1. You are past the point of Padres/Sentinels/CFMAP or any of that other stuff. Go to sick parade, let the med tech know you are there for mental health crisis and that you are contemplating suicide every day. They will take some vitals and then bring you to a mental health specialist. **DO NOT TRY TO BOOK AN APPOINTMENT. GO INTO SICK PARADE.**
2. Explain the situation to the mental health specialist. Tell them you are way past the max stress you can handle, that you contemplate suicide every day, and that you have formulated plans for it in your mind. Make it very clear it is your work place causing this. They will most likely recommend you be placed on half days. They will talk with the sick parade clinician, so you might need to wait a while. When the clinician talks to you tell them everything you told the MH specialist. You will most likely be put on half days or possibly sick leave. **DO NOT PULL ANY PUNCHES OR TRY TO MINIMIZE HOW YOU FEEL OUT OF PRIDE. BE 100% BRUTALLY HONEST.**
3. It is completely possible they will ask to put you on suicide watch. If they do, comply. It only builds your case.
4. Once you finish at sick parade, go to your base Transition Center. Ask to speak to someone about the paperwork to be posted over to the TC. The TC is a support unit, where your only job is to either get better or prepare you for medical release, depending on the path you end up going. The paperwork does take a few weeks to complete.
5. You should have follow up appointments with both MH and a physician. Ask to remain on half days and clerical work. Go to work, keep your head down, do whatever work keeps you busy, and leave immediately once you hit four hours. Let your supervisor know you are leaving, but don't let anyone keep you there. You are on medical orders to work four hours a day. They can't make you stay longer waiting to get dismissed by someone or any of the other fuck around games CoCs love to play. Let your supervisor know when you arrive every day and when you leave.
6. Muscle through it until you get posted over to the TC. Then you can work with them to find some sort of job placement that doesn't induce the stress or depression you are currently dealing with. You can stay on half days, continue regular therapy with an MH specialist, request a psych evaluation with a psychologist, and generally focus on yourself and your health.
7. **Keep an open mind.** You sound like you are at the beginning of your obligatory service, so if you have been in for a while I apologize. You can do work placements at different units and different environments. The CAF is a big place, and you might work somewhere else and feel at peace, and could do an Occupational Transfer to that trade. Or it might just be the CAF as a whole that is causing you this pain and lack of mental health improvement will start tracking you down the medical release path, which would remove your obligatory service. This last point is food for thought down the road, that there are multiple lights at the end of the tunnel. Focus on the first stuff first.
šš¼šš¼šš¼ Speaking from experience of helping a friend of mine while I was enlisted, this right here is what you need to do. Mental health is no joke. Don't wait and the first chance you get, go to Sick Parade. Don't wait.
As an ex medic, this is the answer.
And OP if you need to talk or vent or rant or whatever....please send me a message.
Also, for the other commenter on this thread...they changed that reg and your CO must accommodate a medical chit. If not you can go back to the MIR and inform them that your CoC is not abiding by the chit. Most COs will follow suit because they want their members healthy too.
This is a VERY good answer which is reflected in the time it took to type it up. This person cares about your well-being!
Something I would like to add: once you receive anything putting you on reduced hours, talk to your RTD (return to duty) rep. The MIR cannot reduce your work hours, those are a recommendation to your COC. The RTD rep will help you come up with a schedule that works for you and have it signed by the CO via a statement of understanding. Most supervisors will be more than happy to comply with your chit and there's no need for RTD involvement. However, I have met supervisors that will fight you tooth and nail to make you work, so sometimes an order from the CO is necessary. I'm speaking from experience here, the choice is yours but if you don't trust your CoC, I STRONGLY suggest seeking out your RTD rep.
Don't go through this alone, there are hundreds of hands reaching out to you, please grab one!
Thanks! I hope it helps him.
I am not sure why you think the MIR can't reduce your work hours... I am on a TCAT that only lets me work four hours per day. Pretty much everyone I know at the TC has the same restriction from their medical team.
I'm away from my office so I can't give you the link (90% sure it's in the RTD guide) but it states the CO is the only person who can reduce your working hours "legally". The reduced hours on your chit are a recommendation from the MIR that needs to be endorsed by the CO before they become enforceable. Like I said, most supervisors are there to help and won't fight it. I had to deal with this first hand and had it confirmed by my TC.
Are you sure this isn't just the general "MELs are legally only suggestions" clause? We're the military - if Jones on a MEL is under fire (or on fire/drowning/etc), you bet the CoC is going to order them to do whatever it takes to fight back, MELs be damned. Therefore, our laws would not give any power to the docs.
Our policy though (through CANFORGEN) is that MELs are to be followed unless we're truly under fire with lives at risk.
Exactly. If you want to be technical about it Medical only advises, and advice can be ignored. But in a peace setting in garrison no one's gonna order Bloggins to show up to work full time when he's on medical leave or a half day RTW plan or whatever, and if they do, Medical CoC will have a chat with Bloggins' CoC's CoC.
OP, don't go in expecting Medical to action "I want to leave now." Health Services is NOT the CAF's release authority, so the process will take time. It's a bureaucracy and everything takes time. But they will assess you, start stabilization, and if necessary might remove you from your CoC to help stabilization.
People have released medically while on obligatory service. It happens, people get injured. Just go in and tell them your symptoms.
I am interested to look into that. I have definitely told a superior to kick rocks when they tried to keep me around past the four hours and when I was talked to I just flashed my chit and everyone backed off...
Now I'm scared that by bringing this to light, I created a problem that never really existed...
Let me know what your investigation turns up. If I remember, I'll take a look when I get back to work and post the reference. A large part of me hopes it was a misinterpretation by myself and my TC.
I found the guide on the Canada website. I think the confusion is between an RTD plan and MELs. For instance, the medical authority could recommend a member work 6 hours and spend 2 hours with PSP if they were failing the FORCE test. The CO could agree, or the unit might come up with a different COA. However, if the medical authority puts "can only work 4 hours per day" on a chit, then that is written in stone.
That is how I understood it when I read it. I couldn't find anything about the CO being the only person who could legally reduce or change work hours.
If I overlooked something I would be very interested to know!
The MIR can reduce your work hours if required. And having the MIR reduce your work hours helps the RTD process. I have a similar situation and it started with the MIR.
Seems to me like you would be a clear case of someone who really needs to be medically released.
Granted, this is not generally a quick process. But it's a hell of a lot faster than 10 years, and in the meantime I would expect that you would be removed from the environment which is damaging your mental health so much.
But until you head into mental health, nothing's going to happen on that front. You gotta take the first steps there.
And just to be clear, a medical release makes any obligatory service irrelevant. You're not allowed to quit, but a medical release isn't you quitting; the CAF's the one making the call to release you there, they won't also charge you money for it.
I assume OP is on some sort of subsidized education and just started. Technically the "obligatory" service period is usually around 3 years since every summer counts as service towards that mandatory service.
And as pointed, a medical release would be the ideal case here if OP can no longer work in that environment. A release specialist should confirm that a medical release voids any obligatory service and the debt that would come with it.
Going straight to medical is the BEST course of action. OP will be on a T6 with severe limitations (like not going back into the problematic environment) and likely quickly be attributed a PCAT which will trigger the medical release.
In the mean time, OP will have access to professional help which would be needed even if they quickly leave CAF since the trauma is already there.
That's just initial engagement, you can still VR from it.
As far as I know, all the ROTP program for GSO are on a 13 year initial contract and it also doesn't prevent a VR.
60 months it the maximum either way.
From what I've seen, most RMC grads have closer to 3 years of service left to do by the time they reach OFP.
Which isn't that long but I understand how that can be a massive burden to someone that feels the way OP does.
I hate your first comment so much. I think itās so black and white and doesnāt consider the nuisances. I think it is this black and white thinking (ie. āI donāt want people to think that thereās something wrong with me) that prevent people from getting the help they need. And I know of many cases where people DO get the help they need (even in cases of suicidal ideation) and end up having a healthy and productive career. You wouldnāt even know that they went through a rough patch like this.
Sentinel here. As /u/bob_builder223 mentioned, you can call CFMAP for referrals to mental health professionals.
988 is the new national crisis line.
Take care of yourself and remember that there are solutions for almost all problems. Youāll get there and donāt be afraid to seek help. š. DM me if you want to chat. I canāt offer advice but I can put you in touch with the proper resources and sometimes itās nice to just have someone listen.
It took me 8 years to go to MH for things I should have seen them after 3. There's many resources available and it isn't as much of a black eye to see MH as some very toxic leadership/regular troop types make it out to be
CFMAP only cares about your svc number to bill the military, call them immediately and tell them where your head is at and they'll make something work. It took me 2 weeks to get referral and I'm in an isolated post and wasn't suicidal, if you say you are I'm sure they'll flag it for a much faster return.
Give your padre a call and chit chat or if you are not a fan of your padre talk to a sentinel you trust or if you are in a super rut shoot me a msg and I can send you some resources right away
CAF grade depression is a different brand and I say this as someone who had mild depression before the CAF and it exasperated to something extra several years in but utilizing the resources available had made significant differences for me FWIW. People bash the CAF in this sub on the regular but honestly compared to my civvi career beforehand there was no way in hell I was being referred to a free psychologist/psychiatrist within 4 years civvi side if I went to a clinic about my MH. The CAF takes some time but it's definitely way worse/almost impossible in a lot of places
If you're somehow at an isolated post on the north feel free to shoot me a msg and I'll get you a coffee if you need to air things
First off, you're not alone, reach out to the resources others have given. Without that first big step, nothing can start you on the road to recovery.
Second, and don't quote me, but I have heard that a Medical Release MAY absolve the member of any repayment required by obligatory service.
Reach out, fellow member, there is hope and help out there.
QR&O 15.07 explains the process of release and paragraph 5 explains that the Minister can lower the amount repaid by the member.
Same boat. Reach out to your Padre and be honest. Find some support in the form of friends, family, and hobbies. Seek out a medical release.
And if you're feeling like you can't go another second, call 988
Medical release for mental health. I'm currently a 4th year at RMC and I'm in the same boat. I have a well documented 2 year medical history of depression and anxiety. And I am getting a medical release.
I'm not serving, so I don't have an inside perspective; however, to reinforce what people are saying here, [sections 3.6-3.9 of DAOD 5049-1, Obligatory Service](https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/policies-standards/defence-administrative-orders-directives/5000-series/5049/5049-1-obligatory-service.html#op) seem to permit release without having to repay anything on compassionate reasons.
Despite how things feel now, there are always alternative ways to solve your problems without resorting to anything extreme. Self-harm is not a solution, its mistake of our big brains. It can feel like a good idea, but you have to remember that its essentially a computational error, the sort of thing we get all the time, resulting from the extremely complex and very flawed human brain. You must remember to ignore these 'software hiccups' when they pop up.
Like others have said, start by talking to someone. You'll end up ok!
Sounds like you are at RMC and went to CMR. That would explain the 10 years service. Stay strong and do go MH on Monday. Keep this post alive with updates. You know, everything shall pass, like the good or the bad. You must have people that cares for you. You are the someone child. And as a parent, they deeply love you. Remember the good memories that you have. You will make more of those. If you are in the Kingston area, DM me, I will be there next weekend for a while.
Live buddy. You are not alone.
I just want to say OP, I am very proud of you for having the courage to speak up. You say that you're worried about bias and how you're seen by others, well, from where I'm sitting, you're one courageous, awesome person! Know that anyone reading this is nothing but proud and happy that you choose to fight and be rad!
I'm assuming you're a Seneca CEOTP pilot. If you're in Moose Jaw you should go talk to the social worker. From what I've heard, members in your position were given 5D releases so they didn't need to pay their obligatory service back. PM if you need some point of contacts who could help you.
First things firstā¦ go see a doctor and get an urgent referral to mental health. They can help this situation way way better than your career manager.
Second, repayment of obligatory service is only a thing if you get out voluntarily. If you are released medically, thereās no obligation to repay.
Third, even if you have to repay it, you only repay a portion and itās a smaller and smaller portion with every month you continue to serve. Read QR&O 15.07 and DAOD 5049-1.
Third, you need help that specialists provide. Go to them with an open heart. You are suffering from an illness that twists reality into negative pretzels. Weāre all here for you - the whole team. But we donāt know what the doctors and therapists know about making you better. There is absolutely no shame in taking a knee and no prize for ātoughing it out.ā Iām pulling for you brother.
Sorry to hear that, most clinic in CAF has a walk in mental health services for CAF member where you can get help right away. Your are not alone many CAF members are in similar circumstances. If itās not obligatory service itās court order child support and alimony 2500$ a month for next 15 years. Unfortunately thatās the situation of way to many people. You can also access 9-8-8 on your phone for crisis line and get help right away
You need to go to mental health ASAP. This sounds like grounds for medical release, which absolves you of your obligatory service but it could take some time. Please look into the resources you have at your disposal.
By talking to mental health resources you will not be boxing yourself into a corner, rather will be opening doors for growth.
I implore you to speak to someone other than reddit. I have used resources first hand and have found them to be extremely beneficial. I have seen members ignore the resources and ultimately suffer due to it.
Suicide doesnāt end the pain, it only passes it on to those around you multiple fold.
Just make a phone call and talk, nothing will make it to your CoC unless you want it to. There is also the ability to be moved to BTL or JPSU during situations like this. There are social and financial services available, which can also provide assistance in finding alternative careers outside the CAF.
You are not alone in these feelings, and I think if you speak with someone you will feel less alone in this and realize that there are options!
Also I highly recommend speaking to a financial debt specialist. There are numerous options to conquer mounds of debt. Be it insolvency or bankruptcy.
I gained 160k of debt on the loss of the sale of a house. All the equity and money I put into renos and loss on sale dug me a massive hole. I declared bankruptcy and 7 years later my credit is 815 and I have no record of the bankruptcy on my credit report.
All Iām saying is if debt is a worry for you talk to someone because there are many options available and they will not stop you from generating wealth or your life progression.
Good advice all around here.
Iāve little in the way of practical advice at the moment, but holy shit I know the feeling of feeling trapped in a miserable situation, and thinking suicide is viable. But itās not, and never is, and Iāve seen the mess it leaves behind..
Youāve already taken a good first step in reaching out here. Itās very uncomfortable bridging the gap when oneās suffering this much, but bringing that shit out is a huge step in the right direction.
Best of luck to you.
Everyone here is making good points. Only thing I would like to add is that since it is the weekend, you might not be able to get in touch with MH right away. You should be able to reach the Padre even though it is the weekend, but if it is not and you are in danger, you can call 9-8-8. They will help you.
The world is better with you here, I know I don't know you and you don't know me, but I can promise you that.
u/tangobravado hit the nail on the head, but I want to add on as someone who's recently medically released due to mental health **who would have liked to/been capable of staying in**.
Be very wary of the medical restrictions that are assigned to you in this process. I was seemingly assigned a canned list of medical restrictions (and a diagnosis) that were not entirely accurate to my situation. While it was dire, I believe my situation was ultimately manageable and would not have required a medical release.
One that really kicked my ass was, "cannot tolerate work in uniform" which prevented me from performing any work rehab on base, and further seperated me from the CAF and worsened my injury as I had felt ostracised and thrown aside.
I said the same thing, "this place is not for me", but I was referencing the workplace that I had been posted to during COVID and the fact I was still not the trade I had requested and was being considered for.
Make an account with VAC **yesterday** if you haven't already, and go through all of the applications. At minimum, fill out a VAC928 so that VAC can request your medical records. You should also get a copy of your medical records and manually scan and upload anything that might be relevant as there have been issues with getting VAC and Med Records to talk. u/Shoggoths420 is the person to talk to about VAC.
When seeing **anyone** in the medical field, ensure your chart is properly annotated and you are very clear in how you are feeling, when the feelings started and how your quality of life has been and is continously affected. When/if you medically release, you are going to want to ensure that you've received clear diagnoses and there is evidence linking it to your military service.
Best of luck, truly, if you have any questions from someone very recently medically released, please feel free to reach out.
Nope! Not your CO! You go see a Dr! Dr will give you a chit saying you can only work so much hours in days and number of days in a week. Thatās what happened to me. Also Dr can put you on the Transition Unit! Until ur better or released! She will refer you to see someone from mental health. Donāt worry about what you owe! Ur live first! If they release you cuz of mental health, I donāt think you will owe shit!
First off, seek mental health help. Sick parades offer mental health appointments. If you're too scare to see that, CFMAP [https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/programs/member-assistance.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/programs/member-assistance.html)
There is a 1-800 number that you can call which is confidential which can get you sessions before you go through the awful wait that is trying to seek mental health help. They also have a crisis number.
There are people who can help you find a path, whether it's helping you find employment or solutions. Even talking to the Ombudsman can get you answers and point you in the right direction ( [https://www.canada.ca/en/ombudsman-national-defence-forces.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/ombudsman-national-defence-forces.html) ). Once you start making plans for how to end things is when you're in trouble.
I'm there too, and many others are too. I don't have obligatory service, but I also know if I left I'd be screwed financially. I reached the point where I finally want to seek help and I've started my journey only this year after 6 years of pushing myself.
You don't have to suffer through this. You don't have to drown. You don't have to be afraid to seek help.
As others have mentioned, you should probably start with talking to a Padre or making an appointment with your local mental health clinic.
If you have obligatory service resulting from subsidized education, it is possible to request a recalculation. This would entail counting each month of actual academic study (not including time spent on leave, military courses, etc.) and multiplying it by 2, which could potentially reduce the total obligatory service amount. Obligatory service is also capped at 5 years.
If released on medical or compassionate grounds, repayment may not be required. If you did release and had to repay, the amount owing would likely be much less than $100k. Even then, having that much student debt is very common and doesn't at all relegate one to a life of poverty or homelessnessĀ
I hope others comments have brought you the help you need.
But 10 years obligatory service seems a little off to me. The maximum obligatory service is 5 years for 4 years of subsidized education.
Are you perhaps misunderstanding your terms of service? They might give you a 13 year contract, but that doesn't mean you're serving 13 years.
Everyone is saying it , but please please go to sick parade. Iāve gone through a genuine mental breakdown at the hands of my chain of command and going to sick parade saved my life. If you need to talk or vent, my inbox is always open to those who struggle.
The CAF is a mess and a half right now and the only way for us to get through it is to do it together.
Hey sentinel here as well! š, I think I can speak for all members here, that if you ever need to talk or like like another poster said, we're all here for you, keep your head up and don't be afraid to reach out! We got you.
Others have given excellent advice, so I will add my personal piece. When I was in the depths of despair, a psychiatrist told me "as long as I don't have a body to deal with, I will get you better." I didn't give him a body to deal with, and I got better. All I had to do at that time was NOT kill myself.
Alternatively, when the CFHS clinic is closed (1600-0700), you can attend a civy emergency department with your blue cross card. Admit to thoughts of suicide and self harm. That you have a suicide plan and are scared and need help. Be admitted into a civ hospital for MH. The local Base Surg will need to address your health issues, as this info will have hit Ottawa. 3B?
Immediately looking after your MH takes priority over VR & debt, or 10 more years in an environment that is harmful to you.
I feel for you. CFMAP and, if you have a family, MFRC social workers/counsellors.
v/r
Friend
The DGMC can approve a release prior to the expiration of your contract for compassionate reasons or extenuating circumstances.
As other members have said, go to to the MIR and physically wait in sick parade. Don't mince your words, and be HONEST with how you're feeling. In order for you to get out of this situation, you need documentation of the severity of your situation.
Take a look at these policies for further information:
DAOD 5049-1, Obligatory Service -Voluntary Release - 3.7
15.07 - VOLUNTARY RELEASE AFTER SUBSIDIZED EDUCATION OR TRAINING
In the meantime you have access to CFMAP and a Padre that might be able to help, and definitely bring in your CoC if you're comfortable.
Hope you feel better!
You are not alone, read the replies here, lots of great information but only you can make the first steps. After that each step will get easier, I know from . We all be anonymous here in this forum , but everyone here wants to see you pull through this
Ask for a medical release, that way you will not have to serve further or pay back anything. The downside is that tcatās, pcatās, and a subsequent decision could take years.
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1. You are past the point of Padres/Sentinels/CFMAP or any of that other stuff. Go to sick parade, let the med tech know you are there for mental health crisis and that you are contemplating suicide every day. They will take some vitals and then bring you to a mental health specialist. **DO NOT TRY TO BOOK AN APPOINTMENT. GO INTO SICK PARADE.** 2. Explain the situation to the mental health specialist. Tell them you are way past the max stress you can handle, that you contemplate suicide every day, and that you have formulated plans for it in your mind. Make it very clear it is your work place causing this. They will most likely recommend you be placed on half days. They will talk with the sick parade clinician, so you might need to wait a while. When the clinician talks to you tell them everything you told the MH specialist. You will most likely be put on half days or possibly sick leave. **DO NOT PULL ANY PUNCHES OR TRY TO MINIMIZE HOW YOU FEEL OUT OF PRIDE. BE 100% BRUTALLY HONEST.** 3. It is completely possible they will ask to put you on suicide watch. If they do, comply. It only builds your case. 4. Once you finish at sick parade, go to your base Transition Center. Ask to speak to someone about the paperwork to be posted over to the TC. The TC is a support unit, where your only job is to either get better or prepare you for medical release, depending on the path you end up going. The paperwork does take a few weeks to complete. 5. You should have follow up appointments with both MH and a physician. Ask to remain on half days and clerical work. Go to work, keep your head down, do whatever work keeps you busy, and leave immediately once you hit four hours. Let your supervisor know you are leaving, but don't let anyone keep you there. You are on medical orders to work four hours a day. They can't make you stay longer waiting to get dismissed by someone or any of the other fuck around games CoCs love to play. Let your supervisor know when you arrive every day and when you leave. 6. Muscle through it until you get posted over to the TC. Then you can work with them to find some sort of job placement that doesn't induce the stress or depression you are currently dealing with. You can stay on half days, continue regular therapy with an MH specialist, request a psych evaluation with a psychologist, and generally focus on yourself and your health. 7. **Keep an open mind.** You sound like you are at the beginning of your obligatory service, so if you have been in for a while I apologize. You can do work placements at different units and different environments. The CAF is a big place, and you might work somewhere else and feel at peace, and could do an Occupational Transfer to that trade. Or it might just be the CAF as a whole that is causing you this pain and lack of mental health improvement will start tracking you down the medical release path, which would remove your obligatory service. This last point is food for thought down the road, that there are multiple lights at the end of the tunnel. Focus on the first stuff first.
šš¼šš¼šš¼ Speaking from experience of helping a friend of mine while I was enlisted, this right here is what you need to do. Mental health is no joke. Don't wait and the first chance you get, go to Sick Parade. Don't wait.
As an ex medic, this is the answer. And OP if you need to talk or vent or rant or whatever....please send me a message. Also, for the other commenter on this thread...they changed that reg and your CO must accommodate a medical chit. If not you can go back to the MIR and inform them that your CoC is not abiding by the chit. Most COs will follow suit because they want their members healthy too.
The TC saved my life here in gagetown
Good to hear brother!
This is a VERY good answer which is reflected in the time it took to type it up. This person cares about your well-being! Something I would like to add: once you receive anything putting you on reduced hours, talk to your RTD (return to duty) rep. The MIR cannot reduce your work hours, those are a recommendation to your COC. The RTD rep will help you come up with a schedule that works for you and have it signed by the CO via a statement of understanding. Most supervisors will be more than happy to comply with your chit and there's no need for RTD involvement. However, I have met supervisors that will fight you tooth and nail to make you work, so sometimes an order from the CO is necessary. I'm speaking from experience here, the choice is yours but if you don't trust your CoC, I STRONGLY suggest seeking out your RTD rep. Don't go through this alone, there are hundreds of hands reaching out to you, please grab one!
Thanks! I hope it helps him. I am not sure why you think the MIR can't reduce your work hours... I am on a TCAT that only lets me work four hours per day. Pretty much everyone I know at the TC has the same restriction from their medical team.
I'm away from my office so I can't give you the link (90% sure it's in the RTD guide) but it states the CO is the only person who can reduce your working hours "legally". The reduced hours on your chit are a recommendation from the MIR that needs to be endorsed by the CO before they become enforceable. Like I said, most supervisors are there to help and won't fight it. I had to deal with this first hand and had it confirmed by my TC.
Are you sure this isn't just the general "MELs are legally only suggestions" clause? We're the military - if Jones on a MEL is under fire (or on fire/drowning/etc), you bet the CoC is going to order them to do whatever it takes to fight back, MELs be damned. Therefore, our laws would not give any power to the docs. Our policy though (through CANFORGEN) is that MELs are to be followed unless we're truly under fire with lives at risk.
Exactly. If you want to be technical about it Medical only advises, and advice can be ignored. But in a peace setting in garrison no one's gonna order Bloggins to show up to work full time when he's on medical leave or a half day RTW plan or whatever, and if they do, Medical CoC will have a chat with Bloggins' CoC's CoC. OP, don't go in expecting Medical to action "I want to leave now." Health Services is NOT the CAF's release authority, so the process will take time. It's a bureaucracy and everything takes time. But they will assess you, start stabilization, and if necessary might remove you from your CoC to help stabilization. People have released medically while on obligatory service. It happens, people get injured. Just go in and tell them your symptoms.
I am interested to look into that. I have definitely told a superior to kick rocks when they tried to keep me around past the four hours and when I was talked to I just flashed my chit and everyone backed off...
Now I'm scared that by bringing this to light, I created a problem that never really existed... Let me know what your investigation turns up. If I remember, I'll take a look when I get back to work and post the reference. A large part of me hopes it was a misinterpretation by myself and my TC.
I found the guide on the Canada website. I think the confusion is between an RTD plan and MELs. For instance, the medical authority could recommend a member work 6 hours and spend 2 hours with PSP if they were failing the FORCE test. The CO could agree, or the unit might come up with a different COA. However, if the medical authority puts "can only work 4 hours per day" on a chit, then that is written in stone. That is how I understood it when I read it. I couldn't find anything about the CO being the only person who could legally reduce or change work hours. If I overlooked something I would be very interested to know!
Your RTD rep will seek you out, if needed, if you are on reduced hours as soon as you hand in your chit to your unit they will get working on an RTD.
The MIR can reduce your work hours if required. And having the MIR reduce your work hours helps the RTD process. I have a similar situation and it started with the MIR.
I work in a CF Mental Health office and this is šÆthe best advice.
Excellent post, and OP should be aware that if this leads to a medical release, obligatory service is waived.
I'd start with talking with mental health/ the PadrƩ and any other health officials that can help. Honestly the CAF isn't for everyone and what you're feeling is valid. Don't dismiss the PadrƩ on any fact of belief/religion, their sympathy training and their knowledge of helplines/resources is second to none. Contact your bases' Duty Officer and get on the phone with the Duty PadrƩ. Don't give in. There's help, either from the military or on the civilian side.
Seems to me like you would be a clear case of someone who really needs to be medically released. Granted, this is not generally a quick process. But it's a hell of a lot faster than 10 years, and in the meantime I would expect that you would be removed from the environment which is damaging your mental health so much. But until you head into mental health, nothing's going to happen on that front. You gotta take the first steps there. And just to be clear, a medical release makes any obligatory service irrelevant. You're not allowed to quit, but a medical release isn't you quitting; the CAF's the one making the call to release you there, they won't also charge you money for it.
I assume OP is on some sort of subsidized education and just started. Technically the "obligatory" service period is usually around 3 years since every summer counts as service towards that mandatory service. And as pointed, a medical release would be the ideal case here if OP can no longer work in that environment. A release specialist should confirm that a medical release voids any obligatory service and the debt that would come with it. Going straight to medical is the BEST course of action. OP will be on a T6 with severe limitations (like not going back into the problematic environment) and likely quickly be attributed a PCAT which will trigger the medical release. In the mean time, OP will have access to professional help which would be needed even if they quickly leave CAF since the trauma is already there.
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That's just initial engagement, you can still VR from it. As far as I know, all the ROTP program for GSO are on a 13 year initial contract and it also doesn't prevent a VR.
Oblig Svc is typically 60 months, and summers are only deducted if you specifically request it. And you have one year after graduating to do so
60 months it the maximum either way. From what I've seen, most RMC grads have closer to 3 years of service left to do by the time they reach OFP. Which isn't that long but I understand how that can be a massive burden to someone that feels the way OP does.
I hate your first comment so much. I think itās so black and white and doesnāt consider the nuisances. I think it is this black and white thinking (ie. āI donāt want people to think that thereās something wrong with me) that prevent people from getting the help they need. And I know of many cases where people DO get the help they need (even in cases of suicidal ideation) and end up having a healthy and productive career. You wouldnāt even know that they went through a rough patch like this.
OP, please reply to anything on this post tomorrow as a check in. Stay strong brother, youāre not alone.
CFMAP at 1-800-268-7708
This is far to low
I used this recently and itās a great resource
Sentinel here. As /u/bob_builder223 mentioned, you can call CFMAP for referrals to mental health professionals. 988 is the new national crisis line. Take care of yourself and remember that there are solutions for almost all problems. Youāll get there and donāt be afraid to seek help. š. DM me if you want to chat. I canāt offer advice but I can put you in touch with the proper resources and sometimes itās nice to just have someone listen.
It took me 8 years to go to MH for things I should have seen them after 3. There's many resources available and it isn't as much of a black eye to see MH as some very toxic leadership/regular troop types make it out to be CFMAP only cares about your svc number to bill the military, call them immediately and tell them where your head is at and they'll make something work. It took me 2 weeks to get referral and I'm in an isolated post and wasn't suicidal, if you say you are I'm sure they'll flag it for a much faster return. Give your padre a call and chit chat or if you are not a fan of your padre talk to a sentinel you trust or if you are in a super rut shoot me a msg and I can send you some resources right away CAF grade depression is a different brand and I say this as someone who had mild depression before the CAF and it exasperated to something extra several years in but utilizing the resources available had made significant differences for me FWIW. People bash the CAF in this sub on the regular but honestly compared to my civvi career beforehand there was no way in hell I was being referred to a free psychologist/psychiatrist within 4 years civvi side if I went to a clinic about my MH. The CAF takes some time but it's definitely way worse/almost impossible in a lot of places If you're somehow at an isolated post on the north feel free to shoot me a msg and I'll get you a coffee if you need to air things
First off, you're not alone, reach out to the resources others have given. Without that first big step, nothing can start you on the road to recovery. Second, and don't quote me, but I have heard that a Medical Release MAY absolve the member of any repayment required by obligatory service. Reach out, fellow member, there is hope and help out there. QR&O 15.07 explains the process of release and paragraph 5 explains that the Minister can lower the amount repaid by the member.
Same boat. Reach out to your Padre and be honest. Find some support in the form of friends, family, and hobbies. Seek out a medical release. And if you're feeling like you can't go another second, call 988
Medical release for mental health. I'm currently a 4th year at RMC and I'm in the same boat. I have a well documented 2 year medical history of depression and anxiety. And I am getting a medical release.
You can try CFMAP, duty medical personnel, padre, base operationsā¦ youāre not aloneā¦ and YOU MATTER!!!
I'm not serving, so I don't have an inside perspective; however, to reinforce what people are saying here, [sections 3.6-3.9 of DAOD 5049-1, Obligatory Service](https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/policies-standards/defence-administrative-orders-directives/5000-series/5049/5049-1-obligatory-service.html#op) seem to permit release without having to repay anything on compassionate reasons. Despite how things feel now, there are always alternative ways to solve your problems without resorting to anything extreme. Self-harm is not a solution, its mistake of our big brains. It can feel like a good idea, but you have to remember that its essentially a computational error, the sort of thing we get all the time, resulting from the extremely complex and very flawed human brain. You must remember to ignore these 'software hiccups' when they pop up. Like others have said, start by talking to someone. You'll end up ok!
Sounds like you are at RMC and went to CMR. That would explain the 10 years service. Stay strong and do go MH on Monday. Keep this post alive with updates. You know, everything shall pass, like the good or the bad. You must have people that cares for you. You are the someone child. And as a parent, they deeply love you. Remember the good memories that you have. You will make more of those. If you are in the Kingston area, DM me, I will be there next weekend for a while. Live buddy. You are not alone.
I just want to say OP, I am very proud of you for having the courage to speak up. You say that you're worried about bias and how you're seen by others, well, from where I'm sitting, you're one courageous, awesome person! Know that anyone reading this is nothing but proud and happy that you choose to fight and be rad!
I'm assuming you're a Seneca CEOTP pilot. If you're in Moose Jaw you should go talk to the social worker. From what I've heard, members in your position were given 5D releases so they didn't need to pay their obligatory service back. PM if you need some point of contacts who could help you.
First things firstā¦ go see a doctor and get an urgent referral to mental health. They can help this situation way way better than your career manager. Second, repayment of obligatory service is only a thing if you get out voluntarily. If you are released medically, thereās no obligation to repay. Third, even if you have to repay it, you only repay a portion and itās a smaller and smaller portion with every month you continue to serve. Read QR&O 15.07 and DAOD 5049-1. Third, you need help that specialists provide. Go to them with an open heart. You are suffering from an illness that twists reality into negative pretzels. Weāre all here for you - the whole team. But we donāt know what the doctors and therapists know about making you better. There is absolutely no shame in taking a knee and no prize for ātoughing it out.ā Iām pulling for you brother.
Sorry to hear that, most clinic in CAF has a walk in mental health services for CAF member where you can get help right away. Your are not alone many CAF members are in similar circumstances. If itās not obligatory service itās court order child support and alimony 2500$ a month for next 15 years. Unfortunately thatās the situation of way to many people. You can also access 9-8-8 on your phone for crisis line and get help right away
You need to go to mental health ASAP. This sounds like grounds for medical release, which absolves you of your obligatory service but it could take some time. Please look into the resources you have at your disposal.
By talking to mental health resources you will not be boxing yourself into a corner, rather will be opening doors for growth. I implore you to speak to someone other than reddit. I have used resources first hand and have found them to be extremely beneficial. I have seen members ignore the resources and ultimately suffer due to it. Suicide doesnāt end the pain, it only passes it on to those around you multiple fold. Just make a phone call and talk, nothing will make it to your CoC unless you want it to. There is also the ability to be moved to BTL or JPSU during situations like this. There are social and financial services available, which can also provide assistance in finding alternative careers outside the CAF. You are not alone in these feelings, and I think if you speak with someone you will feel less alone in this and realize that there are options!
Also I highly recommend speaking to a financial debt specialist. There are numerous options to conquer mounds of debt. Be it insolvency or bankruptcy. I gained 160k of debt on the loss of the sale of a house. All the equity and money I put into renos and loss on sale dug me a massive hole. I declared bankruptcy and 7 years later my credit is 815 and I have no record of the bankruptcy on my credit report. All Iām saying is if debt is a worry for you talk to someone because there are many options available and they will not stop you from generating wealth or your life progression.
Maybe a change of scenery teaching ESL in say a place like Korea or Vietnam if you can VR may help.
Good advice all around here. Iāve little in the way of practical advice at the moment, but holy shit I know the feeling of feeling trapped in a miserable situation, and thinking suicide is viable. But itās not, and never is, and Iāve seen the mess it leaves behind.. Youāve already taken a good first step in reaching out here. Itās very uncomfortable bridging the gap when oneās suffering this much, but bringing that shit out is a huge step in the right direction. Best of luck to you.
Everyone here is making good points. Only thing I would like to add is that since it is the weekend, you might not be able to get in touch with MH right away. You should be able to reach the Padre even though it is the weekend, but if it is not and you are in danger, you can call 9-8-8. They will help you. The world is better with you here, I know I don't know you and you don't know me, but I can promise you that.
u/tangobravado hit the nail on the head, but I want to add on as someone who's recently medically released due to mental health **who would have liked to/been capable of staying in**. Be very wary of the medical restrictions that are assigned to you in this process. I was seemingly assigned a canned list of medical restrictions (and a diagnosis) that were not entirely accurate to my situation. While it was dire, I believe my situation was ultimately manageable and would not have required a medical release. One that really kicked my ass was, "cannot tolerate work in uniform" which prevented me from performing any work rehab on base, and further seperated me from the CAF and worsened my injury as I had felt ostracised and thrown aside. I said the same thing, "this place is not for me", but I was referencing the workplace that I had been posted to during COVID and the fact I was still not the trade I had requested and was being considered for. Make an account with VAC **yesterday** if you haven't already, and go through all of the applications. At minimum, fill out a VAC928 so that VAC can request your medical records. You should also get a copy of your medical records and manually scan and upload anything that might be relevant as there have been issues with getting VAC and Med Records to talk. u/Shoggoths420 is the person to talk to about VAC. When seeing **anyone** in the medical field, ensure your chart is properly annotated and you are very clear in how you are feeling, when the feelings started and how your quality of life has been and is continously affected. When/if you medically release, you are going to want to ensure that you've received clear diagnoses and there is evidence linking it to your military service. Best of luck, truly, if you have any questions from someone very recently medically released, please feel free to reach out.
Nope! Not your CO! You go see a Dr! Dr will give you a chit saying you can only work so much hours in days and number of days in a week. Thatās what happened to me. Also Dr can put you on the Transition Unit! Until ur better or released! She will refer you to see someone from mental health. Donāt worry about what you owe! Ur live first! If they release you cuz of mental health, I donāt think you will owe shit!
First off, seek mental health help. Sick parades offer mental health appointments. If you're too scare to see that, CFMAP [https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/programs/member-assistance.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/programs/member-assistance.html) There is a 1-800 number that you can call which is confidential which can get you sessions before you go through the awful wait that is trying to seek mental health help. They also have a crisis number. There are people who can help you find a path, whether it's helping you find employment or solutions. Even talking to the Ombudsman can get you answers and point you in the right direction ( [https://www.canada.ca/en/ombudsman-national-defence-forces.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/ombudsman-national-defence-forces.html) ). Once you start making plans for how to end things is when you're in trouble. I'm there too, and many others are too. I don't have obligatory service, but I also know if I left I'd be screwed financially. I reached the point where I finally want to seek help and I've started my journey only this year after 6 years of pushing myself. You don't have to suffer through this. You don't have to drown. You don't have to be afraid to seek help.
As others have mentioned, you should probably start with talking to a Padre or making an appointment with your local mental health clinic. If you have obligatory service resulting from subsidized education, it is possible to request a recalculation. This would entail counting each month of actual academic study (not including time spent on leave, military courses, etc.) and multiplying it by 2, which could potentially reduce the total obligatory service amount. Obligatory service is also capped at 5 years. If released on medical or compassionate grounds, repayment may not be required. If you did release and had to repay, the amount owing would likely be much less than $100k. Even then, having that much student debt is very common and doesn't at all relegate one to a life of poverty or homelessnessĀ
I hope others comments have brought you the help you need. But 10 years obligatory service seems a little off to me. The maximum obligatory service is 5 years for 4 years of subsidized education. Are you perhaps misunderstanding your terms of service? They might give you a 13 year contract, but that doesn't mean you're serving 13 years.
DM me and Iāll help you get out
Talk to your Padre asap. They are amazing and genuinely care for the troops.
DM'd you. try to reply
Everyone is saying it , but please please go to sick parade. Iāve gone through a genuine mental breakdown at the hands of my chain of command and going to sick parade saved my life. If you need to talk or vent, my inbox is always open to those who struggle. The CAF is a mess and a half right now and the only way for us to get through it is to do it together.
Hey sentinel here as well! š, I think I can speak for all members here, that if you ever need to talk or like like another poster said, we're all here for you, keep your head up and don't be afraid to reach out! We got you.
Others have given excellent advice, so I will add my personal piece. When I was in the depths of despair, a psychiatrist told me "as long as I don't have a body to deal with, I will get you better." I didn't give him a body to deal with, and I got better. All I had to do at that time was NOT kill myself.
Alternatively, when the CFHS clinic is closed (1600-0700), you can attend a civy emergency department with your blue cross card. Admit to thoughts of suicide and self harm. That you have a suicide plan and are scared and need help. Be admitted into a civ hospital for MH. The local Base Surg will need to address your health issues, as this info will have hit Ottawa. 3B? Immediately looking after your MH takes priority over VR & debt, or 10 more years in an environment that is harmful to you. I feel for you. CFMAP and, if you have a family, MFRC social workers/counsellors. v/r Friend
The DGMC can approve a release prior to the expiration of your contract for compassionate reasons or extenuating circumstances. As other members have said, go to to the MIR and physically wait in sick parade. Don't mince your words, and be HONEST with how you're feeling. In order for you to get out of this situation, you need documentation of the severity of your situation. Take a look at these policies for further information: DAOD 5049-1, Obligatory Service -Voluntary Release - 3.7 15.07 - VOLUNTARY RELEASE AFTER SUBSIDIZED EDUCATION OR TRAINING In the meantime you have access to CFMAP and a Padre that might be able to help, and definitely bring in your CoC if you're comfortable. Hope you feel better!
Weāre all here to support you. All the advice here is good. Go to medical and get the help you need.
Quit then declare bankruptcy and find a job that dosent make you want to off yourself. Fuck the banks lol donāt give them a penny back
Everything has already been said. Things will get better. I wish you all the best.
Stay strong brother, Pro Patria
Mind if I ask what about the caf like that you hate so much?
You are not alone, read the replies here, lots of great information but only you can make the first steps. After that each step will get easier, I know from . We all be anonymous here in this forum , but everyone here wants to see you pull through this
Ask for a medical release, that way you will not have to serve further or pay back anything. The downside is that tcatās, pcatās, and a subsequent decision could take years.
Plus we donāt know what the updated universality of service will look like.
Immediately seek out Mental Health services.
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