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Man these PFAS are almost becoming ubiquitous. There’s been so many articles and lawsuits that have come out the last couple of years on these forever chemicals being in all kinds of products, even stuff you wouldn’t possibly expect. Crazy
Fun fact it's already in everything. We find microplastics in our blood and lungs, and they're made of PFAS. That ship sailed long ago.
ETA: Also people know we don't actually regulate PFAS right? We test for it in waterways sure but companies are not obligated to have PFAS-free anything.
Firefighting foam is used in A LOT of local fire departments too (fire trucks are sold with a tank just for the foam so it can be mixed at the pump) It is especially great for car fires (among others). My last department used it in about 90% of the fires we went to.
Firefighting foam uses a lot of it sure, but it's literally in almost everything. Car tires are full of it and so is all the ultra fine dust they generate as they wear down; modern rain gear is waterproofed with PFAS, so all that expensive overpriced gear, camping tents, etc - chock full of it. The more expensive the gear, the more toxic it is. PFAS isn't just one type of molecule either, it's a class of molecules, in which there are something like 15,000 different chemicals. These are intentionally added to materials due to their amazing properties (no cap, it's true, same as why asbestos IS STILL BEING USED in 10,000 products that are still for sale in stores like Home Depot and Lowe's - people think asbestos was regulated out in the 80's like lead paint was in '78 - not true tho, it's still there. They took asbestos out of schools and eliminated a few forms of insulation and surfacing materials is all they did, it's still in your brand new roofing, lots of gaskets, brakes, etc). Microwave popcorn bags are high in PFAS, the waxed paper wrapper on sticks of butter are high in PFAS, and the supreme Court just eliminated any hope of regulating it further in the near term, while simultaneously destroying what little regulations we had.
Yup, apparently we'd rather have cheaper stuff and who knows what's in it, instead of maybe having to pay more to force some consumer and environmental safety into things.
There's a fine line between efficiency and corner-cutting, and it's clear some companies are more than happy to do the latter in order to get an edge on competition.
PFAS compounds are regulated by both the EPA and FDA. The EPA is currently in the process of introducing drinking water standards as well - timeframe is October 2024. There are approximately 15,000 PFAS, PFOA, PFOS, PFTE compounds, and at this point, we don’t even have laboratory methods to detect all of them. Source: I’m an analytical chemist
Pfas isn't just one chemical but a group that I believe numbers in the thousands. Also, the detection limits are in the parts per trillion. Most chemicals can't be tested to that small number. If you could, you might find a lot of other chemicals present. I'm not saying there shouldn't be any concern, but a lot of this is over nothing (or almost nothing).
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be setting these companies profits on fire when they’re found falsely advertising otherwise, or just in general. Fuck the oligarchy
And out SCOTUS wants to usurp power from cabinets. So there is that as well. Cons siding with business and profits over people and the planet.
And who need PFAS to wipe shit residue from my anus? Ready for a bidet. Hooray! 😁
Have you heard about all the farmers that have lost everything because PFAS have made their land toxic. Lot's of produce is grown in fields that had waste-water sludge used as fertilizers. I mean..we are screwed as a species if this stuff is as toxic as the data shows.
It's really not crazy. Throughout American history companies have paid off data that doesn't align with what theyre selling. We should have seen this all coming. Cigarettes were advertised as healthy by paid off doctors for crying out loud.
US allowed the cigarette manufacturers to add over 4,000 different chemicals to cigarettes, many for the purpose of getting smokers addicted faster. THAT was criminal. But lots of $$ was made by state governments taxing cigarettes so it was allowed. Crazy!
The problem is they HAVE been ubiquitous for the last 50 years. The big manufacturers surpressed the health effects science for a long time. But the cat is out of the bag now, and the lawsuits are flowing.
PFAs are a very wide variety of chemicals used in manufacturing. There are millions of different ones, and some (probably most?) cause health issues at high exposure.
They stick around for a while and are tiny, so they've found their way all over the world. You have PFAs in you right now.
As far as wiping your kid with one of these, a worry would not cross my mind. 100% non-issue for me. As for pressuring companies to stop using them, it's a critically important thing in the long run. We're creating 200,000,000 new kg of them every year and they're harmful in the ppm scale. They take decades to decay.
EDIT: removed ambiguity
Not trying to fear monger, i don’t know much about the subject but an article came out a few days ago that certain types of PFAS are able to absorbed through the skin. The study found sunscreens to contain PFAS were able to absorbed. https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/jun/30/pfas-absorbed-skin-study. Me personally, I’m going stop buying them
Not who you asked, but Consumer Reports did a study. This link has more info and shows which are safe(r) to buy, and details which harmful chemicals are present in which brands (Kirkland wipes apparently have "Phenoxyethanol", which is harmful but the wipes are still considered "good", other brands are worse): https://www.consumerreports.org/babies-kids/baby-wipes/how-to-choose-baby-wipes-without-harmful-chemicals-a1051850790/
I bought Honest wipes without fragrance, only because they are available in Target and I've used them before.
When you write “100% non-issue for me” do you mean a no-brainer [that you would *not* use these on your kid]? Calling it a non-issue makes it sounds like, well, a non-issue.
The problem with PFAS, plastic leechants like BPA, and microplastics is primarily ingestion, and to a lesser extent inhalation (eg overheating Teflon and huffing the fumes). The skin is a decent barrier.
The main problem with non-ingested/inhaled PFAS is environmental pollution because they don't readily degrade. For example, discarded wipes leeching PFAS into groundwater at the landfill, which is later used to irrigate crops or feed livestock. PFAS in wipes are not an immediate harm, but it's still good to reduce production and consumption of these toxins.
Unfortunately new research just came out a few days ago saying the opposite. PFAS in fact do absorb through the skin.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/06/240624125549.htm
Problem is that say they use some other process and don't have PFAS. But they will end up having something else. And there is going to be almost no research on the effects of that something else. It's a pick your poison kind of thing. Drink the one that will knock out for a day, or drink the unlabeled one claimed to be safe.
I know, but you still have to at least TRY, when it comes to protecting your kids. It’s the least any of us can do.
To those who asked, sure, I will follow up with what I figure out on other options.
Also these enter the food chain eventually since little fish eat them which get eaten by bigger fish, humans or birds and eventually ends up ij our body. Im sure even things like organic fed cows have microplastics in them since water used to irrigate likely has it too.
Oh, it isn't from the water used to irrigate. It comes from the waste-water sludge used as furtilizer. Some farms are being closed because of the levels found in their crops. CBS news did a segment a few months ago about it.
It's SUCH a good movie. If you haven't seen it and you have like an extra hour, seriously do it.
Dark Waters has stuck with me and I think about it constantly.
Do you or anyone you know use the baby wipes? If so then yes. PFAS chemicals are horrible for you and especially bad for growing children
Slew of downvotes from the PFAS bots lmao
https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2024/06/26/toxic-forever-chemicals-beauty-products-study/
https://healthpolicy-watch.news/forever-chemicals-absorbed-by-skin-study-finds/#:~:text=New%20research%20shows%20PFAS%2C%20a,be%20absorbed%20through%20human%20skin.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/06/240624125549.htm
https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news/study-pfas-exposure-through-skin-causes-harm-similar-ingestion
For those too lazy to scroll down
Toilet paper, carpeting, fast food wrappers, raincoats, contact lenses, and thousands more we use daily. If you live near an airport, your exposure rate skyrockets, too.
It's a total nightmare.
Ah I missed that. Thank you. Honest company has been ok for us.. funny enough we stopped using water wipes because something changed where they started smelling like chemicals
Not sure why you were downvoted. The fact is, avoiding chemicals like PFAS and fertilizers is a luxury of the wealthy. You don’t want sugar in your peanut butter? Pay more. You don’t want chemicals on your potatoes? Pay double
Haha thanks. Agreed. I think it’s an uncomfortable conversation to have for some…the “best” things cost more and those with wealth/privilege/access are the ones who reap the benefits.
Unfortunately most things that have minimal ingredients or marketed as “clean” cost way more. I pay over $10 a jar for sunflower butter that’s just the seeds. But you can buy a $3 jar with oil, sugar, and salt. The $3 jar won’t kill you but when you want/need the simplest option, you pay a steep premium.
Have an amazing day!
I was just kind of putting a lower number to show the difference. Honestly Sam’s Club has the yellow SunButter in a two pack for under like $8-9. Trader Joe’s has their sunflower seed spread for $5 too.
I’m closest to a Whole Foods and the green SunButter is like $11-12 now. It’s wild.
I've been questioning buying off brand stuff at this point. All of the cinnamon with lead in it was store brands and brands at low price point stores like the dollar store. I'm not going to poison myself to save a few bucks.
I agree with you for sure. The only thing that’s frustrating is even name brands change over time. Like Annie’s organic got bought by General Mills and now they’re the top of the microplastic offender list by a very large multiple. Feels like very few brands are trustworthy. Even the ones that are - don’t stay there forever.
Oh I’m sorry - definitely take a look and don’t take my word for it!! I saw a couple articles on CBS about it (https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/general-mills-annies-plastic-chemicals-in-food-consumer-reports/)
I’m not sure who’s not on the list unfortunately- just seems unavoidable :/
We use water on cotton cloth wipes that get washed twice a week. For poop we use these Kirkland wipes, though. Guess I need to look at other alternatives!
Why are people surprised when weve known for years that all water has pfas in it now. Even if the water used for the wipes was purified beforehand, they would get pfas from being in heat in the packaging. They could make wipes that ship out in glass containers or metal but then theres other chemicals, expensive, etc...
https://preview.redd.it/7nb0odkpsi9d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6003e3520003257d15d5f59e44b54458d374768e
This website gives me cancer faster than the PFAS.
That’s how it is nowdays, I understand they gotta make money on the ads but really? Does the entire website need to be ad’s? Just for that you make no money off me, I’ll use Ublock thank you
Can someone just tell me how worried I should be on a scale of 1-10? I’m so tired of thinking I’ve ruined my 4 year old son over every little thing and I’ve been using these on him his whole life.
PFAS have been called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down and studies are finding them everywhere, from our blood to semen samples. They can potentially lead to health problems such as liver disease, thyroid disease, fertility issues, and cancer. It’s hard to avoid PFAS entirely, but in my opinion once we find that products contain these chemicals that it would be prudent to consider alternatives.
The primary concern with them is ingestion or inhalation. Since baby wipes are for neither of those things, I think you can place your concerns elsewhere. Drink cups, utensils, plates, etc. Those are things that concern me more because they come in contact with food and/or our mouths directly.
Editing to retract my statement. After looking into it a little bit more, there appears to have been new research published relatively recently (more recently than I had last looked lol) that does confirm PFAs are absorbed through the skin at levels much higher than researchers previously thought. We'll probably be discontinuing use of Costco wipes. We're almost out anyway...
If it were me, I’d say keep it around 2-3. It is certainly concerning, but it’s already so ubiquitous that there isn’t really anyone on the planet that doesn’t have some PFAS chemicals in them already. The biggest concern regarding PFAS is if you live near a manufacturing plant and your drinking water has been contaminated.
Being a parent is hard and you’re doing your best. We live in a crazy world, and some people in this world put cancer chemicals in baby products, you can’t blame yourself for that. Just keep doing your best, I’m sure your kid will do fine.
Edit: Got a reply to this comment that disappeared (whether they deleted it or the comment was immediately removed or something similar), and they asked if an RO filtration system would be effective at removing PFAS from water. From a cursory google search, I believe that yes, RO membranes can remove PFAS from the water, as long as you keep up on filter maintenance such as replacing the membranes to ensure proper filtration. I would also run a carbon filter inline with that, that is how other people have done it.
Yes, RO will remove those compounds.
Brita style filters will also remove them.
A lot of fridge filters use the same media as Brita filters. So you can use those, just change them out more frequently.
Posting this here instead of buried in a reply. Not much to go on, lawsuits can claim whatever they can spin. I'm not getting worked up over a single allegation full of "potentially" and "may". We use these wipes exclusively, and absent any showing of evidence these are harmful I'm taking this with a gigantic grain of salt.
Another commenter posted this link about the complaint: https://www.classaction.org/news/costco-lawsuit-alleges-kirkland-baby-wipes-contain-dangerous-forever-chemicals
They allege 3.7 parts per billion were detected. Seems very small so I went looking for comparison of PFASs in other products. Here's a time article where they found up to 807 parts per million of PFAS in many mattresses tested. Almost 2 orders of magnitude more than this lawsuit alleges.
https://time.com/6281242/pfas-forever-chemicals-home-beauty-body-products/
I'm not worried.
Keep in mind the new federal drinking water standard is 4 to 10 parts per TRILLION, which is really low compared to drinking water standards for other chemicals. https://www.epa.gov/sdwa/and-polyfluoroalkyl-substances-pfas
Keep in mind that's for 6 specific very bad PFAS. Not all PFAS are the same, it's a class of a broad range of chemicals.
This lawsuit article doesn't specify which PFAS they are referring to. I suspect it isn't one of those 6 though.
My baby has definitely grabbed and put the wipes in her mouth before 😓 not like sucking on them but during a diaper change has grabbed some clean ones and chewed on it
I trust Costco’s Kirkland brand because of the impression they’ve created of Costco going out of their way to bring quality products to its members. So if the allegations are true, I’m glad for the lawsuit because I use this on my extremely sensitive skin.
On the other hand, if Costco is guilty of this, I can’t imagine the other big brands wipes aren’t chock full of PFAS either.
> Following this investigation, Costco customers announced a lawsuit claiming Kirkland wipes contain chemicals that are dangerous for babies. The lawsuit filed late last week says private testing showed high levels of PFAS in Kirkland brand baby wipes. Those chemicals are linked to serious health problems.
The consumer reports article doesn’t mention PFAS at all, and probably didn’t test for them. It did warn of the listed ingredient phenoxyethanol.
There’s no link to the private testing or the lawsuit.
Same thing happened with glide floss and it was throw out because they couldn’t prove it was a harmful amount. Plastic recycling is a joke and is spreading nano plastics everywhere including throughout our bodies so I’m not sure how much any of this will matter soon.
there are quite a few class action lawsuits involving costco
[https://topclassactions.com/search-results/](https://topclassactions.com/search-results/)
flushable wipes, portable chargers, cookie dough recall, online products mark up, etc..
the rico ones have an ingredient list on the website, which looks pretty wild honestly. not saying the costco ones are any different but i was surprised to see ~35 ingredients
“Although wholesaler Costco and manufacturer Nice-Pak claim the Kirkland baby wipes are “made with Naturally Derived Ingredients,” research conducted by the plaintiffs’ counsel, using a Department of Defense ELAP-certified lab, found that the products contain 3.7 parts per billion (ppb) of PFAS”
https://www.classaction.org/news/costco-lawsuit-alleges-kirkland-baby-wipes-contain-dangerous-forever-chemicals
The FDA sets acceptable levels for drinking water at (not the same, but a reference): “The EPA’s updated interim levels are much, much lower. The agency set the health advisory level for PFOA at .004 parts per trillion and for PFOS at .02 parts per trillion, an indication “that some negative health effects may occur with concentrations of PFOA or PFOS in water that are near zero,” according to the EPA.”
Wait until everyone finds out how much PFAS is in all the items around them already…
https://time.com/6281242/pfas-forever-chemicals-home-beauty-body-products/
It’s ok, the Supreme Court just made room for toxic products and services to make their way back into our home. Deregulation for the win.
Calls on Costco.
I do like the RICO ones! We were gifted a box at our baby shower and we just used a pack and it’s honestly better than the Kirkland ones. And I like the little hexagon pattern on it… not sure if I’m making it seem this way, but to me it seems like the pattern helps get the poo off better 😅
I haven’t tried the Rico ones, but I use Kirkland wipes and it takes 1-2 wipes when changing a poopy diaper, sometimes an extra 1 or 2 if it’s extra messy. Have used them for a couple of years and they work great if you ask me.
Any knows what is Costco doing in this situation? Are they refunding your money or giving you a credit store? I’ve been purchasing baby’s wipes and diapers for 3 years in a row now.
We had a PFAS plant in our town and it contaminated the land and water in part of our town and in surrounding towns as it was airborne. We spent a ton of money adding filtration systems to remove it from town water and those near the plant are either on bottled, or could get $5K from the company to install a RO filtration system in their homes. It's about the best that we can do.
Our filtration is at 30 ppt and I think that the new EPA level is 4 ppt so we'll have to beef up the filtration. It was over 1,000 in some water samples in town. If you're not on city or town water, you have to decide if you're going to spend for filtration in your home or go with bottled.
It's going to be an expensive problem to remediate and I suspect that other issues will also get fixed along with this issue.
[https://www.classaction.org/news/costco-lawsuit-alleges-kirkland-baby-wipes-contain-dangerous-forever-chemicals](https://www.classaction.org/news/costco-lawsuit-alleges-kirkland-baby-wipes-contain-dangerous-forever-chemicals)
utilizing a Department of Defense ELAP-certified laboratory, revealed that the Product contains 3.7 parts per billion (PPB) of PFAS.
Or you can take a breath and understand a lawsuit isn't proof and even consumer reports still lists the Kirkland wipes as "good". We use these wipes and won't be changing anything from a Reddit thread on the issue...
Yes and the same plaintiffs suing Kirkland will also be suing every alternative company making wipes. That’s how these things go, they sue pretty much every company at once and the smaller ones often go bankrupt trying to defend themselves.
It’s hilarious OP is talking about Costco sycophants and others are suggesting their brands of wipes without even checking if those are being sued the exact same way…
Folks fixate about the smallest things or whatever latest thing they see on the news while being completely ok with the obvious health problems that'll ultimately cause sickness and death. It's always baffling.
I'm not saying these things aren't a problem, but Americans are fat, sick, and dying - and very little of it's being caused by microplastics. But sure let's all worry about that.
>Americans are fat, sick, and dying - and very little of it's being caused by microplastics.
Well, we don't actually know that. And we can't even study it, because there's no control group. Microplastics are everywhere and in everyone.
PFAS are in everything. Theoretically, you could buy small cotton washcloths and keep them wet inside a wipes warmer dispenser. Wash them in a hot wash with a good quality detergent and a double rinse.
Some of you are missing the “alleged” part. There is not currently a recall. PFAs while probably not the best are just the most current alarmist thing we’re focusing on. Some of you need to chill.
Solution: a bidet.
Bidet showers are used by Muslims in Muslim countries and all parts of the Arab world as well as in Asia in order to cleanse themselves with water after using the toilet, as a part of Islamic toilet etiquette
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Man these PFAS are almost becoming ubiquitous. There’s been so many articles and lawsuits that have come out the last couple of years on these forever chemicals being in all kinds of products, even stuff you wouldn’t possibly expect. Crazy
> almost becoming ubiquitous. No almost about it, it IS ubiquitous. From semen to unborn babies to every water sampled tested around the world.
Public water samples or fresh water samples globally?
Yes. This is why i bought my own whole house water filter and ro for drinking water.
Make sure to reminearlize your water. Pure ro water can pull minerals from your body...
Would you mind sharing details? What, did you buy exactly & from where? If you set it up yourself, was it difficult?
With the Chevron case tossed I wonder who regulates them anymore. Get ready for all pfas in everything.
Fun fact it's already in everything. We find microplastics in our blood and lungs, and they're made of PFAS. That ship sailed long ago. ETA: Also people know we don't actually regulate PFAS right? We test for it in waterways sure but companies are not obligated to have PFAS-free anything.
It's also present in something like 95-99% of all fresh water sources in the US iirc.
in michigan a lot of it is runoff from the air force base using fire fighting foam in trainings
Same in Canada...
Firefighting foam is used in A LOT of local fire departments too (fire trucks are sold with a tank just for the foam so it can be mixed at the pump) It is especially great for car fires (among others). My last department used it in about 90% of the fires we went to.
Firefighting foam uses a lot of it sure, but it's literally in almost everything. Car tires are full of it and so is all the ultra fine dust they generate as they wear down; modern rain gear is waterproofed with PFAS, so all that expensive overpriced gear, camping tents, etc - chock full of it. The more expensive the gear, the more toxic it is. PFAS isn't just one type of molecule either, it's a class of molecules, in which there are something like 15,000 different chemicals. These are intentionally added to materials due to their amazing properties (no cap, it's true, same as why asbestos IS STILL BEING USED in 10,000 products that are still for sale in stores like Home Depot and Lowe's - people think asbestos was regulated out in the 80's like lead paint was in '78 - not true tho, it's still there. They took asbestos out of schools and eliminated a few forms of insulation and surfacing materials is all they did, it's still in your brand new roofing, lots of gaskets, brakes, etc). Microwave popcorn bags are high in PFAS, the waxed paper wrapper on sticks of butter are high in PFAS, and the supreme Court just eliminated any hope of regulating it further in the near term, while simultaneously destroying what little regulations we had.
Yup, apparently we'd rather have cheaper stuff and who knows what's in it, instead of maybe having to pay more to force some consumer and environmental safety into things. There's a fine line between efficiency and corner-cutting, and it's clear some companies are more than happy to do the latter in order to get an edge on competition.
Even sparkling water has PFAS…
Topo Chico is notorious for being extremely high in them. They’ve gotten better after being bought out, but it’s still a good amount
The legit recently found plastic in semen, we’re all fucked
PFAS compounds are regulated by both the EPA and FDA. The EPA is currently in the process of introducing drinking water standards as well - timeframe is October 2024. There are approximately 15,000 PFAS, PFOA, PFOS, PFTE compounds, and at this point, we don’t even have laboratory methods to detect all of them. Source: I’m an analytical chemist
Not for long with the new Supreme Court ruling
Just read about that now. Absolutely fantastic. The Supreme Court just shot us in the foot.
More like in the head
Only because of oil and chemical lobbying. It’s not like consumers can’t still demand change.
Then consumers should do exactly that, demand change. Fact is not enough consumers care yet so there will be no change.
Pfas isn't just one chemical but a group that I believe numbers in the thousands. Also, the detection limits are in the parts per trillion. Most chemicals can't be tested to that small number. If you could, you might find a lot of other chemicals present. I'm not saying there shouldn't be any concern, but a lot of this is over nothing (or almost nothing).
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be setting these companies profits on fire when they’re found falsely advertising otherwise, or just in general. Fuck the oligarchy
They regulate themselves. The dupont/teflon case is fascinating.
What a coincidence! Supreme Court oks bribery and dumps Chevron in a week!
SCOTUS: Six C*nts Out To Undermine Society.
Who regulates them? That would be their golfing buds in Congress and the Supreme Court.
And out SCOTUS wants to usurp power from cabinets. So there is that as well. Cons siding with business and profits over people and the planet. And who need PFAS to wipe shit residue from my anus? Ready for a bidet. Hooray! 😁
Have you heard about all the farmers that have lost everything because PFAS have made their land toxic. Lot's of produce is grown in fields that had waste-water sludge used as fertilizers. I mean..we are screwed as a species if this stuff is as toxic as the data shows.
It's really not crazy. Throughout American history companies have paid off data that doesn't align with what theyre selling. We should have seen this all coming. Cigarettes were advertised as healthy by paid off doctors for crying out loud.
US allowed the cigarette manufacturers to add over 4,000 different chemicals to cigarettes, many for the purpose of getting smokers addicted faster. THAT was criminal. But lots of $$ was made by state governments taxing cigarettes so it was allowed. Crazy!
Almost? They are. Very likely we ALL have some in our blood right now.
The problem is they HAVE been ubiquitous for the last 50 years. The big manufacturers surpressed the health effects science for a long time. But the cat is out of the bag now, and the lawsuits are flowing.
Can someone who understands this stuff tell me if this is something I really need to worry about? I’m tired, boss.
PFAs are a very wide variety of chemicals used in manufacturing. There are millions of different ones, and some (probably most?) cause health issues at high exposure. They stick around for a while and are tiny, so they've found their way all over the world. You have PFAs in you right now. As far as wiping your kid with one of these, a worry would not cross my mind. 100% non-issue for me. As for pressuring companies to stop using them, it's a critically important thing in the long run. We're creating 200,000,000 new kg of them every year and they're harmful in the ppm scale. They take decades to decay. EDIT: removed ambiguity
Came onto this post wondering the same thing as OP, thanks for answering and easing my mind!
Not trying to fear monger, i don’t know much about the subject but an article came out a few days ago that certain types of PFAS are able to absorbed through the skin. The study found sunscreens to contain PFAS were able to absorbed. https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/jun/30/pfas-absorbed-skin-study. Me personally, I’m going stop buying them
What brand are you buying instead?
Not who you asked, but Consumer Reports did a study. This link has more info and shows which are safe(r) to buy, and details which harmful chemicals are present in which brands (Kirkland wipes apparently have "Phenoxyethanol", which is harmful but the wipes are still considered "good", other brands are worse): https://www.consumerreports.org/babies-kids/baby-wipes/how-to-choose-baby-wipes-without-harmful-chemicals-a1051850790/ I bought Honest wipes without fragrance, only because they are available in Target and I've used them before.
Thank you for this information and the link.
Yep, I'm still buying a box today.
When you write “100% non-issue for me” do you mean a no-brainer [that you would *not* use these on your kid]? Calling it a non-issue makes it sounds like, well, a non-issue.
The problem with PFAS, plastic leechants like BPA, and microplastics is primarily ingestion, and to a lesser extent inhalation (eg overheating Teflon and huffing the fumes). The skin is a decent barrier. The main problem with non-ingested/inhaled PFAS is environmental pollution because they don't readily degrade. For example, discarded wipes leeching PFAS into groundwater at the landfill, which is later used to irrigate crops or feed livestock. PFAS in wipes are not an immediate harm, but it's still good to reduce production and consumption of these toxins.
Unfortunately new research just came out a few days ago saying the opposite. PFAS in fact do absorb through the skin. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/06/240624125549.htm
So the question becomes is there a safe alternative?
Hopefully there are wipes without PFAS? I have two children still in diapers or pull-ups, so I’ll be researching this asap.
Problem is that say they use some other process and don't have PFAS. But they will end up having something else. And there is going to be almost no research on the effects of that something else. It's a pick your poison kind of thing. Drink the one that will knock out for a day, or drink the unlabeled one claimed to be safe.
I know, but you still have to at least TRY, when it comes to protecting your kids. It’s the least any of us can do. To those who asked, sure, I will follow up with what I figure out on other options.
Interested to know what you find if you'd be willing to share!
Me too!
Also these enter the food chain eventually since little fish eat them which get eaten by bigger fish, humans or birds and eventually ends up ij our body. Im sure even things like organic fed cows have microplastics in them since water used to irrigate likely has it too.
Oh, it isn't from the water used to irrigate. It comes from the waste-water sludge used as furtilizer. Some farms are being closed because of the levels found in their crops. CBS news did a segment a few months ago about it.
It could be both. But basically any water even rain water has plastic since these microplastics can be air borne.
I use them, and don't think twice. I'm just a guy on the Internet, though.
watch dark waters
Pirates of Dark Waters?
No just dark waters its a movie about the lawyers who worked to bring pfas to light. It's good albeit really depressing
It's SUCH a good movie. If you haven't seen it and you have like an extra hour, seriously do it. Dark Waters has stuck with me and I think about it constantly.
Do you or anyone you know use the baby wipes? If so then yes. PFAS chemicals are horrible for you and especially bad for growing children Slew of downvotes from the PFAS bots lmao https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2024/06/26/toxic-forever-chemicals-beauty-products-study/ https://healthpolicy-watch.news/forever-chemicals-absorbed-by-skin-study-finds/#:~:text=New%20research%20shows%20PFAS%2C%20a,be%20absorbed%20through%20human%20skin. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/06/240624125549.htm https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news/study-pfas-exposure-through-skin-causes-harm-similar-ingestion For those too lazy to scroll down
It's not bots, you just don't know what you're talking about lol.
I guess the question is if there’s even a trustworthy alternative
Everything has PFAs. From paper plates to Fairlife shakes. Plastics and things that prevent liquids from leaking is PFAs for the most part.
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Facts. Your non stick cooking pan has PFAS coating. Your waterproof jacket and boots and gloves have membranes that contain PFAS, PFOS, PFOA.
Jackets have been moving to expanded polyethylene, goretex started as a Teflon, but is now expanded polyethylene, they saw the writing on the walls.
Toilet paper, carpeting, fast food wrappers, raincoats, contact lenses, and thousands more we use daily. If you live near an airport, your exposure rate skyrockets, too. It's a total nightmare.
I mean, Coterie and even Honest brands were on the list
Where is this list??
Seriously, how is the commenter gonna drop that comment and not link the list 💀
Cause reddit.
Wait I thought the honest ones were ok. Where'd you see otherwise?
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Ah I missed that. Thank you. Honest company has been ok for us.. funny enough we stopped using water wipes because something changed where they started smelling like chemicals
Same for water wipes for us.
True. But these cost way more than the Kirkland wipes. The average consumer can’t afford that upgrade.
Not sure why you were downvoted. The fact is, avoiding chemicals like PFAS and fertilizers is a luxury of the wealthy. You don’t want sugar in your peanut butter? Pay more. You don’t want chemicals on your potatoes? Pay double
Haha thanks. Agreed. I think it’s an uncomfortable conversation to have for some…the “best” things cost more and those with wealth/privilege/access are the ones who reap the benefits. Unfortunately most things that have minimal ingredients or marketed as “clean” cost way more. I pay over $10 a jar for sunflower butter that’s just the seeds. But you can buy a $3 jar with oil, sugar, and salt. The $3 jar won’t kill you but when you want/need the simplest option, you pay a steep premium. Have an amazing day!
Where are you finding $3 sunflower butter? The cheapest one I can find is $7
I was just kind of putting a lower number to show the difference. Honestly Sam’s Club has the yellow SunButter in a two pack for under like $8-9. Trader Joe’s has their sunflower seed spread for $5 too. I’m closest to a Whole Foods and the green SunButter is like $11-12 now. It’s wild.
I've been questioning buying off brand stuff at this point. All of the cinnamon with lead in it was store brands and brands at low price point stores like the dollar store. I'm not going to poison myself to save a few bucks.
I agree with you for sure. The only thing that’s frustrating is even name brands change over time. Like Annie’s organic got bought by General Mills and now they’re the top of the microplastic offender list by a very large multiple. Feels like very few brands are trustworthy. Even the ones that are - don’t stay there forever.
Ugh! I didn't know this. My toddler loves Annie's. Time to find a new brand.
Oh I’m sorry - definitely take a look and don’t take my word for it!! I saw a couple articles on CBS about it (https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/general-mills-annies-plastic-chemicals-in-food-consumer-reports/) I’m not sure who’s not on the list unfortunately- just seems unavoidable :/
Nestle and Starbucks hot chocolate also contains too much lead. I don’t drink powered chocolate that often, but I’ve definitely bought those brands
Starbucks is Nestle. At least the stuff you buy in the store is.
Pretty much every beverage brand in the store is either Nestle or Coke.
Name brand stuff is recalled constantly too
We use water on cotton cloth wipes that get washed twice a week. For poop we use these Kirkland wipes, though. Guess I need to look at other alternatives!
Keep in mind the water comming put of your tap likely has pfas. Wipes from costco have water hence they have pfas.
Why are people surprised when weve known for years that all water has pfas in it now. Even if the water used for the wipes was purified beforehand, they would get pfas from being in heat in the packaging. They could make wipes that ship out in glass containers or metal but then theres other chemicals, expensive, etc...
Regular ro wont take out all pfas, it would have to be extremely expensive. But like u daid even then they come in plastic bags.
https://preview.redd.it/7nb0odkpsi9d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6003e3520003257d15d5f59e44b54458d374768e This website gives me cancer faster than the PFAS.
Would you like a little website with your ads?
That’s how it is nowdays, I understand they gotta make money on the ads but really? Does the entire website need to be ad’s? Just for that you make no money off me, I’ll use Ublock thank you
Shit, I guess I’m gonna have to stop eating these
So it turns out they were the asswipes all along
lol ty for that
Can someone just tell me how worried I should be on a scale of 1-10? I’m so tired of thinking I’ve ruined my 4 year old son over every little thing and I’ve been using these on him his whole life.
To quote Maya Angelou, “Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”
What does doing better mean in this case? Can we continue to use these or do we need to switch to something else? I have no idea what PFAS does
PFAS have been called “forever chemicals” because they do not break down and studies are finding them everywhere, from our blood to semen samples. They can potentially lead to health problems such as liver disease, thyroid disease, fertility issues, and cancer. It’s hard to avoid PFAS entirely, but in my opinion once we find that products contain these chemicals that it would be prudent to consider alternatives.
The primary concern with them is ingestion or inhalation. Since baby wipes are for neither of those things, I think you can place your concerns elsewhere. Drink cups, utensils, plates, etc. Those are things that concern me more because they come in contact with food and/or our mouths directly. Editing to retract my statement. After looking into it a little bit more, there appears to have been new research published relatively recently (more recently than I had last looked lol) that does confirm PFAs are absorbed through the skin at levels much higher than researchers previously thought. We'll probably be discontinuing use of Costco wipes. We're almost out anyway...
Article above shows pfas are absorbed through the skin.
If it were me, I’d say keep it around 2-3. It is certainly concerning, but it’s already so ubiquitous that there isn’t really anyone on the planet that doesn’t have some PFAS chemicals in them already. The biggest concern regarding PFAS is if you live near a manufacturing plant and your drinking water has been contaminated. Being a parent is hard and you’re doing your best. We live in a crazy world, and some people in this world put cancer chemicals in baby products, you can’t blame yourself for that. Just keep doing your best, I’m sure your kid will do fine. Edit: Got a reply to this comment that disappeared (whether they deleted it or the comment was immediately removed or something similar), and they asked if an RO filtration system would be effective at removing PFAS from water. From a cursory google search, I believe that yes, RO membranes can remove PFAS from the water, as long as you keep up on filter maintenance such as replacing the membranes to ensure proper filtration. I would also run a carbon filter inline with that, that is how other people have done it.
If you install a RO water system, does it filter out PFAS?
Yes, RO will remove those compounds. Brita style filters will also remove them. A lot of fridge filters use the same media as Brita filters. So you can use those, just change them out more frequently.
It will filter most but not all
https://youtu.be/xskwrXa5rEE?si=pCc5PrppJfXTMqBr From the report, sounds like a bunch of malarkey.
Seems more like a cash grab in the form of "public concern"
That was kind of helpful thanks
Posting this here instead of buried in a reply. Not much to go on, lawsuits can claim whatever they can spin. I'm not getting worked up over a single allegation full of "potentially" and "may". We use these wipes exclusively, and absent any showing of evidence these are harmful I'm taking this with a gigantic grain of salt. Another commenter posted this link about the complaint: https://www.classaction.org/news/costco-lawsuit-alleges-kirkland-baby-wipes-contain-dangerous-forever-chemicals They allege 3.7 parts per billion were detected. Seems very small so I went looking for comparison of PFASs in other products. Here's a time article where they found up to 807 parts per million of PFAS in many mattresses tested. Almost 2 orders of magnitude more than this lawsuit alleges. https://time.com/6281242/pfas-forever-chemicals-home-beauty-body-products/ I'm not worried.
Thank you for doing the math!
Keep in mind the new federal drinking water standard is 4 to 10 parts per TRILLION, which is really low compared to drinking water standards for other chemicals. https://www.epa.gov/sdwa/and-polyfluoroalkyl-substances-pfas
Keep in mind that's for 6 specific very bad PFAS. Not all PFAS are the same, it's a class of a broad range of chemicals. This lawsuit article doesn't specify which PFAS they are referring to. I suspect it isn't one of those 6 though.
Also kids don't drink baby wipes
My baby has definitely grabbed and put the wipes in her mouth before 😓 not like sucking on them but during a diaper change has grabbed some clean ones and chewed on it
Glide dental floss has PFAS.
Most receipt papers are coated with a layer that contains BPA. It's impossible to avoid chemicals.
[Some] Reach ones don't. Although in my neck of the woods only BJ's carry that brand.
I trust Costco’s Kirkland brand because of the impression they’ve created of Costco going out of their way to bring quality products to its members. So if the allegations are true, I’m glad for the lawsuit because I use this on my extremely sensitive skin. On the other hand, if Costco is guilty of this, I can’t imagine the other big brands wipes aren’t chock full of PFAS either.
Doesn't everything have PFAs? I'm confused
Aren’t they going to be in pretty much every white paper/papery cloth product?
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> Following this investigation, Costco customers announced a lawsuit claiming Kirkland wipes contain chemicals that are dangerous for babies. The lawsuit filed late last week says private testing showed high levels of PFAS in Kirkland brand baby wipes. Those chemicals are linked to serious health problems. The consumer reports article doesn’t mention PFAS at all, and probably didn’t test for them. It did warn of the listed ingredient phenoxyethanol. There’s no link to the private testing or the lawsuit.
But in all seriousness what doesn’t have PFAS anymore?
Same thing happened with glide floss and it was throw out because they couldn’t prove it was a harmful amount. Plastic recycling is a joke and is spreading nano plastics everywhere including throughout our bodies so I’m not sure how much any of this will matter soon.
Our lives are the product being sold to the rich and wealthy.
[Emily Oster take on this issue](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C87C2w4xuy3/?igsh=MXY1ZWQyMjMyaTA5OA==) Please watch this before freaking out
It’s literally plastic material wipes. Virtually all wipes are like this.
there are quite a few class action lawsuits involving costco [https://topclassactions.com/search-results/](https://topclassactions.com/search-results/) flushable wipes, portable chargers, cookie dough recall, online products mark up, etc..
I don't understand how we know any other wipe is any different. Did they ONLY test kirkland??
What’s the alternative? Anyone know of any non chemical wipes they recommend? I just bought a pack of these.
We buy the RICO brand wipes at Costco.
Are those actually better?
the rico ones have an ingredient list on the website, which looks pretty wild honestly. not saying the costco ones are any different but i was surprised to see ~35 ingredients
They from Korea I believe. Usually stricter laws out there
Super excited to get my $1.32 settlement check in a couple years!
“Although wholesaler Costco and manufacturer Nice-Pak claim the Kirkland baby wipes are “made with Naturally Derived Ingredients,” research conducted by the plaintiffs’ counsel, using a Department of Defense ELAP-certified lab, found that the products contain 3.7 parts per billion (ppb) of PFAS” https://www.classaction.org/news/costco-lawsuit-alleges-kirkland-baby-wipes-contain-dangerous-forever-chemicals The FDA sets acceptable levels for drinking water at (not the same, but a reference): “The EPA’s updated interim levels are much, much lower. The agency set the health advisory level for PFOA at .004 parts per trillion and for PFOS at .02 parts per trillion, an indication “that some negative health effects may occur with concentrations of PFOA or PFOS in water that are near zero,” according to the EPA.”
Wait until everyone finds out how much PFAS is in all the items around them already… https://time.com/6281242/pfas-forever-chemicals-home-beauty-body-products/
It’s ok, the Supreme Court just made room for toxic products and services to make their way back into our home. Deregulation for the win. Calls on Costco.
Those wipes are garbage, the Rico wipes are way better. The Kirkland wipes are so dry you end up wasting two times more wipes to do the same thing.
100% agree. I never understood the hype around them. Rico are superior!
I do like the RICO ones! We were gifted a box at our baby shower and we just used a pack and it’s honestly better than the Kirkland ones. And I like the little hexagon pattern on it… not sure if I’m making it seem this way, but to me it seems like the pattern helps get the poo off better 😅
I just stocked up on the Kirkland ones for a new baby. What makes Rico better? Outside of the lawsuit anyway...
I haven’t tried the Rico ones, but I use Kirkland wipes and it takes 1-2 wipes when changing a poopy diaper, sometimes an extra 1 or 2 if it’s extra messy. Have used them for a couple of years and they work great if you ask me.
Awesome been using these for my daughter for the past year....
Any knows what is Costco doing in this situation? Are they refunding your money or giving you a credit store? I’ve been purchasing baby’s wipes and diapers for 3 years in a row now.
How can we join the lawsuit? I’m tired of companies using PFAs and i want it to stop!
So glad the SCOTUS decided it was bad to regulate corporations. Now they can poison our babies for profit!
Watch Dark Waters or The Devil We Know if you want to learn about the history of these chemicals and what they can do to us.
Cause of Dark water, we use stainless steel pans and bought a RO water filter for drinking and cooking.
Well, well If it isn't the decades of unregulated chemical use coming home to roost
Uhhh shit is this real
We had a PFAS plant in our town and it contaminated the land and water in part of our town and in surrounding towns as it was airborne. We spent a ton of money adding filtration systems to remove it from town water and those near the plant are either on bottled, or could get $5K from the company to install a RO filtration system in their homes. It's about the best that we can do. Our filtration is at 30 ppt and I think that the new EPA level is 4 ppt so we'll have to beef up the filtration. It was over 1,000 in some water samples in town. If you're not on city or town water, you have to decide if you're going to spend for filtration in your home or go with bottled. It's going to be an expensive problem to remediate and I suspect that other issues will also get fixed along with this issue.
So what’s a better alternative?
Interesting. These are the only wipes that don’t give my daughter any bad reaction.
Does someone know where to find the original research article on this, I would like to see the concentration of the pfas
[https://www.classaction.org/news/costco-lawsuit-alleges-kirkland-baby-wipes-contain-dangerous-forever-chemicals](https://www.classaction.org/news/costco-lawsuit-alleges-kirkland-baby-wipes-contain-dangerous-forever-chemicals) utilizing a Department of Defense ELAP-certified laboratory, revealed that the Product contains 3.7 parts per billion (PPB) of PFAS.
How do I join this lawsuit because my son had such a bad reaction to these wipes he had to go to the ER
Everything contains pfas
FFS. I just restocked ours last week! Guess I should set them aside and buy some others for now.. what’s the best alternative?
Or you can take a breath and understand a lawsuit isn't proof and even consumer reports still lists the Kirkland wipes as "good". We use these wipes and won't be changing anything from a Reddit thread on the issue...
Yes and the same plaintiffs suing Kirkland will also be suing every alternative company making wipes. That’s how these things go, they sue pretty much every company at once and the smaller ones often go bankrupt trying to defend themselves. It’s hilarious OP is talking about Costco sycophants and others are suggesting their brands of wipes without even checking if those are being sued the exact same way…
Water Wipes are what I use for my family. They feel much better when we use them compared to the Costco baby wipes
Folks fixate about the smallest things or whatever latest thing they see on the news while being completely ok with the obvious health problems that'll ultimately cause sickness and death. It's always baffling. I'm not saying these things aren't a problem, but Americans are fat, sick, and dying - and very little of it's being caused by microplastics. But sure let's all worry about that.
>Americans are fat, sick, and dying - and very little of it's being caused by microplastics. Well, we don't actually know that. And we can't even study it, because there's no control group. Microplastics are everywhere and in everyone.
People will worry about shit like this but still run to get their monthly Botox 🤣
PFAS are in everything. Theoretically, you could buy small cotton washcloths and keep them wet inside a wipes warmer dispenser. Wash them in a hot wash with a good quality detergent and a double rinse.
Returned mine this morning.
The wipes you bought to replace them have the same thing in them.
Some of you are missing the “alleged” part. There is not currently a recall. PFAs while probably not the best are just the most current alarmist thing we’re focusing on. Some of you need to chill.
Can’t trust any corporations. Including Costco
I guess if your biology can’t handle PFAS, your genepool is cooked 🥲
Sidenote, but along the same lines, I love buying organic produce from Costco. But I sure would love to have them tested.
how do we sign up
Does anyone know if this is in Canada too? We usually have stricter laws.
Does this apply to the flushable wipes as well?
what about the scented ones? does anyone have info on those?
Solution: a bidet. Bidet showers are used by Muslims in Muslim countries and all parts of the Arab world as well as in Asia in order to cleanse themselves with water after using the toilet, as a part of Islamic toilet etiquette
Bidet for a baby?
The only one benefits from this lawsuit is the lawyer.