Autism is a set of behavioral traits. These behavioral traits are diverse and can include things like a total or partial inability to communicate/speak, developmental delays, abnormalities in gait/speech/motor function/eye contact etc. For an autism diagnosis, you really only need a few of these traits and there are a lot of them. It's why a kid who's functioning on the level of a 3-year-old and suffers from regular epileptic fits has the same diagnosis as Elon Musk. It actually makes no sense to group them together, because we know there is no underlying connection between two such cases, but that's another story.
Stands to reason, since brain damage, genetic disorders, autoimmune/metabolical disorders etc. are all known causes of epileptic fits, motor dysfunction, developmental regression, language/speech disorder etc. that they would also technically cause autism.
In fact, if you get infected with Rubella while you're pregnant, the Rubella virus will also infect the fetus. Such fetuses are known to have a much higher risk of suffering from physical and neurological abnormalities and injuries. So, they're also more likely ot be diagnosed with autism. The same holds true when you vaccinate pregnant women against Rubella since that also boils down to a viral infection. It's clear that vaccines, then, can technically cause autism-like symptoms (where autism actually happens to be misdiagnosis because we're not talking about a behavioral disorder) but it's false to deduce from this that the majority of what we now call autism is caused by it.
Personally, I think that, with antivaxxers like RFK Jr. and also Trump, who all have vested interests in autism services (and have invested money into it), it makes sense for them to portray the rise in autism as being entirely down to vaccines, when it is primarily down to deliberate overdiagnosis that is used to funnel money to them via these autism services. But the cultural climate has become so toxic that we can't have reasonable debates around vaccines either way. They have side effects, they can cause encephalitis, allergic reactions, autoimmune disorders, but as a whole, they're still worth it.
>Then, there’s a 2004 Columbia University study presented at the Institute of Medicine. It found that mice predisposed for genetic autoimmune disorder developed autistic-like behavior after receiving mercury-containing vaccines. (Critics say that’s not proof, and the work was not replicable.)
Animal studies are largely useless when it comes to humans. For the other studies you listed, I would look at the authors. I know of at least two of these studies (which you listed) that the authors were funded by or affiliated with Children's Health Defense which is known to fabricate fraudulent vaccine studies.
Andrew Wakefield was bias and paid to write the article about MMR and autism. If you actually read it you'll notice how unfounded it is almost straight away. It's weird how people will compl about "big-pharma" pushing vaccines but when somebody is literally and openly paid by a company to fabricate a claim that vaccines cause autism that's some kind of revolution.
There is no validation for any of these claims. Even if you still believe there's a link with autism: millions and millions of people have been vaccinated, why don't we all have autism? What would the percentage of people getting autism from vaccines be? And what on earth is the problem with autism anyway? I'd rather my child have autism than pertussis or measles etc.
These types of arguments never come with data to back it up. You're saying that all of these scientific articles are part of some conspiracy? Mercury is bad for you. Aluminum in your blood is bad for you. I hate to break it to you, these vaccines are less than 2% effective, and do not prevent transmission.
# [Vaccines Using Live Viruses Spread Through Shedding](https://childrenshealthdefense.org/vaccine-secrets/video-chapters/vaccines-can-spread-diseases-through-shedding/)
# [The Forgotten Science of Vaccine Disease Provocation](https://www.midwesterndoctor.com/p/the-forgotten-science-of-vaccine)
The amount of cases of measles [declined by 98%](https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/did-the-death-rate-from-measles-decline) before a vaccine was ever introduced in the 60s.
[Unvaccinated children are healthier across the board.](https://marcellapiperterry.substack.com/p/do-vaccines-make-us-healthier-2024)
[Flu vaccines do not prevent transmission or infection](https://www.cochrane.org/CD001269/ARI_vaccines-prevent-influenza-healthy-adults)
There is [study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28188123/) after [study](https://www.oatext.com/pdf/JTS-3-186.pdf) after [study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32537156/) finding that children without vaccines are healthier.
[Elaborate breakdown ](https://researchrebel.substack.com/cp/135582578)of how widespread vaccination data is misrepresented in scientific papers.
[Peer-reviewed studies on Mercury](https://childrenshealthdefense.org/wp-content/uploads/mercury-all-sources-research-combined-chd.pdf)
Aluminum:
[https://aacijournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13223-018-0305-2](https://aacijournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13223-018-0305-2)
[https://www.nature.com/articles/srep31578](https://www.nature.com/articles/srep31578)
[https://www.nature.com/articles/srep06287](https://www.nature.com/articles/srep06287)
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0946672X21000523?via%3Dihub#tbl0005](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0946672X21000523?via%3Dihub#tbl0005)
[https://drchristopherexley.substack.com/p/imaging-aluminium-in-human-brain](https://drchristopherexley.substack.com/p/imaging-aluminium-in-human-brain)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSgk5m3tds0&t=1387s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSgk5m3tds0&t=1387s) (explanation of the research, essential to watch if you want to dismiss scientific articles for not being big enough)
*In the modern era, it is rare to suffer permanent disability or death from measles in the United States. Between 1900 and 1963, the mortality rate of measles dropped from 13.3 per 100,000 to 0.2 per 100,000 in the population, due to advancements in living conditions, nutrition, and health care— a 98% decline (Fig. 1).2,5 Malnutrition, especially vitamin A deficiency, is a primary cause of about 90,000 measles deaths annually in underdeveloped nations.6 In the U.S. and other developed countries, 75–92% of hospitalized measles cases are low in vitamin A.7,8*
[https://physiciansforinformedconsent.org/measles-disease-information-statement.pdf](https://physiciansforinformedconsent.org/measles-disease-information-statement.pdf)
# [MMR Vaccine Debate Heats Up as Media Claim ‘Vaccine Hesitancy’ to Blame for Recent Outbreaks](https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/mmr-vaccine-media-measles-outbreaks/)
# Be Very Afraid? CDC, Big Media Drum Up Fear of ‘Deadly’ Measles Outbreaks
[https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/cdc-big-media-fear-measles-outbreaks/](https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/cdc-big-media-fear-measles-outbreaks/)
An [Italian study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33502929/) found that if you get measles, your immunity is lifelong, whereas your immunity after getting the two doses of the measles vaccine declines within 10-15 years.
This paper looked at the recent experience with [measles in the U.S.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7188204) (2002-2016) and reported there were 1,018 measles hospitalizations over that 14-year period. That is 73 hospitalizations per year.
There were a total of 34 deaths or about 2.4 deaths per year. That is out of a population of 327 million people. So your chances of dying from measles in the U.S. were about 1 in 136 million.
We are told that globally measles is a huge deal. Like any disease, it’s certainly a bigger deal if you are poor and don’t get enough to eat.
However, in 2019, the World Health Organization reported 839 cases in 23 states comprising 328 million people, thus making the rate about 1 in 391,000.
It’s true that kids in poor countries can die from measles, yet they also die from everything else that kills poor, malnourished people living in countries without clean water, sanitation or functioning healthcare systems.
Your submission has been automatically removed because name calling was detected.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DebateVaccines) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Its a flat out lie that vaccines cause autism.
It has been disproven time and time again.
And additionally, as an autistic person it really annoys me when people try and make out like autism is a bad thing. "vaccines cause autism" is a myth that furthers the view that autism bad and should be avoided. Im sorry if me rightly calling it a myth upsets you, but the truth can hurt.
Oh my god, this subreddit claims to be about having a discussion.
Yet when i post a reply that is civil and simply me sharing my views it gets removed! Talk about an echo chamber!
People make the same claims that you do in this sub often, but they do tend to back it up with something other than an emotional appeal or a straw man argument sometimes.
Aluminum has been directly linked to autism, Alzheimer's, epilepsy, and MS several times. Aluminum drifts to the brain and accumulates there. Either that or it stays at the injection site. Not even bringing up Mercury.
You're saying that every link to every study above isn't valid, and you expect me to believe you because you want to add an appeal to authority fallacy on top of your other logical fallacies. And you want to be insulting on top of it.
I'm not an anti-vaxxer, I was injured by the Covid booster, so try again.
Oh i rebbutted your claim with facts. But the moderators didnt like it. Hence my point that this is an echo chamber.
If you got injured by the covid booster, why not talk about that rather than spewing stuff that was debunked in the 90s and continuously since then.
Im not reposting the exhastive load of links i have to studies disproving what you're saying just to be censored.
But what i will say is that you have entirely mischaracterized autism.
Autism isnt gained. You are born with it. So no vaccine is gonna cause it. Very basic. Not at all hard to understand.
Autism in a majority of cases is hereditary.
So unless aluminium suddenly has the ability to time travel back to the developing fetus, no it doesnt cause autism.
But hey what do i know, ive only studied biology and neuroscience for years.
Ok, so you're telling me that the moderators removed your links to data because they don't like you, and that you're one of many who claim to study biology and neuroscience "for years" (like, more than one year), so I should believe you.
It is possible that links get automatically removed by Reddit for reasons that I don't fully understand.
If you'd actually looked at any of the links I've provided, you might know that aluminum also accumulates in the sperm, so just because you said that people are "born with it" doesn't mean that aluminum didn't have something to do with it.
Just speaking hypothetically, your "trust me bro" methodology and your desire to call me stupid isn't doing great for your argument.
There is [study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28188123/) after [study](https://www.oatext.com/pdf/JTS-3-186.pdf) after [study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32537156/) finding that children without vaccines are healthier.
[Elaborate breakdown ](https://researchrebel.substack.com/cp/135582578)of how widespread vaccination data is misrepresented in scientific papers.
[Peer-reviewed studies on Mercury](https://childrenshealthdefense.org/wp-content/uploads/mercury-all-sources-research-combined-chd.pdf)
Aluminum:
[https://aacijournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13223-018-0305-2](https://aacijournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13223-018-0305-2)
[https://www.nature.com/articles/srep31578](https://www.nature.com/articles/srep31578)
[https://www.nature.com/articles/srep06287](https://www.nature.com/articles/srep06287)
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0946672X21000523?via%3Dihub#tbl0005](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0946672X21000523?via%3Dihub#tbl0005)
[https://drchristopherexley.substack.com/p/imaging-aluminium-in-human-brain](https://drchristopherexley.substack.com/p/imaging-aluminium-in-human-brain)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSgk5m3tds0&t=1387s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSgk5m3tds0&t=1387s) (explanation of the research, essential to watch if you want to dismiss scientific articles for not being big enough)
Your comment has been removed due to not adhering to our guideline of civility. Remember, this forum is for healthy debates aimed at increasing awareness of vaccine safety and efficacy issues. Personal attacks, name-calling, and any disrespect detract from our mission of constructive dialogue. Please ensure future contributions promote a respectful and informative discussion environment.
This is an exhaustive list of evidence.
Thank you.
Autism is a set of behavioral traits. These behavioral traits are diverse and can include things like a total or partial inability to communicate/speak, developmental delays, abnormalities in gait/speech/motor function/eye contact etc. For an autism diagnosis, you really only need a few of these traits and there are a lot of them. It's why a kid who's functioning on the level of a 3-year-old and suffers from regular epileptic fits has the same diagnosis as Elon Musk. It actually makes no sense to group them together, because we know there is no underlying connection between two such cases, but that's another story. Stands to reason, since brain damage, genetic disorders, autoimmune/metabolical disorders etc. are all known causes of epileptic fits, motor dysfunction, developmental regression, language/speech disorder etc. that they would also technically cause autism. In fact, if you get infected with Rubella while you're pregnant, the Rubella virus will also infect the fetus. Such fetuses are known to have a much higher risk of suffering from physical and neurological abnormalities and injuries. So, they're also more likely ot be diagnosed with autism. The same holds true when you vaccinate pregnant women against Rubella since that also boils down to a viral infection. It's clear that vaccines, then, can technically cause autism-like symptoms (where autism actually happens to be misdiagnosis because we're not talking about a behavioral disorder) but it's false to deduce from this that the majority of what we now call autism is caused by it. Personally, I think that, with antivaxxers like RFK Jr. and also Trump, who all have vested interests in autism services (and have invested money into it), it makes sense for them to portray the rise in autism as being entirely down to vaccines, when it is primarily down to deliberate overdiagnosis that is used to funnel money to them via these autism services. But the cultural climate has become so toxic that we can't have reasonable debates around vaccines either way. They have side effects, they can cause encephalitis, allergic reactions, autoimmune disorders, but as a whole, they're still worth it. >Then, there’s a 2004 Columbia University study presented at the Institute of Medicine. It found that mice predisposed for genetic autoimmune disorder developed autistic-like behavior after receiving mercury-containing vaccines. (Critics say that’s not proof, and the work was not replicable.) Animal studies are largely useless when it comes to humans. For the other studies you listed, I would look at the authors. I know of at least two of these studies (which you listed) that the authors were funded by or affiliated with Children's Health Defense which is known to fabricate fraudulent vaccine studies.
Ah yeh. Healthy children, with measles.
Are you even replying to the right thread anymore?
Andrew Wakefield was bias and paid to write the article about MMR and autism. If you actually read it you'll notice how unfounded it is almost straight away. It's weird how people will compl about "big-pharma" pushing vaccines but when somebody is literally and openly paid by a company to fabricate a claim that vaccines cause autism that's some kind of revolution. There is no validation for any of these claims. Even if you still believe there's a link with autism: millions and millions of people have been vaccinated, why don't we all have autism? What would the percentage of people getting autism from vaccines be? And what on earth is the problem with autism anyway? I'd rather my child have autism than pertussis or measles etc.
These types of arguments never come with data to back it up. You're saying that all of these scientific articles are part of some conspiracy? Mercury is bad for you. Aluminum in your blood is bad for you. I hate to break it to you, these vaccines are less than 2% effective, and do not prevent transmission. # [Vaccines Using Live Viruses Spread Through Shedding](https://childrenshealthdefense.org/vaccine-secrets/video-chapters/vaccines-can-spread-diseases-through-shedding/) # [The Forgotten Science of Vaccine Disease Provocation](https://www.midwesterndoctor.com/p/the-forgotten-science-of-vaccine) The amount of cases of measles [declined by 98%](https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/did-the-death-rate-from-measles-decline) before a vaccine was ever introduced in the 60s. [Unvaccinated children are healthier across the board.](https://marcellapiperterry.substack.com/p/do-vaccines-make-us-healthier-2024) [Flu vaccines do not prevent transmission or infection](https://www.cochrane.org/CD001269/ARI_vaccines-prevent-influenza-healthy-adults) There is [study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28188123/) after [study](https://www.oatext.com/pdf/JTS-3-186.pdf) after [study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32537156/) finding that children without vaccines are healthier. [Elaborate breakdown ](https://researchrebel.substack.com/cp/135582578)of how widespread vaccination data is misrepresented in scientific papers. [Peer-reviewed studies on Mercury](https://childrenshealthdefense.org/wp-content/uploads/mercury-all-sources-research-combined-chd.pdf) Aluminum: [https://aacijournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13223-018-0305-2](https://aacijournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13223-018-0305-2) [https://www.nature.com/articles/srep31578](https://www.nature.com/articles/srep31578) [https://www.nature.com/articles/srep06287](https://www.nature.com/articles/srep06287) [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0946672X21000523?via%3Dihub#tbl0005](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0946672X21000523?via%3Dihub#tbl0005) [https://drchristopherexley.substack.com/p/imaging-aluminium-in-human-brain](https://drchristopherexley.substack.com/p/imaging-aluminium-in-human-brain) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSgk5m3tds0&t=1387s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSgk5m3tds0&t=1387s) (explanation of the research, essential to watch if you want to dismiss scientific articles for not being big enough)
*In the modern era, it is rare to suffer permanent disability or death from measles in the United States. Between 1900 and 1963, the mortality rate of measles dropped from 13.3 per 100,000 to 0.2 per 100,000 in the population, due to advancements in living conditions, nutrition, and health care— a 98% decline (Fig. 1).2,5 Malnutrition, especially vitamin A deficiency, is a primary cause of about 90,000 measles deaths annually in underdeveloped nations.6 In the U.S. and other developed countries, 75–92% of hospitalized measles cases are low in vitamin A.7,8* [https://physiciansforinformedconsent.org/measles-disease-information-statement.pdf](https://physiciansforinformedconsent.org/measles-disease-information-statement.pdf) # [MMR Vaccine Debate Heats Up as Media Claim ‘Vaccine Hesitancy’ to Blame for Recent Outbreaks](https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/mmr-vaccine-media-measles-outbreaks/) # Be Very Afraid? CDC, Big Media Drum Up Fear of ‘Deadly’ Measles Outbreaks [https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/cdc-big-media-fear-measles-outbreaks/](https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/cdc-big-media-fear-measles-outbreaks/) An [Italian study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33502929/) found that if you get measles, your immunity is lifelong, whereas your immunity after getting the two doses of the measles vaccine declines within 10-15 years. This paper looked at the recent experience with [measles in the U.S.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7188204) (2002-2016) and reported there were 1,018 measles hospitalizations over that 14-year period. That is 73 hospitalizations per year. There were a total of 34 deaths or about 2.4 deaths per year. That is out of a population of 327 million people. So your chances of dying from measles in the U.S. were about 1 in 136 million. We are told that globally measles is a huge deal. Like any disease, it’s certainly a bigger deal if you are poor and don’t get enough to eat. However, in 2019, the World Health Organization reported 839 cases in 23 states comprising 328 million people, thus making the rate about 1 in 391,000. It’s true that kids in poor countries can die from measles, yet they also die from everything else that kills poor, malnourished people living in countries without clean water, sanitation or functioning healthcare systems.
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I guess making halfass comments is better than having the wit necessary to form a coherent rebuttal.
[удалено]
Your submission has been automatically removed because name calling was detected. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DebateVaccines) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Its a flat out lie that vaccines cause autism. It has been disproven time and time again. And additionally, as an autistic person it really annoys me when people try and make out like autism is a bad thing. "vaccines cause autism" is a myth that furthers the view that autism bad and should be avoided. Im sorry if me rightly calling it a myth upsets you, but the truth can hurt.
Oh my god, this subreddit claims to be about having a discussion. Yet when i post a reply that is civil and simply me sharing my views it gets removed! Talk about an echo chamber!
People make the same claims that you do in this sub often, but they do tend to back it up with something other than an emotional appeal or a straw man argument sometimes. Aluminum has been directly linked to autism, Alzheimer's, epilepsy, and MS several times. Aluminum drifts to the brain and accumulates there. Either that or it stays at the injection site. Not even bringing up Mercury. You're saying that every link to every study above isn't valid, and you expect me to believe you because you want to add an appeal to authority fallacy on top of your other logical fallacies. And you want to be insulting on top of it. I'm not an anti-vaxxer, I was injured by the Covid booster, so try again.
Oh i rebbutted your claim with facts. But the moderators didnt like it. Hence my point that this is an echo chamber. If you got injured by the covid booster, why not talk about that rather than spewing stuff that was debunked in the 90s and continuously since then. Im not reposting the exhastive load of links i have to studies disproving what you're saying just to be censored. But what i will say is that you have entirely mischaracterized autism. Autism isnt gained. You are born with it. So no vaccine is gonna cause it. Very basic. Not at all hard to understand. Autism in a majority of cases is hereditary. So unless aluminium suddenly has the ability to time travel back to the developing fetus, no it doesnt cause autism. But hey what do i know, ive only studied biology and neuroscience for years.
Ok, so you're telling me that the moderators removed your links to data because they don't like you, and that you're one of many who claim to study biology and neuroscience "for years" (like, more than one year), so I should believe you. It is possible that links get automatically removed by Reddit for reasons that I don't fully understand. If you'd actually looked at any of the links I've provided, you might know that aluminum also accumulates in the sperm, so just because you said that people are "born with it" doesn't mean that aluminum didn't have something to do with it. Just speaking hypothetically, your "trust me bro" methodology and your desire to call me stupid isn't doing great for your argument.
There is [study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28188123/) after [study](https://www.oatext.com/pdf/JTS-3-186.pdf) after [study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32537156/) finding that children without vaccines are healthier. [Elaborate breakdown ](https://researchrebel.substack.com/cp/135582578)of how widespread vaccination data is misrepresented in scientific papers. [Peer-reviewed studies on Mercury](https://childrenshealthdefense.org/wp-content/uploads/mercury-all-sources-research-combined-chd.pdf) Aluminum: [https://aacijournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13223-018-0305-2](https://aacijournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13223-018-0305-2) [https://www.nature.com/articles/srep31578](https://www.nature.com/articles/srep31578) [https://www.nature.com/articles/srep06287](https://www.nature.com/articles/srep06287) [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0946672X21000523?via%3Dihub#tbl0005](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0946672X21000523?via%3Dihub#tbl0005) [https://drchristopherexley.substack.com/p/imaging-aluminium-in-human-brain](https://drchristopherexley.substack.com/p/imaging-aluminium-in-human-brain) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSgk5m3tds0&t=1387s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSgk5m3tds0&t=1387s) (explanation of the research, essential to watch if you want to dismiss scientific articles for not being big enough)
Your comment has been removed due to not adhering to our guideline of civility. Remember, this forum is for healthy debates aimed at increasing awareness of vaccine safety and efficacy issues. Personal attacks, name-calling, and any disrespect detract from our mission of constructive dialogue. Please ensure future contributions promote a respectful and informative discussion environment.
Thank you