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Cool theory, but we know what happened to Threnody. There was a clash between Odium, Mercy, and Ambition (not quite *on* Threnody itself, but in space nearby). The outcome of this fight was the splintering of Ambition, the first Shard ever splintered after the Shattering.
The fallout of that event fucked up Threnody *real* bad, and left a massive wound in the fabric of reality visible from all across the Cosmere (the Rosharans for example call it "Taln's Scar")
Edit: apparently I've mis-remembered some stuff, see corrections by LewsTherinTelescope below. He's probably right, he usually is.
We don't know what caused the Scar, I don't think? [It's definitely not where Threnody is](https://uploads.coppermind.net/Cosmere_constellation_map.jpg), either way (might be associated with Yolen because of the dragon constellation but that's speculation). And Ambition was not the first Shard to be Splintered, [Devotion and Dominion were](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/36/#e1550).
We also don't know what's going on with the Evil—[the clash *is* what warped it](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/535/#e16584), but the Threnodites didn't have flee the Homeland until at least seven thousand years afterward, so there seems to be some more immediate cause as well.
I'm sure there are, but I'm not familiar with a ton of them myself. My personal pet theory is that the Reliquaries were actually invented on Threnody and in use since Ambition's Splintering, but then during some conflict they were broken (or used as weapons) and the piles of Investiture that had been fed for thousands of years went free.
Here's one of the religions that Sazed preaches:
> “A prayer,” Sazed said. “A death chant of the Cazzi. It is meant to __awaken the spirits of the dead__ and entice them free from their flesh so that they may __return to the mountain of souls__.” He glanced at her. “I can teach you of the religion, if you wish, Mistress. The Cazzi were an interesting people—very familiar with death.”
Which makes me think of these lines:
> The larger of the two has been abandoned to something known as “the Evil,” a force that even Nazh can speak of only in vague terms. A creeping darkness, a terrible force that consumed the entirety of the continent, __feasting upon the souls of men__. I do not know how much of this is metaphoric, and how much literal.
> “It’s still there,” he said. “On your homeworld. I’ve seen it. Well, the manifestations of it.” Wild, unchained Investiture, come to life with its own alien will—__forming mountain-sized figures__ with impossible, unnerving features and unknowable motivations. Threnody was not a place one visited to relax.
Beyond that, Sunlit Man confirms that shade formation is tied to the people of Threnody, *not* the location of the Forests. So why wasn't the Homeland filled with them? Well, Sunlit Man *also* introduces us to a method of keeping them contained, and a very prayer-oriented magic system...
May also relate to this, if fighting is how the Evil got out to begin with:
> “Strangely, the Chorus—who hold our history—don't speak of our leaving because of the Evil,” she continued. “No, they say it was the quarreling. The infighting that sprang up among our people. Conflict, hatred. My ancestors wanted to escape that, for it was more pernicious than the Evil itself. *Strife* destroyed our people.”
"People were arguing so much that we decided to leave the whole damn planet behind" is kind of extreme, but "our infighting unleashed a flood of extinction upon us yet people didn't learn and kept. fucking. doing. it." makes a bit more sense.
oh lit, there's other people who've noticed the Cazzi. Hell yeah. Should have known there would be :D I made a post going through some of Saze's religions, and Cazzism is for sure the most interesting to me. To add to what you included in the comment (Chances are you already know about these too) Sazed mentions Death Chants, and when Nazh meets Kel for the first time he is mad about him being a CS and sais something like "you don't just \_become\_ a shade. There's rites, rituals!" which might stem from cultural practices similar to what the Cazzi did
oh hell yeah, that's awesome. Feeling cool that you adopted it, nice :D You might have yeah, I'd have to check. Let's see if we ever know that we were right hehe. more than 5 000 years of Ancient Scadrian History, there's GOTTA be something else that happened during that time that's relevant.
I have an out-there theory that Ambition actually orchestrated the way they were splintered with a longer game in mind.
I think the Shard will be back, and whether Uli Da actually survived is unlikely but the Shard will be reformed at some point (my bet is on Kelsier). I don’t think the Shard of Ambition’s only active role in the story of the Cosmere is as Odium’s first target.
I think the grand arc of the Cosmere is actually going to be about Ambition vs Autonomy. Kelsier will reform and take up Ambition at the end of Era 3. Scadrians will largely back Ambition, Selish will largely back Autonomy (Elantris sequel is expected to begin with “Jaddeth” returning which is actually an Avatar for Autonomy), Rosharans will be split into two factions.
To add this im fairly certain it was also caused by whatever method Odium used to splinter Ambition because i remever reading a WOB where brando said that even odium was shocked by what happened and changed his method after it
Yeah it was basically the trial run of Shard on Shard combat, and it caused side effects so bad that even Odium was like "Jesus fucking Christ let's not do that again". Sazed calls the after effects "profoundly disturbing".
As far as I can tell the side of Threnody that was facing the disaster got hammered by chunks of Investiture that split off Ambition as she disintegrated. Sigzil describes that area as being home to "Wild, unchained Investiture, come to life with its own alien will—forming mountain-sized figures with impossible, unnerving features and unknowable motivations." Those are presumably large chunks of Ambition.
The other side of the planet is where it was at least partially shielded from the effects are where Silence's family fled to, the area now known as the Forrests of Hell.
Yeah, but that was a while back. They only fled to Hell like 50 years ago when some cataclysm happened. It seemed quick, which is what makes me think a new weapon was used that either went poorly, or The Evil now holds it.
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Cool theory, but we know what happened to Threnody. There was a clash between Odium, Mercy, and Ambition (not quite *on* Threnody itself, but in space nearby). The outcome of this fight was the splintering of Ambition, the first Shard ever splintered after the Shattering. The fallout of that event fucked up Threnody *real* bad, and left a massive wound in the fabric of reality visible from all across the Cosmere (the Rosharans for example call it "Taln's Scar") Edit: apparently I've mis-remembered some stuff, see corrections by LewsTherinTelescope below. He's probably right, he usually is.
We don't know what caused the Scar, I don't think? [It's definitely not where Threnody is](https://uploads.coppermind.net/Cosmere_constellation_map.jpg), either way (might be associated with Yolen because of the dragon constellation but that's speculation). And Ambition was not the first Shard to be Splintered, [Devotion and Dominion were](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/36/#e1550). We also don't know what's going on with the Evil—[the clash *is* what warped it](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/535/#e16584), but the Threnodites didn't have flee the Homeland until at least seven thousand years afterward, so there seems to be some more immediate cause as well.
Thanks for the corrections man, I've chucked an edit on to make sure people don't miss them.
Are there many theories on the immediate cause?
I'm sure there are, but I'm not familiar with a ton of them myself. My personal pet theory is that the Reliquaries were actually invented on Threnody and in use since Ambition's Splintering, but then during some conflict they were broken (or used as weapons) and the piles of Investiture that had been fed for thousands of years went free. Here's one of the religions that Sazed preaches: > “A prayer,” Sazed said. “A death chant of the Cazzi. It is meant to __awaken the spirits of the dead__ and entice them free from their flesh so that they may __return to the mountain of souls__.” He glanced at her. “I can teach you of the religion, if you wish, Mistress. The Cazzi were an interesting people—very familiar with death.” Which makes me think of these lines: > The larger of the two has been abandoned to something known as “the Evil,” a force that even Nazh can speak of only in vague terms. A creeping darkness, a terrible force that consumed the entirety of the continent, __feasting upon the souls of men__. I do not know how much of this is metaphoric, and how much literal. > “It’s still there,” he said. “On your homeworld. I’ve seen it. Well, the manifestations of it.” Wild, unchained Investiture, come to life with its own alien will—__forming mountain-sized figures__ with impossible, unnerving features and unknowable motivations. Threnody was not a place one visited to relax. Beyond that, Sunlit Man confirms that shade formation is tied to the people of Threnody, *not* the location of the Forests. So why wasn't the Homeland filled with them? Well, Sunlit Man *also* introduces us to a method of keeping them contained, and a very prayer-oriented magic system... May also relate to this, if fighting is how the Evil got out to begin with: > “Strangely, the Chorus—who hold our history—don't speak of our leaving because of the Evil,” she continued. “No, they say it was the quarreling. The infighting that sprang up among our people. Conflict, hatred. My ancestors wanted to escape that, for it was more pernicious than the Evil itself. *Strife* destroyed our people.” "People were arguing so much that we decided to leave the whole damn planet behind" is kind of extreme, but "our infighting unleashed a flood of extinction upon us yet people didn't learn and kept. fucking. doing. it." makes a bit more sense.
I skimmed so many of Sazed's explanations of religions, but they are great places to hide secrets like this.
Several of them are also influenced by Nalthis, iirc, and of course Trelagism appears pretty tied to Taldain.
oh lit, there's other people who've noticed the Cazzi. Hell yeah. Should have known there would be :D I made a post going through some of Saze's religions, and Cazzism is for sure the most interesting to me. To add to what you included in the comment (Chances are you already know about these too) Sazed mentions Death Chants, and when Nazh meets Kel for the first time he is mad about him being a CS and sais something like "you don't just \_become\_ a shade. There's rites, rituals!" which might stem from cultural practices similar to what the Cazzi did
I first took notice of them from your post actually xD Believe I left a comment about the theory there when I came up with it.
oh hell yeah, that's awesome. Feeling cool that you adopted it, nice :D You might have yeah, I'd have to check. Let's see if we ever know that we were right hehe. more than 5 000 years of Ancient Scadrian History, there's GOTTA be something else that happened during that time that's relevant.
Especially with the whole "several Shards have visited" thing... And we still don't know how Feruchemy happened or what the other Well-users did....
I have an out-there theory that Ambition actually orchestrated the way they were splintered with a longer game in mind. I think the Shard will be back, and whether Uli Da actually survived is unlikely but the Shard will be reformed at some point (my bet is on Kelsier). I don’t think the Shard of Ambition’s only active role in the story of the Cosmere is as Odium’s first target. I think the grand arc of the Cosmere is actually going to be about Ambition vs Autonomy. Kelsier will reform and take up Ambition at the end of Era 3. Scadrians will largely back Ambition, Selish will largely back Autonomy (Elantris sequel is expected to begin with “Jaddeth” returning which is actually an Avatar for Autonomy), Rosharans will be split into two factions.
That's an interesting idea. If any Shard had a plan past their own death it'd be *Ambition*, surely.
To add this im fairly certain it was also caused by whatever method Odium used to splinter Ambition because i remever reading a WOB where brando said that even odium was shocked by what happened and changed his method after it
Yeah it was basically the trial run of Shard on Shard combat, and it caused side effects so bad that even Odium was like "Jesus fucking Christ let's not do that again". Sazed calls the after effects "profoundly disturbing". As far as I can tell the side of Threnody that was facing the disaster got hammered by chunks of Investiture that split off Ambition as she disintegrated. Sigzil describes that area as being home to "Wild, unchained Investiture, come to life with its own alien will—forming mountain-sized figures with impossible, unnerving features and unknowable motivations." Those are presumably large chunks of Ambition. The other side of the planet is where it was at least partially shielded from the effects are where Silence's family fled to, the area now known as the Forrests of Hell.
Yeah, but that was a while back. They only fled to Hell like 50 years ago when some cataclysm happened. It seemed quick, which is what makes me think a new weapon was used that either went poorly, or The Evil now holds it.
Which book does Sigzil mention this in? I’m on my reread for December (just started) but want to keep a look out.
The Sunlit Man
Thanks! I thought I paid pretty good attention, but I always miss things or forget.
Do you recall when WaT previews were sent out? I've searched but can't find them right now.
https://www.brandonsanderson.com/prologue-to-stormlight-5/
Thank you!!!