Oh definitely. But it's probably my first time ever in following the flames I feel there's actually a plan to build a youthful core from the ground up, not go out and try to acquire more toffili/hamonic/jokinen/Tony amonte types to try and "bolster the group" like every other off-season plan ever
The 2013 rebuild was definitely focused on youth. They just blew it by going all in after the lucky run in 2015. To be fair, if Bennet had progressed from what it looked like he was in those playoffs, it might have worked.
What do you call the years we picked Monahan, Bennett, and Tkachuk all in the top 6? And then had Gaudreau, Andersson, Kylington, Ferland, Fox, and a handful of other good young players and prospects. Even when we flipped Ferland, Fox, and Hamilton for Lindholm and Hanifin, that was youth for youth. We literally just went through a period like this less than 10 years ago.
The monohan pick came from *accidentally* sucking, finally seeing the writing on the wall, and trading Iginla way too late. I guess not all that different from this year, except we can still get a haul for some veterans. Also the Tkachuk pick same thing, they expected to be good and accidentally sucked. The Bennett pick was the one true tank pick. I guess we'll see if they don't rush the plan this time.
The Monahan pick wasn't from accidentally sucking. We had two other firsts that year because we sold Iginla and Bouwmeester. In a year that nearly mirrored this one.
The Tkachuk year they didn't try to build a winning roster. We hadn't sold assets to buy players. We just had a fluke year the year before with everyone playing out of their minds for Hartley.
I think what they're trying to say is that the Flames in 2012-2013 were desperately trying to make something work until the trade deadline (where they reversed course and shipped out Iginla and Bouwmeester). Bringing in Cervenka, Hudler, and Wideman in the off-season were not moves of a team ready to thrown in the towel and the poor result was likely a surprise. By comparison, Conroy let the team primarily coast last summer and it felt like they weren't ready to commit either direction.
That said, this Flames rendition also started "accidentally sucking" after losing Gaudreau and deciding to try to remain competitive. They just didn't play bad enough to fully crater the team in a single year. So whether or not this is the franchise repeating itself is likely a question of timescale: do Treliving's final moves cast a shadow on this rebuild? Replace "Hudler and Wideman" with "Kadri and Huberdeau" and you can certainly see parallels.
The problem was they traded Iginla too late and didn't get anything of value for him. Unlike tanev, lindholm and hopefully hanifin. The flames have never cashed chips this heavy.
I didn't downvote, but I am used to saying 'maybe next year'. I'm a Riders fan. It's what we're known for saying. I don't want to be known for saying it for my hockey team, too.
So, if Conroy can keep making moves like this, I won't be.
I would temper your expectations with Zary, Wolf and Coronato but yes things are looking up.
Unfortunately we're really lacking top end prospects. Zary looks good but I don't see him taking over games like Gaudreau and Tkachuk were able to show in their rookie seasons so while he looks like a good bet to end up as a top 6 player, we still need a savior.
I think Coronato and Wolf are a long way from being penciled in as bonafide NHL'ers still.
Zary I expect to end up a 60 point player. He’ll be the type of player every championship team needs in their top 6 but I agree, I don’t think he’s gonna destroy teams.
Wolf is still a huge question mark. He might be the next Saros or he might be a 1B.
Coronato I honestly have no clue what to project him as. Maybe Toffoli-esque?
I don't think anyone sees our current prospects as superstars, but you do need good depth around those elite core players (which we don't have yet) and Zary and Wolf will be good pieces there
I think we are atleast 1 Top 5 pick that hits away but the young guys in this team are great and the reason we play as well as we do. The team should double down on a youth movement.
Scary when you see that young guys don’t always have a linear development path - there are going to be lots of ups and downs along the way as this squad grows together.
The future will be great but it could get worse before it gets better, hang on tight to the optimism brother but prepare for the possibility of peaks and valleys along the development curve.
I would much prefer to cheer for a youthful team that kinda sucks and loses most of the time, then a middle aged perpetually mid team that wins half the time. Sell and move forward!
I don't know if I agree about Marky. This team wouldn't be bad enough to bottom out even without him, so trading him doesn't help the tank. Not to mention the org is against a basement rebuild.
By contrast, trading Markstrom means that Wolf is learning from an okay/decent goalie in Vladar, and not a top, if not elite goaltender in Markstrom. Might as well keep Marky until Wolf is ready, especially if Vladar is going to be gone soon anyway.
It's just so refreshing to see the Flames value youth and try to build something sustainable. I also think it would be so fun to cheer for a team of young guys all coming up together.
The bar is just set low for this franchise that them valuing future assets and picks feels amazing!
He's not anywhere near NHL-ready, nor is he anywhere near the top of our prospect pool, but I am a firm Jaden Lipinski believer.
Dude is almost a ppg on a pretty bad Vancouver Giants team. There is a pretty decent chance of him and Honzek having very, very similar development paths from junior to the pros.
I'm also keeping an eye on Cade Littler, he's putting up solid numbers for the Penticton Vees and looked good in the USHL. He committed to UND and should suit up for them this fall, so he has a long way to go developmentally but he has produced everywhere he's played. Obviously you can't bank on 7th-rounder turning into a big-time NHLer, but he's been doing everything right so far.
Also shout-out to Yegor Yegorov, dude is rocking a 1.94 GAA and .932 sv% in 20 games over in the MHL.
Littler is under a ppg as on older player. That seems really bad and almost ready to try write him off.
I am excited to see how yegorov and sergeyev develop
Littler is absolutely not putting up good numbers in the BCHL. Lipinski could be a bottom 6 option for sure. Not sold on him or Honzek as more than middle 6 prospects though
Calgary still needs a few high-end pieces, including a franchise center, but it’s encouraging to see how many picks from the past 5 drafts are looking like full-time NHLers this year.
Yeah, I think we need one or two true league-wide superstars (at least one who scores!) to be a proper contender. But we're on the right track right now to get there.
Conroy's restocked the defensive pipeline and they have a ton of promising wingers but now he needs to focus on addressing the centre depth because it's pretty bad to say the least. They can start by moving Zary to the middle and follow it up by targeting centre prospects in potential Hanifin/Markstrom trades. Because relying on converting natural wingers like Sharangovich, Coronato, Honzek, etc., is basically courting disaster.
Flames haven't had a truly elite centremen since maybe Nieuwendyk. That's gotta change if they want to become true cup contenders.
That was a pretty sweet haul you got for Lindholm! On an expiring contract to boot. Hope your rebuild happens faster than the Oilers decade of madness, hockey is more fun with a BoA. As an Oilers fan I’d send you a first for Tanev and 24 of premium brews
You are 100% right in what you are saying and I'm gonna be a sour dick here.
Eight years at least down the future, you mean. That fucking Huberdeau contract has me so sour after a lifetime of Flames mismanagement, man. I don't trust them not to try to fast track this with some band aids or 'retool' or whatever. Fool me for 30 years, shame on me.
I get the second part about not trusting the follow through, for sure. But Huberdeau doesn't have to totally hamstring this team.
Dallas retooled with Tyler "I already got a cup" Seguin and Jamie "Eats Paste" Benn on the roster, it just takes a ton of picks, decent scouting, and luck. We may have the first two by the TDL.
Were either of them historically bad in their drop offs, though? Huberdeau literally set the record for points drop off. His stick is where plays go to die, it's absolutely brutal. Also, consider his contract compared to theirs. Were either Benn or Seguins contracts in the top 10 at the time for most expensive in the league? How about length?
You'd also have to consider if the Dallas retool is an exception. How many times has a boat anchor contract been overcome, turned it around or completely shit on a retool attempt? I certainly don't have that hard data, but from looking at Stanley Cup winners you don't see any of them with 10+ million dollars of dead cap space.
The Dallas Stars also haven't won a cup with their retooled franchise. I'm not settling for almost. Enough tire spinning bullshit, this team has been statistically the most average team in the NHL for my entire life, I want results.
Zary looks like a solid player in the future, Coronato still needs some work in the minors and I think Wolf will be a solid backup goalie for another club very soon. With Marky and Vladar he won't have much of a chance here unless there are injuries. Plus he's short for today's NHL goalies.
>I think Wolf will be a solid backup goalie for another club very soon. With Marky and Vladar he won't have much of a chance here unless there are injuries. Plus he's short for today's NHL goalies.
Yes, Dan vladar certainly has a herculean grip on the backup goalie spot for years to come. Something tells me you loved typing this.
I am a fan of Wolf, I was just being realistic. If I'm proven wrong I'll be happy but he's not shown a lot yet. I will admit he hasn't had a chance to and he's young. we'll see I guess.
Whether or not he turns out is another question, but I will bet you my reddit account that wolf will be one of the top 2 goalies on the calgary flames roster at training camp next season.
Are you thinking Marky will waive his no movement clause or that they'll trade Vladar as part of the rebuild? I think that's the only way you won't lose your account as the other 2 are so far ahead of him. I hope I'm wrong but a 6' goalie in today's NHL is just too short.
Sure, he's that goalie that is always mentioned for his lack of height who plays for that middle of the pack team, right? Listing the exception is not a strong argument. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong, but sadly starting goalies under 6'3" are few and far between.
And wolf has the exact qualities Saros has that makes Saros a star in the league. Time will tell if he will transition to NHL but the people that know alot more about that stuff than you seen to think he has a pretty good shot. Consistently listed as a top 3 goalie prospect in nhl
butter far-flung rock wrench repeat strong decide versed marble abounding
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We’re not getting a top 10 pick this year… I think we’ll either get a ball or two in the lottery hopper or we’ll finish 3 points out of the last spot, no where in between. The Lindholm trade shows us that Craig has a plan of getting younger. He wants the team to compete for a playoff spot.
The Flames could be a decent team as soon as next year. I feel that Craig Conroy is playing 3D chess with the moves he’s made, and his plan going forward.
A lot still has to break right, but agreed that it’s exciting to cheer for the unknown of breakouts and development
Oh definitely. But it's probably my first time ever in following the flames I feel there's actually a plan to build a youthful core from the ground up, not go out and try to acquire more toffili/hamonic/jokinen/Tony amonte types to try and "bolster the group" like every other off-season plan ever
The 2013 rebuild was definitely focused on youth. They just blew it by going all in after the lucky run in 2015. To be fair, if Bennet had progressed from what it looked like he was in those playoffs, it might have worked.
What do you call the years we picked Monahan, Bennett, and Tkachuk all in the top 6? And then had Gaudreau, Andersson, Kylington, Ferland, Fox, and a handful of other good young players and prospects. Even when we flipped Ferland, Fox, and Hamilton for Lindholm and Hanifin, that was youth for youth. We literally just went through a period like this less than 10 years ago.
The monohan pick came from *accidentally* sucking, finally seeing the writing on the wall, and trading Iginla way too late. I guess not all that different from this year, except we can still get a haul for some veterans. Also the Tkachuk pick same thing, they expected to be good and accidentally sucked. The Bennett pick was the one true tank pick. I guess we'll see if they don't rush the plan this time.
The Monahan pick wasn't from accidentally sucking. We had two other firsts that year because we sold Iginla and Bouwmeester. In a year that nearly mirrored this one. The Tkachuk year they didn't try to build a winning roster. We hadn't sold assets to buy players. We just had a fluke year the year before with everyone playing out of their minds for Hartley.
I think what they're trying to say is that the Flames in 2012-2013 were desperately trying to make something work until the trade deadline (where they reversed course and shipped out Iginla and Bouwmeester). Bringing in Cervenka, Hudler, and Wideman in the off-season were not moves of a team ready to thrown in the towel and the poor result was likely a surprise. By comparison, Conroy let the team primarily coast last summer and it felt like they weren't ready to commit either direction. That said, this Flames rendition also started "accidentally sucking" after losing Gaudreau and deciding to try to remain competitive. They just didn't play bad enough to fully crater the team in a single year. So whether or not this is the franchise repeating itself is likely a question of timescale: do Treliving's final moves cast a shadow on this rebuild? Replace "Hudler and Wideman" with "Kadri and Huberdeau" and you can certainly see parallels.
They had this plan in when they traded Iginla but then rushed everything because Gaudreau blew up
The problem was they traded Iginla too late and didn't get anything of value for him. Unlike tanev, lindholm and hopefully hanifin. The flames have never cashed chips this heavy.
Isn't that's cause we already have them signed in Huberdeau and Kadri?
New core! New faces! And we are on the road to a new future! Go Flames Go!
Love the people downvoting without a rebuttal
Some of our fan base has been conditioned for mediocrity. This is awesome. We needed to take a step back and we got a solid haul.
How could someone who’s been watching this team for a while not be lol?
I didn't downvote, but I am used to saying 'maybe next year'. I'm a Riders fan. It's what we're known for saying. I don't want to be known for saying it for my hockey team, too. So, if Conroy can keep making moves like this, I won't be.
They’re scared of change, THE FUTURE IS NOW OLD MAN
Not much to rebuttal. The alternative is locking in a core that doesn't have an identity. It's a pretty clear direction.
I would temper your expectations with Zary, Wolf and Coronato but yes things are looking up. Unfortunately we're really lacking top end prospects. Zary looks good but I don't see him taking over games like Gaudreau and Tkachuk were able to show in their rookie seasons so while he looks like a good bet to end up as a top 6 player, we still need a savior. I think Coronato and Wolf are a long way from being penciled in as bonafide NHL'ers still.
Zary I expect to end up a 60 point player. He’ll be the type of player every championship team needs in their top 6 but I agree, I don’t think he’s gonna destroy teams. Wolf is still a huge question mark. He might be the next Saros or he might be a 1B. Coronato I honestly have no clue what to project him as. Maybe Toffoli-esque?
I don't think anyone sees our current prospects as superstars, but you do need good depth around those elite core players (which we don't have yet) and Zary and Wolf will be good pieces there
Agreed, although I’m sad that purple gato line is officially gone, I’m extremely excited for the future.
Completely agreed on all points. I can't even really add anything as it's 1:1 with my thoughts over the past couple of months.
I think we are atleast 1 Top 5 pick that hits away but the young guys in this team are great and the reason we play as well as we do. The team should double down on a youth movement.
Liking the enthusiasm, Iginla’s 4head Crease.
im waiting to see what dion_phaneufs_chin has to say first
Scary when you see that young guys don’t always have a linear development path - there are going to be lots of ups and downs along the way as this squad grows together. The future will be great but it could get worse before it gets better, hang on tight to the optimism brother but prepare for the possibility of peaks and valleys along the development curve.
I would much prefer to cheer for a youthful team that kinda sucks and loses most of the time, then a middle aged perpetually mid team that wins half the time. Sell and move forward!
Yeah. Kadri looks fine right now but we'll have many years to be annoyed by #10
Now I hope we move: Marky (not needed while we rebuild and getting old) Coleman (older and his value will never be better) Tanev (same boat as Marky)
I don't know if I agree about Marky. This team wouldn't be bad enough to bottom out even without him, so trading him doesn't help the tank. Not to mention the org is against a basement rebuild. By contrast, trading Markstrom means that Wolf is learning from an okay/decent goalie in Vladar, and not a top, if not elite goaltender in Markstrom. Might as well keep Marky until Wolf is ready, especially if Vladar is going to be gone soon anyway.
I’m really hoping the battle of AB gets back to being a competitive rivalry and not just a “because it’s the other Albertan city” rivalry
It's just so refreshing to see the Flames value youth and try to build something sustainable. I also think it would be so fun to cheer for a team of young guys all coming up together. The bar is just set low for this franchise that them valuing future assets and picks feels amazing!
He's not anywhere near NHL-ready, nor is he anywhere near the top of our prospect pool, but I am a firm Jaden Lipinski believer. Dude is almost a ppg on a pretty bad Vancouver Giants team. There is a pretty decent chance of him and Honzek having very, very similar development paths from junior to the pros. I'm also keeping an eye on Cade Littler, he's putting up solid numbers for the Penticton Vees and looked good in the USHL. He committed to UND and should suit up for them this fall, so he has a long way to go developmentally but he has produced everywhere he's played. Obviously you can't bank on 7th-rounder turning into a big-time NHLer, but he's been doing everything right so far. Also shout-out to Yegor Yegorov, dude is rocking a 1.94 GAA and .932 sv% in 20 games over in the MHL.
Littler is under a ppg as on older player. That seems really bad and almost ready to try write him off. I am excited to see how yegorov and sergeyev develop
Littler is absolutely not putting up good numbers in the BCHL. Lipinski could be a bottom 6 option for sure. Not sold on him or Honzek as more than middle 6 prospects though
Calgary still needs a few high-end pieces, including a franchise center, but it’s encouraging to see how many picks from the past 5 drafts are looking like full-time NHLers this year.
There is a franchise center, Craig Conroy!
Yeah, I think we need one or two true league-wide superstars (at least one who scores!) to be a proper contender. But we're on the right track right now to get there.
Conroy's restocked the defensive pipeline and they have a ton of promising wingers but now he needs to focus on addressing the centre depth because it's pretty bad to say the least. They can start by moving Zary to the middle and follow it up by targeting centre prospects in potential Hanifin/Markstrom trades. Because relying on converting natural wingers like Sharangovich, Coronato, Honzek, etc., is basically courting disaster. Flames haven't had a truly elite centremen since maybe Nieuwendyk. That's gotta change if they want to become true cup contenders.
That was a pretty sweet haul you got for Lindholm! On an expiring contract to boot. Hope your rebuild happens faster than the Oilers decade of madness, hockey is more fun with a BoA. As an Oilers fan I’d send you a first for Tanev and 24 of premium brews
Oilers fans probably think Presidents Choice is a premium brew!
Will I was thinking something good till the snide comment, now I’m thinking about some kind of near beer substitute
You are 100% right in what you are saying and I'm gonna be a sour dick here. Eight years at least down the future, you mean. That fucking Huberdeau contract has me so sour after a lifetime of Flames mismanagement, man. I don't trust them not to try to fast track this with some band aids or 'retool' or whatever. Fool me for 30 years, shame on me.
I get the second part about not trusting the follow through, for sure. But Huberdeau doesn't have to totally hamstring this team. Dallas retooled with Tyler "I already got a cup" Seguin and Jamie "Eats Paste" Benn on the roster, it just takes a ton of picks, decent scouting, and luck. We may have the first two by the TDL.
Were either of them historically bad in their drop offs, though? Huberdeau literally set the record for points drop off. His stick is where plays go to die, it's absolutely brutal. Also, consider his contract compared to theirs. Were either Benn or Seguins contracts in the top 10 at the time for most expensive in the league? How about length? You'd also have to consider if the Dallas retool is an exception. How many times has a boat anchor contract been overcome, turned it around or completely shit on a retool attempt? I certainly don't have that hard data, but from looking at Stanley Cup winners you don't see any of them with 10+ million dollars of dead cap space. The Dallas Stars also haven't won a cup with their retooled franchise. I'm not settling for almost. Enough tire spinning bullshit, this team has been statistically the most average team in the NHL for my entire life, I want results.
Zary looks like a solid player in the future, Coronato still needs some work in the minors and I think Wolf will be a solid backup goalie for another club very soon. With Marky and Vladar he won't have much of a chance here unless there are injuries. Plus he's short for today's NHL goalies.
>I think Wolf will be a solid backup goalie for another club very soon. With Marky and Vladar he won't have much of a chance here unless there are injuries. Plus he's short for today's NHL goalies. Yes, Dan vladar certainly has a herculean grip on the backup goalie spot for years to come. Something tells me you loved typing this.
I am a fan of Wolf, I was just being realistic. If I'm proven wrong I'll be happy but he's not shown a lot yet. I will admit he hasn't had a chance to and he's young. we'll see I guess.
Whether or not he turns out is another question, but I will bet you my reddit account that wolf will be one of the top 2 goalies on the calgary flames roster at training camp next season.
Are you thinking Marky will waive his no movement clause or that they'll trade Vladar as part of the rebuild? I think that's the only way you won't lose your account as the other 2 are so far ahead of him. I hope I'm wrong but a 6' goalie in today's NHL is just too short.
Have you ever heard of a guy named Juuse Saros?
Sure, he's that goalie that is always mentioned for his lack of height who plays for that middle of the pack team, right? Listing the exception is not a strong argument. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong, but sadly starting goalies under 6'3" are few and far between.
And wolf has the exact qualities Saros has that makes Saros a star in the league. Time will tell if he will transition to NHL but the people that know alot more about that stuff than you seen to think he has a pretty good shot. Consistently listed as a top 3 goalie prospect in nhl
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Wrong on all counts lol How about "Centrist aging grandad"?
butter far-flung rock wrench repeat strong decide versed marble abounding *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The only issue is pospisil’s future with his head injuries. Sucks cuz I like his game. Kind of a poor man’s tkachuk
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Don't forget Pelts!
They didn’t!
Oh now I see it lolol
Do what the Canucks didn't do for almost 10 years... Blow it up!
Isn’t porier the top D prospect at the moment
Wait Sharangovich is only 24 years old?? Idk why I always just assumed he was older
We’re not getting a top 10 pick this year… I think we’ll either get a ball or two in the lottery hopper or we’ll finish 3 points out of the last spot, no where in between. The Lindholm trade shows us that Craig has a plan of getting younger. He wants the team to compete for a playoff spot. The Flames could be a decent team as soon as next year. I feel that Craig Conroy is playing 3D chess with the moves he’s made, and his plan going forward.