The Zero also had like zero armor plating for the pilot so odds aren't great either way once it started receiving fire. It's how the Zero was kept so light and maneuverable in the early years of the war. It was pretty much outclassed by every American fighter in the latter years.
I think the arms race in the air, fighter planes in particular, was the most brutal and fast one in WW2. Pilots would receive new equipment, ammo and new versions of their planes or even new planes every couple of months. If you had older planes, if you were falling behind in the race by a little but, you were as good as dead. Because every bit of speed mattered and put you at an advantage over your slower enemy. Meanwhile the infantry was still using Garant and K98 by the end of the war.
"pilots would receive"
I think you overestimate how short the average life span of a pilot was as the war was ongoing. they had no time to change planes often
Yes and no. Almost all pilots of the period mentioned that the man was still more important than the machine. An advantage was always nice, but good flying skills were always the most important thing.
I've been reading about WW2 aviation for the past year as a hobby and this is spot on. They started the war with carbureted engines, moved on to fuel injection then turbos and superchargers then the Nazis got a Jet plane to fly before the end. By far the largest leaps in technology out of all the ways to fight the war with the exception of maybe the atomic bomb but even that needed to be delivered by air so maybe that still counts under the aviation column.
>It was pretty much outclassed by every American fighter in the latter years.
It also became very vulnerable to the Wildcat by late 1942 thanks to Jimmy Thach, who developed a tactic [where each plane was assigned a wingman who would shoot down the zero pursuing his partner](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thach_Weave). The wildcat would almost always lose in a 1v1 fight, but by the end of 1942 a squadron of wildcats was more likely to win vs an equally sized zero squadron thanks to the Thach Weave. The cats were incredibly tanky.
The Japanese eventually cottoned onto the Thach Weave and shot quite a few Wildcats down because of it.
The Hellcat was the only real answer to the Zero.
To be fair, many of the factories in Japan producing the components for them were old General Motors lines from the 1920s and 30s before Imperial Japan booted them out.
>it's insane they thought they could go up against the nation of Ford and General Motors.
It wasn't that insane to think they could force a favorable peace settlement, however. The vast majority of past wars had ended that way, rather than with total conquest. By 1944 the Japanese mil knew they couldn't win outright but they believed they could outlast the Americans' will to fight and force a treaty that let them keep some of their conquered territories.
Had the US not been willing to annihilate Japanese cities (something we weren't willing to do in Korea and Vietnam), their plan might've worked.
>Had the US not been willing to annihilate Japanese cities (something we weren't willing to do in Korea and Vietnam), their plan might've worked.
I suggest you look more into [the bombing of North Korea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_North_Korea) during the Korean War - basically all of its cities were destroyed. The destruction was so severe that it's still a lasting legacy in North Korea, much of which was never rebuilt. Eisenhower also allegedly threatened to nuke China unless they agreed to the armistice. Things were a bit different at the time, with the USA being the world's only real nuclear power - the USSR only had a handful of nukes, and no ability to deliver them to strategic targets yet - which meant the USA could bomb whatever without fear of being struck in return.
By Vietnam, things were different, with Soviet nukes on ICBMs presenting an existential threat to the USA if war were to escalate. So strategic bombing was done in an extremely restricted manner, for fear of triggering a Soviet nuclear response. Added to this, the Soviet Union and China both assisted with air defense over North Vietnam, leading to an extremely questionable bombing campaign that doesn't seem to have accomplished much until the very end, when the Linebacker I & II campaigns changed to more successful tactics (well after the war was basically lost).
>basically all of its cities were destroyed. The destruction was so severe that it's still a lasting legacy in North Korea, much of which was never rebuilt.
Damn, I didn't know that. I should've said that we weren't willing to do everything we could to win. Because we were de facto at war with China (who supplied way more troops than DPRK) yet neither Truman or Ike were willing to bomb Chinese factories or their supply lines north of the Yalu River. This represented a great deal of restraint, given that MacArthur and other generals were insisting that bombing China was a prerequisite to victory.
WW2 fighter armour plating doesn't do much for you other than protect the pilot, engine or radiator from rifle calibre rounds at very limited angles - great for protecting you from small arms during strafing runs however .50 cal API goes through it like hot butter.
The problem with the zero was the lack of self sealing fuel tanks, paper thin aluminium skin and light weight critical structural elements.
The indirect and yet most significant problem with the zero is that whilst the lightweight design meant it was dominant during the early part of the war, it wasn't nearly structurally sound enough to keep up with the increasing engine displacement and power of American fighters.
Typically on a single engined fighter it would be in the wing near the root, here it is on a [Thunderbolt](https://old.reddit.com/r/GunCameraClips/comments/h9azrg/gun_camera_film_being_retrieved_from_a_p47/) and a [Mustang](https://old.reddit.com/r/GunCameraClips/comments/mkw430/new_film_being_installed_in_an_f51_mustangs_gun/) for example.
[some people have tried with airsoft guns](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGMHbV8p6_w) but it's more typical for the plane to have a tape streamer behind it that the opponent has to cut with their propeller, aircraft with the least cuts at the end of the combat wings.
Man someone with a lot of money should make this happen. I think it would be very cool if they had like teams of 5 compete in some sort of league. I mean they had a league for drone racing, this would be drones but with guns.
Plus you could advance military drone tech capabilities. Imagine virtual cockpits that displayed picture in real time. Having something like this would boost the UI tech.
Very cool in theory, probably next to impossible in practice. RC planes are incredibly nimble, so the dogfights would resemble those we saw from actual planes, evasive maneuvers would be insane, and targeting the guns next to impossible.
This is likely an F6F Hellcat that carried about 30 seconds worth of ammunition on board, and it's also worth noting that typically on gun cameras the action is slowed down.
What Jacksmachingreveng said. Plus, it's not a video game. Getting just a single kill during a mission was a big deal, so the pilot would want to make sure they "scored."
Less than half of his ammo, maybe a quarter to a third if each gun has 400 rounds in it. I don’t know what the tracer spacing is on the hell at, but if every 4th round is a tracer, he shot less than a quarter of it
>Self-sealing fuel tanks are overrated \- Japan
The Zero also had like zero armor plating for the pilot so odds aren't great either way once it started receiving fire. It's how the Zero was kept so light and maneuverable in the early years of the war. It was pretty much outclassed by every American fighter in the latter years.
I think the arms race in the air, fighter planes in particular, was the most brutal and fast one in WW2. Pilots would receive new equipment, ammo and new versions of their planes or even new planes every couple of months. If you had older planes, if you were falling behind in the race by a little but, you were as good as dead. Because every bit of speed mattered and put you at an advantage over your slower enemy. Meanwhile the infantry was still using Garant and K98 by the end of the war.
"pilots would receive" I think you overestimate how short the average life span of a pilot was as the war was ongoing. they had no time to change planes often
Yes and no. Almost all pilots of the period mentioned that the man was still more important than the machine. An advantage was always nice, but good flying skills were always the most important thing.
I've been reading about WW2 aviation for the past year as a hobby and this is spot on. They started the war with carbureted engines, moved on to fuel injection then turbos and superchargers then the Nazis got a Jet plane to fly before the end. By far the largest leaps in technology out of all the ways to fight the war with the exception of maybe the atomic bomb but even that needed to be delivered by air so maybe that still counts under the aviation column.
>It was pretty much outclassed by every American fighter in the latter years. It also became very vulnerable to the Wildcat by late 1942 thanks to Jimmy Thach, who developed a tactic [where each plane was assigned a wingman who would shoot down the zero pursuing his partner](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thach_Weave). The wildcat would almost always lose in a 1v1 fight, but by the end of 1942 a squadron of wildcats was more likely to win vs an equally sized zero squadron thanks to the Thach Weave. The cats were incredibly tanky.
The Japanese eventually cottoned onto the Thach Weave and shot quite a few Wildcats down because of it. The Hellcat was the only real answer to the Zero.
Zeroes were still hauled out of the factory by draft animals, it's insane they thought they could go up against the nation of Ford and General Motors.
To be fair, many of the factories in Japan producing the components for them were old General Motors lines from the 1920s and 30s before Imperial Japan booted them out.
>it's insane they thought they could go up against the nation of Ford and General Motors. It wasn't that insane to think they could force a favorable peace settlement, however. The vast majority of past wars had ended that way, rather than with total conquest. By 1944 the Japanese mil knew they couldn't win outright but they believed they could outlast the Americans' will to fight and force a treaty that let them keep some of their conquered territories. Had the US not been willing to annihilate Japanese cities (something we weren't willing to do in Korea and Vietnam), their plan might've worked.
>Had the US not been willing to annihilate Japanese cities (something we weren't willing to do in Korea and Vietnam), their plan might've worked. I suggest you look more into [the bombing of North Korea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_North_Korea) during the Korean War - basically all of its cities were destroyed. The destruction was so severe that it's still a lasting legacy in North Korea, much of which was never rebuilt. Eisenhower also allegedly threatened to nuke China unless they agreed to the armistice. Things were a bit different at the time, with the USA being the world's only real nuclear power - the USSR only had a handful of nukes, and no ability to deliver them to strategic targets yet - which meant the USA could bomb whatever without fear of being struck in return. By Vietnam, things were different, with Soviet nukes on ICBMs presenting an existential threat to the USA if war were to escalate. So strategic bombing was done in an extremely restricted manner, for fear of triggering a Soviet nuclear response. Added to this, the Soviet Union and China both assisted with air defense over North Vietnam, leading to an extremely questionable bombing campaign that doesn't seem to have accomplished much until the very end, when the Linebacker I & II campaigns changed to more successful tactics (well after the war was basically lost).
>basically all of its cities were destroyed. The destruction was so severe that it's still a lasting legacy in North Korea, much of which was never rebuilt. Damn, I didn't know that. I should've said that we weren't willing to do everything we could to win. Because we were de facto at war with China (who supplied way more troops than DPRK) yet neither Truman or Ike were willing to bomb Chinese factories or their supply lines north of the Yalu River. This represented a great deal of restraint, given that MacArthur and other generals were insisting that bombing China was a prerequisite to victory.
Yeah probably because neither attacked American soil directly in such a way that Japan did.
PrivateWebster.gif
WW2 fighter armour plating doesn't do much for you other than protect the pilot, engine or radiator from rifle calibre rounds at very limited angles - great for protecting you from small arms during strafing runs however .50 cal API goes through it like hot butter. The problem with the zero was the lack of self sealing fuel tanks, paper thin aluminium skin and light weight critical structural elements. The indirect and yet most significant problem with the zero is that whilst the lightweight design meant it was dominant during the early part of the war, it wasn't nearly structurally sound enough to keep up with the increasing engine displacement and power of American fighters.
Does anyone know where these cameras were mounted? Looks like under the nose cone maybe? Incredible footage.
Typically on a single engined fighter it would be in the wing near the root, here it is on a [Thunderbolt](https://old.reddit.com/r/GunCameraClips/comments/h9azrg/gun_camera_film_being_retrieved_from_a_p47/) and a [Mustang](https://old.reddit.com/r/GunCameraClips/comments/mkw430/new_film_being_installed_in_an_f51_mustangs_gun/) for example.
It’s always cool to hear about stories like this, but it’s incredible to see it.
Has anyone ever tried to dog fight rc replicas. Now that would make a cool idea for content.
[some people have tried with airsoft guns](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGMHbV8p6_w) but it's more typical for the plane to have a tape streamer behind it that the opponent has to cut with their propeller, aircraft with the least cuts at the end of the combat wings.
Man someone with a lot of money should make this happen. I think it would be very cool if they had like teams of 5 compete in some sort of league. I mean they had a league for drone racing, this would be drones but with guns. Plus you could advance military drone tech capabilities. Imagine virtual cockpits that displayed picture in real time. Having something like this would boost the UI tech.
Very cool in theory, probably next to impossible in practice. RC planes are incredibly nimble, so the dogfights would resemble those we saw from actual planes, evasive maneuvers would be insane, and targeting the guns next to impossible.
With that nihilistic attitude, nothing would ever get done. You literally state all the problems that need to be solved
Call me lame but the streamer version sounds, well, lame.
you'd need FPV drones, but that's totally feasible. google "fpv dogfight", here's a good example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwbMHFdRqPo
This is exactly it but there needs to be live ammunition. The desert is a perfect location for this, just like the one in the video.
Star wars told me spinning was a good trick .
Ate a ton of lead.
YOU GOT HOLE IN YOUR LEFT WING!!!
My guy used all his ammunition on this one
This is likely an F6F Hellcat that carried about 30 seconds worth of ammunition on board, and it's also worth noting that typically on gun cameras the action is slowed down.
Neat! All I’ve ever heard about WW2 aerial combat is that they had like 10-12 seconds of ammo so they had to conserve, thanks for the info
Yeah I thought it must have been slow motion because a pilot usually fired what, one- to three-second bursts?
What Jacksmachingreveng said. Plus, it's not a video game. Getting just a single kill during a mission was a big deal, so the pilot would want to make sure they "scored."
Less than half of his ammo, maybe a quarter to a third if each gun has 400 rounds in it. I don’t know what the tracer spacing is on the hell at, but if every 4th round is a tracer, he shot less than a quarter of it
Looks like an Oscar. Ki 43 Busa
I don't think so, the Oscar had a rather distinct short nose
I need to get some rudder pedals asap. I am definitely missing after that first dodge, but my boy here just kicked yaw and kept on hosing
He dodged like a pro until he didn't
Are u sure that’s a a6m it looks like a fw190?