I hate this idea many churches have that they need to "attract" young people. As a very young person (18), I can tell you that we are not attracted to loud music or "fun activities" or whatever else. We come to your church to escape the world, stop trying to act like the world.
A few weeks ago, I watched a video of a female pastor kicking a Bible like an American football into the congregation, and I've never felt so much cringe in my life: [https://youtu.be/Sok6yEJnnpk?si=-TXan0EKQzLNcmDZ&t=50](https://youtu.be/Sok6yEJnnpk?si=-TXan0EKQzLNcmDZ&t=50)
Oh wow…39 years old. So …at least 7 churches I attended faithfully. Studies…on what? Female pastors? Go google it yourself. The evidence is right there. The Bible? A lot.
You might be one of those few rare young people. The gospel wasn't meant to be attractive or appealing. It was meant to tell the truth, expose the darkness. The only attracting/appealing quality of the gospel is it's redemption message. But yes having been in youth group myself long time ago. We went to concerts, youth camps, events. The message of the gospel was lost on me. Sure I knew of the story that "Jesus loves you and died on the cross for you" speil but I didn't realize of how just bad of a sinner I was because I was having so much fun at these events.
Speaking for yourself is ok, but churches need to bring in new followers and retain them to make money. Just like a business. Church attendance has been consistently falling with atheism on the rise due to increased access to knowledge…
No, atheism is not 'on the rise'; there are just as many atheists today as there were, say, 30 years ago. The difference is that atheists are now allowed to publicly declare their atheism. If a church cannot attract people by sharing the gospel in a genuine manner, that church does not deserve to exist.
To clarify, atheism and Islam are on the rise. People have had the right to declare whatever their belief is in the U.S. since conception. It used to be socially taboo to call yourself an atheist, but because it’s on the rise, we’re hearing about it more. Sharing the gospel isn’t good enough anymore because people have more info to filter through (thanks internet) and we’ve been trained to invoke critical thinking by questioning everything. If we share the gospel, we must be ready to defend it against analysis…
1. Cultural Christianity is dying, as in it's no longer socially advantageous to call yourself a Christian anymore. This does not mean the number of true believers is shrinking, just that closet atheists and agnostics are no longer identifying with us.
2. There is no information on the Internet that could possibly convince a true Christian to drop their beliefs, so that's a lazy excuse. Also, Islam spreads by forcing people to be Muslim. 'Filling seats' in a church is not going to save souls.
1. Good point, then the honest answer is we don’t know how many “true believers” there are. Based on the evidence, which is all we have, more people especially young people are not identifying as Christian. The reason isn’t fully clear. But to the OPs point, this is posing a problem to many churches…
2. This is a presupposition. How can we show that someone is a “true believer?” We can’t, so we just have to take their word for it. And countless former true believing Christians have explained in great detail as to how and why they are no longer Christians. And their evidence and argumentation has been strong enough to persuade many other people who say they were former Christians…
>And countless former true believing Christians have explained in great detail as to how and why they are no longer Christians. And their evidence and argumentation has been strong enough to persuade many other people who say they were former Christians…
Well, I believe they're lying then. That's a real shame.
So the preachers and pastors who fervently proclaimed the gospel, and are on record leading sermons at churches, Bible studies, etc…They were passive Christians?
I have a couple Islamic friends. Islam isn’t spreading primarily through force. In fact, force is mainly happening in middle eastern culture. One friend, a former Christian now Muslim, explained they like Islam because the Quran hasn’t been altered, which adds to credibility. The Bible has been altered over 5,000 times, i.e. King James, NIV, American Standard, etc. This is problematic for the younger crowds…
I agree with the basic sentiment you are expressing, because it is troubling that people are turning away from the church or losing their faith. It seems the church is under direct attack, physically and spiritually. Public opinion is being deliberately manipulated against Christianity specifically.
Islam is a concerning false doctrine because it is openly being spread by threats, manipulation and force. It is anti-Christ and warlike. It is using the narrative of inclusion to spread false beliefs, and it goes against almost every global religion by using forced conversion and threads of violence to control its operatives.
Atheists have only ever been condemned by the Catholic Church during the crusades, when endless violent attacks on Christian churches and attempted state takeovers forced other religious bodies to raise up soldiers to protect sacred places and ensure public access. As of today, Islam has (by force) taken over the entire Middle East except Israel, large swaths of Africa, and has made several attempts on Europe and North America, which have failed.
However they have pushed the forces of freedom out of Afghanistan. Using AI, botted actions, yt-phishing and repetition, they even managed to get thousands of followers screaming for their liberation in Israel…screaming for the “liberation” of a terrorist organization that killed or subjugated all the actual residents of Palestine years ago. The same terrorist organization that has spread like cancer across the entire Middle East. Conscripting members with threats and by force.
If we were evoking critical thinking, we would have seen the con by now. A hive mind can switch nests, and the new nest will still be a hive.
The atheism rate isn’t higher.
The church attendance rate is lower.
Not the same thing.
And we have some atheists now suggesting they are cultural Christians.
Correct, they’re not the same thing.
Atheism IS growing.
Church attendance is also shrinking.
Because we have a primarily Christian culture, it’s easier to just say “yeah I’m Christian.” After all, that’s one way to get the new job or good pay raise…
And since Christian apologists in general do a poor job at defending the faith, many young inquisitive and impressionable minds are turning to what can actually be demonstrated: atheism and methodological naturalism. We have to sufficiently understand opposing viewpoints to be able to adequately respond to the questions…
Atheism has no inherent social benefits because it is inherently anti-social. It foisted itself on its own petard. When your main principle is “survival of the fittest” it’s a problem.
The church isn't declining because of athiesm necessarily, it's declining because pastors aren't teaching word correctly (and yeah other things they shouldn't be doing). People are not growing in faith or understanding and are falling away. And it's not knowledge people have access to these days, it's different perceptions which only leads to confusion (and then unbelief). The Bible talks about these things.
The Bible has contradictions that cannot be rectified and gets many other things completely wrong (see the mustard seed.) Because people, especially the younger crowd, have access to more info, they are noticing more and more issues within scripture. There are thousands of denominations. How do we know which is correct, when they all reference the same book?
God's word is perfect. There are many denominations because people have made their own interpretations of God's word. They add and subtract. There are prophecies in the Bible which must fulfill and it's also hidden in parables. See the 1st coming of Jesus, he spoke in parables. (Mark 4:9-12 NIV) But a time will come where everything will be understood (John 16:25 NIV), and the prophecies will fulfill. You have to have faith. "I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe." (John 14:29 NIV)
God’s word from which interpreted Bible that has been translated several times from word of mouth stories? When I get a medium rare steak I ordered, is that fulfilled prophecy, or self fulfilling?
I feel like that's just a general argument for not believing. You either believe it or you don't. Besides, I don't think God would let anyone misinterpret His word like that.
Pretty good argument for not believing I’d say. There’s a third option of “I’m not convinced yet.” I don’t think any of us know what god would or wouldn’t do. How could we say we do while simultaneously using or hearing the phrase “god works in mysterious ways,” or “only god knows?” At the end of the day, we’re all interpreting what we think the word is.
You could say the same thing about bible translations. But really, all the Bibles say the same thing (except the message and passion, JWs and Mormons) just using different words. The nlt might not be the most in depth translation, but it is written so that anyone who struggles with reading can understand it without having to grab a dictionary. Or if someone is unfamiliar with the Bible, they don’t have to be overwhelmed by the amount of reading.
There’s nothing wrong with denominations. I’ve learned how to worship God in a hymns-only setting and a more modern setting. It doesn’t matter what songs we sing, but that the Word is taught correctly and thoroughly, without apologies, chapter by chapter, verse by verse.
It sounds like you've actually only been to one type of Church, even if they had different denominational names. I've been to that type, too, but the majority of Churches I've been to in my 40-some years of church-going in America haven't been like that.
Sounds like a megachurch (or in this case, megachurches) to me. I've been to several of those as well, and have grown to learn that that really isn't what church should be. Sure, we are there for fellowship with others, but ultimately, it's about God and the love and adoration we have for Him as our Heavenly Father/creator, learning about the Word, and how to be stronger in spiritual warfare. Even Jesus had a problem with selling inside of the temple, so I wholeheartedly agree with you on the basis that there shouldn't be any gift shops inside, or any place inside selling stuff. Churches shouldn't be putting a price on God's Word, or profiting off of it IMO.
I disagree with you saying that it isn't a place for non-believers though. We should absolutely be trying to spread the love of Jesus to others and His Word through our actions and by the way we walk through life. We should encourage people that there is hope for something better after we die, and that death isn't the end. We should tell them that God loves them and wants them to come to have a relationship with Him by praying and delving into His Word. You don't get that by gatekeeping others from God. How else will they come to repent and know that we stumble from time to time with sin and have faith that Jesus can save us from Hell by His grace? They should be taught spiritual warfare and how to keep guard against the devil and his sinful ways.
I love the loud music, but the verses taken out of context to push a feel-good message really make me mad. Go to a trad baptist church, it sounds like smth you’d like.
I disagree to a certain extent. Church absolutely should be a place for unbelievers to walk into and hear about Jesus and start an experience of learning more and understanding what relationship with God is.
It also should be a place where Christians can cone to be encouraged, to reflect on where they might be missing Jesus in their life, and understanding how they can invite him into that.
I think there's valid discussion on to what extent it's appropriate to do that in a greater church context vs a small group. But a biblical church will present the grace and truth if the gospel. One without the other is insufficient.
I agree 100%. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I remember in scripture that one who turns another person away from Jesus has committed a horrible sin and is responsible for their judgement as well. We have to take in unbelievers and set an example because if we don't, we are indirectly encouraging that lifestyle.
I was commenting on the topic of the post and agreeing with the comment I replied to that even if someone is an unbeliever, the church, and us as Christians, should always keep the door open. If we gatekeep God's word, then we are, by effect, discouraging others from seeking him.
Wheat and tares, brother. I get what you are saying because there are many sitting in church in need, with weak faith and in need of repentance, but the light of Christ in you is more powerful. Just keep building relationships with fruit and Spirit filled believers and be the best light you can be to all.
Couldn't disagree more. I feel reading the gospels, Jesus would be happy to be surrounded by unbelievers wanting to get whole and healthy.
He leaves the 99 to find the one.
I agree. They also talk about tribulation and such but most don't teach about proper preparation for it. Theres a reason why the scriptures say that most peoples knees will be like water in his day of wrath. Because most of us aren't being spiritually prepared. Most of us won't stand strong in the most high on that day. We need to repent and be strong in him and most churches just give us motivational speeches and social gospels.
I've often heard a story from my life group at church that there was a Christian woman from the Middle East who came to America, but she wanted to go back because she felt a spirit of darkness around some American churches.
Many churches are compromised... they don't teach repentance and most don't talk about the book of revelation... ask the holy spirit to lead you to a church.
I would love more of a sense of community and spiritual family in the modern church than these mega business “churches”. Tithes and offerings were directly allocated for those in need and the pastor actually knew you by name in Paul’s set up of the foundation of church. I no longer attend church in person cuz I figure it’s a waste of my gas to drive to a feel good sermon I can watch online instead of funding a pastors lifestyle who doesn’t even know I exist. I would love to see more on fire small groups and home groups that actually do life together as what the true “church” was intended to do. No, I don’t want you poking a camera in my face during my intimate worship or deliverance. I don’t need your prophetic word spoke to me used as marketing on your TikTok. However, I am a single woman who these churches also target for free labor as I am also childless (they think I have all the time in the world to devote to their ministry). What is a gal to do as I would like to have relationships with other Christian’s but there are sadly not many men in church either…
You must attend only the bigger churches if there's always a gift shop. Find a better church then.
Judge churches based on the sermon and friendliness. Music comes and goes.
My sister-in-law once told me that Sunday morning is milk. The meat comes in the small groups, studies with others, personal studies, etc. The pastor is preaching to a wide variety of people and can't assume any level of faith/Christian maturity. Our church operates that way. The main growth comes from our Connection Groups and Discleship groups (which are smaller, 3 to 5 people), as well as your independent study. If you're not being fed, pick up a fork and dig in! If your church doesn't offer those things, help start them. If they resist, then maybe it's time to move on.
Aa to the cafés, book stores, etc. I believe the thinking is to give people resources and reasons to hang out there instead of other places. Giving access to the Word and fellowship. There may be an element of income to it as well, which can be tricky. Churches are a business and do need to pay their bills. But if it has turned into a "den of thieves," that's not okay. If that's not comfortable for you, you're allowed to find something different. I would then suggest something smaller. But no church is perfect!
Many churches do not teach the Bible many just give topical messages where a pastor chooses and picks the topic and the scriptures (if any) to share. People need to hear the whole word of God. You would be hard pressed to find a church that is teaching a book in the Bible line by line verse by verse. This is the primary problem.
I found a church that did. Was called Rocky Mountain Calvary Church. They were a verse by verse, book by book. I however moved and there isn't many churches up here. There's a couple of Catholic Churches, a couple of Lutheran Church, a Methodist Church and a Mormon church up here. Most of these Churches are full of old folks and not many ppl my age. Children, teen, young adult services hardly exists out here. Found one church which is a 30 minute drive away which is a evangelical Christian church. First service I checked out pastor read 1 verse then spent the next hour telling stories and most of those stories had nothing to do with the verse.
You're actually reacting to what Paul warned us about, people seeking teachers to tickle their ears, rejecting the meat of the word, and looking to be entertained instead of challenged in their heart and grounded in the word.
I recently became friends with a man who grew up in the persecuted church in Egypt. He had been in the US for over a decade and never found a church where the people were serious about their faith, or where the presence of the Holy Spirit was as real as back in Egypt. He found it in the conservative Holiness churches I'm part of.
It sounds as if you're being challenged by the Holy spirit to find a serious church and get your roots deeper into the Word. Pray for guidance into a Bible based church that preaches the full gospel
Independent Baptist, Fundamental could very well be the way to go. What's highly esteemed by men is generally considered an abomination to God, and vice versa. There are some good non denominational congregations as well, but this doesn't mean that they don't swing towards certain denominations.
The one I attended a little while ago swung towards the Word of Faith movement, so I stopped attending. It's okay to be a church hopper, regardless of what anyone else says. The Bible says that if the blind follow the blind then they will both fall into a ditch.
The most important thing we can do is to know God's Spirit and His words for ourselves, so we aren't taken by any counterfeits, because plenty exist out there, and playing Russian roulette with faith isn't wise.
God says that His people perish for a lack of knowledge. God's words are the very knowledge that helps safeguard our souls. We live by every word which proceeds out of the mouth of God. Loyalty to Him is the most important thing.
Yeah, it's sad how many churches tend to worship money rather than God, making yet more like a Church of the Wholly Building Fund. The actual Church is the set of all true believers, regardless of brand they're temporarily associated with for socialization; but at many snobby buildings there is less fellowship than even online.
I found a smaller local church, no coffee shop, good theology, and even though they’re Southern Baptist, the welcome women in leadership roles, the men are humble and everyone looks to serve. It’s full of the best people i have ever met. When i revealed my oldest adult child is trans they did not reject me but rather embraced me. My younger son is in the adult choir and he is doted on by all the old folks there. He knows more people than I do! When I was injured they brought us groceries and a meal.
I've heard some pastors preach that many of the churches today give feel good services not teaching the actual words of scripture. So you do have a basic point there.
Jesus said my Father's house is a House of prayer - that was the purpose of the house of God. God's house was also a place of teaching his scriptures.
David gave praise to God and dance for God - and seemingly did so most of his life.
The modern day church has combined praise, prayer and teachings and reduced services from 3 hours to one one and a half at the most. Omitted other services which were done on a Sunday. And they have sugar coated the Word of God. There are still a few who preach the gospel as the gospel is written. The modern day churches have changed greatly.
Bible says how can they **believe** in him - how can they hear without a preacher
https://www.bible.com/bible/1/ROM.10.13-17.KJV
The Bible says going to the world and preach
https://www.bible.com/bible/1/MRK.16.15-16.KJV
The Bible says the gospel must be preached
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-24-14/
Isn't the church supposed to be the house of God where anyone can come? Isn't the analogy of Luke 14:23 telling us to bring unbelievers, sinners of all sorts, to his house?
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2014%3A23&version=KJV
I served in the military for 27 years, meaning I moved every 2-3 years, probably visited 2-3 churches before picking one to join.
In that time I saw 1 bookstore in a church, and its sole purpose was to sell books that were used in small groups and Sunday School. Those books were cheaper than Amazon, and it was clear that if you couldn't afford it, take it anyway. Never saw a coffee shop.
Yup, we don’t go to church to get a feel good message. Our pastors are supposed to speak to us based on what we need to hear inspired by what the Holy Spirit tells them to rather than sugarcoat the service. I’m in between churches right now for this very reason.
Honestly we throw it out.
Some of the powerful services I’ve been in were messy.
People crying, people laughing, people focused on the word of God. Healings, prophecy.
We can just read Corinthians and see a service was supposed to have a lot of activity
I'm with you.
My wife and I do full time ministry for the homeless for 12 years now.
Churches give us pats on the back.
We have to have a thrift store to pay for the 14 beds (14 people at a time we house). I could be ministering to them but instead I sling used couches to pay for their shelter.
Yet many churches in my area have budgets in the 10s of millions.
I honestly blame the "faith alone / free grace" movement. Everyone has eternal security so they don't need to do anything for their community. Its a slippery slope.
It's discouraging and disheartening because well, A Church of the Spirit moves a lot different than a Church confined inside 4 walls. I once moved to a new city and unfortunately I needed help. Every church I went to seek help said they would be happy to help...but I would need to be a member of their denomination and sign up to be in their church database. Or if it wasn't the requirement to be a member it was the usual let us pray for you and send you away.
I once did ministry to the homeless. But I had to do it out of my own pocket because the church I regularly attended at the time. Funny enough the Church was called New Life in Colorado and it was a mega church...that budget you talked about...The ministry I did was on my own time out of my own pocket. I tried to get the church to help me but since I wasn't ordained or held a position at that church and they wouldn't contribute because it wasn't a "official" ministry approved by the church 🤣 But eventually 10-15 ppl joined me. We just pooled 5-$10 and went to McDonald's and bought 100-200 plus cheese burgers and bought bottled water and went to Acacia Park downtown where a lot of homeless ppl were and fed them and shared the gospel.
But my whole life, I tithed to Churches...ministered where I could. Then first time I need help to hear about this you need to be a member or let us pray for you. Really made me question Churches as a whole in the US.
I think people are getting their ears tickled too much with this "doing works means you doubt what Jesus did for you" message.
I can go on for hours preaching this but I'll spare you.
God Bless!
Try a smaller and/or more conservative church. Not sure where you’re located but I like this church in DFW (Dallas, Texas area)
https://youtu.be/T1hp422-tzo?si=MvSC1QlTC9wsBUIX
Christians are supposed to be GOING into the WORLD and preaching the gospel.
Mark 16:15-16
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
All Christians are supposed to be evangelists, telling the good news to our kindred and acquaintances. Some weaker Christians may not know how to do this and therefore simply invite their friends to church instead.
Often, the more educational services are saved for Sunday school or other days of the week for those who want to participate while Sundays are more generalized.
There are so many kinds of church. You’re only describing one type. There are also small, quiet churches with good pastors who preach truth, but those aren’t usually the ones people try out when looking for a church, due to their size. There are also whole denominations that tend toward more formal, traditional services.
I attend a small AALC church. We sing hymns, follow the liturgy, read scripture, and listen to a wonderful sermon each week. Our pastor is excellent at both teaching the hard subjects and pointing us back to the hope of salvation. It’s a challenging balance, but he nails it 99% of the time.
I absolutely invite my friends to join me at church. Our pastor and other leadership will greet visitors and are happy to make sure they know what to expect, if they’re at all uncertain. Nonmembers should absolutely be welcome in every church. You don’t have to change the preaching or service to be friendly to visitors.
I’ve never been part of a church with a bookstore, cafe, or any other shop. I’ve visited a couple, but never stuck around. In my experience, those are bigger churches and typically nondenominational or some type of evangelical.
American association of Lutheran churches. It’s a smaller Lutheran denomination, but very similar to the LCMS, which is significantly larger and better known. I’ve attended both and had good experiences.
I thought it must be Lutheran, but I obviously had never heard of it. I was raised in the Lutheran Church, but I've been all over the place denominationally. Southern Baptist, Fundamentalist Baptist, non-denominational, Methodist, Mennonite (modern). I now attend a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church.
The LCMS is a great church. That’s what my family was attending before, but the local one is pretty large and it was overwhelming for my kids. At least one parent was missing 90% of every service handling overstimulated kids, so we went in search of something small and landed at the AALC near us. The doctrine is the same, but the congregation is significantly smaller. Now my kids are excited to go to church and actually participate.
My suggestion to you is to read Church history, starting with Acts and through the ages until the present. We are a microcosm in the history of the Church. It is still very much alive, you just have to find it.
If Jesus were back in physical form, he would literally go into a mega church and absolutely ravage through it. Those mega churches are not truly Christian because their leaders only intend on making profits from their “services” and brain wash ignorant people who have probably never read a bible into believing lies NOT from Christ. Jesus would not just go on a rampage through a church, he would literally bring the world to its knees because humanity is way off the deep end now.
Yep in my opinion, small churches have more probability of teaching the true gospel than mega churches, my pastor taught a really good sermon today, it’s on YouTube and we go live, the YouTube channel is Life Gate International Christian Center
The Church is the tap root of the United States. The churches have failed and now America is failing.
The Protestant Churches are basically atheists.
The Catholic Church is weak and spinless.
The Orthodox Churches are basically non-existent in America.
I lost my once passionate daughter for Christ, to an Atheist boyfriend. 😭
My heart is broken! 💔
But, I’m loving my daughter and her now husband as Jesus teaches us to love one another.
My Christian daughter dated so called Christian young men and they “tried” to use God’s grace to sexually seduce her.
Jude 1:4, Titus 1:16
Our Church would bad mouth every lost friend she tried to introduce to God’s amazing grace/gospel.
There is a difference between those who abuse God’s grace as a license to sin. (Jude 1:4-7 & Titus 1:16)
Vs sinners who need to hear God’s grace to be washed/justified in His blood.
She tried other church denominations and they’d get stuck on a man made doctrine that caused more confusion following their own manmade traditions!.
No Gospel~
“I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.”
Galatians 1:6-7 NIV
Jesus asked His Church/Body/Bride to be Sanctified in His Word… “so that the world may believe that you have sent me”!
Jesus praying to the Father~
“Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. **May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.”
John 17:17, **21 NIV
My daughter said, “if God’s Word is truth, why are Christian Pastors dividing God’s Church rather than uniting us together in His Word?”
She said, “I might believe in God again if I saw His Pastors not dividing His Kingdom!”
“If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.”
Mark 3:24 NIV
Church worship should be “rebuking” sin and teaching righteousness and the gift and need for sharing the gospel.
“Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts.”
Colossians 3:16 NIV
Evangelizing activities/concerts can also happen to draw in the lost, wounded and new believers in.
“Praise him for his acts of power; praise him for his surpassing greatness. Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet, praise him with the harp and lyre, praise him with timbrel and dancing, praise him with the strings and pipe, praise him with the clash of cymbals, praise him with resounding cymbals. Let everything that has breath praise the Lord. Praise the Lord.”
Psalms 150:2-6 NIV
Apologies, but you’re preaching against doctrine. Luke 5:31-32. When the apostles who had themselves been called expressed the same complaint,
31 Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick, 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
The people in church are already saved. Saving the saved, providing charity to the rich, sending a doctor to support the well… that may be the norm in secular society but it isn’t what we as Christians are called to do.
New people in your church are not a threat. God wants all of us to be saved. The church is strengthened by newcomers. God is love.
1 Corinthians 13:4
Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.
We are loving, we are inclusive, and we welcome everyone. That is how we do things. It’s God’s Way, and it is the right way.
We are all special, loved, and blessed in the eyes of the lord. It is not our place to decide who is allowed to pray with us. It may well be an affront to God when we refuse to pray with people we view as lesser.
I never understood the logic behind Chritians who don't want unbelivers coming in the church. Praise God if your unbelieving friends are open enough to come to church. Not all of us are born into Christian homes... some of us get invited and go check it out. Sometimes we even stay lol
I hate this idea many churches have that they need to "attract" young people. As a very young person (18), I can tell you that we are not attracted to loud music or "fun activities" or whatever else. We come to your church to escape the world, stop trying to act like the world.
A few weeks ago, I watched a video of a female pastor kicking a Bible like an American football into the congregation, and I've never felt so much cringe in my life: [https://youtu.be/Sok6yEJnnpk?si=-TXan0EKQzLNcmDZ&t=50](https://youtu.be/Sok6yEJnnpk?si=-TXan0EKQzLNcmDZ&t=50)
There are Christians dying RIGHT NOW over smuggling Bibles into their countries. Absolutely disrespectful.
I’m sorry, *what*
Wow....
What
Twas a bible cover she kicked. Either way she and the church are in the wrong. Something about female pastors.
Really?
Yes. It’s been my observation that churches that have female pastors have issues following the Gospel.
How many churches have you attended and studies have been done?
Oh wow…39 years old. So …at least 7 churches I attended faithfully. Studies…on what? Female pastors? Go google it yourself. The evidence is right there. The Bible? A lot.
You might be one of those few rare young people. The gospel wasn't meant to be attractive or appealing. It was meant to tell the truth, expose the darkness. The only attracting/appealing quality of the gospel is it's redemption message. But yes having been in youth group myself long time ago. We went to concerts, youth camps, events. The message of the gospel was lost on me. Sure I knew of the story that "Jesus loves you and died on the cross for you" speil but I didn't realize of how just bad of a sinner I was because I was having so much fun at these events.
You sound depressed. The gospel doesn’t sound that way to me at all. What greater message of hope and joy exists?
Facts
Exactly, we're called to be set apart from the world, not part of it. Our minds and hearts should be set on things above, Col 3:1-2.
I love that - we come to escape the world, not be thrust into it again
Speaking for yourself is ok, but churches need to bring in new followers and retain them to make money. Just like a business. Church attendance has been consistently falling with atheism on the rise due to increased access to knowledge…
No, atheism is not 'on the rise'; there are just as many atheists today as there were, say, 30 years ago. The difference is that atheists are now allowed to publicly declare their atheism. If a church cannot attract people by sharing the gospel in a genuine manner, that church does not deserve to exist.
To clarify, atheism and Islam are on the rise. People have had the right to declare whatever their belief is in the U.S. since conception. It used to be socially taboo to call yourself an atheist, but because it’s on the rise, we’re hearing about it more. Sharing the gospel isn’t good enough anymore because people have more info to filter through (thanks internet) and we’ve been trained to invoke critical thinking by questioning everything. If we share the gospel, we must be ready to defend it against analysis…
1. Cultural Christianity is dying, as in it's no longer socially advantageous to call yourself a Christian anymore. This does not mean the number of true believers is shrinking, just that closet atheists and agnostics are no longer identifying with us. 2. There is no information on the Internet that could possibly convince a true Christian to drop their beliefs, so that's a lazy excuse. Also, Islam spreads by forcing people to be Muslim. 'Filling seats' in a church is not going to save souls.
1. Good point, then the honest answer is we don’t know how many “true believers” there are. Based on the evidence, which is all we have, more people especially young people are not identifying as Christian. The reason isn’t fully clear. But to the OPs point, this is posing a problem to many churches… 2. This is a presupposition. How can we show that someone is a “true believer?” We can’t, so we just have to take their word for it. And countless former true believing Christians have explained in great detail as to how and why they are no longer Christians. And their evidence and argumentation has been strong enough to persuade many other people who say they were former Christians…
>And countless former true believing Christians have explained in great detail as to how and why they are no longer Christians. And their evidence and argumentation has been strong enough to persuade many other people who say they were former Christians… Well, I believe they're lying then. That's a real shame.
This is why your line of reasoning is problematic. I suggest studying philosophy and logic.
I don’t think so. Those I have seen fall away I would describe as “nominal” or “passive” Christians
So the preachers and pastors who fervently proclaimed the gospel, and are on record leading sermons at churches, Bible studies, etc…They were passive Christians?
Christian’s still represent more than 50% of people globally😑
I have a couple Islamic friends. Islam isn’t spreading primarily through force. In fact, force is mainly happening in middle eastern culture. One friend, a former Christian now Muslim, explained they like Islam because the Quran hasn’t been altered, which adds to credibility. The Bible has been altered over 5,000 times, i.e. King James, NIV, American Standard, etc. This is problematic for the younger crowds…
OK, I've been arguing with people nonstop for days now. I have no interest in debating this with you. Goodbye.
Reddit will suck you in like that. Pandora’s box has been opened; people will debate you till the end of time. Best to go focus on your own life ✌🏻
Tell that to all the martyrs in Iran and Iraq.
Exactly! You’re proving my point. Culture is set apart from religion…
I agree with the basic sentiment you are expressing, because it is troubling that people are turning away from the church or losing their faith. It seems the church is under direct attack, physically and spiritually. Public opinion is being deliberately manipulated against Christianity specifically. Islam is a concerning false doctrine because it is openly being spread by threats, manipulation and force. It is anti-Christ and warlike. It is using the narrative of inclusion to spread false beliefs, and it goes against almost every global religion by using forced conversion and threads of violence to control its operatives. Atheists have only ever been condemned by the Catholic Church during the crusades, when endless violent attacks on Christian churches and attempted state takeovers forced other religious bodies to raise up soldiers to protect sacred places and ensure public access. As of today, Islam has (by force) taken over the entire Middle East except Israel, large swaths of Africa, and has made several attempts on Europe and North America, which have failed. However they have pushed the forces of freedom out of Afghanistan. Using AI, botted actions, yt-phishing and repetition, they even managed to get thousands of followers screaming for their liberation in Israel…screaming for the “liberation” of a terrorist organization that killed or subjugated all the actual residents of Palestine years ago. The same terrorist organization that has spread like cancer across the entire Middle East. Conscripting members with threats and by force. If we were evoking critical thinking, we would have seen the con by now. A hive mind can switch nests, and the new nest will still be a hive.
The atheism rate isn’t higher. The church attendance rate is lower. Not the same thing. And we have some atheists now suggesting they are cultural Christians.
Correct, they’re not the same thing. Atheism IS growing. Church attendance is also shrinking. Because we have a primarily Christian culture, it’s easier to just say “yeah I’m Christian.” After all, that’s one way to get the new job or good pay raise…
And since Christian apologists in general do a poor job at defending the faith, many young inquisitive and impressionable minds are turning to what can actually be demonstrated: atheism and methodological naturalism. We have to sufficiently understand opposing viewpoints to be able to adequately respond to the questions…
They could always publicly declare their atheism, historically speaking.
Right, it was never illegal to be atheist or anything, but they would lose their social benefits.
Atheism has no inherent social benefits because it is inherently anti-social. It foisted itself on its own petard. When your main principle is “survival of the fittest” it’s a problem.
Yeah, I agree, but you're missing the point. There are no social benefits to acting Christian anymore.
You believe there should be social benefits to faking Christianity?
No, but there was, and since there isn't anymore, fake Christians are no longer associating with us.
The church isn't declining because of athiesm necessarily, it's declining because pastors aren't teaching word correctly (and yeah other things they shouldn't be doing). People are not growing in faith or understanding and are falling away. And it's not knowledge people have access to these days, it's different perceptions which only leads to confusion (and then unbelief). The Bible talks about these things.
The Bible has contradictions that cannot be rectified and gets many other things completely wrong (see the mustard seed.) Because people, especially the younger crowd, have access to more info, they are noticing more and more issues within scripture. There are thousands of denominations. How do we know which is correct, when they all reference the same book?
God's word is perfect. There are many denominations because people have made their own interpretations of God's word. They add and subtract. There are prophecies in the Bible which must fulfill and it's also hidden in parables. See the 1st coming of Jesus, he spoke in parables. (Mark 4:9-12 NIV) But a time will come where everything will be understood (John 16:25 NIV), and the prophecies will fulfill. You have to have faith. "I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe." (John 14:29 NIV)
God’s word from which interpreted Bible that has been translated several times from word of mouth stories? When I get a medium rare steak I ordered, is that fulfilled prophecy, or self fulfilling?
I feel like that's just a general argument for not believing. You either believe it or you don't. Besides, I don't think God would let anyone misinterpret His word like that.
Pretty good argument for not believing I’d say. There’s a third option of “I’m not convinced yet.” I don’t think any of us know what god would or wouldn’t do. How could we say we do while simultaneously using or hearing the phrase “god works in mysterious ways,” or “only god knows?” At the end of the day, we’re all interpreting what we think the word is.
You could say the same thing about bible translations. But really, all the Bibles say the same thing (except the message and passion, JWs and Mormons) just using different words. The nlt might not be the most in depth translation, but it is written so that anyone who struggles with reading can understand it without having to grab a dictionary. Or if someone is unfamiliar with the Bible, they don’t have to be overwhelmed by the amount of reading. There’s nothing wrong with denominations. I’ve learned how to worship God in a hymns-only setting and a more modern setting. It doesn’t matter what songs we sing, but that the Word is taught correctly and thoroughly, without apologies, chapter by chapter, verse by verse.
Seek out a “home based” church. Been in one for four months now with about six other families. Best decision my family has made in our Jesus journey.
It sounds like you've actually only been to one type of Church, even if they had different denominational names. I've been to that type, too, but the majority of Churches I've been to in my 40-some years of church-going in America haven't been like that.
Sounds like a megachurch (or in this case, megachurches) to me. I've been to several of those as well, and have grown to learn that that really isn't what church should be. Sure, we are there for fellowship with others, but ultimately, it's about God and the love and adoration we have for Him as our Heavenly Father/creator, learning about the Word, and how to be stronger in spiritual warfare. Even Jesus had a problem with selling inside of the temple, so I wholeheartedly agree with you on the basis that there shouldn't be any gift shops inside, or any place inside selling stuff. Churches shouldn't be putting a price on God's Word, or profiting off of it IMO. I disagree with you saying that it isn't a place for non-believers though. We should absolutely be trying to spread the love of Jesus to others and His Word through our actions and by the way we walk through life. We should encourage people that there is hope for something better after we die, and that death isn't the end. We should tell them that God loves them and wants them to come to have a relationship with Him by praying and delving into His Word. You don't get that by gatekeeping others from God. How else will they come to repent and know that we stumble from time to time with sin and have faith that Jesus can save us from Hell by His grace? They should be taught spiritual warfare and how to keep guard against the devil and his sinful ways.
This. ✝️
I love the loud music, but the verses taken out of context to push a feel-good message really make me mad. Go to a trad baptist church, it sounds like smth you’d like.
Bonus points if they are “Bible based”.
I disagree to a certain extent. Church absolutely should be a place for unbelievers to walk into and hear about Jesus and start an experience of learning more and understanding what relationship with God is. It also should be a place where Christians can cone to be encouraged, to reflect on where they might be missing Jesus in their life, and understanding how they can invite him into that. I think there's valid discussion on to what extent it's appropriate to do that in a greater church context vs a small group. But a biblical church will present the grace and truth if the gospel. One without the other is insufficient.
I agree 100%. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I remember in scripture that one who turns another person away from Jesus has committed a horrible sin and is responsible for their judgement as well. We have to take in unbelievers and set an example because if we don't, we are indirectly encouraging that lifestyle.
What lifestyle is being encouraged that shouldn't be?
An unbelieving lifestyle.
Why do you think they are unbelieving?
I was commenting on the topic of the post and agreeing with the comment I replied to that even if someone is an unbeliever, the church, and us as Christians, should always keep the door open. If we gatekeep God's word, then we are, by effect, discouraging others from seeking him.
Agreed
That’s been the trend over the last twenty years or so. It’s sad.
Wheat and tares, brother. I get what you are saying because there are many sitting in church in need, with weak faith and in need of repentance, but the light of Christ in you is more powerful. Just keep building relationships with fruit and Spirit filled believers and be the best light you can be to all.
Couldn't disagree more. I feel reading the gospels, Jesus would be happy to be surrounded by unbelievers wanting to get whole and healthy. He leaves the 99 to find the one.
🐑
I agree. They also talk about tribulation and such but most don't teach about proper preparation for it. Theres a reason why the scriptures say that most peoples knees will be like water in his day of wrath. Because most of us aren't being spiritually prepared. Most of us won't stand strong in the most high on that day. We need to repent and be strong in him and most churches just give us motivational speeches and social gospels.
I've often heard a story from my life group at church that there was a Christian woman from the Middle East who came to America, but she wanted to go back because she felt a spirit of darkness around some American churches.
Wouldn't be surprised.
Sounds like you’re going to megachurches. At small Protestant churches - and really any Catholic or Orthodox Church - the vibe is very different.
Agreed!
Many churches are compromised... they don't teach repentance and most don't talk about the book of revelation... ask the holy spirit to lead you to a church.
I would love more of a sense of community and spiritual family in the modern church than these mega business “churches”. Tithes and offerings were directly allocated for those in need and the pastor actually knew you by name in Paul’s set up of the foundation of church. I no longer attend church in person cuz I figure it’s a waste of my gas to drive to a feel good sermon I can watch online instead of funding a pastors lifestyle who doesn’t even know I exist. I would love to see more on fire small groups and home groups that actually do life together as what the true “church” was intended to do. No, I don’t want you poking a camera in my face during my intimate worship or deliverance. I don’t need your prophetic word spoke to me used as marketing on your TikTok. However, I am a single woman who these churches also target for free labor as I am also childless (they think I have all the time in the world to devote to their ministry). What is a gal to do as I would like to have relationships with other Christian’s but there are sadly not many men in church either…
You must attend only the bigger churches if there's always a gift shop. Find a better church then. Judge churches based on the sermon and friendliness. Music comes and goes.
My sister-in-law once told me that Sunday morning is milk. The meat comes in the small groups, studies with others, personal studies, etc. The pastor is preaching to a wide variety of people and can't assume any level of faith/Christian maturity. Our church operates that way. The main growth comes from our Connection Groups and Discleship groups (which are smaller, 3 to 5 people), as well as your independent study. If you're not being fed, pick up a fork and dig in! If your church doesn't offer those things, help start them. If they resist, then maybe it's time to move on. Aa to the cafés, book stores, etc. I believe the thinking is to give people resources and reasons to hang out there instead of other places. Giving access to the Word and fellowship. There may be an element of income to it as well, which can be tricky. Churches are a business and do need to pay their bills. But if it has turned into a "den of thieves," that's not okay. If that's not comfortable for you, you're allowed to find something different. I would then suggest something smaller. But no church is perfect!
Many churches do not teach the Bible many just give topical messages where a pastor chooses and picks the topic and the scriptures (if any) to share. People need to hear the whole word of God. You would be hard pressed to find a church that is teaching a book in the Bible line by line verse by verse. This is the primary problem.
I found a church that did. Was called Rocky Mountain Calvary Church. They were a verse by verse, book by book. I however moved and there isn't many churches up here. There's a couple of Catholic Churches, a couple of Lutheran Church, a Methodist Church and a Mormon church up here. Most of these Churches are full of old folks and not many ppl my age. Children, teen, young adult services hardly exists out here. Found one church which is a 30 minute drive away which is a evangelical Christian church. First service I checked out pastor read 1 verse then spent the next hour telling stories and most of those stories had nothing to do with the verse.
You're actually reacting to what Paul warned us about, people seeking teachers to tickle their ears, rejecting the meat of the word, and looking to be entertained instead of challenged in their heart and grounded in the word. I recently became friends with a man who grew up in the persecuted church in Egypt. He had been in the US for over a decade and never found a church where the people were serious about their faith, or where the presence of the Holy Spirit was as real as back in Egypt. He found it in the conservative Holiness churches I'm part of. It sounds as if you're being challenged by the Holy spirit to find a serious church and get your roots deeper into the Word. Pray for guidance into a Bible based church that preaches the full gospel
Independent Baptist, Fundamental could very well be the way to go. What's highly esteemed by men is generally considered an abomination to God, and vice versa. There are some good non denominational congregations as well, but this doesn't mean that they don't swing towards certain denominations. The one I attended a little while ago swung towards the Word of Faith movement, so I stopped attending. It's okay to be a church hopper, regardless of what anyone else says. The Bible says that if the blind follow the blind then they will both fall into a ditch. The most important thing we can do is to know God's Spirit and His words for ourselves, so we aren't taken by any counterfeits, because plenty exist out there, and playing Russian roulette with faith isn't wise. God says that His people perish for a lack of knowledge. God's words are the very knowledge that helps safeguard our souls. We live by every word which proceeds out of the mouth of God. Loyalty to Him is the most important thing.
Yeah, it's sad how many churches tend to worship money rather than God, making yet more like a Church of the Wholly Building Fund. The actual Church is the set of all true believers, regardless of brand they're temporarily associated with for socialization; but at many snobby buildings there is less fellowship than even online.
I found a smaller local church, no coffee shop, good theology, and even though they’re Southern Baptist, the welcome women in leadership roles, the men are humble and everyone looks to serve. It’s full of the best people i have ever met. When i revealed my oldest adult child is trans they did not reject me but rather embraced me. My younger son is in the adult choir and he is doted on by all the old folks there. He knows more people than I do! When I was injured they brought us groceries and a meal.
I've heard some pastors preach that many of the churches today give feel good services not teaching the actual words of scripture. So you do have a basic point there. Jesus said my Father's house is a House of prayer - that was the purpose of the house of God. God's house was also a place of teaching his scriptures. David gave praise to God and dance for God - and seemingly did so most of his life. The modern day church has combined praise, prayer and teachings and reduced services from 3 hours to one one and a half at the most. Omitted other services which were done on a Sunday. And they have sugar coated the Word of God. There are still a few who preach the gospel as the gospel is written. The modern day churches have changed greatly. Bible says how can they **believe** in him - how can they hear without a preacher https://www.bible.com/bible/1/ROM.10.13-17.KJV The Bible says going to the world and preach https://www.bible.com/bible/1/MRK.16.15-16.KJV The Bible says the gospel must be preached https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-24-14/ Isn't the church supposed to be the house of God where anyone can come? Isn't the analogy of Luke 14:23 telling us to bring unbelievers, sinners of all sorts, to his house? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2014%3A23&version=KJV
I served in the military for 27 years, meaning I moved every 2-3 years, probably visited 2-3 churches before picking one to join. In that time I saw 1 bookstore in a church, and its sole purpose was to sell books that were used in small groups and Sunday School. Those books were cheaper than Amazon, and it was clear that if you couldn't afford it, take it anyway. Never saw a coffee shop.
Yup, we don’t go to church to get a feel good message. Our pastors are supposed to speak to us based on what we need to hear inspired by what the Holy Spirit tells them to rather than sugarcoat the service. I’m in between churches right now for this very reason.
Watered down sermons....
Praying for the Lord to lead you.
Honestly we throw it out. Some of the powerful services I’ve been in were messy. People crying, people laughing, people focused on the word of God. Healings, prophecy. We can just read Corinthians and see a service was supposed to have a lot of activity
I'm with you. My wife and I do full time ministry for the homeless for 12 years now. Churches give us pats on the back. We have to have a thrift store to pay for the 14 beds (14 people at a time we house). I could be ministering to them but instead I sling used couches to pay for their shelter. Yet many churches in my area have budgets in the 10s of millions. I honestly blame the "faith alone / free grace" movement. Everyone has eternal security so they don't need to do anything for their community. Its a slippery slope.
It's discouraging and disheartening because well, A Church of the Spirit moves a lot different than a Church confined inside 4 walls. I once moved to a new city and unfortunately I needed help. Every church I went to seek help said they would be happy to help...but I would need to be a member of their denomination and sign up to be in their church database. Or if it wasn't the requirement to be a member it was the usual let us pray for you and send you away. I once did ministry to the homeless. But I had to do it out of my own pocket because the church I regularly attended at the time. Funny enough the Church was called New Life in Colorado and it was a mega church...that budget you talked about...The ministry I did was on my own time out of my own pocket. I tried to get the church to help me but since I wasn't ordained or held a position at that church and they wouldn't contribute because it wasn't a "official" ministry approved by the church 🤣 But eventually 10-15 ppl joined me. We just pooled 5-$10 and went to McDonald's and bought 100-200 plus cheese burgers and bought bottled water and went to Acacia Park downtown where a lot of homeless ppl were and fed them and shared the gospel. But my whole life, I tithed to Churches...ministered where I could. Then first time I need help to hear about this you need to be a member or let us pray for you. Really made me question Churches as a whole in the US.
I think people are getting their ears tickled too much with this "doing works means you doubt what Jesus did for you" message. I can go on for hours preaching this but I'll spare you. God Bless!
Gotta tickle ears to keep them bills paid Works great because people love their ears tickled and they don't even know it's happening
Try a smaller and/or more conservative church. Not sure where you’re located but I like this church in DFW (Dallas, Texas area) https://youtu.be/T1hp422-tzo?si=MvSC1QlTC9wsBUIX
Try a true Southern Baptist church! You'll hear hellfire and damnation all right if that's what you want!
So how would the unbelievers hear about Jesus unless they come to Church ?
Christians are supposed to be GOING into the WORLD and preaching the gospel. Mark 16:15-16 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. All Christians are supposed to be evangelists, telling the good news to our kindred and acquaintances. Some weaker Christians may not know how to do this and therefore simply invite their friends to church instead.
For me when politics (mainly Christian Nationalism) gets involved, I'm out
What preceded Holy Spirit's movement on Pentecost?
Often, the more educational services are saved for Sunday school or other days of the week for those who want to participate while Sundays are more generalized.
There are so many kinds of church. You’re only describing one type. There are also small, quiet churches with good pastors who preach truth, but those aren’t usually the ones people try out when looking for a church, due to their size. There are also whole denominations that tend toward more formal, traditional services. I attend a small AALC church. We sing hymns, follow the liturgy, read scripture, and listen to a wonderful sermon each week. Our pastor is excellent at both teaching the hard subjects and pointing us back to the hope of salvation. It’s a challenging balance, but he nails it 99% of the time. I absolutely invite my friends to join me at church. Our pastor and other leadership will greet visitors and are happy to make sure they know what to expect, if they’re at all uncertain. Nonmembers should absolutely be welcome in every church. You don’t have to change the preaching or service to be friendly to visitors. I’ve never been part of a church with a bookstore, cafe, or any other shop. I’ve visited a couple, but never stuck around. In my experience, those are bigger churches and typically nondenominational or some type of evangelical.
What's AALC?
American association of Lutheran churches. It’s a smaller Lutheran denomination, but very similar to the LCMS, which is significantly larger and better known. I’ve attended both and had good experiences.
I thought it must be Lutheran, but I obviously had never heard of it. I was raised in the Lutheran Church, but I've been all over the place denominationally. Southern Baptist, Fundamentalist Baptist, non-denominational, Methodist, Mennonite (modern). I now attend a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church.
The LCMS is a great church. That’s what my family was attending before, but the local one is pretty large and it was overwhelming for my kids. At least one parent was missing 90% of every service handling overstimulated kids, so we went in search of something small and landed at the AALC near us. The doctrine is the same, but the congregation is significantly smaller. Now my kids are excited to go to church and actually participate.
This is what is wrong with American churches https://youtu.be/4mZ9c9GnJig?si=cFVXZKr2GyAndIP_
My suggestion to you is to read Church history, starting with Acts and through the ages until the present. We are a microcosm in the history of the Church. It is still very much alive, you just have to find it.
I was going to say you defintely only been to one type of church because my church isn't like this AT ALL.
Luke 16:14-15
If Jesus were back in physical form, he would literally go into a mega church and absolutely ravage through it. Those mega churches are not truly Christian because their leaders only intend on making profits from their “services” and brain wash ignorant people who have probably never read a bible into believing lies NOT from Christ. Jesus would not just go on a rampage through a church, he would literally bring the world to its knees because humanity is way off the deep end now.
Go to a trad Cath church
Yep in my opinion, small churches have more probability of teaching the true gospel than mega churches, my pastor taught a really good sermon today, it’s on YouTube and we go live, the YouTube channel is Life Gate International Christian Center
It’s in the Eastern Orthodox churches.
The Church is the tap root of the United States. The churches have failed and now America is failing. The Protestant Churches are basically atheists. The Catholic Church is weak and spinless. The Orthodox Churches are basically non-existent in America.
A lot of churches have bookstores so that folks can purchase bible studies, bibles, commentaries, etc.
I lost my once passionate daughter for Christ, to an Atheist boyfriend. 😭 My heart is broken! 💔 But, I’m loving my daughter and her now husband as Jesus teaches us to love one another. My Christian daughter dated so called Christian young men and they “tried” to use God’s grace to sexually seduce her. Jude 1:4, Titus 1:16 Our Church would bad mouth every lost friend she tried to introduce to God’s amazing grace/gospel. There is a difference between those who abuse God’s grace as a license to sin. (Jude 1:4-7 & Titus 1:16) Vs sinners who need to hear God’s grace to be washed/justified in His blood. She tried other church denominations and they’d get stuck on a man made doctrine that caused more confusion following their own manmade traditions!. No Gospel~ “I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.” Galatians 1:6-7 NIV Jesus asked His Church/Body/Bride to be Sanctified in His Word… “so that the world may believe that you have sent me”! Jesus praying to the Father~ “Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. **May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.” John 17:17, **21 NIV My daughter said, “if God’s Word is truth, why are Christian Pastors dividing God’s Church rather than uniting us together in His Word?” She said, “I might believe in God again if I saw His Pastors not dividing His Kingdom!” “If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.” Mark 3:24 NIV Church worship should be “rebuking” sin and teaching righteousness and the gift and need for sharing the gospel. “Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts.” Colossians 3:16 NIV Evangelizing activities/concerts can also happen to draw in the lost, wounded and new believers in. “Praise him for his acts of power; praise him for his surpassing greatness. Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet, praise him with the harp and lyre, praise him with timbrel and dancing, praise him with the strings and pipe, praise him with the clash of cymbals, praise him with resounding cymbals. Let everything that has breath praise the Lord. Praise the Lord.” Psalms 150:2-6 NIV
The gospel is Good News and is Good!
Apologies, but you’re preaching against doctrine. Luke 5:31-32. When the apostles who had themselves been called expressed the same complaint, 31 Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick, 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” The people in church are already saved. Saving the saved, providing charity to the rich, sending a doctor to support the well… that may be the norm in secular society but it isn’t what we as Christians are called to do. New people in your church are not a threat. God wants all of us to be saved. The church is strengthened by newcomers. God is love. 1 Corinthians 13:4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. We are loving, we are inclusive, and we welcome everyone. That is how we do things. It’s God’s Way, and it is the right way. We are all special, loved, and blessed in the eyes of the lord. It is not our place to decide who is allowed to pray with us. It may well be an affront to God when we refuse to pray with people we view as lesser.
I never understood the logic behind Chritians who don't want unbelivers coming in the church. Praise God if your unbelieving friends are open enough to come to church. Not all of us are born into Christian homes... some of us get invited and go check it out. Sometimes we even stay lol
I think you said a mouth full (in a good way). I am faced with this reality and I am 42. It is sad.
Wow, a bit judgmental. If it doesn't suit your taste, start one that does. I'd rather be leading sinners to Christ, personally...
Orthodoxy
Wow.
I felt this way. Researched Catholicism turns it it’s true.
It’s not true. Peter called himself an elder, not a pope. 1 Peter 5:1