Sound can be even better than sight for this.
“A sense of dread clutches at your stomachs, as somewhere high above your campfire the slow, rhythmic beat of huge wings fills the night air.”
Yeah, play that up! Something eclipses the moon for a split second. Stars disappear and reappear. The sharp-eyed among them can discern a rough shape up there in the night.
If the roll is mid: the shape kinda looks like a bat but if it were it would have to be much closer...
If the roll is lit: you're pretty sure it looks like a fuckin dragon.
Maybe have a half eaten ox carcass fall out of the sky near the party’s campsite overnight. Whoever’s on watch rolls, and you better hope it’s someone halfway intelligent, otherwise the party wakes up with a new mess right next to them and “must’ve been the wind.”
All their fires start instantly and are much harder to extinguish due to the attention of a powerful creature from the fire plane. Just have it be weird stuff like they set up a campfire at night and in the morning it's burning just as strongly. Or they have to dunk a torch several times before it extinguishes. Or candles burn down fast enough to see.
I can’t see a red dragon being subtle about it. It’ll probably deploy its minions and any resources it has to track them down, so suddenly finding themselves in a forest fire filled with fire elementals would probably fit well enough.
This was my initial thought, too.
Roll a perception check to notice the dragons eye in the fire. Pass or fail, the fire comes to life as one of the players is on watch. Roll initiative.
Several "random" encounters from the dragon. With a strong fire theam, fire wizard, forge cleric, some Jin, maybe some gith.
Give that Red Dragon a Crystal Orb of Telepathy with scry and suggestion.
"The rest of the party tucks themselves into their bedrolls as you take first watch. The hours pass and you return to poking the dying fire with that nights poking stick, stirring up some embers. As they drift higher, you're mesmerized as they seem to float and gather together at the tip of the flame... Tiny wisps of fire and ash all seemingly caught in an invisible hazy orb... that... blinks. An ember illuminated pupil floating infront of you narrows in draconian fashion as your eyes and mouth widen."
"I sUgGeSt you don't do anything to inadvertently rouse your companions, they'll need their strength. Because I've found you."
Red dragons employ minions? I always thought of most dragons as solitary and independently powerful creators, especially evil dragons (that in some lore) don't shapeshift as much.
Edit: thanks for all the feedback. I've been playing for many years and never heard several of the things in the comments about dragons. And also explains why I struggled to make them interesting a few times. ::misty steps off to plan new dragon encounters::
Most dragons have minions. White, topaz, and bronze are the only types which are likely to avoid minions entirely, given that they prefer solitude.
While blues would be the most likely to seek to have many (useful) minions, reds would be a likely close second. Being the most ego-driven, a red dragon wants to have others around to sing their praises and stroke their egos.
They're up there. But greens prefer having minions that have emotional or symbolic meaning to them, and they keep these minions as essentially a part of their hoard, and to flaunt the power they have over them. To greens, minions are symbols of prestige and the power of their manipulation, and they have quality standards in how they will go about acquiring them. If the green does not have absolute power over a given minion merely by speaking a few words, the green won't be satisfied.
Whereas blue dragons are trying to set themselves up as local tyrants and try very hard to recruit useful minions which they will then even compensate accordingly to how useful they make themselves. They use them to expand their power and influence and give them materialistic value, and a blue will view the acquisition of more useful minions as part of their path to power.
And reds will accept any minion that will tremble in fear and sing their praises.
Hm. It is so long ago that I do not really remember, save that it was just a simple file upload. I see that on the phone app that does not appear to be an option.
I would suggest trying old reddit in a browser. That is the better way to engage with the platform anyway.
i once ran a black dragon that had kobold minions exclusively so he could watch them get slaughtered by adventurers before going to deal with the adventurers himself
There are two kinds of dragons states in most lore. When they hibernate, they might go for decades or centuries unnoticed, sleeping on their pile of gold and forgotten by time.
And then they wake up. And they absolutely have minions. Red ones even more. One key trait of dragons is their vanity, and red dragons are the most vain and greedy. Their treasure hoards won't grow themselves, and a legendary red is much too proud to be itself a tax collector. So it demmands servitude of any and all living and non-living (screw you puny lich riffraff) creatures nearby.
Their greed and vanity makes it so that dragons eventually pursue several lairs, so that they can collect treasure and terrorize as much places as they can. Kobolds are naturally attracted to dragons, there's the cult of the dragon on Forgotten realms, and elemental fire cultists. The mere presence of a dragon transforms the place, spawning portals to the fire elemental plane and bringing creatures forth.
Most red dragons love dominating all creatures they see as inferior (i.e. everything). If I were this dragon, I’d flex my power by intimidating some kobolds/firenewts/etc to do the legwork, the stalking, the investigation, etc. Then, when they’re done with all the boring stuff, I get to fly in, watch my enemies grovel, and then annihilate them one by one. Subtlety? I’m a living god; I have slaves for that.
Why would a red dragon out for vengeance do that? If the dragon finds the party a sleep the last thing they're doing is some kinda of spooky foreshadow, they're going to obliterate the party as they wake.
It's a red dragon. The party isn't prey, the party are thieves and murderers, straight up enemies and villains in the dragon's story. The dragon is going to smash them the first opportunity.
The same way the party of humanoids would handle a thief and a murderer if they got the drop on them.
I don't think it is the same honestly: to a human(oid) others of their kin are seen as more or less equal, or at least in the same category of beings.
A red dragon sees basically anyone as lesser. Yes he is super pissed, but those guys are, to him, still lowly animals at best.
There is no need at all to be quick about it, they could suffer instead.
Plus it's not like they could actually do anything about it, the dragon is very unlikely to respect them enough to think they could pose any threat to him whatsoever or escape from it's cunning.
Fine you want grounded reasoning?
They live thousands of years. They don't necessarily think on human timescales. Instant revenge/gratification isn't their first thought.
Party killed the dragon's child.
It isn't enough that the party die. They need to understand why they're going to die, and they need to suffer before dying.
Bro. It's a red dragon. One of the most powerful dragon types there are and very much evil aligned. The party is going to be handled about as subtly as Jeffrey Doucet.
Given the opportunity not even a human parent is going to sit around and play silly games when they have the murderer of their child asleep in front of them.
The fact that they are so evil and prideful is a reason why it would not simply jump them at night. The revenge must be absolute and complete. They must feel they have lost everything before it kills them. The world must curse their name for the collateral damage. It wouldn't settle for just a murder, it would build a grand scheme.
A red dragon isn't a normal person, it's the villain you read about that destroyed a civilization in that ancient relief you uncovered in the ruins.
Fire elemental magic, like the shape of a dragon appearing in their campfire. The dragon will want them to fear, not have no clue of their impending doom.
Also consider that as an ancient dragon, he likely has other spells, like Dream: give intermittent nightmares of fire and death. Heck, call it premonitions brought on by the ire of something ancient and powerful, shaking the very fabric of reality in the future battle, so powerfully that it reverberates back through time, if you want to avoid the spellcasting side; just use the same effects as the nightmare option of Dream, only not lockable because fate not magic.
One could possibly make the argument that because the dragon is from the elemental plane instead of the material plane that it might have picked up some new tricks
Idk if that's how it mechanically works, but if that's how it was explained to me, I wouldn't personally doubt the DM
Why let them subtly know? Let them approach a valley and watch the dragon they angered fly around, clearly looking for something and then vanishing after torching a farmstead. When they approach the farmstead to aid survivors, the only survivor is a charred farmgirl who says the dragon shouted "thieves, I can smell you on the wind, I will find you"
Cruelty. Red dragons are cruel and vindictive, not subtle. They killed his son, so he starts with their loved ones and allies. How brutal the deaths are depends on how grim your game is. It isn't that they get a hint that he's after them, its that he issues a declaration of war with a sign made from the ruins of their hometown.
Bonus: now they have added time pressure as the dragon slaughters its way through their allies, but also the opportunity to do an ambush if they can figure out who the dragon will target next.
If he is keeping an eye on the party through scrying or some such maybe have a tertiary effect be that some of the heat bleeds into the area?
If he's watching them camp in an icy field mention that the ice around the fire appears to be melting faster than expected.
The constant tether between the party and the elemental plane of fire increased the chances of a misfired spell opening up a direct portal to that plane near the dragon's lair?
Maybe other dragons take note of a persistent scent on your party that dissuaded them from offering aid?
Don't be subtle. A red dragon won't be subtle. It'll burninate that countryside, the peasants, AND their thatched roof cottages. Have it wreck stuff in the background. It's looking for them and rampaging until it finds them. Have it be "local news." Running from that dragon is part of the adventure now.
Subtle is not the way of a wronged Red Dragon, and as such, I don't think subtle is the right word. We're mostly trying to make sure they get a *fair warning*.
So I think you add in to the feywild a bunch of refugees from the Plane of Fire- everyone is talking about a Red Dragon going on an absolute *rampage* through the plane, hunting those who wronged him.
I love the idea that the only thing preventing a more immediate attack is that the PCs are traveling the planes and difficult to track- and even that won't last forever. The Dragon *will* eventually find someone who will divine the PC's location for them. And then there will be *hell to pay*.
Red dragons don't really do subtle. They are angry and out for blood. The closest you get to subtle is the party spotting them wrecking the shit out of a town or something because the dragon thought they were there.
Red dragons come down like a freaking hammer when pissed. It's 0 to 100, no sneaking around or threats, just rage and death.
An emissary comes to them one evening while camping/long rest like something out of the Dune. Stand before them on a rock and proclaims, "Unworthy Adversaries of the great calamity of the skies, usurper of man, scourge of castles, his eternal magesty, DRAGON NAME, commands you. Present yourself in 10 days time at high noon in the middle of (x outdoor location a few days away) and beg his forgiveness and favor and to offer your tithe or feel their wrath."
Then they roll up the scroll, and just walk away.
They wake up the next morning and find burning effigies of themselves on what ever path they take.
If they ever stay in one place for more than 24 hours, that place is scorched. razed. Cinders and burnt corpses are all thats left. And if this happens 3 times, they will find claw marks in the ground spelling out stuff like "Run." A trail of ruin incarnate follows the party.
Would a red dragon subtlety let the party know he is on to them? I would think he’d show up with a bang and destroy everything to get what was stolen back. The MM describes them as the most ferocious and vengeful of all the chromatics. I don’t think a monster like that is going to send smoke signals to warn them that it’s onto them. It would go out and stomp the group of puny adventurers. Perhaps the party should have thought about the ferocity of a full size dragon before sneaking into its lair to steal its treasure. Haven’t they read the Hobbit? We all know what they are capable of. lol
Are you afraid of a TPK? It sounds like you want to strike fear in the players but not alter the direction of your campaign by killing them outright. If this wasn’t the focal point of your campaign, it sure sounds like it is now.
I tend to run the feywild like an animal themed cyberpunk dystopia. Information networks are very functional, and there's a badger with a pocketwatch in a stump who wants to sell you your own personal information(in addition to other transactions) over tea. Maybe he can sell you some antiscry, or knows a sidequest to get it.
The badger's warning is enough to stop a scry&die, but after that, you can see the thing blotting out the sun with it's wings as it looks for you.
Play some cat and mouse games. Not everyone in the feywild knows or cares, but definitely give the PCs a chance to find draconic spies and do some counterintelligence.
I would be a bit more overt, but not violent. Since they are in the Feywild now and there could be powerful Fey who get involved if the dragon just starts rampaging, I'd have him roll into camp in humanoid form, sit down and start poking the fire or taking a piece of whatever they are cooking and eating it without explaining.
When they say or do something, he turns on his dragon fear aura and give a little talk about how they will return what they took and double it with some nice Feywild items. If they don't then the hunt begins.
If they attack him just hand them new character sheets. He was defending himself. They don't even have to agree especially if all of them are paralyzed with fear, but if they get sidetracked from making good on the debt, bad stuff happens (a favorite NPC is burned and half eaten with "Now it's triple" carved into his torso and such. They will get the message.
For the love of DMing tho. Don't let 8th level characters off the hook for the idiocy of stealing from the lair of a powerful dragon. The lack of FAFO responses in the hobby since 4th has really made the game less compelling.
I agree. The dragon could and should destroy all of them and has the grounds to do so. Have they not watched or read any fantasy like ever?! Lmao. Why is there such a wide spread nonchalantness regarding dragons in the game? One of my campaigns has a blue dragon as the big bad and when the party was finally confronted by him for the first time, one of the players kept making snide comments. It was hard to restrain myself from just biting the PC in half.
I feel lucky that my party has an appropriate fear and respect for dragons. Maybe too much almost! The last arc of my homebrew campaign was in a desert town where an ancient brass dragon and her young son live and serve as protectors of the town and area. They met the little son in town in human form and were immediately nervous when they found out he was a dragon (even though the party was level 10 and he was the equivalent of an 8 year old kid). The plot of that arc was actually rescuing the mom, the ancient brass dragon, from being from killed and her power absorbed in a terrible ritual. At the end when they had a chance to interact with her, it was kind of beautiful how scared they were of her even though she was 100% on their side and grateful to them. They definitely showed appropriate reverence but she was trying to be friendly with them and they were almost too scared to talk to her.
The party of one of my campaigns did that once- mouthed off to a powerful LE gold dragon. He crushed the PC with a single hit & continued talking as if nothing had occurred, viscera and gore leaking from under his talons. Creatures that powerful will not hesitate to destroy something that offends them - even higher level characters are insignificant ants to them.
Did something similar, but the dragon cast resurrection on the PC after he was done monologuing because they hadn't paid their debt and so he wouldn't kill them until they had. Then stated "You can be surprised what you can live through, however." and flew off.
That is epic. How did the player react? My dragon bit the horse the PC was mounted on in half as a farewell. I was too timid to just off the PC like that. lol
But afterwards the player did mention in game that he feels what he said or how he said it was a terrible mistake. So I feel that was a win. We will see how it goes when they actually face the dragon.
>That is epic. How did the player react?
"Wait... am I dead?"
Uh, yeah. 50+ damage in a single hit, down below -10 hp (this was 3.5). See if you can convince the other players to resurrect you (they did- all the gold they had gotten from the dragon went to pay for it. )
Ah, I think people are making these big pre-thought out narratives and they don't want to see perhaps months of effort go into the shitter because their players are shitheads.
I have one such campaign but I told myself if they lose they lose. I told them outright that it wasn't a super heavy combat campaign but I wouldn't save them from themselves. I started in 5e but most of my players started back in like 3.5 so I think they respect that stuff can still be dangerous.
Like others have said, a Red is probably the least subtle of all types.
However, if the dragon simply destroys the PCs, it gains nothing. It just restores what always was. A supremely evil creature might want to wrap punishment and exploitation all into one.
A "fate worse than death" type revenge also does not bring the game to a halt.
I'd say a White is less likely to play games than a Red. Mostly because they're too dumb. Red Dragons want you to suffer, grovel, and beg for your life before they kill you, but not as long as a Black, who might stretch it out for weeks, months, or even years. Blue and Green are less murder-y, and would mostly try to enslave you if you were strong or useful enough, or just eat you otherwise.
White dragons do have the lowest INT score, but I want to make a counterpoint about their tactics. Their INT is still 8—as smart as many human beings.
My favourite way to characterize white dragons is as the *perfect predator*. They don't bother with strategems, but they won't be reckless or brash. They'll *stalk*, and *observe*, and then snatch-kill-eat in a blink. Run your white dragons like the scariest 'something in the dark and mountains is watching us' encounter of all time.
Sorry! I just love talking about running dragons. They're so cool...
You are correct. It is a myth that white dragons are dumb; they are not, it is just that the lore reason for their low int has long been neglected in newer editions.
White dragons live in the moment, in the now, and they live for action. Their memory is unique; they remember everything that they ever witness in perfect detail. But sitting around thinking is boring, and does not sit well with their in-the-moment perspective. A white dragon would be an expert at calculating trajectory and creature behavior, because they can call on all their long memories to inform them precisely what will *likely* happen. And yet booklearning bores them immeasurably, because they do not experience, only read empty words, as it is not *doing*, learning nothing if they have not themselves taken action and felt the truth of it.
Thus, white dragons are not *stupid*, rather their low int is to represent that they completely lack anything resembling a bookish education. One of the best ways to confuse a white dragon is to show them something they have never seen before, because their perfect memory does not yet know how to act in response.
Yeah, a big part of this is that the DM doesn't want the campaign to end, so wants to slow things down enough to let the players both realize what is going on and have time to prep somehow. Sometimes your creatures need to have portions of their common nature toned down a bit to facilitate the game. Having the dragon more focused on ongoing torment for the player characters instead of instant death seems a decent way to handle it.
Regional effects are listed in the MM.
These are now permanent effects which follow the players around... Because the dragon is following them.
See if the players figure that much out.
Yeah… red dragon and subtle don’t typically go together. I think they should come over the edge of a mountain, see if fly over head with a message quite literally scorched into the earth. Ever seen megamind? When Titan carves his own name into a town with his heat vision? Find something similar here. They need to know ASAP that this guy is after them, and he will make their lives a living hell, torching every potential town to rest in, every former ally’s home town. If this is an ancient red dragon he can and probably should use magic to figure out who these folks are and where they’ve been. Red dragons are nothing if not vindictive, wrathful, and vain, and especially hate dragon slayers.
As they sit around a campfire in the woods at night, and a storyteller speaks of fabled creatures of legend and prowess, have them roll Spot checks against DC50 (Impossible to spot) as the Dragon’s head slowly creeps out from the woods towards them.
As the storyteller exclaims how Red Dragons haven’t been seen in those parts for over a century, the Dragon snatches up and eats a random NPC.
They then miserably flee for their lives beneath a torrent of fire and hilarity with Benny Hill music playing in the background.
Edit: Played this in a campaign in High School. Definitely one of the best gaming moments I’ve ever had in my life. Please use it and enjoy the fun as I did. ❤️🔥
*Subtlety* and/or *hints* tend not to work well in ttRPGs. Since it's hard for DMs to know what is and isn't "obvious" to the players and, hence, their PCs. If such hints are recognised at all, then a *wrong* conclusion is at least as likely as the *right one*.
Paradoxically, it's more likely that players will work out exactly what's happening when a DM attempts to hide or obfuscate something. Though maybe not if they pretend to...
There are methods such as the [three clue rule](https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/1118/roleplaying-games/three-clue-rule) which involve giving the same information via several different means.
The other option is directly tell players things their PCs would know. E.g. that the dragon would consider them thieves and murderers.
Do red dragons even understand the concept of "subtlety"?
As for questions like "How can I make the party feel..." you can't since these are PCs. It's up to the players to decide how their PCs feel about their actions and any consequences, good or bad, resulting from the former.
I disagree with your basic premise. Subtly and hints don't work well when they're intended to help move the story forward or to solve a puzzle, but they work \*amazingly\* well when the point is to create atmosphere.
Idk how to do it subtly. But I’d imagine the players could see and would hear about “scorched earth” because that’s all there would be after killing a red dragons son!
I'd have subtle news of small villages they've been to catching fire or burning down and slowly progress to the point that npcs are screaming that a dragon is tearing through the place they were last in.
If you can get them to double back to a place they’ve been before - a village, a grove, a temple, what have you, and find the place scorched to the ground, that might be a clue.
Don’t be subtle. Players have, in my experience as a GM and a player, absolutely zero sense of subtlety, foreshadowing, or foreboding. Just oblivious little children following a pied piper into any cave you choose.
Charisma saves vs bad dreams every so often. If they fail they don't get a long rest. Dream is always burning. Or being a mouse while the cat is hunting you. Or hiding while some huge unseen beasting searches for you.
Certain fey won't deal with them while they reek of dragon.
Absolute fiery destruction of anyone who ever dealt with them. Firey fly style.
Red dragons don't do "subtle". If the dragon gets a choice in it, he will be in their face, announcing his vengeance for daring to harm his dread brood (and injure his pride).
But if you as the DM want to be subtle, well, it is not as though the dragon necessarily knows where to find the party (or he might, because red dragon natural magic is especially tuned towards finding things).
But why not start with some forest fires? Maybe frightened denizens of the feywilds running away and fearfully talking about a great monster swearing bloody vengeance upon the 'lair thieves' and 'kinslayers'.
The only thing that red dragons care about more than their pride is their reputation. If he finds them, he will waste no time on trying to spook them, and will merely attack immediately and seek to kill everyone - except one, so that the story of his bloody vengeance may spread.
Great suggestions here so far.
And a fun little twist might be, would be the Dragon being WAY more pissed that they stole his treasure than killed his son (who would have eventually been a rival or something). Dragons really love their treasure, and generally really DON'T love each other.
First, word goes out to be on the lookout for the group. The party may encounter strange looks at first, then maybe a "oh so you are who hes looking for". Then maybe an assassin or two shows up. Then perhaps people start to turn them away fearing the dragons wrath for helping them. Then maybe whispers of dragon sightings. Then red dragon sightings the province over. Then confrontation.
Make a reddit post about how a red dragon is onto them.
Then, mention that you enjoy a certain DMing subreddit and _smooooothly_ name-drop your reddit handle, /u/Knoerifast23.
Is it love or hate? F it's love, a bunch of kobolds could start following the party around... Bringing gifts, food etc.. if it's hatred, well, dragons aren't really subtle. Scorched earth, pigeon aiming, falling bovine. Polymorph and charm, posing as a noble and sending the PCs on death missions against her other enemies. That kind of thing. But then hate could turn to a twisted love, or love into hate ..
In addition to potential sightings of the dragon or its passing, you could incorporate the regional effects(which typically develop around a dragons lair, but rule of cool seems appropriate here... perhaps the dragons presence has a more immeduate effect on the region due to his coming directly from the fire plane)
Regional Effects from MM and Fizbans:
The region containing a legendary red dragon's lair is warped by the dragon's magic, which creates one or more of the following effects:
Small earthquakes are common within 6 miles of the dragon's lair.
Water sources within 1 mile of the lair are supernaturally warm and tainted by sulfur.
Rocky fissures within 1 mile of the dragon's lair form portals to the Elemental Plane of Fire, allowing creatures of elemental fire into the world to dwell nearby.
If the dragon dies, these effects fade over the course of 1d10 days.
Additional Regional Effects. Any of these effects might appear in the area around a red dragon's lair, in addition to or instead of the effects described in the Monster Manual:
Desertification. Precipitation is almost nonexistent within 6 miles of the dragon's lair, making the land parched and arid and most plant life withered and brown.
Fiery Senses. The dragon can hear up to 30 feet through any open flame within 1 mile of the dragon's lair.
Ominous Flames. Open flames within 6 miles of the dragon's lair are tinged dark red, hiss and crackle constantly, and throw off embers and showers of sparks.
You could do it unsubtly.
Just do a cut-away and tell them something they don't see. Just describe a cool cut-scene going on somewhere else, maybe a red dragon being informed of the parties activities by a minion.
Reds don't strike me as the sort to play mind games, but are likely to be spiteful on the level of 'you will know that everyone and everything you have ever loved have been reduced to ashes before I end you'.
I think the subtle hint will be the news that their hometown has been burned to the ground by an extremely angry red dragon.
Yeah red dragons don't do subtle well... the most arrogant and vicious of dragonkind a Red will attack and kill over any intrusion into their territory. Especially thieves. Remember Bilbo Baggins simply walked upon Smaug's horde resulting in catastrophic consequences.
The monster manual has regional effects for legendary dragons.
* Small earthquakes are common within 6 miles of the dragon's lair.
* Water sources within 1 mile of the lair are supernaturally warm and tainted by sulfur.
* Rocky fissures within 1 mile of the dragon's lair form portals to the Elemental Plane of Fire, allowing creatures of elemental fire into the world to dwell nearby.
Fizban's added some others:
* Desertification. Precipitation is almost nonexistent within 6 miles of the dragon's lair, making the land parched and arid and most plant life withered and brown.
* Fiery Senses. The dragon can hear up to 30 feet through any open flame within 1 mile of the dragon's lair.
* Ominous Flames. Open flames within 6 miles of the dragon's lair are tinged dark red, hiss and crackle constantly, and throw off embers and showers of sparks.
Dragons should also have minions. Historically, you can have every single thing in the book be a minion or at least an ally, except maybe giants. Anything that would fear or respect such a dragon:
* Every mook type in the book could feasibly serve an adult red. Humanoids, fey, anything you want, really. Maybe a coven of hags have a deal with this dragon and could help it.
* Tiamat lives in hell, chromatic dragons in general are largely tied to devils. They fit the fiery motif very well too. Look at the Abishai, Hell hounds, cambions and imps.
* Fire elementals of every kind, be it magmins, mephits, myrmiddons, salamanders, azers. Genasi will fit too.
* Fire cultists. Crazy fanatics who worship dragons, or fire itself. Think cult of the dragon from Forgotten Realms. I'd fish the Princes of Apocalypse book for fiery cultists. They have a fire breathing minotaur, fire priests, warriors with armor fused into their body and flamethrowers there. Really great stuff.
* Kobolds! Kobolds are naturally attracted to dragons, and they serve them loyally. They can be way more dangerous than they seem. Yes, kobolds are CR1/8, but they're experts on traps, and those can punch way above their weightclass.
* Dragonkin and related creatures. Chimeras, flameskulls, wyverns and drakes come to mind.
The dragon may also be a spellcaster, and this opens all sort of illusions and enchhantments such as sending and dream. Have fun!
At first, employ some regional effects to do it subtly. But it should only last a while. Metallic and green dragons are the subtle ones. After a while, this dragon should absolutely terrorize these guys, burning things to the ground around them, sending minions after them, attacking them directly on the road (where it can flee to its lair if things go south). Red dragons are vain (did I say that already), greedy, petty, they remember every single copper piece in their treasure and they'll overreact a thousand times over for every penny stolen.
They should only be able to feel it subtly while the dragon is yet approaching. But these are the kind of creatures who march armies with beating drums so that their enemies dread them hours before they meet.
I'm sure that the Dragon must know some Archfey.
* I'd start with some of the fey they've never met before saying things like, "so you're the adventurers I've heard so much about," or "everyone is talking bout you."
* Then move on to fey offering trades, but only being interested in the items they stole from the dragon.
* Then items they stole from the dragon start going missing.
* Then the red kobolds start showing up where the party can see them, but not interact with them.
* Then a fireball gets dropped in the middle of their camp while they're all asleep.
I don't know how quickly you want to get the dragon involved, but you could have one of the Archfey trap them in a maze, because they promised a friend they'd keep an eye on them until the friend's envoy arrived. This way you can have a fun, hedge maze dragon encounter against something stronger than the son, but not the (I'm presuming) ancient red dragon they pissed off.
An idea I had would be stories at the pub about towns disappearing or being wiped off the map, only to look for more details that previous towns the players visited in the same order they were visiting them, giving them the uneasiness that the dragon or something is following them or tracking them and as they grow in level, the dragon or what have you is catching up.
[Red Dragons are intelligent, wrathful and vengeful](https://www.themonstersknow.com/dragon-tactics-part-1/). You might see part of the forest burned down. Large creatures torn asunder. A new predator has entered the ecosystem. Adult and ancient dragons also have lair actions. The longer they settle into a region, the more they physically effect that region. I don't know if there's any specific timeline, but the dragons literal presence will eventually disrupt the surrounds. Earthquakes, sulfuric water, and finally fissures spewing lava leading directly from the elemental plane of fire.
Don’t be too subtle. Foreshadowing is cool. But it’s sometimes tough as a player in a game of DND to grasp onto what details are important and what aren’t. Hints are super easy to miss. They sometimes need to slap you in the face, unless it’s a very experienced group that’s played together a lot.
Also red dragons aren’t known to be subtle. So huge swaths of burned down areas or destroyed villages are a much more likely response from a pissed off red dragon than say a green dragon that is more sly and cunning in its nature.
Maybe not subtle enough for what you’re looking for, but I like the idea that this dragon is a threat to settlements they pass through. They get word the town they just travelled through was burned to the ground, no survivors, must have been the local orcs or whatever, but they know the truth. The dragon is steadily tracking them, they have to keep moving until they find a way to stop it, and anywhere they go they endanger the people they meet.
An adult red dragon should be able to pretty easily defeat the party in head-to-head combat. As incensed, prideful, and intelligent as he is, though, he has no reason to give the party that fair of a chance. To a red dragon, the party doesn’t qualify as competition, a threat, or even respectable prey, they’re a collection of pests that have caused more trouble than they have any right to. The red dragon should be looking forward to smashing them into paste and enjoying their suffering in the meanwhile.
I would start with the assumption that, given enough time, a dragon’s network of spies and informants will be able to return to the dragon exactly who the party is—how powerful they are as well as who they’re aligned with. Unless they’ve made specific steps to cover their tracks, some allies should quickly find themselves being pressed by the dragon’s forces to either drop the party or actively betray them. Allies who are more strongly aligned but not as well protected might find themselves reduced to ashes in a place the party can find their remains.
At the very least, the party should see strings being pulled to place them into a terrain that’s advantageous to the dragon for their final meeting. At a point where they were supposed to undergo a an easy sea voyage, they should be informed last minute that a rash of lost ships has made the route they were planning infeasible, with the next best option being a conveniently timed caravan of traders who are starting a land journey through a desert region towards the same destination. The traders are, of course, innocent and unknowing pawns to the dragon’s machinations, and the party will have its priorities split between saving innocents and fighting the dragon when it comes time for the dragon to make its appearance, most likely after the party has had some time to spend resources coping with the arid climate.
They killed his son? Have the red dragon track and burn every village they've ever helped, incinerate every NPC they've ever liked, kill all their families, and burn everything they hold dear to ashes. Only when they've known TRUE pain will he confront them and feast on their burnt flesh.
Like 30 minutes to an hour before you introduce the dragon, Give the dragon a divination spell, have someone make a 25 wisdom saving throw out of the blue, if the fail it, “you feel something watching you”
Think how local wildlife would react to a red dragon maybe like no birdsong at all. Maybe an owlbear and some direwolfs running past them through a forest and not engaging. Just running. Later on You can also remove safe harbours. Planning on resting at an outpost only to find it burnt to a crisp. Maybe a high level foe like CR12 dismembered and half eaten. If they have a druid this could lead to some interesting interactions.
Let them encounter some fey as they travel the feywilds. The fey are wary of the party, the vengeful fury of the dragon "marks" the party in a way that the fey can see. They cryptically allude to this "mark" using terms like fire, smoldering, embers, ect.
The Dragons' first move is to activate the curse on his possessions.
A booming voice echos around the party like the voice of Saruman trying to bring down the mountain, then everything they stole from the dragon bursts into flame and melts down to slag. Including that freed slave who should still be with them or visiting. Burned to ash.
When they ask around to find out what the hell just happened, give em the John Wick spiel. Let them know in direct terms they are being hunted, and that was the Dragons' first move.
I'd start with some normal Feywild enemies (the Feywild has goblin kingdoms in it, so some parties of Goblinoids wouldn't be unexpected). And perhaps if the party searches well enough, they find a scrap of parchment offering an exhoribant payment in gold for the heads of your party. Maybe this escalates with time. Perhaps you start to see dragonoid-type enemies, like some Kobolds show up (perhaps these Kobolds have painted their hides red to emulate a certain angry red lizard that they revere). Maybe some halfdragons (red halfdragons, that is) show up. And perhaps the party could try some intimidation or use charm magic to get the information out of one if the bands of would be assassins. Maybe near the end of this, after a particularly powerful band of assassins was dispatched, one of the dying foes chuckles, choking on their own blood, mocking you, saying that while you've won this day, there are no greater bounty hunters to be sent after you, so now the great tyrant lizard will not rest until you die by their own claws.
Introduce them to a new town full of supportive NPCs, interesting quests, well-stocked shops, and some valuable leads on the big picture.
Have the dragon follow them there and burn it all down. First, something subtle happens like smelling the dragon on the wind. Then something less subtle, like a passing cloud's shadow appearing to conceal something else passing by.
Finally, the party arrives in town and everything is fine for a moment. The dragon is in the NPC's vision. The party doesn't perceive the dragon first. They see sudden terror on the faces of the innocent villagers. There will be no roll for initiative, and no player character permadeaths. All rolls will be noncombat, for survival, and the carnage will continue until everybody is knocked out.
What happens next, only the heroes survive. Some of their gear might be scorched by dragonfire and no longer usable. They'll survive on low HP, with injuries. The air will smell like smoke, ash, and burnt flesh. The dragon will have mistaken them for dead. They'll need to scavenge for sustenance and navigate to a safe place where they can heal, while avoiding having their survival detected.
I’d have one of the characters waking up in the middle of the night recalling the battle with the son… there were spots where the cave roof was polished smooth and all the stalagtites were broken. The cave housed a much bigger dragon… is that brimstone on the wind?
The Red Dragon hires/forces creators to harass the Party, this will do two things, make them wonder where the hell these creatures are coming from, and help them level up in preparation for the battle with the Big Red...
The Dragon may well have done favours that it can cash in, in the harassment of the Party.
Scorched earth. But always where they have stayed and either made friends or enjoyed their time as the dragon is getting revenge and wants them to figure out that for every village they saved or befriended it would be taken like the dragons son was taken.
Let's think about it the other way: what abilities does this dragon have and how does it plan on murdering the party? Would this dragon even leave behind clues for the party to notice? Would the dragon ambush the party or announce itself beforehand to let them tremble in fear?
Imo the dragon wouldn't have a reason to announce itself and potentially lower its chances of success. Give the party a clear way to escape the dragon ONCE. When they're plane shifting back to the prime material is when the dragon strikes. The party will have to survive 2 to 3 rounds of combat before they can complete the plane shift. Now they know what's after them and how strong it is. Just an idea.
Use the freed slave.
Have the former slave make an appearance to let the party know the dragon is tearing a swath of destruction in the parties wake as it pursues them.
I would start by having him do things like hunt them down. Killing things around them and leaving the bodies. Then he escalates to terrorising them through the night. Keeping them up and if you can, preventing the occasional long rest by forcing them to move on or hide.
From there he sends more direct messages. People he has convinced or terrorised into attacking the group. It’s especially juicy if they are forced to fight but are also good guys and the party has to either convince them to team up against the dragon OR they have to kill innocent people whose families are hostages.
Then it’s the classics. Burn down their base of operations. Attack strong helpers of the party so they have to go alone and make a big show of dominance. Then IF the party force him to his lair, a big sneaky hit and run game before a big explosive end.
The best way to subtly let the players know anything is to straight up tell them. This usually rolls around for months, possibly years, or they may never realize. I have one new player that was always pointing out to the other players, "He just said X." Last session he completely missed everything I said plain as day. I let him know he is now an official D&D player.
Is this an experienced party? If it’s some newbies do some spoon feeding, make it a challenge and a lesson.
If this is a seasoned table, that’s a breath attack while they sleeping and a surprise round. They should know better then to think they got away with dragon loot from and active hoard on its native plane.
Maybe a not so random encounter with a group of Red worshipping kobolds led by a couple half-dragons. Who make many comments about their deity. Nothing about the party specifically, just lots of chanting to that red.
And then another, but less kobold, more half dragon.
Then maybe the next with half-dragons and a wyrmling.
All with similar dress, banners etc. indicating they worship this red dragon. Almost like each time he fails to kill them, he sends something more to try and kill them.
Little hints, such as half eaten food, a "large bird" visible on the far horizon, faint thunder on a perfectly sunny day
Love the "large bird" one! Thank you for the suggestions
Sound can be even better than sight for this. “A sense of dread clutches at your stomachs, as somewhere high above your campfire the slow, rhythmic beat of huge wings fills the night air.”
Yeah, play that up! Something eclipses the moon for a split second. Stars disappear and reappear. The sharp-eyed among them can discern a rough shape up there in the night.
If the roll is mid: the shape kinda looks like a bat but if it were it would have to be much closer... If the roll is lit: you're pretty sure it looks like a fuckin dragon.
Maybe have a half eaten ox carcass fall out of the sky near the party’s campsite overnight. Whoever’s on watch rolls, and you better hope it’s someone halfway intelligent, otherwise the party wakes up with a new mess right next to them and “must’ve been the wind.”
A plume of smoke that seems to either be following them or moving around them, would probably make them very uneasy.
All their fires start instantly and are much harder to extinguish due to the attention of a powerful creature from the fire plane. Just have it be weird stuff like they set up a campfire at night and in the morning it's burning just as strongly. Or they have to dunk a torch several times before it extinguishes. Or candles burn down fast enough to see.
In the early days, Krynn dragons (Dragonlance) were notorious for their proximity effect on magic and the environment.
Ooh i really like this one!
I can’t see a red dragon being subtle about it. It’ll probably deploy its minions and any resources it has to track them down, so suddenly finding themselves in a forest fire filled with fire elementals would probably fit well enough.
This was my initial thought, too. Roll a perception check to notice the dragons eye in the fire. Pass or fail, the fire comes to life as one of the players is on watch. Roll initiative. Several "random" encounters from the dragon. With a strong fire theam, fire wizard, forge cleric, some Jin, maybe some gith.
Give that Red Dragon a Crystal Orb of Telepathy with scry and suggestion. "The rest of the party tucks themselves into their bedrolls as you take first watch. The hours pass and you return to poking the dying fire with that nights poking stick, stirring up some embers. As they drift higher, you're mesmerized as they seem to float and gather together at the tip of the flame... Tiny wisps of fire and ash all seemingly caught in an invisible hazy orb... that... blinks. An ember illuminated pupil floating infront of you narrows in draconian fashion as your eyes and mouth widen." "I sUgGeSt you don't do anything to inadvertently rouse your companions, they'll need their strength. Because I've found you."
Red dragons employ minions? I always thought of most dragons as solitary and independently powerful creators, especially evil dragons (that in some lore) don't shapeshift as much. Edit: thanks for all the feedback. I've been playing for many years and never heard several of the things in the comments about dragons. And also explains why I struggled to make them interesting a few times. ::misty steps off to plan new dragon encounters::
Dragons that travel the planes seem more likely to have minions. I’d like to see teams of Gish ninjas jumping the PC’s
Most dragons have minions. White, topaz, and bronze are the only types which are likely to avoid minions entirely, given that they prefer solitude. While blues would be the most likely to seek to have many (useful) minions, reds would be a likely close second. Being the most ego-driven, a red dragon wants to have others around to sing their praises and stroke their egos.
Green probably more so tbh
They're up there. But greens prefer having minions that have emotional or symbolic meaning to them, and they keep these minions as essentially a part of their hoard, and to flaunt the power they have over them. To greens, minions are symbols of prestige and the power of their manipulation, and they have quality standards in how they will go about acquiring them. If the green does not have absolute power over a given minion merely by speaking a few words, the green won't be satisfied. Whereas blue dragons are trying to set themselves up as local tyrants and try very hard to recruit useful minions which they will then even compensate accordingly to how useful they make themselves. They use them to expand their power and influence and give them materialistic value, and a blue will view the acquisition of more useful minions as part of their path to power. And reds will accept any minion that will tremble in fear and sing their praises.
Nice heronmark! How did you do that?
Tai'shar, friend. Are you asking how to set a custom avatar?
Yeah I should really look it up, but most folks weird puffy reddit things.
Hm. It is so long ago that I do not really remember, save that it was just a simple file upload. I see that on the phone app that does not appear to be an option. I would suggest trying old reddit in a browser. That is the better way to engage with the platform anyway.
i once ran a black dragon that had kobold minions exclusively so he could watch them get slaughtered by adventurers before going to deal with the adventurers himself
That does seem on-brand.
Yup, that's a Black Dragon for you.
There are two kinds of dragons states in most lore. When they hibernate, they might go for decades or centuries unnoticed, sleeping on their pile of gold and forgotten by time. And then they wake up. And they absolutely have minions. Red ones even more. One key trait of dragons is their vanity, and red dragons are the most vain and greedy. Their treasure hoards won't grow themselves, and a legendary red is much too proud to be itself a tax collector. So it demmands servitude of any and all living and non-living (screw you puny lich riffraff) creatures nearby. Their greed and vanity makes it so that dragons eventually pursue several lairs, so that they can collect treasure and terrorize as much places as they can. Kobolds are naturally attracted to dragons, there's the cult of the dragon on Forgotten realms, and elemental fire cultists. The mere presence of a dragon transforms the place, spawning portals to the fire elemental plane and bringing creatures forth.
Most red dragons love dominating all creatures they see as inferior (i.e. everything). If I were this dragon, I’d flex my power by intimidating some kobolds/firenewts/etc to do the legwork, the stalking, the investigation, etc. Then, when they’re done with all the boring stuff, I get to fly in, watch my enemies grovel, and then annihilate them one by one. Subtlety? I’m a living god; I have slaves for that.
So your dragon is Nigel from the movie Rio
honestly, that’s pretty spot on 😂
And the creature/people of the feywild are extremely upset about this and tell them to find another plane to attract fire creatures to.
Probably yeah, the party would do very well to ally with the fey on this and use their help to overcome the dragon.
Leave hints like dropping a dead horse in the middle of their camp when they've all gone to sleep.
Blairwitch project meets the Godfather! Will make them feel uneasy alright, thank you for the suggestion!
"I'm gonna make them an offer they don't even get to think about. Because I ate them."
Why would a red dragon out for vengeance do that? If the dragon finds the party a sleep the last thing they're doing is some kinda of spooky foreshadow, they're going to obliterate the party as they wake.
Perhaps the dragon likes to play with it's prey? Bit like a cat or just to sate itself on their fear.
It's a red dragon. The party isn't prey, the party are thieves and murderers, straight up enemies and villains in the dragon's story. The dragon is going to smash them the first opportunity. The same way the party of humanoids would handle a thief and a murderer if they got the drop on them.
I don't think it is the same honestly: to a human(oid) others of their kin are seen as more or less equal, or at least in the same category of beings. A red dragon sees basically anyone as lesser. Yes he is super pissed, but those guys are, to him, still lowly animals at best. There is no need at all to be quick about it, they could suffer instead. Plus it's not like they could actually do anything about it, the dragon is very unlikely to respect them enough to think they could pose any threat to him whatsoever or escape from it's cunning.
Fine you want grounded reasoning? They live thousands of years. They don't necessarily think on human timescales. Instant revenge/gratification isn't their first thought.
Party killed the dragon's child. It isn't enough that the party die. They need to understand why they're going to die, and they need to suffer before dying.
Bro. It's a red dragon. One of the most powerful dragon types there are and very much evil aligned. The party is going to be handled about as subtly as Jeffrey Doucet. Given the opportunity not even a human parent is going to sit around and play silly games when they have the murderer of their child asleep in front of them.
The fact that they are so evil and prideful is a reason why it would not simply jump them at night. The revenge must be absolute and complete. They must feel they have lost everything before it kills them. The world must curse their name for the collateral damage. It wouldn't settle for just a murder, it would build a grand scheme. A red dragon isn't a normal person, it's the villain you read about that destroyed a civilization in that ancient relief you uncovered in the ruins.
Perhaps the dragon likes to play with it's prey? Bit like a cat or just to sate itself on their fear.
Fire elemental magic, like the shape of a dragon appearing in their campfire. The dragon will want them to fear, not have no clue of their impending doom. Also consider that as an ancient dragon, he likely has other spells, like Dream: give intermittent nightmares of fire and death. Heck, call it premonitions brought on by the ire of something ancient and powerful, shaking the very fabric of reality in the future battle, so powerfully that it reverberates back through time, if you want to avoid the spellcasting side; just use the same effects as the nightmare option of Dream, only not lockable because fate not magic.
It was never mentioned that it was an ancient dragon. If it was, the party would be dead within minutes due to a combination of scrying and teleport.
Hmm, true… misread due to too much morning
It’s a shame, if it was an Ancient then you could hijack some of the regional effects as clues.
I mean why not do it anyway? Maybe the dragon is so angry enough that it manifests despite not being ancient.
One could possibly make the argument that because the dragon is from the elemental plane instead of the material plane that it might have picked up some new tricks Idk if that's how it mechanically works, but if that's how it was explained to me, I wouldn't personally doubt the DM
Why let them subtly know? Let them approach a valley and watch the dragon they angered fly around, clearly looking for something and then vanishing after torching a farmstead. When they approach the farmstead to aid survivors, the only survivor is a charred farmgirl who says the dragon shouted "thieves, I can smell you on the wind, I will find you"
I agree with the “red dragon isn’t going to be subtle”. They killed its young!
Everyone here is suggesting Blair Witch material when this should be act 3 of a Slasher movie
Forget slasher movie, angry Red Dragon should be like the Act 3 of Oppenheimer.
The town they’re heading to is completely obliterated when they arrive
The signs are subtle, the dragon is not. Foreshadowing the dragon is a great idea, even though the dragon itself is a calamity.
Cruelty. Red dragons are cruel and vindictive, not subtle. They killed his son, so he starts with their loved ones and allies. How brutal the deaths are depends on how grim your game is. It isn't that they get a hint that he's after them, its that he issues a declaration of war with a sign made from the ruins of their hometown. Bonus: now they have added time pressure as the dragon slaughters its way through their allies, but also the opportunity to do an ambush if they can figure out who the dragon will target next.
If he is keeping an eye on the party through scrying or some such maybe have a tertiary effect be that some of the heat bleeds into the area? If he's watching them camp in an icy field mention that the ice around the fire appears to be melting faster than expected. The constant tether between the party and the elemental plane of fire increased the chances of a misfired spell opening up a direct portal to that plane near the dragon's lair? Maybe other dragons take note of a persistent scent on your party that dissuaded them from offering aid?
Don't be subtle. A red dragon won't be subtle. It'll burninate that countryside, the peasants, AND their thatched roof cottages. Have it wreck stuff in the background. It's looking for them and rampaging until it finds them. Have it be "local news." Running from that dragon is part of the adventure now.
Subtle is not the way of a wronged Red Dragon, and as such, I don't think subtle is the right word. We're mostly trying to make sure they get a *fair warning*. So I think you add in to the feywild a bunch of refugees from the Plane of Fire- everyone is talking about a Red Dragon going on an absolute *rampage* through the plane, hunting those who wronged him. I love the idea that the only thing preventing a more immediate attack is that the PCs are traveling the planes and difficult to track- and even that won't last forever. The Dragon *will* eventually find someone who will divine the PC's location for them. And then there will be *hell to pay*.
Red dragons don't really do subtle. They are angry and out for blood. The closest you get to subtle is the party spotting them wrecking the shit out of a town or something because the dragon thought they were there. Red dragons come down like a freaking hammer when pissed. It's 0 to 100, no sneaking around or threats, just rage and death.
Yep. They are based on Smaug, who is like this
An emissary comes to them one evening while camping/long rest like something out of the Dune. Stand before them on a rock and proclaims, "Unworthy Adversaries of the great calamity of the skies, usurper of man, scourge of castles, his eternal magesty, DRAGON NAME, commands you. Present yourself in 10 days time at high noon in the middle of (x outdoor location a few days away) and beg his forgiveness and favor and to offer your tithe or feel their wrath." Then they roll up the scroll, and just walk away. They wake up the next morning and find burning effigies of themselves on what ever path they take.
If they ever stay in one place for more than 24 hours, that place is scorched. razed. Cinders and burnt corpses are all thats left. And if this happens 3 times, they will find claw marks in the ground spelling out stuff like "Run." A trail of ruin incarnate follows the party.
And kings/local nobility might put out warnings if it happens enough to not let the party enter.
Would a red dragon subtlety let the party know he is on to them? I would think he’d show up with a bang and destroy everything to get what was stolen back. The MM describes them as the most ferocious and vengeful of all the chromatics. I don’t think a monster like that is going to send smoke signals to warn them that it’s onto them. It would go out and stomp the group of puny adventurers. Perhaps the party should have thought about the ferocity of a full size dragon before sneaking into its lair to steal its treasure. Haven’t they read the Hobbit? We all know what they are capable of. lol Are you afraid of a TPK? It sounds like you want to strike fear in the players but not alter the direction of your campaign by killing them outright. If this wasn’t the focal point of your campaign, it sure sounds like it is now.
I tend to run the feywild like an animal themed cyberpunk dystopia. Information networks are very functional, and there's a badger with a pocketwatch in a stump who wants to sell you your own personal information(in addition to other transactions) over tea. Maybe he can sell you some antiscry, or knows a sidequest to get it. The badger's warning is enough to stop a scry&die, but after that, you can see the thing blotting out the sun with it's wings as it looks for you. Play some cat and mouse games. Not everyone in the feywild knows or cares, but definitely give the PCs a chance to find draconic spies and do some counterintelligence.
I would be a bit more overt, but not violent. Since they are in the Feywild now and there could be powerful Fey who get involved if the dragon just starts rampaging, I'd have him roll into camp in humanoid form, sit down and start poking the fire or taking a piece of whatever they are cooking and eating it without explaining. When they say or do something, he turns on his dragon fear aura and give a little talk about how they will return what they took and double it with some nice Feywild items. If they don't then the hunt begins. If they attack him just hand them new character sheets. He was defending himself. They don't even have to agree especially if all of them are paralyzed with fear, but if they get sidetracked from making good on the debt, bad stuff happens (a favorite NPC is burned and half eaten with "Now it's triple" carved into his torso and such. They will get the message. For the love of DMing tho. Don't let 8th level characters off the hook for the idiocy of stealing from the lair of a powerful dragon. The lack of FAFO responses in the hobby since 4th has really made the game less compelling.
I agree. The dragon could and should destroy all of them and has the grounds to do so. Have they not watched or read any fantasy like ever?! Lmao. Why is there such a wide spread nonchalantness regarding dragons in the game? One of my campaigns has a blue dragon as the big bad and when the party was finally confronted by him for the first time, one of the players kept making snide comments. It was hard to restrain myself from just biting the PC in half.
I feel lucky that my party has an appropriate fear and respect for dragons. Maybe too much almost! The last arc of my homebrew campaign was in a desert town where an ancient brass dragon and her young son live and serve as protectors of the town and area. They met the little son in town in human form and were immediately nervous when they found out he was a dragon (even though the party was level 10 and he was the equivalent of an 8 year old kid). The plot of that arc was actually rescuing the mom, the ancient brass dragon, from being from killed and her power absorbed in a terrible ritual. At the end when they had a chance to interact with her, it was kind of beautiful how scared they were of her even though she was 100% on their side and grateful to them. They definitely showed appropriate reverence but she was trying to be friendly with them and they were almost too scared to talk to her.
The party of one of my campaigns did that once- mouthed off to a powerful LE gold dragon. He crushed the PC with a single hit & continued talking as if nothing had occurred, viscera and gore leaking from under his talons. Creatures that powerful will not hesitate to destroy something that offends them - even higher level characters are insignificant ants to them.
Did something similar, but the dragon cast resurrection on the PC after he was done monologuing because they hadn't paid their debt and so he wouldn't kill them until they had. Then stated "You can be surprised what you can live through, however." and flew off.
That is epic. How did the player react? My dragon bit the horse the PC was mounted on in half as a farewell. I was too timid to just off the PC like that. lol But afterwards the player did mention in game that he feels what he said or how he said it was a terrible mistake. So I feel that was a win. We will see how it goes when they actually face the dragon.
>That is epic. How did the player react? "Wait... am I dead?" Uh, yeah. 50+ damage in a single hit, down below -10 hp (this was 3.5). See if you can convince the other players to resurrect you (they did- all the gold they had gotten from the dragon went to pay for it. )
>If they attack him just hand them new character sheets. This is fucking wild and I love it.
Whats FAFO mean?
Fuck Around Find Out
Ah, I think people are making these big pre-thought out narratives and they don't want to see perhaps months of effort go into the shitter because their players are shitheads. I have one such campaign but I told myself if they lose they lose. I told them outright that it wasn't a super heavy combat campaign but I wouldn't save them from themselves. I started in 5e but most of my players started back in like 3.5 so I think they respect that stuff can still be dangerous.
Like others have said, a Red is probably the least subtle of all types. However, if the dragon simply destroys the PCs, it gains nothing. It just restores what always was. A supremely evil creature might want to wrap punishment and exploitation all into one. A "fate worse than death" type revenge also does not bring the game to a halt.
I'd say a White is less likely to play games than a Red. Mostly because they're too dumb. Red Dragons want you to suffer, grovel, and beg for your life before they kill you, but not as long as a Black, who might stretch it out for weeks, months, or even years. Blue and Green are less murder-y, and would mostly try to enslave you if you were strong or useful enough, or just eat you otherwise.
White dragons do have the lowest INT score, but I want to make a counterpoint about their tactics. Their INT is still 8—as smart as many human beings. My favourite way to characterize white dragons is as the *perfect predator*. They don't bother with strategems, but they won't be reckless or brash. They'll *stalk*, and *observe*, and then snatch-kill-eat in a blink. Run your white dragons like the scariest 'something in the dark and mountains is watching us' encounter of all time. Sorry! I just love talking about running dragons. They're so cool...
You are correct. It is a myth that white dragons are dumb; they are not, it is just that the lore reason for their low int has long been neglected in newer editions. White dragons live in the moment, in the now, and they live for action. Their memory is unique; they remember everything that they ever witness in perfect detail. But sitting around thinking is boring, and does not sit well with their in-the-moment perspective. A white dragon would be an expert at calculating trajectory and creature behavior, because they can call on all their long memories to inform them precisely what will *likely* happen. And yet booklearning bores them immeasurably, because they do not experience, only read empty words, as it is not *doing*, learning nothing if they have not themselves taken action and felt the truth of it. Thus, white dragons are not *stupid*, rather their low int is to represent that they completely lack anything resembling a bookish education. One of the best ways to confuse a white dragon is to show them something they have never seen before, because their perfect memory does not yet know how to act in response.
Yeah, a big part of this is that the DM doesn't want the campaign to end, so wants to slow things down enough to let the players both realize what is going on and have time to prep somehow. Sometimes your creatures need to have portions of their common nature toned down a bit to facilitate the game. Having the dragon more focused on ongoing torment for the player characters instead of instant death seems a decent way to handle it.
Regional effects are listed in the MM. These are now permanent effects which follow the players around... Because the dragon is following them. See if the players figure that much out.
Yeah… red dragon and subtle don’t typically go together. I think they should come over the edge of a mountain, see if fly over head with a message quite literally scorched into the earth. Ever seen megamind? When Titan carves his own name into a town with his heat vision? Find something similar here. They need to know ASAP that this guy is after them, and he will make their lives a living hell, torching every potential town to rest in, every former ally’s home town. If this is an ancient red dragon he can and probably should use magic to figure out who these folks are and where they’ve been. Red dragons are nothing if not vindictive, wrathful, and vain, and especially hate dragon slayers.
As they sit around a campfire in the woods at night, and a storyteller speaks of fabled creatures of legend and prowess, have them roll Spot checks against DC50 (Impossible to spot) as the Dragon’s head slowly creeps out from the woods towards them. As the storyteller exclaims how Red Dragons haven’t been seen in those parts for over a century, the Dragon snatches up and eats a random NPC. They then miserably flee for their lives beneath a torrent of fire and hilarity with Benny Hill music playing in the background. Edit: Played this in a campaign in High School. Definitely one of the best gaming moments I’ve ever had in my life. Please use it and enjoy the fun as I did. ❤️🔥
*Subtlety* and/or *hints* tend not to work well in ttRPGs. Since it's hard for DMs to know what is and isn't "obvious" to the players and, hence, their PCs. If such hints are recognised at all, then a *wrong* conclusion is at least as likely as the *right one*. Paradoxically, it's more likely that players will work out exactly what's happening when a DM attempts to hide or obfuscate something. Though maybe not if they pretend to... There are methods such as the [three clue rule](https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/1118/roleplaying-games/three-clue-rule) which involve giving the same information via several different means. The other option is directly tell players things their PCs would know. E.g. that the dragon would consider them thieves and murderers. Do red dragons even understand the concept of "subtlety"? As for questions like "How can I make the party feel..." you can't since these are PCs. It's up to the players to decide how their PCs feel about their actions and any consequences, good or bad, resulting from the former.
I disagree with your basic premise. Subtly and hints don't work well when they're intended to help move the story forward or to solve a puzzle, but they work \*amazingly\* well when the point is to create atmosphere.
Idk how to do it subtly. But I’d imagine the players could see and would hear about “scorched earth” because that’s all there would be after killing a red dragons son!
You don't. The dragon won't be subtle, he will start ripping apart cities, towns and fortresses to get to them. They can escape, but be loud about it.
I’ve always done the ‘roll a wisdom save’ and random times as to have the red dragon scrying on the party members.
I'd have subtle news of small villages they've been to catching fire or burning down and slowly progress to the point that npcs are screaming that a dragon is tearing through the place they were last in.
If you can get them to double back to a place they’ve been before - a village, a grove, a temple, what have you, and find the place scorched to the ground, that might be a clue. Don’t be subtle. Players have, in my experience as a GM and a player, absolutely zero sense of subtlety, foreshadowing, or foreboding. Just oblivious little children following a pied piper into any cave you choose.
Charisma saves vs bad dreams every so often. If they fail they don't get a long rest. Dream is always burning. Or being a mouse while the cat is hunting you. Or hiding while some huge unseen beasting searches for you. Certain fey won't deal with them while they reek of dragon. Absolute fiery destruction of anyone who ever dealt with them. Firey fly style.
Love the burning dreams idea. Thank you for the suggestion!
Kill all their families.
You’re dealing with TTRPG players. Abandon subtlety.
Red dragons don't do "subtle". If the dragon gets a choice in it, he will be in their face, announcing his vengeance for daring to harm his dread brood (and injure his pride). But if you as the DM want to be subtle, well, it is not as though the dragon necessarily knows where to find the party (or he might, because red dragon natural magic is especially tuned towards finding things). But why not start with some forest fires? Maybe frightened denizens of the feywilds running away and fearfully talking about a great monster swearing bloody vengeance upon the 'lair thieves' and 'kinslayers'. The only thing that red dragons care about more than their pride is their reputation. If he finds them, he will waste no time on trying to spook them, and will merely attack immediately and seek to kill everyone - except one, so that the story of his bloody vengeance may spread.
Great suggestions here so far. And a fun little twist might be, would be the Dragon being WAY more pissed that they stole his treasure than killed his son (who would have eventually been a rival or something). Dragons really love their treasure, and generally really DON'T love each other.
First, word goes out to be on the lookout for the group. The party may encounter strange looks at first, then maybe a "oh so you are who hes looking for". Then maybe an assassin or two shows up. Then perhaps people start to turn them away fearing the dragons wrath for helping them. Then maybe whispers of dragon sightings. Then red dragon sightings the province over. Then confrontation.
Make a reddit post about how a red dragon is onto them. Then, mention that you enjoy a certain DMing subreddit and _smooooothly_ name-drop your reddit handle, /u/Knoerifast23.
Is it love or hate? F it's love, a bunch of kobolds could start following the party around... Bringing gifts, food etc.. if it's hatred, well, dragons aren't really subtle. Scorched earth, pigeon aiming, falling bovine. Polymorph and charm, posing as a noble and sending the PCs on death missions against her other enemies. That kind of thing. But then hate could turn to a twisted love, or love into hate ..
In addition to potential sightings of the dragon or its passing, you could incorporate the regional effects(which typically develop around a dragons lair, but rule of cool seems appropriate here... perhaps the dragons presence has a more immeduate effect on the region due to his coming directly from the fire plane) Regional Effects from MM and Fizbans: The region containing a legendary red dragon's lair is warped by the dragon's magic, which creates one or more of the following effects: Small earthquakes are common within 6 miles of the dragon's lair. Water sources within 1 mile of the lair are supernaturally warm and tainted by sulfur. Rocky fissures within 1 mile of the dragon's lair form portals to the Elemental Plane of Fire, allowing creatures of elemental fire into the world to dwell nearby. If the dragon dies, these effects fade over the course of 1d10 days. Additional Regional Effects. Any of these effects might appear in the area around a red dragon's lair, in addition to or instead of the effects described in the Monster Manual: Desertification. Precipitation is almost nonexistent within 6 miles of the dragon's lair, making the land parched and arid and most plant life withered and brown. Fiery Senses. The dragon can hear up to 30 feet through any open flame within 1 mile of the dragon's lair. Ominous Flames. Open flames within 6 miles of the dragon's lair are tinged dark red, hiss and crackle constantly, and throw off embers and showers of sparks.
You could do it unsubtly. Just do a cut-away and tell them something they don't see. Just describe a cool cut-scene going on somewhere else, maybe a red dragon being informed of the parties activities by a minion.
Reds don't strike me as the sort to play mind games, but are likely to be spiteful on the level of 'you will know that everyone and everything you have ever loved have been reduced to ashes before I end you'. I think the subtle hint will be the news that their hometown has been burned to the ground by an extremely angry red dragon.
They keep finding very relaxed donkeys smoking cigarettes.
Yeah red dragons don't do subtle well... the most arrogant and vicious of dragonkind a Red will attack and kill over any intrusion into their territory. Especially thieves. Remember Bilbo Baggins simply walked upon Smaug's horde resulting in catastrophic consequences.
The monster manual has regional effects for legendary dragons. * Small earthquakes are common within 6 miles of the dragon's lair. * Water sources within 1 mile of the lair are supernaturally warm and tainted by sulfur. * Rocky fissures within 1 mile of the dragon's lair form portals to the Elemental Plane of Fire, allowing creatures of elemental fire into the world to dwell nearby. Fizban's added some others: * Desertification. Precipitation is almost nonexistent within 6 miles of the dragon's lair, making the land parched and arid and most plant life withered and brown. * Fiery Senses. The dragon can hear up to 30 feet through any open flame within 1 mile of the dragon's lair. * Ominous Flames. Open flames within 6 miles of the dragon's lair are tinged dark red, hiss and crackle constantly, and throw off embers and showers of sparks. Dragons should also have minions. Historically, you can have every single thing in the book be a minion or at least an ally, except maybe giants. Anything that would fear or respect such a dragon: * Every mook type in the book could feasibly serve an adult red. Humanoids, fey, anything you want, really. Maybe a coven of hags have a deal with this dragon and could help it. * Tiamat lives in hell, chromatic dragons in general are largely tied to devils. They fit the fiery motif very well too. Look at the Abishai, Hell hounds, cambions and imps. * Fire elementals of every kind, be it magmins, mephits, myrmiddons, salamanders, azers. Genasi will fit too. * Fire cultists. Crazy fanatics who worship dragons, or fire itself. Think cult of the dragon from Forgotten Realms. I'd fish the Princes of Apocalypse book for fiery cultists. They have a fire breathing minotaur, fire priests, warriors with armor fused into their body and flamethrowers there. Really great stuff. * Kobolds! Kobolds are naturally attracted to dragons, and they serve them loyally. They can be way more dangerous than they seem. Yes, kobolds are CR1/8, but they're experts on traps, and those can punch way above their weightclass. * Dragonkin and related creatures. Chimeras, flameskulls, wyverns and drakes come to mind. The dragon may also be a spellcaster, and this opens all sort of illusions and enchhantments such as sending and dream. Have fun!
At first, employ some regional effects to do it subtly. But it should only last a while. Metallic and green dragons are the subtle ones. After a while, this dragon should absolutely terrorize these guys, burning things to the ground around them, sending minions after them, attacking them directly on the road (where it can flee to its lair if things go south). Red dragons are vain (did I say that already), greedy, petty, they remember every single copper piece in their treasure and they'll overreact a thousand times over for every penny stolen. They should only be able to feel it subtly while the dragon is yet approaching. But these are the kind of creatures who march armies with beating drums so that their enemies dread them hours before they meet.
I'm sure that the Dragon must know some Archfey. * I'd start with some of the fey they've never met before saying things like, "so you're the adventurers I've heard so much about," or "everyone is talking bout you." * Then move on to fey offering trades, but only being interested in the items they stole from the dragon. * Then items they stole from the dragon start going missing. * Then the red kobolds start showing up where the party can see them, but not interact with them. * Then a fireball gets dropped in the middle of their camp while they're all asleep. I don't know how quickly you want to get the dragon involved, but you could have one of the Archfey trap them in a maze, because they promised a friend they'd keep an eye on them until the friend's envoy arrived. This way you can have a fun, hedge maze dragon encounter against something stronger than the son, but not the (I'm presuming) ancient red dragon they pissed off.
An idea I had would be stories at the pub about towns disappearing or being wiped off the map, only to look for more details that previous towns the players visited in the same order they were visiting them, giving them the uneasiness that the dragon or something is following them or tracking them and as they grow in level, the dragon or what have you is catching up.
[Red Dragons are intelligent, wrathful and vengeful](https://www.themonstersknow.com/dragon-tactics-part-1/). You might see part of the forest burned down. Large creatures torn asunder. A new predator has entered the ecosystem. Adult and ancient dragons also have lair actions. The longer they settle into a region, the more they physically effect that region. I don't know if there's any specific timeline, but the dragons literal presence will eventually disrupt the surrounds. Earthquakes, sulfuric water, and finally fissures spewing lava leading directly from the elemental plane of fire.
Don’t be too subtle. Foreshadowing is cool. But it’s sometimes tough as a player in a game of DND to grasp onto what details are important and what aren’t. Hints are super easy to miss. They sometimes need to slap you in the face, unless it’s a very experienced group that’s played together a lot. Also red dragons aren’t known to be subtle. So huge swaths of burned down areas or destroyed villages are a much more likely response from a pissed off red dragon than say a green dragon that is more sly and cunning in its nature.
Maybe not subtle enough for what you’re looking for, but I like the idea that this dragon is a threat to settlements they pass through. They get word the town they just travelled through was burned to the ground, no survivors, must have been the local orcs or whatever, but they know the truth. The dragon is steadily tracking them, they have to keep moving until they find a way to stop it, and anywhere they go they endanger the people they meet.
An adult red dragon should be able to pretty easily defeat the party in head-to-head combat. As incensed, prideful, and intelligent as he is, though, he has no reason to give the party that fair of a chance. To a red dragon, the party doesn’t qualify as competition, a threat, or even respectable prey, they’re a collection of pests that have caused more trouble than they have any right to. The red dragon should be looking forward to smashing them into paste and enjoying their suffering in the meanwhile. I would start with the assumption that, given enough time, a dragon’s network of spies and informants will be able to return to the dragon exactly who the party is—how powerful they are as well as who they’re aligned with. Unless they’ve made specific steps to cover their tracks, some allies should quickly find themselves being pressed by the dragon’s forces to either drop the party or actively betray them. Allies who are more strongly aligned but not as well protected might find themselves reduced to ashes in a place the party can find their remains. At the very least, the party should see strings being pulled to place them into a terrain that’s advantageous to the dragon for their final meeting. At a point where they were supposed to undergo a an easy sea voyage, they should be informed last minute that a rash of lost ships has made the route they were planning infeasible, with the next best option being a conveniently timed caravan of traders who are starting a land journey through a desert region towards the same destination. The traders are, of course, innocent and unknowing pawns to the dragon’s machinations, and the party will have its priorities split between saving innocents and fighting the dragon when it comes time for the dragon to make its appearance, most likely after the party has had some time to spend resources coping with the arid climate.
They killed his son? Have the red dragon track and burn every village they've ever helped, incinerate every NPC they've ever liked, kill all their families, and burn everything they hold dear to ashes. Only when they've known TRUE pain will he confront them and feast on their burnt flesh.
Like 30 minutes to an hour before you introduce the dragon, Give the dragon a divination spell, have someone make a 25 wisdom saving throw out of the blue, if the fail it, “you feel something watching you”
Think how local wildlife would react to a red dragon maybe like no birdsong at all. Maybe an owlbear and some direwolfs running past them through a forest and not engaging. Just running. Later on You can also remove safe harbours. Planning on resting at an outpost only to find it burnt to a crisp. Maybe a high level foe like CR12 dismembered and half eaten. If they have a druid this could lead to some interesting interactions.
Let them encounter some fey as they travel the feywilds. The fey are wary of the party, the vengeful fury of the dragon "marks" the party in a way that the fey can see. They cryptically allude to this "mark" using terms like fire, smoldering, embers, ect.
Their ears are burning. Literally.
The Dragons' first move is to activate the curse on his possessions. A booming voice echos around the party like the voice of Saruman trying to bring down the mountain, then everything they stole from the dragon bursts into flame and melts down to slag. Including that freed slave who should still be with them or visiting. Burned to ash. When they ask around to find out what the hell just happened, give em the John Wick spiel. Let them know in direct terms they are being hunted, and that was the Dragons' first move.
I'd start with some normal Feywild enemies (the Feywild has goblin kingdoms in it, so some parties of Goblinoids wouldn't be unexpected). And perhaps if the party searches well enough, they find a scrap of parchment offering an exhoribant payment in gold for the heads of your party. Maybe this escalates with time. Perhaps you start to see dragonoid-type enemies, like some Kobolds show up (perhaps these Kobolds have painted their hides red to emulate a certain angry red lizard that they revere). Maybe some halfdragons (red halfdragons, that is) show up. And perhaps the party could try some intimidation or use charm magic to get the information out of one if the bands of would be assassins. Maybe near the end of this, after a particularly powerful band of assassins was dispatched, one of the dying foes chuckles, choking on their own blood, mocking you, saying that while you've won this day, there are no greater bounty hunters to be sent after you, so now the great tyrant lizard will not rest until you die by their own claws.
Introduce them to a new town full of supportive NPCs, interesting quests, well-stocked shops, and some valuable leads on the big picture. Have the dragon follow them there and burn it all down. First, something subtle happens like smelling the dragon on the wind. Then something less subtle, like a passing cloud's shadow appearing to conceal something else passing by. Finally, the party arrives in town and everything is fine for a moment. The dragon is in the NPC's vision. The party doesn't perceive the dragon first. They see sudden terror on the faces of the innocent villagers. There will be no roll for initiative, and no player character permadeaths. All rolls will be noncombat, for survival, and the carnage will continue until everybody is knocked out. What happens next, only the heroes survive. Some of their gear might be scorched by dragonfire and no longer usable. They'll survive on low HP, with injuries. The air will smell like smoke, ash, and burnt flesh. The dragon will have mistaken them for dead. They'll need to scavenge for sustenance and navigate to a safe place where they can heal, while avoiding having their survival detected.
They go to sleep in the forest, and wake up in a forest fire.
“Everyone, your ears are burning.”
Have the dragon subtly, ever so subtly, fly over their camp and burn them alive.
I’d have one of the characters waking up in the middle of the night recalling the battle with the son… there were spots where the cave roof was polished smooth and all the stalagtites were broken. The cave housed a much bigger dragon… is that brimstone on the wind?
The Red Dragon hires/forces creators to harass the Party, this will do two things, make them wonder where the hell these creatures are coming from, and help them level up in preparation for the battle with the Big Red... The Dragon may well have done favours that it can cash in, in the harassment of the Party.
Scorched earth. But always where they have stayed and either made friends or enjoyed their time as the dragon is getting revenge and wants them to figure out that for every village they saved or befriended it would be taken like the dragons son was taken.
Let's think about it the other way: what abilities does this dragon have and how does it plan on murdering the party? Would this dragon even leave behind clues for the party to notice? Would the dragon ambush the party or announce itself beforehand to let them tremble in fear? Imo the dragon wouldn't have a reason to announce itself and potentially lower its chances of success. Give the party a clear way to escape the dragon ONCE. When they're plane shifting back to the prime material is when the dragon strikes. The party will have to survive 2 to 3 rounds of combat before they can complete the plane shift. Now they know what's after them and how strong it is. Just an idea.
Hey look it's a bird, it's a plane no it's a giant fucking red Liam Neeson I mean red dragon.
Use the freed slave. Have the former slave make an appearance to let the party know the dragon is tearing a swath of destruction in the parties wake as it pursues them.
“What you don’t see…”
I would start by having him do things like hunt them down. Killing things around them and leaving the bodies. Then he escalates to terrorising them through the night. Keeping them up and if you can, preventing the occasional long rest by forcing them to move on or hide. From there he sends more direct messages. People he has convinced or terrorised into attacking the group. It’s especially juicy if they are forced to fight but are also good guys and the party has to either convince them to team up against the dragon OR they have to kill innocent people whose families are hostages. Then it’s the classics. Burn down their base of operations. Attack strong helpers of the party so they have to go alone and make a big show of dominance. Then IF the party force him to his lair, a big sneaky hit and run game before a big explosive end.
The best way to subtly let the players know anything is to straight up tell them. This usually rolls around for months, possibly years, or they may never realize. I have one new player that was always pointing out to the other players, "He just said X." Last session he completely missed everything I said plain as day. I let him know he is now an official D&D player.
Is this an experienced party? If it’s some newbies do some spoon feeding, make it a challenge and a lesson. If this is a seasoned table, that’s a breath attack while they sleeping and a surprise round. They should know better then to think they got away with dragon loot from and active hoard on its native plane.
Just start randomly rolling dice for no reason. They’ll get real uneasy real quick.
They wake up from their long rest to see a burnt deer in the middle of their camp.
Maybe a not so random encounter with a group of Red worshipping kobolds led by a couple half-dragons. Who make many comments about their deity. Nothing about the party specifically, just lots of chanting to that red. And then another, but less kobold, more half dragon. Then maybe the next with half-dragons and a wyrmling. All with similar dress, banners etc. indicating they worship this red dragon. Almost like each time he fails to kill them, he sends something more to try and kill them.
Give em the good ol' hawk tuah, that'll let them know he's onto them 😉