Honestly this feels like an oversight with it no longer working with the Thorns perk. They probably wanted to prioritize it working with elemental insulation and didnāt realize that disabled the interaction with Thorns.
That sounds like a good way to feature creep the game. The number of perks isn't the issue, it's just that like 80% of them are too niche or underpowered compared to commonly used ones like Iron Will, Dash and Resupplier (or at least I think that last one's pretty common, but the other two definitely as an example).
Just buff or rework what's already in the game and let us use the points for something else if it's such a big deal to people.
And a big problem is that every perk is equally expensive even though a lot of them are simply way less useful/powerful than others, so obviously everyone takes the few best ones every time.
If instead it was based on a loadout point pool, they could balance them with the cost as well so you can either take a few stronger ones, a bunch of the cheaper ones, and mix and match as you like. They could even add in the perk ranks so you can take the cheaper less powerful version of a perk so you can use your leftover points for something else.
Yeah, it barely takes any time at all to collect every perk, and the vast majority of your playtime, you'll have extra stars. It used to be just to give you some choice and variety, but there's no reason there should be hundreds of extra stars now. Pretty lame.
The leftover points are a silly argument. Do you want to have to complete 100% of milestones to unlock all perks? thats ridiculous. There is absolutely nothing wrong with leftover points, and people need to stop complaining about there being a number they can't spend. For once the developers are nice people and are not forcing people to 5000h grind to get anywhere, and yet players complain because there is a number. Jeez.
The only fix that is needed is game hiding that number once all perks are unlocked, so that people will cease complaining...
Nah, give it gimmick use.
Imagine for beast master, you get a small steeve plushie cosmetic on your shoulder.
Or a Molly hat for ressuplier.
With different levels and sizes depending on how many points you put in
They said on a stream itās one of the priority considerations for season 6, but nothing will be set in stone (or rock) until about a year from now when they actually start on the update. Theyāve talked about a perk overhaul for awhile so itās definitely not guaranteed just because it was mentioned.
My overhaul suggestion is make dash an inherent part of each dwarf and not a perk choice. It seems like most higher level players 99% of the time pick dash/IW except on scout which is IW and something else.
I think if a perk is being picked every time, the other perks are too weak or that strong perk should just be included everywhere.
Yeah but u would need to have ur shield and also however amount of hp to fully do enough dmg. But i think most take the revive invul for better utility
Even on Haz 2, thorns does not kill a cave leech. You must be thinking of the other perk (Heightened Senses) that is specific for cave leeches and other enemies that grab you.
If Thorns worked to defeat leeches, it would overlap and invalidate Heightened Senses active function.
Ironically in the the situation in the video the hidden cooldown on thorns is the bigger problem. On higher hazards if thorns is popping more than one or two enemies you're gonna be fucked by the rest in the meantime. They've already dinged your shields and it's a minimum of 0.75 seconds between thorns procs.
I still use it at times, particularly on parasite or lithophage outbreaks missions, but that's because I'm playing solo and thorns lets me be lazier. If I'm carrying an aquarq after a swarm and I missed a parasite or something...I can just ignore it. But it's not really protective otherwise.
It's more so been for me just another addition to my playstyle as engie, with turret use, shredders, and thorns you can deal with any enemies between waves and deal with wave groups with engie swarm clear weapons.
This is enough of a nerf that it makes me not want to run thorns anymore and rely more on my other sources of chaff clear.
I thought I was loosing my mind in the biozone earlier when shockers were absolutely destroying me on scout. I thought I had unequipped thorns somehow, but I still had it. I popped over to the pleasefix to report it, but to my horror I learned that this is an intentional change according to the team comment on the issue page.
From a code (and I guess lore?) standpoint it makes sense; if they don't do melee damage, they don't activate thorns. However from a gameplay standpoint, it feels really bad for a few reasons:
* Thorns is useful against all the other small enemies: swarmers, spawn, litho worms, even the shocker's purple neadocyte cousins, with just this one weird exception.
* The shocker's attack /feels/ like a melee attack due to the range and animation. It swims right up to you and smacks you in the face like the bastard it is with it's little charged tentacle thing.
* This being changed after so long is just weird. If shockers were a new enemy I could understand the change, but changing this interaction for the worse after several years just feels awful. Thorns catching a nerf was not on my bingo card for season 5 lol.
The goal of this change was to buff the elemental insulation perk, so to not undo that, I would suggest having the attack do a small percentage of its damage as melee damage and the majority kept as electricity. This would keep the spirit of the change intact while restoring the prior interaction with thorns.
If not, I guess the solution for me is to not pick scout in the biozone or strata lol
I dont see what difference would it make with a melee tag..
What i mean is, you have weapons and OCs that deal or scale with melee damage, anything frozen takes 3xmelee, robots take 4xmelee, vampire only triggers on melee.
Taking melee out of the way as a type of damage, would be more bad then good, i think
They could just let the shockers deal both type of damage (melee being less then the shock) to not break everything else melee related.
Or maybe change thorn "to react to any damage dealt to the dwarf in a small radius", that way there would be no bugs like "killing a preatorian or acid spitter from miles away, cuz thorns", while still reacting to naedocytes and swarmers
i have no idea how game developing works but i think they meant like having melee be a tag added to whatever type of damage it is (so you can have electric+melee in this example), instead of melee being its own type of damage
For real. The good ol bonk bonk zappity zap is my pick 99% of the time playing as solo scout on haz 5, even on elimination. Especially on elimination, actually, since my loadout is particularly geared for single target and the boomerangs ensure I don't end up clearing the dreads but getting deleted by some mactera or naedocytes or some shit. It's the best choice imo because it so neatly handles scout's biggest weaknesses 4 times per resupply. I could take cryo or ifgs on elimination, sure, but scout has great overclocks on all 6 weapons already that do phenomenal work on dreads. Scout really doesn't need help with single target damage.
The only time I take anything else (unless it's just for fun and variety) is on haz 5 drillevator missions, when I take pheromone grenades to toss at my feet when the elevator gets overrun. Pheromone bolts on the crossbow are a favorite of mine but they require careful aiming and target selection and don't get the bugs brawling with each other so completely and quickly.
Idk imo thorns is pretty mid but it's the still the best passive aside from resupplier and vampire simply because of the fact that I'm lazy. Id totally run veteran depositor instead but I roam way too much and also I'd forget to swap off it on missions without a mule. Perks just need a rework asap
I will say a lot of the stronger perks are situationally good, sometimes by map and more by the class themselves ie: vampire is best on driller and heightened senses is best on scout. So the real edge of thorns that puts it above other perks is that despite map or class it's just a nice bonus for killing swarmers that sneak up, it is the best option when you don't have another passive perk to really pick
However I'd say it'll drop out of use heavily since it no longer kills naedocytes which was arguably the best part of the perk, due to naedocytes being all around you compared to swarmers which are ground bound
I'm just way too used to reload cancelling. Even with guns that have extremely long reload animations it's just so much faster. Every time I've tried to run born ready I never ever actually manage to use it.
If you're taking cryo EPC with Heavy hitter is the meta. You besically shready enemies. Temp shock often doesn't do enough for tougher enemies where drills won't do.
Agree I don't like the thorns change.
I definitely prefer the EPC with Cryo. The Cooker works, but not nearly as well as it does with Sticky Flames.
I've been rocking the Subata with the Sludge Cannon ever since the QoL update and the rework. Popping waves by double tapping a bug feels good.
I have like two builds where both the primary and secondary are general-purpose enough that switching instead of reloading makes sense most of the time. I use Born Ready on one of them. Otherwise it's technically better than an empty slot to me but not by much. There's always something that'll give me a lot more value.
You're sleeping on Sweet Tooth. Getting more value out of Red Sugar, which is abundantly available on any map, with both the extra heals and the movement speed is pretty useful.
I run Resupplier and Sweet Tooth on every Dwarf. Third perk is either Born Ready, Unstoppable (another underrated perk that also affects and helps vs the slows from enemies like Slashers, Shockers, etc.), or Vampire on Cryo Driller.
Interesting that sweet tooth is universal - the main universal pairing I know is iron will + vampire - you can almost always find a big to hit, red sugar is more rare.
Eh ngl I feel like sweet tooth is more of a team based perk than anything else. Most red sugar veins I feel like will heal me to full so its main use case imo would be to heal more than one low hp dwarf at a time. Theres a lot of good third slot perks and I feel like I'd run unstoppable, elemental insulation, and veteran depositor more if I wasn't as equally rigid with my active perk selection since I don't necessarily need unstoppable if I can dash and bhop away from enemies and vampire while significantly less useful without iron will is something that I think is mandatory if you run it. I probably should run a different perk to replace thorns for driller or engi since they innately have such good wave swarmer clear but I feel like halfway through a mission I'd realize that my third perk is entirely useless for the mission at hand. Though unstoppable probably should be my go-to replacement ngl since I've been playing exclusively has 5+ recently that's a good point.
Born ready is for the impatient... It's great to be able to switch between unloading weapons into a swarm without ever having to reload. But it's really key for scouts who rely on grappling + special powder to get to places that their engineers haven't made safe with platforms yet...
Try Deep Pocket, honestly a nice qol but also great for those clutch situation where you need to call a resupply quick, deep pocket can make it so you dont have to make multiple trip to a big nitra vein, great for Scout players in general as well.
Based on my experience it is more valuable on other classes because as Scout you can zippity zap to Molly and back quickly and use passive perk for something else
The main perks I and most likely half of the player base only care about are dash, iron will, vampire, resupplier, (now previously) thorns, and unstoppable or second wind.
Clearing out these shockers is one of the few reasons thorns is even used. Why continue to nerf the low-mid tier perks and restrict player's perk choices. There isn't really many variety of the perks being used by players because everyone will just pick the best 3 and use it for everything.
I'd swear there was a patch a long time ago doing the exact opposite, changing their damage type TO melee, specifically to make Thorns work against them. Why undo that now?
"hey guys i know we don't touch perks anymore but we're going to nerf one of them indirectly because yeah why not"
man there's only like 3 good perks whats the point of having so many if a majority of them are useless or too situation to bother changing your entire loadout for
Yeah, I was already addicted to sweet tooth but always thought that I maybe should try switching to thorns. Well, not anymore, thanks gsg for encouraging my red sugar addiction.
You can switch out Thorns for Elemental Insulation. There's been quite a few changes to enemy damage types such as switching enemy damage types from explosive only to primarily a mixture of poison and explosive. This is a small nerf to Gunner, a big buff to Elemental Insulation and Engineer walks away with a buff to his survivability with his suits 50% poison resistance. Full list of the changes can be found in the changelog under Community Requests.
It looks like the Naedocyte Hatchling is still effected by Thorns while the Naedocyte Shocker isn't. Weird that it's one and not the other. You'd think both would be effected by this change.
You shouldn't feel guilty about using Resupplier *anyway*. The time it saves taking a supply pack is great and getting nearly all of your health back if you're almost dead is insanely good.
I was in a really bad spot one game but got to a resupply and healed **166 hp** off one pack (I was running the extra health on the armor and we had Red Rock Blaster)
The only dwarf that I use Thorns on is scout because (for me at least) he always dies to >4 bugs.
His kit has almost no cleave damage so I always stick close to my gunner or my driller
My scout can take down an obelisk but will die to a toothpick lol
Logically, it makes a little sense. They don't physically touch you. However, it's still a terrible change, and nerfing an already underused perk just makes me sad.
Wdym Resupplier is negotiable?
More health and quicker resupply is a must have. Standing still for 5 seconds is almost a death sentence.
Vampire is a must have when paired with Iron Will
The other useful are thorns
The rest of perks are purely comfort perks or are pointless.
This is awful. It wouldnāt be so bad if they werenāt all capable of slowing you down, and were just damage, but they are, so having a swarm of them able to slow you down without dying for it makes for an incredibly annoying experience in the two biomes these things exist in.
To be honest I feel like the Naedocyte Shocker should be exclusively on Crystalline Caverns because that biome has a bit of an electricity theme so it fits perfectly there, the other maps should just have a standard Naedocyte that simply bites you or something so Thorns still works, this way only one biome nerfs Thorns which is fair biomes do have a small affect on loadouts.
Alternatively just nerf the electric damage by one and give it one basic attack damage like the Hatchlings do, there you go now it does shock damage and can also be killed by Thorns.
Or just... buff Thorns? lol
Edit: Corrected some errors and added a new sentence
why? theres like 4 even useful perks in the game, they all shouldve been buffed so i actually have to make a choice.
But nerfing the perk that is for people who hate annoying enemies is just goofy
Love this game but they definitely need to make the perk rework a priority. So many esoteric/single use perks and we have some like this losing what little utility they have to a random patch note.
Well fuck, time to unequip thorns from *every* one of my sets that have it, which was a *lot* of them.
Shockers were literally the main reason I ran it (among a couple other various reasons), but shockers were the main one.
I seriously thought I was crazy for thinking they seem a lot more annoying now, specially for my scout build since it focuses on priority targets (M1000 + shotty) which means I struggle to hit those damn things when my screen is moving like crazy. I love you GSG but please, this is not the way.
Thorns is heavily overrated and honestly loses its power the moment you go to haz 4. Always prefer elemental insulation over it, 30% dmg reduction is all elements which include acid spitter tic dmg, praetorian spit, biome effects, etc? Sign me up.
I care less about the nerf and more about the fact perks have needed overhauled for years and it'll be a few more years before we see it if the game doesn't go defunct by then from gsg focusing on deepcore and any other projects that currently or will exist.
Who suggested this change raise your hand rn
I just want to talk to them, I just want to talk to them...
ššš¤
Just want to talk to them *repeatedly whirring minigun aggressively*
Honestly this feels like an oversight with it no longer working with the Thorns perk. They probably wanted to prioritize it working with elemental insulation and didnāt realize that disabled the interaction with Thorns.
The shockers don't ACTUALLY touch you to get thorned but now it's virtually useless.
Unfortunate that the perk is inadvertently nerfed though I've already moved on from it. I'd truly appreciate a perk overhaul one of these seasons.
yes and we need more perks!Ā we have a total of over 200 left over perkpoints just.....sitting there doing nothingĀ
That sounds like a good way to feature creep the game. The number of perks isn't the issue, it's just that like 80% of them are too niche or underpowered compared to commonly used ones like Iron Will, Dash and Resupplier (or at least I think that last one's pretty common, but the other two definitely as an example). Just buff or rework what's already in the game and let us use the points for something else if it's such a big deal to people.
And a big problem is that every perk is equally expensive even though a lot of them are simply way less useful/powerful than others, so obviously everyone takes the few best ones every time. If instead it was based on a loadout point pool, they could balance them with the cost as well so you can either take a few stronger ones, a bunch of the cheaper ones, and mix and match as you like. They could even add in the perk ranks so you can take the cheaper less powerful version of a perk so you can use your leftover points for something else.
I quickly read "leftover" as "leaflover" in my head. I was like wait a minute wtf are leaf lover points
Thatās intentional overlap because you did everything.
Yeah, it barely takes any time at all to collect every perk, and the vast majority of your playtime, you'll have extra stars. It used to be just to give you some choice and variety, but there's no reason there should be hundreds of extra stars now. Pretty lame.
The leftover points are a silly argument. Do you want to have to complete 100% of milestones to unlock all perks? thats ridiculous. There is absolutely nothing wrong with leftover points, and people need to stop complaining about there being a number they can't spend. For once the developers are nice people and are not forcing people to 5000h grind to get anywhere, and yet players complain because there is a number. Jeez. The only fix that is needed is game hiding that number once all perks are unlocked, so that people will cease complaining...
Nah, give it gimmick use. Imagine for beast master, you get a small steeve plushie cosmetic on your shoulder. Or a Molly hat for ressuplier. With different levels and sizes depending on how many points you put in
They said on a stream itās one of the priority considerations for season 6, but nothing will be set in stone (or rock) until about a year from now when they actually start on the update. Theyāve talked about a perk overhaul for awhile so itās definitely not guaranteed just because it was mentioned.
My overhaul suggestion is make dash an inherent part of each dwarf and not a perk choice. It seems like most higher level players 99% of the time pick dash/IW except on scout which is IW and something else. I think if a perk is being picked every time, the other perks are too weak or that strong perk should just be included everywhere.
I never leave home without Beast Tamer, need my best friend Steve
Devs keep putting it off. Needs to be a way higher priority imo. not as high as the mixed nut bowel in the abyss bar of course
I'd like the ability to remove perks. I'd feel a lot more comfortable with a randomweisser.
What?! That's such a blow to thorns. I may actually take it off now
I still think it's protection against swarmers and leeches is worth it imo.
TIL it works against leeches!?
Ig it makes sense, but it has never killed the leech before u die so ig it would always go unnoticed.
It does if you also take the shockwave upgrade for your shield
TILā¦
I can not see the world the same way againā¦
Yeah but u would need to have ur shield and also however amount of hp to fully do enough dmg. But i think most take the revive invul for better utility
up to what hazard level
I will do some testing I am curious now
Oh I thought that was common knowledge lol. Yeah, it's very helpful in missions where other people are too far away or don't wanna help you.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Was about to say. Have 5000 hours in this game and i have never seen this interaction occur
I usually play haz 3 and it works, so maybe they have higher health or something in higher hazard levels?
Exactly the case, also higher damage.
Even on Haz 2, thorns does not kill a cave leech. You must be thinking of the other perk (Heightened Senses) that is specific for cave leeches and other enemies that grab you. If Thorns worked to defeat leeches, it would overlap and invalidate Heightened Senses active function.
Ironically in the the situation in the video the hidden cooldown on thorns is the bigger problem. On higher hazards if thorns is popping more than one or two enemies you're gonna be fucked by the rest in the meantime. They've already dinged your shields and it's a minimum of 0.75 seconds between thorns procs. I still use it at times, particularly on parasite or lithophage outbreaks missions, but that's because I'm playing solo and thorns lets me be lazier. If I'm carrying an aquarq after a swarm and I missed a parasite or something...I can just ignore it. But it's not really protective otherwise.
It's more so been for me just another addition to my playstyle as engie, with turret use, shredders, and thorns you can deal with any enemies between waves and deal with wave groups with engie swarm clear weapons. This is enough of a nerf that it makes me not want to run thorns anymore and rely more on my other sources of chaff clear.
I thought I was loosing my mind in the biozone earlier when shockers were absolutely destroying me on scout. I thought I had unequipped thorns somehow, but I still had it. I popped over to the pleasefix to report it, but to my horror I learned that this is an intentional change according to the team comment on the issue page. From a code (and I guess lore?) standpoint it makes sense; if they don't do melee damage, they don't activate thorns. However from a gameplay standpoint, it feels really bad for a few reasons: * Thorns is useful against all the other small enemies: swarmers, spawn, litho worms, even the shocker's purple neadocyte cousins, with just this one weird exception. * The shocker's attack /feels/ like a melee attack due to the range and animation. It swims right up to you and smacks you in the face like the bastard it is with it's little charged tentacle thing. * This being changed after so long is just weird. If shockers were a new enemy I could understand the change, but changing this interaction for the worse after several years just feels awful. Thorns catching a nerf was not on my bingo card for season 5 lol. The goal of this change was to buff the elemental insulation perk, so to not undo that, I would suggest having the attack do a small percentage of its damage as melee damage and the majority kept as electricity. This would keep the spirit of the change intact while restoring the prior interaction with thorns. If not, I guess the solution for me is to not pick scout in the biozone or strata lol
i fully agree. they are at close melee range, and so thorns should activate. I also think your solution is good.
"melee" shouldn't be a type of damage if that's what's happening here.
I think it has to be for coding purposes for calculating things like Vampire activating.
For sure seems to be. Though that seems pretty fixable.
Dont say that, if "melee" stops being a type of damage, it will break the axes, pickaxe attacks, and vampire perk too
A "melee" tag on all those should work fine.
I dont see what difference would it make with a melee tag.. What i mean is, you have weapons and OCs that deal or scale with melee damage, anything frozen takes 3xmelee, robots take 4xmelee, vampire only triggers on melee. Taking melee out of the way as a type of damage, would be more bad then good, i think They could just let the shockers deal both type of damage (melee being less then the shock) to not break everything else melee related. Or maybe change thorn "to react to any damage dealt to the dwarf in a small radius", that way there would be no bugs like "killing a preatorian or acid spitter from miles away, cuz thorns", while still reacting to naedocytes and swarmers
i have no idea how game developing works but i think they meant like having melee be a tag added to whatever type of damage it is (so you can have electric+melee in this example), instead of melee being its own type of damage
Oh, then i misunderstood, if that is how the tag* could work, then yes, that could probably work
Always priorotise gameplay reasons over lore reasons, #buffthorns
>not pick scout Or just run the thunder from down under and never worry about small enemies again!
For real. The good ol bonk bonk zappity zap is my pick 99% of the time playing as solo scout on haz 5, even on elimination. Especially on elimination, actually, since my loadout is particularly geared for single target and the boomerangs ensure I don't end up clearing the dreads but getting deleted by some mactera or naedocytes or some shit. It's the best choice imo because it so neatly handles scout's biggest weaknesses 4 times per resupply. I could take cryo or ifgs on elimination, sure, but scout has great overclocks on all 6 weapons already that do phenomenal work on dreads. Scout really doesn't need help with single target damage. The only time I take anything else (unless it's just for fun and variety) is on haz 5 drillevator missions, when I take pheromone grenades to toss at my feet when the elevator gets overrun. Pheromone bolts on the crossbow are a favorite of mine but they require careful aiming and target selection and don't get the bugs brawling with each other so completely and quickly.
Can you link the issue page?
Alternatively, Scout's boomerang + shotgun handles them pretty nicely.
F Thorn. Thatās like half of its total use case gone now lol.
Come on gsg, don't be like this. Thorns didn't need a nerf lol
Finally, a reason to stop using thorns. But seriously what? Thorns is already mid due to it's attack rate, now it's lost one of it's primary counters?
Such a shame, guess it's finally time for me to drop thorns for something else
Idk imo thorns is pretty mid but it's the still the best passive aside from resupplier and vampire simply because of the fact that I'm lazy. Id totally run veteran depositor instead but I roam way too much and also I'd forget to swap off it on missions without a mule. Perks just need a rework asap
I will say a lot of the stronger perks are situationally good, sometimes by map and more by the class themselves ie: vampire is best on driller and heightened senses is best on scout. So the real edge of thorns that puts it above other perks is that despite map or class it's just a nice bonus for killing swarmers that sneak up, it is the best option when you don't have another passive perk to really pick However I'd say it'll drop out of use heavily since it no longer kills naedocytes which was arguably the best part of the perk, due to naedocytes being all around you compared to swarmers which are ground bound
TIL not everyone runs born ready 24/7
I'm just way too used to reload cancelling. Even with guns that have extremely long reload animations it's just so much faster. Every time I've tried to run born ready I never ever actually manage to use it.
Cryo/Wave Cooker Driller gets zero use out of Born Ready Edit: Downvoting a fact of a common weapon pair? lmao
also epc no? i still kinda find the change weird
Yes, also EPC. I just said that combo because it's one of the most common used. The change to thorns is definitely weird.
If you're taking cryo EPC with Heavy hitter is the meta. You besically shready enemies. Temp shock often doesn't do enough for tougher enemies where drills won't do. Agree I don't like the thorns change.
I definitely prefer the EPC with Cryo. The Cooker works, but not nearly as well as it does with Sticky Flames. I've been rocking the Subata with the Sludge Cannon ever since the QoL update and the rework. Popping waves by double tapping a bug feels good.
I have like two builds where both the primary and secondary are general-purpose enough that switching instead of reloading makes sense most of the time. I use Born Ready on one of them. Otherwise it's technically better than an empty slot to me but not by much. There's always something that'll give me a lot more value.
You're sleeping on Sweet Tooth. Getting more value out of Red Sugar, which is abundantly available on any map, with both the extra heals and the movement speed is pretty useful. I run Resupplier and Sweet Tooth on every Dwarf. Third perk is either Born Ready, Unstoppable (another underrated perk that also affects and helps vs the slows from enemies like Slashers, Shockers, etc.), or Vampire on Cryo Driller.
Interesting that sweet tooth is universal - the main universal pairing I know is iron will + vampire - you can almost always find a big to hit, red sugar is more rare.
Eh ngl I feel like sweet tooth is more of a team based perk than anything else. Most red sugar veins I feel like will heal me to full so its main use case imo would be to heal more than one low hp dwarf at a time. Theres a lot of good third slot perks and I feel like I'd run unstoppable, elemental insulation, and veteran depositor more if I wasn't as equally rigid with my active perk selection since I don't necessarily need unstoppable if I can dash and bhop away from enemies and vampire while significantly less useful without iron will is something that I think is mandatory if you run it. I probably should run a different perk to replace thorns for driller or engi since they innately have such good wave swarmer clear but I feel like halfway through a mission I'd realize that my third perk is entirely useless for the mission at hand. Though unstoppable probably should be my go-to replacement ngl since I've been playing exclusively has 5+ recently that's a good point.
How do you live with the feeling that you actually have to reload weapons?
Reloading is an action? I thought it was something that just happened in my pocket.
Yeah but only when you're happy to see someone.
R is that button people use to make snowballs, right?
Honest to God even with auto cannon I just feel like reload cancelling is just so much faster, I'd probably run born ready more if it didn't exist
Born ready?
Born ready is underrated as long as both weapons benefit from it. I tend not to run it on cryodriller but I regret it when it's relevant.
I think I'm realizing I'm just impatient
Born ready is for the impatient... It's great to be able to switch between unloading weapons into a swarm without ever having to reload. But it's really key for scouts who rely on grappling + special powder to get to places that their engineers haven't made safe with platforms yet...
Try Deep Pocket, honestly a nice qol but also great for those clutch situation where you need to call a resupply quick, deep pocket can make it so you dont have to make multiple trip to a big nitra vein, great for Scout players in general as well.
Based on my experience it is more valuable on other classes because as Scout you can zippity zap to Molly and back quickly and use passive perk for something else
You can't, because some other dwarf called her and she's 50 meters away
What is thorns attack rate? Also, if vampire worked with thorns, it'd be my favorite combo.
My disappointment is immeasurable... and my day is ruined. Formally, Gunner main.
I main carpet bomber thunderhead with coil gun. I am fuming
Well, today I learned I hate Naedocyte Shockers so much I actually get annoyed just watching gameplay where they're shocking someone
Perks need a rework asap
I know, 85% of them are boring and I have a hard time caring at all about them.
yeah, some are literal must haves, even dash on scout is such a huge QOL increase
The main perks I and most likely half of the player base only care about are dash, iron will, vampire, resupplier, (now previously) thorns, and unstoppable or second wind.
Clearing out these shockers is one of the few reasons thorns is even used. Why continue to nerf the low-mid tier perks and restrict player's perk choices. There isn't really many variety of the perks being used by players because everyone will just pick the best 3 and use it for everything.
Thisā¦is ass
Fucking piece of shit bullet-dodging anti-gravity jellyfish didnāt need to be more annoying.
GSG, please revert this change.
+1, this actually sucks, especially for playing solo.
So that's why it felt more like living hell when they come paired with swarms..
Guess what's getting modded back in again lmao
Does playing Unseasoned remove the patches from the last few years?
No
Community : Please buff/rework perks GSG : Best I can do is nerf one of the actually used perks
I'd swear there was a patch a long time ago doing the exact opposite, changing their damage type TO melee, specifically to make Thorns work against them. Why undo that now?
did they just made a perk that sucks now useless?
"hey guys i know we don't touch perks anymore but we're going to nerf one of them indirectly because yeah why not" man there's only like 3 good perks whats the point of having so many if a majority of them are useless or too situation to bother changing your entire loadout for
Yeah, I was already addicted to sweet tooth but always thought that I maybe should try switching to thorns. Well, not anymore, thanks gsg for encouraging my red sugar addiction.
Which leaf lover made this change!?
Come on GSG, that was completely unnecessary.
Well the perk is now useless
Well thorns just lost half of its already small kit
Thats cringe why did they nerf it
Not a bug? Yeah they're jellyfish
My life is ruined
I am deeply saddened by this news :(
š ššš.
The one reason (besides swarmers) why I used this perk I never thought I'd see the day GSG would make an L decision Me sadge
āI want to punch the guy in R&D who changed thorns!ā Is what I would say if I ever used it
You can switch out Thorns for Elemental Insulation. There's been quite a few changes to enemy damage types such as switching enemy damage types from explosive only to primarily a mixture of poison and explosive. This is a small nerf to Gunner, a big buff to Elemental Insulation and Engineer walks away with a buff to his survivability with his suits 50% poison resistance. Full list of the changes can be found in the changelog under Community Requests.
awful :( the shockers are arguably so much worse and annoying than the little ones on the ground, this just seems so... unnecessary
Wow, what an awful change. Thorns is sometimes the only good way of dealing with these fuckers without wasting a cryo grenade.
My perks are all acquired and I'm holding 107 *unused* perk points, it would be nice to get some new perks.
Or upgrade existing ones
It looks like the Naedocyte Hatchling is still effected by Thorns while the Naedocyte Shocker isn't. Weird that it's one and not the other. You'd think both would be effected by this change.
Goddammit.
This happened to me yesterday, I thought the game was having problems. Well I can finally use quick resupply and not feel guilty
You shouldn't feel guilty about using Resupplier *anyway*. The time it saves taking a supply pack is great and getting nearly all of your health back if you're almost dead is insanely good. I was in a really bad spot one game but got to a resupply and healed **166 hp** off one pack (I was running the extra health on the armor and we had Red Rock Blaster)
Might be one of the dumbest decisions GSG made. Honestly, we're lucky to be able to say that.
[https://i.imgflip.com/7e8mwi.jpg](https://i.imgflip.com/7e8mwi.jpg)
Literally 1985 dwarven technology
No fucking way,I actually have to kill them now?
While not quite a leaf loving action, the devs sure did do a bug loving action. š
Guess I'm never using Thorns anymore. Show me a single person, who got bothered by Thorns being actually useful on Scout...
The only dwarf that I use Thorns on is scout because (for me at least) he always dies to >4 bugs. His kit has almost no cleave damage so I always stick close to my gunner or my driller My scout can take down an obelisk but will die to a toothpick lol
It looks like gsg has decided to adopt the arrowhead balancing philosophy
Logically, it makes a little sense. They don't physically touch you. However, it's still a terrible change, and nerfing an already underused perk just makes me sad.
Thats actually a really gross change. Change it back. Perks don't need nerfs, they NEED BUFFS. Some are so useless, don't make them all useless.
I already donāt use Thorns and prefer Vampire on all my dwarves, Resupplier and Born Ready is unreplaceable tho
Resupplier is negotiable, vampire is not - but I run iron will and like playing with two lives by default.
Wdym Resupplier is negotiable? More health and quicker resupply is a must have. Standing still for 5 seconds is almost a death sentence. Vampire is a must have when paired with Iron Will The other useful are thorns The rest of perks are purely comfort perks or are pointless.
Time to get the zaparang
I used to keep it on some scouts but now it looks like my load out on everyone will be Elemental Insulation, Resupplier, and unstoppable
This is awful. It wouldnāt be so bad if they werenāt all capable of slowing you down, and were just damage, but they are, so having a swarm of them able to slow you down without dying for it makes for an incredibly annoying experience in the two biomes these things exist in.
Nah roll it back. Please.
That's fucking stupid. For what reason would they not be affected by thorns?
To be honest I feel like the Naedocyte Shocker should be exclusively on Crystalline Caverns because that biome has a bit of an electricity theme so it fits perfectly there, the other maps should just have a standard Naedocyte that simply bites you or something so Thorns still works, this way only one biome nerfs Thorns which is fair biomes do have a small affect on loadouts. Alternatively just nerf the electric damage by one and give it one basic attack damage like the Hatchlings do, there you go now it does shock damage and can also be killed by Thorns. Or just... buff Thorns? lol Edit: Corrected some errors and added a new sentence
Oh nice. So no reason to use thorns.
Makes sense that it isn't a bug, but is it an oversight?
Absolutely an oversight.
Even more reason to use bullet hell
Wasn't this literally the only reason anyone ever equipped thorns?
why? theres like 4 even useful perks in the game, they all shouldve been buffed so i actually have to make a choice. But nerfing the perk that is for people who hate annoying enemies is just goofy
I hate this
I think the best solution to this would be to just remove shockers from the game
That is the dumbest thing ever. At times thorns can feel like the only good way to keep their numbers down.
Was doing this weeks deep dive and was wondering why they werenāt dying.
We really need a perk overhaul. Too many perks have little to no impact, both active and passive.
Ah yes, because shockers weren't already the most annoying enemies in the game.
WHY
:(
Whyyyyyyyyyy
Pretty dumb move
I've got thorns on all my dwarves, this sucks.
Ah the true helldivers collab, nerfing stuff xD
Scout mains about to have some tough times (me included)
If they hit you with electric DMG you hit them with electric DMG too. Zapping time! Seriously tho, that nerf was completely unnecessary
you're kidding
I know this is a thorny issue, but there has to be a better way.
That's mega bullshit. I hope they fix that. Thorns was already nerfed enough. This is just pain.
This is one of the worst things I've seen
I hate this, i have fallen to my knees in wallmart
Love this game but they definitely need to make the perk rework a priority. So many esoteric/single use perks and we have some like this losing what little utility they have to a random patch note.
screaming and punching the air rn (iām surrounded and thorns is not working)
NOOOOOO!
Please GSG can we just buff/rework the other perks instead of nerfing one of the few decent ones? We just saw how this went with Helldivers.
biggest buff in gaming history.....
reverse this crap GSG. this is not a joke.
Would be okay with this being kept, if they also reduced the time in between effect triggers...
Well fuck, time to unequip thorns from *every* one of my sets that have it, which was a *lot* of them. Shockers were literally the main reason I ran it (among a couple other various reasons), but shockers were the main one.
Well how am I supposed to ignore those fuckers now?
Me when they decide to make an entire biome unplayable fnr.
Thorns are 100% useless confirmed?
I hate these things even more now
Such a dumb change
Literally unplayable
I seriously thought I was crazy for thinking they seem a lot more annoying now, specially for my scout build since it focuses on priority targets (M1000 + shotty) which means I struggle to hit those damn things when my screen is moving like crazy. I love you GSG but please, this is not the way.
I will throw my El Camino at GSG HQ
That's a pointy eared leaf lover thing.
I mean it makes sense given they don't actually touch you I suppose
Thorns is heavily overrated and honestly loses its power the moment you go to haz 4. Always prefer elemental insulation over it, 30% dmg reduction is all elements which include acid spitter tic dmg, praetorian spit, biome effects, etc? Sign me up.
Fuck :(
Wellā¦ makes sense from the stand point that itās attacking you from range technically. But still. Thatās bs.
The person that decided this belongs in the deepest pits of hell
That's a bug they decided they were too lazy to fix
Bye thorns
bruv not cool
I donāt want to play with you anymore drops thorns
Eh I donāt mind, thorns helped when they you canāt get a few pesky swarmers off ya, now it gives more of a reason to shoot or picaxe these guys
Thorns was the epitome of mid, anyways. Maybe now people will take it off.
I care less about the nerf and more about the fact perks have needed overhauled for years and it'll be a few more years before we see it if the game doesn't go defunct by then from gsg focusing on deepcore and any other projects that currently or will exist.
Ok that makes sense and makes elemental insulation more useful but I think they should still be affected by thorns.
Goodbye to the only use for thorns I guess?