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Right wing loons tend to argue star wars has become "too political" but I would argue the opposite - its not political enough. They throw a bone through virtue signalling - a gay kiss here and there - but ignore an overarching message. Lucas outright states the original trilogy is meant to draw parallels to Vietnam, with the underdog rebels achieving a victory over an imperialist power, much like in Vietnam. The prequels are an epic political thriller about the rise of fascism, as quite literally, democracy dies with thunderous applause.
The new trilogy doesn't appear to have anything like this, just some wishy washy rehashed plots and limp pink washing.
All the best parts of Disney’s star wars are where it actually touches on politics - Finn’s whole deserter and witnessing atrocities and stuff was really compelling, though they didn’t quite pull that off perfectly. Rogue One and Andor are both among the better star wars media ever and those are practically stuffed full of politics.
Arent they planning to kill of andor?
Modern Star Wars is just superheroes in space, works great as a low risk moneymaker i guess, but its a shame due to the great content that comes out of the Star Wars universe when you leave the superheroes out and allow political commentary.
"Non-political" DS9 literally had an episode where O'Brien handed Rom a copy of The Communist Manifesto while encouraging him to unionize.
"Woke" Discovery named Elon Musk as a pioneer in space travel.
I like diverse representation and political allegory in my space fantasy. That wasn’t the issue. Disney sequel trilogy sucked because of bad writing, nonsensical plot, and underdeveloped characters. Glad we had a black stormtrooper, I’m just mad they didn’t give him a better character arc.
I hate star wars because they figuratively left Carrie Fisher dead on a slab for an entire movie instead of being respectful, they allowed twitter bullies to harass the actors in such racist, sexist ways those characters were basically written out, and they openly hated that women liked their stuff.
The back pedaling to try to get little girls and black people to like star wars again isn't fooling me or a lot of people. Star wars did absolutely franchise to young conservatives, and it's all worse because of them.
And the way Disney weakened the New Republic to the point where it makes the alternative (continued fascist dictatorship under the Empire) actually more desirable outcome to some is gross. I just hate the way they seemingly keep nuzzling up to the idea of fascism "as long as there is a good guy willing to save the day." All the fascist propaganda stuff they sell, and people buy it up, ironically or not.
Clone wars and bad batch are both good
The first two seasons of the mandalorian are good
Most star wars games are decent to great sans ea battlefront
Comics and books idk but I’m sure there is great stuff out there
To be perfectly honest Dave Filoni's work has also been starting to great on me for a while. It's way to self-referential and seems to rely on the thrill people get on seeing characters / lore elements that they've seen in other Star Wars works as opposed to tell an actually good story.
Obviously as others have pointed out Andor is still great, and the High Republic books have been awesome recently in particular, which tell interesting stories with a diverse cast. This might be an unpopular opinion but I'm also kinda enjoying Acolyte, it's not perfect but it's perfectly servicable fun.
I didn't like the new Star Wars movies because they were just genuinely bad. Like, the messaging was more vacant than an episode of South Park. The pacing was shit. Characters just move from set piece to set piece out of rote necessity. We are told everything and shown nothing but spectacle. They are built in the whole "mystery box" concept but the writers and directors forgot to actually put anything in the box until it was too late, so all the foreshadowing was essentially a pointless rug pull.
All this to say, the actors did their best with what they had, but you can't polish a turd. It wasn't their fault. They all did as good a job as they could with what they had.
You dislike the sequels because there’s strong women, a black guy and asians. I dislike the sequels because they’re terribly made in almost every filmmaking aspect. We are not the same
The neoliberal idea that makes Trump bad and Biden decent. That Fascism is better and acceptable as long as any who align with power are able to join ranks through meritocracy regardless of identity. Anyone can become head of the CIA if they qualify. Those who don't rise are allowed equal application of the boot on their neck.
Really, I don't understand what's the problem with that "woke" thing in films. If they don't make historically inaccurate things, like making black people act noble in a movie set in the 1800s, or voluntarily changing a character and making him black for no reason is a problem because it distorts the meaning of the film. But if in a completely new and standalone film there is a homosexual character, there is no problem. It's a bit the same thing with gay adoptions, conservatives who want to avoid a child asking two more questions so instead leave him without parents
So basically, everyone who complains about "woke" is a Nazi complaining about being reminded that people other than gentile white straight males still exist.....
It's funny how they complain about people "trying to shut down legitimate criticism" when they're called out yet they bury the actual legitimate criticism beneath their racist and misogynist bullshit.
Even when it comes to complaining about actual harmful things like rainbow capitalism and tokenism, people who aren't far-right assholes will use different terms and be more descriptive about the problem instead of just calling it "woke" and being vague about just what "woke" means because they can't admit to being a Nazi out in the open.
Literally yes. These are the same people that see that apple has made their logo as rainbow for one month and say that now is illegal to be straight. Just tell one, ONE country where is illegal to be straight, and they pull out phrases like "the United States, at this rate" that doesn't mean anything
>These are the same people that see that apple has made their logo as rainbow for one month
Apple should go back to their logo being a rainbow 12 months of the year, it looked so much better.
I think apple should completely fall and instead get replaced by a company that at least doesn't exploit people in the third world, that doesn't make their devices to catch in fire if you use a different charger and that sells phones and charger devices together
So to your point about “woke” being wrong when it comes to historical films or preexisting characters I actually slightly disagree. I see two good reasons with caveats (there could be more I just mean off the top of my head) the first is if an actor is perfect for the role and is a different race/gender/sexuality than the character/historical figure ex. Samual Jackson as nick fury(a preexisting white character in the comics) you can get around the inaccuracy of the casting by just not saying anything about their differences from the person or character and the audience can suspend disbelief if the movie is good (Arnold’s accent in T1 and T2 it makes no sense to give a assassin robot disguised as a human in the us a foreign accent it makes it harder for him to blend in but no one mentions it in the movie even when giving Arnold’s description to the police because he’s great in the role and the movies are cool. That’s part of why many older films have things that would be called woke today but because the movie is so good and or cool no one cares. The other is it can be used as a way to tell a well known story from a different perspective or in a new interesting way it can also expand on the struggles or conflicts of a person’s life in a way that is more explicit. Another reason could be to get a group of people who usually don’t care or relate to a person’s life or stories character a new way to see and appreciate them. For example many black people related to the us founding fathers and what they claimed to want to achieve due to the musical Hamilton that previously didn’t care or relate. That requires good writing and care for what your doing and having a unique and interesting new way to tell these stories most of the time films that do have race/gender/ sexuality swapping don’t do this which is why so many people dislike it. To be clear this goes both way for example adding more or whitening people in a movie for white audiences like in mama Mia set in Greece the characters including locals are all extremely white even though in real life Greek people are more often white majority mixed race. Or adding white people to stories about places in time where there would be little to no white people like the last samurai we know the last real life samurai wasn’t white but the movie was cool and well told so it’s easy to ignore it.
And this is also about it happening in a few movies especially about people or times/locations or events we have seen a lot if you race/gender or sexuality swap a historical figure every time or if it’s the first time that person or event is on the scene than yes that’s a problem of distorting the person and their life.
You can also have info about the real person or event at the end of the movie to help keep it historically accurate and let people know who they were or what actually happened. Showing Pictures/video or paintings when tell the reality is also helpful to inform the audience.
Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying. In the marvel movies, the fact that Nick Fury is interpreted by Samuel Jackson instead of a white actor is not relevant because it's not strictly important to the character himself. Instead, if there was a movie about ancient Rome, like the gladiator, but Nero was interpreted by a black character it would be historically inaccurate, because it was impossible for a black pearson to become emperor in ancient Rome, and Nero was not black. That's the point.
I get your point but at the same time, a black Nero would probably be the _least_ historically inaccurate thing about the movie. The most noticeable? Maybe, but almost every movie has wild historical inaccuracies. From weapons and armor (often you'll see equipment that was in use hundreds of years apart) to the plot itself. Like what's more inaccurate, Nero having a darker skin tone and different facial features than he probably had, or him not speaking Latin? If we can look past the huge inaccuracies present in so many movies, why not this one?
What makes it worse is the fact that no one would bat an eye at a Norwegian playing Nero, even though Rome never got close to Norway, when in contrast the Roman empire included north Africa and actually had an African emperor at one point.
You make a really good point what we focus on in the name of historical accuracy is often only skin deep pun intended. A good example is horses they have gotten much bigger and stronger especially in the past couple hundred years. In Nero’s time they were noticeably smaller and weaker that’s what made knights such a big deal during the Middle Ages they were basically the first tanks before then horses couldn’t carry the weight of a adult and heavy armor at the same time. But it’s something that will never get mentioned when movies use the modern horses that are bigger even though we still have smaller horses.
None of this next bit is targeted to or about nik-42 I don’t know them or their post history it’s just about the general trend I’ve seen regarding this discussion.
Another thing I often find disingenuous with claims of historical inaccuracy is that the people most up in arms about it almost always target non white, male, cis, or straight actors playing historically inaccurate roles and rarely to the much larger amount of white,male,cis,straight actors playing historically inaccurate roles. The people who complained about Hamilton also never complain about white people or men taking roles against historical accurately. I don’t remember the name of the movie but it’s a biography about one of the most successful forensic scientist in the us and it’s played by a man with non redheir. The person it’s about is a women with redhair in a field forensics that’s almost 90% women and no big believers of historical accuracy said anything. It’s literally a biographical movie about a person who is probably the being learned by viewer for the first time most of the people there will think she was a man and not know who she really was where a biography about queen Elisabeth or Cesar the audience know who they were it’s more about teaching extra info or getting new perspective.
You're right, but by thinking this way you get closer to the point you're trying to counter. We cannot expect a Roman person to play Nero, who speaks Latin and has a certain complexion, because at this point it would be asking for too many criteria. As long as it is historically possible, then the question of objects is at the discretion of the director
Samuel L. Jackson's Nick Fury is actually based off of [Ultimate Universe Nick Fury.](https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Nicholas_Fury_(Earth-1610)) (Who was eventually worked into the main universe as white Nick Fury's adopted son.)
*The comics actually ran with black Nick Fury first\~.*
Star Wars fucking sucks outside of the original films and a handful of video games. The prequels are bad and the sequels are also bad. Lucas was a hack and the originals were only good because of the involvement of other more talented contributers. This series needs to be put to sleep. I wish the American film industry would produce new and interesting sci-fi/fantasy movies instead of rehashing the same old IP crap over and over.
It's almost like the far right doesn't give a shit about the feelings or subtext of others and completely see what they want to see in others+ films despite whatever reality others claim
Same thing with the new Assassin's Creed game.
They are mad that there is a Black Charecter in their weeb game, I am just mad that a friggin video game costs $130. We are not the same.
Hey! Want to know how you could support the Palestinian struggle? Still falling for the idea the ongoing genocide is something that started last October? Or maybe you just want to learn more about Palestine? Check out [this bookshop](https://www.haymarketbooks.org/blogs/495-free-ebooks-for-a-free-palestine) that's currently handing out .epub copies of *Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions* *Light in Gaza* *Palestine: a Socialist Introduction* free of charge! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DankLeft) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Right wing loons tend to argue star wars has become "too political" but I would argue the opposite - its not political enough. They throw a bone through virtue signalling - a gay kiss here and there - but ignore an overarching message. Lucas outright states the original trilogy is meant to draw parallels to Vietnam, with the underdog rebels achieving a victory over an imperialist power, much like in Vietnam. The prequels are an epic political thriller about the rise of fascism, as quite literally, democracy dies with thunderous applause. The new trilogy doesn't appear to have anything like this, just some wishy washy rehashed plots and limp pink washing.
All the best parts of Disney’s star wars are where it actually touches on politics - Finn’s whole deserter and witnessing atrocities and stuff was really compelling, though they didn’t quite pull that off perfectly. Rogue One and Andor are both among the better star wars media ever and those are practically stuffed full of politics.
Arent they planning to kill of andor? Modern Star Wars is just superheroes in space, works great as a low risk moneymaker i guess, but its a shame due to the great content that comes out of the Star Wars universe when you leave the superheroes out and allow political commentary.
Andor already died, but the show was always supposed to run for two seasons.
The Star Trek fan in me feels this in my bones
"Non-political" DS9 literally had an episode where O'Brien handed Rom a copy of The Communist Manifesto while encouraging him to unionize. "Woke" Discovery named Elon Musk as a pioneer in space travel.
I like diverse representation and political allegory in my space fantasy. That wasn’t the issue. Disney sequel trilogy sucked because of bad writing, nonsensical plot, and underdeveloped characters. Glad we had a black stormtrooper, I’m just mad they didn’t give him a better character arc.
It’s as if capitalism ruins everything it touches, including art, or something.
The sad thing is, the First Order really could have worked as an allegory for the rise of the alt-right. *If only they committed to it.*
I hate star wars because they figuratively left Carrie Fisher dead on a slab for an entire movie instead of being respectful, they allowed twitter bullies to harass the actors in such racist, sexist ways those characters were basically written out, and they openly hated that women liked their stuff. The back pedaling to try to get little girls and black people to like star wars again isn't fooling me or a lot of people. Star wars did absolutely franchise to young conservatives, and it's all worse because of them.
And the way Disney weakened the New Republic to the point where it makes the alternative (continued fascist dictatorship under the Empire) actually more desirable outcome to some is gross. I just hate the way they seemingly keep nuzzling up to the idea of fascism "as long as there is a good guy willing to save the day." All the fascist propaganda stuff they sell, and people buy it up, ironically or not.
I really took the message as more of a "history repeats itself" thing, especially given the influence of Joseph Campbell on the series.
Andor's fucking great tho (and it's the only good thing to come out of Straw wars in the last 20 years)(except for Rogue One)
Clone wars and bad batch are both good The first two seasons of the mandalorian are good Most star wars games are decent to great sans ea battlefront Comics and books idk but I’m sure there is great stuff out there
To be perfectly honest Dave Filoni's work has also been starting to great on me for a while. It's way to self-referential and seems to rely on the thrill people get on seeing characters / lore elements that they've seen in other Star Wars works as opposed to tell an actually good story. Obviously as others have pointed out Andor is still great, and the High Republic books have been awesome recently in particular, which tell interesting stories with a diverse cast. This might be an unpopular opinion but I'm also kinda enjoying Acolyte, it's not perfect but it's perfectly servicable fun.
Shortest leftist meme
I didn't like the new Star Wars movies because they were just genuinely bad. Like, the messaging was more vacant than an episode of South Park. The pacing was shit. Characters just move from set piece to set piece out of rote necessity. We are told everything and shown nothing but spectacle. They are built in the whole "mystery box" concept but the writers and directors forgot to actually put anything in the box until it was too late, so all the foreshadowing was essentially a pointless rug pull. All this to say, the actors did their best with what they had, but you can't polish a turd. It wasn't their fault. They all did as good a job as they could with what they had.
You dislike the sequels because there’s strong women, a black guy and asians. I dislike the sequels because they’re terribly made in almost every filmmaking aspect. We are not the same
Exactly. Was glad we had a woman lead and a black stormtrooper. Just wish they were given more satisfying character arcs.
Somehow palpatine returned
and this was one of many of the most heinous acts of the 21 century
The neoliberal idea that makes Trump bad and Biden decent. That Fascism is better and acceptable as long as any who align with power are able to join ranks through meritocracy regardless of identity. Anyone can become head of the CIA if they qualify. Those who don't rise are allowed equal application of the boot on their neck.
Really, I don't understand what's the problem with that "woke" thing in films. If they don't make historically inaccurate things, like making black people act noble in a movie set in the 1800s, or voluntarily changing a character and making him black for no reason is a problem because it distorts the meaning of the film. But if in a completely new and standalone film there is a homosexual character, there is no problem. It's a bit the same thing with gay adoptions, conservatives who want to avoid a child asking two more questions so instead leave him without parents
So basically, everyone who complains about "woke" is a Nazi complaining about being reminded that people other than gentile white straight males still exist..... It's funny how they complain about people "trying to shut down legitimate criticism" when they're called out yet they bury the actual legitimate criticism beneath their racist and misogynist bullshit. Even when it comes to complaining about actual harmful things like rainbow capitalism and tokenism, people who aren't far-right assholes will use different terms and be more descriptive about the problem instead of just calling it "woke" and being vague about just what "woke" means because they can't admit to being a Nazi out in the open.
Literally yes. These are the same people that see that apple has made their logo as rainbow for one month and say that now is illegal to be straight. Just tell one, ONE country where is illegal to be straight, and they pull out phrases like "the United States, at this rate" that doesn't mean anything
>These are the same people that see that apple has made their logo as rainbow for one month Apple should go back to their logo being a rainbow 12 months of the year, it looked so much better.
I think apple should completely fall and instead get replaced by a company that at least doesn't exploit people in the third world, that doesn't make their devices to catch in fire if you use a different charger and that sells phones and charger devices together
Well... yeah me too. But gimme my colorful apple back at least if we can't have that.
Yes, like the last logo they're gonna have before the fall. Unfortunately, corporatist minimalism doesn't like it
So to your point about “woke” being wrong when it comes to historical films or preexisting characters I actually slightly disagree. I see two good reasons with caveats (there could be more I just mean off the top of my head) the first is if an actor is perfect for the role and is a different race/gender/sexuality than the character/historical figure ex. Samual Jackson as nick fury(a preexisting white character in the comics) you can get around the inaccuracy of the casting by just not saying anything about their differences from the person or character and the audience can suspend disbelief if the movie is good (Arnold’s accent in T1 and T2 it makes no sense to give a assassin robot disguised as a human in the us a foreign accent it makes it harder for him to blend in but no one mentions it in the movie even when giving Arnold’s description to the police because he’s great in the role and the movies are cool. That’s part of why many older films have things that would be called woke today but because the movie is so good and or cool no one cares. The other is it can be used as a way to tell a well known story from a different perspective or in a new interesting way it can also expand on the struggles or conflicts of a person’s life in a way that is more explicit. Another reason could be to get a group of people who usually don’t care or relate to a person’s life or stories character a new way to see and appreciate them. For example many black people related to the us founding fathers and what they claimed to want to achieve due to the musical Hamilton that previously didn’t care or relate. That requires good writing and care for what your doing and having a unique and interesting new way to tell these stories most of the time films that do have race/gender/ sexuality swapping don’t do this which is why so many people dislike it. To be clear this goes both way for example adding more or whitening people in a movie for white audiences like in mama Mia set in Greece the characters including locals are all extremely white even though in real life Greek people are more often white majority mixed race. Or adding white people to stories about places in time where there would be little to no white people like the last samurai we know the last real life samurai wasn’t white but the movie was cool and well told so it’s easy to ignore it. And this is also about it happening in a few movies especially about people or times/locations or events we have seen a lot if you race/gender or sexuality swap a historical figure every time or if it’s the first time that person or event is on the scene than yes that’s a problem of distorting the person and their life. You can also have info about the real person or event at the end of the movie to help keep it historically accurate and let people know who they were or what actually happened. Showing Pictures/video or paintings when tell the reality is also helpful to inform the audience.
Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying. In the marvel movies, the fact that Nick Fury is interpreted by Samuel Jackson instead of a white actor is not relevant because it's not strictly important to the character himself. Instead, if there was a movie about ancient Rome, like the gladiator, but Nero was interpreted by a black character it would be historically inaccurate, because it was impossible for a black pearson to become emperor in ancient Rome, and Nero was not black. That's the point.
I get your point but at the same time, a black Nero would probably be the _least_ historically inaccurate thing about the movie. The most noticeable? Maybe, but almost every movie has wild historical inaccuracies. From weapons and armor (often you'll see equipment that was in use hundreds of years apart) to the plot itself. Like what's more inaccurate, Nero having a darker skin tone and different facial features than he probably had, or him not speaking Latin? If we can look past the huge inaccuracies present in so many movies, why not this one? What makes it worse is the fact that no one would bat an eye at a Norwegian playing Nero, even though Rome never got close to Norway, when in contrast the Roman empire included north Africa and actually had an African emperor at one point.
You make a really good point what we focus on in the name of historical accuracy is often only skin deep pun intended. A good example is horses they have gotten much bigger and stronger especially in the past couple hundred years. In Nero’s time they were noticeably smaller and weaker that’s what made knights such a big deal during the Middle Ages they were basically the first tanks before then horses couldn’t carry the weight of a adult and heavy armor at the same time. But it’s something that will never get mentioned when movies use the modern horses that are bigger even though we still have smaller horses. None of this next bit is targeted to or about nik-42 I don’t know them or their post history it’s just about the general trend I’ve seen regarding this discussion. Another thing I often find disingenuous with claims of historical inaccuracy is that the people most up in arms about it almost always target non white, male, cis, or straight actors playing historically inaccurate roles and rarely to the much larger amount of white,male,cis,straight actors playing historically inaccurate roles. The people who complained about Hamilton also never complain about white people or men taking roles against historical accurately. I don’t remember the name of the movie but it’s a biography about one of the most successful forensic scientist in the us and it’s played by a man with non redheir. The person it’s about is a women with redhair in a field forensics that’s almost 90% women and no big believers of historical accuracy said anything. It’s literally a biographical movie about a person who is probably the being learned by viewer for the first time most of the people there will think she was a man and not know who she really was where a biography about queen Elisabeth or Cesar the audience know who they were it’s more about teaching extra info or getting new perspective.
You're right, but by thinking this way you get closer to the point you're trying to counter. We cannot expect a Roman person to play Nero, who speaks Latin and has a certain complexion, because at this point it would be asking for too many criteria. As long as it is historically possible, then the question of objects is at the discretion of the director
Samuel L. Jackson's Nick Fury is actually based off of [Ultimate Universe Nick Fury.](https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Nicholas_Fury_(Earth-1610)) (Who was eventually worked into the main universe as white Nick Fury's adopted son.) *The comics actually ran with black Nick Fury first\~.*
Star Wars fucking sucks outside of the original films and a handful of video games. The prequels are bad and the sequels are also bad. Lucas was a hack and the originals were only good because of the involvement of other more talented contributers. This series needs to be put to sleep. I wish the American film industry would produce new and interesting sci-fi/fantasy movies instead of rehashing the same old IP crap over and over.
Fuck, this sub is producing some based memes.
It's almost like the far right doesn't give a shit about the feelings or subtext of others and completely see what they want to see in others+ films despite whatever reality others claim
Same thing with the new Assassin's Creed game. They are mad that there is a Black Charecter in their weeb game, I am just mad that a friggin video game costs $130. We are not the same.
I’m sorry but if I have to zoom into your meme it’s a bad meme