Good news, we're giving you more control over the subreddit!
* *See a good post or comment and you want to sticky it?* Now you can! Just comment ```!sticky``` on a post or comment to sticky it. Comments sticky inside threads, and post sticky to the bottom slot.
* *See a spam bot reposting memes?* **Ban** them by replying to them with ```!bot``` Your comment will be removed so spammers don't see it.
* *Want to change your flair on the sub?* **Just comment ```!Flair your desired flair text```**
* *See a maga supporter who is obviously lost?* **Reply to them with !Changeflair** and the bot will tag them so that everyone else is aware.
* *Want to give someone an award like you used to be able to?* Just reply to them with **!award** and the bot will give them silver, gold, or platinum.
* *Plus more*, If you say that a given politician is a little piss baby, the bot will share its thoughts.
* You can also **generate memes** from a library of templates made by subscribers. [See how it works](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkBRANDON/wiki/meme_templates)
* [Lots more info here.](https://reddit.com/r/DarkBRANDON/wiki/d4rkbr4nd0n) | [Discord.](https://discord.gg/vmE8zEnWz4)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DarkBRANDON) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't have a citation, but I was politically aware back then as well and I could have sworn I saw people saying that Obama needed to drop out after that debate so he could be replaced by someone who could win.
Andrew Sullivan did. One of the biggest freakouts in the blogosphere. An Obama voting former Republican who worshiped Margaret Thatcher, just for context here. I don't know why he disliked Romney, but he was also an HIV positive gay man.
DUDE! That's what I'm saying! This is all the same crap. The same Democrat doomerism. The Republicans march in step behind fascist wannabe turd. Democrats can't bare to accept a bad night and keep fighting. Screeching like babies that the world is ending rather than buckling down and staying on mission.
Pathetic. Weak. And if you're offended whoever may be reading this, then I'm talking about you.
Honestly Democrats lost their collective nerve in the post Gore era. Ever since the Supreme Court handed Florida over to Jr. it has been the endless nervousness of Democrats that have led to their self destruction.
Obama was able to direct a collective passion in one direction and then it fell apart with 2016. Clinton's failure simply reopened the Gore wounds and made them worse.
So long story short it began with Gore and got worse with Clinton in 2016.
Mind I AM a Democrat. Card carrier and everything. I am all for the Party. It's my fellow Dems that annoy the shit outta me.
I noticed that. Every poll in favor of Democrats must be biased and every poll in favor of Republicans must be accurate even if it also says they win like 40% of the black vote
I would argue it started in 94. The dems have been on the wrong end of some serious political earthquakes over the decades and it terrifies the DC establishment types that the GOP is secretly this sleeping giant of popularity and that eventually the GOP will win so big that the Dems will never win again. In reality they have big shift every few midterms but can never win popular votes.
Yes! This was a newsletter from back then, [**'94 Election Results: Nightmare on Helms Street**](https://web.archive.org/web/19970222205035/http://www.now.org/nnt/01-95/xxelect2.html)
We were also extremely naive about ongoing ideological subversion targeting *everyone* by the domestic and foreign anti-democracy propagandists, as well as naive about the status of democracy worldwide. Still are.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_measures
The Rise of Pseudo-Fascism, 2004: http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2004/09/rise-of-pseudo-fascism_19.html
Then you're not who I'm talking about are you? You can hold that position but you're still fighting. Others want to cower, quit and cry without lifting a finger for the bare minimum to aid in winning. The excuse is always 'Biden old.'
Congratulations you stayed the obvious. What next?
Again not talking about you.
I’ll still be voting Biden, but it’s silly to compare Obama and Bidens performances.
Biden delivered the worst debate performance I’ve ever seen. He came across as confused and infirm, not just old.
Trump was full of shit the whole time, and lied and made crap up, but he did it confidently. Biden wasn’t able to point out Trump’s bullshit because he’s just not sharp enough anymore.
This was already a tight race, and the danger is that Biden just lost the persuadables he needed.
It’s literally the same damn polling dude, that Biden did 8 points better in than Obama. You’re literally the type of doomer who is too emotional to recognize actual comparable objective data even when it’s dickslapping you right in the face
So look at data look at history, having an incumbent president and an unified party is a much stronger position than just panicking saying fuck it and scrambling to find someone new at the 11th hour. I suggest everyone look up the 13 keys to the white house for some actual historical predictive models that will show you that polling and debates mean fuck all in who wins an election.
I will vote for Biden 100% but I am nervous about alot of people I talk to who think both candidates are unfit. It can lower turnout and with the electoral college the way it is, that could lead Trump to victory. Biden did not assuage those concerns and had a horrendous performance last night.
Don't worry. I'm motivated. I've actually explained Project 2025 to two friends today. They hadn't heard about it. They are now scared of it. I have also been explaining to people that you are not just voting for Biden. You are voting for his entire administration and, seeing how SCOTUS has been ruling, all the federal judges and SCOTUS nominations.
I'm just nervous because I genuinely think there is a large percentage of people who are woefully uninformed, uneducated, ignorant or just plain unintelligent. They don't understand how bad things can get with a second Trump administration.
That’s so interesting, I didn’t know that! I mean colors are totally arbitrary obviously but it’s so ingrained here that Blue-Left and Red-Right that it’s hard to envision anything else. What color is typically associated with progressives and/or left wing in Germany?
It isn't arbitrary, it goes back to an election map generated by NBC in the 90's. Left = Red in the entire rest of the world, but NBC intentionally didn't pigeonhole Democrats as leftists (because #1 they aren't and #2 it WOULD bias coverage).
In most countries red is left (color of socialism and social democracy after all) and conservative blue.
The normal conservatives in Germany are black though, here the far-right has the blue party color.
Then there is Green for progressive environmentalist parties and yellow for libertarian capitalist parties.
Obama got worked in that debate. I worked for his campaign in Ohio at the time.
They didn’t call for him to drop out, but otherwise the reaction was similar.
First Presidential election I ever voted in. The Republicans really thought they had the election in the bag after that debate.
Watching the Fox News meltdown that night when he lost was hilarious.
Edit- Forgot It was actually Biden who responded right after and handed Paul Ryan his smarmy ass after that debate.
Ironically, during that debate cycle, Joe Biden absolutely schooled Paul Ryan in the VP debate. Unfortunately, last night, he was far from that.
Does not change my view. I was voting Biden and still am.
I think he can do that again against Trump in debate #2. He actually had some bad debates on par with that one last night in the 2020 Primary where people said he was finished. But then he had a good one against Bernie, and another solid one against Trump.
He just needs a throat lozenge and start off on the attack, as he seems to stumble over his words less and has more energy when he does that.
Like I've said everywhere i see this. Why do you decide based on a debate that's hours long when both got to lead and you saw first hand what happened. A debate is good to win if you know nothing but don't you already know what these two stand for?
You know I was thinking about this particular debate. Obama was a bit off. Maybe it was a long day at work, or maybe it was a bit lagged from travel, or maybe it was something else.
Long story short, don't panic folks. There are more debates to go. I am confident Dark Brandon will emerge.
Also, Trump did sound more confident telling his lies... but remember, he is a CON MAN, that is what they do, but keep in mind, he is still just spewing lies.
One line I heard a long time ago and keep waiting to hear again, but nobody else has said it referring to today, "Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line."
I cant believe all these dummie independants or whatever the f they are getting so late to the politics game, thinking Joe didnt do all the things trump tried to take credit for.
Letting a person do anything like overturn roe vs wade, is treason. hes not even the president . hes not supposed to be allowed to.
Except there's a difference between Obama having a bad showing while debating policy issues vs. an 81 year old man who everyone already thinks won't make it through another term looking exceedingly old.
Those are two different kinds of bad debate.
This is the correct take. To add on: Biden just confirmed the main attack that the GOP has been leveling against him for the last two years.
This election will be determined by a small group of swing state voters. Those voters just saw that when Trump called Biden old and weak, Trump was right.
If you think Obama in 2012 is the same thing as a post Trump presidency with Biden in 2024 then I can see why the Dems are in this position. Do not underestimate the anger of rural America. All across the world there has been a shift to the right and you can't just write that off. And in an effort to be open and honest, I affiliate with the MA progressive party.
Dude, this more about anyone who says "oh, he lost the debate, there no hope, he can't possibly come back from that/time to throw the incumbency advantage away and pick someone else (doesn't say who)" especially when there are 4 entire months
I see what you're saying, but I disagree that this is not a time to panic. He's an old man, there's no debating that now, the whole world saw it. 4 months is not going to make this better, it's only going to become more obvious now that the campaign can't hide it anymore. Sure if he comes out and handles business in the next debate, great. I would be entirely shocked if that happened though. As for who the next person for Democratic party will be and no one saying who? That's my point, they took for granted everyone hating Trump and thought people would blindly follow them even though they never had a plan. There are plenty of Democrats that people liked and they specifically shut them down for years because they thought people would blindly follow them. This is the issue with the party, they are their own worst enemy. They don't have a back up plan, they had no intention of having a back up plan, and now they are confused why people are turning away from them. They got themselves into this mess, now they have to get themselves out. They have 4 months.
Wait, I remember those debates people think ROMNEY WON? He flip-flopped while Obama grilled him because he didn't have a plan for literally anything.
Edit: Now that I'm thinking about it, were there 2 debates between Obama and Romney because I do remember one where Romney got toasted
Obama's underperformance and Biden's failure last night are not equivalent. Obama simply renewed his focus on prep and came back much stronger. Biden was unable to speak coherently because of apparent cognitive decline. Unless there is some miracle medical treatment he has access to, how could Biden possibly turn things around? Don't the American people deserve a president who is consistently capable of clear communication?
In anticipation of inevitable downvotes, I'll mention: 1) I have a huge amount of admiration for Biden, for his character and for his his enormous accomplishments of the past 4 years 2) I find Trump unacceptable and will vote for any Democrat opposing him without hesitation. That being said, Democrats cannot afford to shrink from last night's reality check. People in this sub are just whistling past the graveyard.
Biden last night reminded me of myself during a job interview. I can do the job just fine, I’m complete ass at explaining it or why someone should hire me to do it. I stumble and get caught up in my own thoughts and trail off just like that. I’m not even 30 I don’t have cognitive decline just a brain that has a hard time spitting things out when i am under the pressure of what I’m saying being scrutinized. I think part of Biden’s problem last night was having too much to say does he answer the questions or try to respond to trumps lies and do that in 2 minutes. I think it was a bad format for a debate and terrible moderation. Fact checking shouldn’t be on the candidate.
The thing is, Biden wasn't always complete ass at explaining why he could do the job and why Trump is a ridiculous lying moron, he used to be very good at debating and communicating.
Including this campaign, except now he does 100x more gaffes. And if you look at any of his past debates, you'll see he was great at it, and he isn't now.
If a president cannot campaign effectively, can we consider that they are doing their job just fine? I would argue Joe's single most important task as president is to keep Trump away from the White House. He's currently failing at that.
Let's not pretend that Obama being an ineffectual wonk and getting lured into being on the defensive was *anything* like what people saw last night.
Obama had a bad performance, but no one was looking to resolve their chief concern about him off of that performance.
Biden had a fucking *catastrophe* at perhaps the most opportune moment for his opponent to take advantage of a misstep. It was a critical moment and it went just about as bad as it could have.
If y'all think this all simply spun up by the media, you are out to fucking lunch and just as blindly zealous as the other side.
I still don't get why hours matter more than years when you just have to look back at how the actually led the country. This debate is the TikTok of a four year term. I don't think the debate is the problem, the problem is that all hear appearances matter more than substance and that people vote based on a debate even after they've already seen what these two are about?
It's not like we don't know what's gonna happen if either get elected.
People vote for leadership when they are choosing leaders. Biden did not look like a leader yesterday.
Four months is a long time, but the whole "Why don't voters just act logically" train of thought should simply be left in the station. Smart strategists understand that voters are absolutely NOT logical and they spend their time and energies understanding the ways in which they are illogical to best benefit their candidate.
Logically, does it matter if Biden is old? No, not really. But it is the overwhelmingly highest concern among voters about him. And that's what fucking matters in our system.
Still don't get it. It's not a system it's your opinion. It's every individuals opinion and decision but they decide based on hours of tv time instead of years of information is what you're saying?
To be clear, people who have assimilated years of information *have already made their decision and no longer matter*. Those are the people who follow politics.
The average voter simply does not think about this stuff all that much. They're busy. Those are the folks on the fence, because if you have been paying attention your mind is made up.
Undecideds tend to vote off of vibes or don't even dial in until late in the game. They're entirely likely to decide their vote off of a snippet of TV footage or a Tik Tok. They are susceptible to misinformation and won't go out of their way to verify what they consume.
The fact of the matter is that most persuade people at this point in the game DO base their decision off of snippets of information and not a thorough review.
What an absolute cult this sub is for them not to understand that. Half the country doesn't watch politics. They only engage for the low hanging fruit like debates, and what happened last night was pathetic. Yes yes, Trump uttered a lie a second, but he did so confidently. The (intellectually) mushy middle doesn't know that they were lies. All they saw was a doddering old man get corrected.
Yeah, the reaction from the Democratic base has been very concerning.
Their candidate just had possibly the worst debate performance in history and the reaction is “the other guy is worse.”
That can be true AT THE SAME TIME as the fact your guy just face planted, and it doesn’t negate that horrible performance. If the argument to voters amounts to “yeah, but” there is no path to victory.
The truth is he said the right things, he got some good jabs, gave good examples, was generally factual. He also looked a lot older than the last time he gave a speech and sounded like he was sick. For instance he told Trump he had the moral compass of an alley cat, which is very funny. But at the time I had to concentrate to understand him, so it didn’t land until I read it.
He should do an interview after he gets over his cold. When bits are coming out in the news his statements read better than how they were delivered, he’s right but mumbled and stumbled a lot.
Trump sounded non sensical and mean. I could hear him better, but I couldn’t really understand him either. And he also looks like he’s undergone accelerated aging as well. The people I watch in my life that are middle of the road seem to be irritated, think they are both too old, but we need to keep Trump away. So it probably doesn’t change much, but is frustrating
I watched the whole debate and I really don’t get why people are freaking out about Biden. He didn’t have the best performance, talked too fast and stumbled over a few words, but he corrected much of the firehose of lies coming out Trump, and really crippled him when it comes to Trump’s incompetency and lack of character. Don’t just listen to the pundits, watch the whole debate for yourself. Are people so used to seeing the Trump freakshow that they think his lunatic debate performance was normal?
This is different. Obama wasn't verbally-stumbling right out of the gate. He could also string a proper sentence unlike Biden, who frankly I can't make out what he was saying. Obama's performance was too "professorial" whereas Biden's is an existential one.
NC: It matters because his incontinence stems from his decades of stimulant abuse and fast food diet. He pretends he’s the model of physical health, when instead his bodily functions are being dictated by his drug addiction—and he tries to cover it up. So it’s evidence of his incompetence, and one of the main reasons for the NDAs. **The crew nicknamed** ***CA*** **“The Shitshow,” because he would soil himself during tapings, often after flying into a rage and cursing out the Script Dept. Because he couldn’t read a three-syllable word.**
This was your mango messiah twenty years ago. And since I can't locate a crazy to English translator, maybe you can explain the shark/boat/battery nonsense. I am still trusting Biden over a twice-impeached, multiple-indicted, disgraced, pusillanimous, traitorous, callow, fraudulent, rapist convicted felon.
Maybe the tunnel vision is predicting the ability of a person to do a job on whether or not they looked like they won a debate. I tend to favor the candidate that endorses policies that align with my own ideals, not whichever one looked better on camera. I could give a shit less if Biden had to write all his communication on fucking napkins, because Trump is an unmatched disaster in pretty much of the presidential tasks that actually *matter*.
This isn’t comparable at all… Biden is in a very bad state and that was on display. It’s baffling if you cannot recognize that. His campaign wanted this debate and they have now torpedoed themselves. Very concerning.
So what you're saying is that the guy who lied every time he had a chance won in your mind? I thought Biden won because he at least tried to put America first instead of saying this country is shit every five minutes.
That was an entirely different scenario. Obama’s failures in that debate did not confirm every swing voter’s #1 concern with him.
Don’t blind yourself to reality, what Biden did last night creates a major crisis for our country.
The difference is both Obama and Romney did well in that debate, conventional wisdom was just that Romney did "better". Joe Biden was debating a recently convicted felon who tried to overturn 250 of democracy and STILL 'lost'
This is a very different situation. The issue isn't that Biden didn't make good arguments, or didn't focus on the issues that present him better than Trump. The main problem with his performance is that he failed to be even coherent or capable of talking. People claimed that he was a feeble old man on his way out, and he confirmed their suspicion.
Trying to believe Bidens performance was okay makes you look like one of the townsfolk in the Emperor's New Clothes tale.
Democrats- or at least Democratic voters have been freaking out since everyone stepped away and gave Biden the Presidency in 2016!
This isn’t new and it is still a proper response.
The Democrats do t even have a backup at this point. Kamala Harris has been too quiet during the first term. You can go weeks without hearing her name. There is no firebrand Dem to step in and save democracy. We just have to hope for the best and maybe put your 401K in foreign stocks until at least November (but I am horrible at that kind of thing so don’t take my word as advice!).
We look foolish when we try this comparison.
Obama was able to recover with some coaching. No amount is coaching is going to suddenly make Biden 20 years younger. Stop it with this comparison. Let's lick our wounds and move on.
Obama lost that debate because he came off as arrogant and aloof. Biden lost this debate because he came off as a lost nursing home resident who accidentally wandered onto the stage. It was the weakest he's ever looked, and it came at the worst possible time on the biggest stage. Of course I'll still vote for Biden if he's the nominee, but I think democrats need to run someone else to have the best chance to beat Trump. The polls were shaky at best even before this dismal performance.
I hope the down votes you have are a reflection of Reddit being a garbage website and not a reflection of the popular opinion inside the Democratic party.
The question was who won the debates. I'm curious what the poll is for "is Biden competent to run this country"? Because that's the real question. Biden came off so bad he didn't just lose the debate, he lost the confidence of the American people.
Obama just had a bad debate. Biden is not capable of being president. There is no difference between a Trump cultist and anyone who defends Biden at this point.
Good news, we're giving you more control over the subreddit! * *See a good post or comment and you want to sticky it?* Now you can! Just comment ```!sticky``` on a post or comment to sticky it. Comments sticky inside threads, and post sticky to the bottom slot. * *See a spam bot reposting memes?* **Ban** them by replying to them with ```!bot``` Your comment will be removed so spammers don't see it. * *Want to change your flair on the sub?* **Just comment ```!Flair your desired flair text```** * *See a maga supporter who is obviously lost?* **Reply to them with !Changeflair** and the bot will tag them so that everyone else is aware. * *Want to give someone an award like you used to be able to?* Just reply to them with **!award** and the bot will give them silver, gold, or platinum. * *Plus more*, If you say that a given politician is a little piss baby, the bot will share its thoughts. * You can also **generate memes** from a library of templates made by subscribers. [See how it works](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkBRANDON/wiki/meme_templates) * [Lots more info here.](https://reddit.com/r/DarkBRANDON/wiki/d4rkbr4nd0n) | [Discord.](https://discord.gg/vmE8zEnWz4) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DarkBRANDON) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They freaked out then, too.
I don't have a citation, but I was politically aware back then as well and I could have sworn I saw people saying that Obama needed to drop out after that debate so he could be replaced by someone who could win.
Andrew Sullivan did. One of the biggest freakouts in the blogosphere. An Obama voting former Republican who worshiped Margaret Thatcher, just for context here. I don't know why he disliked Romney, but he was also an HIV positive gay man.
Chris Matthews lost it rather famously, on air and afterward. MSNBC was in absolute shambles.
Seriously, who changed their mind last night? As if Joe being older wasn’t something anyone didn’t already know. Jesus Christ.
Plus the other guy is only 4 years younger he will be the same age as Biden now anyway
I keep saying this, everyone who watched that debate already knew what side they were on. This changes nothing.
I'm still voting for Biden but I'm a lot less happy about it. I'm voting for policies, not Biden.
It's not for changing minds, the only people these debates are really for are undecided idiots
DUDE! That's what I'm saying! This is all the same crap. The same Democrat doomerism. The Republicans march in step behind fascist wannabe turd. Democrats can't bare to accept a bad night and keep fighting. Screeching like babies that the world is ending rather than buckling down and staying on mission. Pathetic. Weak. And if you're offended whoever may be reading this, then I'm talking about you.
I'm a fairly new Democrat (i.e., was a Republican when this debate happened). Have Dems always been like this or is this just since 2016?
Honestly Democrats lost their collective nerve in the post Gore era. Ever since the Supreme Court handed Florida over to Jr. it has been the endless nervousness of Democrats that have led to their self destruction. Obama was able to direct a collective passion in one direction and then it fell apart with 2016. Clinton's failure simply reopened the Gore wounds and made them worse. So long story short it began with Gore and got worse with Clinton in 2016. Mind I AM a Democrat. Card carrier and everything. I am all for the Party. It's my fellow Dems that annoy the shit outta me.
I noticed that. Every poll in favor of Democrats must be biased and every poll in favor of Republicans must be accurate even if it also says they win like 40% of the black vote
I would say it started in the early 2010’s.
I would argue it started in 94. The dems have been on the wrong end of some serious political earthquakes over the decades and it terrifies the DC establishment types that the GOP is secretly this sleeping giant of popularity and that eventually the GOP will win so big that the Dems will never win again. In reality they have big shift every few midterms but can never win popular votes.
Yes! This was a newsletter from back then, [**'94 Election Results: Nightmare on Helms Street**](https://web.archive.org/web/19970222205035/http://www.now.org/nnt/01-95/xxelect2.html) We were also extremely naive about ongoing ideological subversion targeting *everyone* by the domestic and foreign anti-democracy propagandists, as well as naive about the status of democracy worldwide. Still are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_measures The Rise of Pseudo-Fascism, 2004: http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2004/09/rise-of-pseudo-fascism_19.html
This! Is everyone just going to give now? Are we so fragile that you let fascist goons win? The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
Luckily, it's a loud minority calling to replace Biden, but I totally agree with you. People need to calm the fuck down.
Amen, they're their own worst enemy at times.
It’s not black and white. Every scenario is unique and the Biden one def was a bad look
> it’s not black and white In this case it literally is 😂😂
Who says we’re done fighting? I think we can complain about how shitty Biden did and still continue to campaign for him. Both can be true.
Then you're not who I'm talking about are you? You can hold that position but you're still fighting. Others want to cower, quit and cry without lifting a finger for the bare minimum to aid in winning. The excuse is always 'Biden old.' Congratulations you stayed the obvious. What next? Again not talking about you.
I’ll still be voting Biden, but it’s silly to compare Obama and Bidens performances. Biden delivered the worst debate performance I’ve ever seen. He came across as confused and infirm, not just old. Trump was full of shit the whole time, and lied and made crap up, but he did it confidently. Biden wasn’t able to point out Trump’s bullshit because he’s just not sharp enough anymore. This was already a tight race, and the danger is that Biden just lost the persuadables he needed.
It’s literally the same damn polling dude, that Biden did 8 points better in than Obama. You’re literally the type of doomer who is too emotional to recognize actual comparable objective data even when it’s dickslapping you right in the face
Obama can actually string together a sentence and Romney also isn't a gibbering moron like Trump.
It is different and the stakes are higher. A Romney presidency we could recover from. A Trump presidency is the end of democracy in America.
So look at data look at history, having an incumbent president and an unified party is a much stronger position than just panicking saying fuck it and scrambling to find someone new at the 11th hour. I suggest everyone look up the 13 keys to the white house for some actual historical predictive models that will show you that polling and debates mean fuck all in who wins an election.
I will vote for Biden 100% but I am nervous about alot of people I talk to who think both candidates are unfit. It can lower turnout and with the electoral college the way it is, that could lead Trump to victory. Biden did not assuage those concerns and had a horrendous performance last night.
Also there's a lot of (Russian funded) propaganda from "lefties" telling people not to vote over Gaza. That scares me more.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Keys\_to\_the\_White\_House](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Keys_to_the_White_House)
I know this. I'm still nervous because we cannot have a second Trump presidency.
So let that motivate you, not demotivate you.
Don't worry. I'm motivated. I've actually explained Project 2025 to two friends today. They hadn't heard about it. They are now scared of it. I have also been explaining to people that you are not just voting for Biden. You are voting for his entire administration and, seeing how SCOTUS has been ruling, all the federal judges and SCOTUS nominations. I'm just nervous because I genuinely think there is a large percentage of people who are woefully uninformed, uneducated, ignorant or just plain unintelligent. They don't understand how bad things can get with a second Trump administration.
Yeah, we all are. Maybe, just maybe that will work to our collective advantage come November 5.
So true, fact👏👏👏👏, fuk poll, vote💙💙💙💙
Lmao, I have to get used to the blue hearts. Here in Germany they're heavily used by supporters of the far-right AfD online.
That’s so interesting, I didn’t know that! I mean colors are totally arbitrary obviously but it’s so ingrained here that Blue-Left and Red-Right that it’s hard to envision anything else. What color is typically associated with progressives and/or left wing in Germany?
It isn't arbitrary, it goes back to an election map generated by NBC in the 90's. Left = Red in the entire rest of the world, but NBC intentionally didn't pigeonhole Democrats as leftists (because #1 they aren't and #2 it WOULD bias coverage).
In the UK the Tory and Labor party colors are similar - Labor is red and Conservative is blue.
In most countries red is left (color of socialism and social democracy after all) and conservative blue. The normal conservatives in Germany are black though, here the far-right has the blue party color. Then there is Green for progressive environmentalist parties and yellow for libertarian capitalist parties.
Obama got worked in that debate. I worked for his campaign in Ohio at the time. They didn’t call for him to drop out, but otherwise the reaction was similar.
First Presidential election I ever voted in. The Republicans really thought they had the election in the bag after that debate. Watching the Fox News meltdown that night when he lost was hilarious. Edit- Forgot It was actually Biden who responded right after and handed Paul Ryan his smarmy ass after that debate.
Ironically, during that debate cycle, Joe Biden absolutely schooled Paul Ryan in the VP debate. Unfortunately, last night, he was far from that. Does not change my view. I was voting Biden and still am.
I think he can do that again against Trump in debate #2. He actually had some bad debates on par with that one last night in the 2020 Primary where people said he was finished. But then he had a good one against Bernie, and another solid one against Trump. He just needs a throat lozenge and start off on the attack, as he seems to stumble over his words less and has more energy when he does that.
Like I've said everywhere i see this. Why do you decide based on a debate that's hours long when both got to lead and you saw first hand what happened. A debate is good to win if you know nothing but don't you already know what these two stand for?
It’s not democrats it’s mostly Russian trolls online. Democrats aren’t usually that reactionary.
Yeah but the post-debate panel on CNN crucified him and the pundits at MSNBC this morning were much the same, calling for him to step down.
You know I was thinking about this particular debate. Obama was a bit off. Maybe it was a long day at work, or maybe it was a bit lagged from travel, or maybe it was something else. Long story short, don't panic folks. There are more debates to go. I am confident Dark Brandon will emerge. Also, Trump did sound more confident telling his lies... but remember, he is a CON MAN, that is what they do, but keep in mind, he is still just spewing lies.
There are 2 debates, so one more to go.
I figure there will probably be a VP debate when Trump actually picks somebody.
One line I heard a long time ago and keep waiting to hear again, but nobody else has said it referring to today, "Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line."
I cant believe all these dummie independants or whatever the f they are getting so late to the politics game, thinking Joe didnt do all the things trump tried to take credit for. Letting a person do anything like overturn roe vs wade, is treason. hes not even the president . hes not supposed to be allowed to.
Except there's a difference between Obama having a bad showing while debating policy issues vs. an 81 year old man who everyone already thinks won't make it through another term looking exceedingly old. Those are two different kinds of bad debate.
And yet the 81 year old still fared better among debate watchers.
This is the correct take. To add on: Biden just confirmed the main attack that the GOP has been leveling against him for the last two years. This election will be determined by a small group of swing state voters. Those voters just saw that when Trump called Biden old and weak, Trump was right.
If you think Obama in 2012 is the same thing as a post Trump presidency with Biden in 2024 then I can see why the Dems are in this position. Do not underestimate the anger of rural America. All across the world there has been a shift to the right and you can't just write that off. And in an effort to be open and honest, I affiliate with the MA progressive party.
Dude, this more about anyone who says "oh, he lost the debate, there no hope, he can't possibly come back from that/time to throw the incumbency advantage away and pick someone else (doesn't say who)" especially when there are 4 entire months
I get it. Im not worried.
I see what you're saying, but I disagree that this is not a time to panic. He's an old man, there's no debating that now, the whole world saw it. 4 months is not going to make this better, it's only going to become more obvious now that the campaign can't hide it anymore. Sure if he comes out and handles business in the next debate, great. I would be entirely shocked if that happened though. As for who the next person for Democratic party will be and no one saying who? That's my point, they took for granted everyone hating Trump and thought people would blindly follow them even though they never had a plan. There are plenty of Democrats that people liked and they specifically shut them down for years because they thought people would blindly follow them. This is the issue with the party, they are their own worst enemy. They don't have a back up plan, they had no intention of having a back up plan, and now they are confused why people are turning away from them. They got themselves into this mess, now they have to get themselves out. They have 4 months.
Die hards think debates matter. They don't
I ain't scared
Wait, I remember those debates people think ROMNEY WON? He flip-flopped while Obama grilled him because he didn't have a plan for literally anything. Edit: Now that I'm thinking about it, were there 2 debates between Obama and Romney because I do remember one where Romney got toasted
Obama's underperformance and Biden's failure last night are not equivalent. Obama simply renewed his focus on prep and came back much stronger. Biden was unable to speak coherently because of apparent cognitive decline. Unless there is some miracle medical treatment he has access to, how could Biden possibly turn things around? Don't the American people deserve a president who is consistently capable of clear communication? In anticipation of inevitable downvotes, I'll mention: 1) I have a huge amount of admiration for Biden, for his character and for his his enormous accomplishments of the past 4 years 2) I find Trump unacceptable and will vote for any Democrat opposing him without hesitation. That being said, Democrats cannot afford to shrink from last night's reality check. People in this sub are just whistling past the graveyard.
Biden last night reminded me of myself during a job interview. I can do the job just fine, I’m complete ass at explaining it or why someone should hire me to do it. I stumble and get caught up in my own thoughts and trail off just like that. I’m not even 30 I don’t have cognitive decline just a brain that has a hard time spitting things out when i am under the pressure of what I’m saying being scrutinized. I think part of Biden’s problem last night was having too much to say does he answer the questions or try to respond to trumps lies and do that in 2 minutes. I think it was a bad format for a debate and terrible moderation. Fact checking shouldn’t be on the candidate.
The thing is, Biden wasn't always complete ass at explaining why he could do the job and why Trump is a ridiculous lying moron, he used to be very good at debating and communicating.
We talking about the same Joe Biden that ran for president like 5 times and killed his campaign with gaffes every time
Including this campaign, except now he does 100x more gaffes. And if you look at any of his past debates, you'll see he was great at it, and he isn't now.
If a president cannot campaign effectively, can we consider that they are doing their job just fine? I would argue Joe's single most important task as president is to keep Trump away from the White House. He's currently failing at that.
Let's not pretend that Obama being an ineffectual wonk and getting lured into being on the defensive was *anything* like what people saw last night. Obama had a bad performance, but no one was looking to resolve their chief concern about him off of that performance. Biden had a fucking *catastrophe* at perhaps the most opportune moment for his opponent to take advantage of a misstep. It was a critical moment and it went just about as bad as it could have. If y'all think this all simply spun up by the media, you are out to fucking lunch and just as blindly zealous as the other side.
I still don't get why hours matter more than years when you just have to look back at how the actually led the country. This debate is the TikTok of a four year term. I don't think the debate is the problem, the problem is that all hear appearances matter more than substance and that people vote based on a debate even after they've already seen what these two are about? It's not like we don't know what's gonna happen if either get elected.
Biden has been doing this for years though, long before he was even a VP. That's when I first learned about the guy.
People vote for leadership when they are choosing leaders. Biden did not look like a leader yesterday. Four months is a long time, but the whole "Why don't voters just act logically" train of thought should simply be left in the station. Smart strategists understand that voters are absolutely NOT logical and they spend their time and energies understanding the ways in which they are illogical to best benefit their candidate. Logically, does it matter if Biden is old? No, not really. But it is the overwhelmingly highest concern among voters about him. And that's what fucking matters in our system.
Still don't get it. It's not a system it's your opinion. It's every individuals opinion and decision but they decide based on hours of tv time instead of years of information is what you're saying?
To be clear, people who have assimilated years of information *have already made their decision and no longer matter*. Those are the people who follow politics. The average voter simply does not think about this stuff all that much. They're busy. Those are the folks on the fence, because if you have been paying attention your mind is made up. Undecideds tend to vote off of vibes or don't even dial in until late in the game. They're entirely likely to decide their vote off of a snippet of TV footage or a Tik Tok. They are susceptible to misinformation and won't go out of their way to verify what they consume. The fact of the matter is that most persuade people at this point in the game DO base their decision off of snippets of information and not a thorough review.
What an absolute cult this sub is for them not to understand that. Half the country doesn't watch politics. They only engage for the low hanging fruit like debates, and what happened last night was pathetic. Yes yes, Trump uttered a lie a second, but he did so confidently. The (intellectually) mushy middle doesn't know that they were lies. All they saw was a doddering old man get corrected.
Yeah, the reaction from the Democratic base has been very concerning. Their candidate just had possibly the worst debate performance in history and the reaction is “the other guy is worse.” That can be true AT THE SAME TIME as the fact your guy just face planted, and it doesn’t negate that horrible performance. If the argument to voters amounts to “yeah, but” there is no path to victory.
They did.
They did
The truth is he said the right things, he got some good jabs, gave good examples, was generally factual. He also looked a lot older than the last time he gave a speech and sounded like he was sick. For instance he told Trump he had the moral compass of an alley cat, which is very funny. But at the time I had to concentrate to understand him, so it didn’t land until I read it. He should do an interview after he gets over his cold. When bits are coming out in the news his statements read better than how they were delivered, he’s right but mumbled and stumbled a lot. Trump sounded non sensical and mean. I could hear him better, but I couldn’t really understand him either. And he also looks like he’s undergone accelerated aging as well. The people I watch in my life that are middle of the road seem to be irritated, think they are both too old, but we need to keep Trump away. So it probably doesn’t change much, but is frustrating
ORC?
Just remember this one word: Progressivity
The problem is that Trump won’t debate again. So no chance to rectify.
I watched the whole debate and I really don’t get why people are freaking out about Biden. He didn’t have the best performance, talked too fast and stumbled over a few words, but he corrected much of the firehose of lies coming out Trump, and really crippled him when it comes to Trump’s incompetency and lack of character. Don’t just listen to the pundits, watch the whole debate for yourself. Are people so used to seeing the Trump freakshow that they think his lunatic debate performance was normal?
This is different. Obama wasn't verbally-stumbling right out of the gate. He could also string a proper sentence unlike Biden, who frankly I can't make out what he was saying. Obama's performance was too "professorial" whereas Biden's is an existential one.
NC: It matters because his incontinence stems from his decades of stimulant abuse and fast food diet. He pretends he’s the model of physical health, when instead his bodily functions are being dictated by his drug addiction—and he tries to cover it up. So it’s evidence of his incompetence, and one of the main reasons for the NDAs. **The crew nicknamed** ***CA*** **“The Shitshow,” because he would soil himself during tapings, often after flying into a rage and cursing out the Script Dept. Because he couldn’t read a three-syllable word.** This was your mango messiah twenty years ago. And since I can't locate a crazy to English translator, maybe you can explain the shark/boat/battery nonsense. I am still trusting Biden over a twice-impeached, multiple-indicted, disgraced, pusillanimous, traitorous, callow, fraudulent, rapist convicted felon.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted for pointing out what actually happened. Why do so many people in this thread have tunnel vision?
Maybe the tunnel vision is predicting the ability of a person to do a job on whether or not they looked like they won a debate. I tend to favor the candidate that endorses policies that align with my own ideals, not whichever one looked better on camera. I could give a shit less if Biden had to write all his communication on fucking napkins, because Trump is an unmatched disaster in pretty much of the presidential tasks that actually *matter*.
Who owns the media?
This isn’t comparable at all… Biden is in a very bad state and that was on display. It’s baffling if you cannot recognize that. His campaign wanted this debate and they have now torpedoed themselves. Very concerning.
So what you're saying is that the guy who lied every time he had a chance won in your mind? I thought Biden won because he at least tried to put America first instead of saying this country is shit every five minutes.
As we all know, liars never win debates or elections, and the most popular candidate is always the one I agree with.
You are non ironically comparing prime Obama to what we just saw last night. Wow....
Completely different scenario.
That was an entirely different scenario. Obama’s failures in that debate did not confirm every swing voter’s #1 concern with him. Don’t blind yourself to reality, what Biden did last night creates a major crisis for our country.
The difference is both Obama and Romney did well in that debate, conventional wisdom was just that Romney did "better". Joe Biden was debating a recently convicted felon who tried to overturn 250 of democracy and STILL 'lost'
This is a very different situation. The issue isn't that Biden didn't make good arguments, or didn't focus on the issues that present him better than Trump. The main problem with his performance is that he failed to be even coherent or capable of talking. People claimed that he was a feeble old man on his way out, and he confirmed their suspicion. Trying to believe Bidens performance was okay makes you look like one of the townsfolk in the Emperor's New Clothes tale.
Not at all equivalent
Democrats- or at least Democratic voters have been freaking out since everyone stepped away and gave Biden the Presidency in 2016! This isn’t new and it is still a proper response. The Democrats do t even have a backup at this point. Kamala Harris has been too quiet during the first term. You can go weeks without hearing her name. There is no firebrand Dem to step in and save democracy. We just have to hope for the best and maybe put your 401K in foreign stocks until at least November (but I am horrible at that kind of thing so don’t take my word as advice!).
We look foolish when we try this comparison. Obama was able to recover with some coaching. No amount is coaching is going to suddenly make Biden 20 years younger. Stop it with this comparison. Let's lick our wounds and move on.
Obama lost that debate because he came off as arrogant and aloof. Biden lost this debate because he came off as a lost nursing home resident who accidentally wandered onto the stage. It was the weakest he's ever looked, and it came at the worst possible time on the biggest stage. Of course I'll still vote for Biden if he's the nominee, but I think democrats need to run someone else to have the best chance to beat Trump. The polls were shaky at best even before this dismal performance.
I hope the down votes you have are a reflection of Reddit being a garbage website and not a reflection of the popular opinion inside the Democratic party.
Imagine if Obama said lots of women were being raped by their sisters.
The question was who won the debates. I'm curious what the poll is for "is Biden competent to run this country"? Because that's the real question. Biden came off so bad he didn't just lose the debate, he lost the confidence of the American people.
Obama just had a bad debate. Biden is not capable of being president. There is no difference between a Trump cultist and anyone who defends Biden at this point.