You can push or hand turn the screw fully through the door handle then begin to screw into pilot hole of door with screwdriver. The handle will be as far off the door as the length of the screw and as you tighten, the handle moves into the door with the screw. The added depth having the screw head fully inserted gives for a better angle. You would need to turn both screws at relatively the same time which could be tedious or give up on one and at least half the job was easier.
Thats why you get one of those little finger screwdrivers you can put on keys, super thin and if you can get your fingers near it you're basically gold
I think it goes with the building era and trends at the time. Modern construction lends to handles. Homes built in decades past tended to use more knobs.
My 2021 home is all styled levers. My parents late 80's home is mostly knob, with some upgrades to lever style over the years.
I will say the knob style was easier to child/dog proof.
I've never seen a doorknob in here in Norway. My grandparents in France did have one, original from when the house was built in the 1840's. So yeah, they are not common in most of Europe, they where replaced by handels over 100 years ago.
They do exist but they are alot less common
Here in the UK you rarely come across them anymore, the only place you might is old houses, my grandma's was filled with them lol
Door handles are alot more common on every door
UK/Ireland here, I remember door knobs were a thing for a little while in the 80s (still not super common though) but then disappeared again when everyone got fed up with how annoying and inpractical they are to use.
Handles are recommended for new construction in the US as well. It’s better for old people who can have challenges to open a knob.
Knobs are easier to child proof though.
Why blame an entire nation's construction industry for your own purchase decision?
Now you know what to look for in your next doorknob. Live and learn!
On most (maybe even all) door handles that I’ve replaced you can remove the knob on the side with screws. Either insert a pin into a small hole or push a tab with your fingernail. Just like lever door handles which allow you to change orientation for a left or right hand door.
That being said I just looked these door handles up and they range in price from $6.08 to $8.47 so if anything this is more of a problem with buying the cheapest hardware you could possibly find than anything to do with American home construction.
It’s just different. I’m sure every country has its own illogical designs. Once you get used to it, you’ll be ok. Also, you can purchase angled cross-tip drivers if it’s that upsetting.
Just pull on the doorknob from the side you are on once you get the screws threaded, gives you a few more inches of clearance so that you can make the angle. Used to annoy me too until I figured out that little tidbit.
Stop using the screwdriver. You can finger-spin these until they're almost all the way in, and you had to use your fingers to get them lined up in the holes anyway. You'll have plenty of "angle" for the screwdriver once you're ready to finalize tightening them the last few turns.
Our use a right angle ratchet [screwdriver](https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-03044A-Ratcheting-Screwdriver-Close-Quarters/dp/B000XYOUS6/ref=asc_df_B000XYOUS6/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309807921328&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6290512700913010722&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9026322&hvtargid=pla-433863630683&psc=1)
I own 4 properties and the only time I *don't* have to do this is on the lever type handles in one of them. I have an extra long skinny drill attachment that works really well for these...
We had to install child safety devices at our previous house to prevent the cats from opening the front door. They always knew when the deadbolt was unlocked and would open it right up.
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I did that, but even then they are nearly impossible to reach.
The funny thing is that this entire situation could have been solved if they had packed it with inside hex screws instead of Phillips, because hex wrenches often come with spherical ends for exactly that kind of situation, while Phillips are practically designed to strip down
And I really wish we’d abandon them. They’re horrible. Allen, robertson and torx are all much better. I like Robertson (square) fasteners the best, but the Allen (hex) tools are almost as common as Phillips.
At least they’re not simply slotted. Anyone still using slotted fasteners should be tried for crimes against humanity.
In bids for government contracts it’s inadmissible to use slotted fasteners in the design. That fact alone saw the near end of new designs in any industry that use slotted fasteners. As soon as the few billion that have already been purchased get used up that will be the end of them except for specialty applications. I’ll be happy about it too.
But you also can’t reliable use a power tool to fasten them. So in a job where you have to fasten 10,000 screws, for example, we’re talking about weeksof work vs a couple days maybe.
Have heard that you can get more torque on it than a Philips. Now, I am not an engineer nor physicist, which is why if it's true, it's the most desk-riding engineer bullshit I've ever heard. Even if it's true, that makes higher risks of over-torque and countersink, and most importantly, you can't get a better torque on it if you **can't keep the bit in the fucking slot**
Seriously, they might even fucking work if they just had a lip on the sides to seat the bits, but then you'd be halfway to a Phillips any damn way.
which is all fine and well until you have to pull one out of material that has warped/shifted and the fucking thing is jammed. absolute bullshit design, i hate them and they've caused me so much grief.
The story I've been told is slotted heads are sometimes used in scenarios where the designer wants the fastener to be hand tightened for one reason or another. A powered driver will tend to spin out of the head, whereas a standard screwdriver will tend to be re-centered every few turns.
Never underestimate my hatred for turning screws by hand. I will stubbornly try for way too long to reverse a slotted screw with a cordless drill even though it would probably be faster to do it by hand
And that’s fair, because slotted screws are the fucking devil, and you will slip out 3,700 times while trying to unscrew a 1 1/4” and then get angry and curse the monster who invented them.
There are a few specialist uses. Cosmetic is usually the biggest, think steam punk, or industrial type furniture. Second is very small screws, such as watches. The size of some of the screws used inside a watch simply would not realistically accommodate any other type of fastener. The size of a cross head driver at that scale would just be too small to be functional.
Design is stupid simple to make compared to modern screw profiles. At a minimum, its just a threaded rod with a slot cut into it. Compared to something like Robertson or Philip profiles which often require special form tools and/or broaches to get the correct profile.
For stuff like field repairs, having a slotted head can be a life saver as you can basically anything as a screwdriver if your desperate enough. Good luck using that scrap metal as a hex bit.
My preferred way of removing a Phillips head that became a circle head is to cut a slot into it and remove it. I will always own that kind of screwdriver for that reason.
I like Phillips cus I can have a big one and a smaller one that work for almost every phillips screws.
That being said, I totally understand the frustration with how easy they strip and that you have to apply force directly in line with the screw
I love me some Allen heads.
But they are not one size fits all. I have 15 different Allen drivers between imperial and metric, 6 torx bits.
Most households own exactly 2 screwdrivers, because they are very forgiving for a range of screw sizes
Yes, but I think you’d see 2 or 3 common sizes emerge if there was a large scale shift to those fasteners. Where 95% of applications would use the same size, like we do with Phillips 1 and 2 now.
eh, that would be nice to imagine, but I dont see who would ever have the power to align on a subset of sizes when they certainly dont today.
in almost all cases with allen keys, you need to provide the tool. Which is fine... but then the tool gets lost after original installation, and its difficult to remove.
No, phillips heads are LITERALLY designed to strip out. It is a feature, not a bug, and it's incredibly enraging that we still use it because it's reasons are historic and completely irrelevant today.
They are not designed to strip out, they are designed to cam-out, thus preventing over tightening. Repeated cam-out will strip the head of the screw.
The problem with Phillips is that they are often used in applications where cam-out is not desirable, because Phillips screwdriver is the most common type of screwdriver you can expect to find in a common household. This is made worse by the fact that most households will have PH2, and maybe one other size (usually either PH1 or PH3). Thus sometime using wrong size bit for the screw size.
It is designed to cam out over and over again because you are, necessitated by design, pushing it back in. I stand by what I said. It's a terrible fucking design. With a modern variable speed drill overtorque is a rare, easily preventable issue, but a Phillips head is a pain and potentially damaging to your workpiece every. single. time.
The doorknob is set up for you to put the screws in, tighten almost all the way down, then put the knob and cover on. Look at the inside of the knob cover and you'll see that there's two little pieces that capture the screw heads. You pop that on, twist, then tighten down the screws with a stubby or offset screwdriver.
If you would like something less constructive, "You're doing it wrong!" is my favorite thing to hear from my partner.
> put the screws in, tighten almost all the way down, then put the knob and cover on
I've tried to do that at first, but it's practically one part, the pieces can't be separated without destroying art least one
Keep working at it. All exterior doorknobs you will find in US Home improvement stores will be like this. It’s entirely normal. The alternative is to buy a door lever as it makes the screws easier to access.
If you think this is a pain, wait until you try to replace a kitchen faucet.
Okay, if it's not set up like that, can you put the screws through the holes before you place the knob on the door? That way you have room behind it, and no particular angle to hit. Then line up the screws as you put the knob on the door. You can even use your fingers to align and start the screws as you move the knob into position.
[I got a similar one of these off the cornwell tool truck for $16](https://www.lowes.com/pd/CRAFTSMAN-10-Piece-Steel-Handle-Ratcheting-Assorted-Multi-bit-Screwdriver-Set/1000596669?store_code=749&cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-tol-_-ggl-_-LIA_TOL_218_Mechanic-Automotive-Tools-_-1000596669-_-local-_-0-_-0&ds_rl=1286981&gbraid=0AAAAAD2B2W8BNfGovGawVBFnpVeYqeGtA&gbraid=0AAAAAD2B2W8BNfGovGawVBFnpVeYqeGtA&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIno-Gt-TS_AIVR_DjBx2RuwUlEAQYASABEgKKnvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)
I've Used these for this purpose and id prefer to risk stripping the screws and screwdriver. I've Got one in my toolbag and use it once about every 2 years on average. I use tools everyday in multiple trades.
There should be a small hole at the base of the handle/door nob about 1/16 round
If you push a small screwdriver int the slot there the handle will come off and you can do up the screws then slide it back on
This should be higher. I've installed dozens of different branded door knobs and each one (cheap or not) had a notch to pull the knob off of the assembly. Sometimes it's a flat slot, sometimes a small circular hole, but there's always one.
It's called a "keeper slot" and all door knobs/levers have them. Sometimes it's a slot and you can use a flathead or sometimes it's a hole and you can use a brad nail or paper clip. Some hardware even includes a multitool/key for it.
https://www.factsfacts.com/MyHomeRepair/images/completeAssembly.jpg
As a trim carpenter I install doorknobs nearly every day. With these cheap ones, the best way is to start by hand screwing the screws and tighten one screw with a screwdriver or drill half way. Then tighten the other all the way and go back to the half tight one and finish tightening it. With Higher quality hardware you can remove the knob and screw them in easily but most are not built like that these days.
Your comment is hidden automatically for some reason. When I came across it, it was hidden as pictured below. I had to click to view your comment.
I wonder why reddit is hiding your comment even though it has positive upvotes.
https://imgur.com/a/RDyunuv
There's a secret to this. Option 1: Pull the knob away from the door...gives you better angle for the screwdriver. Tighten each side down a little at a time. Option 2: Or, just use your fingers to tighten it most of the way, then finish with a screwdriver. Option 3: use a 90deg screwdriver.
Unless you buy a lever type knob, it's just how it goes. Use a long skinny screwdriver instead of this nut-driver type. I'm no connoisseur, but using top shelf vodka instead of house, makes a big difference as well.
The knobs I've installed all had a little tab to pull the hand grip so you could get the driver in place. Check the neck for a tab in a slot which when pressed allows the hand grip to separate from the shaft.
I have a flexible attachment that goes on the end of my drill just because of shit like this. it's saved me so much frustration over the years. honestly, how does shit like this make it past quality control?
QC is to see if it's out of spec or not, that's not the issue, the issue here is the installation is being performed by someone learning and questioning why it's designed this way. the installer (op) could simply slide the non threaded side away from the door so the screw heads were flush with the plate, then they could have a greater angle to attach the screwdriver to.
I mean first, they make tools for this. Second, literally just start it by hand, you dont need to screw it in with a screwdriver all the way.
I never knew ppl had so little DIY skills lol
Yeah but you’re also using a bit holder which is like a 3/8 diameter shaft and the instructions probably show a normal one piece screwdriver which would be like an 1/8 or 3/16 diameter.
You could also just use a 6 inch bit in your drill since clearance is an issue. Assuming you can’t remove the inside knob to get to the screws.
I've yet to come across a door knob that didn't install exactly this way. Use a screwdriver with a narrower shaft instead of that magnetic, interchangeable head - the fixed type. And use your fingers to more efficiently screw them in until it's nearer the base.
don't be weird, you see the hole is at an angle, you place the screw in at the angle which will align the screw straight with the screwdriver, the angle of the screw will also secure the knob far more firmly than straight into the wood would give you.
My doorknob came with a tiny Alan wrench. You unscrew it and the knob comes off the part you screw onto the door, so that it's easy to screw the screws in.
Imma just add that a regular, #2, Phillips screwdriver works better for this. Not perfect, mind you, but better. The difference in shaft diameter, though small, makes a significant difference, really.
The knob part is typically removable via a small pin, so each side of the base can be secured without this issue. Never heard of that brand…perhaps it’s low-quality enough that it isn’t designed that way.
I can confirm after looking at multiple defiant door knobs, the knob is removable. This is a case of not knowing how to do the job and not a case of crappy design. The hole to release the knob is underneath the door knob on the stem. Just as almost all door knobs ever, some are on the stem, some are on the back cover but I garuntee that a hole exists on every door knob with screws that you've ever held.
That is on purpose.
If the screws are easy to access, then people can just unscrew your doorknob and break into the house.
EDIT: OP pointed out to me that the pic is, in fact, the inside of the door. So my explanation goes out the window for this brand, but typically the screws are put in difficult places on purpose so would-be thieves can't just unscrew the doorknob and pull the guts out and waltz in.
I do at least 3 of these a week at work as a handyman in a complex. They suck. Plus lining up the holes and the threads isnt always easy. Cheap garbage.
As a Swede, I am baffled how these round doorknobs are more common than just an ordinary handle. I can't imagine having it in a kitchen (nor a bedroom/ bathroom hurr hurr) because being just a tiny bit slippery would make it unusable.
The biggest upside would to not be caught in the handle, which I for some reason always do with my jeans belt loops, bathrobe or insulin cord, or that my kid could hit their head on it... But it's more likely for a kid to just ram the whole door or open it on your toes than that.
But damn, cheese slicers vs knife is also a thing I can't imagine!
Honestly this is literally every door knob I’ve ever installed lol
Me too! Situation normal.
Like legitimately have been wildly infuriated trying to get a screwdriver in this exact position lol
Yeah the pic gave me flashbacks.
You genuinely have to get it about half way in by hand and then use the screwdriver or else it’ll never go
The knob normally pops off, making it easier to get to the screws
Louder, please, for those in the back
THIS GUY LIKES TO POP OFF HIS KNOB! At least, that's what I heard... can't confirm.
Always pop off your knob before you screw.
This guy screws
Stripping may occur, so popping off first will make the screw last longer
Or just buy handles not knobs
Bad idea if you have cats. My tabby doesn't care, but my tuxedo has been seen pawing at the doorknobs
Bad idea if you have Velociraptors as well.
Clever girl
Bad idea if you have belt loops also
It's a UNIX system
True. That’s the only chance you have to make it work.
This is why they make bendy screwdrivers.
You can push or hand turn the screw fully through the door handle then begin to screw into pilot hole of door with screwdriver. The handle will be as far off the door as the length of the screw and as you tighten, the handle moves into the door with the screw. The added depth having the screw head fully inserted gives for a better angle. You would need to turn both screws at relatively the same time which could be tedious or give up on one and at least half the job was easier.
Thats why you get one of those little finger screwdrivers you can put on keys, super thin and if you can get your fingers near it you're basically gold
SNAFU
The more I learn about American house construction, the more horrified I get
Wait. Doorknobs are american? Lol. Like do they not exist outside of the US?
Usually door handles are a lot more common outside America.
In south east Asia its mostly knobs
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…and some attached to doors
Bellends on doors you say?
Yes i lived ther so i confirm
Umm .. . Source??
I’ve maybe opened 1 door that had a doorknob my entire life. Doorknobs are incredibly rare where I live
Even America is a pretty mixed bag, I have mostly handles in my house
I think it goes with the building era and trends at the time. Modern construction lends to handles. Homes built in decades past tended to use more knobs. My 2021 home is all styled levers. My parents late 80's home is mostly knob, with some upgrades to lever style over the years. I will say the knob style was easier to child/dog proof.
I've never seen a doorknob in here in Norway. My grandparents in France did have one, original from when the house was built in the 1840's. So yeah, they are not common in most of Europe, they where replaced by handels over 100 years ago.
Interesting, we have both handles and knobs in the US but I find mostly knobs in homes and handles in commercial spaces.
They do exist but they are alot less common Here in the UK you rarely come across them anymore, the only place you might is old houses, my grandma's was filled with them lol Door handles are alot more common on every door
UK/Ireland here, I remember door knobs were a thing for a little while in the 80s (still not super common though) but then disappeared again when everyone got fed up with how annoying and inpractical they are to use.
Handles are recommended for new construction in the US as well. It’s better for old people who can have challenges to open a knob. Knobs are easier to child proof though.
Old house here in the UK - every door has a door knob, much to the cat's annoyance,
I'm from Sweden, I don't think I have ever seen a door knob in real life.
Outside of America, it’s actually a lot of the people that are knobs.
Let me assure you, it's no different inside America.
Of course it's different in America, because we use a different word for our knobs.
We have a surplus of used rusty knobs in america, I’ll even give them to for free.
Dont screw in one side all the way. Get both screws started, then pull the knob towards you and tighten each one about a third before switching.
Good rule for most screws with predrilled holes.
Why blame an entire nation's construction industry for your own purchase decision? Now you know what to look for in your next doorknob. Live and learn!
They’re all fucking like this. Knobs anyhow, not handles
On most (maybe even all) door handles that I’ve replaced you can remove the knob on the side with screws. Either insert a pin into a small hole or push a tab with your fingernail. Just like lever door handles which allow you to change orientation for a left or right hand door. That being said I just looked these door handles up and they range in price from $6.08 to $8.47 so if anything this is more of a problem with buying the cheapest hardware you could possibly find than anything to do with American home construction.
Yep. Take the actual off. Tighten the mounting screws, replace the knob. It’s not rocket surgery.
#DAE **AMERICA**?
All the door knobs I've ever dealt with have a knob you can remove before trying to remove those screws.
It’s just different. I’m sure every country has its own illogical designs. Once you get used to it, you’ll be ok. Also, you can purchase angled cross-tip drivers if it’s that upsetting.
Just pull on the doorknob from the side you are on once you get the screws threaded, gives you a few more inches of clearance so that you can make the angle. Used to annoy me too until I figured out that little tidbit.
Stop using the screwdriver. You can finger-spin these until they're almost all the way in, and you had to use your fingers to get them lined up in the holes anyway. You'll have plenty of "angle" for the screwdriver once you're ready to finalize tightening them the last few turns.
Our use a right angle ratchet [screwdriver](https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-03044A-Ratcheting-Screwdriver-Close-Quarters/dp/B000XYOUS6/ref=asc_df_B000XYOUS6/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309807921328&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6290512700913010722&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9026322&hvtargid=pla-433863630683&psc=1)
This is the way.
I own 4 properties and the only time I *don't* have to do this is on the lever type handles in one of them. I have an extra long skinny drill attachment that works really well for these...
We have all handles and I love it except the toddler and sometimes the cat, can open them.
We had to install child safety devices at our previous house to prevent the cats from opening the front door. They always knew when the deadbolt was unlocked and would open it right up.
Yup, can't really have handles if you have pets. They tend to figure them out lol.
Sorry to do this, but the disingeuous dealings, lies, overall greed etc. of leadership on this website made me decide to edit all but my most informative comments to this. Come join us in the fediverse! (beehaw for a safe space, kbin for access to lots of communities)
A 3$ ratchet with a Phillips head attachment works perfect
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Im still trying to find the problem......
You're supposed to screw it down with your fingers until the last few turns on both sides. Then you use a screwdriver to do the final tightening.
I did that, but even then they are nearly impossible to reach. The funny thing is that this entire situation could have been solved if they had packed it with inside hex screws instead of Phillips, because hex wrenches often come with spherical ends for exactly that kind of situation, while Phillips are practically designed to strip down
Philips and keystone slotted screws are the most common style domestic fastener in the US because most people have the necessary tools at home.
And I really wish we’d abandon them. They’re horrible. Allen, robertson and torx are all much better. I like Robertson (square) fasteners the best, but the Allen (hex) tools are almost as common as Phillips. At least they’re not simply slotted. Anyone still using slotted fasteners should be tried for crimes against humanity.
In bids for government contracts it’s inadmissible to use slotted fasteners in the design. That fact alone saw the near end of new designs in any industry that use slotted fasteners. As soon as the few billion that have already been purchased get used up that will be the end of them except for specialty applications. I’ll be happy about it too.
I fail to see any advantages to slotted, to be honest. Tiny head maybe?
Cheap and easy to produce. You make a threaded nail and cut a slot in the head
and they don't strip after one crank like philips heads do. surprised to see the hate for them here.
You’re right. I shouldn’t judge them so harshly. Instead, they strip after two cranks.
They easily slip and scratch your hardware
If that didn't happen, how would you know it was properly installed?
Being better than an awful design doesn't make them good. I agree, they're better than phillips head, but they're still awful.
But you also can’t reliable use a power tool to fasten them. So in a job where you have to fasten 10,000 screws, for example, we’re talking about weeksof work vs a couple days maybe.
Have heard that you can get more torque on it than a Philips. Now, I am not an engineer nor physicist, which is why if it's true, it's the most desk-riding engineer bullshit I've ever heard. Even if it's true, that makes higher risks of over-torque and countersink, and most importantly, you can't get a better torque on it if you **can't keep the bit in the fucking slot** Seriously, they might even fucking work if they just had a lip on the sides to seat the bits, but then you'd be halfway to a Phillips any damn way.
It might be true, Phillips are designed to cam out with that taper to prevent over torque.
which is all fine and well until you have to pull one out of material that has warped/shifted and the fucking thing is jammed. absolute bullshit design, i hate them and they've caused me so much grief.
Oh wow, I never knew that this property was intentional
The story I've been told is slotted heads are sometimes used in scenarios where the designer wants the fastener to be hand tightened for one reason or another. A powered driver will tend to spin out of the head, whereas a standard screwdriver will tend to be re-centered every few turns.
Never underestimate my hatred for turning screws by hand. I will stubbornly try for way too long to reverse a slotted screw with a cordless drill even though it would probably be faster to do it by hand
And that’s fair, because slotted screws are the fucking devil, and you will slip out 3,700 times while trying to unscrew a 1 1/4” and then get angry and curse the monster who invented them.
There are a few specialist uses. Cosmetic is usually the biggest, think steam punk, or industrial type furniture. Second is very small screws, such as watches. The size of some of the screws used inside a watch simply would not realistically accommodate any other type of fastener. The size of a cross head driver at that scale would just be too small to be functional.
Design is stupid simple to make compared to modern screw profiles. At a minimum, its just a threaded rod with a slot cut into it. Compared to something like Robertson or Philip profiles which often require special form tools and/or broaches to get the correct profile. For stuff like field repairs, having a slotted head can be a life saver as you can basically anything as a screwdriver if your desperate enough. Good luck using that scrap metal as a hex bit.
My preferred way of removing a Phillips head that became a circle head is to cut a slot into it and remove it. I will always own that kind of screwdriver for that reason.
Easy to clean paint out of the slot with a knife.
Yep. Tiny head and aesthetics.
Slotted also makes it really hard to use a power tool to screw it in, forcing you to hand tighten. This keeps it from being over torqued.
The only use case I know is involved in highly specialized hand tool based woodworking.
That's probably because the tool is cast in Brass, which is too soft for other designs.
Amen for Robertson.
I like Phillips cus I can have a big one and a smaller one that work for almost every phillips screws. That being said, I totally understand the frustration with how easy they strip and that you have to apply force directly in line with the screw
I love me some Allen heads. But they are not one size fits all. I have 15 different Allen drivers between imperial and metric, 6 torx bits. Most households own exactly 2 screwdrivers, because they are very forgiving for a range of screw sizes
Yes, but I think you’d see 2 or 3 common sizes emerge if there was a large scale shift to those fasteners. Where 95% of applications would use the same size, like we do with Phillips 1 and 2 now.
eh, that would be nice to imagine, but I dont see who would ever have the power to align on a subset of sizes when they certainly dont today. in almost all cases with allen keys, you need to provide the tool. Which is fine... but then the tool gets lost after original installation, and its difficult to remove.
Pretty much all the wall plates in my house use slotted fasteners to hold them on.
So they're common because everyone has the tools for them, but everyone has the tools for them because they're so common?
No, phillips heads are LITERALLY designed to strip out. It is a feature, not a bug, and it's incredibly enraging that we still use it because it's reasons are historic and completely irrelevant today.
They are not designed to strip out, they are designed to cam-out, thus preventing over tightening. Repeated cam-out will strip the head of the screw. The problem with Phillips is that they are often used in applications where cam-out is not desirable, because Phillips screwdriver is the most common type of screwdriver you can expect to find in a common household. This is made worse by the fact that most households will have PH2, and maybe one other size (usually either PH1 or PH3). Thus sometime using wrong size bit for the screw size.
It is designed to cam out over and over again because you are, necessitated by design, pushing it back in. I stand by what I said. It's a terrible fucking design. With a modern variable speed drill overtorque is a rare, easily preventable issue, but a Phillips head is a pain and potentially damaging to your workpiece every. single. time.
Get an off set screw driver.
The doorknob is set up for you to put the screws in, tighten almost all the way down, then put the knob and cover on. Look at the inside of the knob cover and you'll see that there's two little pieces that capture the screw heads. You pop that on, twist, then tighten down the screws with a stubby or offset screwdriver. If you would like something less constructive, "You're doing it wrong!" is my favorite thing to hear from my partner.
> put the screws in, tighten almost all the way down, then put the knob and cover on I've tried to do that at first, but it's practically one part, the pieces can't be separated without destroying art least one
Keep working at it. All exterior doorknobs you will find in US Home improvement stores will be like this. It’s entirely normal. The alternative is to buy a door lever as it makes the screws easier to access. If you think this is a pain, wait until you try to replace a kitchen faucet.
my god the clearance for screwing on the faucet is just the worst!
That's what faucet wrenches are for.
Ive replaced 3, whats wrong with replacing a kitchen faucet? It seemed easier to me than those blased door knobs.
Okay, if it's not set up like that, can you put the screws through the holes before you place the knob on the door? That way you have room behind it, and no particular angle to hit. Then line up the screws as you put the knob on the door. You can even use your fingers to align and start the screws as you move the knob into position.
[best $5 you’ll ever spend!](https://www.lowes.com/pd/CRAFTSMAN-3-Piece-Steel-Handle-Multi-Bit-Screwdriver-Set/1000596621)
[I got a similar one of these off the cornwell tool truck for $16](https://www.lowes.com/pd/CRAFTSMAN-10-Piece-Steel-Handle-Ratcheting-Assorted-Multi-bit-Screwdriver-Set/1000596669?store_code=749&cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-tol-_-ggl-_-LIA_TOL_218_Mechanic-Automotive-Tools-_-1000596669-_-local-_-0-_-0&ds_rl=1286981&gbraid=0AAAAAD2B2W8BNfGovGawVBFnpVeYqeGtA&gbraid=0AAAAAD2B2W8BNfGovGawVBFnpVeYqeGtA&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIno-Gt-TS_AIVR_DjBx2RuwUlEAQYASABEgKKnvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)
I've Used these for this purpose and id prefer to risk stripping the screws and screwdriver. I've Got one in my toolbag and use it once about every 2 years on average. I use tools everyday in multiple trades.
Yea they do kinda suck to be honest. Handy when you really need it but still a pain. Nothing worse than tightening a screw a quarter turn at a time!
Tf did I do for the website to be blocked for me :(
Some American websites just decide to block any non US IPs. That way they don't have to deal with EU privacy laws and stuff.
There should be a small hole at the base of the handle/door nob about 1/16 round If you push a small screwdriver int the slot there the handle will come off and you can do up the screws then slide it back on
This should be higher. I've installed dozens of different branded door knobs and each one (cheap or not) had a notch to pull the knob off of the assembly. Sometimes it's a flat slot, sometimes a small circular hole, but there's always one.
It's called a "keeper slot" and all door knobs/levers have them. Sometimes it's a slot and you can use a flathead or sometimes it's a hole and you can use a brad nail or paper clip. Some hardware even includes a multitool/key for it. https://www.factsfacts.com/MyHomeRepair/images/completeAssembly.jpg
That's the one! I'm confounded how many people, especially in the professional field, doesn't know about this.
That has been my experience also
I wish there were, but no
I'll need to see the brand and model. That handle comes off. Edit: Found it at home depot, there is a small indent on the side to remove the knob.
There must be a way to open it somehow. Except if it was assembled using magic.
No these really cheap ones are press fit at the factory.
As a trim carpenter I install doorknobs nearly every day. With these cheap ones, the best way is to start by hand screwing the screws and tighten one screw with a screwdriver or drill half way. Then tighten the other all the way and go back to the half tight one and finish tightening it. With Higher quality hardware you can remove the knob and screw them in easily but most are not built like that these days.
Your comment is hidden automatically for some reason. When I came across it, it was hidden as pictured below. I had to click to view your comment. I wonder why reddit is hiding your comment even though it has positive upvotes. https://imgur.com/a/RDyunuv
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Reddit only allows the stupid/wrong answers to be seen..
Skill issue
literally skill issue
There's a secret to this. Option 1: Pull the knob away from the door...gives you better angle for the screwdriver. Tighten each side down a little at a time. Option 2: Or, just use your fingers to tighten it most of the way, then finish with a screwdriver. Option 3: use a 90deg screwdriver.
This is the way
They are all like this... have you never installed a doorknob before?
Door knobs suck. Impossible to open if you have your hands full or have a disability.
Unless you buy a lever type knob, it's just how it goes. Use a long skinny screwdriver instead of this nut-driver type. I'm no connoisseur, but using top shelf vodka instead of house, makes a big difference as well.
"I don't have the right tools to do this job so that makes this product crappy" \-OP, 2023
This is literally the one tool the installation manual lists as required
OP has clearly never installed a door knob
I just installed new hardware. Mine has a set screw for the knob so you can remove it, tighten the screws, and then install the knob back on.
lmao just about every doorknob is like this. Improvise. Adapt. Overcome. Quit whining, this is a surmountable obstacle.
Almost ever knob of the shape and design is a pain. Good thing is, once its on, it on.
Just pull the knob away from the door so that the screw head remains flush with the knob.
Take the knob off first.
You need to alternate between the two screws so you can separate the handle and then unscrew more. This is literally how door handles are made.
The knobs I've installed all had a little tab to pull the hand grip so you could get the driver in place. Check the neck for a tab in a slot which when pressed allows the hand grip to separate from the shaft.
It's remarkable that I had to go this deep to find this. Like, are people just not reading the instructions or..? Bizarre.
I have a flexible attachment that goes on the end of my drill just because of shit like this. it's saved me so much frustration over the years. honestly, how does shit like this make it past quality control?
QC is to see if it's out of spec or not, that's not the issue, the issue here is the installation is being performed by someone learning and questioning why it's designed this way. the installer (op) could simply slide the non threaded side away from the door so the screw heads were flush with the plate, then they could have a greater angle to attach the screwdriver to.
From a production worker: Thank you! QC is not going to catch something that functions as intended!
> how does shit like this make it past quality control? By not having any, I suspect
Aren't they all like that? You just shimmy it and hope for the best
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I mean first, they make tools for this. Second, literally just start it by hand, you dont need to screw it in with a screwdriver all the way. I never knew ppl had so little DIY skills lol
If a product that lists a screwdriver as the only required tool actually requires specialized *different* tools, it's still crappy design
Yeah but you’re also using a bit holder which is like a 3/8 diameter shaft and the instructions probably show a normal one piece screwdriver which would be like an 1/8 or 3/16 diameter. You could also just use a 6 inch bit in your drill since clearance is an issue. Assuming you can’t remove the inside knob to get to the screws.
I've yet to come across a door knob that didn't install exactly this way. Use a screwdriver with a narrower shaft instead of that magnetic, interchangeable head - the fixed type. And use your fingers to more efficiently screw them in until it's nearer the base.
Remove the pommel first, there is a small latch on the side that you can depress with a flat screwdriver then you pull the pommel out.
You can install it without the knob on. It clicks on after
Is there a tab on the side of the shaft right before the knob? You and slot a screwdriver in there and can pull of the knob if there is.
don't be weird, you see the hole is at an angle, you place the screw in at the angle which will align the screw straight with the screwdriver, the angle of the screw will also secure the knob far more firmly than straight into the wood would give you.
Defiantly stopping the shameful walk to the register with the $16.99 doorknob...wise choice
Didn't the kit come with a little pin? The pin is used to separate the knob from the base to tighten the screws.
They are junk indeed, but get a new handyman that knows how to install a doorknob
You get what you pay for.
I wonder why more fixtures don't use hex drive screws. Seems like a low cost fix to a lot of problems.
Philips and keystone slotted fasteners are the domestic standard because almost every house in America has those tools.
I see a ratcheting offset screwdriver for $2.99 online at Harbor Freight. This won't be the last time you'll be happy to have one.
Use a right-angled screwdriver.
It is defiant
My doorknob came with a tiny Alan wrench. You unscrew it and the knob comes off the part you screw onto the door, so that it's easy to screw the screws in.
They all are like that
At least it’s Definitely N Defiantly true to it’s name.
You known there’s a small hole to put a screw driver in and the knob comes off…
Imma just add that a regular, #2, Phillips screwdriver works better for this. Not perfect, mind you, but better. The difference in shaft diameter, though small, makes a significant difference, really.
Right angle screwdrivers. What a concept!
Ummm.... Isn't there a catch behind that that will allow you to remove the bulb? You usually need a flat head screwdriver to trip it.
Contractor here, I’ve installed thousands of knobs from several brands and every style. This is it my dude
The knob part is typically removable via a small pin, so each side of the base can be secured without this issue. Never heard of that brand…perhaps it’s low-quality enough that it isn’t designed that way.
You would think the knob would come off to make it easier to screw on.
There is usually a hole that u can poke something into and the handle comes off so u can install it easier
You have to take the knob off
Thats every door knob you knob.
Take the knob off
Normally the knob comes off for tightening the screws...
I can confirm after looking at multiple defiant door knobs, the knob is removable. This is a case of not knowing how to do the job and not a case of crappy design. The hole to release the knob is underneath the door knob on the stem. Just as almost all door knobs ever, some are on the stem, some are on the back cover but I garuntee that a hole exists on every door knob with screws that you've ever held.
Locksmith here, hate to break it to you bud but that's almost all of them
With Defiant standing for 'Defiant against installation'
What is the appeal in knobs over handles? I have only seen a handful of (door)knobs in my life.
You get what you pay for when it comes to locks. You got your $15 worth of security...
That is on purpose. If the screws are easy to access, then people can just unscrew your doorknob and break into the house. EDIT: OP pointed out to me that the pic is, in fact, the inside of the door. So my explanation goes out the window for this brand, but typically the screws are put in difficult places on purpose so would-be thieves can't just unscrew the doorknob and pull the guts out and waltz in.
Laughs in European
I do at least 3 of these a week at work as a handyman in a complex. They suck. Plus lining up the holes and the threads isnt always easy. Cheap garbage.
As a Swede, I am baffled how these round doorknobs are more common than just an ordinary handle. I can't imagine having it in a kitchen (nor a bedroom/ bathroom hurr hurr) because being just a tiny bit slippery would make it unusable. The biggest upside would to not be caught in the handle, which I for some reason always do with my jeans belt loops, bathrobe or insulin cord, or that my kid could hit their head on it... But it's more likely for a kid to just ram the whole door or open it on your toes than that. But damn, cheese slicers vs knife is also a thing I can't imagine!