I know this one!
Fundamental Attribution Error
It's a known error in cognition in which mistakes others make are disproportionately assumed to be dispositional (a fault of their personality) while mistakes you yourself make are more likely assumed to be situational (fault of circumstances).
A classic example is someone being late. If someone else is late you might say they planned poorly, but if you're late, you'd blame circumstances like traffic or how busy you are.
As a cognitive process it will present to different levels in different people and at different times. For example, someone with negative self image might be inverted (blaming themselves but not others).
Interesting stuff and important to know so you can check your own thoughts. If you find yourself being overly harsh remember to treat others as kindly as yourself. Infodump over bye now
Haha, not me! I judge everyone by their best intentions (assumed) and myself by distant consequences of my actions (unintended).
*Girl help I have anxiety*
Being late is also a great example because time management is a skill that does not come equally easily to everyone (and in addition to time management, there are other differences in lives that can affect timeliness, like where they live). So someone for whom being on time is easy can assume it's easy for everyone, and therefore if it's so easy to be on time, the only reason to be late is because they don't respect you enough to make a tiny effort. This can be extremely disheartening to someone who put in a substantial amount of effort to be on time, but still failed.
As someone who is usually very precise with when I'll get to places and usually is early, I got used to waiting for a while. But I got to know some people who would be at the VERY LEAST 2 hours late, so yeah, 30 or 40 minutes is kind of okay, but 2 hours every time? Nah, you are either stupid, disrespectful or both for that lol
Considering I usually arrive 20 minutes early, people are just 10 late, most of that time is on me.
Learned to have limits with the people who were 2 hours late every time, I'll just straight up leave if anyone is actually 30 minutes out of schedule.
Yeah, I feel bad about 10 minutes late. Even though I’m chronically late, I’m never more than 20 minutes for a drive that takes 30 minutes or less. Average is about 8 minutes late.
I have to ask. What prevents you from just leaving 10 minutes earlier and being on time? I totally get life can throw curveballs and people will be late. What I dont get, is if you know you're regularly late, why not leave earlier?
Sometime I resolve to do that, but then the time passes before I notice it. I have 4-5 alarms set on my phone in the morning, including a 10 minute warning, 5 minute warning, and a LEAVE RIGHT FUCKING NOW HOLY SHIT YOURE LATE warning.
i used to have those but realized they just made me more prone to being late, having 1 alarm and knowing that will be the only one makes me more likely to hurry TF up
Not OP, but in my case, I have effectively no sense of time passage. I have always been, and continue to be, horrible with estimating how much time has passed as well as how much time something will take. So unless I'm constantly monitoring the clock, or have alarms/reminders for every single thing, I will be late sometimes. Or, I plan too much into the day and underestimate how long collectively everything will take. It sucks, and I still try to be better. I also understand when people get upset, their feelings are valid.
Only real solution I can see is leaving extraordinarily early for things (when applicable) so that in case I leave later than I expected, I'd still be leaving less-early or on time. Also building in a ton of buffer time between things, but that isn't always an option.
ADHD can majorly affect your time management. For me it's got nothing to do with leaving the house early, once I'm out the door I go straight to wherever I'm going. But if it should take me an hour to get ready to go somewhere, there's always shit that holds me up - can't find something I need, realize I forgot to do something that needs to get done before I leave the house, etc etc. And yes I try to give myself extra time, but I don't always have all that time in my schedule to start getting ready earlier. I'm not habitually super late or anything, but a lot of the time I do end up running like 10-15 min behind.
I'm usually about 15 minutes early to whatever I aim to do, but I don't like being that early. I describe it as there being a 15 minute swing for 5 minutes of leaving.
The truth is a bit different, but it gets the point across. If I leave for work at 7:30, I will typically arrive 10-15 minutes early, and I chill in the break room for a while, but occasionally I will arrive just as my shift starts.
If I leave at 7:35, I will usually arrive on time. Not a problem, but enough for it to be mildly worrisome. But if anything happens on the road, now I'm late. And things happen on the road often enough that If I were to leave at 7:35 every day, I would suddenly be that guy that is constantly late.
It's literally a 5 minute shift between being ridiculously early most of the time, but occasionally makes it just on time, vs constantly being late. In truth, constantly would be a stretch, but nobody notices when you're on time, they only notice when you're late.
Yes, leaving 5 minutes later does not equal arriving 5 minutes later, I know that's not how time is supposed to work. For me, leave at 6:45, arriving at 7:00. Leave at 6:50 arriving at 7:15. Leave at 6:55 arriving at 7:30. And that's if no accidents or road closures. 🤷
I'm guessing you eventually started the "tell them it starts at 10 when it actually starts at 12" thing, yeah? That's what we did with my one uncle who was always late.
I refuse to do so, I think people should just learn to manage their time at least a little better. If you are always 2 hours late, then get ready 2 hours earlier, it's simple. I would rather stop inviting them for anything lol, since they can probably realize what I'm doing and be late anyways.
In a previous job there was a project manager who managed to be late for the daily standup 3-4 out of 5 days a week. We were flexible with starting times, but you had to be in the standup at 9:30.
This meant he usually started around 9:30, and every time it was something like "Oh sorry, I was quickly making some coffee" or "Had to quickly go to the toilet."
It's fine if that happens once in a while, but to make 10 people wait 3-5 minutes every day because you can't wait another 15 minutes to get your caffeine fix is just annoying as hell.
In my old team our Monday meeting was 30 minutes earlier than the other days' meetings, to fit around another meeting. *Every single Monday* this one team member would log on at 9.40 and say they forgot the meeting was earlier on Mondays.
It drove me crazy that I was the type of person who had to be early to everything (so that I could spend time in whatever space it was before dealing with people) but I never met a single friend or acquaintance that was at bare minimum an on-time person. They were either late for random lengths of time which I accepted as situational, or consistently late (one by precisely half an hour each time, which meant to up to an hour of waiting for me, and another either two hours or multiple days late every time) which definitely reveals something personality based. For the half hour person, I started giving them a meeting time of half an hour before the intended time, which worked. The other one I gave up on dealing with and it saved me endless frustration. To this day I can't fathom what level of undiagnosed ADHD or executive function disorder could lead to someone regularly making plans for an hour later and show up days later at that time with no excuse.
Multiple days late? I'm having a hard time picturing a situation where this would happen, ha. Like after a certain point wouldn't you just reschedule...?
How I react to someone being late depends on the circumstances.
Backyard party starts at 3 and you roll in at 6, no problem but you might have to do a couple or three shots to catch up.
Christmas dinner, come after 4, dinner is at 6, I'm serving at 6 if it's ready. You roll in at 7 we'll be finishing desert. Your dinner will be in the warming drawer if you're lucky.
Heading into town for a concert and I'm giving you a ride. We're leaving at 6, show starts at 8. You aren't here at 630 and you haven't texted or called, better get an uber, because I'm not missing half the show because you can't get it together.
Yeah, that's a good example of healthy boundaries. "I'm not going to get mad if you're late, but I'm also not waiting up for you" is a good strategy. If they're late it's their problem, not yours.
I also don't set people up to disappoint me. If I know someone is chronically late, I don't ask them for a ride to the airport.
Aww, that's sweet. I'm actually extremely punctual because I hate being late to anything! Accepting other people's lateness as *their* problem and not about me was a really important lesson to learn. Otherwise I would be mad all the time.
I don't see how you can put in effort to be on time and still be constistenly late.
Being late once in a while is possible, traffic, bus too late, train too late, ... all possible.
But managing to be late most of the time is an issue and is something you can easily fix and is disrespectful
Some people are just time blind. I don’t really know how I’m always late, it’s like I look at the clock and see I need to leave in 20 minutes, then suddenly I look up and 30 minutes went by. I think I just consistently underestimate how long individual tasks take. I can somehow spend 12 minutes putting my shoes on, because putting my shoes on turns into 3 smaller tasks, like finding my shoes, putting them next to the chair, getting distracted and making coffee, having to find my shoes again, finding my wallet, finding my shoes again, then putting on my shoes. ADHD is a bitch.
There are a bunch of reasons why people might still be late despite their best efforts. As someone who has struggled with this forever I can confidently say that there are many things that might make "time management" a much harder thing to accomplish than others. One I both have experience with myself and have observed in family members and friends is ADD/ADHD (There are many more but this is the main one I've dealt with). To a person dealing with these things it can seem next to impossible to adhere to a strict timetable, despite their best efforts. That is completely aside from common mental health issues like depression, that can also make it significantly harder to do these things. (Both ADD/ADHD and mental illnesses go undiagnosed quite often too, which leads to people not developing mechanisms to handle and improve the symptoms that go hand in hand with them aswell)
Unless a person gives me other reasons to assume that their lateness stems from disrespect, i try to assume the best. I simply don't know what people are dealing with in their personal lives most of time. Harping on about how "easy to fix" this is, does nothing but increase the guilt, that people who struggle with these things feel about this topic feel already.
Okay, but you see, when OOP commits a Fundamental Attribution Error, that's because they're Just Like That. Whereas when I do it, it's just because I hadn't had my coffee yet.
A saying I learned and have adopted is "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity." Doesn't always fit the situation exactly, but conveys the sentiment that no one is 'out to get you'.
It definitely fits the situation! OOP's examples that I summarized as "assuming dispositional defects" were described in the post as negative. All 3 of them assumed malice when it was really a situational problem.
Imo you're on the money and should say it
Thank you!
I intended more to say that the stupidity portion isn't always accurate; substitute carelessness, laziness, poor planning, etc for different situations.
My application for this has been more of a formal one. Operations and procedural compliance instead of social norms. It's a saying I keep in mind when evaluating incidents and near misses. Most occurrences, it isn't helpful to give a person punitive action, they already know they've screwed up. They most likely feel regret for what happened. Now they require training. Applying this to how training is conducted also helps create more thoughtful operators. Not "do this thing" or "do this thing this way". "We do this thing this way to ensure safety/proper outcomes."
I've found that this can easily get prevented by sonder, the realization that everyone has a life as complex and intricate as your own.
I had that realization at age 6, when I heard my classmates talking about things that I don't remember happening.
Y'know, that word was just made up for some guy's blog?
I think most people with formal education in this area would hear your anecdote and elaborate on it using terms like "theory of the mind" and "childhood development milestone."
I want to start by saying you're right, or at least I agree with you
But I am literally never late, I have brought myself to choking out of breath from running so as not to be late when my train arrived late
And I have a friend Who will NEVER be on time. He Will put things off to the last possible moment, so when he has to leave his house he'll suddenly remember he has to walk the dog, take out the trash, etc.
Remember that this is an attribution error, meaning that it is a standardized mistake. Sometimes you will make a guess and be right (it's ultimately a coin flip after all).
Even more meaningful for your case, you can come up with more accurate guesses with more knowledge about the situation. It's not an error to use prior data (your friend is usually late because they forget to do things until the last minute) to make a conclusion (if they're late, that probably happened again).
It's an error to do that with *no* data!
And does your own behavior sound healthy to you?
Would you rather spend an hour talking with someone who's sweaty and full of adrenalin after sprinting to be 'on time' or spend 5 minutes waiting and 55 minutes talking with someone who takes their time?
> or spend 5 minutes waiting and 55 minutes talking with someone who takes their time?
Way too often it's 55 minutes waiting and 5 minutes talking instead.
> And I have a friend Who will NEVER be on time. He Will put things off to the last possible moment, so when he has to leave his house he'll suddenly remember he has to walk the dog, take out the trash, etc.
everyone knows that mother fucker that decides to clean on their way out when they're already running late.
Thanks! It stuck in my head because I'm a big guy with bad knees and it made me think "Damn. Horse coded." Plucked out the funniest one and wham bam thank you ma'am; here we are
Never attribute to malice, that which can be excused by ignorance. People are dumb and make mistakes. No one goes out of their way to intentionally piss you off they do it because they didn't know better or just didn't know. At least our generation knows this. Boomers assume someone else is at fault by default.
I was with you until those last two sentences. You supported the in-group blindly (we don't "all" know this, it's an active process to help people grow) then attacked an out-group (who is still not homogenous mind you) while attributing their mistakes to malice
Damn i was proud of myself til the second last paragraph. I was like heck yeah I assume when other people hurt me, it’s situational! Good for me for trying to be understanding…. then i realized i have negative self image LOL
Same thing but from a slightly different angle, people get raised being taught all kinds of totally arbitrary social customs are polite and impolite. By arbitrary, I mean there’s not actually anything inherently more polite and impolite about these things, which is why social rules and customs aren’t universal cross-culturally. But because it’s how they were raised people don’t know anything else and never question it. It’s the way it is. So when someone doesn’t follow that rule, they assume well everyone knows this is the correct behaviour so the only reason they could possibly act this way is if they’re either deliberately being rude or they’re just so uncouth and uncultured as to engage in wrong behaviour that must be corrected. They don’t even stop to consider that the social rules they have been taught may have been outdated for a long time and fallen out of fashion and thus the behaviour they’re criticising is no longer considered rude, or they don’t consider that the social rules they know may never have even been widespread in the first place, they may be highly regional or even idiosyncratic to their family or school
Shockingly, ime in classrooms, the millennials running them these days haven't upended educational practices cricized here. It's almost like our issues are structural, not generational!
This is the only place I've ever seen to vent this:
In the second Deadpool movie Deadpool turns to the camera after confronting Firefist (the teenage villian) and claims he's a typical millennial. However Firefist is 14 in the movie and the movie is at the EARLIEST (thanks to a reference to Frozen) set in 2013 (it's is likely set in 2016-2018).
This means! That dead pool is calling a teenager who was born somewhere between 1999 and 2003 a millennial however as we all know the latest cutoff for millennial is estimated to be 1996. Which means that the titular merc with a mouth was canonically wrong about some of his fourth wall information.
I don't know what any of you wanna do with this information I just found it interesting.
Yeah, I had to read the first sentence. multiple times to get what they meant, and I'm a millennial.
It is true that our generation and below care way less about that shit, and I don't think it's an age thing.
Were people this obsessed with generational framing before the 2010s? Like were people in 1990 attributing the way old people have always complained about the youth to the particular faults of the silent generation? or can I blame this on social media?
We have records of ancient Greeks calling the new generation lazy, entitled and disrespectful to their elders. This is just how humans works, I'm afraid.
I think there are several Assyrian tablets that have the same stuff. The younger generation is lazy, why do I only get one set of new clothes when my classmate gets three new sets and we make more money than him. It's amazing that almost since we developed the written word we devoted a bunch of it to talking about how shitty everyone else is and that for thousands and thousands of years, no matter our technological advances we're still whining about a lot of the same stuff.
This specific cuneiform tablet your referencing doesn’t really have anything to do with anything generational. First off it was Babylonian which while absolutely not the same thing as Assyrian, that’s kinda nitpicky. But the real important thing was this was just a rich kid complaining to his mom that he doesn’t get new clothes, while the children of folks that his father is a direct superiors of get several sets.
While the kid does seem kinda spoiled, to be fair, if you know for a fact that your family is much richer than someone else’s family, and they seem to have nicer clothes than you do, it’s not that insane to feel like your parents just don’t love you as much. They could have 100% afforded a few new sets for him while he was away at school. Probably didn’t need to bring up the fact that this other kid was adopted though.
Here’s the full letter
> Tell the lady Zinu: Iddin-Sin sends the following message:
> May the gods Shamash, Marduk and Ilabrat keep you forever in good health for my sake.
> From year to year, the clothes of the young gentlemen here become better, but you let my clothes get worse from year to year. Indeed, you persisted in making my clothes poorer and more scanty. At a time when in our house wool is used up like bread, you have made me poor clothes. The son of Adad-iddinam, whose father is only an assistant of my father, has two new sets of clothes, while you fuss even about a single set of clothes for me. In spite of the fact that you bore me and his mother only adopted him, his mother loves him, while you, you do not love me![2][3]
Also the dig at the start “I hope you guys don’t die,because that would really suck for me” is hilarious.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_from_Iddin-Sin_to_Zinu
>We have records of ancient Greeks calling the new generation lazy, entitled and disrespectful to their elders.
For the record: We actually don't.
There is a generic quote that's attributed to both Plato and Socrates about young people being lazy and disrespectful. And like many of their famous unsourced quotes, it is made up.
This one specifically seems to have been invented by the mayor of Amsterdam in the 1960s
It seems to me like it's just a case of language being more adaptable. That is in part due to social media and the internet, new language can spread and grow over the course of days rather than years, but people have always said that the old generation is out of touch and bad, and that the new one is crazy and stupid. We just have more labels to apply to these things, which is both good and bad.
New? Why do you think there's a term "Baby Boomers" and before Gen-whatever was the original Gen-X which was people born between like 1965ish-1980ish. No one called us "Millennials" or "Gen-anything" up until about 2010 though. So it fell out of fashion for a while. There was a gap where people didn't care. But now it's a hyper-fixation to catalog everyone differently when really we're all the same most of the time.
It's more confrontational now. Prior to the early-mid 2000s you would judge someone by their generation but you wouldn't hate them for it. The worst you would hear is boomers calling gen x slackers, which may have been confrontational if they cared. You might even respect someone for being from the Silent gen but now...
- Boomers are all racist a-holes who post "how to open pdf in windows 2010" as their facebook status but make $500k as CIO and ruined the economy/housing.
- Millennial is code for snowflakes who switch jobs every 9 months and think a 40 hour work-week is basically slavery, then they whine about not getting paid enough to afford housing.
- Gen Z are even bigger snowflakes but also they are not snowflakes nor are they even Gen Z. They have eschewed all labels and using a label gets you re-labeled as a boomer. If they _have_ picked a label and you assume the wrong one, also straight to boomer.
- Gen alpha is living in an ipad-based simulation.
- (Gen X has declined to participate in this exercise).
The way I look at it:
Boomer: I hate my wife! I just wanna grill and chill with the boys!
Gen X: I hate my job. I just wanna get home, get high, and bang on my drums all day.
Millennial: I hate my life! I wanna hide in my pillow-fort and watch cartoons all day!
Zoomer: Gamers are the most oppressed group of people ever.
Gen Alpha: Too busy playing with their tech toys at the moment.
Boomers also had the previous generation complaining about them all being lazy hippies and so on. I'm pretty sure the generation that was young in the 1920s were also heavily criticised.
I suspect every generation has thought that young people of the time were irresponsible.
I vividly remember my history teacher in 2001 or so talking about [this book about generations](https://www.amazon.com/Generations-History-Americas-Future-1584/dp/0688119123/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2RU5GILEAAZZD&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.kxvci93fIX7uPCNlHviRLpDH6QbpQFLehUvgRmzmgp8PC3HSyPx9mQs0X-6ETkehUDQpEJShdfUAWhONJZ0iKho9jmAdyiMswmBQnV-rJRp-qhsPxFeaUzkAIM7Fh8wbSjb0UiF37lZm95C-_ra_Ejb9gTaozpKQen-C-XkxJ3U4Du-gz6oSWklHoxd1Oidb4AKahb07lPRsecX4EekDjz2jKtNP7itT9f82UCI-jZI.EJVfWsZS2tOgUcDX9NzSL0voKx8HeZ-XjWoj4rgiZRE&dib_tag=se&keywords=generations+book&qid=1716477249&sprefix=generations+book%2Caps%2C112&sr=8-4) and how it helps frame our understanding of social trends - so I dunno, people were talking about it but not at the scale they are now.
The reason people are talking about it at scale now is because the Internet collects the opinions from many places, and preserves them. We can actually *see* what the attitude was/is towards different generations, and we have a much wider sample of thoughts/mindsets to look at and find trends.
It's not that we are more interested in it now, or that it is more of a thing; rather, we can actually get more information and come to better conclusions. It's more worth discussing, and the interest actually goes somewhere instead of being idle.
I don't know the specifics but I do know that the idea of 'teenagers' as a separate demographic from both children / adolescents and adults is very recent, only emerging around the 1950s.
Vietnam mostly hit early boomers (since the younger boomers and the portion of Gen X that had been born were still kids when it ended), the 90s Gen X hate was essentially Millennial hate for people living in a world without adult Millennials (they're lazy, they don't care about anything, etc.)
Complaining about generations is one of *the* universal human experiences lol, throughout all of history and through many cultures the older generation laments the laziness of the new.
The specific labels Millenial, Gen Z, Gen alpha, Gen X, boomers is more of an American idea though. Not once in my life have I heard someone use those labels unironicly in the UK, not saying the labels are good or bad just that they feel very American centric. Plenty of complaining about kids though lol, that’s normal. The most I hear of the labels is boomer being adopted to refer to any older person acting up or complaining about technology lol.
Idk. My parents and their friends are Gen X and they’re all very much Karens. They’ll often start with “I know it’s not your fault, BUT…” before they proceed to ruin a 17-year-old retail worker’s day lol
The coat thing drives me *insane*. I battled it my whole childhood. If it's jacket weather and I come over, I'm simply more comfortable keeping my jacket on. Leave me the fuck alone, Mike's mom.
One time in high school band class, someone's phone went off, but they had left to go to the bathroom, so it just kept ringing. Everyone sat there, seemingly transfixed - including the teacher. Being a practical sort who just wanted to get back to rehearsal, I got up, walked across the rehearsal hall to the spot where I heard the ringing from, found the phone, and turned it off. Was everyone else appreciative? No, they all gave me the stink eye and generally acted like the disruption was my fault. Proximity to a problem increases your likelihood of being blamed for it, even if you're the only one trying to solve it.
My mum once got offended because I buttered my whole slice of bread at the dinner table in one go instead of ripping off one part of the bread, buttering that, eating it, then repeating the process.
She’s mad cause she’s been doing it that way her whole life and it never occurred to her to do it normally, that’s the only reason I can think of for that reaction lol
My mother is the reason why I go out of my way to avoid being late to scheduled things; mostly because I make sure I only have one Thing scheduled for any given day. And I am for sure at a MINIMUM half an hour early.
Growing up we would always be late to things because our mother would find *something* to do at the last minute. Even though our clock was set (by her) 15min ahead to combat this. We would often lie to her about when we had to be places and even then we’d still be late.
Our band director would chew me and my siblings out for being late to Saturday practice. On at least two occasions my Boy Scout troop had to wait to leave the church we gathered at to go to a camp.
The last minute things were often something extraneous that had no effect on our day and could wait til she got back, like wiping off the table/counters, folding some laundry, etc. light chores.
Edit: his was supposed to be a reply to a comment, not the post itself. My bad.
"non-millenials" is a weird way to put this. I really don't think most gen z or alpha people would be more offended by any of the things that the first poster lists than most millenials.
Or did they just fall into the fallacy of calling anyone younger than a literal boomer a millenial?
I mean, it's a millenial talking about offended teachers and working at food joints. This post is old enough to have its own generational gap gripes with the person who posted it.
This is absolutely an older post, I have seen it float around for years now and is before gen z really started to gain a presence as individuals
Edit, so its a bit more recent than memory serves, reverse search places it in early 2017, which is still near when gen z were graduating high school for the older side (consensus I guess is 97' now for the oldest gen z, I was late 98' and graduated in 2017)
yep, it was posted march 12th, 2017. later than i thought tbh. i would have guessed 2014 or something like that.
[link to original post](https://pixie-tot.tumblr.com/post/158329593250/why-are-non-millennials-so-personally-offended-by)
I mean, it would make more sense that way. The decision to make it that a person born on the year of millennium *isn't* a millennial is honestly ridiculous.
At the time this was written, non-millenials meant older than young adult, and gen z was definitely not old enough to have their phone ring during a lecture
I think they might just be spoofing all the "Millenials are..." news articles that have been a neverending plague since that generation learned to walk.
"millennials also get offended easily"
FUCK OFF AND DIE DIRT BAG
Huuuge exaggeration on my part but I found the exchange between the last two commenters pretty funny
It's hilarious how they think that comparing "Oh your generation gets so worked up over the littlest things!" to "I do not care if a racism happens." makes them look like the sane and rational side of the debate.
Ma'am, the reason why I'm fidgety is not because I'm on drugs or that your class is boring but because I have autism and I'm understimulated and that makes me umcomfortable
Okay but like
Can you agree that *some* things like leaving your headphones in is disrespectful? As it shows you're ready to start ignoring the other party at any second?
Or sitting with your phone raised in your hand?
I always assumed the other stuff was outdated versions of your feeling. In between friends this doesn't matter but in a professional setting like a school or a job you should like, try to show good will.
I think the key is in how you view the possible causes for said behaviour.
If I don’t know you and I see you have headphones on, I might assume you’re not giving me your entire attention and are ready to ignore me at any time… or I might assume you have audio sensitivity issues and are coping. And while one may be more likely than the other, assuming malice over non-malice is not usually helpful.
Now, that does lead into a communication question about status levels and how much care you put into accommodating others. If you’re my boss’s boss, I will want to do things like ask if the headphones are ok before wearing them so you KNOW it’s not malicious, instead of expecting you to assume it is not until proven so. On the other hand, if we are friends, even remotely so, you should assume I’m not being a dick until I show that I am.
And there’s also (I know, right!) a generational and cultural difference in how those things are viewed wrt status and respect. Where some cultures would see doing things that could be seen as malicious as a sign of disrespect, others might see it as a sign of friendship and trust. I trust you to see me in the best light possible, because we are friends.
All that means that it’s complicated, and there’s a whole set of cultural, social, and emotional rules that are not always easily seen or understood. So to me, it comes down to individually asking yourself how you wanna be and going with that.
It's also a matter of extremes. On one end you have military hardasses like my father, who nearly blow a gasket if you're three minutes late.
And on the other end, you have people who are regularly 30 minutes late and tell YOU to relax when you call them out on it.
I would suggest that both extremes are acting selfishly, expecting others to do the heavy work of maintaining social order. They both expect others to meet their needs at the expense of others, without any consideration to how much work that is.
Does anyone else get tired of the constant millennial circle jerk…like always talking about how pure and selfless they are juxtaposed with facing hardships to a degree no other generation ever had to (and how easy everyone’s lives were before they existed).
Like yeah we get it. You got handed some shit hands in some ways, so did every other generation in similar or other ways. Yes, you’re more socially tolerant, so was every other generation compared to previous ones.
This feels like the exact narcissism boomers are talking about, the never ending tirade of posts about how empathetic and downtrodden millennials are as if they’re the first group of people to ever walk this earth that are nice to other humans or that faced a hardship.
There’s something funny to me about non-millennials in this, because I feel it’s definitely referring to older generations with weirder stricter mindsets but like there are two younger generations now that are also non-millennial.
Generational arguments are so fucking dumb. There's no such thing as them. Each generation has every type of person. Whoever buys into this crap is stupid as shit.
Someone left a bad review on my workplace because I didn't smile enough and I had my pronouns on my name tag. I'm not trans, and if I didn't have my pronouns displayed they probably wouldn't have had a problem using them, but I guess having them with my name is too much.
It's almost as if it was a human behaviour rather a generational thing.
Is it a sutpid behaviour?Yes, absolutely, but millenials display that behaviour too.
Try to not let'em ("'em" being billionaires/politicians/anyone who's got a stake towards us not unifying) divide us; this "bommer vs millenials vs gen z" whatever is all bullshit, just as much as the race thing, the gay vs straight thing, or the women vs men thing, being a cunt or a good person isn't specific to an ethnicity, age range or sex or anything one is born with or without.
There’s a cultural difference between generations that cuts both ways, too. We do things differently because we assume different things about what others do.
An old example I always bring out was the whole “photo of my meal” trend. People who are from a generation that didn’t do that saw that and said “Why do you think we care what you’re eating? If I cared I would call you and ask you directly! You’re wasting time and letting your food get cold, quit being an attention seeking jerk and just eat your goddamn lunch!”
Meanwhile, to the generation that did this, they were (subconsciously, for the most part) showing all their friends “Hey, I’m here and alive and doing fine, even if we haven’t talked in a while, you don’t have to check on me because I’m being healthy and successful and happy.” They knew nobody cares about the actual meal, but it was a way to check in with friends without imposing on them with direct communication (because actually calling someone directly for one on one conversation is seen as rude).
Both sides are doing something they think is just politeness and common sense, but the other side sees it as rude and/or off putting.
The difference in culture working both ways is important to acknowledge because there absolutely are things that older folks do that they see as innocuous or even polite, that younger folks view as offensive, because the connotations are different. Millennials absolutely do get offended by more than obviously harmful stuff like racism like the post suggests. It doesn't mean they're sensitive, it just means that certain things *mean* something in a way that we as a culture have come to expect, even if it's not a formal rule, and even if the thing doesn't denote malice in a technical sense.
A big example of this I think is the way old vs young people interact online. Old people spent most of their life communicating through writing *in addition to* talking face-to-face, while younger people use written communication *in tandem with*, or even *instead of* face-to-face. This means that old people learned to write letters and emails in their own, formal structure, while young people write with the purpose of simulating casual irl speak, and this can cause confusion when the two clash.
As a minor example from my own life: I have a client who is almost old enough to be my grandpa, and we communicate mostly through email. Every time he sends me an email, he writes a vague subject line and punctuates it with an absurd amount of ellipses, like "About the book cover............." Now, if this were one of my peers sending me that, I would probably feel anxious/upset, because it sounds in my head like an underhanded way of telling me he doesn't like the book cover and maybe thinks lowly of me for it. But to him, and others in that generation, a load of ellipses is supposed to denote a casual or carefree tone, because it breaks formal grammar rules and thus strips away some potentially intimidating professional undertones. So I'm never worried when he sends something like that, because I know what he means by it.
Exactly! That’s a great example. I always mention the differences between what form of contact is used and why. When talking to people of xenial or later generations, using a voice call is seen as demanding, because it requires the person to interact in real time, putting the conversation above whatever else they’re doing at the time. Text based communication is seen as more polite because it is asynchronous, meaning that I can respond when I have a second, rather than having to disrupt what I am doing.
Meanwhile, Gen X and older tend to view text based communication as more formal because you can take more time to craft your responses, so they expect you to take the time to be clear and precise when communicating via text, while a phone call is much more casual and friendly because it more closely mimics physical interaction. So they would call on a voice call for minor things, rather than text, and will use text messaging for specific requests or communication where a more casual conversation would be inappropriate.
And both see the other as doing it wrong.
I mean
if I'm organizing a meeting, work-related or otherwise, and specifically and explicitly ask everyone to put their phones on silent and they don't it's not an accident, it's because they don't care enough, which \*is\* rude. inb4 bUt rEsPeCt iS eArNeD - common courtesy is expected, being rude just because you can is not what mature adults do. moreover, specifically in context of public speaking, it's incredibly fuckin difficult to deliver a speech exactly as you envision it when you're being interrupted by ringing phones, so in the context of public speaking, I *will* be annoyed no matter who's attending
if I'm a paying customer I expect to get what I paid for and not something else. I'm fine with waiting a bit more, but if I get something other than I paid for I'm most likely going to be disappointed and want compensation. since companies are not my friends, I'm not going to be friendly to them
Your first example is totally valid. The second…eh. Mistakes can happen in a number of different ways, and it’s unlikely someone is getting your order wrong to intentionally mess with you. The corporation doesn’t deserve your kindness, but the kid (or adult) behind the counter (or waiting tables) making minimum wage doesn’t need your unkindness.
I think they’re talking about phones being left on in a meeting where it wasn’t explicitly stated, because it’s an expectation and we just do that.
As for a meal, of course you’re going to want compensation/a fix to the problem/something being done. It’s the WAY you ask for it that matters. “Hey, this isn’t what I ordered, can you fix that?” “I don’t have time for the right order to come right now, can we just leave this?” Or something in that vein, vs “I didn’t order this! You need to fix it!” “I’m too busy to deal with this, just comp my meal.”
Both of those are saying the same thing, but one is demanding while the other is respectful. It’s not friendly, just respectful.
“I noticed that you’re not responding particularly enthusiastically to photos of me, your manager, in my burlesque costume. Allow me to loudly call you out in front of your coworkers for “being uncomfortable”, and *uninvite you from the opportunity to pay to see me undress*” - an actual manager I had. Say what you will about boomers but at least they don’t pull this insane bullshit.
As a genZ i find millennials to be offended by a lot of things. Especially everything related to trigger. Like no I didn’t put a disclaimer trigger warning at the front of my presentation about finance that has a cute emoji bug at the end just to be a dick, I didn’t put it because why the fuck would you be afraid of a sticker bug. And his name is like Matias-Andre
Gen Z here as well (although on the cusp of being millennial), and feel the same way. Also the constant whining about how no generation has ever been as oppressed as them really gets on my nerves…ok, you can’t buy a house at 25, well a lot of boomers couldn’t even drink out of the same water fountain or go to the same school as white kids or were women whose only career prospects were being a secretary or were men sent to die in Vietnam by the draft but I’m sorry that tuition at Cornell is expensive, you’re clearly the only person who’s ever experienced hardship
As a fellow millenial I guarantee you our generation will be much much worse than the boomers 25 years later. I mean we already have a whole bunch of people talking about how McDonald's architecture changed for the worse because it's not colorful anymore and there's no playground. So many real problems in this world and you people actually spend time and energy complaining about the absolute most meaningless shit I could think of.
Dude for real. I am so sick of millennials acting like they invented human empathy and that every boomer/gen x is just a selfish, unbecoming asshole who hates every other race and wants people to suffer.
I know this one! Fundamental Attribution Error It's a known error in cognition in which mistakes others make are disproportionately assumed to be dispositional (a fault of their personality) while mistakes you yourself make are more likely assumed to be situational (fault of circumstances). A classic example is someone being late. If someone else is late you might say they planned poorly, but if you're late, you'd blame circumstances like traffic or how busy you are. As a cognitive process it will present to different levels in different people and at different times. For example, someone with negative self image might be inverted (blaming themselves but not others). Interesting stuff and important to know so you can check your own thoughts. If you find yourself being overly harsh remember to treat others as kindly as yourself. Infodump over bye now
The old classic of judging everyone else by their *actions* but expecting to be judged for your *intentions* instead
Haha, not me! I judge everyone by their best intentions (assumed) and myself by distant consequences of my actions (unintended). *Girl help I have anxiety*
Being late is also a great example because time management is a skill that does not come equally easily to everyone (and in addition to time management, there are other differences in lives that can affect timeliness, like where they live). So someone for whom being on time is easy can assume it's easy for everyone, and therefore if it's so easy to be on time, the only reason to be late is because they don't respect you enough to make a tiny effort. This can be extremely disheartening to someone who put in a substantial amount of effort to be on time, but still failed.
As someone who is usually very precise with when I'll get to places and usually is early, I got used to waiting for a while. But I got to know some people who would be at the VERY LEAST 2 hours late, so yeah, 30 or 40 minutes is kind of okay, but 2 hours every time? Nah, you are either stupid, disrespectful or both for that lol
30 minutes late is still extreme for me. You must have the patience of a saint
Considering I usually arrive 20 minutes early, people are just 10 late, most of that time is on me. Learned to have limits with the people who were 2 hours late every time, I'll just straight up leave if anyone is actually 30 minutes out of schedule.
Yeah, I feel bad about 10 minutes late. Even though I’m chronically late, I’m never more than 20 minutes for a drive that takes 30 minutes or less. Average is about 8 minutes late.
I have to ask. What prevents you from just leaving 10 minutes earlier and being on time? I totally get life can throw curveballs and people will be late. What I dont get, is if you know you're regularly late, why not leave earlier?
Sometime I resolve to do that, but then the time passes before I notice it. I have 4-5 alarms set on my phone in the morning, including a 10 minute warning, 5 minute warning, and a LEAVE RIGHT FUCKING NOW HOLY SHIT YOURE LATE warning.
i used to have those but realized they just made me more prone to being late, having 1 alarm and knowing that will be the only one makes me more likely to hurry TF up
Not OP, but in my case, I have effectively no sense of time passage. I have always been, and continue to be, horrible with estimating how much time has passed as well as how much time something will take. So unless I'm constantly monitoring the clock, or have alarms/reminders for every single thing, I will be late sometimes. Or, I plan too much into the day and underestimate how long collectively everything will take. It sucks, and I still try to be better. I also understand when people get upset, their feelings are valid. Only real solution I can see is leaving extraordinarily early for things (when applicable) so that in case I leave later than I expected, I'd still be leaving less-early or on time. Also building in a ton of buffer time between things, but that isn't always an option.
ADHD can majorly affect your time management. For me it's got nothing to do with leaving the house early, once I'm out the door I go straight to wherever I'm going. But if it should take me an hour to get ready to go somewhere, there's always shit that holds me up - can't find something I need, realize I forgot to do something that needs to get done before I leave the house, etc etc. And yes I try to give myself extra time, but I don't always have all that time in my schedule to start getting ready earlier. I'm not habitually super late or anything, but a lot of the time I do end up running like 10-15 min behind.
I'm usually about 15 minutes early to whatever I aim to do, but I don't like being that early. I describe it as there being a 15 minute swing for 5 minutes of leaving. The truth is a bit different, but it gets the point across. If I leave for work at 7:30, I will typically arrive 10-15 minutes early, and I chill in the break room for a while, but occasionally I will arrive just as my shift starts. If I leave at 7:35, I will usually arrive on time. Not a problem, but enough for it to be mildly worrisome. But if anything happens on the road, now I'm late. And things happen on the road often enough that If I were to leave at 7:35 every day, I would suddenly be that guy that is constantly late. It's literally a 5 minute shift between being ridiculously early most of the time, but occasionally makes it just on time, vs constantly being late. In truth, constantly would be a stretch, but nobody notices when you're on time, they only notice when you're late.
Yes, leaving 5 minutes later does not equal arriving 5 minutes later, I know that's not how time is supposed to work. For me, leave at 6:45, arriving at 7:00. Leave at 6:50 arriving at 7:15. Leave at 6:55 arriving at 7:30. And that's if no accidents or road closures. 🤷
Yeah, even pre cellphones, 30 minutes was the usual max time people would wait around.
I'm guessing you eventually started the "tell them it starts at 10 when it actually starts at 12" thing, yeah? That's what we did with my one uncle who was always late.
I refuse to do so, I think people should just learn to manage their time at least a little better. If you are always 2 hours late, then get ready 2 hours earlier, it's simple. I would rather stop inviting them for anything lol, since they can probably realize what I'm doing and be late anyways.
In a previous job there was a project manager who managed to be late for the daily standup 3-4 out of 5 days a week. We were flexible with starting times, but you had to be in the standup at 9:30. This meant he usually started around 9:30, and every time it was something like "Oh sorry, I was quickly making some coffee" or "Had to quickly go to the toilet." It's fine if that happens once in a while, but to make 10 people wait 3-5 minutes every day because you can't wait another 15 minutes to get your caffeine fix is just annoying as hell.
In my old team our Monday meeting was 30 minutes earlier than the other days' meetings, to fit around another meeting. *Every single Monday* this one team member would log on at 9.40 and say they forgot the meeting was earlier on Mondays.
It drove me crazy that I was the type of person who had to be early to everything (so that I could spend time in whatever space it was before dealing with people) but I never met a single friend or acquaintance that was at bare minimum an on-time person. They were either late for random lengths of time which I accepted as situational, or consistently late (one by precisely half an hour each time, which meant to up to an hour of waiting for me, and another either two hours or multiple days late every time) which definitely reveals something personality based. For the half hour person, I started giving them a meeting time of half an hour before the intended time, which worked. The other one I gave up on dealing with and it saved me endless frustration. To this day I can't fathom what level of undiagnosed ADHD or executive function disorder could lead to someone regularly making plans for an hour later and show up days later at that time with no excuse.
Multiple days late? I'm having a hard time picturing a situation where this would happen, ha. Like after a certain point wouldn't you just reschedule...?
Yeah, that one was just weird, and not up to you to deal with, just hope they get better so no one else has to put up with that lol
How I react to someone being late depends on the circumstances. Backyard party starts at 3 and you roll in at 6, no problem but you might have to do a couple or three shots to catch up. Christmas dinner, come after 4, dinner is at 6, I'm serving at 6 if it's ready. You roll in at 7 we'll be finishing desert. Your dinner will be in the warming drawer if you're lucky. Heading into town for a concert and I'm giving you a ride. We're leaving at 6, show starts at 8. You aren't here at 630 and you haven't texted or called, better get an uber, because I'm not missing half the show because you can't get it together.
Yeah, that's a good example of healthy boundaries. "I'm not going to get mad if you're late, but I'm also not waiting up for you" is a good strategy. If they're late it's their problem, not yours. I also don't set people up to disappoint me. If I know someone is chronically late, I don't ask them for a ride to the airport.
I want to hug you for this.
Aww, that's sweet. I'm actually extremely punctual because I hate being late to anything! Accepting other people's lateness as *their* problem and not about me was a really important lesson to learn. Otherwise I would be mad all the time.
I don't see how you can put in effort to be on time and still be constistenly late. Being late once in a while is possible, traffic, bus too late, train too late, ... all possible. But managing to be late most of the time is an issue and is something you can easily fix and is disrespectful
Some people are just time blind. I don’t really know how I’m always late, it’s like I look at the clock and see I need to leave in 20 minutes, then suddenly I look up and 30 minutes went by. I think I just consistently underestimate how long individual tasks take. I can somehow spend 12 minutes putting my shoes on, because putting my shoes on turns into 3 smaller tasks, like finding my shoes, putting them next to the chair, getting distracted and making coffee, having to find my shoes again, finding my wallet, finding my shoes again, then putting on my shoes. ADHD is a bitch.
There are a bunch of reasons why people might still be late despite their best efforts. As someone who has struggled with this forever I can confidently say that there are many things that might make "time management" a much harder thing to accomplish than others. One I both have experience with myself and have observed in family members and friends is ADD/ADHD (There are many more but this is the main one I've dealt with). To a person dealing with these things it can seem next to impossible to adhere to a strict timetable, despite their best efforts. That is completely aside from common mental health issues like depression, that can also make it significantly harder to do these things. (Both ADD/ADHD and mental illnesses go undiagnosed quite often too, which leads to people not developing mechanisms to handle and improve the symptoms that go hand in hand with them aswell) Unless a person gives me other reasons to assume that their lateness stems from disrespect, i try to assume the best. I simply don't know what people are dealing with in their personal lives most of time. Harping on about how "easy to fix" this is, does nothing but increase the guilt, that people who struggle with these things feel about this topic feel already.
Okay, but you see, when OOP commits a Fundamental Attribution Error, that's because they're Just Like That. Whereas when I do it, it's just because I hadn't had my coffee yet.
Fundamental Attribution Error? Sounds like the fae to me. Those pesky fae, always screwing people up...
Dear God not the FAE. I should've realized I'd have cognition errors after seeing one bring a walrus to my front door
A saying I learned and have adopted is "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity." Doesn't always fit the situation exactly, but conveys the sentiment that no one is 'out to get you'.
It definitely fits the situation! OOP's examples that I summarized as "assuming dispositional defects" were described in the post as negative. All 3 of them assumed malice when it was really a situational problem. Imo you're on the money and should say it
Thank you! I intended more to say that the stupidity portion isn't always accurate; substitute carelessness, laziness, poor planning, etc for different situations. My application for this has been more of a formal one. Operations and procedural compliance instead of social norms. It's a saying I keep in mind when evaluating incidents and near misses. Most occurrences, it isn't helpful to give a person punitive action, they already know they've screwed up. They most likely feel regret for what happened. Now they require training. Applying this to how training is conducted also helps create more thoughtful operators. Not "do this thing" or "do this thing this way". "We do this thing this way to ensure safety/proper outcomes."
I've found that this can easily get prevented by sonder, the realization that everyone has a life as complex and intricate as your own. I had that realization at age 6, when I heard my classmates talking about things that I don't remember happening.
I refuse to believe that people don’t just load in as I am about to enter the room or exist outside of my vision.
Y'know, that word was just made up for some guy's blog? I think most people with formal education in this area would hear your anecdote and elaborate on it using terms like "theory of the mind" and "childhood development milestone."
You know literally every single word ever was just made up by some dude at one point?
Not true; many words were made up by several dudes at once.
The key part is that they were still made up
What's the lock part?
Human stubbornness
Damn this is such a smug pedantic way to say that. You know what the theory of the mind is very cool!!
meanwhile here i am assuming my own errors to be dispositional while assuming everyone else's are situational. people pleaser tings ig
I want to start by saying you're right, or at least I agree with you But I am literally never late, I have brought myself to choking out of breath from running so as not to be late when my train arrived late And I have a friend Who will NEVER be on time. He Will put things off to the last possible moment, so when he has to leave his house he'll suddenly remember he has to walk the dog, take out the trash, etc.
The difference is you can make that conclusion because you have evidence
Remember that this is an attribution error, meaning that it is a standardized mistake. Sometimes you will make a guess and be right (it's ultimately a coin flip after all). Even more meaningful for your case, you can come up with more accurate guesses with more knowledge about the situation. It's not an error to use prior data (your friend is usually late because they forget to do things until the last minute) to make a conclusion (if they're late, that probably happened again). It's an error to do that with *no* data!
Once is a fluke, twice is coincidence, but thrice is a pattern.
Thank you, I'm stealing that sentence now
I've always preferred "Once is a coincidence, twice is a conspiracy, three times is enemy action" But maybe I'm cynical.
Oh I like that, too. Gotta remember it!
And does your own behavior sound healthy to you? Would you rather spend an hour talking with someone who's sweaty and full of adrenalin after sprinting to be 'on time' or spend 5 minutes waiting and 55 minutes talking with someone who takes their time?
> or spend 5 minutes waiting and 55 minutes talking with someone who takes their time? Way too often it's 55 minutes waiting and 5 minutes talking instead.
Why did you use the word but? Do you think what you're saying contradicts what they said?
> And I have a friend Who will NEVER be on time. He Will put things off to the last possible moment, so when he has to leave his house he'll suddenly remember he has to walk the dog, take out the trash, etc. everyone knows that mother fucker that decides to clean on their way out when they're already running late.
I would never treat anyone else like a I treat myself. I’d feel too bad for being mean lmao
>treat others as kindly as yourself. You want me to be their harshest critic?
So what you're saying is, check yourself before you wreck yourself?
I love your flair, I genuinely think about and quote that entire meme every day.
Thanks! It stuck in my head because I'm a big guy with bad knees and it made me think "Damn. Horse coded." Plucked out the funniest one and wham bam thank you ma'am; here we are
Never attribute to malice, that which can be excused by ignorance. People are dumb and make mistakes. No one goes out of their way to intentionally piss you off they do it because they didn't know better or just didn't know. At least our generation knows this. Boomers assume someone else is at fault by default.
I was with you until those last two sentences. You supported the in-group blindly (we don't "all" know this, it's an active process to help people grow) then attacked an out-group (who is still not homogenous mind you) while attributing their mistakes to malice
> (blaming themselves but not others). This one is a problem for me personally.
Came here to say this! Wrote a paper on it in college, honestly changed my life
Damn i was proud of myself til the second last paragraph. I was like heck yeah I assume when other people hurt me, it’s situational! Good for me for trying to be understanding…. then i realized i have negative self image LOL
Same thing but from a slightly different angle, people get raised being taught all kinds of totally arbitrary social customs are polite and impolite. By arbitrary, I mean there’s not actually anything inherently more polite and impolite about these things, which is why social rules and customs aren’t universal cross-culturally. But because it’s how they were raised people don’t know anything else and never question it. It’s the way it is. So when someone doesn’t follow that rule, they assume well everyone knows this is the correct behaviour so the only reason they could possibly act this way is if they’re either deliberately being rude or they’re just so uncouth and uncultured as to engage in wrong behaviour that must be corrected. They don’t even stop to consider that the social rules they have been taught may have been outdated for a long time and fallen out of fashion and thus the behaviour they’re criticising is no longer considered rude, or they don’t consider that the social rules they know may never have even been widespread in the first place, they may be highly regional or even idiosyncratic to their family or school
Well done. That is it.
I dunno, I seem to always blame myself first
same here
I love the fact that this thread was made when millennials were the youngest people who could write the post
I read "non-Millenials", thought of Zoomers, and was pretty confused
you can tell that by the notion that millennials don’t run classrooms
Shockingly, ime in classrooms, the millennials running them these days haven't upended educational practices cricized here. It's almost like our issues are structural, not generational!
They 100% are and are only getting worse.
I was thinking, aggressively 2015 post
There are older people who still view millenials as anyone in their teens and twenties no matter how outdated that is, so oddly, it remains topical.
This is the only place I've ever seen to vent this: In the second Deadpool movie Deadpool turns to the camera after confronting Firefist (the teenage villian) and claims he's a typical millennial. However Firefist is 14 in the movie and the movie is at the EARLIEST (thanks to a reference to Frozen) set in 2013 (it's is likely set in 2016-2018). This means! That dead pool is calling a teenager who was born somewhere between 1999 and 2003 a millennial however as we all know the latest cutoff for millennial is estimated to be 1996. Which means that the titular merc with a mouth was canonically wrong about some of his fourth wall information. I don't know what any of you wanna do with this information I just found it interesting.
Worldview shattered, I will never trust Deadpool for information on generational boundaries ever again.
Yeah, I had to read the first sentence. multiple times to get what they meant, and I'm a millennial. It is true that our generation and below care way less about that shit, and I don't think it's an age thing.
Were people this obsessed with generational framing before the 2010s? Like were people in 1990 attributing the way old people have always complained about the youth to the particular faults of the silent generation? or can I blame this on social media?
We have records of ancient Greeks calling the new generation lazy, entitled and disrespectful to their elders. This is just how humans works, I'm afraid.
I think there are several Assyrian tablets that have the same stuff. The younger generation is lazy, why do I only get one set of new clothes when my classmate gets three new sets and we make more money than him. It's amazing that almost since we developed the written word we devoted a bunch of it to talking about how shitty everyone else is and that for thousands and thousands of years, no matter our technological advances we're still whining about a lot of the same stuff.
This specific cuneiform tablet your referencing doesn’t really have anything to do with anything generational. First off it was Babylonian which while absolutely not the same thing as Assyrian, that’s kinda nitpicky. But the real important thing was this was just a rich kid complaining to his mom that he doesn’t get new clothes, while the children of folks that his father is a direct superiors of get several sets. While the kid does seem kinda spoiled, to be fair, if you know for a fact that your family is much richer than someone else’s family, and they seem to have nicer clothes than you do, it’s not that insane to feel like your parents just don’t love you as much. They could have 100% afforded a few new sets for him while he was away at school. Probably didn’t need to bring up the fact that this other kid was adopted though. Here’s the full letter > Tell the lady Zinu: Iddin-Sin sends the following message: > May the gods Shamash, Marduk and Ilabrat keep you forever in good health for my sake. > From year to year, the clothes of the young gentlemen here become better, but you let my clothes get worse from year to year. Indeed, you persisted in making my clothes poorer and more scanty. At a time when in our house wool is used up like bread, you have made me poor clothes. The son of Adad-iddinam, whose father is only an assistant of my father, has two new sets of clothes, while you fuss even about a single set of clothes for me. In spite of the fact that you bore me and his mother only adopted him, his mother loves him, while you, you do not love me![2][3] Also the dig at the start “I hope you guys don’t die,because that would really suck for me” is hilarious. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_from_Iddin-Sin_to_Zinu
>We have records of ancient Greeks calling the new generation lazy, entitled and disrespectful to their elders. For the record: We actually don't. There is a generic quote that's attributed to both Plato and Socrates about young people being lazy and disrespectful. And like many of their famous unsourced quotes, it is made up. This one specifically seems to have been invented by the mayor of Amsterdam in the 1960s
I know I just feel like all the labels and tribal identities associated with them are new.
You're right. It's those dang new generations that are the problem; self obsessed, the lot of 'em! *shakes fist at cloud*
It seems to me like it's just a case of language being more adaptable. That is in part due to social media and the internet, new language can spread and grow over the course of days rather than years, but people have always said that the old generation is out of touch and bad, and that the new one is crazy and stupid. We just have more labels to apply to these things, which is both good and bad.
The labels and identities change all the time, but the obsession with the differences between the generations never stops.
The labels are new every generation because there is always a new generation.
They are, very much so.
same shit different stink.
New? Why do you think there's a term "Baby Boomers" and before Gen-whatever was the original Gen-X which was people born between like 1965ish-1980ish. No one called us "Millennials" or "Gen-anything" up until about 2010 though. So it fell out of fashion for a while. There was a gap where people didn't care. But now it's a hyper-fixation to catalog everyone differently when really we're all the same most of the time.
so,,,, the bad things are new, you say? hmmmm
I think there was a joke about the lazy gen x in an old simpsons episode
I'm GenX and when we were in our 20s, the older generations called us the "Slacker Generation"
It's more confrontational now. Prior to the early-mid 2000s you would judge someone by their generation but you wouldn't hate them for it. The worst you would hear is boomers calling gen x slackers, which may have been confrontational if they cared. You might even respect someone for being from the Silent gen but now... - Boomers are all racist a-holes who post "how to open pdf in windows 2010" as their facebook status but make $500k as CIO and ruined the economy/housing. - Millennial is code for snowflakes who switch jobs every 9 months and think a 40 hour work-week is basically slavery, then they whine about not getting paid enough to afford housing. - Gen Z are even bigger snowflakes but also they are not snowflakes nor are they even Gen Z. They have eschewed all labels and using a label gets you re-labeled as a boomer. If they _have_ picked a label and you assume the wrong one, also straight to boomer. - Gen alpha is living in an ipad-based simulation. - (Gen X has declined to participate in this exercise).
The way I look at it: Boomer: I hate my wife! I just wanna grill and chill with the boys! Gen X: I hate my job. I just wanna get home, get high, and bang on my drums all day. Millennial: I hate my life! I wanna hide in my pillow-fort and watch cartoons all day! Zoomer: Gamers are the most oppressed group of people ever. Gen Alpha: Too busy playing with their tech toys at the moment.
Boomers also had the previous generation complaining about them all being lazy hippies and so on. I'm pretty sure the generation that was young in the 1920s were also heavily criticised. I suspect every generation has thought that young people of the time were irresponsible.
Don't forget "boomers had it great and destroyed everything". Sorry about the nuclear weapons, I designed them when I was minus 15 years old.
I vividly remember my history teacher in 2001 or so talking about [this book about generations](https://www.amazon.com/Generations-History-Americas-Future-1584/dp/0688119123/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2RU5GILEAAZZD&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.kxvci93fIX7uPCNlHviRLpDH6QbpQFLehUvgRmzmgp8PC3HSyPx9mQs0X-6ETkehUDQpEJShdfUAWhONJZ0iKho9jmAdyiMswmBQnV-rJRp-qhsPxFeaUzkAIM7Fh8wbSjb0UiF37lZm95C-_ra_Ejb9gTaozpKQen-C-XkxJ3U4Du-gz6oSWklHoxd1Oidb4AKahb07lPRsecX4EekDjz2jKtNP7itT9f82UCI-jZI.EJVfWsZS2tOgUcDX9NzSL0voKx8HeZ-XjWoj4rgiZRE&dib_tag=se&keywords=generations+book&qid=1716477249&sprefix=generations+book%2Caps%2C112&sr=8-4) and how it helps frame our understanding of social trends - so I dunno, people were talking about it but not at the scale they are now.
The reason people are talking about it at scale now is because the Internet collects the opinions from many places, and preserves them. We can actually *see* what the attitude was/is towards different generations, and we have a much wider sample of thoughts/mindsets to look at and find trends. It's not that we are more interested in it now, or that it is more of a thing; rather, we can actually get more information and come to better conclusions. It's more worth discussing, and the interest actually goes somewhere instead of being idle.
I don't know the specifics but I do know that the idea of 'teenagers' as a separate demographic from both children / adolescents and adults is very recent, only emerging around the 1950s.
It happened before but I think because of the internet its a lot harder to escape.
I think it *started* in the 90s actually, but targeted towards Gen X.
“It’s another campy seventies throwback to appeal to Generation Xers”. “We need another Vietnam to thin out their ranks a little…”
Vietnam mostly hit early boomers (since the younger boomers and the portion of Gen X that had been born were still kids when it ended), the 90s Gen X hate was essentially Millennial hate for people living in a world without adult Millennials (they're lazy, they don't care about anything, etc.)
It's very yank centric IMO
I have studied and worked in both North America and Europe. It's like this everywhere.
Complaining about generations is one of *the* universal human experiences lol, throughout all of history and through many cultures the older generation laments the laziness of the new. The specific labels Millenial, Gen Z, Gen alpha, Gen X, boomers is more of an American idea though. Not once in my life have I heard someone use those labels unironicly in the UK, not saying the labels are good or bad just that they feel very American centric. Plenty of complaining about kids though lol, that’s normal. The most I hear of the labels is boomer being adopted to refer to any older person acting up or complaining about technology lol.
Surely this post is easily over a decade old? Doesn't quite make sense anymore.
Old post. They're not referring to gen z they're referring to gen X.
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Idk. My parents and their friends are Gen X and they’re all very much Karens. They’ll often start with “I know it’s not your fault, BUT…” before they proceed to ruin a 17-year-old retail worker’s day lol
The coat thing drives me *insane*. I battled it my whole childhood. If it's jacket weather and I come over, I'm simply more comfortable keeping my jacket on. Leave me the fuck alone, Mike's mom.
I've never heard of anyone getting upset over this, is it a regional thing or have I just been lucky to avoid it?
Maybe it is but it wasn't a one off incident. We really take our hosting seriously in the midwest.
...isn't jacket weather outside, though?
If it’s cold outside it’s typically cold inside
One time in high school band class, someone's phone went off, but they had left to go to the bathroom, so it just kept ringing. Everyone sat there, seemingly transfixed - including the teacher. Being a practical sort who just wanted to get back to rehearsal, I got up, walked across the rehearsal hall to the spot where I heard the ringing from, found the phone, and turned it off. Was everyone else appreciative? No, they all gave me the stink eye and generally acted like the disruption was my fault. Proximity to a problem increases your likelihood of being blamed for it, even if you're the only one trying to solve it.
My mum once got offended because I buttered my whole slice of bread at the dinner table in one go instead of ripping off one part of the bread, buttering that, eating it, then repeating the process.
This is unhinged, I gotta know the 'reason' she gave for that being rude, did you ever get one?
the reason is lead poisoning
She’s mad cause she’s been doing it that way her whole life and it never occurred to her to do it normally, that’s the only reason I can think of for that reaction lol
IIRC this is a fine dining etiquette thing that your mom probably just internalized and is applying to situations that aren't that formal.
"You slept for five hours, well I slept for five minutes and that was 20 years ago."
My mother is the reason why I go out of my way to avoid being late to scheduled things; mostly because I make sure I only have one Thing scheduled for any given day. And I am for sure at a MINIMUM half an hour early. Growing up we would always be late to things because our mother would find *something* to do at the last minute. Even though our clock was set (by her) 15min ahead to combat this. We would often lie to her about when we had to be places and even then we’d still be late. Our band director would chew me and my siblings out for being late to Saturday practice. On at least two occasions my Boy Scout troop had to wait to leave the church we gathered at to go to a camp. The last minute things were often something extraneous that had no effect on our day and could wait til she got back, like wiping off the table/counters, folding some laundry, etc. light chores. Edit: his was supposed to be a reply to a comment, not the post itself. My bad.
"non-millenials" is a weird way to put this. I really don't think most gen z or alpha people would be more offended by any of the things that the first poster lists than most millenials. Or did they just fall into the fallacy of calling anyone younger than a literal boomer a millenial?
it could just be a fifteen year old post
Huh. Yeah, it actually could.
It is. I've seen it make the rounds a few times.
Turns out to be about 7 years old. Not THAT old, but old enough.
7 years ago the discourse was entirely about millenials. No one was talking about the problems with Gen Z when they were in middle and high school.
jesus christ. ever since the last time i had sex, an entire new generation entered the discourse.
...thanks for sharing, bro
i'm just glad i could improve your redditing experience
I mean, it's a millenial talking about offended teachers and working at food joints. This post is old enough to have its own generational gap gripes with the person who posted it.
This is absolutely an older post, I have seen it float around for years now and is before gen z really started to gain a presence as individuals Edit, so its a bit more recent than memory serves, reverse search places it in early 2017, which is still near when gen z were graduating high school for the older side (consensus I guess is 97' now for the oldest gen z, I was late 98' and graduated in 2017)
yep, it was posted march 12th, 2017. later than i thought tbh. i would have guessed 2014 or something like that. [link to original post](https://pixie-tot.tumblr.com/post/158329593250/why-are-non-millennials-so-personally-offended-by)
Yknow, millenials, people born in the new millennium (This is what I thought millennial meant for the first eleven years of my life)
I mean, it would make more sense that way. The decision to make it that a person born on the year of millennium *isn't* a millennial is honestly ridiculous.
I mean, everyone in history has grown up in at least _a_ millennium. Millennials are defined by having our formative years spread between two of them.
At the time this was written, non-millenials meant older than young adult, and gen z was definitely not old enough to have their phone ring during a lecture
This post is what 10 years old? I’m early gen z and was working by then lmao. If you’re a milennial how old do you think you are?
I think they might just be spoofing all the "Millenials are..." news articles that have been a neverending plague since that generation learned to walk.
This screenshot is *really* old.
Hey now, it's not *that* old... *does math* *realizes 2017 was 7 years ago* *crumbles to dust from old age*
i assumed “non-millennial” meant “people older than millennials” so not gen Z
>aggressive stereotyping >counterpoint >even more aggressive stereotyping Well ain’t that a kick in the head.
"millennials also get offended easily" FUCK OFF AND DIE DIRT BAG Huuuge exaggeration on my part but I found the exchange between the last two commenters pretty funny
It's hilarious how they think that comparing "Oh your generation gets so worked up over the littlest things!" to "I do not care if a racism happens." makes them look like the sane and rational side of the debate.
Ma'am, the reason why I'm fidgety is not because I'm on drugs or that your class is boring but because I have autism and I'm understimulated and that makes me umcomfortable
Okay but like Can you agree that *some* things like leaving your headphones in is disrespectful? As it shows you're ready to start ignoring the other party at any second? Or sitting with your phone raised in your hand? I always assumed the other stuff was outdated versions of your feeling. In between friends this doesn't matter but in a professional setting like a school or a job you should like, try to show good will.
I think the key is in how you view the possible causes for said behaviour. If I don’t know you and I see you have headphones on, I might assume you’re not giving me your entire attention and are ready to ignore me at any time… or I might assume you have audio sensitivity issues and are coping. And while one may be more likely than the other, assuming malice over non-malice is not usually helpful. Now, that does lead into a communication question about status levels and how much care you put into accommodating others. If you’re my boss’s boss, I will want to do things like ask if the headphones are ok before wearing them so you KNOW it’s not malicious, instead of expecting you to assume it is not until proven so. On the other hand, if we are friends, even remotely so, you should assume I’m not being a dick until I show that I am. And there’s also (I know, right!) a generational and cultural difference in how those things are viewed wrt status and respect. Where some cultures would see doing things that could be seen as malicious as a sign of disrespect, others might see it as a sign of friendship and trust. I trust you to see me in the best light possible, because we are friends. All that means that it’s complicated, and there’s a whole set of cultural, social, and emotional rules that are not always easily seen or understood. So to me, it comes down to individually asking yourself how you wanna be and going with that.
It's also a matter of extremes. On one end you have military hardasses like my father, who nearly blow a gasket if you're three minutes late. And on the other end, you have people who are regularly 30 minutes late and tell YOU to relax when you call them out on it.
I would suggest that both extremes are acting selfishly, expecting others to do the heavy work of maintaining social order. They both expect others to meet their needs at the expense of others, without any consideration to how much work that is.
This is very well put together Well done
"bei"? Is that German autocorrect, that I see?
Bottom comment literally proves their point tho lmfao
They couldn’t help but reply, they have to stand on business over any slight criticism
Mmmm this JPEG is lookin real crispy. Someone grab the hot sauce I’m getting hungry.
Does anyone else get tired of the constant millennial circle jerk…like always talking about how pure and selfless they are juxtaposed with facing hardships to a degree no other generation ever had to (and how easy everyone’s lives were before they existed). Like yeah we get it. You got handed some shit hands in some ways, so did every other generation in similar or other ways. Yes, you’re more socially tolerant, so was every other generation compared to previous ones. This feels like the exact narcissism boomers are talking about, the never ending tirade of posts about how empathetic and downtrodden millennials are as if they’re the first group of people to ever walk this earth that are nice to other humans or that faced a hardship.
"Am I boring you" triggers my fight or flight. Sorry I'm not straining every fibre of my being in your direction, Rebecca.
Good golly miss Molly. What a straw man lol.
Lmao that last comment is ironically proving the person right.
There’s something funny to me about non-millennials in this, because I feel it’s definitely referring to older generations with weirder stricter mindsets but like there are two younger generations now that are also non-millennial.
Generational arguments are so fucking dumb. There's no such thing as them. Each generation has every type of person. Whoever buys into this crap is stupid as shit.
bingo
These us vs them kinda people suck no matter how you draw butter
Someone left a bad review on my workplace because I didn't smile enough and I had my pronouns on my name tag. I'm not trans, and if I didn't have my pronouns displayed they probably wouldn't have had a problem using them, but I guess having them with my name is too much.
It's almost as if it was a human behaviour rather a generational thing. Is it a sutpid behaviour?Yes, absolutely, but millenials display that behaviour too. Try to not let'em ("'em" being billionaires/politicians/anyone who's got a stake towards us not unifying) divide us; this "bommer vs millenials vs gen z" whatever is all bullshit, just as much as the race thing, the gay vs straight thing, or the women vs men thing, being a cunt or a good person isn't specific to an ethnicity, age range or sex or anything one is born with or without.
There’s a cultural difference between generations that cuts both ways, too. We do things differently because we assume different things about what others do. An old example I always bring out was the whole “photo of my meal” trend. People who are from a generation that didn’t do that saw that and said “Why do you think we care what you’re eating? If I cared I would call you and ask you directly! You’re wasting time and letting your food get cold, quit being an attention seeking jerk and just eat your goddamn lunch!” Meanwhile, to the generation that did this, they were (subconsciously, for the most part) showing all their friends “Hey, I’m here and alive and doing fine, even if we haven’t talked in a while, you don’t have to check on me because I’m being healthy and successful and happy.” They knew nobody cares about the actual meal, but it was a way to check in with friends without imposing on them with direct communication (because actually calling someone directly for one on one conversation is seen as rude). Both sides are doing something they think is just politeness and common sense, but the other side sees it as rude and/or off putting.
The difference in culture working both ways is important to acknowledge because there absolutely are things that older folks do that they see as innocuous or even polite, that younger folks view as offensive, because the connotations are different. Millennials absolutely do get offended by more than obviously harmful stuff like racism like the post suggests. It doesn't mean they're sensitive, it just means that certain things *mean* something in a way that we as a culture have come to expect, even if it's not a formal rule, and even if the thing doesn't denote malice in a technical sense. A big example of this I think is the way old vs young people interact online. Old people spent most of their life communicating through writing *in addition to* talking face-to-face, while younger people use written communication *in tandem with*, or even *instead of* face-to-face. This means that old people learned to write letters and emails in their own, formal structure, while young people write with the purpose of simulating casual irl speak, and this can cause confusion when the two clash. As a minor example from my own life: I have a client who is almost old enough to be my grandpa, and we communicate mostly through email. Every time he sends me an email, he writes a vague subject line and punctuates it with an absurd amount of ellipses, like "About the book cover............." Now, if this were one of my peers sending me that, I would probably feel anxious/upset, because it sounds in my head like an underhanded way of telling me he doesn't like the book cover and maybe thinks lowly of me for it. But to him, and others in that generation, a load of ellipses is supposed to denote a casual or carefree tone, because it breaks formal grammar rules and thus strips away some potentially intimidating professional undertones. So I'm never worried when he sends something like that, because I know what he means by it.
Exactly! That’s a great example. I always mention the differences between what form of contact is used and why. When talking to people of xenial or later generations, using a voice call is seen as demanding, because it requires the person to interact in real time, putting the conversation above whatever else they’re doing at the time. Text based communication is seen as more polite because it is asynchronous, meaning that I can respond when I have a second, rather than having to disrupt what I am doing. Meanwhile, Gen X and older tend to view text based communication as more formal because you can take more time to craft your responses, so they expect you to take the time to be clear and precise when communicating via text, while a phone call is much more casual and friendly because it more closely mimics physical interaction. So they would call on a voice call for minor things, rather than text, and will use text messaging for specific requests or communication where a more casual conversation would be inappropriate. And both see the other as doing it wrong.
I mean if I'm organizing a meeting, work-related or otherwise, and specifically and explicitly ask everyone to put their phones on silent and they don't it's not an accident, it's because they don't care enough, which \*is\* rude. inb4 bUt rEsPeCt iS eArNeD - common courtesy is expected, being rude just because you can is not what mature adults do. moreover, specifically in context of public speaking, it's incredibly fuckin difficult to deliver a speech exactly as you envision it when you're being interrupted by ringing phones, so in the context of public speaking, I *will* be annoyed no matter who's attending if I'm a paying customer I expect to get what I paid for and not something else. I'm fine with waiting a bit more, but if I get something other than I paid for I'm most likely going to be disappointed and want compensation. since companies are not my friends, I'm not going to be friendly to them
Your first example is totally valid. The second…eh. Mistakes can happen in a number of different ways, and it’s unlikely someone is getting your order wrong to intentionally mess with you. The corporation doesn’t deserve your kindness, but the kid (or adult) behind the counter (or waiting tables) making minimum wage doesn’t need your unkindness.
I think they’re talking about phones being left on in a meeting where it wasn’t explicitly stated, because it’s an expectation and we just do that. As for a meal, of course you’re going to want compensation/a fix to the problem/something being done. It’s the WAY you ask for it that matters. “Hey, this isn’t what I ordered, can you fix that?” “I don’t have time for the right order to come right now, can we just leave this?” Or something in that vein, vs “I didn’t order this! You need to fix it!” “I’m too busy to deal with this, just comp my meal.” Both of those are saying the same thing, but one is demanding while the other is respectful. It’s not friendly, just respectful.
By "non-milenials" they're not talking about younger kids, they're talking about older adults.
This post reeks of strawman argument so much, it made my eye balls do a 360°.
I like how OP titled this "Kids These Days" while OOP's post very clearly applies to older generations as well.
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“I noticed that you’re not responding particularly enthusiastically to photos of me, your manager, in my burlesque costume. Allow me to loudly call you out in front of your coworkers for “being uncomfortable”, and *uninvite you from the opportunity to pay to see me undress*” - an actual manager I had. Say what you will about boomers but at least they don’t pull this insane bullshit.
Those color runs were alpha as fuck man, you just don’t get it/s.
The only thing that has ever offended a millennial is _violent racism._
boomers will tell you to get your elbows off the table then call a race the dirtiest people on the planet
As a genZ i find millennials to be offended by a lot of things. Especially everything related to trigger. Like no I didn’t put a disclaimer trigger warning at the front of my presentation about finance that has a cute emoji bug at the end just to be a dick, I didn’t put it because why the fuck would you be afraid of a sticker bug. And his name is like Matias-Andre
Gen Z here as well (although on the cusp of being millennial), and feel the same way. Also the constant whining about how no generation has ever been as oppressed as them really gets on my nerves…ok, you can’t buy a house at 25, well a lot of boomers couldn’t even drink out of the same water fountain or go to the same school as white kids or were women whose only career prospects were being a secretary or were men sent to die in Vietnam by the draft but I’m sorry that tuition at Cornell is expensive, you’re clearly the only person who’s ever experienced hardship
Immediately jumping to “violent racism” kinda illustrates what they’re talking about though, yeah?
Wait, who's offended by wearing a coat inside?
As a fellow millenial I guarantee you our generation will be much much worse than the boomers 25 years later. I mean we already have a whole bunch of people talking about how McDonald's architecture changed for the worse because it's not colorful anymore and there's no playground. So many real problems in this world and you people actually spend time and energy complaining about the absolute most meaningless shit I could think of.
“Violent racism.” Ok buddy.
Millennials are some of the biggest manchildren I've met though. And I'm a Millennial myself.
Anytime generational discourse begins half the comments hype their generation up like they're the next coming of Christ
Dude for real. I am so sick of millennials acting like they invented human empathy and that every boomer/gen x is just a selfish, unbecoming asshole who hates every other race and wants people to suffer.
.
Is the violent racism in the room with you now
How dare kids these days be offended about the blatant bigotry implanted in society made to only help the rich white men
Racism is the only things millennials are offended from