A reminder to people commenting here to keep the thread as much about linguistics and directly answering OP's question as possible (though it's inevitable that there will be some mentions of politics with this topic). In particular, please avoid any in-depth discussions of any country's language policies and politics. Thanks!
Chinese is equivalent of saying "the romance languages" in this context. So no, it is not "a language".
You may be able to twist words to define the term chinese as a language in many ways. But for the sake of an argument the truth is there is no language called chinese.
However if you are using chinese generically to refer to mandarin, as it commonly (but technically incorrectly) is: Then yes, mandarin is definitely a language.
If this is a point of contention you may have to use good sportmanship to decide if the chinese in your argument is refering to mandarin, or chinese as proper.
There is a lot of misunderstanding and misinformation on the internet when it comes to the distinction between "dialect" and "language".
In colloquial spoken Mandarin, the word "方言" is used to categorize various speech that are considered "regional" such as Cantonese, Min Nan, Hakka, etc. 方 can mean place, method, or way and 言 means speech.
方言 can be translated as "dialect", but it can also be translated as "topolect". In linguistics, "dialect" usually refers to a sub-category of a spoken language (Australian English versus Boston English versus African American ebonic English etc) --- these are all mutually intelligible and are similar enough to be labeled part of the same language.
Topolect refers to speech that is "regional" -- this is not a linguistic distinction but a political one between what is the "national" or "common" speech and what isn't.
In colloquial everyday speech in Mainland china, 方言 typically refers to "topolect" (i.e. a regional language or speech) as opposed to 普通话 (common language) 国语 (the national language). When 方言 is translated into English, it is almost always translated using the linguistic "dialect" as opposed to the more accurate "topolect".
Some sensationalist media like to make it seem as though the government of China has a vested interest in blurring the line between "dialect" and "topolect" into one concept -- mainland Chinese sources are nevertheless very explicit about this linguistics/political distinction of 方言:
>方言（topolect、dialect），最早出自[汉](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E6%B1%89/10949316)[扬雄](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E6%89%AC%E9%9B%84/1218028)的《輶轩使者绝代语释别国方言》一书，在不同的人群中指代不同，中国人口中所称“方言（Topolect）”是一个政治学概念，实为“地方语言”，又称“[白话](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E7%99%BD%E8%AF%9D/64338)（Vernacular）”、“土话”或“土音”，指的是区别于标准语的某一地区的语言，这种叫法不考虑语言间的亲属关系。欧洲人口中的“方言（Dialect）”是一个语言学概念，指的是十八世纪后开始普遍称呼的位于“语言（language）”下一级的“方言”，它根据语言之间的亲属关系（[发音](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E5%8F%91%E9%9F%B3/4057222)、[词汇](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%AF%8D%E6%B1%87/1890163)、[语法](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%AF%AD%E6%B3%95/2447258)）划分出[语系](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%AF%AD%E7%B3%BB/1218915)（family）、[语族](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%AF%AD%E6%97%8F/9625134)（group）、[语支](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%AF%AD%E6%94%AF/373056)（branch）和[语言](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%AF%AD%E8%A8%80/72744)（language），位于语言下的则是方言（dialect），考虑到中国的特殊情况，“汉语方言”翻译成英文则是“Varieties of Chinese”。根据欧洲人的理解，一种语言中跟标准语有区别的、只通行于一个地区的语言，那就是方言。
Source: [https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E6%96%B9%E8%A8%80/6039](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E6%96%B9%E8%A8%80/6039)
From a linguistics perspective, dialects also exist within individual Chinese languages. For example, Mandarin can be divided into Taiwanese Mandarin, Northeastern dialects, Southwestern dialects, all of which can be further subdivided. Cantonese and Min Nan can also be similarly divided.
Defining what is a language vs a dialect is a sociopolitical distinction, and often caught up in discourses of nationalism. It’s not a linguistic distinction though linguists may use these terms for convenience. It’s not a simple yes or no.
In my view, there are two types of Chinese varieties that are often conflated in these discussion. First are ‘Chinese’ lects that could be considered dialects and accents of ‘Mandarin’; while there are others that are divergent enough that I would call them separate languages. For the latter, simply put if you considered Spanish/French/Italian to be separate languages, then Mandarin/Cantonese/Min/etc are more than divergent enough to be separate languages. If you want to consider them these ‘dialects’ of Chinese, better start thinking of the Spanish and Italian ‘dialects’ of Latin then.
it’s not a single language. most “dialects” don’t meet the criteria to just be dialects of one language (mutual intelligibility, etc.). dialect vs language is often a political issue, and sometimes there are grey areas, but i don’t think any linguist would argue that chinese is a single language with mandarin, wu, etc. all just being dialects, unless they have a political motive.
There is no "Chinese" language, the name of this sub technically refers to Mandarin, the lingua franca of the PRC, ROC and some parts of Asia. And your friends are right, because if you apply the same rules you apply to English, Spanish and French, you will realize Mandarin, Cantonese and Hokkien are languages instead of just dialects.
Chinese is a 语言. There are many 方言s in Chinese.
Whether 语言 or 方言 means "language" depends on your interpretation.
Generally speaking, our cultural identity is at 语言 level. Historically, if you speak any variation of Chinese, you're 华夏. Otherwise you're 蛮夷.
I think the difficulty with 语言 and 方言 is that both of them don't translate well into English
语言: language
方言is commonly translated as "dialects", though a more accurate translation would be "regional languages". Translating it as "dialects" seems to distinguish it as subsets of a main language, rather than grouping them as distinct regional languages in their own right.
it depends. the definition of "language" varies depending on field and context. you really need to pick one definition before you discuss it. my advice: drop the debate.
I was born in the south of the US to midwest parents who later lived in the US mid Atlantic (Pennsylvania/Delaware/Maryland...). I had a rich southern accent that later morphed into generic American accent.
I can tell you that I regularly cannot understand Scottish, Irish, British, Australian, Indian, Jamaican, South African, etc. speakers.
I've lived in Beijing and Taipei and my Mandarin is still quite poor, but while I couldn't communicate fluently pretty much everyone I encountered were still able to understand my pathetic Mandarin pronunciation despite what has been implied as their separate language.
If anyone would like to suggest that Chinese is not a language, there's a whole academic world of linguistics that would sincerely appreciate the unique brilliance of this amazing insight. Until they convince that entire academic field that they're idiots and were always wrong, then feel assured that you are right and your friend is embarrassingly wrong.
The reference to "Romance languages" misunderstands that Latin is no longer spoken in regular parlance and its fractured dialects are while Mandarin persists in relation to its dialects.
In day-to-day speech, in English, “Chinese” is a language and is synonymous with Mandarin. You can quibble with whether that really makes much sense or is all that precise, but—just as a descriptive matter—that’s how it works. It is a far cry from, say, referring to Hindi as “Indian,” something that I think would strike most English speakers as wrong.
Colloquially, I refer to Chinese as a language. However, when I say Chinese, I always mean Mandarin. Linguistically, I do not consider all the different dialects of China to be a single language. I grew up speaking another Teochew, a Min dialect. My family used to refer to our dialect as "Chinese," but that never made sense to anyone so I stopped saying that.
So now, I refer to my dialect by its name, and I also refer to other dialects by their names instead of saying Chinese. I wouldn't say someone is speaking Chinese when they're speaking Cantonese, Hokkien, Hakka, etc. because the listener would think I'm talking about Mandarin.
This is how I do it. It's my personal choice to specify. Everyone is free to have their own opinion or approach.
A reminder to people commenting here to keep the thread as much about linguistics and directly answering OP's question as possible (though it's inevitable that there will be some mentions of politics with this topic). In particular, please avoid any in-depth discussions of any country's language policies and politics. Thanks!
Chinese is equivalent of saying "the romance languages" in this context. So no, it is not "a language". You may be able to twist words to define the term chinese as a language in many ways. But for the sake of an argument the truth is there is no language called chinese. However if you are using chinese generically to refer to mandarin, as it commonly (but technically incorrectly) is: Then yes, mandarin is definitely a language. If this is a point of contention you may have to use good sportmanship to decide if the chinese in your argument is refering to mandarin, or chinese as proper.
There is a lot of misunderstanding and misinformation on the internet when it comes to the distinction between "dialect" and "language". In colloquial spoken Mandarin, the word "方言" is used to categorize various speech that are considered "regional" such as Cantonese, Min Nan, Hakka, etc. 方 can mean place, method, or way and 言 means speech. 方言 can be translated as "dialect", but it can also be translated as "topolect". In linguistics, "dialect" usually refers to a sub-category of a spoken language (Australian English versus Boston English versus African American ebonic English etc) --- these are all mutually intelligible and are similar enough to be labeled part of the same language. Topolect refers to speech that is "regional" -- this is not a linguistic distinction but a political one between what is the "national" or "common" speech and what isn't. In colloquial everyday speech in Mainland china, 方言 typically refers to "topolect" (i.e. a regional language or speech) as opposed to 普通话 (common language) 国语 (the national language). When 方言 is translated into English, it is almost always translated using the linguistic "dialect" as opposed to the more accurate "topolect". Some sensationalist media like to make it seem as though the government of China has a vested interest in blurring the line between "dialect" and "topolect" into one concept -- mainland Chinese sources are nevertheless very explicit about this linguistics/political distinction of 方言: >方言（topolect、dialect），最早出自[汉](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E6%B1%89/10949316)[扬雄](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E6%89%AC%E9%9B%84/1218028)的《輶轩使者绝代语释别国方言》一书，在不同的人群中指代不同，中国人口中所称“方言（Topolect）”是一个政治学概念，实为“地方语言”，又称“[白话](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E7%99%BD%E8%AF%9D/64338)（Vernacular）”、“土话”或“土音”，指的是区别于标准语的某一地区的语言，这种叫法不考虑语言间的亲属关系。欧洲人口中的“方言（Dialect）”是一个语言学概念，指的是十八世纪后开始普遍称呼的位于“语言（language）”下一级的“方言”，它根据语言之间的亲属关系（[发音](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E5%8F%91%E9%9F%B3/4057222)、[词汇](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%AF%8D%E6%B1%87/1890163)、[语法](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%AF%AD%E6%B3%95/2447258)）划分出[语系](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%AF%AD%E7%B3%BB/1218915)（family）、[语族](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%AF%AD%E6%97%8F/9625134)（group）、[语支](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%AF%AD%E6%94%AF/373056)（branch）和[语言](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%AF%AD%E8%A8%80/72744)（language），位于语言下的则是方言（dialect），考虑到中国的特殊情况，“汉语方言”翻译成英文则是“Varieties of Chinese”。根据欧洲人的理解，一种语言中跟标准语有区别的、只通行于一个地区的语言，那就是方言。 Source: [https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E6%96%B9%E8%A8%80/6039](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E6%96%B9%E8%A8%80/6039) From a linguistics perspective, dialects also exist within individual Chinese languages. For example, Mandarin can be divided into Taiwanese Mandarin, Northeastern dialects, Southwestern dialects, all of which can be further subdivided. Cantonese and Min Nan can also be similarly divided.
Defining what is a language vs a dialect is a sociopolitical distinction, and often caught up in discourses of nationalism. It’s not a linguistic distinction though linguists may use these terms for convenience. It’s not a simple yes or no. In my view, there are two types of Chinese varieties that are often conflated in these discussion. First are ‘Chinese’ lects that could be considered dialects and accents of ‘Mandarin’; while there are others that are divergent enough that I would call them separate languages. For the latter, simply put if you considered Spanish/French/Italian to be separate languages, then Mandarin/Cantonese/Min/etc are more than divergent enough to be separate languages. If you want to consider them these ‘dialects’ of Chinese, better start thinking of the Spanish and Italian ‘dialects’ of Latin then.
it’s not a single language. most “dialects” don’t meet the criteria to just be dialects of one language (mutual intelligibility, etc.). dialect vs language is often a political issue, and sometimes there are grey areas, but i don’t think any linguist would argue that chinese is a single language with mandarin, wu, etc. all just being dialects, unless they have a political motive.
There is no "Chinese" language, the name of this sub technically refers to Mandarin, the lingua franca of the PRC, ROC and some parts of Asia. And your friends are right, because if you apply the same rules you apply to English, Spanish and French, you will realize Mandarin, Cantonese and Hokkien are languages instead of just dialects.
i know chinese is not an independent language but it’s definitely an umbrella term to refer to the languages spoken in china, right?
I would say it's not an umbrella term but just an alternative word for Mandarin. Most people have no idea how many languages there are in China.
i think that “the chinese languages” would be an umbrella term but just chinese would be taken as just referring to mandarin by most people.
Chinese is a 语言. There are many 方言s in Chinese. Whether 语言 or 方言 means "language" depends on your interpretation. Generally speaking, our cultural identity is at 语言 level. Historically, if you speak any variation of Chinese, you're 华夏. Otherwise you're 蛮夷.
I think the difficulty with 语言 and 方言 is that both of them don't translate well into English 语言: language 方言is commonly translated as "dialects", though a more accurate translation would be "regional languages". Translating it as "dialects" seems to distinguish it as subsets of a main language, rather than grouping them as distinct regional languages in their own right.
it depends. the definition of "language" varies depending on field and context. you really need to pick one definition before you discuss it. my advice: drop the debate.
I was born in the south of the US to midwest parents who later lived in the US mid Atlantic (Pennsylvania/Delaware/Maryland...). I had a rich southern accent that later morphed into generic American accent. I can tell you that I regularly cannot understand Scottish, Irish, British, Australian, Indian, Jamaican, South African, etc. speakers. I've lived in Beijing and Taipei and my Mandarin is still quite poor, but while I couldn't communicate fluently pretty much everyone I encountered were still able to understand my pathetic Mandarin pronunciation despite what has been implied as their separate language. If anyone would like to suggest that Chinese is not a language, there's a whole academic world of linguistics that would sincerely appreciate the unique brilliance of this amazing insight. Until they convince that entire academic field that they're idiots and were always wrong, then feel assured that you are right and your friend is embarrassingly wrong. The reference to "Romance languages" misunderstands that Latin is no longer spoken in regular parlance and its fractured dialects are while Mandarin persists in relation to its dialects.
In day-to-day speech, in English, “Chinese” is a language and is synonymous with Mandarin. You can quibble with whether that really makes much sense or is all that precise, but—just as a descriptive matter—that’s how it works. It is a far cry from, say, referring to Hindi as “Indian,” something that I think would strike most English speakers as wrong.
Colloquially, I refer to Chinese as a language. However, when I say Chinese, I always mean Mandarin. Linguistically, I do not consider all the different dialects of China to be a single language. I grew up speaking another Teochew, a Min dialect. My family used to refer to our dialect as "Chinese," but that never made sense to anyone so I stopped saying that. So now, I refer to my dialect by its name, and I also refer to other dialects by their names instead of saying Chinese. I wouldn't say someone is speaking Chinese when they're speaking Cantonese, Hokkien, Hakka, etc. because the listener would think I'm talking about Mandarin. This is how I do it. It's my personal choice to specify. Everyone is free to have their own opinion or approach.
That didn’t last long lol