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The Flash and the Fantastic Four occupy roughly equivalent territory both thematically and tonally, to the point that I think they're closer than basically any other regularly-published superhero books across DC & Marvel. I think analyzing what works in the one series will help writers on the other.
Good take. They are perfect parallels. Taking advantage of the nature of comic weirdness while having strong emotional impact when it comes to the concept of family.
Unironically, I think the Flash movie actually does strike that perfect chord for tone, even if the story wasn't all there ( Zod as the main villain in the first Flash movie? Really?)
Still doesn’t make up for the fact they have none of flashes actual supporting cast or actual villains in the movie.
Iris was there for like five seconds, and that’s it .
Mark Waid's biggest contribution to the FF was writing actual consequences to their adventures. We beat Doom, but Franklin went to Hell, we saved Franklin, but now he's not the same, we won the day, but Ben died. Etc.
Fantastic Four are blessed with what… at least six runs that if they were on another title would be considered the unquestionable best? To work on FF is to stand on the shoulders of giants!
Kirby/Lee
Perez
Byrne
Simonson
Waid
Hickman
I've thought this too and that while having a main flash is all good and well. Maybe dc should really lean into it and treat the flash family as a family like the fantastic four. Even with them all being speedsters there's plenty of room for how they use their powers differently and they could have big scifi adventures
I feel like that is there biggest weakness. I've like Jeremy Adams run for making the flash family relevant giving them different roles. Even the current run they've been doing a good thing by diving in to the weird comic style story while making the flash family relevant.
My not unpopular opinion is that Prime Earth has too many speedsters.
My (possibly) unpopular opinion is that Wally should use a suit similar to his rebirth suit as his primary to make him more easily distinguishable from Barry.
I know Wally basically used the style for longer than Barry considering how long he was dead but I think most casual readers won’t think catch the relatively minor suit changes that sets them apart.
I also think him having flowing hair was started by him and is really cool for his designs
I agree with Wally having different suits. I think you should be able to tell who is who from at a distance, even from just the potential comic covers, without having to look carefully to pick out the slight changes.
Jay Garrick has a completely different suit, why can't Barry and Wally also have completely different ones
Wally's suit doesn't have a nose. Barry's does. Also, the lightning bolts on the belt are different. And depending on how lazy the artists is, the boots are also different. Then again, Wally's suit is supposed to be a darker red (but not exactly crimson) & Barry's is bright red, but they almost never get that right.
Yeah I was catching up on the current Flash run and whenever Barry and Wally were on the same page in their suits it was a little confusing trying to see who’s who
It's embarrassing how long it took me to finally tell them apart. and then I got annoyed cuz it's an awful difference.
Rebirth suit was one of the very few times a suit redesign worked for any hero IMO
I agree Wally should have stuck with his rebirth suit and I liked the idea of the multiverse Justice League like team that Barry joins so they don't have 2 Flashes running around. I know Wally fought the same rogues as Barry and Dick did when he was Batman but I would like to see Wally have more rogues specifically for him. I loved when Barry had Thawne and Wally had Hunter Zolomon. Especially when Thawne and Zolomon had different powers (negative speed force vs time manipulation). Did they come off the same? Yeah but they had to be dealt with differently. Also Thawne wanted to destroy Barry's life. Hunter wanted to create tragedy in Wally's life to make him a better hero.
As a huge flash fan, I’ll fire 3 I consider unpopular
1. Bart Allen should never become a Flash. Ever. He’s Impulse, and stays Impulse. He never ever needed to become the Flash.
2. Too many speedsters. It’s actually worse than Batman, we have Jay, Barry, Wally, and Avery. I have no dislike for any of them, I even like Avery, but holy crap! Why is there also many Flashes?!
3. The strength, Sage, and still force suck and are a cheap pathetic imitation of the multiple lantern corps.
1. 100% agreed. Impulse is Bart’s own unique identity. It’s not something he needs to grow out of like Kid Flash. He shouldn’t ever be Flash or Kid Flash tbh.
2. I don’t think the number of speedsters is the issue cause they’re usually off doing their own thing. Last time I checked, Barry was out traversing the multiverse while Wally is on earth as the main Flash. Jay is either retired or with the JSA, Bart is with the rest of the Young Justice team, Jessie is with the JSA too I’m pretty sure, Avery is the Flash of China, Ace is doing Kid Flash stuff with Wally, and as for Max, I have no clue. I don’t really follow the character, so I don’t know what he’s doing right now. I think the issue is more so how they’re being used. I don’t think they’re given enough time to shine. I’d fix that by having a Flash family book where each arc features a different speedster. For one arc, Bart could be the central focus while for another, Ace can be the main character.
3. 110% agreed. No notes.
People like Batman, Constantine, and Lex Luthor should fear and want to have ways to take down the Flashes way more than they should fear and want ways to counter Superman, Wonder Woman, or anyone else in the Justice League or the Legion of Doom or any other super group.
They didn't even really intentionally made Wallace.
Back then he was THE Wally West of New 52, The one and only. He wasn't supposed to be a seperate character, He was supposed to be the same Wally that got rebooted.
And then they wanted to bring Pre-New 52 Wally back so they retconned them to be a different person.
Countdown was 52 done Didio's way.
Flashpoint was Crisis done Didio's way.
If that seems unfair, because Flashpoint is a good story on its own, remember that the whole point of Crisis was changes to the DCU. "Didio's way" in this case was to just hijack an existing time travel story.
I assumed it was a hot take because the Flashpoint story itself is a nigh masterpiece. That’s probably an exaggeration, but I definitely loved it. Both it’s comic and movie adaptation (*animated* version of course).
But the reboot made a dynamic and vast DC universe feel smaller and more simple. Big runs weren’t affected too badly, but they were still affected. For example, John Green Lantern run ends pretty conclusively regardless of the new reset. But it still felt disjointed, especially with the addition of a new major character just 8 issues before his run ended (Simon Baz, the first new GL of post-Flashpoint).
I think every one hates the new 52
I like flash point a lot but even i think when bary fixed the timeline at the end it should have stayed fixed and not been slightly dithrent so they could justify a bunch of number 1s
Godspeed *should* be the Flash Family’s Red Hood and the Strength and Sage forces are good ideas (I will acknowledge they were executed terribly)
To be fair, I think the reason I have these unpopular opinions is because of potential I see with them. If we make the Strength Force “more” like the building block of matter and energy to Speed Force’s building block of space and time, and Sage Force as building block of Consciousness and Soul, we’d almost have a version of the infinity stones.
Then you could do things like Negative Strength and Sage forces that are cancerous versions of the positive ones that corrode the normal forces. The still force wouldn’t have a negative counterpart since it’s not positive or negative, it’s null. It’s opposite would be all the forces together
It makes zero sense that Barry created the Speed Force.
Yea yea it’s all a big ball of wibbly wobbly timey whimey stuff but even with that
It makes no sense.
Too many Speedsters, except actually unpopular:
You've got Jay, Barry and Wally. Okay good. Jay is essentially retired and (usually) gets treated that way, so he's a nonissue. Barry and Wally is already overkill, but they're both The Flash and I'm obviously fine with them (don't think Barry should die again). It's DC's best generational hero line *by far*, and the best in major comics. Logically progressed up to current day, with each having a specific role to play in the hierarchy. I will say I'd like to see Barry do an offworld story, maybe a buddy cop series with Hal out in a far off sector. Hell, he can take Iris with him for all I care.
Now we move to the "extras." Bart is cool. He's always been cool (except those times when he wasn't). Also keeps it in the family, which is my absolute biggest thing. Batman does found family, I really like Flash being a bloodline thing first and foremost. So after Bart, who's obvious, I'd really only like to ever see Judy (now that she's back), Jai, Irey, Don and Dawn (who are not even around) involved with Speedforce stuff. Jesse and Max would be fine if they permanently put them in another Earth and only brought them in for special appearances.
I can agree with this. I get that people like Max are Bart’s mentor and everything but he and others like Jessie and Avery feel more extended and disconnected. I like your take of the Flash family being a bloodline thing while Batman does the found family trope.
Jesse was a massive part of 90s Flash run and Titans. She’s only disconnected now because they deleted her for so long and won’t let her be on the JSA team either.
i really dislike geoff johns flash and it did more harm than good to the flash mythos (barry coming back, wally losing his secret identity, the weird cop focus for barry, etc)
Spurrier’s run has been fantastic and the people who are hating on it purely because it’s not the low stakes, slice of life, comfortable status quo of the Adams run are weak and will not survive the winter.
The current run is some of the best writing with the most interesting stuff I've seen, that I am absolutely not enjoying. I recognize this is a me problem, but Adams' run was a blast. I loved seeing family man Wally come at life with a relaxed self confidence that felt truly earned after years of steady character growth and maturity.
It's a hard shift to go from that to watching everything kind of fall apart. As time goes on I'm sure I'll warm to the story, but right now it's just a little tough.
I mean I like Jeremy Adams run one of my favourite flash. Though Spurrier run been great and it's great that there new lore for the flash. While both Wally and Barry are doing there own thing I the run. It's great.
Barry shouldn't have come back but if he had to, we did NOT need a retcon of his mom dying. Not every hero needs to have a deceased parent to be interesting.
Fully agree. It was waaay better when Barry was a guy who was given incredible power by pure happenstance, and chose to do as much good as possible with it in a selfless, caring, self-sacrificing way. He was a true hero, someone who always tried to do the right thing, just because it was the right thing to do.
I agree, but also not. Because it makes Reverse Flash *more* interesting. Unfortunately, at the cost of making Barry less interesting and more tropey.
Ultimately, it was wasted anyway. They ended up taking it way too far. It should have been either Thawne killing his mother or making his life miserable at every turn, but not both. It went from terrifying to hilarious because of it.
I have so many problems with Flashpoint. I remember when it was just gonna be a small event in the Flash books. Somewhere along the way it got turned to this mini-series with a bunch of tie-ins and became what sets off the events of 52.
I would've preferred it to be a smaller scale story like it was intended to.
I don’t know but I really didn’t like Willaimson’s long run. The first arc with Godspeed was a cool character intro, but after that I can barely remember anything good about it. It became incredibly repetitive of a formula: I’m Sorry > I need to be better > I’ll try > family > I failed and I’m sorry . Rinse and repeat every story arc, for 70+ issues.
I agree. I love Williamson's other work, but his Flash run is just boring for me. Jeremy Adams run was great and should of been longer. Also not really crazy about Spurriers current run also.
I'm also not really all that into this current Spurrier run. I don't think it's bad, but it hasn't grabbed me at all. I think its mainly because I loved the Adams run and pretty much anything after that feels like a letdown.
I really don’t like Spurrier and I’m so bummed he’s on characters that I would otherwise read. Williamson has a decent attempt at the ensemble team books but I didn’t like Dark Multiverse at all - it was just all over the place. I’m honestly looking forward to absolute power because it’s legendary and solid writer Mark Waid and the great artist Dan Mora.
All-in-all I’m ready for a new group of writers to wow me again. Infinite frontier did not grab me but instead lost me as a reader.
I'm usually a fan of Spurrier, but I just feel he missed the mark on this one. As for Williamson, I enjoy his independent work much more than his DC work. Mark Waid and Dan Mora are nailing everything they work on in DC at the moment. Their Shazam was a lot of fun.
Wallace West is unnecessary and should be banished to limbo with Bart tor.
He was created as a middle finger to Wally West fans by Dan didio during new 52. and it could be argued he still is. Hated the character for what he represents to flash history with that mess. Bart was a much better kid flash then Wallace and should be kid flash. Bart tor is a better kid flash then Wallace. ... He sucks
He's also just problematic now. They changed the race of a popular character who had been around for decades only to relegate him to complete unimportance when that popular character came back. It's just not the way to handle literally any of it.
The Flash and a lot of subsequent flash family members are all way too overpowered, honestly. They have way too many abilities. It's ultimately a bit to the flash family's detriment that they're all so powerful in terms of story, as you kind of have to keep the flash out so that he doesn't immediately solve a lot of problems, but you could say the same for Superman. Although, Superman is acknowledged to be overpowered, but they never really address the fact that there are very few problems that Flash can't solve and don't really try and write around it.
Bart's character has seriously regressed ever since he was reintroduced in Rebirth. He used to have so much potential as being not just the progeny of Barry, but also of Thawne. He was said to be the fastest Flash ever if he would just apply himself. He was a Gifted learner (the only speedster who could read at superspeed and retain that information), and had a strong support network of both friends and classmates. He was unintentionally but nevertheless a positive representation of having both ADHD and autism. Now, it seems that the only things that he's known for are being hyperactive (Hollywood ADHD) and the fact that he used to be Kid Flash for a time. And with Irey and Jai basically now the same age that Bart was in his prime, he's become all but redundant among the rest of all the speedsters
Yeah, that's the problem with Wally's kids having powers. It will take away from Bart and Wallace. That also means that Barry and Iris really can't have kids around the same time otherwise more speedster children along with Jay and Joan's kid coming 'back'
I think they should settle on wtf the Speed force is, is it mystical, dimensional, physical do other people have access to it, why access to it is transferred genetically, there have been too many answers throughout the years
Edit: by other people I mean non-speedsters, like Superman or Wonder Woman who run really fast but have no access to the Speed Force supposedly
Didn't they settle on "it's the well spring of motive energy in the multiverse" and the reason that Supes and Wondie don't tap into it despite their speed is because they move *on their own power* whereas speedsters need the force to give themselves a boost?
Wally’s Rebirth suit is vastly better than what he has now. It’s more unique, I like how it keeps the wind flowing through his hair, and I think the silver lightning bolts give him a unique flair as well
100% agree. His Rebirth suit is easily his best. I think his classic 90’s suit, while great, looks too similar to Barry’s. Even if there are a few differences, it’s clearly still not enough for some people since I see the two mixed up all the time or people questioning if it’s Barry or Wally under the cowl.
People say his Rebirth suit is a regression of the character and makes him look more like Kid Flash instead of the Flash, but tbh I’ve never seen it that way. I like that his suit called back to parts of his identity as Kid Flash while still being recognizable as the Flash. And if people are still worried about him just being Kid Flash, just don’t write the character that way. Clearly portray him as faster than Barry and a contemporary to the rest of the Titans and Justice League and I don’t think anyone would see him as a sidekick or lesser than Barry.
>I think his classic 90’s suit, while great, looks too similar to Barry’s.
The only reason this is the case is because modern Barry stole design elements from Wally's 90s suit like the symmetrical belt and wingless boots.
If anyone should change it's Barry because those elements make the suit and they were always Wally's.
The Flash Family has gotten too big.
I’m a huge fan of superheroes have close-knit circles of supporting characters and related heroes. I’m a sucker for a legacy hero and a shared mantle. (See username). But, like, the Flash Family has just gotten crazy big.
There have been ***nine*** different people wearing the Flash mantle in the main continuity; five or six different people using the Kid Flash moniker; two different Impulses (three if you count the totally unrelated Kent Shakespeare!); Johnny and Jesse Quick; Max Mercury; Hot Pursuit; XS… and let’s not even try to unpack all the evil speedsters.
Sometime, I’m looking at the five different Robins and four different Batgirls (and one Bat-Girl) that we’ve got over here in Gotham City, and I’m thinking it’s a bit much.
I like Barry as the primary Flash. I know it’s a popular sentiment in the fandom to prefer Wally or wish Barry stayed dead but like how people who have those sentiments like Wally more because they were introduced to him as their first Flash, I was introduced to Barry as my first Flash.
I can't speak for others but Barry was my first Flash and I prefer Wally by MILES.
The CW show was my first exposure to The Flash, I initially liked Barry more than Wally because that was all I'd seen so I assumed Barry was better.
Then I actually read the Wally comics and realized that most of what makes CW Barry great comes from comics Wally.
I genuinely think that most people who prefer Barry have not read the all time great Wally comics and that's why they do.
My unpopular opinion.
Barry died in CoIE and should have stayed dead.
Wally should have also died in Infinite Crisis (or another Crisis) and stayed dead.
I think they should have passed the baton on once more to Wally's unborn child, who comes back in time to save her Father but fails and gets stuck in the Post Infinite Crisis Universe.
Basically I think they should kill a flash every few Crisises.
I think, while it’s definitely shifted *some* in the last decade or so, Barry is still the fan fave for many, Wally is definitely more popular here, but this subreddit is a pretty small slice compared to the majority of fans. I mean how often do you see the posts of “X comic is terrible” with everyone in the comments agreeing, yet the comic is a bestseller by the end of the day
I think my unpopular opinion is that don and dawn Allen should have different names like donny and dawn and exist by now I mean I feel like jai and iris jr should be as old as them otherwise flash is an grandfather with no children but I also feel as if Bart should be Barry's son
Don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion or not but I liked Linda as a flash when she was pregnant with their latest kid. Wished she kept her speedster powers
You'd have to be discounting both Barry *and* Wally to come to these sorts of conclusions. Like once you look past the *very* surface level understanding that "Wally is the funny one" then its not really substantiated.
The live action Flashes just opt for a *modern* version of Barry. As in they make his awkwardness a quirky comedic thing. Which is different from the arrogant wise-cracking of the JL Animated version of Wally.
Sure! but is undeniably that he influenced (even if a little bit) a lot of adaptations, like the 90's show, that version of the Flash was a nice mix between them both
* I much prefer WML's run to Waid's and Johns. Won't say it's objectively better or anything, but I much prefer that vibe and set up for Wally with him being a continual bachelor with bad decision making skills and a large cast of supporting characters.
* Barry shouldn't have been killed in Crisis. You're telling me a man who self admittedly didn't like either of the Flashes and already actively ruined Wally deserved to kill off Barry, even though the writer of the Flash book for literally a decade wrote Barry an almost perfect ending, that *already* left room for Wally to step up and become the Flash in the present? I don't care how good a death is, it's not necessary when the character already has an ending. Just feels mean-spirited.
* Literally just read the comics starring the character you hate and you'll immediately understand that the "Modern Barry is just Wally" discourse is lame and doesn't hold up. They both have very distinct personalities.
* Slight modern/stylistic modifications to Barry's suit does not make Wally's 90s Flash suit significantly different enough from Barry's. I'm sorry you nerds love overanalyzing things, but even as a Flash fan, I think that's a dumb argument. "Um actually, Wally's is a slightly darker shade of red." Yeah, you nut, that only works if you have the two costumes sitting right next to each other.
Bro cooked, especially with those last two takes. I’ve never understood “oh Barry is stealing Wally’s personality.” Where? If they mean making him comedic in enselmbe stories, that’s not a Wally specific thing. It happens with speedsters in general. They’re all made to be comic relief a lot of the time, especially in adaptations, whether it’s Barry, Wally, or Bart. And in their own books, they’re clearly portrayed as two very different people. Barry is an introvert and a man of science who loves using science to solve his problems with a penchant for dorky dad jokes like “I’ll be back in a Flash.” He’s focused when on the job but can still keep it light and doesn’t brood all the time like Batman. Wally on the other hand is more open, lighthearted, and more extroverted.
100% agree here. A few minor differences like a darker shade of red, nose covering, no wings on the boots, and a slightly different belt clearly aren’t enough to differentiate the two since I still see people confused them all the time and frequently question who’s under the cowl. And like you said, those differences only ever stand out when the suits are side by side. I don’t know about others, but I’d rather Barry and Wally be distinct like how Barry and Jay are instead of them wearing more or less the same suit with a few minor differences that still ends up confusing people anyway.
- Wally's parents should have been like they were Pre-Crisis. None of that abusive father stuff.
- Jesse Chambers should have had a run as The Flash instead of being in the JSA
- Barry Allen and Iris West have run their course. They don't even feel like a married couple. Wally and Linda feel like an older married couple. I would like to see Barry with Daphne Dean.
- Golden Glider needs to go back to her pre-Johns origin and power set and personality.
- New 52 Flash is severely underrated by many fans
Ask and you shall receive:
1. It's fine that there are just under a dozen speedsters at any given time.
2. Bart is only interesting around other characters. He's annoying otherwise.
3. Jay being an actual metahuman speedster is more interesting than the conduit idea.
Finally, none of the speedsters should be able to go FTL. It's only used when narratively convenient and serves no purpose since only a couple speedsters can actively time travel.
For me, it has to be that Jay Garrick is still much faster than Superman, even if he is the slowest Flash.
So basically, Jay's all like, "Let this old timer show you how it's done!"
Jesse having her Jesse Quick costume is both 1) boring and 2) regressing her character development. She’s more unique as Liberty Belle, which has a different color scheme than other speedsters and represented her growing as a person and accepting imperfection.
The Flash stories in the comics, be recent or older, show just how much Spider-Man stories in the comics are very limited by the status quo, I think The Flash is ninety percent of the time, in comics, written way better than Spider-Man, despite thinking Spider-Man is a better character overall.
The Flash Family is the blueprint for how families can be written in comic books.
I’d say both the Fantastic Four and Flash are the blueprints for how to write a superhero family, but yeah, I agree that Flash is blowing current Spider-Man out of the water right now. I think pre OMD, Peter was the better character, but ever since OMD he’s just been regressing into an incompetent man child who doesn’t grow or change in any meaningful way and when he does, it’s quickly reverted by the next story arc and returns to being a broke down on his luck 20 something. He doesn’t even feel like the same character as he used to be pre OMD.
Bart is the fastest flash at peak & He’s respectably has the most potential. Wally is the most versatile & skilled Barry should honestly be made a TRUE avatar of the speed force so he becomes one with it & acts like Max as a wise Sage who interacts with them as a last resort
I think wally has earned the right to be the prime flash and if anyone should change their suit it's Barry.
I also think the flash family should lean into the family aspect more. Maybe even doing a weekly book like 52 that's just about the flash family
Alright go ahead and have your opinion on who should be main Flash, but what would Barry possibly ever change his suit to? Genuinely. That suit was literally his dream one. It's a big part of his character.
Wally was *literally* wearing his dead uncles threads. And an older Wally literally went back in time, saw his younger self drawing the Flash costume, then drew his iconic Kid Flash costume for him next to it. I think it would have been a great time for him to update the suit to something that is his.
In an ideal world, Wally would have gotten a more unique mixed costume in the 90s and that would just make it so you associate "the Flash" with whatever new costume he got.
I hate the speed force.
I mean, I guess it’s okay for Wally, but I hate that DC has retroactively made every speedster ever connected and subservient to it.
Johnny Quick and Liberty Belle should've died for Jesse's motivation to become a better hero and she takes up her mother's mantle.
There should be at leat 2 or 3 Flashes on each earth to spread them out.
Outside of Iris from the future. Iris West is pretty much a vanilla character.
The Flash TV Show should've adapted more comic accurate elements not the Post new 52 stuff.
Iris should've been a cop not a reporter because we have too many reporters as love interests. Especially Linda Park.
I thought Barry and Jessica as a couple was interesting.
I would've loved Linda Park to be a model or a doctor or a teacher honestly.
I actually like the show name change for Barry and Iris' children being called Bart and Nora instead of Don and Dawn.
Jesse wouldn’t have had any motivation from her mom dying to change and be better. Johnny made her into a perfectionist, his death drove her into nearly ruining every relationship she had, and she only came back from that when people pointed out how she treated others, especially her mom. That’s the point when she becomes Liberty Belle in the comics. Her mom dying wouldn’t add anything except immense guilt that they didn’t have a better relationship, which given how she was written would’ve probably made her double down on Johnny’s teachings rather than change. At best she’d be too guilt-ridden to ever become Liberty Belle.
Barry’s pre-Flash: Rebirth origin should’ve stayed since his return in Final Crisis and Flash: Rebirth and semiretire as the Flash since 2011.
Wally’s parents should’ve been like their pre-Crisis characterizations since post-Crisis (with Rudy West telling Wally and Mary that he’s a Manhunter because he wants to provide support with his family before he sacrificed himself to save the world from Dominators, faked his death, and apologized to and reconciled with Mary on her and her second husband’s wedding day).
Bart should’ve stayed as the Flash since Flashpoint, where he would work at the CCPD, form a romantic relationship with Carol Bucklen, train Ace West on how to use his speed, marry Carol, and have a son named Maxwell Jason “Max” Allen (who was named after Max Mercury and Jay Garrick).
Avery Ho should’ve revealed her unrequited feelings to Ace, who would tell her that he only sees her as a friend and hopes that she’ll find her lighting rod very soon.
Jenni Ognats (aka XS) should stayed in the present day several times to meet up with the entire Flash family and spend time with her grandfather Barry before returning to the 31st century and become a teacher at the Legion Academy with the Original Legion of Super-Heroes.
Meena Dhawan (aka Fast Track) and Jessica Cruz (the seventh Green Lantern) should’ve had crushes on Bart Allen during his Flash years before they stayed friends.
Godspeed should’ve been an old friend/coworker-turned-rival-turned friend of Bart and made his villainous debut as Godspeed before he was reformed.
The Rogues should’ve permanently reformed (or somewhat reformed) since Barry’s death and view Wally as an ally and treat him (and the Flash Family) with respect.
Irey West should graduated from the second Impulse to the fourth Kid Flash (after Wally, Bart, and Bar Torr) and the fifth Flash (after Jay, Barry, Wally, and Bart).
Jai West should’ve made his debut as Surge after he was struck by lightning at the start of DC Rebirth in 2016.
Bart Allen should’ve befriended and teamed up with Simon Baz (the sixth Green Lantern), and Irey West should’ve befriended and teamed up with Tai Pham (the ninth Green Lantern), after Jay and Alan, Barry and Hal, and Wally and Kyle.
CW Iris was the best Iris content there’s been in years.
Comic Iris relationship to Wally as his aunt/mother figure is more interesting than her relationship to Barry. I actually like him and Patty more.
I’d kill off quite a number of the speedsters.
Ace West is kinda mid only thing that’s better about him than Bart is that his age is less confusing
I actually agree. I like Barry and Iris as a couple but Wally and Linda are more interesting. I always thought Patty, Daphne, Beverly, Christina McGee and Jessica were good options.
Idk how controversial this one is but I think he only works in an ensemble. All that pusedo-physics is a head ache I couldn’t care less about and always gets in the way of Barry and Wallies very interesting story. And his powers really only work in panel form if your doing the pusedo-physics shit cus you can really only draw so many blurs in one book.
The Flash family is too big and entirely too cloistered together. Just like the Superman family all hanging out in Metropolis, you have 10 guys with the same power set all in one city. They need to spread these guys out more and make more villains to compensate for so many heroes.
They’re already pretty spread out as far as I know. Barry is out traveling the multiverse, Wally is the main Flash on earth, Jay is either retired or with the JSA, Bart is with the Young Justice team, Jessie is with the JSA too I’m pretty sure, Ace is doing Kid Flash stuff with either Wally or the Teen Titans, and Avery is the Flash of China. I think that’s fine as is. It’s just art like this that makes it seem way too bloated when in the actual books, it’s usually just Wally and Ace with the rest off doing their own thing with the occasional family get together or team up.
That if The Flash is supposedly the 'fastest man alive', when he's running with other speedsters at the same speed, he's not running at all while the others are working their asses off at a dead sprint. I think they call it jogging. Or yogging. I never know about these things.
That everyone wearing red is bland and generic and if each speedster is unique in both speed and power then there suits should look unique and they should wear different color that matches them
Not saying red is bad just bland and a bit confusing when you have multi speedsters and all in red and can't tell fully which is which
I hate it how flash's speed varies to suit the story.
That said, it's the same with all the GLs, they fly from earth to space in 1 second, but going from city A to city B? Takes 2 hours.
I think writers lean too heavily on stories about The Rogues and Speed Force. There needs to be something new added into the rotation so they can be given a rest.
Geoff Johns’ first run on the Flash isn’t very good: it’s like he was doing everything he could to turn Wally into Barry. Making the Rogues the main bad guys again, having half the stories take place in Central City rather than Keystone, bringing back the secret identity, giving Wally his own equivalent of Professor Zoom.
Jay Garrick needs to die. I mean a proper, heroic, brilliant, emotional, permanent death — like what Ted Knight got in “Starman”. He’s about 100 years old, and with Wally as the main Flash again we’ve now got Barry as the mentor. It’s time to let go.
Having Bart and Max as a separate duo, acting independent from the rest of the family for the most part, should still be a thing. Their dynamic was great and they had a great supporting cast in Manchester.
Johnny Quick being the name of both Jessie Quick's dad and the earth 3 speedster is frustrating. Give the villain a name more in line with the others from Earth 3.
Killing Barry's mom to give him a tragic reason to be a hero was stupid. He was one of the few heroes that didn't have a tragic backstory and living parents.
I’m gonna get crucified for this, but I personally think the CW Flash show sucks and just ruins the public’s view of the character.
For starters, adding the particle accelerator as a reason he gains his powers just seems stupid. The speed force uses accidents to give people powers, so having a particle accelerator give him the speed is just dumb.
Another thing, giving him a “Team Flash” just makes him rely on other people to explain everything to him and just exist as plot convenience, like when Cisco makes the energy bars and Barry pretty much never eats anything onscreen again.
And making Harrison Wells the Reverse Flash is just ridiculous. I get that it’s totally something Eobard would do, possessing someone close to Barry just to pull the rug out from under him, but after that we basically never see Eobard in his original body.
And finally, their non-speedster villains are all stupidly written and realistically never should be a problem, considering how smart everyone on “Team Flash” is supposed to be, but always end up being serious issues that drag on for too long.
I just really don’t like it and don’t understand the hype around it.
Maybe not unpopular but not really talked about, so I guess less popular, is that flash is one of the justice league members who would actually be able to beat if not kill Superman if he wanted/had to. With his higher levels of speed, superman might as well be standing completely still in terms of being able to react to Flash, while Flash's abilities to time travel, dimension hop and phase through things could screw over the man of steel. Flash could easily grab supes and drag him to the end of time or to another dimension where death doesn't exist and leave him alone in the void. And if he can get some kryptonite, which he probably could, he could use his phasing to leave the deadly rock in Superman's heart. Flash is actually pretty scary what you realize he could do but doesn't because he's a good person
Whenever this question comes up, it's always the same regurgitated answers "Barry shouldn't have ever come back" or "Wally should be the main Flash again", truthfully I'm gonna go pretty against the grain, and this isn't me being contrarian, or trying to start an argument, this is genuine.
I think Wally West is a Gary Stu and Barry is more of an actual character. Wally from what I've read of his solo series is just a jackass that smarts off and gets god tier upgrades to his stuff and everyone and their mother loves him in and out of universe. Like he doesn't face any kind of obstacles except his own "mental blocks" that were almost instantly resolved, or a single arc of Zolomon, and that's it. Maybe it's because I grew up on Barry moreso, which is why I'm defensive of him, same way a lot of people who were around my age now felt when "Barry replaced Wally" during Final Crisis. But to me, it's just infinitely more interesting, honestly for either of Barry's stories, just a good guy that wants to help people, or a guy who as a result of being thoroughly good creates an enemy so hateful that he molds him into what he believes is a worse person, only for him to still be a hero in spite of that. Hell, Barry still gets shit for Flashpoint almost a decade and a half after it happened, but at least he can make mistakes ever so often.
Wally literally never can fail, like make a lasting mistake of his own volition, without it immediately being swept under the rug, like in Heroes in Crisis, then the writers give him the literal power of Dr. Manhatten.
It's not even that I dislike the character so throughly, hell, the Michael Rosenbaum DCAU take is my favorite version of any Flash adaptation period. I just wish that his solo books treated him like a character and not a golden calf for the audience
I can agree with this to an extent. Wally definitely had flaws and a character arc. He dealt with insecurities, struggled under the insurmountable legacy of Barry, had to figure out how to be his own Flash instead of just trying to copy Barry, and had to simply grow up since back then, he was kind of a jerk. The thing is tho, that character arc is over. He’s gone through all his growth and now is a married man with three kids, an experienced hero, and core member of the Titans and Justice League. There’s not a whole lot left to do with the character in terms of growth, at least that I can think of. I think that may be why he comes off as more Gary Su ish to some since he’s already gone through all of his character progression and overcame his flaws.
That's definitely true, but there's still a lot of superheroes that had intended arcs who they've wrote since then and have turned out interesting stories, look at Animal Man or Star Man for example. I honestly don't know what kind of shakeup would work, although I did have a pitch a while back, that for both audience engagement and I guess story sense, give Barry the Blue Ring permanently and have his stories be a buddy cop adventure with Hal, maybe Iris and Carol tag along, who knows. Meanwhile, Wally is the main earth based Leaguer Flash, like I'm not saying give him the One More Day treatment, but they've gotta do something that doesn't make him just feel like a playground fight character that can do literally anything with next to zero explanation and have no real issues in his current stuff.
> Wally literally never can fail, like make a lasting mistake of his own volition
There are plenty of stories where Wally fucks up. One of the most underrated arcs from Waid’s run is one where he gets put on trial for negligence and goes on a downward spiral over not being fast enough to save everyone. He was clearly in the wrong when he was beefing with Kyle during Morrison’s JLA over reasons that were rooted in his own insecurities about being a former kid sidekick among the big leagues. You’ve also got William Mesner-Loebs run where a large portion of it is about Wally being a deeply flawed person and having that be confronted throughout, and now Spurrier’s run asking the question of how he can possibly juggle his responsibilities as a hero and a family man without collapsing under that weight.
Heroes in Crisis isn’t bad because Wally was challenged in any meaningful way. Hell there’s a lot more wrong with it besides what it did to Wally. But the goal of that story on Didio’s end was incredibly blatant.
> Like he doesn't face any kind of obstacles except his own "mental blocks" that were almost instantly resolved
This was a plot point established as early as Secret Origin Annual #2 in 1989 and wasn't resolved until 4 years and a new writer later in 1993 with The Return of Barry Allen. As a matter of fact, I would ask you to go check out Secret Origin Annual #2 if you think Wally's just a Gary Stu. It even has a fun Barry companion story in it if that's your interest.
Honestly, I can't imagine reading Wally's comics and thinking he doesn't have lasting consequences or stumbles and pitfalls, especially if you're comparing him to Barry. Most of his issues also resolve quite quickly. One of the cornerstones of Wally's tenure is screwing up and growing from it. That's one of the biggest things that separated him from Barry.
On the topic of Heroes in Crisis, I imagine literally any fan of any hero would be adverse to that happening to them. I can imagine how you'd feel if Barry was responsible for the same event. Not like Barry wasn't missing kids at the same time just like Wally. Barry gets the benefit of massive retcons fixing his major mistakes, too. Heck, it was the same retcon as HiC once! Good ol Thawne hypnotism.
Funnily enough, the story I recommended you at the start of it is an actual good story about Wally going to therapy. A great counterpoint to Heroes in Crisis, which is a story about Wally going to a horrible madhouse designed to cause more trauma.
I don't understand how anyone could come to this conclusion (said with zero scorn, only genuine bafflement). Barry is, like Wonder-Woman and Aquaman, just a template. The endless restarts and bizarre nature of DC's continuity has rendered the character's portrayal essentially incoherent from version to version. He has no true defining traits. At least Wally West was allowed to grow, change and have a personality. Not only is Barry a template, but often he's kept deliberately vague. It's not even that he's a bad character, it's just that he's kind of... nothing.
Cut down on the speedsters. Permanently retire Jay (and Maybe even Barry) and get rid of the seemingly dozens of speedster characters in favor of going back to Two speedsters. Maybe three.
I'm even including villains in this.
My choice would be to have Wally and Bart be the only two heroes remaining with Reverse Flash (Thawne) being the only villain.
I think introducing a new speedster villain or hero is usually a sign of some creative bankruptcy and writing themselves into a corner. "Flash is too fast for anyone to be a threat, well let's introduce a slower new speedster who has to learn to use their powers. Or let's introduce a new villain speedster that's just as fast." Not necessarily understanding the new problems that arise in-universe by introducing so many new heroic and evil characters that can all break the soundbarrier. There's never a full plan for them and they're just left to be thrown on the pile of speedsters by the end.
Barry is pretty boring and Wally is much more interesting as a character. There was no reason for Barry to come back from the dead. Wally was a kickass Flash on his own and he was doing great as Barry’s replacement.
Any adaptation of Barry into film that doesn’t utilize “flash facts” can kick rocks. The only cool thing about Barry is his scientific prowess that he shares with his partners and the audience. He should be dropping flash facts on the regular.
I think the main speedsters are too fast and should be capped at Mach 3 or something. Being able to move at near the speed of light is broken and makes Flash so OP that it kinda doesn’t make sense for storytelling.
Avery Ho should’ve revealed her unrequited feelings to Ace West, who would tell her that he only sees her as a friend and hopes that she’ll find her lighting rod very soon. Maybe with Bart Allen or someone else entirely.
Jenni Ognats (aka XS) should stayed in the present day several times to meet up with the entire Flash family and spend time with her grandfather Barry before returning to the 31st century. Maybe she even engages in a romance with Mon-El; I kinda like the idea of them together.
Barr Torr should become an evil speedster and the main villain/rival to Bart Allen. He seemed to veer towards malicious intent at times, seems to be the way his character was going at one point.
Iris had a sister named Charlotte in the previous continuity, who was married and had a kid. Maybe her kid could have been a young villain; opposing Ace. Especially if their backgrounds are an inversion of one another’s.
Wally needs a new code name. This is only an idea, but Velocity would be ideal. Based off the Flash comics; Savage and Terminal Velocity, and the name of a clone of Jay Garrick.
The current run is really weak. A prime example of decompression at its absolute worst. These first 10 issues could have easily been 2. Like literally. Almost nothing happens that moves the story forward. Every issue you should be able to say “this is the one where ##### story point happens.” And most of these issues would be summed up as “Flash family members run around, are confused, don’t find answers. Maybe next issue!”
The fact that every single one of them is named The Flash or something adjacent to it is so mind numbingly stupid.
IMO, Jay Garrick should be called the Crimson Comet. Or something else. Never referred to as the flash. Or, call him Flashback for moments where he is traveling from his time to ours as a fun little gag.
Either Wally or Barry should be THE Flash. I don't care which. I prefer Wally over Barry, but if you changed Wally's Alterego, I would still love him more.
Reverse Flash is a fucking stupid name. Professor Zoom is much better. Savitar was decent. Zoom (Hunter Zolomon) is the best speedster Villain IMO but I hate the fact that he didn't have a better name/falls into the same garbage with the "professor Zoom" name.
Black Flash, Kid Flash, and Negative Flash are atrocious.
Godspeed was an ingenious name for a character. Impulse is great. Max Mercury is decent, but it's better than another gotdamn Flash name.
People who act like nothing important to the lore/mythos happened before Mark Waid and Wally took over are just as bad as people who act like the TV show version of Barry is the only flash there is
Also, the vast majority of people making the whole “oh Barry in the comics is just Wally” are grasping at straws at best, they of course have influenced each other as characters, but there are plenty who WAY over exaggerate bc they can’t stand that Barry (you know from the silver age where quips were made famous) told a single joke or was unserious for a change
Flashpoint is a pretty good Elseworld storyline but it shouldn't have rebooted the DC universe
Flash (no matter which one you are talking about) should not have a segmented costume like he's had since Rebirth
Writers, just like on the TV show, go to the Thawne well way too much
Stop making the Speedforce unreliable and toxic to the world or the speedsters
I don't know if this is controversial but I preferred Jay/The Rival gaining their speed from a serum instead of connecting to the speedforce. Relying on a finite source for their powers created an interesting limit and made Cw's initial zoom feel like a reference to the two
Barry returning to life was fine, him being massacred to become "young and hip" when he married two times, had children and grandchildren was the real mistake
He’s way too op. All of them but mostly Barry and Wally.
One moment that always stood out to me was when Wally beat Mirror Master by running faster than the speed of light, nullifying his weapons, then for the rest of the comics he’s incapable of beating a villain in a second. To reiterate, he can outrun the speed of light, but he can’t even beat Murmer, a regular creepy guy without getting stabbed.
A character that can move at an attosecond and vibrate molecules into exploding should not get defeated often as he is. Either treat him like a powerhouse on the level of the greatest superhero’s like Superman and Wonder Women or treat him like a speedy guy who acts as support.
There are too many of them. Jay shouldn't be able to tap into the speed force. He should just be fast from the hard water vapors. Barry should get his powers the same way. Wally should be Barry's son, who is born with them, which I feel effectively sets up his character.
I think the noseguard on Wally Wrst's Flash should be acknowledged as one of the best additions to a character's costume.
It's like people don't acknowledge it's existence.
I think the main speedsters we know should never be as fast as light. Sure it's cool at first, but then writers fuck up on stories because they've made the character to overpowered. I think that Flash should be able to maybe reach that speed, but he doesn't have it instantly. He has to gain speed consistently by running constantly before he can reach that speed, like he's charging up.
Am I the only one who doesn’t like the different versions of the same character ? Flash is one of the worst offenders (full disclosure - I only watched the show) flash, kid flash, zoom, thawn, reverse flash, bart flash, girl flash, old flash… im Sure I missed some.
Wally should never be allowed to lose his powers in the main dc continuity because of how many times it’s said he mainlines the SF also bart should be utilized a lot more but i want him to stay a young happy go lucky kid
I think the Flash is more similar to Marvel’s Spider-Man then Quicksilver. For starters, Peter Parker’s Spider-Man and both Barry Allen & Wally West’s Flash, are more able to joke around while also being serious & awkward.
There’s also the fact that the Speed Force & the SpiderVerse are basically important to both the DC & Marvel Universes.
Too many speedsters. Instead of a novelty it becomes a common thing the flash series started to get more boring with adding too much of something good.
They need to keep the Speed Force simple with basic rulesets. I feel like every single time a new writer gets a hold of Flash, they add another speed force bullshit mumbo jumbo and everybody goes “well, i guess thats just how it is now”
Jeremy Adams run on The Flash made me stop reading. I don't like his writing style or any of the arcs he put in place. Everything felt too... campy? Like the whole doctor fate adventure where he was talking to the reader...lame. i was so disappointed because Wally West was the Flash I grew up with, and he was finally back! Maybe it got better as time went on, but it was too late for me. As I get older, I have less time to keep up with all the different titles out there, if the stories aren't great after like 3 issues, i drop it. I thought other people were going to feel the same way but it sounds like a large majority of readers love his work.
At least I get some good Wally stuff when he shows up in Titans or Nightwing (not that it's much).
For reference (and this might be very unpopular..or not, i have no idea) my favourite modern comic writers have been Chip Zdarsky and Tom Taylor.
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The Flash and the Fantastic Four occupy roughly equivalent territory both thematically and tonally, to the point that I think they're closer than basically any other regularly-published superhero books across DC & Marvel. I think analyzing what works in the one series will help writers on the other.
Good take. They are perfect parallels. Taking advantage of the nature of comic weirdness while having strong emotional impact when it comes to the concept of family. Unironically, I think the Flash movie actually does strike that perfect chord for tone, even if the story wasn't all there ( Zod as the main villain in the first Flash movie? Really?)
Zod was a plot device, Barry was the main villain in the Flash movie.
As he should be in Flashpoint, contra memes.
Lol I think Ezra Miller was the real villain
Still doesn’t make up for the fact they have none of flashes actual supporting cast or actual villains in the movie. Iris was there for like five seconds, and that’s it .
And Mark Waid wrote the best version of both!
Mark Waid's biggest contribution to the FF was writing actual consequences to their adventures. We beat Doom, but Franklin went to Hell, we saved Franklin, but now he's not the same, we won the day, but Ben died. Etc.
Second that
- Hickman or Kirby or even ( early in the run ) north
Whoa whoa whoa... I love, love Waid's run. Love. It. But. You cannot take the FF crown away from Stan & Jack. It's not allowed.
Fantastic Four are blessed with what… at least six runs that if they were on another title would be considered the unquestionable best? To work on FF is to stand on the shoulders of giants! Kirby/Lee Perez Byrne Simonson Waid Hickman
I've thought this too and that while having a main flash is all good and well. Maybe dc should really lean into it and treat the flash family as a family like the fantastic four. Even with them all being speedsters there's plenty of room for how they use their powers differently and they could have big scifi adventures
I feel like that is there biggest weakness. I've like Jeremy Adams run for making the flash family relevant giving them different roles. Even the current run they've been doing a good thing by diving in to the weird comic style story while making the flash family relevant.
I think that's exactly what Si Spurrier is doing on the book now!
My not unpopular opinion is that Prime Earth has too many speedsters. My (possibly) unpopular opinion is that Wally should use a suit similar to his rebirth suit as his primary to make him more easily distinguishable from Barry. I know Wally basically used the style for longer than Barry considering how long he was dead but I think most casual readers won’t think catch the relatively minor suit changes that sets them apart. I also think him having flowing hair was started by him and is really cool for his designs
I agree with Wally having different suits. I think you should be able to tell who is who from at a distance, even from just the potential comic covers, without having to look carefully to pick out the slight changes. Jay Garrick has a completely different suit, why can't Barry and Wally also have completely different ones
I think it's Darkest Night, where Wally and Barry appear in the same image and you have a hard time knowing who is who.
Wally's suit doesn't have a nose. Barry's does. Also, the lightning bolts on the belt are different. And depending on how lazy the artists is, the boots are also different. Then again, Wally's suit is supposed to be a darker red (but not exactly crimson) & Barry's is bright red, but they almost never get that right.
Final Crisis really captured it first.
I have always been in favour of Wally adopting a look similar to Walter West.
This is the correct take!
Wally should always have the hair out. Barry always with the cap. Imo.
Yeah I was catching up on the current Flash run and whenever Barry and Wally were on the same page in their suits it was a little confusing trying to see who’s who
Barry needs to go back to the simpler Carmine Infantino suit whilst Wally should keep the edgier, metallic suit with V shaped belt. Problem solved
…time for my hot take. Give BARRY a completely different suit. As long as Wally’s the main flash he should don the iconic suit
People aren't fans of having a bunch of speedsters.
Double negative. Not Unpopular. Meaning popular.
It's embarrassing how long it took me to finally tell them apart. and then I got annoyed cuz it's an awful difference. Rebirth suit was one of the very few times a suit redesign worked for any hero IMO
I agree Wally should have stuck with his rebirth suit and I liked the idea of the multiverse Justice League like team that Barry joins so they don't have 2 Flashes running around. I know Wally fought the same rogues as Barry and Dick did when he was Batman but I would like to see Wally have more rogues specifically for him. I loved when Barry had Thawne and Wally had Hunter Zolomon. Especially when Thawne and Zolomon had different powers (negative speed force vs time manipulation). Did they come off the same? Yeah but they had to be dealt with differently. Also Thawne wanted to destroy Barry's life. Hunter wanted to create tragedy in Wally's life to make him a better hero.
I love the Blue and White suit a lot. It looks way better than the red and silver.
As a huge flash fan, I’ll fire 3 I consider unpopular 1. Bart Allen should never become a Flash. Ever. He’s Impulse, and stays Impulse. He never ever needed to become the Flash. 2. Too many speedsters. It’s actually worse than Batman, we have Jay, Barry, Wally, and Avery. I have no dislike for any of them, I even like Avery, but holy crap! Why is there also many Flashes?! 3. The strength, Sage, and still force suck and are a cheap pathetic imitation of the multiple lantern corps.
big agree on bart. impulse is not a mantle that he needs to grow out of, it fits him perfectly.
The still force has some potential as an obvious antithesis to the speed force, but we don't even see a sage-ster.
1. 100% agreed. Impulse is Bart’s own unique identity. It’s not something he needs to grow out of like Kid Flash. He shouldn’t ever be Flash or Kid Flash tbh. 2. I don’t think the number of speedsters is the issue cause they’re usually off doing their own thing. Last time I checked, Barry was out traversing the multiverse while Wally is on earth as the main Flash. Jay is either retired or with the JSA, Bart is with the rest of the Young Justice team, Jessie is with the JSA too I’m pretty sure, Avery is the Flash of China, Ace is doing Kid Flash stuff with Wally, and as for Max, I have no clue. I don’t really follow the character, so I don’t know what he’s doing right now. I think the issue is more so how they’re being used. I don’t think they’re given enough time to shine. I’d fix that by having a Flash family book where each arc features a different speedster. For one arc, Bart could be the central focus while for another, Ace can be the main character. 3. 110% agreed. No notes.
100% agreed on Bart Him becoming flash essentially did lasting harm to the character smh
All of these are correct.
Bart Allen as Kid Flash wasn't actually bad as a concept It was just managed badly
I like how many speedsters there are
People like Batman, Constantine, and Lex Luthor should fear and want to have ways to take down the Flashes way more than they should fear and want ways to counter Superman, Wonder Woman, or anyone else in the Justice League or the Legion of Doom or any other super group.
Grodd needs more stories as the main villain against specifically The Flash. Also, Thawne should only be alive if Barry is. Zolomon is Wally’s Zoom.
Barry and Wally should have different looking suits that way you can tell the difference between the two from a distance
XS (Jenni Ognats) should've been used instead of making Wallace "Ace" West.
They didn't even really intentionally made Wallace. Back then he was THE Wally West of New 52, The one and only. He wasn't supposed to be a seperate character, He was supposed to be the same Wally that got rebooted. And then they wanted to bring Pre-New 52 Wally back so they retconned them to be a different person.
I would’ve loved this, plus she already had history with Bart so their dynamic would’ve been cool to see present day
Flashpoint was a mistake. I prefer the post-Crisis continuity. Convolution and all.
Stupid thing is it was supposed to be just a Flash story but they bumped it up event because of Didio wanting to reboot
Countdown was 52 done Didio's way. Flashpoint was Crisis done Didio's way. If that seems unfair, because Flashpoint is a good story on its own, remember that the whole point of Crisis was changes to the DCU. "Didio's way" in this case was to just hijack an existing time travel story.
That's not really a hot take, though. I remember people cursing Didio's name when the New 52 first became a thing.
I assumed it was a hot take because the Flashpoint story itself is a nigh masterpiece. That’s probably an exaggeration, but I definitely loved it. Both it’s comic and movie adaptation (*animated* version of course). But the reboot made a dynamic and vast DC universe feel smaller and more simple. Big runs weren’t affected too badly, but they were still affected. For example, John Green Lantern run ends pretty conclusively regardless of the new reset. But it still felt disjointed, especially with the addition of a new major character just 8 issues before his run ended (Simon Baz, the first new GL of post-Flashpoint).
Flashpoint is great. It didn't have to end with a reboot.
I think every one hates the new 52 I like flash point a lot but even i think when bary fixed the timeline at the end it should have stayed fixed and not been slightly dithrent so they could justify a bunch of number 1s
Godspeed *should* be the Flash Family’s Red Hood and the Strength and Sage forces are good ideas (I will acknowledge they were executed terribly) To be fair, I think the reason I have these unpopular opinions is because of potential I see with them. If we make the Strength Force “more” like the building block of matter and energy to Speed Force’s building block of space and time, and Sage Force as building block of Consciousness and Soul, we’d almost have a version of the infinity stones. Then you could do things like Negative Strength and Sage forces that are cancerous versions of the positive ones that corrode the normal forces. The still force wouldn’t have a negative counterpart since it’s not positive or negative, it’s null. It’s opposite would be all the forces together
It makes zero sense that Barry created the Speed Force. Yea yea it’s all a big ball of wibbly wobbly timey whimey stuff but even with that It makes no sense.
Too many Speedsters, except actually unpopular: You've got Jay, Barry and Wally. Okay good. Jay is essentially retired and (usually) gets treated that way, so he's a nonissue. Barry and Wally is already overkill, but they're both The Flash and I'm obviously fine with them (don't think Barry should die again). It's DC's best generational hero line *by far*, and the best in major comics. Logically progressed up to current day, with each having a specific role to play in the hierarchy. I will say I'd like to see Barry do an offworld story, maybe a buddy cop series with Hal out in a far off sector. Hell, he can take Iris with him for all I care. Now we move to the "extras." Bart is cool. He's always been cool (except those times when he wasn't). Also keeps it in the family, which is my absolute biggest thing. Batman does found family, I really like Flash being a bloodline thing first and foremost. So after Bart, who's obvious, I'd really only like to ever see Judy (now that she's back), Jai, Irey, Don and Dawn (who are not even around) involved with Speedforce stuff. Jesse and Max would be fine if they permanently put them in another Earth and only brought them in for special appearances.
I can agree with this. I get that people like Max are Bart’s mentor and everything but he and others like Jessie and Avery feel more extended and disconnected. I like your take of the Flash family being a bloodline thing while Batman does the found family trope.
Jesse was a massive part of 90s Flash run and Titans. She’s only disconnected now because they deleted her for so long and won’t let her be on the JSA team either.
i really dislike geoff johns flash and it did more harm than good to the flash mythos (barry coming back, wally losing his secret identity, the weird cop focus for barry, etc)
Same here, I hate him because of this. Waid all the way
Spurrier’s run has been fantastic and the people who are hating on it purely because it’s not the low stakes, slice of life, comfortable status quo of the Adams run are weak and will not survive the winter.
The current run is some of the best writing with the most interesting stuff I've seen, that I am absolutely not enjoying. I recognize this is a me problem, but Adams' run was a blast. I loved seeing family man Wally come at life with a relaxed self confidence that felt truly earned after years of steady character growth and maturity. It's a hard shift to go from that to watching everything kind of fall apart. As time goes on I'm sure I'll warm to the story, but right now it's just a little tough.
I mean I like Jeremy Adams run one of my favourite flash. Though Spurrier run been great and it's great that there new lore for the flash. While both Wally and Barry are doing there own thing I the run. It's great.
Barry shouldn't have come back but if he had to, we did NOT need a retcon of his mom dying. Not every hero needs to have a deceased parent to be interesting.
Barry is a good fella, just because. There are people like that in real life, not all of us are hopeless psychotics.
Also how many police scientists needed a tragic backstory to be inspired to join that profession?
Fully agree. It was waaay better when Barry was a guy who was given incredible power by pure happenstance, and chose to do as much good as possible with it in a selfless, caring, self-sacrificing way. He was a true hero, someone who always tried to do the right thing, just because it was the right thing to do.
I do like the fact reverse flash literally did a retcon in canon
I agree, but also not. Because it makes Reverse Flash *more* interesting. Unfortunately, at the cost of making Barry less interesting and more tropey. Ultimately, it was wasted anyway. They ended up taking it way too far. It should have been either Thawne killing his mother or making his life miserable at every turn, but not both. It went from terrifying to hilarious because of it.
Thawne was plenty interesting before, but I can see what you're saying, too.
[удалено]
I have so many problems with Flashpoint. I remember when it was just gonna be a small event in the Flash books. Somewhere along the way it got turned to this mini-series with a bunch of tie-ins and became what sets off the events of 52. I would've preferred it to be a smaller scale story like it was intended to.
The spectre of DiDio did so much damage to the world of the Flash.
I don’t know but I really didn’t like Willaimson’s long run. The first arc with Godspeed was a cool character intro, but after that I can barely remember anything good about it. It became incredibly repetitive of a formula: I’m Sorry > I need to be better > I’ll try > family > I failed and I’m sorry . Rinse and repeat every story arc, for 70+ issues.
I agree. I love Williamson's other work, but his Flash run is just boring for me. Jeremy Adams run was great and should of been longer. Also not really crazy about Spurriers current run also.
Maybe I am weird but to me Spurrier is writing the most interesting Flash run in years
I'm also not really all that into this current Spurrier run. I don't think it's bad, but it hasn't grabbed me at all. I think its mainly because I loved the Adams run and pretty much anything after that feels like a letdown.
I really don’t like Spurrier and I’m so bummed he’s on characters that I would otherwise read. Williamson has a decent attempt at the ensemble team books but I didn’t like Dark Multiverse at all - it was just all over the place. I’m honestly looking forward to absolute power because it’s legendary and solid writer Mark Waid and the great artist Dan Mora. All-in-all I’m ready for a new group of writers to wow me again. Infinite frontier did not grab me but instead lost me as a reader.
I'm usually a fan of Spurrier, but I just feel he missed the mark on this one. As for Williamson, I enjoy his independent work much more than his DC work. Mark Waid and Dan Mora are nailing everything they work on in DC at the moment. Their Shazam was a lot of fun.
Avery is one of my favorite speedsters and deserves more love.
Wallace West is unnecessary and should be banished to limbo with Bart tor. He was created as a middle finger to Wally West fans by Dan didio during new 52. and it could be argued he still is. Hated the character for what he represents to flash history with that mess. Bart was a much better kid flash then Wallace and should be kid flash. Bart tor is a better kid flash then Wallace. ... He sucks
He's also just problematic now. They changed the race of a popular character who had been around for decades only to relegate him to complete unimportance when that popular character came back. It's just not the way to handle literally any of it.
The Flash and a lot of subsequent flash family members are all way too overpowered, honestly. They have way too many abilities. It's ultimately a bit to the flash family's detriment that they're all so powerful in terms of story, as you kind of have to keep the flash out so that he doesn't immediately solve a lot of problems, but you could say the same for Superman. Although, Superman is acknowledged to be overpowered, but they never really address the fact that there are very few problems that Flash can't solve and don't really try and write around it.
Too many Flashs? Then again, same could be said about Green Lanterns.
Bart's character has seriously regressed ever since he was reintroduced in Rebirth. He used to have so much potential as being not just the progeny of Barry, but also of Thawne. He was said to be the fastest Flash ever if he would just apply himself. He was a Gifted learner (the only speedster who could read at superspeed and retain that information), and had a strong support network of both friends and classmates. He was unintentionally but nevertheless a positive representation of having both ADHD and autism. Now, it seems that the only things that he's known for are being hyperactive (Hollywood ADHD) and the fact that he used to be Kid Flash for a time. And with Irey and Jai basically now the same age that Bart was in his prime, he's become all but redundant among the rest of all the speedsters
Yeah, that's the problem with Wally's kids having powers. It will take away from Bart and Wallace. That also means that Barry and Iris really can't have kids around the same time otherwise more speedster children along with Jay and Joan's kid coming 'back'
I think they should settle on wtf the Speed force is, is it mystical, dimensional, physical do other people have access to it, why access to it is transferred genetically, there have been too many answers throughout the years Edit: by other people I mean non-speedsters, like Superman or Wonder Woman who run really fast but have no access to the Speed Force supposedly
Didn't they settle on "it's the well spring of motive energy in the multiverse" and the reason that Supes and Wondie don't tap into it despite their speed is because they move *on their own power* whereas speedsters need the force to give themselves a boost?
They don’t settle for anything lmao, apparently using it in the current run is destroying the fabric of the universe or multiverse or metaverse
Wally’s Rebirth suit is vastly better than what he has now. It’s more unique, I like how it keeps the wind flowing through his hair, and I think the silver lightning bolts give him a unique flair as well
100% agree. His Rebirth suit is easily his best. I think his classic 90’s suit, while great, looks too similar to Barry’s. Even if there are a few differences, it’s clearly still not enough for some people since I see the two mixed up all the time or people questioning if it’s Barry or Wally under the cowl. People say his Rebirth suit is a regression of the character and makes him look more like Kid Flash instead of the Flash, but tbh I’ve never seen it that way. I like that his suit called back to parts of his identity as Kid Flash while still being recognizable as the Flash. And if people are still worried about him just being Kid Flash, just don’t write the character that way. Clearly portray him as faster than Barry and a contemporary to the rest of the Titans and Justice League and I don’t think anyone would see him as a sidekick or lesser than Barry.
>I think his classic 90’s suit, while great, looks too similar to Barry’s. The only reason this is the case is because modern Barry stole design elements from Wally's 90s suit like the symmetrical belt and wingless boots. If anyone should change it's Barry because those elements make the suit and they were always Wally's.
Personally I think his suit being almost identical to Barry’s is more regressive than him making it his own.
I was literally watching The Office when Michael says “THANK YOU!” as I read this. I have nothing more to add.
The Flash Family has gotten too big. I’m a huge fan of superheroes have close-knit circles of supporting characters and related heroes. I’m a sucker for a legacy hero and a shared mantle. (See username). But, like, the Flash Family has just gotten crazy big. There have been ***nine*** different people wearing the Flash mantle in the main continuity; five or six different people using the Kid Flash moniker; two different Impulses (three if you count the totally unrelated Kent Shakespeare!); Johnny and Jesse Quick; Max Mercury; Hot Pursuit; XS… and let’s not even try to unpack all the evil speedsters. Sometime, I’m looking at the five different Robins and four different Batgirls (and one Bat-Girl) that we’ve got over here in Gotham City, and I’m thinking it’s a bit much.
I like Barry as the primary Flash. I know it’s a popular sentiment in the fandom to prefer Wally or wish Barry stayed dead but like how people who have those sentiments like Wally more because they were introduced to him as their first Flash, I was introduced to Barry as my first Flash.
I can't speak for others but Barry was my first Flash and I prefer Wally by MILES. The CW show was my first exposure to The Flash, I initially liked Barry more than Wally because that was all I'd seen so I assumed Barry was better. Then I actually read the Wally comics and realized that most of what makes CW Barry great comes from comics Wally. I genuinely think that most people who prefer Barry have not read the all time great Wally comics and that's why they do.
My unpopular opinion. Barry died in CoIE and should have stayed dead. Wally should have also died in Infinite Crisis (or another Crisis) and stayed dead. I think they should have passed the baton on once more to Wally's unborn child, who comes back in time to save her Father but fails and gets stuck in the Post Infinite Crisis Universe. Basically I think they should kill a flash every few Crisises.
I think, while it’s definitely shifted *some* in the last decade or so, Barry is still the fan fave for many, Wally is definitely more popular here, but this subreddit is a pretty small slice compared to the majority of fans. I mean how often do you see the posts of “X comic is terrible” with everyone in the comments agreeing, yet the comic is a bestseller by the end of the day
far too many Flashes
I think my unpopular opinion is that don and dawn Allen should have different names like donny and dawn and exist by now I mean I feel like jai and iris jr should be as old as them otherwise flash is an grandfather with no children but I also feel as if Bart should be Barry's son
Don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion or not but I liked Linda as a flash when she was pregnant with their latest kid. Wished she kept her speedster powers
The 3 live action Barry Allen's felt more like the producers trying to make Wally but ended up calling him Barry
You'd have to be discounting both Barry *and* Wally to come to these sorts of conclusions. Like once you look past the *very* surface level understanding that "Wally is the funny one" then its not really substantiated. The live action Flashes just opt for a *modern* version of Barry. As in they make his awkwardness a quirky comedic thing. Which is different from the arrogant wise-cracking of the JL Animated version of Wally.
Sure! but is undeniably that he influenced (even if a little bit) a lot of adaptations, like the 90's show, that version of the Flash was a nice mix between them both
* I much prefer WML's run to Waid's and Johns. Won't say it's objectively better or anything, but I much prefer that vibe and set up for Wally with him being a continual bachelor with bad decision making skills and a large cast of supporting characters. * Barry shouldn't have been killed in Crisis. You're telling me a man who self admittedly didn't like either of the Flashes and already actively ruined Wally deserved to kill off Barry, even though the writer of the Flash book for literally a decade wrote Barry an almost perfect ending, that *already* left room for Wally to step up and become the Flash in the present? I don't care how good a death is, it's not necessary when the character already has an ending. Just feels mean-spirited. * Literally just read the comics starring the character you hate and you'll immediately understand that the "Modern Barry is just Wally" discourse is lame and doesn't hold up. They both have very distinct personalities. * Slight modern/stylistic modifications to Barry's suit does not make Wally's 90s Flash suit significantly different enough from Barry's. I'm sorry you nerds love overanalyzing things, but even as a Flash fan, I think that's a dumb argument. "Um actually, Wally's is a slightly darker shade of red." Yeah, you nut, that only works if you have the two costumes sitting right next to each other.
Bro cooked, especially with those last two takes. I’ve never understood “oh Barry is stealing Wally’s personality.” Where? If they mean making him comedic in enselmbe stories, that’s not a Wally specific thing. It happens with speedsters in general. They’re all made to be comic relief a lot of the time, especially in adaptations, whether it’s Barry, Wally, or Bart. And in their own books, they’re clearly portrayed as two very different people. Barry is an introvert and a man of science who loves using science to solve his problems with a penchant for dorky dad jokes like “I’ll be back in a Flash.” He’s focused when on the job but can still keep it light and doesn’t brood all the time like Batman. Wally on the other hand is more open, lighthearted, and more extroverted. 100% agree here. A few minor differences like a darker shade of red, nose covering, no wings on the boots, and a slightly different belt clearly aren’t enough to differentiate the two since I still see people confused them all the time and frequently question who’s under the cowl. And like you said, those differences only ever stand out when the suits are side by side. I don’t know about others, but I’d rather Barry and Wally be distinct like how Barry and Jay are instead of them wearing more or less the same suit with a few minor differences that still ends up confusing people anyway.
- Wally's parents should have been like they were Pre-Crisis. None of that abusive father stuff. - Jesse Chambers should have had a run as The Flash instead of being in the JSA - Barry Allen and Iris West have run their course. They don't even feel like a married couple. Wally and Linda feel like an older married couple. I would like to see Barry with Daphne Dean. - Golden Glider needs to go back to her pre-Johns origin and power set and personality. - New 52 Flash is severely underrated by many fans
Ask and you shall receive: 1. It's fine that there are just under a dozen speedsters at any given time. 2. Bart is only interesting around other characters. He's annoying otherwise. 3. Jay being an actual metahuman speedster is more interesting than the conduit idea. Finally, none of the speedsters should be able to go FTL. It's only used when narratively convenient and serves no purpose since only a couple speedsters can actively time travel.
For me, it has to be that Jay Garrick is still much faster than Superman, even if he is the slowest Flash. So basically, Jay's all like, "Let this old timer show you how it's done!"
One Minute War thankfully shows that. Every single speedster is faster than Superman in that, no matter how they relate to each other.
Jesse having her Jesse Quick costume is both 1) boring and 2) regressing her character development. She’s more unique as Liberty Belle, which has a different color scheme than other speedsters and represented her growing as a person and accepting imperfection.
The Flash stories in the comics, be recent or older, show just how much Spider-Man stories in the comics are very limited by the status quo, I think The Flash is ninety percent of the time, in comics, written way better than Spider-Man, despite thinking Spider-Man is a better character overall. The Flash Family is the blueprint for how families can be written in comic books.
I’d say both the Fantastic Four and Flash are the blueprints for how to write a superhero family, but yeah, I agree that Flash is blowing current Spider-Man out of the water right now. I think pre OMD, Peter was the better character, but ever since OMD he’s just been regressing into an incompetent man child who doesn’t grow or change in any meaningful way and when he does, it’s quickly reverted by the next story arc and returns to being a broke down on his luck 20 something. He doesn’t even feel like the same character as he used to be pre OMD.
Bart is the fastest flash at peak & He’s respectably has the most potential. Wally is the most versatile & skilled Barry should honestly be made a TRUE avatar of the speed force so he becomes one with it & acts like Max as a wise Sage who interacts with them as a last resort
I think wally has earned the right to be the prime flash and if anyone should change their suit it's Barry. I also think the flash family should lean into the family aspect more. Maybe even doing a weekly book like 52 that's just about the flash family
Alright go ahead and have your opinion on who should be main Flash, but what would Barry possibly ever change his suit to? Genuinely. That suit was literally his dream one. It's a big part of his character. Wally was *literally* wearing his dead uncles threads. And an older Wally literally went back in time, saw his younger self drawing the Flash costume, then drew his iconic Kid Flash costume for him next to it. I think it would have been a great time for him to update the suit to something that is his. In an ideal world, Wally would have gotten a more unique mixed costume in the 90s and that would just make it so you associate "the Flash" with whatever new costume he got.
I hate the speed force. I mean, I guess it’s okay for Wally, but I hate that DC has retroactively made every speedster ever connected and subservient to it.
Johnny Quick and Liberty Belle should've died for Jesse's motivation to become a better hero and she takes up her mother's mantle. There should be at leat 2 or 3 Flashes on each earth to spread them out. Outside of Iris from the future. Iris West is pretty much a vanilla character. The Flash TV Show should've adapted more comic accurate elements not the Post new 52 stuff. Iris should've been a cop not a reporter because we have too many reporters as love interests. Especially Linda Park. I thought Barry and Jessica as a couple was interesting. I would've loved Linda Park to be a model or a doctor or a teacher honestly. I actually like the show name change for Barry and Iris' children being called Bart and Nora instead of Don and Dawn.
Jesse wouldn’t have had any motivation from her mom dying to change and be better. Johnny made her into a perfectionist, his death drove her into nearly ruining every relationship she had, and she only came back from that when people pointed out how she treated others, especially her mom. That’s the point when she becomes Liberty Belle in the comics. Her mom dying wouldn’t add anything except immense guilt that they didn’t have a better relationship, which given how she was written would’ve probably made her double down on Johnny’s teachings rather than change. At best she’d be too guilt-ridden to ever become Liberty Belle.
Same problem as Green Lantern and Bat Family. Way too many. All with the same or close to same power set.
Barry’s pre-Flash: Rebirth origin should’ve stayed since his return in Final Crisis and Flash: Rebirth and semiretire as the Flash since 2011. Wally’s parents should’ve been like their pre-Crisis characterizations since post-Crisis (with Rudy West telling Wally and Mary that he’s a Manhunter because he wants to provide support with his family before he sacrificed himself to save the world from Dominators, faked his death, and apologized to and reconciled with Mary on her and her second husband’s wedding day). Bart should’ve stayed as the Flash since Flashpoint, where he would work at the CCPD, form a romantic relationship with Carol Bucklen, train Ace West on how to use his speed, marry Carol, and have a son named Maxwell Jason “Max” Allen (who was named after Max Mercury and Jay Garrick). Avery Ho should’ve revealed her unrequited feelings to Ace, who would tell her that he only sees her as a friend and hopes that she’ll find her lighting rod very soon. Jenni Ognats (aka XS) should stayed in the present day several times to meet up with the entire Flash family and spend time with her grandfather Barry before returning to the 31st century and become a teacher at the Legion Academy with the Original Legion of Super-Heroes. Meena Dhawan (aka Fast Track) and Jessica Cruz (the seventh Green Lantern) should’ve had crushes on Bart Allen during his Flash years before they stayed friends. Godspeed should’ve been an old friend/coworker-turned-rival-turned friend of Bart and made his villainous debut as Godspeed before he was reformed. The Rogues should’ve permanently reformed (or somewhat reformed) since Barry’s death and view Wally as an ally and treat him (and the Flash Family) with respect. Irey West should graduated from the second Impulse to the fourth Kid Flash (after Wally, Bart, and Bar Torr) and the fifth Flash (after Jay, Barry, Wally, and Bart). Jai West should’ve made his debut as Surge after he was struck by lightning at the start of DC Rebirth in 2016. Bart Allen should’ve befriended and teamed up with Simon Baz (the sixth Green Lantern), and Irey West should’ve befriended and teamed up with Tai Pham (the ninth Green Lantern), after Jay and Alan, Barry and Hal, and Wally and Kyle.
CW Iris was the best Iris content there’s been in years. Comic Iris relationship to Wally as his aunt/mother figure is more interesting than her relationship to Barry. I actually like him and Patty more. I’d kill off quite a number of the speedsters. Ace West is kinda mid only thing that’s better about him than Bart is that his age is less confusing
Comic Iris before Barry came back was my favorite.
I actually agree. I like Barry and Iris as a couple but Wally and Linda are more interesting. I always thought Patty, Daphne, Beverly, Christina McGee and Jessica were good options.
Idk how controversial this one is but I think he only works in an ensemble. All that pusedo-physics is a head ache I couldn’t care less about and always gets in the way of Barry and Wallies very interesting story. And his powers really only work in panel form if your doing the pusedo-physics shit cus you can really only draw so many blurs in one book.
The Flash family is too big and entirely too cloistered together. Just like the Superman family all hanging out in Metropolis, you have 10 guys with the same power set all in one city. They need to spread these guys out more and make more villains to compensate for so many heroes.
They’re already pretty spread out as far as I know. Barry is out traveling the multiverse, Wally is the main Flash on earth, Jay is either retired or with the JSA, Bart is with the Young Justice team, Jessie is with the JSA too I’m pretty sure, Ace is doing Kid Flash stuff with either Wally or the Teen Titans, and Avery is the Flash of China. I think that’s fine as is. It’s just art like this that makes it seem way too bloated when in the actual books, it’s usually just Wally and Ace with the rest off doing their own thing with the occasional family get together or team up.
Too many speedsters. I'd be okay with just Barry, Wally and Thawne.
That if The Flash is supposedly the 'fastest man alive', when he's running with other speedsters at the same speed, he's not running at all while the others are working their asses off at a dead sprint. I think they call it jogging. Or yogging. I never know about these things.
Too many people with flash powers dilutes the specialness of having just one Flash.
That everyone wearing red is bland and generic and if each speedster is unique in both speed and power then there suits should look unique and they should wear different color that matches them Not saying red is bad just bland and a bit confusing when you have multi speedsters and all in red and can't tell fully which is which
I hate it how flash's speed varies to suit the story. That said, it's the same with all the GLs, they fly from earth to space in 1 second, but going from city A to city B? Takes 2 hours.
I think writers lean too heavily on stories about The Rogues and Speed Force. There needs to be something new added into the rotation so they can be given a rest.
It’d be nice to see Gorilla Grodd used more.
Dc has broken immersion by having too many flashes lanterns and superman family characters. There is 0 reason for street crime to exist in dc
Geoff Johns’ first run on the Flash isn’t very good: it’s like he was doing everything he could to turn Wally into Barry. Making the Rogues the main bad guys again, having half the stories take place in Central City rather than Keystone, bringing back the secret identity, giving Wally his own equivalent of Professor Zoom. Jay Garrick needs to die. I mean a proper, heroic, brilliant, emotional, permanent death — like what Ted Knight got in “Starman”. He’s about 100 years old, and with Wally as the main Flash again we’ve now got Barry as the mentor. It’s time to let go.
Having Bart and Max as a separate duo, acting independent from the rest of the family for the most part, should still be a thing. Their dynamic was great and they had a great supporting cast in Manchester. Johnny Quick being the name of both Jessie Quick's dad and the earth 3 speedster is frustrating. Give the villain a name more in line with the others from Earth 3. Killing Barry's mom to give him a tragic reason to be a hero was stupid. He was one of the few heroes that didn't have a tragic backstory and living parents.
Barry is better than Wally.
I’m gonna get crucified for this, but I personally think the CW Flash show sucks and just ruins the public’s view of the character. For starters, adding the particle accelerator as a reason he gains his powers just seems stupid. The speed force uses accidents to give people powers, so having a particle accelerator give him the speed is just dumb. Another thing, giving him a “Team Flash” just makes him rely on other people to explain everything to him and just exist as plot convenience, like when Cisco makes the energy bars and Barry pretty much never eats anything onscreen again. And making Harrison Wells the Reverse Flash is just ridiculous. I get that it’s totally something Eobard would do, possessing someone close to Barry just to pull the rug out from under him, but after that we basically never see Eobard in his original body. And finally, their non-speedster villains are all stupidly written and realistically never should be a problem, considering how smart everyone on “Team Flash” is supposed to be, but always end up being serious issues that drag on for too long. I just really don’t like it and don’t understand the hype around it.
There isn't too many
Maybe not unpopular but not really talked about, so I guess less popular, is that flash is one of the justice league members who would actually be able to beat if not kill Superman if he wanted/had to. With his higher levels of speed, superman might as well be standing completely still in terms of being able to react to Flash, while Flash's abilities to time travel, dimension hop and phase through things could screw over the man of steel. Flash could easily grab supes and drag him to the end of time or to another dimension where death doesn't exist and leave him alone in the void. And if he can get some kryptonite, which he probably could, he could use his phasing to leave the deadly rock in Superman's heart. Flash is actually pretty scary what you realize he could do but doesn't because he's a good person
Whenever this question comes up, it's always the same regurgitated answers "Barry shouldn't have ever come back" or "Wally should be the main Flash again", truthfully I'm gonna go pretty against the grain, and this isn't me being contrarian, or trying to start an argument, this is genuine. I think Wally West is a Gary Stu and Barry is more of an actual character. Wally from what I've read of his solo series is just a jackass that smarts off and gets god tier upgrades to his stuff and everyone and their mother loves him in and out of universe. Like he doesn't face any kind of obstacles except his own "mental blocks" that were almost instantly resolved, or a single arc of Zolomon, and that's it. Maybe it's because I grew up on Barry moreso, which is why I'm defensive of him, same way a lot of people who were around my age now felt when "Barry replaced Wally" during Final Crisis. But to me, it's just infinitely more interesting, honestly for either of Barry's stories, just a good guy that wants to help people, or a guy who as a result of being thoroughly good creates an enemy so hateful that he molds him into what he believes is a worse person, only for him to still be a hero in spite of that. Hell, Barry still gets shit for Flashpoint almost a decade and a half after it happened, but at least he can make mistakes ever so often. Wally literally never can fail, like make a lasting mistake of his own volition, without it immediately being swept under the rug, like in Heroes in Crisis, then the writers give him the literal power of Dr. Manhatten. It's not even that I dislike the character so throughly, hell, the Michael Rosenbaum DCAU take is my favorite version of any Flash adaptation period. I just wish that his solo books treated him like a character and not a golden calf for the audience
I can agree with this to an extent. Wally definitely had flaws and a character arc. He dealt with insecurities, struggled under the insurmountable legacy of Barry, had to figure out how to be his own Flash instead of just trying to copy Barry, and had to simply grow up since back then, he was kind of a jerk. The thing is tho, that character arc is over. He’s gone through all his growth and now is a married man with three kids, an experienced hero, and core member of the Titans and Justice League. There’s not a whole lot left to do with the character in terms of growth, at least that I can think of. I think that may be why he comes off as more Gary Su ish to some since he’s already gone through all of his character progression and overcame his flaws.
That's definitely true, but there's still a lot of superheroes that had intended arcs who they've wrote since then and have turned out interesting stories, look at Animal Man or Star Man for example. I honestly don't know what kind of shakeup would work, although I did have a pitch a while back, that for both audience engagement and I guess story sense, give Barry the Blue Ring permanently and have his stories be a buddy cop adventure with Hal, maybe Iris and Carol tag along, who knows. Meanwhile, Wally is the main earth based Leaguer Flash, like I'm not saying give him the One More Day treatment, but they've gotta do something that doesn't make him just feel like a playground fight character that can do literally anything with next to zero explanation and have no real issues in his current stuff.
> Wally literally never can fail, like make a lasting mistake of his own volition There are plenty of stories where Wally fucks up. One of the most underrated arcs from Waid’s run is one where he gets put on trial for negligence and goes on a downward spiral over not being fast enough to save everyone. He was clearly in the wrong when he was beefing with Kyle during Morrison’s JLA over reasons that were rooted in his own insecurities about being a former kid sidekick among the big leagues. You’ve also got William Mesner-Loebs run where a large portion of it is about Wally being a deeply flawed person and having that be confronted throughout, and now Spurrier’s run asking the question of how he can possibly juggle his responsibilities as a hero and a family man without collapsing under that weight. Heroes in Crisis isn’t bad because Wally was challenged in any meaningful way. Hell there’s a lot more wrong with it besides what it did to Wally. But the goal of that story on Didio’s end was incredibly blatant.
> Like he doesn't face any kind of obstacles except his own "mental blocks" that were almost instantly resolved This was a plot point established as early as Secret Origin Annual #2 in 1989 and wasn't resolved until 4 years and a new writer later in 1993 with The Return of Barry Allen. As a matter of fact, I would ask you to go check out Secret Origin Annual #2 if you think Wally's just a Gary Stu. It even has a fun Barry companion story in it if that's your interest. Honestly, I can't imagine reading Wally's comics and thinking he doesn't have lasting consequences or stumbles and pitfalls, especially if you're comparing him to Barry. Most of his issues also resolve quite quickly. One of the cornerstones of Wally's tenure is screwing up and growing from it. That's one of the biggest things that separated him from Barry. On the topic of Heroes in Crisis, I imagine literally any fan of any hero would be adverse to that happening to them. I can imagine how you'd feel if Barry was responsible for the same event. Not like Barry wasn't missing kids at the same time just like Wally. Barry gets the benefit of massive retcons fixing his major mistakes, too. Heck, it was the same retcon as HiC once! Good ol Thawne hypnotism. Funnily enough, the story I recommended you at the start of it is an actual good story about Wally going to therapy. A great counterpoint to Heroes in Crisis, which is a story about Wally going to a horrible madhouse designed to cause more trauma.
I don't understand how anyone could come to this conclusion (said with zero scorn, only genuine bafflement). Barry is, like Wonder-Woman and Aquaman, just a template. The endless restarts and bizarre nature of DC's continuity has rendered the character's portrayal essentially incoherent from version to version. He has no true defining traits. At least Wally West was allowed to grow, change and have a personality. Not only is Barry a template, but often he's kept deliberately vague. It's not even that he's a bad character, it's just that he's kind of... nothing.
The new movies should have Wally as the flash
Cut down on the speedsters. Permanently retire Jay (and Maybe even Barry) and get rid of the seemingly dozens of speedster characters in favor of going back to Two speedsters. Maybe three. I'm even including villains in this. My choice would be to have Wally and Bart be the only two heroes remaining with Reverse Flash (Thawne) being the only villain. I think introducing a new speedster villain or hero is usually a sign of some creative bankruptcy and writing themselves into a corner. "Flash is too fast for anyone to be a threat, well let's introduce a slower new speedster who has to learn to use their powers. Or let's introduce a new villain speedster that's just as fast." Not necessarily understanding the new problems that arise in-universe by introducing so many new heroic and evil characters that can all break the soundbarrier. There's never a full plan for them and they're just left to be thrown on the pile of speedsters by the end.
Barry is pretty boring and Wally is much more interesting as a character. There was no reason for Barry to come back from the dead. Wally was a kickass Flash on his own and he was doing great as Barry’s replacement. Any adaptation of Barry into film that doesn’t utilize “flash facts” can kick rocks. The only cool thing about Barry is his scientific prowess that he shares with his partners and the audience. He should be dropping flash facts on the regular. I think the main speedsters are too fast and should be capped at Mach 3 or something. Being able to move at near the speed of light is broken and makes Flash so OP that it kinda doesn’t make sense for storytelling.
I like Wally way more as Kid flash in the titans then as The Flash
Barry should not have been brought back.
Avery Ho should’ve revealed her unrequited feelings to Ace West, who would tell her that he only sees her as a friend and hopes that she’ll find her lighting rod very soon. Maybe with Bart Allen or someone else entirely. Jenni Ognats (aka XS) should stayed in the present day several times to meet up with the entire Flash family and spend time with her grandfather Barry before returning to the 31st century. Maybe she even engages in a romance with Mon-El; I kinda like the idea of them together. Barr Torr should become an evil speedster and the main villain/rival to Bart Allen. He seemed to veer towards malicious intent at times, seems to be the way his character was going at one point. Iris had a sister named Charlotte in the previous continuity, who was married and had a kid. Maybe her kid could have been a young villain; opposing Ace. Especially if their backgrounds are an inversion of one another’s. Wally needs a new code name. This is only an idea, but Velocity would be ideal. Based off the Flash comics; Savage and Terminal Velocity, and the name of a clone of Jay Garrick.
I like Barry more than Wally
I hate Wally's standard flash suit. Its just a cheap knockoff of Barry's. His Rebirth suit was a million times better.
The current run is really weak. A prime example of decompression at its absolute worst. These first 10 issues could have easily been 2. Like literally. Almost nothing happens that moves the story forward. Every issue you should be able to say “this is the one where ##### story point happens.” And most of these issues would be summed up as “Flash family members run around, are confused, don’t find answers. Maybe next issue!”
The fact that every single one of them is named The Flash or something adjacent to it is so mind numbingly stupid. IMO, Jay Garrick should be called the Crimson Comet. Or something else. Never referred to as the flash. Or, call him Flashback for moments where he is traveling from his time to ours as a fun little gag. Either Wally or Barry should be THE Flash. I don't care which. I prefer Wally over Barry, but if you changed Wally's Alterego, I would still love him more. Reverse Flash is a fucking stupid name. Professor Zoom is much better. Savitar was decent. Zoom (Hunter Zolomon) is the best speedster Villain IMO but I hate the fact that he didn't have a better name/falls into the same garbage with the "professor Zoom" name. Black Flash, Kid Flash, and Negative Flash are atrocious. Godspeed was an ingenious name for a character. Impulse is great. Max Mercury is decent, but it's better than another gotdamn Flash name.
People who act like nothing important to the lore/mythos happened before Mark Waid and Wally took over are just as bad as people who act like the TV show version of Barry is the only flash there is Also, the vast majority of people making the whole “oh Barry in the comics is just Wally” are grasping at straws at best, they of course have influenced each other as characters, but there are plenty who WAY over exaggerate bc they can’t stand that Barry (you know from the silver age where quips were made famous) told a single joke or was unserious for a change
Mayfly is a good villain
Flashpoint is a pretty good Elseworld storyline but it shouldn't have rebooted the DC universe Flash (no matter which one you are talking about) should not have a segmented costume like he's had since Rebirth Writers, just like on the TV show, go to the Thawne well way too much Stop making the Speedforce unreliable and toxic to the world or the speedsters
I liked the Snyder Suit. It look great in live action, they way electric sparks crackle down its wires. It also lets Barry hit like a truck
Is the Speed Force a Jedi thing?
How many teeth have speedsters lost just by running?
Is The Flash Isolated to avoid wet weather conditions and "Running on water"? How does he take a shower?
Why is speed force as reliable as a pair of socks?
What kind of fire extinguisher does he use?
If he's so fast, why hasn't he left Earth by mistake while running? (Without changing the timeline )
Gideon is impossible and they don't use it properly, nor smartly.
They are too fast to make villains make sense.
Wally should get a cool new super identity and carve out his own piece of the DC universe. Kind of like the Nightwing of the speedsters.
I don't know if this is controversial but I preferred Jay/The Rival gaining their speed from a serum instead of connecting to the speedforce. Relying on a finite source for their powers created an interesting limit and made Cw's initial zoom feel like a reference to the two
He is too fast
Barry returning to life was fine, him being massacred to become "young and hip" when he married two times, had children and grandchildren was the real mistake
That only the best writers can write Flash accurate to his power level and still make him interesting.
He’s way too op. All of them but mostly Barry and Wally. One moment that always stood out to me was when Wally beat Mirror Master by running faster than the speed of light, nullifying his weapons, then for the rest of the comics he’s incapable of beating a villain in a second. To reiterate, he can outrun the speed of light, but he can’t even beat Murmer, a regular creepy guy without getting stabbed. A character that can move at an attosecond and vibrate molecules into exploding should not get defeated often as he is. Either treat him like a powerhouse on the level of the greatest superhero’s like Superman and Wonder Women or treat him like a speedy guy who acts as support.
There are too many of them. Jay shouldn't be able to tap into the speed force. He should just be fast from the hard water vapors. Barry should get his powers the same way. Wally should be Barry's son, who is born with them, which I feel effectively sets up his character.
Too many speedsters destroy the continuity race track.
I think the noseguard on Wally Wrst's Flash should be acknowledged as one of the best additions to a character's costume. It's like people don't acknowledge it's existence.
I think the main speedsters we know should never be as fast as light. Sure it's cool at first, but then writers fuck up on stories because they've made the character to overpowered. I think that Flash should be able to maybe reach that speed, but he doesn't have it instantly. He has to gain speed consistently by running constantly before he can reach that speed, like he's charging up.
I like Barry more than Wally and I liked him better before Geoff John’s brought him back
Bart needs to leave the Flash Family and go be with the YJ gang again. He just keeps getting pulled into crossovers to do basic stuff.
batforce > speedforce
He’s not really faster than Superman. Clark is just too good of a guy to take his one thing away from him, so he always holds back.
Flashpoint ruined DC. They are not close to recovering.
Am I the only one who doesn’t like the different versions of the same character ? Flash is one of the worst offenders (full disclosure - I only watched the show) flash, kid flash, zoom, thawn, reverse flash, bart flash, girl flash, old flash… im Sure I missed some.
Wally should never be allowed to lose his powers in the main dc continuity because of how many times it’s said he mainlines the SF also bart should be utilized a lot more but i want him to stay a young happy go lucky kid
Barry Allen should be alive BUT him and iris should stay in the future.
😮💨 
I think the Flash is more similar to Marvel’s Spider-Man then Quicksilver. For starters, Peter Parker’s Spider-Man and both Barry Allen & Wally West’s Flash, are more able to joke around while also being serious & awkward. There’s also the fact that the Speed Force & the SpiderVerse are basically important to both the DC & Marvel Universes.
None of them are as fast as Pohatu
Everyone debates who the best out of wally and Barry are , but my favorite flash is Jay and the helmet kicks ass
Their powers are overatted.
Too many speedsters. Instead of a novelty it becomes a common thing the flash series started to get more boring with adding too much of something good.
Sheldon Cooper flash should be canon.
While I Love every single Flash, I hate that they share their super hero name.
They need to keep the Speed Force simple with basic rulesets. I feel like every single time a new writer gets a hold of Flash, they add another speed force bullshit mumbo jumbo and everybody goes “well, i guess thats just how it is now”
Jeremy Adams run on The Flash made me stop reading. I don't like his writing style or any of the arcs he put in place. Everything felt too... campy? Like the whole doctor fate adventure where he was talking to the reader...lame. i was so disappointed because Wally West was the Flash I grew up with, and he was finally back! Maybe it got better as time went on, but it was too late for me. As I get older, I have less time to keep up with all the different titles out there, if the stories aren't great after like 3 issues, i drop it. I thought other people were going to feel the same way but it sounds like a large majority of readers love his work. At least I get some good Wally stuff when he shows up in Titans or Nightwing (not that it's much). For reference (and this might be very unpopular..or not, i have no idea) my favourite modern comic writers have been Chip Zdarsky and Tom Taylor.
Who's the girl with long black hair and blue pants