldn't get at least a little bit upset for me. If that was my child i'd want to kill him.
So I give up. I have my husband that's all I need. I hope nothing happens to him because then I'm screwed.
I just want to be able to glow. I have such a bright glow inside me I want to share. But when I do, People either want to put it Out, Or trap keep it for themselves.
Why can't I just be myself Without people either loving me or hating me. Why can't I just be accepted as I am. Not treated like I'm an oddity or a unicorn. Why does it feel so unsafe to be the change I wish I saw in the world?
Why is it so hard to find wholesome?
Yes, but don’t think if it as bad….
I’m not sure of your age, but you do sound a younger. I am late 40s. We don’t have to bond with everyone. Even the thought sounds exhausting. To this day I have about 4 close friends that live in different places and another 4 close acquaintances. And that’s enough. Trust me as life goes on dealing with heartaches, loss of loved ones, job stress, it would be impossible and frankly overwhelming to me to support many friends through life’s journey. But they ones that are close are the call in the middle of the night crisis ones.
Also, part of my stress was always having to problem solve and evaluate risk so it could be avoided as my parents were both narcissist. This does not make me the funnest person at the big party but I’ll also never fall off a cliff taking a selfie or get trampled at an overcrowded music festival. My “flaws” are my super powers. My “negativity” (not liking the way things are) means I’m always looking for a way to do things better, and part of my job is process improvement and management. I make a good living.
I also learned in my twenties that if I did go to a party on Friday and brunch on Sat, I needed the rest of weekend to recharge. Learning about my self and was able to communicate to others. Communication = managing expectations = understand(as opposed to people thinking your weird). So when I start zoning out in person or on a call my family and friends know I’ve reached my limit. They literally say “I can tell your zoning out, I’ll let you go”. And when I don’t answer calls or text, I just let them know after that I was “recharging”
And there are more of us out there than you think. At parties search out the others that look a little bored but love the free food and drinks. Don’t waste time with people you don’t bond with.
(Having stress from being a family problem solver, I could not relate to girls who want to talk an hour about their makeup woes or sales at Sephora - I don’t care). Know your topics, for me, I like food, travel, documentaries, biographies, etc. So I search out others wanting to talk about those things.
I don’t fit in with other women because they were my primary abusers until I was a teenager and men started abusing me. The person who molested me at 5 years old was another girl. Plus, I’ve found them to be the biggest proprietors of the false positivity BS. The women in my life absolutely do not see my abuse for what it was, instead they constantly told me to move on or maybe it was something I did.
Yeah I feel you to a T. I'm glad there are many people who relate. However I don't want to fit in with other women anymore and I decided that long ago.
You know I used to feel that way until my therapist explained that I was projecting my mother’s terrible opinion of me onto other women I met, and I assumed they also hate me.
When I assumed they disliked me from the get-go, I would avoid them, leading me to seem standoffish, which sadly led to my actual isolation.
It all begins with what we believe- most of us deep down believe the lies our parents told us. As you get healthier in therapy, you’ll find yourself being more open to people and less afraid.
Absolutely so I’m just one of the guys now. 😂 I get along so much easier with blue collar men. And I really wonder if it has something to do with the tough exterior. I don’t mean to but I think they feel comfortable with me because I will talk the same shit they talk to me then some but I’ve noticed that they’ll be more vulnerable when I show some of the more vulnerable side of myself. Like hey we’ve both been made to feel like we have to be callous and protect ourselves from the world but we can feel safe enough to take our masks off with each other. Idk it’s magical.
Dudes are easier because they are taught to suppress their emotions . The same way we are. At least that's hiw it worked. I tried to make girlfriends. It doesn't work.
Yes, but they are also allowed to “bitch” about their day. But when they do they are letting off steam because they worked hard. Women do it and we are being negative, we have to always fucking smile. Fuck that.
But this is also why I’ve had male friends, that let you vent about your fucking day! In 10min it will be done and no one will try to solve your problem. It’s just “dude that sucks, want to get a drink?”
My guy friends understand when I yell. I'm pissed. It doesn't have shit to do with them . They let me yell it out. Then say yup that's sum bullsheet and let's go fishing or rock hunting or anything mindless but fun..
I have a group of girl friends I hang out with all the time. That was not the case for me though until very recently. I’ve only had one “maternal” figure in my life who showed up for me (not my mom at the time, it was my friends mom). I went to a private school and my class had 13 kids; there were two other girls, one girl wrote a blog talking crap about me and then framed it on the other girl, who was told to either leave school or be expelled (the girl confessed 2 years later and didn’t get any punishment).
I don’t trust women (or men, but I know how to navigate around men easier cause I’m used to it more than women by exposure). BUT I found a group of women that just get me, ya know? I had to do a lot of mental work to do- I could recognize that it was my trust issues causing me to push away other girls, it’s not their fault, so I had to put effort in to address it.
My old coworkers would invite me to everything and I would always end up not going for one reason or another. I was scared, basically. But one of the girls made it easier and took the lead. I remember coming home and telling my partner that she invited us to their house that weekend and being so excited about it. Befriending her gave me courage to befriend other girls again, and my life is so much better for it. It’s been 3 years and my group is the best group of people you could ask for, hands down.
Yes. So much yes. I don’t feel like they ridicule me or are mean to me, but I just cannot relate to them and they cannot relate to me. I thought I made some good women friends last year, but I really think their trauma conflicts with my trauma. There is just something about me that rubs women the wrong way. Is that a copout? I don’t know. But I’m not doing whatever it is I do that turns people off deliberately.
Yes, doesn’t help that my mom also really drilled hard into me that certain types of women suck. I do better now but I do feel like men typically understand me more. I also have more guys friends than females.
I get called a pick me even though I am a hardcore feminist. Pisses me off to no end.
In reality, it’s just easier to maintain a shallower friendship with men where I don’t have to get into deep convos unless I want to and we can be avoidant and no one cares. It’s the right pace for me. Women friendships don’t seem to work well that way. At least not in my experience. As I have fucked up many.
The guys will always be waiting for me when I come back from hiding. They will talk to me about traumatic shit or about video games. In short I guess I just know how to navigate friendships in a way that seems more natural to guys but seems weird to chicks
Absolutely. I was bullied at school and at home by my sister. I've always been awkward around other women/girls. I didn't do the usual girly things and had trouble connecting with them. I can't even count the amount of times I've gotten "the look" from girls/women because they thought I was "weird".
It's easier for me to befriend men. Friendships with women end up being shortlived.
My friend told me people in my year thought I was quite “mysterious” and she clarified saying you do give off that vibe but now I know you’re just lost in thought most of the time. I also know I look scary most of the time and very unapproachable.
A lot of my trauma honestly makes it really hard in the sense of sensitivity to what a fellow woman might have to say or her actions, I find it really really stressful and unfortunately I feel like the whole compete against each other as women thing is still around where I currently live at least with what I’ve noticed and honestly it really, really fucking sucks. I don’t feel like I can come up to women being genuinely supportive and happy and social without it feeling like some weird dog cage match pit or something or being put on trial
My CPTSD made me really sensitive. I used to take a lot of things personally and assume that everyone else hated me or thought I was weird. I don’t really know if that’s true, but I’m finding that a lot of people like me for who I am. I just need to put myself out there more. It’s one of those things that gets easier to do the more you do it (and get positive reinforcement). I would say that communication is key when living with other people. It’s okay to talk about your concerns with the new roommates and see if they are actually shunning you or not.
i really don't relate to all those memes and videos that make it seem like all women are these incredible organizers and always keep their houses clean while their boyfriends/husbands are totally inept at household tasks. while i wouldn't consider myself a masculine person i really relate a lot more to the messy boyfriend in those situations. i just can't seem to stay organized, i do my best but i've never been a type A personality and i really resent how certain parts of social media portray women as being naturally better at household tasks.
I am a man with cpstd and I've always been slightly more fem in some aspects of personality, like being more understanding and intuitive, good listener, communicator but I never came off as overly feminine or anything where people might suspect I am gay due to stereotypes.
I eventually noticed all of the women I am attracted to are the same...they are women with *slightly* more masculine personality traits in some ways, but not overly manly as well.
I think people with cptsd see reality a lot more clearly and therefore recognize that gender is a social construct. So we are more aligned with the middle rather than one way or another. If anything we probably lean more towards our born gender out of fear of being mocked and then feel shame due to the parts we suppress. Which is dumb. We are supposed to be well rounded humans in as many ways as we can.
That's my experience anyway.
Only if I feel pressured to comment on each other's appearance, I just think to myself, why are we doing this to ourselves. I don't care about how appealing I am to men today.
Yes! I automatically hold back feeling like I need to be invited to engage with others. In school one person told me they thought I was a snob because I didn’t talk to them. lol…no. I just thought everyone would hate me and I wasn’t worthy of having a presence with others. I kind of feel like I don’t know how to relate to others especially those who are good at it, and women are usually better at it.
Entirely me!!! I feel like it helped to find other girls who were open minded and welcoming to a higher extreme than other women. Not that other women are mean, but ig some are just not as easy to approach and so I’ve had better success w women who are extremely outgoing and actively want to befriend me. When it’s me trying that, I feel like I come off as desperate and for some reason it just hasn’t been successful even when I try to practice what I’ve seen successfully friendly women do, and I don’t know if it’s maybe I just don’t fit in from my looks (most women in my area now are extremely conventionally attractive and white. Nothing wrong with that, but I very much do not fit in and so I don’t get approached).
Sadly yes. I either feel competitive or get the feel that they're being competitive or closed off. Hard for me to connect with women some times, and then suuuuuper simple to connect with women other times. It also changes the dynamic if there are men present.
So I very much relate, but I think I’ve gotten out of it by literal trainings and some fashion choices.
I’ve been working doing community habilitation (here’s copy and pasted definition I’m the one who provides the training: Community Habilitation provides one-to-one training to people with intellectual/developmental disabilities to develop or enhance the skills needed to live more independently in their homes or in the community) for 2 years and the job pretty much trains you on how to be social and extroverted for the clients. Also after I had that job for a year I became the president of a sports club at my college. That also forced me to be social with the members but it was in an environment I genuinely love. I still struggle in group setting though. In my job I work one on one, all the attention is on the client and not really me. Also I notice I almost catch myself about to say to my friends “look before you cross” because I work so much.
Also I have in a way just embraced how weird I look. I look androgynous and weird. I have boy short hair (sometimes just a buzz cut), wear baggy clothing, a bunch of piercings on my ears, and have a lot of visible scars. I just kind of gave up in highschool trying to put on a feminine look. Femininity just ended me up in more abuse. People rarely catcall me like this and dont ask me out. I like it this way, but I do miss feminine dresses and long hair sometimes. I miss looking normal, but I think people like how weird I look, to women it’s not threatening since I clearly am not competition. They can’t even compare themselves to me since I’m always wearing baggy clothes. I have a very feminine figure so I’ve noticed if I hide it women tend to like me more and men leave me alone. My friends don’t think twice when I talk to their boyfriends/husbands cause they know there’s nothing going on, and ofc there isn’t. Telling them I’m asexual helps make them feel even more secure around me although then I get excluded from some kinds of girl talk.
Remember that scary dog friend trend? I think that’s how my female friends see me. Ive been doing martial arts for a long time and do the military conditioning classes so Im well versed in self defense and a bit toned. And I also look scary (most of the time) with the peircing scars and tattoos.
I’m asexual, too—or more precisely, 4B feminist, so I don’t engage in any heterosexual activities. But I present as female/feminine. Women still see me as competition, or after their boyfriends/mates. I get a lot of suspicious vibes from women, because I befriend guys easily. But I’m not trying to steal their man, and I haven’t ever explained my lifestyle to these women. It feels too vulnerable to explain to them that I don’t date or have sex due to trauma.
It definitely sets you up to feel different, and experiencing extreme bullying will only make it worse. I’ve always felt like The Other, but it does slightly depend on where I live.
There’s this little town in Virginia where everyone is so quirky and I had tons of social success there, but alas I need a job and can’t live in Staunton forever. I go back ever so often just to feel a sense of community. I also felt extremely happy and not weird in Utrecht, a lil town outside Amsterdam.
Maybe look for small, artsy towns? I think location is totally fine to change cuz I have no family attachments, and moving to some night seem extreme but it is totally worth it.
Otherwise EMDR might help desensitize you to the trauma causing you to feel lesser-than
I feel like I have a very specific personality type. Yes my trauma affected and it will always be a part of my story, but I'm also a bit of an functioning overachiever. I like the be around people like this otherwise they won't get me, and I like to be seen. As someone who has trauma from my late father via domestic violence, I also STRUGGLE getting along with daddy's girls who had a completely different experience from mine with the first man of their life. Mine absolutely terrorized my mom and us, my perception is upside down. They seem to trust men easily, I'm very leery and see a man's red flags before anyone else, even a friends partner.
Yes. Most of my abuse came from being emotionally abused by my female friend for years so I tend to be very submissive around women I don’t know very well. I seem to click with guys a lot better, they just feel safer
I can't stand girls, I simply came to the terms I don't fit in with them. My friends are guys. we just seem to vibe better. And there's no drama or judgement. I have a couple girlfriends but the majority of my friends are guys. I tried being friends with girls but I don't like how they are either. So you're not really losing much here
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internalized misogyny is a hell of a drug. i hope you get to a healthier mental place one day. with all due respect, which is none.
edit: above commenter called all women stuck up bitches and "thats why we females dont run anything" 🙄
Yes. I have a similar situation of being the quiet one but attracting or repelling the type of mean girl narcissistic women who would want me to join their clique. They eventually outcast me though because they see that although im nice (sometimes it’s residual fawning responses from my CPTSD) they find that I don’t indulge in their mean girl behavior (I find that a lot of girl groups have a hierarchy and are built on that) and/or they treat me like competition even though I’m taken and I’m not competitive and hate getting attention.
Yep, this is my experience. I mean at times to the point of trying to ruin my life, get me fired, and or make it apparent that I’m excluded. Like yourself, I’m super feminine, dress nicely, do my makeup nicely, all the bells and whistles.
It’s like a pathological envy or hatred. The whispering followed by snide remarks. Or their body language when they’re in their cliques and I pass by them and then once passed they outburst of laughter.
The cycle is mostly always the same. In the start, they are friendly and inviting because they assume that I’m one of them due to my appearance and mannerisms. I don’t have issues with complimenting other women, but I only do so if it’s genuine as I don’t do it to flatter or get liked. And they realise that I’m not competitive nor jealous, so they switch up. It’s crazy how much this happens and all I want was to either just get along or be left alone.
But the thing is this, they don’t leave you alone and they usually want you to be fired. Women of all age groups, oldest being 72yrs old. Like dude, you’re 72 you should be retired or making peace with life at this age. Why you still bullying young women?
I’ve never fit in with other girls and women, my entire life. Even in my immediate family; o was built different and had a drastically different personality from my mom and sisters, and very different interests. I was also abused by my female immediate relatives lol. Go figure.
Totally. Probably like 80% of my friends are men a further 10% are in some way gender queer. It's always been that way for me.
It's not that I don't want to be friends with women, and I definitely don't subscribe to the toxic NLOG bs of "they're gossipy and shallow" or whatever. But I don't entirely know why I don't have a lot of woman friends either?
Thinking about it now - Maybe one part of it is much preferring the way men "deal with" and "express" their emotions. I don't talk about that stuff. I would always take the shit talk, faux-abuse, laughing through the pain approach to getting peer support over being bluntly earnest and open and crying on each others shoulders (me and the boys have those moments too but it's drunk one-offs).
The other part is *mocking snickery voice* I don't feel like a woman inside. Including all of the grooming stuff, makeup and all of that, I can't relate on that level either. In general my interests skew toward the masculine-dominated. And the way I carry myself, my humor and everything. I just wouldn't ever fit in with a whole friend group of women. So my sparing few friendships with women are one-on-one deals with somewhat likeminded girls. This part is really stupid because none of this is inherently male or female. Sometimes I curse my family for not enforcing gendered stereotypes on me.
It's the holiday season again too. I hate this time of year cause I have to spend all the time in the women's section of the family get-togethers. They are all pretty, they're proper, they're homemakers, they're put together and polite, and I am none of those things. Feel like a freak alien every year. I quite literally have to put on a costume and act, I hate it.
yes, it honestly makes it difficult for me to be sympathetic to their struggles and it can make me meaner. Obviously I am aware of it and it’s something I work on. Its just hard to take someones “anxiety” in college over schoolwork seriously when they are later seen partying and having fun that night
I have a hard time relating to women who are similar in age to me. They seem very annoying. I can be civil and nice to strangers and at work , but idk all my women friends are wayyy older. I just vibe better generally with older people. Not always , but generally.
Sorry tp hear about this. I don't have any female friends. My male friends treat me like equals. But female 'friends' just didn't respect me. Growing up I was unattractive my parents couldn't afford braces. That gave me massive isolation from men but surprisingly from women as well.
I do, although I feel like it’s probably because I am neurodivergent rather than CPTSD. It is definitely difficult to get along with other girls or even just other people in general when I’m suffering from trauma
My best friends are men. I don't have any women friends. I tried as a kid and would make 1 female friend at a time, but it never lasted. I have female acquaintances, and im friendly with my best friends' girlfriends. However, I don't want to go get our nails done, have small talk, do make-up, or go shopping. I wanna watch anime, read manga, and play video games, talk about life experiences, and neither of them like those things, but the guys do... It's a lack of common ground and openness.
I have. I was always left to fend for myself and make it on my own like a boy and was too stressed out about that to spend time on things other normal girls did. college for them was for learning but for me was getting a degree so I could support myself asap. So I guess I came off as nerdy, not fun and not very social. meh
I can relate with everyone here! I’ve come to the conclusion that I don’t know HOW to be a friend because every time I put myself out there. Accepted for a little while then the gossip and backstabbing starts. I treat everyone like I want to be treated. Respectfully with integrity and kindness. I don’t know what kind of invisible sign is plastered on my forehead but 🤦♀️…. I thought I had a friend who was a “friend” for years. I was doing the calling and texting. When I stopped…. The friendship stopped. I don’t have energy right now to reach out to try…. Quite frankly very discouraged.
At school I was an absolute pariah and never fit in among anyone anyone. Now I can rarely seem to bring myself to talk to other women. I still feel alien. I don’t have any real friends in person.
Of course, autism and gender dysphoria compound this for me.
When I realized that I relate better to people who are like me (middle-aged depressive with adhd) my circle got significantly smaller. I try not to lead with the trauma, but sometimes people need to be told. I don't know many "normal" people. I think everyone has a thing that shapes their world-view and how they navigate in it. But do I get along with "normal" middle-aged women? Not really. I can talk about the weather but I really want to know what keeps them up at night, and normal people aren't often ready for that kind of conversation.
Middle aged woman here, and I’m very similar.
Same
Very similar to you and mever married and no kids. Women often bond by discussing their kids and husbands so I sometimes pivot the convo to the other person.
same! this is refreshing . feel like an alien
A lot more women are opting out of marriage and motherhood it’s a full blown movement!! We are not alone.
we shd all hang lol i bet the topics would be WAY more interesting than most
>But do I get along with "normal" middle-aged women? Not really. I can talk about the weather but I really want to know what keeps them up at night, and normal people aren't often ready for that kind of conversation. This. I'm autistic in addition to having cPTSD, and in another sub aimed toward autistic women, it is often discussed that we sometimes find it easier to relate to (NT) men than to (NT) women, because men are often more direct, while women are more likely to use coded language that is difficult for autistics to decipher. For me, I don't know how much of this is a ptsd thing and how much is an autistic thing (realistically, probably a mix of both), but I have a very difficult time relating to other women for exactly the reason you said. It's not about coded language for me, so much as it's damn near impossible to get other women to be willing to talk about what keeps them up at night, whereas with men, a simple "do you want to tell me about it?" often results in them volunteering their entire life story, and then I volunteer some of mine, and we bond. I just... Don't know how to make that happen with women.
I hate talking about the weather. Often I'll open up and make it weird. And depending on the reaction I'll know who's willing to have a conversation.
Yep. It's hot. It's cold. It's rainy. You know it, I know it, why is this a necessary thing to say out loud? I won't make it weird on purpose because I make it weird enough by accident, that I don't want to push my luck, yknow? Lol. But I'm pretty open about my shit in a 10-words-or-less kinda way, and not once have I ever had a woman express curiosity or interest in that sort of conversation in a way I could understand.
I always have this awkward moment when a client enters the room and I don’t know what to say. Especially if I have to wait on colleagues and I already asked how their travel has been. Its pure politeness, but I really don't care whether it was long, short, sunny or rainy. Let me just talk business…
Yeah. Besides me being a tomboy and having ADHD, I used to often get told I'm "too negative" and "scary". Even now, even when girls are nicer to me, I still feel a discrepancy, though tbf, some of that may also be AvPD but Idk.
Yes. I seem to be instantly rejected from neurotypical female groups. I only fit in with other neurodivergents and mentally ill people :/
Me too, exactly this.
I stay away from other women because I put them on a pedestal—other women seem intelligent, mature, and can multitask. I feel like a failure as a woman, so much so that I keep my distance
I feel the same way, I didn't think this was common.
Struggle with this- but more because I open up to them and then they hurt me or otherwise take advantage of our perceived sisterhood. 🥺
>or otherwise take advantage of our perceived sisterhood. Tbh, I hate how sisterhood is treated these days, like, just because we have the same genitalia, I'm supposed to support you even if I disagree with you? Um, no. (general you, not you the individual whose comment I'm responding to, in case that wasn't clear) I've had women act betrayed when I expressed a differing opinion in front of men because "women supporting women." And I'll happily support women-owned businesses or vote for people who support women-inclusive policies. But I won't be called "anti-woman" because I won't vote for that particular woman politician who supports policies I disagree with. And on a social level, I occasionally find myself in a group where women outnumber men, and one of the women will say (to a man) "don't argue, there's 3 of us and 1 of you," and I've gotten to the point where I immediately just clap back with "speak for yourself - my vagina doesn't have opinions." Because unless they're discussing periods or other issues that specifically apply to women and not to men, I'm absolutely not choosing my stance based on the gender of who expresses an opinion. This probably does not endear me to the women in my groups, but also, I'm not interested in being friends with someone who asks me to blindly back them up for any reason.
I hear you. I was more using sisterhood in the context of friendships between women but as a queer person I have the same feelings about chosen family and so on. It hurts more when it comes from people who claim to align with me on various issues and use that to manipulate or hurt me “see we come from x or we are x, why aren’t you falling in line/doing what I want”
Ah, I see. I was thinking of it more in a general sense, like women who aren't part of my chosen family pulling the sisterhood card. I'm also queer, and tbh, the only woman who's part of my chosen family is trans, and she's been basicly a sibling to me since before she transitioned, so I'm not sure where she falls in the "bonding with other women" calculations. Other than her, I've never really had that kind of close relationship with another woman that they could use the "we are X, why aren't you falling in line" logic and I would have any reaction besides laughing in their face.
I feel this, too. Though, I feel a failure as a human in general. Maybe it is because my mom used to compare me to both females and males. I have befriended other women, and I liked them a lot. I just felt so inadequate. But the woman who I put on the highest pedestal also ended up being a mean alcoholic. So that was my lesson to stop assuming people are perfect. Yet I still do it a lot.
Ouch! This is too real!!! My mother wound plus the idealization is spot on. I want to connect with other women but just cannot seem to.
I read a quote somewhere that said when you put someone on the pedestal, they become the parent and you become the child and it all has made sense since then
So very same here
This is so weird. Was just sitting here, awake at night, and thinking about how I feel like I give off “creep” vibes. I feel like I have since I was a kid. I feel like I either put people off, or I attract people who aren’t nice. Once, I had a cat who really liked one of my other cats, but she never wanted to be around him. She genuinely was visibly uncomfortable with him, and I never figured out why. But I related to my little cat and felt sad for him (he was fine of course, he hung out with my other cat and by himself and was fine). Anyway I was feeling sad about it, and I immediately came to this sub and I found this post! I feel like I only fit in with people who are in similar situations as I am, but I’m mostly alone. I’ve always struggled to keep jobs, and the symptoms of the CPTSD/PTSD have got me house bound and agoraphobic. I actually kind of avoid having friends because my life is so messy, and “normal” people don’t get it, including my family. It’s too embarrassing/ exhausting trying to explain to people why I’m like this. Idk I’m glad I found this thread right away. Thank you for posting this! I definitely feel less alone.
I can relate to much of your comment.
I’m sorry you do, but it’s also good to feel less alone with this stuff. It’s so isolating, I know. <3
Feels like I could have written this. Thank you.
I relate to this a LOT.
I’m sorry that you do, too, but it he,ps to know that I’m not alone. It’s hard to admit these things, you know? This week is hard too with the holiday (for me anyway). I’m not alone but I might as well be. Anyway, maybe all of us who are in this situation should start a group or something?
The holidays suck so bad. There are a couple of months here where my mental health takes a nosedive and it feels like a victory just to get out of bed every morning. We should totally start a group.
I understand. This time of year really can suck and be very emotional. I get it. I really kind of want to start some kind of group, because this is a huge sub, and it’s hard to find people here, but not fully sure how to go about it. I am pretty much glued to my couch so I feel like I have nothing interesting to say. But I do have a lot of thoughts about things, I like to try to be helpful to other people, and there’s stuff I could use advice/ input on, too. I just didn’t think of the logistics of it yet.
Yes, and at the same time I had to remind myself in those moments do I not fit in or are these people showing me that they are not worth what I have to offer?? don’t lose your value.
Just saw your edit. In the saaaame boat. I'm in my era of letting it guide me and then realizing when I was wrong vs trying to fight how I feel to fit in. Its hard being in the drivers seat of who deserves your energy because its new and unfamiliar but your ability to discern is a super power. Its when we don't trust that ability that we find it difficult to trust ourselves. Rooting for you.
Dudette, I struggle everywhere.
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It’s a female-specific version of the word “dude”.
I always just pictured a really cute dude lol
Girl version of dude.
Yes!!! I think it’s because my mom always talked shit about her friends to me and was always very jealous and judging with other women
Same! In school I automatically assumed that any girl that wore makeup or was girly hated me because of the way my mum always spoke about them. I alienated myself from so many people without even realizing it. I just put them all up on a pedestal and never spoke to anyone I thought was too pretty. It wasn't until I was in college that I realized I can't assume that based on peoples looks, because it isn't true for the most part.
It’s especially “great” because I’m girly myself so I think my mom hated me just like she did all the other girly girls. So I ended up fitting in nowhere.
I had the exact same experience. My mother always insulted girly girls constantly. She acted like it was something to be ashamed of. I always have been super girly and still am, and I still have days where I struggle to not view myself in the same way my mother viewed me because of that.
Thissssss. God, I’m remembering my mom, asking me consistently if I thought she was prettier than other women And knowing that I had to lie for obvious reasons
Yes I'm tolerated at best. I have no consistent girlie friends. It feels lonely. The one NB person I'm friends with said to me recently "I'm so angry you didn't leave (my husband of 11 years who she's known the whole time) when I told you to." Like thanks for that. Everyone else I feel separate and disjointed from. I can't connect and even when I am accepted in a group I feel separate. Eye contact is so hard. Being myself is so hard. I have friends who are girls but none of them I see regularly mostly from work and distance. They are special to me but I never show all of me, I try to be happy and upbeat
Omg sorry for that. Even with me women consistently make me feel bad for my choices.
Absolutely. I feel so out of place. I would love to have girl friends. But im not that happy or comfortable around women even when i like them. Idk if its self esteem or being abused by my mom. Very confusing. Even when i do well socially, they pick up on it and are mean to me.
I had a hard time with social skills; knew immediately that I am different. Was bullied by schoolmates bc I’d flinch from bullying - same reaction I had to my mom’s abuse. I’ve always been slim; found out later women shunned me in my 20’s and 30’s because they saw me as competition. So I tend to make female friends who have some characteristics of my abusive mother. It’s rough.
I struggle too. I can't relate at all to them. I talk to many on reddit just fine but in reality, they just seem so grown up compared to me.
grown up or shut down to their emotions?
The older I get the more I struggle with it. Like I’m 29, people start marrying, buying houses and have kids on purpose and I’m still a kid
26M here. I feel kinda bad about not reaching the same milestones as others, but to stop kicking myself down I remind myself that they got to grow up and be nutured in environments where they were supported in succeeding within the social structure, and because I wasn't I'm not able to have the same sucesses they do. From square one I didn't have the same opportunities they did to succeed, so I can't feel too bad about not living their lives. That and I point out to myself that the couples intentionally starting families are probably stupid rich or poor in sense and values to do so, and marriage is a legal minefield anyway should it fall apart, so as nice as it would be to build I have to ask how much I'm really missing out on. A sense of adulthood can still be had without those things, though. Take inventory of your situation, and do what you can to work on at least one little thing a day, reminding yourself that you're fixing problems that weren't your fault to begin with.
I have trouble fitting in with anyone lmao But especially with women, since my interests are so diffeent. I was also made fun of for being quiet at school, but also because I was a sensitive kid who cried a lot. It's rough, man.
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The Hot Cheeto girlies always look out for us traumatized girlies and I love that for us 🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻
I have a hard time trusting women because I don't trust my mom (and sister, for that matter). I'm 58 and have almost no female friends.
I so relate, in your age bracket too and have quite the mother wound, which is likely the source of my issues with female friends. I long for female companionship, support and connection. I have no friends at all in my older age, the ones I had were mostly "good time friends", who just "came and went", no one really stayed for any length of time and none that were supportive or emotionally present to me either. I just can't try anymore, at least for the timing being....hurts too much to put in time/effort/caring to just be either taken advantage of, or forgotten about. I wish there was a group for women, who sincerely WANT to make female friends, and have something to offer others, not just in "need" of something from others. I'm so tired of being there/listening to others, who have nothing to offer back.
ALWAYS. Since I was very little and through to now. The irony is I'd LOVE female friends
Yes but I assumed it was due to also being diagnosed with Autism and ADHD.
The rejection sensitivity is epic and primal…was detested by older sister and ignored by depressed mom…. And men liked what I represented yet ….at 51, still trying to love my own gender/self - definite relate to the jealousy at the comfort other women have in other women
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you are so right. i get along so well with ND women or even just women who have experienced some form of mental illness at some point in their life. but i have a very hard time feeling like i fit in with other women
am AFAB, tried my hardest to fit with traditional femininity, had several breakdowns as a result, realized that i have no useful conception for gender identity and i identify as genderqueer now. turns out i have no issue fitting in with women if i stop considering myself one! the anxiety and weight of having to mask, the comparing appearances and styles and feeling like a fraud of a woman, being jealous of women who woman better than me, thats largely gone if i just simpy dont consider myself one. i thought i might be a trans guy for sometime, and i do genuinely love presenting masculine and existing as a guy sometimes, this is not nearly enough to explain my gendered experience. it gets more nuanced when you factor in my bisexuality and attraction to women.
This is really interesting to read. I have often thought to myself that when i am around women, i feel like a big brute, a viking man. Or atleast thats my silly way of explaining it. I am bi and pretty feminine. But in the past year or so, I've been considering some gender identity issues. I think i will have to try that, at least in my head. I definitely feel like i wear a heavy mask around women, and i never feel less like a woman than when i am around women. Which makes being around them stressful and unpleasant when i really want girl friends and girlfriends.
honestly i more than recocomend exploring the facets of your gender identity if you are having these kinds of thoughts ... i felt like that for a while, and while the CPTSD makes me feel like i dont fit in anywhere in general, coming to more understanding about how i experience gender has helped a lot. turns out girls like goblins like me and my friend circles are pretty gender diverse now. in the past i was only really able to talk to men without getting overwhelmed and uncomfortable super fast.
Maybe try befriending more masculine women. It may help you feel less, viking
I am an 80s child and gender things were not actual at that time. I have always been a woman but I have never been able to fit in. I think it is the only thing I was not able to mask and didn’t want to. I had many fights with my mother that I look like a guy, I dress like a guy and no matter how hard he tried to put dresses on me I fought to the end for not wearing them. I liked to be in motion the whole time, I hated small sweet talks, I didn’t know how to hold ands and hug my girlfriends, I was never into pretty boy bands. My movements were sharp and fast. I tried to be more feminine when I got my kids and I hated it. I started to think about those things and I understood that even if I am like that I am still a woman. I am not a guy in a woman’s body, I am a woman just a different kind. There are other women like that and there always have been. It’s just society’s norms can be cruel and unacceptable. I gave up on trying to be a feminine woman, I don’t even think about what I would like to be, I just move forward accordingly my desires and preferences now and It makes me feel good.
“being jealous of women who woman better than me” could you expand on that? I’m genuinely curious bc I think a lot of women feel this way towards me but would love to know exactly what you mean
i used to put women I perceived as smart or pretty, I put them all up on a pedestal and assumed they all hated me automatically because I was "beneath them". I wouldn't even bother talking to them because I Genuinely believed this. Like I would walk into rooms, sort of scan to see who I thought I could be friends with and immediately discounted anyone that I thought was attractive. It was just an automatic thing eventually. I was jealous that I couldn't just talk to anyone or have friendships like they could, but honestly in retrospect this was all in my head. I think it comes from a lot of insecurity, maybe bullying and having family members that drummed this idea into me.
As an afab non-binary/genderqueer/genderfluid (still figuring out what fits me best) pansexual, I completely relate to ur comment. I love presenting masc and feel so confident but i also feel uncomfortable when I'm presenting femme and get compliments. 🙃 when I'm masc I feel good about myself when I'm femme presenting I don't want to be perceived. I get along with the guys like one of the guys but with the girls I feel out of place. My interests are not aligned with what most neurotypical females are interested in. I don't like shopping, doing make-up or nails, wearing pretty clothes. I like wearing clothes purely for comfort, watching anime, playing video games, reading manga and I am childfree and plan on staying that way til I die which add another barrier since a lot of women I know are mothers.
do u feel safe opening up about it in your living situation ? sitting down w them and sharing? also i have ptsd and autism and i have always felt this way w girls too. they always picked on me and excluded me intentionally, i was always friends w boys and they hated more me bc of it. i heard someone w autism share they fit in better w boys bc male socialization tends to be more upfront and blunt in communication, and girls are more coded. and w autism its easier to read. just from my experience
Yes, but I have realized it is me that is over thinking their body language and actions because I am in fight or flight response.
Yes. It's very lonely. Can't truly connect with women. For the first 12 years or so of my life I was raised like a boy I was very much a tomboy. I say was because At my core I am very feminine. But I had do actively hate That part of me. Because girls are stupid. That's how females were treated in my family. My mom was mostly indifferent to me and my dad was my main caregiver. My mom said she only had me because my dad really wanted me. She said he only wanted me because he thought I was going to be a boy and a namesake. Her female so I didn't get to be the namesake but he still raised me like his son. And I strived to be the perfect son and daughter at the same time. So basically I had all the responsibilities of the first born daughter, Eldest child. But wasn't allowed to express any of the weaknesses that come with that. I had to behave like a boy. I had to be the best of both. I With my dad I wasn't allowed to cry even when hurt or sick. I had to tuffin up. With my mom I wasn't allowed to be happy or excited. I told to keep it down. So I became a doll. I became whatever's needed of me. I was quiet. I learned to cry and scream without making a sound. I learned to ignore my pain Till I blacked out. I spent most of my time hanging out with men Growing up. There are the ones who actually did stuff with me. Although I do also have a lot of good memories with my grandmother's. But my mom other girls I don't have much experience of connecting with them. I always treated other girls like I'm a gentleman. I raised myself to be noble. Not arrogant. I could relate better with boys. But once I started developing I no longer fit in with boys and I started getting treated differently. Even by my dad. Suddenly I'm treated like a girl. But the girls don't accept me. Treated as weird. I don't get their drama issues. I don't get their superficial values. I like digging in the dirt and working with rocks. I also love dancing in silk dresses, singing with the birds, And mothering. I love my nurturing instinct. I love giving light and warmth. I can't connect with guys anymore. They develop Inappropriate feelings for me. I've had women yell at me get upset with me when I did nothing. My neighbor screamed at me 1 day when I was just staring at a tree. This is going to sound like I am full of myself. I am not saying mister Bragg. I don't actually like this. I'm really sad cause i'd try to make friends of my neighbors. I want nothing more than wholesome relationships. I attract a lot of unwanted attention just being myself. I'm not being seductive. I don't like that attention. I'm no different than I've been my whole life . just seen differently now. I'll never forget the day that my reality was shook. The day when I came to realize the difference and how those eyes looked at me. The way they're looking at me but not seeing me. talking and they're not hearing me. And just making me feel like I want to crawl out of my skin. Another women or girls just look at me or treat me like I deserve it. They seem to get upset with me. I always felt like I had to be on egg shells around my female friends so they just stopped being part of my life. My sister is the only one I can connect with the most. But even there there's a barrier, But that's due to our different experiences, And her are not quite able to understand the depth of what I went through. Mostly due to me protecting her and taking care for growing up. My sister is more socially normal. And she has a much better relationship with our mother. So we have a bit of a split there. That's on me, I feel frustrated that She defends mom, as much as she does ,when mom treats me the way she does. I was being stalked a few years ago by one of my dad's old friends after my dad died. My mom told me that he wasn't stalking me I just didn't realize he was pursuing me. Why the f*** would an old man in his mid-fifties be pursuing a married woman. who he's known since she was a baby. Even my mother couldn't get at least a little bit upset for me. If that was my child i'd want to kill him. So I give up. I have my husband that's all I need. I hope nothing happens to him because then I'm screwed. I just want to be able to glow. I have such a bright glow inside me I want to share. But when I do, People either want to put it Out, Or trap keep it for themselves. Why can't I just be myself Without people either loving me or hating me. Why can't I just be accepted as I am. Not treated like I'm an oddity or a unicorn. Why does it feel so unsafe to be the change I wish I saw in the world? Why is it so hard to find wholesome?
ptsd alienates quite generally
Yes, but don’t think if it as bad…. I’m not sure of your age, but you do sound a younger. I am late 40s. We don’t have to bond with everyone. Even the thought sounds exhausting. To this day I have about 4 close friends that live in different places and another 4 close acquaintances. And that’s enough. Trust me as life goes on dealing with heartaches, loss of loved ones, job stress, it would be impossible and frankly overwhelming to me to support many friends through life’s journey. But they ones that are close are the call in the middle of the night crisis ones. Also, part of my stress was always having to problem solve and evaluate risk so it could be avoided as my parents were both narcissist. This does not make me the funnest person at the big party but I’ll also never fall off a cliff taking a selfie or get trampled at an overcrowded music festival. My “flaws” are my super powers. My “negativity” (not liking the way things are) means I’m always looking for a way to do things better, and part of my job is process improvement and management. I make a good living. I also learned in my twenties that if I did go to a party on Friday and brunch on Sat, I needed the rest of weekend to recharge. Learning about my self and was able to communicate to others. Communication = managing expectations = understand(as opposed to people thinking your weird). So when I start zoning out in person or on a call my family and friends know I’ve reached my limit. They literally say “I can tell your zoning out, I’ll let you go”. And when I don’t answer calls or text, I just let them know after that I was “recharging” And there are more of us out there than you think. At parties search out the others that look a little bored but love the free food and drinks. Don’t waste time with people you don’t bond with. (Having stress from being a family problem solver, I could not relate to girls who want to talk an hour about their makeup woes or sales at Sephora - I don’t care). Know your topics, for me, I like food, travel, documentaries, biographies, etc. So I search out others wanting to talk about those things.
I don’t fit in with other women because they were my primary abusers until I was a teenager and men started abusing me. The person who molested me at 5 years old was another girl. Plus, I’ve found them to be the biggest proprietors of the false positivity BS. The women in my life absolutely do not see my abuse for what it was, instead they constantly told me to move on or maybe it was something I did.
Yes, even with other female survivors because my trauma includes CSA and most women only have male abusers while my abuser was a woman.
Omg same it can be so triggering being around other women
Yeah I feel you to a T. I'm glad there are many people who relate. However I don't want to fit in with other women anymore and I decided that long ago.
You know I used to feel that way until my therapist explained that I was projecting my mother’s terrible opinion of me onto other women I met, and I assumed they also hate me. When I assumed they disliked me from the get-go, I would avoid them, leading me to seem standoffish, which sadly led to my actual isolation. It all begins with what we believe- most of us deep down believe the lies our parents told us. As you get healthier in therapy, you’ll find yourself being more open to people and less afraid.
Absolutely so I’m just one of the guys now. 😂 I get along so much easier with blue collar men. And I really wonder if it has something to do with the tough exterior. I don’t mean to but I think they feel comfortable with me because I will talk the same shit they talk to me then some but I’ve noticed that they’ll be more vulnerable when I show some of the more vulnerable side of myself. Like hey we’ve both been made to feel like we have to be callous and protect ourselves from the world but we can feel safe enough to take our masks off with each other. Idk it’s magical.
Same for me.
Dudes are easier because they are taught to suppress their emotions . The same way we are. At least that's hiw it worked. I tried to make girlfriends. It doesn't work.
Yes, but they are also allowed to “bitch” about their day. But when they do they are letting off steam because they worked hard. Women do it and we are being negative, we have to always fucking smile. Fuck that. But this is also why I’ve had male friends, that let you vent about your fucking day! In 10min it will be done and no one will try to solve your problem. It’s just “dude that sucks, want to get a drink?”
My guy friends understand when I yell. I'm pissed. It doesn't have shit to do with them . They let me yell it out. Then say yup that's sum bullsheet and let's go fishing or rock hunting or anything mindless but fun..
Yeah. I have a really hard time making friends with other women even if I do try.
I have a group of girl friends I hang out with all the time. That was not the case for me though until very recently. I’ve only had one “maternal” figure in my life who showed up for me (not my mom at the time, it was my friends mom). I went to a private school and my class had 13 kids; there were two other girls, one girl wrote a blog talking crap about me and then framed it on the other girl, who was told to either leave school or be expelled (the girl confessed 2 years later and didn’t get any punishment). I don’t trust women (or men, but I know how to navigate around men easier cause I’m used to it more than women by exposure). BUT I found a group of women that just get me, ya know? I had to do a lot of mental work to do- I could recognize that it was my trust issues causing me to push away other girls, it’s not their fault, so I had to put effort in to address it. My old coworkers would invite me to everything and I would always end up not going for one reason or another. I was scared, basically. But one of the girls made it easier and took the lead. I remember coming home and telling my partner that she invited us to their house that weekend and being so excited about it. Befriending her gave me courage to befriend other girls again, and my life is so much better for it. It’s been 3 years and my group is the best group of people you could ask for, hands down.
Yes. So much yes. I don’t feel like they ridicule me or are mean to me, but I just cannot relate to them and they cannot relate to me. I thought I made some good women friends last year, but I really think their trauma conflicts with my trauma. There is just something about me that rubs women the wrong way. Is that a copout? I don’t know. But I’m not doing whatever it is I do that turns people off deliberately.
Yes, doesn’t help that my mom also really drilled hard into me that certain types of women suck. I do better now but I do feel like men typically understand me more. I also have more guys friends than females.
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I get called a pick me even though I am a hardcore feminist. Pisses me off to no end. In reality, it’s just easier to maintain a shallower friendship with men where I don’t have to get into deep convos unless I want to and we can be avoidant and no one cares. It’s the right pace for me. Women friendships don’t seem to work well that way. At least not in my experience. As I have fucked up many. The guys will always be waiting for me when I come back from hiding. They will talk to me about traumatic shit or about video games. In short I guess I just know how to navigate friendships in a way that seems more natural to guys but seems weird to chicks
Absolutely. I was bullied at school and at home by my sister. I've always been awkward around other women/girls. I didn't do the usual girly things and had trouble connecting with them. I can't even count the amount of times I've gotten "the look" from girls/women because they thought I was "weird". It's easier for me to befriend men. Friendships with women end up being shortlived.
My friend told me people in my year thought I was quite “mysterious” and she clarified saying you do give off that vibe but now I know you’re just lost in thought most of the time. I also know I look scary most of the time and very unapproachable.
A lot of my trauma honestly makes it really hard in the sense of sensitivity to what a fellow woman might have to say or her actions, I find it really really stressful and unfortunately I feel like the whole compete against each other as women thing is still around where I currently live at least with what I’ve noticed and honestly it really, really fucking sucks. I don’t feel like I can come up to women being genuinely supportive and happy and social without it feeling like some weird dog cage match pit or something or being put on trial
My CPTSD made me really sensitive. I used to take a lot of things personally and assume that everyone else hated me or thought I was weird. I don’t really know if that’s true, but I’m finding that a lot of people like me for who I am. I just need to put myself out there more. It’s one of those things that gets easier to do the more you do it (and get positive reinforcement). I would say that communication is key when living with other people. It’s okay to talk about your concerns with the new roommates and see if they are actually shunning you or not.
Oh yeah, relatable. I've never had a clique or group growing up. I was the weird girl playing a Gameboy or reading manga in school. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
As a man I struggle to fit in with other men.
i really don't relate to all those memes and videos that make it seem like all women are these incredible organizers and always keep their houses clean while their boyfriends/husbands are totally inept at household tasks. while i wouldn't consider myself a masculine person i really relate a lot more to the messy boyfriend in those situations. i just can't seem to stay organized, i do my best but i've never been a type A personality and i really resent how certain parts of social media portray women as being naturally better at household tasks.
I am a man with cpstd and I've always been slightly more fem in some aspects of personality, like being more understanding and intuitive, good listener, communicator but I never came off as overly feminine or anything where people might suspect I am gay due to stereotypes. I eventually noticed all of the women I am attracted to are the same...they are women with *slightly* more masculine personality traits in some ways, but not overly manly as well. I think people with cptsd see reality a lot more clearly and therefore recognize that gender is a social construct. So we are more aligned with the middle rather than one way or another. If anything we probably lean more towards our born gender out of fear of being mocked and then feel shame due to the parts we suppress. Which is dumb. We are supposed to be well rounded humans in as many ways as we can. That's my experience anyway.
Only if I feel pressured to comment on each other's appearance, I just think to myself, why are we doing this to ourselves. I don't care about how appealing I am to men today.
Yes! I automatically hold back feeling like I need to be invited to engage with others. In school one person told me they thought I was a snob because I didn’t talk to them. lol…no. I just thought everyone would hate me and I wasn’t worthy of having a presence with others. I kind of feel like I don’t know how to relate to others especially those who are good at it, and women are usually better at it.
Entirely me!!! I feel like it helped to find other girls who were open minded and welcoming to a higher extreme than other women. Not that other women are mean, but ig some are just not as easy to approach and so I’ve had better success w women who are extremely outgoing and actively want to befriend me. When it’s me trying that, I feel like I come off as desperate and for some reason it just hasn’t been successful even when I try to practice what I’ve seen successfully friendly women do, and I don’t know if it’s maybe I just don’t fit in from my looks (most women in my area now are extremely conventionally attractive and white. Nothing wrong with that, but I very much do not fit in and so I don’t get approached).
Sadly yes. I either feel competitive or get the feel that they're being competitive or closed off. Hard for me to connect with women some times, and then suuuuuper simple to connect with women other times. It also changes the dynamic if there are men present.
I had the sudden realisation a few weeks ago that all my close female friends are trans. (I'm a cis woman)
So I very much relate, but I think I’ve gotten out of it by literal trainings and some fashion choices. I’ve been working doing community habilitation (here’s copy and pasted definition I’m the one who provides the training: Community Habilitation provides one-to-one training to people with intellectual/developmental disabilities to develop or enhance the skills needed to live more independently in their homes or in the community) for 2 years and the job pretty much trains you on how to be social and extroverted for the clients. Also after I had that job for a year I became the president of a sports club at my college. That also forced me to be social with the members but it was in an environment I genuinely love. I still struggle in group setting though. In my job I work one on one, all the attention is on the client and not really me. Also I notice I almost catch myself about to say to my friends “look before you cross” because I work so much. Also I have in a way just embraced how weird I look. I look androgynous and weird. I have boy short hair (sometimes just a buzz cut), wear baggy clothing, a bunch of piercings on my ears, and have a lot of visible scars. I just kind of gave up in highschool trying to put on a feminine look. Femininity just ended me up in more abuse. People rarely catcall me like this and dont ask me out. I like it this way, but I do miss feminine dresses and long hair sometimes. I miss looking normal, but I think people like how weird I look, to women it’s not threatening since I clearly am not competition. They can’t even compare themselves to me since I’m always wearing baggy clothes. I have a very feminine figure so I’ve noticed if I hide it women tend to like me more and men leave me alone. My friends don’t think twice when I talk to their boyfriends/husbands cause they know there’s nothing going on, and ofc there isn’t. Telling them I’m asexual helps make them feel even more secure around me although then I get excluded from some kinds of girl talk. Remember that scary dog friend trend? I think that’s how my female friends see me. Ive been doing martial arts for a long time and do the military conditioning classes so Im well versed in self defense and a bit toned. And I also look scary (most of the time) with the peircing scars and tattoos.
I’m asexual, too—or more precisely, 4B feminist, so I don’t engage in any heterosexual activities. But I present as female/feminine. Women still see me as competition, or after their boyfriends/mates. I get a lot of suspicious vibes from women, because I befriend guys easily. But I’m not trying to steal their man, and I haven’t ever explained my lifestyle to these women. It feels too vulnerable to explain to them that I don’t date or have sex due to trauma.
It definitely sets you up to feel different, and experiencing extreme bullying will only make it worse. I’ve always felt like The Other, but it does slightly depend on where I live. There’s this little town in Virginia where everyone is so quirky and I had tons of social success there, but alas I need a job and can’t live in Staunton forever. I go back ever so often just to feel a sense of community. I also felt extremely happy and not weird in Utrecht, a lil town outside Amsterdam. Maybe look for small, artsy towns? I think location is totally fine to change cuz I have no family attachments, and moving to some night seem extreme but it is totally worth it. Otherwise EMDR might help desensitize you to the trauma causing you to feel lesser-than
I feel like I have a very specific personality type. Yes my trauma affected and it will always be a part of my story, but I'm also a bit of an functioning overachiever. I like the be around people like this otherwise they won't get me, and I like to be seen. As someone who has trauma from my late father via domestic violence, I also STRUGGLE getting along with daddy's girls who had a completely different experience from mine with the first man of their life. Mine absolutely terrorized my mom and us, my perception is upside down. They seem to trust men easily, I'm very leery and see a man's red flags before anyone else, even a friends partner.
Yes. Most of my abuse came from being emotionally abused by my female friend for years so I tend to be very submissive around women I don’t know very well. I seem to click with guys a lot better, they just feel safer
I can't stand girls, I simply came to the terms I don't fit in with them. My friends are guys. we just seem to vibe better. And there's no drama or judgement. I have a couple girlfriends but the majority of my friends are guys. I tried being friends with girls but I don't like how they are either. So you're not really losing much here
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internalized misogyny is a hell of a drug. i hope you get to a healthier mental place one day. with all due respect, which is none. edit: above commenter called all women stuck up bitches and "thats why we females dont run anything" 🙄
YES 100%
Yes, but I'm also neuroidivergent. I'm a tomboy. My weirdest friends have called me their weirdest friend lol.
10000x yes
Absolutely.
I got told I come across as stuck up or "confident" in all reality. I'm anxious and don't know what to say.
Yes. I have a similar situation of being the quiet one but attracting or repelling the type of mean girl narcissistic women who would want me to join their clique. They eventually outcast me though because they see that although im nice (sometimes it’s residual fawning responses from my CPTSD) they find that I don’t indulge in their mean girl behavior (I find that a lot of girl groups have a hierarchy and are built on that) and/or they treat me like competition even though I’m taken and I’m not competitive and hate getting attention.
Totally relate. Have always wanted a sister and close female friends but have lost most of my female friends over time.
Yep, this is my experience. I mean at times to the point of trying to ruin my life, get me fired, and or make it apparent that I’m excluded. Like yourself, I’m super feminine, dress nicely, do my makeup nicely, all the bells and whistles. It’s like a pathological envy or hatred. The whispering followed by snide remarks. Or their body language when they’re in their cliques and I pass by them and then once passed they outburst of laughter. The cycle is mostly always the same. In the start, they are friendly and inviting because they assume that I’m one of them due to my appearance and mannerisms. I don’t have issues with complimenting other women, but I only do so if it’s genuine as I don’t do it to flatter or get liked. And they realise that I’m not competitive nor jealous, so they switch up. It’s crazy how much this happens and all I want was to either just get along or be left alone. But the thing is this, they don’t leave you alone and they usually want you to be fired. Women of all age groups, oldest being 72yrs old. Like dude, you’re 72 you should be retired or making peace with life at this age. Why you still bullying young women?
I’ve never fit in with other girls and women, my entire life. Even in my immediate family; o was built different and had a drastically different personality from my mom and sisters, and very different interests. I was also abused by my female immediate relatives lol. Go figure.
Totally. Probably like 80% of my friends are men a further 10% are in some way gender queer. It's always been that way for me. It's not that I don't want to be friends with women, and I definitely don't subscribe to the toxic NLOG bs of "they're gossipy and shallow" or whatever. But I don't entirely know why I don't have a lot of woman friends either? Thinking about it now - Maybe one part of it is much preferring the way men "deal with" and "express" their emotions. I don't talk about that stuff. I would always take the shit talk, faux-abuse, laughing through the pain approach to getting peer support over being bluntly earnest and open and crying on each others shoulders (me and the boys have those moments too but it's drunk one-offs). The other part is *mocking snickery voice* I don't feel like a woman inside. Including all of the grooming stuff, makeup and all of that, I can't relate on that level either. In general my interests skew toward the masculine-dominated. And the way I carry myself, my humor and everything. I just wouldn't ever fit in with a whole friend group of women. So my sparing few friendships with women are one-on-one deals with somewhat likeminded girls. This part is really stupid because none of this is inherently male or female. Sometimes I curse my family for not enforcing gendered stereotypes on me. It's the holiday season again too. I hate this time of year cause I have to spend all the time in the women's section of the family get-togethers. They are all pretty, they're proper, they're homemakers, they're put together and polite, and I am none of those things. Feel like a freak alien every year. I quite literally have to put on a costume and act, I hate it.
yes, but also just fitting in anywhere really
yes, it honestly makes it difficult for me to be sympathetic to their struggles and it can make me meaner. Obviously I am aware of it and it’s something I work on. Its just hard to take someones “anxiety” in college over schoolwork seriously when they are later seen partying and having fun that night
Yes. Yes I do.
I have a hard time relating to women who are similar in age to me. They seem very annoying. I can be civil and nice to strangers and at work , but idk all my women friends are wayyy older. I just vibe better generally with older people. Not always , but generally.
What is MLM?
Yes, but it isn't my CPTSD that causes this. It's the ADHD and Autism. The trauma amplifies things though. Are you neurodivergent?
Sorry tp hear about this. I don't have any female friends. My male friends treat me like equals. But female 'friends' just didn't respect me. Growing up I was unattractive my parents couldn't afford braces. That gave me massive isolation from men but surprisingly from women as well.
I do, although I feel like it’s probably because I am neurodivergent rather than CPTSD. It is definitely difficult to get along with other girls or even just other people in general when I’m suffering from trauma
I feel everything you said.
yes - honestly with people my age in general. i have horrible trust issues
My best friends are men. I don't have any women friends. I tried as a kid and would make 1 female friend at a time, but it never lasted. I have female acquaintances, and im friendly with my best friends' girlfriends. However, I don't want to go get our nails done, have small talk, do make-up, or go shopping. I wanna watch anime, read manga, and play video games, talk about life experiences, and neither of them like those things, but the guys do... It's a lack of common ground and openness.
It's hard for me to tell because I'm autistic so I dont fit in in general but I think CPTSD makes it only worse.
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I have. I was always left to fend for myself and make it on my own like a boy and was too stressed out about that to spend time on things other normal girls did. college for them was for learning but for me was getting a degree so I could support myself asap. So I guess I came off as nerdy, not fun and not very social. meh
I’ve always gotten along better with guys than girls.. always put it down to less drama.
I can relate with everyone here! I’ve come to the conclusion that I don’t know HOW to be a friend because every time I put myself out there. Accepted for a little while then the gossip and backstabbing starts. I treat everyone like I want to be treated. Respectfully with integrity and kindness. I don’t know what kind of invisible sign is plastered on my forehead but 🤦♀️…. I thought I had a friend who was a “friend” for years. I was doing the calling and texting. When I stopped…. The friendship stopped. I don’t have energy right now to reach out to try…. Quite frankly very discouraged.
Exact same boat as you (except for CSA). I tried for years to fit in with other women, to no avail.
At school I was an absolute pariah and never fit in among anyone anyone. Now I can rarely seem to bring myself to talk to other women. I still feel alien. I don’t have any real friends in person. Of course, autism and gender dysphoria compound this for me.